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| Applebaum arrest pictures |
What surprised me about the arrest was not that it happened, but rather how it happened.
The mayor was woken early this morning, arrested and driven down to the police headquarters with reporters tipped off and the car hauling him in conveniently stopping before going into the police garage, providing a photo-op that is the modern version of the perp-walk.
That disrespectful treatment is reserved for those arrests that police are most proud of and so without knowing any of the details, I can only conclude that the police have Applebaum dead to rights.
That Quebec is the most corrupt province in Canada is certainly proven beyond any reasonable doubt but the logical conclusion that Quebecers are the most dishonest people in Canada doesn't follow.
I know that I'll be offering an unpopular view today, but I cannot in good conscious listen to the ROC gleefully gloat without defending the good people of Quebec who are by and large humiliated and furious at those that betrayed the public trust.
If guillotining was permitted, there would no doubt be an enraged mob marching on city hall, shouting "Off with their heads!"
I wouldn't recommend that any of the crooks who will face corruption trials choose to be tried before a jury. Quebecers are just itching to get revenge and no defense, no matter how robust, will save any of these bums from being convicted.
And so I am going to say that Quebec is well on its way to rehabilitation and I daresay that within a few short years it will be one of the least corrupt places in North America.
Yup....I mean it.
Like a drug addict who has to fall to the lowest point before seeking help, Quebec has certainly hit rock bottom and it is here where we can collectively decide to wallow in our own mess or clean up our act for good.
Quebec and Quebecers have chosen. Corruption will soon end, believe me.
Now regular readers know I spend a fair amount of time in New York City and hardly a visit goes by where I don't read a news story of some new public official arrested for corruption in a state where dishonest politicians are legend and where corruption has been part and parcel of the political process forever.
The corruption is so pervasive that dozens of members of the State legislature, both Democrat and Republican have been arrested over the last decade.
Things never seem to change and currently there is a new crop of legislators facing indictment;
"The state of New York's legislature, whose dysfunction has long proved a spectator sport, added a new chapter Wednesday as public-corruption investigations that have touched five officials in the past month brought seven more elected officials into public scrutiny" Link
"The latest, former Democratic state Sen. Shirley Huntley, was sentenced Thursday to spend a year and a day in prison for stealing $88,000 from a charity she controlled. A day earlier, a federal judge had unsealed records showing that Huntley last year secretly recorded conversations with seven other elected officials she suspected of corruption.By the way, if Shirley Huntley got one year in jail for stealing $88,000, I can only imagine what our Quebec crooks would get for stealing millions....but I digress.
Among them were Malcolm Smith and John Sampson, both former Democratic leaders of the Senate who have already been indicted.
"It's a culture of corruption, there's no question about it," said Seymour Lachman, a former Democratic state senator. "It's very sad that you have at this point in New York state, the Empire State, more corrupt officials than any other state."
Read: How New York Became One Of The Most Corrupt States
At any rate, I bring up the New York State corruption situation because quite frankly there really hasn't been enough public outrage to force politicians to clean up their act and so as you can imagine, corruption persists.
I imagine that I'll be reading about more crooked New York politicians for the foreseeable future because nothing will change with the apathetic attitude demonstrated by the public. They don't really seem to care and in fact regularly re-elect politicians that have less than clean hands.
Today the name of ex-mayor Rudolph Giuliani is being bandied about for a possible presidential run, yet serious accusations about his judgement in his personal and professional life don't seem to bother voters. Read a damning piece about his honesty.
But this lack of interest by the public is most certainly not the case here in Quebec. The public and voters in particular, are royally pissed.
There isn't a chance in Hell of forgiving those who cheated and stole, the public is in no mood to be charitable.
The demand to root out, arrest and prosecute those who cheated taxpayers remains the number one issue of all Quebecers, transcending all political, religious, race and language lines.
If Applebaum and Saulie Zajdel (a counselor arrested along with Applebaum) are eventually convicted of corruption, there won't be an ounce of support for them in the Jewish community. Already waves of humiliation are rocking the community over the arrests.
The same goes for the Italian community, the Francophone and Anglophone community as well as the Black community, all deeply hurt and humiliated at the dishonor brought upon them by the alleged crooks.
In this province, unlike New York, those convicted or even accused of corruption become toxic and untouchable.
Already many of those who testified at the Charbonneau commission and who received immunity for candidly describing their illegal involvement in corruption are feeling the wrath of an unsympathetic public. One by one, they are being pushed out by their employers who no longer want to be associated with them. And good luck finding a new job, because for potential employers, these people are radioactive.
In 2009 a reluctant Premier Charest did in fact set Quebec on the road to redemption.
The creation of the Charbonneau Commission and more importantly UPAC (Permanent Anti-Corruption Unit) whose raison d'etre is described by its commander;
"Our job is to prevent, investigate and verify in the fight against crimes related to corruption, collusion and fraud in the awarding and execution of public contracts. "-Robert LafrenièreThe key in all this is the word 'permanent' where Quebec is the only province to have such a high-powered full-time anti-corruption unit in force.
During the Charbonneau hearings, one theme that was oft repeated by many of the slimy crooks who testified, was that corruption virtually ceased with the creation of the UPAC unit back in 2009.
With corruption on everybody's mind, Quebecers will be monitoring how their money is being spent very closely.
Concerned citizens , along with UPAC will be placing the fear of God in those tempted to graft.
Unlike the drug trade, corruption is not a zero-sum game.
When one drug dealer is arrested, another promptly takes his place, but when someone is arrested for corruption, it is like shaving your legs, where the next batch of hair grows back finer and more slowly.
Next year will see the beginning of the many trials of the alleged thieves and I can only hope that if and when they are found guilty, that the judge throws the book at them.
In the meantime the hardest part is over, admitting to a problem and embarking on the cure. It is manifestly apparent that Quebecers want to be corruption free and ordinary citizens themselves are showing those in power that they mean business.
No longer will town council meetings be sterile affairs, sparsely attended by a complacent public. People will ask questions and demand transparency, which is of course, the key to eliminating corruption.
If you are one of those who believe that Quebecers are inherently more dishonest than Canadians, you are probably one that believes in other negative stereotypes.
Calling Quebecers a gang of thieves is no different than saying the same about Blacks, Jews or Italians, where not many would dare say so out loud.
This dark period of arrests is the beginning of the end of systemic corruption in Quebec, because honest Quebecers will tolerate nothing less.
You know I really hope your right Editor. I have been thinking the same too..can things get any worse here in Montreal..perhaps not. On the other hand this city has been racked by corruption for decades. Do you really think it will go away that easily?? I am from western Canada and there really is a culture here of dishonesty..I see it all the time with many different faces both in private and public enterprise. Its a way of life here so honestly I dont think things will improve that much..maybe for a few years all will be quiet but it will come back.
ReplyDelete@complicated
Delete"Do you really think it will go away that easily??"
that easily?!?! dude in 8 months or so, six mayors, three of them from the biggest cities in quebec and a provincial government have fallen. many new laws have passed and a public enquiry have been put in place. tha mafia is being attacked. at least one civil servant has killed himself. the enquiry is meant to last a few years! yesterday's rumors are now turning into facts. it's only the beginning and i don't think any of this is "easy" for anyone but you.
it's worth noting, in my humble opinion, that the whole vaillancourt gang is liberal federalists. they were part of charest's strategy for laval ridings (ask mulcair for details). gerald tremblay was a federalist liberal minister. i can only guess what procincial party did applebaum and zampino owed their vote to...!
Uh huh..there were commissions in the 1970s about corruption. We have been hearing about corruption and abusive union practices for decades...do you really think things will change because they got rid of a few politicians now. Remeber all the crap that went on during the 1976 olympics..nothing has changed since then..we are still getting fleeced by construction companies. The problem student is that corruption and dishonesty is almost ingrained in Montreal culture..its the way things work here. People gloat about how they rip off the system..how little they work..how they called in sick when they werent sick. Its not just construction companies..its spread to all walks of society..everyone is trying to get something they dont deserve. The students figured out how to extort money from everyone by shutting streets down week after week because they couldnt afford the cheapest tuition fees in North American.
DeleteCustomer service is almost unknown here..Montreal is by far the city with the worst customer service I have ever seen in North America. I have lived in 6 other canadian cities and have visited at least 10 other North American cities. Montreal is horrible..I am always shocked when I go elsewhere and people actually try to serve me and treat me with respect. Here its almost seen as foolish to work hard and try to help people. You can see it in peoples movements..the slow shuffling of the feet..the disinterested look..the vague and useless responses one often gets from workers here..the guilty look from bored workers eyes.
When I look at what happened in Greece..what is happening in Spain and France I dont see any real hope that Montreal will change. Without the billions in dollars flowing in here from the rest of Canada all of this would be totally unsustaiable. Montreal continues to have a sugar daddy in the form of Canada but one day I suspect that will be cut off and then good luck. Wait until some real cuts come in then all the spoiled brats here will trash the city.
@complicated
Deletethe cliche commission, if that's what you're refering to, targeted the unions directly. and it only lasted six months. the current enquiry targets politicians, engineers, construction companies and political party financing. and unions turn will come too, if they have a responsibility in the current state of affairs. it looks much broader to me than anything from the 70s. if it carries on bringing down politicians and other big cheeses like it did up to now, i am confident a new climate could emerge. it already does, as is shown by this http://tinyurl.com/m86k3kh . quebec solidaire that collects more than the lpq?!?!? doesn't this show the paradigm is reversing? good news for democracy. it means politics is coming back in the hands of normal people. slipping away from interested corporation's dirty hands. this is happening right now, complicated. in quebec.
and when french canadians realize the last crop of liberals were the political link in a money extracting scheme from public to private well they might just disappear. we can hope for a union nationale kind of fate for them.
and the anglos? well i expect they'll carry on being a mono issue block. who's federalist? you? cool, here's my vote. the anglo vote hasn't commanded an ample analysis lately. and when you read contributors here claiming nothing has been proven against the liberals, or that one of their heros, after being cuffed with fourteen counts of fraud, might be innocent after all, well you think this is not going to change soon.
While I admire your optimism, the commission will only put a dent in corruption there needs to be a top to the bottom reckoning in all of the public service, but that won't happen because politicians don't want to buttheads with the unions and honest people can't get into politics without having friends in high places or a big wallet.
DeleteI appreciate the "every corrupt mayor is really a secret Liberal Federalist" conspiracy theory, the truth is however that all the parties are dirty the PQ and their supporters included, don't forget the commission needs to slow down when former PQ-ers start to be named?
As to the funding, considering this isn't an election season the funding that has come in for the PQ or QS is from activists or idealists probably like the St. Jean baptist or Francais imperatif, normal citizens do not donate outside the election season so it says little about politics coming back to the people. QS is probably getting a boost in funding from it's stance on the protest bilaw, welfare reform etc and in the same period the PLQ had no leader so they weren't even fund raising yet, when Couillard does come out from where ever he is hiding those numbers will be much different.
Anglos are not single issue voters, the problem is the Quebec political scene is so stale there isn't much selection. You have the corrupt federalists, the corrupt separatists, the socialist separatists, the in the closet former separatists (most of whom are probably corrupt as well), or the new never going to win separatists, if one of your voting criteria is not supporting separation but don't support some of the other Liberal policies, well tough because you have no other options, what are you are a left leaning voter but don't support separation? Tough luck you'll have to vote for a separatist party. The Caq shook this up a bit but as of late they are showing their true colours, that of PQ lite.
You miss the point student. There is a culture of corruption, dishonesty and manipulation ingrained in the culture of many people in this city. A commission is not going to change that..it might throw 10-20 people in jail but it wont change the whole way of life in this city. I have seen it permeate public and private enterprise..its symptoms range from
Delete1. horrible customer service in general from a significant number of private enterprises
2. people calling in sick at levels way higher than anywhere else I have ever lived in canada
3. rigging construction contracts so that we pay 20-30 percent more than anyone else in canada
4. students extorting money from all taxpayers out of pure greed even though they will still pay the lowest tuition fees on the continent
5. a culture where its seen as cool to brag about how you were able to work as little as possible or rip off the system
6. postal workers who take days off whenever they feel like it and drive from house to house in their own car or the postal car often with the engine running..really great for the environment
7. city of montreal workers who sleep on the job..who do shopping while on the job or sit in the donut shop for hours during their shifts.
8. streets that get dug up completely for sewage repairs then totally repaved..then sections dug up a few weeks later because of a) incompetence or b) planned incompetence. I have actually seen one section of a street repaved and dug up three times within a few months..brilliant work
9. traffic lights that regularly go on the blink..often when there is no obvious reason..but I am sure it makes some repair company a lot of money
10. roads which crumble at a much faster rate than similar roads elsewhere in canada
11. bridges that fall down because of corrupt companies who purposefully built them poorly
12. fire man union throwing trucks in the river because they wanted to pressure the city to give them what they want
13. widespread laziness in the public service..from empty post offices to janitors in schools who cant even do the basic function of keeping the school clean and often the teachers end up doing their job. city workers who have to clean quiet residential streets once per week to make sure that we employ as many people as possible in the public service so we create jobs that are totally unnecessary.
14. stm employees who cant even put the effort in to speak a few words of english. stm bus drivers who will not call ahead to a connecting bus to tell them to wait a minute or less for an incoming passenger..most other cities do this but its asking too much in montreal of course.
15. an incredible level of people who pay cash for services..much much higher than any other place I have lived in canada. Even large companies such as home builders have told us we could pay cash for thousands of dollars worth of extras..its rampant here.
I think you get the pictue. I am not saying that everyone in Montreal is immoral and corrupt but from what I have seen with my own eyes and heard its at a much higher and widespread level than any other city I have everlived at in Canada. I have lived in 6 cities in this country so that is saying something and I have lived in Montreal for over 10 years. So forgive me student if I am just a bit cynical about your rosy forecast of how things will "change for the better" in Montreal. I will say that the problems in Quebec really seem to emanate from Montreal..in my experience people outside of Montreal in general are much more in line with what you see in the rest of Canada. My take on it is that too much government money from the feds and the province flow into Montreal and then the rich businessman also get involved and you end up with all sorts of games being played. Maybe someone else has another theory..
Student you are supposed to be on a sympathy strike.
DeleteBetween that and violating your right to work in french, how can you justify hanging around this board.
Do you not respect the union right to strike?
I guess the CSN havn;t managed to create "professional troll" as a union job yet.
Even with the tuition fee increases they would still have been paying the LOWEST tuition fees on the continet. The taxpayers pays about 85 percent of the cost so give me a flipping break..I think the students could get off their butt and pay a bit more. Are you honestly telling me they couldnt affors to pay 20 or 25 percent of the cost?? My wife paid more in tuition fees in Alberta in 1996 than universities charge in Quebec. Meanwhile the same students are running around taking pictures during the strike with their smartphoones. Bookings with travel agencies were up substantially during the strike as all those poor students were travelling down south..poor babies. I have zero sympathy for students..they have student loans, grants, bursaries, parents. Anybody in Quebec can afford to go to university..yes they will graduate with a debt but it wont be anything unmanageable. If they work hard and get a good job then they can pay it off pretty quickly. I paid my debt off in 2 years..I worked in the summer..worked my ass off in university to get a good job. And Quebec has the largest debt in North America and the highest taxes..the Quebec taxpayer has done more than its fair share to support post secondary education..the students should be thanking us instead of shutting the city down.
DeleteI think they were mainly thinking of themselves in the very short term. I am sure the vast majority of these students had at least a couple years left..so they would have still paid more money starting in september 2012. What did they lose..they lost nothing..maybe a few months but they saved themselves on average probably a couple thousand dollars in tuition fee increases??
DeleteI really dont believe it was out of the concern for future students. They sure as hell weren't concerend about the students who were against the strike..in fact in some cases the majority of students at some institutions were agsinst it but their voice was rarely heard. These students were physically prevented from going to their classes by the unruly ones.
When you look at all the problems we have in Quebec..high taxes, horrible infrastructure, decaying schools and hospitals, huge waiting lists in hospitals and general horrible health care services, powerful and greedy unions, corruption at all levels, and on and on..the students complaints were pretty damn petty..honestly. Maybe in Alberta where they have no debt they could actually affors to lower tuition fees but here..if anything the taxpayer ia sll tapped out..how much more money are they going to extract from taxpayers here..how much higher does the debt have to go?? I guess we need to have a Greek style collapse to wake everyone up.
@yannick
Deleteexactly.
@complicated
by claiming greed was the driving force moving the students you prove you haven't understood much about what happened. you were exposed to too much joanne marcotte and not enough josée legault i believe. you were lead along charest's anti-intellectual shortcuts, mate. it's surprising you let yourself go on this topic as you are very cunning on many others.
i suspect you suffer from the same affect as troy: you assume everyone is as selfish as you. this skews your readings.
Yannik you are working from the assumption Quebec students use facts and logic to make decisions.
DeleteThey don;t.
The logic is hard for them to grasp. Paying any amount of money for anything "seems unfair" so they protest.
None of the students that protested are going to be employed by anything except the construction industry or the Quebec govt.
Students that have work prospects in business, sciences, engineering, management did not support the student boycott (strike? check your dictionary. It's not 1984 except in the USA right now).
It's only the unemployable students that decided to derail their "education". That's because it wasn;t an education leading to much.
There are only so many positions open in Quebec universities for the self re-inforcing cycle of Quebec studies. After that Quebec has already created as many museums and artistic directors and grants it can think of.
These are just the future PQ union members learning strike tactics. "Strike University Studies". Seriously tho. Being a boycotting student should be a credit course in Quebec. It's discriminating against them to give them a zero and kick them to the curb like business will do for the rest of their lives.
They live are in the "I just left home and it's so exciting to have my first apartment" stage. Now they have to pay for it. It's much more fun to go get drunk, rant about conservatives, big business and oil and parade around demanding free education forever.
In another year or two they will be coaxed into their new lives in the construction union, civil service, hydro Quebec or the generally unemployable.
Pretending that the student boycott was anything other then Quebec unions and other politically motivated leftists agitating through the students is just revisionist history.
Nobody in any of the aforementioned groups was ever capable of starting microsoft to start with.
All the young people with real potential paid no attention to this crap. They were too busy living their own life (they probably left Quebec already).
Anybody heard of "vice".com
As the founder said of the company move from montreal to ny, "If you are big in Montreal, you are big in Montreal. If you are big in Toronto you are big in Canada. If you are big in New York, you are big in the world."
Quebec students? They are big in their own minds.
"I guess we need to have a Greek style collapse to wake everyone up."
Deletet'inquiète pas.... it's coming
FROM ED
ReplyDeleteThe arrest of Mayor Applebaum is indeed a surprise. When his former boss was taken he didn't act the least bit nervous. he certainly didn't look like a man who had something to hide.. I wonder if some one is involving him to take the onus off themselves. Perhaps just to get help to pay the lawyers they need..
Ed
good writing, editor. keep it up!
ReplyDeleteDHockeyGuy
ReplyDeleteI can't say I'm surprised in regards to the arrest of Applebaum. I've always found something slippery about him, especially the way he manouvered himself into the mayor's seat. As you say editor, the police must have ironclad evidence to take him down in such a public and high profile manner.
While many might disagree, I actually think the cleanest guy in the whole lot is probably Gerald Tremblay. I've always gotten the feeling that Tremblay is/was a good guy but a fairly naive politician and the real crooks (Executive Committee, etc...) were easily able to go about their business of corruption in the shadows.
I hope that these guys get SERIOUS jail time, hopefully the max. It might finally dissuade some of these white collar crooks.
@dhockeyguy
Delete"I've always found something slippery about him..."
of course. the slippery thing being he was part of both union montreal and the city's executive commitee. that some pundits believed he was clean is beyond me.
I'm not sure they do have ironclad evidence, they are however killing his career not 4 months after the police union head made a threat to that effect. They make a public showing of him, get him kicked out and maybe his replacement gives them the schedules they want. In a province so filled with untouchable corrupt unions I wouldn't put it past them, not the first time unions have interfered with politics, the student protests was a very visible example of that. Who watches the watchmen?
ReplyDeletePut it to you this way - since it's a game of "innocent until proven guilty" and the first person to call for Applebaum's resignation was Louise "Power Hoe" Harel...kinda seems suspect.
ReplyDeleteWithout actually defending Applebaum in any way...something just feels strange about all this.
Am I the only one to feel this?
Well coward I hope you're right. I too have a strange feeling about all this. Jewish, anglophone, put himself out there without any hesitation even though he knew that they were pulling his records, all of this just seems too convenient. That guy is right about the strength of the unions in this province also; they are very capable of ruining people and have plenty of pull with the right people to get away with it. We shall see what we shall see I guess; would be nice if just one of them one unjustly accused. The Editor is seeing and hearing things I'm not; in my daily conversations with people, none of them to be upset about all this - just business as usual in quebec but I don't live in Montreal so maybe there is more anger on the streets there than here.
Delete@cutie003
Delete"...would be nice if just one of them one unjustly accused."
haha. fourteen counts of fraud and corruption and she's ready to believe the dude's clean. hahaha. you're such a scam, mate.
Effectivement,elle a quelque chose qui ne tourne pas rond dans l'ciboulot.
DeleteI agree with the foregoing, i.e., it seems arresting Applebaum was too easy. I think he's being used to deflect bigger, badder perps in the game off the track. Will the teflon Tony Accurso be swept up in the vortex, or the current mahb bawse whose name alludes me and I'm not wasting a second on researching it? Wake me up when the kingpins start to fall.
DeleteOn Sunday, 60 Minutes ran a story about the arrest of Mr. Big in the Panama drug trade. Big deal! Don't get me wrong, it is good news, albeit nothing more than killing a flea on a St. Bernard, but better one flea than none. It's not as if that void won't be filled by someone else sooner or later.
I must say though that this was a welcome diversion in Toronto city government; nevertheless, in defence of Rob Ford, that alleged video of his doing crack is still alleged. The asking price for that piece of alleged infamy was $200K, the money was raised to buy the smoking gun, yet the gun is nowhere to be found.
Rob Ford must have pissed off someone sometime ago at the Toronto Star, because they are the ones front and center after his head. The population is split between those thinking Ford is the victim of a smear job (I remember Conrad Black using those words, and heaven knows he only got nailed on a relatively minor charge out of countless charges against him, but his fortune was shaved a bit in lawyer fees), and those who dislike him enough to want to believe he's tainted. So where is this evidence against Rob Ford?
Mr Sauga - the trolls only bring up the senate and Rob Ford to distract from the daily arrests of the francophone mafia crooks in this province. What else are they going to do? There is no defence of the utter dishonesty at every level of government, from the lowly secretary to the presidents of companies of private industry, that is rampant in quebec. They just do their usual thing - bring up something from somewhere else and try to make it look as bad as quebec which is impossible. What makes us think that the people that are doing the investigating and arresting are any different? In quebec it's hard to have any faith in anyone anymore.
DeleteI admire your optimism, Editor. Is Quebec going to open the construction industry up to competition from companies based in Ontario or the Maritimes? Or is it going to be the usual suspects "competing" for contracts, same companies, but with different faces at the top? From what I've read here and elsewhere, Quebec comes across as the Greece of Canada. People and cultures just don't change that quickly. As for your hope that the judge "throws the book at them" remember that this Canada, where penalties for white collar crime are little more than an administrative cost.
ReplyDelete"This dark period of arrests is the beginning of the end of systemic corruption in Quebec, because honest Quebecers will tolerate nothing less." I dunno, they seemed to tolerate it for decades. Even in Toronto, we were hearing stories about corruption in the construction of facilities for the '76 Olympics and it's now almost 30 years later. Is it different this time? We'll see.
DHockeyGuy
DeleteSadly, I have to agree. Québec governments and unions have been in bed together for so many générations that I don't think these recent developments signal the death knell of QC corruption.
Until QC unions are neutered, nothing will change around here. The entire construction industry in QC is rotten to the core. As you allude to, until the QC government opens up the construction industry to companies from other provinces, we'll continue to get reamed by "the usual suspects" as you call them. I'm not overly optimistic.
I dare any municipality in Quebec to hire an out of province/country firm to do road work in Quebec. All the union cockroaches will come out of the woodwork if that ever happened. We are a bunch of chumps here in Quebec. We know we're being fleeced 30% more than we should be paying yet NOBODY has even suggested tendering contracts out of province even tough that would nip the problem in the bud. Who are they afraid of and why are we taxpayers so willing to overpay for shoddy quality?
DeleteThat will never happen. You know why because the unions are made up of thugs. If they ever tried that then you can be darn sure that these union workers would sabotage equipment, threaten and likely beat up these out of province workers - they would do everything in the book to make life hell even if it means breaking the law. They would probably block streets, shut the city down - they have no conscience. Nothing will change in this province until we get hundreds of thousands of ordinary taxpayers on the streets day after day demanding that the laws change. I dont see that happening..it never happened in Greece. People went on the street in Greece once all their pensions got cut and their jobs were cut but they never protested all the crap that was going on before. There are too many people who work for or believe in the all powerful unions. Hence really there is little hope that things will get better..things will only get worse..this Charbonneau commission is a crock..lots of bla=bla-bla and in the end little action.
DeleteComplicated: Agreed. This commission is a crock. It's catching the small potatoes, but the big ones, like endless proverbial fisherman's tales, will get away.
Delete@sauga
Deletewho are the "big ones", mate?
@sauga
Deletehey sauga! who do you think is bigger than montreal and laval mayors and ceo's from snc, dessau, etc? who should they have gotten and missed, up to now, in your humble opinion?
Student: Tony Accurso, or whatever his name is and Vito Rizzuto, the kingpin. Those two are the filthiest of the filthy.
DeleteI think you hit the nail on the head. The unions are way way too powerful..they control everything..governments are terrified of them..both the liberals and the pq. The unions are basically criminal organizations. I remember the first year when I moved to Montreal reading stories about fire trucks ending up in the river during a fireman strike. I thought to myself..is this really happening..union fireworkers are actually dumping fire trucks into the river to get what they want?? How about all the stories of Montreal city workers sleeping on the job..going shopping while supposed to be working and so on. Then with my own eyes I saw city workers cleaning quite residential streets once per week..every other city in Canada I have lived in cleaned streets twice per year!!! Or how about the many times I have seen streets tore up and paved then tore up a few months later and repaved and even a second time. Traffic lights that regularly didnt function. Going to my city hall and seeing all these incredibly bored looking workers shuffling their feet around. I also noticed my mail was sometimes not delivered on certain days of the week..especially fridays or mondays. Saw the postal worker driving from house to house in his own car and on some days the canada post truck. Two official post offices with 5 minute walk of my house..both frequently empty with a few bored looking workers. Funny because out west the vast majority of post offices were put into pharmacies 20 years ago but not in Montreal..because this is a special place that always deserves better treatment.
ReplyDeleteThats just the way things are done in Montreal..extort money from the public, from the res of Canada - lie, cheat, dishonesty - forgeddabout an honest days work, having a work ethic, being proud of your work, having a conscience - no here in Montreal its become an art form in how to rip off people. It seems Montreal is also a hub for all sorts of telemarketing fraud..who wudddathunkit. Sorry editor but its systemic and part of the culture here..you can have all the commissions you want but old ways die really hard.
When doing business in Quebec always count your fingers after the handshake. Just the way it is. Doesn't matter if its the government, unions or private enterprise. They have their feeling of entitlement which precludes honesty. Sad situation.....The Editor in this piece, is trying to exonerate the people of Quebec and in reality the blame is on them for allowing the blatant corruption that exists at all levels in Quebec. Shame really, I am sure there are some honest people in Quebec.
ReplyDeleteFROM ED
ReplyDeleteWesterner, you can keep yourv blatant accusations toyour self. I don't like being accused of allowing corruption. makes my blood boil. How dare you? If you had been reading thiis blog you would know how the corruption came into play.. You cruxify all of us as if we stood by and watched each fraud or theft.. The Editor is not trying to exonerate people they've nothing to be for given for. He's trying to show that it's important to get the bad guys and let the innocent go free. the heavy corruption started with Mayor Drapeau whose ability to spend was bigger than himself and the city coffers. he wrote the contractors a blank cheque and they smelled blood. he told them do whatever you have to. When Bourrassa (goodn man that he was) took the Olympic construction out of his hands they brought in a good old English company, Dominion Engineering. Lavalin had 100 cranes on the site but Dominion did the job with three. At a hundred dollars per hour . Ed.
ED,
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, If the Shoe fits, then wear it.
By mentioning Drapeau you are clearly admitting this fraud has been ongoing form many years.
I am sure there is corruption everywhere , but it is the exception. To be fair look at the Senate. Disgusting Pigs at the trough. Duffy, Wallin ,Harb .... etc.
In Quebec , however, corruption it would seem is the accepted norm.
Tremblay, now Applebaum........NEXT!!!?
Westerner: Interesting you should mention the fat cat senators. These are Harper's appointees. I don't know if you recall, but Harper was, prior to his foray into federal politics, head of the National Citizen's Coalition, a lobby group for smaller government.
DeleteHarper was a very strong advocate for the abolition of the senate, yet when he became PM, he appointed more senators than anyone before him, and not unlike PMs before him, his appointees were friends and political allies who brought him to the absolute power he's trying to become.
Duffy and Wallin, former news reporters, used to ridicule the senate for all its worth and now they're the biggest advantagetakers of them all.
Power corrupts...EVERYWHERE!
OK, here's the link for the National Citizen Coalition: http://nationalcitizens.ca/
DeleteThe whole Applebaum thing does not surprise me AND he never rubbed me the right way, especially after he insisted with clenched teeth and fists that Montreal is officially a French only town, he lost me completely....not that I was ever a supporter as I mentioned.
DeleteI remember having a conversation with a friend of mine, after Applebaum became mayor, I remember telling her that I thought we should just do away the the ENTIRE Tremblay team, since it was painfully clear the entire Lot was totally infected. As far as I was concerned corruption and collusion happened on THEIR watch and they should ALL go. She remarked that we shouldn't throw out the baby with the bath water and she believed Applebaum was clean and would make a great replacement for Tremblay....mmmmm....Think again Kathy! The 'apple' never falls too far away from the tree. LOL...(couldn't resist that one).
"Power corrupts...EVERYWHERE!"
DeleteI prefer...Power corrupts....EVERYONE !
After years of language lessons due to her impoverished English, here is the current status of Pauline Marois’ new and improved ability, explaining today’s events. Boy, has the PQ ever sunk from the days of great leaders like René Lévesque and Lucien Bouchard. Today’s PQ leader now needs to be accompanied a translator at her side at all times in order to be able to make herself understood:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Video+Marois+should+resign+Marois+says/8538150/story.html
Pauline Marois and her problem with English
DeletePauline Marois's leadership of the Parti Québécois is a first in more ways than one. She is, of course, the first woman to lead a major political party in Quebec. She is also the first PQ leader not to be perfectly comfortable speaking English.
Georges Boulanger, February 16, 2008
Pauline Marois's leadership of the Parti Québécois is a first in more ways than one. She is, of course, the first woman to lead a major political party in Quebec. She is also the first PQ leader not to be perfectly comfortable speaking English.
René Lévesque spoke English fluently, having grown up in the English-speaking town of New Carlisle and spending the Second World War in Europe with American troops. Although bilingual, neither Robert Bourassa nor Claude Ryan had his ease and fluency in English. Jacques Parizeau evidently enjoyed using the British English he picked up at the London School of Economics, while Bourassa, a Harvard man, spoke his English adequately, without any style or apparent pleasure. Jean Charest raised the Liberal standard considerably, but Lucien Bouchard and Bernard Landry were not impressed.
At the federal level, with the notable exception of Pierre Elliott Trudeau, the Liberal leaders speak even worse English than their provincial counterparts. Jean Chrétien carefully cultivated his non-threatening image with a heavily accented pea-soup English while Stéphane Dion has the bookish accent of someone who learned the language by reading, not talking. Their Bloc opponent Gilles Duceppe's English, while it would've been considered mediocre in Quebec City, was paradoxically more than good enough by the standards set by Quebec federal politicians. Brian Mulroney and Paul Martin spoke easily in French and English, but they are anglophones. The current situation, with Pauline Marois speaking considerably less English than the fluent Jean Charest, is the exception, not the norm.
Marois is under attack these days for suggesting that the Quebec education system should make sure that all children are functionally bilingual when they graduate from high school. She demanded that English be taught from the first grade on, and even that some form of immersion be created, by teaching geography and history in English, for example. As expected, the cowardly right of the independence movement opposed the plan violently. More frighteningly, some intellectual elites, such as author and playwright Victor-Lévy Beaulieu used the T-word. Treason. VLB, as he is known, certainly speaks English. He just published a 1,000-page essay on James Joyce, one of the most notoriously difficult writers in the English language. Yet the knowledge of English has never diminished Beaulieu's commitment to independence or his passion for the French language.
The knowledge of English has never had a negative correlation with support for Quebec's independence or support for the protection of French. Support for independence rises in the francophone community with education level and income [ED: Are you sure about that?], both of which usually suggest some knowledge of English. Nor does bilingualism diminish a students' ability to speak and write in their mother tongue. Many studies have demonstrated that the kids who go through the French-immersion program in the rest of Canada score better in English than those who go through the regular program!
The modern independence movement was born in Montreal's bilingual francophone intellectual community, inspired by hearing Martin Luther King and Gandhi speak about freedom, justice and liberty, in English. Eighty to 90 per cent of young people in Scandinavian countries speak English. Yet they are still Swedes and Finns, still speak Swedish and Finnish and still play hockey, not football. If the Quebec school system could properly teach English to Quebec's youth, the English language CEGEPs and universities would not look so attractive to young people who want to practise the language. By suggesting that the knowledge of English is dangerous for the people, that they are not ready or that it could threaten the integration of immigrants, Marois's elitist bilingual opponents like Beaulieu managed to demonstrate only that speaking English won't make you smarter either.
DeleteGeorges Boulanger is a writer and truck driver. He blogs at angryfrenchguy.com
"Marois is under attack these days for suggesting that the Quebec education system should make sure that all children are functionally bilingual when they graduate from high school. She demanded that English be taught from the first grade on, and even that some form of immersion be created, by teaching geography and history in English, for example."
DeleteShe did? That's the first I heard of it. I thought the government was moving in the opposite direction, getting rid of the intensive English year of the Liberals?
Don't know where that guy got his info but Marois has never, ever promoted English in any way shape or form in this province.
Deletehttp://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Video+Marois+should+resign+Marois+says/8538150/story.html
DeleteI watched the video above. The only one who should be embarassed is Pauline Marois. Truly dreadful that she wants to mingle in International politics and speaks English this poorly and this miserably. Work on your English please....c'est honteux.
http://ygreck.typepad.com/ygreck/2013/04/anglais-obligatoire.html
DeleteFROM ED
DeleteR.S. Why are we being fed this bullshit from a separatist truck driver? It was obviously a ploy to fool English people for the upcoming election. Ed
FROM ED
ReplyDeleteFine if it's Drapeau the senate i=or whatever, but it's not them you are accusing. You accused us the people. i am tired of people like you and Complicated blaming the innocent people for wrongdoing. We are just trying to live as we were when the corruption was going on. Ed
Remember this?
ReplyDelete1909 Royal Commission: Montreal “Saturated with Corruption”
MARCH 25, 2013 | BY ALANAH HEFFEZ
http://spacing.ca/montreal/2013/03/25/1909-montreal-saturated-with-corruption/
Montreal Corruption Retrospectives are all the rage these days, and for the spring 2013 edition of Spacing Magazine, which was released last Saturday, I put together a feature piece on corruption inquiries through the ages. Check Spacing Montreal each day this week for the latest “episode” in this century-long soap opera.
“Il semble que le déroulement d’une enquête soit un processus cyclique où l’on passe du scandale à l’indifférence.”
“It seems that inquiry proceedings are a cyclical process in which we pass from scandal to indifference”, writes Jean-Paul Brodeur in his book La délinquence de l’ordre, published in 1984 (which was the source of much of the info here).
The Royal Commission of 1909 may have been the first to invoke the monarchy, but it was not the first probe into corruption in Montreal, nor even the first of the century. Inquiries in 1864, 1877, 1894, 1902 and 1905 had been attempted, ignored, abandoned, aborted, and hushed up, respectively. So it is little surprise that by 1909 citizens were clamouring for a general and complete scrutiny of all seven departments of city hall (police, fire, roads, hygiene and statistics, finances, water, and lighting).
Judge Lawrence Cannon, who headed the inquiry, concluded that city hall was “saturated with corruption,” with no less than 25% of the city’s revenues making their way into the pockets of elected aldermen’s friends and family.
For instance, construction contracts were sub-divided to bypass calls for tender, then handed over to firms in the aldermen’s inner circles. Furthermore, dozens of liquor-license infractions had been ignored when business owners contributed to election coffers, and a position in the police, detective or fire department could be negotiated for about $25.
Cannon’s scathing report, which convicted 23 of the city’s 40 aldermen, was published in La Presse shortly before the 1910 municipal election. Anticipating the political consequences of his revelations, Cannon specified that the next elected city council would be responsible for implementing his recommendations.
The inquiry had far-reaching implications: the provincial government reduced the number of elected aldermen by half, a board of commissioners – which later became the executive committee – was created to oversee municipal services including the police force, and the police were endowed with a “morality squad.”
The citizens’ committee that had launched the inquiry ran their own candidates and won the 1910 election by a landslide. But with new faces in office, the inquiry was quickly forgotten: none of those convicted in the report faced civil or criminal prosecution.
Woo hoo! Montreal finally made it onto Gawker… a little behind Toronto, admittedly, with its crack-smoking mayor who still hasn’t been arrested, but then who’s counting… at least, now they’re jealous of us for having slipped in ahead to upstage them in the mayoral arrest sweepstakes!!
ReplyDeleteCheck out all the comments:
http://gawker.com/montreal-mayor-arrested-on-corruption-charges-513756895
Florida blogger warns about Canadians
ReplyDeleteJune 17, 2013
By John R. Kennedy, Global News
Canadians pose a “silent threat” to America, according to an editorial on the website of a Miami newspaper Monday. The tongue-in-cheek (we hope!) Miami New Times blog takes aim at a part of the U.S. Senate’s immigration bill that will permit Canadians to spend up to eight months a year in the U.S. — up from the current six months.
“These people, many of them do not even speak English as their first language. Do you realize this? They still pledge allegiance to the Queen. THE QUEEN,” Tim Elfrink writes. “Not to mention that the mayor of their biggest city allegedly smokes crack cocaine and the mayor of Quebec’s biggest town was just arrested this morning for corruption.” Elfrink warns of Quebecois bikers “flooding your favourite beachside tiki bar with their poutine and their Fin du Monde.”
An estimated half-million Canadians own property in Florida and Canadian tourists pump billions into the U.S. economy. But Elfrink wonders if “these are the people you want to give free reign to roam our beaches and corrupt our children with their ‘parliamentary democracy’?”
Judging by some of the comments on the New Times blog, not all readers understood that Elfrink is (we hope!) joking.
What has happened to us, Montreal? Calgary now has Canada's coolest mayor (eat your heart out, Régis Labeaume!):
ReplyDeletehttp://funnyshare.org/post/63507/the-awesome-mayor-of-calgary--alberta---
I used to live in Calgary. Calgary is like the anti-Montreal literally. Calgary is pro-business, hard-working, open to the world, progressive, modern and efficient, low taxes, new infrastructure, booming, innovative, generally honest, friendly, and on and on. Montreal is literally the opposite..sad but true.
DeleteI concur!
DeleteMeanwhile, a few years ago, morning radio host Terry DiMonte was lured away from CHOM by the big bucks offered by Q107 in Calgary, becoming one of the highest-paid radio personalities in Canada, and he ended up leaving his contract a year and a half early to come back to Montreal, his true home. He says that while he cheered for the Flames on-air, he always remained a die-hard Habs fan; one of the first things he did in Calgary was to sign up for RDS.
Delete"After working here for all these years, I was fed up with the crumbling infrastructure, high taxes and the constant pissing and moaning that always goes on here. Then I get on a plane and go: 'Thank God, that's behind me.' "But then the next thing you know is that you get to a place where nothing is really going on. The economy is booming and people are talking about oil and gas and everyone is excited when the Stampede comes to town. Put it this way: one of the highlights of my stay in Calgary was at the Safeway and hearing from an aisle away: 'Je pense pas, tabernac!' I went running over to talk to that person."
DiMonte abides by the theory that you can take the kid out of Montreal but not Montreal out of the kid. "There's a rhythm to the language and the city that you miss. When you're there all the time, you say: 'Oh Christ, here we go again.' As I was leaving Calgary, people were saying to me that I was going back to the land of $1.30 gas, high taxes, language and political issues. I responded: 'Yeah, but with all its warts, it's home.' "Montreal will always be home. It's really a small price to pay to be among your people. I consider myself a very lucky man to be back here. And to know there will never be a dull moment."
http://www2.canada.com/montrealgazette/columnists/story.html?id=b07149af-75d7-4921-b54d-3b651ada0110
Personally, although this was back in 2000, Calgary reminded me of Ottawa in terms of size, look and feel… not that there’s anything wrong with that! There were some nice restaurants but the main attraction was its proximity to Canmore and Banff.
DeleteWhat’s this “ridiculously expensive” bridge that the tweeter mentions? Surely, it can’t be as ridiculously expensive as the replacement for the Champlain Bridge (Canada’s busiest bridge) estimated at costing $3-5 billion. Another thing that separatists are only too happy to have the feds paying the bill for… while seeking to create fights with them wherever they can.
Well Terry Dimonte is from Montreal..everyone always has a certain attachment to their home no matter how awful things are there. There is no question that Montreal is a more exciting place than Calgary but comapring a city with 3.5 million people with one that only has 1 million is not fair. And also consider the history of Montreal compared to Calgary.
DeleteBut if you love the outdoors then Calgary wins hands down..with the Rockies one hour away..the Laurentians pale in comparison. Also way less pollution..overall much friendlier people..better attitude overall.
Hey, Premier Marois and PQ ministers: What’s wrong with this picture?
ReplyDeleteJune 14, 2013
[See this picture:]
http://blogs.montrealgazette.com/2013/06/14/hey-premier-marois-and-pq-ministers-whats-wrong-with-this-picture/
Had this photo been taken at any Formula One race other than the Grand Prix du Canada, the answer would be “nothing.” But because it was taken in Montreal, it’s “those ‘Fly Emirates’ signs.” They’re illegal in Quebec, because they’re in English only.
Under Quebec’s Charter of the French Language– Bill 101– signs must be in French, and if there’s also another language, French must be predominant. An exception is made in a regulation adopted under the language law for trademarks recognized under the federal Trade Marks Act, which don’t have to be in French. But “Fly Emirates” isn’t a trademark in Canada. A trademark application for it has been filed with the Canadian Intellectual Property Office, but a spokesperson for Industry Canada said it hadn’t been granted yet when the Montreal race was held on Sunday.
The illegal signs were plastered all around the Circuit Gilles-Villeneuve for the race, so it was hard to miss them.
Parti Québécois Premier Pauline Marois and two members of her cabinet, Finance Minister Nicolas Marceau and Tourism Minister Pascal Bérubé, attended the race, so they must have seen them.
From the premier’s website, here’s a photo of Marois at the race, with one of the signs: [see link]
And here’s another, with several more of the signs in the background: [see link]
So here’s another question:
Did Marois or any of her ministers do their civic duty and file complaints about these flagrant violations of the language law, witnessed by Quebecers at the track and watching on television, to the Office québécois de la langue française?
dmacpherson@montrealgazette.com
ANSWER: OF COURSE NOT! IT’S EASIER TO BULLY LITTLE RESTAURANT OWNERS THAN IT IS TO BULLY BILLIONAIRES WHO RAKE IN THE MOOLAH TO QUEBEC’S ECONOMY.
POOF! SO MUCH FOR QUEBEC’S SO-CALLED “VALUES” ONCE AGAIN…
Pure laine,
DeleteUnfortunately, in this case it is Don Macpherson that in the wrong. "Fly Emirates" is a trademarked slogan that is protected and therefore exempt from Bill 101. There is a precedent of this case about TW Steel advertisement in Quebec City.
This is the link he provides in his blog showing that they have filed a trademark application but that it hasn't been granted yet:
Deletehttp://www.cipo.ic.gc.ca/app/opic-cipo/trdmrks/srch/vwTrdmrk.do?lang=eng&status=OK&fileNumber=1561111&extension=0&startingDocumentIndexOnPage=1
So that's why it was illegal to use it at this year's Grand Prix. Of course, it's much easier to be picky and fine restaurants for on/off switches and pasta instead.
Equanimity,
DeleteInteresting. I stand corrected. And to think of which, there is nothing illegal with the usage of English in restaurant equipment and decorations, if one is to follow the letter of Bill 101. Those are OQLF interpretation that they try to pass as rules.
Oh, and for those who still don’t understand the phoniness behind the QSF’s “Turbangate”, nor the reasons why the PQ decided to get mixed up in it (especially those of a studious nature):
ReplyDeleteThe soccer turban controversy: It started with a lie
June 16, 2013
When the Fédération de soccer du Québec announced on Saturday that it was lifting its ban on players wearing the turban, it said it was because the sport’s international governing body, FIFA, had decided only the day before to allow the Sikh religious head covering.
That’s not true.
A Radio-Canada television report on Saturday evening showed documents proving that the Quebec soccer federation knew as early as last September that FIFA allowed the turban. That’s when the Canadian Soccer Association sent the FSQ and other provincial associations a letter informing them that the international governing body had decided to allow the turban. So FIFA’s statement of Friday simply reiterated a position it had already taken nine months earlier.
And in the Radio-Canada report, the Quebec federation’s director-general, Brigitte Frot, made a damning admission. She said the federation’s board of directors “heard of” FIFA’s position in the letter from the CSA, the sport’s governing body in Canada, in which it ordered the provincial associations to allow the turban. That letter was dated April 11–nearly two months before the Quebec federation’s board of directors voted on June 1 to defy the Canadian association’s order, arguing that FIFA did not expressly allow the turban.
That wasn’t true, and the FSQ knew it. That started the controversy that resulted in Quebec’s being embarrassed around the world.
In addition, in defying the CSA’s order, the Quebec federation violated its own bylaws, which acknowledge that the FSQ is “under the jurisdiction of the Canadian Soccer Association and subject to its rules unless it receives a specific exemption.”
That bylaw destroys Premier Pauline Marois’s claim that the Quebec federation is “autonomous.”
dmacpherson@montrealgazette.com
Sometimes it's best to just laugh at bigots:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/16/laugh-at-bigots-racist-tara-flynn
A report on “Ireland’s most racist B&B”! LOL! Irish humour… so much funnier than Ding et Dong…
Delete“Once the Polish builders had all gone home and it was just ourselves and the Nigerians left, we noticed that there were a lot of racists in Ireland who weren’t afraid to stand up and be counted… So we made the B&B as racist as possible, but in a warm, welcoming way. We try and turn people away before they get here, you know, if possible. We don’t want to disappoint anyone. So we ask them a few questions on the phone, like, “Do you take the sun well? Or, could you clap along to this Michael Jackson track? And if they have fantastic rhythm or they sound a bit “tanned”, we tell them that there’s a festival on, that we’re full.”
Required listening for the “I’m not racist, but…” crowd!
" I cannot in good conscious listen to the ROC gleefully gloat without defending the good people of Quebec who are by and large humiliated and furious at those that betrayed the public trust."
ReplyDelete"If you are one of those who believe that Quebecers are inherently more dishonest than Canadians, you are probably one that believes in other negative stereotypes.
Calling Quebecers a gang of thieves is no different than saying the same about Blacks, Jews or Italians, where not many would dare say so out loud."
Thank you.
À propos des accusations dont le maire Applebaum fait l'objet, l'ex-maire Gérald Tremblay a déclaré en conférence de presse qu'il n'avait été informé de rien.
ReplyDelete:)
I respect your pride in Quebec but, as a former Quebecer and now a proud citizen of ROC (where there is freedom from the daily drudge of the language debate and its attendant nonsense) I have to respectfully disagree. I was a consultant for decades, and witnessed firsthand an "I'll scratch your back and you scratch mine" attitude unique to Quebec. Nepotism of this type breeds corruption.
ReplyDeletePerhaps it's a product of society with an affinity for authoritarian strongarm leadership. In spite of the efforts to distance themselves from their past, let's not forget the influence of the Catholic Church on Quebecers' psyche. Despite persecution of the church in some quarters, many Catholic leaders supported Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany.In Quebec, this translated into resistance to the draft in WWII. This affinity for fascist leadership brought Maurice Duplessis, Camelien Houde, and, more recently, the right wing of the PQ (if they had their way). Corruption goes hand in hand with authoritarian leadership.
It is also sad that the arrest of Mr. Applebaum will further anti-Semitic bias and the perception that Jews come upon their money through inappropriate means. Another "pillar of the [Jewish] community" disgraced. Shame
There was resistance to the draft in ww1 too where there were no Nazis; pacifism on the part of Quebecers cannot be attributed to Nazi sympathies.
DeleteIs it pacifism or fear that let the Nazi's roll over France so quickly?
DeleteAre these the same pacifist Quebecers that support the FLQ and killing of Laporte?
Quebec is only pacifist when it suits the Quebec narrative.
Meanwhile you have people like Y.L on here with their "patrioles" with rifles avatar.
Y, all Quebecers are pacifists. Yup, absolutely.
Yannick,
Delete...pacifism on the part of Quebecers cannot be attributed to Nazi sympathies.
Pacifism or cowardice?
Thank God not all of Canada were "pacifists" or we would all be speaking German by now. Call it what you will but there are times when we have no choice but to stand up and be counted and the citizens of one province or state in a country cannot be allowed to sit back and watch while everyone else risks their lives and limbs because they "don't agree with it". If Quebec had been a separate country at the time of World War II, we in the ROC would have had no choice but to "protect" them with the lives of our families while they would have been able to sit back and watch the action not risking a damn thing. How crazy is that? Idiots - thank God there were many francophone men that volunteered because they knew it was the right thing to do. Quebec will never have the luxury of being totally "pacifist" if trouble starts for the rest of Canada and another world war (heaven forbid) happened. The physical location would not allow it even if bombs are pretty well controlled nowadays. They will never be "free" of Canada or the US in the way they want - ever.
DeleteQuebec doesn;t have a pacifism problem. It has a self involved problem.
DeleteThe reason PQ Quebecers didn;t help anybody else out is because they never ever do help anybody else out.
The PQ are pacifists as long as things are "other peoples problems".
It's not pacifism, it's lack of caring about other people and other countries problems.
Seppies could care less that people were being murdered in Europe in WWII. Not of interest to them. Unless it impacts PQ Quebec or more importantly "Quebec Culture" they don;t give a shit.
People in Europe being killed? Unless the Pauline M of the day could spin it into union support or other nonsense they don;t want to get involved.
@cebeuq
DeleteI hate to agree with you, but I agree with you.
Quebecers are very self-involved and self-indulgent... almost to a fault....if you can say that... LOL
They are also not particularly generous and this we know. Every year for the United Way (Centraide) campaign, our offices in Quebec are the ones that raise the least amount of money compared to the rest of the other offices throughout the ROC. When you show them a little generosity, the generally get very suspicious, like somehow, you're doing it for a reason and want something back.
I must say however, (from what I have observed from time to time)..that...sometimes they do learn by example...but it takes a damn long time. It isn't something that comes easily to them.
cebeuq,
Delete"... it's lack of caring about other people and other countries problems. Seppies could care less that people were being murdered in Europe in WWII."
What do you think of the USA who did not care much about people being murdered in Europe until Pearl Harbor? Then, all of a sudden, it mattered...
"Pacifism or cowardice?"
DeleteFor those interested in reading a little about this : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crise_de_la_conscription_%281917%29
To make a long story short, quebeckers did want to get involved into the war because it was not their war and it was not their army.
It was not their war just like it was not the war of most (south, central and north) american countries. The USA entered the war only in 1917 when their interest were at stake (and Brasil in 1917).
The majority of english canadians volonteers were recent United Kingdom immigrants. That was their war. United Kingdom was their homeland.
Nevertheless, french canadians fought in the war. And the cowards of La Chaudière regiment landed on Juno beach and have been, at the end of the longest day, the only regiment to have met all its objectives. That day, no other regiment went further inland than those cowards.
English Canada saw their duty in WWII and did their duty, with pride. Quebec looked for guidance to their brothers and sisters in France who were content to capitulate to the Nazis, lest their wine drinking or cheese tasting be disrupted. Anyone who visits France for extended periods of time knows this shame is still present today.
DeleteQuebec has always admired authoritarian leadership. The Catholic Church exercised such control over public interest for a few centuries. Many Quebec companies adopt authoritarian management styles. People liked Duplessis who, like the tinpot dictators in Latin America such as Juan Peron, took their inspiration from fascist societies.
Does no one think there are extreme rightist elements within the PQ that would be just as happy to burn down the Reichstag (whatever the equivalent would be in Quebec today) rather than having to deal with this troublesome concept called "democracy" that requires the unachievable 50%+1 vote for sovereignty? Certainly the youth that support these neo-fascists have shown their stripes in last year's absurd demands.
The careful reader will notice that D-Day (Juno beach) is a WWII event, no WWI.
DeleteWhat do you think of the USA who did not care much about people being murdered in Europe until Pearl Harbor? Then, all of a sudden, it mattered...
DeleteWhile it’s quite true that for the first two years of the war, the U.S. maintained formal neutrality and it did not become an official belligerent in WWII until Pearl Harbor, this view of history is far too simplistic. It is completely incorrect to think that “all of a sudden, it mattered” only after Pearl Harbor. As with French-Canadian pacifists, the Americans initially also felt it was not their war, this time on account of their experience as a result of WWI. However, Roosevelt declared the U.S. to be the Arsenal of Democracy a full year before Pearl Harbor, providing substantial money, munitions and food to the Allies through its Lend-Lease program. After the Fall of France, they instituted their first-ever peacetime draft (conscription) in order to grow their military to prepare for war.
The History Channel UK very briefly describes what actually happened like this:
“In September 1939, the ideological affinity between the USA and Britain was unquestionable, yet large swathes of the US public, media and politicians were deeply isolationist. With hindsight, many people resented America’s involvement in the First World War. The desire to ‘avoid foreign entanglements’ and focus on domestic issues was widespread.
When war broke out in Europe, US President Franklin Roosevelt recognised that the conflict threatened US security, and looked for ways to help the European democracies without direct involvement in the war. This necessity increased in June 1940, when the Fall of France left Britain as the only democracy standing between Nazi Germany and America. In 1939, the Fourth Neutrality Act authorised the US to trade arms with belligerents provided that the countries paid in cash and collected them. In March 1941, Roosevelt moved further towards making the US the ‘arsenal of democracy’ with the Lend-Lease Act, which permitted the lending, leasing, selling, or bartering of arms, ammunition and food to “any country whose defence the President deems vital to the defence of the US.”
The US was sucked further towards the conflict when its navy and air force began to ‘escort’ British convoys which transported Lend-Lease material across the Atlantic, protecting them from German submarines. Roosevelt’s announcement of a ‘shoot on sight’ policy in September 1941 following an attack on the USS Greer enraged isolationist senators; they alleged that Roosevelt was deliberately provoking skirmishes with the Germans. Meanwhile, Churchill repeatedly attempted to convince Roosevelt to enter the war. […]
I'll add to Cat to say that US destroyers had been escorting arms shipments to the UK and had been shooting at German subs more than a month before Pearl Harbor.
DeleteI'll also tell Mr. Editor of weekly revisionism that at the time of armistice, France had been completely overrun and no longer had any substansive units to resist with. Yes, it is true, they might have ran off to Africa and continued to wage war from the colonies, but they chose to put Petain in charge, an old general who had seen too much death.
It's not as simple as "they surrendered lolz", Free French units did they duty and distinguished themselves in more than one occasion.
Quebec looked for guidance to their brothers and sisters in France who were content to capitulate to the Nazis, lest their wine drinking or cheese tasting be disrupted.
DeleteI am so glad to know that someone who is so preposterously offensive and prejudiced as you are has left us long ago. I’ve never understood why the same condescension that people like you show toward France is somehow never applied to Italy, who were themselves ACTUALLY PART OF THE AXIS FORCES. Not to mention that back in the 30s and 40s, there were fascists and collaborationists in virtually all countries, including the USA and Canada. Norway famously had its Quislings, for instance, and Finland also had its Axis collaborators like Marshal Mannerheim, and yet somehow they are not remembered for this today. Only France is, and this despite Norway and Finland being located very far away while France itself shared a lengthy land border with Nazi Germany, which had also occupied Holland, Belgium, Denmark, Norway, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Estonia, Greece… It took the physically distant Allies (the Soviet Union, United Kingdom, USA, Canada, Australia, China and many others) four years to finally defeat the Axis, and yet for some bizarre reason, France is the only country that merits your very special, selective scorn.
You obviously need a refresher course in basic history. It’s shameful that you choose to ignore the heroic efforts of the French Resistance, the trials and executions of French Nazi collaborators and traitors and how its collaborationist women were treated.
Meanwhile, you probably cheer how, even in this modern age, it took the Americans “only” a decade to kill Osama bin Laden after the shock of 9/11, even though they share no land border with Al-Qaeda but were attacked from the other side of the world, and are still trying to deal with internal “collaborators” to this day.
"...France is the only country that merits your very special, selective scorn."
DeleteIt is also interesting to see how we are blamed for what France did or did not do, and to see at the same how we are told that we are not french, that we don't even speak real french, etc.
Actually I concede on The Cat's points. You win by a knockout. I had not thought enough about the role of pacifist sympathies, all other issues put aside. That's the point of vigorous discussion, which may entail controversy (something Canadians scrupulously avoid). I still maintain my views, however, about Quebecers' affinity for strong-arm leadership and the effect this has had on business practices and political culture.
DeleteWow! We are having fun today “QUEBEC BASHING”
ReplyDelete@ complicated June 17,5:24 PM“ I am from western Canada and there really is a culture here of dishonesty.”
June 17,9:24 PM“that corruption and dishonesty is almost ingrained in Montreal culture“
I have no intension to pull your chain but it sounds as if different people wrote these articles.
If you think Quebec is in trouble. Read what gifts Gordon Campbell left the people of B.C. and then Stevei appointed him high commissioner to the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland . By the way Gorden was a liberal.
http://powellriverpersuader.blogspot.ca/2011/07/premier-gordon-butterfly-campbells.html
white african - I think you misunderstood my first post. I am living in Montreal but am originally from western Canada. I was referring to Montreal not western caanda. Hence my posts are entirely consistent knowing this.
DeleteThe level of corruption and dishonesty in my opinion is on a much higher and more widespread level in Montreal than any other part of Canada. Yes there is corruption everywhere but its an art form here in Montreal. I dont believe the argument that the journalists are better uncovering it here than elsewhere. In the end there is just so much more corruption that its so much easier in the end to find.
I find it extremely hard to believe that anything will change. Wherever there's money, there's greed, and that will always be true. I think we'll be discussing the exact same issues in another 20 or 30 years. What we're seeing now is all just a big show, for the benefit of all the little sheep out there who think all will be solved.
ReplyDeleteI think people need to stop being so naive.. once everyone realizes that governments are not there to serve the people, we will all be much better off.
I'm amazed by the fact that everyone seems to be surprised by this corruption. Kind of like the Americans being shocked by their governments spying programs. Come on, what fantasy world were you living in?
There are no honest politicians. They are all in it to satisfy their own needs and ambitions, and to help out their friends while preparing a comfortable future for themselves. An honest person simply wouldn't make it very far in today's political reality, and honest people don't usually aim for a career in politics. These are ex-lawyers, and ex-students who have never worked a day in their life (right Bureau-Blouin?)
People also need to realize that someone's got to pay for the choices we make as a society. Sure, it's nice that we support Quebec jobs first, and only allow local companies to bid on public projects. There is a cost to that, and it gets even worse when people (quickly) realize that the system can easily be abused.
It's also very nice that we pay construction workers (most of which don't have a highschool diploma) more than many university graduates, but again their 80k$+ salaries come from somewhere. How can you expect any type of honesty when you're paying people that much money to sit around a shovel? I remind you that "Rambo" is paid by our money to intimidate other non-union workers.
The only way to deal with some of the corruption we're facing is to abolish the unions and to stop limiting who can bid on public contracts.
Until then, expect more of the same.
Bigger government, great paying jobs for everyone (no matter what), supporting only Quebec workers.. We got exactly what we wanted as a society. But as typical Québécois, it's never our fault. Ça doit être les maudits anglais encore!
Excellent post Quebecer of Tree Stump. I will say that we are all to blame in the end for not getting out on the streets in mass protests over many of these policies. If we want things to change then the only way is mass demonstrations just like what the students did. If we had a million ordinary taxpayers on the streets for months then the government would have to change their ways. Also if we stopped voting for the same two parties over and over and over then perhaps things might change. I am not saying the CAQ is guaranteed to fix everything but I think after all the crap we have endured from the PQ and the Libs that its well worth the risk. We also should all demand a real democractic system..we dont have real democracy in this country nor do they in the USA. We have a silly fist past the post system that regularly elects parties that dont even win the popular vote..that elect polticians by default because the vote gets split between two like-minded parties. We should all demand a proportional type system or a ranking system which would result in much more representative elections. It would boost the vote as well..no wonder so many people dont even want to vote anymore. Here in Montreal all the anglos vote overwhelmingly Liberal in election after election..so many people dont even bother voting because their vote is meaningless. We should abolish the useless senate or at least make it an elected senate.
DeleteIn a way we have the government we deserve. Most Canadians are too lazy to even educate themselves on what each political party stands for..they vote for superficial or traditional reasons that are often erroneous..they vote based on whether a candidate was well know before..they vote based on the physical appearance of a candidate. Canadians..especially Quebecers..are also so good at whining to the government all the time to fix this and fix that and give them this and that. Canadians expect the government to do it all for them..well at some point you end up like Greece or Quebec where the debt levels become too great and poof everything collapses all at once. Why..because people get too greedy and lazy. So yes governments are often doing a horrible job running things but the people allow it and even encourage it by their actions or inactions.
Tree Stump.
DeleteThe Quebec construction union is 180 000 voting PQ members. They go on strike while the PQ is in power since they can do some union theater. The PQ can pretend to "hold out" and in the end give the everythign they want.
Meanwhile the Quebec construction unions are one of the major elements destroying the province.
As you say, paying somebody $80K so 4 of them can stand around and watch one of them work. Add that to the price we over pay to the engineering firms that arranged for the work. the politician need their 3% kickbacks.
Meanwhile they construction workers work "7 hours" (more like 2 hours) per day. Nobody works on construction in the evening. All the work in the province could be done twice as fast and we could hire a lot more people.
The union hates this idea of course. It would add immigrant non pure-laine workers into construction. they will work too hard and are not guaranteed to vote for the PQ.
Add in the poor quality of work on our roads for example and what you have is an entire system at every level designed to suit the union/mafia/politicians and not the population.
The entire construction field from top to bottom is a major problem.
Like every other major issue in this province. Nobody will ever fix the problems.
The politicians will just give the union a raise and we'll be back to more of the same nonsense.
Anyone want to see how the rest of the world changes a bridge in 48 hours?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dTZIZmLlWs
We are light years away from replacing bridges in 48 hours. In Quebec it takes 10 years to do the same thing.
Quebec construction market could be fixed in 5 minutes if companies from the other provinces were allowed to work here.
The PQ/Libs etc will never allow that. It would be cutting off their source of political funding.
The pretend it's all abotu skills and language, but it's really about protecting Quebecs dysfunctional criminally run construction system.
+10 cebeuq - every bit of it true and no end to this shit in sight. The unions literally could get away with murder and no one stops them. As I said, no wonder the kids don't stay in school - great money and their dad, brother or uncle gets them a great paying job to leave school at 16. What a province.
DeleteYannick - Yes so true. As I said most Canadians judge politicians based on superficial reasons. Dion was geeky and had an annoying french accent..then the goofy video of him came out and that was it. But as I said most Canadians dont care about the issues..they want a leader who looks good, sounds good and tells people what people want to hear..a good bullshitter in other words.
DeleteMichael Ignatieff came across as a pompous arrogant intellectual. Personally I didnt like him either but it was more for some of his statements. I remmeber him going on and on about getting the money out the door to stimulate the economy in 2008. He didn't want anybody verifying where the money went or whether or not it was being used in the best way possible..he just wanted the money out the door. Sorry but this is public money and you better be spending it as prodently as possible..big x in my book. Plus he did seem on the arrogant side..an intellectual who doesnt really understand the REAL world. As I have said before we need some small business people to run the country. They can multitask..they know how the real world works and how to get things done.
Justin Trudeau as you say has done zip in his life to deserve being considered to run this country. All he has is the famous last name and a charming smile and voice..but again that is what most Canadians look for..sad to say but oh so true.
And on the news at 6:00 some construction workers went to work to finish up a condo project and the next thing they knew there were like 15 union guys showing up and threatening them and when that didn't work, they called in 15 more union guys and again told the guys to quit working. They just wanted to finish the reno on time but the union workers wouldn't let them saying "we just want all our construction workers to abide by the strike rules". Yes, they're thugs and no one is going to stop them from running this province further into the ground.
DeleteI liked Dion because he was honest - and before anyone reminds me I know Bill 101 is a great Canadian law - he was still an honest man.
DeleteCutie I agree with you, I liked Dion as well.
Delete"The only way to deal with some of the corruption we're facing is to abolish the unions and to stop limiting who can bid on public contracts.
DeleteUntil then, expect more of the same."
The truth is that the unions run the province. That's the ligitimate mafia. On the other hand....the citizens of this province are the ones that are most to blame, as they continue to be passive and indifferent. They allow this reality to perpetuate without ever putting up a fight. Nothing will ever change, sorry Editor but I think you got it wrong...when the wind has blown over and the focus is on other things...the vicious circle with start once again...WHY?...Cause the citizens have yet to put their foot down. I am not optimistic that they ever will.
“He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.” Martin Luther King Jr.
I liked Dion's ideas, but I just had to shake my head at the presentation. I voted for him, but I knew he would never touch the masses.
DeleteThe man was better as a minister than a prime minister, and I am glad he decided to stay in politics after his defeat.
"the good people of Quebec who are by and large humiliated and furious at those that betrayed the public trust."
ReplyDeleteI have not seen evidence of this. Since the start of Charbonneau, I have rarely goteen more than a shoulder shrug and a "whaddaya gonna do?" from my friends and acquaintances here. There seems to be this feeling amoung lifelong Quebecer's that this is just how things are done, nothing can be done about it and it will never change (at least not permanently).
BdgBill - You know what I think thats also a big part of why there is so much more corruption in Montreal than elsewhere. People are much more accepting of it here than elsewhere. As you say they shrug their shoulder and mutter some useless phrase. Either they have grown up accustomed to it because its been going on for decades or perhaps many Montrealers are somehow in on this corruption in their own daily lives and dont see it as a big deal. I know in the rest of Canada that people would be absolutely outraged by whats been going on here wheras here its accepted as the way things are in Montreal. Hnece if the public doesnt care then the big shots keep on going with the corruption because nobody seems to care. I am willing to bet that this commission comes out with a whole bunch of new recommendations but that within a few years people will find new ways to engage in corruption. Its a societal problem..a commission cant change that.
DeleteHello cher Rédacteur.
ReplyDeleteI was shocked to see the headline on my neighbor's Globe & Mail in the hallway today.
-- "but I cannot in good conscious listen to the ROC gleefully gloat without defending the good people of Quebec who are by and large humiliated and furious at those that betrayed the public trust"
People are the same wherever you go; there is good and bad in everyone. Anyone who believes the idea that "Quebeckers are more corrupt" is buying the separatist propaganda that "Quebeckers are somehow different", which I don't happen to personally buy.
I believe the Editor is right in predicting a near-future corruption-freer Quebec/Montreal. It's an exciting time for Quebec!; there is no reason for any regular citizen to feel any humiliation. I send my congratulations from Ontario, which has corruption too, like everywhere else.
Off topic but stupid nonetheless - went to GT today and they have separate fireworks boxes for SJBS Day celebrations with the same logo as our license plates and a separate box which reads Happy Canada Day. Not sure which is the more expensive because they held different numbers and sizes of fireworks - Guess when you light up the separatist box you yell the slogan out loud or something. Crazy people will fall for the separatist box and probably pay more due to faulty workmanship and they won't work - lol
DeleteGT?
DeleteShe's probably referring to the Giant Tiger chain of discount stores. Not many of them in Germany I imagine, LOL.
DeleteGiant Tiger
DeleteWe had several GT in metro Calgary:)
DeleteLook what happens when you click on the "Français" link on GT's website:
Deletehttp://www.gianttiger.com/
Poof! No more maple leaves or "Proudly Canadian" in their logo! Hypocrite much? We wouldn't want any francophones to know that the money they spend there goes to funding their big bad anglo colonial oppressors or anything like that. (Although, to be fair, the maple leaves do make a re-appearance in a more discreet page like: http://www.gianttiger.com/fr/information)
It's amazing isn't it? Anyway, I'm surprised but they are selling Canadian flags and Canadian fireworks - guess they will be reported to the IF goons to put a stop to that quick.
DeleteMontreal's next mayor: Melanie Joly.
ReplyDeleteThis prediction is a no brainer. Basic marketing. Montrealers will vote in this hottie. Very distracting from all the corruption thingy... I can see the echoes from news reports!
http://www.montrealgazette.com/opinion/Opinion+time+Montrealers+take+back+city/8537086/story.html
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/M%C3%A9lanie+Joly/8537420/story.html
At 34 she's not old enough to have her hand at the till or be experienced in the institutional graft. She's come from private business. The only downside is she's yet another lawyer.
DeleteLook at the average age of people before the Charbonneau commission. Must be 65.
That alone should make her mayor.
Montreal city hall already has too much "senior experience" that "knows who to call" and "how to get things done". We need many more people with no clue how to navigate the city system. Things will get done. They won;t realize they are stepping on all kinds of little empires of corruption within the system.
We'll end up with far fewer overpasses to nowhere or roads repaved on the timetable of the construction union and engineering companies.
Things might happen with logic or common sense. It's very scary stuff.
Seriously, vote for Louis Harel or M Joly?
Harel won;t get above 100 votes.
Well honestly she would be my pick right now..she seems smart and she is not affiliated with any party which I really like. She is young..has education outside of Quebec from Oxford. The only downside is that she is a lawyer. But when you compare her to Denis Coderre who I never liked..a lifelong Liberal parasite who I dont trust at all. Or Louise Harel..please retire soon madame.. or Richard Bergeron..they are all so old school and party affiliated. I really think we need a fresh new face so all the power to her.
DeletePretty much the way it is except for item 7......Plekanac, Cole, Gionta, Diaz, Ryder, Price , Gallagher..names don't sound French to me!!! Any of these guys actually speak French? I think rather than "dirty French guys" you would be more appropriate with "loser guys".
ReplyDeleteBut, you missed #11. The most corrupt province in Canada, if your on the take. ;)
Happy that you enjoy your life in Quebec :)
Le N.-B officiellement bilingue?
ReplyDeleteAmbulance Nouveau-Brunswick essuie les critiques du commissaire aux langues officielles de la province
http://www.radio-canada.ca/regions/atlantique/2013/06/17/014-ambulance-plaintes-commissaire-nouveau-brunswick.shtml
Can this woman possibly cause us any more trouble and cost us any more taxpayer's money? Lay Off Miss Piggy - we're sick of you picking fights with the federal government over nothing! Put that $500,000 into the health care system which is in bad need!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.montrealgazette.com/news/montreal/creates+committee+look+federal+overlap+Quebec/8544001/story.html
what's wrong with saving money?!? sometimes you are difficult to decipher, mate.
Delete@cutie003
Delete"...and we all know it."
who's we? the gatineau naggin' dames club?
"NO MORE POWER TO QUEBEC"
you did not understand your article. the move is not to ask for more power but to enact powers quebec already has. push back ottawa from where it's not supposed to be, if you want.
"WE SHOULD ALL STOP PAYING TAXES TO THESE CROOKS AND INCOMPETENTS AND LET THE PROVINCE DIE A SLOW DEATH."
yes. this will help... thank you for your input cutie003. but why the capital letters? you shouting, mate? take it easy.
Corruption should not be tolerated anywhere; it is a serious betrayal of trust of the people who look to these people for representation and help. These people are the voices of many, and they shame their offices (in the US, or Canada or anywhere) when they steal, lie and cheat and put themselves above those whom they serve. It is a disgrace and they don't even have any shame. As if they don't get paid enough, they steal more and more and more.
ReplyDelete