Wednesday, March 16, 2011

Are Quebeckers Being Brainwashed?- Part Three

Nothing but nothing demonstrates the principle of the 'Big Lie' as does the case of the hullabaloo created by French language militants over their monstrously dishonest claim that access to English cegep by francophones and allophones should be limited because it represents a danger to the preservation of the French language.

Adolph Hitler described the use of the Big Lie in his book Mein Kampf and used the device to blame the Jews for Germany's economic woes in the 1930's, when he became leader of the country.
"....that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously." Adolf Hitler-Mein Kampf
And so the principle remains valid ninety years after Hitler wrote his book.
Tell a monstrously big lie, repeat it often enough and people are apt to believe it.

In a closed society like Germany or Quebec where language is a barrier to outside ideas, it is much easier to sell the 'big lie' and unfortunately sovereignists have resorted to this method of distortion because everything else they've tried has failed.

I have previously written on the utter stupidity of the notion that francophones who attend English cegeps are destined to abandon their language and culture and magically turn into anglophones
Read my previous posts on the subject;
English Cegep Study - A Case of Weird Science
More Language Nonsense from Pierre Curzi  

A recent article caught my attention because it confirms what I've been saying all along about this nonsense and amazingly that confirmation comes from the unlikeliest of sources:
"Pierre Curzi, PQ MNA for the South Shore riding of Chambly and sponsor of the Bill 101 proposal, says attending English CEGEP will lead French-speakers and allophones, after 12 years of obligatory primary and secondary schooling in French, to "anglicize."
But a study on linguistic transfers by allophones, conducted by the Conseil supérieur de la language française, says attending English CEGEPs has hardly any impact on linguistic transfers."  LINK
Yup, this is the opinion of the Conseil supérieur de la language française, a quasi-government body charged with advising the government on policy regarding the French language!
In December 2009 the president of this organization Conrad Ouellon, wrote a letter to La Presse denouncing the notion that English cegep contributes to the anglicization of Francophones;       
"Based on a rough analysis of  its own researchers, attendance in English cegep has virtually no effect on language shifts, he said, allophones anglotropes opt for English in the same proportion, whether or not they attended English cegep. In short, the study found that about 40% of "children of Bill 101 adopting English anyway.  LINK{FR}
"Two conclusions emerge from the data," Béland wrote. "First, among young francotropes and anglotropes, attendance in CEGEP had practically no impact on linguistic transfers. Secondly, these results confirm what previous studies revealed, that the origin of allophones is the principle determinant of linguistic transfers.    LINK
WOW!
Of course Pierre Curzi, chief spielmeister of the cegep big lie, never mentions Mr. Ouellon and Conseil supérieur de la language française's position when he hammers home his theme over and over again that English cegep is a threat.

Now it is painfully obvious that the position of CSLF conflicts rather badly with Mr. Curzi's narrative and represents quite a problem for PQ militants who want to debate the question of limiting access to these cegeps at the Parti Québécois convention to be held in Montreal next month where they'll be asked to sanction a proposal to extend Bill 101 to English cegeps.

So what's to be done to keep this big lie going?

Well after a great deal of pressure was brought to bear, the Conseil supérieur de la language française  has 'agreed' to revisit the matter and has in essence, renounced its previous position.


POOF!!  As if it was never there.

In an article in Le Devoir that borders on the absurd, you can just see the facts being re-engineered to suit the narrative woven by Pierre Curzi. If you read French, try not to laugh as you read how the Conseil tap dances to back away from the very well researched report that it produced. 
And so Mr. Ouellon has changed his tune rather abruptly! 
"In drafting our next position, the CSLF will be "more nuanced" and take into accountall relevant studies. "We will take into consideration all available data. And that's what is new, it will leads us to take a more formal, more reasoned conclusion, because it will consider a range of factors,"said Conrad Ouellon. LINK{FR}
Haha!!!!! Sounds like poor Mr. Ouellon is reading a prepared ransom note! ...
"I am being treated fairly......and don't call the police!

And so the Conseil will undertake a new revised study, politically revisioned, to be published after the PQ convention. The liars have won.

By the way you can read the entire original report written by Paul Béland for the CSLF, in French by downloading the PDF . I've downloaded my own copy, it's quite well done and convincing. I'm sure it will soon be disappeared a la Jimmy Hoffa!


Are Quebeckers being brainwashed? 
What can I say......wash, rinse, repeat..

94 comments:

  1. "Adolph Hitler described the use of the Big Lie in his book Mein Kampf and used the device to blame the Jews for Germany's economic woes in the 1930's, when he became leader of the country."

    Est-ce que les allemands représentaient 6 millions d'individus au milieu de 350 millions de Juifs?
    Vos comparaisons sont quelque peu boiteuses.

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  2. Mississauga Guy acrimoniouslyWednesday, March 16, 2011 at 4:32:00 AM EDT

    Sauvage you call yourself? You're much too generous with that alias, or is it your real name? If it is, I strongly suggest you speak very softly and wear a mouthguard.

    «350 millions de Juifs»? Where in the name of Archie Bunker did you get that number? When Hitler was implementing his Final Solution, there were, by the estimates of the Nazis, 11 million Jews in the world, 9 million of them in Europe. Hitler nailed 2/3 of European Jews, exterminated really.

    Today there are only 15 million Jews in the world. 40% of world Jewry lives in the USA, i.e., six million Jews. Canada has about 400,000.

    Since I don't know who the hell you are, I can only guess you have Sagueneen origins, a collective of country bumpkins tantamount to the Confederates of the Southeastern U.S. who are so ignorant they are beyond even THINKING of trying to re-educate them.

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  3. Hey Sauvage even Hitler started somewhere...... There's absolutely nothing good about the Quebec Nationalists... I put nothing past you Zenophobes... Thanks to you , Quebec is a Bananna Republic in the making...

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  4. Pierre Curzi, people like Sauvage above and their minions are proof positive Canada DESPARATELY needs a federal political party to put the likes of those savage thinkers in their place, and a major part of that party platform would be to cut...no...BUTCHER Quebec's portion of the Equalization formula.

    What the tyrannous Quebec majority has become is an intolerant, mean-spirited and ignorant collective. The current FEDERAL political parties neither have the political will nor the gonads to combat the ignorance. "Leave bad enough alone" seems to be the prevailing sentiment. Hell, Jack Layton and his flunky, Uncle Tom Mulcair, have advocated the hard line stance the supposed "federalist" PLQ has become.

    Anglophones currently have ZERO representation in the National Assembly--ZERO! Kathleen Weil, Geoffry Kelley, Yolande James and the rest of this motley crew are Quislings, spineless jellyfish who support the bitter attitude taken towards Quebecers who have to jump through hoops to get an English education for their children.

    Sadly, the West Island has abandoned the Equality Party, or failed to form a replacement that would more realistically represent them. Having four MNAs who reflect the aspirations of the Anglphone community is better than four Quislings who slither like petrified puppies with their tails between their legs!

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  5. As a native french speaker now with two kids, who moved from saguenay a long time ago (11 years), I think Hard core "frenchists" don't understand that in the end, we just wanna be Functional in the society. And sorry. but society outside Quebec does not speak nor understand french for the most part. and they have no interests to.

    Limiting ourselves to french only stuff and our own corner of North America is too small to strive in most domains now. We are competing with the world.

    Since english courses throughout the elementary school and high school are a stupid joke, as almost no one taking them will be actually functional beside asking we are the washrooms or what's the translation for "depanneur".

    If I decide that my kids will speak english properly, and open themselves to the world and not only to Quebec, that's my own business. Not the government. I don't think it will make them "lose" their french, it's only going to be an added value.

    This way, they'll be able to get out of here when they realise that the RRQ they are paying will essentially pay for some babyboomers golden retirement instead of their own.

    The way education is made here, makes the Quebec a prison. You don't have the knowledge to get out.

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  6. ""Adolph Hitler described the use of the Big Lie in his book Mein Kampf and used the device to blame the Jews for Germany's economic woes in the 1930's, when he became leader of the country."

    Est-ce que les allemands représentaient 6 millions d'individus au milieu de 350 millions de Juifs?
    Vos comparaisons sont quelque peu boiteuses."

    Irrelevant. The article's goal has nothing to do with population proportions and the fact that Quebeckers are a small sea of French in an English ocean does nothing to remove the validity of the quote. And are you insinuating that Quebeckers being fewer than anglos in North America justifies a big lie like Hitler's?

    "Since I don't know who the hell you are, I can only guess you have Sagueneen origins, a collective of country bumpkins tantamount to the Confederates of the Southeastern U.S. who are so ignorant they are beyond even THINKING of trying to re-educate them"

    Dude comon. You're better than this. If you don't know where he's from leave it be. Don't take it as carte blanche to insult some random Quebec community in such a harsh way. All the Sagueneeans (is that right?) I've met were really nice people.

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  7. Moofoo, what language do your kids speak at home?

    Your English is stupendous by the way. Where'd you learn it?

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  8. "The way education is made here, makes the Quebec a prison. You don't have the knowledge to get out"

    Depuis quand ne parler que Français vous empêche de vous ouvrir sur le monde et de voyager?
    Êtes-vous un attardé?Vous avez dit brainwashing?

    Si vous avez besoin du globish pour votre travail,étudiez-le sinon ce n'est pas a l'État Québécois de payer pour l'apprentissage d'une deuxième langue.

    Attention a l'assimilation de vos vos enfants Monsieur le Saguenéen.

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  9. "globish"

    Distorting a word to make it sound funny, much like a child would do, is where you lose all credibility.

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  10. @Jason

    Voici ce que vous devez apprendre pour vous ouvrir sur le monde et devenir quelqu'un : 15k mots d'anglais.Disons qu'on est loin de Shakespeare.

    http://monvocabulaire.com/liste-vocabulaire-voir-1128-les-1500-mots-du-globish.html

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  11. Rectification: C'est 1.5k de mots (ouch!)

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  12. @Mississausage

    "Since I don't know who the hell you are, I can only guess you have Sagueneen origins..."

    Tu viens de te mettre un doigt dans l'oeil et l'autre dans l'cul dude.

    Voir le commentaire de Moofo.

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  13. "Distorting a word to make it sound funny, much like a child would do, is where you lose all credibility..."

    Pouvons nous appliquer votre règle a ce mot: "frenchists" ? (voir commentaire de Moofo)

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  14. "Moofoo, what language do your kids speak at home?"

    Je crois que c'est évident,le langage du patron de Monsieur Moofo...L'anglais.De cette façon ses enfant vont associés réussite financière au globish.

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  15. Not only have Quebecers been brainwashed for many decades if not longer but so are the rest of Canadians since Trudeau and his gang arrived in Ottawa in the 1960”s. Trudeau and his gang forced the charter on the country and remember it was under Trudeaus watch that the banning and outlawing of the English language began with Trudeaus support. We have been fed a pack of lies for about 50 years now in regards to bilingualism, multiculturalism, the charter and all sorts of money sucking propaganda, spin and lies.

    Whats even worse is that ALL politicians from all mainstream parties have allowed all of these lies, spin and expensive, revisionist, socialist nonsense to continue.Liberal, Tory same old expensive story.

    Solution? Well there is only one. A new party and a new leader. People from the private sector with no relationship to any of the mainstream parties…One that details before an election what they stand for. We need a party with specific, fiscally conservative policies. One that defines essential and non-essential (expensive waste) services in a platform before elections. One that will cut waste, reduce taxes, eliminate departments, downsize government…repeal bad laws (the charter, bilingual, multicultural…)…One that will tell unions to rot in hell. No more lies, propaganda, and spin, what we now get on a daily basis. Canada needs a party that stands for integrity, honesty, transparency and common sense. One that is proud of our real BNA history.

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  16. To be honest, as I have done bilingual tech support and I realized one thing. For my own selfish interests, I am glad that majority of the Quebecois don't know english, because if they did alot of the work I get would be at risk for increased competitition. While I want bill 101 abolished, I wouldn't mind a return to the days of Bill 22. It would help get a viable English public school system and non stagnating Anglophone community in the montreal area. IF you think about it the general lack of English of the Francophone majority did help many of us to find a niche field to make a living and also give small advantages to english speakers here and there. Just think of where knowing English in Quebec has helped us allos and anglophones in the Montreal area and outside Quebec as well.

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  17. "Voici ce que vous devez apprendre pour vous ouvrir sur le monde et devenir quelqu'un : 15k mots d'anglais.Disons qu'on est loin de Shakespeare."

    No clue what you'rte trying to prove so I'll just skip this.

    "Pouvons nous appliquer votre règle a ce mot: "frenchists" ? (voir commentaire de Moofo)"

    No because ist is an actual suffix that can be placed on a word to make it a profession. So no, frenchist is not a word that got distorted to sound funny for some lame insult.

    "Je crois que c'est évident,le langage du patron de Monsieur Moofo...L'anglais."

    About 99.9% sure I wasn't talking to you. Indigene/Moofoo, see the difference in the spelling? But way to assume and potentially set yourself up to look like an idiot.

    "De cette façon ses enfant vont associés réussite financière au globish."

    I think they can make their own conclusions about that simply by looking at which "state" is among the most indebted in North America, with one of the highest high school dropout rates, and highest rates of welfare. I'm not saying the French language is the cause of all this but I'm just responding to your asinine comment by showing you how the evidence doesn't really stack in Quebec's favour.

    Oooooh there's that globbish word again. Gonna call somebody a pipi-caca face next? Better not, 'cause they'll probably tell the principal on you.

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  18. Désolé Jasonne mais ce n'est pas moi qui est inventé ce mot.Tapez GLOBISH sur google.De plus,vous ne pouvez reprocher aux autres ce que vous faites a longueur de journée sur ce blogue,c'est-a-dire d'interférer dans le fil de discussions constemment.Que dites-vous du mot "seppie" pour illustrer les vrais Québécois?

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  19. "...just responding to your asinine comment by showing you how the evidence doesn't really stack in Quebec's favour."

    Que faites-vous donc ici?...Sans indiscrétion.
    Vous aimez les avantages de notre système socialiste?Ou vous êtes trop stupide pour allez vivre en Ontario ou aux states,votre paradis.

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  20. Hé Jasonne c'est pas Moofoo,c'est Moofo!

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  21. Combien utilisez-vous de mots dans vos communications orales ou écrites Jason?
    1.5k ou moins c'est du globish.Désolé!

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  22. Man full seppie mode in the comments today, not one adressed the affirmation of the writer, one tried to use the same lame idiotic response that we must kill the anglo in quebec, because he hates them, well sorry not just one pretty much the usual morons. Silly.
    My hats off to Moofo, not many do, and doing so late in life is tougher. My father was fully bilingual, and managed eastern canada, he would have promoted many competed quebec managers, but could not for most of them, because they were unilingual, called themselves bilingual but could barely put a sentence together. that is what the PQ achieved, demolishing the french canadian worker. Bravo :)

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  23. I found out about this site by accident while doing a google search a few weeks and I was immediately intrigued. Although I view myself as a moderate separatist, I am aloways looking to challenge my views and to experience others' point of view. I thought this blog, despite it's sometimes offensive posters could be a good place for that, and I actually tried to provide a reasonable counterpoint with a few posts here and there.

    I'm done.

    This may be the first time ever that I stopped reading an article after a few phrases and that I have absolutely no desire to continue reading that piece. The continuous and everpresent use of the word NAZI or of nazi references and imagery to describe Québec, it's people, policies or anything that the author disagrees with is vile, repugnant and disgusting.

    I did a quick google search and there are about 104 articles in this blog with either the words Nazi or Hitler. Only someone with a truly diseased mind could truly compare Nazi Germany with Québec. What's the use of trying to engage in a discussion with someone for who the situation of anglophones in Québec is in any way comparable to the slaughter of millions of Jews. IMO, the repeated use of those kind of comparisons destroy any credibility this blog may have had, and obliterates an argument that was weak and incredibly biased to start with.

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  24. To Indigene/Stephen Harpon/AngloBuster/Maxime Berner/Dog killer from West/Anonymous:

    "De plus,vous ne pouvez reprocher aux autres ce que vous faites a longueur de journée sur ce blogue,c'est-a-dire d'interférer dans le fil de discussions constemment."

    This is exactly what you are doing, and have been doing for months - constantly interfering in the thread of discussions. A classic case of projection and hypocrisy. Your use of all of these different names isn't fooling anyone either. You're obviously trying to undermine this blog. I wish the Editor would stop publishing your one or two line, antagonistic comments that have very little to do with the topics being discussed.

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  25. "demolishing the French canadian..."

    Hein!?!De quel siècle êtes-vous?French canadian ne se dit plus depuis longtemps chez-nous (sauf chez les personnes agées conservatrices).En fait c'est devenu une insulte bien pire que "seppie" qui fait référence a notre fierté et a notre Nationalisme.

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  26. Not the One, nice, take your toys and go play in another sandbox, what grand standing on your part, that nationalists get associated to Nazi should be surprising, since both call to identity and race (read anything on ntionalism 1890-1960) and you will see the correlation, you sincerely think the comparison can be avoided? no it cannot, Goebels/Stalin wrote the book on the big lie, that you feel unconfortable towards it does not surprised me. you thought only the anglos were the nazi, well wake up and smell the coffee all your etchnic laws take inspiration to the same sentiment the Nazi's took, race.

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  27. "You're obviously trying to undermine this blog..."

    Vous le faites très bien vous-même,pas besoin de l'aide de personne.Quand vous traitez ma Nation de nazi c'est qu'il y a forcément "Qq chose de pourri" dans votre tête.

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  28. "Missiseppie

    Hein!?!De quel siècle êtes-vous?French canadian ne se dit plus depuis longtemps chez-nous (sauf chez les personnes agées conservatrices).En fait c'est devenu une insulte bien pire que "seppie" qui fait référence a notre fierté et a notre Nationalisme."

    Your POV, it does apply to many, get off it, it is an insult to the seppies only, another example of the big lie.

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  29. To Not The One:

    "What's the use of trying to engage in a discussion with someone for who the situation of anglophones in Québec is in any way comparable to the slaughter of millions of Jews."

    Of course the situation is not nearly as severe, but there ARE comparisons. Nazi Germany was fascist, and modern-day Quebec is neo-fascist.

    While there hasn't been a mass killing of Anglophones in Quebec, there certainly has been a soft ethnic cleansing of them. Hundreds of thousands of Anglos have relocated. Camille Laurin, the father of Bill 101, said that he wanted to reduce the number of Anglos in the province, and it appears that he succeeded.

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  30. To Not the One @3:17
    "I did a quick google search and there are about 104 articles in this blog with either the words Nazi or Hitler.

    I must take exception to your comment that claims that there are 104 posts in this blog that some how compared Quebec or Quebeckers to Nazis or Hitler.

    You are likely referring to the comments which do not necessarily represent my views.
    I would refer you to wikipedia for an interesting take on Nazi references in blog threads.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

    In fact, sir or madam, there are 25 post out of 702 total posts (3.5%) where the words Nazi/Hitler are part of the blog piece I wrote.

    "They (PAJU) issued this press release which referred to MNRQ as Nazis, and called a temporary halt to the boycott."

    Some of these references are quotes from third parties people like Luck Mervil or Jacques Brassard.

    Terms like "Soup Nazi"are also included.

    I have in yesterday's piece used an explanation of the Nazi invention of the Big Lie to compare what certain language nationalists are doing to influence public opinion.
    I stand by that comparison.
    As for the rest I have never called Francophones or Quebeckers Nazis. Ever. Not privately or in print or on the web.
    I actually like francophones Quebeckers a great deal, individually and collectively. I have worked my entire life in a French milieu and resent your gratuitous insult.

    I have reviewed those 25 blog pieces and can say that there is not one insulting reference made by myself.

    Before making such allegations, one should seriously do ones research.
    I believe you owe me an apology.

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  31. "Camille Laurin, the father of Bill 101, said that he wanted to reduce the number of Anglos in the province, and it appears that he succeeded."

    Sauf qu'il nous reste beaucoup de travail a faire.
    Ils représentent encore 8% de notre population.

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  32. "Your POV, it does apply to many, get off it, it is an insult to the seppies only, another example of the big lie..."

    Allez traiter des jeunes Québécois de "canadiens Français" et vous aurez votre réponse.Je crois que vous êtes simplement déconnecté de notre société.
    canadien Français...wow!

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  33. To AngloBuster:

    "Camille Laurin, the father of Bill 101, said that he wanted to reduce the number of Anglos in the province, and it appears that he succeeded."

    "Sauf qu'il nous reste beaucoup de travail a faire.
    Ils représentent encore 8% de notre population."


    The term "NAZI" definately applies to you.

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  34. Anglo buster you are wrong we are 13.5 and growing. Remember Camille Laurin had to rely on Quebec bureaucrats who are generally overpaid and underworked. Whenever Quebec tries to implement things you get similar results. The opposite of what they want to implement.

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  35. "Vous aimez les avantages de notre système socialiste?"

    Of course your are refeering to the advantages of your socialist (fascist) province which are paid for by hard working english and allo canadians that you openly criticize.

    Vous avez un tete pleine de merde.

    Oh BTW, WOW is an english term. Silly little Quebecois que vous etes. Trouvez un autre terme de la francais. :)

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  36. La classe sociale du blog égoutte, tombe goutte à goutte, de son gros égoût au canal anglais. C'est le martyr du compte-gouttes aux locuteurs de français du Québec que ces personnes, pire que des arracheurs de dents du XVIIe siècle.

    Ce sont des rabat-joie de la pire espèce qui se sent fait mettre à la porte ou qui sont des travailleurs qui sont incapables de parler français, ou pire qui refusent de le faire. A quoi bon! qu'ils payent leur quote-part au Canada, d'un autre pays, celui du Québec, dont les revenus retombent sur eux éventuellement.
    En ce qui me concerne, ce sont eux les arrivistes, car les faiseurs de troubles ce sont eux, des anglophones qui jouent sur les mots pour en arriver à leur fin: contre la francophonie pure et simple.

    De sales anarchistes séparatistes anglais.

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  37. The Quebec Nation/ Quebecois is a figment of some Zenophobe's mind.. Doesn't exist... There is only one NATION here.. it's called the CANADIAN Nation.... of which the "Canadien Francais" is part of. If you want out revolt.. take to the streets..... otherwise stop pretending....

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  38. > En ce qui me concerne, ce sont eux les arrivistes, car les faiseurs de troubles ce sont eux […] de sales anarchistes séparatistes anglais.

    Ce serait bien beau si un binarisme aussi simpliste réussissait à se tenir debout tout seul. C’est aussi un binarisme qui réduit tout le monde à une étiquette « anglo » ou « franco » (et qui fait fi du contingent « allo »), alors qu’un nombre grandissant rejette s’associer mordicus à une seule de ces identités préfabriquées, préconçues, et vieillottes.

    Bien sûr, il y a et il y aura toujours des extrémistes qui essaient de tirer la couverte dans tous les sens. Ce qui m’inquiète le plus, c’est que lorsqu’on étudie le mélodrame que nous servent depuis maintenant presqu’un demi-siècle les militants « purs et durs » du PQ et leurs sympathisants nationalistes, l’on apprécie à quel point eux aussi savent habilement retravailler l’histoire, et jouent sur les mots et sur l’émotivité des Québécois pour arriver à leur fin. On n’a qu’à constater le fait que le projet que nous proposent ces derniers depuis des décennies ne parviendra jamais à dépasser le seuil des 50% sans faire appel à des arguments xénophobes, émotifs, et marginalisants.

    J’en ai soupé de ces démagogues politico-religieux qui depuis des siècles font appel à notre fibre nationaliste et notre solidarité pour nous vendre l’idée qu’il n’y a rien de plus impératif que de faire perdurer à l’image de leurs caprices et lubies cette colonie sempiternellement vulnérable. Il y a bien pire que de devenir minoritaire, tant au plan ethnique que linguistique que religieux que racial que socioéconomique. Tôt ou tard, toute majorité sera remplacée par une autre. Il est ridicule de légiférer contre une tendance.

    Ce qui est inquiétant, c’est qu’il soit devenu socialement, politiquement, et médiatiquement acceptable de véhiculer cette idée que nos deux paliers gouvernementaux ne sont en effet pas que de simples gestionnaires de compétences qui sont appelables à nous citoyens, mais qu’un de ces gouvernements nous représente et appartient, alors que l’autre vise à nous déposséder.

    Je soumets à la considération des lecteurs de ce blogue que les arrivistes véritables sont bel et bien ceux qui font carrière de cette obsession provinciale (dans les deux sens du terme) de jouer sur nos peurs et valeurs identitaires et qui, du même souffle nous nient ce qui à mon avis nous méritons d’eux d’emblée, soit la paix, l’ordre, et le bon gouvernement.

    Be afraid. Be very afraid.

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  39. "Anglo Bashers said
    Allez traiter des jeunes Québécois de "canadiens Français" et vous aurez votre réponse.Je crois que vous êtes simplement déconnecté de notre société.
    canadien Français...wow!"

    Deconnecter vraiment, je fais le test a tout les jours, autre que toi, jamais eux de probleme :) rebranche toi dans une plogue pour te reconnecter, essai le 220 :)

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  40. @Jason: My kids speaks french, but since my son is three years old, and my daughter 18 months, it's not a big deal. My son already knows how to count to ten in english though !

    I'm a sysadmin. And a long time ago, back in the time I dropped out of CEGEP, I understood that computing in an another language than english is simply a waste of time: More bugs due to translation, programmers and engineer have a hard time dealing with localized systems.

    I learned english and my job by myself by reading a lot of books and documentation. I don't think that way would work with everyone. I was also fortunate to have a job a few years ago that go me to travel around the united states a lot… More on that. I have a tale for the editor.

    @Maxime Berné
    I'm not talking about travelling, I'm talking about actually moving out and/or working elsewhere. I might not write so badly, but for some anglophones, I still have an accent when I talk. Some find it lovely, some hate it. With equal knowledge and abilities, when my resume is side by side with one from a real anglo, the person hiring will probably take the real anglo, as my accent might be a sign that I don't have enough vocabulary or that I'm not articulated enough to be proficient at what I'm doing. Especially when working with a team.

    Since elementary school we are told that english is bad and french is better. But never any arguments.

    @ Indigène
    My bosses and most of my coworkers are Quebecois Pure Laine. I speak french and use french swear words at work. I'm working for a French TV production company and the only department with english speaking persons are in one department, selling some TV shows we're producing to US and Canada English channels, but our bread and butter is coming from the TV shows we're doing for quebec people. I'm in Montreal since 11 years and I'm never going to move back to saguenay. It's a retard place. They are scared of change. It would be a perfect place for Louis Prefontaine though.

    Now, with kids, it's tougher to think about it, but I would move to the USA tomorrow provided I would get a Green card. No more scam with income taxes, efficient hospitals, nice roads and no more debates about whether or not the Quebec should split...

    I began to hate my language more and more when i wanted to have some pieces of equipment and they were "not available" here since no tech support nor manual would be provided in french. It happened to me a lot of time.

    This is just stupid. A country who says that their greatest technology achievement is the "Canadian arm" and it's been more than 20 years have no word to say on what technology equipment we bring here from outside.

    ReplyDelete
  41. @Moofo

    Force est de constater que tu dis tout haut ce que bon nombre pensent tout bas.

    It’s nothing short of refreshing to know that many are able to embrace change while not being afraid to denounce the hypocritical narrative that epitomizes if not romanticizes the very nationalism that has us perpetually locked in a soap opera reminiscent of Maria Chapdelaine almost a hundred years after it was first published.

    If you read some of my previous posts, you’ll probably realize pretty quickly that I have no use for ethnolinguistic labels since I’m a three-way mutt with no particular loyalty to any particular dogma but my own and that I believe it is my God-given right to revel in the best that my three backgrounds have to offer.

    At the same time, I have difficulty reconciling how many Quebecers wish to see French protected, but continue to be stymied by many in our own political elite in our own growing demands for a more functional integration within the current dominant culture. I too have come to feel (and resent being) forced to support, uphold, and champion what I increasingly see as vindictive legislated uniformity rather than necessary measures aimed at respectfully, efficiently, and effectively preserving our culture.

    I’ve professionally and personally “made it” both in English and in French, and I personally like it that way. My own frustration has little to do with some language barrier or even neo-colonialist fantasies proffered by our friends at Vigile & friends. It has everything to do with my despising the very restraining policies (a.k.a. “the Noble lie”) that they pseudo-intellectually couch in lofty revolutionary and liberating language, many of which contribute to making us both a captive labor market and which drive a wedge between us and our neighbors (which in turn facilitates the “Big Lie” that Editor speaks of).

    My only question now is, why are so many people still numb as hell?

    ReplyDelete
  42. @Moofo et Apparatchik

    Je répète ma question : Que faites vous donc ici?
    350,000,000 d'anglophones en amérique vous attendent les bras ouverts.Vous allez détestez l'endroit ou vous habitez le reste de votre vie?
    Êtes-vous stupides a ce point?Allez-vous essayer de changer notre société le reste de votre vie au lieu de mettre vos énergies a votre travail?

    Est-ce que je vais aller m'installer en ontario et chiâler,perdre mon énergie (pour une cause perdue d'avance) le reste ma vie parcequ'ils ne parlent pas assez Français?C'est notre droit le plus légitime de vouloir conserver notre État Français.Déménagez ou fermez vos gueules ostie!

    ReplyDelete
  43. Anglo buster,

    Don't worry the way things are going no matter what you say there is no more Etat francais, like there never was. If you don't like it move, esthie du kalice, tabernac.

    ReplyDelete
  44. A Anglobuster, the same reason you stay and don't go elsewhere with your French only stance (like you say u no need to know English to go out if Quebec)
    So if I don't agree with you, we should leave? Strange I feel the same way with you, France and north Africa awaits,80 millions plus, with open arms :)
    Now seriously, we stay because we push for change in this society, slowly but surely u can see seppies lies are no longer gaining traction, who believes Marois? (other than short bus rider Anglobuster)

    ReplyDelete
  45. You push for changes, we push for changes since 400 years. qqchose de pourri is smelling sewer. English sewer.
    Anglo from 12:23 is saying a lot of the F... word in French. The blog has no shame in carrying V U L G A R I T Y TOWARDS THE FRENCH.

    you are helping the people to nurture a poisonous feeling towards the French of Canada.

    ReplyDelete
  46. "...the same reason you stay and don't go elsewhere..."

    Pourquoi je quitterais un endroit ou je suis parfaitement heureux?C'est vous les malheureux éternellement insatisfait d'habiter un État Français.

    ReplyDelete
  47. "slowly but surely u can see seppies lies are no longer gaining traction...."

    Nous en reparlerons aux prochaines élections fédérales et provinciales.

    ReplyDelete
  48. "who believes Marois?"

    Who believes Charest? Ha!

    ReplyDelete
  49. @AngloBuster
    People who think like me actually pay income taxes and bring "water to the mill". If we leave, my feelling that only "granola smokers" who feel that they should have everything for free will remain here. Making the Quebec a worst Wasteland than it is right now.

    You really should watch "L'illusion tranquille". Quebec could be a prosper place if we stopped wasting time, public money and effort to separate or "being better than everyone" by denying the need for english here. Instead we are going straight to bankrupt. Oh yes we'll have our "country", and our "french", but it's going to be among you, and you'll be poor.

    Kids coming out of school today are in no way prepared to deal globally. No one is a farmer dealing with only it's neighbours anymore. We have to get a value elsewhere than on our turf. And at that, we are failing miserably.

    When a dad is coming to the CPE to fetch his kid in the afternoon and he smells pot, I marvel how come a society could afford daycare places for people who does not bring money for the well being of the society, while denying them to those who actually pay most of the fees for it.

    It's a punk attitude, it's the Quebec attitude. Whatever you do, you can have it. Live on our money, spend it on drugs and send your kids to daycare on our dime...

    Yeah, what a nice culture !

    ReplyDelete
  50. Wow Moofo so well said, l'illusion tranquille was awesome, loved it. I assume you follow the RLQ. These morons may be in for a rude awekening, we are not alone thinking big changes are needed and that the seppie have brought only desolation and destruction to this province. thta is why i use the handle qq chose de pourri, there is definitely something wrotten in this province.

    ReplyDelete
  51. [Stephen Harpon said...
    "slowly but surely u can see seppies lies are no longer gaining traction...."

    Nous en reparlerons aux prochaines élections fédérales et provinciales.]

    That is a date, Cheesehead will get in bu the split in federalist votes, not much of a victory.

    Now this one

    ["who believes Marois?"

    Who believes Charest? Ha!]

    Lol u think Charest is my guy, funny short bus rider that u are, u can ponly think in 2 dimension, and the worse of it, is come election time, despite being the worst premier in quebec history he may still get in, because people has had enough of Marois.

    ReplyDelete
  52. "Yeah, what a nice culture !"

    Vous pouvez être un amarrricain si vous voulez,aucun problème mais il serait plus facile pour vous de changer de pays au lieu d'essayer de changer le pays.

    ReplyDelete
  53. @AngloBuster
    It's not a country yet. It never will with this attitude.

    It's not a government it's anarchy entwined with mafiosis and overpowered unions.

    Give me a green card and I will leave.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Je ne peux vous donner la carte verte mais vous avez carte blanche.

    ReplyDelete
  55. "De plus,vous ne pouvez reprocher aux autres ce que vous faites a longueur de journée sur ce blogue,c'est-a-dire d'interférer dans le fil de discussions constemment."

    I'm defending anglo rights on an English blog that has that exact purpose. What exactly am I interupting? Or does disagreeing with your all mighty opinion simply constitute interupting?

    "Que dites-vous du mot "seppie" pour illustrer les vrais Québécois?"

    Seppie is just short for seperatist. And what exaclty constitutes a VRAI Quebecois? Someone that doesn't agree with you is a fake? Well then I guess that makes 50.8% (or 63% according to the latest polls) of the province's populace fake Quebeckers. I think at that point your definiton of a "real" Quebecker simply becomes ambiguous.

    "Vous aimez les avantages de notre système socialiste?Ou vous êtes trop stupide pour allez vivre en Ontario ou aux states,votre paradis."

    Advantages? Nearly half my paycheque going to taxes that pay for welfare bums and a federal seperatist political party is an advantage? And I suppose all these social programs that are proven to be sinking Quebec's economy down the crapper is another "advantage".

    I don't want to live anywhere else, thank you. Quebec has been my family's home for 220 years and I don't plan on changing that.

    "Hé Jasonne c'est pas Moofoo,c'est Moofo!"

    I'm glad we're sticking to what's important.

    Oh and I love how you added an "e" on my name to make it feminine. Really brings back memories because I used to do that too! I was in 2nd grade but I still used to do it.

    "Combien utilisez-vous de mots dans vos communications orales ou écrites Jason?
    1.5k ou moins c'est du globish.Désolé!"

    I never asked you to explain what you SAID, but what you were trying to PROVE, and I still don't understand. And by the way, I don't speak Globbish because I'm English. Get your facts straight.

    "En fait c'est devenu une insulte bien pire que "seppie" qui fait référence a notre fierté et a notre Nationalisme."

    Really? 'Cause I can easily name you at least 20 to 25 pure laine Quebeckers (many of which are seperatist) I know that consider themselves as French Canadian. It shocks me when they tell me that they consider themselves as such but there you go. Remember, just because in your mind it's an insult doesn't mean the feeling is shared by everyone else.

    ReplyDelete
  56. ""Camille Laurin, the father of Bill 101, said that he wanted to reduce the number of Anglos in the province, and it appears that he succeeded."

    Sauf qu'il nous reste beaucoup de travail a faire.
    Ils représentent encore 8% de notre population."

    You just told Quelque chose de pouri off because he calls you a Nazi and then you follow with something like this. I think a 5-year-old could point out the hypocracy here.

    "La classe sociale du blog égoutte, tombe goutte à goutte, de son gros égoût au canal anglais. C'est le martyr du compte-gouttes aux locuteurs de français du Québec que ces personnes, pire que des arracheurs de dents du XVIIe siècle.

    Ce sont des rabat-joie de la pire espèce qui se sent fait mettre à la porte ou qui sont des travailleurs qui sont incapables de parler français, ou pire qui refusent de le faire. A quoi bon! qu'ils payent leur quote-part au Canada, d'un autre pays, celui du Québec, dont les revenus retombent sur eux éventuellement.
    En ce qui me concerne, ce sont eux les arrivistes, car les faiseurs de troubles ce sont eux, des anglophones qui jouent sur les mots pour en arriver à leur fin: contre la francophonie pure et simple.

    De sales anarchistes séparatistes anglais."

    And the reward for the longest empty insult goes to...

    "Allez traiter des jeunes Québécois de "canadiens Français" et vous aurez votre réponse.Je crois que vous êtes simplement déconnecté de notre société.
    canadien Français...wow"

    I've had many conversations with pure Quebeckers in which the term French Canadian came up and nothing ever went wrong. A few weeks ago the term came up with co-workers and we went out for lunch later so I'm pretty sure they weren't bothered by it; or they consider themselves French Canadians. In fact it came up with my roomate a few days ago. He told me he thinks Quebecker's should use the term MORE. Again, don't forget that the reality in your mind isn't necessarily the reality for everyone else.

    "My kids speaks french, but since my son is three years old, and my daughter 18 months, it's not a big deal. My son already knows how to count to ten in english though !"

    Awesome! The reason I asked was to prove that even a francophone that moves away can keep the french language, culture and spirit alive through simple force of will. Language legislation of the magnitude in Quebec is not required to keep a culture alive.

    "Déménagez ou fermez vos gueules ostie"

    Statements like this make it hard to believe we'd be respected in a sovereign Quebec.

    "Pourquoi je quitterais un endroit ou je suis parfaitement heureux?C'est vous les malheureux éternellement insatisfait d'habiter un État Français."

    We don't live in a French state. We live in a country called Canada which has two official languages. Not happy with Canada? There's a French-only country accross the ocean if you like. If you don't consider yourself Canadian that's your right. But a huge portion of Quebec's population does. Get used to it.

    "Nous en reparlerons aux prochaines élections fédérales et provinciales."

    When the PQ wins the next election, it certainly won't be because the seperatist ideal is gaining traction. It'll be solely because Charest has screwed up more than one would have thought was humanly possible for a provincial PM.

    "Who believes Charest? Ha!"

    Why do seppies believe Charest represents our values? We only voted for him because he's the lesser of 3 evils, or at least presented himself as such.

    ReplyDelete
  57. "We live in a country called Canada..."

    Tu vis dans un pays appelé canada...Mais ce n'est que dans ta tête.Tu vois beaucoup de feuilles d'érable flottée sur Montréal?

    La réalité est fort différente car le canada est un pays anglophone avec une mentalité d'anglophones et c'est bien ainsi.Tout n'est pas que question de langue et tu représente un anglophone minoritaire qui vit dans la seule province Francophone avec une mentalité qui lui est propre et un environnement spécifique aux Québécois fort différent des canadians.

    Parfois il est important de remettre les pendules a l'heure pour ceux qui ont un sens de l'observation atrophié que ça te plaise ou non.

    ReplyDelete
  58. No one can answer the simple Question:

    Why is french better for Quebec ?

    There is no logical answer. "Better it is like this now" cannot be a more moronic and "fear of change" statement.

    ReplyDelete
  59. “La réalité est fort différente car le canada est un pays anglophone avec une mentalité d'anglophones et c'est bien ainsi.”

    What are you still doing in a country whose reality is so different? Do you mean to say that 8 billion a year is enough to buy you off? 8 billion dollars is how much you’d sell your souls and your ideals for?

    It looks like you’re just a bunch of cheap whores, then.

    ReplyDelete
  60. "Tu vis dans un pays appelé canada...Mais ce n'est que dans ta tête"

    Uh no. We live in Canada and that can be confirmed by every single human being on the face of the earth except for Queebc seperatists. Didn't realize so many people fit in my head.

    "La réalité est fort différente car le canada est un pays anglophone avec une mentalité d'anglophones et c'est bien ainsi"

    You know I've gone through allot of effort in my life to understand the struggle of the Quebecois, and I sympathize. I just don't agree with the methods of saving the culture. But you have to make the effort too, and the day you stop lumping all english-speakers into the same boat called "the English" is the day we can make progress. Canada does not have an English mentality, because our politics are different from other English-speaking nations, as they all are from each other. Some policies might be similar but they're are huge differences between us. So if all these nations differ in the way they govern then there is no such thing as an English mentality.

    "Tout n'est pas que question de langue et tu représente un anglophone minoritaire qui vit dans la seule province Francophone avec une mentalité qui lui est propre et un environnement spécifique aux Québécois fort différent des canadians."

    Most of this is spot on, but what you need to understand is that yes, Quebec is unique, but so is every other Canadian province. You think Ontarians have the same culture as Albertains? Or Nova Scotians as BCers? Quebec isn't the center of the universe buddy. For someone who seems to claim that language isn't everything you seem to lump people of the same language together quite nicely just to prove your point. By your logic I could say that Quebec, France and Haiti (and any other French-speaking nation) are all the same. Would that be fair? Of course not. We all know Quebec culture is unique. We're well aware of it and acknowledge it (and I love it). Yet you still fail to acknowledge the possiblity that anglos are no longer some globally-encompassing race called the English.

    "Parfois il est important de remettre les pendules a l'heure pour ceux qui ont un sens de l'observation atrophié que ça te plaise ou non."

    Your analysis of Canadian cultures (and all English-speaking cultures really) is simplistic and insulting, so I don't think I'll be coming to you for a more "atrophie" opinion on the subject.

    ReplyDelete
  61. "Tu vois beaucoup de feuilles d'érable flottée sur Montréal?"

    Yup, I can count at least 10 large Canadian flags on my short walk from work to Place Bonaventure. Not to mention the huge amount of souvenir stores that sell tons of Canada, Quebec, and Montreal oriented products.

    ReplyDelete
  62. "What are you still doing in a country whose reality is so different?"

    Monsieur le polonais,que faites-vous de l'Europe?
    Vous êtes allergique a la diversité ou quoi?

    ReplyDelete
  63. Why is french better for Quebec ?

    Pourquoi l'anglais est mieux pour les anglais?

    Pourquoi les chinois est mieux pour les Chinois?

    Pourquoi l'allemand est mieux pour les Allemands?

    Pourquoi....Je ne ferai pas le tour des nations,Je crois que vous comprenez.

    Parceque le Québec est une Nation Francophone et que nous en sommes fières sauf quelques-uns comme vous qui comme Elvis Gratton aurait aimé être un ammmarrricain,quel gros colon insignifiant.

    En passant pas besoin de "green card" pour l'ontario et ce n'est qu'a quelques kilomètres.

    ReplyDelete
  64. "Parceque le Québec est une Nation Francophone et que nous en sommes fières"

    On this map, please point out a country of Quebec:

    http://world-wall-map.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Kids-World-Map.jpg

    ReplyDelete
  65. 50 years ago, the Francophones* of Quebec started talking about a country of Quebec. 50 years later, we are still waiting for this country to appear on the map. That can only mean a few things:

    1. The "Francophones" are a bunch of incompetent bunglers
    2. The "Francophones" are a bunch of cheap whores who sold their ideals for 8 billion $ a year
    3. The "country" is just a pipe dream of an insignificant fraction of the populace ("Francophones") that is fanatically devoted to the cause with little regard for reality (sort of like feminists who won the right to vote for women 90 years ago, but the feminist movement persists and constantly invents new "social injustices" to justify the existence of the movement)
    4. The idea of the country is just a bluff designed to blackmail and extract favors from another country

    (Francophone* to a French-speaker is like a feminist to a woman, a gay to a homosexual, or a union rep to a worker – one is a human characteristic of language, gender, sexual orientation, profession - an ideologically neutral concept, the other is a political construct designed to extract privileges for a group of people united around a common trait. This trait can be completely arbitrary)

    “Socialism is a system that heroically overcomes obstacles that it heroically invents” – Stefan Kisielewski

    ReplyDelete
  66. "50 years ago, the Francophones* of Quebec started talking about a country of Quebec. 50 years later, we are still waiting for this country to appear on the map..."

    Vous n'êtes pas très rapide et vous posez beaucoup trop de questions.Nous sommes un pays avec ses propres règles et avons conservé les avantages d'une province avec les bénéfices financiers qu'elle procure.Mais shhhhh!Ne le dites a personne,d'autres pourraient vouloir nous imiter....Shhhhh!

    ReplyDelete
  67. @Adski

    "On this map, please point out a country of Quebec:"

    Et voila!

    http://s1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb352/interima/?action=view&current=Kids-World-Map.jpg

    Si vous avez d'autres questions d'ordre géographique,n'hésitez surtout pas.

    ReplyDelete
  68. @AngloBuster
    Being proud hardly brings anyone bread and butter. Being intelligent and look at what surrounds you is way smarter. We can't reinvent the wheel.

    When you're done being proud of your wannabe country with an unproductive language, moronic unions and laws, please work and pay taxes.

    ReplyDelete
  69. "...please work and pay taxes..."

    Je travaille Depuis plus de 20 ans et j'ai créé ma propre entreprise.Ne vous en faites pas je paye mes taxes et mes impôts.Lorsque cela ne me conviendra plus de contribuer pour notre système,je vais changer de province ou de pays,pas les gens qui m'entourent.
    Pour l'instant ça me va!Point a la ligne.

    ReplyDelete
  70. @Jason

    I hope to be able to pay you a beer at "Cheval Blanc" one day.

    @AngloBuster
    Maybe, but most people around here are Lazy Bums. I've been fairly active arguing and giving shit to "Ministère de la famille". I'm probably more implicated in the well being of the kids than you'll ever be.

    I'm just sick of the system.

    I don't know how old you are, but, I'll move out before being scammed by RRQ. If you are a babyboomer, I hope the buffet will be nice enough. Don't forget to lick the plates before leving so you are sure we get nothing.

    i'd pay you a beer, but you sound like a Molson drinker.

    ReplyDelete
  71. No i'm not a babyboomer and i don't drink any beer at all,thanks.Also i'm wondering why two French guys like us have a discussion in english...Weird hey?
    Never see two english guys debate in French on this blog.Are we really living in a bilingual country ?

    ReplyDelete
  72. 1/2

    You know, Bill 101 can in many ways be compared to racial segregation in the United States prior to the civil rights movement. For instance, when we see "bilingual" signs anywhere in Quebec, French is usually bigger, right? Well, in my view, this can be compared to the old law in Alabama in which blacks had to sit on the back of the bus. People could have argued (and I think they have, actually)"does your sitting position really matter? I mean, you'll be getting to your destination anyways, no?" Regarding bilingual signs, one can just say "Why does it matter that French has to be predominant? I mean, at least you're allowed to post another language of your choice!". Brent Tyler has called this "The Rosa Parks Syndrome".

    This dogma of "protecting the French language" is just like when whites used to justify racial segregation by claiming that the white race needed to be purified and reserved or the ultra-conservative Hispanophobes in the US who keep telling us that they're taking away all the jobs away from Americans. Ethnocentrism should never be tolerated, EVER!That's right you septards, I just compared you to white supremacists in the Confederacy

    EVEN if French truly was in danger, I would rather see a language die than to give up a freedom protecting it, just like I'd rather be attacked by terrorists on a daily basis rather than any of my rights to a "security" legislation.

    ReplyDelete
  73. 2/2

    Mr. Editor, in order to truly expose these ethnocentric nationalist, fascist Nazis, is to debunk their most repeated claims which have over the years become an indisputable truth.

    We all know that the French language was never in danger prior to Bill 101. The Gendron Commission, which was the foster chil for Bou Bou's Bill 22 and later Bill 101, claims that French Quebecers spoke English as much as French at work, sometimes even more, but this is because they worked with a global clientele, rather than a local Quebec one. It also stated that the language was nowhere near in danger among French Quebecers and the only reason most immigrants adapted to the English speaking community is, as you point out in your video, because they did not have a choice! The Catholic Church would not permit non-Catholics from attending French schools. If the seppies want to blame anyone, it should be the Roman Catholic church for having misled them for centuries, for discouraging them to take part in the economy and their destiny is to be a farmer population. Mr. Editor, I think a greater documentation of these facts need to be shown on this blog.

    Figured show that in 1970 11% of signs were in English only and 35% of signs were in French only:
    "A 1970 survey by Guy Labelle estimated that 35% of the commercial signs in metropolitan Montreal were in French only and 11.8% in English only"
    -Marc V. Levine, "The Reconquest of Montreal: Language Policy and Social Change in a Bilingual City", page 200

    It's so sad, really, that Quebec chose the way of coercion in order to achieve its goals to maintain a French face for Quebec, to create classes of citizens and discrimination based on language. Quebec is North America's most backwater society with no improvement in sight.

    ReplyDelete
  74. Correction. In my first post, I meant to say: "just like I would rather be attacked by terrorists on a daily basis than surrender any of my rights for a " security" legislation."

    ReplyDelete
  75. > Je répète ma question : Que faites vous donc ici?

    Votre question serait intéressante quoiqu’elle soit en même temps fort offensante.

    En deux mots : j’habite ici. Vous aussi semblez vouloir changer notre société afin qu’elle se rende officiellement moins Canadienne et plus à votre image. Moi aussi j’ai le droit de vouloir la rendre plus fière des atouts dont elle jouit, ce qui est mon droit. Jamais je n’aurais osé vous demander pourquoi vous n’alliez pas vivre en France si vraiment votre désir était de vivre dans un vrai pays francophone.

    Mon pays, c’est le Canada. Le Québec, c’est au Canada. Et Montréal (là où j’habite), c’est à la fois au Québec et au Canada. Je ne souhaite pas vivre dans un univers unilingue (loin de là !), que ce soit anglophone ou francophone.

    Je préconise tout simplement une refonte de notre législation linguistique sur la base de l’égalité de deux grandes langues. Gardons en place l’Office Québécois de la langue française pour tout ce qui est terminologie – il s’agit d’un travail important et nécessaire à la survie du français que d’assurer que le lexique réponde aux besoins changeants et grandissants de la société. Mais débarquons au plus sacrant ces inspecteurs qui se promènent rubans à mesurer en main pour s’assurer que la grosseur des caractères qui apparaissent sur des affiches « dans une autre langue » ne contreviennent pas au ratio sacrosaint.

    > Est-ce que je vais aller m'installer en ontario et chiâler,perdre mon énergie (pour une cause perdue d'avance) le reste ma vie parcequ'ils ne parlent pas assez Français?

    Je n’en sais rien. Mais vous semblez chialer et perdre votre énergie à votre tour pour donner désespérément crédibilité à une cause perdue d’avance. Au Québec, environ 80% des habitants sont francophone depuis même les jours où Montréal était la métropole du pays et dirigée par une bourgeoisie anglo-écossaise dont vous semblez toujours craindre le spectre. D’abord on craignait les sauvages amérindiens. Ensuite il fallait craindre les anglos. La dernière lubie semble vouloir qu’on craigne une « déloyauté » de la part des immigrants venus s’établir ici. On craint, on craint, on craint. Si on craignait notre propre ignorance et petitesse comme on craint (à raison) les gaz de schiste, on serait mieux partis.

    Montréal s’anglicise ? Peut-être. En même temps, il s’arabise, se hispanise, se pendjabise, se vietnamise, se sinise, s’islamise, se hindouise… bref, il se pluralise. Et on se doit non seulement de s’ouvrir à ces nouvelles gens, mais aussi de s’ouvrir au monde. Il faut aligner les astres. Et ça passe par accorder le respect égal qui revient naturellement à nos deux langues mondiales d’envergure.


    > Si vous avez d'autres questions d'ordre géographique,n'hésitez surtout pas.

    Créativité et révisionnisme (pour ne pas dire hallucinations) séparatistes en matière de géographie et d’histoire semblent aller de pair. Après avoir passé par supercherie et jeu d’émotion, les séparatistes constateront qu’il est tout aussi difficile de faire gober un pays imaginaire créé à l’aide de Photoshop à ceux qui ont peu de patience pour leurs niaiseries.


    > Never see two english guys debate in French on this blog.Are we really living in a bilingual country ?

    Never seen two French guys debate in English over at Louis Préfontaine’s either. Hmm…

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  76. “Nous sommes un pays avec ses propres règles et avons conservé les avantages d'une province avec les bénéfices financiers qu'elle procure.Mais shhhhh!Ne le dites a personne,d'autres pourraient vouloir nous imiter....Shhhhh!”

    At least you admit that you have perpetrated a sort of a scam. The type where one country sends another country 8 billion $ a year without getting anything in return. Imagine Germany wiring 8 billion $ each year to France? Brazil funneling 8 billion to Argentina? Japan donating 8 billion to Korea? It doesn’t happen anywhere, except in Canada.

    But look at the downside. The price you have to pay is that you have no currency, no citizenship, no army, no seat at the UN, and no presence on the map. And this means that nobody beyond Canada even knows about you, and nobody within Canada takes you seriously. Even in Quebec, the non-Francophones treat you as a minority.

    In the current set up, you may think that you are a country that screwed another country in into funding it, but in fact you are nothing but a minority. A privileged minority, I’ll give you that, but a minority nonetheless, and that’s how you are seen and treated. So don’t come crying that nobody takes you seriously.

    ---

    “Gardons en place l’Office Québécois de la langue française pour tout ce qui est terminologie – il s’agit d’un travail important et nécessaire à la survie du français que d’assurer que le lexique réponde aux besoins changeants et grandissants de la société.”

    Really? Does the “necessary and important” part include the policing powers of the OQLF, which give it the right to raid school boards and cite them for English keyboards? Raid pubs, small business? To be a governmental agency set up to nurse the insecurities of the populace at the expense of the taxpayer? C’mon.

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  77. "The type where one country sends another country 8 billion $ a year without getting anything in return."

    Vous auriez dû nous laisser partir en 1995 mais au lieu de ça,vous êtes sortis dans la rue a grand coup de "nous vous aimons" et bien payez maintenant!De plus 8 milliards pour s'acheter un peu de prestige,ça représente quoi après tout?

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  78. "At least you admit that you have perpetrated a sort of a scam."

    Not a sort of scam...A scam.

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  79. > Really? Does the “necessary and important” part include the policing powers of the OQLF […]

    Your perspicacity is usually spot on; I’m floored that you didn’t read my paragraph through to the end, in which I write:
    “ […] Mais débarquons au plus sacrant ces inspecteurs qui se promènent rubans à mesurer en main pour s’assurer que la grosseur des caractères qui apparaissent sur des affiches « dans une autre langue » ne contreviennent pas au ratio sacrosaint. ”

    > Imagine Germany wiring 8 billion $ each year to France? Brazil funneling 8 billion to Argentina? Japan donating 8 billion to Korea? It doesn’t happen anywhere, except in Canada.

    Actually, it happens all over the world. It’s called foreign aid, and it’s the practice whereby a donor country voluntarily transfers money or other resources to another. When it’s done to the tune of billions of dollars a year, one wonders whether a less respectful name for the practice might be more fitting… [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_policy_of_the_United_States#Aid]

    > The price you have to pay is that you have no currency, no citizenship, no army, no seat at the UN, and no presence on the map […]

    … thus feeding directly into the neat paradigm of perpetual self-victimization required to secure a good showing at the next election.

    When you think about it, it’s actually a no-lose proposition if your objective is to ensconce yourself into a cushy job with sweet benefits and minimum accountability. The Bloc Québécois, to name but one example, has been riding that gravy train for twenty years now killing any effective representation of our demographic and democratic weight to form and hold influence within a Federal government. Instead of being called out on the their charade by an often unforgiving electorate, they’re still able to adequately convince just over three out of eight Quebecers to keep allowing them to do more of the same.

    (I can already hear the cranky guy from Mississauga chiming in in my mind who would repeat for the umpteenth time how a Canada-first party with a get-tough-on-Quebec-approach is what’s called for.)

    > Even in Quebec, the non-Francophones treat you as a minority.

    Make that the non-separatists.

    And there’s nothing wrong with being a minority, so maybe a term that expresses your dismissive derision on the specific dogma being talked about would be better suited here.

    I say this as a part ethnic French-Canadian (who isn’t ashamed to use the label), who doesn’t feel like a minority. Then again I don’t spend much time thinking about how French or English or “Other” I feel or am labeled by others on a given day. I go earn money instead – in multiple languages – and am grateful that this is still a great place to do it.

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  80. "It doesn’t happen anywhere, except in Canada."

    Pas pour rien que vous êtes le meilleur pays au monde sans oublier votre légendaire générosité.
    Moi je crie haut et fort "Vive le Canada!".

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  81. Apparatchik, you’re right, you did address the policing powers of the OQLF later in your post. My bad.

    Re: the foreign aid analogy, it’s sort of like this, but not quite. Foreign aid, for one, is not granted by one state to another on regular annual basis, and it’s never granted as a result of some backdoor political deal, or as a pay-off to keep someone happy.

    I think that in the current scheme, both Canada and Quebec are losers to a certain extent. Both need each other, for different reasons – Quebec for its economy and Canada for its territorial integrity, but both lose – Canada, financially and by living in constant uncertainty, and Quebec by never realizing its desire for statehood.

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  82. > Foreign aid, for one, is not granted by one state to another on regular annual basis, and it’s never granted as a result of some backdoor political deal, or as a pay-off to keep someone happy.

    In theory it isn’t (and shouldn’t), but in practice, I think it’s practically the rule and not the exception. Call me cynical, but I call ‘em like I see ‘em.

    And I see no reason for America to have given billions for years to strongmen in places like Egypt or Pakistan or even Israel if it didn’t serve some kind of political, military, economic, or other generally strategic objective. The Marshall Plan was certainly aimed at helping post-WWII Europe. But (perhaps more cynically, I ask) what stake did America have in rebuilding Western Europe if not to ultimately have viable trading partners that it could maintain within its own (i.e. non-Soviet) sphere of influence?

    At the same time, I don’t think that conflating federal transfers with foreign aid is entirely apt, since the system was practically designed to work this way from the get-go. It becomes extortion when we literally demand a few billion dollars up front or we’ll make the government fall…

    > I think that in the current scheme, both Canada and Quebec are losers to a certain extent.

    They’re only losers inasmuch as they’ve been unable to capitalize on what could be better exploited as assets.

    > Both need each other, for different reasons – Quebec for its economy and Canada for its territorial integrity […]

    True, but this compromise (interestingly, I think) hasn’t changed much since Confederation. In fact, if Canada has a federative structure at all, it’s because our French-Canadian forefathers believed it was the only way to preserve their language and culture. Canada could easily have had an internal structure like France or Britain had our founders not expressly recognized the need to satisfy Quebec in this way. Which kind of brings me to your last point.

    > […] both lose – Canada, financially and by living in constant uncertainty, and Quebec by never realizing its desire for statehood.

    English Canada is filled with regional variety just as Quebec is. Toronto is nothing like Flin Flon, and St Tite is nothing like Montreal. Toronto has certain overlaps with Montreal, just as Kuujjuaq shares certain things in common with Iqaluit.

    A deeper examination needs to be done – both collectively as well as individually – on what this country is about. And it needs to be done in the most un-partisan way possible.

    Quebec has been umming and awing over independence for a long time, which means its supposed desire for statehood is neither as necessary nor as urgent as proponents have periodically claimed. “Sh*t or get off the can” isn’t even the right expression after 250 years. English Canada fares no better with its own attempts to inspire some kind of non-kitschy Canadiana that is both distinct from Uncle Sam and believable enough not to sound as though it’s trying so hard it must be compensating for something awfully tiny.

    In the end some will say that it is because both sides are at different stages of some national consciousness that the two are irreconcilable or that without some well-concocted noble lie that successfully fosters deep patriotism while rallying us around universal symbols that we are doomed to certain schism.

    I think that’s a load of crap. We can choose what unites us and what divides us. And I submit to you that it’s hardly as much about language or geography alone as certain pundits and party strategists with a program to pitch and peddle will have us believe.

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  83. Apparatchik, I appreciate your commitment to Trudeau’s vision of Canada. I, for one, am happy to see another attempt at social engineering (so typical of socialism) fail, as evidenced by low rates of bilingualism across the RoC (that Trudeau once decided should be completely bilingual), and high rates of bilingualism in Montreal (that Levesque once decided should be monolingual).

    But let’s not kid ourselves. This country is still together only because the Quebecois sold their ideals for 8 billion pieces of silver, while the rest of the country was not aware of all the intricacies involved in Ottawa’s handling of the Quebec issue. If only they knew, there might not have been a pro-Canada rally in downtown Montreal in 1995.

    Regarding our “founding fathers”, they were all pawns. Canada was a British colony at the time, and all the pertinent decisions were made in London, England. In the meantime, the real founding fathers were busy founding a real nation south of our border.

    I’ll admit that this country had a great potential back in the 1950’s. It could be a great country today if it took the right turn when it found itself at a crossroads. The right turn would have been a complete dissociation from Quebec and letting it be what it wants to be without a penny of contribution from the rest of the country. Canada, in the meantime, should have rallied around its commitment to small government, and remain fiscally conservative and economically liberal.

    But it didn’t take the right turn. Today, Canada is nothing but a socialist republic with big, arrogant, and intrusive government, the population taxed to the bone, a nation state of Quebec now a permanent fixture to be constantly appeased and nursed financially, and expensive social engineering schemes draining the budget. Not too mention an army of bureaucrats that contribute nothing to our everyday lives.

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  84. "Et voila!

    http://s1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb352/interima/?action=view&current=Kids-World-Map.jpg

    Si vous avez d'autres questions d'ordre géographique,n'hésitez surtout pas."

    Did you seriously just link a poorly photoshopped map on photobucket as evidence of something?

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  85. "Did you seriously just link a poorly photoshopped map on photobucket as evidence of something?"

    Cela représente le rêve de la moitié des Québécois...Les vrais.

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  86. "Did you seriously just link a poorly photoshopped map on photobucket as evidence of something"

    It's funny how parts of Labrador and Ontario are included in the map of Quebec. Whoever made it is not very geographically astute.

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  87. "Cela représente le rêve de la moitié des Québécois...Les vrais"

    Less than half of Quebecers are separatists at the moment. I almost fell out of my chair when I saw their dream of a Quebec state including parts of Ontario, including Toronto LMAOOOOOO

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  88. Looking at Quebec by population density gives you a better perspective and makes the seppies look even more ridiculous. If you ignore the red below and around the great lakes (which is US and Ontario), you end up with two red dots for the province of Quebec, one for Montreal and one for Quebec City, with patches of faint red in between the two cities, and some to the west and the east.

    http://www.learnquebec.ca/export/sites/learn/en/content/curriculum/social_sciences/sec_geography/resources/metropolises/metropole_images/carte_densite_quebec.jpg

    http://www.learnquebec.ca/en/content/curriculum/social_sciences/sec_geography/resources/metropolises/montreal.html

    So that’s what the seppies want to use to create a country. A mostly federalist city that’s increasingly (due to immigration) hostile to the idea of secession, plus a couple million farmers from the Regions.

    A great country that would be indeed. (No wonder that they haven’t separated yet).

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  89. Kiki est fâché?WOooooouuuuu...!Alors comment epliquez-vous l'arrivée prochaine de 2 partis indépendantistes au Québec?WOuuuuu....!
    Votre théorie ne tient pas la route,désolé!

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  90. "Kiki est fâché?"

    Word distortion used for lame name calling. See already we know we're dealing with someone with the maturity of a schoolyarder.

    "WOooooouuuuu...!"

    This is the type of thing 12-year-old kids write on youtube when they get in an argument with another poster. If your comment had any substance you wouldn't need useless filler like this.

    "Alors comment epliquez-vous l'arrivée prochaine de 2 partis indépendantistes au Québec"

    How do YOU explain Force Quebec then? New parties emerge and die all the time dude. And as I've said on another post, Charest getting kicked out has nothing to do with the sovereignty tendency of Quebec and everything to do with Charest's own incompetence.

    "Votre théorie ne tient pas la route,désolé!"'

    I don't think you should be critiquing others' theories. I'm sorry but somebody who posts a poorly photoshopped map of the world as evidence of something doesn't really hold much credibility.

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  91. Force Quebec?Ils sont morts dans l'oeuf.Vous ne suivez pas l'actualité Québécoise Jasonne?
    En passant mon commentaire s'adressait a kiki,a moins que vous ne soyez devenu la police morale de ce blogue,je vous suggère de répondre aux commentaires qui vous sont adressés.

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  92. "Force Quebec?Ils sont morts dans l'oeuf.Vous ne suivez pas l'actualité Québécoise Jasonne?"

    That was exactly my point you retard. The point was that parties pop up and die all the time. And love the extra "ne" on the end of my name. Very 3rd grade of you.

    "En passant mon commentaire s'adressait a kiki,a moins que vous ne soyez devenu la police morale de ce blogue,je vous suggère de répondre aux commentaires qui vous sont adressés."

    I can talk to who I want when I want thank you very much. And his name is adski by the way you illiterate clown. Oh no wait. You misspelt it on purpose thinking it was terribly clever didn't you? Classic 3rd grade humour again. Any other child-like qualities you wish to share with us?

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  93. Kiki et Jasonne forment un joli couple.
    C'est bien de défendre son petit copain...Grrrrr!

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