Thursday, October 17, 2013

Charter of Values...the Day After

With all the sound and fury surrounding the Charter of Values, I wonder if supporters of the law stopped to consider its effects once passed in the form now being proposed by Bernard Drainville, the hard line in which the law would apply to those in the medical profession and teachers of all sorts.

Mr Drainville et als. have been telling us that every thing will be peaches and cream after the law is adopted, but it amazes me that not one commentator challenged him on the presumptuous pipe dream.

The first thing I can say with confidence is that while many will reluctantly comply with the law, it won't change who these people are or the depth of their faith or their commitment to orthodoxy.

The childish idea that taking off the veil while at work will somehow magically transform these people of faith or rather as the militants see them, women under the hard lash of their husbands, is a fantasy that only a desperate mind could envision.

Perhaps the rubes in the boonies will applaud, hoping that finally the heathens in Montreal will be put in their place with the removal of veil the first concrete step in converting the immigrants into French-speaking, poutine and maple syrup lovers who eschew marriage and other traditional nonsense.

So what will really change with the passage of the law? Will the law bring social harmony as promised?
If you believe that, again I have swampland in Florida to sell you!

As I write these words I am astounded at the utter ridiculousness of such dangerous fantasy, because the law will do exactly the opposite, create social conflict on a level never seen in this province.

Credit to 'Red White Blue

While those who are for and against the law are evenly split, it is important to remember that those against the ban are highly motivated and have much to lose, making for an uneven fight.
Remember how easily the students paralyzed Quebec and that was fairly benign. What if your job was actually threatened and removing your hijab or kippah, not an option?

The fight will further cleave Montreal from the rest of the province, with a federalist mayor in Denis Coderre supporting those against the charter, after all, he will owe his election in great part to the Ethnics and Anglos who are rallying around him.

As all the health agencies and educational institutions in Montreal have come out dead set against the Charter, who will enforce the law?

Who will tell a daycare worker to go home and leave the classroom of children without supervision?

Who will tell the nurse that she cannot go on to the floor to serve patients, if she shows up to work and flat out refuses to remove her hijab?

Who will tell an emergency room doctor to leave the ER because of a kippah, pushing the wait time for injured patients from the now staggering twenty plus hours to perhaps a measurement in days, not hours?

Who will tell the cooks and orderlies in old people's homes to go home, rather than serve patients meals or clean their rooms?

The PQ is confident that everyone will obey the law, but they shouldn't count on it and therein lies an extreme danger.

The truth is that the entire system could be shut down and if those wearing religious symbols get the support from their co-workers as is most likely in the case of health workers in Montreal, the law will  be the first to be roundly ignored.
Thousands of people flaunting the law is a situation unheard of in Canada, it is the stuff revolutions are made of.
Unlike the students, who could be rounded up and fined, doing the same to health care workers or teachers  and civil servants would bring society to its knees.
It may very well become Quebec's very own version of the Boston Tea Party.
That is where we are headed to and in short, Montreal will go to war with the rest of the province, with demands that the city be excluded from the law, with the support of all the elected officials, hospital directors and school administrators.

It will be nothing short of a popular revolution, with thousands and thousands of honest and hitherto law-abiding citizens turned into scofflaws, and where bosses won't enforce the law because to do so would cripple the institution they run, be it hospitals, day cares, schools or government senior's residences.

The courts will be flooded with thousands of human rights cases and there is every indication that the law will be tossed out.
After all, the Charter of Values is even in direct conflict with the United Nation's Universal Declaration of Human Rights, to which Canada is a signatory; Link

Article 18.

  • Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

Article 30.

  • Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.

In the meantime, violent confrontations will occur when those wearing head wear are confronted not by their superiors, but ordinary citizens looking to enforce the law themselves. Once the law comes into effect, it will become open season on those wearing head wear in the street, on the bus and metro and in the stores, even though the law has no effect there. Scenes like the confrontation pictured above will become a common occurrence.

The number of public confrontations of this sort has already risen dramatically during the current debate, so much so that the Montreal police have formed a special unit to deal with these hate crimes.
If the law passes, this unit will have to quadruple in size to handle the volume of complaints.

So far the Muslims have taken the abuse quietly, but what if that changes and they become tired of the public shaming?  I hate to imagine.

And what about the cashier in the local grocery store who decides that minimum wage isn't worth the abuse hurled upon her by customers who continually castigate her decision for wearing the veil?
After all, she can easily claim psychological harassment and go on disability and who could really blame her?

What about those who will leave their jobs voluntarily because of the ban and enter the ranks of the unemployed swelling the welfare and Employment Insurance rolls? Most Muslim women who wear the veil work in low paying retail and clerical jobs, so the step down to welfare isn't that big a deal.
These are the very real consequences that nobody is willing to discuss.

If Bernard Drainville thinks that this will end well, he is in a for a nasty surprise. While every single journalist and politician is debating the Charter, nary a one is considering its effect.

It's time to open up that debate.


  1. I think Bernie Drainville is onto something.

    Perhaps his government, as a show of good faith, should set an example for those Quebecers opposed to the charter by immediately renaming a few hospitals to conform with Quebec's new secular vision.

    Several come to mind:

    Hôtel-Dieu de Québec
    Hôpital Saint-François d'Assise
    Saint Brigid's – Jeffery Hale Hospital
    Hôpital de l'Enfant-Jésus
    Hôpital du Saint-Sacrement

    Jewish General Hospital
    St. Mary's Hospital
    Mount-Sinai Hospital
    Centre hospitalier universitaire Sainte-Justine
    Hôpital du Sacré-Coeur de Montréal

    Hôtel-Dieu de Montréal
    Hôpital Notre-Dame
    Hôpital Saint-Luc
    Hôpital Santa Cabrini
    Jewish Rehabilitation Hospital

    Hôtel-Dieu de St. Jèrôme
    Centre de santé Sainte-Famille

    While we're at it, we should rename certain schools to reflect the new values as well.

    After all, non-christian immigrants to Quebec might feel uncomfortable being forced to send their children to french schools that bear the names of former Catholic parochial institutions.

    Let's begin with a few belonging to the Commission scolaire de Montreal:

    École Saint-Albert-le-Grand
    École Saint-Ambroise
    École Saint-André-Apôtre
    École Saint-Anselme
    École Saint-Antoine-Marie-Claret
    École Saint-Arsène
    École Saint-Barthélemy
    École Saint-Benoît
    École Saint-Bernardin
    École Saint-Clément
    École Saint-Donat
    École Sainte-Bernadette-Soubirous
    École Sainte-Bibiane
    École Sainte-Catherine-de-Sienne
    École Sainte-Cécile
    École Sainte-Claire
    École Sainte-Jeanne-d'Arc
    École Sainte-Louise-de-Marillac
    École Sainte-Lucie
    École Saint-Émile
    École Saint-Enfant-Jésus
    École Sainte-Odile
    École Sainte-Odile, annexe
    École Saint-Étienne
    École Saint-Fabien
    École Saint-François-d'Assise
    École Saint-François-Solano
    École Saint-Gabriel-Lalemant
    École Saint-Gérard
    École Saint-Grégoire-le-Grand
    École Saint-Isaac-Jogues
    École Saint-Jean-Baptiste-de-la-Salle
    École Saint-Jean-de-Brébeuf
    École Saint-Jean-de-la-Lande
    École Saint-Jean-de-Matha
    École Saint-Jean-Vianney
    École Saint-Justin
    École Saint-Justin, annexe
    École Saint-Léon-de-Westmount
    École Saint-Louis-de-Gonzague
    École Saint-Marc
    École Saint-Mathieu
    École Saint-Noël-Chabanel
    École Saint-Nom-de-Jésus
    École Saint-Pascal-Baylon
    École Saint-Paul-de-la-Croix
    École Saint-Pierre-Claver
    École Saint-Simon-Apôtre
    École Saints-Martyrs-Canadiens
    École Saint-Zotique

    And don't get me started on streets and towns in Quebec. I've yet to find one named after a rabbi or imam.

    How about it, Bernie?

    Show us the money!

    1. 2¢ Worth,

      You are writing under the assumption that the secularism will be applied fairly. You forget that he, they, mentioned several times about "cultural heritage" of Catholicism. Therefore, surely all the Catholic names you wrote above will be exempted since they are, well, landmarks of "Quebec culture".

    2. I wrote this at the same time as Troy, thought I'd post it anyway:


      They'll just use "part of our heritage" argument, or that it would cost the taxpayer too much...bla bla... and save themselves the trouble. Except.... wasn’t Dorchester Blvd. changed even though that was definitely part of the province's heritage??? Mmm…this is where these fools fall short and garner NO credibility to speak of, NONE.

      The problem with ignorant people is they don't think things through and consider the dire consequences of their decisions. I don't know which rocket scientist in the Party thought this one up, but they were either incredibly presumptuous in believing they will get away with it, or just plain dumb for not having considered the deep hole it would further propel this province into in terms of to Race relations and the Economy.

      What’s that expression, “Stupid is as Stupid does”???

      Here’s another: “They’ve made their bed, let them lie in it.”

  2. Replies
    1. FROM ED
      Anonymous has finally taken on a name. Is it all right if we just address you using your first name. Thank you Janette for conforming to blog rules. Es

  3. If the law applies to cities as well...we should rename those too.

  4. Hopefully widespread breaking of the law will occur against Bill 101 and the the possible Bill 14 as well.

    No time like the present to start ignoring our politicians and laws from the nanny state.

    Remember the laws only count against the little people. The main criminals and politicians are the Charbonneau getting free passes.

    It seems amazing that the population would even *CONSIDER * being law abiding with the snakes in power at ever level in the govt.

    The govt and politicians are always one step away from emptying our pockets for their friends.

    What exactly is too much before people realize that massive civil disobedience at all levels is required here.

  5. A letter I had published recently sums up it....

    While the debate over Quebec’s Charter of Values swirls about, a palatable sense of fear and anxiety instills so many I speak with about the potential future it could bring, should it pass. Yet whether or not this so-called law comes to pass, so few seem to be aware of what has already ignited—that we have crossed a point of no return.

    A government is the proverbial parent of the state, and its citizens the children. And much like a parent raising a young influential child, that child will often follow their parent’s teachings, values and attitudes, trusting and adopting their beliefs as their own. A parent teaching its child to hate is utterly deplorable, but a government its citizens? Monstrosity itself. Worse, a volatile danger, a ticking time bomb.

    Let there be no doubt, despite the thinly veiled guise spouted by the Parti Quebecois justifying its creation, this charter is blatantly about hate, exclusion and division. Just releasing the ‘neutral state’ pictogram alone has no doubt caused irreparable damage. What do people see? A chart suggesting what clothing is not acceptable? No. They see a chart depicting what ethnicities are not welcome in Quebec. In the most simplistic terms, the PQ has created a visual list of targets, if you will: Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, Indians, Arabs--the message is these people are a foreign substance, a pollutant…a problem. The Parti Quebecois government has already demonstrated how it deals with such invasive “problems”, as seen in Bill 14 and its other bureaucratic methods of intimidation. The average citizen on the other hand, may see this as an open invitation to defend the state. The question is, and a freighting one at that: how will influential citizens of Quebec deal with the “problem”, and by what means, now that the call has gone out?

    Like it or not, the Pandora’s Box has been opened by the PQ and no one can undo the consequences it will now bring to Quebec.

    1. Don't forget, Christmas and Easter Holidays will have to be banned, at least for all public servants, hospital workers and teachers. We will have to find neutral dates to give to these workers unless of course all statutory holidays are banned to help arrive at a balanced budget.

  6. Tolérez les intolérants,accordez des libertés à ceux qui la brime...

    1. Well you should be glad that's the case SR, it's the only reason you haven't been banned!

  7. Editor:
    I don't support the PQs charter of intolerance, which they're using mainly as a tool to divide canada and quebec even more, but getting rid of religions might help put an end to these kinds of things:

    But I understand you editor, your right to wear a little hat is much more important than animal rights/welfare...

    1. Quebecker of Tree Stump,

      I can not see what your concern is. Thousands of lambs are slaughtered every day, millions of various animals are killed for human consumption. How is it different if it is done for religious belief and for just daily consumption? As long as they are killed to be eaten and to be used for human needs - and not for entertainment, for example - and they are not tortured before they are killed, I do not see anything about on this practice.

    2. Troy:

      I admit I'm no vegetarian, and I realize that animals are slaughtered on a continual basis. As someone who has visited slaughterhouses as part of my job, I can tell you that there are very important differences between a normal animal slaughter and Halal and Kosher slaughter practices.

      In a normal slaughterhouse, the animals must be fully stunned before being killed. In Kosher and Halal slaughters, they simply cut the animal's neck while it's still conscious and let it bleed itself to death.

      I strongly suggest you look into Kosher and Halal slaughter practices. I have a feeling it's something none of us would accept if it weren't related to "religion".

    3. FROM ED
      Stump; The reason Jews and Islams do these things is because they were told to by God. After the Ark landed on Mount Ararat God gave strict instructions on the preparation of food especially meat. They were told how to kill and cook their kosher food. In Genesis 9 God tells mankind, :All the creatures on this Earth have I given for your use, to serve as food or travail."
      Allah who is simply a different word for God but the same God says the same to Mohammed.
      These peole are simply preparing food as were told to do it for more than 30 centuries
      An interesting bit from the rules of the Roman Catolic Church - Pope Pius 9th, September 27th, 1852.
      "Hence it has been wisely decided by law, in Catholic countries that persons coming to reside therein shall enjoy the public excercise of their own peculiar brand of worship. From the cannons of the Church Ed.

    4. FROM ED
      Stump, it's not fact that the animal bleeds to death. That would take several minutes. When they slit the throat it cuts the windpipe and death comes in seconds. Ed

    5. Quebecker of Tree Stump,

      I do not want to go to the debate of whether kosher / halal slaughter is acceptable. However, I want to discuss a bit differently. What about hunting? Hunting is quite big in Quebec. When hunting, the shot may not kill the animal immediately. Some times the animal keep running injured until it can not run anymore. Then the hunter comes and slaughter it.

      Whatever the situation is, I think hunting is more cruel than slaughtering since there is no guarantee that the animal dies instantly. Do you have any objection to hunting in Quebec, or anywhere else for that matter?

    6. FROM ED
      Cutie, I know hunting is in man's blood from the time they had to do it for survival but it's no longer necessary. It's dangerous and cruel as you say. Why can't a poor little deer roam freely in the forest, far away from bothering anyone? Why does someone feel like a big man because he shot a defenceless creature from a safe distance with a high powered rifle. A little bobcat can kill a deer unarmed and he does it for food. I've been in the woods during hunting season and heard the bullets whining by me. Hunters are totally careless, ask Dick Cheney. Ed

    7. To answer your question: Personally I'm not a fan of hunting. Hunting today is done for sport (entertainment), and not for survival, and I don't see why we need to kill living creatures for our entertainment. I think there's a big difference between killing one animal yourself and doing it on an industrial scale, hopefully you'll agree.

      This may just be my impression, but I get the feeling that hunting is much more regulated than any of these "religious" practices. Nobody seems to want to touch that issue with a 50 foot pole, I guess everyone's afraid of being labeled as intolerant. Even you don't want to discuss whether kosher and halal slaughter practices are acceptable.

      Either way, just because one thing that seems wrong is allowed, it's not a valid excuse to let everything else pass. You can't use hunting animals for sport as a way to justify religious slaughter of animals.

      Also, animal welfare is only one small part of the issue. There are many practices that, when looked at without any context, would seem completely unacceptable, and yet we let all these things go on, in the name of "religion". It's 2013, time to move forward and make some progress. That's my opinion at least.

    8. FROM ED
      Cutie, you're also right about not getting into then kosher//halal debate, it's not our thing. While I sympathize totally, it's up to them to argue it from a standpoint of their religion. I will defend my Christianity anytime because it's my duty and i know what i'm talking about. Time for Jewish voices to cry out. Is our Mr Sauga theonly one with gknockers. What do you say Sauga? Ed

    9. "This may just be my impression, but I get the feeling that hunting is much more regulated than any of these "religious" practices."

      Er nope, the slaughter of animals for halal meats is very regulated and needs to be done by a registered slaughter house, I mean they had people from the ministry present at the event in the news story. Any yo-yo can go out into the woods and shoot something with very little chance of being caught by the few game rangers. Try and buy a bunch of cows from registered breeders and secretly slaughter them without anyone noticing, good luck with that one. If you want the animal rights laws to be changed to prevent such practices go for it, but blaming religion for it is kind of besides the point, our laws are the ones that allow the activity, they are completely within the law.

  8. Quebec's Human Rights Commission has just declared that the Charter of Quebec Values violates human rights.

    Which Pauline, Drainville, and everyone else promoting this policy of hate knew all along, which is why they've insisted that they have to modify Quebec's Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms.

    Essentially, the PQ is saying that people have too much freedom and they don't like it, so they have to remove it.

    The PQ of yore is gone. Dead. Buried. They've given up on the left-wingers. They've throwing away all their ethnic supporters. They're even telling the unions to go to hell.

    The PQ under Pauline Marois has gone full ethnic nationalism. And it's going to kill her party.

    She will be the last PQ premier, and the last leader of the PQ.


    1. And we can rely on a separatist newspaper to frame the findings of the Human Rights Commission as "radical".

    2. Especially for you AnceTOTE:

  9. Imagine a religion call malsi witch invite to kill those who are not in it. One day a guy from this religion come with a gun in your school to kill all the kids. Later, in front of the judge he reply ok?

    1. Imagine someone who can't read the rules about posting, who creates such a hyperbolic situation, where a 1st grader could tell you that the perpetrator would clearly go to jail for the rest of his life, and no judge would ever say "ok". What's next you wanting to get rid of free speech because imagine someone hooks up a sound system so loud that when he talks into it can blow peoples ear drums out, and the judge will let him off because he has free speech? How ridiculous.

    2. What gets me is that just because they may not wear something that identifies what their religion is does not mean that someone does not have murder in their mind or heart. What the hell does what one wears have to do with this? Nothing. There are all kinds of nuts in the world and guess what? Sometimes you can't tell they are nuts or extremists just by looking at them!

    3. So, do we give total freedom, half freedom, or just bit of freedom in regard to personal and abusive interpretation of religion. The state has the right to limit religious freedom. Ex. Polygamy

    4. Sure the state can limit religious expression, when it demonstratively hurts other people or violates their rights. Seeing someone wear a head scarf does not fall into that category.

    5. FROM ED
      Thatguy, In think that this anonymous is a mental case troll. Not worth answering. Ed

    6. "So, do we give total freedom, half freedom, or just bit of freedom in regard to personal and abusive interpretation of religion. The state has the right to limit religious freedom. Ex. Polygamy"

      I love these people who will twist things around in this fashion just to make a point and nothing more. And an irrelevant one at that.

      By your reasoning ANON... just remove traffic lights all together, oh and I suppose we don't really need a police force in a society, either right? After all their existence means we're only half free. Oh brother..?? Really??


    7. @ED
      In all likelihood you're right, but just in case might as well set him straight this one time.

      Pretty much, the only way anyone would be truly "free" would be an anarchistic state with no rules whatsoever. It reminds me of when the slave trade was being done away with in the states, and slave owners were fighting it with the argument that it shouldn't be done because it would limit freedom, the freedom for them to own slaves, some people only see what they want regardless of the irony staring them in the face.


    "Harper sold us out to Europe, say Quebec's dairy producers"

    No he finally sold you out to the population at large that got tired of the milk/cheese overpriced scam which mostly benefited Quebec as usual.

    About time this happened.

    So good to see more damage about to befall Quebec. The best part is Harper does it all quietly. It's the quiet fight against Quebec. Never give the seppies the podium.

    Harper I love you. Please keep it up. Quebec will be a better place on the other side.

    Seriously tho. Quebec should get used to it. do they really think Canada will continue to import their overpriced cheese once they split off?

    Where exactly does Quebec think it will sell it's overpriced products? They can;t even compete with France! France! The least competitive country out there and we can;t even beat them.

    It about time all the consumers across Canada stopped supporting Quebec industry with cash.

    Separation or Harper. Seems Quebec will fall apart both ways!

    +1 Harper

    Thank you for killing the union tax credit also.

    The Federal Liberals can;t stop trying to "buy off" quebec over and over. Finally it takes conservatives to start dismantling the bribing of Quebec.

    Canada cannot let Quebec drag it down into bankruptcy. So good to see!

    1. FROM ED
      Canada does not need Quebec to help it go bankrupt. Harper will do it on his own. In 1997 the debt was 563 billion. Under Paul Martin the Liberals brought it down to 486 billion in only a few short years after they got the books balanced from Mulroney's criminality. Harper has pushed the debt up to 605 billion and what has he got to show for it. On top of that Martin left a cheque for 2o billion to pay the next installment on our debt and Harper blew it. A few more years and our debt would be so low that our taxes would be down to nothing. But the cowardice of Chretien refusing to admit that the scandal was his faukt and the typical Conservative underhandedness of Shiela fraser took the opportunity to be rich away from our citizens. What did they care, they were already rich. Liberals are not criminals they are good government. Ed


    Excellent article de M.Foglia

    1. Someone should remind Mr. Foglia he is not pur laines, sooner or later they'll do away with him to.

    2. @anectote

      you'd like french canadians to be more racist than your average western society. i understand that. it would make a solid base for your fantasy. alas for you, and fortunately for quebec, it's not the case.

    3. Yes pinstripes we know that despicable little you likes to take a phrase, twist it around to breath your own dark ominous and contempable interpretation into it. Hell called ...and there is a spot with your name on it.

      On the other hand your little devious pee brain didn't figure that I would grab the opportunity you've now provided and further elaborate on my statement, (just to deliver that knockout blow and see you shrivel on the floor one more time).

      It is no secret that Mr. Foglia has an ethnic last name and ethnics are of little use to the the separatist movement. Sooner or later he will be bounced from it as was Ms. Maria Mourani...remember her? But those who actually bring shame to it, sent to man imaginary embassies in foreign countries and snort cocaine apparently, are called back to La Belle Province, after they have humiliated and embarrassed the powers that be, and are sheltered and protected anyway, by given a job in some other gov't department still collecting a salary, that WE pay for.

      It was simply good advice extended to Mr. Foglia, who should remember who he is. If he has to expend his energies he should do it for 'a cause' that won't end up stabbing him in the back. After all, it is the pequistes who have come up with this racist discriminatory lewd charter, which has incited hate crimes already. Muslim women being attacked and harassed by francophones. AND in it's latest edition... by the Janettes, no less, so what more proof does he need?

      Now, get up from off the floor, pinstripes.


    Get rid of them altogether and use the money for something useful!

    1. Can't wait for the "modernizing" of the OQLF to be that now if an inspector visits you or fines you, you are not allowed to tell anyone or tell the media under the punishment of fines or imprisonment. That's a sure way to make sure Quebec politicians don't get another black eye from Quebec's ridiculous inspectors, hmm maybe I shouldn't have said anything, don't want to give them ideas! :P


  14. In response to Quebec's human rights commission coming out strongly against the charter and it's legality Drainville said "It's as if they don't have the same reading of Quebec society as we have". To which I say, You're completely right Mr. Drainville, they see the reality of Quebec society and you see what you want to see. Who else will need to come out against this charter before they throw in the towel? The PQ seems to believe solely in rhetoric ahead of facts and statistics.

    1. I've written this before, and here it is again: People see what they want to see, hear what they want to hear, and believe what they want to believe.

      Worse yet, and we have seen already with no law and no charter yet in place, small-minded individuals have already started shooting at the target legitimized by the current government. With a law or charter in place, this will only get worse, and only heaven knows how many fold worse this will get.

    2. "I've written this before, and here it is again: People see what they want to see, hear what they want to hear, and believe what they want to believe."

      Ok, I'll admit if you admit it, with one exception, (and it's a curse)..some of us always see the truth.

  15. Going to hockey tonight, but I'll try to get a post out for the weekend re: Quebec human rights commish stance against Charter
    Late tonight or AM


    Oh oh, we are finally getting to see more of what Tony Tomato was up to.

    This will hurt the Liberals for sure. Maybe the liberal brain trust should have though a little harder about tossing these snakes out instead of playing games with "presumption of innocence" and "plausible dependability".

    This is the major problem with the liberals. They want to buy everybody off and constantly make friends instead of ever make anything close to the "right choice".

    They would rather let the mob leech off and not make noise then deal with the problem.
    Instead of telling population Bill 101 etc is wrong, they give in and ram it down in the name of peace.

    Over and over the Liberals unfortunately cannot make the right decisions. They always take the easy way out, usually that involves turning the cheek to something going on in Quebec or just outright wasting money.

    Corruption problem? Get together with the PQ and demand McCleans apologize for insulting Quebec!

    It's a Liberal disease more then a Quebec perhaps.

    Look at the lies, tales and denial coming out of that lowlife Dalton McGuinty. Spending a billion dollars closing power plants to buy votes. Paying the companies massive payments instead of negotiating hard. Then finally lying about the amount over and over and over.

    No wait, he not done yet. Shred and hide documents before leaving office.

    Seems awful familiar territory to a similarly named party in Quebec.

    Is there some kind of "young liberal" playbook that this all comes from?

    1. @cebeuq

      "It's a Liberal disease more then a Quebec perhaps."

      that's what i think too. apart from the flick at bill 101 it's overall an excellent comment mate. keep it up.

    2. fFROM ED
      Cebeuq, why are you trashing the Liberals, trying to make them look bad. Tomassi was speaking out for a company owned as far as he new by two decent people. When he found out they were connected with gangsters he went to Charest who did the right thing in firing him. Tomassi was never charged with anything but they did "throw the snake (singular) out" and gave him the right to be innocent until proven guilty or at least charged with something.
      Of course Charest opposed McLean's report. He was premier of Quebec and had to defend his province especially for investors which he brought in by the boatload. Quebec's economy moved forward under him.
      I don't give a shit what Dalton McGuilty did in Ontario but don't hang his crimes at Charest's doorstep. That's not right.
      All you're doing is giving ammo to the PQ and especially the CAQ who used the same tactic to get the PQ elected.
      Keep in mind what happened in Canada when the Liberals were accused of being crooked. Reporters and especially Ian MacDonald said, "The whole Liberal Party is a criminal orgaization. "
      ' This reflected on hundreds of thousands of decent hard working men and women members of the party across Canada. All because of a small scandal of a half dozen Frenchmen from Quebec led by Jean Chretien mishandling money for the referendum.
      It lost us a government that was pulling us out of debt and on the way to being one of the richest countries in the world. Loose talk can destroy a nation. Ed

    3. @ed

      "Tomassi was never charged with anything..."

      stop the mascarade ed it's embarassing.

    4. FROM ED
      Tomassi was not charged at the time. If and when he is convicted I will call him a crimonal. Until then he stands innocent of wrong doing. Ed

    5. Ed, seriously. Tomassi isn;t a guy the Liberals should ever have taken on.

      He wouldn;t have passed any kind of "smell test" except for sleazy.

      People who run from public positions should have background checks. Never be convicted of fraud scam or violent crime. Never associated with criminal organisations, frequent know hangouts etc.

      The moment a public employee/civil servant/politician crosses that they should be thrown out of the party and stripped of the position.

      It's a problem what went on in this province for decades. It's not just the Liberals. The seppies will read it like that. But they see everything from that angle. What's new? They see a hard rainstorm as a sign that Quebec needs to separate and Canada values are ruining their "homeland".

      The PQ are even more corrupt. They have open deals AT THE PARTY LEVEL(ie head of the party) with the FTQ we just see on Charbonneau. That's different then some random minister.

      Lets not forget Paulines husband was a director of funds at FTQ and was the one that started them investing with Accurso to start with. It's just this stuff is conveniently outside Charbonneau mandate by years.

      The PQ links to the mob and organized crime extend to the highest levels also. The PQ cozy up to the unions. Just by this measure alone they are exposed to a massive amount of corruption and crime. We see the entire top of the FTQ was basically a scam and puppet of organized crime. This si the same FTQ that volunteered free employee's the Andre Boisclare back for an election.

      So in that case the PQ would have had FTQ criminal scum actually helping them campaign.

      It's just the PQ arn;t in power often enough to really make the full impact and get the numbers up. They didn;t have as many years in govt is the only reason they arn;t featured on charbonneau more. Just timing, nothing more.

      Anyway my point is that the Liberal attitude is most often, "the PQ are massively corrupt" so they feel it's ok to have "a little corruption". In their eyes, they have other priorities always to govern.

      Based on what we keep seeing there needs to be a constant perpetual investigation into all our civil servants and politicians. Part of the job. Don;t sign the contract you can;t run for anyhting. You can;t be hired by any level of the govt or Montreal style "arms lenght". BIXI etc. Look at all the scams that are being hidden from us in these "arm length companies".

      They can take all the employee's into one big list, start investigating all the ones born in an EU country as priority level 1 review.

      All other empolyee's they just grind through. It should be impossible for somebody to work in any of these positions and the combined service is over 5 years without a major background check.

      No pass the check, no continued employment possible or running political position.

      This is what they can task the few hundred employees of the OLQF to do. Something useful.

      We need to make serious efforts to curb what has been going on here and make sure they continue in perpetuity. We have already done this for Charbonneau, Cliche etc. How many times must we do things before we take it seriously.

      You cannot be taking the level of taxation Quebec does at the same time it's so massively corrupt. That's basically Italy dysfunction transposed onto Quebec.

    6. FROM ED
      Actually Cebeuq, The Pq had one year more in power than the Liberals since 1976.
      My point is don't give ammo the enemy against the only party that can save us. Elections are being undermined in Canada and Quebec by dirty tricks, mainly calling the other party crooked. Don't help them Ed

    7. @cebeuq

      ed is kindly asking you to hide the facts mate. how pathetic is that?


      here's a choice for the next election: a federalist thieve or an honest separatist? what's the lesser evil in your humble opinion?

    8. A Federalist thief. That's why Montreal chose Tremblay over that female PQ psychopath as it' mayor a few years ago.

      There is already a precedent.

    9. ‘It's a Liberal disease more then a Quebec perhaps.

      Look at the lies, tales and denial coming out of that lowlife Dalton McGuinty. Spending a billion dollars closing power plants to buy votes. Paying the companies massive payments instead of negotiating hard. Then finally lying about the amount over and over and over.’

      And here lies the big problem. All traditional parties from the last 5 decades are all the same. They have ALL added to the debt, the have all allowed the racist, bigoted language laws of Quebec…bills 22, 178, 101…

      If you think switching from one party to the next is going to change anything, them YOU are the problem. They are all corrupt scum bags. They have proven this time and time again…

      It is a sad state that we are in. e live in one of the most corrupt nations in the world and the province of Quebec is definitely the most corrupt and racist of the lot.

      Sadly most of society is the take, is greedy to the core…5 decades of government fraud, money laundering, corruption…the people have followed the leaders really well.

      Well done Quebec, well done Ottawa.

      Take a close look at Greece, Detroit…its coming. I will sit back and watch the freak show and you scum bags in government WILL get what you deserve, I hope... I look forward to it.

    10. Mr. James Wolfe we luv ya!!!!

      This is the difference between Federalists and Seppies.

      Separatists can't admit their sh*t stinks!!

  17. Me no understandy:

    Now say that Quebec was already sovereign ( I know, I's like believing Santa Claus is real or that Justin Bieber isn't an android).

    Anyhoo, let's say Quebec were a full-on country. That train would still have crossed the same jurisdictions to reach its unfortunate final destination. Would it still seek help with the bill? Don't think so simply because they know they'd have no grounds to call for it.

    Just not getting how they would expect "father Ottawa" to finance their shit when they're planning to leave home anyhow.

    Can student and S.R please provide us with some smoke-and-mirrors bullshit?

    1. @sylvain raciste

      if quebec was sovereign, there would have been a dude on the train when the train's brakes broke. so the disaster would not have happened. and to answer your question more precisely, no, quebec wouldn't seek canada's help with the bill.

    2. Actually, there's no way short of magic powers of knowing how railroad transport policy would be managed in a sovereign Quebec. By postulating the existence of a guard on every train, you're merely projecting a fantasy onto a non-existent state of affairs. Should you defend this line of reasoning by saying that naturally in a sovereign Quebec, all trains on all railroads would be manned by at least one guard, you'd have to provide an argument explaining the inevitability of a sovereign Quebec that is vastly more attentive to railway safety than the government of Canada. To justify that, you'd need to argue that Quebecers are naturally more attentive and diligent in matters of infrastructures and public safety. However, you've also argued in previous posts that the Liberals and their supporters (almost 40% of the population) are pathologically corrupt and therefore inclined to promote lining the pockets of their friends at the expense of the public good. These people would still be movers and shakers in a sovereign Quebec. It is just as likely, then, that the railroad lines in a sovereign Quebec would not have any guards on them should the right brown envelope change hands. If you resort to arguing that the Liberals (or their equivalent in your would-be country) are the party of anglophones and allophones, then you're implying that there is an innate proneness to corruption unique to non-francophone Quebecers save the virtuous few who've somehow seen the light.The flipside of this train of thought is that francophones are naturally altruistic and that it's therefore inconceivable that, they being the principle movers and shakers of a sovereign Quebec, there should be any corruption or laxity of standards (unless instilled by a renegade fifth column of anglo/allo recalcitrants). This would place your thinking firmly in the reasoning-by-sociolinguistic (fancy talk for racist) prejudices you're so busy decrying up the page.

    3. "if quebec was sovereign, there would have been a dude on the train when the train's brakes broke."

      Ha, yeah because the Quebec government is really on top of inspection and making companies follow regulations when they fall within their jurisdiction now.

    4. I totally expected an infantile answer like Student's.

      Of course, in a sovereign Quebec nothing would go wrong. Ever.

      Just keeps on proving how unsophisticated the average oui-voter happens to be.

    5. @thatguy

      "you'd have to provide an argument explaining the inevitability of a sovereign Quebec that is vastly more attentive to railway safety than the government of Canada."

      vastly? preposterous you. a sovereign quebec needs to be just a tad more attentive to safety in order to man parked fuel bombs. i admit my claim is based on a hopeful assumption: when sovereign quebec legislators wonder how many people should stay on an explosive train they figure it's more than zero.

      "you've also argued in previous posts that the Liberals and their supporters (almost 40% of the population) are pathologically corrupt..."

      i've never argued that mate. why do you use this dishonest technique? the liberal party of late exists to funnel money from you to its sponsors yes, but the 35% of people who are still tempted to vote for them will do it for various reasons, certainly not because they are "pathologicaly corrupt". since the rest of your argument is based on this lie, i won't bother with it.

    6. @sylvain raciste

      "in a sovereign Quebec nothing would go wrong. Ever."

      hum... this kinda depends on if you stay or if you leave mate.

    7. "...why do you use this dishonest technique"

      Hahahahahahahahah...Look who is calling the kettle black. The reason your brain imagines such subterfuge in others is because that's how IT'S wired. You personify what you are accusing thatguy of.

      Hell called again.

    8. Since we're playing with assumptions, I'd say that in the eventuality of a Quebec separation, the railway rules would stay exactly the same and only after a disaster such as the one in Lac-Mégantic they might change.

    9. Student, Quebec will not be sovereign ever if it does not have its own currency. Same for Scotland, which wants to keep the pound.

      It's as simple as that. Own currency=sovereignty of the state. Foreign currency=dependence of one sate on another state.

      It boils down to this one thing. The rest (flags at the UN, membership in the UNESCO, a Quebec Team in the Olympics, "envoys" to New Your and Paris) is just a meaningless decorum.

    10. P. Darwinopterus wins the contest. Give the man a cigar!

    11. Student I know you don't put much though into your replies, but could you actually respond to the people whose quotes you are quoting and not attribute them to someone else? As much as I'd love to take credit for Calgarian in Montreal's well thought out reply, I didn't write it and mis-referencing quotes is a form of plagiarism, something a student should avoid at all costs, pretty basic stuff. Thanks.

    12. @thatguy

      sorry about that mate.

    13. @adski

      "It's as simple as that. Own currency=sovereignty of the state."

      many countries share a common currency and still enjoy a decent political autonomy. but i agree that having control over a currency is the nec plus ultra. i'm no economist, but i think, as you seem to do, that it would be beneficial for quebec to go its own way on that front too, if ever it splits away from canada. right now it uses a petrol doped currency that doesn't quite fit with the nature of its economy. it's a handicap.

    14. EU coutries, since you are probably referring to these, share a currency printed by EU in which all these countries are represented and have a say in.

      Quebec would be sharing a currency printed in the capitol city of another country in which Quebec has no representation and no say in its monetary policy.

      It would be less like the EU and more like some third world countries using the US dollar.

      There is not a single country in the first world that uses a currency printed by a foreign bank over which the country has no political influence.

      Quebec will need its own currency, or will need to join the EU in some transatlantic deal (if this sounds ridiculous, it's because it is) or join the US. Or exist at the mercy of a foreign national bank.

    15. @adski

      i agree. ok for the quebec franc then.

    16. "Quebec as a sovereign nation would choose the Canadian dollar. That's absolutely certain." - Jacques Parizeau

  18. Replies
    1. FROM ED
      Anonymous, I'm glad you finally found yourself a name. Do you mind if we just call you Janette. Ed

    2. Unfortunately blog rules dictate other users can only refer to another poster by the screen name they use, as you've posted as Janette I can only call you Janette, Janette. Multiple screen names are also not allowed so I hope you like Janette, Janette. The full rules can be found here:
      and an update to those can be found here:
      Have a pleasant afternoon Janette.

  19. This morning, in The Gazette, A3, Marian Scott writes a piece: Rights commission raps PQ's knuckles. Sub-heading: Courts would kill plan:

    "The parti québécois government's charter of Quebec values is a clear infringement of human rights that would not stand up in a court challenge, the province's human rights commission says"

    Mm okay now that that's settled, one has to wonder about the possibility that those who have been personally victimized already and attacked on the streets of this province as a result of its mere introduction, may have a real case to sue over it. Heaven forbid they band together, and collectively find a Human Rights Lawyer who would like nothing better than to make a name for himself over something like this, taxpayers, Quebecers would be screwed unless the real culprits were personally brought to justice in a court of Law, and the province/taxpayers, left out of it,... it's practically bankrupt enough as it is.

    In an ideal world anyway.... Justice would prevail!

  20. Did you think about using the most recommended Bitcoin exchange company - YoBit.

  21. Are you exhausted from looking for bitcoin faucets?
    Double your claiming speed with this new BITCOIN FAUCET ROTATOR.