Friday, April 8, 2011

Quebec's English Schools- When Facts Don't Matter

"The steady reduction of the anglophone population in Quebec is taking its toll on schools in Montreal, with councillors from the English Montreal School Board debating the fates of 20 schools.......... Under the initial proposal, more than 20 schools and their students could be affected by mergers or closures....The crux of that report was a recommendation to close nine schools..... Another 11 schools would either be moved or merged.   CTV Montreal

It seems like an annual event, the painful debate in the various English school commissions in Quebec as to which schools to close in the face of declining enrolment.
What makes the annual cull so sad is the continued drum-beating in the French language militant community that English is somehow taking over.

Incidentally, the meetings discussing the school closings and mergers, at the English Montreal School Board took place at the same time the Quebec government was announcing 300 million dollars to build 20 new French schools! LINK

So what gives? 

First of all, I don't agree that the Anglophone population is declining as stated in the CTV news report quoted above. Recent numbers from the last census actually show that the community has grown slightly.
What is true, however, is that the number of students attending English primary and high school has dropped precipitously.
Now if as I stated, the English community's numbers in Quebec are remaining relatively steady, how is it that we are seeing our elementary and high schools closing and merging at an astounding rate?

The first reason that is happening is because anglophones are choosing to send their children to French schools in greater and greater numbers.
The second reason for the decline is of course, Bill 101 and its prohibition on new Quebeckers (replacement citizens) attending English school.

Both English and French Quebeckers don't produce enough children to keep our population steady. Each family needs to produce about 2.1 offspring to maintain equilibrium, but that doesn't happen.
In Quebec, just like the rest of the western world, we are well below that threshold, somewhere between 1.4 and 1.6 children per family, about thirty percent too few.

So that is why we allow for immigration. Some argue that we let in too many newcomers, but that is another argument for another day, however, there is no denying that we do need immigrants to keep our population stable.

Now according to Bill 101, almost all of these immigrants must go to a French school. There is an exception for Canadians educated in English but this represents the tiniest of percentage. The vast majority must attend French school, Anglophones included if they arrived from anywhere but Canada, and even if they speak nothing but English. 

If our English community is naturally shrinking, it's fair to ask how can we maintain our numbers if all the newcomers are forced into French schools? 
It would seem logical that in order to maintain linguistic balance, some immigrants should be streamed into English schools.
But that of course, is not the case. Not according to Bill 101!

And so it's natural that our English schools continue to close in a slow and inexorable decline.

But curiously, our community does persevere and we do maintain our numbers.

How?
It seems that many immigrants choose to associate and assimilate to the English community despite being forced into French schools. Apparently, the heart wants what the heart wants.

It is this linguistic 'transfer,' of immigrants who although forced to attend primary and high school in French, choose to learn English on their own and associate and settle in with the Anglophone community.

It is this 'transfer' that so infuriates French language militants who see this go-around as dangerous and unfair.

In a furious effort to diminish this 'transfer' effect, language militants are now demanding that Bill 101 be applied to cegeps (colleges) and that those ineligible under Bill 101 to attend English school be forced to attend college in French as well.

It's a silly and futile response, meant to somehow stave off linguistic transfers to English. I've written about this before,where I argued that English cegeps aren't responsible in any way for the anglicization of non native anglos who attend the school.

This week a detailed study on the subject, commissioned by the Conseil supérieur de la langue française was released that came to that very same conclusion. Download the PDF{FR}

The 40 page study is very detailed and well prepared and as can be expected, its conclusions have rankled French language militants who have reacted rather bizarrely, accusing the commission, which is charged with advising the government on French language policy, as being a 'sellout,' lacking independence or alternately just plain wrong in its findings.

Pierre Curzi and Mario Beaulieu were beside themselves, stunned at the 'betrayal', that the Commission concluded that the status quo should remain in effect and students should have a choice vis-a-vis the language of instruction.

The report has been cast aside by those in the PQ who wish to hold onto the fiction that English cegeps anglicize students. The party has re-iterated that it wants to go ahead with legislation to apply Bill 101 to cegep, even in the face of the damaging report. 
The facts don't seem to matter not when it comes to English!

Whether students go to English cegep or not, people will continue to learn English, and assimilate to the anglophone community.  The process of transformation and the commitment to English commencing years and years before cegep.

And so English primary and high schools (perhaps cegeps in the future) will close, yet English will survive.
It's a nightmare scenario for those who believed and hoped Bill 101 would have the effect to cripple or eliminate the English community over time.

For these people, it's annoying that the plan didn't work and frustrating that there is no other 'cure' available to take care of the 'English' problem.
Demanding that Bill 101 be applied to cegeps in the face of such compelling evidence that it won't change anything, smells of desperation.

The real problem is that there is no problem.

The English community is stable and no threat to French. The anglicization of Montreal is a myth, dreamed up by separatists looking for a new scare issue that can justify sovereignty.

63 comments:

  1. The French / English schooling segregation is so outdated. In a perfect world all schools in Quebec would be bilingual. The English school board provides students with various immersion programs ... French schools? They don't want to pollute the "pure laine" children with English.

    ReplyDelete
  2. "For these people, it's annoying that the plan didn't work and frustrating that there is no other 'cure' available to take care of the 'English' problem."
    --

    And what happens when all bureaucratic solutions have failed, and the English "problem" (both the people and their language) are still very much present in the Banana Republic de Quebec? Well, the next step of course...physical violence and killing.

    Yes, the final solution(tm) to the English problem. Just like another nation that had a problem and needed to come up with a solution to rid itself of an impure culture. Note the bastard that compared Anglophones to bedbugs, much like the Germans compared Jews to roaches.

    Too bad the federal government doesn't have the common sense to send in the army, round up the leaders of these hate groups, including the PQ, BQ and PLQ and put them in jail to rot, where they belong (or more realistically, take away their Canadian citizenship for treason and hate crimes and send them off to some oppressive country like Haiti, Iran or North Korea).

    ReplyDelete
  3. You know it would be good to do a little roll call for the sheer amounts of English Schools that closed down. I remember in Park Extension at least english 3 elementary schools and 1 high School. 2 PSBGM elementary (Barclay and Sinclair Laird)around 1988, catholic Elementary(Mother Seton)1986 and Catholic High School(William Hingston) 1984. Only one still left is Sinclair Laird, which I was lucky enough to attend.

    Other schools I remember closing were Bedford Elementary in Cote Des Neiges in late 80s.
    Outremont High School around 1992, Algonquin Elementary in TMR (around 1984), Town of Mount Royal High School TMR(around 1984), Northmount Highschool Cote des Neighes (around 1985), Westhill Highschool NDG (1992).

    I wish there was an archive of all the english schools closed in Quebec. How about MR Editor? A section on all the English Schools closed that we can remember?


    I recall many other schools closing down throughout my elementary and High school years from 1984 to 1995, but can't remember them all accurately.

    After the merger of the English schools under linguistic school boards (which would helped make the situation less severe if it was started right after bill 101) there was quite a bit of stability until 2004, until the PQ scum passed bill 103.

    ReplyDelete
  4. "...compared Anglophones to bedbugs..."

    Que pense-tu de ça,trou du cul? (prise 2)

    -bigot
    -zealot
    -Seppie
    -nazis
    -douche bags
    -racist
    -fascist
    -antisemit
    -paranoiac
    -xénophobe
    -segregationist
    -ethnics cleansing
    -extremist
    -terrorist,etc.

    ReplyDelete
  5. What are the actual chances of Bill 101 being extended to cegeps? Curiously enough, I've heard a lot of my older English friends with teenage kids "happy" about this possible extension. As of now, their kids have to fight to get into English Cegeps, so an anglophone kid with an average of 75% can't even get in. They tell me English Cegeps are overpopulated.

    If that extension does go through, what's next? Making McGill, Concordia and Bishop's french?

    ReplyDelete
  6. People will by-pass the official ideology and attempt to learn English by other ways. Look at the ads on some french TV shows advertising English courses. Walk around some parts of Montreal and you'll see paper ads taped on lamp posts offering English courses. The market understands and thus serves the demand. You cannot stop people from learning more, and from learning what they want. That is what a free society should be about. Something that the people who make the laws in Quebec do not seem to understand.

    ReplyDelete
  7. I'd like to ask Mr.Ignatieff how he’s planning to deliver on all his promises. It seems that wherever he goes, he wholeheartedly promises something, without getting into the financing details, of course.

    When he promised a new bridge yesterday, I almost fell of the chair.

    ReplyDelete
  8. @ Beaudoin the Brainless

    Ah, here's that daily nazi reference. This site is so predictable.

    @ Phil

    "French schools? They don't want to pollute the "pure laine" children with English."

    There are mandatory ESL courses from 1st grade to CEGEP, for a total of 13 years. Don't let facts get in the way of a weak argument.

    But don't worry, the french CEGEP thing will never pass. There is little public support for it and the PQ leadership is just humoring it's radical wing.

    ReplyDelete
  9. @adski said...
    "I'd like to ask Mr.Ignatieff how he’s planning to deliver on all his promises"

    I'd like to know that too. Also would like
    Harper to explain why he's devalued the dollar
    by over 38% in the last 17 months measured in
    real assets (ie. precious metals).

    Can't think of anything intelligent Jack and
    Gilles could add to a discussion.

    DD

    ReplyDelete
  10. @ Press 9 at 7:28 AM,

    Those descriptions of some French language zealots are accurate, asshole.

    None of the Anglos commenting on this blog have referred to Quebecois as vermin, and advocated their extermination, as you have done with Anglos. The term "Nazi" most certainly applies to you in particular.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Yes indeed, Canada’s dirty little secret that all politicians in Kebec and Ottawa refuse to deal with. Truly pathetic, an outright embarrassment.

    1) French is the only official language in Quebec violating Canada's constitution. Violating Canada's Language laws.

    2) In 1993, the United Nations Human Rights Committee ruled that Quebec's sign laws broke an international covenant on civil and political rights. "A State may choose one or more official languages," the committee wrote, "but it may not exclude outside the spheres of public life, the freedom to express oneself in a certain language." Quebec is violating the agreements and policies of the U.N. by creating racist language laws that make English essentially illegal.

    3) Quebec forces families to send their children to French school's unless the parents have attended English schooling. One of the most blatantly racist policies that is akin to racial segregation. Also a human rights violation under the Charter of Rights and the United Nations ICCPR agreement.

    4) Quebec's, "Right to protect the French language" is in reality the right to ban the English language without cause. They have a right to protect French yet the English have no right to protect the English language in Quebec. Another violation of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and another double-standard.

    5) In Quebec companies must acquire a certificate of francization ???, which could only be obtained when a company showed it could function in French and address its employees in French. Imagine if the rest of Canada forced Quebec companies outside of Quebec to acquire tickets showing that they are capable of operating in solely English before they were allowed to open! Racism at it's most devious. Another double-standard.

    6) The U.N. has called repeatedly for Canada to strike down Quebec Language Laws which are enforcing racist and bigoted policies designed to eliminate the English language in Quebec. In fact Rene Levesque admitted on several occasions that his goal was to drive the English language from Quebec...

    I wonder if people really know what’s been going on in Quebec for the last several decades. Quebec = 5 decades wiping out the English language and culture with racist,anti-English language laws such as bill 22, 178, 101…Just a fact. Racism, bigotry, ethnic language cleansing and human rights violations alive and well in kebec.Kebec where the English, Scottish, Irish, United Empire Loyalists…built the province since 1763, where the Union Jack and Red Ensign flew until 1950. Again just the facts. This lie, this revisionist BS that Quebec is a French province and that Canada is bilingual is just that, an outright lie. 1 million people have been forced out of the province of Kebec (original native spelling) due to this type of hatred/lie/spin.

    Liberal, Tory same old story.

    Solution? Well there is only one. A new party and a new leader. People from the private sector with no relationship to any of the mainstream parties. One that details before an election what they stand for. We need a party with specific, fiscally conservative policies. One that defines essential and non-essential (expensive waste) services in a platform before elections. One that will cut waste, reduce taxes, eliminate departments, downsize government...repeal bad laws (the charter, bilingualism, multiculturalism...Bill 101...), one that will tell unions to rot in hell. No more lies, propaganda, and spin, what we now get on a daily basis. Canada needs a party that stands for integrity, honesty, transparency and common sense. One that is proud of our real BNA history.

    ReplyDelete
  12. "There are mandatory ESL courses from 1st grade to CEGEP"

    As an ESL teacher in the system I can tell you they're complete bullshit and ineffective. Watching movies with French subtitles is not English class. Really, you don't even need me to tell you that. Just talk to a few SQ cops and see how many of them can stitch together a coherent English sentence.

    You will find more English speakers in, let's say Sweden, than you will in Quebec. Especially if you leave the bread basket and head out to more rural areas. Although, from what I understand from friends who come from France and Belgium, it's not really French that we're speaking here either. I'm not an expert on the language, but the notion of the Quebecois as a cultural joke seems to extend far beyond our borders. Now to see if that joke of our federal government will ever grow a pair and put out the trash.

    ReplyDelete
  13. "Ah, here's that daily nazi reference. This site is so predictable."


    Then maybe you can find another parallel from recent history that relates to Quebec. How about the restrictions on the Kurdish language in Turkey? Maybe Apartheid and its marginalization of an entire community?
    The most predictable condition of all in this country is its infestation with cowardly apologists.

    ReplyDelete
  14. "Solution? Well there is only one."

    Solution = Revolution

    Stop obeying the legislation, it's unconstitutional and immoral in every sense. If you're not willing to defend your own rights, don't expect a ballot whore to do it for you.

    ReplyDelete
  15. @ Anonymous 11:58

    "As an ESL teacher in the system I can tell you they're complete bullshit and ineffective. Watching movies with French subtitles is not English class."

    It's better than nothing, and serves it's purpose to give basic proficiency in english to the general public. I'd certainly like to compare "basic" knowledge of english in Québec highgraduates vs basic knowledge of french in the RoC.

    "Just talk to a few SQ cops and see how many of them can stitch together a coherent English sentence."

    Those that need english for their jobs or their personal pleasure learn it better on their own, and those who don't... don't. If you don't want french "rammed down your throat", we don't want english rammed down ours.

    "You will find more English speakers in, let's say Sweden, than you will in Quebec. Especially if you leave the bread basket and head out to more rural areas."

    Prove it. From wikipedia, ESL is taught from the 3rd to 9th grades. Still less than Québec.

    "Although, from what I understand from friends who come from France and Belgium, it's not really French that we're speaking here either. I'm not an expert on the language, but the notion of the Quebecois as a cultural joke seems to extend far beyond our borders."

    I assume you speaketh the Queen's english then, dear sir? Shall join together and eradicate that horrible drivel that Canadians, Americans, Australians and the Irish speak. LOL, the hyprocrisy is astounding. And I know from personal experience that the French and Belgians LOVE our accent. Actually, the French thought I was from Belgium myself.

    "Now to see if that joke of our federal government will ever grow a pair and put out the trash."

    The notion of yourself as a teacher to francophones repulses. And god forbid that a francophone said the same about anglophones, he'd make No Dogs's front page!

    ReplyDelete
  16. @ Anonymous 12:17

    "Then maybe you can find another parallel from recent history that relates to Quebec."

    The fact that Québec anglophones apparently compare their situation as a linguistic "minority" to that of millions of murdered jews is both sad and pathetic. Hey editor, how about using that for your next post? Hehehe.

    ReplyDelete
  17. To Anon@1:19
    "And I know from personal experience that the French and Belgians LOVE our accent.Actually, the French thought I was from Belgium myself.""

    Hmmmm..... not so sure.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAUAoBZVId0&feature=related


    Sorry, nobody from France could ever possibly confuse a Quebecois accent from Belgium. Ever!

    ReplyDelete
  18. @ Editor

    Have YOU spent time in France and Belgium? They're pretty fond of us actually.

    ReplyDelete
  19. "The notion of yourself as a teacher to francophones repulses"

    Trust me, it repulses me more.

    "Those that need english for their jobs "

    You would assume that service and protection should extend to both linguistic spheres in the province. English and French proficiency should be a requirement for ALL public sector positions in the province.

    "I'd certainly like to compare "basic" knowledge of english in Québec highgraduates vs basic knowledge of french in the RoC."

    Who cares? They already speak a language that will serve them anywhere in the world, anything else is a bonus. Should they choose to attend publicly funded French school in any province they will not be rejected on a basis of ethnicity as is done in this shithole.

    "From wikipedia, ESL is taught from the 3rd to 9th grades. Still less than Québec."

    It's the quality of the education, not the duration.

    "the hyprocrisy is astounding."

    I agree. Hillbillies in jacked up pick-up trucks plagued by xenophobia, are still hillbillies whether in Alabama or Quebec. So much for distinct culture.

    "The fact that Québec anglophones apparently compare their situation as a linguistic "minority" to that of millions of murdered jews is both sad and pathetic."

    Jews were singled out for years before the holocaust. Their synagogues and store fronts were defaced a decade before the concentration camps came into full use - in the years when Groulx and other fascist pigs in this province supported the German model for ethnic purity. Which brings me back to my earlier point, it's the quality of the education, not the duration.

    "It's better than nothing"

    The motto of all standards in Quebec. You make me want to puke.

    ReplyDelete
  20. "Sorry, nobody from France could ever possibly confuse a Quebecois accent from Belgium. Ever"

    Comme il est aussi facile de reconnaître un canadian dans un endroit public aux É.U.
    Un ami Américain m'a dit que les canadians ont un drôle de look,une drôle de tête et un accent de hillbillies.

    ReplyDelete
  21. @ Anonymous 1:59

    "English and French proficiency should be a requirement for ALL public sector positions in the province."

    And for other provinces? Oh gosh no, I forgot they already speak The Good Language. Anything else would be uncivilized. Bilingualism in Qc, de facto unilingualism everywhere else. Yay!

    "Who cares? They already speak a language that will serve them anywhere in the world, anything else is a bonus."

    There is that superior attitude again. How happy you must be to be a member of the superior arya... I mean anglo race.

    "It's the quality of the education, not the duration."

    Since you're the one providing this education, I find your remarks disturbing.

    "I agree. Hillbillies in jacked up pick-up trucks plagued by xenophobia, are still hillbillies whether in Alabama or Quebec. So much for distinct culture."

    I meant YOU, actually. You wouldn't happen to be speaking (and apparently teaching, god help us all) english in one of those degenerate non-british accents, would you? Oh but THAT's not the same thing, english accents are good and french accents are bad...

    "Jews were singled out for years before the holocaust. Their synagogues and store fronts were defaced a decade before the concentration camps came into full use - in the years when Groulx and other fascist pigs in this province supported the German model for ethnic purity."

    And when Groulx was here, our elected officials in Ottawa denied entry to Jewish refugees from Germany. Something about ethnic purity... hmmm... Do know what selective blindness is? But apparently you seem determined to defend your analogy. I find that interesting.

    "It's better than nothing"

    Yeah, it is. Basic proficiency in english for everybody, and those that want/need more have countless choices for improvement. That's why it's called English SECOND Language.

    ReplyDelete
  22. http://pierrecurzi.org/nouvelle/le-parti-quebecois-prend-acte-de-l%E2%80%99avis-mais-maintient-sa-position

    11:52 – “Pourqoui des gens qui arrivent d’auilleurs, de partout, qui soit francophone ou allophone, pourquoi ils choissent d’aller s’integerer dans une culture anglophone? Puis, les facteurs, on les connait, c’est d’abord le logement, deuxiement c’est le travail, et troisiememnt c’est la langue d’enseignement.”

    What about a simpler reason, one that accounts for the 3 above? How about the fact that people simply WANT to use English, for whatever reasons, and that’s why they live, work and study in English?

    Curzi is getting the cause and effect wrong. The 3 things mentions are not the cause of Anglicization of Montreal, the cause of Anglicization is rooted in the desire. The chain goes like this: people use the language they want, they take it to work/home/school, and then the environment they inhabit becomes English. So in effect, it’s not home/work/school that cause the Anglicization, it’s the want. You can pass laws and enforce them in every workplace, school, and even home, but that will not remove the want. Curzi, like all social engineers, just doesn’t get it.

    We can discuss why people want to use English in Montreal (which is part of an officially French Quebec), and there are many valid reasons for that. But people like Curzi are immune to these reasons.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Quebec and France have always had ambiguous relations ... more hate than love if you ask me.

    @ Adski: ESL courses don't make you bilingual ...

    ReplyDelete
  24. The closure of English-bilingual schools in Quebec can be attributed to several factors, Bill 101, population shifts (especially westward), declining birthrates, yada yada yada... Probably the best thing to do to stem the tide of closures would be to get rid of this silly blood line provision in Bill 101 that obligates our Francophone friends to send their kids to French schools EVEN if they reside next to a perfectly good English-bilingual PUBLIC school (that they help pay for). That provision of Bill 101 is bullshit and seriously needs a 21st century rewrite. Now, from the public flagellation that Maxime Bernier got recently for even questioning Bill 101 on a Halifax radio station in a passing comment, it's quite clear that this current crop of politicos in Quebec aren't ready yet to make the necessary adjustments to this law. What we need is a Francophone leader who is confident and has balls to step up and to really start questioning where we as a society want to go with these laws in this day and age. We're not competing only against Toronto anymore, we're competing against Taipei and the emerging markets in Asia. People don't seem to realize that they have already caught up with us and soon we'll be eating their dust, no one here seems to recognize that. I've been going to India since the 1970's and I'm telling you, that country has metamorphosed into a powerhouse in the last generation.
    I'm convinced we can come out ahead if we as a society play our cards right. There are Quebecers, both Anglo and Franco that walk among the best in the World in the fields of business, culture and entertainment. Think Cohen, Dion, Laliberte, Richler, etc. Anglo Montreal even has a few Nobel prizes under it's belt in science and literature. Students today need all the advantages they can get and keeping Francophones out of Public English-bilingual schools is just plain nonsense. Parents should be the ones to decide where to send their kids not some snot nosed Quebec bureaucrat who doesn't give a rat's ass about the future success of your child. Closing down schools is a travesty and we need our Francophone neighbours (the silent majority) to step up and speak out.

    ReplyDelete
  25. "The fact that Québec anglophones apparently compare their situation as a linguistic "minority" to that of millions of murdered jews is both sad and pathetic. Hey editor, how about using that for your next post? Hehehe. "

    --
    I invite you to read a book called "Ten Green Bottles"
    http://www.amazon.com/Ten-Green-Bottles-War-torn-Shanghai/product-reviews/0312330545

    I recently did, and the parallels between Jews living in Vienna during the 1920's and 1930's are frighteningly similar to Quebec of present day. I'm not trying to throw things out of proportion with this comparison, I was really shocked when reading it. All I kept thinking is, wow...this is QUEBEC.

    No, we haven't gotten to the point of violence and killing. Not yet. That is why I said the parallel only extends to the 20's and 30's. Of course the logical conclusion is, if like in Poland no one denounces these acts and puts a stop to them, it WILL escalate to the point of violence and yes, killing.

    History has a tenancy to repeat itself if mistakes of the past are not correct.

    The Quebecois are ripe for exploitation. Poor economic situation. Taught (brainwashed) from childhood that they are a superior culture and race. The government blaming the the Anglophones (like the Jews) for all the miseries and struggles of the Quebecois, and especially, the very people blocking their dream of becoming an independent nation (money and the ethnic vote anyone?).

    Quebec is a bomb waiting to go off, and trust me, it is only a matter of time that it will. Comparisons with Nazi German is very valid, my friend, just read that book and you be the judge.

    ReplyDelete
  26. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvdjOC77vk0

    Example of the "beauty" of Quebecois culture and language.

    ReplyDelete
  27. "And for other provinces? Oh gosh no, I forgot they already speak The Good Language. Anything else would be uncivilized. Bilingualism in Qc, de facto unilingualism everywhere else. Yay!"

    Get over yourself. You're just another minority in this country, not a dispossessed indigenous culture. The rest of us preserve our languages and cultures without oppressing others, maybe you should learn to do the same. French North America went the way of the dodo bird a long time ago. It's a shame you didn't get the memo yet.

    "And when Groulx was here, our elected officials in Ottawa denied entry to Jewish refugees from Germany. Something about ethnic purity... hmmm... Do know what selective blindness is? But apparently you seem determined to defend your analogy. I find that interesting."

    It's a time frame matter. The rest of us moved on but even though Groulx is long dead and roasting with his other ethnically pure cronies, Quebekkk still functions on the politics of hate, intolerance and exclusion.

    "There is that superior attitude again. How happy you must be to be a member of the superior arya... I mean anglo race."

    Actually, I'm not English. I know it's hard for you to imagine that there are millions of us here that are not white Catholics or Protestants, because after all you've spent the past thirty years marginalizing us, but we consider ourselves Canadian, not Quebecois, and not that we would ever be accepted as such, and we really don't give a shit for your oppressive sense of entitlement.

    ReplyDelete
  28. "...but we consider ourselves Canadian, not Quebecois..."

    Vous avez deja visité l'ontario?C'est une très belle province canadienne et ils sont tous anglos.
    Vous devriez aller les visiter un de ces jours,ils vous acceuilleraient a bras ouverts j'en suis sure.Ils acceptent tous le monde car ils sont personnes.

    ReplyDelete
  29. @messysauga,

    Actually I want to bring Ontario to the montreal area. So instead of visiting I want to import it and maybe make Montreal a future part of the province of Ontario. I have one big complaint about Ontario though. The pay too much into equalization that the Quebecois seppie complex use to keep their parasite programs running.

    Would love to bring all the English speaking welfare recipients into Quebec. Would love to see the parasites get parasited.

    ReplyDelete
  30. "Vous avez deja visité l'ontario?C'est une très belle province canadienne et ils sont tous anglos.
    Vous devriez aller les visiter un de ces jours,ils vous acceuilleraient a bras ouverts j'en suis sure.Ils acceptent tous le monde car ils sont personnes."

    Funny you should mention that. There's a similar idea going around lately. The key difference being a referendum for Montreal and the surrounding areas to become part of Ontario. Less taxation, cheaper vehicle registrations, better roads and no language police. What's there not to like?

    ReplyDelete
  31. "Beaudoin is Brainless" makes a good point. Some of the more fanatical Nationalistas get their noses out of joint over comparisons of Quebec with Nazi Germany. The Nazis did not leap onto the political stage in their "kill all the Jews" form complete with prefab concentration camps and gas chambers. There's no way the average German would have gone for it. It was a far more gradual, insidious transition from an elected party of German nationalists to a dictatorship run by a cabal of monsters. The language policies in Quebec are the first steps restricting the rights and freedoms of a specific minority. The problem is that they don't stop there. Already they're beyond anything that Rene Levesque probably imagined. Everytime the grip is tightened and the majority just sits there and watches, the fanatics like Curzi get bolder, and want to squeeze harder (his musing about restricting the voting rights of some groups would have made Hitler proud). If there is never a point where the average Quebecer sits up and says "Wait a minute, this is getting to be unreasonable.", then you are heading for a very dark place. Nobody who makes the comparison is saying that the Quebec language nuts are at the same stage as the Nazis were just prior to WW II, but there is a creepy similarity to the way they were when they came to power.

    ReplyDelete
  32. "Actually I want to bring Ontario to the montreal area. So instead of visiting I want to import it and maybe make Montreal a future part of the province of Ontario."

    Je ne sais pas ce que les anglouilles fument mais ça me semble très fort et extrèmement dommageable pour les neuronnes.

    S'il vous plait,évitez de conduire quand vous consommez ce type d'hallucinogène.

    ReplyDelete
  33. "There's a similar idea going around lately..."

    Beaucoup de projets et d'idées circulent chez les anglouilles depuis 400 ans au Québec et ils ne sont jamais parvenus a nous exterminer.Vous êtes incapables de mettre sur pied un parti ou un groupe capable de vous représenter sans qu'on les sortent a grands coups de pied au cul.

    Vous êtes vraiment des minables même si vous représentez un million dans la région de Montréal,vous n'êtes même pas foutus de réunir vos ethnies autour d'une idée commune car vous n'avez rien en commun sauf le globish.
    Ce que nous Québécois,faisons partout dans le ROC car ce qui nous réunis est plus qu'une langue,c'est une culture.

    Bang!

    ReplyDelete
  34. "...and freedoms of a specific minority..."

    Une minorité de 350.000.000!

    C'est nous la minorité stupide gringo!

    ReplyDelete
  35. "C'est nous la minorité stupide gringo!"

    The only gringos I see in this province support 101, hate immigrants, are largely unilingual francophones, and suffer from a terminal case of penis envy when they try to relate to their colonial competitors, the English.

    ReplyDelete
  36. "plus qu'une langue,c'est une culture"

    Really? What happened to Vermont then? Same people, same culture. You should be grateful the British allowed you to retain any culture that you do have.

    "a nous exterminer"

    If that was their intent, you would already be a footnote. Where do you access all this bullshit information?
    Whether Quebec becomes independent or not, unilingual or bilingual, you will always be politically, economically, and culturally dominated by your anglophone neighbours. They'll sneeze, you'll catch the cold. They'll say jump and you will always say how high. Now be quiet and be grateful for your English and Ethnic owned and operated call centre and retail employment opportunities even if they're amongst the lowest paying jobs in Canada. It's the only way to attract companies to a sub par labour market and a cesspool of bigots and potholes.

    ReplyDelete
  37. “We're not competing only against Toronto anymore, we're competing against Taipei and the emerging markets in Asia.”

    My company has intensified its Asia operations in the last couple of years. Most of our sales are there now, with China being the biggest market. We have also opened up new offices in China, Hong Kong, Japan, and Malaysia. We have our people there, but we hire a lot of locals as well.

    Let me tell you one thing about that market – the language of operations is exclusively English, and our Asian employees are all fluent in it. In fact, we haven’t had a single applicant who didn’t have the mastery of English. As far as the clients are concerned, we try to accommodate them in their respective languages, but they are also very open to being served in English as well (our clients are pharma companies and medical professionals)

    Notice that local languages are not disappearing (only Quebecois French seems to be in "danger"), and some of them are even flourishing. However, business and cross-cultural relations are carried out exclusively in English, and nobody contests it. By now, it’s like a law of nature.

    Considering this and many other factors (like for example the fact that the Chinese govt has implemented a massive ESL campaign), we can only conclude that keeping Bill 101 on the books in this day and age is almost criminal, and that Quebec elite is an accessory.

    “You cannot stop people from learning more, and from learning what they want”

    This is nothing new. Many regimes have tried and failed before, even the regimes more powerful than the province of Quebec. I remember my father in the 1980s reading Animal Farm printed on a stack of cue cards. The government banned Animal Farm and several other books, but everyone could get his hands on an illegal copy, if one really wanted to.

    The question whether the PQ will succeed in its objectives, or not, is irrelevant. They haven’t succeeded in 35 years (save for a few minor “victories”) and it’s obvious that they won’t succeed in the future – their objectives are simply unrealistic. Bill 101 ten times harsher than it is now will not be able to reverse certain processes that are taking place. On the contrary, it could potentially create a backlash, and maybe even bring down the corrupt Quebec regime (which consists of both the PQ and PLQ alternating in power).

    What’s relevant is that the Quebec elite (with the help of quite a few “useful idiots”) is desperately trying to protect the privileges of the Quebec political class without any concern for the common good. That it is failing in realizing its major objectives is much less relevant if you consider the harm that it is causing in the process and the fact that it remains undeterred in its “mission” regardless of the consequences.

    ReplyDelete
  38. "S'il vous plait,évitez de conduire quand vous consommez ce type d'hallucinogène."

    Someone should have said that to Rene Lesvesque

    ReplyDelete
  39. "We have also opened up new offices in China, Hong Kong, Japan, and Malaysia. We have our people there, but we hire a lot of locals as well."

    Les affaires vont plutôt bien,de quoi vous plaignez-vous donc?

    ReplyDelete
  40. "ce qui nous réunis est plus qu'une langue,c'est une culture".
    First of all, it's "réuniT" (third singular person). So, study the real grammar before writing gibberish (probably it reflects the way you think or you don't think...).
    Second, there is not a "langue", but an horrific, incomprehensible dialect called joual, spoken by uneducated individuals.
    Third, there is not a "culture", but a huge, black hole made of bad attitudes, lack of general knowledge and a high drop-out rate.
    Fourth, you never put a comma between subject and verb (Ce que nous Québécois faisons...no comma, dead brain!)
    Five, ce que vous Québécois faites est de détruire la langue française...Étudiez-la et puis on ira en reparler.

    WESTALLOPHONE++

    ReplyDelete
  41. À anonyme:''You should be grateful the British allowed you to retain any culture that you do have.'' Faut vraiment être déconnecté pour penser que la ''rétention''culturelle est le fruit d'une grâce, c'est plutôt la volonté intrinsèque des Québécois (autrefois Canadiens, Canadiens-français...). Sortez de votre monde politiquement correct, les britanniques n'ont laissés aucune chance, faut être un anglo pour penser ça !

    ReplyDelete
  42. WESTALLOPHONE++

    Thank you so much dude.Soon Québec will need much and much more French teachers (20 brand new French schools),so if you need a job...

    Thanks again for your precious help!

    ReplyDelete
  43. @ AngloBuster, April 8 at 2:13 pm:

    "Comme il est aussi facile de reconnaître un canadian dans un endroit public aux É.U.
    Un ami Américain m'a dit que les canadians ont un drôle de look,une drôle de tête et un accent de hillbillies."

    It is highly unlikely that you have any American friends because you have made a lot of disparaging remarks about them and their country. You probably have never even spoken to an American.

    I know Americans who live in states that border Quebec. They think Quebecois visitors to the U.S. are loud, demanding, arrogant and obnoxious, and they have an intense dislike of their coarse language.

    Americans have a greater affinity for Anglo-Canadians because they share a common language and have similar views regarding basic personal freedoms.

    ReplyDelete
  44. "Thank you so much dude.Soon Québec will need much and much more French teachers (20 brand new French schools),so if you need a job..."

    You should attend one of those new French elementary schools because your syntax and grammar are terrible. I'm sure you have the time because you are probably just another Quebecois welfare bum.

    ReplyDelete
  45. "...They think Quebecois visitors to the U.S. are loud, demanding, arrogant and obnoxious, and they have an intense dislike of their coarse language."

    Oui mais nous sommes payants pour eux.En fait,nous sommes les touristes les plus payants.De plus,ils doivent demeurer gentils car nous allons augmenter leurs tarifs hydro-électrique.Je donne même du pourboire a ceux qui essayent de nous parler en Français.Ils savent qu'avec notre puissance énergétique,nous alimentons presque toute la côte Est et le projets des newfies n'est pas pour demain.HaHa!

    ReplyDelete
  46. "...on ira en reparler."(sic)

    On en reparlera.

    ReplyDelete
  47. "Americans have a greater affinity for Anglo-Canadians because they share a common language and have similar views regarding basic personal freedoms."

    Il y a quelques années un groupe d'Américains en état d'ébriété modéré nous ont expliqué (un groupe de Québécois en état d'ébriété modéré) ce qu'ils pensent vraiment des Anglo-canadiens.

    Comme tu l'affirmes, ils ont dit qu'ils ont des affinités avec vous, car vous partagez la même langue et la même culture (dans le sens où vous vous abreuvez presque exclusivement à leur culture). Mais bien que les Américains aient une certaine sympathie pour vous, ils n'ont pas de véritable respect. Puisqu'ils vous voient comme une pâle copie de leur peuple, comme le petit chien qui "zing" après leur jambe. En fait, le type de respect qu'ils ont pour vous n'a rien à voir avec celui qu'on peut éprouver à l'égard d'une grande nation puissante et originale, il a plutôt trait à celui que les gens peuvent avoir pour une personne handicapée.

    ReplyDelete
  48. To Anon @ April 8, 2011 6:53 AM: There WAS an attempt to amalgamate regional school boards containing French and English schools about a year or two after the Great Charter of Charters was put into law. The Führer Laurin, author of the Great Charter of Charters, became Minister of Education (naturally), and proposed regional school boards all those years ago! HEIL!

    I fought it like crazy because it was obvious preference would be given to French schools, much as it has been since the implementation of the Great Charter of Charters. Lo and behold, like death and taxes, the English school enrolment has been endlessly shrinking and Quebec funding to English schools has been endlessly shrinking.

    Being from Chomedey, I saw the demise of my alma mater, Hillcrest Elementary School. It became a community centre and now a Greek parochial school. Other elementary schools to disappear in my neighbourhood are Martinvale, and Churchill/Irving Bregman Memorial, and T.H Bowes. Crestview and Souvenir are the only ones that remain, and Pierre Laporte, a school for French immersion and special ed needs is I don't know where. Between Chomedey Polyvalent and Western Laval H.S's, only one remains, the older building, CPHS, now known as Laval Liberty H.S. WLHS is now a private language school after having become the French École secondaire Marie Curie (Boom!) for years.

    Everywhere that there were English schools are now an English school graveyard, or an old piece of history to be forgotten. The lore of our former English schools will go to our graves with us! The way I see it, eventually, and much to the pleasure of the seppies, there will be NO more English instructional schools, at least public ones.

    Another reason a federal party is needed for the English speaking population of the Real Canada, including the West Island, West Central Montreal, and other pockets of the area surrounding Montreal. The Anglophone Quebecer is, as Robert Libman stated in his recent article, orphaned.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Anon @ April 8, 2011 11:12 AM:

    Your last paragraph indicates you've been paying attention to what I've been stating! If only it continues to catch on!

    ReplyDelete
  50. @Jean-Philippe

    Enfin quelqu'un qui pense comme moi.J'ai vraiment ri en lisant ton texte...Un chien qui zing après leur jambe!Hahahahaha!

    ReplyDelete
  51. "De plus,ils doivent demeurer gentils car nous allons augmenter leurs tarifs hydro-électrique."

    Try raising the electricity rates too high and the Americans will invade Quebec. Then your beloved language and so-called culture will surely disappear, as it did with nearly all of the other Francophones who moved to the United States over the past several centuries.

    "Mais bien que les Américains aient une certaine sympathie pour vous, ils n'ont pas de véritable respect."

    Americans have more respect for Anglo-Canadians than they do for the Quebecois. They just refer to you as a bunch of "frogs." The Francophones who migrated from Canada to work in the United States in the past were held in very low esteem - to the point that many of them hid their heritage by anglicizing their surnames.

    ReplyDelete
  52. WTF is this fascination with Americans about? Of course they look down on Canadians (all Canadians be them English or French). They look down on everyone in the world. If your not American you are second class, and if your not white, Christian and republican you are also considered second class. This is a similarity they share with some (not all) French Canadians, a false sense of entitlement and desire for racial and social purity.

    I believe all people are equal, but I know I'm in the minority on this site.

    ReplyDelete
  53. "Try raising the electricity rates too high and the Americans will invade Quebec."

    Au prix qu'ils nous coûte,on va avoir l'occasion d'essayer nos fameux f-35.

    ReplyDelete
  54. "...to the point that many of them hid their heritage by anglicizing their surnames."

    Comme Woody Allen (Königsberg) et Bob Dylan (Zimmerman) ou encore Fred Aster (Austerlitz)...Entre autres.

    ReplyDelete
  55. @ Mississauga guy,

    In Elementary I went to Outremont High School with my grade 5 class to go watch some play at their auditorium. I remember seeing a plaque dedicated to the former students that died fighting in World war 2, don't remember if there was any for world war 1. Then their was Northmount High Schools logo in their school gym, which was painted over by the new French school that took their place, Ecole Secondaire Van Horne which was changed to a more Quebecois name Lavoie in the late 90s

    So much history just flushed down the big toilet of the charter of charters.

    I just googled Irving bregman memorial, nothing suggesting who the closed school was named after. Couldn't find anything. Even though my alma mater sinclair laird elementary is still open (for now) couldn't find anything on who Sinclair Laird was at their website. Except that it opened in 1956 and some teachers and staff are still working there that were there 22 plus years ago.

    I don't know if its just my opinion but all the English School boards in Quebec should have a listing of all the closed schools with their history and what happened.

    I know that once the English Montreal School Board just stops referring to the closed schools and eliminates most traces of it from their website.

    Again all that history lost.

    ReplyDelete
  56. @ Press 9:

    "...to the point that many of them hid their heritage by anglicizing their surnames."

    "Comme Woody Allen (Königsberg) et Bob Dylan (Zimmerman) ou encore Fred Aster (sic) (Austerlitz)...Entre autres."

    The names you mention are those of entertainers, who commonly change their names. I was referring to average Joes (pardon the pun) who changed their surnames en masse after they moved to the U.S. so they wouldn't be recognized as Francophones.

    ReplyDelete
  57. What is the preblem?

    We did with english school what all the provinces did with french school: close it. Further more, once again, Quebec showed a biggest open minded by letting being educated in English possible.

    Read back your history racist canadian. Most of your provinces has forbidden all french education during it's history. When they killed the language, they let it back. Why Quebec can't act like real canadian?

    ReplyDelete
  58. @ Anonymous at 9:54 AM:

    "Quebec showed a biggest open minded by letting being educated in English possible.
    Most of your provinces has forbidden all french education during it's history."

    You are referring to the distant past. There are currently French schools across the country. Canada has evolved while Quebec has remained the most closed-minded backwater in North America.

    Quebec has also closed down English hospitals. At least two were shutdown in Montreal: the Reddy Memorial Hospital and the Queen Elizabeth Hospital.

    "Read back your history racist canadian."

    The most racist people in the country these days are the Quebecois.

    By the way, your written English is horrible. I suggest you write in French from now on so you can be better understood.

    ReplyDelete
  59. Sometimes there are circumstances in life that make exceptions. My parents are both francophone people from the province of Quebec. Because of this in accordance to Bill 101, I had to go to a french school coincidentally the first year I had to start school, the very year I moved into the province with my family. I didn't live in french communities before that time. For thirteen years I went to schools where I didn't belong.

    I love Montreal for its diversity, I had never felt so welcome in a school until I started going to Dawson College. That's right. After applying to the french Cegep board twice, and being rejected on both terms, despite the fact there were plenty of seats available after my applications, the french Montreal Cegep board had apparently denied me because there was a likelihood I would fail when not even half of my grades in french got in. I ended up with an average of 74% that year in french to my surprise and hard efforts bundled up with 2 extra credits under my belt. Dawson College accepted me When the French board didn't.

    I am still living in Montreal, now with my Polish husband. I don't want our future kids to go through what I did. I will want them to go to schools that want them. If I have to move away to a town outside the province, away from our friends and community. Then so be it.

    If francophones are so proud of their language, then their pride is what will keep french alive in the culture that is Quebec, not uncle Bill.

    ReplyDelete
  60. Reading all the above comments lead to nothing - as a matter of fact it is so sad to see a childish comments "who is better than who" - In brief, and regrettably I must point finger at the federal government that did nothing while the situation worsen by the day. Where is the protection to its citizens? -- One legislation could solve the whole problem of language issues -- I dare to say that only for a plotical gain the Canadian Federal government is doing nothing!!!! --- Similar situation happend in the USA during president Reagan where the Spanish wanted their language be officially recognized -- what happened was really amazing -- in less than a few weeks - the president himself announced that any one comes to the USA must speak English as it is the only language of the country and morever, any imigrant that wants to settle in the US must provide and pay for his translator and never the counry it self --- problem has been sloved since then. So, Can Canada do the same? -- Can Canada put its foot down and let it be known that Quebec had lost the war against the British and conqured and must live under the victorious rulers? - After all there is the Canadian currency Dollar that carries the Queen picture which represent the official status of such a nation. Enough is Enough

    ReplyDelete
  61. learn English in Ireland-You can learn English in your country in a local English language school. However, the experience and knowledge acquired is not the same as learning English where it is a native language.

    ReplyDelete
  62. I'm born in Quebec, I grew up in Quebec, my name is of French origin, but because my Grandfather was Irish, they call me an Anglophone... so what's the definition of "Anglophone"? It's someone who THEY decide who's part of their clique, i.e. bigot and exclusive. It has nothing to do with ethnic origin but rather of one's position in this debate: if you hate anyone who isn't purely French and of French descent, then they like you... maybe!

    Quebec is an embarrassment to Canada in front of the international community. I believe in the separation of Quebec, but in the sense that Ottawa should kick Quebec out of the Constitution. It would end up being the same result: they would detached from Canada, but I believe that because it wouldn't be done on Quebec's terms, they would fight tooth and nail to NOT be kicked out of Canada!

    It's a cancer, it's been going on for too long, and it's gotta stop!

    ReplyDelete
  63. French lessons Lyon-Every year there are many students who come to foreign countries to pursue a language course.

    ReplyDelete