Monday, December 2, 2013

The Trouble with Sovereignty, Part 2.. Dutch Desease and Other Nonsense

Oil drives Canadian dollar's value, but is  high or low value better?
If there's anything that sticks in the craw of sovereigntists, it is Quebec's dependence on equalization payments and it's reliance on Alberta oil to help fill the permanent financial gap in the Quebec budget.

Being forced to take Alberta charity is not only galling, but outright humiliating and so Quebec nationalists use the rationalization of the proverbial layabout, who complains that his rich brother-in-law, who helps support him, is a dishonest businessman anyways, making money on the backs of others.
How convenient....
Dutch disease is the apparent relationship between the increase in exploitation of natural resources and a decline in the manufacturing sector (or agriculture). The mechanism is that an increase in revenues from natural resources will make a given nation's currency stronger compared to that of other nations, resulting in the nation's other exports becoming more expensive for other countries to buy, making the manufacturing sector less competitive. Link
And so Alberta's Oil Sands are roundly blamed for contributing to Quebec's economic woes, whereby manufacturing jobs in Quebec are sacrificed because of the higher value of our dollar, which has the effect of pricing ourselves out of the international market, because of high labour costs.
It's a popular and neat idea, one that fulfills an important need, that is to shift blame, but it is a theory thoroughly debunked like that which proposed that immunization leads to autism in children, advanced by some Hollywood know-betters.
These theories live on because people want them to be true.

I'm not going to waste time dissecting 'Dutch Disease'  because those who believe in it are inconvinceable, like 'Truthers' or conspiracy theorists who believe that the 1969 Moon landing was a hoax.

Sadly, the "Dutch Desease" theory was given new life by Thomas Mulcair who should know better, but who cynically chose an opportunity to score points with his constituency in Quebec, the hard and soft nationalists.

Now even if the theory was valid (which it is not) it described a situation in the 1960's in the Netherlands where the discovery of a lucrative gas field supposedly pushed up the value of the guilder, to the point where manufacturers were no longer competitive.
In the sixties, most of the manufacturing jobs were located in Western countries, in Europe and North America, where a higher than average currency could affect competitiveness.

But today, the jobs lost in Quebec are almost all re-routed to Asia, where salaries are so much lower, than even if we drop the value of our currency, it wouldn't make a difference.

As for those, who would argue that we would be more competitive in North America, I would ask in what domain?
Everywhere in North America, manufacturing jobs have vanished and a lower dollar wouldn't make much of a difference. Take for example Quebec's dairy industry, which could never compete with American prices because of price supports. Even if some new industries would sprout based on a cheaper dollar, the overall effect on the entire population would be devastating because everything we import would cost more, including all our fuel, agricultural products and manufactured goods.

The theory that we can somehow become richer by becoming poorer, can only be explained by wrapping the argument in nonsensical gobbledygook.

The removal the so-called effect of Dutch disease (again, it doesn't exist) would benefit a handful, but drop the standard of living of the entire Quebec population.
Hilariously, this is exactly what some nationalists argue for, an independent Quebec with its own currency that would drop to a level that would provide a competitive advantage over Canada.
It's an easily sellable plan if one omits to describe the negative effects.

I wonder what the effect of telling Quebec voters, before a referendum, that in an independent Quebec, everybody would have to take a 15% salary decrease, the day after the launching of a Quebec dollar!

And so we come to the issue of currency, and the question as to whether an independent Quebec will stay with the Canadian dollar or go forward with a new currency.
According to experts, staying with the Canadian dollar makes sense, Scotland independentists have already proclaimed that in the event of separation, Scotland would maintain the British pound as the national currency.

While there are solid economic reasons to keep the Canadian dollar, I'm not sure that Quebec could muster the political will to keep the Queen on its currency, especially when newer editions of the paper money plastic money and coins would become unilingually English, an unacceptable rebuke.

Not only would the maintenance of the Canadian dollar be an affront, Quebec would be taking a huge step backwards, no longer enjoying any influence on national monetary policy.

More likely, is the scenario where the Dutch Disease proponents win out and Quebec would go ahead with its own money, accepting that its value will deteriorate, hopefully making the province slightly more competitive, but assuredly making the entire population poorer.

The cherry on the sundae of a currency exchange is the 14 billion windfall that the Quebec government would receive immediately as the Canadian dollar is eliminated and the Quebec dollar created.
The difference is in the cash money known in the trade as the 'M0" or the liquid cash in your pockets and bank accounts which amounts to about 14 billion dollars in Quebec.
In one fell swoop, Quebec would take that money and replace it with its own, in other words, giving out paper and receiving 14 billion in Canadian dollars back, a tidy sum that could finance the immediate shock of independence.

But all these gains would be wiped out in the increased cost of supporting the debt
Remember, that if Quebec reduces the value of its currency, the cost of supporting the collective debt, priced internationally, will go up.
Simply put, if Quebecers start being paid or earning in a currency that is less valuable than the Canadian dollar, they will have to spend more Quebec dollars to pay the mortgage on the family home, priced in Canadian dollars or its higher equivalent in local currency.

All of these considerations are nowhere to be found in a nonexistent sovereigntist manifesto.
It is probably true that these issues are above the comprehension of the average citizen, but just the same, these issues exist.
And is it really realistic to vote on sovereignty before discussing these issues publicly?
According to the PQ, it is okay to keep people in the dark when the answers to these difficult questions are not easily explained with a positive result.

To those who disagree with everything I say here, I put this question to you..... Aren't we entitled to hear the answer from horse's mouth, that is, the position of the PQ in relation to currency in a new state, something which we can all agree, is of monumental consideration?
Shouldn't the PQ tell us before a referendum whether they will proceed to a Quebec currency or not and what the effects of either scenario is.
How on Earth should we pronounce on such a life-changing decision in the blind, how many Quebecers would buy a home without being informed of the cost or without taking a walk-through.
The process is called 'kicking the tires,' that is, examining the pros and cons beforehand, be it a car, home or investment.
I don't think many of us would purchase a vacation without knowing the cost, or for that matter, the attributes or shortcomings of the resort
Shouldn't we be doing the same with the issue of sovereignty, a bit of due diligence, so to say?

If everything is as rosy as the separatists would have us believe, then why don't they just  explain how things will unfold.
That is the question I put to readers on the sovereigntist side.
Believe me, believe me not, but what are your sovereigntist friends saying about all this and more importantly, what are they not saying.

Up to now all we've heard is stony silence. We've already voted twice on an independence referendum, without ever being told what the financial plans for a future Quebec nation would be.

It is shameful and embarrassing, not that the PQ has hidden the fact that it has no plan, but rather that half of Quebecers voted in favour of this pig in a poke.


  1. I always pissed myself laughing whenever I heard a separatist tell me that keeping the Canadian as their "national currency" was a good move. How can these rednecks possibly tell you such a thing with a straight face?

    Anyhoo, since we're now on a new post, I thought I'd address the matter of...addressing...trolls.

    Another reason I never respond to these socially despondent tools is because they're manifestly impulsive.

    Like chronic masturbators hopelessly addicted to porn, they're not in it for the sake of love or procreation.

    The Editor has once again written a very note-worthy piece, but of course, the supposed "proponents of Quebec justice" will not comment on any of his propositions, they will only try to wind up the regular commentors here.

    Everyone, we have an awesome piece to work off of here in the latest article - ignore the goddamn trolls.

    They have nothing.

    If, ( and we all know this won't happen) they submitted a logical, well-thought out rebuttals to any of the arguments in the Editor's piece, then and only then should we answer.

    Other than that, why would you respond to some low-bred honky dickhead in Sherbrooke's comments that all Anglos are donut addicts?

    Don't get it.

    1. i'm sure that's exactly the kind of comment the editor dreams of when he hopes for a nice debate to take off following his effort: a long rant about the insects in your head. haha. you're so disrespectful.

    2. A.C., good first post. Actually, a separated Quebec should keep the currency, but I fully agree that from a political standpoint, it would make them look like fools for the simple reason a sovereign nation should produce its own currency; besides, Quebec would in short order have to produce its own currency. Remember the Czech Republic and Slovakia model from about 20 years ago. Their separation was very amicable. Ours will not be that way, far from it. Slovakia had to adopt its own currency just 39 days after their mutual separation.

      What's really pathetic about this argument is Quebec has so many natural resources just waiting to be harvested. The Editor forgot to mention how many lucrative federal government jobs would be lost in Quebec. I'll grant you some new government jobs would be created where Quebec did not have jurisdiction in federal areas, but a lot of those jobs are duplicated, especially in the tax department and human resources. Kiss those duplicated jobs off as redundant.

      That "$14 billion windfall" would be short-lived. About $10 billion would be lost as Quebec would have to kiss those succulent equalization payments goodbye (a boon for the Real Canada), and that's just in the first year alone. Imagine that humongous perennial gimme Quebec has been enjoying courtesy yours truly and the other 25 million souls outside Quebec. Goodbye EI, goodbye OAS, goodbye federal government jobs, and of course, goodbye equalization. THAT'S a big OUCHIE boo-boo!

      Shame on Thomas Mulcair! Why not encourage Quebec to create jobs by harvesting that wealth of natural resources still in the ground? Wouldn't it help recover a chunk of those 50,000 jobs lost in Quebec since the PQ was voted in?

      For my detractors, I'd clam up forever and stop writing here if and only if equalization and other special federal considerations to Quebec are eliminated. Quebec would still be welcome to obtain federal services based on Quebec's contributions to the federal coffers, no more, no less. They are fully entitled to the services they pay for.

      Upon meeting those conditions, I couldn't care less about Quebec. They'd be costing me nothing, and I wouldn't care about the fact they have unconstitutionally outlawed one of two of Canada's official languages, and the feds have let them get away with it. They want to pass racist legislation, then it's up to those citizens affected by these laws to fight back. I wouldn't be affected, so ask me if I care.

      No doubt Quebec's cost of living would go way up due to a weaker currency and a sharp drop in revenues (from the feds), and higher costs because all their debt is currently in Canada and US dollars. Gee...think a separated Quebec would dollarize with the Americans, a unilingually English currency? Think they'd get special status about being a distinct society from the Americans? LOL,L,L,L,L! Pigs will fly before that happens! Louisiana will have "special status" before Quebec would.

      Too funny...just hilarious!

    3. Keeping Canadian dollar as currency is stupid. They hate the Queen with passion but they want her face on bills and coins.
      Another issue: Why do they believe that old Canadian agreement with other countries will apply to newborn Quebec? Most probable not.
      For a company in ROC the french language requirement will be history. I wanna see them speaking english on airplanes, trains, at the banks, cell phone companies and the list is still open.
      Why seppeis think that new Quebec will be able to export goods in Canada free of fees? Why do they think that consumers from ROC will buy product from Quebec?
      Majorities of this seppies are naive........Almost pathetic..

    4. They dream ah but they dream. Of course the agreements with other countries will be null and void. Even the deals they already have with other countries are under the auspices of Canada; terms and conditions being made with Canadian legalities involved. As to them taking land from Labrador and/or native territory, I"m willing to bet it will be over the dead bodies of both. Labrador is quite happy being part of Newfoundland, especially with their new found resources, and the natives have made it perfectly clear they will not be dragged into a new quebec. Once partition starts, areas that vote to leave the new quebec will have a perfect opportunity to vote where they want to belong. I hope this starts sooner than later so we can shed ourselves of these crazy people.

    5. Where do any of you see Quebec as being part of Labrador? The province is now referred to as Newfoundland and Labrador, and they are taxed under that jurisdiction.

      Notwithstanding how I answered MTL1973's questions below, Quebec will not have as easy a time separating as they think. Indubitably the First Nations people will not recognize an independent Quebec government, so Quebec could expect altercations on that front. They'll have to allow land,air and sea easements to connect the Atlantic Provinces to Ontario and RoC. If they try to form a blocade on the St. Lawrence especially, a state of war with the U.S. becomes a possibility.

      I'm sure Montreal will suddenly push much, much harder and seriously to become an independent city-state, and maybe the Veaudreuil-Soulange peninsula adjacent to Ontario would want to somehow annex to that. I also imagine people in the Outouais Region would not be interested in losing their lucrative federal government jobs, and if they wanted to keep those jobs, I would expect and demand they move to Ontario or elsewhere in Canada. I neither need nor want these Quebec foreigners taking jobs that belong to real Canadians and paying their taxes to a foreign state. One way or another, there would inevitably be political unrest in Quebec, and I don't think the Americans are interested in disruptions on their Northern Border. Do you think the Americans would just sit still while all this is happening?

      The ultimate irony would be Quebec annexes with the U.S. I can just see the Americans producing government documentation in French, LOL! They're lucky the USBPA even produces signs at the customs offices, because I doubt anyone there speaks French. The Americans won't print their currency in Spanish, so they certainly won't print it with French! So much for their "endangered" language and culture that to date has never been one iota in such danger. «Québécois de vieulle souche» an endangered species? LOL,L,L,L,L!!!

    6. The reference to Labrador being part of a new quebec was brought up by a poster later on and I was just commenting on the fact that they don't have a snow balls chance in hell of ever claiming Labrador as part of "their" land.

    7. I think the Labrador statement is ludicrous..there is no way Quebec will add to their current borders..they are much more likely to lose their current size. The natives are not going to stay and much of northern Quebec will stay in Canada. I suspect there will be a very strong case made by Canada that Montreal and extreme southern Quebec should stay in Canada. But that will be met with stiff resistance from the end I think this will cause civil unrest and the military will have to be called in to calm things down. There will be years and years of organizations being involved. It willbe quite unpleasant for all in will wreck the will pit neighbors against against family..and in the end like many conflicts I doubt there will be a satisfactory solution to either side. Hence again lets all think twice if we really want to go down this route. If the PQ wins a majority and starts enacting all sorts of racist legislation then I think we will quickly move towards this. My focus now is stopping the PQ winning the next election at all costs..hence I do not want Harper to provoke Quebecers to score political points.

      I agree that the USA is not going to take kindly to Quebec independance and there is no way Quebecers would ever consider joining the USA..its another english country and even bigger than Canada. They would have even less support for the french language. I suspect they may try and negotiate some agreements with France.

      I think Canada would be very reluctant to let Quebec use the Canadian dollar. Canada would become an english only country and there would be even more animosity towards Quebec than there is now. Economically this would be a disaster for Quebec..a lot of trade would be reduced with the rest of Canada..they would lose potentially 15-20 percenrt of their population often those with money and skills. With their already massive debt..I just dont see how they make it. Its ironic that Quebecers score high in math yet cant see the simple math regarding the debt situation and the disaster seperation would cause.

    8. +10 complicated - that's exactly how I see it all unfolding also. The only thing I would add is that, as the ROC would become officially English, some ex-pat francophones may return to take over the empty houses and businesses that will be vacated by anglophones and allophones. The whole business will be a disaster for any new country called quebec that will find itself frozen out by the anglophones and allophones that will completely surround their new country. This will last for a hell of a long time and feelings of sympathy for quebec will not exist for at least 100 years. Resentment and "pay back" for all the turmoil will be utmost in people's minds for a long, long time especially if it creates a civil war situation in areas that don't want to remain part of a separate quebec which will, most likely, include the whole of Montreal where many anglophones and allophones reside and they see how they will be treated by any separatist government. If the separatists think they have a hard time making it now, just wait until they have nothing to eat on their tables and the food banks can't afford to help them out any longer.

  2. Chronic masturbators and donut addicts ?

    Vous avez une vie palpitante Coward.

  3. @Editor, the two troll comments prove my point exactly.

    Leave the comments up or zap them?

    On one hand these comments are a testament to their stupidity and the pointlessness of their movement, yet these comments are also not worth the work you put into your latest article.

    Why leave this kind of loose-nut thinking up when we all know comments like these offer nothing to the conversation you started?

    1. L'avenir de la Nation Québécoise ne se réglera pas sur ce blogue,coward.

  4. Editor,
    You have written a simple article that has fascinated me for many years. I have always wondered where this play book on sovereignty was kept, assuming it existed. I have come to realize over the years that there is none and no one really knows exactly what they are voting for when they choose "Oui/Yes". Ask a 100 separatists the following questions and you will receive a multitude of different combinations and contradictions:

    Which currency will we use?
    Which army will protect us?
    Will we put up a border around our new country?
    Will we expand our territorial waters?
    Will we be part of NAFTA?

    When you start asking these questions, some simply say, "The new government will figure it out" while others ending up saying they know it's not realistic.

    So knowing that the whole project is farfetched and we are too poor to go ahead, why do people still want to vote yes? I think the answer is simply to say "F*uck you Canadians" and nothing more. Separatists are a disgruntled, frustrated, and sadistic bunch who would (and have) deliberately drive their car into a wall (not literally - figure of speech) if they knew it could hurt their English-Canadian passenger.

    Bill 101 anyone?

    1. @MTL1973

      Well, because of their neanderthal-like reasoning, their ticket is almost up.

      The Bloc Quebecois is dead and will not regain its former glory.

      Even after the Liberals lost out, the best the PQ could do was com up with 31% of the vote...and now, just a little over a year since they've been elected, their approval ratings are already way below what Jean Charest's were years into his term.

      Once the PQ flames out a la BQ in the next election, they know the dream will die once and for all.

      Must be tough.

    2. "Which currency will we use?"

      canadian dollars first, than quebec dollar, or franc.

      "Which army will protect us?"

      protect against who? anyways it will be the quebec army, roughly 20% of canadian soldiers are from quebec. so there's your army.

      "Will we put up a border around our new country?"

      there already is one, mate.

      "Will we expand our territorial waters?"

      International law deals with that. quebec will most probably abide by it.

      "Will we be part of NAFTA?"

      of course.

      i'm glad i have answered this for you mate. what was it 20 years that it bothered you?!? you should have asked before.

    3. "...or franc."

      I keep telling readers here the separatist movement is on its deathbed.

      Here's your proof.

      One of the blog's most prolific trolls believes an independent Quebec would adopt a currency that's been out of existence for over ten years.

      Good luck.

    4. @anonymous coward

      "Once the PQ flames out a la BQ in the next election, they know the dream will die once and for all."

      here's an advice for you to construct better comments in the future: for an assessment of quebec's sovereignty support you should look at quebec sovereignty support poll numbers instead of the current government's rate of approval.

    5. @anonymous coward

      "...Quebec would adopt a currency that's been out of existence for over ten years."

      it's just a name, mate. what would you call the new quebec money? it could also be the "piastre", since french canadians already use it in familiar speech.

    6. @Editor, please do not delete the two comments above from Student.

      The inherent stupidity in both MUST be preserved.

      From the "here's an advice for you to construct better comments in the future:" comment at 10:00 (it's supposed to be 'some' advice, not 'an' advice) trying to downplay how utterly stupid they look for the "franc" fiasco, no one should be deprived of this.

      Remember folks, instead of lamenting Quebec's low birth rate, we maybe should be rejoicing in it.

    7. While we are getting all the answers from the sovereignty wiz kid, here are some more questions:

      Canada has a national debt of $620B. Quebec represents about 23% of Canada's population. Would Quebec be responsible for reimbursing $142.6B upon leaving Canada?

      If Quebec is having trouble balancing its books right now even though it receives $8-9B in equalization payments, how could it balance them without the subsidy from Canada? Or would the benefits from separation be so great that we would generate more than $9B in additional tax revenues and savings?

      If yes, where would Quebec come up with the money? Could it borrow this amount on top of its current liabilities?
      If not, would this be seen as an act of war?

      If Quebec becomes its own country, could it block all maritime traffic in the St-Lawrence Seaway once inside Quebec waters?

      Could residents of Quebec seek both Canadian citizenship and Quebec at the same time?

      Should I expect to still have access to $7/day daycare after separation?

      Answers to these questions will help me make up my mind on whether I vote for Quebec Solidaire or Option National the next time around.

    8. My text is out of order above. Please read the following question instead:

      Canada has a national debt of $620B. Quebec represents about 23% of Canada's population. Would Quebec be responsible for reimbursing $142.6B upon leaving Canada?

      If yes, where would Quebec come up with the money? Could it borrow this amount on top of its current liabilities?
      If not, would this be seen as an act of war?

    9. 1973, allow me:


      Which currency will we use? The Canadian dollar for about a month, then Quebec creates a new one.
      Which army will protect us? Quebec sovereignists currently in the Armed Forces who wish to convert.
      If that doesn't suffice, Quebec will have to recruit its own military.
      Will we put up a border around our new country? Depending how badly they want to keep the rest of us out. If they
      choose to do so, the expenses are Quebec's alone.
      Will we expand our territorial waters? First, ask the Americans as they have territorial rights to the Seaway.
      Will we be part of NAFTA? I'd be fine with that, but if, AND ONLY IF Quebec assumes its portion of
      the federal debt and either buys federal land and property at fair market
      value according to Canadian appraisals, or allows Canada to retain such
      land and property unharmed and unobstructed. Similar consideration
      would go to Quebec properties located elsewhere in Canada, if any.

      In addition, Quebec would have to allow a reasonable land and air easement for the unobstructed flow of goods and services between the Atlantic Provinces and the rest of Canada.

      Should Quebec do anything to damage or destroy or in other ways intentionally devalue Canadian property in Quebec, or block the easements between the Atlantic Provinces and the rest of Canada, Canada would not approve of Quebec joining NAFTA (and unanimous approval from all NAFTA countries is required). Should subsequent shenanigans manifest, a state of war between Quebec and Canada would likely exist. Not my desire, for I am not a warmonger, but hey, divorce is never easy.

      Oh, and as for Quebec paying for its share of the national debt, Quebec would have to absorb the debt and pay the interest. Since Quebec would have its own currency, it could either buy another currency to fund the debt, or do what Germany did in the 1920s to pay for the reparations set out in the Treaty of Versailles in 1919: Print more of their own currency!

      LOL,L,L,L.L! It would take a shopping cart or two full of Quebec francs or zloties or whatever they choose to call their currency to buy a plate of poutine! LOL,L,L,L,L!

    10. Sorry, 1973, I almost forgot:

      Regarding the Canadian Armed Forces personnel who choose to join the new Quebec military, their pensions and any continuous other benefits would be revoked immediately for treason. If caught, they may face treason charges for they give their allegiance to Queen and Country (Canada, that is) when they sign up.

      Oh, and finally, to our Polish readers and contributors: It is not my intention to demean the Polish currency, the zloty. It was listed as a for-instance, and the name sounds a bit cute in English.

    11. MTL1973,

      Based on my years of browsing separatist sites and reading opinions of separatist leaders, what I can conclude are these:

      Which currency will we use?
      Most said CAD, several said USD. I never read someone advocating Quebec Currency, whatever the name would be.

      Which army will protect us?
      Quebec would not have standing military, just like Iceland or Costa Rica. Instead it will have enhanced civilian ploce forces.

      Will we put up a border around our new country?
      While all said yes, some I read suggested that the borders be open as in the Schengen Zone.

      Will we expand our territorial waters?
      Territorial waters would be negotiated as two sovereign countries would, considering continental shelf as whatnot. However, it is worth noted that more than one opinions thought that Labrador is an integral part of Quebec and will come with independent Quebec.

      Will we be part of NAFTA?
      This is for certain. In fact, membership of NAFTA is the prerequisite of independent Quebec and one non-negotiable item in the negotiation.

    12. Mr.Sauga..

      This is all speculation..who knows what would would be very messy and it would not be resolved quickly. Again Mr.Sauga I resent your previous statements implying that all anglophones living in Quebec should have left. So you are stating that you believe only francophones should live in Quebec. So you are saying that major companies like Air Canada, CN, Bombardier, Bell, pharmaceutical companies and countless federal insttitutions and english universities like McGill, Concordia should solely have francophone employees?? These are all companies or government instituations that derive most of their income from Canada and in some cases its Canadian taxpayers funding the majority of their costs. You think we should all pack up and leave and hope for as good a job elsewhere and leave all these thousands of often very good jobs to only francophones???

      And once again I am not a born and bred Quebecer..I am from western Canada. I have lived here for not much more than a decade..I like many others came here as a result of work opportunities. There are fields in this country that are quite narrow and Montreal happens to be a centre for some of them..notably aviation and pharmaceutical. McGill is one of the biggest universities around and its english. So anyone who happens to have chosen this as a career is somehow supposed to give up potentially their largest work market in the country??

      Once again its very very easy for you to say that. You had your cheap high quality education and then fled in your early twenties just down the highway. Many of us are much older than you were and have a family..w cant just leave as easily as a carefree young single man can..there are not many good jobs in certain fields across this country. We dont uproot our children from their home easily.

      You obviously are still bitter and twisted about what happened to you 40 years ago but maybe its high time you get over it. You did made a good life elsewhere and I suspect your family did as well. Why the great pleasure of seeing us all go down in flames?? Many of us cant leave easily like you..good jobs are much harder to come by than int he glory days of the 70s and 80s. And do you really think all these jobs in Montreal deserve to be only in the hands of francophones when much of their revenues comes from the rest of Canada?? Do us all a favour and grow some compassion for your fellow canadians who are not as fortunate as you?

    13. complicated:

      HEY! WHOA! I did not imply (to cut and paste your words), "...implying that all anglophones living in Quebec should have left. That's just ONE alternative. I'm disgusted that, as an adolescent when this all started (a preteen really if you take into account J-J Bertrand's Bill 63), the rebellion against all this was inert and I think that's the major reason over 300,000 of the minority population left.

      To cut and paste and respond to your comment "major companies like Air Canada, CN, Bombardier, Bell, pharmaceutical companies and countless federal insttitutions and english universities like McGill, Concordia should solely have francophone employees?? These are all companies or government instituations that derive most of their income from Canada and in some cases its Canadian taxpayers funding the majority of their costs."

      So what? They can do one of two things:

      (1) Stay in Quebec, be good Quebec corporate citizens and Francize 100% the way the OQLF would demand they do, not to mention kiss their federal subsidies goodbye;
      (2) Move their central mind and management (i.e. head offices) out of Quebec, and probably their manufacturing plants as well. I would fully expect them to or completely lose their federal government goodies.

      You wrote "Many of us are much older than you were and have a family..w[e] cant just leave as easily as a carefree young single man can.."

      Right U R complicated, but as I've written before and am writing here again, YOU chose your career field of your own free will, I'm sure, YOU chose to relocate to Quebec and so YOU get what comes with the territory - literally!

      Let me elaborate. My dentist here in Toronto is originally from Fredericton, NB. He graduated from dental school I believe from Dalhousie U circa 1976. Because he had and still has family in Montreal, he was just about to set up his practice in Montreal, but that was when the PQ just got elected and all the language b.s went way off the rails, so that plan was scrapped. He instead relocated to, and opened his practice in Toronto. Smart move! Excellent choice. He hasn't looked back since; in fact, his son a few years ago graduated from dental school at NYU no less, and opened his practice in Newmarket, a satellite suburb of Toronto much like Blainville is to Montreal. Why didn't he open his practice in New York? Or Florida? Or Timbuktu? Or Chicoutimi, QC (LOL,L,L,L,L)? Answer: He made Newmarket his choice, just like you made yours to relocate in Montreal.

      Oh, and yes, complicated, I did bide my time and complete my dirt cheap education at Concordia U and Vanier CEGEP. I was born in Quebec. My parents and grandparents served their Quebec-based communities and paid the heaviest taxes on the continent, so why shouldn't I have take full advantage of the resources available to me? I did, and ran out of Quebec like a raging bull the very day after my convocation at Concordia. I don't regret having done so one bit, and given the opportunity to do it all over again, I would have done it EXACTLY the same way!

    14. complicated, I'm still bitter becase I left Quebec anticipating I left it all behind and not having to or wanting to pay for it anymore. I'm a taxpayer now and part of my taxes paid are going to support a jurisdiction full of defiant ingrates who thumb their noses at us and our values...practically all of them (and you know who "them" means) yet crying gimme gimme gimme.

      As I wrote in the previous commentary one day earlier, I'll be silent if Quebec no longer costs me one red cent. I'm out of there, if Quebec is supporting itself, I will no longer have any reason to bicker. I'm in a better place, and I'll know the taxes taken from my hard-earned money are going to a better country, save the journalist-turned-senators who once called their current peers fat cats and are now the fattest fat cats of all.

    15. Mr.Sauga -

      Your example is a pretty poor one. A dentist can set up shop anywhere in this country. Some jobs though are much narrower in possibilties..there are not aeronautical engineering jobs everywhere in Canada..there are not pharmaceutical type jobs anywhere in Canada..there is not a space centre anywhere in Canada..there is not a McGill university anywhere in Canada...and on and on. You actually think people when they decide what career to go into should check where the opportunities are..then see that "oh right now they are in Quebec" hence I will not go into that field. Are you for real? By the way, when I chose my field I was 18 years old and had lived my whole life in western Canada..I was not an expert on Quebec and do you really expect an 18 year old to be able to anticipate first of all who he will be working for in the future and where he will end up living???

      And again you think that all anglophones..even those with good jobs should flee Montreal?? Even in english institutions like McGill and companies that need anglophones also..and companies/institutions that are paid for mostly by Canadians and Canadian tax dollars?? If these companies choose to leave then the employye has the option of going with them but if they continue to be here..then what..only francophones work in these jobs..even if they are very good well paying jobs..even if your taxes are supporting many of these salaries??? is very easy for you to come on here and tell us how smart you were in the past. You grew up here and you had the chance to be able to leave when you were single and free. You didnt even move that far are a 5 hour drive away. Many people nowadays move across the country for me..we are not as fortunate as you were. We are not all in jobs like dentisty, teaching, accountng, sales, etc in which you can easily find a similar job elsewhere.

      Stop blaming us for making very sane decisions in many cases. We have the right to work in good jobs in our country of Canada in our chosen field even if it means living in Montreal. And we should have the Canadian government and people backing us up instead of blaming us and abandoning us. Anglophones should have the same rights to these jobs as francophones especially when the revenue and/or federal tax dollars supports these jobs..

    16. FROM ED
      Complicated you are right on.. When he says what happened to him years ago it's bullshit. Nothing was done to him. You make your own life and live it. If you're not happy with how it turned out blaming some one else doesn't fly. i don't bother to read Mr. Sauga anymore.
      It's essential we keep the program simple. The best plan is to get the PQ government by electing another party. The best party (at this time) appears to be the Liberal party who have the bestb chance to get elected. Whether you like them or not, think PQ gone, PQ gone, PQ gone. I have a suspicion that when an election is announced you will see some agreements between CAQ and Libs.
      Bless you for caring about our homes and homeland. Quebec is a wonderful place to live if we don't let others (separatists) overcome us. Ed

    17. Right on with that last para complicated. 99% of this BS is not the fault of the anglophone or allophone communities and we do not deserve to be treated with disrespect for, what a lot of us, were decisions that were made in order to try to keep some semblance of sanity and order in our lives. Support and assistance from the ROC would go a long way in keeping our spirits up instead of kicking us when we're down.

    18. ED - I agree with you about getting rid of the PQ. In fact a CAQ-Liberal coalition government could be very interesting. However politically I think it would be too dangerous for either party..the PQ would demonize both of them and say they stand for cant trust them and so on.

      But big cuts to the equalization payments is a bad move in my opinion. I dont believe Harper will make big cuts to the equalization a year before an election..too much political risk. Keep in mind that per capita Quebec does not get the highest amounts of equalization..PEI, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Manitoba get more.

      Plus the federal government will be in surplus by 2015..pretty tough to argue that equalization needs to be cut. Quebec is moving towards bankruptcy on its doesnt need any extra help to get there and it needs to be clear that bankruptcy is caused by Quebec and not Canada.

    19. FROM ED
      `1973 , which party do you think would be most likely to defeat the separatists, Option National or Quebec Solidaire'
      Your vote would actually be for PQ. How's that workin out for ya.?
      Anonymous Coward, great pickup on the 'FRANC'
      A troll of all people would have no idea where they are going since even their government doesn't know. I remember when Rene Levesque was asked about the money he answered, There's no needv to think about that now. We're just getting started for God's sake, give us a chance."
      The biggest laugh of thed day is "Quebec recruiting an army." I'm still shaking with laughter over that one.
      Any way there will be no separation, no referendum and no Parti Quebecois. Be patient when Spring come it will all be over and we will be on the way up. You'll see, we willgo up a lot faster than we went down. Ed

    20. Moaning again, complicated?

      I'm cutting and pasting what you wrote: "anglophones..even those with good jobs should flee Montreal??"

      No, so if you don't want to or cannot find work outside of Montreal, by all means stay, but then fight back with demonstrations and not mock those who try to fight. Galgahov gave up, but Hugo Shebbeare didn't. He invited everybody to demonstrations he organized, but less than 50 people would show up. Why wouldn't you. CRITIQ hold meetings on the West Island. How many people are attending? From what I've seen, far, far too few. I watched one on YouTube. I saw a few dozen people and most were grey-haired.

      I would strongly urge those of you who want to stay, or feel you have few or no other alternatives, take the time and spend the gas or bus fare and go to the meetings. If you choose to stay home instead, you have nobody to blame but yourselves.

      Again, as I wrote previously concerning myself, if equalization and other overcompensation to Quebec is halted, you likely won't hear from me anymore.

    21. complicated:

      In reference to your last paragraph in your 12:19PM rant addressed directly to me yesterday, :here I cut and paste what you wrote:

      " We have the right to work in good jobs in our country of Canada in our chosen field even if it means living in Montreal. And we should have the Canadian government and people backing us up instead of blaming us and abandoning us. Anglophones should have the same rights to these jobs as francophones especially when the revenue and/or federal tax dollars supports these jobs."

      I agree with every word you wrote above, and ideally I agree with just about all your rebuttals,..IDEALLY being the operative word here. Unfortunately, when it comes to Anglophones and Allophones, neither Quebec nor the federal government operate in the normative world. Cutting and pasting your words, you'll notice I embellished your word should. We live in a positive world, i.e., a world of what is and not that normative world of what what ought to be. I like to think that a constructive society guided by a constructive government strives for excellence and a normative ideal. Here is a link giving a synopsis of how Plato explained and tried to live the philosophy of the Ideal Plane.

      This abandonment of the minorities in Quebec goes back to Daddy Trudeau. He said when this whole thing started it's the minorities in Quebec who are affected by all this and it is their problem. How did the minorities repay Daddy Trudeau for abandoning them? By voting him in by landslides in the Mount Royal constituency election after election after election. Mulroney followed Daddy Trudeau, and he didn't help. Chrétien followed Mulroney and he didn't help, and so on.

      Daddy Trudeau on down made it clear that no federal government is going to come to your rescue, that is, until Jason Kenny in the Conservative government stated intention to fight Bill 60 should it become law. My suggestion is you vote Conservative, and when and if Hugo Shebbeare or orthers like him, such as CRITIQ organize meetings and protests, you, and Ed, and every last able minority in Montreal and area make every effort to go to those gatherings, and get your family, neighbours and friends to do the same. Voting for the PLQ is NOT the solution; in fact, they're part of the problem, but as usual, the better ideas don't take place because demonstrations with 50 people and shooting down ideas like Equality 2.0 mean your protests, like 40 years ago, are inert.

      Not long before she died, my late mother MSRIP paraphrased something to me written in the scriptures, and it goes like this: "May God give me the strength to change what I can change, the courage to accept what I cannot change and the intelligence to understand the difference"..

      I like to think I took the courageous step because way back when I decided to move, a full ten years before I finally was able to implement my plan, I saw how inert the response was to the injustices inflicted by Quebec governments and its society of a tyrannous majority.

      Yes, complicated, and Ed, I chose the path of least resistance. Howard Galganov, Hugo Shebbeare and the organizers of CRITIQ are just either one small person or a few small people trying to rally those who are needed to resist if resistance is going to take place at all. Sadly, those who were and are still needed are not responding to the need thus, ergo and therefore you have ended up with what you deserve. For heaven sake folks, it has been 40 years of running yourselves into a profuse sweat on a treadmill and have gotten nowhere.

      I'm the intelligent one because I have learned the difference between what I can and cannot change and I don't want to pay for it anymore whether you like it or don't like it. It's as simple as that.

    22. complicated and Ed: One last thing to add to what I wrote immediately above: If you vote for Jr. Trudeau or Mulcair, nothing, BUT NOTHING for you will change in terms of your minority status in Quebec. They have both demonstrated very clearly they will back Quebec if they have to walk to the ends of the earth to do so, and since Quebec for both these men is their base, you'd be foolish to think otherwise.

    23. Could not agree more with Sauga. I would like to add a message to the ROC, do not be blind and vote for another Quebec born PM. They are the root cause to this mess and should not be trusted.

    24. Mr.Sauga..

      I guess we still come to the bottom line..and that is there are many thousands of anglophones and allophones living in Montreal. Many of us cannot leave easily for reasons I have spelled out to you. We apparently are in the country of Canada and many of us work for companies and even the federal government which is funded by money from the rest of Canada.

      I am well aware that Trudeau and every future prime minister has essentially abandoned us because they were terrified of Quebec seperating. I understand that the PLQ has also effectively done nothing for the anglophones here.

      But you coming on here and wanting the federal government to cut off equalizations payments is extreme and we..the anglophones/allophones will pay the ultimate price and undeservedly so. You seem to agree that many of us cant leave easily so again why should we be punished?? We have done nothing wrong..again if you really want to help then support us instead of proposing a policy which will only make us suffer even more.

      I sense that this crusade of yours has more to do with 40 years of bitterness and exacting revenge because you left Quebec. You are gone and free and sounds like you have done well. Your taxes are a lot lower than ours..the future is a lot brighter in Ontario. Thast still not good enough for you..on top of it you want to quick Quebec again when many of us are down. Why not go on a crusade about the other 4 provinces in this country who receive more per capita in equalization??

      You need to understand that a big cut in equalization will fire up seperation sentiment and result in a PQ majority. And its us..the anglophones who will pay the brunt of it..not you. Its very easy for you to wish for that from safe and sound Ontario. And the anglophones still living in Montreal are not dumb or insane for staying here as I have explained earlier. So why not give us a should be thankful for your situtation but you still want to puinish Quebec..get over your 40 years of bitterness.

    25. complicated: I am sorry you're having a hard time where you are, and yes, I'd like to see equalization cut back altogether because most of that money is used by provincial governments to their favour, not the feds. On the other hand, they are smaller provinces, smaller economies so they don't have as much opportunity to expand.

      At least the other provinces and their residents receiving the monies are loyal to Canada. They don't seek separation, they don't test the limits of our Constitution and they don't overtly attack minorities. If the PLQ showed more loyalty, maybe, just maybe I'd be more considerate, but they're just as vindictive as the PQ. The Anglo and Allo MNAs are obedient spineless Quislings and when their leader says 'jump' they respond 'how high'?

      Your last so-called federalist premier, none other than the half-non-old-stock John James Charest passed language legislation that didn't favour the minorities, hired 26 more language cops and an OQLF zealot to head the language SS. I would have gladly joined any demonstrations that could and should have taken place when Bill 22 came out followed by Bill 101, but there weren't any. Even my late mother MSRIP, said we should stay and fight, but there was no fight, just some inert comments in the Suburban, Star and Gazette, but no real action. Too much complacency. Galganov came onto the scene long after I left. He headed the Quebec Political Action Committee (QPAC), ran for office twice, hosted a morning radio show and started his own blog that eventually Americanized because Americans were more active in their politics, and more importantly, contributed more to his blog to help defray the costs of administering it.

      Sorry complicated, but aside from writing my federal government to cut out equalization to a people who for the most part scoff at Canadian values and test the limits of our human rights code (and even their own), I'm out. As I've said before, work with Hugo Shebbeare and CRITIQ.

    26. Mr.Sauga -
      Keep in mind that many Quebecers do not scoff at Canada. The anglophone and allophone community are all fiercely loyal to Canada and there is a sizeable number of francophones who are federalist. Only 30 percent of Quebecers support seperation so be careful when you label all Quebecers as being disloyal. The PQ and its supporters are disloyal and since their in power the impression is we all think like them..obviously that is not true.
      You have to keep in mind that the anglophone community is on pins and needles here because of the PQ minority government. We are all terrified of the PQ getting a majority which I am sure you can understand. In fact I would say Pauline Marois is the most scary PQ leader ever..she is among the least intelligent and most unscrupulous. If she wins a majority life will be awful here for anglos and allos.

      So you need to understand that at this point our goal is to make her elect another government next year. Cutting equalization is exactly the oil on the fire that will anger enough francophones to support the PQ. She will say that Quebec is being unfairly singled out and that Quebec needs to have a country. Combine this with a bad economy and people will be looking for someone to blame. \

      This is NOT the time for Harper to provoke a fight with Mme.Marois. Lets get rid of her..then maybe bit by bit equalization can be cut. Dont worry..Quebec is in worse financial shape than any other province already..we pay far more taxes than you do in Ontario..we are not exactly living like kings here. We dont need the federal government kicking us again when we are down.

      If I felt the federal government would step in and protect us or the ROC would give a damn about us then maybe more of us would stand up and fight. But you know as well as I do that we have no support from the ROC. Instead people blame us for living here and yet we are the ones suffernig the most. Sorry but even though you may be angry about the equalization payments this is not the time to make big cuts. I think Harper should continue his slow withdrawals..under the radar..not garnering too much attention.

    27. complicated:

      OK, here is the circular argument again, but I'll rebut until I'm blue in the face. You wrote "Keep in mind that many Quebecers do not scoff at Canada. The anglophone and allophone community are all fiercely loyal to Canada and there is a sizeable number of francophones who are federalist. Only 30 percent of Quebecers support seperation so be careful when you label all Quebecers as being disloyal.".

      My response: OK, so if only "30% of Quebecers" support separation, why does the PLQ constantly appease that "30%" and bring in laws that are equally stringent to the ones the péquistes pass? 30% of the voting population, at best, can only bring in a minority government, and this time the PQ got lucky. More often than not, they won't.

      Yes, I fully understand the minority community is on pins and needles...easily!

      "Pauline Marois is the most scary PQ leader ever..she is among the least intelligent and most unscrupulous. If she wins a majority life will be awful here for anglos and allos.".

      What can I tell you? It was only a matter of time before you'd get an Adolf Hitler PQ leader. Lévesque founded the PQ. Lévesque was by far the most benevolent of the group, followed by Pierre-Marc Johnson, yet the latter was eaten by the zealots. All PQ leaders get eaten sooner or later. Lévesque quit the PQ when he saw who he was leading, and realized the dream, during his lifetime anyway, was dead.

      Sorry there, buddy, but the battle with the minorities should have been nipped in the bud in the 70s. It wasn't, and so it has festered into the current result. With over 300,000 minorities gone, yours truly included, it's probably too late to change the tide unless every last able-bodied and able-minded minority gets into the streets and wreeks havoc. This hasn't happened since this all started, so how desperate is your community to get out there and fight?

      I for one am quite happy and thankful I left Quebec. My lady companion is thrilled too, and she loved Quebec because she needed their social programs when she was a single parent of two. She never asks to go back for visits let alone live there again. She loves it here in Ontario because she can speak to anyone and everyone.

      "If I felt the federal government would step in and protect us or the ROC would give a damn about us then maybe more of us would stand up and fight. But you know as well as I do that we have no support from the ROC. Instead people blame us for living here and yet we are the ones suffernig the most. Sorry but even though you may be angry about the equalization payments this is not the time to make big cuts. I think Harper should continue his slow withdrawals..under the radar..not garnering too much attention."

      I think you'll get your wish re gradual cuts exactly for the reasons you mentioned. Governments don't give a damn how you feel. They measure merit in votes. Not money, not emotions, VOTES!. Jr. Trudeau and Mulcair won't life a finger to help you because their base is Quebec. They'll sacrifice the minorities for the majority's votes without thinking about it or on a blink of an eye.

      Harper has five whole seats in Quebec and a majority government. Quebec never helped him got over the top. NEVER! Why should Harper do you any favours?

      Finally, yes, the ROC blames you for living there. For a whole generation, 300,000 minority people left Quebec and the b.s. you're living through now is worse than than it was when I was there. For 40 years, the PLQ AND PQ have been endlessly testing the language limits and even where challenges come up, there are always means to circumvent those obstacles. If you didn't know what Quebec was like prior to selecting your career as you mentioned previously, you didn't do your homework.

    28. If you didn't know what Quebec was like prior to selecting your career as you mentioned previously, you didn't do your homework

      What a load of bs your statement above is Mr.Sauga.There in no way that I could have possibly envisioned where I would be working at 20 years into the future. Life takes many twists and turns..find me one person who knows when they are 18-22 who can tell where life will lead them. And once again would you rather that only francophones work for Air Canada, CN, Bell, Bombardier, CAE, Pratt and Whitney, McGill university, Concordia universirty, Pfizer, Merck Frost and on and on..there are thousands and thousands of professional jobs in Montreal. You think its more fair that only francophones work in them even for companies that derive most of their money from the rest of Canada. How about all the federal government jobs here..only francophones should work for them,

      So you would rather have a 100 percent french Montreal within would rather send billions in equalization to Quebec where not one anglophone lives. You think that all these high paying jobs should only be available to the relatively small francophone population. If so then maybe you should be running for the PQ, These jobs are just as much the right of anglophones as they are francophones. We still live in Canada..we are Canadians and stop blaming us for making smart and reasonable decisions. What you are proposing is utter nonsense based on your pet peeve with Quebec.

      OK, so if only "30% of Quebecers" support separation, why does the PLQ constantly appease that "30%" and bring in laws that are equally stringent to the ones the péquistes pass?

      Because most francophones are ok with Bill 101..but that doesnt mean they all want to seperate. They want to ensure that french doesnt disappear and there was a real threat back in the 1970s whether you agree or not. And the PQ actually only received 31.9 percent of the vote last year which is pretty pathetic considering how unpopular the PLQ was due to their corruption failures. So it doesnt take much for the PQ to be fact 32 or 33 percent could give them a majority which is pretty sad given our stupid first past the post system.

  5. OMG - Maka Kotto, please kill yourself, you're utter and complete stupidity is embarrassing!

    This has got to be the most inane, juvenile crap I've seen coming out the the PQ since it's re-election yet.

    The Goddamn moron even admits he doesn't have the faintest clue how he's going to implement his little hare-brained wet dream.

    1. why is it inane and juvenile mate? you forgot to lay down your "reasoning".

    2. Jamais vu un individu aussi traumatisé à l'idée d'un Québec souverain...Il doit faire des cauchemars le petit coward.

    3. The PQ think this is a brilliant strategy.

      They had a close door meeting and came up with the plan of the most visible minority coming up with a bill to support the most ardent crazy PQ artistic loser.

      The PQ manipulation of the voter base for partisan reasons is approaching Venezuala dimensions.

      The book law is nothing but more PQ symbolism. Nobody cares if it works or even gets passed. It's just a cynical publicity stunt for the benfit of the craziest of PQ supporters.

      These are the same losers that are breaking windows of people that don;t live on welfare like themselves.

      Student, SR, YL, does it empower you to go around smashing windows?

      What's worse, a francophone that's been successful in business as a traitor to "Les Quebececois" or an immigrant that wears a headscarf?

    4. What happened to PQ government plan to seek control of employment insurance in Quebec?

    5. Who cares what the PQ plan is for that. They won;t be in govt long enough to spend the money.

      the most important thing uis that Harper is cutting off funds that Quebec uses disproprtionately then other provinces.

      There was just an article in the newspaper yesterday about how all the Quebec "ski centers" say it's so much easier to hire people this year. They don;t have to compete with welfare for people. Other years they have to use "temporary foreign workers".

      Can you imagine. People living in the country too lay to work? Who would have though? They are happy to sit at home on welfare.

      This is the true Quebecois outside Montreal. Happy to stay on welfare and take govt money and complain about anglophones and immigrants.

      It's awesome to see them "forced to work". In seppie speak "their rights to be poor francophone and spend all day on welfare navel gazing and masturbating about their superior culture" have been violated.

      Anyway as usual this solution has had to be forced onto Quebec. IE Harper changing the rules.

      Federal Liberals could never have done it. There isn;t any strategy that shovels money at Quebec that they would dislike or wish to change.

      All in the name of "buying peace". Meanwhile the rest of us know, you can;t negotiate with terrorists.

      As long as the Federal Liberals can keep electing mafia made men like "our man in Canada" Alphonso Gagliano they don;t care what happens to the country.

    6. cebeuq: Did you just come to this epiphany? Good link BTW. I think the anti-gentrification squad division of the Axis of the Ignorant is worried these up-and-comers will not support the PQ and so suddently HoMa may no longer be the PQ stronghold it has been since the PQ's first foray into politics back in 1970. I can see where it would be hard for the evil Axis of the Ignorant to swallow that, and they're reacting in their typical neandrathal way.

    7. Sauga,

      The conservatives are the ony party right now that can possibly save Canada and keep it together.

      Liberals and NDP fall all over themselves to be "sensitive" (ie lots and lots of $$$$) to Quebec needs.

      The NDP are on the verge of taking over the positions of the Bloc Quebecois. They are seperatist whenever they need to be. They are federalist when they need to be.

      Whatever the audience they tune the message from one end of the political spectrum to the other.

      The Federal Liberals arn;t as morally bankrupt and confused as the NDP (it would be hard) but they are a close second.

      Every single federal party except the Federal Conservatives believe in handing more money out to placate the carazies in Quebec to the detriment of the rest of Canada.

      The only way to "fix" Quebec is to cut it off from cash. Force it to go bankrupt faster.

      The Liberals and the NDP would prefer to have the open wound of Quebec fester for another 100 years.

      The conservatives know enough to try to cut off the gangrene before it infects the rest of the body.

    8. I think Harper should continue to do it a slow pace. I will agree that so far he has been picking away at Quebec bit by bit and that is a good strategy. If he makes big cuts to the transfer payments next year then it will ensure a PQ majority. I live here and I dont want a PQ majority even if it makes people like Mr.Sauga happy. We..the anglophones living here will become the punching bag of the PQ..we are the ones who will be attacked. And if this happens I dont see Mr.Harper coming to our rescue and it is not fault of our own. There will always be some anglophones living in Montreal as long as we are a part of Canada.

      I would slowly reduce the equalization payments and do it in a way that does not make it obvious that Quebec is being singled out. That is the smart way of doing it..bit by bit as he has been doing.

    9. Canada is the boogeyman to Quebec for real and imaginary things.

      The PQ invent anglo Canada insults and manipulation of Quebec already. Every week is another "give us what we want".

      I'm not sure that Harper cutting off Quebec in more of a public way would make much difference. A PQ loser is a PQ loser, before and after.

      The most important things are that Quebec keeps getting cut off. No more special treatment for Quebec.

      Hopefully Harper can damage Quebec more before he gets voted out in a few years. Once the Federal liberals come in they will open up the spigot to Quebec again and set us back decades.

      The Liberals will order up a bunch of crap from SNC/Bombardier etc.

      That way the unions are happy and the "Liberal business elite" are also happy. They can embezze 10% of the money before the mob gets their 10% and the union the last 10% of the inflated prices.

      Liberals, PQ, NDP are ok with corruption as long as their people get taken care of. They justify it away. "All cultures steal" etc.

      Conservatives are the only people offended by the lack of values and conviction of our politicians. Except for stupid mistakes at least their hearts and minds are in the right place.

      Liberals/NDP consider corruption just part of life. Taking a bit for themselves along the way. Quebec thinking really.

    10. I really dont believe the Conservatives are any less corrupt. Just look at the senate scandal..the tony clement spending big bucks in his riding bs..the nsa spying scandal. The Cons are looking after their interests just like any other political party..they all play the same game.

      Remember that Quebec per capita gets less in equalization payments than 4 other provinces. Keep in mind that a drastic cut in equalization payments is not a smart strategy a year before an election. It also could allow the PQ to get elected. I dont know if you live in Quebec but I dont want the PQ running this province for another 4 years. Harper can make some smaller cuts to the payments or reduce the annual increase..he can continue his slowly but surely strategy of taking money away from Quebec. When Quebec runs into financial problems it needs to be clear that it was the Quebec governments fault..we dont need ammunition from them saying that it was because of a cut in equalization and so on.

    11. FROM ED
      Cebeuq, you sure love to slander the Liberals. Not a word of corruption has come out against them Federally or Provincially since Chretien's little escapade in 1995 which included merely a handful of Frenchman. the Liberal Party of Canada consists of hundreds of thousands of decent men and women across the country. Housewifes in the kitchen making supper for their families, men in safety helmets gping into mines and industry. these are decent honest people and when you call the party corrupt you are libeling them just like people who call all of us Quebecers separatists Keep dissing the Libs, caling them corrupt will bring a repeat of last year when they were wrongly labeled corrupt by people like you.Ed. Why do you wish another four years of PQ on us?

    12. I do live in Quebec. Montreal.

      I dn;t want the PQ in power either, but I don;t want the status quo to continue on forever.

      If Quebec is going to get the PQ and separate then I and many anglo's will finally leave. So be it.

      The situation of "death by a thousand cuts" that we have now isn;t acceptable.

      About the only thing to get me to leave will be a PQ majority. It wont be a hard decision at that point. There won;t be any commercial activity left in Montreal. I'm a business owner and there won;t be any business left to worry about. I'll be taking the jobs I created with me.

      Once thq PQ take power then finally people can talk about Montreal as a city state or seperating back to Canada.

      I'm beginning to think Quebec seperating and Montreal seperating from Quebec is a BETTER alternative to Quebec staying in Canada like we have now.

      "Les Quebecois" are just too destructive a society to mix with other first world nations. Lets just kick them out.

      Sure nobody wants to support Montreal city state right now. Just wait until the PQ have a majority and start the major push to vote. Then finally Montreal as a city state can be a serious project.

      The conservative "corruption" in the senate is a miniscule problem compared to "gomery comission" or Charbonneau etc.

      The biggest problem Canada has is Quebec not the senate scandal. We need to stop getting distracted on the small stuff and focus on where the major scams and money are wasted.

      For every $1 that is wasted in the senate $1 billion is wasted in Quebec. It doesn;t even compare.

    13. Me too - I don't want any more "status quo" BS - it gets worse and worse here and the break must be made. All the areas I've mentioned before have to figure out their own destiny and it does not lie within a separate quebec. The people will finally hit the streets to get out of quebec tout suite once a winning referendum takes place. Other than that, we go on indefinitely being harassed and cut to pieces every time there is an election. Partition is the way out for most of us!

    14. FRIOM ED
      The status quo doesn't have to go on forever. Just get rid of the PQ and it's over. Why discuss things like separation and division that's never going to happen. Montreal City state is never going to be. Scams and waste will be dealt with when the time comes. Have a little faith in Philipe Couillard. Countries have been turned around by one good man in the past. Marshall Tito in Yugoslavia kept peace between some of the worst haters on Earth, the Serbs and Croats. Gorbachev turned the USSR around with glastnos (even though that sick bastard Yeltsin took the credit) If Couillard is a good man he will turn Quebec around. Anyone can do it. It only needs to open the door to investors who will take over and run thir own projects to Quebec's benefit.
      I don't know how you can say the Conservatives are better money managers than the Liberals. Martin had our debt paid down to 486 billion from the 586 billion that Mulroney saddled us with. harper has it over 600 billion. Harper doesn't need corruption or waste to get us in debt he just spends it away. What has he done forn us while flouting 100 billion dollars. With Conservatives it'' s always the same. A few choice people benefit and the rest pay the bill. The Liberals have alway had to clean up the financial disgrace left by Tory P.M. like Diefenbaker, Mulroney and now Harper. Ed

    15. Be very careful what you wish for. You may think things are bad now but they can get a lot worse. If Harper antagonizes Quebec with big cuts to equalization and we end up with a PQ majority then life will get a lot tougher for all of us. You say you have a business cebeuq..good luck selling it and your house if the PQ win a will take a financial hit. If a flood of anglos flee to Toronto or Calgary then expect to pay a lot more for housing there and to restart your business. It may be worth it in the end but I think it will be a lot more unpleasant than many people think.

      History is full of examples of regional disputes that get out of hand and in the end everyonoe suffers greatly. An economic crisis is what we really need to fear..its coming and Quebec will already be hit hard by it. We dont need Ottawa kicking us further.

    16. Troy - Will we be part of NAFTA?
      This is for certain. In fact, membership of NAFTA is the prerequisite of independent Quebec and one non-negotiable item in the negotiation.
      Part of whose prerequisite? Are you saying that the separatists automatically expect to be part of NAFTA and that Canada will participate in this? If so, I totally disagree with that. Canada, if smart, will hold this over the heads of the separatists to negotiate partition of this province and rightfully so in the best interests of Canada.

    17. Ed- one election means nothing - the BS is still hanging over our heads and it doesn't matter which provincial party is in power. Nothing will change except we won't have overt discrimination - rather it will be going on behind the scenes in the backroom cutting deals made to please the franco-supremacists. When are you going to realize this? All of us have told you the same thing but you keep thinking that one election is going to make a big difference in the overall economic failure of this province. All those people that vote for the PQ EXPECT to be bums at government expense and there is not one party, including the liberals, that will change the welfare state of the mentality of these bums. If they did, they would never see the light of day again. Get ready to leave your keyboard when they come into power and it finally dawns on you that nothing has changed! Just be at a slower pace - that's why many of us want this all to come to a conclusion - to move on with our lives no matter what - just get it to hell over with!

    18. FROM ED
      My God Cutie, if ever there was a downer in this world it couyld never surpass you for depressing ideas.I' ve never seen anyone that could see the down side of things the way you do. The worst part is that it's all in your imagination which runs wildly to the bad side. You think you're the great oracle that knows exactly what future governments who have not even been born yet are gooing to do. And you believe it will all be for the worst.
      Where do you get this "all of us have told you so"? You think because you've said the same thing so many times that eaxch time it was someone else who said it. The only ones who have said anything like that are the ones in ypur little support group Mtl.1973 and Cebeuq. I don't listen to know nothings that are so sure they do. You say francophones will never vote for the Libs, how do ynou think they always got elected until last year when they were falsely accused of corruption like some of your group is doing right now. All you prove to me is that women can't understand politics. This is all over your head. Take a coffee and give it a rest./ Ed

    19. I don't know what world you live in Ed but it's not the same as the rest of us. You think you're insulting me because, again, you presume to be the smartest contributor on the whole blog but you live in fantasyland 99% of the time if you think the liberals will do piss all to improve either the economy or the problems that we face because you can't face them.

      So everyone that disagrees with you (and there are far more than Mtl 1973 and Cebeuq) are "know nothings" - again, presuming you know what's going to happen come the next election - makes you the brightest man in the world. Mr. Sauga is right - the liberals will do piss all to help anything and will support the PQ stupid ideas if it means getting the vote which includes surrendering more of our rights and freedoms and you don't give a shit because you will not be around to see what happens to the country because of people like yourself. The liberals have let these people run ripshod over us for 40 years and you presume to think that God Couillard will turn the party around when they have already backed down on items in both Bill 14 and the Charter of Quebec Values. Just because I don't live in the same world as you and believe all will be sunshine and roses after another election does not provide proof to anyone, except you, you insulting man, that women can't understand politics. And don't fucking tell me what's over my head - it's you that has head problems and I would suggest more than a coffee! Get over yourself! You have no idea on how to be civil with anyone that you don't agree with. Smarten up.

    20. Cutie003,

      Part of whose prerequisite? Are you saying that the separatists automatically expect to be part of NAFTA and that Canada will participate in this? If so, I totally disagree with that. Canada, if smart, will hold this over the heads of the separatists to negotiate partition of this province and rightfully so in the best interests of Canada.

      Read Jacques Parizeau's opinion on Quebec separation. He stated that a number of times that keeping Canadian dollar and be a member of NAFTA are basic economic principles that independent Quebec must have.

    21. Well that is their prerequisite - too bad - Again, they think they will be calling all the shots and no, I didn't read what Parizeau had to say because he is Parizeau and I don't give a damn what the separatists think, if they do, which is questionable at best. Thank you for clarifying though. I was not surprised to know that, as usual, the game is always theirs.

    22. @cutie003

      "...I don't give a damn what the separatists think..."

      and cutie003 proving again she is quebec's problem.

    23. FROM ED
      I'm sorry Cutie, I acn't take any more of your stupid shit. This is the last word I'll say on this until after an election. I don't know what it is with you, I thought we were at peace but I make a post full of hope tpo try tyo assauge peoples fears and give somethingpositive to look forward to but you can't leave it al;one. It might help people and you can't stand that so ypu attck mre and the rip my words apart in order to make everything look dire. Your links and words are constantly anti whatver they are about.
      I see you imagine me dead before the election. I may disappoint you You must know as much as God if you know when I'm going to die. You're obviously hoping the country will be in turmoil for decades after the PQ is gone but it .
      wont. The whole country was broke afterv world war two. We had a hell of a war debt owing to the U.S. .We were growing gardens to have food and store shelves were empty. On top of that a million men were coming home looking for jobs that weren't there. Hordes of refuges looking for a new life. We accomodated them all and put th country back on it's feet. As a boy I worked hard in my Scouit group collecting clothing and food day after day forv years.. Withion a few years our debt was paid and we were in the black with vevryone clothed, fed and housed.
      Positive thinking helps people feel good but like witch hazel you prefer turmoil and upset. Why couldn"t you just fucking leave my post alone. Let a little happiness into some lives. My God. Ed

    24. Well Ed as I've said before, you live in a illusion and I don't. I want to see a new provincial party that supports Canada and you keep on insisting that the liberals are a cure for what ails us. I certainly can not see you as any kind of resistance fighter during the second World War because you, and people like you, are willing to trade the values that everyone fought for during the worst times. The liberals and their political stance are strangling the rights of all of us to live under the Canadian Constitution by trading these rights away to the separatists, bit by bit. There is no "sunshine" or "happiness" in their election just further erosion. When you are willing to step up and admit that they need to change we will be able to have a reasonable discussion, but not until. You are not fooling one person on this blog with the BS that you spout about the liberals doing anything differently than they have done for 40 years. This is a battle for our life as we know it and you are not helping one bit by trying to pretend it's anything else. We don't need pep talks - we need action from the politicians; no more negotiations giving away our rights for social peace with these militants!

    25. When the Liberals get re-elected they will just finish the job for the PQ.

      The Liberals will tell us they need to pass a "lite" version of Bill 41 and the charter of pants and values.

      The PQ just get the Liberals to do their dirty work for them.

      I'm not interested in voting for a party that has PROVEN time and time again that they will not protect anybody from Francophone aggression.

      The official nattative that w are all supposed to play along with will be the Liberals NEED to pass a new language law so the PQ don;t do it..

      Yea exactly. Fucking opportunistic assholes is what they are.

      Unfortunately if in my riding when the time comes and the vote is needed to make sure the PQ doesn;t get elected. I only give it grudgingly. IF my riding is "safe from PQ" like most times, then there is a snowball chance in hell I'll be voting for the Liberals.

      Lets call it what it is

      Liberal Bill 101, not PQ Bill 101.

      That says it all. When these are your friends, what exactly do you have?

    26. My my my, but this is one long thread! Probably the longest I've seen and it keeps on lengthening, but for a good reason. This is a delicious debate and I'm enjoying every word of it, esp. between Cutie and Ed.

      Ed, at 77, I still wish you a long life and that the rest of your years with us are good ones and you get to enjoy a lot more quality time with your grandchildren, and maybe great grandchildren. Be that as it may, most of your life is behind you. You're retired now, so despite the battles going on, little will change for you except that when you need Quebec government services, you better know how to ask for them in French.

      There comes a time when you don't care about the extraneous events and focus on yourself and your immediate family. Perhaps the brain is set for that when we reach our golden years. I still have some time before I find out for sure, but based on experience with most of my elders, this is how I observe it.

      Cutie and Ed, and other readers as well: Debate should not be the enemy of respect. I confess that at times I've brought out the worst in both of you and others as well.

      My philosophy of life is not to sugar coat. I find that does more harm than good. I occasionally play chess with my son and I've learned it's a good mind exercise and in certain schools, they put time aside for the kids to play chess. I never threw a match with my son, and at first I beat him all the time, often easily. I felt by doing this, I'm not preparing him for real life It's dog-eat-dog and more competitive than ever because the parents of today are conditioning their kids for competition. Eventually, he was starting to catch on to my mistakes, i.e., he was getting better at chess.

      He eventually joined the Royal Canadian Air Cadets and has taken to it passionately and seriously. He has been promoted at a pretty fast track and has the respect of his peers. He is constantly taking programs there to learn and develop his leadership skills and from the experiences he's shared with me, I think this will help him go far in the world, farther than me. He has a lot more self-discipline than I did at his age, and I hope he builds on it in the years to come.

      I think this is so because I don't sugar coat and I tell things like they are. I see it a disservice not to get to the heart of the matter. I certainly try to do it in a tactful way and by simplifying my explanations to ensure I'm understood.

      In the case of Quebec, I'll come to the fight and hold nothing back. Sorry Ed, but I don't see the Liberals as anything but a soft core version of the PQ. This isn't done just to appease the separatists, but to appease the Francophone majority at large. Both parties govern themselves this way because the tyrannous majority WANTS it this way.

      OK, we have seen very clearly for 40 years what the «Québécois de souche want. It has become very predictable. There have been ebbs and tides with both the PLQ and the PQ, just as there is in all politics.

      The following is not meant to single anybody out, so I'm not implying anything about anyone unless you choose to believe I am, and that is then your problem.

      What is the definition of a moron? In the simplest sense, it is a person who expects a different outcome when the same action is repeated over and over again.

      Both parties have time and time again shown us their intentions and true colors. After 40 years, it should be apparent. Their track records speak for themselves. If anyone reading this blog through the last couple of years doesn't get it, then may God bless you.

    27. I too am sick and tired of the "sugar coating" that goes on until infinity by the politicians and that's exactly why I'm on this blog. The BS has to stop and the hard truth, whether we like it or not, has to be brought to the forefront in this political nightmare that we live in quebec. The separatists are masters at it - we have to give them that much - but it has to stop. I don't care whether it's done by politicians at the provincial or federal level, but it must be done. People have a right to know the truth, the trials and tribulations of tearing this country apart but, up to this point in time, only some of the people have even a vague idea of how this is going to affect all of us - francophones, anglophones and allophones alike. The separatists and the people that vote for them, as observed on this blog alone, think they will make all the decisions and will walk away with everything they want and no one, NO ONE, except some ordinary citizens, are debunking these myths. I want to have a real discussion about real issues that we will find ourselves facing, not the BS that the politicians tell the voters! Bring on the truth and let's talk about that for a change - then people can make up their minds about what is best for the citizens of both quebec and Canada.

    28. I agree with Sauga and Cebeuq with respect to the PLQ. They have had more than their fair chances to show us that they care about anglophones and our rights..they have shown over and over that in the end they really dont..they are there to follow the majority francophone vote which likes Bill 101. They may in the end even pass a watered down version of Bill 41 to get the votes. They are as opportunisitc a party as I have ever seen. They in some ways are worse than the PQ because they are wolves in sheeps clothing. They pretend they care about anglos and minorities but when push comes to shove they do norhing about it. They have also proven time in and time out that they cant manage money any better than the PQ..they have racked up as much debt as the PQ. In fact the PQ under Bouchard were the only ones to make serious cuts and balance the budget.

      So..once again I come back to a third option..the CAQ. People..what do we have to lose by voting for the CAQ??? I mean, Cutie, you keep ranting and raving about getting it over with..lets just get the seperation or referendum on with it sooner than better and you believe the CAQ as just like the PQ. So, using your logic, if you vote for the CAQ then we are moving close to seperation. However, I believe the CAQ are not like the PQ. I believe they are the only party that is proposing tax cuts, reduced debt, getting tough on corruption and led by a businessman. We need a successful businessman running this province..someone who knows how to boost private investment..he is clearly the best choice in this regard. As an added bonus the CAQ dont want to talk about language for another 10 years..perfect.

      Sauga is absolutely right when he says that doing the same thing as you have for the past 40 years will not change anything. Couillard will be no different than Charest or Bourassa..its the same party with the same manipulative ways..the same party that presided over the most corrupt period in our history. Lets say we vote for the CAQ..can they really be any worse than either of the two parties..I really dont think so and there is a decent chance that they will be able to turn the economy around. And if they fail then we will be no worse off then if the other two were in power..what do we have to lose?? We are at a point where we cant afford to diddle around..the debt is massive..the ecnomy is goingi nto the toilet..taxes are sky high..frencg/anglo tensions are high.

    29. This comment has been removed by the author.

    30. Yes complicated I see your point and you're probably right - I did have hopes for the liberals when they changed leadership but with Couillard backtracking on Bill 14 and the charter, those hopes have died away. Anyway, I will make up my mind when the next election is called to see exactly what's out there. The Quebec Conservative Party seem to be getting their act together and I will be checking out their platform as well. People are really ticked off with the liberals and their political manipulation of the federal votes so we shall see what we shall see. Meanwhile, let's keep up on where they all stand on everything - we sure as hell know the PQ will totally destroy our social peace and further ruin the economy with total disregard for the good of the province so we eliminate them at least.

    31. It is of little consequence who has the reigns of Power in the province, they are all separatists to varying degrees, this isn't news but what is significant is this province is carrying a 260B $$ Debt and and no one is stepping up with how it will be paid or lowered even.

      To boot, we are taxed through our bloody noses in this province, nothing works and we all know that the Infrastructure especially in Montreal is a disaster. This is what we wake up to daily.

      I've been travelling this past week and returned this evening. I can't believe how backward we are compared to the rest of the country….we couldn't catch up if we tried, THIS is what I am reminded of every time I leave and return.

    32. Complicated,

      I voted CAQ last time. I might vote for them again.

      Let me put it this way. So far I'm less disappointed with the CAQ then the PLQ.

      Sure, I'd like them to come out stronger on some things. They seem to want to work off the "death of a thousand cuts" against the PQ. IE Negotiate the PQ to death with no intention of actually settle.

      This is unique position of the Liberals that enter negotiations with the PQ as some kind of serious "meeting of the waters" where a settlement of some kind is reached.

      The CAQ understand it's all 24x7 news cycle optics and there is value in playing it differently.

      It's unfortunate they are not doing better.

      Lets face it. Much of Quebec have voted again and again for things that are not the PQ and the PLQ.

      We are tired of the same shit. Separation ain;t gonna happen. Now stop asking!

      Can we sure the PQ for harassment?

    33. Well there is no perfect party nor will there ever be. In my experience I vote for the party I dislike the least which is sad but true. I think the Quebec conservative party has some great ideas but they have zero chance of even electing one person. The CAQ are the only party other than the usual two that has a viable shot at winning. Right now it looks pretty bleak but a year ago they were polling quite high. I will admit that Francois Legault is not the most charismatic leader out there..that is a weakness..I have never personally cared if a leader had personality..all I care about is that they manage things well particularily our tax dollars.

      The CAQ is the only party that is attractive to more right wing francophones and anglophones, soft nationalists and federalists. There is no question that socialists hate the CAQ as they are definitely for reducing the nanny state. The real problem for the CAQ is not scaring away too many francophone votes who are worried about them cutting all their benefits. I think a big reason there numbers have fallen is because people find Legault somewhat stiff and they dont like the talk about cuts. It would certainly help if more anglophones supported the it would send a strong message to the PLQ that they can no longer take out vote for granted and it would show francophones that anglophones are not as stubborn as they are often perceived.

      Look at how quickly francophones will switch their vote..the move to the NDP in the last election was stunning. I was quite impressed to see how so many people could change their point of view. I wish the anglophone community was more dynamic in that respect..we keep on doing the same thing over and over and over and look at where it has led us..nowhere but down. Lets send a message to the PLQ..enough is enough..I refuse to be treated like dirt anymore by these master manipulators.

  6. @ Student
    'why is it inane and juvenile mate? you forgot to lay down your "reasoning".'

    I would like to know if you are for or against the proposed book law, and why.

    @ SR
    "Jamais vu un individu aussi traumatisé à l'idée d'un Québec souverain...Il doit faire des cauchemars le petit coward."

    Instead of wasting your intellect trashing other posters, I would honestly like to hear your viewpoint on how I, as a native born anglophone Quebecer, would benefit from the project of Quebec sovereignty.

    1. Two Cents Worth,

      You wrote: "Instead of wasting your intellect trashing other posters..."

      Is it not a contradictio in termini?

    2. FROM ED
      Troy, the question you should be asking 'Two Cents Worth is, why the hell are you communicating with student? Every one else is trying to ignore the trolls. Ed

    3. @two cent worth

      i'm for the proposed book law because i think it will prevent small bookshop from folding under the pressure from wallmart and costco. at least it will help them survive. i would even support a bill that would ban huge american retailers from setting up shop where i live.

    4. "i would even support a bill that would ban huge american retailers from setting up shop where i live."

      That tells you all you need to know about the separatist mindest.

      "I don't like how you do things, so I will bend (even break) the law to have MY way. Forget the circumstances, fuck the consequences...I have my own idea of how the world works and you will conform to my point of view."

      What ignorant narcissism.

    5. @anonymous coward

      please expand further on what my quote above says about the separatist mindset. you don't provide any clue about your "reasoning".

      and the second quote you use is actually yours. i wonder what you had hoped to accomplish with it.

  7. Les élèves québécois sont forts en maths


    1. Shanghai (China)

    2. Hong Kong (China)

    3. Singapore

    4. Japan

    5. Korea

    6. British Columbia

    7. Ontario

    8. Alberta

    9. Finland

    10. Ireland

    12. Canada

    13. Quebec



    1. Shanghai (China)

    2. Hong Kong (China)

    3. Singapore

    4. Japan

    5. Finland

    6. British Columbia

    7. Estonia

    8. Alberta

    9. Korea

    10. Vietnam

    13. Canada

    24. Quebec


      1. Shanghai (Chine)

      2. Singapour

      3. Hong Kong (Chine)

      4. Taipei chinois

      5. Corée

      6. Macao (Chine)

      7. Japon

      8. Québec

      9. Liechtenstein

      10. Suisse

      15. Canada

    2. YL -
      Well Montreal is always lauded as the city with the most universities and so many well educated people and so on. And yet the economy in Montreal is among the worst consistently in Canada. There is more to creating wealth and a succesful society than higher education. These brainiacs need some common sense and a good work ethic which in general is seriously lacking here.

      I find that the worst political leaders are the ones who spent their life in academia. These people have no clue how the real world works..they spend their lives theorizing on paper how everything should work. Look at our beloved Nicolas Marceau..a lifetime university economics professor..he couldnt manage a lemonade stand. He really went on tv stating that the Quebec government has no control over revenues. he thinks that handing the natural resources ministry to an environmental zealot who believes no development is the best course is helping the economy? I guess he believes that the focus..again..on sovereignty and now values is not scaring away potential investors in of course not..the fact that he was going to apply a retroactive tax last year which is unheard of. This guy is supposedly a genius with economics but he has zero common or business sense.

      We need entrepreneurs running the government for at least 10 years..people who know how to create wealth and know how to attract business. Quebec desperately needs yes the high ranking of the math score is nice but it says nothing about common sense which is sorely lacking from most Quebecers.

    3. complicated, your last paragraph makes a lot of sense, but I don't think THEY will vote for a government made up primarily of the minorities, especially the Old English families that contributed most of the wealth. THEY are the majority and THEY are the bitter pills who abandoned the church angry and disillusioned after being led astray by one false doctrine after another for over two centuries.

      THEY still see themselves as victims of these false doctrines and expect the rest of us to perpetually bail them out quietly with smiles on our faces while we do so.

      Sometimes I guess it's fun playing the Pollyanna card, eh complicated?

    4. For the sake of the trolls - maybe YL can finally read some truth?

    5. I wonder why resident separatists on this blog like to only flaunt that achievement in math? Le Devoir does that too. Its article is only about the math. In the mean time, look at La Presse article. It clearly shows that in other two categories Quebec lags behind Canada average. Why brag about one win when the "opponent" has two wins?

      As an analogy it is like Quebec brags to Ontario about its 53 gold medals in the Canada Summer Games. Yeah, it is fine to have 53 golds, but Ontario has 95. What is there to brag about?

    6. Cutie,

      Quel est le rapport de votre intervention ?
      Votre article parle de la situation des élèves du Nouveau-Brunswick, alors que Y.L parlait des étudiants du Québec.
      Je sent de la malhonnêteté intellectuelle de votre part. Dommage.

    7. Then don't talk about only where they excel in math and it does not give a breakdown of francophone vs anglophone math students. Pretty hard to believe that these are francophone math students when the francophone dropout rate is at 50% in quebec, right?

    8. "Je sent de la malhonnêteté intellectuelle de votre part"

      Vous êtes nouveau sur ce blogue,n'est-ce pas ?


    9. How many Quebecois Nobel laureates: Zero
      What is the most famous invention of Quebec? Poutine

  9. Marois Government broke mining promises

    "I beleive that the different signals send by the Government will have harmed the (mining) industry" says Nochane Rousseau, of KPMG.

  10. Reality:

    Quebec currently is about 248 billion in the red ink side of the balance sheet. Add an additional 135 Billion for the provinces share of the federal debt and that is about 400 billion. That's a lot of red ink. The current equalization formula doles out about 8 billion per year to Quebec more than Quebec contributes to federal reserves. Add to this, the gluttonous share of agricultural subsidies where 22 % of the population of Canada receives 50% of the pot guaranteed. Without equalization payments the residents and businesses in Quebec would see an immediate tax increase of about 15% to cover the shortfall in revenue if social programs were to be maintained. Compounding the problem is the crumbling infrastructure which must be replaced or repaired with an ever eroding tax base.

    Quebec separation ?

    Immediate loss of 8-10 Billion dollars in equalization and subsidies forcing either huge tax increases or large cuts to social programs.
    This would result in an exodus of business and private people who would leave the province to preserve their economic well being. This exodus would result in further erosion of tax base. (remember what happened in 1995)

    Quebec debt would be compounded by higher interest rates commensurate with higher risks. Essentially, Quebec bonds would be classified as junk bonds. Putting it in perspective....imagine the interest rate on Quebec debt would rise to 5%. The yearly interest would be about 20 billion dollars on the massive 400 Billion dollar debt. This combined with the withdrawal of equalization would create a deficit of 30 billion dollars per year. This would represent a figure of about 50% of the current Quebec Provincial budget.

    The creation of a sovereign Quebec state is simply not an economic reality and will most probably never happen.

    In short, Quebec's current level of debt is about 94% of the provinces GDP which puts the province in the same dire straights as was seen in Greece. The province is for the most part bankrupt.

    No need to worry about what currency to utilize as there will never be a Sovereign State of Quebec. The separatism threat and sabre rattling by Quebec political leaders (Duceppe, Marois, Parizeau) has only been used as an instrument of extortion against the ROC. Unfortunate for Quebec that this is now becoming widely understood in the ROC. A dog with rubber teeth is of no consequence.

    Further belt tightening in the have provinces will definitely have an effect upon the level of subsidies that Ottawa sends to Quebec. News flash....Alberta running a record deficit this year. In Saskatchewan this morning Potash Corporation laid off permanently over 1100 people due to low worldwide prices of the commodity. How do you think the people in Alberta and SK feel about Ottawa sending money to Quebec to support social programs that do not exist in the so called "have" provinces.

    Myself, I feel the ROC would likely be better off without Quebec as for the most part Quebec is a political and economic liability. Take for instance the Official Languages Act which has cost Canada 100's of billions of dollars since 1969. An ill conceived program incepted and engineered by a prime minister from Quebec. Meanwhile, in Quebec, you have bill 101!!!

    Sorry to hear about the passing of Paul Desmarais. An outstanding Canadian business fellow from Quebec. Oh, wait, actually Paul Desmarais was actually a Franco-Ontarian.

    1. Correction: 260B in debt and counting.

    2. The main problem we have is that this stupid dream of independence still lives in the minds of too many people who will vote Yes not knowing they are voting themselves into bankruptcy. They never read anything they don't like to hear therefore vote themselves into oblivion without even realizing it. Sad to say, but there are many stupid people that reside here and, if the PQ have their way, will lower the voting age to the really stupid mentality of 16 year old kids that don't know piss all about anything except "freedom from the British rule" which is so much garbage but they believe it.

    3. Excellently explained, Westerner. As Cutie points out, the debt is higher than you think and the loss of the federal government goodies would put Quebec in worse shape. The debt and interest thereon would feed on itself. Should Quebec separate, I'm fine with that; in fact, I'd be extatic knowing I'd never have to pay into that loser welfare state again and my tax money would go towards building a better country.

      Quebec would end up sorrier than Greece because Greece at least had the Euro and that moronic plan of 20-odd years ago to bail them out. That infuriated the Germans big-time. Quebec would have to yield to Canadian monetary policy should it keep our dollar (when pigs could fly) and I don't imagine monetary policy would put Quebec first (unless Trudeau or Mulcair become our leaders). I simply cannot see Quebec retaining our dollar after finally becoming an independent state and being at the mercy of Canada's monetary policy...maybe the US's, but not ours just because of the ridicule they would inevitably face from us. Too, I don't see them being at the mercy of the American dollar, that is, if America decided to take them on (and if so, for a formidably high price, namely Quebec's natural resources that the U.S. would have no qualms about taking). America under those circumstances would take all the good out of Quebec and leave the refuse.

    4. @cutie003

      "The main problem we have is that this stupid dream of independence..."

      the main problem is you thinking absurd things like this. here you are claiming a nation should not seek to get a hold on its destiny. it is totally ridiculous. you'll have to get rid of this mindset and start handing over respect before you can hope of being a happy camper in quebec. or is dreaming of happiness "stupid" too?

    5. @student

      I'm happy in Quebec. Just not happy with KKKids like you running aorund with reckless abandon telling the rest of us how to live when you (ovbviously) don't even have the most basic life management systems in place for your own lives.

      BTW, love your "hand over respect" line...a Nazi mentality has never been so evident.

      Quebec Heil!

    6. As stated previously, respect is earned and for the past 40 years any respect I may have had for their desire to retain their language and culture is now lost and resentment is what I - respect? - never for these vampire blood suckers - that will never change in my lifetime nor will it for the ROC - we too will remember and that will be on their licence plates rather than the plates of quebec residents (which embarrasses me no end). They will get what they deserve and I can assure them it won't be "respect" as they line up at the food banks.

    7. Bang on Westerner...after partition , kick the bigots out ASAP.

  11. Bravo for Mayor Anthony Housefather of Cote St-Luc and also the Mayors of Hampstead and Montreal West to publicly and officially oppose the Charter affirming the values of State secularism and religious neutrality and the equality between women and men, and providing a framework for accommodation requests. I find this comment from Mayor Housefather interesting:

    "We will be here long after the Parti Quebecois disintegrates as a political party!"

    My question to fellow readers, is there any precedent where heads of municipal governments, in their official capacity, openly and publicly oppose the provincial government both policy-wise and politically?

    1. I wish all our civic leaders would step up and be counted like Horsefather. He is always confronting these separatists and trying to promote harmony within his municipality. Takes guts to stand up and be counted and he always does so. Proud of the guy.

    2. Absolutely applaud Housefather.

      I also applaud him for standing up to the STM and saying no reserved bus lanes. About time somebody curtails the STM social engineering.

      Artificially create massive traffic (traffic calming areas, construction, speed bumps, one way streets) then claim public transportation is the only solution. Side benefit lots more union jobs for PQ members.

  12. Editor,

    If there's anything that sticks in the craw of sovereigntists, it is Quebec's dependence on equalization payments and it's reliance on Alberta oil to help fill the permanent financial gap in the Quebec budget.

    Being forced to take Alberta charity is not only galling, but outright humiliating and so Quebec nationalists use the rationalization of the proverbial layabout, who complains that his rich brother-in-law, who helps support him, is a dishonest businessman anyways, making money on the backs of others.
    How convenient....

    While I know that you have much more personal and insider knowledge about the separatist movement and its actors that I ever will, I think you look at this particular matter backwards. What I can sense from the separatists is there is no negative sense about receiving the equalization payment at all. There is no feeling sorry or regret or sorrow in taking money from the RoC through the Federal Government. The rationale for that can be described as:

    1. It is their birthright to receive the money. As they are being subjugated by Canada, it is only fair that Canada pays Quebec to not do what Quebec needs and wants to do.

    2. The money is Quebec money anyway. Quebec sends a lot of money to Canada - a country needs not to pay money involuntary to other country - and it is only right that Canada pays back the money.

    3. Many - if not most - of the policies of the Federal Government favor RoC on Quebec's expense. Therefore Quebec is entitled to the payment as compensation for those unfair policies.

    4. Canada colonized Quebec against Quebec's consent. It is only fair for the colonized to receive reparation.

    5. Quebecois is a distinct people. As a distinct people they have distinct needs and distinct ways of doing their business. Canada needs to support that distinctness.

    Now, regarding the value of Canadian dollar as a petrodollar and its relationship with Quebec. Poster Jacques Noel at one day wrote that the high value of Canadian dollar is actually a major advantage for independent Quebec. He postulated that independent Quebec will be able to trade with Canada competitively since goods and services that Quebec produces will be significantly than the same ones produced by Canada. To achieve that goal he proposed that independent Quebec adopts US dollar, as US dollar has lower purchasing power even though the exchange is higher.

    Of course, a bit of critical analysis can easily find the holes in Mr. Noel's argument.

    1. He assumes that trades between new Canada and new Quebec will proceed as they are today. Never mind whether new Canada will be willing at all to trade with new Quebec.

    2. Just like you wrote Editor, lower currency for Quebec means lower purchasing power for Quebec population.

    3. He also assumes that hitching a country's economy to US dollar will not be affected by US internal policies. And maybe he also assumes that Quebec would have a say in the Federal Reserve System.

    1. Very well explained Troy and right on the money. That's exactly how the separatists think and feel about Canada and really honestly believe that all the money they receive is deserved even though many are bums.

    2. This link provides information about Quebec using the Canadian Dollar:

    3. FROM ED
      EDITOR, I have to agree with Troy. Francophones don't think about the money coming from Alberta or any where else
      because it doesn't actually come to them. It goes to Marois and as far as they're concerned they get the money from their government. They don't think about it as coming from any where else. Ed

    4. @ed

      francophones know quebec receives equalization. but they feel entitled to this money as canadians. alberta oil is their oil. it's every canadian's oil. you have a very skewed perception of your neighbour mate.

    5. he also assumes that Quebec would have a say in the Federal Reserve System.

      The US government has no say in the running of the Federal Reserve. It is a privately owned bank paying its' owners a 6% return. He's just showing his total ignorance with that assumption.

      To quote Benny Hill, "When you assume you make an ass out of you and me"

  13. Another bravo, this time for Mayor William Steinberg and the Town of Hampstead. The Town calls the Charter affirming the values of State secularism and religious neutrality and the equality between women and men, and providing a framework for accommodation requests as it is: racist and immoral. Further, the Town pledges that it will not comply with it and recognize it as a valid law should the Charter affirming the values of State secularism and religious neutrality and the equality between women and men, and providing a framework for accommodation requests be passed in the National Assembly.

  14. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTWednesday, December 4, 2013 at 6:42:00 AM EST

    studentTuesday, December 3, 2013 at 8:35:00 PM EST
    francophones know quebec receives equalization. but they feel entitled to this money as canadians. alberta oil is their oil. it's every canadian's oil. you have a very skewed perception of your neighbour mate.

    Sure it is. Its a one way street there buddy. If quebec explores for oil they would not share.
    Same with the french language outside quebec; demand french services in Banff or Vancouver but deny english services in Chicoutimi.
    Fraud you are.

    BTW quebec will be kicked out of Canada. Who's gonna help you? Cuba? Iran? Russia?

    1. 'BTW quebec will be kicked out of Canada.'

      I hope so, the sooner the

    2. "BTW quebec will be kicked out of Canada"

      Amen...Peu importe le procédé,il faut se dissocier de ce "pays".

    3. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTWednesday, December 4, 2013 at 5:49:00 PM EST

      Malheureusement pour toi S.R., lorsque les biens petits quebecois ont la chance de se prononcer sur leur futur, ils deviennent victimes de cafouillage... Meilleure chance en 2030???
      BTW le bien petit quebec sera en banqueroute a la grecque bien avant, j'en ai peur.

    4. Banqueroute a la grecque ou choucroute à l'allemande...Au point où on en est.

    5. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTWednesday, December 4, 2013 at 7:58:00 PM EST

      he he.... il faut avouer que c'est l'Allemagne qui a fait un "bail-out" a la Grece.
      A quand le tour du quebec? Un bail-out du bien petit quebec par les allemands, un culotte de cuir courte!!!
      Je vais vraiment bien rigoler lorsque tu mangeras une bonne choucroute allemande, pejorativement...


    More appropriate for the last thread but yet again, more stupid appointments from the PQ.

  16. Off topic, just read this story elsewhere, has this been reported here?
    The City of Montreal has purchased 24 drones to help law enforcement tackle crime as authorities look to cut back the police force over the next 15 years. The UAVs, equipped with facial recognition technology, will be armed to ‘neutralize suspects’.
    Montreal deploying fleet of facial recognition drones for 24/7 patrols

    Just to be clear, its RCMP drones flying over Montreal by early 2014!

    1. DD,

      Hook, line and sinker for you, eh? The story is a hoax.

    2. Lets keep the story alive.

      The drones are part of a anglo Canadian conspiracy to crush Quebecois culture.

      How? Who knows. Logic isn;t necessary for S.R, student or PQ voters. Identify a "common enemy" to "their culture" and wind them up.

    3. Une police à cheval équipée de drones...Vous nous prenez pour qui?

    4. Thanks for the link Troy, the story is all over the web. Found where it came from, :

      Montréal Nord | Le SPVM déploiera des drones à reconnaissance faciale

      Not that big a stretch considering the Americans are already using them domestically (Amazon wants to do drone deliveries ffs) and we manufacturer them in Waterloo, Ontario.

      Drones, coming to a piece of the sky near you

      Looks like we've got a little home grown onion.

  17. Longueuil - Rencontre tendue entre le ministre Drainville et des citoyens autour de la charte de la laïcité

    La salle était divisée lundi soir après l’exposé du ministre Drainville. La majorité des citoyens présents appuyaient cependant le projet de charte.

  18. You know folks, there's a reason why in Montreal we have expressions like "C'est pas mal 450" and the descriptor "coupe Longueuil."

    Expecting to find a sympathetic audience in that berg is like trying to find someone with a university education at a monster truck show.

    Anyhow, the more intelligent residents of Hampstead have absolutely no qualms with calling it for what it is:

    1. Le pouvoir est à Québec...Pas à "Hamster head" :)

    2. La charte règlera rien. Y`en a une charte en France qui va encore plus loin que celle du PQ. Ça rien réglé en France. La preuve, le FN est populaire. Le PQ copie la France dans tout. Je rapelle au péquistes que la France est en faillite avec des révoltes anti-taxe.

    3. Pas plus compliqué que ça...Voilà!

  19. "Dutch disease is the apparent relationship between the increase in exploitation of natural resources and a decline in the manufacturing sector (or agriculture). The mechanism is that an increase in revenues from natural resources will make a given nation's currency stronger compared to that of other nations, resulting in the nation's other exports becoming more expensive for other countries to buy, making the manufacturing sector less competitive."

    How about a simpler explanation for the decline in the manufacturing sector: outsourcing. And not because the "nation's exports becoming more expensive for other countries to buy", but because the cheap third world labor can be utilized.

    1. "How about a simpler explanation for the decline in the manufacturing sector: outsourcing."

      how about both? the possibility to exploit third world people and a petrol doped currency? killer combo.

  20. To borrow from Contra - And you want to make a country out of this?

    17 murders and he's out on the streets - only in this crazy, stupid province do things like this take place! What the hell?

    1. ontario : Yours to discover

    2. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTWednesday, December 4, 2013 at 5:45:00 PM EST

      Cette cutie.... Elle doit vraiment etre sado-maso pour hair le quebec et y habiter.

    3. Je l'imagine vêtue de cuir avec un fouet...Shhlack!!

    4. The un arse is again showing his psycho personality. Get an attendant nutcase.

    5. September 26, 2013 at 11:37am
      Loss of Choice Equals Loss of Freedom

      Looking back on the past 50 years of life in the Province of Quebec, specifically in Montreal, I cannot help but ask myself how far we have gone in setting our society back rather than having improved our quality of life.

      Our federal government has had a policy of non-interference with regard to human rights abuses, and has continued to appease successive Quebec governments, allowing them free rein in their treatment of minorities.

      It all started by falsely acknowledging that French Quebecers composed a distinct society. This is false, as by being Canadian citizens, we are all one society composed of many ethnic and religious communities. This is actually what should have made us unique to the world. However, because of this decree that Quebec is different from the rest of Canada, the significant minorities in Quebec have suffered degradation by a group who now consider themselves an elite clique and wish to separate from the very country that gave them the freedom to live as free men and women and worship their God as they wished.

      All of the disparities that have grown between the French and multi-ethnic people residing in this province, could have been avoided if successive federal governments had insisted that every Canadian citizen, no matter his or her origin, had the inalienable right to freedom of choice.

      If we had had freedom of choice, we would have been able to choose the language(s) we wished in order to conduct our daily affairs, as well as to have our children learn in school. It should be the marketplace which dictates the language of business, not the government. Any intelligent person would want their child to have the greatest choice possible when they entered the job market. Why would anyone want to limit their child’s chances of financial success by forcing them to become fluent in only one language?

      The original error by our Canadian government in allowing Quebec to become a distinct society in itself and then declaring that the French Canadians residing in the Province of Quebec compose a “nation within a nation,” has only succeeded in emboldening them to take away even more minority rights.

      Both English speaking and multi-ethnic communities, are no longer allowed to speak their own languages in large companies; and if Bill 14 should pass, any company composed of 26 or more employees, will be forced to speak French only while conducting business. Language police (OQLF) will be able to enter anyone’s place of business and seize merchandise and other assets for having an English word written on them. Store owners will be prosecuted and fined, all without recourse to the courts.

      If this is not bad enough, the Quebec government will soon be stepping on our right to religious expression via their Charter of Quebec Values. Public sector employees will no longer be able to wear religious articles to work even though they may be performing their duties very well.

      Choice is being taken away from us incrementally. If the Parti Québecois has its way, we Canadians living in Quebec will be deprived of the very rights we as a free people hold so dear to our hearts: the right of choice in language, culture, tradition and religion. We, as a people, as Canadians, cannot allow this to happen. We must insist that those we elected to govern our country act swiftly to protect our rights and ensure that this never happens again. We must remember that our federal government is there to protect and guarantee our rights, not to hand that power over to the provinces.

      Thank you for your time and God bless Canada!

      By Norman Simon

    6. Speaking of Louise Beaudoin:

    7. I like her fleur de banane earrings the best.

    8. @cutie003

      to un gars bs de frabkfort you wrote:

      " Get an attendant nutcase."

      well i think you're crazier than him mate. not by much but still you beat him.

  21. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTWednesday, December 4, 2013 at 7:53:00 PM EST

    "cutie" wrote:
    "The un arse is again showing his psycho personality. Get an attendant nutcase."

    And just who spends the major parts of their days - every day - on this blog foaming at the mouth, ranting against quebec all the while living there? Bingo!!!! It's cutie!!!!
    You have no dignity, my dear. Your baseless insults don't touch me. You have showed time and time again your severe lack of judgement. You planned to fail by living in anglais au quebec. Decrisses de l'autre bord.

    1. Un Gars, I am arriving late to this post and comments but I did scan the comments above and I agree with you about Cutie003, and others, "foaming at the mouth". I am frequently struck by how similar some of the comments on this blog are to the ignorant anglophobic gibberish which appears daily on "Vigile" and some other nationalist blogs. Except instead of the bad guys being anglophones and Canada here we find the bad guys are francophones and Quebec. Its ignorant, its tiresome, and it just detracts from any meaningful debate about the future of Quebec and Canada.

      And Dear Editor - you are part of the part of the problem with a blog about "The Trouble With Sovereignty" and the implicit suggestion that it may happen. Fugget about it. Sovereignty is not economically feasible for Quebec. Most of you get this and offer various condescending explanations about why its not feasible. Of course, its no more feasible for Ontario or Alberta. Its also not politically possible in the foreseeable future (i.e. minimum 25 + years) to find a clear majority in favour of a clear separation question. So we are left with a series of ongoing skirmishes provoked by sovereignists and francophone ethnic nationalists about what kind of headgear one can wear and whether Quebec should take over Employment Insurance etc. Free advice : Don't Sweat the Small Stuff !

      And for all of you folks, including our Poor Editor who worry about Quebec separating is some more free advice : DON'T WORRY - IT WON'T HAPPEN.

      By the way Cutie003 I think both you and S.R. and...hey ! even Student... will all die as Canadian citizens ! How about that...united, finally, in death.

    2. @sandy mctire

      "... even Student... will all die as Canadian citizens ! How about that...united, finally, in death."

      maybe, and maybe not. you're too confident. you'll wake up one day and it will have happened overnight. the yes vote is close to 40% now. if what you read here is any representative of the anglo canadian will, sooner or later equalization will be cut only for quebec, bill 101 will be skinned some more, french canadian identity will be diluted further and quebec resources will be spoiled. how do you think independance support will move?

    3. I will tell you the future of this province Sandy - as I foam at the mouth (stupid comment but what I expect from psycho un ars) = thought as a lawyer you had more class - more inequality, more despair, more strangling of the anglophone and allophone communities, more corruption and more people giving up on trying to make a life here without government interference and social engineering. All of the above because of our provincial governments be they PQ or liberals. What you don't get is that I couldn't care less if quebec leaves Canada any longer - in fact, if I didn't live here, I would be just like Mr. Sauga and want to kick them to hell out - the faster the better. Yes, I will die a Canadian but hopefully not under the tyranny of quebec. You and Ed are part of the problem we have here - you will accept anything from your politicians no matter the consequences. Instead of trying to improve the situation, you will sit back and watch it from afar and when it finally dawns on you just what kind of society you live in, you will quietly pack up and leave along with others that are forced out because life will become too stifling under the new regime. PQ and liberals - two branches of the same tree. We should expect more from our politicians but you and Ed are prime examples of why they don't improve - they don't have to. Why should they? You vote for them no matter what the hell they do. They also read these blogs and see that you don't expect them to change - they will continue to erode our rights and you couldn't care less. Shame on both of you.

  22. Replies
    1. Are we surprised language and religion inspection is more important, according to the Marois Government.

    2. From Ann
      Pet abusers often go out and abuse people. Same with the province of Quebec...they don't care about the welfare of animals, nor the welfare of any person who is not pure laine.

  23. Anonymous above wrote at 13:15 about Nobel Prize Laureates. So I looked the matter myself. There are 22 Canadian nationals (by birth or naturalization) and one Canadian organization that win the Nobel Prize in various categories. Amazingly, none of them is francophone.

    The closest one is Roger Guillemin who received his PhD at the University of Montreal. However, M. Guillemin is originally from France and he won the Prize in the United States as an American citizen. There are a number of Laureates who were born in the Province of Quebec, but ALL of them are anglophones. And interestingly, the Canadian university affiliated with the most Nobel Laureates is McGill University.

    So now I wonder. And this is a serious question, not sarcastic. Why is it that no French-Canadian ever won the Nobel Prize? This is despite the number of English-Quebecer Laureates and the top productivity of McGill University? Are francophones on the top level are not as intelligent as anglophones? Is there any aggravating factor in research in French environment in Canada?

    Yannick, if you are still around, can you please share your thoughts with us?

    1. Troy, if Quebec can't manage pet abandonment how do you expect us to win more Nobel prizes ?

      S.R...please explain how we can reach the promised land of more Nobel prizes and fewer pet abandonments through sovereignty. This is your moment.

    2. Je peux vous assurer qu'un Québec souverain n'abandonnera pas ses anglos...Promis.

    3. Seriez-vous titulaire d'un Nobel,Treuil ?...C'est bien ce que je croyais,le contraire m'aurais vraiment surpris.Vous n'êtes pas le seul sur ce blogue à vivre par procuration.

    4. S.R. as usual, you don't understand. We anglos are not worried about "un Quebec souverain". It will never happen.

      Also, don't ever think, for even an instant, that anglo Quebecers are worried about being "abandoned". By whom ?We can take care of ourselves just as we have been doing for the last 250+ years.

    5. It's of no use Sandy.

      See, you're a lawyer...your making your life. You've aspired to something as an individual.

      S.R has nothing. He consistently proves this day in/day out with stereotypes and franco-supremacist comments, meaning that rather than accomplishing anything as an individual, he relies on collective identification to achieve self-affirmation.

      What saddens me is that he has children and it seems like they have no choice but to develop into losers.

    6. The blog’s pet troll has recently acknowledged how miserable he is with his unhappy lot in life, which has made him determined to make everyone else as angry and frustrated as he is, cost what may, even if it ruins Quebec. Pitifully, his nature characterizes the very foundation of Quebec nationalism.

      It also explains why he evades every single question ever posed to him, always asking questions but never answering them, proudly making Quebec separatists look like fools to the world and thereby helping the federalist cause. A sad, conflicted character if ever there was one…

    7. Anonymous, I'm not big on the ad hominem attacks that are so popular on these blogs. Just a personal view. Please don't think I am trying to restrain the rest of you folks. But I kinda like S.R. (I think he wants to become a stand up comedian - unfortunately, sarcasm doesn't play well in stand up).

      But surely the stereotypes and the standard ethnic nationalist commentary that we all have to endure from S.R....and cutie003...tell us something about the future ?

      Toujours la meme rengaine. So we ask ourselves - is this their best shot ? Is that it ? And the answer is : Yes.

      As I suggested above - no worries - with folks like S.R. running the play we don't have to worry about sovereignty in our lifetime. I think S.R. is very typical and very predictable. You know, Anonymous, on consideration I'm sure I like him. He reassures me about the future of Quebec in Canada.

    8. It's the fault of the anglos that no francophone Canadians have ever won a Nobel Prize... at least, it is if you choose to buy into PQ orthodoxy.

    9. FROM ED Sandy, God it's good to hear from you. Finalluy someone who agrees with me. You're right, serparation will never come. Al this inane talk about dividing the province, we are not going to let that happen. Canada will never be divided. I see changes coming such as the Premiers meeting in December or shortly thereafter. Even talk about the transfer payments will cause much consterbnation with the government and those living on welfare. News of this kind of meeting cannot be held back by the Francophone press, it's too big. The yokels will hear that they might lose their income and smarten up.
      We know thaere has to be a complete budget before April and the state of affairs should trigger an election. All we need to get rid of the PQ is get the Liberal Party elected. We must be pragmatic, they are the only ones who have a chance of getting elected.
      There are some on this blog who are dissing the liberal party at every turn. They would drown the Libs with lies and then say ,"Sere, I knew they couldn't make it". Phonies like Cutie, sauga Complicated abd Cebeuq I don't bother to read any more. they are a circle-jerk support group, each trying to come up with the bikggest spout of words against the one party that can save our necks. My God the francos in the backwoods are smarter than that. Ed

    10. @ed

      "Cutie, sauga Complicated abd Cebeuq I don't bother to read any more. they are a circle-jerk support group, (...) My God the francos in the backwoods are smarter than that."

      totally agree ed. sometimes you have lucidity breaks. make the most of them mate.

    11. S.R., student. Can you answer Troy's question first?

      But I am not surprised, we know too well those Frenchies. We can not expect them to stand up and answer the question like a gentleman. And you know why a Quebecois can never touch a Nobel Prize.

    12. Alright Ed - tell us exactly how they are going to "save our necks"? I'm sure we would all be interested in hearing that.

    13. "It's the fault of the anglos that no francophone Canadians have ever won a Nobel Prize"

      Après la Conquête, toute l'élite française et canadienne a été chassée et est retournée en France. Ce qui représentait 4000 personnes sur une population de 70 000. Une population qui pendant 200 ans a été reléguée à l'agriculture et aux autres petits métiers. Une population qui a aussi été coupée de la France et de sa puissance culturelle et économique.

      Alors que les Anglais, après la Conquête, ont commencé par prendre la place de l'élite de langue française, ensuite ils se sont approprié les richesses du Québec, et par la suite ont profité de leur appartenance à l'empire anglo-américain.

    14. @Y.L.

      Please tell us what wealth did the English take away from Quebec and how did the English force the french into farming and small trade?

    15. Troy asks : "Why is it that no French-Canadian ever won the Nobel Prize?"

      I guess that it is because Québec society has historicaly been less educated and because our society modernized relatively late in its history. Those who studied (it is only my guess) tended to study disciplines such as law, "notariat" and medecine and they became our "petite bourgeoisie". Those who studied medecine became family doctors and were not into scientific reasearch.

      Tell me more about what you found on canadian Nobel prizes. Those 22 prizes were from which universities? Many from McGill I guess.

    16. M. Patrice,

      Thank you for the answer. However, that makes me wonder further.

      I guess that it is because Québec society has historicaly been less educated and because our society modernized relatively late in its history.

      Out of 22 Canadian individual Laureates, 15 of them won the Prize after 1980. I would think that by 1980 the historical burden that French-Canadians* may have had have been alleviated. After all, it is already 2 decades since the socio-political revolution and by that time French-Canadians have firmly asserted themselves in Canadian social, economical, cultural and political landscape. Moreover, the most productive decade is the 1990s when 7 Canadian individuals won the Prize.

      Now, is it not an awfully long time to break away from "the ghost of the past" if you will? And I am not saying this with malicious intent, but with students (mostly francophone) demanding lower cost for education on the expense of rating of university education and research, can it be said that mentally for them the pursue of excellence is not high of a priority?

      As of Nobel Prize, you can check it on Wikipedia where the Laureates are classified by country and by university affiliation. As for McGill, you are right, it is the biggest producer in the country with 12, followed by UofT with 10 and UBC with7. It is worth noted though that countries of origin and universities may not necessarily be related.

    17. "Now, is it not an awfully long time to break away from "the ghost of the past" if you will?"

      I don't have a whole sociological survey, but I might just look at my own family. On my mother side, I have 1 sister and 13 cousins (with me, 15 children). Ten out of the fifteen of us have university degrees, none of our parents had university degree when we graduated. (Both my father and my mother graduated after my sister and I did.) That past is not too distant I guess.

      We all studied in what I would call "applied sciences" (acounting, engineering, teaching, and so on, job oriented education). None of us went into research (PhDs etc). I guess that, in my family, if one of us would study for decades pursuing a PhD or something, we would wonder when he will ever get out of school and begin to really work... Maybe this is a part of the answer. In university, I guess that we were not pursuing excellence and Nobel prizes, we were eager to graduate and get to work.

  24. Quebec Radical Students assc. reaches to anglo.É+reaches+anglophones/9248144/story.html

    "ASSÉ, which has more than 70,000 members, is currently focused on an anti-austerity campaign opposing cuts and cost-saving measures imposed by the Parti Québécois government in the education sector."

    Nadeau-Dupois abandoned his former allies? Haha. Now, that you no longer need the PQ, being bilingual isn't so bad.

    1. what are you on liam? nadeau-dubois didn't abandon anyone, and being bilingual has never been "so bad" for him, nor for asse. might well be your worst analysis ever.

    2. @Liam

      I doubt it will work, Anglos and Allos can afford to pay for their Education, they don't need to Srike.

  25. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTThursday, December 5, 2013 at 6:59:00 AM EST

    quebec, circa 2020:


    1. Great article...coming to Canada as well...

      Governments all across the country have been on a spending and hiring spree, and adding more debt… since the 1960’s…a real mess in the making. Lets not just blame the lieberals who started most of this mess…they are all the same folks, all parties…a few differences but not many.

      "We don’t want the party to end, the “free” trips, expense accounts…perks, gold plated pensions, free this, free that…Yes indeed, see we in government, are all entitled to our entitlements folks and we can’t stop that, at least not until we retire. Our unions say so, it’s ours and we want it now...$$” Nice eh? See what working for government has become? Go look at all the debt mounting. Governments all across Canada, the US… have been on a hiring binge, a spending spree for decades now. Government = police, fire, hospitals, teachers, lawyers…= high salaries, bonuses, pensions, perks… all out of control for decades now = More and more debt…making the connection yet?

      Decades of overspending…more and more debt, see what these people are doing to future generations?

      The real Fiscal cliff 101 –

      US - $ over 17 trillion in debt

      Ontario debt as of today - $280 billion, 968 million and climbing daily...what a mess.

      The province of Quebec – 260 billion in debt and climbing daily …a real, real big mess…on top of the racist, bigoted language laws…bills 101…

      Ottawa - Canada debt as of today - $611 billion, 666 million and climbing daily...what a

      Record personal debt in Canada and the US…something has to give.

      Record low interest rates…for now…?

      When and how does it end? Greece, Ireland, Californian, Wisconsin, Detroit, Kebec…all technically bankrupt…a real mess in the making and no one in government or the mainstream media (CBC, CTV…) is dealing with it. Nice eh?

      This is what all politicians in the country are ignoring. Pathetic, all of them.

  26. Interesting development on the Champlain Bridge replacement.

    While the Federal Government moves the schedule for the bridge to be completed earlier, they do so by appointing the professionals themselves. Therefore, there is no "architectural masterpiece" BS anymore. I like it. They really put their foot down and tell the Provincial Government who is in charge. The other thing that I like is their statement that "no toll no bridge". I guess with the majority-without-Quebec that they are enjoying now, the Conservative government care a little about their political stock in the province.

    Interesting reaction from the separatist government. Minister Lisee now pleads his government's case to the Feds. Note what he said:

    "Hope springs eternal. We're keeping at it. The mayor [of Montreal] is keeping at it, the mayors of the are keeping at it. The business associations and certainly the car drivers so, there have been times when we could get through to the federal government and we hope this one will be one of them."

    So where is the tone of Pauline Marois and the PQ during the campaign? Did Marois said that they would stage a series of quarrels with the Feds? This is the quarrel? Hah! More like whimper to me.

    Also interesting are the comments from the two levels of Ministers of Transport:

    Provincial transportation minister Sylvain Gaudreault said Tuesday that it should not be up to Ottawa to make a decision on the toll, at which point federal transportation minister Denis Lebel pointed out that the Champlain Bridge is owned operated by the federal government, so Ottawa has the final say on the matter.

    There you go, the battle of Quebec City vs Ottawa. The one part is full of barks and the other part simply bites.

    1. It is good news to see they cancelled the bridge design competition idea. That would just waste an enormous amount of money and time. Imagine the bridge design that a bunch of politicians would vote to put up. Would be unlikely to withstand the first snowfall of the season before it collapses.

      Really what we need now is the Federal Govt to OPEN bidding for construction.

      Show FTQ, Quebec unions etc that their time to destroy the province with impunity is in jeopardy.

      Would be awesome to see 500 workers from Ontario etc come in to build the bridge.

      The local mafia/union scammers wouldn;t know where to start to intimidate and harass first.

      We can only dream however. The Quebec construction unions and the PQ are evil twins feeding off the back of the rest of the population.

      The PQ will protect the criminal FTQ union member to the end of time. Mostly because it's a revolving door between journalists, FTQ and the PQ.

      Lets not forget that Paulines husband was one of the major supporters of Tony Accurso schemes while he was at FTQ. To say nothing of the conflict of interest of his wife setting his salary.

      Paulines husband promoted the FTQ union doing business with somebody that ends up with 1000! criminal charges.

      Talk about hiding your head in the ground and pretending you see nothing while getting cash on the back end and a house in the West Island built.

      Epic quebec frauds.

    2. Those that pay the piper call the tune. About time the feds started calling the tune.

  27. 'Epic quebec frauds.' yep and it will not will only get worse...

    1. Another scam continuing.

      The double the salary of the position for him. Some do nothing environmental post for almost 200K per year plus expenses to fly around.

      Can't we sue the govt for this kind of patronage payoff when we are bankrupt?

      That's like finding a lawyer to sue a lawyer. Doesn;t happen, ever. They circle the wagons and protect their own. There are some kinds of justice that even money can;t buy.

      Is it any surprise that politicians are usually lawyers.

      Imagine how much differently the world would function is lawyers were banned form public office. Keep them as the secretaries to write the paperwork, not the architects of their own professions future earnings.

  28. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTThursday, December 5, 2013 at 7:53:00 PM EST

    FACT OF THE DAY: Rob Ford does a better job of running Toronto stoned & drunk than Pauline Marois can run quebekistan sober.

  29. You have to love the irony...

    Sadly, a model human being, Nelson Mandela has passed away today.

    Nelson Mandela fought racism tooth and nail, without falling into it's trap himself. He is credited with putting an end to the racist apartheid... fitting that the filthy mutt championing apartheid in Quebec should "pay homage" to the man:

    Mandela was incarcerated by racist whites, yet once he was released, he never turned on the white man, he worked to find a way for black and whites to live together without division.

    Yet look at the seps. They're not the ones who were persecuted - their ancestors were...250 years ago, yet they carry themselves like if they were the ones that went through the conflict between the British and the French and take it out on modern day Anglos AND immigrants.

    1. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTThursday, December 5, 2013 at 8:20:00 PM EST

      The man was a convicted criminal.

    2. Honestly, you really are fucked up man.

      But then again, you've clearly demonstrated to us just how anti-black you are, so I can't say I 'm surprised.

    3. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTThursday, December 5, 2013 at 8:45:00 PM EST

      @AC... Poor brainwashed little human being.
      So just for you:"For the past three decades, Nelson Mandela has been swathed in global media adulation unlike any other human being in history. No pope, president, king, war hero, movie star, or rock star can boast of having been the beneficiary of such undiluted, unalloyed, and unbroken acclaim.
      What is it about Nelson Mandela the man that justifies this global adoration?
      He was a leader of the African National Congress (ANC), an organization designated a terrorist group by the U.S. State Department. He was also a co-founder of the ANC’s Umkhonto we Sizwe (Spear of the Nation), a militant terrorist group within a terrorist group. He was tried and convicted for his terrorist and subversive activities within those organizations.
      How many of those praising Mandela as the world’s moral compass have ever heard of Ignatius Cardinal Kung, the Roman Catholic Bishop of Shanghai, who was imprisoned in Communist China for 33 years, most of it overlapping the same period in which Mandela was in prison?
      Your hero was a huge part of the South African Communist Party (SACP). The SACP took its direction from the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU), and, as such, was an agent of a hostile foreign power.
      Mandela’s longtime comrade in the ANC and the SACP (and current president of South Africa) Jacob Zuma, used to sign “Kill the Boer,” meaning kill the white farmer.
      Winnie Mandela - his ex-wife and a convicted murderer - is free as a bird and still sits on the ANC’s Executive Committee. If Nelson Mandela and Jacob Zuma had any “moral authority,” it has not evidenced itself in the form of condemning and removing this murderess from the ANC’s highest body.
      Mandela’s Rivonia documents declared that “traitors and informers should be ruthlessly eliminated,” and he recommended “cutting off their noses” — among other barbarities — a tactic he had adopted from Algeria’s communist FLN terrorists.


      Enjoy your MSM agenda driven life.

  30. FROM ED
    I'm proofreading my grandson's paper on Macroeconomics. I would like to re read the sectiom you wrote on the subject, would you steer me to it please.? Ed