Monday, September 23, 2013

Quebec Charter of Rights....'panem et circenses'

Robert Heinlin
For those without Latin, the phrase translates as 'Bread and Circuses" a metaphor that describes superficial means of appeasement.
"In the case of politics, the phrase is used to describe the creation of public approval, not through exemplary or excellent public service or public policy, but through diversion; distraction; or the mere satisfaction of the immediate, shallow requirements of a populace, as an offered "palliative." Juvenal decried it as a simplistic motivation of common people.The phrase also implies the erosion or ignorance of civic duty amongst the concerns of the common man."  Wikipedia

Perhaps the simplest example of 'bread and circuses' was the action of Emperor Nero who blamed the Christians for a fire in Rome which he himself started. He then arrested the Christians and fed them to the lions in a public spectacle known as Damnatio ad bestias ('condemnation to beasts") which was for all intents and purposes was a simple distraction, one that blinded the public from the truth that in fact, their city had been destroyed.
No different than a preschool teacher who runs her students ragged in a series of high energy games in an effort to tire them out and calm them before nap time.

It pains me to write about Quebec's Charter of Stupidity at all, because to do so falls into the neatly laid trap set by the PQ to shift focus away from a dysfunctional province with a dismal record of failure, dishonesty and shiftlessness, led by an incompetent government of self-important, yet witless fools.

Given the dismal state of affairs, it is easy enough to understand why the government would choose to switch focus away from the real problems which are hard to solve, to imaginary problems with the attendant simple solutions.
Because the government occupies so high a public profile, it can easily spread any message it wishes, all with an air of authority,  and so the PQ is filling the airwaves with nonsense, paranoia and fear. It is not a particularly difficult feat, but a horrific betrayal of our Western values.
Any decent and honourable government resists the very real temptation to descend into the fiery cauldron of demagoguery and manipulation, usually out of self-respect, pride,  decency and the dedication to the democratic principle that was instilled in all of us.

It is no different than deviant parents who school their offspring in racist, cruel, evil and dishonest values, a dubious yet not particularly difficult accomplishment,  something no self-respecting parent  or decent citizen would do.
Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

But the PQ has decided in selfish pursuit of power and sovereignty to cross the line of decency, playing the race religious card in order to create a panic where none exisits.
And so the ends justify the means.

In this respect the PQ is traveling down the same line as the Germans and the Russians who blamed the Jews for economic woes, as did Uganda's Idi Amin who scapegoated the Asians as well as Robert Mugabe who blamed the Whites. It goes on and on, today  Christians are blamed for the fall of Mosrsi in Egypt today.

Scapegoating is a game that's been played for time immemorial and ever since Adam blamed Eve,  scapegoating had been a consistent human trait.
"The scapegoat, Campbell suggests, tends to be an outsider, someone we believe to be “incapable of suffering” and who can be readily dehumanized."  -Scapegoat, by Charlie Campell 

And so Quebec's campaign against the religious symbols can be judged in the same light, quite simply because it is a non-issue, turned into a raging problem for crass politcal gain. Curiously, we've never been told how many individuals actually wear the dastardly symbols, probably because there are so few.

But the reality is that the civil service is less that 7% minority and  of that minority, only a mere fraction wear religious symbols. The problem, if a problem at all, is but a trifle.

The same goes for religious 'accommodations.' The PQ has never really detailed the problem or spelled out the instances of religious confrontation in any detail.
Independent verification by journalists reveal that there are less than half a dozens complaints lodged with the Quebec Human Rights Tribunal over accommodations per year.
And so the government proposes a solution to problems that don't exist.

Let's look a little more closely at those civil servants and the problem of religious headwear.
The chart  over here indicates that the civil service is 91.5% white francophones, 2% Anglophone and 7.1% visible minorities.

So how many of these visible minorities wear religious headwear?
Let's do some sums, I'm pretty sure you won't find too many Jews in kippahs, dishing out licenses at the SAAQ , the same for Sikhs with turbans.

This issue is about Muslim women who wear the Hijab, who have been roundly vilified in the separatist media, portrayed as medieval oppressed objective lackeys.

So it boils down to figuring out how many of these Muslim women wear the hijab to work at their government job. 

Muslims make up about 25% of Quebec's visible minorities, so 7.1% divided by 25%= 1.77% of which, about 60% are women, or 2.4% x 60% = 1%
Of the 1% of Muslim women who work for the government, about (20%) according to Minister Drainville actually wear the hijab, leaving a grand total of less than  of one percent or about 220 of Quebec's 78,000 civil servants.

A veritable crisis....
This is called 'manufacturing dissent,' creating an issue out of a non-issue.

Now for another argument put forward by the PQ, the one that says  that state employees in positions of power, including police, guards, judges and teachers can give the impression of partiality.

Cases in point, a young Muslim appears in court charged in the firebombing of a Jewish school and who faces a judge who is wearing a kippah.
 or...
A Hasid car accident victim is treated by a turban wearing emergency room doctor.
 or...
A young mother who is concerned that the daycare teacher  is  wearing a hijab and may be inclined to fill her daughter with non-Christian nonsense.

How will making these people remove their religious symbols change the fact that if they are so inclined, they will change their attitude because they've been stripped of a religious symbol?

If the Jewish judge has it in for the school bomber based on his religious convictions, then kippah or not, he shouldn't be  a judge.
If a turbaned Sikh doctor who removes his turban during work hours, harbours certain prejudices and lets it affect his work, he shouldn't be a doctor.
And a teacher who removes her hijab during class, but continues to proselytize in favour of Allah, shouldn't be allowed to teach.
By the logic above, a white driver given a speeding ticket by a black policeman could wonder as to the motives of the policeman.
Should a divorced judge who was badly beaten in his own divorce be allowed to decide a divorce case?
Should a female judge physically battered by her husband in the past be allowed to hear a domestic dispute case?

The government's logic in all this is that those who wear kippahs, hijabs or turbans are by nature partial and unfit for certain positions of power.
Magically taking off their hats, doesn't change who they are. It is preposterous.

People who are unprofessional should be weeded out of the system, but not based on their skin colour, sex or religious affiliation, overtly demonstrated or not.

We all bring our personal feelings and history to work, it remains that we do our jobs impartially and whether our personal baggage is hidden or plain to see, is of  no matter.

But in telling Quebecers that religious symbols are unacceptable, the government is telling the public that the wearers of those symbols are unworthy and that signal is a dangerous sign that cannot but lead to  discrimination, dangerous confrontation and polarizing ostracization .

A big ado about nothing.....
A crisis that isn't a crisis and a circus led by  ringmaster Drainville  who will say and do anything to distract the public from the sad reality at hand.

If a few Muslims suffer the consequences, well.... you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.

In the meantime the mayor of Quebec Regis Lebaeume unloaded on Minister Agnes Maltais  demanding that she face the $5 billion shortfall that cities face in relation to their municipal employees pensions plans. Madame Maltais wasn't overly concerned, telling the mayor (as the school boards were told before) to just increase taxes.
A furious Leabeaume was forced to admit this week, that the PQ government gave in to the union demands and put the issue on hold once again.

How serious is the pension debacle?
I was at a family BBQ and met an ex-fireman from the city of Montreal who retired at the sweet age of fifty.
I imagine he started working at eighteen and had 32 years on the job.
But taking a pension at fifty means he could collect until he's ninety, an impossible burden for the taxpayer.
The very able fireman now works as a salesman while collecting his pension, all the time reminding us that 'them's the rules.'

I bet you haven't even heard of the explosive pension issue, because the media is obssessed with Hijabs and Kippahs.

Lebaume is looking to change the rules that dictate when one can retire and when one can collect, pushing the notion that no government or municipal pension can kick in before 65 years old.

It's an important hot button issue that deserves our attention, but alas, let us by all means put these discussions to the side and face off with nonsensical issues of distraction.


Welcome to the circus, pass the bread.

92 comments:

  1. I assume that there will be an article posted later?

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  2. Well well well! Now municipal pension funds are fast drying up? Who's going to pay for that one?...Ohhhhh, wait a minute, what a no-brainer...GENERATION SCREWED, who else?

    I'm old enough to realize I'm not going to get in on the gravy that firemen did at age 50, but I hope he doesn't mind supporting his kids living at home when THEY'RE 50 because they're screwed. The QPP lost about ¼ of its value, and so did RREGOP and the rest of the plans no thanks to the sloppiness of the Caisse de dépôt, but it's not as if the beneficiaries collecting now will suffer, it's all those who follow...the younger they are, the worse off they'll be.

    The protests re the tuitions last year are just the beginning...

    Harper: You're reviewing the equalization program within the next year. You're not getting the votes from Quebec, so cut the gangrenous limb called Quebec from Canada now before it kills the rest of us.

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    1. 'Harper: You're reviewing the equalization program within the next year. You're not getting the votes from Quebec, so cut the gangrenous limb called Quebec from Canada now before it kills the rest of us.'

      I hope PM Harper does something, i really hope so...

      Quebec has been ripping off the country for decades...since Trudeau and his gang of cronies arrived in Ottawa...on the take for decades...slime, sleaze and corruption...the french way...

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    2. Don;t worry Harper will cut the money to Quebec.

      He's just not vocal about it. He's doing some good work at helping to dismantle Quebec and stop them from stealing from the rest of Canada with distorted formula.

      It's great to see some journalists go on and on about how Haprer doesn;t "understand" Quebec. These limousine socialists assholes are just used to the Liberals constantly on their knee's to Quebec begging to be loved and handing out trinkets and favorite rulings.

      Harper understands Quebec perfectly. He's should be spending no effort or time in Quebec. He will never get a vote he would not get anyway.

      Every effort should be made to deny money to the Quebec welfare state and stop the damage that Quebec causes to the rest of Canada.

      Harper is a true defender of Canada unlike all the previous liberals.

      You can;t negotiate with terrorists (or the PQ acting like them).

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    3. Now if only he didn't do things like forcing mandatory sentences for minor pot offenses (we don't need a prison system like the states), be extremely secretive, not be transparent about the cost of things (G8, fighter jets), not way overpay for things (boat contracts, orange juice), not be involved in a scandal every other week, not prorogue government to distract from said scandals, not break election promises (more transparency, senate reform, not touching trusts), not muzzle scientists, not fire frontline inspectors while keeping the bureaucracy in management just as large, bring back the long form census so statscan can do its job, not keep adding to the debt, stop running pointless conservative ads on our dime (economic action plan), stop making Canada seem like an embarrassment at the UN, then we might have something there.

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    4. At least he's not a socialist politician appealing to pipe dreams like the NDP and he's grounded in the real world.

      If Quebecers like Harper, he's doing something wrong.

      It's like watching all the Obama supporters epileptic because he hasn;t come through on a single promise etc.

      The job of politicians is to not fuck with the country and create rules with unintended consequences.

      We don;t need politicians passing laws "du jour" simply to make themselves look busy and to appeal to their constituents.

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    5. Oh, I'm in no way implying the other parties are perfect either, however I'm always surprised that conservative voters are always so hesitant to take Harper to task over the really weird places he over spends or overpays that go completely ain't the parties ideas of fiscal conservatism. I mean he's not going to people who will never vote for him, but if his base started to question the extravagant spending maybe he'd listen.

      Harper came to power on the heels of the sponsorship scandal promising increased transparency, less scandals, to reform the senate and not to touch income trusts. He's since managed to be even less transparent, refusing the divulge information, making public servants run everything his communication department, muzzling backbenchers completely and only willing to field limited pre approved messages. He's engaged in scandals where sums of money magnitudes larger than the sponsorship scandal has gone missing (I'm sure Tony Clement's riding is happy for all the cash though (G8)), nothing has been done in terms of the sentate in the 10 years they've been in power, and they completely gutted trusts.

      "The job of politicians is to not fuck with the country and create rules with unintended consequences." States have issued warnings about the results of mandatory sentences, and all the evidence was against it, but he went through with it anyway. He gutted the environmental act effectively removing environmental protection for a lot of waterways. So those are evidence of that, unless you consider them to be intended consequences.

      "We don;t need politicians passing laws "du jour" simply to make themselves look busy and to appeal to their constituents." That's exactly what getting rid of the long form census was, getting rid of it didn't make much sense, but he did it to appeal to his constituents who were paranoid about being asked a few extra questions.

      The only time the man has hadn't run up a deficit was when he was first elected when the Liberals handed him a surplus, sure most of that could be blamed on the recession, but he was running a deficit before it even hit. He's been dumping expenses onto the proviences left and right and still isn;t even planning on a balanced budget until 2015 (when the next election is shocker).

      He might not have some of the more unrealistic plans of the other parties but let's not pretend we've got a prize pig on our hands.

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    6. That Harper's party needs to shore up some prominent short comings before I'd consider voting for them?

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  3. I've watched of number of interviews where Mr. Drainville tried to sell the charter, partly out of the perverse pleasure of watching him squirm (I'm only human), but also to if they other side has a compelling argument that I just wasn't seeing (they don't). The only time he has given an example of religious conflict/tension when pressed was citing the frosted glass incident at the YMCA. Which I find odd because the community worked out a solution to the problem all on their own, they installed clear glass that had blinds, so if the teens from the synagogue (was were the actual problem, horny boys, not religion all things considered) came to gawk they could lower the blinds for some privacy. No government intervention was needed, there were no fights in the streets, cooler heads prevailed. If those are the kinds of issues we could face without the charter, I think I can live with that.

    If anyone is interested in news about underfunded pensions a story can be found here on them: http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/moody-s-highlights-unfunded-pension-risk-in-quebec-n-l-1.1860882

    What I immediately through of when reading the editor's pointing out of the hypocrisy of assuming someone will be unable to perform their job if they wear a religious symbol was this is a quote from a pro-charter supporter at the rally today

    “When I go into a government office and I see a woman wearing a head scarf, I think Arab right away,” Zongo said.

    Extra points to however can tell me what is fundamentally wrong with that statement!

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    1. Well I have to agree that I would not be comfortable being served anywhere by someone wearing face covering, be they full or in part. I like to talk face to face with someone and look them in the eye plus be able to identify them. That being said, the rest is garbage. Whether someone is wearing a turban or a head scarf, is none of my business nor should it be. That is their own business and, as long as it does not affect their service, I couldn't care less and whether they are wearing religious garb or not, if someone is out to do you harm, it doesn't matter what the hell they are wearing. Actually having their rights suppressed by others will, if anything, make them even more hostile if they tended to be in the first place. Immigrants usually appreciate their freedom from the suppression they left behind in their own home countries and 99% of the time are just usually looking for acceptance in their host country. It is normally their children and their children's children that are the beneficiary of a full integration into the host country's culture and traditions. Although we do have "home grown" terrorists, they are few and far between thank goodness. All the PQ is doing is looking to gain a majority for the next election so they can then pull the rug from under the population and have the authority to bring in an austerity budget which is going to make them very unpopular among their usual voter base. When this happens and they again demand their money from Ottawa, if they don't get what they want, they will, of course, blame Ottawa for the fact that the province is broke, use Bill 14 and the Quebec Charter of Values to rile up the troops and propose yet another referendum based on their "differences in culture with the ROC". They are putting all their eggs in one basket this time around and hoping for the best.

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    2. On a human level I can understand the hesitance to not want to talk to someone whose face we can't see, it's actually pretty much hard wired into us (see this interesting video on creepiness skip to around the 3 minute mark for covered faces in particular https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEikGKDVsCc) to be uneasy around ambiguity. It is also the only part of the bill that has pretty much majority support and is something the federal government has already legislated and defended in some instances. All of that said I'm still very hesitant to start down the road of removing individual rrights because it makes me slightly uncomfortable to have to interact with, what is probably the only employee in Quebec (if that person does even exist) who wears a face covering for 5 minutes. I mean to a lot of people being served by a burn victim would make them uncomfortable, should that person loose their job? Not quite a 1 to 1 comparison but you get what I'm getting at. Should it be up to them to change who they are, a difficult life long, life changing commitment, or should it be up to us to become more accepting, for the 5 minutes?

      As to the comments about the PQ, pretty much on the money, if you saw the pro charter rally you'd be excused for thinking it was a separation rally instead of a charter rally. Like any good sports team fans a lot of the protesters seem to be motivated more by trying to support the home team (PQ) rather than the legislation itself. The CAQ has offered to compromise on it, just like on Bill 14 and if they are not trying to use both of these in an upcoming election then they are really just acting like a petulant child, if I can't get everything I want I don't want anything.

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    3. Yes, removing rights makes me uncomfortable also. I really don't like it because it's the old slippery slope. Must admit that I have never had to deal with anyone wearing full face covering but I know it would bother me - the rest, as I said, is just stupid. And it certainly did look like a PQ rally rather than a fight for the charter to be passed. They didn't get very many out but I'm sure there were bribes attached to attendance - that's just part of quebec culture! The CAQ, as far as I'm concerned have absolutely no principles - everything the PQ propose they are just fine with, with amendments of course, so they can claim they are doing something - again, fence sitting to see which way the wind blows. God, I wish we had some decent provincial party to vote for!

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    4. The problem lies with beginning to ban things that don't really effect us, but we might find them uncomfortable. Based on polls (http://www.radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/societe/2013/09/23/005-sondage-charte-valeurs-quebecoises-som-web.shtml) the evidence seems to point towards the notion that Quebecers support the charter, not because they agree with the secular sentiment, rather they feel uncomfortable by religious head wear. As much as humans automatically dislike when they can't see someone's face, they also dislike those who are different to them, the out group. Should we really fall prey to these base instincts? Or should we rise above them? To ban something simply because it makes you uncomfortable holds true but both face coverings and head wear. If the majority of people were uncomfortable being served by an African american should we legislate that they could not work in the public service? Or should we hold ourselves to a higher standard of justice than simply what makes us uncomfortable? These is a question everyone needs to ask themselves.

      I can't imagine the PQ paid anything to show up that that rally, ironically they have tried to distance themselves and make it clear they were not connected to the rally in anyway. That probably says a lot about quality of the rally and the message those involved were spouting. There is more speculation that the PQ is going to call an election from the way Pauline is acting more and more like Harper (http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/tight-lipped-marois-creates-election-speculation-1.1467762). Remember when it's election season make sure you don't make any of your positions on anything known! That's how you win votes, how sad and cynical is that? The sad quagmire that is the provincial party selection in this province needs to change, but I don;t think it will any time soon. All we get is a mediocre novelty third party now and then who quickly fade into obscurity when it becomes apparent that they have no substance.

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  4. Excellent posting Editor. And I'll echo thatguy's point. Bernie Drainville, a former so called journalist, only cites one or two trivial examples when asked about why this Charter was needed , the frosted YMCA window panes being his GoTo reason. He then usually warns of, in a foreboding manor, that a failure to nip this accommodation issue in the bud now will lead to fire and brimstone chaos later. A complete and utter fraud. He then goes on to blame the Liberals for, "lacking courage" and sitting on their hands on this issue for 9 years causing it to basically spiral out of control, another fraud. What steams me is that the media lap dogs are soaking this up like a biscuit in a tea cup and are giving the PQ a free ride on the things that really matter, like the economy, failing infrastructure and PS pensions. I understand why Separatist rags like LeDevoir or le JdeM would bite and wade into the debate hip-deep, but even Lapresse and RadCan are being stringed along on this garden path of folly. Reporting on opinion poll results used to be frowned upon, these days it's headline news and has legs for 2-4 days worth of ink. The PQ also uses opinion polls to formulate their policies and aren't being called on it which is a very dangerous precedent.

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  5. Good for you...its all about high paying jobs for the 'french' and nothing else.Show me the money...

    Most French-Canadians have no loyalty or concern for Canada. Never have. Never will. They are the ultimate assimilation fail. They see the country as simply an endless shakedown bonanza. They play the game well. The real question is why the rest of Canada doesn't play tit for tat. Or better yet, move to eject Quebec from the Canadian confederation.

    Slime, sleaze, corruption…it is the french way…Quebec is screwing the rest of the country in any way it can. It milks us dry through equalization, grants, subsidies…and much more…if the public only knew how bad things really were, if they only knew…

    Its all about the money when dealing with the french. In Quebec, Ottawa, NB, Ontario…they are a disgrace to the country, crooked and corrupt to the core...

    Enjoy some real stats for you...more proof of this scam.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lfz3o0bXxfc&hd=1

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZz61S3sTA8





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    1. James Wolfe - Your Kilroy videos are so full of mistruths and distortions that its really pure propoganda in the end. The last video is such bs. I dare you to walk the streets anywhere in Canada and only speak french and tell me how far you will get..and then come walk the streets of Montreal and speak only english. I can guarantee you that you will have NO problem speaking english in Montreal and getting served in english but |I bet that very few people will be able or willing to speak french in the rest of Canada to the francophone.

      Oh and why the assumption that bilingual jobs mean that ONLY francophones can apply for them. You seem to be implying that anglophones are too dumb to learn french or perhaps they are not interested. I know many bilingual anglophones..the real question is why so many francophones are bilingual and so few anglophones are bilingual?? If you really want that cushy government job then just learn french as many french people learn english!!

      The reality is that francophone communities across Canada outside of Quebec have been more or less wiped out over the past 50 years..there are very few areas of Canada where french is still strong..perhaps some parts of eastern Ontarion and parts of New Brunswick and even those areas are struggling. Hence there is a valid reason why french Quebecers are concerned about their language.

      The only thing I do agree with you on is that the Quebec civil service clearly discriminates against anglophones..with only 1 percent working in the civil service. Something needs to be done about this. But all your other comments are total bs.

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    2. This massive obsession francophones have with language that never ends.

      I can;t speak my mothers/grandmothers native language even to say hello. Does that matter to me. Not in the slightest. I'm much more interested in being proficient in english, career, house, food etc.

      Language? That's -100 on the importance list for people.

      Who gives a shit what language people speak as long as they can communicate.

      English has become the defacto universal language around the world. Anglo Quebecers didn;t make that happen, we shouldn;t be punished for it.

      Fighting common sense is another feature of Quebec culture.

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    3. "but |I bet that very few people will be able or willing to speak french in the rest of Canada to the francophone."

      There is a big difference here complicated and worth pointing out so as not to give the impression that the ROC REFUSES to speak french. I have never seen Canadians be rude to anyone that is trying to communicate with them no matter what language they speak. Generally speaking Canadians are polite and helpful to others and I have traveled to many of our other provinces in my lifetime.

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    4. Cutie - The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of Canadians in the ROC do not speak any french hence francophones have to speak english the vast majority of the time. So this fiction that the country is bilingual in the ROC is a total crock. Montreal is bilingual and parts of New Burnswick and a few other parts of Quebec and eastern Ontario but thats it. And by the way the vast majority of Quebecers will speak english to anglophones..I have almost never had a francophone refuse service to me in english here in Montreal. But of course the few times it happens then every media outlet in the countr y talks about it. You think francophones have never been victims of discrimination in the roc.

      My main point is that these stupid Kilroy videos that james wolfe keeps raving about are full of mistruths and deceptive comments. He implies that an anglophone will not be served in english in quebec..he implies that francophones can be served in their language in the rest of canada..total bs. Its much easier being an anglophone in Quebec than a francophone in the rest of Canada. Do you know how many times my francophone friends have not been served in their language in the ROC in federal government institutions..it happens all the time. They often have nobody or one person who is bilingual at customs when you arrive in Canada hence many francophones must speak english. Somehow I think all the anglophones here would be screaming murder if they arrived in Canada and the agent only spoke french to them..I am sure cutie would be.

      There is a clear double standard..its ok for francophones to not be served in their language most of the time but heaven forbid an anglo once in a blue moon is not served in their language.

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    5. cebeuq -

      People do care about their language especially when its one of the two founding languages of this country and one of the two official languages of this country. Francophones are paranoid because their communities have essentially rotted away across Canada for decades. Quebec is the last bastion of french in North America..its a normal reaction to feel threatened and to want to preserve ones language and culture.

      Its very easy for you as an anglophone to say that language does not matter. Of course it doesnt matter to an anglophone because english is not threatened at all..its the universal language.

      My main point was the bs from james wolfes kilroy videos..there is so much misinformation and propoganda that it makes me sick. He implies that one cannot be served in english in Quebec..I am served all the time in Montreal in english. I dare anyone to try and get served in french in the roc..it wont happen 90 percent of the time. I hear english all the time in Montreal..there are english media stations, english hospitals, english schools, english colleges/universities and on and on. And all the bs about francophones taking anglos jobs in the federal government...its because there arent enough anglophones who bother learning french..whose fault is that? The francophones learn english so they get the cushy government jobs.

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    6. You think francophones have never been victims of discrimination in the roc.

      Again complicated, I will point out that this is not discrimination - it is simply a matter of numbers - the majority of the ROC are English speaking. There is a huge difference of being "discriminated against" vs the ability of others to speak the language. Here in quebec, anglophones are deliberately discriminated against by the provincial government whereas in the ROC it is strictly a matter of not knowing the other language. This is not a deliberate slight on the part of the ROC and 99% of the time, they have been very understanding of quebec's desire to retain their language and their culture. It's only when the separatists complain about EVERYTHING ALL THE TIME - that the rest of the country gets pissed off. It just never seems to end: the whining, complaining, fighting, selfishness, total lack of a desire to work towards solutions rather than blocking every damn thing that is brought to the forefront of the countries problems. It's always them vs us and that is what pisses people off. They should try cooperating once in awhile and maybe they would find that the country would be even more understanding.

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    7. Also complicated, take a gander at IF website and see how they complain to the federal government about how few jobs there are for unilingual francophones but fail to mention how few even bilingual anglophones there are working for the provincial government. Just another example of ME ME ME all the time when talking to these misfits. I can see where James Wolfe is coming from some of the time.

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    8. Complicated,

      My natural language is the language of my parents and that's not english.

      Really tho it doesn;t matter.

      Language is simply a way of communicating. All this nonsense about culture is simply fabricated feel good.

      What other "culture" obsesses about itself 24x7x365 in thew world? Almost none. It's a particular thing in France and Quebec.

      Quebecers claim it's because they are being "squashed". What fucking nonsense.

      The rest of the world is interested in progress, jobs, living their lives.

      The problem with the PQ is they are after little PQ clones that all think like little socialists.

      Language is simply cover for ethnic purity that we see with charter of values.

      What language somebody speaks is not important at all.

      What's important is having freedom, food, shelter and education.

      Quebec's obsession with language as an "end in itself" is out to lunch to the rest of the world. It's just endless navel glazing.

      The reality is somebody that speaks french but keeps all the rest of his "anglo" views is no more likely to fit or be accepted in Quebec then the anglo that doesn;t speak french.

      It's the attitudes and values behind francophone PQ that are the real problem.

      Small minded, petty, socialists that are throwbacks to 80 years ago.

      That's the true values of Quebcers that they want to preserve.

      Yet at the end of the day "Quebec" still means "meeting of the two rivers" in cree etc. Somehow francophones get confused and think Quebec means "fracophone homeland" instead of seeing themselves as nothing more then colonizers.

      So it's ok to colonize and crush the native culture hundreds of years ago, but somehow now all the rules need to change once the francophones feel insecure.

      Delete
    9. My point from the beginning was against the propoganda in the Kilroy videos that james wolfe keeps posting here. Then you come on and start ranting about how dare Quebecers care about their language?

      Many people and cultures around the world are concerned about protecting their language and culture. Yes I agree that the PQ and a good third of quebecois are overly obsessive about their language at the expense of other issues that are important..notably the economy. I have railed against their pathetic performance on economic issues many many times.

      But I cant stand any sort of misinformation and deceptive statements and the kilroy videos are full of them. If someone from another country only looked at his videos and read many of the comments on this forum you would think that one would NEVER get served in english in Quebec..that you would be generally mocked for speaking in english..that francophones get served all the time in the ROC in french. The reality is that people get served in english all the time in Quebec..even the provincial government of Quebec serves people in english. I have lived in Montreal for over 10 years and have only a handful of times been refused service in english out of the thousands of times I have dealt with businesses and the government. In fact I have always been served in english by the provincial government. So lets stop the incredible paranoia and lies that so many tell here. There is still a lot of english being spoken in Montreal and many other parts of southern Quebec.
      The problem is that the english media and many angryphones are so paranoid that they make sure that every incident against an anglophone is immediately broadcast to the world.

      And once again good luck if you are a francophone in the ROC.,.even getting served by the federal government in french. And you know what, the vast majority of francophones in the ROC just deal with it and speak english..they dont stomp their feet up and down everytime they need to speak english. However it seems most anglophones..especially the ones on this forum have a flipping attack if they once in awhile need to speak french here in Quebec. Who really are the most worried about their language..the seperatist francophones in Quebec or the angryphones in Quebec..honestly I cant tell which group is more out of touch with reality.

      You say that francophones are the only ones obsessed about language cebeuq..it seems that many angryphones are as obsessed.


      Delete
  6. Ladies and Gentlemen,
    Here the real identity of our S.R. (http://www.vigile.net/Du-Pastagate-au-Baingate)

    Du Pastagate au Baingate
    5 juin 2013, par Sylvain Racine
    Il y en a des centaines de "Bain" en devenir au Québec.

    http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...

    La Sûreté du Québec devrait se pencher sur le cas "Cutie003" qui est très actif-ve sur le site nodogsoranglophones.blogspot.com

    ReplyDelete
  7. My bad...forgot his masterpieces:

    http://www.vigile.net/_Racine-Sylvain_?debut_articles=30

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I responded to this earlier but my post disappeared for some reason. SR pointed the above out when it first appeared and I was shocked to see that a couple of my comments were distorted by that stupid news rag. It was as if I belonged to some anglo militia or something. They are so stupid - taking some of my comments and making it seem like I was part of some conspiracy with Bain to commit the murder of Miss Piggy - what an imagination these idiots have - lol. Talk about extremists!

      Delete
    2. Cutie, as anglophone you are part of a conspiracy to destroy the perfect culture of PQ Quebec.

      Your very existence within the borders of Quebec, using over 6.5% English words per day is an affront and insult to the native people of Quebec.

      By native people of Quebec, I refer to indigenous francophone and our cultural heritage. The "sauvages" here before didnt; have any culture to speak of.

      As you know, francophones brought the first "culture" in Quebec.

      It's hard to be an invader when you arn;t replacing anything. Wink wink.

      Delete
    3. I guess I will never be part of quebec culture - after all, I worked for 35 years, am on pension now and not welfare or EI. That alone excludes me from quebec culture so I don't know where I go from here!

      Delete
  8. Pourriez-vous vous concentrer sur le sujet du jour s.v.p?

    Merci!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Now what was that you wrote to me last week? Obtuse Hillbilly Square Head?

      je me souviens aussi !

      Delete
    2. Oui mais je ne parlais pas des Américains mais bien des canayens :)

      Delete
  9. M.Editor ce n'et pas "Regis Lebaeume" mais bien Regis Labeaume

    ReplyDelete
  10. Quebec Puppy Mill Capital of Canada

    http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/video?playlistId=1.1466793

    Interview with Arthur Newman, United Kettle Club of Montreal with CTV Montreal.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No surprise at all....it treats its animals like the rest of Canada...show me the money...truly pathetic that this is allowed to continue...just sick!!!

      Delete
    2. As Mr. Newman said, the police don't enforce the few laws they do have to protect these poor critters from being abused by some of the sickest people in society. Everything is money James; have to agree with you on that one.

      Delete
    3. I have to disagree with you, Cutie. It's just that when it comes to enforcing Bill 101, the Quebec government will hurry up to prosecute, but when it involves puppies, their is no hurry. What wrong with a society like Quebec? How can such abuse be tolerated?

      Delete
    4. Well Liam I think that the people that run these puppy mills pay off the authorities to leave them alone. Besides, it's more fun to pick on anglophones - we make better targets. Everything in quebec is based on bribes and collusion - we all know that.

      Delete
  11. "Bernard Landry says: the province is not and should not be multicultural"

    Perhaps..BUT MONTREAL IS...deal with it otherwise cut us loose.

    Montreal City-State!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Seems to be a very popular idea AnecTOTE - I hope it works out for you guys - I hope it works out for all of us to get away from the crazies and spend the rest of our lives trying to bring these areas back to where they were before the PQ ruined everything.

      Delete
    2. Cutie..guess where I was today? In your neck of the woods...then I crosses the bridge and I was in Ottawa!!! I wanted to stop and take a picture of The Parliament, it was awesome!. Once Montreal manages to loose these losers, it should be a walk in the park for the other regions!

      Delete
    3. Yes Ottawa is a very nice city. Hope you had a good time! I cross the bridge at least two to three times a week and do as little shopping here as I can. My small way of showing that I'm sick to death of these people that insist on ruining our economy as well as their own. I can't see any way that they would be able to keep this area in quebec should separation take place. This whole place is economically dependent on the public service of CANADA to keep it alive and most of the buildings are owned by the feds as well as a lot of the land. I just wish we could get out now and not wait until it's forced on the government to let us leave quebec. Your movement is really getting a lot of backers and even SR says he doesn't want Montreal = let it go and then the rest of us can get out also. Would be a nice headline in the newspapers one of these days!

      Delete
    4. Well actually Cutie, Ottawa has been attracting high tech jobs for a while now. It's even in Ontario Technology Corridor. (http://www.ontariotechnologycorridor.com) With the cuts in the federal service, we need all the jobs we can get. Their are big player like Corel and Mitel, but also smaller player like Ottawa-based Magmic a homegrown Ontario success story. A developer and publisher of mobile games, apps and entertainment that include Texas Hold ‘em King Live, The New York Times Crosswords, Phase 10 and Ka-Glom!, in 2012 Magmic plans to double game production of 10-15 titles per year, and add 20 per cent to its 55-employee staff as it extends its reach across mobile platforms like iOS, BlackBerry, Android, and Java. 2.2 million unique users play Magmic games every month, the equivalent of 750 years of monthly play.

      Most of those jobs won't be coming to Hull because those jobs require English. While many are attracted with the tax credit offered by the Quebec government, many don't stay because of the red tape imposed the provincial government including Bill 101. To quote the founder of one those high tech jobs that left Ottawa for Gatineau and returned to Ottawa: "The amount of dealings we had with the bureaucratic elements are gone, and that was certainly an issue (in Quebec)," he says."If we had to stay and deal with the language police and the number of other (financial) barriers, it would have crippled the business."

      Delete
    5. Another good reason to get out from under the control of the quebec provincial government. We would be so much better off if we were officially part of the National Capital Region!

      Delete
  12. What a bunch of losers - get the welfare people out to support the charter - who's surprised?
    http://www.journaldemourreal.com/des-centaines-dassistes-sociaux-manifestent-leur-appui-a-la-charte/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Cutie, I love you - please re-check the URL again.

      This is absolutely hilarious!

      Delete
    2. Holy shit!!!

      I can't stop laughing! This site is awesome!

      http://www.journaldemourreal.com/une-libellule-gigantesque-decouverte-pres-de-fukushima/

      Hahahahha!

      Delete
    3. Seriously, you can;t make this stuff up.

      There is a back story here. Homeless people don;t pretest for anything except food and shelter unless there are $20's taped to the back.

      Delete
    4. Are we going to be quoting stories from "The Onion" or "The Daily Show" next? I mean, the 'article' describing Mourani's fatwa-pronouncing press conference is hilarious, but seriously, Cutie, you're doing no one any favors by linking in all seriousness to this patently satirical website.

      Delete
    5. Sorry - my bad - as I don't speak french, I was unaware that this was a satirical website. Didn't check it thoroughly enough I'm afraid.

      Delete
    6. Yeah, I love that website. Journal de Mourreal is the Onion from Quebec.

      Delete
    7. @Liam, when I saw that old lady in the upper right hand side with the caption "Enfin, un journal qui parle des vras affaires!" I thought I was going to piss myself.

      Cutie, please forgive me, but I still can't believe you bought into that one. :-)

      Gotta love the "sodomy" and "bestiality" sections in the "sexuality" category.

      Delete
    8. @Calgarian:

      I find the Journal de Mourreal to be more factual than the Journal de Montreal, though...

      LMAO

      Delete
    9. Only read one headline I'm afraid but at least some of you had a few laughs and maybe we need that once in awhile living here!

      Delete
  13. I am skeptical that enough Montrealers will have the political will to organise a drive to secede the city of Montreal (and possibly the whole island) away from Quebec to become Canada's 11th province. If you do so, your Quebec neighbours will want to know why you're doing this. You might want to consider this as a template:

    http://olivier.hammam.free.fr/imports/fondements/1776-usa-decl-indep.htm

    P.S. Ironically, one of the "intolerable acts" cited in the U.S. Declaration was the Quebec Act.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Montrealer's unfortunately don;t have much common sense for anything.

      If we did, we'd demand construction 24x7x365 to fix our road in downtown Montreal.

      Real cities have work crews 3 shifts per day on all sites. Not this Quebec nonsense.

      As we say in english... "working hard or hardly working".

      We have so many issues we really actually need to deal with.

      Look at Montreal municipal govt. If that is a proxy for anything it's a scary world we have here.

      We voted Tremblay in how many times? He was the strongest among a slate of second rate scammers.

      Montreal is in this mess because it's never able to express itself or get any political capital" behind it.

      It's not as easy as picking out some ethnically pure child to represent your race on a few posters.

      Delete
    2. As one of my francophone friends told me: the difference between the English and French is that the English live to work and the French work to live. Perhaps she had something there - there does seem to be a difference in attitude towards work and how to spend free time.

      Delete
    3. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTTuesday, September 24, 2013 at 12:29:00 PM EDT

      @cutie:
      "As one of my francophone friends told me"

      Really? YOU have franco friends???? Do you refer to them as losers, welfare recipients and racists every two minutes? Do they speak to you in english? Are they PQ members?

      Delete
  14. http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Montreal+auditor+general+voices+doubts+about+Bixi+agency/8948800/story.html

    Just imagine the scams and fraud that are being perpetuated behind the scenes at bixi we will never find out about.

    All the "Quebec" companies that benefit from selling overpriced parts and saddling the debt and development costs on the public while the companies making the parts are capturing all the profit.

    Imagine the city of montreal (the most corrupt city in north america, and almost bankrupt) is in the game of financing Chicago, NY etc to buy Bixi bikes.

    Total insanity. Makes absolutely no business or logical sense. The city of Mtl should be sued to keep them out of this mess.

    It's typical Quebec business boondoggle.

    Bixi is the worst run system ever. $8000 bikes? Only a transfer of wealth to certain "special" companies.

    The city of monteral could have easily called up "Dorel" and bought bikes for $125 each in bright orange and given them out for free.

    We would have enough free bikes for the entire island of montreal and we wouldn;t need paid union employee's trucks driving around moving bikes uphill for lazy every day.

    $150 bikes vs $8000 bikes.

    Only in Quebec and Montreal. Where EVERYTHING is a scam once you turn it over.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Just to put it into perspective.

      The city of montreal could have bought and paid for as a ONE TIME TRANSACTION (instead of this YEARLY ONGOING boondoggle) with $39 million dollars 156 000 bikes at $250 each.

      This year alone Bixi will be getting $10 million more. That's another 40 000 bikes this year that they could give out for free to the citizens of montreal.

      Instead that $10 million this year is just wasted as more operating costs to pay Quebec companies to expand and push their wares in other countries and cities.

      We the public are being saddled with ALL of the developmental and marketing costs for bikes where the profit is captured by others.

      All this and we get left with a $7 for 20 minutes to use the bike. Total insanity and francophone Quebecers (the only ones in the civil service of 98% white francophones) just keep pushing the project forward despite it being a failure in every measurable way.

      Instead of admitting a mistake we just keep doubling down. Exactly like we did with the Olympic Stadium. Common sense would have said we knock it down 20 years ago and chalk it up to bad everything. Instead we are being prepared for yet another overpriced roof.

      Nobody uses the place. Give the millions in new roof money directly to the mob/construction/unions and save us on the construction cost overruns, traffic and roof that won;t work anyway.

      Delete
    2. The Olympic Stadium is a typical Quebecois boondoggle of epic proportion. It cost 1 billion and it doesn't even work. For crying out loud, it will cost 500 million just to repair the damn roof! That is about the same cost it cost for Skydome in Toronto, and it's roof works. Typical Quebecois boondoggle! Why can't we get rid of it.

      Delete
    3. Liam,

      We don;t want it to work or last. That way the companies and "engineering firms" involved can get more frequent sales and make more money.

      Quebec doesn;t care if the building sits empty for another 100 years. The only goal is to make sure they can pass out expensive contracts to their "friends". what the building is used for is immaterial.

      Montreal isn;t run for the citizens. It's run for the politicians and insiders.

      Delete
  15. Everything's fine...We are the richest province in the world (money and jobs for everybody...we could replace Switzerland and become a country):

    http://affaires.lapresse.ca/economie/quebec/201309/24/01-4692604-le-cpq-sinquiete-de-la-situation-economique-du-quebec.php

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. NewCA,

      That's just Quebec bashing. Everything here is almost perfect.

      If we could just kick out all the anglo's and immigrants finally we would be free to hold a 24x7x365 francophonie festival to celebrate our catholic roots in our secular society.

      Quebec companies can;t get much private investment or any local entrepreneurialism.

      That's why Bixi had to be started by the govt. nobody starts and grows a successful business in Quebec unless the money comes from the govt. IE construction.


      "
      The gross domestic product per capita is lower (25%) in Quebec, as the average salary (16%), the employment rate (4 percent) the level of productivity (5.4%), housing construction (18%) and the private investment rate (10.5%)
      "

      Delete
  16. You are right, sorry...As student, S.R. (Mr. Sylvain R.) and the Schwachkopf in Frankfurt say, "You hate us, so dégage".

    ReplyDelete
  17. New pro-secularism coalition backs Charter of Quebec Values – except for National Assembly crucifix

    Group wants it moved to another area of parliament

    http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/secularism+coalition+backs+Charter+Quebec+Values+except/8952157/story.html

    wow!L'union fait la force

    ReplyDelete
  18. Quebec Values Charter: Retired Supreme Court Judge Claire L'Heureux-Dube Backs Controversial Plan

    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/09/24/quebec-values-charter-supreme-court-judge_n_3983466.html?ir=Canada+Politics&utm_campaign=092413&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Alert-canada-politics&utm_content=Photo

    Des membres de calibre...Hmm excllent!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Both links are on the same story, not sure why it's necessary for two links.

      All of these people have already come out in favour of a secular charter (not the PQ's charter even they think it's completely hypocritical), not sure why they think calling themselves a coalition is supposed to give more credence beyond what their individual members have already said, nor do see how this is news. The SSJB society and other groups did the same thing for bill 14, no one really cared then either.

      I can understand why L'Heureux-Dube avoided the actual event, I'm not sure I'd want to be on stage with someone saying something like this "It's like the flag they want their women to wear. They represent fundamentalism... Even if they say, and they keep saying, 'It's my choice,' they forget to say this is the only choice they have." either. Clearly Mrs. Bensalem, knows better about the reasons Muslim women wear hijabs than Muslim women, and feels perfectly justified in completely ignoring them.

      Delete
    2. "It's like the flag they want their women to wear"

      Parfois ce sont des ceintures d'explosifs...Les femmes sont très utiles chez les musulmans.

      Delete
    3. So your reply is just pure bigotry? To compare a hijab to a suicide vest, and then to top it off by generalizing that Muslims often "use" their women? That's low even for you.

      Delete
    4. Via Rail: Chiheb Esseghaier refuse d'être menotté par une femme

      http://tinyurl.com/odak82b

      Isshhh

      Delete
  19. Barbarians.

    Event organizers getting paid to stage firghts with 12 year olds.

    Only in Quebec.

    First Quebec tells children what language to speak
    then they tell us what to wear

    Now in the latest twist to good Quebec parenting we let 12 year old's fight in the "thunderdome".

    No wonder SR turned out like he did. His culture sponsors fights between 12 year olds and thinks it's normal.

    No wonder they think it's ok to have puppy mills, bill 101 and other shit.

    Logic developed by people dropped on their head as bobbies.



    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-hosts-amateur-mma-bouts-banned-elsewhere-in-canada-1.1866511



    """
    “Sometimes we have 12-year-old kids fighting in a cage, punching each other in the face, so here it's allowed to have exhibition fights with kids. And some people have a problem with that. I mean, two kids are fighting each other in a cage in front of like 5,000 people. In other provinces, sometimes they don't allow that,” Plante continues.

    According to Plante, fights can be violent and potentially dangerous. He says they're sanctioned by a group that is not recognized by the government.
    """

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Les hommes musulmans très adultes les marient (contre leur gré) pour les mettre en "cage" par la suite...Toute leur vie,pauvres fillettes.

      Barbares vous dites?

      Delete
    2. Do you even know any Muslims? If you did, you would know they are dedicated and devoted to their family and friends. AND they are generous to a fault. They would literally take the shirt off their backs to help you. How many people do you know in your immediate vicinity who would drop anything on a dime to come to your rescue? Yes...extremist exist in every facet of society, in every community...just look at your own and the PQ zealots...it would be a pity for you to cross-over this world not having understood a bloody thing in Life. What a waste of an existence.

      Delete
    3. I say we give S.R.s real name and a copy of all these racist ignorant posts to one of the extremist Muslim groups in Toronto. You know like he wanted to do with Cutie giving her name to Miss Piggys friends. Then we will see how he talks? Esau to talk all that nonsense here but if he was confronted he would start crying in wet his pants, guaranteed

      Delete
    4. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTTuesday, September 24, 2013 at 9:55:00 PM EDT

      @YankinParis:

      You are nonsense.

      Delete
    5. One liner and mocking name.

      Delete
  20. cebeuq = is that not disgusting? My 40 year old son watches these cage events on pay TV and I don't get the thrill of it at all but at least he's watching men that have decided that this is how they want to make their living. I would never let my child get involved in that but as you say, quebec culture.

    ReplyDelete
  21. L'UPAC a rencontré la directrice générale du PLQ

    http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/quebec/388275/l-upac-a-rencontre-l-ex-responsable-du-financement-du-plq

    Trois fois en deux mois!

    ReplyDelete
  22. La Belgique bientôt un état islamique

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QTisdsrDgE

    Bientôt dans une circonscription près de chez-vous?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTTuesday, September 24, 2013 at 8:32:00 PM EDT

      Quelle surprise!!!
      BTW sur yahoo news, la majorite des commentaires des anglos sont favorables a la Charte des valeurs.
      http://ca.news.yahoo.com/parti-quebecois-religion-plan-gets-support-retired-supreme-180249338.html

      J'imagine que les gens ici sont tres racistes car ils veulent un Quebec anglo. C'est eux les intolerants.

      Delete
    2. I love me I hate me I love me I hate me I love me I hate me I love me I hate me.....LOLOLOLOLOL
      Call us when u figure it out.

      Delete
    3. I'm confused as to why scientists or governments even use polls or studies, I mean un gars has found the answer to finding definite conclusions as to what people think! Random internet comments sections responses, why did anyone else think of that?!

      Then to top it all off by calling everyone on the board racists, completely out of the blue, I think un gars has finally graduated to full fledged troll.

      Delete
    4. Je crois qu'il voulait dire raciste envers les Québécois.

      Delete
    5. How does that not make him call everyone on the board racist? Oh he's just saying everyone is racist against Quebecois, he isn't saying everyone on the board is racist. SR "logic" at it's finest.

      Delete
  23. Les "liberals" et les "muslims" ont tès mauvaise presse ces temps-ci et les deux ont ceci en commun : Ils n'aiment pas qu'on lève le voile.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Found this on CJAD. What the hell is this province turning into?

    SSJB launches mobile app to fight English in stores
    Posted By: Richard Deschamps richard.deschamps@cjad.com · 9/25/2013 1:15:00 PM

    If you've ever wanted to know which stores and businesses in town are considered "franco-responsible" — well, there's an app for that.

    Montreal's Société St-Jean-Baptiste has launched a mobile app called "Moi, j'achète en français", which indentifies businesses the group says does its business in French.

    The app will also allow people to rate a particular business, on a scale of 1 to 10, as to the quality of its French-language services.

    There's also a corresponding Facebook group, where people can post messages.

    The group says 54 per cent of Montreal customers will speak English when addressed in English. The group's president, Mario Beaulieu, wants to change that.

    ReplyDelete