Thursday, June 27, 2013

17 year-Old Girl Shows up Entire Anglo Community as Cowards

“It's becoming too restrictive.”
If there is anything that extremists and extremist movements cannot tolerate, it is the cruel spotlight of publicity and up to now, the English and Ethnic community has been cowered and afraid to expose the cruel and excessive force displayed by French language militants and the OQLF.

It is said that a picture is worth a thousand words, and yet with all the thousands of inspections by OQLF thugs who employ intimidation and threats to subdue their targets, nobody has had the guts to film or record the encounter and publicly expose the truth about language intimidation.

Shame on us all.

It fell to a young part-time grocery employee, Meaghan Moran, to record a conversation with her boss, who demanded that she cease speaking English on her breaks with other English employees, or anywhere else while on the premises.
The bilingual young lady had no problem speaking with customers and other francophone employees in French, but drew the line at being forced to speak French to English customers and co-workers .

She then turned over the recording to the media who ran with the ball.
If you speak French, listen to the rough ride  the bosses give the young lady over French. The later denial by the store owner tht the girl was never ordered not to speak English is nonsenses. By the way, the two bosses outright lie about the law;


"All she wanted was a part-time job, but what a South Shore teenager got was a hard lesson about language in Quebec.
Meaghan Moran, 17, got a job working at an IGA on Sir-Wilfrid-Laurier Blvd. in Saint-Lambert. She was told that she didn't have the right to speak English at the store.
A fluently bilingual Anglophone, she told CTV Montreal she picked up on some language tension one day.
 “One of the guys I was working with is English and I knew him and he said, ‘No, talk to me in French because we're not allowed speaking English on the floor,” she said, adding that she quickly heard what her friend and ex-employee Alex Caldwell knew: employees don't feel comfortable speaking English anywhere in the store.
“I was warned by a friend in the lunchroom to watch what I say and keep my English down, because the management didn't like it and she got a warning,” said Caldwell.
That didn’t sit well with Moran.

“It's just about the principle. You should be able to speak whatever you like. I understand if they want to impose (some rules) -- I'm not going to talk to clients in English, I would talk to them in French -- but if I want to talk to my friend on my break in English, I should be allowed,” she said. “It's becoming too restrictive.”
Watch a video report and read the story at CTV

The OQLF, sensing another public relations disaster,  immediately responded that the assertion that English could be banned was false.

And so like David facing off against Goliath, it took a 17 year old girl to show us all up as the gutless and spineless toads that we are.
Yes I said it.

The fact that we are collectively too afraid to record incidents between the OQLF and ourselves, in fear of retribution, speaks to the lack of resolve that our community displays in defense of our rights.

I hear it often enough from businesses and bosses.
"Ooh, we're afraid of the legal costs, afraid of a boycott by francophone customers and  afraid of the fines."

So we suck it up and take it up the rear end.....Again, sorry to be graphic, but Meaghan dished out  a monumental lesson in civics.

Without sacrifice and commitment, evil cannot be overcome.
Our English community has for too long rolled over and played dead because it was just too damn inconvenient to fight.

If we are to protect English  language rights in Quebec we are going to have to do so ourselves.
Truth be told, the OQLF and language militants are paper tigers, we've seen them cave whenever real pressure has been applied.

I am hopeful that a young, brave girl can inspire us to resist, otherwise, let's turn out the lights on English as a respected and essential part of Quebec life.


********************  UPDATE ********************

After initially denying that Meghan was ordered not to speak English and that the matter was closed, the owner of the IGA has been forced to rethink her position.

Meghan has contacted  the Quebec Human Rights Commission with a view to laying a complaint.

The bad publicity and the damning recording has got Soebys, the owner of the franchise involved, ordering the franchisee to get into full damage control mode and end this thing before further damage is done.

"Our relationships with our franchisees are on a one-to-one basis, and we will deal with Madame Ménard in the appropriate fashion, within the context of our contractual relationship with her." Marc Poulin, CEO  Link
Sounds Madame Menard is in for a first class ass-kicking!

And so the manager on the tape has been suspended and it won't be long before a humbling public apology is offered. Link

Another ex-employee has come out and confirmed that she was fired for speaking English and so it is time to offer a settlement in order to put this thing to bed, as the bad publicity in having this case heard at the Human Rights Tribunal will be traumatic for the company, sure to lose anyways.

At any rate the decision is out of the hands of the franchisee, as the reputation of the entire IGA is at stake.
I predict this thing will be settled quietly by the weekend, with a cash payment and a non-disclosure agreement.

I think $20,000 is appropriate.

But you never know, Meaghan might hold out for a better offer or milk the publicity for all it's worth! 


********************  UPDATE #2  *******************
The story has finally crossed over to the French press, which can no longer ignore the growing firestorm.
'About 50 Anglophones demonstrated outside an IGA in Saint-Lambert on the South Shore, to demand respect for their language on Friday night. This effort follows a linguistic conflict that shook the business community on  Sir Wilfrid Laurier Boulevard these last few days." Link
 

Listen to this:

347 comments:

  1. FROM ED
    Editor, Are you actually comparing what she had to lose with what a company owner would face if he did the same. I think itnwas bravbe of her knowing she could lose her job, but that's all. We're not all in the same boat. Ed

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    Replies
    1. FROM ED
      One more thing it is not always legal to record someone and publish it. It depends who they're talking to and what the subject is. Ed

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    2. We have our mini-Nelson Mandela!

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    3. John you're either senile or completely retarded...

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    4. Anonymous forgets that as long as ONE PARTY knows the conversation is being recorded it is legal. Undercover officers do it all the time.

      Delete
  2. At the Independent Grocers Alliance (IGA), vee speak French only, mein Herr!

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=552178721491289

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Oh no, wait... IGA = I Get Annoyed!

      https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=150383921821309

      Delete
    2. Comment dit-on prenez l'autoroute 401 vers votre pays en globish?

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    3. Silly SR the 401 goes to Ontario which is in the same country as Quebec. If you're going to home school your kids in geography at least buy a map.

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    4. "Ontario which is in the same country as Quebec."

      Tellement évident.

      "buy a map"

      Pas besoin avec Google.

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    5. Quebec is just as much my home as it is yours. I was born here, raised here. My family has been here for many generations, and you have no right to tell me what language to speak, or where to live anymore than I do to you. Telling me to speak only french because I live in Quebec would be the the same as us telling you to speak only English because you live in North America, and if you don't like it go back to France. You might see a difference, but there isn't one.
      This is my home as much as it is yours. The difference is that I don't care if you speak another language. Speak French to your hearts content! Moi, je parle quelque langue je choisir, et tu n'as aucun de choix par ca.

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    6. "same as us telling you to speak only English because you live in North America"

      C'est exactement ce qui se passe dans la réalité.Quelle langue croyez-vous que j'utilise lorque je vais à Boston?

      "Moi, je parle quelque langue je choisir, et tu n'as aucun de choix par ca."

      Sorry,i don't understand this sentence :(

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    7. S.R You dont seem to understand very much do you! You also probably dont see how all this french pushing and language law shit will in the end only keep all you francophones down. Teach your children and your childrens children discrimination in the name of preservation and the only place in the world that they ever have a chance in succeeding in is Quebec! What a sad mentality.

      "C'est exactement ce qui se passe dans la réalité.Quelle langue croyez-vous que j'utilise lorque je vais à Boston?"

      do you really expect an entire continent to bend over backwards to learn a language that they would only ever use to accommodate one tiny little province of small minded racists??? of course you do. Thats the Quebecoise mentality. All I have to say is if quebec wants to force french down my throat, the quebecoise better start speaking french themselves. Not Joual

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    8. Stop replying to the trouble makers, anonymous. They don't even believe half the rubbish they write, they are just trying to get you to react. They don't reply to me because I don't reply to them. If everyone on this blog did the same, they would have been gone years ago. That's right, they've been coming here for years.

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    9. EDM is right. THis is a blog for anglos and I NEVER respond to the racist francophone trolls. Nor should you. They won't listen to reason and logic anyway.

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    10. "Silly SR the 401 goes to Ontario which is in the same country as Quebec. If you're going to home school your kids in geography at least buy a map."

      I second that.

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    11. @EDM…

      I'm not sure about the trolls leaving if no one responds to their gibberish. Resident trolls have become like that crushed beer can that Cher kicks around in that infamous (last but very memorable) scene in Moonstruck, where with almost perfect aim and precision she kicks it repeatedly, for almost an entire block!

      Since trolls insist ...on hanging around, we reserve the right ...to kick them around ..just like old crushed useless beer cans on the side of the road!!

      Call it.. Karma-come-early.. LOL !!! ....Ya hear that Ed? LOL (wink)

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    12. J'adore les anglos car ils savent tout...De vrais petits génies.

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  3. LordDorchester

    I like how they trot out Bill 101 cheerleader Julius Grey when a language story flares up. The problem Mr Grey is that after a generation of Bill 101 and other discriminatory language laws ignorant fools like this store's manager really believe that Quebec only has one official and LEGAL language. It does not. This "runaway" language discrimination is the product of years of indifference from English speaking Quebecers and the Federal Government which has been turning a blind eye to the language bullshit going on here since the 70's. IGA Louise Menard has some serious explaining to do. This is 1950's Alabama shit and cannot be tolerated at all. It must be stamped out. Discrimination against Anglos or Francos is worng. This 17 year old kid should be commended for what she did.

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  4. Call IGA headquarters and complain at 1-800-465-2139.

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    Replies
    1. Checked out the Gazette this morning and there is nothing in there about this incident. What is the newspaper for other than to keep the anglophone community aware and up to date on what is happening in quebec. Very disappointed in the Gazette - they have a bunch of other inconsequential shit published but nothing on this incident. Am calling the 1800 number at 9:00 this morning to complain - hope all of you out there will do the same. Start speaking up on these incidents - it's about time we took action!

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    2. The email addresses for Gazette newsroom executives can be found at: http://www.montrealgazette.com/about-montreal-gazette/contactus.html

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    3. I completely agree. The Gazette has disappointed me so much that I cancelled my subscription with them last month. Tired of their inept reporting especially when it comes to the English language.

      You'd think that a English paper would have language complaints & problems front and center in order to protect their client base. Be the first ones to report and investigate discrimination against the English language which is stopping English people from moving here, blocking access to English schools and killing the English community - who are their bread and butter !!!

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    4. Several people I know have cancelled subscriptions to the Gazette for that very same reason. The Cornwall Free News is a much more anglophone-friendly and responsible paper.

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    5. Yeah, there is absolutely nothing in 101 that can be used to justify the managerial directive.

      But 101 has a long shadow - this isn't the first time we've heard about something like this happening.

      The descriptors' issue comes to mind.

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    6. Gazette has lost it's purpose. They are the origination of "lamb lobby" term.

      They are more worried about being labeled "anglo rights paper" then reporting on what goes on.

      Part of the reason that the anglo community is in such a state is that the Gazette has been virtually the only anglo newspaper in montreal and it gave up supporting the anglophone community dozens of years ago.

      On the plus side they have done some good research on things like corruption but they arn;t interested in rocking the boat on language.

      Fear of retaliation from the PQ govt? (Remember the licensed press idea Quebec was floating?) Perhaps as I suspect its just lamb lobby hq. It's easier to take "wirefeed" articles then potentially annoy readers. Even if they are racist, quebecers don;t like to be reminded of it.

      Anyone noticed the massive "The Globe and Mail" newspaper bulletin board on the 20 in montreal in French?

      Either it's following a language law (how messed up that you can;t advertise anglo culture in english) or they actually are confused enough to think Quebecers will trade in "la press" for the globe and mail (not going to happen).

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  5. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke
    (And women, too)
    Bravo to this young girl. It takes courage to stand your ground when you're up against Goliath. My kids went through this in school all the time when we were living in Quebec. I was able to tolerate it to a certain extent while they were in the classroom, but on the playground and on the school bus and everywhere else that was considered free time...no way. We are living in Kingston now, and my daughter is in French immersion in her high school. The kids speak freely in whatever language they choose no matter whether they are in or out of the classroom. This is the way it should be in a free society. I've discovered that there are a lot of perfectly bilingual children here that have embraced both languages. This is wonderful.

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  6. The Language police came after my company and myself, I fought them and won I applaud this 17 year old for have the XXXX to stand for her rights.

    And she's not even old enough to vote!!!!!

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  7. Congratulations to Meaghan Moran for having the spine to call out her bigoted boss at IGA.
    Editor, your blog makes a necessary and unpleasant point. For too many years, Quebec's anglophone community has been its own worst enemy -- acquiescing to the whims of a government-sponsored language gestapo instead of standing up to them, and daring these creeps to just try and stop us from living and working in English.
    One can understand how a unilingual francophone becomes an English-, immigrant-, Canada-hating separatist (ignorance combined with indoctrination), but I have never understood why so many anglos have been so passive about these assaults on their basic rights as Canadians. That passivity was distressingly obvious during the Feb. 17 rally against Bill 14. Other than language, what was the major theme of the day? The chilly weather, and how more people would have turned out if it hadn't been so cold.
    So people would rather stay warm at home than put on a couple of layers of clothing and stand outside for 90 minutes in defence of their language rights? That disappointed me and others deeply; some of us at the rally had driven in more than 100 kilometres to attend, yet many couldn't walk a few blocks to attend.
    That's just one example. Institutions like the Gazette refuse to consider themselves part of the English-speaking community; that's a delusion, as French-language militants consider the Gazette to be part of the "anglo elite."
    Let's hope Ms. Moran's gumption will rub off on the rest of the non-francophone community.



    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @Ex-MTLer1642

      At the very least it's giving this province negative exposure once again and once again they are publically embarrassed and humiliated. Mission accomplished Ms. Moran !

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  8. While I have sympathy for the young woman, I myself have been told many times to speak in English to my coworkers when I used to work a menial job in Bilingual Moncton.

    They never gave me a soapbox on which to cry my woes to the, though.

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    Replies
    1. If you were told to speak English, then your employer or boss was just as stupid and arrogant as the owner of this IGA store. Just because some idiot does something wrong to you doesn't make what happened ok.

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    2. "Just because some idiot does something wrong to you doesn't make what happened ok. "

      I think that's his angle here - to downplay with the "it happens in other places too" argument. It's a pretty standard tactic, I find.

      As for the soap box, he should call the SSJB or Le Devoir. He'd get his 5 minutes toute de suite, especially now as the franco press will be looking for a parallel counter story. (the ambulance story was replicated within 3 days by Radio Canada about a patient in NB).

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    3. You can adress me directly, adski. Come on.

      I would say that it is more of an "Quebec anglophone press incensed at what is day-to-day occurance for francophones in the ROC, even occasionally in a majority environment".

      Stories like this always bring forward to me that Quebec Anglophones really don't know how how fortunate they are as a minority, because it is the only time that Anglophones ever are a minority.

      In the ROC, the francophone would shrug and do as his boss tells him to. In Quebec: MAN THE BARRICADES!

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    4. Can you hear the people singing? Singing the songs of angry men. They are the songs, of those who will never speak French again!

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    5. I can only wish that the French press in the ROC was as diligent at reporting issues like the English press of Quebec.

      In a word, I don't disagree that the boss shouldn't tell the young woman what language to speak in. What I am, is jealous. Jealous that she just has to step forward and be showered with support, while in the ROC we would be told "stop whining and get back to work."

      It is perhaps not to my credit, but there it is.

      You can practice singing along if you want. Do you hear the people sing?

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    6. To what "English Press" are you referring to Yannick? As far as I know only CTV News Montreal covered the story - nothing in the Gazette or The Suburban as far as I can see. The rest is way out there on the social networks - Yea! It's time all this BS was stopped and these people sued - we're out to stop bullying in the internet but it's OK to bully people in their work space? It all has to stop immediately! Too far gone, these nuts.

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    7. (sigh) typical Quebec nationalist, stick to the same company lines. Oh yeah well we have it worse everywhere else in Canada and the anglos are the best treated minority!

      Sorry to break it to you the minorities in Quebec are the only ones in Canada told which language to speak,what languages to display in their businesses and which school to send their kids to. This does not exist anywhere else in Canada, so you really need to stop deluding yourself, minorities in Quebec are the worst treated in Canada and that's why they leave in droves.

      People in the rest of Canada may not speak French and therefore offering services in French maybe be difficult, which is regrettable, but here in Quebec English was available but service was banned or not allowed. Do you see the difference? One is simply ignorance of more than one language, the other is a vindictive assault on any language or culture other than what some believe to be the only French Canadian culture. It's sad to see how Quebec can be progressive in some areas (gay marriage) but so draconian that it approaches North Korea and China in it's attempt at social engineering.

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    8. Comment va l'immersion française de votre petit fils...In ontario?

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    9. I am neither a Quebecer nor a nationalist. I am a ROC Francophone.

      And instead of opening your eyes, you are retelling me the same tired tripe about why the English in Quebec are so mistreated, but the same thing happening to a Francophone in the ROC is normal and expected.

      Get stuffed, thatguy.

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    10. In my McJob, half of us were Francophones. We were still told to speak to each other in English by the one on-duty manager, because she wanted to make sure that "we weren't making fun of her".

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    11. Apparently Dr. Yannick never heard the expression "two wrongs do not make one right".

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    12. ""because she wanted to make sure that "we weren't making fun of her""........

      You said it!!!

      Wasn't because she was an anglo extremist trying to enforce language laws on the employees!!

      Not a valid argument.

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    13. Gee, one spurious "reason" instead of another. You're right, there's a world of difference.

      Get a clue and try putting yourself in someone else's shoes once in a while.

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    14. Troy - did I say it was right? Try reading more carefully.

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    15. Nor did I say it was right for her (your boss) to force someone to speak one language or another because she's justan insecure person rather than an anglo extremist. That's the world of difference. You dont see anglo robo-cops entering places of business to enforce language laws....or anglophone parents being told they cant send their child to french immersion!


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    16. DHockeyGuy

      The 2 official languages for Canada is a noble dream but exceedingly difficult to sustain in the ROC without significant pockets of francophones. Let's be realistic Yannick. You can't just learn a language in a classroom. You need to have it in your everyday life on a regular basis or you eventually lose whatever small amount you did learn.

      There is pretty much zero motivation for ROC anglos to learn French OTHER than a patriotic gesture or a way to impress unilingual anglo girls. There's nothing malicious in that. It's just reality.

      If I go the Lac St-Jean, I don't expect the depanneur clerk to speak English any more than I would expect a Saskatchewan Walmart worker to speak French. The reality is that (outside of government services) it's should not be expected that regular ROC Canadians will be able to serve someone in French anymore than rural Quebecers will be able to serve someone in English.

      The difference for QC anglos is that we're ALL concentrated in Montréal so we have a critical mass and have developed our own community, institutions and services.

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    17. The girl denouncing her boss is a hero but when Yannick does the same, he is a Franco whiner...

      Obviously two wrongs don't make one right, but where is this "equality" you guys are all asking for?

      Also anonymous (or is it DHockeyGuy?), how can you tell Yannick that his arguments are invalid when you seem completely ignorant of the distribution of Francophones throughout Canada.

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    18. DHockeyGuy

      @Guillaume.

      I'm aware of the ROC franco distribution but my point would be that most QC anglos are not depending on QC francos to speak English or learn English to serve us here. Whenever I go to a business, I address the staff in French. If I see they're English I'll switch to our mutual mother tongue.

      The language of business is one thing and both the girl and Yannick would be obligated to speak the language requested by management during work hours. Outside of that management has no right to dictate their chosen language, so I see both situations being the same.

      My disagreement would be with Yannock's allusion to a franco in the ROC not being able to be served in French at a business. In my opinion (again), a francophone shouldn't realistically EXPECT to be served in French in Saskatoon, or Red Deer, or Kamloops. There may well be someone who might be able to speak a little French, but, unless there is a minimum local franco community, chances are slim.

      How are rural francos who are born, raised, and work in an environment that is 99.5% franco going to learn English? The fact is that most of them won't unless they go to a place with lots of anglos, or a lot of anglos move to their community. The same would apply to the ROC. Without a francophone presence in the community, most of the anglos won't have anything more than their rusty or long forgotten high school French. 95% of the French I know I learned from interacting and working with francophones which has been great. Most of the ROC anglos don't have that opportunity (especially outside of the major cities) so I don't know why anyone would expect them to be able to easily give service in French.

      It's neither right nor wrong, just the way it is.

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    19. the problem with Yannick and his ilk is that the informed (and the expert whiners and blackmailers) know that with comparatively little effort their demands will be met. (Michel Thibodeau ring a bell? Or the numerous instances of drunk driving/speeding and a few weeks ago, wife beating, all committed by racist francophones, who got charges dropped because they were not addressed in French?)
      Enjoying that French only hospital in Ottawa, Yannick? How about that French only clinic that doesn't serve francophones and almost cost a woman her health?
      A simple "where numbers warrant" to have minimal services in the minority language is a solution we have proposed for years. The racist fracnophones will never go for it for that would allow the dreaded language of English to permeate areas of Kaybec (Canada's Most Racist Province) while spending far less to provide service to the francophones outside who for the most part speak English.
      THen again, there is no French equivalent for the terms "fairness" and "equality" anyway.

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    20. The equality here is in recognition that her and his experience were both unpleasant and unacceptable. The inequality comes into the picture in his and her interpenetration of the experience. Yannick's interpretation is definitely dismissive and apologetic, and possibly even hypocritical (would he not be inclined to condemn any such instance when francophones are on the receiving side, but able to rationalize it if anglophones are getting it?). Her interpretation is not dismissive of other such experiences, nor hypocritical, unless she would defend these things if they were happening in reverse, which she might or might not, we don't know.

      Yannick is less of a whiner, more of an an apologist, which is bad, unlike the IGA girl who is just a whiner, which is not so bad, because she should whine about this as should Yannick about his unpleasant experience in this matter in NB.

      What I don't support is not Yannick's whining, but his dismissal of this story because a version of it happened to him. In fact it makes me suspicious of his claim that it happened to him, because if it did, he would be more sympathetic to the girl. Yet, maybe not, because after all he might think that the French language does deserve asymmetric treatment, which would in line with PC in this country and the view of some major players on the political scene, as with Mulcair's NDP for example (which is unfortunate for me, a left libertarian, to be so alienated from the major left-wing political force in this country because of its fixation on identity politics and PC).

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    21. Adski, if you read my actual comments more carefully you will see that I did denounce what happened to her, and expressed sympathy. Simply put I am jealous, and a bit bitter.

      The reason I am bitter is because you are calling me an apologist, when you should really be looking at DHockeyGuy.

      DHockeyGuy: Your answer is the same kind that I get whenever I share these concerns. I talk about Moncton, NB, where we have 33% of Francophones and Anglophones still can't be bothered, and you reply to me talking about fucking Kamloops and Saskatoon. I might as well talk to you about Trois-Rivières or Rivière-du-Loup.

      In Moncton - the most bilingual city in Canada after Montreal, I grew up thinking it was normal that there was no bilingual bus services, that to find French services you had to drive to an area of town that was 80%+ Francophone. The lesson I learned, was that "French" meant "Bilingual", and "Bilingual" meant "English".

      In Bathurst, a city where the French/English population is 70% of Francophones vs 30% of Anglophones, less than half of Anglophones can speak French whereas 75% of Francophones can speak English - what language do you think they have to work in? Even in a city with a heavy Francophone majority, most Anglophones don't bother to learn French.

      So don't come to me and start talking to me about fucking Kamloops.

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    22. I will finish - the English in Bathurst, of course, refuse to learn French, then complain about how they have a harder time finding a job because they don't know it, so that employment requirements have to be relaxed. What suffers? The services to the 70% of the population.

      Tell me again - who's forcing who's language down who's throat?

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    23. "Enjoying that French only hospital in Ottawa, Yannick? How about that French only clinic that doesn't serve francophones and almost cost a woman her health?"

      Oh jesus - there are two places in Ontario where an anglophone is outside their comfort zone.

      Call the journalists! The world REVOLVES around Anglophones, they have to be able to step inside every single clinic in Ontario and receive 5 star service. The Francophones? Well, they know English anyway.

      Ask me a stupid question, I'll answer with another - how many Hospitals are English only in Ottawa?

      What's that? "It doesn't count - Anglophones are the 'normal' people, plus French people know English anyway".

      Yeah.

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    24. By the way, I don't know about the Cornwall clinic (which is able to choose its clients and prioritize the Francophones in the region, given that Francophones have few choices and Anglophones can walk in virtually anywhere), but I guarantee that the Monfort hospital offers Bilingual services.

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    25. DHockeyGuy

      @ Yannick

      Take it easy there guy! :) Here's the thing. Each of us can only be responsible for ourselves and, hopefully, our children. I learned French because I wanted to be able to open my horizons and remain in QC (Montréal). I think it's a great language and I always speak to francos in French regardless of whether they speak English or not. It seems like the right thing to do.

      If there are morons in NB or BC, what am I going to do about it? I live here and embrace French throughout every day. Why punish QC anglos because of some Anglo douchebags in Bathurst?

      Ultimately, you can't force people to learn a second language if they simply don't want to. What do you propose? Legislation forcing Bathurst résidents to learn French?

      If 70% of Bathurst is French what do they care if the anglo 30% won't learn French. They have a thriving community on their own. As I mentioned before, as a Montréal anglo, I don't expect franco Quebecois to learn English to serve me. I'll just speak French and it doesn't bother me one bit if they remain unilingual. Their loss. Having said this however, QC needs to stop trying to rub out the English language in QC through legislation.

      ROC francos need to promote their mother tongue within their communities and speak the language of the majority wherever they are if they want a good life. QC anglos do exactly that today. The difference is, the ROC francos don't have provincial governments trying to legislate their language out of existence.




      Delete
    26. "The world REVOLVES around Anglophones, they have to be able to step inside every single clinic in Ontario and receive 5 star service. The Francophones? Well, they know English anyway."

      This asymmetry in favor of English is caused primarily by the economic, political, cultural, and military hegemony of the US. Does Quebec fight this hegemony in trying to restore a semblance of language equality? No. Just the opposite, Quebec leaders, even the separatist ones, pander to Wall Street and Washington, and Quebeckers have only good things to say about Americans.

      Instead, they fight pro-English asymmetry by creating local anti-English asymmetries in their own backyard where it's safe, as well as in the rest of Canada as much as they can. Except that it does nothing to the global hegemony of English (hence Quebeckers still have to learn English), but only ticks off English speaking Canadians who are not the purveyors of the pro-English advantage.

      If you want linguistic equality, go after Americans. Or continue to grovel and pander to them, but accept English as the language you must learn without requiring reciprocity from people who have little to do with this issue.

      Delete
    27. "Call the journalists! The world REVOLVES around Anglophones, they have to be able to step inside every single clinic in Ontario and receive 5 star service. The Francophones? Well, they know English anyway."

      How old are you?

      Delete
    28. "what language do you think they have to work in? Even in a city with a heavy Francophone majority, most Anglophones don't bother to learn French."

      "then complain about how they have a harder time finding a job because they don't know it, so that employment requirements have to be relaxed."


      So if I understand correctly, the problem is that non-francised Anglos slip into service jobs, and this puts pressure on the francophones to pick up some English in order to use the services. Also, since Anglos are recalcitrant to French, that again puts pressure on Francos to learn English in order to interact with the Anglos on job sites or in everyday life.

      I think such stories are weaved in order to shift the attention from the real source of the pro-English asymmetry and put it to the wrong people.

      The asymmetry is created by the American dominance in economy and culture, which puts pressure on francophones to learn English to secure jobs in increasingly global organizations (the MAIN reason why francos in Canada learn English), as well as socio-cultural pressure to learn English in order to fit in the world. Both are caused by Americans, but since Americans cannot be picked on, stories are concocted to put the focus on Anglo Canadians, Anglo Quebeckers, and immigrants.

      As if services would be such a decisive trigger for learning a second language, as if a half-fluent Anglo couldn't provide a service, as if Francos learn English because they just go: "ufff, the Anglo won't learn French so I better put the second language responsibility on me so I can interact with him on the work site"...i.e. interact with the very guy who is arrogantly snubbing the French language.

      I don't buy it. I just don't.

      Delete
    29. "The asymmetry is created by the American dominance in economy and culture, which puts pressure on francophones to learn English to secure jobs in increasingly global organizations"

      You might be wrong if the trend had begun yesterday, or even a decade ago.

      The truth is that relatively speaking, things have never been better for Francophones - there are more bilingual anglophones than ever before, both in absolute as well as in relative terms, and there are more bilingual/French services than there ever have been due to the federal OLA and the provincial equivalent. This in spite of globalization or interaction with americans.

      For the greatest part of its history, New-Brunswick would have had felt almost zero influence from the Americans. That line of inquiry is entirely new, and therefore spurious.

      "Better than ever before" and "good enough not to complain about" are two entirely different different things, though.

      And whether or not you buy it, it is there. Perhaps not where you live, or in Western Canada, but certainly where *I* grew up. I don't know of *anyone* who has learned English because of Americans - perhaps that is a compelling reason in Quebec. In Moncton, try "shopping at Walmart".

      Delete
    30. "For the greatest part of its history, New-Brunswick would have had felt almost zero influence from the Americans."

      After the initial Loyalist influx of course. New Brunswick is a province that has almost never seen any immigration or foreign investments. Interacting with Americans just isn't part of the local psyche.

      Delete
    31. I should probably try to make it clearer- I have never, ever ever ever, ever ever, met a NB francophone who learned English because he wanted to be able to interact with Anglophones outside the province.

      The absolute main reason for Acadians to learn English is to interact with local Anglophones, who overwhelmingly don't know English.

      It is to secure jobs with these local Anglophones.

      It is to receive service in stores.

      It is to be able to interact with the health workers.

      Simply put, the English don't have to learn French because the French learn English, and vice-versa.

      The reason why the English did not use to learn french before the OLA have nothing to do with current globalizing trends, and everything to do with a colonial mentality of the Anglophones that used to live there back then.

      Delete
    32. "And instead of opening your eyes, you are retelling me the same tired tripe about why the English in Quebec are so mistreated, but the same thing happening to a Francophone in the ROC is normal and expected."

      ARE YOU FOR REAL??? WE ARE FREAKIN' ASSAULTED.

      I have mentioned this before, but okay, I guess it’s worth mentioning again. I was having a private conversation with a member of my family one time, in a mall, and some old bag decided she was going to interfere, poke her nose in our private space, while we were talking with one another, and tell us that ...here we speak French. WHERE THE HELL DOES THAT EVER HAPPEN THE WORLD OVER? A mother and daughter are having a private conversation and suddenly their space is invaded by some shithead seppie who is going to preach and tell them what language to speak. You can just imagine what kind of response she got, she clearly had no clue who she was screwin' with...but let’s just say…she left in a huge hurry and didn’t look back.

      THAT …is it happens here in Quebec ALL THE TIME...invasion and imposition of people’s private space, for language fanaticism. 'tired tripe'? Anglos are the worst treated and abused in this province and that’s a FACT.

      But what is further reprehensible is that it’s become quite fashionable now...to be so overt with this type of behavior, and with RACISM. Quebec has elevated this to a new art form….so much to be proud of, don’t we all agree?

      The more I read your nonsense...I can't help but just think...WOW! (and not in a good way)

      Delete
    33. I thought you had decided to avoid reading me altogether Annectote - I think that was working out better for you.

      I'm going to have a different opinion than you. Clearly you've already made up your mind that you are the most mistreated minority and that whatever happens elsewhere is not important. If that is the case, then there is nothing to be gained here.

      Delete
    34. "The reason why the English did not use to learn french before the OLA have nothing to do with current globalizing trends"

      How many RoC Anglos learned French because of the OLA? 10?

      I wasn't speculating about why Anglos remain unilingual. It's their choice and if they want it that way, it's their right. I don't know if globalizing trends have to do with them remaining unilingual. In their case, it might be an interplay of old colonial mentality and new globalization.

      I was speculating on why Francos become bilingual. Because English is the lingua franca? Because they need it for good jobs? Or because they want to interact with the very anglos who snub their language?

      Just like in my country, it probably has much more to do with the job market than with things like the will "to interact with local Anglophones, who overwhelmingly don't know English." And on the job market, it's very often not to "secure jobs with these local Anglophones" (whose businesses are squeezed out by larger corporations) but to secure jobs with organizations run by non-local Americans.

      If I'm a franco, living in a place where my language has a critical mass as in a NB town where there are more francos than anglos, and I'm offended and exasperated by the anglos who don't speak my language, would I then learn their language just to interact with them? Am I a masochist? Or do I need this second language for other reasons? Are there any other reasons? There are. How do I know? Because they apply all over the world, including in my country.

      Did I learn English to be able to interact with QC Anglos? No. Did you learn it to interact with the Anglos in NB? No. Why did we learn it? Jobs, cultural influence, lingua franca...all because of Americans.

      Delete
    35. "Did you learn it to interact with the Anglos in NB?"

      Yes, actually! You have a set idea and even the earnest truth won't convince you otherwise.

      "would I then learn their language just to interact with them?"

      If you wanted a good job - yes! What don't you get?

      "How many RoC Anglos learned French because of the OLA?"

      The OLA has led to a 5% increase in the bilingual rate amongst anglophones. Since there are about 15 millions of those, that's about 750 000 people who became bilingual in various responses to policies adopted by the OLA.
      Bilingualism rate in Canada

      Delete
    36. I think your perspective is that of someone who's been farther than 50 miles from where he was born, Adski. That's a perspective entirely alien to ROC Francophones who mainly come from rural areas.

      Please understand that others' might be different. To someone who will never go beyond their city, the reason to learn English is to get hired at Walmart.

      Delete
    37. "I'm going to have a different opinion than you."

      How original!!

      I'm reproached for speaking a language other than French, while having a private conversation..in a shopping mall here in Quebec and this incites no reaction from you, you're content to have a different opinion than me. However, if it were the other way around and this would have happened to a Francophone anywhere in the ROC, judging by your past record on this bloy, you would scream bloody murder....right? Does "double standard" ring a bell? You have zero credibility

      PS...don't flatter yourself, I was reading adski responding to you...I haven't read or responded to you in the longest time ..and will continue to do so...no worries.

      Delete
    38. Yannick,

      This is my experience living in Toronto. More and more companies are providing French courses for employees to deal with their Quebec customers or counterparts. There are at least two angles about this situation:

      1. Toronto companies are more open-minded as they let employees to learn other official languages and able to deal with wider audience.

      2. It is getting worse for Quebec and Montreal economy as now functions in French can be done directly from Toronto instead of being branched to Montreal.

      Either way, the main motivation is business, not OLA compliance.

      Delete
    39. 2 things that give me a very hard time getting that

      1. Francos are proud of their language. Why would they want to interact with people that snub their language, especially if it involves a grueling process of learning another language? It doesn't make sense unless there is another incentive to learning it, like asymmetry in the job market in favor of English which is caused by the fact that the US dominates the world's economy.

      2. I'm a long way from home, but I know people who stayed. In a uni-language, uni-ethnic, and uni-cultural town, with no anglos in sight, these people put their kids in ESL courses from an early age. This is caused by globalization. This is the same everywhere, in hundreds of small towns across the world. But you're telling me that in NB it's somehow different, that over there people live as if the cultural, military, and economic behemoth that sits just below us did not exist, that the pressure of the English language in NB is all locally-generated, with no external influence. This is just hard to believe.

      Delete
    40. Yet it is true. I have cousins who don't know a lot of English. Why would they? They went to school in French, work in French, went to university in French, had French dates, read in French saw movies in French. To them, English is a course in high school of no particular importance, only to be used when going to "the city". These people live in an area of the province that is 99.5% Francophone.

      Myself, I was not able to speak intelligibly in English until I was 13-14. I read my first English novel when I was around that age - before that, I watched movies and shows in French, and read translated novels. When you grow up watching dubs, you don't really realize that the original version might be better. The real pull I had to learn English was in how limited I was in interacting in my own city, going to the store and renting/buying things. It had very little to do with anything outside my own city.

      What you don't seem to understand is that, yes, there is assymetry in the job market - but that assymetry has been there for centuries! You cannot explain a 100 years+ trend with the globalization that started a decade or two ago, you just can't. Your villagers in Romania sending their children to ESL classes wouldn't have done it 100 years ago, right? But between 100 years ago and now, English has actually lost pull in New-Brunswick, because of the activism during the 70-90's where we finally obtained a number of services. That is when the pull of English should have been strongest, if you had been correct.

      As to why Francophones interact with those who snub them - well, in order to not starve I guess. I mean it's not like the Anglos will switch to French if they can't speak English, so they have no choice.

      Delete
    41. Toronto- you are dealing with adult learners. Most of the bilingual people in Canada would not have learned as adults unless they were federal workers. They would have learned in immersion schools.

      Immersion schools were encouraged by the federal government with the idea of forming a bilingual workforce for the federal service. We can argue about the desirability and the success of that goal, but not its intent.

      Therefore, I do not discount your experience, but I suggest that you are not seeing the typical learner.

      Delete
    42. Yannick,

      Clearly, you are missing my point of view.

      Delete
    43. Perhaps Troy. Would you kindly make it more explicit so that a dunce like me can understand?

      I took from it that you thought the increase in bilingual people in Canada was due to market considerations - should I rather have focused on the differences in attitude between Montreal and Toronto?

      Delete
    44. Your point of view is inconvenient Troy !! LOL (wink)

      Delete
    45. Yannick,

      No dunce can be a PhD.

      But if you insist, look at the two angles I wrote. I believe those are the points I am trying to raise.

      Delete
    46. If I understand you correctly, you say that Quebecers are being serviced from outside Quebec to save money (and to Quebec's detriment), and that Toronto is more forward-minded than Montreal by embracing different languages rather than suppressing them.

      I did not comment because I agreed with what those facts indicate.

      I just don't see the relation to the increase in bilingualism in the ROC since the inception of the OLA. Do you really think that some offices' training on the side accounts for it?

      Delete
    47. By the way, I disagree. Many dunces can be a Ph.D., myself included. Education and intelligence are not synonymous. I don't hide behind a title and I dislike those who do. I only mentioned the Ph.D. more than a year ago because it was topical at the time.

      Delete
  9. I don't think a comparison between air traffic controllers being pressured to use the international language of air traffic control at all times in the control tower, and two cegep kids shooting the s**t on their lunch break at an IGA job being pressured to use the "official" in this province, is a valid comparison.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think that two people should be able to choose which language to communicate in no matter what the setting.

      If a doctor and a nurse want to break in and speak tagalog to each other, it should be nobody's business but their own.

      Delete
    2. A young girl at some trivial summer job at IGA gets told to speak French in the lunchroom: "They never gave me a soapbox on which to cry my woes to the, though."

      Air traffic controllers are told to speak English out of fear that safety-related information might be passed around: "I think that two people should be able to choose which language to communicate in no matter what the setting."

      ----

      I agree with this fully: "I think that two people should be able to choose which language to communicate in no matter what the setting.". I agree that these air traffic people should shoot the s**t in French if they want to: in the lunch room, in the hallways, at their desks anytime they're off line. I'm just not sure what the safety bit was, they didn't explain. Was it that they were talking in French while on the line? Or was safety invoked only an excuse to make them speak French? If it's the former, then the request was reasonable. If it's the latter, then it was just bullying cloaked in pious argumentation to soften up the demand, not unlike the IGA manager feigning concern for the unity and cohesion of the work-group (not to create "ghettos"), or QC language militants in general decking up their bullying in the language of concern for their culture, language, and values, and concern for your own good ("integration") and for the good of the society ("cohesion").

      Delete
    3. The big issue during the French Air Controller strikes, Adski, was that on occasion French pilots and copilots talking to French air traffic controllers in Montreal wanted to talk in French, but the National/Canadian organization said that was "unsafe".

      Now it might be unsafe if the workers were unable to work in English, or were given the right to choose French no matter who was on the other line. Not so. It was a question of whether or not two Francophones should be able to radio each other in French or not.

      Why it would be safer to force a bunch of people to communicate in a second language is beyond me. It was spurious, it was anglo-centrism, it was wrong, and it was beaten.

      Delete
    4. If it was not air traffic control, I might put it down to immoral morality (forcing English in the name of some value, in this case "safety").

      Since it is air traffic control, I'm reluctant to make this call. 10 years ago I was considering applying for an air traffic control job at the Warsaw Chopin Airport. One of the main requirements was the knowledge of English, but in employee testimonials it said that English is the language of work, as in: you start thinking in English the minute you enter the control tower.

      Pilots from all over the world land planes in Englsih, air traffic control all over the world is in English. Franco nationalists in Canada should not take their fight to control towers and cockpits. Even they should have some restraint.

      If to activist judges we add activist pilots and activist air traffic controllers, then this whole thing with the French language has really gotten out of hand in this country.

      Delete
    5. Well adski, People have been allowed to land their planes in French in Canada for the past 40 years, and we've yet to have a plane crash because of it.

      English pilots land in English, French pilots land in French. Simple, convenient, safe. It is the opposite of activism - the activist position would be to try and stop people from doing what comes naturally in the support of some higher ideal - in this case, the idea that everything has to happen in English in the control towers.

      Quite simply: you are unfortunately wrong.

      Delete
    6. Yannick,

      It is ICAO rules that ATC must be available in English or the language of the ground control. However, English must be available upon request. Therefore, the standing of English and French languages in the ATC world is not equal. English is a must-have, French is a nice-to have.

      In practice, English is the international language of aviation. That is why you hear the pilots say, "Cabin crew, take-off / landing position." in English, even when you are flying Air France landing at CDG. In fact, Montreal Trudeau is the only major international airport that requires its ATCs to be fully bilingual. Even CDG has no such requirement.

      Delete
    7. FROM ED
      Yannick , what if the English traffic controller's French is not as good as he thinks and causes an accident. The French pilots have to speak English at every other airport in the world. Why not here? It's ridiculous that Air France pilots speak English at De Gaulle and French in Quebec. People ask why don't the English in Quebec fight back. What good does it do when even the Laws and the courts give in.
      I knew a Russian interpreter who helped orient Russian immigrants. He had a large sign in his offiice saying;
      f FRENCH IS THE LANGUAGE OF QUEBEC. ENGLISH IS THE LANGUAGE TO THE WORLD
      As far as why the English did not rise up in protest, we were busy trying to live our lives and not paying attention to what they were doing to live theirs. Back then there was only one breadwinner and the mother actually took care of her kids. There was no hot lunch in schools, they came home to eat what their mother was there to make for them. Ed

      Delete
    8. Vous confondez English et Globish.

      Delete
    9. " ... in the crash of a China Northern jet on Nov. 13, 1993, on approach to Urumqi, in China's far west. The plane, an MD-82, had a ground-proximity warning system, which can sense when an approach is too steep and give an aural warning of ''Pull up! Pull up!''

      The plane descended too steeply, but the crew did not notice because of fog. The cockpit voice recorder showed that 10 seconds before impact, the ground-proximity warning system gave its alarm -- in English. Just before impact, one crew member said to the other, in Chinese, ''what does 'pull up' mean?'' "

      Source : http://www.nytimes.com/1996/12/09/us/language-gap-plays-role-in-hundreds-of-air-deaths.html

      (I first heard of this accident during a lecture from Claude Piron, linguist and former UN translator who got interested in communication problems in aviation...)

      Perhaps instructions to the pilot should have been given in chinese...

      If both the pilot and the controler are NATIVE french speaker, they should talk to each other in french to reduce the possibility of misunderstanding.

      Delete
    10. "If both the pilot and the controler are NATIVE french speaker, they should talk to each other in french to reduce the possibility of misunderstanding."

      That's my point right here Ed. The strike was over the fact that native French speakers were forced to talk to each other in English, against their choice. That doesn't seem very safe to me.

      Maybe it is ridiculous that the French land in English in Charles-de-Gaulle. Personally, I don't see why everything has to be in English everywhere, just because. That English is a requirement and other languages be dependant on circumstances seems perfectly reasonable to me.

      Again, the original issue back in the 70's was that two native Francophones weren't allowed to speak to each other in French. There's just no defending that, any more than there is defending what happened to the lady of today's story.

      Delete
    11. M. Patrice,

      If both the pilot and the controler are NATIVE french speaker, they should talk to each other in french to reduce the possibility of misunderstanding.

      For once, I agree with you completely. Therefore, there is actually no need for non-francophones to be 100% fluent in French in YUL, is it? After all, they are not native French speakers.

      And regarding your example, perhaps the pilots should have been trained better and should have understood the functionality of their aircraft better.

      Delete
    12. "In practice, English is the international language of aviation. That is why you hear the pilots say, "Cabin crew, take-off / landing position.""

      You forgot..."cross-check" lol

      Delete
    13. Troy,

      "Therefore, there is actually no need for non-francophones to be 100% fluent in French in YUL, is it?"

      This issue of air travel has always been about NATIVE french speakers who had to talk english to each other, it has never been about having non native french speakers to speak french.

      "And regarding your example, perhaps the pilots should have been trained better and should have understood the functionality of their aircraft better."

      In this case, most probably. But a quick Google search shows that misunderstanding in aviation due to language ambiguity seems to be not so uncommon.

      Delete
    14. M. Patrice,

      This issue of air travel has always been about NATIVE french speakers who had to talk english to each other, it has never been about having non native french speakers to speak french.

      Sorry, either you misunderstand me or I misunderstand you. My issue is for the ATCs at YUL that need to be 100% fluent in French regardless if they are native or not. So you agree with me, then. Anglophones ATCs at YUL need not to be 100% fluent in French as they are NOT native speakers?

      Delete
    15. (I assume that ATC means "air traffic controler".)

      Foreign pilots (incoming international flights...) should not be expected to speak french. Pilots cannot speak the national language of every country that they travel to. So ACT should be able to speak english.

      But there are many private owners of little airplanes who will fly inside Québec most of the time. For many of them, flying is not a job but a hobby. Some (many) of them will not master english perfectly, so the ATC should speak french.

      If the public pays for ATC, I would like us (the public) to pay for french (and english) speaking ATCs so everyone can fly an airplane not just the ones who speak english.

      (And if they fly outside of Québec will you ask? Well, they will have to speak english in this other country (a country whose ATCs are not paid by us, so it is not our business...) Some will choose not to fly where they have to speak english just like some will choose to avoid flying in cloudy weather, or for long distances or at night, each according to his abilities.)

      Delete
    16. M. Patrice,

      There is a big flaw in your argument.

      Some (many) of them will not master english perfectly

      Anyone who has a PPL at least, must be able to communicate in English well enough to be able to understand and be understood by the control towers.

      And why do you bring general aviation in the discussion about YUL? Most of general aviation in Montreal are conducted from YHU, not YUL. Besides, YUL ATC controls flight in and out YUL, not the whole traffic on CZUL. Control of CZUL is conducted by NavCanada, not YUL ATC.

      I think you are muddling the subjects as clearly you do not understand fully the situation. I purposely put a lot of abbreviations so that you can look them up and bring yourself up to speed.

      Delete
    17. Referreing to Quebec as a nation or implying that it is...don't make it so. Consult any map, phyical or virtual..it will suddenly hit you. There are no defined borders. Geography doesn't lie. LOLOLOL

      Quebec is still a bridesmaid I'm afraid, just one of eight LOL...

      It's a province..still a province...always a province...JUST a province...OF CANADA...DEAL WITH IT !!

      Delete
    18. ***10..I meant 10... LOL...one of ten !!!.....yep...it's really lost in the crowd...ain't it?? lol

      Delete
  10. At the Vigi Sante Reine Elizabeth long term care facility in Montreal, we were forbidden from speaking anything but french to each other by the head nurse. Even on our lunch breaks. This nurse really hated english but hated the Haitian staff speaking creole even more.

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  11. Good for you Meaghan Moran, speak English, speak it loud...any time you want. Demand service in fluent English everywhere you go in Quebec. If they can’t offer service in English, boycott the place, post it online...let people know...take control of the situation. Enough is enough when dealing with these racist "French" bigots…

    They deserve no respect…They can rot in hell, inside and outside Quebec.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The "French Bigot" are doing the same thing you are, but in reverse.

      Do you not see how you're the same as them? Exactly the same. An Anglo-supremacist instead of Franco, but that's the only difference.

      Delete
    2. Yannick, I'm curious, when someone in NB or ON is told or bullied to speak English, how is it done? Is is dressed up in the language of concern and morality (as in Quebec: "we're only defending our language and culture", "it's for your integration", "it's for the cohesion of the society"), or is it more direct (as in: "speak English, clown, because I can't stand your language")? Because contrary to what people may think, there is a difference between the dressed up bullying (pleasant but dishonest) and the direct one (nasty but honest).

      "It is one thing to do evil, another to do evil in the name of good. Both are destructive. But immoral morality involves a special warping of the moral fabric. Since it uses values to advance evil, it undermines the credibility of all values. People who simply do selfish or bad things without moralizing them can end up strengthening the moral fabric because when society identifies and punishes the wrongdoer, the understanding of morality is reinforced. But people who successfully carry out immoral acts in the name of values blur the line between morality and immortality, undermining confidence in ethical codes and eroding the credibility of all principles. Unchallenged and unchecked immoral morality is the fastest ticket to moral breakdown.

      The crisis of immoral morality contaminates personal life as well as politics. The immoral moralists of everyday life are not just the leading preachers from the pulpits of the halls of government. They are the "everyman" or "every-woman" moralists - and you can recognize them by their paternalism. Many of them may take their moralism from the official preachers of "truth" and "love", but many operate from their own personal pulpits. Many are not closely connected to official power as the snoops and busybodies in Orwell's Oceania. They are the annoying friends, neighbors, colleagues, or even strangers who are telling you what to do in the name of helping you. They control with the guise of concern and love. It is the kind of morality in personal life that can drive people literally mad, since the double message of control and love can quickly break down a person's clarity about what is real and what is good.

      Politically correct moralists on the Left as well as the Right seek power or status in the name of truth. They have propagated a kind of moral doublethink that obscures the real nature of the crisis of values. It is a moral breakdown orchestrated by those decrying the collapse in values."

      Charles Derber, "Morality Wars - How Empires, the Born-Again, and the Politically Correct Do Evil in the Name of Good"

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    3. Francophones come up with these "pleasant but dishonest" (your words) phrases because they need to reconcile their stance as being in favour of minority languages (especially their own) with the fact that they want other people to use their language.

      The Anglophones in the ROC are under no such compulsions. It's a curt "Sorry (not sorry), I don't speak French", or "Speak English to each other, so I can understand you".

      No window dressing. You might prefer it, I don't.

      Delete
    4. Well said, but he probably wont get it.......and thats not a racist comment meaning he's to dumb to understand cause he's french, rather, based on observation here ignorance plain and simple. Pointe Finale!!!!

      Delete
    5. Au contraire, I get it. I just think that in the end the result is the same. I do not accept that the distinction make one of these cases "bad" and the other "good". One is window-dressed, the other is not.

      Delete
    6. "No window dressing. You might prefer it, I don't. "

      I would actually. So would Prof. Charles Derber of Boston College, the author of the book from which I quoted. The book is exactly about window dressing of non-ethical behavior, by both the Right and the Left.

      To restate his claim: "People who simply do selfish or bad things without moralizing them can end up strengthening the moral fabric because when society identifies and punishes the wrongdoer, the understanding of morality is reinforced. But people who successfully carry out immoral acts in the name of values blur the line between morality and immortality, undermining confidence in ethical codes and eroding the credibility of all principles."

      Delete
    7. I can see the argument, I just don't buy it.

      Segregation in the southern US was supported by moralizing argument. People didn't come out and say "we don't want 'em niggers around our kids in school", they said things like "it is better for the coloured race if they are allowed to develop on their own" and such.

      In the end, that kind of moralizing can only influence those already convinced, and it was not a significant delaying factor when segregationist laws were abolished.

      Delete
    8. Derber actually has a section on the antebellum and postbellum South, because it provides a perfect example of immoral morality, as in cloaking of slavery and segregation in pious rhetoric.

      In fact, they said exactly this: "it is better for the coloured race if they are allowed to develop on their own", which Derber would consider worse than "we don't want 'em niggers around our kids in school", and Derber's argument is the opposite to yours: that this kind of moralizing can influence more than just those already convinced, whereas the nasty "we don't want 'em niggers around our kids in school" would push away the unconvinced, and might even change the minds of those already convinced.

      Delete
    9. *that this kind of moralizing can influence more than just those already convinced, but more importantly - it can help those already convinced to rationalize their beliefs and to soothe the discomfort felt deep down that we might be doing something wrong. In other words, immoral morality can help to deal with any doubts that creep in at a moment of "weakness".

      Delete
    10. "he's to dumb to understand cause he's french"

      This is a perfect example of undressed hostility that would repulse any right thinking person.

      But if he dressed it up as in: "We have to help Yannick, we have to save him from himself" (which was the standard argumentation in the British Empire about "saving" non-British "savages", and is a standard excuse of many activist FSL teachers in QC about saving immigrants to Quebec from themselves), some people might actually listen to Anonymous and not dismiss him out of hand.

      Remember also that besides looking for moral excuses to justify socio-economic arrangements that favor them, people have another motivation: the tendency to look for something greater in their lives, which makes immoral morality quite seductive and a quite useful tool for the elites to distract people and bring them on board.

      Delete
    11. "Do you (James Wolfe) not see how you're the same as them? Exactly the same. An Anglo-supremacist instead of Franco, but that's the only difference."

      Good point Yannick! Seems like Major General is on the verge of launching his own version of the OQLF.

      Delete
    12. The "French bigot" in reverse would be if James Wolfe managed a store and told his non-English employees to speak English to each other at their cigarette breaks.

      The IGA manager doing James Wolf in reverse would be her going into a store, demanding service in French, and if not getting it, then deciding to boycott the place and to tell all her friends about it....something which is actually encouraged in Quebec, and something that I don't have a problem with (i.e. punishing the store with your wallet, not with a language police raid).

      So although superficially similar, it's still apples and oranges. The "if they can’t offer service in English, boycott the place" philosophy is not a reverse of what the IGA manager did.

      Delete
    13. No, but it is a reverse of the people who go into stores looking for non-French things to complain and call for boycotts - something that is seen on this blog as an unacceptable behaviour.

      Delete
    14. Well, in both cases the presence of the English language, spoken or written, is under attack.

      Delete
    15. And I don't believe that languages are a zero-sum game - I don't believe that English has to be removed in order to ensure French customer service, so I don't agree with it.

      I do take offense at throwbacks like James Wolfe who want to start a witch hunt, though. How is it any different than the people who go hunting for complaints to make to the OQLF?

      Delete
  12. I find this story quite surprising. I remember growing up and going to french school, where the teachers would constantly remind us to "parlez français!". It was annoying at the time, but I realize that I was at a french school after all, and so still today it seems logical.

    I never imagined that people would push it that far, telling people which language they can and cannot speak in their private lives. Even the OQLF or Mario Beaulieu himself wouldn't go that far.

    I was suspicious of the whole story, but then I went to read the CTV article, and there is the store owner, Louise Menard, actually trying to defend her intolerance! Incredible...

    The customers should also be made aware of the stores language policies..

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's fairly standard for bosses to want their employees to communicate with each other in the boss's language.

      It is, after all, the whole reason behind the "right to work in French" in bill 101.

      Unfortunately, what was meant (or at least pitched) as a positive right - as in, a right that allowed those who wanted to work in French to do so, has become a negative right.

      In the same that you might be told that you have "a right to an education" (only example that comes to mind), the right is not so much a right as it is an obligation.

      It's like they looked at the original problem, fixed it, then went to cause the exact same problem, but on the other shoe. It's pretty sick.

      I myself was instructed which language to use with my coworkers on more than one occasion.

      Delete
    2. But Yannick, let's be realistic...

      If your boss decides that the working language is french, or english, or whatever, fine. You will/should then use that language when doing your job.
      If your boss addresses you in french, you're not going to answer in english, and then make a fuss about it. This all just seems like common sense (to me at least).

      But then I'm on my break. My break is my personal time. If I decided to take that time to go shopping, I then become a customer of that same store, right?
      Who's right is it to tell me what language to speak in my free time?

      There's a big difference between "work" and "free time" in my opinion.

      Delete
    3. So you think that the big thing about this story is not that the lady was instructed to talk to her coworkers and customers in French on company time, but solely that she was instructed to do the same on the off-time?

      Personally I disagree. Yes, if my boss addresses me in English, of course I will reply in English. What I don't want is that when I address my Francophone coworker, my boss interjects and says "No! In English only!"

      We both agree that what is off the clock is none of the boss's business.

      Delete
    4. Another twist in this story is when the girl said: "I'm not going to talk to clients in English, I would talk to them in French -- but if I want to talk to my friend on my break in English, I should be allowed".

      Why didn't she qualify the part about the customers, as in: I'm not going to talk to clients who prefer French in English? What if I'm the customer? Shouldn't she be allowed to speak English to me? Did the manager instruct the employees to answer English client queries in French? Even if the "customer is always right" and in this case the girl is an anglo so she would speak her language to the client?

      I would not be surprised if that manager is also forcing French on customers. I do have this experience sometimes: I ask a question in English, get a reply in French. The only question then is: is this management-driven or employee-driven? It could be either one or both.

      Delete
    5. "Even the OQLF or Mario Beaulieu himself wouldn't go that far."

      Imperatif Francais did voice an opinion about which language is "appropriate" in private lives. I don't think the OQLF and Beaulieu would disagree.

      Delete
    6. @Adski : She never said that she couldn't speak English with Anglo customers.

      Delete
    7. The girl didn't elaborate on communicating in English with Anglo customers, but given the attitude of management, I suspect they hate hearing any English at all in the store.

      Delete
    8. Yannick writes:

      "Personally I disagree. Yes, if my boss addresses me in English, of course I will reply in English. What I don't want is that when I address my Francophone coworker, my boss interjects and says 'No! In English only!'"

      If it is within the work environment and the parameters have been established at the time of hiring -- that is, work-related communications must be in one particular language -- then I have no problem with it. That's what the conditions of employment were and the employees were free to accept or not accept those conditions prior to accepting the offer of employment.

      For example, if it is work-related, the boss or others may want to benefit from the conversation and what is being discussed.

      However, even if work-related and the only two people within earshot of the conversation are the ones speaking a particular language, then I don't see any problem with that...after all, who is able to monitor what is going on anyway?

      So, I don't have a problem with IGA instructing their employees while in the work environment to speak French only, if indeed that is what they were told.

      Delete
    9. We will have to agree to disagree Tony. If a person chooses to discuss in another language to a coworker, then clearly it was not something that was particularly important to everyone. In most cases the directive to "speak white" on the job is vindictive and not for job reasons.

      Delete
  13. An interesting article for the seppies about their turncoats and fellow citizens that have left this crazy place:
    http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=20071001_110039_110039
    you are now welcome to have your own life outside quebec and perhaps even a job! That would be a pleasant change for all of you.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Plus an interesting Sun News video on the Menchies Spoon incident. I hate these separatists - they make us look so stupid and ignorant.
      http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/2503670598001

      Delete
    2. Arrêtez de vous informer chez Sun news/Québecor et déjà vous serez moins stupide et ignorante.

      Delete
    3. FROM ED
      ADSKI, you have a strong habit of being overly philosophical/psychological. I thin you and Yannick must try not to over think things stay with the real and the obvious. Ed

      Delete
    4. Ed, how about this: you let me have my habits, and I'll let you have your habits. Fair enough?

      Delete
    5. FROM ED
      Adski, I'm not trying to take away your habits but I reserve the right to comment on them when you post on open dialogue. Ed

      Delete
    6. We can't stay away from the day-to-day concerns.

      Delete
  14. The Editor writes:

    "And so like David facing off against Goliath, it took a 17 year old girl to show us all up as the gutless and spineless toads that we are.
    Yes I said it."

    and

    "So we suck it up and take it up the rear end.....Again, sorry to be graphic, but Meaghan dished out a monumental lesson in civics.

    "Without sacrifice and commitment, evil cannot be overcome.
    Our English community has for too long rolled over and played dead because it was just too damn inconvenient to fight."

    I would remind the Editor that this is precisely how Howard Galganov feels, who reserves most of his contempt for the English community of Quebec that did not support him and, according to him, gave him much more grief than the francophone community.

    I bring this up because there has been instances in the past in which the Editor has taken Galganov to task for being too brittle in the language debate. Well, in this instance, the Editor matches Galganov in outrageous language.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Pretty sad story again but I doubt that this is commonplace. But since language tensions are so high now each and every story like this is getting major media coverage. I am not condoning it..but there are always idiots like this on both sides. I can assure you that this type of harassment has happened to francophones elsewhere in canada. These stories in my opinion are used to enrage people and fan the flames of hatred between the two groups. If it becomes a widespread phenomena then maybe we need to worry about it.

    I do agree that to some degree the anglo community are cowards..for electing the same bums over and over. They are so paranoid and fearful that all they can do is vote for the Liberals time in and time out. Well nothing changes as long as the Liberals or PQ are in power. So all you moaners and groaners better keep your mouths shut if you want things to change in this province and YOU are not prepared to do anything different to make it change.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "all they can do is vote for the Liberals time in and time out."

      What about the situation that forces this choice? You always had so little to say about it, other than apologizing for it.

      If I'm voting for the back-stabbing Liberals, what does it say about others, including your CAQ? Aren't I almost spitting in Legault's face? After all his smiles and pats on the back, I'm still telling him no.

      What does it say about Marois if I prefer the crook Charest to her? What does it say about Harel if I prefer the crook Gerard Tremblay?

      Don't you get the pattern? The pattern is the following: we prefer crooks over paternalistic seppies, and we won't trust anyone who was ever a seppie even if for a day.

      I'd rather have my wallet picked by a crooked politician, than be pontificated to on what language I should speak. And since the choice, every time and at every administative level, seems to be between crooks and pontificators or ex-pontificators, I always have to go with the crooks.

      You somehow attribute it to the weakness. I attribute it of not tolerating someone who emanates even traces of the seppie musk, even the most minute traces that he's been trying to wash off but they still linger in the background, and come out as in the bill 14 debate.

      Do you get it now? Or should I explain it again later, after you write a paragraph on how the CAQ is the only one that can clean up the place, and how they are not separatists, and how we can trust them.

      Delete
    2. I find it pathetic adski..that you and others would rather vote for crooks...but worse than that a party that is as or more incompetent in running this province than the PQ. And that your little mind is so closed that you cant even imagine that perhaps the CAQ are not at all like the PQ..and the fact that not everyone who was a seperatist is a seperatist for life.

      The reality is that most people on this forum dont believe the Liberals are crooks..you obviously do so I give you some credit there.

      And what exactly is your solution adski other than your philosophical musings that often end up having no real point in the end?? I think I can answer that..you dont have a solution and probably dont care.

      You obviously dont get it adski..there is more to be worried about than the same old language debate that everyone on this forum waxes on about day after day. Quebec is at a point where financial collapse could be just a few years away without urgent action. You probably dont give a damn as you seem indifferent about most subjects but I care about the future of where I live and where my family lives. And all I hear on this forum is the same old garbage that has got us nowhere..you my friend are part of the problem not the solution.

      Delete
    3. Fortunately, now that the Equality Party is rising up again, you DO have the choice to vote for a party that support anglo rights (and , sad to say, French rights) in Kaybec. It almost makes me want to move back there.
      Almost.
      I think four decades is enough. What saddens me is not so much the beaten down reaction of English Quebec but the general indifference (slowly changing ) of English Canada (NOT INCLUDING the racist francos in NB, or Little Quebec as it's now known).
      I have no problem with bilingualism. AS LONG AS IT START IN AND WITH KAYBEC. And the racist francos will have NONE of that.
      THe ROC should be ONLY as French as Kaybec is English. THAT is proportional bilingualism.
      I cannot expect francos to push for equal rights but I cannot believe the naivete and sheer dissociation with the act that they are a privilege class in ROC, never mind the federal government which is FAR overly represented by them.
      I forget who it was who said if he were dying he would choose a poorer doctor who would speak to him in French rather than a better one who spoke ENglish. Obviously I hope he gets his choice one day---but when less qualified fracnos are given jobs and promoted because of language skills and nothing else, we have a serious problem in our society. Especially when it comes to health care.
      (And yes, it happens far far too often here in Ontario.)

      Delete
    4. I nominate Meghan Moran for the Order of Quebec and Order of Canada. Who's with me?
      She may be our Rosa Parks or John Kennedy or any fighter for civil liberties,fairness and equality.

      (Oh, is there any way of automagically banning any post that appears in French only? Just asking)

      Delete
    5. complicated, reading your replies gets frustrating. I wonder if you even bother reading what anyone else has to say, or if you're just hitting reply to tell us what idiots we are. If you paid attention to what some of us post, you might see that a lot of us agree with many of your ideas - just not all of them.

      First of all, (and so you can better label me as an Anglo-Liberal-Lover), calling the Liberals all crooks is dishonest. Call them incompetent, useless, fine. But if you're going to make accusations that aren't based on your opinion, you should show some evidence to back that up, and something more than "they were in power for a long time!". If not, you're no better than the separatists with their propaganda.

      You keep coming back to the language debate, what you don't realize is that's not our only motivation. I can speak both languages perfectly; you'd have a very hard time figuring out if I was more anglo or franco from hearing me speak, so to be honest the language issue doesn't affect me much.
      Have you ever considered that maybe I'm against the whole separation / language laws thing because it's bad for the economy?

      Now you will probably tell me that the CAQ is the only party whose main focus is the economy, and how they're going to whip our province back into shape, etc etc. You might be entirely right, but here's my problem: I learned that you should never trust what a politician says, and that rule hasn't failed me yet. Yes the CAQ have some nice plans and some nice ideas, but so far they are all words. The PQ and the Liberals also say nice things to get votes.

      Give the CAQ a leader who:
      a) Can speak english properly, in order to be able to do business with the rest of the world
      b) Wasn't a terrorist-supporting separatist
      and they have my vote any day, based on their nice list of promises.



      Delete
    6. "Fortunately, now that the Equality Party is rising up again"

      Ti-Lou,vous devriez cesser de consommer de l'alcool de contrebande :)

      Delete
    7. Tree stump - I have given many reasons in the past of how the Liberals have mismanaged this province.

      1) They have racked up as much debt or even more than the PQ while in power. They added about 70 billion during their 9 year tenure up to 2012. We now have the largest debt by far in Canada and also the highest taxes. Hence they are as economically incompetent as the PQ and among the worst in North America.

      2) Being blind to or participating in rampant corruption during their 9 year tenure. I would argue this corruption was amongst the worst in Canada in history. They only called this charbonnear commission at the last possible minute and of course they made sure no revelations came out until aftter the election..how bloody convenient.

      3) Doing next to nothing to help anglos in this province but gladly taking our vote. It seems to me they enacted the first language legislation in this province and support Bill 101. Charest even mentioned he was open to strengthening it a few days before the last election before he sugddenly backtracked. It seems they also bolstered the staff of the OLQF during theie tenure. They regularly ignore the anglo community or show indifference.

      4) Totally mishandling the student crisis..from Charest refusing to talk to the students which just angered them more. Then totally caving in after his crybaby education minister quit..this is a great example of how not to negotiate and handle a crisis.

      5) Doing nothing to curb the power of trade unions in this province who abuse their status and are involved in crimimal or near criminal activities.

      6) Have done next to nothing to stop the rapid decay of infrastructure around the province. We can thank the federal government for the massive stimulus program to help stem the tide a bit but not the incompetent Liberals.

      7) For expanding and introducing totally unsustaible social programs such as 7 dollar per day daycare and parental leave.

      8) For badmouthing Alberta about the oilsands but gladly taking the 7 billion per year largely derived from this very dirty money..bloody hypocrites.


      And on and on and on. What exacrtly is your solution quebecer of tree stump..you whine about quebec like most people on this forum but when you have a chance to do something concrete such as electing a new party you fall back to the old ways which clearly have not worked. Please explain to me what the Liberals have done for you and this province?? How many more decades of Liberals incompetence does it take to convince people here they are not the party capable of running this province.

      I am frustrated because all I hear is the same tired excuses from you and others. Many of you are acting in an idiotic way..its insanity..repeating the same action and expecting a different result..seems idiotic to me..correct me if I am wrong.

      The Liberals have clearly had more than their fair share of time to convince us all about how great they are..even if they were just average I could live with it but they are utterly incompetent. Hence explain to me how things get better with them in power again?? And please give me a convincing argument against the CAQ..not more of your paranoid seperatist talk.

      Delete
    8. I would never vote for someone who applauded terrorist murderers like Francois Legault did, and I don't care how long ago it was. There shouldn't be a statute of limitations on reprehensible behavior of that kind.

      Delete
    9. Complicated: "there is more to be worried about than the same old language debate that everyone on this forum waxes on about day after day"

      And yet, you're here on regular basis. Day after day.

      Note that everyone on this forum would like nothing more than the end of this debate. Who drives the debate though? A blog with a few posters? Or higher powers?

      Are we commenting on things we create? Or on things that are set in motion by others?

      Where is the point of origin? Us? Or an IGA manager, who took advantage of social permissivity and her power and decided to act out her cultural prejudices on one of her employees? Why can't we comment on this, even if the economy is important? By commenting on this issue, are we somehow contributing to the decline of the economy?

      There is a reason why you want us to stop focusing on this "old language debate", and it has nothing to do with the economy or other "more important issues". The reason is that you want us to accept everything that is thrown our way on the subject of language. Your listing of "higher priorities" is just that. It's your way of using things which are really important in order to divert attention and de-prioritize other things which may be important that you'd rather see buried.

      How about this: I will keep my list of priorities to comment on, and you will keep yours. Our priorities do not have to compete. We can talk about the economy as well as cultural issues. One does not have to preclude the other. The fact that you want to preclude one makes me think that economy is not your concern at all, but rather a subject you use for distracting from other issues.

      Delete
    10. @Complicated

      What is rather pathetic is that on a previous post, you excused Legault and dismissed him in rather nonchalant fashion for having applauded a terrorist. You dismissed the whole thing like it was no big deal that FL cheered a murderer. Hate to say this, cause more often than not, I enjoy your posts, but frankly, it speaks volumes about you. I think the CAQ mantra has literally gone to your head. When has it ever been appropriate or acceptable to applaud a terrorist? And to defend such an action? Didn't your mother teach you better? What F. Legault did was uncool 30yrs ago, it is uncool today, and it will be uncool in 30 years, and shouldn't be trivially dismissed, in order to drive home a point... at any cost. It's poor Form.

      -10

      Delete
    11. Way to go adski! Love it and right on!

      And you too AnceTOTE!

      Delete
    12. WOW = complicated: for Christ's sake man, when are you going to get it into your head that the main problems with the quebec economy are ALL related to the damn language problem? I just can't believe that you don't understand that by now man. Get a grip. Until the problems with freedoms and rights are resolved, none of this will change.

      Delete
    13. @cutie003

      "...problems with the quebec economy are ALL related to the damn language problem..."

      i'm keeping this one for next time you accuse separatists of focusing all their attention on language. can't you see you are the one that's obsessed with this?

      also can you tell me what are the main problems with the quebec economy? i see company shares doing good, unemployment being low, deficit decreasing, corrupt politicians getting cuffed, etc.

      Delete
    14. @anectote

      "You dismissed the whole thing like it was no big deal that FL cheered a murderer."

      what murderer did francois legault cheered, mate?

      Delete
    15. @adski

      "I attribute it of not tolerating someone who emanates even traces of the seppie musk,..."

      what party would you have supported if the liberals had chosen bachand as their new leader?

      Delete
    16. Est-ce que les anglos considèrent que leur compatriote Bain est un meurtier?

      Delete
  16. What I find most interesting is that Meaghan Moran is her age: 17.

    We are constantly fed the meme that young anglos in Quebec, being the most bilingual age group and, therefore, most at home with the French language, are the ones least opposed to Bill 101.

    Yet all indications are that the opposite is the reality. And I'm not just referring to the anecdotal evidence of this one incident with IGA and Meaghan Moran. I refer to a Jack Jedwab and his Missisquoi Institute (beneficiary of much federal funding)which published a study in 2001.

    In it, various demographic groups of anglos were asked what was the most important problems to them. Out of all the groups, it was the youth demographic (18-24) that not only put Bill 101 as the #1 problem but did so by a margin significantly larger than any of the other groups.

    See:

    http://www.chssn.org/en/pdf/New%20Anglo-final.pdf

    Although he mentions that the youth are the most opposed to Bill 101, Jedwab doesn't tie this in to the other part of the study that demonstrates that the youth are the most bilingual. He doesn't make this observation, I suspect, as it is too politically incorrect to say so. After all, the whole idea of the bilingual myth perpetrated over the past 50 years is that the more anglophones learn French, the more "at home" they will be in Quebec.

    The uncomfortable reality is that the opposite very well may be the case.

    ReplyDelete
  17. H.Marshall

    I shop at IGA. Everyone is extremely nice and always smiling. There are always two sides to every story. Please don't kill the messenger. The store owner is going by the law.Furthermore, there is nothing more annoying than to have two employees talking to each other, in whatever language (here I am thinking of English) at the cash register and/or bagging groceries and ignoring the custmer. I have witnessed this a few times. This IGA is a service company, and the law dictates that the working language is French. Most young people are well-educated and make the IGA proud. But some do not know any better. I feel this young lady is looking for instant fame.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I agree that there must be more to this story than what we've heard, but surely you cannot defend telling people what language they can or cannot speak during their personal time (break) ?

      "The store owner is going by the law."
      Even the OQLF stated that this isn't the law.

      Delete
    2. FROM ED
      Hi H.Marshall, I think you've hit the nail on the head. The store owner is following the law. Whether the law is legal or not, it's what the OQLF is demandiing and it's that group that she has to answer to. To avoid more harassment or fines she is walking a tight rope. The girl has only her job at stake. the store owner , has a business, other employees who need their jobs and customers to consider.. Editor credits her with standing up to OQLF thugs. That's not true. It's the store owner ho has to face them. To call us cowards and expect us to bow down to her is away off base. Ed

      Delete
    3. H.Marshall,

      The store owner is going by the law.

      Which law? Kindly show us.

      Delete
    4. FROM ED
      Read what i said TROY. Whether it is the law or not, it's what the language thugs are pushing people to do. We present here dozens of examples of them pushing their shit. Don't try to say it's not happening to blacken the store owner. Use an open mind This woman is trying to manage a super market, give people employment and keep customers happy. EDITOR and some of you are trying to crucify a woman who is also herself a victim. The girl has an out , quit the job. The store owner is trapped in the PQ blog jam. Ed

      Delete
    5. How is this woman a victim? Listen to the recording. She is a first class bully.

      You're waving quite a story here of a manager scared of language militants and just protecting her store.

      I hear a lot of cultural prejudice on the recording, none solicited by any militant mob. It's all her, plus some guy backing her up (2 managers vs one teenage employee).

      And what do you mean by: "Whether it is the law or not, it's what the language thugs are pushing people to do". Are you saying that it's not only necessary to obey unjust laws because they were passed by the state, it's also necessary to obey non-laws because relentless angry militants are demanding these non-laws respected?

      Quite a lot of bs has been offered today in defense of this IGA manager. This one tops them all.

      Delete
    6. I literally had to go away for at least an hour before I could comment on Ed's comment. This is the worst thing I've ever read anywhere. What the hell are people thinking? OMG= Ed= I don't give a sweet shit if it's Donald Trump telling his employees what language they can speak! NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO TELL ANYONE WHAT LANGUAGE THEY CAN SPEAK AND/OR IN FRONT OF WHOM! Get a grip on reality man. This is still, to the best of my knowledge, a free country! There is no fu====g excuse for telling anyone what language in which to communicate!


      Delete
    7. FROM ED
      It's not just what she is saying, it's also why.. I heard the recording and I read the girl's testimony. How about b letting the other side speak without deciding she's lying. Ed

      Delete
    8. H.Marshall, you are very mistaken. THERE IS NO SUCH LAW that dictates what language people can speak with their friends at work, most especially in their break time, and this has even been redundantly confirmed by the OQLF.

      Did you even bother to read the story? Evidently not, so here it is again. Please try to read it all the way through, this time. Nobody was ignoring any customer so stop making things up. The young lady is perfectly bilingual and works in fluent French with store customers. However, SHE WAS TOLD BY HER MANAGER THAT SHE IS FORBIDDEN TO SPEAK ENGLISH WITH HER FRIEND WHILE ON BREAK IN THE LUNCH ROOM BECAUSE SHE WAS “ON COMPANY PROPERTY”. Do you finally get it now?

      The mere fact that you bothered to type your post, citing some imaginary law, is a perfect example how out of control the language situation has become in Quebec with Bill 101. Some people think they can use it to justify whatever fantasy they want it to mean, regardless of what it actually says.

      Delete
    9. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    10. Ed, I’m sorry but you’re losing it. Most, but not all, readers have understood by now that you are like a pleasant but dotty old uncle.

      Perhaps you should consider signing your comments off with “Ed, your dotty old uncle” from now on.

      Delete
  18. I for one shop at IGA, but no longer. We should collectively boycott IGA until Sobery's pull the franchise from that Louise Menard bigotg

    Good onya Megan, Canada is very lucky to have such a principles citizen!

    Marcmancan

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. it's all good...the bad press IGA's is dealing with presently will quickly become Louise Menard's problem real soon...let's see how SHE handles that backlash !!! LOL

      Delete
    2. Dès lundi,plus persone ne parlera de cette anecDOTE,sauf quelques insignifiants angryphones.

      Delete
    3. "Dès lundi,plus persone ne parlera de cette anecDOTE,sauf quelques insignifiants angryphones."

      It made CTV, Lisa Laflamme reporting......and now the entire ROC knows...LOL...AND THE WORLD

      OH LOOK...JF Lisee just endorsed freedom to speak any language ..WHILE ON BREAK !! Mmm..(mental note)...Maybe he's not a complete idiot...mmm

      Delete
    4. THE MANAGER OF THE IGA HAS BEEN SUSPENDED LOLOLOLOLOL...Menard suspended the HR manager...

      HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA....$$$$ is the bottom line.....I think that pesky alarm went off again...the one warning you a seppie's in REVERSE LOL

      I LOVE IT !!

      Well Folks...that's POWER...it took a 17yr old to show us HOW !!

      This is how you fight these morons...EMBARRASS THEM!!

      Delete
    5. AnecTOTE,

      I think it (S.R) is right. By Tuesday (Monday is a holiday, remember) less people will talk about this story because there will be another embarrassing story - language, corruption or otherwise - to come out from that province.

      Delete
    6. Not so sure about that Troy...not so sure...

      But that another embarrassing story will emerge.. is a given LOL

      Delete
  19. Just a LINK in to IGA web site. We should all ask then why is IGA a bigoted company?

    http://www.iga.net/en/contact/contact_us/

    ReplyDelete
  20. Attention Readers;
    I've added a recording of the conversation that the young girl was put through. It is unbelievably prejudicial.
    It is in the first part of the recording;

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks, Editor. I will give it a listen.

      Delete
    2. I listened to the recording of the conversation. The man and the woman who talked with (talked to...) the young girl are deux beaux épais.

      Delete
  21. The irony of the whole hoopla is, just like Pure laine highlights above, IGA stands for Independent Grocers Alliance, a U.S.-based franchise. That name is never frenchized, unlike KFC => PFK. Why nobody ever bothers about that?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ils n'ont jamais été représentés au Québec sous le nom de "Independent Grocers Alliance" tandis que le premier nom du "resto" a été "poulet frit Kentucky" pendant des années,jusqu'à tout récemment où l'entreprise a décidé de simplifier leur nom.Ce qui n'a jamais été le cas pour IGA.

      Delete
    2. F'k your a stupid frog. IGA = Independent Grocers Alliance.

      Quick...call the OQLfrog. What does the sign say ...IGA or not.

      PFK...are you serious...Of course you are. Je vais prendre une poutine avec moi PFK.

      Vous voulez un "pasta" avec votre PFK.

      Do you not see how ridiculous you are.

      It is really quite funny ou tres drole comme vous disant.

      Stupid fr*g.



      Delete
  22. FROM ED
    The dirty part of all this is that after de Courcey and her fkying monkees have pushed the woman into this, they save their own skins by saying it's not the law. We never made it the law. We have seen enough examples on this blog to know that the lingo cops don't care what the law says they simply lie after. The woman is accused of lying to cover up. Why i she the kiar and not them? Is it to be in line with others on this thread.
    . This lady has a lot at stake and she should not ose anything without a fair judgement. Look into your hearts and
    post your true assessment of the case. Ed

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. i can't figure out what your point is, mate. de courcy and lingo cops have nothing to do in this episode.

      you sped read yannick vs adski up there did you? lose the diagonal scan and come back when you have understood what's at stake here.

      Delete
  23. Le Québec et le Mexique sont dorénavant deux pays amis...Ou amigos

    Pauline Marois a rencontré le président du Mexique

    http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/politique-quebecoise/201306/27/01-4665524-pauline-marois-a-rencontre-le-president-du-mexique.php

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. In what language do you think they talk with each other?

      Delete
    2. À quoi servent les traducteurs selon vous?

      Delete
    3. Haha! Look at the video... nothing but Canadian and Mexican flags all around La Marois when she's trying to drum up business abroad. Hypocrite that she is, even she admits that she doesn't talk about sovereignty when she wants to talk about MOOLAH!

      Marois and Maple Leaves... I love it!!! :)
      Thanks for that link!

      Delete
    4. Notice how she didn't insist they remove the Canadian Flag from view..lol...Hypocrite you say?? I think you're being too kind.

      Delete
    5. S.R,

      In the last post you commented:

      La Première ministre au Mexique

      Où est le drapeau du Canada?


      Why do you not make the same comment here?

      Delete
    6. Troy...I think you just kicked the beer can ....Cher...eat your heart out LOL

      Delete
    7. "Le Québec et le Mexique sont dorénavant deux pays amis...Ou amigos"

      No, actually the Mexicans dislike the Quebecois. Loud obnoxious people, leave little tips and talk down to service staff. What else is new. Same in all of the Caribbean and also in Florida. In Maine, they put up with you to take your dollars. SR, you are a loser just as all your Quebecois brethren. You are despised every where you go. I know this too well being quite well travelled. Not spent a lot of time in France, but apparently they have a dim view of Quebecois as well for the butchery of the proper Parisian French. (need to subtitle your productions in Quebec so they can understand)

      Must be horrible to be such an outsider in your own nation. You know the one! Not the one you aspire to but the one that is reality for you and will never change. Good thing you know English well...LOL

      Delete
  24. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  25. FROM ED
    R.S. You may think I'm dotty, the correct term is doddy, (dotty is feminine). I thank God that I can still think straight enough to see both sides of an issue. I pray you will have the same when you reach my doddiness.
    Cutie, I can't believe you. The one who always jumps in to defend fairness. You're always crying the blues about losing the value of your property. What if IGA takes away her franchise because of the bad publicity we are helping to create. She could lose hundreds of thousands judged on the court of public opinion which we know can be and is often wrong. The same court that judges the Libeerals crooked and gave u the PQ to live under. This woman has obviously worked long and hard to get where she is but stands in danger of losing it because of a young girl who had nothing to lose. She wasn't fired by the way, she quit her job and caused her friend to lose his.
    This case should be judged at an official hearing where she gets to give her side, not judged by hot heads here. Ed

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "This case should be judged at an official hearing where she gets to give her side, not judged by hot heads here. Ed"

      I think that should be done more often Ed. Sometimes though, nothing happens without the public opinion getting angry.

      That said, I have a hard time believing that the manager was acting under duress from the OQLF. But it's possible? The OQLF has pulled weirder stunts.

      Delete
  26. @Ed

    I have to ask, did you listen to the interview this young girl gave? Did you bother to read about the incident? Clearly, there was an anti-English campaign alive and well and in process at this IGA. To imply that other languages can reduce the place to a "ghetto" is the epitome of Racisim. Do you think the manager who was warning this young girl (and it's on tape) just pulled it all out of her ass?? The guidelines had to come from Menard, the store owner. For as long as she got away with it, the anti-English campaign was perpetuated. Anglo employees would warn each other about speaking English. C'mon Ed, you can't possibly be serious. What this young 17yr old did is what we all should do, denounce Injustice. Please don't a shed tear for Mme Menard, ..Anglos are the last people she worries about...(until now of course).

    ReplyDelete
  27. As I start writing this response, I'm the 180th, possibly further down if there are submissions in the interim. No matter.

    One thing for sure: In Keith B's rants on YouTube, he does put his mouth where his mouth is (as opposed to his money) about starting a party that aims to throw Quebec out of Canada instead of the other way around. I think that time is getting ever so closer, and hopefully Ezra Levant will crank up the rhetoric.

    This "Mme Ménard", supposedly the payroll cheque signer at the IGA, is she the franchisee? If so, I hope IGA takes away her franchise and gives her sweet f--k-all for it. Where did she study business acumen? The Adolf Hitler School of Business? A ghetto of English? A ghetto of Spanish? OH, THE HUMANITY OF IT ALL!

    As Buffalo Springfield used to sing:"...paranoia runs deep...into your minds it will creep...". Sure sounded like it creeped into the small minds who admonished young Ms. Moran, and far too many other paranoid racists like this "Mme. Ménard" and her Gestapo of rabid language guard dogs.

    Editor, you wrote " it took a 17 year old girl to show us all up as the gutless and spineless toads that we are."

    B I N G O !

    Bingo, baby, BINGO!


    This is EXACTLY why I'm in my 29th year away from Quebec.
    This is EXACTLY why my mind was made up ten years before that, as an adolescent still in high school, to leave Quebec after completing my education, and leave I did the day after my convocation from university a full 31 years ago this month. I've never, NEVER, NEV-VER looked back, I have ZERO regrets for my decision!

    I've written it before and I'll write it again. Now I want one of two things: (1) Expel Quebec from Canada; (2) Cut off every last dime of equalization and all money Quebec gets from the federal system beyond what they contribute to it.

    Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. BULLETIN!...HOWARD GALGANOV IS HOLDING A RALLY AT NOON ON SUNDAY, JUNE 30TH DOWNTOWN!

      From Howard's Blog: "On June 30, 2013, the day before Canada Day (July the 1st), which in Quebec is the OFFICIAL Provincial moving-day, designed as a slap in the face to Canada’s Birthday, I will take to the street (McGill College between Sherbrooke and President Kennedy) in front of the office of Quebec’s SEPARATIST ultra LEFTIST Premier Pauline Marois, whose RACIST disdain for any culture that is not French Ethnocentric Quebecois is no secret.

      For more details, go to: http://www.galganov.com/editorials.asp?id=1561

      Be there!

      BULLETIN!...HOWARD GALGANOV IS HOLDING A RALLY AT NOON ON SUNDAY, JUNE 30TH DOWNTOWN!

      Delete
  28. Montreal had the potential to become a world class cosmopolitan centre forty years ago. Because of the inward-looking prejudicial path taken by linguistic nationalist separatists, Montreal dwindled down to become a backwater banana republic, run by corrupt cabals, graced by crumbling infrastructure. The highways and bridges are a disgrace. You dare not drive under one of the overpasses for fear that the thing will collapse on top of you.

    The pride of Montreal is gone. The separatists, with their pathetic fixation on monoculture, never understood the vibrancy of a polyglot society. The very special mood of this town that once made it Canada's first city is gone. Due to the separatists and the anglo exodus, Montreal's future international possibilities were totally ruined and all of Canada as well as all of Quebec suffered as a result. As for what happened to this girl, it is disgusting.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Agree that the bigots in Quebec are disgusting

      On the other Canada has not suffered. Those in Quebec with work ethic and business acumen left to the benefit of Toronto and other Canadian cities. The exodus continues today into the West.

      Quebec is quite frankly a disgusting cess pool of despots, bigots and crooked people. Just look at the fat pig prime minister ...check out the sweet deal she got on Isle Bizarde and the fat paycheck of her beau.

      Canada would be far better without Quebec and their agenda of self destruction, which, by the way, they want to share with the ROC.

      The Divorce is imminent. Let the bigots go their own way and fail on their own (not that they need any help in this department)

      Just sayin.

      It is really time to say good bye. Poutine is not good for you anyway.



      Delete
  29. ATTENTION READERS!
    I've added an update at the end of the post.
    BTW, we're coming up on 200 comments, so remember to use the 'Load more' button to see the latest comments

    ReplyDelete
  30. It’s unsurprising that the pequistes have been publicly shamed once again. Nevertheless, the disgraceful lies that were propagated in this recording are so shocking that they ought to become known to everyone, including non-francophones. People mock facile comparisons with fascism and yet, there is no other possible interpretation to the intimidation that this teenager was subjected to by not one but TWO superiors at work, WHO CITED IMAGINARY LAWS AT HER in order to cow her into submission, and yet she bravely stood her ground. As an adult, I’d find it hard being subjected to such a two-on-one situation. Cowing an adult in this fashion is very brazen, but for a teenage girl who stood up for herself… well, bravissimo!

    Here is a verbatim translation of the conversation (as best I could make out), for the record:

    “I think it was Melanie, her name, the lady, she told me that we don’t have the right to speak downstairs…On the employers’ work site… even in the employees’ lounge, you must speak in French. OK, but what I understood is that we are allowed to talk in the employees’ room, that’s what she told me. But, do you find this to be normal? Speaking English? Any language. In the store? Mm-hmm. I think that’s fine. I have no problem with that. I worked at Future Shop and other places where we were allowed to speak our language, as we wished. I understand if the other person didn’t speak it, then we would speak their language, but if we speak English and French, then why shouldn’t we be allowed to?

    Well, if I, as an employer… Madame Ménard, she is a French-Canadian… OK… who she signs our paycheques. And what she asks is that, within her walls, people speak the language of work, which is the language of Quebec… It’s a law! The language of work is French... Yes but it’s not a right to speak in English, it’s like... What is this right, I don’t understand. Like, we have the right to speak whatever language we want.

    No, but what we don’t understand is that… it’s not because we’re contemptuous of the English, that’s not it at all, that’s not it at all. Well, for me it’s English because I don’t speak other languages besides English and French so for me, it’s English. Yep. For others, it may be that Spanish or… I understand all that but what I don’t understand is the fact we can’t speak… what I understand is not to speak English because the guy, the bagger, he didn’t speak English only but I knew him so I spoke to him in English and he said “No, no, don’t speak to me in English” because he had already received a warning, so I was like, I don’t understand why. Like, if we can both speak English, what’s the problem?

    It’s because we must, according to the law, in the workplace… because there are people who come to inspect from the government to see if things go on in English, in French I mean, in the store and there are people who could make complaints as well, customers might hear you speaking English and make a complaint because they know it’s a law, OK, a provincial one… so we have to have our employees speak in French… it’s not because I have anglophone friends, it’s not because… I READ THE GAZETTE [Ed: said the manager!]… No, no… it’s not because we have anything against them, that, it’s not that at all. Except that, we are stuck between normal law and consumer law and we must apply the law. [unintelligible]

    I have anglophone friends and, doesn’t matter, but we have to apply it so we speak in French here and when you come here, it’s stupid but if you meet you meet an anglophone, you speak to him in English. If you speak French and you see he’s an anglophone, then you won’t lose your client, you’ll speak to him in English. The law permits this. The only thing is that first you speak French and then, if it’s an anglophone, you continue in English. I understand that.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Except that, between employees, if an employee doesn’t understand English, he doesn’t know what you’re saying, or if there’s one who speaks Spanish... Yes but if I’m speaking to an employee who I know already and I know he’s anglophone… I’m not talking about you, I’m talking about the one next to you… for example, in the meat section, he speaks Spanish… I have more who speak Spanish than English or French, OK. Yes, so we must speak French or else people will separate, I understand, but I really don’t agree with that.

      Listen, look, you don’t agree with that, then you will take your punishment. I’m not bothered… because you don’t seem to understand that it’s a law and that we don’t have the choice as an employer. I said I understood and I called the Labour Board and they told me it’s a violation, so I don’t understand. A violation, at the Labour Board?! They explained it wrong to you at the Labour Board because it’s the law in Quebec to speak… Madame Marois doesn’t stop speaking about it, how they fighting about it, because downtown on Ste. Catherine St. we are being welcomed in English.

      Listen, we’re going to take her, listen… We don’t understand each other. Yes, we do, very well, it’s just that I disagree with that and I understand it’s the law, OK, so I called the Labour Board and they told me what they said. Well, if I called the Labour Board, they’d give another answer. That’s what the civil servants at the Labour Board do. I’m sorry, but it’s been 25 years that I’ve been in the business and that’s why I tell you that the Labour Board will orient the answer in the way that you asked. That’s why I tell you that but I don’t want to fight with you but look, we have a union agreement here, that is superior to the labour law, and in our union agreement, it’s written that our working language and that employees must speak French, so look…

      OK, well I don’t understand why… when I did my training, I didn’t sign anything that said that. It’s already in the law, so it’s not assigned, is that it? Well, all laws, you have to know all laws. Yes, I understand but I worked at […] and we never had that. Well, of course you never had that… “Future Shop, it’s a gitch [?] It’s from American. C’est United State” [ED: said in mock English]. Yes, but it’s in Quebec. Yes, but it’s because that it’s in Quebec that we are fighting with this. People don’t respect the fact that in Quebec the working language is French. Yes, but it exists anyway… there’s lots of space for… It doesn’t mean that there haven’t been any complaints…

      I will tell you something even more insignificant than that… OK? We have a store at Complexe Desjardins, OK? We have lots of clients who are Chinese, because Chinatown is next door. OK. Madame Ménard bought it and they bought plenty of Chinese products for the clientele. The OQLF inspectors are just up the hill, at Sherbrooke St. and St. Urbain, they’re practically in our backyard. They come at lunchtime. They looked at the products… and the store called me saying, Madame, we have two OQLF documents about you… because the product had no mention of French on it. Yes, I understand that but this is not the same thing. Yes it is! It’s the same law. It’s the same law! English, French… It’s the law of the Charter of the French Language of Quebec!

      Well, anyway, I don’t want to work here, so…

      Delete
  31. FROM ED
    As soon as I see the words UNION AGREEMENT I know who is at the back of it. The store owner cannot fight the unions. The Liberals were in power, they were the government and could not fight the unions. My MPP Henti Gautrin who was Deputy House Leader at the time told me me the unions were all powerful, they could not control them. the woman is probably shit scared. So now she is between public opinion and the union thugs. That girl should educate herself more before she tries to do adult things. She may have put herself in danger if the SJBS or IF take action. Ed

    ReplyDelete