Drainville's Master Plan to Eliminate Religion
There's a lot being said and printed over the subject of the proposed ban on religious wear here in Quebec, across Canada and around the world.
There's not much I can add that you haven't heard before, but I do remain surprised that nobody picked up on an exchange between Bernard Drainville and a reporter during his news conference.
The reporter asked whether these changes could apply to private industry and Drainville responded that he hoped so.
He told the reporter that many businesses were telling him that they wanted this type of legislation to apply to their workers.
Surprisingly, or not surprisingly, Drainville suggested that companies form policies based on the new rules for government workers.
What the minister let slip, is that it is his belief that secularism includes both the public and private sectors, elevating the debate to a whole new level.
Quebec Makes news around the world
Quebec Calls for Ban on Wearing Symbols of Faith New York Times
Quebec mulls religious head wear ban for public workers BBC (UK)
Jai.TV
Quebec: Ban Religious Headwear in Government Jobs ABC (US)
Quebec Government Proposes Ban on Religious Symbols Wall Street Journal
Quebec seeks to ban public workers from wearing religious symbols Reuters
Quebec Muslims slam proposed ban on religious headwear Al Jazeera (US)
Quebec quiere proscribir los signos religiosos en el sector público camineo.info (It)
Quebec prohibirá uso de símbolos religiosos en vida pública HispanTV
קוויבק אומרת "לא" לכיפה ולחיג'אב (Quebec says "no" kippa and hijab) Israel
Kanadyjski Quebec chce zakazać noszenia symboli religijnych Poland
Québec: un projet de loi pour interdire les signes religieux Tunisia
كيبيك الكندية تقترب من حظر النقاب BBC ArabicThere are stories all over the world concerning the religious ban, but this one from Poland was perhaps the strangest ;
Québec wil geen tulband of keppel zien Netherlands
Канада: Квебек готов запретить религиозные символы Russia
Zakaz noszenia krzyży zasłoną dymną dla eutanazji?
(Ban on wearing crosses a smokescreen for euthanasia?)
Charter debate claims first victim
"The debate is open now. People have the right to express themselves.... But I hope the debate will be done as serenely as possible.-Pauline Marois
Really? Perhaps Marois should reach for inspiration from Frank Costanza of Seinfeld fame, in repeating the mantra "Serenity Now"
Maria Mourani, an African-born Montrealer of Lebanese descent who wears a crucifix, had blasted Premier Pauline Marois' plans to bar all Quebec public servants from wearing religious symbols.
Mourani said the measure would divide Quebecers, as well as the sovereignty movement. Read the rest of the story
By the way, the comments under the story of her removal in the Journal de Montreal are very telling.
90% were furious about it, even those in favour of the legislation.
"I do not agree with Ms. Mourani, because I support the charter of secularism. But this lady is entitled to her opinion. Even within a political party, a member should be able to issue a dissenting opinion without being deported, it's called democracy.
Party member tweets his reaction to exclusion.
The Bloc leader is acting as an Iman forcing their members to practice the doctrine: "Do this and you will live"
Now we clearly see the drastic methods of the PQ that will come after a referendum and how they will reign when they have their own country, a dictatorship of oppressive laws over freedom of speech or religious belief, becoming a worse banana republic than Cuba ....Mr. Paillé, head of the Bloc Quebecois is going to get roasted by the press and even his own supporters. It's always fun to see a major political blunder up close and personal and I wouldn't be surprised that once the gravity of the error sets in, he'll be eating a double portion of humble pie, begging Mourani to return to the fold.
The worst part of this story is that she did not speak against her own party but rather against the PQ project!
Is the Bloc under the command of Her Majesty the PM?
Lily-white Public service backs Charter
I guess it's no big surprise that the 42,000 strong union representing public employees leapt to the defense of the proposed charter.The incestuousness relationship between the union and the PQ is a case of one hand washing the other.
"The SFPQ union, which has 42,000 members, applauds the government for "finally" tabling a policy that would ensure the religious neutrality of government offices.But the union must be one of the most ethnically pure in the world, with less than 2% visible minorities and the rest white Catholic francophones.
The PQ plan would forbid Quebec's public employees from wearing more visible religious symbols -- including hijabs, turbans, yarmulkes and larger-than-average crucifixes.
"We're obliged to keep our political opinions to ourselves," union president Lucie Martineau said Wednesday.
"We want that extended to our religious opinions."
Other unions have said they plan to consult members before taking a public position." Link
I guess the union wants to keep it that way.
So how many hijab-wearing members actually work for the union? Forget about kippahs and turbans, I'd venture there are none of those.
When asked how many members wear the hijab, the union leaders were stumped.
So let's take a stab at it for giggles.
42,000 union members divided by 1.8 % who are visible minorities= 738
738 members multiplied by 60% (eliminating the men) = 442
442 divided by those visible minorities who are not Muslim (66%) = 176
Percentage of Muslim union members who wear a hijab (10%) = 17
Now the numbers above are guess work, but you can you see that not many SFPQ union members wear the hijab.
This is what all the fuss is about.
Perhaps Quebecers should better consider this well documented fact;
“In 1980, recent immigrant men who had some employment income earned 85 cents for each dollar received by Canadian-born men. By 2005, the ratio had dropped to 63 cents. The corresponding numbers for recent immigrant women were 85 cents and 56 cents, respectively.” Link
Animal Cruelty piece generates accusations of Quebec-bashing
I received a few emails about the blog piece entitled Is Animal Cruelty Part of Quebec Values?accusing me of Quebec bashing.
I don't usually respond but I did leave out a few things in that piece that I should have mentioned.
All this is in response to a woman who started an online petition asking Kijiji to stop advertising pet sales because many unscrupulous puppy mills were using the service.
The petition has already garnered over 50,000 signatures
Read the story
Sign the petition
In my defense of calling animal abuse a particular Quebec value, I am going to excerpt an article by Gilles Proulx, in which he actually goes farther than me.
"There is a value that the vast majority of "Anglos" would be happy to see included on the docket of the Quebec Parliament when it resumes sitting. I want to talk about respect for animals and the need to end impunity for torturers of animals that Quebec does almost nothing about, dishing out punishment not worthy of the name. My brave Golden, Romeo and I will be attending the March 4 legs organized by the SPCA on Sunday, September 8 , on Mount Royal, to remind the Deputy Prime Minister François Gendron it is time to put the love of animals on the agenda. We should be ashamed and live up to the example of the neighboring provinces in the treatment of animals because we Quebecers are always the last in the class. Even within Quebec, an inordinate proportion of Anglophones stand above us and sometimes volunteer at their own expense in charitable organizations for our animals....
.....In recent months, Quebec has further illustrated itself as a dunce in the treatment of animals. Many horrific crimes or negligence have blackened the pages of this Journal. Remember those patients who drowned their pit bull by placing weights around its neck. Not to mention that maniac who probably thought himself manly for strafing nails into the skull of another poor animal. In October, there was the case of Black Jack, a horse pulling a carriage in the Old Port which fell down due to dehydration and exhaustion because he was kept at work for twelve hours a day. Rescued by good Samaritans, Black Jack will end his days in a rural landscape of Lac Saint-Jean. Fortunately, the story was about him. As for the exploiter who almost killed this noble animal, don't worry: The justice system is not going to take notice. This is Quebec." Read the entire story in FrenchWho's Quebec-bashing now?
Is Mr. Proulx perhaps mellowing?
FULL DISCLOSURE.
I bought my puppy through Kijiji, a special non-shedding Jack Russell Terrier which was hard to find.
I drove to St-Hyacinthe and met the young couple who bred dogs as a family income supplement.
There was so much love for the dogs in their home and such happy and bouncy dogs, we immediately fell in love with the runt of the litter.
Before the couple turned the puppy over to us, they asked us a million questions about our background, the conditions that the dog would face and our record as dog owners.
We made a deal and Brody has been with us for six years, a delightful companion, rakishly handsome and intelligent and loving. He hasn't a mean bone in his body and has never bitten or snarled.
Had conditions been less than acceptable at the breeders, we would have fled.
But not everybody on Kijiji is a scam artist....just saying.
McGill University sinking like a lead balloon.
....McGill — long considered the Harvard of the north — has been slipping in some recent rankings, such as the World Reputation Rankings and the 2012 Times Higher Education world rankings.
.....Danny Byrne, editor of topuniversities.com, which publishes the QS rankings, said when they asked 62,000 academics around the world which universities are leaders in research, U of T “did brilliantly,” ranking 13th compared to 31st for McGill"
Hate to say it.....but told you so....
EI contribution freeze, a political move meant to freeze Quebec out
"Employers and workers will get a small break over the next three years as the Conservative government freezes employment insurance premiums at the current level.
Planned rate increases are no longer necessary because the separate account through which the government manages the fund is looking healthier than it did a few years ago, Finance Minister Jim Flaherty said Monday.
Finance Department staff estimated the freeze will save businesses and workers $660 million next year, something that Flaherty believes will give employers the flexibility to hire more staff. Link
The news behind the story is that the Conservatives are applying more political pressure on Quebec which has been making noises about repatriating the Employment Insurance fund to its own jurisdiction. The idea is utterly ridiculous and a complete nonstarter, because Quebecers take almost twice as much out of the fund as they put in.
Now in the past, when the fund piled up a huge surplus, the federal government just scooped it up and transferred it to the general fund.
Harper is not going to let this happen as Quebec will scream about the surplus being 'robbed' from the fund, instead of paying lazy Gaspesians.
....and in another installment of 'Payback's a bitch '
"Quebec business and labour groups have flooded the Finance Department with demands to save a tax credit the Harper government plans to kill.Game, set and match, Mr. Harper
The spring budget announced the pending demise of a 15 per cent tax credit for investments in Labour Sponsored Venture Capital Corporations.....
The union-backed mutual funds are focused on helping small and medium-size firms create jobs.
The program, costing the federal treasury about $140 million a year, is wildly popular in Quebec where about 88 per cent of the tax credit is claimed.
....It’s a success story, especially in Quebec,” New Democrat labour critic Alexandre Boulerice said in an interview, adding the funds have supported 600,000 jobs in the province while helping people save for retirement.
“If it’s not broken, don’t fix it.”
But the federal government says the funds are not working, with poor investment returns, weak accountability and dubious ability to raise fresh venture capital. Read the whole story
Odds'n Ends
Cruising the vigile.net website I clicked on a link to Louis Prefontaine's www.louisprefontaine.comNow Louis hasn't been blogging for a while but I think he should have coughed up the $8 a year to keep his domain from lapsing.
It seems that a Japanese hair removal seller has scooped up the domain, although why, I cannot fathom.
*************
Here's two rather contradictory headlines that I saw on the same day.
"Pipeline would bring $ 6.3 billion to Quebec's GDP " Journal de Montreal {fr}
"Enbridge project unprofitable and highly damaging" La Presse {fr}
*************
A constant source of amusement here in Quebec are Google translation gaffes.
Even the RCMP has committed the faux pas of using the utterly unreliable, but free translation service.
So it's no wonder that cheapskate Walmart got caught with a doozy, when it translated dumbbell (weightlifting equipment) as 'imbecile' Link
Ha! Ha!
Idiot PQ quote of the Week
"Off the top, Health Minister Réjean Hébert was asked whether he fears nurses or medical personnel could be lost or might quit over new rules prohibiting them from wearing conspicuous religious items.
Hébert dismissed the idea as fear mongering.
“We saw the same reaction in the debate leading up to Bill 101,” Hébert said on his way into a meeting of the cabinet. “And the anticipated exodus did not happen. So I am not worried.” Link
Interesting letter to the editor
I've translated this letter to the editor that I found in the Journal du Quebec.
If you read French, do the author the courtesy of reading it HERE
"As to the Quebec Charter of values, and to a lesser degree, questions about the teaching of history to young Quebecers, I am still amazed that the Battle of the Plains of Abraham in 1759 is still perceived today as the decisive moment of the British victory over the French.
In early 1758, William Pitt convinced the British government to invest large sums of money to finance the armada that appeared before Quebec in June 1759 with the very objective to expel the French from North America. Meanwhile, in France, by the middle of 1758, the loss of New France was already a foregone conclusion.
Some people like to raise the specter of Lord Durham assimilation after the French conquest. However, the fact to retain is that the British gave to the French who decided to stay in Quebec, freedom of religion, Catholicism, and the French language .
If, by some miracle, the French had resisted the British invaders in 1759, it is unlikely that the miracle would be repeated during the attempted invasion by the Americans at Quebec in 1775. The attack was repulsed by the British, supported by the remaining French Canadians. New France had long been forgotten by its motherland by 1812, when the British scored a victory against the Americans in the Niagara region.
Quebec today is largely French today thanks to the British.
François Vézina
Ontario Hospital set to poach medical staff
"A hospital in Ontario is trying to appeal to medical students in Quebec with an attention-grabbing new recruitment ad.
Lakeridge Health Oshawa’s new campaign, to be featured next week in The McGill Daily
school newspaper, is already a social media success.It depicts a woman
wearing a pink hijab, lab coat and stethoscope with the slogan, “We
don’t care what’s on your head, we care what’s in it.”" Link
My personal favourite of this whole medley of stories is the one about the potential poaching medical staff right out of Quebec. Why not?
ReplyDeleteThe very last thing Quebec needs is to lose more doctors and nurses. The shortage of medical staff has been in a crisis state for years already in Quebec, so why shouldn't the government, with this issue at full boil already, turn up the heat even more? I'd relish and with wide-open arms welcome their arrival in Ontario.
More importantly, I have been brought to mind of the late pastor Martin Niemöller's old poem and its many variations, entitled First they came...
Going on 40 years ago, the pur laine attacked my mother tongue and have now wormed their way down to attacking my religion.
In a disturbing correlation, let's look at what has happened to the PQ between 1976 and 2013:
(1) When they were first elected in 1976, the PQ was made up of a cabinet of people with education at universities such as Harvard, Cambridge, MIT, Columbia, London School of Economics, U of Philadelphia, Boston Hospital and a host of other renowned schools of higher learning;
(2) On the night of May 20, 1980, René Lévesque, indubitably disappointed, gave a consoling concession speech about "the next time", some in the crowd cried, sang «Gens de payee» and went back to work the next day, disappointed, but only marginally bitter;
(3) On the night of October 30, 1995, the London School of Economics graduate, the mongrel he was amongst the pedigree his father and grandfather gave him and he squandered, chose "money and the ethnic vote" as his scapegoat, the after-taste of the bitter water he drank (a plenitude of alcohol really) after his referendum defeat he well knew would lead to his being usurped from the mantle of power;
(4) On September 4, 2012, the country bumpkins from the «vieuille souche» outer reaches of homogeneous white French speaking Catholic Quebec and their urban minions voted for the party that is a shadow if its former self.
They are the inferior leftovers of that bunch of irrational intellectuals from the mid-70s, the proverbial sludge at the bottom of the barrel reeking of the raw sewage that these evil incarnates have been festering in.
They are down to the last playing cards they cannot even bluff with. They are desolate remains of a party completely devoided of any merit, self and otherwise, completely milked dry and with nothing of value left to offer. Anyone offering a penny for their thoughts would be getting the lesser of the bargain.
in light of Niemöller's aforementioned poem, what's next? The religious police? The executioners and their guillotines, or swords or broad-axes? What will this elite of airheads come up with next? If and when this Charter of Bigotry fails, there'll be another lame-brained scheme to replace it.
Stay tuned!
(-_-)
Delete@Mr. Sauce
DeleteYour comment sucks. Who cares what point you were ATTEMPTING to make. FAIL!
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The quebec Charter of values makes sense for one reason & should be adopted by Canada: immigrants who choose to freely move here, must follow our customs, traditions and culture.
If they do not agree with a short list of requirements in order to become contributing citizens of Canada, they can always choose France, Great-Britain or some other west european country that is swamped with terrorists (UK) and Muslims that receive welfare contributions (France). NIMBY!!!
I'm not racist I am a Canadian that misses the pre-Trudeau days when that c%nt opened the flood gates to all kinds of people from creepy countries that - if we were to emigrate there - would probably die in days for NOT converting to their ideals. I am sick & tired of always bending backwards because we have to be nice Canadians...
Un gars is 100% correct and not a racist.
DeleteLibérées de leur voile
DeleteRencontre avec des femmes musulmanes qui soutiennent la charte des valeurs proposée par le gouvernement Marois.
http://www.radio-canada.ca/audio-video/media/2013/09/12/Des-femmes-musulmanes-soutiennent-la-charte-des-valeurs?externalId=6825305
Témoignages très intéressants
She came from Algeria to be able to breathe ("souffler" 1:04). There, she didn't like the fact that women are forced to wear a veil against their wishes. Here, she wants a law that will force women to take off the veil against their wishes.
DeleteHow did Radio Canada find this hypocrite so quickly for this propagandistic report?
Dites-moi adski que pensez-vous des femmes qui portent une burqa noire à 35 degrés L'été?
DeleteLe font-elles réellement de façon volontaire?Vous ne vous posez même pas la question qu'une pression extérieure pourrait intervenir dans ce "choix" vestimentaire?
Il y a une loi au Québec qui interdit de laisser un chien dans une auto à des températures semblables.
Bien dit S.R. Tres vrai!
DeleteContrary to what your pequiste propaganda tells you, many of these women want to wear head scarves because they feel close to their religion. I know this from speaking to some of these women.
DeleteIf these women ever undergo a change of consciousness and stop wanting to wear head scarves (all the power to them), I will be against anyone who forces them to do put it back on. But I am equally against those who want to force these women to take off the scarf when the women want to keep it on. The point is that these women have to make the decision that comes from them, not from an external force like a religious cleric or a secular cleric in the form of a technocrat or bureaucrat.
I view the ayatollahs of Quebec secularism the same way as I view the ayatollahs of Islam and any other religion. What unites all these people is that they are bullies. Common schoolyard bullies who have now grown up and find bullying too irresistible and too precious to give up.
"Bien dit S.R. Tres vrai!"
DeleteHe's talking out of his a** as always and he still is a peak of nationalist thought.
"Theorists of nationalism have often been perplexed, not to say irritated, by the paradox of the political power of nationalisms vs. their philosophical poverty and even incoherence. In other words, unlike most other isms, nationalism has never produced its own thinkers: no Hobbeses, Tocquevilles, Marxes, or Webers." - Benedict Anderson "Imagined Communities"
"...many of these women want to wear head scarves because they feel close to their religion."
DeleteIl y a de fortes chances que ces "croyantes" auront,dans un avenir plus ou moins rapproché,le choix entre un travail au sein de l'État québécois et une relation plus intime avec leur dieu.
Thank you for your posts adski - always informative, sensible and sensitive.
DeleteNobody is forcing anyone to take off their hijab. They can get a job in the privatr sector. If theyre not happy in Québec than can leave, just like how they left their home country.
Delete@SR
DeleteAmiram Shkolnik, C. Richard Taylor*, Virginia Finch* & Arieh Borut
Department of Zoology, Tel Aviv University, Tel Aviv, Israel
*Museum of Comparative Zoology, Harvard University, Cambridge, Massachusetts 02138
Survival in hot deserts has always posed a problem for man; Moses had to solve it in order to lead the children of Israel through the wilderness of the Sinai—a formidable hot desert. It seems likely that the present inhabitants of the Sinai, the Bedouins, would have optimised their solutions for desert survival during their long tenure in this desert Yet, one may have doubts on first encountering Bedouins wearing black robes and herding black goats. We have therefore investigated whether black robes help the Bedouins to minimise solar heat loads in a hot desert. This seemed possible because experiments have shown that white hair on cattle1,2 and white feathers on pigeons3 permit greater penetration of short-wave radiation to the skin than black. In fact, more heat flowed inward through white pigeon plumage than through black when both were exposed to simulated solar radiation at wind speeds greater than 3 m s-1 (ref. 3). We report here that the amount of heat gained by a Bedouin exposed to the hot desert is the same whether he wears a black or a white robe. The additional heat absorbed by the black robe was lost before it reached the skin.
Another way to look at it is this its like having a FAN - The explanation I heard for this is that the clothes themselves are very loose (rather like Roman togas). The extra heat caused by the black colour causes increased upward convection of the air between the cloth and their body. This additional air circulation actually aids in evaporation of persiration and thus results in better cooling. Another scientist put it like this:
Darker clothes absorb more of the sun's energy, so this seems to make no sense, say David Halliday et al. in "Fundamentals of Physics." In fact, black robes have been found to be 6 Celsius degrees hotter than similar white robes. The Bedouin secret lies in the convection breeze set up when the warmer air inside a dark robe rises faster and escapes upward through the porous material, sucking in air from below. So a black robe winds up being no hotter, and its circulating air may even make things more comfortable. Notice that a key element in this system working is the convection made possible by the escape of air through the porous material.
Mais que faites-vous du facteur humidex qui est pratiquement inexistant dans les désert et si présent au Québec?
Deletestop grasping at straws.
DeleteOk,bonne chance lors de la prochaine canicule :)
DeleteAnd now:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.thebeaverton.com/national/item/885-quebec-responds-to-ontario-doctor-ad-by-advertising-to-racist-doctors
Um - wonder if this will work!
http://www.cjad.com/CJADLocalNews/entry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10587869&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook
ReplyDeleteAnd of course the PQ say that the Natives will be treated with more respect by them than by the federal government. Not.
Imagine Vigile net has published an article AGAINST the Quebec Charter of Values! Wow - looks like this is causing a lot more problems for the PQ than they had ever imagined.
Deletehttp://www.vigile.net/La-charte-de-la-honte
FROM ED
DeleteCutie, your last link won't work. It says "This page doesn't exist on Vigile.net" in French. It looks as though someone took it down before we could see it. It would have been a slap in marois' face. Ed
I tried the link Ed and it works fine. Try it again.
DeleteFROM ED
DeleteYou're right n was doing it wrong. Thanks. Ed
I am loving every moment of the Mourani affair.
ReplyDeleteI believe the separatist community is now finding itself at a massive crossroads.
You want your own country, but how badly do you want it?
Mourani was cast out for speaking her mind. What does that tell both the federalist and separatist movements about the people who'd lead Quebec as a country?
I sincerely believe that this entire story (the proposed charter as well as the Mourani affair) could sour a few sovereignists from the cause and have them re-think their stance.
There's no doubt in my mind that this will prompt Mourani to re-think her loyalties. She came to a wonderful country that embraced her with open arms...only to join a movement dedicated to harming this country.
In turn, her fellow separatists betrayed her as she had betrayed Canada. This is Mourani's chance at redemption.
Let's face it - even without the proposed charter, the PQ constantly cannibalizes its own and the comments by card-carrying members themselves appear to be looking themselves in the mirror this morning and asking themselves a question we've often seen on this blog:
"And you want to make a country out of this?"
My point exactly:
DeleteTwo-time Bloc candidate, Mohamedali Jetha on the sovereignists turning their backs on the immigrants who supported the movement:
«Je sens aujourd'hui que tous les efforts que j'ai faits pendant toutes ces années, c'est perdu dans l'océan. Ça n'existe plus»
Wish I could feign sympathy for him.
It should be noted that Mr. Jetha hails from a very, VERY violent country.
This was staged in a small town in upstate New York:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3di8Vw15XY#t=331
Check out the reactions of regular people who tell the actor playing an islamophobe. And check out the soldier at the very end.
Instead of supporting the charter of "values", maybe Quebeckers could learn from the Americans, the very people that they like to denigrate as "backwards" and not as "progressive" or "enlightened" as themselves.
All the people in this video, even the redneck who seemed to agree with the kid but later was more balanced, are giants in comparison with people who support this charter.
Click here to watch from the beginning:
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3di8Vw15XY
J'aimerais revoir cette même vidéo avec le même commerçant mais s'exprimant dans une autre langue que l'anglais.
DeleteSR - Be honest..it doesnt matter how well an immigrant or an anglophone speaks french..and the majority of both anglo and allophones are bilingual. This charter of values has nothing to do with language..its about preserving the quebec public service for the pur laine. In fact they dont even need a charter to do that since only 1.8 percent of government workers are visible minorities. Most of the muslims coming into Quebec are from french speaking countries..morocco, algeria. Its ironic that Quebecs desperate attempt to bring in french immigrants has resulted in more and more Muslims moving here and it seems Quebecers dont like that.
DeleteAs is typically the case..Quebec wants it cake and wants to eat it too. Quebecois are not having enough babies even with the most generous parental leave program, the most generous day care program, the cheapest tuition fees in the continent. And they want french speaking immigrants..and they cant get enough from Europe so they are taking them from Africa..and now they dont like the way they dress/look.
The pur laine wants to keep his cushy government job and not have to deal with any visible minorities and especially no evil anglophone, keep all the social perks (parental leave, cheap tuition), force any immigrant who comes here to give up their religion completely and work at some menial low paying job to serve the pur-laine. And to pay for all of this the government continues to extort money from the rest of "evil" Canada where a significant part of it is from those evil oilsands.
As adski says the people in the video are miles ahead of the people who support this charter.
Si une personne ne peut retirer ses signes religieux ostentatoires de 9 à 5,elle a un problème.
Delete"And they want french speaking immigrants..and they cant get enough from Europe so they are taking them from Africa"
DeleteFrench-speaking Europeans aren't very appreciated either if they happen to have "attitude" (1:04).
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2wp6_face-cachee-de-limmigration-au-queb_blog
Please explain to me why this is such a problem?? I could care less what religious symbols somebody wears as long as they do their job, they arent causing any dangers for themselves or other by wearing the symbol, and the symbol does not prevent identification of the purpose for security or other important reasons. This charter is just appealing to the racists who live in the quebec hinterlands who feel threatened..it appeals once again to the incredible insecurity that many francophones have in this province about their precious identity.
DeleteSR - The problems could be fixed very easily by telling your compatriots to have at least one more child per family. It seems that the generous parental leave and daycare programs are still not enough to get people to have more children.
All these bills and charters to preserve the french language and culture are actually long term contributing to its destruction. Bill 101 caused an economic collapse in Montreal and the city has never recovered..unemployment rate chronically higher than elsewhere..many large companies and head offices left along with many high paying jobs. Private investment is much lower in Quebec than the rest of Canada and has dropped for decades..very few companies want to invest in this province and who can blame them. Everything is mismanaged, corruption rules, taxes are high and bill 101 places additional silly roadblocks in the way and now the new charter and the attempt at Bill 14. This charter will have a similar negative impact on foreign investment..do you think foreigners will react well to a province that is going to tell them what language to use and on top of it how their workers have to dress?? Without economic power Quebec becomes more and more irrelevant.
I argue that Quebec has been able to preseve its language and culture largely as a result of its alliance to Canada. A seperate Quebec would be a much poorer province..without the 20 billion or so money it receives back from Ottawa each year. Hence it would have to trade even more with foreign entities and guess what..the international language is english and thats NOT the fault of english canada. Hence Quebec will need to ensure that even more of its citizens communicate well in english. It will lose much of its anglophone population..which has a fair bit of wealth..and will be stuck with a bunch of unilingual francophones who have largely been protected in government jobs and by powerful unions.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Deleteadski - Good point and its another sad reminder of how insular and insecure many Quebecois are. Even people from France are often mocked and treated poorly. I have some close family members from France and they have seen this firsthand. How many times have they heard that French people are snobs and arrogant and even France abandoned Quebec. Geez..this happened like 300 years ago and people are still bothered by it??
DeleteSo the Quebec dream is to maintain the pur laine in total control..they have all the cushy job for life government jobs, the cushy union jobs, the generous social system perks such as parental leave, cheap tuition. The immigrants who are here and the anglophones who may have been here for generations have to work for the private sector which means real work and often at lower pay/benefits, pay outrageous levels of tax to support the pur laine government, and completely give up their religion, language and so on. Quel paradis!!!
Anybody can live the Québec dream, just learn french. The gov. offers free language training for new residents. To succeed anywhere in the world you have to make sacrifices.
DeleteTres vrai, Vive le Q.
DeleteS'ils ne veulent pas apprendre le francais ils ont choisis la mauvaise destination!
"Anybody can live the Québec dream, just learn french."
DeleteThis statement is false. You know it and we know it. As complicated pointed out: "it doesnt matter how well an immigrant or an anglophone speaks french..and the majority of both anglo and allophones are bilingual". Or even as French people themselves find out that they do not fit in because of their "attitude".
To live the "Quebec dream", it is necessary to adjust one's "attitude", culture, habits, beliefs, to accept the "hierarchy", to accept some people as "maitres", etc... which is all too much to ask.
"S'ils ne veulent pas apprendre le francais ils ont choisis la mauvaise destination!"
DeleteNice try to digress.
This post is about Quebec's attempts to secularize people whose basic language is French. So they speak Frenhc and probably speak it better than most Quebeckers.
"This statement is false. You know it and we know it."
DeleteAlors adski?C'est pour quand votre départ pour le pays de vos rêves?
But S.R. If Adski leaves who will pay your B.S.?
DeleteAdski ne quittera pas,les chiens qui ne cessent d'aboyer sont les plus peureux.
DeleteOh boy SR..arent we the pot calling the kettle black!
DeleteQuebecois I believe are among the greatest whiners I have ever seen. Waaa..I hear and see too much english...Waaa..I dont like those funny looking muslims..Waaa..the rest of Canada is Quebec-bashing..Waaa..Ottawa isnt giving us enough money..Waa..our university tuition fees are too expensive..Waaa..they want to cut my richedly deserved ei benefits..Waaa..i want a government job for life where I dont really have to work or else I will stomp my feet..Waaa
Re: "... I do remain surprised that nobody picked up on an exchange between Bernard Drainville and a reporter during his news conference. The reporter asked whether these changes (the proposed ban on religious wear) could apply to private industry and Drainville responded that he hoped so. ..."
ReplyDeleteTo its credit, the Globe and Mail has focused on that angele. In a Q and A with Drainville, the reporter asked the minister early on if he believed private business should adopt these guidelines. The Globe later did a follow-up story, headlined "PQ presses private sector to follow its lead on secular workplaces." It also did a piece on the now-famous Lakeridge Hospital ad (We Don't Care What's On Your Head ...")
Other than the Globe, I haven't seen that angle played up elsewhere.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/working-for-the-state-is-not-a-right-pq-minister-says-defending-charter/article14243176/
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/pq-presses-private-sector-to-follow-its-lead-on-secular-workplaces/article14268573/
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/businesses-find-anxiety-and-opportunity-in-quebecs-values-charter/article14300019/
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/pq-presses-private-sector-to-follow-its-lead-on-secular-workplaces/article14268573/
Delete"The government will not impose the process on the private sector, but Mr. Drainville said it will be hard to ignore. “These are only guidelines, but by putting them in the charter, we are sending a clear signal to society. What we are saying is, ‘Here is a framework by which people can govern themselves,’ ” he said."
-----
Just like with 101, there is the letter of the law, and then there is the "spirit" of the law. This letter-spirit ploy basically an attempt at a win-win situation by people who want to re-engineer the society. They can lean on the "spirit" of the law to bully people, and they can lean on the absence of any literal bullying in the letter to defend the good name of the law
The "spirit" of the law is supposed to culturally influence the masses and businesses to do the dirty work of the government which wants to have a cake (re-engineer the society) and eat it too (not be soiled with the ugly stuff that always accompanies social engineering).
It's just occurred to me that the reporter to whom the Editor was referring might well have been from the Globe and Mail, thus making my previous point moot. The Editor is right in noting that the potential effect on private industry hasn't received widespread coverage.
ReplyDeleteMaria Mourani came to this province with per-conceived notions about the linguistic situation in Montreal. Just like Canadian officials might downplay the presence of French in one province of an otherwise English speaking country, Quebec officials do their best to downplay the presence of English in a province that is officially French but whose only metropolis is de facto bilingual (giving rise to an absurdity like Canada being officially bilingual and de facto unilingual, and Montreal being officially unilingual but de facto bilingual). Many immigrants exposed to this politically-motivated manipulation find themselves in shock after arriving here.
ReplyDeletePeople like Mourani decided to get involved in politics to shape the Quebec that she expected to find but hasn't found it. She got involved with a bunch of political gangsters who did things that didn't affect her personally, so things were easy to block out. Well, the gangsters have not come for people she feels close to, since she comes from the targeted community. And this is a lesson worth learning. It's a wake up call for her. And better that it comes now than later.
have now come
DeleteFROM ED
DeleteMaria Mourani knew what she was getting into. She came to CANADA and joned a party that was trying to crush people speaking the Canadian tongue. It's things like this that makes me think the town fool, Une Gars is no too far off when he speaks about unappreciative immigrants. I am waiting to see where she goes now. If she joins the Liberals or Caq, it will tell us a lot about her. Ed
Mourani is making a statement now, live on on RDI.
DeleteShe's wearing a cross around her neck. I bet she put it on to make a statement. I like it.
@Adski : She is always wearing it. By the way, she is a christian, not a muslim.
Delete@adski
DeleteI couldn't care less what the f@ck you can think of me. Same for Peggy.
You two must be some of the most extreme pathetic, repressed anglos ever. Why can't you two just be happy about where you live?
Losers.
Adski struck a chord with the tacky parvenu... heheh! :)
DeleteI say...Life sucks when it bites u in the behind, doesn't it? I have no sympathy for her AT ALL. Once again the powers that reign above us all prove...They forget no one !! Time to pay the TOLL...sooner or later it catches up with all of us.
DeleteNot to mention..she should have known better.
Or Or Or she got tired of keeping up appearances. It's tough to go around being something u r not....
@ UN GARS,
DeleteAdski isn't an anglo. He is an allophone originally from Poland.
You're very schizophrenic about Quebec. I'm surprised you're not calling it "Quebekistan" in the usual derogatory fashion, which you have been doing here in 90 percent of your posts.
Mourani is reacting as expected.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't be happier that this has happened.
Message to all immigrants - separatists are NOT your friends.
Their very raison d'etre - to divide and enclose is an example of a very closed mind and spirit.
She has declared in her press conference that she is questioning her position as a sovereignist...how could there be any question?
I digress.
If we really think about it...this is a gift!! I hope she goes after them with everything she's got....may be her only shot at redemption...I figure.
DeleteEven the city of Gatineau is weighing in on the economic front that the liberals are trying to bring up. The PQ have totally ignored the economy ever since they came into power. All that matters is SEPARATION!https://www.bulletinaylmer.com/en/francais-lecononie-abandonnee/2013/09/12/
ReplyDeleteUn médecin créationniste : Non merci!
ReplyDeletePatrick Lemay
ReplyDeleteI don't care about your stupid beliefs. Just don't put in my face your religious symbols when my taxes pay your salary.
If Jewish, Muslim and Sikh religious symbols are to be banned, then Christian symbols like Roman Catholic crosses should be prohibited as well. Or are you a hypocrite too like all of those other country bumpkin/hillbillies living in the backwoods of Quebec?
DeleteGobeillades
ReplyDeleteLe chef des islamistes radicaux au Québec
http://gobeillades.wordpress.com/2013/09/12/des-allies-surnaturels/
Djemila Benhabib appuie la charte des valeurs québécoises
ReplyDeletehttp://www.radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/Politique/2013/09/12/004-benhabib-appui-charte-valeurs.shtml
À la lecture des commentaires émis dans les journaux ou les réseaux sociaux, je crois que vous, mes amis musulmans, semblez avoir de la difficulté à comprendre le peuple québécois qui est non seulement en faveur de la charte de la laïcité, mais qui y tient mordicus.
ReplyDeleteSelon plusieurs d’entre vous et aussi quelques bien-pensants québécois, vous nous percevez comme un peuple xénophobe, à la limite raciste, alors que c’est totalement faux.
J’aimerais vous amener à réfléchir à quelques points qui pourraient nous rapprocher et vous aider à comprendre notre réaction vis-à-vis votre présence en sol québécois.
Pour avoir visité le Moyen-Orient et presque tous les pays musulmans, je pense que vous serez d’accord avec moi que le Canada (incluant bien entendu le Québec) est, comparativement à votre pays d’origine, une des nations les plus pacifiques au monde. Souvenez-vous que les Casques bleus sont une création canadienne.
Le peuple québécois déteste la chicane et la confrontation. Il aime la paix. Il peut faire des concessions, mais pas n’importe lesquelles.
Le Québec a été sous l’emprise de l’Église catholique pendant 400 ans. J’exagère à peine en disant que l’Église était pour nous l’équivalent des talibans chez vous. Tout comme vos extrémistes islamistes, on nous obligeait à aller prier à l’église sous peine de brûler en enfer. L’alcool était fortement déconseillé, la musique et les films faisaient l’objet de censure. Si les jeunes femmes avaient des relations sexuelles avant le mariage, elles se faisaient renier par leurs parents et étaient jetées à la rue. On leur arrachait leurs enfants des bras pour les confier à des orphelinats dirigés par… l’Église. Pendants ce temps, des religieux abusaient des petits enfants à l’orphelinat ou à l’école.
Il a fallu 400 ans au peuple québécois pour briser cette domination et rejeter ces dogmes et croyances ridicules. Croyez-vous que nous allons laisser une autre religion entrer dans nos vies et dans l’espace public ? Croyez-vous sincèrement que je suis à l’aise quand l’enseignante de ma petite fille porte un voile pour lui démontrer de manière sans équivoque sa croyance religieuse : « Tu vois moi, je suis meilleure que toi, je pratique ma religion ». Et comment pensez-vous que je vais réagir quand on lui imposera la nourriture halal au CPE ou à l’école ? Nous sommes maintenant un peuple libre, libéré de la religion.
Noyé dans une mer de 375 millions de Nord-Américains qui parlent l’anglais, le peuple québécois est fier de dire, encore aujourd’hui, qu’il a conservé sa langue et sa culture. S’il faut se battre encore 400 ans pour avoir un Québec laïc, libéré de toute religion, nous nous battrons. Les Québécois ne se laisseront jamais imposer une culture ou croyance qui va à l’encontre de leurs valeurs. De là la nécessité de la Charte des valeurs québécoises.
Alors, je vous tends la main, je vous demande à vous, mes amis musulmans, de vous joindre aux autres immigrants, italiens, chinois, grecs, vietnamiens, latino-américains, qui pratiquent eux aussi leur religion, mais discrètement à la maison. Pourquoi est-ce si facile pour eux et pas pour vous ?
Pour beaucoup d’entre vous, vous avez quitté un pays en guerre, le Québec vous offre un pays d’accueil, de paix, sans guerre et sans conflit. Un pays où tout est possible. Il suffit de faire comme les autres immigrants et de vous intégrer au Québec. Vous avez tout à gagner.
Jacques Leclerc,Montréal
Références : http://plus.lapresse.ca/screens/498e-ac00-5227b112-b2ea-153eac1c606d%7COffzD4LRfObF
Que diriez-vous d'un individu qui entrerait dans votre maison arborant fièrement une casquette de nazi?
DeleteEt maintenant,si il s'agissait d'un représentant de l'État ?
DeleteLa modération a bien meilleur goût,n'et-ce pas?
DeleteElle ont tout à fait le droit mais pas lorsque leur employeur l'interdit sur leur lieux et aux heures de travail.Interdiction qui s'applique à tous les employés dailleurs.
DeleteAvez-vous le droit de porter un casque de moto au travail?
Delete"La modération a bien meilleur goût,n'et-ce pas?"
DeleteHa! This from the individual who expresses French language extremism, (among other things extreme) at every turn...every chance he gets.....
I gotta laugh!
@ J Leclerc
DeleteI don't understand why you wouldn't consider the scarf or veil that your daughter's teacher wears to be just another item of clothing /fashion accessory like earrings or an actual scarf someone wears around his/her neck? Just because it represents something religious to them, the person wearing it, doesn't mean it has to mean something religious to you? Why is a kippah different then a head accessory any woman would wear, like a hat or a headband? How does ANYTHING other people wear for their personal reason have anything to do with You? How does what they wear become about YOU?
Personally, I find tattoos disturbing, especially when they populate entire body landscapes....But I am grown up enough to understand...That..IT ISN'T ABOUT ME.
The kippah, hijab and turban other people wear isn't about you, and shouldn't affect you in the least..
It is unsophisticated to think otherwise.
"It is unsophisticated to think otherwise."
DeleteOh boy!Vous venez de "scrapper" votre éloge à l'ouverture d'esprit.
@yannick
Delete"...pourquoi le choix d'un couvre-chef est considéré "ostentoire".
that's badly formulated. the choice is not ostentatoire, the item itself is. and if you're not sure about what ostentatoire means, check out your petit robert. obvious may be an appropriate synonym.
"...à savoir si des musulmanes ont ou non le droit de se mettre un foulard sur la tête."
again badly formulated. first because it's not just any foulard, it's a religious foulard. if it was just a random foulard, they wouldn't mind taking it off. so obscuring this attribute in your questioning is dishonest. then you also miss the part while working for a secular state that has to appear neutral, politically and religiously in its interactions with quebec population. finally you shouldn't ask, like you do here, if muslims have a right or not, as the answer is undoubtedly yes, but if they should have that right or not. the answer to that one is less obvious.
@anectote
Deletewhat would you know about sophistication mate?!?
I'd like to see a hijahb Student wouldn't consider to be ostentatious. Of course there in lies the rub, they claim any religious symbol that is integral to a religion other than Christianity to be ostentatious and therefore can't be "on show". Personally I consider them to be rather common place and rather moderate considering some of the fashions now a days, but when you go out looking for something, they'll all be "ostentatious".
DeleteThe PQ sure got it right with this one. They've finally found an issue which is supported by the population, and condemned by the rest of the country. How perfect, they now get to show that Quebec and Canada don't share the same values.
ReplyDeleteI doubt they even really care about their charter of values being adopted or not, it feels like their goal was to stir up the crap that we're currently seeing. Using anglos as a scapegoat obviously doesn't work anymore, so they've moved on to the immigrants.
The problem is that with the current level of support, if this bill passes, it'll be like 101, there will be no going back, and we'll be arguing about it for the next 30 years.
If the fed. gov. gets involved, they'll just be helping the PQ prove their point, and helping the separatist movement.
Basically we're screwed.
Meanwhile, tens of thousands of jobs have been lost in this province since the beginning of the year, and the PQ are spending 1.9 million $ to advertise their charter of values. The same amount was spent by the liberals to advertise "Le Plan Nord", which aimed to create jobs and attract investors.
Again, I'd like to thank all those who voted CAQ during the last election. Good thing you got rid of all that "liberal corruption".
FROM ED
DeleteYannick, why are you helping S.R. turn our blog into a French one? Why are you encouraging S.R. at all? Ed
Parce que nous sommes deux francophones Eddie.Un,à moitié et l'autre totalement.
DeleteAppui à un mafioso: un candidat de Marcel Côté se retire
ReplyDeletehttp://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/montreal/201309/13/01-4689111-appui-a-un-mafioso-un-candidat-de-marcel-cote-se-retire-.php
Haha!
havent you heard? anything that doesn't agree with the PQ is now considered quebec bashing
ReplyDeleteHavent you heard? Anybody who doesnt agree with sharia is called a islamaphobe.
DeleteHavent you heard? Anybody who doesnt agree with a cultural minority is called a white power racist.
DeleteBernard Landry just on RDI: "Les premières victimes du multicularism ... ce sont des immigrants"
ReplyDeleteI beg to differ. The first and main victims of multiculturalism, poly-lingualism, and availability of alternatives in general are ... the elites.
People should learn what nation-states are all about, how they came about and in whose interest they exist, and when they are demystified by scratching below the surface of flags, anthems, and revisionist history, they do not pass the test and are exposed as cold and calculating power centers.
http://www.amazon.ca/Where-Nation-States-Come-Institutional-Nationalism/dp/0691134677/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1379100773&sr=1-1&keywords=where+nation+states+come+from
http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/0198205473/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB
http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/0192100173/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_8?ie=UTF8&psc=1
http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/0300105924/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB
http://www.amazon.ca/Imagined-Communities-Reflections-Origin-Nationalism/dp/1844670864/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1379100717&sr=8-1&keywords=imagined+communities
and many other great works...
Who is behind the anti-charter manifestation!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.985fm.ca/audioplayer.php?mp3=190281
Totalement ahurissant.
DeleteInteresting how Fabrice de Pierrebourg wrote Montréalistan in 2007, only one year after the book of a very similar title: Londonistan (written by a neoconservative war monger Melanie Phillips who works for a UK's tabloid Daily Mail) was published in the UK.
DeleteIt looks like this de Pierrebourg guy is a plagiarist. And he could have made at least a small effort of coming up with a title that doesn't give him away so cleanly.
I'm not a big fan of de Pierrebourg also.
DeleteRead a post I wrote, way back when.
Police Collude With Journalists to Target Montreal Hasids
@adski
Deletewhy don't you share your thoughts about Adil Charkaoui'n friends instead of drifting away with a cheap attack on the messenger?
@adski,
Delete"neoconservative warmonger"? What absolute crap.
@student : Charkaoui is clearly not "white as snow". Not sure why readers avoid making comments on his case...
DeleteConsidering all the government had on Adil Charkaoui was that they didn't know where we was for awhile, and a voice on a phone they can't prove is him and accusations that were later retracted, they probably never should have issued that security certificate, certainly bit them in the ass not having any evidence. I'm not sure why the Seppies are so down on him, QS and Amir Khadr love the guy!
Delete@dave santi
Delete"Not sure why readers avoid making comments on his case..."
oh i know why they don't. they all know that undermining the protest's legitimacy is support for the pq. killing the pq and quebec's independance drive is way more important than facts, their proper interpretation and intelligence. you can even see a nice charkaoui defense up here by whowhatsit! very telling.
"why don't you share your thoughts about Adil Charkaoui'n friends instead of drifting away with a cheap attack on the messenger? "
DeleteLet me tell you who's really diverting: B.Dutrizac who is trying to shift the focus away from the goal of the march onto some organizer.
My view on Adil Charkaoui is this: I don't care. If a resurrected Ben Laden himself was bankrolling this march, I would still agree with the goal of the march.
Contrary to the notion Dutrizac wants to plant in people's heads, this march is not about Adil Charkaoui, it's about the charter of "values".
Des milliers d’Haïtiens, comme mes parents, ont été généreusement accueillis au Québec grâce au gouvernement péquiste de René Lévesque et grâce à Jacques Couture, ministre de l’Immigration à l’époque. Si vous sondez ma communauté, vous verrez que les gens d’origine haïtienne sont de tout cœur avec la majorité des Québécois qui s’opposent farouchement aux accommodements religieux à la sauce libérale, car cela fait deux classes de citoyens : ceux qui se conforment aux lois et règlements sans rechigner et ceux qui peuvent se lamenter et obtenir des passe-droits ou faveurs qui sont en fait des avantages refusés à la majorité des Québécois. Merci au gouvernement Marois pour cette charte des valeurs qui met enfin tous les Québécois sur le même pied.
ReplyDeleteDe tout cœur avec vous,Mélissa Pierre.
Merci Melissa. Mais surtout merci aux membres de ta communaute qui ont accepte de s'integrer sans "chialler".
DeleteLes congés aditionnels,les prières sur les lieux de travail,les aliments spéciaux dans l'espace publique,etc.
DeleteJe n'ai jamais vu une manifestation de végétariens revendicateurs de droits.
DeleteMais tout est possible :)
That's because no idiots have come along trying to ban people from being able to choose not to eat meat. I suppose it's best not to give you any ideas. I think SR is just jealous that they get off extra days of work and he doesn't, oh wait that's right he doesn't work anyway, so how does it affect him again?
DeletePetition against the Charter of Quebec Values:
ReplyDeletehttp://quebecinclusif.org/
in case you wish to sign.
so much effort in trying to hold quebec back. why?!?
DeletePoor student, we're not trying to hold Quebec back, we're trying to stop it from regressing. Individual freedoms are not just important when they affect you, but when they affect anyone in your society. You should be ready to stand up for them instead of advocating for repression, there's enough of that in the world as it is.
Delete@thatguy
Deleteto have a society function you need rules, or laws, that apply to everyone. every law denies individual freedom of the dude who wants to do otherwise. proof that "individual freedoms" are not an absolute principle that should drive all your moral judgements. the tough bit here is that freedom of religion is considered a fundamental freedom. but it's got limits too: human sacrifices are not permitted whatever your god tells you.
in the case we are invited to comment on, i think less religion is more modernity. less religion is going forward. more religion i going rearwards. you see i trust science more. i assume that's where you don't agree with me.
but the main reason why i think the ban on religious stuff is a decent idea is coherence: secular state, secular looking reps. of course ideally all state employees, all citizens, should be atheists, but quebec society is not there yet. i agree with the gradual approach the pq proposes.
To all you mental midgets who support this charter of Quebec garbage.. I say this to you... Today it's the Muslim, Sikh, jew and you name your ethnic group, tomorrow when you have achieved the eradication of these groups from the land, it will be YOU the next perceived Oppressor.. Rights are Rights are Rights.....
ReplyDelete"To all you mental midgets who support this charter of Quebec garbage..."
Deleteyou don't like secularity?
The CBC interviewed an older francophone in Ste. Thérèse, Pierrette Gratton, who says she supports the so-called Charter because during the Duplessis era, she resented being told by the Church how to dress (long sleeves, hats with veils, etc…). Therefore, she supports the New Church (the PQ) telling people how to dress.
ReplyDeleteWhen asked whether she sees the irony in telling people how to dress because she resented being told how to dress, she claimed that she did not.
This is the level of genius that the PQ appeals to.
Yes I was watching some of the interviews and most of them had never even seen anyone from another country let alone know what the hell they are objecting to. Sad that this goes on in a modern age where countries have the power to blow one another up with the push of a button. So much misunderstanding and fear of learning anything new about their fellow human beings.
Delete@true montrealer
Deletepierrette gratton was against a religious dress code then, and she's against a religious dress code now. no irony there mate. i'd call it coherence.
Nobody is trying to impose any religious dress code, you sad, deceitful, incoherent liar.
Delete@true montrealer
Deleteif it's not imposed, why is it a big deal to take off your religious attire while you work for a non-religious thing?
it's like asking a bruins fan to remove his bruins cap while he works as a rep for the canadiens. seems reasonable to me.
oh and cut the insults mate. it's uncalled for and against this blog's rules.
DeleteAre you insulted because you are (A) sad, (B) deceitful, or (C) an incoherent liar?
Delete@ student
Delete"it's like asking a bruins fan to remove his bruins cap while he works as a rep for the canadiens. seems reasonable to me."
Equating religion and hockey? And you call yourself a separatist? Sounds like you have a lot more in common with the rest of Canada than you think.
@Student - really? Are you really, really this fucking retarded?
DeleteI have to meet you in person to believe you exist.
You can't possibly be this obscenely stupid and backwards.
There has to be something more to this.
@whowhatsit
Delete"Equating religion and hockey?"
it's not an equation, it's an analogy. to help you understand. think about it.
"And you call yourself a separatist?"
i never did that, but what has this got to do with the hockey fan analogy?!?
Student
DeleteTis an analogy that equates the two things. By saying a is to b, as c is to d, you are equating a and c and b and d. Pretty straight forward, perhaps a logic class is something you should look into in your academic career?
Forgive me, I like most people do not draw a distinction between a separatist and someone who says they want to separate, it seems rather pedantic all things considered.
A cross country field might also be in order for your upcoming academics. You see the people of Canada (that's the rest of the country wherein Quebec resides) are rather fond of Hockey, your analogy where you equate the wearing of jerseys to that of religious attire (quite incorrectly)displays an adoration or at least familiarity of hockey. Hence perhaps you have more in common with the rest of Canada than you think. In any event it was meant as a joke, I again apologize perhaps it was a bit...over your head, I'll stick with something more on your level, perhaps a pie gag or a knock knock joke?
@whowhatit
Deleteso why is my analogy incorrect mate? you never explicated it when it should have been your main concern.
also, you didn't explain why you think it's relevant to underline what you perceive to be my political stance on quebec separation in the context of this discussion.
"...perhaps you have more in common with the rest of Canada than you think."
right. well mate i knew canadians and quebeckers shared a love for hockey. i still think they are very different people nonetheless. brazilians and germans both love football you know?
"...it was meant as a joke."
ah! sorry mate. hahaha.
lolllllllll, enjoy
ReplyDeleteA video inspired by an open letter to Pauline Marois from CJAD's Tommy Schnurmacher
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzjqm9mU3BY&hd=1
EDITORIAL FROM THE FRENCH PRESS:
ReplyDeleteTHE CHARTER OF SHAME
Published September 12, 2013 by ANDRÉ PRATTE, La Presse
http://www.lapresse.ca/debats/editoriaux/andre-pratte/201309/11/01-4688405-la-charte-de-la-honte.php
The government is feeding the worst prejudices for electoral purposes. It is shameful.
Blinded by the electoral potential of the identity issue, on Wednesday the PQ government issued guidelines which, if they become law, will take Quebec backward by half a century. The debate having been launched, one that was not required by any means, will divide Quebec. Some of the ditches that have been dug will remain so for a long time. Minoritities who contribute every day to building Quebec will feel ostracized and will let the world know it. The Francization of immigrants will be curbed.
Some elements of the project are agreed upon, including the assertion of the neutrality of the state and that of guidelines for religious accommodation. These statements that have been made will change nothing at all to what already exists. The guidelines that have been set by Minister Bernard Drainville are those that the law has drawn. The neutrality of the state has been an undisputed fact since the Quiet Revolution. If adding a pair of suspenders to the belt can reassure some, no harm is done.
It is different story with the prohibition of "ostentatious" religious symbols in public institutions. This policy goes against history, traditions, and frankly, Quebec values. It is definitely a violation of the freedom of religion, which, in international law as well as in Canadian and Quebec law, includes the freedom to express one’s faith in public. Is this violation justified by some grave peril? The Quebec government would have to struggle to demonstrate that such is the case before the courts, unable as it is to even say how many of its civil servants wear a religious sign. Everything indicates that this number is tiny and that the behaviour of individuals in question is light-years away from proselytizing. Braggarts that they are, the PQ claim to be tackling with "courage" (as per Bernard Landry) a problem that does not exist. In doing so, they are knowingly and calculatingly endorsing and feeding the worst prejudices ("We will not let ourselves be invaded!"). It is cowardly. It is shameful.
Quebec is sending a hostile and contemptuous message to religious minorities: we do not want you unless, in addition to speaking French, you leave your deepest convictions at home. The effect will be terrible, a thousand times worse than Jacques Parizeau’s infamous "ethnic votes" comment in 1995.
All those who have been interviewed so far, Jewish, Sikh and Muslim alike, have said that they will leave their jobs if they are forced to remove their religious symbols. The PQ tries to minimize the risk of an exodus by citing the example of France. But, despite their fantasies, Quebec is not and never will be France.
If one is expelled from the world of work in French, a member of a religious minority will not need to change countries; other provinces will welcome them with open arms. He/she may even find a job here in Quebec, in the cities, hospitals and schools that will request to be exempted from the ban on religious symbols or that will refuse to apply it. Among these will be all Anglo-Quebec institutions. The Marois government’s charter will thus push those people who had integrated or were in the process of integrating into French Quebec toward the English-Quebec community instead.
The Marois government hammers the slogan “Un Québec pour tous” ("A Quebec for all"). We see in fact that what the PQ wants is “Un Québec pour nous" (“A Quebec for us"). Not the "nous" of Lesage, Lévesque and Bourassa. That of Duplessis and Parizeau.
Marois’ cynical ploy to stir up the population for a snap election this December is blowing up in her face big time.
DeleteShe has stupidly managed to even split separatists with her divisive politics and is likely to become yet another PQ premier that helps bring another Trudeau to power.
Une collecte de sang 100 % musulmane à l’Université de Montréal
ReplyDeleteHéma Québec fait maintenant des collectes de sang ethnique, voire religieuses.
http://lesnews.ca/politique/28199-une-collecte-de-sang-100-musulmane-a-luniversite-de-montreal/
Hé bien...Après les pure-laines,les pur-sangs ?
Hahahahaha!
Isabelle D.
DeleteHéma-Québec, pour sa collecte de sang d'aujourd'hui dans la communauté Arabe, demande aux infirmières de baisser les yeux si c'est un homme, de s'habiller avec des vêtements longs et de ne porter aucun signe religieux.
WTF???
Ahurissant n'est-il pas?
DeleteAre we talking about the same Hema-Quebec that won't accept blood from Homosexuals? Yeah, I'd use them as a barometer for reasonable policies.
Delete“Hey you, you look straight. What? You like to fuck whores every weekend? No problem! We’ll take your blood!
DeleteBut you, you look gay. What’s that? You’ve been in a committed relationship for 20 years? Sorry, not interested, that’s not good enough.”
In other words, since discrimination is acceptable, so is drawing blood "islamically".
DeleteAlso worth mentioning is that quebec duplicated a service, for absolutely no reason, that was being paid for by the federal government, made it their own and now we taxpayers are YET AGAIN footing the bill for things we don't need. God, will the taxpayers in this province ever smarten up as to how much waste their crooked provincial governments are involved in? Only in quebec are these nonsensical things allowed to go on without the citizens ever rising up against them.
Delete@Yannick
DeleteI was in no way insinuating that it is only Hema Quebec that has terrible policies. I do find it odd that the only place this whole story was reported on was fringe blogs who have copy pasted the same story, and reference a letter that doesn't seem to exist.
FROM ED
ReplyDeleteThe deceitful Maria Mouriani is speaking out, mostly to the English press. Isn't it odd that someone would appeal for help to the people she has helped to try to destroy. The dubious bitch can rot in hell for ll I care. Ed
Very interesting, isn’t it? We have never seen her face nor heard a single word from her separatist mouth before… and now that that she has been thrown out like yesterday’s fish and has realized how she was simply being used by the separatists as their token ethnic and has chosen to abandon the sovereignist cause, she is suddenly making herself available to the national anglophone media.
DeleteCry me a river.
@ed
Delete"...mostly to the English press."
but you don't read french press ed. how can you know she went mostly to the english press?!?
"The dubious bitch can rot in hell for ll I care."
it's funny up to this morning i was under the impression that you were a good christian ed.
At least her eyes have finally been opened to what separatists *really* think about her and people like her.
ReplyDeletePQ hypocrisy is not very surprising...
ReplyDeletehttp://bit.ly/17WpiDl
?? can't you see the difference between religion and heritage, mate?
DeleteÉvidemment pas
DeleteEt cette charte sera difficilement rétroactive.
Can you? That is the question.
Delete@rdiq
Deleteof course! the cross on the flag is heritage, and a hijab is religion (or submission, which is similar).
Your answer says it all. Thank you.
DeleteThe flag was introduced in 1948, not quite ancient Quebec history, you can find a lot of Quebec Jews who have been wearing kippahs here for longer. I find it odd that the PQ is so concerned about heritage and history and yet they were the ones who set up commissions to rename roads rivers and towns so that they were less English sounding. I guess they are only concerned about the part of history they want to propagate, which is the only way to make sense of the completely hypocritical defense of all the christian religious symbols in Quebec.
DeleteAlso, if you think you're white knighting Muslim women by forcing them to take off their hijabs, you're ridiculously out of touch with reality. By the same token you should be pushing for a ban on female wedding rings as it shows that they are subservient and property of a man!
Next time a doctor from Hérouxville wants to operate on you while wearing a burka, all they have to to is say that they're wearing "heritage clothing" and poof! Problem solved.
Delete@rdiq
Deleteyou're welcome mate.
@thatguy
"...you should be pushing for a ban on female wedding rings..."
bad examplee, as both spouses wear a ring.
@joseph
no. problem not solved. it's not enough to say something; i also have to believe it.
@ Student
DeleteNot really, it only became customary for men to wear them as well in the 20th century and some men still do not wear a wedding ring (especially in places like India). I mean there might be some women out there only wearing a wedding ring because a man says to! Just like you say that hijabs must be banned because some women only wear one because a man tells them to. Hence following your logic, all wedding rings should be banned as some might be seen as the repression of women!
@Joseph : The most educated person to come out of Herouxville was probably a plumber.
Delete@thatguy
Deletei think you're pushing the thing too far. i'd leave wedding rings alone. at least until i read a high quality study that proves the ring is in fact a symbol of women repression. do you have one at hand?
Evidently, there aren’t a sufficient number of French blogs on the internet for francophones to post on, so some people are increasingly feeling the need to hijack someone else’s blog by posting in French on what apparently has become a more relevant or important English blog, one that is ostensibly by anglophones about anglophones in Quebec.
ReplyDeleteGiven how the Editor has demonstrated that he won’t moderate his own blog’s comment section, everyone who is participating here out of genuine goodwill should understand on their own and take it for granted that posts that are disrespectful of this blog’s reason for being (notably those that are made in French by people who speak and write English perfectly well) should be treated with the same degree of respect that is being afforded to us (that is to say, very little) and should not warrant a response (though they can participate in their own echo chamber, if they wish).
Seconded by me.
DeleteFROM ED
DeleteAlso by me. What makes it worse, old timers who should know better are doing it to communicate with the trolls. The rolls are here only to waste space on our blog. Communicating with them is wasting space on our blog which makes you no better than a troll.
I like to feel that English people are above that.Ed
This underscores what I think is an increasingly manifest issue surrounding this blog, and certainly one of the major reasons why I have stayed away from commenting here for a while.
DeleteDespite the provisions delineated in the "Netiquette", "How to Comment on This Blog", and "Making Your Voice Heard" sections accessible from the top menu on this blog, egregious violations abound. While we are admittedly all individually guilty of transgressing some of these, comparatively few attempts at long-term enforcement have been made to seriously redress this issue. And while an overly rigid application of policy would certainly make this blog less insightful and indeed a less rewarding forum in which to participate, the fact is that an overly lax one has caused it to be gangrened by the content "authored" by the very participants who regularly visit, myself included.
None of us is perfect, and we are all trolls in one way or another. We all have a point of view, an axe to grind, a story to tell, a frustration to vent, or an exception to take. But despite giving us the all the tools and channels to participate actively and maturely, social media does little to impose on all of us corresponding duties of thoughtfulness, articulateness, and maturity. The result is the echo chamber and flame forum into which this comment section has degenerated.
Editor, you're more than first among equals here. And while I wholeheartedly endorse and share your generally libertarian stance to comment moderation, you certainly can't ignore how rather than engage in serious discussions of subject matters that many feel are serious social and political issues, many violations have poisoned your blog's comment section and deleteriously impacted its overall read-worthiness. Your prerogative to assert "Don't like it? Don't read it!" is of course nearly absolute. But then so too is your obligation to live with the repercussions.
Don't get me wrong, your written pieces and investigative analysis are generally excellent (especially for a retiree doing this in his leisure time). They are likewise worthy and often superior opponents to much of the nationalist literature out there secreted by self-styled "opinion leaders", "media pundits", and "commentators" whose bombast and star power is clearly more about name recognition, ratings, and oversized ego than it is about sharing a point of view or engaging readers in thought exercises. "Give a man a mask"... indeed.
You seriously need to do something about this comments section though. Your welcoming differing points of view from the opposing side (unlike, say, Louis Préfontaine who in his time deleted more of my genuinely articulated blog comments than I care to remember, save for a few that either suited his pig-headed and fanatical agenda or to maintain a razor-thin veneer of "balance") is not only laudable, but of course vital if a serious meeting-place of ideas is to be established here.
(1/2)
But your taking the high road has also allowed many of your own "readers" to make a mockery out of your forbearance, benevolence, and otherwise worthy project. To be sure, some of your posters have been and are excellent, and include some individuals with whom I am often largely or completely at variance. But in my humble appreciation, their excellence is drowned out by the putrid mass of wanton and riotous style that too often reigns supreme for a blog whose authorship is of a much higher caliber. How are you going to balance freedom of speech, a welcoming platform, and a handful of people hell bent on lowering the level of discussion effectively to one unworthy of even four year-olds?
DeleteDeath by a thousand cuts is still death. S.R probably said it best in an answer to me last post; he gets a high being the one-liner agent provocateur. And with your tacit blessing, he has ensconced himself here in the combined roles of jester, fool, maker of vapid threats, and sayer of a thousand one-liners. Never does he miss an opportunity to remind us of the bounty that are your openness and tolerance which together enable his "bang et re-bang!" fly-by-night, gangland-style missives. How about the lifelong "student" who "mates" his way through interactions via disparagingly pointless derailments and non-sequiturs? Or the erstwhile and unconscious saccharine intolerance of yore that lives on through neatly defecated nuggets of bigotry awkwardly left out to harden? Or those of us who take your blog seriously enough to respond to such missives, not so much out of an primal desire to perpetuate such cancerous behavior but by considering how leaving such comments unanswered fuels the tacit perception among many on the opposing side that we are collectively unable to concretely acknowledge such provocations, or worse, that we are unable to articulate both the broad strokes and details inherent to our opposing points of view.
Please respond with a serious post (or blog piece) on how you feel about this, Editor. I'm willing to stop reading your blog and a while ago gave up reading many of the comments because their regular consumption amounted to a waste of time that only furthered my belief - on this day of atonement no less - in the need for another flood.
Editor,I have to agree with Apparatchik.
DeleteWhile your blog policies were established with the best of intentions,they serve a far greater role to the seppies who litter your comments section than anything else.
It's infuriating to see federalist comments on this blog deleted by you because they violate your rules, only for very vile French comments to be left standing because you don't understand what is written.
What I'm trying to say is, remember who you started this blog for in the first place.
Did you start this blog to be a nice little "bloke" to the seppies and open dialog?
Or did you launch this blog knowing that there is no dialog to be had with the Vigile.Nets of the province?
Are you trying to be a martyr?
Just like Apparatchik, I can leave this blog too.
Please keep in mind that democracy only applies to those who recognize it.
S.R, Student, Y.L, Michel Patrice and Vive le Quebec Libre don't recognize democracy.
If they did NO ONE would be here debating with them.
We'd all be busy minding our own business.
Food for thought, Editor.
@anonymous coward
Delete"only for very vile French comments to be left standing because you don't understand what is written."
please post an example of a very vile french comment that the editor did not understand.
"Just like Apparatchik, I can leave this blog too."
i dare you.
"Student, (...) don't recognize democracy."
false. i recognize democracy.
"Food for thought, Editor."
fastfood for sure.
@appartachik
Deleteapart from the line about me, i agree with you. how are we supposed to have a discussion when serial bashers like cutie003, anonymous coward, anectote, durham, quebeker of tree stump, johnny rotten, ed, james wolfe, un gars bs de frankfort, cebeuq and equanimity keep jumping in with more barks?
i can cope with it, but i can understand others might choose to go elsewhere instead of spending time reading hate speech.
Yannick, no one said French is forbidden. People *are* allowed to write in French, just as they *are* allowed to be ignored. The Editor said at the time that he allowed French postings for people who would otherwise have difficulty expressing themselves in English but so far, this has hardly, if ever, been the case.
DeleteThe Editor also says “we are a blog about the English and Anglo experience in Quebec”* and yet you yourself often try to hijack the blog with repeated stories about how hard your grandpa back in New Brunswick had it back in the day.
* See: http://nodogsoranglophones.blogspot.ca/p/how-to-comment-on-this-blog.html
The Editor is also well aware (as are we) that some people abuse his tolerance in order to drive others away from participating. It seems that even he himself is now caving in to the carpet bombing. Believe it or not, in August 2010 he wrote: “Purposefully antagonizing other people on the Internet, is known as TROLLING and I am reluctantly informing everyone that as of midnight tonight it will no longer be tolerated… I believe that some of this trolling has been done to get people off this blog and I notice that some of the regular posters are shying away. So for all you trollers out there, take advantage of the next few hours to launch your best zingers, because as of midnight -HASTA LA VISTA!”
Read it for yourself here:
http://nodogsoranglophones.blogspot.ca/2010/08/trolling-purposefully-antagonizing.html
In 2012, he wrote: “As regular readers might have noticed, I've unfortunately had to crack down on one-line insults that bring nothing to this blog. It serves no purpose to go through 200 comments where 50-75 are pure trash, with no redeeming value. I'd rather have 10-15 well thought out contributions, than 200 idiotic and insulting posts.”
Read it for yourself here:
http://nodogsoranglophones.blogspot.ca/2012/01/sunday-housekeeping-trolls.html
Now in 2013, he wrote: “One of the reasons I allow trolls to post is to remind readers in what environment we live, their insignificant and content-less missives, a testament to their mindless dogma. Trolls are a good barometer of how much we bother French-language militants and the more we attract, the more damage I know we are inflicting.”
Read it for yourself here:
http://nodogsoranglophones.blogspot.ca/2013/01/of-trolls-and-other-minutiae.html
This is all well and good except that it doesn’t address carpet bombing trolls who are trying to drive people away. Ignoring them is fine, but if they don’t occasionally get a reply, it looks like it’s open season on anglos.
However, it appears the Editor refuses to acknowledge that some changes are required. At the top of every page on his blog, it says that he believes his free-for-all commenting policy will get people to “tell the truth”. However, any objective review would have to conclude that realistically, his policy has largely resulted in attracting repetitive cranks and extremists (on both sides) while driving away moderate people, thus diminishing the value of his blog.
This situation could be alleviated somewhat if only the Editor would update his blog interface to a contemporary blog interface that gave you more control in how one views the comments. Perhaps he is worried that some people would have trouble adapting to more modern features, but we don’t actually know his reasons for refusing to do this since he won’t discuss it with his so-called “dear readers”.
One thing is certain: as long as the Editor finds it wise to continue to provide a soapbox for repetitive nuisance posters who have never once commented on his posts, the status quo (or worse) is all that can be expected for the foreseeable future.
Yes, student would have all federalists expelled from the blog that was set up for federalist anglophones. What a joke he is. Hopefully the editor will start taking out his nonsensical, inane, stupid questions and comments.
DeleteChénier dit: La tolérance est aussi dans l`usage de la langue commune du Québec qui est le français. J'écris donc dans la langue officielle...:)
ReplyDeleteFrom The Economist, arguably the world’s most important and impartial newsmagazine, making Quebec look stupid by its own accord, once again. Thanks, PQ!
ReplyDeleteQuebec’s identity politics
WHEN IS A CRUCIFIX NOT RELIGIOUS?
When it is the object of an electoral calculation
Sep 14th 2013 | MONTREAL
http://www.economist.com/news/americas/21586338-when-it-object-electoral-calculation-when-crucifix-not-religious
MOST people would agree that the crucifix that hangs prominently in Quebec’s provincial legislature is a Roman Catholic symbol. As such it should be banned under proposals Quebec’s government released on September 10th aimed at enshrining secularism in provincial law. But in the French-speaking province of 8.1m, where the majority still identify themselves as Catholics even if they no longer bother with church, removing the crucifix would be a step too far. So in its proposed ban on the display of “conspicuous” religious symbols in public buildings or by public employees, the ruling Parti Québécois made an exception for “items of cultural heritage”. Not surprisingly, these turn out to be Catholic.
As in France, which banned headscarves in classrooms in 2004 and veils in public places in 2010, the real target of the proposals is the tiny minority of non-Catholic Quebeckers who wear headscarves or turbans. As in France it has fuelled a divisive debate, in this case pitting Montreal, with most of Quebec’s 1m immigrants, against the rest of Quebec; Catholics against non-Catholics; and Quebec against the rest of Canada. Naheed Nenshi, the Muslim mayor of Calgary, called the charter “social suicide” and invited unhappy Quebeckers to move to Alberta.
Still, there is political method in the seeming madness of the minority PQ government, led by Pauline Marois. The public does not support independence from Canada, the cause for which her party was founded. But French-speakers are permanently anxious about protecting their language and culture. Her attempt to impose stricter language rules was blocked by opposition parties. But opinion polls suggest that a “secularism” which makes concessions to Catholicism commands the support of a majority.
This is not the first time that religious issues have been a political football in Canada’s second-most-populous province. In 2007 the minority Liberal government of Jean Charest almost fell during a divisive debate about such issues. One involved a request by orthodox Jews that a Montreal YMCA frost its windows so children attending a nearby synagogue would not see people exercising in skimpy clothing. Others concerned decisions by two maple-syrup shacks (ie, restaurants) to accommodate Muslim customers by taking pork off the menu, and to allow a dance hall to be used temporarily as a mosque.
Mr Charest’s solution was to appoint a commission headed by two academics, Gérard Bouchard and Charles Taylor. They found that Quebec’s identity was not under threat. But they also suggested that the government spell out secular values, prohibit public servants with a coercive role, such as police or judges, from wearing religious symbols, and remove the crucifix from the legislative chamber, placing it instead in a museum in the National Assembly. The PQ proposal goes further by banning all public servants from wearing religious symbols. When details leaked last month Mr Taylor called them “Putinesque” and compared them to the crackdown on homosexuals in Russia.
Others say the charter is an awkward solution to a minor problem. For example, it is not clear whether long beards would be classed as a religious symbol, or whether Jews could claim that skullcaps are a symbol of cultural heritage. And as France knows, enforcing a ban on headscarves in classrooms can be difficult. Even Bernard Drainville, the PQ minister responsible for the charter, appeared flummoxed when asked whether the bible would still to be used to swear public oaths.
Philippe Couillard, whose opposition Liberals are riding high in the opinion polls, says the proposal puts fundamental freedoms at risk and will divide rather than unite Quebeckers. François Legault, leader of the third-party Coalition for the Future of Quebec, calls them “too radical”. Both accuse the government of creating a false crisis to avoid talking about the sluggish Quebec economy.
DeleteBut Ms Marois has not spent more than three decades fighting in the PQ trenches without learning the power of identity politics. With her “secular” charter she may have found a winning issue. Some in Quebec believe that the legislative debate on the proposed ban will be followed by a snap election.
Yep - definitely time for Montreal, the Outaouais and the Pontiac to separate from the rest of quebec. Let them have their "secular" "pur laine francophone only" ghetto with the rest of the province. We need to get rid of these people; economically and socially for the sake of our survival.
DeleteYou forgot Eastern townships peg :)
DeleteBut even if we go to the old borders montreal and the outaouais belong to Québec. So you might as well pack up drive across the champlain bridge into ottawa and dont come back. Sorry to crush your seperatist dreams.
DeleteMontreal is a distinct society. Leave Montreal alone.
DeleteSo you might as well pack up your dreams and drive up to Jonquière. Sorry to crush your dreams.
Vive le Quebec, you do know that the treatment of francophones in Canada as second class citizens intensified nationalist consciousness in the Quebecois and triggered the separatist sentiment.
DeleteDon't be surprised that you are finding yourselves at the receiving end of the very same phenomenon.
Borders will be re-drawn in accordance with the wishes of the people that reside in areas that want out of quebec. Borders are only where people want them to be. Put a fence around yourselves; we want nothing to do with you.
DeleteDumont et Djemila Benhabib: Doit-on craindre la montée de l'islam politique au Québec ?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8SaHwP2My8
98% ont répondu : Oui
Attaboy!
So the listeners of the tv show of the former head of the ADQ, who pushes for cracking down on religious accommodations and bumped the PQ out of the 2nd place political party spot based on xenophobia, during a segment with an author saying we should be afraid of Muslims, overwhelmingly are afraid of Muslims? Shocking!(also no poll numbers are given and its clearly non-scientific)
DeleteThat's like asking who hates black people at a klan rally and saying "oooh look, 98% don't!" kind of meaningless.
Let's talk about me some more!
ReplyDeletePQ presses private sector to follow its lead on secular workplaces:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/pq-presses-private-sector-to-follow-its-lead-on-secular-workplaces/article14268573/
JF
ReplyDeleteWhat the Peqistani losership fail to grasp is at this very moment, decisions to not invest in Quebec are being made by global operations robbing us of well paying jobs and much needed tax revenue. Potential immigrants (Muslim and non-Muslim) are striking Montreal off their short list. The divesent in Quebec started months ago. Drive along the T-Can and count the "A Louer" rent signs. This sideshow is hurting our economy. With no economy we have nothing, we become Detroit. Countries, States and Cities are fighting to attract jobs and we encourage them to relocate elsewhere. My anger at the political class in Quebec for knocking Montreal down to a branch office city is unshakeable. We had the golden goose and we punted it down the 401 because of idealist well-to-do politicians. A bilingual, European beachhead in the heart of North America and we let them piss it away. Here is one giant Fuck You to the PQ and any asshole that voted for them!
"...and we punted it down the 401 because of idealist well-to-do politicians."
Deleteyeah. ideals are so much overrated mate. nobody should bother with stupid ideals. err...
No one should bother with stupid ideals, but the PQ sure seem to! (Rimshot)
Delete@whowhatsit
Deletewhat stupid ideal does the pq bother with?!? (my follow up question will be why is it stupid, so you might want to include some substance right away.)
FROM ED
ReplyDeleteTo those who are expounding the division of the province, proceed carefully. The only place fully against "The Marois Plan' if I might coin a phrase, is Montreal proper. Other English areas could be left out just by tghe number of Francophones or immigrants who think it's a good idea. Change comes slowly. many insecure would rather just go along than take a chance. This explains the reelection of people like George Bush, Brian Mulroney and the PQ. It's best to watch the liberals results coming in. Areas that support the Liberals would opt for Canada. Ed
From CBC One Radio’s medical show, “White Coat, Black Art”, this morning’s episode was about racist patients. Hard to believe, I know, but it includes an eye-opening segment by a Montreal doctor who discusses his experiences with racist patients, which he says happens about once a month. Apparently, some patients assume that this doctor, a Sikh who is from Brossard, is somehow not qualified, making racist comments right in front of him as if he weren't fluent in French.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cbc.ca/whitecoat/2013/09/01/when-the-patient-is-racist/
But you Drainville says we need the charter of "values", because some "ethnics" request having a doctor be of the same sex as them. Odd how they keep touting equality of the sexes as being a large part of it, yet I've yet to hear anything about equality based on race? I mean sure both are already covered in the charter of rights and freedoms, but they only mention sex for some reason....also odd Drainville automatically assumes that if "ethnics" ask for a doctor of the same sex it's because of religious reasons.
Deletehow many patients does the sikh doctor see every month?
Delete@Student
DeletePlease kill yourself.
@johnny rotten
Deleteyou're about to lose it mate. rein yourself in.
Lost what?
DeleteMy sense of inclusiveness?
My ability to accept those who are different than myself?
What I an losing?
My "Quebec Libre" includes freedom of language, religion and skin colour.
So, I guess that's what I'm losing as long as people like you are around...
...so please, go with my original comment, and hang yourself.
Instead of telling others how to live, it's probably better that you put an end to your own life instead.
@johnny rotten
Deletehow can you claim inclusiveness and send your neighbor to hell in the same comment? puzzling isn't it?
As to student's, I'm assuming rhetorical question since he couldn't be bothered to look it up himself, ER doctors see about 2 patients an hour and their shifts have been cut down to 8 hours assuming the work 5 days a week, multiply that by 4 weeks: around 1 in 320 patients he sees are overtly racist to the point they say something (like calling him a terrorist, real classy).
Delete0.3%. negligible amount of overtly racist patients. i'm impressed. i had read somewhere (was it here?) that quebeckers were racists. now we know it's not true.
DeleteFROM ED
ReplyDeleteR.S. I'd like to point out that the cross is not just a Roman catholic symbol, it is also the leading sign of Anglican, baptist and all other Christian Churches. The roman catholic Church thinks it is the only Church and Pope benedict 16 actually said they are the only Church and all others are imitations. he had little understanding of the word ecumenism.
Since a man's religion is
FROM ED
ReplyDeleteSorry I got confused. Since a man's religion is rightfully between him and God he only needs to carry a small Cross to show his devotion. Large Crosses are for people who want to wear their religion on their sleeve. The Cross in parliament is a meaningless thing. It is really between no one and God. It has no meaning except perhaps for the person who put it their. It does not belong to the Roman Catholic Churtch. Ed
Nine out of 10 lawyers agree that the Quebec Charter of Values is unconstitutional:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/is-quebecs-secular-charter-constitutional-nine-legal-experts-weigh-in/article14324825/?cmpid=rss1&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
It doesn;t matter if it passes this time.
DeleteIt's publicity they are after in the "no donation" political world. Parties need things like this to create media events and build the party.
The PQ just want enough votes to get a proper majority. Then they can go hog wild with craziness and nastiness for their fellow inhabitants.
Really PQ members with pride need to think about regrouping in a smaller homeland.
Forget about Montreal and Laval. Too many immigrants anglo's and corruption. Jettison the whole deal.
Regeroup in Quebec City with Sherbrooke as a second.
Forget about Labrador. That's too far gone already.
Redefine the boundaries of new Quebec and they can get where they want to go tomorrow. They can be opening up "export camps" a couple weeks later. They won;t have to play games with language then!
+10
DeleteThe church started by Jesus choosing Peter to build his church and that church today is the true catholic church. All other christian denominations branched off the original church.
ReplyDeleteso what? it's still just another sect, mate. a big one.
DeleteYou simply decide to ignore orthodox church.
Deletehttp://www2.macleans.ca/2013/09/14/more-than-a-thousand-march-in-montreal-to-protest-quebec-values-charter/
ReplyDeletehttp://news.nationalpost.com/2013/09/13/quebec-economy-burns-while-parti-quebecois-fiddles-with-ethnic-divisions/
DeleteIt's about the economy stupid!
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2013/09/12/charter_of_shame_marks_a_sad_season_for_quebec.html#
Delete...and this is why I love Quebec 2012-2013.
ReplyDeleteLast year, students marched for what THEY believed was right. The result? Their demands were proven unsustainable. Despite that fact, questions were raised.
Now, it's the turn of Quebec's immigrant community to swarm the streets.
Unlike the students, they have something REAL and worthwhile to protest.
Whether we're talking about 5-cent pseudo-socialist subsidies for future career welfare recipients...or hard working immigrants fighting to protect their essential rights, this is a very exciting time in Quebec.
History is about to be made...
...so long as a politician with balls does what needs to be done (that's the only downside. Every politician in Quebec is an impotent, vision-less dweeb with only his/her own career aspirations at heart.).
With the mass demonstration today - which was not yet to its full potential since Jewish community did not participate because of Yom Kippur - and the case of Maria Mourani, I hope that it is a good omen that this experiment is blowing up on the PQ's face and will further undermine the separatist movement.
ReplyDeleteWell this pretty much rips the PQs justifications for the Charter apart
ReplyDeletehttp://www.huffingtonpost.ca/irwin-cotler/parti-quebecois-myths_b_3922866.html?utm_hp_ref=tw
So can we just get rid of this heinous legislation and get on to actually important things now?
I thank Pauline Marois and the PQ for making the vast majority of the small number of ethnics that supported them, against them and probably pushing them to support Partition of Quebec.
ReplyDeleteI'm also glad that Maria Mourani won't get reelected again because the vast majority of the small ethnic vote that was crucial for her being elected won't vote seppie ever again. Rude awakening realizing that they were useful idiots.
"the vast majority of the small ethnic vote that was crucial for her being elected won't vote seppie ever again"
DeleteFor one thing, Ahuntsic has been redistricted for the upcoming election.
For another, an overwhelmingly federalist and more often than not Liberal district seems to have voted for her not so much because they all suddenly became separatist, but because the candidate happened to be Arab and had done sufficient outreach among the de souche and emerging Levantine/Maghrebi demographic, particularly east of the Main.
LD
ReplyDelete"Adil Charkaoui, spokesperson for the Quebec Collective Against Islamophobia, described the coming demonstration as an initial step in a series of actions planned to derail the Parti Québécois government’s plan.
He told a news conference Thursday that other steps would include support for any women targeted by the proposed legislation, including provision of legal assistance.
Charkaoui also said Muslims would be encouraged to learn English and become bilingual – not so they could leave Quebec, but so they could stay in Montreal and fight for their rights."
Sep 12, Ottawa Citizen. http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Multicultural+protest+held+Saturday+against+plan+charter/8904555/story.html
In other words, forget the French Only brainwashing the Quebecois taught you when you immigrated here, it's all bullshit meant to control and keep you down. Learn English, know your rights as a Canadian Citizen First and Foremost and let the Quebecois Tribe survive or die on its own with no backing from us anymore. Devastatingly bad news for the Separatists that have tried for YEARS to sway immigrant populations to follow them down into their Separatist rabbit hole. Almost as bad as hitting the reset button on Bill 101. Any overtures to the Muslim community by the Separatists will be shot down and met with disdain for a long time.
@ld
Deletecharkaoui is your new leader mate?
If we use the "logic" that an occasional convergence of views means leadership, then Charkaoui is also the leader of the QS, CAQ, PLQ, the federal Liberals, Conservatives, and the NDP.
Delete