Tuesday, September 24, 2013

Poll Exposes Sad Truth about Race Attitudes in Quebec

A new poll conducted by Radio-Canada and the CBC puts paid to the notion advanced by the PQ that Quebecers are for a secular society that equally bans all visible religious symbols from being worn by public and para-public employees.

The poll, a logical extension of the debate was the first to ask ' la question qui tue  'a phrase which simply describes an uncomfortable question that begs a response.



And so we get to the heart of the issue.
Is the public against all religious symbols or just some. Link{fr}
"Elsewhere, 90 per cent of Quebecers said they’d be at ease with a doctor wearing a cross, while only 65 per cent of them said they’d be equally at ease with a doctor wearing a kippa.
The disparity could be owed to confusion about what a kippa actually is, said SOM Research Vice-President Éric Lacroix.
Considering that the kippa, a skullcap worn by Orthodox Jewish men, is actually the least visible of the headwear mentioned in the poll, Lacroix said it’s possible some respondents confused it with “kirpan.”: Link
 Confused? I don't know whether to laugh or cry...

Let's just consider the first figure, the one that indicates that 90% of Quebecers are fine being treated by a doctor wearing a crucifix.
All of a sudden the rationale that it is all religious symbols that upsets people is utter hogwash. It is the non-Christian symbols that are in dispute.

Let me wade in on the comment by the SOM researcher who seemed a little embarrassed by the fact that the kippah came in dead last, saying that perhaps those questioned mixed up the kippah and the kirpan.
It's not as stupid as it sounds, voters are notoriously opinionated and stupid at the same time.
Let us remember a recent story that indicated that almost half of Quebecers are functionally illiterate.
I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that 50% of the people being polled never saw a kippah or kirpan in their life or for that matter met a Jew or a Sikh in person, I'm not exaggerating.

Back in the day, as a political organizer, over many campaigns, I developed a 'dirty' polling technique whereby I would organize four or five campaign workers to poll nightly, to see where our candidate stood.
Obviously we couldn't get a large sample and so we carefully targeted those who were representative AND WHO INTENDED ON VOTING.
We'd pick from the voting list a fair sample of names that represented the ethnic and linguistic and as well as a socioeconomic cross section of the riding.

It's a fancy way of saying that in a riding like Westmount we'd poll voters in the poorer areas in proportion to their numbers as well as language.

Our pollsters would first qualify those they called with a first important question.

"There is an election coming up. How would you rate the chances of you voting?"
"Probably not - Maybe - Probably -Very likely."

If the caller answered anything but 'Very Likely,' the pollster terminated the call, experience has taught me that the caller would not be voting and therefore his or her opinion was moot.

If the caller told us that she or he was very likely to vote, we'd ask for which party, not which candidate they'd be voting for. Some people vote for the candidate, but all vote for a specific party.
This rule has been validated in the last federal election where NDP nobodies were elected in Quebec on the basis of party affiliation.

CBC Internet Poll about Montreal as a City State- Reliable?...err.
At the end of the night, after three or four hours of calls, we'd tally up the total, but also by voter category.
If we didn't have enough of say, francophone responses, we'd go back to the phones and interview francophones until our ratios were complete.

We'd sometimes have as little as a hundred responses, but they were quality responses and I'd put up my system any day over lazy Internet polls that get a thousand responses but are  completely unreliable.

So my problem with the SOM poll is that it is a lazy poll.

Only real pollsters on the phone can ascertain the intentions of the responder.

If the person hasn't seen or doesn't understand what a kippah or kirpan is, the opinion should be ignored.
As John Diefenbaker said... "Polls are for dogs"

By the way, the lazy polling techniques used today make results completely unreliable, as we've seen in many, many of the last elections.

Give me a small team of trained and dedicated pollsters and I'll out-poll the big boys any day of the week.
At any rate, the only thing we can take away from this poll,  is that the public has a problem with religious symbols, as long as they are not Christian.

That is where we are, not a pretty place.

One last thing, I'd like to touch on what is what I call the polling 'uncertainty principle," whereby asking a question has a unintended effect on the answer.
An example: "Did man really land on the Moon?"
Just asking the question makes the responder consider what he or she would perhaps never have considered as a possibility in the first place.
So asking a responder if they objected to being treated by a doctor wearing a kippah, falls directly in this category. The question itself will skew the results.
Perhaps we should delve into  the work of Werner Heisenberg, to see how he dealt with this quantum mechanics dilemma.

At any rate, we are plowing into dangerous territory, but for the PQ it is a question of damn the torpedoes, they have nothing to lose, while we have everything to lose ...

92 comments:

  1. For those who want some light relief from "la charte de la chicane" from a francophone perspective:

    Et Laïcité créa... Laflaque
    L'Infomanistan

    I find in amusing how the writers of both programs spoof J-F Lisée as a snooty monseigneur, as though he were an archbishop of old watching anxiously over his flock.

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  2. You know what really cheeses me off is the delay of performing colonoscopies, which are responsible for saving lives, because of a lack of equipment and services while this stinking PQ government waste money on ads promoting their stupid Charter of Quebec Values instead of putting that money where it could do some good. I hope some of these people sue the government if it is found that they could have had the surgery necessary to save their lives had it not been for the mismanagement of funds from the government. When are people going to rise up and demand that this government start spending money on things that really matter rather than creating discontent and disharmony for no damn reason? I have to believe there is really something wrong with the priorities of the people in this province.

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    1. Same in Ontario, so you're not alone!

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    2. Are you saying that the provincial government in Ontario is using funds that could be used for health care to advertise something for their own personal agenda? I know there are waiting lists in Ontario but why do you think that is? It can't be for the same reasons.

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    3. Well technically one could argue it's the same all across Canada because money for healthcare comes from transfer payments from the federal government, and what is the federal government doing? Spending at least 100 million dollars on economic action plan ads over 4 years (http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/09/16/economic-action-plan-tv-radio-ads-stirring-little-interest-poll-suggests/) in order to push the conservative brand. On the upside it does not seem to be working, on the downside what a waste of money.

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    4. I guess if you look at it that way - Personally I really resent having our tax money used for personal agendas no matter if federal or provincial but especially in quebec I resent my tax money being used to actually take action against their own citizens like paying the IF and the SJBS to harass anglophones. Rules should be established both federally and provincially to stop this type of use of taxpayers money but I guess that'll happen at the same time as they disband the senate.

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  3. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTWednesday, September 25, 2013 at 8:57:00 AM EDT

    @Editor:

    Many assumptions are made in your article.
    Having said that, your articles about the Charter are becoming a very stale topic. The Charter is not against freedom to wear religious symbols privately or on one's own free time in public. It's about gov't of Quebec public work force employees not wearing "in your face" religious accoutrements while at work. That simple; it's a dress code. BTW since 90% of that work force are "pure laine" what's the issue? The PQ are not demanding that folks wear Europe 1940's David's Stars on them, right?
    Plus since you prefer NYC better than Montreal, what keeps you in Quebec?
    There's an old saying that goes as "If you don’t like it here, why don’t you move to another country?"
    Stop making yourself unhappy.
    ---------------------------
    I know it was the best decision for me to move away. Others, such as "cutie" are lifelong bitter ranters that use this platform to complain endlessly with recurring racial slurs against francos. She's documented in that field... It has no place on your blog. You complain about racism from francos to anglos but you are more happy to do it as well.
    This must be the most unproductive bitch/whine blog.

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    1. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTWednesday, September 25, 2013 at 8:59:00 AM EDT

      Facts are facts.... Since there are well over 600 000 anglos Quebec wide why can't you have more posters and readers other than the 12 odd unfits?

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    2. Because they are all too busy trying to make a living unlike the PQ supporters in union guaranteed jobs where the govt can never go out of business, never fire them, never lay them off, perpetually give them raises etc.



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    3. We could do with one less than we have, that's for sure. What a complainer about complainers! Must have something to do with a schizo personality. Too bad that his only solution is for everyone to "move" - Must be a paid up member of the PQ - lots in common with them as to the answer for the "final solution".

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    4. @UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORT

      Many assumptions made in your reply, how do you know that the Editor prefers NYC to Montreal? Is it because he has mentioned previously that he has visited there or has family there? I also enjoy NYC, Ottawa, Quebec City, Halifax etc etc. does that mean that I prefer them to Montreal? It means only exactly what I say, I enjoy other cities in addition to my home in Montreal. That is exactly what the Editor said about NYC, he enjoys NYC, he never said he preferred it to Montreal that I am aware of anyway. If I am wrong please feel free to correct me and show me the post where he said that?

      Using that same foolish logic could we ass assume the same about you, that you prefer Frankfort to Montreal or whatever city you are now located in by your screen name? However, that would be foolish logic on my part since I don't know you and don't know where you live or what you look for in a place to live.

      The racist comments go both way on this blog, I know I have been subjected to them from Franco posters on this blog. Do I blame all Franco people? Absolutely not, it is a small fringe group of closed minded people and whether they are French, English or Aliens is really irrelevant. As I mentioned before in a reply to one of Eds posts demanding everyone here reply in English, the language used or the heritage of the poster is irrelevant, what matters is the content of the post.

      Since you and several other posters continue to use the phrase "if you don't like it here move"

      I would say to you and those posters "if you don't like this blog leave" don't make yourself unhappy, there are many other blogs in cyberspace, many would probably suit your political or personal beliefs much better than this one.

      However, that really sounds a bit silly doesn't it? I mean after all we are here to share and debate ideas, most of which are controversial and close to peoples hearts and minds.

      In other-wards, if you would like to sincerely improve the quality of this blog, focus on the content of the posts and refrain from the easy worn out cliche phrase "if you don't like it here move"

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    5. FROM ED
      Une ars has a point. Why are we down to about a dozen posters keeping the blog alive. We used to be a vibrant group with intelligent men and women putting up interesting comments that were well written and thought provoking.
      Ed

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    6. I was not aware of that, I am fairly new to this blog. Perhaps they are busy now that school has started back up, or perhaps they found a blog they prefer more? After all you said you had found a blog that you prefer more, maybe that is where all contributors have gone?

      Or maybe it's true, maybe to much racism and bigotry going back and forth for some people to stomach?

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    7. Perhaps everyone is just tired of this whole argument and just want to get back to normal lives with a little less scandal and disappointment?

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    8. It's been very sad to see un gars decent into trolldom over the past couple of months. The posts he makes these days are just to insult the posters on this board calling them all racists and unfit. He tells everyone who complains about Quebec to just leave if they have any issue with the province, yet he constantly complains about the blog and yet he remains. He complains about anglos complaining about francophones being racist, goes onto complain that all anglos on this board are racist against francophones. Then to top things off he complains about "complaining" on the blog.

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    9. Ed, the blog is getting more and more popular. I myself am a new member for a just 6 month. Regardless, at first, reading some of the Editor old post, some had zero comments, so I think this blog is quite popular, nowadays.

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    10. For a while I was quite an avid follower of this blog but the endless dreck put up by trolls like S.R. and student put me off. S.R. in particular, is a waste of space, as he always manages to get someone to respond to his crap, which drags the quality of the blog down even further. I suppose by driving readers away he is achieving his goal, but it's an illusionary victory as the province will continue to circle the drain whether this blog survives or not.

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    11. FRON ED
      Liam, You dream in technocolor. I've been here since beore the last election. There has never been 0 posts. Look back over the last three days, it's the same 14 max discussing the latest links and the trolls evoking time wasting comments. It just seems sad to see something really good go really bad. Ed

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    12. And Ed please tell us what you would like to discuss if not the latest news in the province? What is more important than what is going on right now - every day, all the time. Talking about the past and why we are in the mess we're in is interesting but not urgent. The urgency we have is now with Bill 14 and the Charter of Quebec Values and what we can do about these problems not what and why we are where we are. When I joined the blog it was just before the last election so things were just heating up but not they're hot and the links that are posted mean you can take action BEFORE things happen not when it's too damn late to do anything. That should be the focus - not the past for heaven's sake - we can't change history - we can find it interesting but we can't change it!

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    13. And Diogenes - I agree with you - the resident trolls are very frustrating indeed and use up way too much space. I so hope that the Editor will boot both SR and student off the damn blog so that we don't have to keep being distracted by every piece of nonsense they put up!

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    14. FROM ED
      You see Cutie, that's why I'm the only ne you're hearing from. I'm sure some of our old posters would agree with me but they're afraid to sperak out because people like you and Liam who will tell them they're wrong instead of looking at the facts you try to blame the trolls.When no one answers trolls they lie dormant. R.S. was a wondeful poster. he put up articles of great interest. Cat, Aparachcik, Yannick, where are they.. Where's Durham and the rest? Anyway have fun, I guess. Ed

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    15. un gars has no point by the way. All he does is critize the province, the anglophones, the francophones and then tells all of us that we're racist. BS - he publicizes only negative monetary information concerning the province - never anything about the social battle we're in or the fact that we are fighting for our very survival in this province as anglophones and allophones. He has already stated, more than once, that he thinks it's OK for the PQ to regulate how people dress. He has never offered any pertinent information/advice as to what can be done to prevent this province from becoming a socialist/communist country within a free North America. With friends like him we sure don't need enemies. His moniker is deceptive and false. He is a "born again" Canadian that happens to speak french but has said here, more than once, that he is interested in starting a petition outside quebec to kick us out of confederation. Just another sovereignest except it happens that he is not residing within our borders. I consider him a troll of the highest calibre and try to ignore him baiting me on every occasion that he can even when my comments do not concern him. What else does a troll do except turn the debate away from the discussion. He's very adept at that.

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    16. Look at what facts Ed? I've no idea what your referring to - I used to enjoy reading all the contributors that we had as I learned something new from them all the time but as to why they've left I don't get your point. Exactly why do you think they've left? It can't be because we are discussing what is going on here at the present time because that would not make sense. If you are only interested in talking about what's happened since the 1950's,I'm sure there are history blogs out there that would love to hear the tales and if there is, I'm sure that complicated is one of the contributors for sure. We have no choice right now - we are in a battle for our future and our way of life that is happening every minute of every day in the NA - right now - not yesterday.

      Since all this started with Bill 14, I have seen you post one letter that you sent to newspapers (which is more than most have done) but I have not seen you discuss Bill 14, the impact it would have, nor the impact of the Charter of Quebec Values - this is what is going on right now ED - not 1960! Start discussing what's happening here and now - that's what's important!

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    17. You know Editor after re-reading un gars post of Wednesday a.m., I really have to ask why you put up with the insults that this guy throws at you every chance he gets for no reason. It's bad enough that he does it to me but why do you put up with it? Just curious as I know you give a lot of thought and time to your posts and he always takes a kick at you for absolutely no reason. Not my business maybe, but I hate to see these people deliberately ruin the work that you do and it gives all of us an outlet for our frustrations living here but you do not deserve to be treated with the disrespect that he continuously throws at you. IMHO.

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    18. Maybe all the old posters are dead?

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  4. Editor,

    Maybe you can enlighten me. What is the difference between kippah and yarmulke? I prefer to call the headgear a yarmulke exactly to not confuse it with kirpan.

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    Replies
    1. I too would be most interested. I have a very good Jewish friend that is a vet but he does not wear the yarmulke - I know for sure that even if he did wear it when I take my dog to visit for whatever reason, it would not bother me in the least.

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    2. She got both Franco & Jewish friends...
      No wonder she wants to stay in Quebec...

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    3. What is the difference between kippah and yarmulke?
      Both mean the same thing.
      A 'kippa' is the Hebrew word, 'yarmulka' the Yiddish word. Yiddish is the language (now dying) of East European Jews. Some Jews use one term, some the other some, many both.

      Delete
  5. http://blogs.montrealgazette.com/2013/09/25/pq-charter-of-values-secularism-or-ethnic-nationalism/?postpost=v2#content

    Look at the image: the real visage of the ethnic nationalism (pushed forward by very "cultivated" NOUS-people who cannot even spell "immigrant" in their mother tongue and write a clear message...)..."travailler l'opinion": what a heck is that?

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    1. For the information of everyone in the Montreal area:
      http://www.cjad.com/CJADLocalNews/entry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10594564

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    2. Time to start outing the PQ and friends -
      http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Charbonneau+Commission+public+security+critic+calls/8957214/story.html

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    3. http://www.cjad.com/CJADLocalNews/entry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10594656

      SSJB are at it again. There's a mobile app to track which stores are french enough, with users rating quality of french service.

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    4. "The group says 54 per cent of Montreal customers will speak English when addressed in English."

      I'm confused as to why this is a problem? Clearly a lot of people want to speak in English and a lot of people want to speak in French and if they want to speak in French they have no problem responding in French.

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    5. Vigilantes for the PQ will be running the streets reporting every french slight and pulling scarfs off of peoples' heads as they venture out to do their grocery shopping. Something to look forward to come bills 14 and the new bill to "protect" the francophones from every imagined offense against them. We had better get ready to hire thousands of new public servants to enforce and follow up on every complaint! Just what the PQ want for their friends and family members that are unemployed and I'm sure the job descriptions will be very interesting.

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  6. Cousteau veut que Gatineau en fasse autant qu'Ottawa

    http://www.lapresse.ca/le-droit/actualites/actualites-regionales/201309/24/01-4692585-cousteau-veut-que-gatineau-en-fasse-autant-quottawa.php?utm_categorieinterne=trafficdrivers&utm_contenuinterne=cyberpresse_lire_aussi_4692602_article_POS2

    Daughter of french documentary film maker praises Ottawa action to protect the Ottawa river while criticizing Gatineau lack of commitment.

    Elle a félicité la Ville d'Ottawa qui a réduit de 65% les déversements d'égout par les surverses, ces tuyaux qui envoient les eaux usées dans la rivière, sans traitement, lors de gros orages pour lesquels le réseau sanitaire ne suffit pas à la tâche.

    «J'aimerais que la Ville de Gatineau fasse la même chose qu'Ottawa et investisse de l'argent pour éliminer les surverses. Si Ottawa les élimine et que Gatineau ne le fait pas, la rivière sera encore polluée»

    Well, it seems that Quebeckers don't really care about the environment after all.

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    1. Yes Liam, they pretend that they care about the environment until it hits them in the pocketbook - they are not different than anyone else. I'm sure that some of them are sincere and think that they are of like mind, but in reality it all comes down to basic needs and comfort.

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  7. "Poll Exposes Sad Truth about Race Attitudes in Quebec"

    Je suppose que les "races" devraient faire un peu plus d'effort pour se faire aimer.

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    1. Blaming the victims of discrimination, for the discrimination, the SR race to the bottom continues unabated.

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  8. "It is the non-Christian symbols that are in dispute."

    I hope this isn't a surprise to anyone.

    On one side, we have racists and xenophobes who are afraid of something they've never seen - as you stated, most people outside of the Montreal area rarely see any minorities.

    And on the other side, we have a bunch of people who can't accept someone telling them that their ridiculous supernatural beliefs shouldn't affect others, and that we live in a society with others, all while pretending everyone with a different opinion is intolerant.

    Both sides have diverted the real issue so much that it's just a big joke now.

    Personal religious beliefs are fine, but what we're willing to sacrifice for those beliefs seriously needs to change. Unfortunately the PQ will set us back another 50 years on this issue.

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  9. Like Bill 14, the Charter is/will be a stupid economy-killer measure.
    http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/Charter+Quebec+Values+would+harm+economy+drive+away/8957868/story.html

    You can do it, Pauline, yes you can destroy the province: a little more of efforts, Pauline .

    That's the right combination to do that: majority PQ+Bill 14+ Charter+other restrictive language laws and les jeux sont faits.

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    1. They really don't give a shit - as I said, all their eggs in the basket this time around. God quebec,smarten up and kick them to the curb!

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  10. More slime, sleaze and corruption courtesy of Quebec...in Ottawa...all over the place...

    http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/montreal/story/1.1868426

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  11. This just in:

    https://www.facebook.com/ACHETEenFRANCAIS

    http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/09/25/quebec_language_laws_online_tool_targets_offenders.html

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    1. This just in also:
      http://westislandgazette.com/blog/blue-notes/story/2013/09/25/pq-governs-as-if-theres-a-war-on/

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  12. Everyone that can should download the app “Moi, j'achete en francais” and flood it with false reports and leave comments in English.

    Sic Twisted Phoque

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    1. Cette application fonctionne à merveille...on peut même attribuer des notes aux commerçants..Cette app est un must.

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  13. How come so many of Don Macpherson's articles in the Montreal Gazette resemble so closely the blog pieces in NDOA. I've noticed it a lot. Here is the latest that came out a day after an almost similar post here in NDOA
    http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/Macpherson+Asymmetrical+secularism/8957981/story.html
    Does anybody else notice this phenomenon?

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    1. I was going to mention the same thing awhile back John. It is noticeable - perhaps the editor and Don are good friends - lol. Anyway, a compliment to the editor of the blog if Don is using his information for his editorials.

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    2. lol - good point but I believe he makes just a little more money writing for the paper than for this blog!

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  14. "If the caller told us that she or he was very likely to vote, we'd ask for which party, not which candidate they'd be voting for. Some people vote for the candidate, but all vote for a specific party."
    The only exception to which would be the party leader being distinguished from the party. I'd hazard to guess that in the last election a lot of people voted for Jack Layton, rather than the specific policies of the NDP. Though can you really blame voters for not voting for specific candidates? With party discipline it's not like individual candidates can speak thier mind or even vote the way they want to, even on nuanced issues the party takes a stand and the member has to vote yay on it regardless of if their constituents want it. I mean good luck every getting any information out the average candidate during an election, other than biographical information. It'd be nicer to more individualization between the candidates but the parties will never give up that kind of control willingly. The other option would be to have many more parties with views on different topics as a parliamentary system is supposed to run, but with the cutting of the funding per votes to the smaller parties, it's basically established the big boys will be alone at the top for a long while to come.

    As to the notion that internet polling cannot be as accurate as over the phone polling I have to disagree, with a caveat, and it is a large one, of the internet polling is done right. Having read through the reports of most of the polls coming out of late a number of things jump out, how little information is given out as to the recruitment process for those polled; how leading some of the questions and scales seem to be; and how far from what the actual questions asked and what people claim they say. The participants seem to be drawn from a pool of individuals who have signed up to take part in online surveys for them, how big is this pool, how often are the same individuals polled, do they receive anything for doing it? Most questions have unnecessarily long preambles before asking a rather simple question, it bring to mind the referendum question which was purposefully concocted to not be straight forward.

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  15. FROM ED
    Cutie says - "un gars has no point by the way. All he does is critize the province, the anglophones, the francophones and then tells all of us that we're racist. BS - he publicizes only negative monetary information concerning the province - never anything about the social battle we're in or the fact that we are fighting for our very survival in this province as anglophones and allophones. The point is we had posters that are doing just that. You say he has no point because you are to busy with your own war to notice the rest of us are there too.
    Un gars may be an idiot but when he makes a sensible point you dismiss it by saying he has none. You accuse me of being tied up in the past because I wrote a couple of articles way back about the history, so it's stuck in your brain that I'm passe.
    My posts are usually about what Editor writes, you haven't noticed that. You're too busy with your 'support group' agreeing with everybody who is saying the same thing as you. What I post comes from my own mind and is a different point of view. All you're doing by posting links is posting what others have written. Perhaps someday you'll come up witha thought of your own that is not criticism of me and others who don't agree with you.
    Un gars point and mine is that our better posters (people who post their own ideas, not someone else's.) are not posing and you're too busy with your own search for links to even notice that they've gone.Ed

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    1. @Ed
      Yannick was posting here not 4 days ago. Aparachcik, cat and RS haven't seen since the dust up with the Editor, wherein you said and I quote " it is his blog. To those of you who oppose his tactics, did you ever think of offering to pay the costs for a month." yet here you are, almost daily, blaming everyone else for the trolls, whom they have no control over. You complain about the lack of substantive comments yet you have added nothing to the forum other than complaints about how no one intelligent posts here any more, and how the blog isn't like how it was back in the good old days.

      I mean you're still calling me childish names 3 posts back because I had the unmitigated gall to call you out on your hypocrisy, and was called everything from a liar to a stalker for actually providing evidence to support my claims, heaven help me this time. Incidentally I've responded to that post with a quote from you calling someone a troll in your reply to them, going to be hard for you to explain away that one.

      The worst part is you see what you want to see, un gars has no point, he wasn't bemoaning the lack of substantive commentators, he was insulting the blog for not having a larger readership. Now let's assume that his point was to just insult the 12 regular commentators...that's you Ed, you're one of the 12, he's insulting you, but you were too busy trying to find an opening to throw in your daily snippy comment about how everyone commenting on this blog is terrible it went right over your head.

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    2. Yes Ed go back and read un gars comment(s) again and tell me when he ever offered anything pertinent to our discussions even when RS, Yannick, Cat, etc contributed to the blog. You are defending him for supporting good contributors but he has never done that. The only thing he ever does is tell us to leave and how much money he makes outside quebec. Defend and support the fact that we have lost some very intelligent posters but don't defend a guy who has never participated in this blog in any respectful or helpful way.

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    3. I don't post as often lately, partly because I'm on a tight deadline before I start in Winnipeg in November, and partly because some of my favorite commenters (Adski, Apparatchik, The Cat) haven't been showing up lately.

      It's hard to find something to comment about when I agree with the editor and with the bulk of the commentators.

      Delete
    4. Speaking of which, thatguy, I agree that it's silly to get upset about that habitant peasoup. That said, calling it like that denotes a slightly stereotypical marketing technique, a bit like how blacks in the US are uncomfortable with Aunt Jemima.

      To answer your musings about the link between habitants and acadians, it's that to Quebecers the stereotypical Acadian is a hick who speaks with a weird dialect. Therefore, acadians in general are just as worthy of contempt as their own habitants. You're quite right that it's hypocritical to deride peasants when all of our ancestors were peasants. For instance, Sauga has commented on Acadians working with him who had experienced it. Luckily I come from a part of NB that sounds relatively more "standard". While it made me sound snooty in school, it allows me to go to Quebec without raising eyebrows.

      Delete
    5. Gotta say I never really got to whole insulting people because of their accent thing, I mean it's not uniquely a Quebec thing at all, it reminds me of England where every major city has their own unique accent and they mock or deride every other accent. Here in Quebec you get made fun of for being from France, from a rural area, if you have an anglophone accent, I've even been mocked in Montreal for the way I say bus in French, because it sounds like a Quebec City pronunciation. It could be because I'm from a large family with relatives from all over the Quebec, but all accents I've heard so far just sound normal to me. I dunno it just seems like one has to be rather self involved to think out of 6 billion people thier accent is the norm and everyone elses' is not normal. On a tangent, I spent a summer going around NB and NS, very nice places, and shockingly nice people, honestly coming from where I come from it and have clerks and just passersby strike up conversations with you is kind of weird :P.

      Delete
    6. "Aparachcik, cat and RS haven't seen since the dust up with the Editor,...."

      If that is the reason we haven't heard from our friends, it's rather sad. I hope it is because they've just been busy. But in the event where they are feeling a tad rancorous, over what happened, I hope our friends remember why they started coming here in the first place. They saw a problem and someone was being brave enough to voice it and foremost, denounce it. That problem is Injustice and Injustice is indecent.

      At the end of the day, it would be very sad if ego trumps Cause. That kind of silliness should've get in the way...if it does, it speaks volumes of motivation and true Intention. I realize what I am saying may be harsh perhaps, but I say it out of a profound sense of respect and reverence. What we are all doing here is of value, especially because we're awakening a certain consciousness in people. It's been noted on a few occasions now that, often, when we read things here, when we post things here, they will make their way to mainstream media and this isn't insignificant. We are changing our reality one little post and contribution at a time. We are making a difference. This Blog is making a difference, it is becoming a Movement.

      Ego should never trump Cause.

      I will say no further on this, hope to read you soonest and thank you for reading this post.

      Delete
  16. FROM ED
    Tp thatguy, seriously, have you ever done anything besides snipe at what others say and do it in an underhanded way. We get the point, don't do anthing that will screw up our fun with the trolls because that's the intelligence we can handle. I will no longer be reading anything you post.
    Ed

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @Ed
      "seriously, have you ever done anything besides snipe at what others say and do it in an underhanded way." You've clearly never read my posts, either that or listen to them. The only reason you're being "sniped" at is because of your continued insults on the blog and those who frequent it for the past few weeks, you started this, don't try and play the victim. I also don't think using someone's own words against them to be "underhanded", you said it, own up to it, if you regret saying it admit as much, don't deny it ever happened.

      "We get the point, don't do anthing that will screw up our fun with the trolls because that's the intelligence we can handle." Nothing you have ever done has dissuaded trolls from posting. Trolls are like school yard bullies, they only do it to get a negative rise out of people. What do you do? You constantly complain about them, throwing blood in the water, they know they're getting to you and they'll keep coming back because of it. Now what are you doing, you're telling them that it was them, who drove away the other posters, telling them that what they're doing works, the only thing you're doing is encouraging them. If you have complaints take it up with the editor in an email, stop subjecting us to continued insults on our intelligence.

      "I will no longer be reading anything you post." No you'll read it, and you'll sit there and stew about it unable to post, lest you appear hypocritical again. You wonder why there is no meaningful debate on this blog? Because people like you who completely shut down when confronted by any opposing view, who resort to name calling and mock people who use evidence to support their arguments.

      Delete
  17. We have no money for our own population, leaving hundreds of thousands of our men at increased risk of colonoscopies, but hey, let's piss more money away to nations that have nothing to do with us, just for the frivolous need of a title and lip service:

    http://www.lapresse.ca/le-soleil/actualites/politique/201309/25/01-4693265-jean-francois-lisee-veut-une-acdi-quebecoise.php

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. OMG - does this type of thing piss me off no end. What the hell are they thinking? This has to be for optics only as quebec is so broke that it's laughable. Those poor people that can't get proper medical care must be just outraged. These PQ are running all over the world playing country with our money but our own population are denied the basic health care they need. I wonder what they think of themselves when they look in the mirror each morning. Disgusting.

      Delete
    2. In french but I used Google translate.
      http://quebec.huffingtonpost.ca/rosa-pires/charte-strategie-electorale_b_3991294.html

      Delete
    3. Hey Cutie, corruption in Gatineau:
      http://www.lapresse.ca/le-droit/actualites/ville-de-gatineau/201309/25/01-4693233-la-collusion-se-precise-a-gatineau.php
      (English Translation) "The documents explain in detail the system of collusion established in Gatineau between August 2003 and February 2009, as disclosed on September 3 at the Charbonneau commission by the director of AECOM in the region, Marc-André Gélinas. Over the years, between 80% and 90% of civil works contracts awarded by Gatineau were won by one or the other of the four companies targeted by allegations of collusion or CIMA + Genivar, Dessau or Tecsult ."

      Delete
    4. Meanwhile in Ottawa:
      "Firms AECOM, CIMA +, Dessau and Génivar, all covered by allegations of collusion in Gatineau before the Charbonneau commission, did not win any of the 15 competitive bidding for contracts in the field of civil engineering in Ottawa since the beginning of the year."
      "The City of Ottawa provides engineering contracts based on best price / quality ratio, technical merit and cost are taken into consideration," said Jeff Byrne, Chief of Supply of the municipality. "Act 106 of Quebec [...] ensures that we retain the lowest bid submitted for infrastructure projects," he compares. Are we surprised? The province had a policy to encourage corruption!
      http://www.lapresse.ca/le-droit/actualites/ville-dottawa/201309/05/01-4686388-ottawa-pretend-que-son-systeme-attenue-les-risques-de-collusion.php

      Delete
    5. It's really sad but every damn engineering firm in quebec seems to be involved with collusion. I have to wonder why none of our politicians in Gatineau even suspected these firms were colluding. When I worked in contracting, we were especially vigilant about bids that came in that were too closely priced - seems like a lot of the people that worked in public works in Gatineau were not doing their jobs. Ottawa seems to be more aware of what's going on with these firms. I'm waiting to see if there is any guilt on the part of our city councilors other than taking tickets to some stupid event or other. They keep bringing up donations to political parties such as the liberals but I'm sure the PQ got their fair share of money also. The provincial parties are all guilty of taking funding that they were not supposed to. Will be interesting to see where this leads and I hope more info becomes available before our municipal elections in November.

      Delete
  18. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/revenue-canada-corruption-feared-over-400k-cheque-to-nicolo-rizzuto-1.1868426

    Montreal office of course. Culture of Corruption in Quebec.

    This is where seppies dig up. "Oh yea, Rob Ford might have smoked crack". As if the personal failings of one politician are comparable to the systematic corruption in Quebec from top to bottom.



    """The $381,737.46 cheque was made out to "Nick Rizzuto" and addressed to his house on Antoine Berthelet Avenue in north-end Montreal, a street known as "Mafia row" because it was home to several major players in the city's Sicilian mob.

    The cheque is labelled "income tax refund" and is dated Sept. 13, 2007. Rizzuto was in jail then, having been arrested the year prior and charged with extortion, bookmaking and drug smuggling as part of the biggest police crackdown on the Italian Mafia in Canadian history.

    Court records show that at the time, he also owed the tax department $1.55 million, which the Canada Revenue Agency tried to collect by getting a tax lien on his home.
    """

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It appears that everyone operated with impunity. How come if I owe the province of quebec $15.00 on my income tax they
      would hold back any outstanding money they owed me to collect their miserable $15.00? They would chase me down until they got their money but these crooks all walked away with tons of money and no one even batted an eye.

      The CTV News video at lunch with the political analysts talking about the PQ and the Boisclaire affair:
      http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/video
      I guess the NA must be a pretty sight these days with everyone being involved in corruption. No one will escape which suits me just fine. Time for all of them to be exposed. Maybe then some serious clean-up action can take place - we hope

      Delete
    2. Cutie, it's the culture of Quebec.

      These arn;t one time events. Cleanup is not possible.

      We have our own "too big to fail". Virtually all govt business is corrupt. The govt isn;t capable of functioning if all the corruption was removed.

      As long as Quebec keeps all contracting to a tight group of local people change is impossible.

      Until a company from Toronto can come in and grab a construction contract nothing will change.

      The unions and politicians have written the rules so that's impossible.

      Change is not possible.

      Delete
    3. Well you're right about the lack of competition because they make it practically impossible for any firms outside of quebec to bid on work for the provincial government. Because of this stupid nonsense, you're probably right in that the firms inside quebec don't have to worry about competition so they may as well collude. It is ridiculous that we as taxpayers have to pay 30-35% more for shoddy work than we would have to if they would change their contracting regulations and let bidders from Ontario in on these bids. The unions have this all sewed up and probably don't have a thing to worry about no matter what party is in power.

      Delete
    4. @cebeuq
      As long as Quebec keeps all contracting to a tight group of local people change is impossible.
      Until a company from Toronto can come in and grab a construction contract nothing will change.
      The unions and politicians have written the rules so that's impossible.
      Change is not possible

      That is such a true statement! I work for a very large contractor, they have offices in every single province except QC

      They have done (2) projects in QC in their 86 year history both for private clients and faced lots of problems with the Unions in doing so. They were very interested in trying to work in QC several times. They even employee several fluent French speakers but have never been successful in securing any public work contracts. They finally gave those aspirations up and have focused their expansion in the US and the Caribbean where they continue to grow and flourish.

      To add insult to injury when I was living in Ontario the largest (2) contractors from QC worked freely in Ontario.
      In fact both those QC contractors continue to grow in Ontario under the free market system that is the ROC

      However, you know who the real loser is, it is QC. There are a few contractors in the ROC that posses great experience and ability that the (2) QC contractors do not. I mean it is not that the QC contractors are not good contractors possessing a great deal of skill, its just no contractor can be the best at every type of work

      For example, by far the most experienced hospital builders in Canada (I don't even think the QC contractors would dispute this fact) are not working on either of the major hospital projects currently underway in QC.

      Its sad because in the end we (all Quebeckers) loose by missing the opportunity to assign the most efficient resources to the projects that are the most important to the community.

      I guess that is QC

      Delete
  19. Pauline, you have followed my advice. You have been putting some much energy in it:

    http://affaires.lapresse.ca/economie/macro-economie/201309/26/01-4693467-chute-du-pib-quebecois-au-deuxieme-trimestre.php

    Don't give up: in two months the goal will be reached, recession! Courage ! Courage, Pauline !

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. As long as she get's us over the "tipping point" so we can start the full on death spiral.

      Go Pauline!

      Once she announces another election the paralysis in Quebec will really start. Not a single thing will happen until after the election is over.

      Houses won;t be selling, companies won;t be hiring etc.

      Everybody is waiting to see if the wicked witch of the west gets kicked out.

      Delete
    2. God - you're right - I guess it can get worse. Months of stagnating, more jobs lost, less medical care month after month, immigrants leaving for provinces where their rights will be respected - what was the "guess" date? December 9, wasn't it? Going to be a long, drawn out fall. Maybe by then the population that think this Charter is a good idea will have read enough (those that can read which is 51% if I remember correctly) to realize the problems it is going to cause - let's hope so anyway. Between the Charter and Bill 14 she will have managed to completely and utterly destroy what is left of quebec all inside of a year.

      Delete
  20. Les Quebecoises sont des chiennes?!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA2BJ2wFXyc

    Enfin un témoignage

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. C'est très intéressant de voir à quel point certains Québécois vivent dans le déni le plus profond. En écoutant la femme "humiliée et outragée" par les deux femmes voilées, on a l'impression que les dernières soient coupables tandis que la première, pieuse et toujours prête à aider les pauvres victimes du monde, doive être sanctifiée tout de suite.
      Le théâtre québécois du croquignolesque...

      Delete
  21. Well it's official - the patients are now running the mental hospital that quebec has become.

    http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/09/25/quebec_language_laws_online_tool_targets_offenders.html

    We have the SJBS "helping" the language police now. Those poor merchants - watch yourselves guys - there are more nuts running around than ever.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Meh, this is nothing new they've been patrolling stores and submitting complaints about stores for years. There was a news story from the student protests about how some students from French universities were accompanying Mario and his gang to go around and report on stores because of all the "free" time they had...you know when they were supposed to be on strike. They might have a new gadget but the only people who will use it are the same people who go around patrolling or who go onto yelp etc to write a review about nothing but to say the waitress' French was a bit broken. If they're hoping that the market will help the French language they are out of touch with reality, the only reason we have language laws is because the market chose English and the government had to intervene to stop the market. People care about quality products and services for low prices, not whether 1 employee out of 10 has trouble speaking french or if an English sign is the same size as a French sign.

      When the article says "Repercussions for the worst offenders can include calls to the business, reminders about the legal requirements in Quebec, reminders and follow-ups, as well as “other actions if necessary.” are they talking about the OQLF or the volunteers? Because if it is the later, now that is just harassment.

      Delete
    2. I wonder the same thing? Do they mean repercussions from the OQLF or from the volunteers?

      Lucky for me I don't own my own business, but I do hope to my own business someday. If some snotty nose language volunteer came to my business threatening me and telling me how to run my business, well, lets just say I would not be to happy about it.

      In fact, I might be so unhappy about my rights being violated, that I might have to settle the issue "out of court" and impose my own repercussions

      Delete
  22. from the dread

    did you guys hear about that "Moi, j'achete en francais" thing they're about to launch???how pathetic!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Cette application fonctionne à merveille...on peut même attribuer des notes aux anglo-commerçants..Cette app est un must.

      Delete
    2. Duplicate of a statement he already posted:

      S.RThursday, September 26, 2013 at 3:25:00 PM EDT
      Cette application fonctionne à merveille...on peut même attribuer des notes aux commerçants..Cette app est un must.

      Delete
    3. "Did you guys hear about that "Moi, j'achete en francais" thing they're about to launch???how pathetic"

      FIX OUR STREETS ALREADY....that should be the only priority right now.

      Delete
  23. FROM ED
    Here's an interesting item. On my way to get my meds tghis morning, I spotted an upright piano out side the De L'eglise metro station. on the sidewalk. I sat down and played 'When Irish Eyes Are Smiling' The gang hanging around the bench outside the metro were the old group I used to entertain at St. Willibrord's soup kitchen. They came over and started to sing. A young couple in their twenties listened to a few songs and then started telling us in perfect English that we should be singing french songs out of respect for Quebec. Some of the group argued with them (albeit politely) but when I rolled out 'There'll Always Be an England' they cursed and left. We sang on and closed with 'O Canada'. Ed

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Way to go Ed - you should go out and do that a few times during the week and stand your ground if approached by these language zealots. Sounds like you could have some fun and you like to play the piano. Enjoy it and go again tomorrow if the weather is nice!

      Delete
    2. Great - this whole charter is splitting the sovereignists right down the middle. I love it!
      http://www.cjad.com/CJADLocalNews/entry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10595177

      Delete
    3. Nice, good for you and "When Irish Eyes Are Smiling" is such great song!

      If the young couple had any respect, they would not be bothering people from enjoying their freedom to play what comes into their heart.

      I hope you do it again as I will be interested to see what the response will be in the future. If you don't mind throw in a little "The Bonnie Banks of Loch Lomond"

      Delete
    4. FROM ED
      Actually, we came close. For scotland we sang "Road to the Isles' For Australia we did, 'Waltzin Matilda' For france, 'La Seine" For the U>S> 'God Bless America, For England, 'There'll always be an England' and 'Kiss me good night Sargeant Major' for Ireland, WEhere the River Shannon flows and closed with O Cnada. I will play Loch Lomond today. Ed

      Delete