 |
| Drainville: 'Really, my dear....You don't say.....' |
I hope I have the discipline to ignore the whole sad affair completely, because participating in the farce is as dangerous as offering evidence for the defence in the Salem witch trials, when the fix is in and the outcome pre-ordained.
No doubt the media, both French and English, will breathlessly follow each submission and dutifully report on the the give and take of the debate each day as if it somehow matters....
It doesn't.
Bernard Drainville has already announced that he isn't going to make any real changes and perhaps we should take him at his word.
You don't have to be a soothsayer to predict a Spring election with the Charter as the only issue the PQ dares proffer. It's a decent strategy, perhaps the only separatist option left as the province tanks under the relentless incompetence of the PQ amateurs and fools.
And so taking the hearings seriously and debating the merits of each submission with the chance of it affecting the outcome is about as useful as discussing what strategy the Washington Generals should employ in order to beat the Harlem Globetrotters.
For those who haven't had the pleasure of watching the Generals get humiliated each and every time they faceoff against the Globetrotters, watch this video to understand what it means when the fix is in and the outcome set.
This sordid theatre of the absurd reminds me of those action movie scenes where an innocent victim futilely pleads for his life on bended knee before a Mafia hit man.
The entire movie audience could tell the sucker not to bother begging, because we all know what is coming, a cold bullet between the eyes, followed by a witty and sarcastic rejoinder by a heartless fiend who couldn't care less.
Sorry, I won't beg, nor play the role of the dupe, that Drainville and company has assigned us.
To Drainville I say.....
Do your worst and let us get on with it. The battle is ahead and that is the one we need to gear up for.
If every witness who was scheduled, looked at the inquisitors in stony silence instead of pleading like a baby, just plain staring in defiance, we would at least preserve our pride.
But it ain't gonna happen because when it comes down to it, we're suckers who just cannot resist a podium.
To all those who appear and think they will make a difference, they are probably right, but not in the way they expect.
They will in fact be aiding and abetting Drainville in his clever charade, empowering and legitimizing a travesty.
Innocent dupes, fulfilling a role.... Sorry, count me out.
FROM ED
ReplyDeleteI'm with you Editor> I have nothing worthwhile posting until an election is called. Ed
i'm with you ed.
DeleteOne thing is certain, ED: they are so insecure that they need to pass a law and invent a non-existent problem to shape a sort of identity of theirs...at the expenses of the others, of course.
DeleteNothing else to say: the circus is in town...
@newca
Deletedude by denying french canadian identity you are legitimizing quebec's need for independance. had you ever considered this before throwing your booger?
You are so wrapped up in your small deluded identity-based Franco world that you haven't got a clue about the extent of the damage your PQ has been causing to the province. Deluded and unbelievably stupid.
Delete@newca
Deletereally? what did i miss?
Charte des valeurs: la Sûreté du Québec fait des vérifications au sujet d'un internaute qui suggère de régler le débat avec un AK-47
ReplyDeletehttp://www.journaldemontreal.com/2014/01/15/charte-des-valeurs-la-surete-du-quebec-fait-des-verifications-au-sujet-dun-internaute-qui-suggere-de-regler-le-debat-avec-un-ak-47
Je crois que M.Seniw sous estimait l'efficacité des captures d'écran ( screenshots).
From Ann,
ReplyDeleteYes, the hearings are a farce. Yes the hearings are degrading to minorities. However, the people who are going there to speak out against the charter are not at all wasting their time. It has to be on record that people fought for civil rights. It is the collective burying the head in the sand and not speaking out that has resulted in the successful laws against the English language and the continued picking on anglophones which continues today. The communities need to rise up and fight, even if that means going to these hearings. The people who are speaking out against the charter at the hearings are doing it for the record, are doing it because it is right to fight against injustice. The PQ is mocking everyone including their supporters. You don't think they are laughing behind the backs of those who are spewing out utter nonsense in support of the charter? The PQ is laughing at the gullibility of their own supporters as well. That is the evil of the PQ...they don't care about anyone or anything except for power. I take my hats off to all those who are swallowing their distaste for the proceedings and presenting briefs against the charter in order to show support for the civil rights of those who are being threatened.
Contrary to most blogs, where opinions opposed to that of the author's are generally redacted, I am actually quite thrilled when people make good arguments against my position.
DeleteI am pleased to read the views literate readers of sound judgment, who write well and argue fairly and convincingly.
This is what debate is and i encourage those who disagree to make case as above.
One thing I will not do is my position as Editor to bludgeon those opposed to position and so I am happy to let the above comment stand on its own, where readers can opine on both sides of the argument.
As far as I'm concerned Ann is right - we all know it's a farce but silence is not the way to treat this debacle either. Silence would, yet again, especially to the separatist press, give the impression that we do not care that they are continuously removing rights and deliberately going against the Canadian Constitution in an effort to separate from Canada pointing out that Canada is holding them back from achieving their goals to rule by public opinion rather than for the good of all citizens that live in this putrid province. That impression must not be allowed to stand! Good for all that go and present briefs against this disgusting and racist charter!
DeleteOhhhh Editor, I don't think this is going to be your last post on this unwisely spent exercise in futility. I have responded to other contributors below. Indubitably there will be a whole cavalcade of intelligent and well-meaning individuals addressing this travesty but more likely an array of nincompoops, dolts and hicks spewing infinite gibberish to fortify the idiocy of these hearings and the creators of its raison d'être.
DeleteBy AnecTOTE
DeleteI am completely with Ann. iT MUST be on record that the other side showed up to voice their view so that the PQ cannot smugly say..."See ...we are democratic, we offered the opportunity and no one bothered to show up...and maybe some argument they would have provided would have changed our minds and we could have come to some sort of compromise...." ....Bla bla bla...do you see where this is going? In the end, ...damned if you do and damned if you don't...and yes...Editor is also correct when he says this is nothing but lip service and a big charade and we are all being played....Fake Tom Hague has engineered a travesty which...I would add, he will have to live with but we all know the jerk has no soul. In the end, this will not end well for anyone, but how to mitigate that outcome?
So...I repeat......the strategy on this end should be to keep embarrassing them. Shine a big spotlight on their utter incompetence for which..let's admit ..they provide plenty of fodder!!!! Dumb-asses they are and insidious to boot.
FROM ED
ReplyDeleteEDITOR, S.R. agrees with me He doesn't have anthing worth posting either. Ed
are you s.r? i must remind you ed that multiple nicknames are not allowed on this blog.
DeleteThe hearings give the PQ the illusion of legitimacy by pretending to be a democratic exercise while in reality it's a farce. Watch, 30 years hence in the history books they will be able to point and claim that this putrid legislation was born of serious debate, which we know is false. The PQ are going through the motions, that's it, that's all. They failed to produce one single study backing their claims on the urgency of this charter. Everyone in the room knows it's part of an election strategy and a stunt designed to fail the legal and constitutional smell test. People and institutions opposed to it should be boycotting the whole event, similar to the boycott of the politically motivated Ménard inquiry into student protests. I can't wait for the election to come fast enough so we can vanquish the PQ yet again.
ReplyDeleteBut L.D., what if the superhicks and country bumpkins living in Dolbeau-Missini, St-Félicien and Hérouxville with a Muslim population zero and ever so growing at a zero rate choose to eat up this gup and vote PQ as a result?
DeleteFrom Ann,
Delete@Lord Dorchester. Boycotting won't do any good. The PQ will claim victory and twist everything around to suit their purpose. They spew out lies and misinformation no matter what the other side says or does. Look at that ridiculous article Lisee wrote in the New York Times. Misinformation and distortion of the truth. They want what they want and they don't care what they have to do to get it...even if it means destroying the province. They don't care about Quebecers, they don't care about the Quebec, they are in it for power and glory. When a community is being threatened, the right response is to stand up and fight with them...boycotting the hearings will only allow the rednecks to spew out their venom without any rebuttal.
@ann
Delete"
"Look at that ridiculous article Lisee wrote in the New York Times. Misinformation and distortion of the truth."
i thought the article was really good. can you please tell me which part you consider ridiculous misinformation please? (of course you'll have to read it first)
http://tinyurl.com/khzvlx9
One fundamental thing which makes Quebec undemocratic is that Montreal and the Greater Montreal area do not have a proportionally equal number of seats to population ratio in the National assemble. This means that the true voice of Quebec is never heard and our PQ loving supporters then claim that the people have spoken. Now for those who will claim that the same is true at the Federal level, I would like to point out that Quebec has a disproportionate number of seats however they have more seats than than their population justifies. Only one way to salvage Montreal and that is to disassociate itself from the Province and obtain special status, the 11th province perhaps.
DeleteWhy Lisee's NYT op-Ed was misleading.
Deletehttp://blogs.montrealgazette.com/2014/01/14/lisees-inclusiveness/
@student
DeleteOf course you think it's good. You've already demonstrated that you cannot read two paragraphs without completely misunderstanding what they are about.
Lisée stretched and distorted every fact like the well-trained Jesuit he is. I especially liked how three years ago he was very upset about the French population of Montreal dropping to 47% -- yet now he claims that the viewpoint of those same francophones matters more than the views of everyone else on the island.
An honest man who is not trying to foment division would look at the population of the island as a whole, and straight up declare that 7 out of 10 Montrealers oppose the Charter.
-Kevin
@kevin
Deletei think you are intelligent, so that's why i think your last comment was impregnated with bad faith. let me explain for others that could believe that you actually are serious. lisée's point is that the charter gets more support in montreal than in the "hinterlands", all other variables kept constant. other variables in this case include language and culture. by comparing the opinion of francophones in montreal to the opinion of francophones outside montreal you make sure that the results reflect the influence of only one factor: proximity with ostentacious symbols such as kippas, tchaddors and other magic clothing. if you mix in other variables such as language and religions in the populations you're comparing you won't be able to study the desired parameter.
this number used by lisée in his article is extremely important and useful for high quality observers because they could be tempted to believe your shit argument based on bulk numbers that says city against, countryside for or urbanites against and farmers for. that's simpleton analysis. now you knon kevin.
are there any other parts of lisée long article that seem like "ridiculous misinformation" and "truth distortion" in your humble opinion kevin?
"magic clothing"
DeleteMdr!
By AnecTOTE
Delete@Kevin
Love it when you put that little putrid shit on the defense. She has to actually stop being a troll for a moment and offer up some kind of argument thus validating that you have made an excellent point! Well done!!!...Naturally all she can provide is a bad one since that's her speciality...but all in all, it was most entertaining!!! Thank you for sticking it to her LOLOLOLOLOL, alway fun to see a swat being taken to an annoying fly.
"Love it when you put that little putrid shit on the defense"
DeleteVotre religion est bien basé sur l'amour d'autrui,nest-ce pas ?
Loll
@student
DeleteNo bad faith, I'm just recognizing a truth-twisting person.
Listen up padawan, Lisée is saying straight up, in the utmost of dog-whistle politics, that the opinions of non-francophones don't matter.
And let's be honest, you are saying the same thing.
Looking at proximity to religious garb by controlling for language and culture? Bullshit.
Lisée is braying like the ethnic superiorist* he is that the opinions of those who disagree don't matter, and here's how to dance on a pinhead to get the result he wants.
Because really, if he wanted to know how people feel about religious symbols, he'd poll the good francophones of Val David and see how they feel about the Jews in their midst.
It all comes down to one simple thing: you can either accept facts, or you can twist them to your purpose.
Dismissing every mayor and every serious mayoral candidate of every city on the island denouncing the Charter, and polls showing that 7 out of 10 people on the island think the Charter is a putrid disgrace, while pretending it *really* shows that the city is the most fervent hotbed of intolerance in Quebec? You, my dear student, are a disgrace to your profession.
*Since our beloved minister in charge of this farce has banned the term racism, which assumes that French-Quebecers can be defined as a race. If anyone's got a better word I'm open to it.
-Kevin
By AnecTOTE
Delete""Votre religion est bien basé sur l'amour d'autrui,nest-ce pas ? Loll""
We can't love all things now...can we? How would we differentiate, between the Good, the Bad and the profusely UGLY? But..speaking for myself, I have a huge aversion for Players, ....disingenuous Ass holes who try and pull fast ones or try to sell you a load of crap. It gives me no end of joy calling them out on their BS. Truth be told ..I feel this as a personal responsibility and obligation to free the world from such evil! Lol
Regardless of which side of this ridiculous debate you might find yourself on, you have to admit it that it's completely negligent for a government to spend this much time and energy )read money) on hearings while at the same time saying that they will absolutely not accept any changes to the bill. So the hearings are merely a chance to bitch or support on this piece of crap bill? That's it? How can anyone trust a government that operates like this?
ReplyDeleteLet us also not forget that we are supposed to be living in a democracy. Public hearings are a part of the process when tabling a bill. The purpose of which is to get opinions and advice on it before it is officially voted on. The government is, after all, meant to represent the people. These hearings are designed to facilitate exactly that! To start off the hearings by saying essentially that they don't care what is said (by the people) and we're going through with it anyways, defied all rational and logical thought...not to mention that it's completely undemocratic. This on top of ignoring Quebec's very own Bar Society as well as the Humane Rights Commission advice from the very beginning of this train wreck...the fallacy, ignorance and blatant arrogance is piled so high I can't even see the top!
That said, I have hope that this charade is going to come around full circle and bite them in the ass. When charter supporters start seeing footage of people making logical arguments in these hearings that will fall on completely unsympathetic ears and change nothing...people are bound to start smelling the sh*t. Drainville's arrogance isn't exactly opaque. For the first time in months, I'm starting to feel the shift. I have a lot of faith in the people of Quebec. Many of them seem easily swayed when the government plays to their romantic sentimental hearts....those hearts might just start to go out to the innocent victims in this whole charade as they plead to have their rights protected while they are on stage for everyone to see.
Rationalist: You wrote in the first paragraph "it's completely negligent for a government to spend this much time and energy (read money) on hearings. My response to you: AS IF!
DeleteIn the second paragraph, you wrote "Let us also not forget that we are supposed to be living in a democracy. Public hearings are a part of the process when tabling a bill. The purpose of which is to get opinions and advice on it before it is officially voted on. The government is, after all, meant to represent the people. These hearings are designed to facilitate exactly that!. In democracy there also exists the kangaroo courtt. There is no shortage of kangaroo courts in Quebec, especially trials that dare preside wholly or partially in English. Call these hearings what you want. I guess chimpanzee hearings is a suitable term in this case.
Where are chimpanzees found? Mostly at zoos and circuses. So here you have legislation that a chimpanzee could have written with more thought and logic and the hearings are taking place in a circus with the ringmaster in tow.
@ Mr. Sauga:
DeleteI'm confused...you seem to disagree with my first paragraph, but then kind of agree with me later on...I think :S What exactly do you disagree with in my first paragraph?
@the rationalist
Delete"Regardless of which side of this ridiculous debate..."
that's a surprising opinion. not so many people in the whole universe think church state separation (or not) is a ridiculous debate.
"...while at the same time saying that they will absolutely not accept any changes to the bill."
that's a surprising opinion too. as if you didn't get basic political strategy, or even basic negociation strategy. if he said now, before the hearings, that he's ready to change his bill, he wouldn't have the choice but to do so later on, and all the discussion would steer towards what changes will be made. by being clear about it now, he leaves all options open, including changes if ever an intelligent argument is made against some aspect of the bill during the hearings. going public with a will to tone down his thing before the hearings would be stupid, and the pq is not stupid. are you?
@student
DeleteSorry, just catching my breath!
You actually made a valid point and backed it up! Not at all on your first point, but the second one actually reads like an articulated argument. Bravo. However, you did decide to make it personal at the end...I'm not sure why you feel the need to do that :( Let me break this down for you. Considering the overwhelming division this bill has caused, with roughly a 50/50 split in support/against, plus the fact that the public bodies who's domain is to advise on matters such as this (Quebec Human Rights Commision and Quebec Bar Association) have been completely ignored...I think we're way past "Political Strategy", don't you? The PQ are in jeopardy of upsetting HALF the population. If you think that a bill like this passing will lead to anything but riots in the streets, you are living in a dream world. Or is that what you actually want? Besides, when you have these organizations advising against it because it's blatantly unconstitutional and completely illegal, even if they do vote on it and it wins, it simply won't hold up in court. Thus, all this clever positioning you seem to elude to, is nothing short of a circus side show entertaining us before the main event. Let me ask you a straight question and I challenge you to give me a straight answer in return. Sound fun?
How do you justify the PQ's decision to ignore the advisements of the QHRC and QBA?
Please don't insult us with some garbage response. I really want to know what you think.
" If you think that a bill like this passing will lead to anything but riots in the streets, you are living in a dream world."
Deleteare you gonna riot mate?
"Or is that what you actually want?"
no.
"How do you justify the PQ's decision to ignore the advisements of the QHRC and QBA?"
first the human rights advice. well they basically say the proposed law goes against existing charter of rights. so the pq proposes to change it. seems fair to me. this document wasn't written by god or some other oracle. i don't see a problem in changing it when need be. society evolves, what seemed all right years ago may not be all right today.
then the lawyers. of course it may be deemed unconstitutional. do i need to remind you that the pq is separatist? and that the constitution was never accepted by any quebec government, even the federalist ones? i think it's to be expected then that what quebec wants to do sometimes clashes with this document. it's not a reason not to go forward with projects. if the thing is killed by some court of law later on, well it's gonna be another good argument for separation. and a valid one in my humble opinion. here again, the constitution was not written by god, if it needs to be amended well amend it for rené levesque's sake. and you have to ask yourself an even better question: by whom should legislation be steered, elected legislators or nine named judges?
FROM ED
DeleteRATIONALIST, Saugas likesto twist your words and aregue with something you did not say./
Sauga says "you wrote in the first paragraph "it's completely negligent for a government to spend this much time and energy (read money) on hearings. My response to you: AS IF!"
He purposey left out what you really said " Ity's completely negligent for a government to spend this much time and energy )read money) on hearings while at the same time saying that they will absolutely not accept any changes to the bill." You makes perfect sense. Ignore sauga, he's as straight up as student. Ed
O little town of Bethlehem, how still we see thee lie!
Above thy deep and dreamless sleep the silent stars go by.
Yet in thy dark streets shineth the everlasting Light;
The hopes and fears of all the years are met in thee tonight.
For Christ is born of Mary, and gathered all above,
While mortals sleep, the angels keep their watch of wondering love.
O morning stars together, proclaim the holy birth,
And praises sing to God the King, and peace to men on earth!
How silently, how silently, the wondrous Gift is giv’n;
So God imparts to human hearts the blessings of His Heav’n.
No ear may hear His coming, but in this world of sin,
Where meek souls will receive Him still, the dear Christ enters in.
Where children pure and happy pray to the blessèd Child,
Where misery cries out to Thee, Son of the mother mild;
Where charity stands watching and faith holds wide the door,
The dark night wakes, the glory breaks, and Christmas comes once more.
O holy Child of Bethlehem, descend to us, we pray;
Cast out our sin, and enter in, be born in us today.
We hear the Christmas angels the great glad tidings tell;
O come to us, abide with us, our Lord Emmanuel!
Bethlehem, Church of the Nativity, 1886
Беларуская | Español | Français | 한국어 | മലയാളം | Русский | Shqip | ภาษาไทย
[ Back ] [ Home ] [ Up ] [ Next ]
12/19/2013 20:29:31
PAGE DESIGN & CODE © 1996-20
@student
DeleteFirst of all, I would like to enthusiastically and sincerely thank you for actually answering my question with an actual answer. Regarding your point of view, I have this to say:
Forget about what I might do, the question is do you believe that if the charter passes people will just accept it? Will it be business as usual except sans religious symbols? Yes or No? Please explain why.
Do you recognize that fundamental human rights and freedoms are protected beyond our Canadian border and removing them would be an infringement on international treaties? Also, it's not just the Canadian Charter of Freedoms but Quebec's own charter that would need to be amended...amended in a way that removes basic human rights no less...you and others like you put your own personal crusades and desires before other's human rights. Seems completely fair. If this is a glimpse of how Quebec will continue to operate, it sounds like if it separates it's going to be such a nice cheery place. Good luck with the tourism industry!
May I remind you that both of these professional organizations are in fact composed of citizens of Quebec...not some politicians in Ottawa. So these aren't just bureaucrats and lawyers that are against this charter...these are home grown, educated Quebecois...your very own kin! Are they your enemy too? What about all the ex PQ Premiers that have come out against the charter? Would you label them as "out of touch" or "traitorous"? So, saying that because a bunch of grumpy politicians couldn't agree on a document that wasn't signed for highly political reasons, Quebec can just do what it likes and make up it's own rules without any regard to the rest of the country? The country being Canada...the one who signs those big transfer cheques every year to help Quebec out...you know...the same country that provides this province with currency and a great many other things. Man, maybe I should be a separatist too. This world where you get to have your cake and eat it all the time sounds GREAT!
One final thing. Everything I've ever read about Rene Levesque indicates to me that he was a staunch supporter of human rights and freedoms. He wasn't perfect, but my impression of him was that he was highly intelligent, compassionate and just. Please don't associate such a great man and one of Quebec's greatest heroes with a charter that he would surely have been against. It's embarrassing.
@rationalist
Delete"...the question is do you believe that if the charter passes people will just accept it?"
i haven't heard anyone say they'll riot. many scare tactics enthusiasts like you propose this outcome, but no sign of this being valid yet. that's why i asked you. if you had told me you're gearing up for rioting you'd have been the first and i would have had to acknowledge that rioting is in the books for some freaks.
"Will it be business as usual except sans religious symbols? Yes or No? Please explain why."
government is not a business, but i still understand your question, and the answer is yes. because people will choose their jobs over religious fashion shows. that's what i expect.
"Do you recognize that fundamental human rights and freedoms are protected beyond our Canadian border and removing them would be an infringement on international treaties?"
i don't recognize wearing religious garb at work to be a fundamental right. and i know for a fact that banning them would not be an infringement on any international treaty as many countries, namely france and turkey, have had tougher laws on state secularity for a long time.
"it sounds like if it separates it's going to be such a nice cheery place. Good luck with the tourism industry!"
i don't understand your argument about the tourism industry. peeple would come less to quebec if government employees don't wear ostentacious religious symbols on them? wtf? it's been like that in france for a hundred years and they're doing just fine with tourism.
"...these (bar lawyers and human rights commisioners) are home grown, educated Quebecois...your very own kin! Are they your enemy too?"
no they are not. i hope i don't have an enemy mate. are you my enemy?
"What about all the ex PQ Premiers that have come out against the charter?"
they are worried to lose potential yes voters with the charter. says little about their uninterested opinion on the bill. by the way they are all for a ban of religious symbols for police, judges and other "authority" jobs. that's not far from the pq position. not one of them is a free for all promoter like you. i wonder why you invoke their opinions.
"Would you label them as "out of touch" or "traitorous"?
no, not at all. gilles duceppe is tops. so is parizeau. landry also has a sharp mind. but you have to keep an eye on bouchard. he has had highs and lows.
"...because a bunch of grumpy politicians couldn't agree on a document that wasn't signed for highly political reasons, Quebec can just do what it likes and make up it's own rules without any regard to the rest of the country?"
no it can't. that's the problem. that's why there is a powerful independantist current in quebec. and being condescendant about the 1982 constitution scandal does not help mate.
"the one who signs those big transfer cheques every year to help Quebec out...you know...the same country that provides this province with currency and a great many other things."
this has nothing to do with the present discussion. you're wandering off. let's see if you come back to relevancy.
"Man, maybe I should be a separatist too."
you do!
"Please don't associate such a great man and one of Quebec's greatest heroes with a charter..."
Deletei mentioned him because he was the one that got backstabed by the rest of canada in 1982. and you mentioned the canadian constitution as an obstacle to the secularity charter. if the canadian constitution needs to be changed in order for this piece of law to hold on well it could be an opportunity for the same rest of canada to redeem itself for what it did to rené lévesque in the time. i think i am totaly entitled to bring the dude forward in this context. plus i have not dared speculate on what he would have thought about the charter but you did. similar to calling over the infamous silent majority like anectote always does. how convenient that ghosts and silent people don't speak, bad debaters can have them say whatever they wish!
@Student
DeleteI find it most amusing that you think it's okay to have religious rules dominating the lives of humanity. Imma remember that one.
-Kevin
Thank you!
ReplyDeleteKim
ReplyDeleteIf a person places his or her own religion before his or her job or the law...well he or she should not be in the public domain! in definition he or she is not neutral and visibly showing it! Do you see people who are working in the media in North American wearing religious symbols?? If they were, it would not make them creditable! If you want the job adhere to the dress code period!!
Please enlighten us about the "law" regarding what a person can or cannot wear. Also, what is an accecptable dress code in your opinion? And also please explain how what another person wears affects you personally? Where do we stand on belly-shirts? What about visible thong straps? Does that fall under accecptable or not? Are Maori face tattoos considered religious? What about African tribal face scars? Hmmmm? Here's an idea, how about you mind your own business and let others live and let live?
DeleteVous manquez cruellement de jugement JF.Toutes les entreprises ont leur code vestimentaire.Avez-vous déjà vu un Maori à face tatouée travailler au comptoir d'une banque?
DeleteKim a raison.
From Ann
Delete@Kim...what you don't seem to understand is that this law is just the beginning. It has caused vigilantes to assault women wearing hijabs on buses and walking down the street. It is state-sanctioned bigotry which will ultimately be extended out on the streets and in private companies. Drainville has even stated that he would like to see this extended to the private sector. Also it is not only people who work for the government directly, but anyone who has a contract with the government. Moreover, another danger is that this will be applied to clients of government services. Once you start down this road, it will ultimately spiral out of control. World history, and Quebec's own history with the Padlock law shows how these things end up with a life of their own and everyone ends up being picked on. Down the road it might be your rights once the government has no more immigrants and anglophones to pick on.
"Avez-vous déjà vu un Maori à face tatouée travailler au comptoir d'une banque?"
DeleteActually, while in San Francisco, I was once served by a teller at Chase Manhattan bank whose neck was almost completely covered in tribal tattoos.
But then again, I wouldn't expect a backwards-thinking movement like the separatist movement to match the progressive nature of San Fran.
Avez-vous finalement réussi à découvrir jusqu'où il était tatoué ce gros San-Franciscain?
DeleteTourlou Cowy ;)
By AnecTOTE
Delete"Down the road it might be your rights once the government has no more immigrants and anglophones to pick on."
My dear Ann, this is my entire argument, and the one I keep putting forth time and time again...but the ignoramuses believe they are safe and blindly trust those in power to always do right by them...poor stupid stiffs. When racism and emotions prevail over Logic ..you deserve what you get. How sad though, in this day and age to realize man hasn't evolved one single bit, and no real lessons have ever been learnt from the past. If we had, the losers in power would not be trying to pull this off...they would know better...that the general population doesn't stand for that crap. But ultimately...people are vile and basically don't give a damn about things they perceive do not affect them directly and behave passively...UNTIL the same thing that affected others ..now affects them...and they thing they ignored before ..suddenly becomes relevant except that now it is too late. Doesn't absolute stupidity astonish you?
"blindly trust" "emotions prevail over Logic" " in this day and age to realize man hasn't evolved one single bit"
DeleteVous parlez de religion,n'est-ce pas?
Loll
By AnecTOTE
DeleteYou know better and yet you play dumb s.r. I've actually seen little sparks there but your emotional injury is far too embedded, it's too bad, there is potential ....remote...but potential none-the- less...to emerge from this...arrested development. The saddest thing of all..is that....you can't help yourself. Your emotions unfortunately are a religion TO YOU.
Maybe one day you will grow up and decide to join the adults in the real world...fits of rage which you try to mask with silly little humor are getting..(yawn) ..old.
From CTV:
ReplyDeletePolice have arrested a man for making threats against the National Assembly. Montreal resident Daniel Seniw, 58, was questioned by police Wednesday night. Seniw is alleged to have posted a message on his Facebook page saying the Charter of Values issue would go away if someone stormed the National Assembly with an AK-47. The threat is a clear reference to the incident that occurred May 8, 1984 in the National Assembly, where three people died and thirteen others were injured. Rene Levesque, premier at the time, was the intended target. The Surete du Quebec said making such threats, even online or in jest, is a crime. Seniw will appear at the Montreal courthouse Thursday.
I don't care how infantile my next comment is...
ReplyDeleteHahahaha! Eat shit seppies!!:
"le Barreau du Québec n'approuve aucune des mesures prévues par son projet de loi sur les «valeurs de laïcité». Bien au contraire, il critique jusqu'à son titre: «[...] la notion de "valeur" est inappropriée pour décrire l'objet de ce projet de loi.»
http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/dossiers/charte-de-la-laicite/201401/15/01-4729162-le-barreau-taille-en-pieces-le-projet-de-charte.php
i knew that the new law went against a few existing laws. that's why pq intends to change the laws. legislators do that all the time mate. weren't you aware?
Delete@Anonymous Coward
DeleteDon't forget that this is Quebec so that would be: Mange la merde seppies!!
@Théo Soizo
DeleteL' expression (bien sentie) est : Mange un char de marde.
http://quebec.huffingtonpost.ca/monia-mazigh/commission-charte-inutile_b_4604465.html
ReplyDeleteMulcair is on TV saying he is against the charter - wow - I'm surprised considering that he's for 50+1.
ReplyDeleteCutie003,
DeleteSince the beginning, all members of the House of Commons minus the BQ 4 are against the Charter affirming the values of State secularism and religious neutrality and the equality between women and men, and providing a framework for accommodation requests. So I find no surprise here.
They usually start to wiggle around when it comes to making a stand - that's what I find surprising - should have made my statement clearer I guess. I find the NDP are especially good at wiggling when it suits them. I hope they all stick by their guns.
Delete@cutie003
Deletei agree, well sometimes he's good and sometimes he's not. he nailed it for the definition of democracy, but missed it about the priests as government employees.
Meanwhile in Quebec, as the charter debate stirs...
ReplyDeleteSears Canada eliminating 800 jobs at Montreal call centre
http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/sears-canada-eliminating-800-jobs-at-montreal-call-centre-1.1642437#ixzz2qacFeCmT
Héroux-Devtek to lay off 55 people at its Longueuil facility
http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/H%C3%A9rouxDevtek+people+Longueuil+facility/9394882/story.html
225 layoffs, as Benjamin News to close after 97 years
http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/benjamin-news-to-close-after-97-years-1.1634275
Montreal CGI Group to lose main Obamacare contract to Accenture
http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/Group+lose+main+Obamacare+contract+Accenture+reports/9374483/story.html
Apple IIGS
DeleteSeppies in the hinterland with no teeth don;t have jobs. They have no need for them. they don;t even understand why they should care. Their UI and Welfare checks printed in French is all they care about.
Francophones with 1950's Drummonville mindset show up in Montreal and want to know why it's not Francophone Quebec Disneyland.
They expect Montreal to maintain a Francophone Disneyland for their once a year visit from the boonies to get their teeth fixed.
Why don;t you understand being French to the core is more important then anythign else. Seppies would rather we sit in a mud hut reading francophone poems by candlelight then join the rest of the world in a modern society.
IT's a wonder they can log into their computer with all the english words that come up. It must drive them crazy to know just beyond what they see 100% of the computer is in english.
Lets not forget the total fiction that Bill 101 and the language is "settled".
http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/Poll+shows+Bill+divides+province+decades+after+passage/9384670/story.html
70% of "other" consider it a super bad idea even after all these years.
Quebec is two solitudes. The seppies aren;t getting any closer to reality.
@adanac
Delete"...It must drive them crazy to know..."
Je crois que c'est vous qui devenez fou quand vous voyez autant de français affiché dans notre cité,non?
"...the rest of the world in a modern society."
Quoi ?!? ... Mdr!
CJAD reports that England's Cinesite, a film effects outfit, is creating 200 jobs in Montreal. Marois is flying to England to see them. Cinesite had laid off people in April 2013. They appear to be a company searching worldwide for cheap labour and government handouts. New jobs maybe for Quebec, but likely short-term jobs. For every good news story about jobs in Quebec, there are several bad news stories.
Deletehttp://www.cjad.com/cjad-news/2014/01/15/special-effects-firm-coming-to-montreal
Just imagine how Pauline ego and pride must suffer for having to grovel in England of all places.
DeleteThe modern world requires people that speak english or potlish or whatever one of the trolls is on about.
Knowing 1000 words of badly spoken english is far more valuable to succeed in the modern world then a perfect understanding of french.
Doesn;t matter what country you live in.
Unless you want to be a union bus driver or a quebec construction worker you need english to succeed.
Scientific papers, stock prospectus, internet etc.
Seppies can rant and rave all they want but their version of reality is giving them no jobs and no future.
Combine the obsession with language over normal concerns and an anti-everything attitude it's not any wonder why Quebec is in the trouble it is.
Any con artist that proposes to do something "french first" gets funded in Quebec. The mind goes blank as a wave of happiness settles in. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soma for seppies.
"1000 words of badly spoken english" = Globish
Delete"Just imagine how Pauline ego and pride must suffer for having to grovel in England of all places"
DeleteTout à fait normal de communiquer en globish en Angleterre comme il est tout à fait normal de communiquer en français au Québec.L'anglais est une langue étrangère chez nous.
SR -
DeleteThink about what would happen if Quebec seperates. You would have much weaker poorer country..probably 1 million people or so would leave..many of them the richest and brightest. You would be saddled with a massive debt. The economy would be a total disaster with mass unemployment. There likely would be a debt crisis. The governmnent of Canada would move thousands of high paying jobs out of Quebec further impoverishing the province. I am not even sure Canada would let Quebec use the Canadian dollar. I know I wouldnt.
A poorer weaker Quebec would be even more hardpressed to protect the french language. Quebec would be forced to trade more and open its doors to private foreign investment. They will not be able to rely just on France to help them hence in many ways they will be required to use english even more with many of these private entities. Remeber that France is even in worse financial shape than Quebec..on the verge of a debt crisis. It will be the private enterprises calling the shots if Quebec wants investment so forget about them trying to speak french.
A poorer more dependant Quebec means that english will be required even more to do business with the rest of the world. The rest of Canada will remove french as one of the official languages hence even fewere canadians will speak french and canada will be in a much stronger financial position since they wont have to send 10-15 billion dollars per year to Quebec anymore. Many desperate Quebecois who cant find work will move to Canada where they will have no language protection rights whatsoever.
If Quebec wants to protect their language they need to make Quebec a powerful econonmy..an economy that other parts of the world need to do business with. In fact it is almost the total opposite now with Quebec being the poorest province in Canada and even poorer if they seperate.
The logic is so clear..just look at what happened after 1976..the economic hit that Montreal took was staggering and we still see the results today..chronically high unemployment..among the lowest average salary in canada..high debt..mass corruption..crumbling infrastructure. The results of full seperation will be 5 times worse and the irony is that the french language will be even under more threat as a weak poor quebec will be too desperate and poor to defend it.
Complicated.
DeleteThey don;t care if Quebec is "weaker" or has no jobs as long as their sensitive ears and pride is sheltered from globish.
SR seems to think english is foreign in Quebec. He needs to revisit some history about who got their asses kicked.
The english *LET* you keep your language, not take over and pretend you were there first and it's "all yours" to ruin a couple hundred years later.
Lessons:
1] Never negotiate with terrorists or seppies
2] Don;t give seppies an inch cause they take a mile.
The english nicely let the french live and keep their language after getting beaten. Now seppies show their lack of good will by trying to supress and remove all the english.
It's like to them the war never ended and nobody told them they lost.
By AnecTOTE
Delete"Tout à fait normal de communiquer en globish en Angleterre comme il est tout à fait normal de communiquer en français au Québec.L'anglais est une langue étrangère chez nous."
I agree that is the situation in Quebec, but speaking for Montreal City-State that is not true. We officially recognize bilingualism to be our creed and embrace it completely. We look forward to a bright and strong Future ahead with French and English living side by side in mutual respect. We are an evolved Life Form from the Roq and we mean to keep it that way.
Long live Montreal City-State. Trail Blazers for a brave new world!
By AnecTOTE
Delete"It's like to them the war never ended and nobody told them they lost."
They are still losing. They continue to lose, so wrapped up in hate, arrogance and defiance. They're not even smart enough to figure out they can have it all because they are emotionally driven and they Hate ...with every fiber of their being..They hate ..anything different from them..because those different from them humiliated them...so "different" is a threat. I keep saying that all seppies need therapy ...actually ..truth be told ..there needs to be an Intervention of majestic proportion, delivering the message: The "Hate" needs to stop, get the f...over it.. already.
"We officially recognize bilingualism to be our"
DeleteMontréal : Il s'agit de la deuxième plus grande ville du Canada et c'est également la plus importante ville francophone d'Amérique.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montr%C3%A9al
Héhé!
If you are representative of seperatists SR then they are a lot dumber than I even thought possible.
DeleteI agree with you that the seperation fantasy has no basis in logic or reality..it is just pure emotions driving this. Its all about punishing those evil anglos who beat us in a war 300 years ago. And they could care less about the damage to the economy or perhaps they believe the fantasy nonsense from the PQ about how rich Quebec would be. Its really quite pathetic and sad to see how people can be so completely brainwashed to the point that they think up is down and down is up.
You cant have a rational discussion with a group who are driven solely by emotions..it just wont work. The seperatists are terrified of anyone but themselves and will drive this province right into the ground. And even when its driven into the ground they will still find a way to blame someone else.
I bet that if Quebec seperates and the economy goes to hell they would still blame the rest of Canada for it..its always someone elses fault but never their own making.
Then you have idiiots like SR coming on here who cant even put forth a complete sentence that makes sense. I guess as long as he has his welfare cheque he is happy..but he might even lose that in a seperate Quebec. But then who cares if everyone is poor and unemployed..as long as everything is in quebecois..right
Now we have to wonder if the seps that haunt this blog will FINALLY GET IT THROUGH THEIR HEADS that all this charter is, is total manipulation to get their votes even though the PQ is financially killing us and the charter is totally illegal!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cjad.com/cjad-news/2014/01/16/quebecs-bar-association-says-pqs-charter-of-values-is-illegal?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook
"...the charter is totally illegal!"
Deletedude a new law can't be illegal, it's the law!! logics mate.
It violates the quebec and canadian charter of freedoms..hence it is an illegal law. By the way student..a little education..just because a law has been passed does not make it right..there have been countless examples over the years of totally unfair and unjust laws so please dont hide behind the simplistic its the law bs.
DeleteIt was the law to have slaves not that long ago..it was the law that only men could vote. Here is some real words of wisdom from martin luther king.. “An unjust law is no law at all” – Martin Luther King
@complicated
Deletean inconstitutional law is possible. but an illegal law isn't. it's like if you say a cheeseburger without cheese. also, you mix immoral and illegal. there is a distinction. of course when a government wants to change a law the new law goes against the old one. that why cutie's cry up here is absurd.
You are avoiding the real issue..is it a just law? It is clearly not a just law if it violates the canadian chart of rights and freedoms..in fact it also violates the quebec charter of rights and freedoms. You are simply playing word games here to deflect the real point.
DeleteIts an unfair and unjust law so I believe we should have no qualms with defying it. Bill 101 is also an unjust law as it violates the rights of english canadians living in their own country.
Cutie: The damage caused by the charter is already done. Even if Bill 60 were completely dropped at this point, the mere fact that public officials have spewed forth government sanctioned discrimination, exclusion and judgment of citizens based on ethnicity (yes, this goes FAR beyond religious symbols or clothing, it is about the PEOPLE THEMSELVES and who they were BORN as!) is now going linger indefinitely.
ReplyDeleteIt's now in the minds of citizens that SPECIFIC people (i.e. those not white, Catholic and French) are not welcome in this province, and calling forth "real" Quebec citizens to take matters into their own hands to correct the situation. This has already started, we've seen attacks take place on the news.
This is going to drive business and companies out of the province, and sure as hell isn't going to attract new ones. As if the whole language discrimination and stringent language rules weren't cause enough to drive out businesses (plus threat of separation to boot!) the has PQ managed to outdo themselves with the charter of values. Honestly, the PQ has made destroying the economy an art form!
Yes, the damage they have done, and are doing is permanent, and will surely stop a lot of immigration - their own fault of course - but who and what will replace these taxpayers and workers when they leave empty homes and no one wanting to move here? Not a thought given to that by these bums. Just heard on the news that quebec wants Ottawa to do something to protect the value of the homes in Montreal. Always go crying to the feds when they see trouble coming and yet run them down no end all the time - worst bunch of hypocrites that ever walked the face of the earth and care nothing about the economy or our pockets in their quest for power and domination. An "art form" is an apt description Apple. The whole thing makes one want to either laugh or cry - they will hang themselves before this is over and I'm sure the majority francophone population are wising up. A lot of bad publicity on this and the publicity shows them up for what they are.
Deletehttp://www.feelguide.com/2013/08/07/londons-the-economist-on-why-quebecs-language-laws-make-it-the-worlds-shittiest-business-center/
Deletethe shittiest business center...Holy Economist, thank you!
To be accurate, the "world's shittiest business center" headline was added by someone who cut-and-pasted the original Economist article on to a blog. The esteemed Economist magazine wouldn't be so crass. Still, few right-thinking people would disagree that Quebec is a shitty/crappy/lousy/frustrating place to do business.
DeleteOh man...the news today was music to my ears! "What's this? Quebec's very own Bar Association is deeming this bill completely illegal and inapplicable?" Have people been living under a rock for the past several months? How is this even news, as the brief was leaked months...sigh. That said, this begins the change of the tide people. Mark my words. The people in this province will be swept up by popular opinion, and thankfully popular opinion is finally being driven by logic delivered by people who actually know what they are talking about!
ReplyDeleteÀ ceux qui soulignent le manque d'études pour prouver l'existence de problèmes liés au port de signes religieux et au prosélytisme,
DeleteUne musulmane dénonce l'appel à la prière dans une garderie
http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/dossiers/charte-de-la-laicite/201401/16/01-4729487-une-musulmane-denonce-lappel-a-la-priere-dans-une-garderie.php
The PQ act as if they are superior to the law and ignore logic. A sign of their arrogance, which is actually a mask for their insecurity.
Delete@theo
Deletewhat have you got mna's there if not to come up with new law bills and improve existing ones?
also, when did they ignore logic? any example mate? i mean a good example?
of course a minority government is insecure. no surprise here. vote for them next time; you'll have this issue solved.
I'm sorry S.R. did you just post an article from La Presse as "proof" of there being a problem related to religious symbols?. First of all, can you explain how this article proves specifically that religious symbols are a problem. Second of all, I challenge you to find actual proof (meaning statistical data) that pre-dates this charter conversation that proves your point. How is this unbiased or academic in any way at all. This is like Drainville pointing at comments on a facebook page as "proof" that the "people" are for the charter. Man, you and student should both join the PQ ranks, you'll both fit right in!
Deletep.s. before student or S.R. have a field day with this, I'm not in any way suggesting that La Presse is the only media outlet that can't be trusted for proof. Articles from the press like this have been historically proven to not be reliable sources of data. What I'm asking for and what the PQ has failed to present (which will eventually be one of their biggest blunders and proof of their amateur political skills) is data from a controlled study conducted by professionals. Hell, I'd even settle for a record of official complaints from public offices. Most of the major hospitals and many/most of the unions here in Quebec have admitted to having few to none such complaints.
@student
Delete(1) What statistics does the PQ have that show a need for Bill 60? Real statistics, not polling.
(2) What legal arguments does the PQ have that show Bill 60 is legal? Prove that the legal opinion of the Bar is wrong.
(3) How does the PQ plan to monitor compliance to Bill 60 and deal with violators? Create Religion Police?
La loi 101 serait donc une loi juste soutenue par des arguments légaux ?
Delete@rationalist
Delete"What I'm asking for and what the PQ has failed to present (...) is data from a controlled study conducted by professionals."
the bouchard tayor inquiry was a controlled study by professionals.
you seem to be the type that prefers to wait and cure something that could have been prevented without having any antidote ready. i'm not like that.
@theo
1) statistics? you shouldn't need statistics to figure out good from bad mate.
2) that's an absurd question. if bill 60 becomes law it will be legal. definitions mate. i don't think the bar is wrong, i just think laws and existing charters will have to be changed. it happens you know from time to time in a democracy that laws are changed by a government. actually that's why they have been elected in the first place, remember?
3)i don't know, you ask them. i'm not the pq.
Il y a des agents de sécurité dans tous les édifices gouvernementaux qui peuvent très bien faire le travail.
Delete@student
Delete"you seem to be the type that prefers to wait and cure something that could have been prevented without having any antidote ready. i'm not like that."
Oh man, not this logic bomb again! You've already used this completely flawed concept on me on the Editor's last article...and I replied to it. For your convenience, I'll paste my reply from that thread back here:
"...until you can prove that there is something to actually cure, why all the fuss. You know what, I think we should spend millions of dollars creating a vaccine for the Banana Fever. I have no proof that it has caused any health concerns whatsoever or if it even exists...but I've got a feeling in my bones that it's gonna be bad! Does that sound like a reasonable way to spend tax payer dollars to you? Please tell me that you don't believe in the flu vaccine so I can laugh my self into a hysterical irony induced stupor."
So, I'll ask again. Where is the proof. Actual proof. Oh, and for the record, the Bouchard Taylor Inquiry was not a study of a problem, but a proposal for improving the secular status of Quebec. Besides, why would you use them as proof when the authors of the study are completely against the PQ's charter? Condemning it for being way off target. Are you trying to be thick, or is this just your wonderful natural self shining through?
@rationalist
Delete"You know what, I think we should spend millions of dollars creating a vaccine for the Banana Fever."
that's absurd.
" Where is the proof. Actual proof."
are you kidding me? you need proof that religion and public service shouldn't mix? you need to fill a backpack and hit the road mate.
"why would you use them as proof when the authors of the study are completely against the PQ's charter?"
they are not completely against it at all. they think the ban should be applied to police, judges, and other authoritative jobs. it's super easy to use their very own arguments to extend this to teachers and daycare workers, and then why not to all public service. plus this religious symbol thing is a small part of bill 60. neither bouchard or taylor ever said they are against the whole thing as it would mean discrediting their own work.
"Are you trying to be thick, or is this just your wonderful natural self shining through?"
second one.
@student
DeleteUm..."neither bouchard or taylor ever said they are against the whole thing as it would mean discrediting their own work."
Haha...being against the PQ's bastardized version of their plan does NOT discredit their own work and you know that. It must be hard work pretending to be so clueless!
"you need to fill a backpack and hit the road mate."
You're intolerant self centred colours are showing again. A typical solution for someone like yourself..."if you don't like it, get out!" How arrogant and how entitled you are. Like the only things that matter are you're desires and fantasies. Do you see it in yourself? This lack of accepting people for who they are? Or are you too busy admiring your own reflection and this vision of what you wish Quebec to become to even notice?
My experiment with you is over. I have concluded that you are in this merely to win an argument at all costs and by smoke screening arguments and twisting words to suit your delusions at every chance...much like the PQ are doing but with MUCH higher stakes.
If you are indeed a student of Quebec, than you are the future of this province. Words cannot express how much that terrifies me. Take out a pencil and add me to that long list of people who are ignoring you. I'm sure others are laughing at me, as they knew very well how this short lived little fling was going to end.
Au revoir et bonne chance with that whole becoming an intolerant country thing!
Well at least you wised up to it, there really is no point with arguing with someone who has no consistency in logic other than, my end goal is right because it is, with no cogent supporting arguments. The best they can come up with is:
Delete1. There needs to be separation of church and state (there already is, and this bill ain't it)
2. Religious accommodations are a huge problem! (yet no evidence to suggest this exists)
3. Well it could become a problem if we do nothing! (lazy uncompelling slippery slope argument that student always takes issue with on other subjects but is fine with using on this one)
4. The Taylor-Bouchard report! (other than just being that 1 report, the PQ has ignored most of it, and gone further than anything even suggested in it, and specifically for student they recommend not to extend it to healthcare workers and the education sector so no you can't "extend their argument" to that. http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/story.html?id=cede8841-a93e-4f12-a81a-a6d6fce88e16)
5. Gender equality! (gender equality is already enshrined into multiple laws and the charter does nothing more to ensure it)
6. They have similar laws elsewhere! (they also have laws that say homosexuals should be to put to death elsewhere, saying "me too" isn't a compelling argument.)
7. It's just a dress code! (Dress codes still need to respect the law and not discriminate against people)
8. It's just like not being able to wear political symbols (these are not protected under the law and no political ideology requires the wearing of a symbol as in religions, apple meet orange.)
9. The charter will be fine because the PQ can just change the charter of rights and freedoms as it's "outdated". (It's a sad day when a government is arguing that protecting minority rights is no longer in vogue, and that they can pass a discriminatory law because they can also just gut a charter that is supposed to be the unflappable guiding light of what the society thinks is fair and just. In effect removing part of what makes Quebec and Canada one of the rare and great places on earth, individual rights, and to say removing these is just a little revision to a non-fundamental law spits in the face of what the core values of this society should be, equality and individual freedoms for all.)
10. Quebec society's values are at odds with those of some religious groups! (how is banning headwear supposed to solve this, other than by promoting discrimination?)
11.The law is fair because it applies to all religions. (That's like saying the american voting laws were fair when African Americans only got 3/5 of a vote, see it's fair because eveyone gets to vote! Er not really, the cross is allowed but others are outright banned, which is not even handed and is discriminatory.)
I'm not even going to get into the borderline and racist arguments (ie this is our country they should follow are laws; I don't feel comfortable being served by someone wearing a religious symbol {oddly enough coming from the same people denouncing religious minorities not wanting to be treated by a specific gender} etc)
So in sum:
A. There is no demonstrable need for such a law, either now or in the future.
B. The current law does nothing to address the issues it purports to.
C. It will affect religious minorities unproportionately, which amounts to discrimination.
It is a discriminatory bill that does not solve a problem, that does not exist.
You might not like seeing religious symbols or you might not believe in religions but that is not a good reason to attack religious freedoms, and this seems to be the reason for some supports for the charter, and everything else they parrot in support are just excuses to pass it, faulty excuses at that.
By AnecTOTE
Delete"Well at least you wised up to it, there really is no point with arguing with someone who has no consistency in logic other than, my end goal is right because it is, with no cogent supporting arguments. The best they can come up with is: "
Student a.k.a pinstripes ....has been mandated with the task of distracting and actually hijacking the conversation any way she can with bull crap...usually in the form of grabbing silly misinformation out of her ass and posting it on this blog. She doesn't post for the Followers of the blog, she posts for the international audience who visits from time to time and who may not entirely be aware of how things really are in this province, such as those who may have an interest in investing in this province and decide to do some real homework besides reading the usual politically accepted reporting that mainstream media provides and wish to put their ear to the ground in order to better gauge what is really going on in this primitive society.
Please do not waste your time trying to convince her of anything, it is a little machine manufactured to spew out propaganda in the vain attempt to redeem the "quebec" brand. She's not suppose to debate with anyone or make the mistake of getting on the defense ...she's probably being admonished for doing both since it is counterproductive to the prescribed seppie Agenda. Unfortunately for her, the jig is up. Now...if IF actually sends over some kind of intelligent life form instead of a brain-washed inconsequential ameba, who can pull off the plan without inciting suspicion, that would be different. I know...they don't have the brainpower for it. This one is past its expiration date and stinks worst than a skunk.
Un ancien chef du Bloc appuie la charte des valeurs.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/dossiers/charte-de-la-laicite/201401/16/01-4729459-un-ancien-chef-du-bloc-appuie-la-charte-pequiste.php
Bienvenue à bord,Michel
Québec charter of values:
ReplyDeleteMontreal man arrested after alleged internet threat
Out on $2,000 bail, forced to cut internet and faces possible jail time.
http://globalnews.ca/news/1087678/montreal-man-arrested-after-alleged-internet-threat/
Yeah well that's what happens when you say the things he said. No sympathy whatsoever
DeleteThe exact quote from Dan was not a threat; he was merely pointing out the there will be trouble if the charter goes through and complained about the fact that our tax money is supporting this charter. Anyone with any real knowledge of the English language would read this and realize that he personally did not say he would do anything. Just another way to harass the English community while the IF and the SJBS get away with pushing their hateful agenda on everyone and everybody in quebec.
Delete"He must also suspend his online subscription and cannot access the Internet via any other computers."
ReplyDeleteThat is more scary than the charter itself! I mean, banned from accessing the Internet or even owning a computer or similar device?! Why not ban him from accessing electricity too! I couldn't deal with that, it's like forcing you to live back in 1974. May as well stay in jail!
This must mean he cannot have internet service in his name. His wife can have internet service in her name and he can use her connection. Will the SQ monitor his wife's surfing habits now?
DeleteEditor, I'm on your side but which battle are you (non-PQ-voters) will win since the liberals are as untrustable as the others? Time to leave the boat and let it sink!
ReplyDeleteWow, I am truly amazed by the depth of legal knowledge that student has. Its claim that a piece of legislation can be unconstitutional but can not be illegal really astounds me. I always thought that a constitution was the basis of all laws and the legal system and therefore anything against it was, by definition, illegal.
ReplyDeletewell troy you'll go to sleep a tad more astute tonight. an illegal law is an oxymoron.
DeleteI concede that the student obviously has the wealth of knowledge in legal matters. Its knowledge is even vaster than that of the American Jurisprudence, the legal encyclopedia that is used in virtually all law libraries:
DeleteThe general rule is that an unconstitutional statute, though having the form and the name of law, is in reality no law, but is wholly void and ineffective for any purpose since unconstitutionality dates from the time of its enactment and not merely from the date of the decision so branding it; an unconstitutional law, in legal contemplation, is as inoperative as if it had never been passed ... An unconstitutional law is void. (16 Am. Jur. 2d, Sec. 178)
I also come to believe that just by being a separatist someone will be de facto an expert in legal matters, better than anybody else. Case in point, Quebec Bar Association released a statement that Charter affirming the values of State secularism and religious neutrality and the equality between women and men, and providing a framework for accommodation requests will not hold up to legal challenges and Minister Bernard Drainville stated that he was confident with the constitutionality of the Charter affirming the values of State secularism and religious neutrality and the equality between women and men, and providing a framework for accommodation requests.
ReplyDeleteAs a separatist, surely Bernard Drainville know better even though he does not have any legal training. What is the Bar Association compared to him? It is only the body that regulates the legal profession in the province. Moreover, when he is asked to provide the opinion of the government's legal council on this matter, he does not respond, indicating that either their opinion does not matter or there is no such opinion.
the government probably considers very seriously the opinion of the lawyers lobby. it's precious info about which laws they need to change and how they need to change them in order for the charter to fit in seemlessly.
Deleteyou concluding that drainville thinks he knows better because he didn't can his project the same day the lawyers told him there are issues with the canadian constitution is a stretch. you like to stretch things don't you troy?
@student
DeleteMan, you really kill me with this make believe version of reality you live in. You and I both know, that Troy has come to this conclusion due to the fact that Drainville has gone on record repeatedly for saying that he has no intentions at all in changing his bill. In fact, when given the chance last year to massage the bill in order to get CAQ support, he made the bill even more extreme. This does not seem like a man/government that wants to negotiate with the majority of Quebec (keep in mind that the liberals and CAQ combined represent the majority of Quebec...the PQ is a just a small minority). So, who's stretching what? Is this where you tell me that this is all just strategic political manoeuvring by the clever PQ in order to server this great province for the greater good. Because I like asking you questions so much student...here's another: when you look at Bernard Drainville, what do you see? Do you see an honourable and intelligent man? Or something else?
@rationalist
Delete"Drainville has gone on record repeatedly for saying that he has no intentions at all in changing his bill."
i think it would be bad for pq to already come forward saying it will dilute the bill. it doesn't make sense to do so now. it would be very bad strategy as he would be forced to make compromises when it's quite probable that he doesn't need to do any in the end if public opinon consolidates his way. don't you get that?
"PQ in order to server this great province for the greater good."
yes i think government secularity is for the greater good.
"when you look at Bernard Drainville, what do you see? Do you see an honourable and intelligent man? Or something else?"
he's not my favourite, but he's all right. he's handling this thing very well. there have been numerous occasions when he could have lost his temper but he never did. kuddos.
Rationalist,
DeleteYou are trying to argue with the one that thinks that the Bar of Quebec is merely a "lawyers lobby" [sic]? Good night and good luck.
http://groupthink.jezebel.com/this-quebec-charter-of-values-article-1502806887
ReplyDeleteI just wanted to point something out.
ReplyDeleteI've noticed that on numerous occasions in this thread alone, our dear "Student" has indicated that the PQ should change laws
in order to push their bill through.
Hmmmm.....changing laws huh?
Can anyone name another society that did such a thing?
Hint: Student will accuse you of being a Godwin if you get it right.
Référendum de 1995: le camp du Non financé illégalement
ReplyDeleteL’organisateur libéral Gilles Cloutier a admis mardi, devant la commission Charbonneau, avoir financé illégalement des activités de la campagne du Non dans les régions des Laurentides et de Lanaudière, lors du référendum de 1995.
http://m.ledevoir.com/politique/quebec/377055/referendum-de-1995-le-camp-du-non-finance-illegalement
Oups!
Maritime Union
DeleteMethinks S.R has seen more dickends than weekends.
B.R
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile at the canadian hillbillies
http://fr.canoe.ca/infos/societe/archives/2014/01/20140115-193823.html
Health organizations want exemption from the charter:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cjad.com/cjad-news/2014/01/18/more-criticism-for-values-charter
Just how many organizations, lawyers, etc. will it take for these crazy people to realize the harm they are doing?