Wednesday, January 29, 2014

The Trouble with Sovereignty, Part 3....How Many Will Leave?

I'm going to write a slightly different post  today in which I'll make nary a prediction, because anyone who professes to know with any certainty how many Quebecers will leave towards Canada in the event of sovereignty is either deluded, or particularly full of themselves.

I think we can all agree that some Quebecers will choose to move, but there's no accurate way to know how many.
To my knowledge, there's been no real survey polling Quebecers over the issue and even if there was, I can't see it being very accurate because I'm not sure that the majority of people inclined to leave or on the fence have made up their mind with any degree of certainty.

Now those who are working tirelessly towards the goal of Quebec independance have done so with a certain blind faith that things will all work out, all I can say is good luck with that.
The PQ, and other nationalists have never published any sovereignty manifesto in which they outline a formula or plan to make Quebec a financially viable society after the split.

I'll let readers speculate as to why the sovereignty movement has never undertaken such an effort, but suffice to say that sovereigntists probably haven't really given it much thought, leading me to conclude that few have faith in the chances of sovereignty ever happening and hold onto the hope in the same vein as those awaiting the Rapture.
However, of those who are in blindly in favour of sovereignty the details aren't important, and they hope to cross that bridge when the time comes.
Hardly reassuring.

At any rate, let us return to the question about how many Quebecers will leave.

It is reasonable to say that in the event of sovereignty, the new country of Quebec will have some serious belt tightening to do, but unlike others, I'm not so pessimistic that it cannot be done, there remains so much fat in Canadian and Quebec budget that the effort is not impossible.

I'm going to write another post later on describing what Quebec can do to remain solvent post Canada and you'll probably be surprised that it is not mission impossible.
I know most readers will be surprised to read that opinion, but let's reserve judgment and leave that discussion until later.

But the fly in the ointment is the number of people who will leave, because if too many leave, nothing but nothing can be done to save the furniture, as they say in French.

I shall leave readers to speculate in the comments section as to how many Quebecers will go, but one thing we should consider is that after the initial exodus of those who won't stay in an independent Quebec under any circumstances, there'll be more who will stay to see how things work out and there lies the drama to be played out.
Clearly conditions in a post Canada Quebec will be a determining factor.

And so I want to draw your attention to a scenario that absolutely nobody dares discuss, the one in which Canada gives Quebec the ultimate shaft, once the negotiations are said and done and Canada and Quebec part company.

First, let us go back  to the American war of Independence, where after the colony's victory over the British, a certain number of colonists rejected the newly liberated country of the United States and chose to return to Great Britain or Canada, where over 50,000 people immigrated under generous conditions including a gift of 200 acres of farmland for each family.
These people were given the honorific of "United Empire Loyalist' and their Quebec  legacy can be found mostly in the Eastern Townships where many settled and mostly contributed to the Township's English component.

So what if Canada, post independence pulled the same stunt, offering wildly advantageous conditions for Quebecers and more importantly Quebec businesses to relocate to Canada, it would make complete sense, after all, Quebec would now be a foreign country and fair game for a raid.
What if Canada eliminated dual-citizenship, telling Quebecers to either move to Canada or lose their citizenship?

Let us consider the effect of the threat of the loss of citizenship coupled with generous conditions that Canada would bestow upon Quebecers who jumped ship.
If Canada did as the British did in doting entitlements to the United Empire Loyalists, I shudder to think of the consequences.

What if Canada told Quebecers that they could move to Canada and be free of federal taxes for ten years  and what if the provinces did likewise?
It would be a good deal for Canada which could eliminate immigration for a few years in exchange for those productive Quebecers.

Now let us just consider the commercial and business side, where in an effort to lure giant corporations out of Quebec, generous tax advantages and employee re-location plans could wreak havoc on the Quebec economy, regardless of how many actually left.
Bombardier, CAE, CGI, Pratt and Whitney, would be be the first targeted, gutting Quebec's high tech industry.
The much vaunted video-game industry wouldn't be that hard to pry away with the right incentives.

Quebec would be in the unenviable position in having to match the offers, but it would mean a disastrous drop in taxes.
Every company which would leave for Canada would force employees, even those not inclined to move to Canada, to make a difficult choice, that is, to remain in an uncertain Quebec without a job or or move to Canada under generous relocation conditions.

I shudder to think of the devastating consequences and sovereigntists should face this very likely and thoroughly frightening scenario.

It is a sovereigntist tenet that Canada doesn't and never has played fair with Quebec and has in fact callously stabbed Quebec in the back in the past à la Night of the long Knives, so it's hard for them to pooh-pooh the scenario I've outlined above and pretend that Canada will somehow respect Quebec's integrity and not poach.

And so readers, I ask again, how many Quebecers will leave?

And  secondly, at what point will the exodus be fatal?


  1. Editor,

    In my visits to both Toronto and Calgary, there is no doubt in my mind that the exodus of FRANCOPHONES from a sovereign Quebec would no doubt be huge.

    It's already becoming more frequent to walk down Queen West in TO and overhear Quebecers talking to each other in French. Once I was at a bar close by to the train station and when a Quebecois walked in and ordered in a thick English accent, the Anglo barmaid immediately started talking to him in French.

    The country has changed quite a bit in the past couple of decades and I find that most separatists who cling to the old "Canada hates Francos" belief are those who never bother to venture out of Quebec (S.R comes to mind).

    In the last post, we established that separatists summer from a narcissism complex. It's for this very reason they believe that any opposition to a smooth transition is something they're owed.

    That's why it will be even sweeter to offer incentives to the Jean-Guy Tremblays and Marc-Andre Dubois to jump ship and join a winning, prosperous team.

    1. "... immediately started talking to him in French."

      Chanceux...Ce phénomène est de plus en plus rare au centre-ville de Montréal.

    2. Tu passes trop proche à McGill et Concordia. C'est la faute du UQAM, HEC et UdeM d'etre si loin de centreville.


    3. Well you are right, these french bigots expect the same service outside Quebec....they expect and demand everything to be in french and have for decades now...

      They have Quebec and are spreading this french only BS all over Canada...the clips below prove the point well.

      These people are the most racist, bigoted, corrupt, xenophobic people in all of North America. If the world only knew what was going on in Canada, what the “French” (metis) were really up to…along with the racist anti-English language laws in Quebec a la bills 22, 178, 101…they have bragged about taking all of Canada and everything seems to be going as planned…”first Quebec, then the rest of the country…one step at a time…” PET, “how to take over a country through bilingualism…” SD

      If you only knew how bad things really were…the video clips below expose some of the scams…

      Enjoy the latest videos exposing this bilingual scam…and if care please pass it on.

      These bigots are all over the country folks…you think its bad in Quebec (bills 22, 178, 101…) …mmm, enjoy the latest video below (click it back to the start when it opens) and spread the word…people really have no idea what these bigots are really up to...

      “French power” folks, this is the term brought to Ottawa by Trudeau and his gang from Kebec, Marchand, Pelletier and the rest. They bragged about it and did it. You can find their quotes bragging about this online. I have read them myself. ( Some quotes below)

      "I cannot swear it but I think we were thinking to ourselves,... we are a small group, Trudeau, Pelletier, Marchand, Lalonde, Chrétien, myself and a few people in the civil service, say 50 all told…we were bringing off a revolution. We held the key posts. We were making the civil service bilingual (French), kicking and screaming all the time". Jean-Luc Pepin, Minister of Industry, 1970.

      So while Quebec bans the English language (bill 22, bill 178, bill 101…), wipes out its real BNA, UEL history, while ethnic language cleansing is going on in Quebec, the rest of the country is forced to fund whatever the French (metis) demand. This is going on in every province. Go check.

      “First Quebec, then we take over the rest of the country, one step at a time…through bilingualism…” PT, “How to take over a country through bilingualism…” SD. How ? First comes the right to communicate with gov't in a minority language (ie French),then comes bilingualism, then comes the right to work in the language of choice(ie French), then comes a bilingual boss,(ie French) then comes a exclusively French department and on it goes until its all French. Its happening all over the country, Ontario, New Brunswick…That’s what’s really going on.

      “My roll as Secretary of State of Canada is first and foremost to ensure that my French compatriots in Canada feel with deep conviction, as I do, that this is their country and that it reflects their image”. “I too had some difficult years as a politician; I’m still having them, in fact, because everything we undertake and everything we are doing to make Canada a French state is part of a venture I have shared for many years with a number of people”. “You know the idea, the challenge, the ambition of making Canada a French country both inside and outside Quebec — an idea some people consider a bit crazy, is something a little beyond the ordinary imagination”. – Serge Joyal, Secretary of State – Page 2 ‘ENOUGH’ by J.V. Andrew. – Serge Joyal – Now in the Senate.

    4. By AnecTOTE

      "Chanceux...Ce phénomène est de plus en plus rare au centre-ville de Montréal."

      What a bloody lie, s.r., AS IF would even know living in your little bubble in Sherbrooke. I work downtown and I am there daily. I walked into a prominent store that sells yoga apparel on St-Catherine's last summer and they did not have one person on staff that could speak English. I had to translate for the poor tourist who wanted to buy an was so freakin' embarrassing, she was beside herself. And cause I helped them, they offered me a 10% discount on yoga pants, which I didn't buy.

      So pls, s.r.... Shut the hell up.

    5. Montreal is meant to be English not French. It's like oil and water.

    6. By AnecTOTE

      Oh my, somebody is mad at me LOLOLOLOL. You'll have to do better than that s.r. Lol. See, I know you live in a cardboard box, you're destitute and no body loves you, but ask me if I care.

      Stick to subject at hand please:

      1) The neglected quebec economy, the one your PQ chiefs are conveniently ignoring cause they're incompetent,
      2) After quebec separates, deadbeats like you will have to give up even that cardboard. Lol :-)

    7. LENOIR
      Narcissism is not a mere complex (like inferiority)but a serious mental disorder that the DSMV characterizes as Cluster B type. That is of extreme sociopathic/psychopathic consequences like Borderline or Antisocial. It is a disorder of severe psychosis. It is not a joke.
      Someone wrote, I forget, Quebec nationalism was the breakdom of the concept of the individual, individual right and freedoms and values for a collective narcissism. That is to say Quebec is in a state of absolute collective psychotic breakdown.
      it has been illuminating, fun and always entertaining to analyse all the historic, social, economic,political, religious etc issues species specific to Quebec. But they are all symptoms. Until the serious collective mental health issues of the power/elite and their little victims are addressed ,and the lunatics stopped from running the asylum and inbreeding in the asylum, the situation is hopeless.
      As to the editor's question? My answer is clear. I have left. As of a month ago.
      Why? Because mental illness,particularily, as severe as the cluster B type is contagious. It is infectious in that sooner or later you become infected and effected by the insanity, the gaslighting, the narcissistic abuse.
      But not only have I left the province, I am proud to say I HAVE LEFT THE COUNTRY.
      I refuse to further contribute or participate in a country that has knowingly and deliberately psychopatholigized it's citizens (am talking bout the FCs) and certainly for it's own geopolitical games.
      I have always suspected that the operation against Quebec has been run out of Washington with full collaboration of Ottowa. the reasons should be obvious. Its Rwanda. Same game; different tribes.
      And just because you leave this sick state of things, doesn't mean you stop fighting for a free healthy homeland.
      I will continue to contribute to the cause of Montreal's liberation from psychotic Quebec.
      I will always maintain the first most sane and crucial step is to create a province of Montreal free from Quebec city.
      To,now, successfully treat therapeutically,medicate and re-educate millions of victims and their spawn: to successfully re-educate and integrate them into Canadian society is an impossible task.
      And I will as effectively as possible continue to educate the people of my new country as to the truth about Quebec. To promote the boycotting of Quebec in all realms from tourism to business. etc
      But most of all to nail down the most ineluctable truth: if a QUEBEC CAN HAPPEN HERE IN CANADA, in 2014, it can happen anywhere.

    8. "Oh my, somebody is mad at me..."

      Assez inusité n'est-ce pas?

      Je suis tout de même content que vous ayez eu le temps d'apprécier mon humour...Un peu tordu pour certains,j'en conviens.

      Et oui je tâcherai de faire mieux la prochaine fois,tout en respectant le cadre du blogue,comptez sur moi.

      ToTo et yoga...Mdr!

    9. By AnecTOTE

      "But most of all to nail down the most ineluctable truth: if a QUEBEC CAN HAPPEN HERE IN CANADA, in 2014, it can happen anywhere"

      Indeed, I think full acknowledgment of that statement has yet to's a scary thought isn't it? I feel the same as you, if and when I leave I want out completely, i do love this country...I CANNOT STAND THOSE WHO RUN IT, or what those who ran it in the past have done to it. I can live anywhere so why not entertain a far away land. But right at this moment...we r in it...and have to deal with it...till we deal with it no more.

      It was great reading you LENOIR.

    10. Thanks man for your acknowledgement , Let us not ever forget ,Canada created this FRANKENSTEIN monster called Quebec and has let it run riot,run amok destroying the villagers and villages for the past 50 years. Has been feeding and fueling the monster's primitive sickness and self loathing.
      Leave Kebek:leave Canada.
      On a lighter note,,subscribe to a site called International provides full details on the hows whens wheres and is dead simple. THEY WANT US EVERYWHERE in the world,
      and theres no French Canadians out here, ever , anywhere, Imagine,
      the Americans will sort them out here, they want it,,they can have it,

    11. "THEY WANT US EVERYWHERE in the world"

      They just want your money :)

    12. @anectote

      " I walked into a prominent store that sells yoga apparel on St-Catherine's last summer and they did not have one person on staff that could speak English. I had to translate for the poor tourist who wanted to buy an outfit..."

      another made up story. i don't believe there wasn't one english speaker in a prominent ste-catherine street store. and even if it was the case, i don't belive it's a problem if the tourist has to take his french dictionary out to say can i try this and how much is that. after all the tourist knew he was coming to a francophone country, didn't he?

    13. "after all the tourist knew he was coming to a francophone country, didn't he?"

      How sad that you want this so badly, your only refuge is to take solace in your own imagination.

    14. By AnecTOTE

      Montreal City-State is an officially bilingual country, Smegma, do try and remember that.

    15. By AnecTOTE


      Lol, you can almost her defend, deflect, and deny it all through clenched teeth, lololol, she is bloody maa..madddd,'s tough defending a (quebec) brand that has no worth!

    16. J'ai cru voir quelque part que vous songiez à quitter notre province?

    17. Tote: Don't address the smegma. Just DON'T!

    18. by AnecTOTE

      Mr. Sauga, once we have the Referendum to end all Referendums (mm..hahah), and the seppies finally win (hope springs eternal), and the rest of us (in this province), make off like bandits with our own piece of territory to call home, will you move back to Montreal City-State? Just askin', lol

    19. No! (NLAA).* I will not, AnecTOTE.

      It's not as if Montreal's woes would suddenly evaporate the day after the unlikely scenario Montreal becomes a city-state.

      *Not laughing at all.

  2. Author says: "Every company which would leave for Canada would force employees, even those not inclined to move to Canada, to make a difficult choice, that is, to remain in an uncertain Quebec without a job ..."

    This is the same kind of choice that those affected by Bill 60 will have to make - your job or your religion, pick one. If a Separatist's employer leaves because of independence, they can make a choice - your job or your country, pick one. What goes around comes around.

  3. First of all, let me say that i think there is an absolute ZERO chance of any form of QC sovereingnty. It would be impossible to work out. However lets say it does. Based on 8 million people, i would think that 15-20% would immediately pick up and leave, leaving 6.4 - 6.8 million. Generally these would be tax payers, their families, and retirees. The problem lies if the population drops to between 5.5-6 million, then all bets are off. The country would be fiscally bankrupt.

    FYI the 1100 layoffs at 1 company Bombardier represents approx 44 million of annual tax revenue lost.

    1. In the La Presse article Couillard talks about Alcoa. They are Hydro's biggest customer, using $350 million in electricity per year. They are not pleased that Marois wants to jack up their rate while giving newcomer FerroAtlantica a discount. The Hydro revenue plus 3500 jobs are at stake if Marois chooses to screw with Alcoa and we're not even facing sovereignty yet.

  4. From The Rationalist:

    Sorry Mr. Editor but you start from a false premise: That those who choose to remain Canadian will, in large numbers, be required to "leave". Both the Supreme Court Quebec Secession Judgement and the Clarity Act (Section 3(2)) clearly indicate that the secession of Quebec cannot occur in the absence of an agreement on the borders of the seceding province. The No voters are highly concentrated in easily defensible geographic regions which are contiguous to the neighbouring provinces and to the U.S. border. It would be a lot easier to move a border than displace the hundreds of thousands of non-francophones that your scenario envisions. It those borders were not moved, the new Quebec would confront insurmountable civil disobedience and the borders would end up being moved by the people themselves.

    1. Whether through partition or moving truck, they'd still be leaving Quebec, n'est-ce-pas?


    2. Partition Québec. Most of us get to stay where we live; and remain Canadian and Québecois( the province, that is).
      Would this not be the best scenario for us, if separation were to happen ?

    3. Couldn't agree more - Partition is the answer to keep most of us happy! Everyone should join the partition movement and let's get on with it. Out from under these fascist control freaks that want to tell us how to live our lives! That's what we want - no more "majority" kicking the shit out of anyone that is not the "same" as them. Let them go and live their lives to fornicate among themselves and keep their "pure blood line". Talk about Nazi's - they are just like them!

    4. By AnecTOTE

      I think for the most part, we'll need to start distancing ourselves way before. The rhetoric must start NOW. Just as the seppies speak of quebec like it's already separate, we must do the same, so Montreal city-state is well on it way to seeing itself far removed for the toxic Roq.

    5. Totally agree.

      Partitioning Montreal from the destructive tendencies of "Les Quebecois" is a natural thing to do.

      Montreal has very little in common with rural Quebec.

      The more the years go on the more Montrealers realize they arn;t Quebecers.

      quebecers are the people we see on the Charbonneau comission sitting behind the desk answering questions or the idiots we see supporting the charter at the national assembly.

      They are the Quebec taliban. Determined to track down, harass and intimidate anglo's and immigrants. Occasionally they like to burn down a second cup.

    6. Yep - start with your correspondence - don't put "Quebec" on anything anymore - just Montreal and your postal code which says your address anyway. Never, ever say you come from quebec; just Montreal - no more need be said. Everyone in the world recognizes "Montreal".

    7. I 100% agree with you The Rationalist

    8. Là vous avez un problème peggy...Personne ne sait où se trouve Gatineau :)

    9. "Determined to track down, harass and intimidate anglo's and immigrants."

      Avec les propos que vous tenez à notre égard,j'espère que vous n'êtes pas étonné :)

    10. lenoir
      what a great idea cutie, I never say am from quebec or Canada when travelling. I always say Montreal , Period.
      let us all expand that to everything. Just like Canada does not exist for them, Quebec no longer exists for us.
      Make it a mind set. make it a mantra. Montreal Canada.
      There are many ways to skin a psychopath, One of them is called mirroring, whatever they say or do to you; do it right back at them, it drives them nuts, they cant cope,
      Never argue, debate or try to engage in rational meaningful exchange with the narcissist. They are masters of psychop. you can never win with the narcissist. as you have all seen with your resident trolls.
      Goggle how to handle a narcissist and you will find the same advice from all experts in the field of severe psychopathology,

      1) never engage is a rabbit hole, you can try to chase them down it, but it is you who gets lost, there is no end to their bottomless hole of insanity, THEY ARE THE HOLE
      2) deflect, ignore or mirror them. It drives them nuts. never deal with them directly,
      3) BASH them, insult, laugh at them , burst their fantasy bubbles, smash their magic mirrors where they see themselves (and only they see themselves) as masters of the universe, visionary revolutionary francosupremetist direct descendants of the kings of france and their donkey joual as the only true French etc etc
      hit em hard and non stop til their noses bleed with the truth, as we all know it,
      A narc is an empty hole, a mirror without a reflection.
      When you mirror them, you mirror their emptiness. THEY GET THAT
      the septard only exists when you look into the hole or the mirror directly.
      Bill Maher, Conan Obrien, Jon Stewart etc would have simply laughed the septards out of existence 50 years ago.
      everyone PLEASE GOOGLE Triumph the Insult Dog in Quebec City, You will laugh til you cry
      Triumph the Insult Dog summed up our GRAND Canadian tribal pathos of kebekistan 5 years ago in one silly skit.
      How come a silly puppet sent from conan Obrien to quebec city GET IT better than we Canadians ever did?

    11. "How come a silly puppet sent from conan Obrien to quebec city GET IT better than we Canadians ever did?"

      Surprenant de lire que les Américains ont fait quelque chose de mieux que les canayens.

      " I'm flabbergasted "

    12. @lenoir

      Canadians are more polite and reserved than Americans but Triumph the Insult Dog tells it like it is. The anti-Quebec sentiment from ROC has grown in recent years and there won't be a "we love you, we want you Quebec" anymore. Quebec should become independent so the never-ending bullshit stops. Let them fend for themselves.

    13. @Lenoir

      You are officially my new hero :) Just sayin.

    14. Add my support for Cutie's "Montreal, Canada" idea for addressing mail. One would think that as long as the street address and postal code are accurate and readable, the mail should reach its destination. The absence of "Quebec" might upset some seppies at Canada Post, but so what. Would they purposely hold back mail because of it? I'd like to see them try. Hundreds/thousands of letters and parcels circulating with "Montreal, Canada" would convey a strong message.

    15. by AnecTOTE

      I'd go further, …."Montreal City-State, Canada"

  5. the real question is how much longer will Quebecers put up withtheir province being run by a bunch of radicals and the mob stealing them blinddestroying any chance of a future for the province in any scenario.

    next let's enter the sovereign federal parks land and saw her native land debate.

    but really the bottom line for the rest of Canada outside of Quebec we are tired of the what ifs and the threats no more put up or shut up its just shut up enough of your whining pissing and moaning

  6. If Quebec did ever separate, I would be leaving the province with 100% certainty. My interest lies with being Canadian more than being Quebecoise.

    1. If I didn't own land here, I would have been out with the introduction of Bill 14 - one months' notice to my landlord and over the border I would have went in a heartbeat. As will every federalist that does not own land here if and when a 50+1 vote is attained - who would stay for the problems all of this shit brings along with it? Only those that can't afford to leave or the too old and infirm to make the transition.

    2. @cutie003

      how much is your land worth mate? we'll help you find something decent for you accross the river. come on mate free help you shouldn't turn this down.

    3. Que va-t-elle de tout ce fiel et de ce venin en extra,en ontayo?

    4. @s.r

      in ontario cutie003 will become a zen guru. a silk temptress. a nirvana enthusiast. a conflict anihilator. a universal lover. just like the other emigrants sauga and troy. or not.

    5. Je l'imagine plutôt faisant partie d'un club sado-maso...Une idée comme ça.

    6. regards the above slashings and thrashings of your resident narc psychopaths.
      Please to all the healthy normal sane human beings here.. please take a half an hour from your day and google and read about NPD. Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
      Quickly you will understand that they conform to 9 0ut of 9 of the diagnostic critiera for severe psychopathic NPD
      then take a few minutes to peruse how to deal with a NPD psychopath.
      For the more academic of you SAM VAKNIN is considered the world authority on NPD
      for you who just wanna get the intel at a glance,,,their are hundreds of more easily accessible sites
      until everyone is on the same page understanding the epidemic of NPD and how to deal with it in Kebekistan, we are all just spinning our wheels.

    7. NPD, historically called megalomania, refers to severe egocentrism, and is indeed a severe personal disorder. We have all witnessed an obvious, demonstrable case of it here by one unfortunate individual, which results in the daily posting of juvenile caca.

    8. "Juvenile caca" dans le genre...

      "'re da mannnnn...I may have a crush on u...LOLOLOLOL. "

  7. Editor,

    There are two plotholes in your scenario above. It may not necessarily means that it is wrong, but further elaboration may be needed.

    1. New Canada offers tax breaks to immigrants from New Quebec. Can you imagine the reaction from the original Canadian population? That means that the newcomers, which already have the capacity to move and have assets to survive, each will receive tens of thousand of take-home cash. If there is resentment towards immigrants now, imagine the one with that scenario.

    2. If new Canada offers tax and other incentives for companies to move, why can New Quebec match? Your argument is the drop of tax revenue. But New Quebec will lose tax revenue anyway, either from tax breaks or from the disappearance of tax payers. So I do not see why New Quebec can not offer such breaks to match New Canada. Maybe the other argument I can see is that New Canada has the economy of scale, meaning that the break it gives has less impact on its budget than on Quebec budget. Having said that, the next question is why does Canada and other provinces not do it right now if the prospect is that good?

    1. By AnecTOTE

      They are doing their best to secure a taxpayer base. The issue of destroying any vestige of English Language throughout this province has little to do with preserving French Language and culture and more to do with ensuring they limit citizens of mobility as much as possible, so that they don't move out onto greener pastures and leave them in the RED. Think the hick family at the charter hearing, WE need an interpreter to understand them. Do you see them venturing down the 401? No. Captive audience, captive tax-payer base.

      Truth=follow the money.

    2. OMG - half the population! We must get these people out of our territory before we all go down with them. I generally knew that a lot of the people that vote for separation are kind of stupid but really!

    3. What's good for the french language is the only criteria that is important.

      If we are left eating sawdust by a campfile but we speak french and have no electricity is a success story for Quebec.

      You just need to redefine everything.

      Student Boycott are strikes
      No jobs but speak french = success

    4. FROM ED
      TROY, your argument has foundation. The first great exodus from here began when P.M. Mulroney moved the railways out of Montreal. He supplied them and the employees with lavish aid to relo. In some cases whole towns were built out west to accet the mostly middle class that arrived. Companies knew they could train the grunts quickly so they brought their managers too train them. AS large income tax paying base from Quebec. Provinces knew that whatever subsidfies they gave these people would soon come back in taxes. Ed

  8. I am so tired of Quebec sovereigns blackmailing the rest of Canada with what can only be called threats to be these people realize that if they do become independent, they cannot still get all the monies they receive from the federal government, and let's talk about having their own monetary system, etc.....I'm to the point where I say let them go.....I'm a proud Canadian , and that means nothing to a good part of the population in Quebec..I have my passport and can still visit my favorite places in Quebec..many of my friends in Montreal, all say they will let Quebec leave...I hope Mrs Marois is up to the challenge of bringing this through with no affect on her new Quebec,, Bonne chance

    1. Do these people realize ... No, they don't. A recent CROP poll commissioned by COGECO showed that 50% of Quebeckers don't think private industry contributes to the economy. Many Quebeckers think that the state will provide for them no matter what happens and they have no worry about where the money comes from.

    2. Sorry Theo, but that's the sad truth behind the "peasant mindset."

      Separatists haave the infantile hippie/punk rock mentality that capilatists are evil demons who care about nothing
      but money and that as such, wealth should be chastised and rejected.

      This is part of the reason I wish the sovereignist movement WASN'T dead.

      I do wish to see Quebec part ways with Canada, so that the jellyfish that actually believe that money is of no use to a society can feel the full effects of a society that is run without money.

      The sheer arrogance is beyond compare, but that will soon change when they are left to fend for themselves.

    3. By AnecTOTE


      Hydro Quebec alone employs close to 13,000 people, imagine that, and most are seppies no doubt, the Quebec government has so many unnecessary agencies, I don't even want to know how many seppies they employ throughout, and then there is the STM. All government owned entities and that's who takes care of these deadbeat sepps. Good luck keeping that up after we QC goes its own way. Seppies think they'll continue to suckle...LOLOLOLOLOL ....ahhhhhh how deluded can you be..... gotta laugh!

    4. Air Canada, much like Bank of Montreal, Royal Bank of Canada and others, only has a symbolic head office in Montreal (i.e. an empty shell, a cardboard cutout for show, of low importance). Their operational day-to-day cooperate head office are in Toronto now.

      Air Canada has been doing the transfer in bit by bit steps. Last one I remember, in 2011, was to move 125 crew schedulers from Montreal to Toronto. Even the once grand CFCF12 local television station, now simply "CTV Montreal" has its master control room, operations and all decisions made out of Toronto.

    5. @theo

      " A recent CROP poll commissioned by COGECO showed that 50% of Quebeckers don't think private industry contributes to the economy."

      this has to be total bullshit. please provide poll.

    6. The bad-faith student has gone to great lengths to carefully establish his very bad reputation on this blog. Nevertheless, for genuine participants and readers of this blog worldwide, the poll results are undeniable (not to mention that they are easily found by any sincere student who participates here in good faith):

      Peter Hadekel: Charter debate is bad for Quebec's economy
      “Audet was worried enough to commission the polling firm CROP to probe Quebecers’ attitudes toward private enterprise. The findings were clear: One in two Quebecers believes private enterprise does not serve the interests of the public and is damaging to society.”

      Cogeco CEO Louis Audet says Quebec’s proposed values charter harmful to economy
      “Meanwhile, Audet also cited a recent CROP poll for Cogeco which found that half of Quebecers believed that private business does not benefit society. He suggested that all high school students should have to take a basic economics class to better understand the role of businesses.”

      CHARTE DES VALEURS : Le patron de Cogeco s'inquiète des impacts
      « Louis Audet n'a pas limité son discours à l'enjeu controversé de l'heure. Il indique avoir commandé un sondage à la maison CROP pour mieux comprendre ce qui se passe au Québec depuis la crise étudiante. Résultat : une personne sur deux estime que l'entreprise privée ne sert pas les intérêts de la population et peut nuire à la société. »

      La charte menacerait l’économie
      « Il a également mentionné un récent sondage effectué par CROP pour Cogeco selon lequel la moitié des Québécois croient que les entreprises privées ne profitent pas à la société. »

      Does this shatter your illusions yet, mate?
      Of course not; you’re wearing separatist blinkers.
      Magical thinking is required to be a Quebec separatist.

    7. 35% of workers in France are government workers. Quebec is trying to emulate the mothership. One does not have to worry about the economy if their income and pension comes from the state.

    8. Now that we have discovered there are buffoons in Quebec like the Pineault-Caron family, who actually claimed before a government commission about the charter that they were “scarred” by their experience as tourists visiting a mosque in Morocco, it almost becomes believable that half of Quebecers also think that private businesses are “harmful” to the economy.

    9. @the cat & @theo

      i want to see the poll. not an angryphone's "analysis" of it. what was the question asked, and what were the results? this is nowhere in the article you propose. you can't be so gullible as to believe half of quebeckers, or more than half of francophones think businesses are bad for the economy. or can you?

    10. Boivin and Audet are not typical "angryphone" names, but why let facts get in the way.

    11. by AnecTOTE

      "Of course not; you’re wearing separatist blinkers."

      I'm afraid I have to disagree with you here Cat. The smegma in here know the name of the game. The ignoramuses with blinders on are the Pineault-Caron's of the world, who don't stand a fighting chance since they've been kept ignorant, and will remain so. But the smegma who plague us just want to ensure the (quebec) brand remains intact. They know their cause stinks to high heaven, but they need to carry on the theatre so they can keep living off ALL our backs. They are Players, pure and simple; and sent here for the sole purpose of safe-guarding a brand, lol. They deny, deflect and defend in the hopes of preserving that name (that brand). And consequently, can keep the charade going, that of blackmailing a country for yet another 40 years, at the very least, unless it wakes up and gives them the boot first. I suspect this is why the chiefs in charge at the National Assembly have never produced that spreadsheet I mentioned in an earlier post today!

    12. Cat: You hit the nail right on their wooden heads where you quoted that Gazette article. Nails don't really hurt wood hence the fact these Francoidiots don't know how much driving nails into their heads is affecting their brains.

      Worse yet, in Quebec's case, they see private investment as a hindrance, not a help, and since the minority population of 20% is paying 40% of the taxes, small wonder Jewish brains are worth a dollar, English brains two dollars and Francocatholic brains $1,000. Here are the ratios to back it up (population:billionaires):

      Jewish: 15,000:1

      Francocatholic: 800,000:1

      To the smegma: Read it and weep!

  9. Interesting post Phil. A lot of big IF's bubble up to the surface in this scenario. If Montreal is abandoned by Canada, then yes I can see any company with a National scope abandoning Montreal. In a way thats been happening since the PQ was first elected. We know all about the giant companies that left, the big banks, CP Rail and insurance firms. Add to that the hundreds of smaller firms that left. Also, it should be stated that Air Canada, (a Montreal based company which was an offshoot of CN Rail) just christened a brand new 75 million dollar Operations Center in Brampton Ontario. Every single one of those jobs in Brampton were at one point based in Montreal. That company already has one foot in Ontario, it's not much of a stretch to move the other foot if Montreal is lost. I also don't see CN or Bell sticking around either as most of their business is done outside Quebec and the only thing holding them back here is their company's history.
    I know I would have no desire to renounce my citizenship. Even though I was born and raised in the Townships and here in Montreal. If the Separatists are really serious, they should start prepping their supporters on the major financial haircut they will face and the very real possibility of a much smaller Quebec geographically IF they ever achieve their dream. None of this talk is even being considered by the PQ, QS or Option Nationale which shows me their proposal is half baked.

    1. By AnecTOTE

      I think thar rail traffic controllers for Via Rail were also relocated recently to Alberta, so those are job loses as well for this city.

    2. FROM ED
      Rail traffic controllers are not based in any one Province. They are spread accross Canada wherevr moves goods and people. Ed

  10. Commission d'enquête :

    Un lobbyiste engagé pour remettre un chèque à Jean Charest

  11. By AnecTOTE

    "Bombardier, CAE, CGI, Pratt and Whitney, would be be the first targeted, gutting Quebec's high tech industry.
    The much vaunted video-game industry wouldn't be that hard to pry away with the right incentives."

    Yeah ..the right incentives alright, .....we're freakin' subsidizing the salaries...WE ..the taxpayers.
    We are soooo toast.

  12. And to make you feel even better:

    1. "I am so worried about the drop in standard of living" said almost no one in Quebec.

    2. Gagné says Quebec is very close to becoming the POOREST province in the country, ahead of only the Maritime provinces.

      Who cares if Gagné is a Francophone...he's obviously a fucking "vendu" and a shameless Quebec-basher!!

    3. @anonymous coward

      "Who cares if Gagné is a Francophone...he's obviously a fucking "vendu" and a shameless Quebec-basher!!"

      is he? ah, it explains everything then.


  14. The Champlain Bridge. The feds own it. Why should they spend money to build a new one if Quebec becomes independent in the near future? Screw Quebec, they can pay for their own bridge!

    1. maybe because they don't think "quebec becomes independent in the near future". do you reckon they got that assumption wrong mate?

    2. A principled sovereignist government, as opposed to all the insincere ones we’ve had that merely try to extort as much as they can from Ottawa, would be fundamentally opposed to any federal spending on bridges in Quebec (and most definitely any spending above Quebec’s 23% proportion of the population).

  15. Ever wonder what Google complete thinks of Quebec?

    Note if you ask in French you get a different response "pauvre". Not sure which is better.

    1. that's a nice proof of the bad effect the anglo press has on its consumers.

    2. Alternatively, it’s a nice proof of the bad effect the franco press has on its consumers.

  16. Watching TVA news at noon, almost fell off my chair and spilt some coffee. A news item
    Série Québec dans le rouge : des choix déchirants pour les Québécois (Quebec in the red : heartbreaking choices for quebecers)

    1. @ Lâche moé un WAC

      Il est bien qu'il s'agisse d'un moment marquant pour toi. Parce qu'inévitablement l'idée va surgir dans le débat qu'on envoie 50 milliards chaque année à Ottawa et que tout cet argent n'est pas nécessairement utilisé à notre avantage et qu'il vaudrait mieux le gérer à partir de Québec.

  17. Rob Ford poursuivi pour avoir orchestré une agression

    "Yours to discover"... :(

    1. Justin Bieber sera inculpé pour agression

      C'est comme si le gros Coderre et Céline Dion étaient inculpés pour agression, on trouverait qu'on est rendu bas. Ben, c'est ça l'Ontario...

    2. "Justin Bieber sera inculpé pour agression"

      Quoi? Il a refait un disque ?

    3. OMG - who on this blog gives a sweet damn about Justin Bieber or Rob Ford - you people waste enough space and time on here - NONE OF US CARE!

  18. Some more questions to ponder, since we’re talking theoretically here… let’s suppose for a moment that after a few generations, New Quebec comes to realize that their experiment to go it alone isn’t working out like they hoped it would, that outlawing English was a bad idea and that their dream has proven to be unsustainable.

    Is there a reason why New Canada should or would want to allow New Quebec back in? Is it reasonable to assume that New Canada would be willing to let bygones be bygones after New Quebec had caused so much disruption and chaos? Would it be in New Canada’s best interests to include a provision that declares the separation process to be irreversible and that New Quebec remain permanently excised on the basis that it consists of eternal malcontents and traitors?

    Although, there are always eternal malcontents in all democratic societies, but not traitors who reject the state out of hand. There is virtually no disagreement that New Canada would be in a much better position to succeed economically than New Quebec would, although it might result in diminished prestige on the world stage.

    Do the Americans still have an interest in acquiring access to the St. Lawrence River (like they did when they were expanding Maine’s territory northward during the American Revolution and the War of 1812)? Would they have a reason for admitting a state with the population of Philadelphia to remain an anti-English, Bill 101 type of distinct society the way Canada did, or would they just force assimilation while maintaining a historical hint of French in New Vermont? How would an impoverished, poorly-defended, economically-unsustainable nation prevent this outcome from happening? Ask France to come defend them from the Americans? For New Canada, would having New Vermont be worse/the same/better than having New Quebec?

    1. Lenoir
      see my comment above Cat.
      It seems to me that Washington has been running this whole balkanization of Canada thru Kebekistani nationalism, from the get go.
      Who has the most to gain from a weakened, divided, bankrupt, confused and corrupt Canada? Internally in this inexplicable state of tribal war?
      I mean it's like not the first time USA has done this. I mean check out, pretty much the history of Africa and South America, SE Asia, the Middle East
      since the Cold War. This is what they do. They are the masters of the game.
      Its just we stupid Canadians who just can't believe THEY WOULD DO IT TO US.
      Once they have Quebec, their super power status will be globally ensured forever. They will have complete control of the Bering straight from east to west,
      to say nothing of the unspeakable wealth in gold,.oil. diamonds etc being uncovered monthly as they melted the ice caps away.

    2. @the cat

      "Would it be in New Canada’s best interests to include a provision that declares the separation process to be irreversible..."

      of course it wouldn't. it's never in anyone's interest to close available options on oneself forever. never say never mate. that wasn't a very good question the cat. mainly cause it's childish: i remember saying to a dude in elementary that i wouldn't talk to him anymore ever ever. same here mate. come on grow up.

    3. @Lenoir,
      "They are masters of the game." I disagree. I think American foreign policy is based on the theory that 'The enemy of my enemy must be my friend'. They backed the Taliban against the Russians in Afghanistan during the Cold War without actually giving any thought to their ideology or what might happen if the Taliban won, thus sowing the seeds for the mess of the past dozen years. They backed Sadam Hussein against Iran, then went after Sadam, and thus created the ongoing mess in Iraq. They've historically propped up a long list of right-wing despots, purely because they weren't left wingers, with disastrous results.They stupidly allowed most of the U.S. manufacturing base to move to China and ran up enormous debts to the Chinese, all for a bunch of cheap electronics and clothes. They're like a chess player who never looks beyond the next move, with predictable results. Far from being masters, I think they're myopic idiots, who don't realize that World War III is being fought economically and that they're losing.
      I assume that when you say 'Bering Strait', you mean the Northwest Passage.

    4. In other words, student is comfortable gambling on Quebec separation, given the caveat that if things should not work out, they can always count on falling back to rely on Canada to support them again. Win-win for New Quebec! This highly-optimistic scenario has the support of only about 1/3 of Quebecers.

      The more realistic scenario that solo New Quebec goes solo just like all new nations are expected to do would have considerably less support than that.

    5. @joseph

      your interpretation of my words is abusive. i think canada should not close options on itself. that's it. don't you agree? tough not to, right mate?

    6. FROM ED
      Diogenes, your take on Lenoir is right on. Washington has nothing to do with Canada or Quebec. Obama is having enough trouble controlling his own country. Ed

    7. student, why is it so important that others agree with you? Are you so insecure that you need validation from others to increase your sense of self-worth? Does putting down others help to build you up? How do you see what Joseph wrote as abusive? If you're that thin-skinned, why do you treat others worse than that? Wouldn't "Do unto others..." be a better way for you to operate? Is it your insecurity that's the reason you never use caps, sort of a way of hiding behind smaller type?

    8. @diogenes

      "why is it so important that others agree with you?"

      asking joseph if he agrees with me is a way to help him focus on what i bring forward. it's a communication technique. quite effective as it also makes it it super obvious when one tries to dodge a tough argument. and i also like when people agree with me, you got that right.

      "Are you so insecure that you need validation from others to increase your sense of self-worth?"


      "Does putting down others help to build you up?"


      "How do you see what Joseph wrote as abusive?"

      i just explained that in my previous comment. claiming that canada shouldn't close options on itself does not necessarily imply planing to fall back on canada if independant quebec does not work. do you understand where joseph comited the abuse now diogenes?

      "why do you treat others worse than that?"

      please quote me.

      "Wouldn't "Do unto others..." be a better way for you to operate?"

      that's already how i operate mate.

      "Is it your insecurity that's the reason you never use caps, sort of a way of hiding behind smaller type?"


    9. Belief in having the perennial Canadian security blanket for his dream is strong in this one, young Jedi Diogenes.

    10. @ Diogenes, indeed , they are masters of a very bad game they have F'ed up the world playing.Agreed.
      That their best made plans usually f, up,of course. That they have no idea of the consequences of their games may be ? agreed. do they care? of course not. A lot for them is just a game dreamed up in think tanks at MIT etc, played out like board games. However, That, they desperately need and want quebec is a fact, That they know, have known for decades how to get it by the usual game; that they have been funding the separatist/nationalist movement is not a big stretch. Whether they win or lose this from
      Viet Nam to Iraq is anybody's guess. Depends a lot on us, doesn't it. If we stop fighting amongst ourselves internally (like the want) and start focusing on the enemy from without, UNITED
      and yes I meant the NW passage..thanks for that clarification.
      @ Ed so American foreign policy began and ends with Obama? Or any mere president?your comment is barely worth a nod

    11. Under no circumstances will the separatists among the Québécois nation ever leave Canada with all of its current territory and population intact, nor without assuming its share of the debt. The Cree nation, among others, has already assured us of that.

      The exodus will not only be by a significant part of Montreal’s 50% non-francophones “de souche” (Quebec’s 20% non-francophones “de souche”), who will be guaranteed to be institutionally treated to a French-only, ethnic-nationalist Quebec government that not only rejects Quebec’s historical reality but also feels unencumbered by human rights legislation (witness the current complete disregard by the Marois-Lisée-Drainville “dream team” minority government). There will also be an exodus by a good number of francophones “de souche” who are not allergic to English and desire stability and prosperity more than they do linguistic supremacy.

    12. by AnecTOTE

      Can we finally get some numbers on this please? What will it cost, after quebec and Canada part ways??? AND what are the "actual" implications regarding borders etc? Why is it that no one can produce this information?? I mean it seems pretty obvious to me. You want to buy a house, you sit down and figure out the financials, it's the first thing you do and the first thing you talk about with your signifant other if there happens to be one. Same for buying a car…a tv…a pet…lol. It's a no-brainer. Since the PQ is hell-bent on the purchase of freedom, I think the least they can do is a prepare a spreadsheet (LOL), for their significant other...and show us!!!! No fudging the numbers though, LOL. I'd ask why Ottawa had produced one but it'd be a rhetorical question.

      That's another thing, hugely lacking (and not only in this country) the world over: Leadership! The word has become a punchline.

    13. Yes, perhaps "student" can produce one for us - after all, she has the biggest mouth on here and loves to pretend to be intelligent so let's see what work she can produce for us. I would love to see just how this backward society, that doesn't need private investment, is going to work and be prosperous. Without an increase in taxes is a prerequisite before she starts the paperwork to show us the proof that it would be in the interest of people to live in this new "utopia".

  19. This is slightly off-topic, but since most of the regulars on this blog are bilingual (even S.R. I believe) and know French, they must also regularly TYPE French on a keyboard. I recently bought "Spiral" by Paul Halter. Halter is a French mystery writer who specialises in locked-room mysteries. He's written over 30 books since the 80's, but only a handful of those books have been translated into English. This isn't because of snobbery on M. Halter's part, but rather the reluctance of English-language publishers to bid for the rights. (This is also the same reason why many French comic books and graphic novels---with the notable exception of Tintin---do not get translated into English.

    Oh God, you're not going to ask one of us to translate this book for you? Really?

    No, I'm slowly translating the book myself. I'm typing the text into Google Translate, and then using my own knowledge of English to "translate the translation". What's a real pain in the neck is typing all the accents. On my computer, the way I have to do it is type "option" and "e" for the accent "aigu", "option" and the key left to the "!/1" key for the accent grave, "option" and "i" for the accent circonflexe, "option" and "u" for the accent tréma or what Germans call the "umlaut"; and finally "option" and "c" for the cédille.

    If you are typing on a French-language keyboard, is there an easier way to make those accent marks? I did discover this site for how to do it on my keyboard, but for now I'm just curious how it's done on the French keyboard. Thanks!

    1. @ Anomynous

      This is probably the place where I'm supposed to get angry and indignant, but the truth're right. Thanks for helping me out, and I really should not have posted a question at NDOA to get my answer since your way was easiest and quicker. Merci et desolé.

    2. @ Edward J. Cunningham: anonymous's remedy seems best, but here's a website that features accents for all the world's mnajor languages:
      It's handy, but requires cutting and pasting, so it's inefficient for long translations. But if you're jotting a quick note in French, Swedish or whatever, it's great.

    3. @Ex-MTLer1642 Thank you very much. I did discover Type It before I posted the question here, and it is a godsend in typing French text into Google Translate. But I have to admit that the question I was specifically asking could have been answered by me with a simple Google search. I am surprised that they still use the QWERTY arrangement in Quebec. I would have thought that the PQ would have mandated use of AZERTY, since that is used in France and specifically designed for the French language.

  20. The idea of Canada giving tax breaks to Quebecers moving to Canada is ludicrous. Canada does not want a massive influx of people as it will create a housing bubble like none seen before. The issue with that is it will boost inflation almost certainly followed by a bust

    1. FROM ED
      If a large influx of souls moved to Canada of course they would be accepted. they would simply carve new communities out of wilderness and build towns like we did for the soldiers and immigrants coming after WWII These immigres would be future tax payers. Ed

    2. A little known fact about the American Revolution---little known that is to my American countrymen, that is----is that many Americans supported George III and after the loyalists lost the war, they left America for other parts of the British Empire, including Canada. I don't think secession is coming in the near future, but if it does, it would only be right for Canada to welcome Quebeckers who still wish to live in Canada. I hope that that if this happens the door will also be open for Quebeckers whose first language is French---even if they don't speak English.

      If the U.S.-Quebec border has not become the Berlin Wall that the U.S-Mexico border is becoming, I also hope that my country will also do the same.

  21. Very little engagement of the troll smegma today, it is best to avoid the narcissists. Let them deal with their own mental disorders.

    1. By AnecTOTE're da mannnnn...I may have a crush on u...LOLOLOLOL. What a great post by Editor today...he's kept us busy these days. We are not further ahead with the important is a problem that can't be solved even if we shake it inside out..but we certainly have changed the conversation in here to something worth talking about: THE NEGLECTED quebec ECONOMY!!!

      Loved the posts by LENOIR & Diogenes today.....also thx Cutie..u babes are a class act.., and always so insightful....Appless more posts pls...thank you all (minus the Smegma), for keeping the focus on the quebec report card, we've established ....#Fail.

      Rationalist, James W., Lord D and The Cat ..keep it up! WAC..nice to see u back....cebeuq...ur scary but I luv it...keep postin' ...and AC ..u my friend..simply....(wink).

      Keep those post coming!!!

    2. FROM ED
      You're turning the blog into a giant support group where we all congratulate each other for our genius. This is teen age stuff just like angaging the trolls. We domn't need you to rate everyone's posting. Just give us your own thoughts and let us be our own judge of what's relavent. Being a 'support group' gives a blog a bad namebecause it sounds so juvenile. Ed

    3. Lenoir
      certainly theo, this has been one of the better blogs.
      Now I implore all you good people, contributers and readers, to take a mere half hour from your day, do your due diligence, Research and understand the severe epidemic of NPD and consequences.
      stop focusing on the mere symptoms; the economy, racism, ethnocentricnationalism, , their insane laws and charters, their uniquely "distinct" slavish instinct to follow evil masters from the church to the Vichy to the PQ
      stop talking about their obvious gross violations of human and democratic rights of freedom and expression,
      They are self evident and clear to all human beings and have been for 50 years.
      THAT all these are all just symptoms, effects or consequences of the self destructive suicidal psychopathic disease of NPD is what needs be focused on now.
      and to expose the feds deliberate involvement/pay off for their creation of the sick monster kebekistein,

    4. @ed

      great comment ed. anectote is ruining our blog. she goes as far as to praise racist james wolfe! gives a great insight on what her genuine motives are.

    5. by AnecTOTE

      Sorry folks..(and Editor)…but I need to address this.


      "You're turning the blog into a giant support group…"

      You would think that ..wouldn't ya? ..Especially since you come here to feel less lonely and talk nonsense out loud. The grown-ups, however, who post here, have specific objectives we're trying to accomplish, and little posts like that one, are a huge disservice to this Blog, the Contributors.. and the Editor. But since you're so bloody ignorant, you have no clue why I even did it, besided the fact that I was being sincere and I meant it.

      If and when you make a worthwhile contribution too, perhaps you'll be given an honorary mention as well, until then, stop being a big fat jealous baby, wasting my time and more importantly, blog space. THIS BLOG AIN'T ABOUT YOU, NOR IS IT YOUR BLOG. How many times does this need to be repeated to you? So enough with the personal attacks toward AnecTOTE, it ain't her problem feel emasculated.

      Now kindly (Please) F…OFF, so we don't have to keep doing this. (Hopefully, we are FINALLY ..finally, done here).

      The rest of us, please, let's carry on and Thank you.

    6. by AnecTOTE

      "great comment ed. anectote is ruining our blog. she goes as far as to praise racist james wolfe! gives a great insight on what her genuine motives are."

      Go Energizer bunnyyyy. Attacks from you I welcome, proof positive I'm doing some serious damage!! Luv it!!

      Steady now, defending the quebec brand today will be a toughy with all the bad news outa Charbonneau, more proof the FTQ has been in bed with the powers-that-be…OH AND.. lets not forget the latest...Sûreté scandal! That's the "provincial" police…isn't it?….Ain't ya proud??

      go smegmaaaa…lololololol

  22. I wonder if the separatist groups will classify this finding that the governance in Quebec is not sustainable as Quebec-bashing or francophobie. After all, this man is a francophone from a prestigious French-language business school in Montreal. And hey, he said that Quebec did not have enough growth since the early 1980s. What happened? Well, what happened in 1977 in terms of act of the government in Quebec?

    1. Damn, Cutie003 posted the exact same video as I did, just on different link. Oh well. My point about 1977 still stands, though.

    2. @troy

      "I wonder if the separatist groups will classify this finding that the governance in Quebec is not sustainable as Quebec-bashing or francophobie."

      this all depends on if the arguments put forward are good or bad. there are many francophone quebec bashers at hec, one just has to remember infamous martin coiteux, who shut his blog after a debate with jean-francois lisée. so it's not impossible that this dude is one of them.

  23. I'd initially thought that giving tax breaks to loyalist Canadians (aka, migrants from a newly independent Quebec) might be a bad idea, given the potential backlash from citizens of the RoC, who would cry foul if they were not afforded the same advantages.

    However, after some reflection, I believe that the net gain would be in Canada's favour.

    In a post-separation world, funds previously sent to QC as federal transfer payments could instead be used to relocate Canadian patriots who wished to be moved to other provinces, where their future income tax contributions would more than make up for their displacement costs over time.

    1. Captain Obvious,

      I do not think it works that way. While funds previously sent to Quebec is not being sent, the source of the funds itself - revenue from Quebec - does not come as well. Now, while it is the worst kept secret that transfer to Quebec is bigger than revenue from Quebec, the difference may not be enough to cover the tax breaks.

    2. Troy, I think you misread my comment.

      Of course QC comes out ahead in net transfer payments. This is precisely why I say it's feasible to relocate anyone who might wish to remain Canadian.

      As much as a newly-independent QC might want to rid itself of non-pur-laine types, it's unlikely they'd be in a position to fund such an ambitious endeavour.

    3. I have already written the PM requesting that the 20B that they provide to the separatist government in quebec be held in abeyance for those of us that wish to leave this God forsaken place should the PQ get a majority government in the next election and Bill 14 and the Charter are passed. That money would be invaluable to those of us that don't wish to live in an Nazi style country any longer. Everyone on here should do the same and shake the feds up out of their sleep!

    4. @cutie003

      and what did the federal government respond? did they confirm they're keeping twenty billion for you, or did they just laugh?

  24. The sad truth is that, due to the currently derelict wreck that is the Quebec economy...we can barely spare a sole let alone the thousands that will surely leave. That's why this whole thing is so twilight zone to me. The current charter gong show is akin to arguing over what to pack for a trip while the planet is crashing into the sun...

    Even worse. To me it's not how many will leave, it's who. The people with money, you know, the ones who own businesses and typically contribute the most to a society's economy. These people have the most to lose and therefore will likely be the first to leave. I almost hope Quebec separates just so I can look at all the sad little faces when most of the iconic nationalist personalities pack up and leave. They'll feel so betrayed and then hopefully it will finally...FINALLY sink in. This was never about actually separating. It was about power and control. Stop drinking the Kool-Aid and see things for what they really are. Pretty please?

  25. p.s. who is "The Rationalist"? I've been posting as "Rationalist" for a few weeks now...did this person steal my handle or did I steal theirs?

    1. FROM ED
      The other one posting under the titele Rationalist is ANECTOTE. She posts under a variety of titles including; "Hands Of My Hijab" or "Neglected Quebec Economy" " The Natyionalist" and "Anectote." She uses terms that give her writing aweay.
      SDhe knows this is illegal but she doesn't care about rules o the blog. Rules are only for the rest of ud, apparently not her.

    2. By AnecTOTE

      There you go again ed, ASS U ming again. Don't you know that when you ASS U me...bla bla?
      NOW... before I really get mad.

      @Rationalist no. 2

      You'll have to forgive ed...he doesn't like women, especially those who keep reminding him how ignorant and a huge nuisance he and his beloved useless and ineffectual Liberals are. But enough about that misogynist so-and-so.

      I like to think 'the message' is more important than a 'handle' know? But whatever.
      Whoever you are, the other guy has made u look damn good! That's all you should care about..lolol

      Good Luck.

  26. FROM ED
    Justin Trudeau has fired every Lberal Senator. They will all sit as independants having no more to do with the Liberal party.
    Dr.Couillard has shifted into election mode and will take on the PQ in their own backyard. Leave it to the Liberals to make daring moves. I have a feeling we willsee Jean Charest during and after the election. No one knows Quebec investors like he does.
    the tide is turning. Don't waste your time talking about independance or division, it's not going to happen. There will be an election and the winning Liberal party will get us back on our feet. The nightmare will soon be over. Ed

    1. The Libs may win the battle but the war has to end, once and for all.

    2. Agreed Theo - an election is not going to fix what ails this province.

  27. Military families given run-around for access to English education

    Bill 14 is dead but the seppies ares still screwing around.

    1. by AnecTOTE


      This is why I keep stressing and defending Rights and Freedoms. Imagine, that bill was abandoned but because they are in power, they push their weight around like it had passed. How bloody dangerous is that? Do people not see it? It's their Modus Operandi btw, just take what you want anytime you want. AND Let's not forget, they are behaving this way in a minority government.

      Basically, it is up to those families now to go get lawyers and fight this in court. Time and money ..etc…when really.. they just ought to sue for abuse of power.

      People don't get it, they really really don't get it …these bozos need a huge push-back and a wake up call. They've become Fascists right under our noses and no one is making a stink about it. It's a bloody outrage.

      (I'm so annoyed right now)

  28. "I have a feeling we willsee Jean Charest during"

    Les chances de le retrouver à la commission d'enquête sont plus élevées.

  29. By AnecTOTE

    Here's a thought, PRIVATIZE!!!

    No shi*t they can't keep up with the costs...stm pays drivers who sit on their behinds all day 80k a year. People feel it's just cheaper to drive their cars, what's even the point.

    The answer is PRIVATZiSE, for one get rid of the insufferable union.......(yea I that's gonna happen)..,

    1. "stm pays drivers who sit on their behinds all day 80k a year."


      "People feel it's just cheaper to drive their cars..."

      really? who is it that thinks running a car costs less than eighty dollars a month? you?

      "PRIVATZiSE, for one get rid of the insufferable union."

      non-sense. unions are in the private sector too.

      bad comment mate.

    2. There goes Student making statements without back-up.

      The STM does in fact overpay their employees:

      While there are indeed unions in the private sector, they are nowhere nearly as powerful as those in the public sector.

    3. The STM is an emplyment scam.

      They will start a new bus line for 24 passengers per hour. Add up the math. That's totally unsustainable.

      24 passengers per hour does not properly pay for a bus line except when the goal is employment.

      Driving a massive deisel bus that costs a million dollars, fuel costs.

      Assuming NOBODY has a pass and pays cash that $75 per hour absolute max revenue.

      Then you pay the STM driver $40/hr including payroll taxes, health care, retirement etc.

      That leaves you with $35 per hour to pay maintenance, depretiation, gas, parts, replacement cost of the bus, CEO salaries etc.

      Only in Quebec. Brought to you by the same people that did the Bixi debacle.

      There is no business logic here. Nothing is designed to be sustainable. It's only designed to employ union people in an unsustainable way.

      Incompetent or a scam. Either way it's Quebec.

      Is it any wonder that people from the public service are generally unemployable? Look at the decisions they make that they make!

    4. by AnecTOTE


      You bet its a scam. Imagine that they make it next to impossible for cars to drop off people at one of the bus/metro terminals servicing the West Island. They basically force people who will be taking the metro at some point in their journey, to take the bus (from the get-go) to the metro…get it? This way they ensure buses are always full AND lazy-ass drivers keep their jobs. SCAM SCAM SCAM!!!

      Meanwhile, (back at the Ranch), there are HUGE parking lots just outside the northshore and southshore terminals.

    5. google self driving cars branded as Uber will be driving us around driverless long before the Quebec govt ever gets around to building public transport that is useful for west island residents.

      Quebec should just stop wasting money on public transport now and just wait for google to deal with it by launching their self driving cars.

      500 000 Kms without an accident.

      At least google has a track record of accomplishing things.

  30. The author mentions Montreal's high-tech companies, a list on Wikipedia. Ottawa publishes a high-tech directory plus other guides to Ottawa businesses. Does Montreal have similar publications?


  32. the dread
    I don't know how many Quebecers are going to leave, but one thing I know for sure, my university crush might be leaving for Florida when she's done her degree...hard pill to swallow, but there is lot of fishes in the sea...but still, it sucks!!!

    1. "but there is lot of fishes in the sea"

      De moins en moins.

    2. less and less frenchies. soon the assimilation will accelerate.

    3. "assimilation will accelerate"

      Nous le savons depuis des années déjà mais nous essayons de ralentir ce phénomène avec les moyens à notre disposition.

    4. by AnecTOTE

      "Nous le savons depuis des années déjà mais nous essayons de ralentir ce phénomène avec les moyens à notre disposition."

      Translation: Through repressive and coercive language legislation, we will continue to infringe and tyrannize people's Rights & Freedoms, especially since no one puts up a fight.

    5. Vous venez de faire une interprétation pas une traduction.

      Les lois linguistiques sont utilisées partout dans le monde,pas seulement chez nous.

    6. by AnecTOTE

      Shows how little you know. That's how translation works, you interpret the meaning and go from there, you do not perform a direct translation word for word, lol :-)

      Sooooooo ….getting tired of schooling you. Where do I send the invoices again?

    7. "Where do I send the invoices again?"

      À la boutique Victoria secrets de Laval :)

    8. I'm looking forward to assimilating your descendants into the dominant culture as I wipe my ass with the Quebec flag and sing O' Canada!

    9. "O' Canada!"

      La musique a été écrite par Calixa Lavallée et les paroles par Adolphe-Basile Routhier et celà sans mentionner la provenance de "votre" feuille d'érable ;)

      Il restera au moins un petit quelque chose de nous.

  33. Étranglée par son foulard au métro Fabre

    Morale de l'histoire : Évitez de porter des bouts de tissus inutiles

    1. Real funny. What a douchebag comment.

    2. Vous trouvez cet événement "funny" ?

      Une femme est morte étranglée par son hijab...

    3. Please write to pauline to add in the charte of non values that people should be not allowed to wear winter scarves of any kind, long skirts, shoes with laces, etc. They can, too, get caught in the escalator.

      and btw... did the police report mentioned she was wearing a hijab?

    4. Please also include in the "Charte" that seniors are not allowed to smoke in bed if they live in an Old Folks Home. Just sayin, right Sylvain?

    5. @P. Darwinopterus

      Apparently her scarf got caught in the escalator first, then when she bent down her hair got caught in the escalator. If she was wearing a hijab, her hair would not have got caught.

    6. I thought so too, but JdeM stated it was a hijab, but not the police report.

    7. S.R absolutely loves to laugh about Anglo women being raped, 5-year-old Anglo kids choking to death and now, immigrants being strangled.

      And yet, he (like so many other Franco-Narcissists) expect non-separatists to somehow be sympathetic to the plight of the "disappearing" Francophones?


      You couldn't have a clearer picture of the separatist sentiment towards 'les autres' than what you see in S.R's commentary.

      With such vile disdain towards non-French, non-Francophones, I would be 100 times ready to let the French culture perish and disappear from North America than accept letting this kind of mindset flourish.

      As I've said many times before - there are many reasons the sovereignist movement barely gets 30% support - and this attitude is just one of those reasons.

    8. Mon plaisir absolu est de voir des angryphones se faire mettre en cage.

    9. @A.C

      Vous avez oublié l'épisode du sandwiche à la tomate...Épic! Même les policiers se retenaient pour ne pas rire...Devant la caméra.

    10. And our stupid little animal walks right into the trap.

      Bravo S.R!

    11. Haha!...ok

      Vous m'avez eu encore une fois,vous êtes rusé petit chenapan.

    12. This comment has been removed by the author.

  34. This comment has been removed by the author.

  35. MP Lebel speaks about transfer payments and petroleum exploration to growth wealth in Quebec. Bernard Landry and others signed a manifest supporting exploration.

    Meanwhile, the Three Stooges (Marois, Lisee, Drainville) are busy promoting the Charter of Nonsense.

    1. "Charter of Nonsense" ?

      Des soldats d'Allah à l'assaut de Djemila Benhabib

  36. by AnecTOTE

    Well well well…GEE…YA' THINK??

    "...Going into it, party leader Philippe Couillard sensibly declared that the economy will be front and centre in discussions, and that the government’s values charter will not even be on the agenda.

    No doubt the subject will arise, since it is the dominant issue in provincial politics at this juncture, as it has been since details of the initiative first surfaced. But Couillard is bang on in his contention that what the Liberals have to do now is change the political conversation, from the identity issue to the economy…."

    I wonder if they snoop in here to get their stories? (and 2 days late to boot)

  37. Rob Ford se porte à la défense de Justin Bieber


    1. @Editor

      I respectfully request the above post be deleted as any news pertaining to Justin Beiber is completely irrelevant to the subject matter & purposes of this blog. Please feel free to remove my reply-comment as well please, once you removed aforementioned.

      Thank you.

    2. La souveraineté du Québec est directement reliée au canada et sa mentalité fort différente de la nôtre.

    3. "La souveraineté du Québec est directement reliée au canada et sa mentalité fort différente de la nôtre."

      La souveraineté de Montréal Cité-État est directement reliée au quebec et sa mentalité fort différente de la nôtre !


    4. Alors,prenez les moyens nécessaires pour y arriver.

    5. Quebec is run by the FRENCH who have turned it into a deadbeat welfare province.
      Quebec has corrupt FRENCH politicians.
      Quebec has corrupt FRENCH union leaders.
      Quebec has corrupt FRENCH police officers.
      Yet some commentators think that Justin Beiber is relevant to the conversation.

    6. Yet some commentators think that Hitler is relevant to the conversation.

  38. Two more English schools are on their way towards closure...

    Due to declining enrollment, caused by Bill 101, FOUR English high schools are being forced to merge into two (first they're to consolidate the four independent schools into the same building space, then the next phase is to eliminate two of the schools by merging them). Not quite a closure, but it's a step away.

    Two of the schools affected are what's essentially left the former Chomedey Polyvalent High School and Western Laval Junior High, two of my old schools. Western Laval former location was turned into a French-only school years ago...

    1. Ethnic cleansing Quebec style.

      If you speak up or disagree you are bashing Quebec.

      They get to stand on the neck of anglophone society and stamp it out with impunity.

      Meanwhile we are told, "best treated minority" and swallow the narrative that it's best to teach our kids french, as if there is some kind of future here.

      The lamb lobby never went away. They just hide in the Liberal brain trust.

      The Liberals should embrace being the party of Montreal. They can be our new provicial party of Montreal after partition.

      The Liberals that are playing games with the charter can stay in french quebec and go bankrupt.

      Liberals should be embarrassed of becoming a party of hicks and rednecks like the PQ.

    2. Well done french language bigots, keep up the good work...the world is now watching...

    3. The sad part is most Quebecers react by sticking their head in the sand to all these issues of rights. I was talking with a friend this afternoon, about company layoffs, English school closures, hotel closures and Quebec's economy in a downward trend, what is their response? Oh you're too negative, all you want to do is "bash Quebec". And went on to say, "I like it here in Quebec, and have no intention of leaving. I speak French and English perfectly and get along with everyone. If there are negative things I don't want to hear them...why would I want to know about these things if they're just going to bring me down?".

      And on the charter, their response was, "It doesn't affect me personally, so I don't have to worry about it".

      Some people just live in denial. Though I say that's a dangerous thing, these problems won't go away if your ignore them, and every time someone sticks their head in the sand, the other side just takes thing up a notch higher and see how much further they can go.

    4. @Apple IIGS

      Typical narcissist reply - it's all about them. All long as their world is okay, nothing else matters. They have no empathy for others. If they do show any, it's fake empathy.

    5. By AnecTOTE

      @Apple IIGS

      Yeah..your friend will wake up when it hits home for her. Unfortunately human nature is to be reactive rather than proactive. She'll take notice when she has less disposable income cause her taxes keep going up, while others living elsewhere have more disposable income and taking vacations twice a year. I had the exact same conversation recently with a family member who is mostly apolitical a never listens to the news. She keeps reminding me I'm too dramatic about our politics. Then I slapped her with what I just wrote and her smirk turned to a frown, now apparently she reading the paper daily I'm told.

  39. Lisée demande à Lebel d'aider le Québec plutôt que de lui faire la leçon

    Lebel en prend plein la gueule...J'adore!

    1. Lisee is an idiot. Look what the moron wrote in the NY times.

    2. By AnecTOTE

      If all the Feds do is lecture you, count yourselves lucky, as the corporate parents of this country, they should a bare minimimum give u a lengthy time-out to the tune of zero transfer payments for the time being, send you to your room with no supper, (ultimately what you really deserve is a serious thrashing....oui, mais bon...).

    3. Lisée to Lebel "Stop making sense and die with us!"

      "M. Lisée a fait valoir que les Québécois reçoivent, par habitant, la plus petite part de péréquation de tout le Canada."

      How about we invert that point of view? Let's say Canada was a large corporation with many product Proctor & Gamble for instance. P&G produces many different brands of shampoos, some of which do better than others. Care to guess why the Quebec shampoo gets a smaller cut per inhabitant?

      "Puis, il a accusé le gouvernement fédéral d'avoir cessé tout investissement d'importance au Québec depuis très longtemps, alors qu'il soutient à coups de milliards de dollars l'industrie automobile en Ontario, la construction navale dans les provinces maritimes et le développement des sables bitumineux en Alberta."

      These other provinces make sure said industries catch flight post-support. Same cannot be said about Quebec. Case-in-point: Bombardier, which has been leeching tax dollars for years, despite constant layoffs, and has now moved to Russia.

      "Selon M. Lisée, le ministre Lebel ne vient au Québec que pour dire qu'il ne veut pas payer pour un pont fédéral qui est en train de s'écrouler, préférant refiler la facture aux Montréalais par le biais du péage."

      You mean Lebel doesn't want ROC tax dollars contributing to the corruption culture that built these inferior infrastructures
      to begin with?

      There is 0% substance in Lisée's discourse, only words that express dismay at the fact that his federalist counterpart is intellectually superior to him in every way.

  40. Call to ban zombies rises from Charter hearings

    "What scared me the most in my life was a zombie protest," said Line Chaloux, who had spent most of her presentation arguing in favour of the PQ's ban on religious symbols in the public service and the need for a neutral state.

    Organized gatherings of people dressed as zombies, often for fun, have become a marginal trend in several cities across the world. Chaloux says she once found herself in the middle of a zombie march in Paris.

    "We were terribly afraid to see those people circulating freely in the city. I saw toddlers screaming. They were so scared," she points out that the events, which she refers to as protests, have started to take place in Montreal too.

    "These groups, to show their adherence to certain ideologies, go out in the population. And, we are confronted with something we didn't choose. We didn't choose to find ourselves in front of a troop of zombies."

    She says zombie marches should be banned, since a person should not be allowed to protest with their faces covered.

    1. And they wonder why we will NEVER consider ourselves Quebecers. Talk about people that are out to lunch - I mean really, don't they read how stupid they sound?

    2. Hah, speaking of zombies, last night I just happened to watch the 2013 movie "Warm Bodies". It's one of those post apocalyptic films with zombies roaming a decaying world. Guess where it was filmed? Montreal!

      They used the (mostly) abandon Mirabel airport, the (mostly) abandoned Olympic Stadium and the Turcot Exchange to show an abandoned, decaying road system. Well one thing Montreal is perfect for is showing a post apocalyptic world! Doesn't even need CGI effects! So many empty and decaying buildings, white elephant structures sitting unused.

  41. By AnecTOTE

    HOO-HAH...vanity plates coming to quebec, available EN ANGLAIS!! Lol. Can't wait to see what some people will come up

  42. "...although the province will draw up a list of banned words and phrases"

    Évidemment car les actes de vandalisme sur certains véhicules risqueraient d'augmenter.


    “When Bill 101 happened, the Conseil du Patronat came out very strongly against it,” Mr. Drainville told reporters in Quebec City.

    “They used the same argument that they are using today. They said it would harm the economy. --->>>>> Well, is there anyone who can really claim that Bill 101 harmed the economy <<<<---?”