Tuesday, February 1, 2011

More Language Nonsense from Pierre Curzi

Last week Parti Quebecois language critic Pierre Curzi came out once again in favour of extending Bill 101 to Quebec cegeps (junior colleges,) and it appears that the separatist party is reluctantly moving towards that position, egged on by language militants and 'Chicken Littles' who are parroting the refrain that Quebec is in imminent danger of becoming as English as Ontario. LINK

Mr. Curzi's argument in favour of enforcing the language law is twofold, the first notion is that students who graduate from French high school and opt for English cegep, will magically transform into 'cursed' anglophones (a racist concept to begin with.) His second assertion is that the numbers of these 'turncoats' is alarming. LINK{fr}
Both ideas are utter tommyrot.

He references a self-serving 'sky is falling' study that he himself prepared, one which is fatally flawed, biased and scientifically unsound.  LINK{fr}

See my blog piece debunking his nonsense conclusions in another language study.

From this study, he builds from a false foundation to arrive at a similarly flawed logical conclusion.

Mr Curzi claims that about 3,500 Francophone and Allophone students (about half and half) who graduate French highs school opt for English cegep and that this fact, in and of itself, represents a danger to the French language. He further posits that when they finish their education they are more likely to accept an English-speaking job in Quebec, which will ultimately complete their descent into the hell of Anglicization.

Let us consider the alternate truth;

According to Mr. Curzi this means that an additional 135,000 students will have passed through  English cegep over the next 35 years.
Exactly how and why he chooses 35 years is as unfathomable, his rational that 35 years is the usual length of a career is about as relevant as the price of tea in China.
It's more likely that he chose this number to pump up the volume, he could have chosen 100 years, 10 years or 1 year.
Even at Mr. Curzi's own reference point, it's hardly a frightening scenario, even for language militants. The number represents about .005 percent of the population per year, or about 1.5% of the population over 35 years. Not exactly earth-shattering.

But let's keep it simple and discuss the 3500 students a year that opt for English cegep after having attended French high school.

Mr. Curzi intimates that these students will be 'lost' to the French side of the linguistic equation by virtue of their attendance at English cegep, but here's where Mr. Curzi conveniently ignores reality by failing to consider or refusing to accept the following;
  • Of the 3500 students, the majority are already bilingual (and already lost) before entering English cegep.
  • Of the 3500 students many are already eligible for English schooling under Bill 101 and have chosen French high school out of choice.
  • Of the remaining minority of 'bone fide' francophones who make the balance of the 3500 students, very few give up their linguistic heritage just because they learned English or have accepted an 'English' job.
How much these factors mitigate Mr. Curzi's contention that all these students are 'linguistically transferred' or lost to the French side is a matter of conjecture, because no data really exists. I would suggest that the number is exceedingly small.

Again, let's consider some other truths; (I'll refer to these above-mentioned students as 'the 3500')

Most of the 3500 who Mr. Curzi refers to, are hardly francophones at all, about half are allophones and about half of the remainder are the children of French/English families who have chosen a French language path.

Almost one-third of Quebec anglophones choose a francophone or ethnic (or combination thereof) life partner, an amazing statistic that testifies to the fact that anglophones, francophones and ethnics get on pretty well.
Of these 'mixed' families about 65% of the children graduate from French high school, notwithstanding that ALL OF THEM are eligible for English education.

At any given time, almost 13% of all English-eligible students attend FRENCH school, by choice. 
(Readers can attest to this fact in the comments section. Please do.)

But going to French school doesn't change the fact that one of the parents of these mixed couples is English and almost all these children are BILINGUAL, based on their two-language home life. For these children going to English cegep makes sense, their parents keen that their bilingual children have the best of both worlds.
And so, sadly for Mr. Curzi, applying Bill 101 to cegeps, would not affect these students, as THEY ALREADY QUALIFY for English schooling and would continue to attend English cegep even if Bill 101 was extended to cegep!
You can safely knock out a significant number of the 3500 as being affected by Bill 101.

As for the balance of the 3500, how many have already chosen English as a language path before entering cegep? Well, almost all of them, to be sure......

The vast majority of students who hail from all-francophone families and who have attended public French school all their lives, cannot attend English cegep because they cannot speak English.
Students graduating from the French public system are generally unable to order breakfast in English, let alone successfully attend classes in English.
That is why 96% of these students go on to French colleges and universities.

It is only the already bilingual graduates of French high schools who have the capacity to go to English cegep, a fact that is never considered by Mr. Curzi.
If he thinks that dissuading these already bilingualized students from attending English cegep will forestall their ability to work in English he's a day late and a dollar short, that ship, as they say, has already sailed.

Most of the allophone students (half of the 3500) who opt for English cegep are already firmly assimilated in the anglophone community. According to MR. Curzi's own figures, 39% (or about 600 of the 3500) of them already speak English in the home, notwithstanding the fact that they were forced to attend French schools as per Bill 101. These are the students who talked English among their friends at recess (much to the chagrin of teachers) and who lived their lives completely in English outside school.
Recovering these students to the French side by virtue of forced French cegep is well nigh impossible, they've maintained their English language and culture for over a dozen years during French primary and high school. The die is already cast.

Of the remaining students of the 3500, who are bone fide francophones and who have chosen cegep  in order to become bilingual, what proof does Curzi offer us that they will become anglophones? Its my observation, that for those who have lived their entire school and home life in French, learning a second language and even working in a second language will not magically turn them into anglophones.

Just because a bilingual francophone speaks English at work, doesn't mean that he or she has abandoned French at home. Actually far from it. Remember, their children must still attend French school and in almost all cases the language of the home is French.

So how many students are actually being 'linguistically' transferred to English because of the open door policy of admissions at English cegeps?

Impossible to say, either for me or Mr. Curzi. There is no usable data available.

Mr. Curzi intimates that the number is 100% of the 3500, a ridiculous notion.

Me, if I'd have to pick a number, it would be less than one hundred, no more. Really.

Now consider this;

Almost two thousand students who graduate from English high schools choose to go to French cegep, of their own volition. A reverse 'language transfer' if we were to accept Mr. Curzi's logic.

Do these anglophones magically turn into francophones by virtue of the French cegep experience? Hardly.
But if Mr. Curzi was honest and applied his logic evenly across the board he'd have subtracted these students from the the number transferring to English cegep. Fair is fair.

Somehow I doubt that will happen.....

Here's an interesting  comment written under the Montreal Gazette story concerning the issue of imposing Bill 101 on English cegeps;
I am a child of bill 101. My parents are immigrants, came to Quebec 45 years ago.

I went to school in French (elementary and high school). I then chose to go to Marianopolis (English) and McGill (english). I had a choice between engineering at McGill in English or at Ecole Polytechnique in French (I got accepted to both) but opted for McGill due to the better reputation. While at McGill, i took the opportunity to study two courses at Polytechnique. The only french aspect to engineering courses was putting a french spin on non-french words and units.

I then went to grad school, in french, at HEC. The freedom to flip back and forth between french and english schools (starting in CEGEP) allowed me to develop my language skills and writing skills in both languages, making me a tremendous asset to my employer.

I spend my days correcting my colleagues and supervisors' emails. And the worst of them are the ones written, IN FRENCH, by unilingual, FRANCOPHONE QUEBECOIS. You know, the "pur laine".

Lets keep this province in the dark ages, keep voting for PQ and keep sacrificing our economic prosperity to preserve an archaic, destitute form of "french". Lets keep blaming the English language for all the ineptness of the francophone "leaders" of this province (nation har har). LINK

And so, good readers... every time you hear a French language militant quoting statistics invoking the spectre of French language doom, you can safely stick your fingers in your ears and shout;

"LA-DEE-DA!.......LA-DEE-DA!.... I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

It is all self-serving crap. Balderdash!

It's the same logic that militants use to remind us that Quebec gets a raw financial deal from Canada.

It just ain't so!......but hey, I'm only one voice in the wilderness....

Further reading Does Going to French School Make You a Francophone?

54 comments:

  1. BRAVO for your excellent post! Pierre Curzi is a poor man who doesn't know what to come with after trying to stop Paul McCartney from showing up to Quebec anniversary... you might know what I am talking about? What a loser, that Pierre Curzi. Another dumb Quebec politician. BRAVO! BRAVO! :0)

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  2. It is really hard to believe that the people in Quebec swallow the line of BS from Curzi and his fellow seppies. Same thing for Duceppe and his false accusations and rhetoric about how bad Quebec is treated financially by the ROC as in Duceppes ridiculous attempt at exhorting 5 billion dollars from Ottawa, or else, as the editors last post clearly evidences. Curzi and others of his ilk are fabricating lies to further their own agenda that the "THEY SKY IS FALLING IN".

    Hopefully, Quebecers will wisen up before these assholes completely alienate Quebec from the ROC with obvious deleterious consequences for Quebec. Unfortunately, I doubt this will happen as they have managed to keep the common people ignorant as to the real facts and truths.

    Very sad.

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  3. I think we might be reaching a climax in all of this. The next elections will be very interesting.

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  4. Since students generally attend CEGEP in their 17 and 18, they are adults in the age of majority. That ban, if applied, will surely turn into human rights lawsuits in no time.

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  5. I agree totaly with the idea of extending Bill 101 to CEGEP. The next step will be anglo universities. But the strategy will be different.

    The fact is that the historic part of anglo community count for 5.6 % of Québec population but has 27 % of public funding. It's unacceptable and there is a new generation of Québécois that does not accept the anglo community has privileges.

    One day we will finance anglo universities, and hospitals, in proportion to the historic part of the anglo community, which is 5.6 %. No less, no more. A mature and confident society can not accept the present situation.

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  6. "they cannot speak English"....

    correction : They don't like to speak it. Secondly they are not from English families and thirdly they learn "English as a second language". Fourthly being from a catholic faith they are not "attached" to the language as the Anglos are too abrasive in Quebec and makes your language to be disliked.

    Before the "SKI WILL FALL IN" your ass will fall out.

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  7. Students of French are lazy, cannot read an entire book, don't make any efforts at all. This is typical canadian. Canadians are lazy. It's a fact of life. WHile it costs too much to be educated in England here our students don't care. I think we should have private school again with Latin and Greek, excellent history classes and more general notions. Computer science which is a skill only, yes a skill, not a serious education is taking over the world everywhere..... OUCH!

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  8. Protecting a language is a human right, an intellectual right. If Quebecois want to speak English at their pace, you cannot force them to hurry.

    1) They are at home, their homeland and they were there since 400 years, yes 400 years. So live and let live.

    2) If they prefer to be bilingual French-Spanish, French Quebecois-French-France,(which demands to study), French-Italian, or French-Portuguese, let them be. Their future may be not with the rest of Canada, while you are beckering.

    Remember: your next language cold war will be over Chinese. In Toronto you have to change the language feature from Chinese to English when you go to a Bank machine since the last 10 years.

    So, you can loath who you want, despise the Nation, implicate they are worthless, but your next war will be over numbers, that you will like, and the Francos will laugh.

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  9. "Just because a bilingual francophone speaks English at work, doesn't mean that he or she has abandoned French at home. Actually far from it. Remember, their children must still attend French school and in almost all cases the language of the home is French."

    You cannot highjack a mother tongue IDIOT !
    This article is as poor as the others... it is a fraude and it stimulates sophisms with people who cannot make any distinction between legitimate rights, nor racism.

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  10. Les cegeps doivent entretenir le français, sinon la qualité de la langue se brise. Même l'anglophonie se moque des francophones qui sont apprauvis de par la qualité de la langue française, une langue capricieuse qui s'érode trop facilement.
    Vive la langue française.
    Je reproche à madame Marois de ne pas faire d'effort pour impliquer le Lycée de France (qui est à Toronto) et la Sorbonne (qui fait quelques liens par le biais de l'Université de Montréal.)

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  11. This is why partition of Quebec at the earliest is feasible. Let them keep their french language while we keep our money, land and Hydro electricity in Canada

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  12. "that does not accept the anglo community has privileges. "

    "Privileges" must be a euphemism for general demand and popularity.

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  13. When I arrived here in 1998, I was told simply by Anglos to leave, there is no future here. For seven profitable years out of eight, I proved them wrong by running my own consulting business
    And I still do not believe them, however, there are a few who will do everything they can to prevent your advancement however (a few bullies, and sometimes Judges). See what I posted to the Marche pour l'abolition de la loi 101 FB page:

    RE: discrimination based on language at the Caisse de Défauts, Mr (copy and pasting text from decision, page 16): Le lendemain, 9 septembre, messieurs Lussier et Roy rencontrent monsieur
    Shebbeare pour mettre fin à leur relation. Ils lui disent que son travail ne pose pas deproblèmes sur le plan technique, mais qu'il ne s'intègre pas bien dans l'équipe et qu'il ne se fera pas d'amis. Monsieur Shebbeare était conscient qu'il ne se ferait pas d'amis
    en tant que policier des bases de données, mais il est bouleversé par cette tournure des événements. Il ne tente pas d'argumenter avec eux parce qu'ils ne comprennent rien. Il leur dit simplement: «OK, fine, whatever, l'm leaving. » En quittant la rencontre, monsieur Sheb. voit et entend monsieur Roy, content de lui-même, dire à monsieur Lussier comment il est facile de mettre dehors les Anglais. Monsieur Lussier répète ces termes sur un ton amusé. Monsieur Shebbeare est blessé par ses propos racistes, à son sens.

    You can read her entire biased, unprofessional, anglophobic decision here: http://cid-49b6e513e0dde7b8.photos.live.com/self.aspx/The%5E_Caisse%5E_de%5E_Defauts%5E_ExtremeConsulting%5E_InternalControls%5E_Failure%5E_ShootingTheMessenger%5E_SurvivingAsTheWhistleBlower%5E_GovernmentSuingTheCDPQ/decisCRTsept2010.PDF?sa=774365143

    It is practically impossible to integrate within QC govt workplaces on a permanent basis - they are rampant with blatant anti-professional psychological harassment, disrespectful of their own codes of ethics (Macleans was correct, and surveys in LaPresse confirm thsi too)- and as you can see with Louis Verdone's decision in the link above, if you try and save us all from losing Billions in retirement money at the Caisse - you will get told from the big mediocrity babies who think they can decide everything for you, that you 'nobody asked you to create that document' detailing the LaCaisse.com 's audit failure. My God, who asked a Judge how to do the job a Database Administrator (You know Madame Verdone, since you have banned my document - at least the public can read the one Microsoft published, which says much the same thing between the lines: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/gg483744
    Nota Bene: hint, hint, attempting to thwart my freedom of expression, a constitutional right, even within the workplace - by banning a document indicating how bad the 'Laissez-allez' was at the Caisse de Dépôt prior to the public announcement of the $47BN loss in 2009 for the prior year - only leads to failure Madame.

    Harper and his redneck govt has been ruining the Federal Civil Service in much of the same way - forcing ideology onto Stats Can and a long list of (go to Liberal.ca and look up Hit List)L http://danmcteague.liberal.ca/media/meet-the-tory-hit-list/
    The dumbing down of Canada and the revision of history have become stable voter feed for these political parties. Let us bring Canada out of the gutter and vote in the Liberal Party of Canda back - it has been five years of going nowhere with the Harper minority, thank you very much. Bonne soirée-journée.

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  14. Good to see that the bigots on both sides of the argument are out in force. I am not anti French, nor Anti Quebec. I'm not anti anything except racism and bigotry, of which we have plenty in Quebec.

    "Protecting a language is a human right, an intellectual right. If Quebecois want to speak English at their pace, you cannot force them to hurry"

    Next time read the article before you complain. The article discusses the futility of disallowing people to go to school in the language of their choice. You want to protect your right to speak French by removing others’ rights from speaking other languages. You call it protectionism, I call it racism. We can disagree on that point, although 6.6 billion - 6 million people would agree with me (maybe some ethnocentric societies like Iran and North Korea may agree with you). At no point did the Editor say that French students had to go to English Cegeps, he is saying the opposite. But you, if you did in fact read the article, didn't understand that. Likely because you are too bigoted or too stupid.

    "You cannot highjack a mother tongue IDIOT !"

    If this is in fact how you feel then why are you against English students going to English school? You're stupidity and racism are unimaginable.

    "I agree totally with the idea of extending Bill 101 to CEGEP. The next step will be Anglo universities. But the strategy will be different.

    The fact is that the historic part of Anglo community count for 5.6 % of Québec population but has 27 % of public funding. It's unacceptable and there is a new generation of Québécois that does not accept the Anglo community has privileges.

    One day we will finance Anglo universities, and hospitals, in proportion to the historic part of the Anglo community, which is 5.6 %. No less, no more. A mature and confident society can not accept the present situation."

    You are a retarded McGill hater. The Anglo community makes up more than 5.6% of Quebec and a much larger proportion of Montreal. And that is not counting the Allophones. What you describe as privileges are actually rights. But that isn't even the point. The majority of students come from abroad and pay higher tuitions than Quebecers. Also, that "27%" is spent in large part on French students who want a better education and French patients who want better care. "A mature and confident" person, or society, would not carry as much hate and racism as you.

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  15. "The fact is that the historic part of anglo community count for 5.6 % of"

    The fact is that this fact is wrong. 7.9% of Quebec's population descend from English stock.

    "anglo community count for 5.6 % of Québec population but has 27 % of public funding"

    Quebec has 25% of Canada's population and yet receives around 65% of the transfer payments. Quebec gets more money than it should, and yeah a portion of that extra cash will go to the Quebec anglos. Anglos aren't allowed disproportionate funding but Quebec is?. You can't just present one statistic whithout presenting it's counter point.

    "Students of French are lazy, cannot read an entire book, don't make any efforts at all. This is typical canadian. Canadians are lazy."

    People like you are single-handedly delaying human societal progression.

    "1) They are at home, their homeland and they were there since 400 years, yes 400 years. So live and let live"

    They are not at home. At least not in the sense that you mean it. Quebec was stolen from the natives by the French. And then the English stole it from the French. If I came to your house and stole 1000$ from your jewelry box or whatever, and in turn that money was stolen from me, do I have the right to say: "My money was stolen!"

    "In Toronto you have to change the language feature from Chinese to English when you go to a Bank machine since the last 10 years."

    Can anybody from Toronto verify this? Seems improbable.

    "implicate they are worthless"

    Implicating and implication is just as bad.

    "Just because a bilingual francophone speaks English at work, doesn't mean that he or she has abandoned French at home. Actually far from it. Remember, their children must still attend French school and in almost all cases the language of the home is French."

    You cannot highjack a mother tongue IDIOT !"

    So you quote the editor, follow up with a comment that AGREES with the quote, and then call him an idiot. You just gave me a nose bleed.

    "Les cegeps doivent entretenir le français, sinon la qualité de la langue se brise. Même l'anglophonie se moque des francophones qui sont apprauvis de par la qualité de la langue française, une langue capricieuse qui s'érode trop facilement.
    Vive la langue française.
    Je reproche à madame Marois de ne pas faire d'effort pour impliquer le Lycée de France (qui est à Toronto) et la Sorbonne (qui fait quelques liens par le biais de l'Université de Montréal.)"

    Excellent post and suggestions

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  16. Caisse de défaut, caisse de dépots, what were you doing there anyway ! a loud mouth like you, Nothing else could happen to you than being fired ! you should live in Toronto idiot!
    Nobody in Belgium is fighting the French, why here in Quebec ! The German in Belgium are taking there rank and they shut up. Why not you bunch of snotty snobs with no principals who are dreaming an impossible american dream with the liberal party ! ha ha ha

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  17. Dave:
    I don't care about the English learning English at all, I was referring to the French increasing the quality of French in Quebec. If your'not happy with the English in Quebec fax your ass to England.

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  18. "Nobody in Belgium is fighting the French, why here in Quebec"

    Quebec isn't a country ding-dong. One could easily say why is Quebec fighting English?

    "The German in Belgium are taking there rank and they shut up."

    So you in fact advocate that minorities should accept their fate and just go with the flow? But not in Canada? You do realize that Quebec is a minortiy in a much larger country right? So you come do the defence of Quebec and it's language laws that resist the language of the country's majority and yet advocate minorities accepting their position as a minority and "shut up" as you so elequently put it? I smell a hypocrite. Seems like you only advocate minorities shutting up if French is the dominant language....

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  19. "I was referring to the French increasing the quality of French in Quebec. If your'not happy with the English in Quebec fax your ass to England."

    So you say you aren't happy with the quality of French in Quebec. Then you tell someone you assume (make an ass of you) isn't happy with the quality of English to fax himself back to England?

    Let's review.
    - You assume he isn't happy with English here.
    - Because of this he should go back to England.

    - You make it know you aren't happy with the quality of French here.
    - You see where I'm going with this?....

    Not that I don't think Quebec needs to improve on it's French, because it is absolutely dreadful (especially the upcoming generation), but I think its important to highlight your ignorance and hypocracy.

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  20. "Seems like you only advocate minorities shutting up if French is the dominant language...."

    Ding ding Ding we have a winner, that sums up all those seppies coming and whining about language. Hypocrites and hate mongers in all their splendor.

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  21. Tropismes said...

    ‘Caisse de défaut, caisse de dépots, what were you doing there anyway ! a loud mouth like you, Nothing else could happen to you than being fired ! you should live in Toronto idiot! Nobody in Belgium is fighting the French, why here in Quebec ! The German in Belgium are taking there rank and they shut up. Why not you bunch of snotty snobs with no principals who are dreaming an impossible american dream with the liberal party ! ha ha ha’

    In Quebec when one presents a convincing argument that runs counter to the seppies dogma, as Editor did, you are met with childish insults like ‘snotty snobs with no priniciples'. You are told to live elsewhere. You are given irrelevant examples of other countries, which have no bearing on the situation in Canada. You are expected to overlook the fact that Quebec is a Canadian province like any other. You are expected to believe the fantasy that Quebec is an autonomous nation where Canadian laws and values are no longer welcome or legitimate. All dissenters are mocked and ridiculed for daring to disagree, and are cast as uncooperative agents of destruction. Comments like Tropismes’ are the same formulaic prattle that comes from the mouths of all seppiebots; meaningless and trite racist drivel posing as a patriotic hymn.

    People like Tropismes are poisonous, and their thoughts should be mentally dismissed and quarantined like a deadly pathogen.

    Good work editor. The fact that your blog continues to piss them off is a good indication of the effectiveness of your work. Keep it coming and your supporters will multiple.

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  22. "In Quebec when one presents a convincing argument that runs counter to the seppies dogma, as Editor did, you are met with childish insults like ‘snotty snobs with no priniciples'. You are told to live elsewhere. You are given irrelevant examples of other countries, which have no bearing on the situation in Canada. You are expected to overlook the fact that Quebec is a Canadian province like any other. You are expected to believe the fantasy that Quebec is an autonomous nation where Canadian laws and values are no longer welcome or legitimate. All dissenters are mocked and ridiculed for daring to disagree, and are cast as uncooperative agents of destruction. Comments like Tropismes’ are the same formulaic prattle that comes from the mouths of all seppiebots; meaningless and trite racist drivel posing as a patriotic hymn."

    Well said sir.

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  23. "Seems like you only advocate minorities shutting up if French is the dominant language...."

    Where French is predominant, the logic is: “There must be a common language for the sake of solidarity and unity. It isn’t good for social cohesion when many languages are in use, so we must promote one language. But which one? The one of the majority, of course.”

    Where French is in minority, the logic is: “Diversity is so beautiful. Let’s nurture the small languages and protect them from the “tyranny” of the dominant one. After all, if we kill one language, it’s like a part of us dies.”

    Most seppies don’t even notice this contradiction. They’ve compartmentalized their thinking to the point that such inconsistencies are actually logical.

    With the remaining ones that are aware of the contradiction, it's a matter of pure hypocrisy. Which isn't much better anyways.

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  24. What kind of drooling are you performing here ? not even verbal diarrhea, you are uncapable of it. Not smart enough to elaborate to say nothing.
    You can't speak French, we know that!
    stay in your world, live our world alone, you are a poor of mind, poor financially, you never work, you always write stupidity and you are worthless, you won't change the world.

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  25. If they weren't so stupidly obnoxious in their ignorance I'd feel sorry for Neanderthals like Tropismes, scuffing their knuckles as they shamble toward the inevitable abyss that the fulfillment of their separatist goals would result in. The hypocracy in his writing is breathtakingly obvious and yet he seems oblivious to it.
    As far as the Chinese language bank machines in Toronto. I've lived here my entire life and have never seen one although it's possible they exist in Chinatown or some parts of Markham. It's supply and demand, pal, if enough people would use them why not have them? Should we follow the Quebec model and tell them to f**k off and learn english?

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  26. Someone best check Curzi's BP:

    http://newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/February2011/01/c6714.html

    Kudos to Bréboeuf and Marianopolis colleges for setting up this interesting bilingual program.

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  27. LOL Diogenes.... oh my dear Diogenes... where do I begin?

    "You can't speak French, we know that!"

    a) Based on what? Your assumption (make an ass out of you...)
    b) He must know a good amount of French because he's constantly posting French links as sources to his arguments. I know I wouldn't post sources in a language I didn't know.
    c) This is pretty rich comming from someone who writes in English at a 10th grade level.

    "What kind of drooling are you performing here?"

    The grammar of this sentence hurts my brain.

    "you are uncapable of it. Not smart enough to elaborate to say nothing."

    a) based on what? your assumption? (make an ass out of you....)
    b) Not smart enough to elaborate? Excuse me Mr. Rant-A-Few-Words-Without-Arguments-Or-Proofs-Or-Nothing-Valid-To-Say.

    "stay in your world"

    We don't want to stay in our world. We want to open up to the world. Your faction is more the shut-in type.

    "live our world alone"

    What was that? The editor doesn't know French?

    "you are a poor of mind, poor financially, you never work"

    Based on what? Your assumptions? (make an ass out of you....)

    "you always write stupidity"

    So anything that disagrees with your opinion is stupidity? How very fascist of you.

    "you won't change the world"

    You know what else didn't change anything? 2 referendums.

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  28. Woops... that wasn't for Diogenes but rather for Ano 4:16 pm. My bad.

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  29. Within a 10 hour drive of Montreal, is a market of 100 million English speakers. Not being able to talk with them and encouraging uni-lingualism is sheer lunacy. Preserving one's language and culture is the responsibility of parents and family members, not the State. Example, I'd rather learn to cook a meal from a family member than a mandated state sponsored cooking class. If people freely decide to study in English, that should be their right. Being bilingual is an enriching experience that should be encouraged. People that advocate restricting the choices of adults should really consider getting a life.

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  30. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  31. "Within a 10 hour drive of Montreal, is a market of 100 million English speakers..."

    Alors que faites-vous ici?

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  32. Vous êtes tous des cons. Allez au diable et éloignez vous de la province qui est habitée par une Nation, oui une Nation. Vous ne méritez pas que l'on échange en anglais et vous méritez votre enfer, car c'est vous le diable !!!!!!
    EN FRANCAIS SEULEMENT<
    En français seulement, tas de merde !

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  34. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  35. "This post has been removed by a blog administrator."

    I think you shouldn't censor unless an individual is spamming for no reason. Letting the crazies vent can only make them look worse and do harm to their cause.

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  36. Jason you are a monster and you think you are an angel! You have the right to abuse, and you are protected by the bog. When the gloves are off you cry like a baby. This is typical from you anglos in Montreal.

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  37. Once again, we see multiple abusive comments from anonymous Quebecois militants. Outstanding. Their words speak for themselves, ignorant, deluded and hostile through and through. I'm with Jason, publish as many as you can, nothing discredits their beliefs more than their own words. They really do make no sense at all. It is utterly pointless talking to these sick, impenetrable people. I think it's sort of bonus that my very existence can enrage the Quebecois militants so much. I mean all that anger and hatred can't be good for their health, and with any luck it will shorten their miserable lives.

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  38. "I think you shouldn't censor unless an individual is spamming for no reason. Letting the crazies vent can only make them look worse and do harm to their cause."

    I agree with this post. Let them vent in their language. Rather humorous!!! They only show their arrogance and bigotry by their comments. After all, insults and name calling only indicate that they do not have any valid arguments and are incapable of any real intelligent dialogue.

    People such as these are stuck in caves with only a waning and dim torchlight as luminescence.

    Westerner

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  39. Try to sell your ideas like shoes on the street, see how popular it will be in Montreal !
    Free Speech !
    To: all of you Flinstones of the 2000

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  40. "Vous êtes tous des cons. Allez au diable et éloignez vous de la province qui est habitée par une Nation, oui une Nation"

    That's right, and they're called the first nations.

    "vous méritez votre enfer, car c'est vous le diable !!!!!!"

    By enfer do you mean Canada, a country internationally recognized as one of the best if not the best country to live in the world? And diable... really? Isn't that a bit much? Go see how much respect you get on the international stage when you're screaming "Canadians are the devil!"

    "En français seulement, tas de merde !"

    I'm glad you've decided to maintain a level of mutual respect so we could have an intelligent debate.

    "Your market, you make me shit ! people are not market idiots!"

    Huh? Make you shit?

    "The French bilingual are pissed on from the English."

    Lol no they're not you tard. The English want the French to be bilingual. How can one piss on one's own goal? That's like saying a sovereign Quebec would be pissed on by separatists.

    "The English bilingual wanted to be praised officially and they nag the French constantly."

    Excuse me? Ever heard of the PQ and BQ. They've turned nagging into a profssion my friend.

    "Fuck your bilinguilism charlie!"

    Yeah! Fuck learning new languages! Long live the stone age!

    "anyway there is nothing "enriching" except sports and beer with you anglos"

    Racist stereotype.

    "so you are cut off"

    Yes. We are cut off, yes. Our language is the lingua franca of the world and we are cut off, yes indeed.

    Our country allows freedom of choice for education, language, and religion... except for one province where you're forced to learn a specific language and get a fine if you speak or post a sign in another.

    "You always laugh at the French so fuck, yes fuck you"

    Elvis Gratton is a mainstream movie that explicitly rips on Canadians and was widely accepted by the public. Can you name an English movie that does the equivilant?

    "You little prick why can't you leave the world"

    Unfortunately the technology isn't available to me.

    "Nowhere else you will be tolerated. People will through you in jail for the kind of arrogance you have"

    Lol, yes of course. And Ghandi was a war monger

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  41. part 2

    "You are the one benefiting from the French and spitting at them."

    I work for a living and pay taxes that go into welfare so I am quite litterally not benefitting from them. In fact when nearly half my paycheck goes into taxes that pay for welfare bums I would defenitley say that I'm not benefitting from anything.

    And spitting at them? Excuse me? I dare you to find one quote of mine in the past 10 days that is racist or insulting to the French people. I'm dating and living with a French Quebecker by the way and have a French Quebecker roomate that I've been friends with since highschool. And oh yeah, both come from separatist families. Yup they don't come any more racist than me.

    Care to lie about anything else?

    And don't pretend to be English because you think your comment would carry more weight and have a larger effect on me. I can quite clearly see that you wrote to Jason DE Montreal

    "HAIL HITLER!"

    Wow... Hail Hitler. Nice name drop. Not relevant to your comment and doesn't prove anything, but good for you.

    And if you really want to play the Hitler game, here's one of his many famous quotes: Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it....

    "Je Me Souviens !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Vive le Quebec libre."
    seems to fit the category don't it?

    Now I'm not saying separatists are Nazis (and I'm sure you were ready to jump all over that one weren't you), far from it. I'm just showing you how your retarded logic can be reversed, which is what makes it a retarded logic in the first place.

    So for your own good I'll give you a hint. When debating, if you don't want to come accross as a retard, try not to project things.

    "You have the right to abuse"

    Lol I abuse? Again, go find a post of mine where I've "abused" someone who wasn't insulting first. The only thing I've done is call people retards when they just toss out nonsense. Otherwise I've been very polite and diplomatic.

    "and you are protected by the bog"

    Ah yes. That magical blog shield that protects me from bullets and lazer beams. Are you seriously that stupid? Protected by the blog.... how exactly am I "protected" by a blog?

    "When the gloves are off you cry like a baby"

    I'm sorry. I didn't realize you knew me on a personal level. I'm going to have to trust you on this as you're coming at it with no previous knowledge, which clearly makes you the most knowledgable person of my character when the gloves are dropped. But please resfresh my memory, when was it that we met in person and you wanted to throw down and I ran away? I'm afraid my memory doesn't remember hallucinations that well.

    "This is typical from you anglos in Montreal"

    Racist stereotype.

    My oh my. The "special people" are really making me work today.

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  42. "I mean all that anger and hatred can't be good for their health"

    Tout a fait le contraire.Nous adorons vous détester.Ce sera bientôt notre sport National.
    C'est pourquoi nous tolérons votre présence au sein de notre Nation car vous représentez nos têtes de Turcs sur lesquelles nous aimons bien frapper pour nous divertir.Pauvres anglouilles.

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  43. "Tout a fait le contraire.Nous adorons vous détester.Ce sera bientôt notre sport National."

    Only one problem with the above. You are not a nation, only a province and only part of a larger country that is predominately anglo. You keep forgetting that "vous pauvre petit Quebecois ". Ha ha...

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  44. Des gens comme vous abib 2:17, il faut s'en débarasser. Lorsque le Québec deviendra libre les Anglais qui ont des acquis resteront, car ils font des affaires avec des Québécois et se respectent mutuellement. Quant à des gens comme vous, des gens qui dépendent du travail des Québécois pour survivre vous devrez trouver un milieu anglais pour survivre. Vous détester n'en vaut même pas la peine, Bon débarras, c'est ce qui est urgent, de la cochonnerie comme toi, nous n'en voulons pas.... c'est comme l'Egypte !

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  45. "Bon débarras, c'est ce qui est urgent, de la cochonnerie comme toi, nous n'en voulons pas.... c'est comme l'Egypte !"

    Tiens,tiens...Linda...Pardon L-y-nda,la femme d'Elvis Gratton est de retour.Faisait beau en Florida Lynda?Beau tan ma chouette!

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  46. "Quant à des gens comme vous, des gens qui dépendent du travail des Québécois pour survivre vous devrez trouver un milieu anglais pour survivre..."

    Hein?De kossé?Ça va bien la tête?

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  47. Justement, lorsque vous serez partis, il n'y aura plus d'Elvis Gratton. L'anglais érode le français, le vieux français et le contemporain.

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  49. "Indigène"

    No such thing as an indigenous Francophone. You obviously have no sense of history and probably can't think your way out of a wet paper bag.

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  50. Very goo to Anonymous 10:55pm
    Ces gens-là n'en valent pas la peine, mais j'ai du mal à croire qu'ils soient si ignares de l'histoire, de notre pays et de notre langue.

    Le Québec devrait exiger des tests avec un rendement élevé, de la part de tous les anglophones. Ils devraient passer ces tests jusqu'à ce qu'ils aient au moins 80%. Sinon une pénalité de 2,000. devraient être imposer. Ces fonds pourraient aider la cause de la francophonie.
    comme le cantique que je chantais
    "Chez nous soyez Reine".

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  51. "Tiens,tiens...Linda...Pardon L-y-nda,la femme d'Elvis Gratton est de retour.Faisait beau en Florida Lynda?Beau tan ma chouette!"

    Yes by all means, quote an incredibly low-brow movie as your argument and prove my point from earlier:

    "Elvis Gratton is a mainstream movie that explicitly rips on Canadians and was widely accepted by the public. Can you name an English movie that does the equivilant?"

    Your quote is neither funny nor insulting to anyone. It just isn't. Many French people don't even find Bob Gratton funny. I'ts basically the equivilent of me calling you a poopoo caca face and then feeling proud about it.

    "Le Québec devrait exiger des tests avec un rendement élevé, de la part de tous les anglophones. Ils devraient passer ces tests jusqu'à ce qu'ils aient au moins 80%. Sinon une pénalité de 2,000. devraient être imposer"

    This has got to be one of the most disgusting suggestions I have ever seen presented by a separatist. For anyone who doesn't understand French, this charming individual has suggested that all anglophones (and Enlgish-speaking immigrants I guess) should be obligated to pass a French test, and if they fail to achieve a score of 80%, should be fined 2.000$. Would you also like us to start wearing little armbands with a maple leaf on them so that you can readily identify us in the streets?

    You know what's really brilliant about this, I was just reading today in a French newspaper, that the Quebec francophone high school dropout rate has just reached 12% (19% for boys and less than 10% for girls) wich is the highest dropout rating in Canada. Should Francophones have to pass a general knowledge test and pass at 80% or be fined 2000$? No. Of course not. This would be insulting, humiliating, and immoral.

    Your vision is so one-sided it's flabbergasting.

    "Ces fonds pourraient aider la cause de la francophonie."

    The French language isn't threatened. Get a clue.

    "comme le cantique que je chantais
    "Chez nous soyez Reine"."

    What in the hell are you talking about

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  52. It's a song, which was part of my French Education dude ! not your bag. Not your background. You are a foreigner. An idiot!

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  53. @ Jason,

    You really have to stop feeding the trolls. Feeding them will only make them stronger and strengthen their cause. You're stooping to their level by actually putting thought and effort in debunking their nonsense. The best solution is to just let them write their fascist rant, as distasteful as they may so that the whole world can see these people who they really are.

    In the end, they're the ones who will look like complete morons. I'm willing to bet that these Nazis are from Saguenay Lac Saint Jean!

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  54. If you are a minority inside another minority I wonder who is the "NAZI". Perhaps you live on the wrong side of the fence f....r

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