"The Quebec Human Rights Commission is warning the Marois government that several elements in its proposed Charter of Quebec Values would not stand up in court.
The Commission is especially concerned about the ban on the wearing of religious symbols by civil servants. It says the ban contravenes both the letter and the spirit of Quebec's Charter of Human Rights and would deprive some Quebecers of their right to equal access to employment.
The Commission says the Marois government is misinterpreting the notion of neutrality of the state, which applies to institutions but not employees, beyond a general duty to be impartial in dealing with the public.
The Commission also warns that it would be difficult to apply the notwithstanding clause to the Charter of Values because the proposed wording does not meet strict conditions governing substance and form." CJAD
Here is the statement published by the commission.
"On September 10, 2013, the Minister responsible for Democratic Institutions and Active Citizenship released the government policy paper regarding secularism and guidelines for requests for religious accommodation, entitled Parce que nos valeurs, on y croit.
For interesting points, go to the commission's website and read the powerful rebuke to the Charter offered by the Human Rights Commission;The Commission des droits de la personne et des droits de la jeunesse believes that the government’s policy paper – Parce que nos valeurs on y croit – jeopardizes fundamental rights and freedoms
Montréal, October 17, 2013 – The Commission des droits de la personne et des droits de la jeunesse believes that several proposals in the government’s policy paper Orientations gouvernementales en matière d’encadrement des demandes d’accommodement religieux, d’affirmation des valeurs de la société québécoise ainsi que du caractère laïque des institutions de l’État, contravene Québec’s Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms and infringe fundamental rights and freedoms.
In particular, the Commission considers that prohibiting the wearing of “conspicuous” religious symbols by public sector employees does not meet the Québec Charter test and that the proposal to formalize “religious” accommodations could restrict the scope of accommodations granted on the basis of other grounds of discrimination, including for disabled people.
In its comments released today, the Commission concludes that the government’s proposals are contrary to the spirit and the letter of the Charter, which is designed to protect the rights of everyone.
“The government’s proposals are cause for serious concern. They represent a clear break with the text of the Charter, a quasi-constitutional law adopted by the National Assembly in 1975. It is the most radical proposal modifying the Charter since its adoption,” said the President of the Commission, Jacques Frémont.
Thus, if the proposal to ban public service employees from wearing “conspicuous” religious symbols was adopted, it would clearly be in violation of the Charter and would not withstand a court challenge in the current state of jurisprudence. Such prohibition could not be valid without resorting to the notwithstanding clause, which cannot be done without meeting strict conditions as to substance and form.
The right to display one’s religious beliefs is protected by the Charter, which guarantees freedom of religion and freedom of conscience. Banning religious symbols would exclude people from a large number of jobs based on the wearing of a religious symbol and inferred perceptions of that symbol, thus infringing their rights to freedom of expression and to equal access to employment.
The proposed prohibition of religious symbols stems from a misconception regarding freedom of religion as protected by the Charter and in international law. It also misinterprets the duty of state neutrality. In fact this obligation applies to the state institutions, but not to its employees or representatives, other than their duty of reserve and impartiality.
“It is unreasonable to presume the partiality of a public sector employee due to the simple fact that he or she wears a religious symbol,” the Commission explains. By linking the wearing of “conspicuous” religious symbols to the definition of proselytizing (to attempt to convince someone to adhere to his or her religion), without taking into account the person’s conduct, distorts the legal approach developed in regard to the protection of freedom of religion and opens the door to a restriction that would be contrary to the Québec Charter.
Equality between women and men
Moreover, the Commission questions the objective set out in the government’s policy paper to change the guidelines that presently govern the duty to accommodate by defining the concept of undue hardship. One of the proposals would be aimed at “reinforcing equality between women and men” and would make it the first condition for approving a reasonable accommodation request.
The Québec Charter already provides protection against gender discrimination and guarantees the right to equality between women and men, and has done so since 1975. Moreover, the interpretative provision of Section 50.1 added to the Charter in 2008, reiterates that rights are equally guaranteed to women and men.
The Commission also underlines that there already exists guidelines governing the duty to accommodate and that an accommodation that would infringe the right to equality, including equality between women and men, must not be granted.
In its comments, the Commission explains that the government’s proposal to assess accommodation requests on the basis of “shared values” and “core community values” is problematic as those concepts are too vague. Moreover, the government’s wish to formalize the duty to accommodate only when it involves religion also presents several legal and practical challenges. These elements are likely to have significant adverse effects on the concrete exercise of rights and freedoms, in particular, of disabled persons, pregnant women and the elderly.
Commentary on the government policy paper regarding secularism and reasonable accommodations
Read a Montreal Gazette story
Here are the first few comments under the story about the Commission's rebuke in Le Journal de Montreal. Quite interesting. Link{fr}
Here is a translation of the above.
It seems to me that before proposing legislation, the minister should first check to see if it contravenes charters already in existence. Not to bright, Drainville
FROM ED
ReplyDeleteI'm pondering how strikes could affect all this. With Quebec unions it would be hard to get them to strike against the government they worship unless an aweful lot of members were affected. A better thought might be associations. Doctors Assocition, nurses etc. If they just tell their members that as of a cetain date go home and sit their it would paralyze so much of the province. halk staffed nursing homes would have to close with the government being forced to find care for the elderly. Operating rooms andd clinics would close.
How effective it would be depends on whether members who are not affected by the law would walk out with their compatriots.
The association of grocery store clerks would paralyze the super markets forcing them to close.. The list is endless.
Does this sound plausible. Think Ghandi. Ed
FROM ED
DeleteSorry, I meant go home and sit THERE. We, especially professionals, are not a people who march in the streets, unless we are an ersatz university professor. Anyway, one right the govrenment cannot do anythuing about is the right to stay home from work. The key would be get the word out to the associations and people in general. Let's paralyze the government. I have sent a letter to the Montreal Gazette suggseting this. I wonder if pundits Don McPherson would agree. Ed
I recall strikes being ended with "back to work" legislation. I think it was the stm employees last time it happened. I'd presume they'd use it again if public unions went on strike, though if people threatened to quit in large numbers that would be frighting, especially doctors.
DeleteFROM ED
Deleteright now in Quebec we are under Oligarchy, (ruling by a handful of people) We don't want to become an anarchy (basically rule by the masses) even though it would be better than what we have. The French people were under the rule of Theocracy (ruling by the Church) We want democracy and civil disobedience is called for to achieve it.
Peaceful opposition has worked in India (think Ghandi) and the United states for the blacks. Also in England which brought about the Magna Charta.
If we want rights and freedom we have to stand up for them Noone is being asked to quit and there is noo reason why they should. Back to work legislatio can be ignored. Paralyzing certain sectors would wake up the French voters. Probably the best way to reach the drones in the outback areas that the English are a fact to be dealt with.
Ed.
@ed
Delete"If we want rights and freedom we have to stand up for them..."
what rights and freedom? which ones exactly do you want to stand up for ed?
Individual rights and freedoms. Go away student your feigning ignorance is boring.
DeleteMerci P.E.T...errr
ReplyDeleteAlright, I know today's topic is the Charter, but I absolutely had to address Quebec's other taboo subject; the religion of union corruption.
ReplyDeleteS.R, student, take heed: http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2013/10/18/le-fonds-de-la-ftq-ne-lache-rien
What this means is that the cycle is about to be complete.
Your ultra-corrupt separatist public unions will finally be taken to task for their culture of mafia-like behavior.
THIS is where your separatist dream finally breathes its dying breath - with the very segment of Quebec society that gave it the most support.
You guys are so fucking toasted!
you try hard to make it seem like separatists are ftq and ftq are separatists. but unions and quebec's political independance are two different deals mate. your equation doesn't fly.
DeleteActually, "mate", a few of your union separatist friends just wrote a book in which they revealed that they were involved in unethical/illegal relations with the PQ...or did you conveninetly ignore that?
DeleteFace it - separatists are crosseurs.
there is no link between the story you refer to and your conclusion.
Deletethat's an absurd generalization you do in order to provoke an angry reaction. typical internet troll behavior. you've been ferreted out.
"there is no link between the story you refer to and your conclusion."
DeleteActually, there is a literal link to it, and here it is:
http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2013/09/21/jocelyn-dupuis-et-richard-goyette-les-anciens-dirigeants-de-la-ftq-construction-reglent-leurs-comptes-avec-ceux-qui-ont-mis-fin-a-leur-carriere-syndicale
http://ftq.qc.ca/pages/175/Un-peu-d-histoire---?langue=fr&menu=13&sousmenu=20
http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/politique/politique-quebecoise/201003/16/01-4261298-lex-dirigeant-de-la-ftq-jocelyn-dupuis-contribuait-a-la-caisse-du-pq.php
Separatists are corrupt to the bone, and you have your proof right there.
You guys don't really want to separate because you want to protect your culture...oh non non!
You want to protect your lazy lifestyle and your ability to rip-off the hard-working and honest tax payer.
You want to get money for nothing, eat free hotdogs and play the French version of Grand Theft Auto all day long and have someone carry you through life.
Busted!
what you're proving here is that some ftq bosses are crooks. you still can't conlude that "separatists are corrupt to the bone" from this. that is if you are an honest chap. are you?
DeleteMore honest than a separatist. :-)
Delete...and don't forget it wasn't us (the non-racist federalists) who tried to cheat in the last referendum by spoiling the ballots cast by your team.
So you see student? Separatists aren't just crooked to the bone, they're also ALL unethical bigots too.
Maître chez nous.
ReplyDelete"Maître chez nous."
DeleteHere's another meaningless phrase you can add to that one: "un quebec pour tous" LOL
Whata-ya-know...2 punch lines for the price of one ..lol
"un quebec pour tous" ...Sauf les canayens
Delete@S.R
ReplyDeleteC'est tout? That's all you have?
Things to keep in mind:
1. "Chez nous" applies to anyone contributing to Quebec society. With that being said, you'll have to accept that the province of Quebec must make concessions in order to survive. This point is non-debatable. Proof is in the fact that Parizeau, Landry, Boisclair, Aussant and other high-rankers have mastered English and recognize it's essential importance. Then there's the fact that Quebec continues to let immigrants in - they wouldn't do so if there were no need.
2. Your precious charter just got cut down by your "own people." One day S.R, you'll understand that this was the right move. Can't be letting the trailer park rule the castle now can we?
3. The most powerful proponent to the sovereignist support base - the public unions - are about to be proven to be 10X more corrupt than the Liberals you so love to chastise.
So go ahead and say it over and over again: Maître chez nous.
Here's the new question to answer...how much longer will it be "chez nous?"
FROM ED
ReplyDeleteSylvaine, this is an exremely important subjest. Editor has put a lot into it. Pleasea don't turn itinto a rally with the troll. Ed
What Ed says, Syl...and this is the first time in a long time Ed and I are in sync.
DeleteAgreed. Separatist Radical, Unemployed Student, and Maoist Murderer are all paid to post on this blog. I see Maoist posting comment at 12 h 00, after the editor has posted a new post because he can't debate.
DeleteYou know Liam, I think it's rather impressive that the seppies would pay someone real money to try and sabotage a blog. And this blog in particular. Just think about what that implies. They feel so small, so insignificant, irrelevant and insecure that this blog could hurt them and everything they stand for.. They need to police it and pay for the service. LOL. Were they to come and actually present a real point of view or an interesting perspective to things they might stand a fighting chance, but they don't because they don't have any, their utter irrational FEAR drives them. It is absolutely funny.
DeleteLastly, the most gratifying thing for some of us is the visual of them feeling tortured by what we do here and by The Truth we reveal here. That ....is it's own reward, whether we change things or not, one little blog post at a time!
And Thank you Editor.
@liam
Deleteand here's another bit, a real one to contrast your crazy talk: anectote, sylvain raciste and ed are paid to post here. why elese would one spend time online building an incoherent whacky character? they obviously do it for the money.
Again, you think like that cause that's is how you're wired pinstripes and btw Hell keeps calling.
DeleteNobody needs to pay me or the others you've mentioned. I hang out here because we try to get at the Truth and the intention of those who do come and post, except for trolls like you, is because they want to be a part of that Truth seeking in Quebec's political landscape. Go ponder that for a lil while.
Personally, I wouldn't ever hang out on a blog that crushes and berates me constantly, UNLESS I were paid. No one is that dumb or that masochistic. But maybe you are pinstripes. LOL
After 36 years, history is repeating itself. Bill 1/101 was written, debated and passed with the full knowledge parts of it would be challenged constitutionally, and with each passing defeat, the separatists would go through the act of going ape-shit knowing full well this was going to happen. Despite their well-staged embellishments, it didn't work then, and their bluffs will be called now.
ReplyDeleteGosh-darn shucks!
FROM ED
ReplyDeleteMr.Sauga, My building is shaking. Children are wailing in the streets. They think it's the end of the world because you and I are in agreement.
Jews and Islams are very dedicated to their religion. If it came to a choice religion or job I know most would walk away without having to be told. I'm hoping my fellow christians would have the gnockers to walk out in support.
I hope I haven't upset you too much by being in agreement, I assure you it was quite by accident. Ah well, in the words of Sidney Carton, "It is a far, far better thing I do." Ed
Ed, Two things:
Delete1) I don't anticipate your fellow Christians to walk for anything because they're not the target of this blatantly naziesque charter;
2) Sarcasm does not become you.
Enjoy your Sabbath day.
Every pure laine who has never left quebekistan is totally brainwashed by the separatists quebec education system, from kindergarten up to the universities. We all know this. They all support separation has all they've heard all their lives is that (unknown to them) they have been lied to. Every single of these pure laine who leave quebec always come back with the feeling that something is wrong with what they were told all their lives. How many quebec celebrities still live in quebec? Celine Dion, Patrick Roy, Ray Bourque, etc etc etc. All gone. They know better than to stay in quebec.
ReplyDeleteDan Aykroyd,Jim Carrey,Michael J. Fox,Martin Short,etc,etc, et etc.
DeleteExcept, Dan, Jim and Michael J. didn't have to learn English to make it, lil' celine and all the others did. That's the difference.
DeleteFROM ED
ReplyDeleteThese names the troll put up are all born in other parts of canada mostly Ontario. He eis doing this to make people waste time that they were not Quebecers. It shows clearly he is here just to waste our time on such an important subject. He does not want us speaking the truth about his party. If you answera troll you are helping them to work against us. It comes down to 'are you with us or against us.
Une Gars, you have hit the nail on the head. No one could have made the problem more clear than you have. I believe what we are facing is how to get the truth to these people because most of them don't want to hear it. They are happy with the status quo. Thanks for your clarity. Ed
@ed
Delete"They are happy with the status quo."
ed how can you blame "pure laines" for being happy with status quo, turn around, and vote for the liberals?!?
and how can you consider quebec's independance to be akin to "status quo"?!?!?
Ed: People hear what they want to hear, and they were lied to and duped by their own church long before the politicians came along.
DeleteUn gars: You forgot the unrelated Claude Lemieux (Arizona) and Mario Lemieux (Pittsburgh).
On an unrelated note, there is a Senator Lemieux from Florida. I wonder if he's related, albeit distantly, to one of the above...
This is the kind of shit that is going on in this stinking province and it looks like this asshole will get away with it:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.lapresse.ca/le-droit/actualites/sante/201310/18/01-4701300-une-facon-horrible-de-traiter-un-malade.php?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Unfortunately, Hull Hospital is borderline ridiculous. This is the hospital where security guards had to be paid to make sure nurses washed their hands. Quebec healthcare system is disgraceful. My uncles daughter had to go to ER and waited 20 hours for care. Soon, we won't be counting hours but days. What does Minister Hebert do? Well nothing of course because the solution are too difficult for the minister. What more will it take for "le gouvernment raciste de Pauline Marois"? And we need to fight for an ambulance! It's time for partition. If the Government de la Belle Province won't fix the solution, then we need the tools to fix it ourselves.
DeleteFROM ED
DeleteCutie, what's more shocking is that being in Gatineau that Hospital was probably built by English with English money. Ed
God, bring on partition of this stinking province. They are literally killing all goodwill and peace between Francophones, Allophones and the English. I'm with you all the way Liam. It's called the Canadian Healthcare plan not just Quebec's health care plan and is subsidized by the ROC. And they don't mind sending me pledge sheets when they want money, in English by the way. Hypocrites!
DeleteFROM ED
ReplyDeleteSYLVAINE, Out of 25 comments today, 15 are taken up by you and the trolls. The fact that you ignore the rest of our feelings and insist on doing this is a slap in the face. This is not exclusiively your blog, it belongs to all of us, so stop giving it to the trolls. You have been asked by Liam, Cutie, Thatguy, Durham, Mr.Sauga and myself amongst others to stop. If you want to play with a spoiled brat mentality go get your own fucking blog. Edf
@Sylvain
DeleteWhile I find that Ed does sometimes get paternal with the other commentors, I have to agree with him here.
Earlier you blew Student's argument out of the water by providing proof for your point.
But that doesn't stop these trolls from contesting you. They're here looking to argue and nothing more. They'll contest you if you tell them the Earth is round, that Denzel Washington is black and that Japan is an island in the Pacific Ocean.
That's why I don't waste time with them.
There's no reason why we should be trying to prove anything to them - in their own little minds, they're right, no matter what.
@anonymous coward
Delete"They'll contest you if you tell them the Earth is round, that Denzel Washington is black and that Japan is an island in the Pacific Ocean."
of course they will, as the earth is not round but kinda spherical, denzel washington is not black but brown and japan is not an island but an archipelago. it is also not "in" the pacific ocean but adjacent to it.
@Sylvain - see what I mean? Ed's right. Anyone who would take the time to write the retort above clearly isn't a worthy opponent and isn't your energy.
DeleteI understand your point, but I don't appreciate taking shit from senile curmudgeons who actually spend time counting comments - or being told to "go start my own blog."
DeleteEr I never told Sylvain not to say whatever he wanted to say. That said when student devolves to rebuttals that are based on ignorance, such as not knowing that spheres are round, or that black is an ethnicity recognized by the census, it's best to just ignore him. If he's willing to put up a well thought out argument, that's different, but when the arguments start sounding like they were written by 7 year olds, the conversation tends to be very unproductive.
DeleteFROM ED
DeleteThatguy, sorry about that. My apologies, I thought I remembered you speaking out about the trolls.
If I sound overbearing it's because i am very serious about saving our homes and the chance is coming up for us to do that. An election gets rid of bill 14, the charter and the Party Quebecois.The rebuuilding of this province will be a joy for all of us as tensions ease and investment begins .But first, we have to win it and that takes some serious thought and communication. We can't play kids games with the tools we need and this blog is a very important one of them. It's annoying when you try to add to a person.s post and find that all the reply spots have all been taken up with the trolls. I make no apology for anything I've said to Sylvaine as he still thinks he was right . At least in my senility I know enough not to help the enemy. When I see that it adds to my curmugeonization. Ed
Ed, while getting rid of the PQ for one election is a positive step towards rebuilding Quebec, too much damage has been done with those racist shmucks having been in office for just over a year. Over 50,000 jobs have been lost, and now the PQ is promising 40,000 jobs over how many years? That's still a net loss of 10,000 jobs after 50,000 disappeared in 13 months, and counting. With this new free trade deal with the EEC, maybe the cheese artisans will be able to make and export enough product to recover the lost jobs [LOL!] In all fairness, I do wish them well as artisan cheese is a product that has evolved over the last decade in Quebec, and they should compete well with the best. Too bad the rest of Quebec can't say the same.
DeleteFROM ED
ReplyDeleteright now in Quebec we are under Oligarchy, (ruling by a handful of people) We don't want to become an anarchy (basically rule by the masses) even though it would be better than what we have. The French people were under the rule of Theocracy (ruling by the Church which polarized them. French in the big cities learned English and moved ahead. Rene Levesque was Democratic but used the Theocracy of the Church to spread the lies that their living was in danger whch gave him the Democratic majority which Marois still enjoys today . We want rights and civil disobedience is called for to achieve it. There is nothing more to fear than speaking out on this blog as you are already doing. For now, sit back and think what you want to do when the time comes. Once the election is announced we go into full campaign mode. Letters to the newpapers, letters of support. to teachers and other associatins that go on strike. We can all play a part in the most significant thing happening in our lives. Ed.
Peaceful opposition has worked in India (think Ghandi) and the United states for the blacks. Also in England which brought about the Magna Charta.
If we want rights and freedom we have to stand up for them Noone is being asked to quit and there is noo reason why they should. Back to work legislatio can be ignored. Paralyzing certain sectors would wake up the French voters. Probably the best way to reach the drones in the outback areas that the English are a fact to be dealt with.
Ed.
Ed, the whole damn world is under an oligarchy. Since the American recession of 2008, the only ones who have recovered are the top 1% who have most of the money. The rich get richer, the rest of us don't. Look at the annual report of any public company, especially the banks. While those in the middle and the bottom, if lucky, get onezies and twozies (raise percentages), the top five dogs in the company, as must be legally disclosed in the documentation accompanying the annual report, more often than got get double digit raises and huge bonuses, often without corporate incomes to justify the increases.
DeleteIn the U.S., it now takes a campaign war chest upwards of $100 million (U.S., of course), to even THINK of running at the presidency. Unless you're an average shmuck with very, very good friends in high places, fuggedaboudit! If you want some kind of egalitarian government (i.e., communism), fuggedaboudit! Who gets the best? The government elite, of course. Ed, unless you get rich, or marry into it, or inherit it, YOU...ARE...THE 99%!
Well written and totally accurate account of the Quebec Charter of Values:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.montrealgazette.com/opinion/Celine+Cooper+Make+believe+crisis+national+identity+potential+genuine/9053955/story.html
Trouble causing pricks - pushing us to the wall with their damn Bill 14 and the charter.
[IMPORTANT]:
ReplyDeleteHey everyone, I just got my hands on a very intriguing document I believe you'll find worth the read (it's over 60 pages long).
It's title:
"Discrimination in the Name of Neutrality
Headscarf Bans for Teachers and Civil Servants in Germany"
https://www.law.georgetown.edu/rossrights/chapters/documents/headscarvesgermany.pdf
i don't have time to read it all. what are the main conclusions?
Delete....there's an executive summery that is only 3 pages double spaced.
DeleteFINALLY the feds are doing something besides sitting on their asses and watching the world go by:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cjad.com/CJADLocalNews/entry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10603963&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook
While I of course support this measure, one has to wonder why they did this now and not after December.
DeleteDid you want him to wait until after another provincial election?
DeleteAnd put here especially for complicated:
Deletehttp://www.montrealgazette.com/touch/news/montreal/Internal+squabbling+made+Quebec+economic+basket+case/9057467/story.html?rel=813072
Ils sont fous ces fédérastes!
DeleteMdr = Lol
FROM ED
DeleteFortunately, S.R. left me a reply link between the two he used up for his stupid comments. Legault is such a genius he says that separation is still economically possible. What does he mean by still, it never was. This is the math genius complicated thinks could get Quebec out of debt. I have a feeling his party will be wiped out in an election. People want to be on one side or the other and he is playing both ends against the middle. Who's going to bvote for that?
France : encore le couteau de l’islam : Elyes Aboubakeur a tenté de décapiter son épouse en pleine rue (devant leurs enfants)
ReplyDeletehttp://www.blog.sami-aldeeb.com/2013/09/29/france-encore-le-couteau-de-lislam-elyes-aboubakeur-a-tente-de-decapiter-son-epouse-en-pleine-rue-devant-leurs-enfants/
Héhé!
Was that meant to be funny?
Deletesr, are you trying to prove a point, or you just doing the press roundup?
DeleteI wonder if I will still get paid if I take a couple of days off this blog? Never a dull moment since the damn PQ came into power:
ReplyDeletehttp://www2.macleans.ca/2013/10/18/exclusive-stephen-harpers-legal-challenge-to-quebec-secession/
Stephen Harper is a Genius
DeleteWhether or not you like our Prime Minister, you must admit that he is the most clever politician we have seen in recent times - at least in my lifetime.
Harper has been slowly dismantling the Quebec separatist movement since 2006. When he first proposed the motion to declare the Quebecois a Nation, he put the Bloc Quebecois against the wall. They could only vote in favour of this motion. More recently he decided to cut the tax credit to labour-sponsored funds, of which 88% of the funds go to Quebec. With all the recent scandals with the Fonds FTQ, how could anyone say this was not a justified move? He also reformed employment insurance to strongly encourage chronically unemployed workers move to find work. Would it hurt to see a few thousand separatist EI junkies move to Alberta?
So why would this out-of-the-blue attack against Quebec separatists come now? Based on prior experience, I would guess it is a trap being set for the PQ. Below is my theory:
An election call in Quebec is a very likely scenario. Quebec will be in a recession by March and our deficit will likely be at least $2-Billion whereas we were promised a balanced budget. Pauline Marois has a choice to make: gamble now and try to win at least another minority; or wait until March when the budget is tabled and face the consequences. So far it looks like she is going for the former with the central theme being this famous Charter of Values. She was planning on getting Quebecers all worked up on the huge threat from the outsiders and play herself as the hero defending Quebec culture. However there is a monkey wrench being thrown into the system from out of nowhere that will change the debate. With this recent coming out a whole new one will take centre-stage, that being the debate about whether 50% + 1 yes vote is sufficient for Quebec to separate from Canada (in my opinion it is not). This is such a useless debate right now because separation is on no one's agenda. However it can be very emotional subject and take up a lot of time and drag all sorts of people into the quicksand. Pauline will now have to be the defender of Quebec's hypothetical right to separate with 50% +1 support. She has a choice: spend the next month on the campaign trail arguing that Quebec can separate with such a small minority (and talk about absolutely nothing else); or wait it out until March and hope things get better. Either way she is Fukt.
@mtl1973
Deleteyour theory is shit. it will be much easier for her to gather a majority against an attack from ottawa than on the charter of values. if both become the main electoral issues she's bound for the biggest majority you've ever seen. you'll be surprised to see there's a lot of people in quebec that support democracy.
it almost looks like harper is a separatist...
DeleteCutie003,
DeleteI love reading the header of the Quebec Attorney General's argument in the Superior Court:
CANADA
PROVINCE DE QUÉBEC
DISTRICT DE Montréal
Lest we, they forget...
Un grrros merci a Stephen pour sa contribution à notre mouvement.
DeleteHas anyone actually noticed Quebec voters have been locked into a distinct pattern for the past 43 years?
DeleteLiberals for TWO terms. PQ for TWO terms. Sound absurd? Let's review elections since 1970...
1970 = Liberals
1973 = Liberals
1976 = PQ
1981 = PQ
1985 = Liberals
1989 = Liberals
1994 = PQ
1998 = PQ
2003 = Liberals
2008 = Liberals
2012 = PQ
Of course there is a new anomaly we're seeing now. Twice, recently, Quebecers' have voted for a minority government when a so-called alternative comes along and promise radical change (i.e. ADQ, CAQ). Of course once the population realizes it was only empty promises for change, they go back to what's familiar....even if it is a known evil, it feels familiar! So the anomaly always corrects itself, the minority becomes a majority.
I see the CAQ facing oblivion next election, therefore leaving room open for a majority for one of the two main parties. Of course the pattern is TWO terms for each party, so likely that majority will go to the PQ (or at best, another minority for the PQ). Let's see if I'm right, come December.
Either way though, we've passed the point of no return for Quebec. Too much damage over too long a time. The corruption, racism, exclusion and economic damage are too deeply imbedded for things to ever turn around, at least in my lifetime and I'm still fairly young! The only way to fix Quebec would be radical change, as in an **immediate** foot on the brakes and full reversal in terms of all the crap that's been going in this province on since 1970. And even then, in that overly optimistic situation, it would take a good 50+ years before things could even heal. Make no mistake however, Quebec will NEVER, EVER return to its former glory days, the separatists have literally murdered the life out of this province. Sorry to say it for those doubters, but there's no future, no hope, time to move out and on...
"it almost looks like harper is a separatist..."
DeleteOh brother...did you just figure that out pinstripes? Harper IS a separatist you moron,
His priority is looking after what is in the best interest of Canada. Quebec , in the past few decades, has become a veritable Liability, a cross to bear really, and clearly, he feels Canada should no longer carry it. If it ever happens this province leaves confederation, it will not do so out of "self-determination", but from being kicked in the ass onto the street by the ROC, and he is slowly positioning and steering the country to do just that, OR, ...basically, make quebec an offer they can't refuse and flipping it the bird in the process.
Objectively speaking...if u think about it, he is perfectly wicked.
Well it looks to me like the PQ are going to get a majority. I think the whole charter has riled up enough francophones to support the PQ..plus Harpers bit by bit attacks on Quebec have also riled up a lot of francophones. So they will elect a more confrontational government..a la PQ.
DeleteWe all had a chance with the CAQ..they had a strong following among francophones in the last election..now its gone hence the PQ are going to take back many of the seats they lost to the Liberals. The Liberals are still not trusted by most francophones and rightly so.
So guess what..we will have 4 years of PQ under Marois..if that doesnt drive more anglophones out then i dont know what will.
The anglophones had a chance to vote in a party..the CAQ..who could have at least put the seperation/language issues on the back burner for the next 10 years. Now the CAQ has lost its support base and its too late..so all anglophones more or less deserve whats coming to them..good luck selling your house now..it will drop another 20-30 percent in short order.
The seppies just love to see people like you complicated - never stand up for what's right - run on emotion and short term feelings are all that matter to you. Whether the PQ get a majority next time around, this blackmailing, bullshitting separatist government, which thinks it's always going to get to call all the shots, has to GD well take responsibility for ruining this province and whether it's now or 5 years from now, it has to stop! They have convinced these crazy people that it's in their best financial interest to go it alone and maybe now the GD federal government will get the facts out there which they should have been doing all along!
DeleteAnd, by the way, how do you know what Harper will do to protect Canadian citizens that live here? Must be nice to have an inside source that the rest of us don't.
Delete"how do you know what Harper will do to protect Canadian citizens that live here"
DeleteJe ne sais pas mais je crois que le canada devrait défrayer vos frais de déménagement.
Have to agree with student on this one, Harper wading into this issue now can only help Pauline, it'll stoke the nationalist sentiment because if there is one thing for certain Quebecers have a persecution complex and anything seemingly done or said against them will be turned into a mountain, even if it is a molehill. I mean the whole thing is a non issue as pro separation sentiment isn't anywhere near 50%, and bill 99 is so unenforceable that the government didn't even bother with it until now. If separatists were truly interested in democracy they should probably stop saying "Quebec should be a country" and that "Quebecers want Quebec to be a country", based on already losing 2 referendums the people have spoken and they do not want that, so statements that reflect the democratic reality would be "I think Quebec should be a country" and "a minority of Quebecers want Quebec to be a country".
Delete73: Harper a genius? I won't go THAT far, but he is subtly sticking it to Quebec, and why not? I sent him a whole case study as to why Quebec should have its equalization payments revoked when equalization has to undergo review and revision sometime in calendar 2014; furthermore, Quebec didn't do Harper any favors at the ballot box, and he won without Quebec. He simply can't rely on Quebec for anything, so why should he support Quebec? He should give Quebec back what it puts into the federal coffers, and nothing more.
Deletecomplicated: I hope the PQ wins and wins large. In one year, they managed to chase 50,000 jobs out of Quebec, hopefully to Ontario; furthermore, and with any luck, the doctors and nurses we need drop Quebec for Ontario, at least some of them, and we'll be glad to pick them up from you.
Without Quebec, we'll save over $10 billion in equalization and other uber generous benefits given to Quebec by Trudeau, Mulroney and Chrétien; besides, Ontario will have 3/8ths of the voting power, so by depriving an economically hard-hit Ontario carrying over 50% more population than Quebec won't help. Unless Quebec and the Atlantic Provinces get together with the Western Provinces, what Ontario says goes.
Doctors and nurses: We here in Ontario welcome you with open arms. Come on over!
Cutie - You have a point. If I was living outside of Quebec then I would want Harper to turn the screws on Quebec..make life more and more difficult for them. On the other hand as someone living here with property it would mean taking a big hit but perhaps its worth it. Harper is doing the right thing but I see little effort from him to defend anglo rights within this province and I really dont see why he would. Personally I would not be surprised if his agenda is to provoke Quebec into seperating.
DeleteIts not 1995..the rest of Canada is royally sick and tired of Quebec and its whining so there will be no serious effort to keep Quebec in the country this time if there is a referendum.
My concern is that the fight would go on for decades..legal battles..international groups weighing in..extremist groups like the flq going after anglos..the pq under marois would do everything it can to make anglos life miserable here if they get a majority. I am more scared of Marois than any other PQ leader..she strikes me as completetly unreasonable and one of the least intelligent of the bunch which is a bad combination.
Ah complicated, popo is harmless, had she been a contender, and a serious one, she would have learnt English in order to literally manipulate her way though media and the world of public opinion on the international stage, like those who came before her. As it is she can't even defend herself properly without fumbling words and sentences, it is one embarrassing faux-pas after another, she allowed her rage and hate for the English language dictate her limitations. Tough cookies for her to be that ignorant.
DeleteThe so called minister for Anglophone Montreal is another story, however. You want to know who the real PQ puppet master is, just look in that direction. The lil snake is the brains behind the operation, he's the one dictating all this nonsense, and brainstorming how to get independence through the back door. The kind of despicable rat who will cause an accident but is never in one. Naturally, he is setting her up by making her do all the heavy lifting, and she doesn't even realize it. Maybe now she will, since we've just outed him. Lolololololololo
Do you think I like being in this predicament Complicated? Well I sure as hell don't but it can't keep on dragging out because the ROC is totally sick of the whole thing and will end up voting us out if it keeps on for much longer anyway. I'm sure Harper's been made well aware of this and this is probably why he made up his mind to step into the legal battle and get it to hell over with. We can't keep living under these threats and blackmail day after day, year after year. If it takes another referendum to end it all I guess we're all stuck with that and AGAIN let me make myself clear - I don't like any of this shit any more than you do. I can lose my shirt as well as you - most of us on here are in the same boat but dying by a thousand cuts is doing nothing but aggravating the whole GD mess. If the soft nationalists in quebec cannot see through these PQ by now, they never will and if they are law abiding citizens, which I have to presume most of us are, then they will abide by the decisions made by the supreme court. The Clarity Act was meant for the whole country, was pretty clear except for the percentage involved, but quebec is still a province of Canada and these are the laws of the country. I am sure most of them do not want civil war any more than we do but breaking the law is the first sign of anarchy. And I agree with AnceTOTE - the brains and the skullduggery is all due to Lisee, the little oil slick behind the scenes.
DeleteOut of topic, I personally think there is a good point about Stephen Harper. And I never voted for the Tory or its predecessors and I loathe Harper's politics.
ReplyDeleteTwo weeks ago I watched the Als game on TSN*. There he was, Stephen Harper watching the game at McGill on the Hill. Interestingly, he watched the game from the stands, not from the box. Recalling further, whenever Harper watches a hockey game, he always sits on the stands, never in the box. I think it is a good gesture, considering coverage on dignitaries or celebrities watching professional sports almost always show them in the box. After all, I think it is safe to say that Harper is more powerful than, say, Jerry Seinfeld.
*I still cheer for the Alouettes, Impact and Canadiens, wherever I am.
Limousine Liberals, unions strategists and foolish journalists keep up a constant negative media about Harper. Meanwhile he's the best politician we've had in years.
DeleteHis strategy with quebec is gold. He plays seppie logic.
Grind away at seppies quietly. Never give their causes major airplay.
Liberals always need to masturbate publicly for us all abotu how much they love Quebec before every decision even if not related to Quebec.
It's so good to see a Canadian politician publicly avoid discussing quebec 100% of the time from the approach of the Federal Liberals.
Meanwhile Harper does all these good things to hurt the growth of PQ mentality in Quebec.
This is a much better strategy to deal with Quebec. it's just because it's a silent strategy it's taken us this long to recognize what he's up to.
+1 Harper
Much better strategy then bottomless Liberal appeasement of Quebec.
I agree with you cebeuq, Harper is ingenious when it comes to Quebec. You had to know however the second he pulled that stay of execution in parliament as a minority government, in the form of a prorogued from a politician stand point, it was a thin g of beauty. The seppies have no clue what they are dealing with in terms of a PM for Canada, vis a vis Quebec, and they are wayyyyyyyy out of their league, primarily because Harper doesn't give as hit about them and doesn't need to, winning a majority mandate without them. I think he proudly dislikes Quebec because of how it damages Canada, and bring nothing to the table unless it could grab mor for itself, always. Seriously, who wants to put up with that and if the don't have to. So yes, he is quietly sticking it to them every chance he gets they get kicked left and right and almost can't even tell where the blows are coming from. He is weakening them slowly but surely while Mme Marois insists on playing theatre with this sham charter.
DeleteMy advise to her is that she makes a swift sharp right turn and start talking about the stuff that really matters to save her a&& or she will be propelled into oblivion with the economic tsunami fast approaching in this province. If this province wants to keep milking Ottawa, they better think about voting for Trudeau next election, cause Harper is cutting off the ATM and he's doing it incognito.
Well if you dont mind living in a province where house prices will drop another 20-30 percent in short oder..where more restrictive laws will be put in place against anglophones/allophones..and more mismanagement of affairs..then yes Harper is a flipping genius.
DeleteThe reality is that his handling of Quebec is going to cause more hardship for the remaining anglos here and he is certainy not going to come to our rescue. So perhaps if you live in the ROC or you dont own property in Quebec and if you can leave Quebec easily then Harpers policies are brilliant..otherwise he is going to make life a lot more difficult for the anglophones stuck here.
His antagonism is going to stir up enough anger in the francophone population that will elect a majorirt PQ government..the worst case scenario..just flippin brilliant. All you naysayers about how bad the CAQ are will find out how much worse a PQ majority under Marois will be. You all had a chance to elect a party that was going to ignore language issues for 10 years..but no..they weren't federalist enough..so thank you all very much for ensuring a PQ majority..well bloody played..
@Complicated,
DeleteHarper can't keep running the country in terms of Quebec, and to be fair he shouldn't have to. Nobody should have to cater, or continue to cater, to these bozos. Objectively speaking, he is a genius in terms if running Canada right now. And No, it won't be a cake walk for this province anymore and you are right, quebec will deteriorate quickly, if certain events come to pass. It is rather unfair, however, that to make the point you are attempting to make, you paint Harper as the villain who is majorly to blame for Quebec going down the drain when clearly it is ALL the "Losers" who have governed the past 4 decades who are the real culprits for the state of affairs. It is true, that Ottawa under mostly other PM's (when not trying to appease this silly little province) stood quietly by not doing a damned thing. The buck literally stops here with Harper. He is far less accommodating or understanding or AFRAID than any other PM... when it comes to Quebec, and has demonstrated he has the backbone to pull it off. He is no longer taking the BS this province usually shovels Ottawa's way. Perhaps Harper is what this province needs to finally grow up? Since he has become PM, and obtained a majority...ça ne fait pas notre affaire, in terms of quebec, t'is true, but we've brought it on ourselves, and now it is time to face the music, but trustttttt me the CAQ is certainly not the second coming who will solve all our problems; let's put that into perspective quickly and understand that Monsieur Legault is not this altruistic politician you make him out to be. Some may consider him much more dangerous than any other politician on the scene right now... precisely because....HE HAS NOTHING TO LOSE and will play for broke, should he get the chance. We would be wasting time by buying time, where he's concerned...10 years is it?). Wake up sleeping beauty.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteAs I said if you live in the roc or can leave Quebec easily he is a genius. But many of us here unfortunately are not in that situation so we are going to go down with the sinking ship. It would be nice if Harper actually defended the anglos here in Quebec just once..but he will sacrifice us in the end.
DeleteThe CAQ are not the second coming but at least they would have made some attempt to steer this ship away from the iceberg dead ahead. Naive and believing in fairy tales are all the anglos who do the same thing over and over somehow expecthing things to get better here and decade after decade they have proven wrong. But go ahead anectote..continue to behave in an insane way and vote for the Liberals..they surely are the second coming arent they??
Harper is the second coming, lolololololololololo.
Delete@complicated....Don't worry bout me hon....maybe insanity is what all of us need ..to save ourselves lol...
FROM ED
ReplyDeleteIt's strange that one thing nobody seems to notice about the Conservatives is their out of the worldd spending. Whenever the Torys get us in trouble it takes the Liberals to get the country baxk on track but no one will give them credit for it. Diefenbaker with his hard as iron head put us almost in recession.Would not listen to anyone. the whole country was begging him to call an election. When Trudeau retired the debt was 200 billion. Most of the money was spent on the nationa;l restoration program, one of the greatest things ever done for our country. Houses that would have been razed were restored in 78/79 and today are still housing our population. Mulroney got his greedy hands on the money bin and pushed our indebtedness to 584 billion. he decimated his party doing it and left nothing to show for it. Chretien was fortunate enough to have Paul Martin as finance minister who spent Chretien's 10 years balancing the books and bringing in zero deficits used his three years in office to reduce our debt to 457 billion. saving us 20 billion per year in interest. In five years we would have been out of debt which would make us the richest country in North America. but Harper and the Tory press labeled the Liberals crooked and got back to control of the national money pot which is all they ever want. Harper has put us 150 billion back in debt so we now owe 605 billion, with nothing to show for it. Like Mulroney, harper is working for his big business friends who are the only ones that profit under the Tories.When Tories leave pffice they leave us the taxes to pay for their greed. that's where we are now. Hrper will never do anything to benefit us the Hoi Polloi. Ed
Insultée par une femme voilée
ReplyDeletehttp://plus.lapresse.ca/screens/497e-8cec-52615837-973d-77a1ac1c606d%7CE7E3oi4sM.jL.html
I guess they can't find more anti-Muslim stories if they're so desperate to go for a second round of publishing stories from the same incident they did a month ago. They've certainly trimmed down the encounter to make Laflamme look less antagonistic.
DeleteYou were there?
DeleteI was there when the story was reported on in much more detail a month ago, yes.
DeleteEditor,
ReplyDeleteA suggestion for your next post. Up to you take it or not.
Getting not much of attention, Radio-Canada commissioned a poll to see the language perception of Montreal. 77% think that Montreal is a bilingual city against 23% who think that it is a francophone city. Interestingly, 67% francophones think of that bilingual fact as well.
I guess that this finding is quite a blow to the French cause, Imperatif-francais and Mouvement Quebec francais can only quote the news without putting their smart remarks on it.
No one said that it was an Anglo city?
DeleteI'm assuming it wasn't an option given.
DeleteShould have been
DeleteA Radio-Canada funded poll. Are we surprised they didn't include it?
DeleteLe Canada n’est pas notre pays
ReplyDeletehttp://www.journaldemontreal.com/2013/10/19/le-canada-nest-pas-notre-pays
SR if you expect anyone to pay to read something by Blockhead-Cote you're dreaming, if it was free it'd be good for a laugh, but if I'm going to pay for comedy it'd be for something that tends to be a bit more cogent.
DeleteWhy hasn't anyone talked about forming a "purge" party that would push for the exile of separatists?
DeleteNow that would be a novel idea.
The government just has to have a database of everyone who voted 'Oui' somewhere.
And under this new party, the next time you hear someone utter "Le Canada n’est pas notre pays" you could just reply "You're right" and then call the exile squad.
Now that would be pretty sweet.
Freedom of hate?
DeleteYes - I think it's a great idea - see how they like it!
DeleteYou think dictatorship is great idea?
DeleteThink of it this way. By force of nature, we all assume that when an adult has children that they possess the defacto faculties needed to carry out (at the very least) the bare basics of parenthood.
DeleteAs we all know, the government has created child welfare agencies who are charged with taking kids away from loser parents who beat them, neglect them and spend all their money on booze and lottery tickets instead of food for the kids.
Separatists, are the political equivalent of deadbeat parents.
You beat non-Francophones with ridiculous laws that harm the human rights of others...
...you neglect to take care of what's truly important (ensuring proper health care, creating jobs, fixing the economy, preserving the infrastructure el al...)
...and the highest rate of alcohol and lottery consumption belongs to Quebec.
Think of the separatist government as the deadbeat parent and the Federal government as the protection agency.
They have no choice BUT to confiscate your ability to wield your power.
Just as you can't allow a raging alcoholic who drives drunk to take care of a kid, you can't allow the political equivalent to keep harming "the family."
So, what that means is, don't think of it as a dictatorship, but as a well-intentioned intervention that serves to save the good and well-intentioned majority from a minority of unethical redneck retards who are going nowhere in life.
Best analogy to date.
Delete+20
Yes please deport those who think like retards
DeleteWe have a dictatorship now. All the rules are made by the separatists and that's why Sylvain is right - time to take the care of the children out of the hands of the parents you poor misguided souls.
DeleteWe live in a dictatorship all right. Why is it that Quebec is the largest province in all of Canada? We can no longer be apart of the same province as those welfare fraud in Gaspesie ou les Ile de la Madeleine. We need partition and take our own decision. Let those socialist go bankrupt, for all I care.
DeleteQuebec keeping it classy:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.lapresse.ca/le-droit/actualites/sante/201310/18/01-4701300-une-facon-horrible-de-traiter-un-malade.php
How the employee wasn't fired is beyond me, only in Quebec. If a patient asked if there were books for sale in the Hospital and an orderly whipped around and yelled at the patient that this is a hospital, not a book store, we don't do books here, bam suspended at least, but if he's yelling at someone about language, let's give him a pass.
Parce que la majorité des Québécois sont d'accord avec cet employé...Apprenez donc la langue officielle de la majorité si vous voulez éviter les problèmes de communication.
DeleteThat you can justify this type of despicable behavior from this ass-hole orderly, because of language, to treat a dying man so inhumanly, speaks volumes of what an absolutely disgusting individual you are ...sr.
DeleteWhat goes around comes around, I would hate to be u on a dying bed at the mercy of someone as loathsome as you. Sweet dreams.
@AnecTOTE
DeleteThis reminds me of one separatist who, after reading my opposition to last year's student protests, told me he wishes my children end up homeless and starving so they can feel what it's like not to have a proper education.
Des centaines de personnes meurent tous les jours ToTo la fripouille et pas toujours dans les meilleures conditions.
DeleteSuch a nice understanding guy - this is the future of quebec all! What a culture to be proud of. The world takes notice of these people.
DeleteLe monde ne s'intéresse pas aux anglos du Québec peggy et pour les curieux,ils se demande plutôt pourquoi vous vivez dans un pays francophone et refusés d'apprendre le français...Plutôt idiot non?
Delete@sylvain raciste
Deletewhy did you oppose the students?!?
It bugs you far more than it bugs her that she hasn't learnt French, doesn't it sr? Especially since it bugs her none, lol.
DeleteWhat incredible audacity that she lives in this province and hasn't bothered to learn French, it bugs you to your very core, LOLOLOLOLOL...don't it. Does it keep you up at night that... If she can do so, so can many many others? LOLOLOLOLOL.
Rock On Cutie...Rock On...
What a jerk - I'm as proud to be English as he is to be French and I don't give a shit what language he speaks - that's the difference - I mind my own damn business because I have a life, a family, a home and I had a real job! None of the above applies to the little rat because he hasn't learned to live as yet!
DeleteAnd here's the report from the Ottawa Citizen about the man dying from cancer in the Hull Hospital - At least it seems that the guy should know better and the hospital is investigating the circumstances:
Deletehttp://www.ottawacitizen.com/life/Anglo+family+with+cancer+sick+told+speak+French+Hull/9058884/story.html
Peggy wrote:
Delete"I mind my own damn business because I have a life, a family, a home and I had a real job! "
So many lies in one short sentence. Sad.
Cutie, I remembered when I myself had to go to CHEO with my brothers daughter. The doctors and nurses where all very professional. Services was offered in french since she didn't speak english at that time. One of the nurses was sikh wearing a turban.
DeleteThe SR limbo game of how low will he go continues. Chalking up yelling at the elderly as "a problem communicating". If the orderly didn't speak English that's fine, but yelling at a dying patient or any patient, or any customer really, is grounds for firing of an employee or at the very least suspension.
DeleteTo even defend the action speaks volumes about how disconnected from reality of the actual world around you one is, I mean he called Quebec a country again, yeesh, not looking good.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/pq-to-harper-only-quebec-can-decide-its-future-on-independence-1.1505050#commentsForm-447024
ReplyDeleteI see that this blog is still used as a circle jerk for the sexually repressed...
ReplyDeleteWelcome to the club...mon canayen.
DeleteMore juvenile and pointless in insults.
DeleteFROM ED
ReplyDeleteEditor, Please excuse this very off topic entry. A relative of mine in Caliornia has just informed me that a member of the family comitted suicide and the whole family is in pieces over it. I'm entering a poem I wrote many years ago when the same thing happened here in Verdun. I wish to remind people that are thinking about suicide what they leave behind. Things are bad in Quebec, I'm surprised there isn't more of it. Suicide is a selfish move and does so muich danage to others.
A modern day tragedy that happens all too often
Dear Daddy
"Our father, who is in heaven." Two little children prayed.,
Kneeling by their bedside at the very close of day.
"We know you're up there daddy, Reverend Jeremy 'splained it all.
He said. you're safe with Jesus, that you must have heard his call.
He said that Jesus loves us and would always see us through..
Well, we need a lot of help now so I really hope it's true.
We hope that you found Mama. We know that's why you went.
We know you missed her terribly since she was heaven sent.
Tell Mom we do our best Dad with the little that we got.
Auntie Sue tries really hard but she cries an awful lot.
You took us to the circus Dad. You took us to the zoo.
We wish you took us this time Dad. We'd rather be with you.
Your rifle rack is empty now, there's nothing on the shelf.
Since you took that old thing down that day and turned it on yourself.
Ed
This poem brought tears to my eyes.
Delete