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| vigile.net.... New face/same racism |
I'm not going to re-visit this story, the then editor and chief cook and bottle washer of the website, Bernard Frappier is departed and beating a dead horse serves no purpose.
I wrote these articles a couple of years ago and for those of you relatively new to this website, you can take advantage of the weekend to catch up.
Read:
Is Vigile.net Racist? -Is the Pope Catholic?
Vigile.net and Me
Vigile.net - We Love You!
Sovereignists Flee Vigile.net
After the death of Bernard Frappier, Richard Le Hir, has since become the big kahuna at the website and as such I imagine, along with the editorial board, helps select those reader submissions to be published.
Vigile.net - We Love You!
Sovereignists Flee Vigile.net
After the death of Bernard Frappier, Richard Le Hir, has since become the big kahuna at the website and as such I imagine, along with the editorial board, helps select those reader submissions to be published.
In no way do I assert that Mr. Le Hir necessarily ascribes to the many divergent opinions presented, but the decision as to what to publish remains a collective responsibility by those in charge, one that cannot be shirked.
Now back when the first vigile.net controversy struck, Mr. Le Hir accused enemies of the website of using certain antisemitic remarks published on vigile.net as a smokescreen to diminish whatever prestige and legitimacy the website maintained.
Here's just a small sample of what readers were treated to;
"I'm sure if one of my grand-sons died in Lebanon or Palestine, I would spend the rest of my days trying to blow up every Jew in the world, and even the children of each Jew, so it would make them feel as bad as I." -André Vincent
"...the very history of the Hebrews, the ancestors of the Jews and later the Israelis, is one of massacres, killings, genocide under divine inspiration of their god Yahweh"- Ivan Parent
"...The Anglos are no more at home in Quebec than Jews living in settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip"... - Simon Girard
"When I hear my fellow Quebeckers say they will vote for the ADQ because they want change, I feel like running away to Palestine to become a suicide bomber." Redacted
Mr. Le Hir characterized certain antisemitic remarks made by two specific contributors as nothing more than 'unwise,' in other words a trifle, used by enemies as a battering ram to beat down a legitimate avenue of opinion.
Well, perhaps that is all behind us and I for one was certainly willing to give vigile.net a chance to redeem itself under new management.
Before I continue, let me say that the very large majority of original articles offered by vigile.net are nothing like the above.
In fact most are well-thought out opinion pieces which you may or may not agree with, but are as legitimate as anything you will read in the mainstream press.
In fact most are well-thought out opinion pieces which you may or may not agree with, but are as legitimate as anything you will read in the mainstream press.
Also published are some strident or poorly written diatribes and rants, but almost all, well within the bounds of legitimate free speech and opinion.
Vigile.net remains a website that is run by non-professionals and as such should be given a little latitude. If something is published that perhaps should not have been, a simple acknowledgement of a mistake should suffice.
Unfortunately, that seems not to be the case and one gets the feeling that in fact vigile.net is actually holding back its true sentiments.
Last week, the website published another unfortunate screed, which can only be described as just one more racist rant against immigrants by the indomitable Réjean Labrie, perhaps vigile.net's most prolific xenophobe.
Once more we are treated to an orgy of immigrant-bashing, this time a contention that there is a vast federalist plot to depict Quebec as multicultural, all because of the disproportionate amount of minorities shown on television commercials and advertisements. A distorting mirror: "biased" advertising{fr}
In the article Mr. Labrie is offended by Quebec television being saturated with visible minorities, his first target, an advertisement, that according to the author, features a 'veiled clerk' with an 'unpronounceable name,' presuming to offer advice about art supplies.
By the way, I'm pretty sure the actor wasn't wearing a veil (which covers or obscures the whole face,) but rather, a Hijab an innocuous headscarf which nonetheless I imagine, is as offensive to Mr. Labrie as a kippah or a turban.
By the way, I'm pretty sure the actor wasn't wearing a veil (which covers or obscures the whole face,) but rather, a Hijab an innocuous headscarf which nonetheless I imagine, is as offensive to Mr. Labrie as a kippah or a turban.
In the second example he complains of a commercial that features an African couple (which I imagine again is offensive in and of itself) while the third example is a complaint that gangster movies shown on Quebec television feature too many 'non-white' gangsters, a word he advises readers that he uses to be 'politically correct,' implying obliquely that the criminals are Black.
All this is underscored by a picture of an advertisement that features a Black actor in sunglasses, reinforcing Mr. Labrie's objection to minorities being so prominent in advertising.
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| What is offensive? The fact that the actor is Black or the gaudy sunglasses? |
Mr Labrie's underlying argument;
Sounds like something you're likely to read on an 'Aryan Nation' website!"In any country, in the name of social harmony, there must be only one collective identity to which everyone adheres voluntarily and positively, it is the basis of the concept of nation."
And by the way, how does Mr. Labrie know, without speaking or interacting with the actor above that he isn't part of the 'collective identity.'
Is it because he excludes all Blacks automatically? I'll let readers draw their own conclusion.
He then goes on to tell readers that if minorities are to be depicted in such numbers, then by right, the same should go for mental patients, those in wheelchairs, blind people and stutterers, dwarfs, gays, lesbians and ugly people, etc. etc.
And then this;
"....the purpose of this unhealthy propaganda, this excessive multiculturalism in the media is to reduce the importance of the native population and relegate it to the status of a minority just like the others, which, as we know, is part of their overall plan for our decimation. It is an aberration, as well as the pro-ethnic positive discrimination in hiring, which prioritizes employment to foreigners rather than to us and our own children."Yikes!!
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| credit... antagoniste.com |
Now before I let readers have their two cents in the comments section, I would like to comment on the last paragraph where Mr. Parent actually proposes that in Quebec, foreigners are taking over the jobs rightfully belonging to native born Francophones.
For Mr. Labrie's information, no province does as poorly in assimilating immigrants into the work force as Quebec and the contention that the good jobs are being gobbled up by these 'furiners' would be laughable if not so sad.
So on what basis exactly does vigile.net choose to print this offensive tommyrot?
It is for Mr. Le Hir and his editorial board to answer.
One has to be surprised over the lack of condemnation in the comments section below the story.
With just two supporting comments, either not many people read Mr. Labrie and vigile.net or many agree but are embarrassed to admit it in the open, or the article didn't garner much interest.
Probably it's a combination of all of the above, plus the fact that vigile.net has a reputation for deleting unfavorable comments. ...whatever.
It's too bad nobody made a big deal over the story, because someone should have.
Somebody has to call out vigile.net for publishing something that is so offensive, either for its lack of judgement or its racism.
If such an article appeared in any English website with the readership of vigile.net, all Hell would have broken loose, of that I'm sure.
Few would assert that Mr. Labrie's attitude is representative of mainstream Quebec Francophones, but has language and culture extremism in Quebec led to a spike in intolerance?
That readers is a question for you to discuss in the comments section..
Have a good weekend!
Bonne fin de Semaine!
I got arrested for saying a lot less...it really was a case of speaking while English.
ReplyDeleteWell I just have to ask about that - thank you.
DeleteThat black guy in the ad looks kind of like he's playing the DC Comics villain, Captain Cold, one of the Flash's "rogues".
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI think the guy in the advertisement is supposed to be Inuit. That's why he's wearing a parka and snow goggles, which are for the prevention of snow blindness. They're not sunglasses. I'm not sure if the actual actor in the photo is Inuit himself though.
DeleteLabrie writes: "....the purpose of this unhealthy propaganda, this excessive multiculturalism in the media is to reduce the importance of the native population and relegate it to the status of a minority just like the others, which, as we know, is part of their overall plan for our decimation."
The Inuit may be a minority but they are one of the true native peoples of Quebec. They were here for hundreds of years before any lily white, Roman Catholic, pur laine Francophones arrived.
Let’s see… Quebecers consider themselves worldly (don’t they?), so there must be some sort of explanation for that small-town plouc making such an egregiously racist comment, right?
ReplyDeleteWell no, there isn’t.
There’s no getting around this: It is the expression of a still-underdeveloped, tribal society. Full stop.
Quebec will never truly flourish until separatists manage to finally reconcile themselves with their need to get beyond vengeance for ancient slights. Unfortunately, and drastically, this seems to be asking too much of them since they have shown they don’t want to take the high road and lead by example.
They are stuck believing that Quebec can somehow still be successful while living in a tiny exclusively-French bubble in North America as would be, say, a German or Japanese or Chinese province or state.
Imagine if there were a concentrated region of a few million people living in North America that was Italian or Spanish or Danish (let’s just ignore for a moment that there are actually 10 times more hispanophones than francophones). It would be preposterous for them to choose to isolate themselves in a bubble by making English illegal. Yet, all because France gave up on their colony here centuries ago, this is exactly the shriveled, impoverished world that insecure separatists want us Quebecers to live in.
We are not fooled by them. It’s a sham. And it’s disgraceful.
Everybody else lives in the world of reality and so should separatists. Pride in one’s culture is perfectly fine. Fighting tooth and nail to avoid living in the real world is not.
Since Quebec separatists still haven’t managed to find accommodation with their living situation even after 400 years of co-existence, does that mean they should be looked upon as some sort of example of cultural saviours that all minorities should aspire to?
In the typically eloquent language of our poor super-separatist: “Err”.
The website vigile.net is probably one of many cases the anglos have against intolerance in quebekistan. Obviously contributors of vigile - I can only assume - have a strict and ethnically pure dream of their uber-nation. There is obviously no room for any folks but pure laines. Like a mystical master race: the pure laines. Wearing a tuque, a ceinture flechee and a clay pipe. No room for the english speaking and other non pure laines.
ReplyDeleteI really wonder why this website was never shut down for blatant racism and hatred.
Obviously Ottawa has Z-E-R-O backbone. Ottawa is therefore S-C-A-R-E-D of the backlash from the quebecois. I guess it leaves the anglos and allos of quebec on their own.
I am sad that in this day and age religious based hatred, be it sunni vs shia or muslim vs christian hatred and violence in the middle east or Pakistan or Nigeria or elsewhere. It is pityful that there is also ethnic based hatred and violence in the ex-Yugoslavia, inter-tribal violence in Rwanda, Libya or now Syria, but there is also very much open intolerance between different groups in the RSA black vs whites), Zimbabwe, Afghanistan. Disguised intolerance towards minorities in countries such as Belarus, India, the PRC (against Tibetans)and now -like or not- in Canada, where it so appears and would be confirmed by the enactment of bill 14, in the province (future nation of quebekistan) of quebec.
I'm merely calling a spade a spade.
Moi j'ai rarement vu un raciste être raciste envers sa propre race.
DeleteUn psy,ça presse!
“Moi j'ai rarement vu un raciste être raciste envers sa propre race. Un psy,ça presse!”
DeleteI’ve always maintained that any message delivered on this blog will never be accepted by the seppies and-the-like..and why? Because it is the ‘wrong messenger’ delivering it. But even when the ‘right messenger’ delivers it, (supposedly one of theirs), he’s considered disturbed and requires psychological intervention. Either way, the message is completely dismissed.
One can only conclude that these people cannot be helped or saved. There is no reasoning with them as it is clearly a HUGE waste of time. The realization of this is quite disheartening because it just re-enforces the idea that there is no hope to save this province while they hold the reigns and continue to be conditioned and brainwashed.
Consequently, the Anglos and minorities really need to consider different strategies for ‘managing’ and ‘dealing’ with this deranged bunch while they steer this province away from ruin. This needs to happen quickly.
Yep AnceTOTE - That's what I keep saying. We have to find a democratic way out of this situation for our own salvation and I see no other solution than partition so they get a little area to live in their isolation. Once this concept is out there and our politician(s) (?) provincial and federal support this, we can get underway to promote this solution to all quebecers. Perhaps allocating half of the area to be their new country would be one solution (I know it's not the ideal solution) but we have to find a solution that makes at least most of us happy! If they insist on their own country then let's figure out a way to give them one. I keep saying, it would be so much easier if it were an island like Montreal but that's not feasible so maybe by square miles or something. The whole idea of the provincial borders being inviolate has to be taken off the table once and for all. I'll probably be long dead and gone but I would like to see at least a start of such a movement.
Delete@cutie003
Delete"...we have to find a solution that makes at least most of us happy!"
most of you are already happy cutie003. see page 8: http://tinyurl.com/d2m6z99 .
not so many quebeckers are as mad as you are it seems, mate.
Moi j'ai rarement vu un raciste être raciste envers sa propre race
DeleteLe déclin du catholicisme chez nous a ses raciness dans cette même philosophie que vous faites semblant de méconnaitre et mécomprendre.
On peut affirmer que les prêtres, curés, et évêques qui nous ont gardés, comme peuple, soumis, surféconds et surtout très pauvres font partie de ceux qui ont manifesté leur racisme envers la race canadienne-française. Ce beau monde qui veillaient supposément à nos intérêts n'avaient à coeur que les leurs. Tout comme leurs homologues politiciens séparatistes d'aujourd'hui, d'ailleurs.
Un psy,ça presse!
Chez les séparatistes, surtout!
@apparatchik
Deletewhy would quebec separatists need psychological treatment? what's wrong with hoping for political control over your nation's destiny? are separatist tibetans, scots, slovenians, irish and lithuanians similarly crazy in your humble opinion?
why would quebec separatists need psychological treatment?
DeleteFor several reasons, in my judgment, most of them having to do with the arguments they invoke to support their "grand projet" as well as the underlying resentments that inform most of those arguments. It's too bad that that site where they listed the 1001 reasons why Quebec ought to become a country isn't up anymore because I would have redirected you to it for the sake of general reference.
Anyway, as an reader unconvinced of either the necessity or the desirability of their objective, I found rather telling the tendency toward repetition/redundancy of many of the points listed listed on that list. And I found the impassioned haste with which they seem to demand much of their claims come to fruition to be much ado about nothing.
what's wrong with hoping for political control over your nation's destiny?
As I've stated here previously, I don't really endorse the notion of the nation-state -- not just here at home, but everywhere in the world.
When I consider not just its origins but also the kitschy patriotism and blind reverence that it both attracts and demands as a whole, I appreciate Einstein's comment about nationalism being an infantile disease. This idea that every ethnicity should have its own state, calqued from vain European 19th-century delusions of grandeur, are, I believe, dépassé. I dislike borders and I view their very existence today as epitomizing all at once man's madness, narcissism, and whimsy. When I look at a man-made map with borders drawn on it, I don't see a neat order of thriving groups; I think with disgust of the corpses of the millions of people through time who died in order to make that map look that way and wonder with disbelief at the arbitrary nature of the things and behaviors we accept as "civilized".
Suffice to say, I see borders as an important source of conflict. If I think about it, the expression "good fences make good neighbors" isn't really about privacy but rather an endorsement of the distrust and petty individualism that inhabits all of us.
Man as a species could and should aim higher, I think. Our commonality and humanity reside in what are really shared hopes and aspirations. It is only through fulfillment of our human aspirations -- and not those in the service of a jealous nation-state -- that we will further the cause of our personal and common civilization as a whole.
(1)
It is ridiculous to think that I ought to have more in common with an artist in Chicoutimi than one in Kirkland, Hudson, or Vancouver because the former speaks French and all the others English. Likewise, I find it ludicrous to claim that I should feel a more natural kinship with the construction worker from Kamloops than the imported Indian laborer working in Dubai.
DeleteTribalism was a necessary means by which hunter-gatherer societies could thrive. Nationalism, as the the modern-day embodiment of tribalism, purports in turn to give its members the means by which to thrive, realizing the full range of human aspirations I mentioned above. In practice, however, and especially in our more interconnected modern world, this message rings increasingly hollow to me. Nationalism and most of its instruments limit humans' worldview, locking them -- millions at a time -- into a way of thinking, speaking, recollecting, behaving, and interacting with others that in reality are about serving the various (and often nebulous) needs of the "nation" itself. Indeed, such territorial and intellectual cloistering might have been a good way to survive in the wilderness, but with several billion people increasingly integrated through capitalism (another system with its own set of relative benefits and cancers), the notion of tying oneself inextricably to one's "nation's destiny" rings ever more hollow.
Also, in light of my discussion above, there's the cynical part of me that believes that the very idea of desiring "political control over your nation's destiny" is the hollow stuff of vain romantic literature. I'm not the one at the helm, and a good portion of the time, the people who get elected aren't even the ones I voted for... so what makes me so sure that the people I've been programmed and conditioned to identify with first and foremost are the ones who will really do what's best for me? Wanting to see my own kind at the helm for the sake of seeing my own kind at the helm is the very measles of mankind that Einstein refers to.
are separatist tibetans, scots, slovenians, irish and lithuanians similarly crazy in your humble opinion?
Absolutely. My dislike of separatist movements and independence agitations is nearly absolute. The only potential exceptional cases I could imagine endorsing are those circumstances in which the immediate safety of the entire group in question is demonstrably threatened.
Otherwise, demanding an end to discrimination and forcing multiple "nationalities" to work together is the sort of tough love I think is called for. Because like it or not, neighbors will ultimately have to work with neighbors, and better progress at moving on can be made (and sooner) rather than pick the same scab over and over and over again. And no, assimilation doesn't particularly scare me (anymore), since all humans are the product of millennia of assimilation. Perpetual and unquestioning loyalty to a nation is again a 19th century construct that I just don't buy. If my great great grandchildren speak Kazakh and not a word of English, that's fine with me; I'll have lived my life and will be long dead. I don't need to telegraph to my descendents how to live or tell them what religion to follow from beyond the grave, especially if they accept to do so of their own free will. It'd be nice if they remembered a thing or two about where they came from, since he who forgets his past is bound to repeat it and all. But living in fear of being something (too) different from one's ancestors is in my book akin to idolizing one's ancestors. And while I greatly respect my fascinatingly diverse family tree, ancestor worship isn't part of my value system.
(2)
Also my comment to Sébastien had everything to do with his earlier comment about self-directed racism. Just as today it is expressed through the National Assembly, French-Canadian nationalism was for centuries expressed -- and directed -- in large part by and through the Church. That institution (much like its modern-day counterpart) had a vested interest in keeping its adherents servile and captive, all while claiming to "protect" us from the evils of "the other". The damaged race of wretches that such a setup spawned and left behind (my own self included, by the way) lives on to this day. And its echoes are clearly audible each time another measure designed to "save" our souls from the "temptations" of "wandering astray".
DeleteI don't need to write a blank check to give anybody that kind of control. I can barely tolerate the clowns in Ottawa they share power with, so it shouldn't be hard to imagine how idiotic I think it is to hand the entire set of keys to the buffoons in Quebec City.
This, student, is what informs my overall train of thought on the matter. Keeping your own race under thumb just to maintain power for your own institution's bloated and selfish ends sickens me to the nth degree. For all our "je me souviens" rhetoric, we seem to forget much of our own history's important parts. But that's okay; the army of historians we have on-hand will expertly reinterpret the parts of our history we've forgotten, and those in their number devout enough to do double-duty for la grande cause will aptly remind us who our "true" enemies are, lest we forget or lest too many of us start wondering whether history might actually be rhyming with itself. And while we're doing all this "remembering", why not casually rewrite the textbooks with a vision of history more sympathetic to the cause and calculated to elicit additional electoral support for it?
I suspect my disgust is merely a biological reflex to the bullshit I'm being served.
(3/3)
@apartachick
Deleteseparatists need psycho treatment because a list of 1001 reasons to separate was redundant?!? by jove that is weak, mate.
The redundancy is the tip of the iceberg, nine tenths of which is underwater and whose underlying structure is replete with re-hashes of past slights -- now largely resolved -- used in support of the stated political objective. But that's not the crux of my point.
DeleteThe separatist strategy deliberately perpetuates population-cloistering mechanisms on French-Canadians in Quebec parallel to those that our mother Church used. The separatists too blind to see that our language legislation is built to ensure French-Canadians' linguistic captivity (irrespective of whether each francophone might actually want that for himself) certainly do need to have their head examined, in my judgment.
And I agree, their very weak arguments certainly do ring hollow.
By the way, you should read my entire post next time and try to interpret my statements holistically, rather than pick one sentence fragment and craft a poorly-constructed straw man around it. Despite whatever separatist leanings you might genuinely hold, your motivations become transparent when you adopt the falsely naive response pseudo-strategy you've become known for, and only cement your position as the blog dunce.
@Editor: your comments and reflections on this participatory tendency, as well as the manifestly disingenuous British verbal ticks associated with it, would be interesting to have on record.
@apartachick
Delete"And I agree, their very weak arguments certainly do ring hollow."
i never wrote their arguments rang hollow. you never even stated what arguments you're going against here! i'll wait until you actually pull out some before i pick a stance, and therefore before you can agree with me or not.
"...and craft a poorly-constructed straw man around it."
go read your own comment at 8:59:00, mate. to answer my question about a separatist's sanity you come up with a non-existing 1001 items list that was redundant. that's it. if it's a straw man you put it up yourself, mate. i'm sure you'll understand i could only mock you at this point because the meat only appeared in your latest craft: in your humble opinion separatists are crazy because they don't see that bill 101 was built to keep them linguistically captive.
well, now that you provided a worthy response i can give my opinion: i think you are big time wrong, mate. as french canadians are way more bilingual than in 1977 and many separatists are, and have been, totally fluent in english. think levesques, bouchard, s.r, aussant, parizeau, lisée, landry, duceppe, josée legault, boisclair, etc. the list is endless. knowing english doesn't turn a separatist into a canada lover.
no, bill 101 was built to ensure french canadians can keep feeling at home in their own country, be it canada or quebec. not for the next ten years, but forever. use this as a premise from now on aparatchik.
"I don't need to write a blank check to give anybody that kind of control. I can barely tolerate the clowns in Ottawa they share power with, so it shouldn't be hard to imagine how idiotic I think it is to hand the entire set of keys to the buffoons in Quebec City."
DeletePriceless !!!!
AnecTOTE: Nothing ever disappears from the internet. They were up to almost 3000 reasons when the site went down.
Deletehttp://web.archive.org/web/20120912001249/http://www.coalitionsouverainiste.com/1001raisons.aspx
D'oh. The link was for Apparatchik.
DeleteNothing ever disappears from the internet.
DeleteThanks CIQ, I just got tired waiting for the archive to fetch all the data earlier. It seems to be loading much more quickly now.
i never wrote their arguments rang hollow. you never even stated what arguments you're going against here! i'll wait until you actually pull out some before i pick a stance, and therefore before you can agree with me or not.
DeleteOy vey.. honey the buses don't go where you live, do they?
go read your own comment at 8:59:00, mate. to answer my question about a separatist's sanity you come up with a non-existing 1001 items list that was redundant.
My brief exchange with ConfusedInQuebec was helpful in this regard. See the archived list discussed with him.
if it's a straw man you put it up yourself, mate.
It never ceases to amaze me how you can zero in on a point you willfully misunderstand and then lose focus on the message as a whole.
S.R brought up how racists are seldom racist against their own race. And I have demonstrably likened the behavior of power-hungry franco-supremacists (which I liken to racists) as behaving in a racist manner (which I point to our over-reaching language legislation) against their own race (comparatively apolitical French-Canadians). S.R also sarcastically quipped that a shrink was called for, pronto, a measure I not-too-sarcastically I agree with, considering what I have written about yesterday and today concerning what I happen to think is an unhealthy fixation on the part of certain political groups on language.
i'm sure you'll understand i could only mock you at this point because the meat only appeared in your latest craft: in your humble opinion separatists are crazy because they don't see that bill 101 was built to keep them linguistically captive.
I'm not sure whether you claim to be mocking me for introducing another opinion I have or because I tied it into my earlier comment. Either way, I'd have to care.
french canadians are way more bilingual than in 1977
The trend toward bilingualism in Quebec is perhaps encouraging, especially amongst those aged 20-40. The latest numbers confirm this too. Also interesting is the comparative statistical differences in proportion between the allegedly arrogant anglos, dangerous/threatening (if they go English!) immigrants, and francophones.
many separatists are, and have been, totally fluent in english. think levesques, bouchard, s.r, aussant, parizeau, lisée, landry, duceppe, josée legault, boisclair, etc. the list is endless.
Delete... you forgot such eminent luminaries as Pauline Marois Diane De Courcy.
knowing english doesn't turn a separatist into a canada lover.
...not anymore than knowing French turns an allophone into a Quebec lover. Yet now the separatists seek to up the ante, deliberately leveraging provincial jurisdiction in matters of education to indoctrinate impressionable students into their cause, rather than just teaching the story and letting students take it from there.
bill 101 was built to ensure french canadians can keep feeling at home in their own country, be it canada or quebec.
Just as after World War II suburbs were built by White people to keep feeling at home as they were fleeing diversity in city centers. But like it or not, the social problems engendered by collectively closing their eyes to their cities' inner cores came back to haunt them in subsequent decades. This highly capricious and arbitrary notion of "feeling at home in ____ " is frequently used to individualistic effect (see my earlier comment about "good fences make good neighbors"). The initial discomfort felt when meeting a newcomer pales in comparison with the problems that occur when both the existing party and newcomer fail to properly understand and integrate with one another. That's why I strongly advocate that we proudly affirm the multi-cultural, multi-lingual, and demand an officially bilingual character for Montreal. Those of us who are well-integrated happily and naturally frequent institutions of all communities and pass from one culture and language to the other within the same sentence. This is achievable without legislatively neutering English in Montreal, so I reject your assertion.
Also, French-Canadians have a country, just like all Canadians. It is called Canada. This is not a subjective matter or prone to emotional debate. And if pure-laine French-Canadians can agitate for a place in the sun that is in their image, so too can the growing numbers of young, cosmopolitan, mixed-background people like me who have no problem reconciling my shared heritage -- and do so fluently in both official languages and a handful more. Maybe WE (and not the Mario Beaulieus out there) are the example to follow.
use this as a premise from now on aparatchik.
In the same spirit, I invite you to use my last paragraph as a premise to guide your studies and transformative evolution in this field from now on.
Apparatchik, you're on fire today. Very enjoyable to read.
DeleteFinal score: Apparatchik 10, Student 0
Yep...pinstripes got the Mother of all beatings today!!! ...The popcorn was delish too !!!
DeleteEvery time I read it, it makes my blood boil:
ReplyDeleteLes milieux d'affaires contestent les nouvelles contraintes qu'on leur propose. Ils s'inquiètent plus pour leur compétitivité que pour le français, qui serait bien protégé selon eux par «l'équilibre» actuel.
La Fédération canadienne de l'entreprise indépendante (FCEI) s'objecte à ce qu'on oblige les petites entreprises à implanter des mesures de francisation. Elles craignent le pouvoir d'enquête et de saisie qu'on octroierait à l'Office québécois de la langue française. Même constat du Conseil québécois du commerce et du détail. La chambre de commerce de Montréal métropolitain estime quant à elle que la nouvelle loi pourrait «restreindre le bassin de main-d'oeuvre potentiel».
Le bilinguisme au travail ne les inquiète pas. Même s'il progresse, cela ne signifie pas que le français recule, croit la FCEI.
***************
The right of the OQLF to stroll into your place of business...
...the place you took a financial risk building, put yourself through stress to build and now use to pay taxes and supply jobs to the economy and some go-nowhere-in-life parasite with no ambition can walk in and "confiscate" your property?
Uh, no.
Check this shit out: If anyone from the OQLF is reading this...once my present business takes more shape and I eventually open a space, I will run as I see fit, because IT"S MY PROPERTY, and I vow that if any officers of the OQLF show up on the premises, they will be physically removed from the premises.
I'll be sure to record the whole thing while it happens and gladly send it to the media myself.
"I'll be sure to record the whole thing while it happens"
DeleteQuand vous recevez une contravention de la part d'un policier,est-ce que vous filmez la scène?
Personne n'est intéressé par votre petite "propriété".De plus,une voie de fait sur un représentant de l'État peut vous coûter très cher M.Résidu.
R.E.: Next year marks a century my maternal grandfather landed in Canada and in Sherbrooke at first. He was probably forced off his land. If you've never seen the movie Fiddler on the Roof, watch it the next time it comes on the AMC movie channel (if you get it). They repeat the same movies every few weeks so you should be able to catch it, or I'm sure it's easy to rent or watch off the net.
DeleteMy ancestors in Russia had property confiscated for no reason, was ransacked by pogroms and a variety of other atrocities by order of the Czar and others. Move forward a century and in some parts of the world, absolutely nothing has changed.
What sickens me here is that Quebec is devolving into raw sewage. I make ZERO apologies for comparing what's going on here to Nazism because, let's face it, Quebec is heading right down that path.
The simple fact a government would come up with the likes of Bill 14 proves it whether the legislation passes or is defeated. Those who contribute to vigile, or at least the one being exposed here, prove there is an evil sickness at the core of some of this society's being, and legislation the likes of which is being tabled as I write is unequivocal proof thereof.
The Germans justifiably took the beating they deserved in WWI and thrust upon them was the Treaty of Versailles, a punishment so great they felt compelled to find a means for the crime to fit the punishment. They turned inward and found scapegoats in those who were not of their Aryan ilk. The result was WWII, an even greater atrocity, if that's possible.
Like in Quebec, it started with hateful communiqués, fuelled the election of the Nazis, and then their legislation, policies to weed out their internal enemy, and then physical implementation against those who were not of their ilk. Quebec is heading right down that path. They're not there yet, but perhaps, and hopefully something will come along to intercept the evil incarnate making up the body of this government, but it hasn't happened yet. There is a lot of complacency in Quebec society that seems to accept, if not condone all this. The fact there is a market for this pestilence is sufficient proof Quebec just may be heading down this path of depraved indifference.
The very idea this pernicious lot was elected is why I've grown indifferent to Quebec's future, and I'm not against its being out of the real Canada. Quebec doesn't deserve to be a part of a pluralistic, inclusive Canada.
Sorry Mr. Sauga but you are linking us to the separatists and we are not nor ever will be a part and parcel of their narrow-thinking group. At least 70% of the population (at the present time anyway) are not separatists - what about us? Are you advocating that we all be kicked out of Canada? I truly hope that is not you're thinking because we do not deserve that - we are here fighting to remain a part of Canada and our rights to remain a part of Canada is what has to be considered here.
Delete@Editor, I beg your indulgence, I brought over this post to respond to R.S.
Delete@R.S.
“Are you saying that the silent majority is seditious or that it openly promotes hatred?”
What I’m saying is that I don’t see the ‘silent majority’ denouncing this project (bill 14) or the abomination of this project in any way so far. One can ascertain that such ‘non-action’ displays an overt complicity; after all, Silence=Approval, n’est ce pas?
What we fail to understand is that when we do not openly denounce racism and/or discrimination in any form, we become party to it and It reflects as a whole on our society. Bill 14 is an explicit endeavour in xenophobia it is less about protecting the French Language and more about sticking it to Anglos and minorities once again. Not one line, not one clause of that hateful document is acceptable, simply because of the malicious intent it disguises.
Those who do not openly speak out to nullify it completely, are party to its infamy.
To quote Mr. Sauga, who sums it up wonderfully well here describing Nazism:
"Like in Quebec, it started with hateful communiqués, fuelled the election of the Nazis, and then their legislation, policies to weed out their internal enemy, and then physical implementation against those who were not of their ilk. Quebec is heading right down that path. They're not there yet, but perhaps, and hopefully something will come along to intercept the evil incarnate making up the body of this government, but it hasn't happened yet. There is a lot of complacency in Quebec society that seems to accept, if not condone all this. The fact there is a market for this pestilence is sufficient proof Quebec just may be heading down this path of depraved indifference."
Quebec is a second SS state in the making, it is not an exaggeration, it is simply the truth.
@anectote
Delete"Quebec is a second SS state in the making, it is not an exaggeration, it is simply the truth."
oh darn! you were almost there. you just picked the wrong one. "exaggeration" was the correct answer. sorry, mate.
Cutie: As a loyal reader of and contributor to this blog, I thought you of all people knew me better than that. While on the one hand I don't wish my minority expatriates any harm, I am on the other hand disillusioned with the complacency of the minorities for far too long, and the way the only dedicated activist in that time, Howard Galganov, was unexpectedly admonished, berated and chastised by the English media, with no support from the readers and listeners of that same media.
DeleteI reckeoned what started in 1974 would manifest into what is happening right now, but I though it would have happened sooner rather than now. Thinking language legislation was some sort of rant or passing fad is not that at all. There is a collective evil incarnate within consisting of the likes of Mario Beaulieu and the others that have been mentioned many, many times in this blog and elsewhere. This is intergenerational or adopted by freaks of nature like the Khadir family. It will never go away. It will continue to ebb and tide like it has for the past 40 years. I'm fed up with it.
It is you carrying the partition banner higher than any other contributors, so why don't you continue to promote partition now and disassociate yourselves from the evil incarnate?
I do and will continue to do so Mr. Sauga: I would like nothing better than to partition this place right now and get rid of those areas that want to leave our country. I am sincerely hoping that the Equality Party 2.0 will have this as part of their platform. Areas like the Outaouais, the Pontiac and Montreal should join together and vote to remain within Canada. I've been saying the same thing since I started contributing to this blog and I will never change my mind as long as this evil lives within our earshot and sight. Sick to death of them and even if I moved, I would still be advocating partition of this province. I can see no other solution to the problems that lie here than that.
DeleteRight again AnceTOTE: People are speaking out against Bill 14 by joining groups and such but there has to be more light shed on this disgusting piece of legislation to the whole wide free world. I find that people are indifferent much more than they should be simply because they pay no attention and figure that the province will continue on as it is without difficulty. I too wish more people would be more vocal about the disaster we are facing in this country. Our political leaders are also too indifferent but have to presume that there is much more going on behind closed doors than we are aware.
Delete@cutie003
Delete"...there is much more going on behind closed doors than we are aware."
i agree with you here, mate. you don't seem very aware.
What are these bigots really up to?
ReplyDeleteHow about a few quotes from these bigots , here you go.
.” ….Given these facts, should French-speaking people concentrate their efforts on Quebec or take the whole of Canada as their base? In my opinion, they should do both; and for the purpose they could find no better instrument than federalism”, Pierre Trudeau,.
"There is no way two ethnic groups in one country can be made equal before the law....and to say it is possible is to sow the seeds of destruction”. Pierre Trudeau,
"I cannot swear it but I think we were thinking to ourselves,... we are a small group, Trudeau, Pelletier, Marchand, Lalonde, Chrétien, myself and a few people in the civil service, say 50 all told…we were bringing off a revolution. We held the key posts. We were making the civil service bilingual (French), kicking and screaming all the time". Jean-Luc Pepin, Minister of Industry, 1970.
So while Quebec bans the English language (bill 22, bill 178, bill 101…), wipes out its real BNA, UEL history, while ethnic language cleansing is going on in Quebec, the rest of the country is forced to fund whatever the French (metis) demand. This is going on in every province. Go check.
“First Quebec, then we take over the rest of the country, one step at a time…through bilingualism…” PT, “How to take over a country through bilingualism…” SD. How ? First comes the right to communicate with gov't in a minority language (ie French),then comes bilingualism, then comes the right to work in the language of choice(ie French), then comes a bilingual boss,(ie French) then comes a exclusively French department and on it goes until its all French. Its happening all over the country, Ontario, New Brunswick…That’s what’s really going on.
“My roll as Secretary of State of Canada is first and foremost to ensure that my French compatriots in Canada feel with deep conviction, as I do, that this is their country and that it reflects their image”. “I too had some difficult years as a politician; I’m still having them, in fact, because everything we undertake and everything we are doing to make Canada a French state is part of a venture I have shared for many years with a number of people”. “You know the idea, the challenge, the ambition of making Canada a French country both inside and outside Quebec — an idea some people consider a bit crazy, is something a little beyond the ordinary imagination”. – Serge Joyal, Secretary of State – Page 2 ‘ENOUGH’ by J.V. Andrew. – Serge Joyal – Now in the Senate.
"The Canadian government is engaged in a task of spreading the French
language across the length and breadth of the country". Jules Leger,
l968
How much more proof do you need? Open your eyes folks, its happening all over the country.
""There is no way two ethnic groups in one country can be made equal before the law....and to say it is possible is to sow the seeds of destruction”. Pierre Trudeau,""
DeleteWhat rubbish.
Partisan ideas spun as middle ground with the press lapping it up.
It's too bad that about 235 of the Google hits containing that quote come from the same poster having copy-pasted, as is his custom, the same shit on multiple web sites, and that many of the remaining 84 hits either bear his writing style under a different pseudonym, and a handful of other users variously quoting the statement for their own purposes.
DeleteThe earliest presence of this apparently 1966 quote (apparently made three years before the Official Languages Act was passed by the Federal government) stems from a 1991 talk on the topic of Ontario in Confederation.
It would be most instructive if we could get a precise contextual reference in which this quote was made.
I own a small company here in Québec and I make sure we offer both English & French to all my clients. About 6 months ago, an OQLF inspector came into the office building where I have my office to take try and take photos of signs that another small company had put up. The signs were in unilingual English and when one of my employees heard what was going on, he got up and stood in front of the signs to block the inspector from taking a picture. When he said he was from the OQLF, my employee said "I know who you are and you are a racist anti-English thug. Get out of here now." My employee then took pictures of this inspector and followed him out to his car and continued to take pictures of him as well as his car and license plate. The inspector told my employee that he wasn't allowed to take his picture and my employee told him "Screw you - sue me !!"
ReplyDeleteAlthough I personally wouldn't have taken this same approach unless the inspector was taking pictures of MY signs (as they are completely bilingual and both English & French are equal size lettering) or demanded that I make French predominant, I support my employee 100% for standing up for the other company's right to advertise in the language they want. As a business owner, I made it MY decision to advertise in both languages not out of respect or because of any law but because I want to attract as many clients as possible whether they are French or English. I do not treat either more special simply because of the language they speak. I would never demand that any of my clients address us in only French (because we are in Québec) and I would fire any employee who ever demanded that a customer address them in only one language, be it English or French!!
The Quebec Govt has given French people the right to impose their personal preference of French language on customers, employers or clients/patients and for me that was and is a recipe for disaster. It should NEVER be an employee's right to impose a language preference. It is also a recipe for disaster to allow an employee to dictate the language in which his employer must address him in. You can be damn sure someone who has spent thousands of $$$$ to open their company, spent countless hours building it up and spent countless hours dealing with everyday business operations will not want to tolerate such an employee's request. I know I would fire any employee who demanded anything like that from a client or from me.
All Quebec Govts have incorrectly given French people the power to demand people address them in French just because they are French and because the Québec Govt declared itself a unilingual French province. What people don't realize is just because a Govt declares that IT IS UNILINGUAL, OR BILINGUAL OR WHATEVER, it doesn't mean it's the ONLY language you have to speak or work in. Can you imagine a world where everyone demanded people address them in only their language otherwise you'll be sued if you refuse?
@Mike - please give that employee a raise and a nice cold Fin Du Monde.
DeleteI really love how the inspector got frazzled at having his picture taken - I guess you encountered S.R in person then. He doesn't take too well to swallowing his own medicine either.
Personally, I see OQLF as sub-human. What kind of a person are you to "earn" a living by trying to make life hard for the people of this society who contribute the most. Talk about having a baby-dick complex.
Even worse are the self-appointed OQLF police...those tiny-minded citizens who aren't even getting paid. Here's an example I heard about a couple of years ago:
I imagine a few of us on this site have pets and love them, right?
Well some Anglo on the plateau lost his cat and put up LOST signs around the plateau...in English.
Well, turns out some little seppie bitch didn't approve and scratched out the phone number on all the posters, preventing this guy from getting his cat back.
Now you tell me how we're supposed to deal with that kind of two-cent mentality.
If you ever need to lay this employee off let us know.
DeleteOne person like is worth more then 50 tribal seppies.
All people want is to be left alone by the govt to live their lives in peace. Stop harassing the population. It's petty, mean, illegal and immoral.
People should harass OLQF inspector to the absolute maximum. If you meet one socially don;t be afraid to rant at them. They come into your lace of business/home/school when you are "off duty". When you are like SR and student, you are always "on duty" to hate.
Block their cars, force the police to be called. Don;t let language crazies hide this in the shadows.
Their bigoted views only survive "conferences and negotiation". None of this crap would last if people spent the $ over and over to drag it all the way to the supreme court for every little violation.
Re-living battles from people hundreds of years ago and pretending to take offence abotu one thing or another.
That's what we call a tribe. They have no real connection to the events hundreds of years ago except for the rationalization they create. It's totally irrelevant to their lives now.
Middle east tribal thinking.
If they really want to play the "what happened 200 years ago", lets revisit who won the fucking war back then.
The "winners" were "nice people" to the losers unlike the current PQ of today. they decided to let the population continue to go on. Now hundreds of years later they pretend the issue still isn;t settled.
You fucking lost. Individual rights won out over socialist dogma from the French church.
Resident Evil,
DeleteRegarding the cat story, check this picture from Imperatif-francais. The flyer is admonished for being in English only, without any regards of what the content is. Please read the content.
Jesus Christ!
DeleteI mean honestly - just how fucking low can you go?
And yet they expect us to open dialogue them.
I have to wonder if these little dickheads get a reward from the government (our tax money) to snitch on people - I hope that poor guy got his cat back in the end. SOB - how would they like it if we did that to them? Pricks!
DeleteMy answer in pictures:
Deletehttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TqD4QzauBz0/UWOJIlDVtII/AAAAAAAAENI/kIK9mGMmfuw/s1600/dhs9.jpg
http://sintagma.no.sapo.pt/images/Alejuve5.jpg
Now, we'll get a few people reacted in agitated manner to those pictures, but before
you go on about how it's over the top, be sure to visit these links I posted the other day:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-race_effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehumanization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalism#Ultranationalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalism#National_purity
R.S. already nailed down several stark comparisons.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TqD4QzauBz0/UWOJIlDVtII/AAAAAAAAENI/kIK9mGMmfuw/s1600/dhs9.jpg
DeleteYou can see the bright red square on the chest of every one!
Speaking of the OQLF, lol. Yesterday while I was driving home a bus pulled up beside me with a big huge advertisement for 'CKOI', caption: “Mes hits, mon fun”.
DeleteLast time I checked the words “hits” and “fun” are English words correct? Thing is, they were the exact same size as the French words. I wonder what the Pasta Chasers would think about a French radio station advertising English words that are not smaller in size than the French ones.
Perhaps we should call it in and see if the Pasta Chases hunt down a popular French Language radio station for Language infractions….mmmm…LOL
@anectote
Delete"...we should call it in and see if the Pasta Chases hunt down a popular French Language radio station for Language infractions..."
be my guest, mate.
Hey Pinstripes...I dare you to do it !
Delete"La plainte doit être faite par écrit sur le formulaire prévu à cette fin. Transmis par la poste ou par télécopieur, le formulaire doit porter la signature de la personne qui porte plainte. Par contre, s'il est acheminé par courrier électronique, la signature n'est pas obligatoire."
DeleteThat's work.
Now, that also tells me that all those losers who do go that trouble, really have fuck-all going on in their lives.
@anectote
Deletewhy do you call me pinstripes? is it humour?
@AnecTOTE - hehehe!
DeleteYou just proved that seppies really are the result of being so insular.
Didn't you love how he had no idea what a circle jerk was?
If they really want to play the "what happened 200 years ago", lets revisit who won the fucking war back then.
Delete+1
Bilingual Montreal. Without hesitation and without reluctance.
@resident evil
Deletenot being familiar with circlejerking is a proof of insularity? dude this must be the most paradoxal thought of the day. yet. i trust you can supply some more. please write something.
Let's hope to God that these idiots get kicked out of office before any more damage can come from Bill 14! Mr. Legault?
ReplyDeletehttp://communiques.gouv.qc.ca/gouvqc/communiques/GPQF/Avril2013/18/c6726.html
The seppie intelligentsia is really banking on the CAQ's support too.
DeleteBe sure to check out all the comments too. Very telling. And proof positive that it's less about language and more about the separatists' childish and narcissistic desire to secure the survival of their movement by inserting measures they could later bank on -- polemically of course.
@aparachik
Deletedude i read the comments and i didn't see many that "prove" bill 14 contains "measures they (separatists) could later bank on polemically of course". can you copy a few here?
Reading is evidently not your strong suit.
DeleteConsider the following:
- The Canadian military as a vehicle for assimilation -- even when parents choose to send their kids to English schools themselves (Gilles Théberge, Claude Smith, Charles Michel de l'Épée, et al.)
- The Liberal Party of Quebec hasn't been a Quebecers' party since Bourassa left, and Legault needs to prove to us that he isn't just an opportunist (Jean Martinez)
- PLQ/CAQ are "anti-francisation" parties (Georges Hubert)
- Not allowing certain categories of citizens rights that ordinary citizens don't (sic!!!) (Georges Hubert)
- Charest didn't give a fuck about French and the Liberals' position on bill 14 proves it definitively (Franklin Bernard)
- We'll be submerged in short order if we let down our guard, now isn't the time to compromise (Clement Bernard)
- The CAQ is finished if it votes against the (Gilles Bousquet)
- We tried to incentivize the anglos to learn French until the '70s but that didn't work; if they aren't compelled to display in French/respect French as language of work, they'll NEVER do it (François Gervais) -- note: I take particular exception to the dishonesty with this one since my own immigrant ancestors were denied enrollment in their local French school and were told to register at the English school down the street. Their story was far from unique for that era.
- "Bill 14 makes me proud to be a francophone again. I'm obligated to leave the larger towns to work because I don't want to work in English. How far will we let ourselves be pushed by them? Francophones used to make up a large part of North America before. We need to stop and refuse to be thrown onto stretchers and avoid ending up like the Natives." (Francois Parent)
- French is at risk in the metropolis, demographers agree the trend is real. Now is the time to act, not unacceptably compromise our language and culture. De Courcy is able to justify each of the provisions in the bill. (Claude Lafontaine)
Now in addition to the largely fachophone participation in the Devoir's comment section, how about I list for you a few "polemicable" examples from the law itself:
- introducing "communautés culturelles" -- a legally ambiguous phrase -- to replace "minorités ethniques", which has widespread and understood legislative and juridical meanings. "What protections? That's not an ethnic minority according to the law! Fuck them! French is the only official language"
- "valeurs de la société québécoise" -- another deliberately ambiguous and amorphous notion, which can and to which will certainly be ascribed overtones favorable to any separatist cultural agenda imaginable. Consider the horrors perpetrated by our fellow American self-styled "patriots" with the word "un-American" and you just might see where I'm coming from.
- "droit de vivre, travailler et apprendre en français" -- I understand that bill 101 was an "affirmative action"-like piece of legislation designed to elevate les nègres blancs de l'Amérique from being proverbial cotton pickers to actual owners of the plantation, but ascribing a fundamental status to this particular "droit", both in general but especially in the context of a charter that spells out civil liberties and an active independence movement built ostensibly around language, is dangerous pandering. Especially because it doesn't delineate where one person's right to live/work/learn in French ends and another's right not to (if such a right even exists) begins.
There are more, and our provincial Bar -- not an outwardly partisan body by a long shot -- hasn't hesitated to enumerate them all for Diane De Courcy, whose job will now be to calculatingly maximize the impact of her own party's handiwork (or lack thereof).
DeleteI invite you to read the statement in its entirety, and for each item enumerated there, try to imagine a trial making its way to the Supreme Court, who will strike down the associated provisions of the Law. And for each one of those items, try to imagine one of the Vigile authors penning a polemical piece -- or a separatist speechwriter or politician -- about yet another round of "charcutage" carried out by the Court, which of course will require invoking how, like the leaning tower of Pisa, the court always tilts in the same (supposedly federalist) direction.
Before he was known as S.R, our other resident troll went by the handle "Press 9", in a nod to the language supremacists being in a tizzy about how certain Quebec government agencies allowed you to press 9 for service in English when you telephone them. This proved polemical for the usual separatist suspects because it apparently gave the impression that Quebec is bilingual -- the horror! If bill 14 imposes French as the sole language of public administration, without clear delineation for exceptions (see the press release), and that provision is later struck down, you can imagine the hay the seppies will make.
Health and social services -- yet another war horse of the separatist pressure groups -- is another topic of concern. With their rabid hatred of the mere existence of the MUHC, it doesn't take much to think how angry the same groups will be once they learn that such English-language hospitals can maintain an anglophone patient's file in English. Better yet, if that information is shared with an employee at a francophone institution who decides to whine about his/her right to live/work in french, then the same groups can frame it as a gross attack on the worker's civil liberty -- all while a patient's life hangs in the balance.
Finally, the requirements that toughen language requirements for members of professional orders -- many of which already have French skills requirements built into their individual requirements -- could otherwise be recycled quite easily by angry militants who famously love to whine about evil "foreigners" belonging to analogous professional orders in Canada coming to take "our" jobs away.
Are you proud of De Courcy's -- and the current PQ government's handiwork, student? What thoughts does this elicit on your end?
@Apparatchik
Delete"Are you proud of De Courcy's -- and the current PQ government's handiwork, student? What thoughts does this elicit on your end?"
What an interesting question, but I'll bet you the 'overzealousness' of a Pasta Chaser (LOLOLOL) that he'll come up with some lame response to defend or justify his precious PQ somehow, even with the overwhelmingly well thought-out argument you presented, he won't be able to help himself. It is a lot like the woman who is violently abused both physically and psychologically by her husband and yet when presented with the irrefutable facts of that abuse, all she can say is "But I love him". The brainwashed behave the same way. They can't think for themselves nor can they see the forest for the trees.
No doubt “sudtnet” (funny how he suddenly can’t spell names) will be unable to provide a well-thought-out rebuttal worthy of Apparatchik.
DeleteLet’s see him try to pluck one sentence out and reply to it, just like he did above. Can’t wait to see what pablum he’ll come up with this time!
@apartachik
Deletedude all ledevoir quotes you posted are very supportive of bill 14. but none of them proves it contains "measures they (separatists) could later bank on polemically of course". just legitimate political and cultural concerns from my point of view.
the cultural communities in lieu of ethnic communities. i understand your concern. the pq must have given a reason to justify this bit. what is it?
les valeurs de la société québécoise. i'm not outraged at all. i'm confident quebeckers will be fine with whatever these end up being: democracy, equality, etc. inclusive stuff don't worry.
le droit de vivre, travailler, apprendre en français. seems fair to me. of course court cases will pop up where particular situations will have to be debated and settled. i'm also fine with this.
your whole outrage is based on your indifference to quebec ending up like louisiana. this is what we should be debating about, really. i don't want it to happen, so i'm fine with language laws. on the other hand you don't care, so you see language laws as being useless and hurtful. so, is it so crazy to care about the survival of french canadian culture? or any culture?
@anectote & true montrealer
Deletecheerleading suits you better than political analysis, dudes. keep it up.
I think apparatchik may have completely annihilated it ! LOL
DeleteHere kitty kitty kitty kitty…..mmmm….(no answer)!
By jove......I think kitty went to kitty heaven !!!!! lolololololol...
“cheerleading suits you better than political analysis, dudes. keep it up”
DeleteHow’s that backside of yours pinstripes? Red and Sore I’ll bet!!! Can you even sit down right now? LOL.
You were rendered even smaller, and more insignificant that you actually are…if that's even possible...AND that ‘pinstripes’…SUITS YOU STELLAR !!
Now humble and learn from it ....and by the way...while we're on the subject of asses...the inside of your head needs a dire Enema ...go take care of that soonest pls.
@AnecTOTE "How’s that backside of yours pinstripes? Red and Sore I’ll bet!!!"
DeleteI would go with GAPING.
By jove that was a vicious reaming! Crikey mate!
@anectote
Deleteby jove you are vulgar, mate. eeew.
@resident evil
Deleteeeew. you are vulgar too!
ok i'm out you win. can't follow you down there. have fun.
dude all ledevoir quotes you posted are very supportive of bill 14. but none of them proves it contains "measures they (separatists) could later bank on polemically of course". just legitimate political and cultural concerns from my point of view.
DeleteThen you and I must have divergent opinions on how to voice legitimate political and cultural concerns. And you need to learn a little more about how your political confrères do business with us. Which, as a student, you are of course eager to do.
If you don't see potential polemicism in stating that the Canadian military is a tool for French-Canadian assimilation (rather than a combination of pragmatism and potential indifference on all sides), then you're quite a tool yourself.
Playing identity politics against everybody in Quebec who's voted Liberal since Bourassa guy died, is polemical, as is claiming that relative status-quo on the language front is necessarily anti-Frenchification. Christine St-Pierre was herself frequently accused, first by the francosupremacists, then by the mainstream separatist spin-doctors, then by opposition politicians themselves, of being "soft" on the language front.
Railing against certain categories of citizens who enjoy language rights and opportunities that the French-Canadian group doesn't enjoy -- IN AN EFFORT TO REDUCE OTHERS' RIGHTS and not INCREASE bilingualism opportuntities for French-Canadian Quebecers and post-101 immigrants -- is polemical. And it is THIS jealousy that is really at the heart of French-Canadian anglophobia. "We can't have it, so we'll make you captives just like us". Wrap it in "language/cultural protection" if you have to, but all you're doing is putting lipstick on a pig.
Drumming the fear of our impending assimilation, without correspondingly and genuinely musing about how bad such a scenario would really be for us, is a tired and polemical tune being hammered into our minds since 1759. As though bilingualism or even assimilation, should that be our individual choice, should be forbidden. Whatever for?
Blatantly lying about and condemning all of "les autres" in one fell swoop as having refused to learn French until they were compelled to -- and using this same lie to polemically perpetrate further reductions of linguistic freedom -- is par for the course.
Feeling proud to be a francophone because of proposed language legislation that officially claims to protect and reinforce French while underhandedly committing even greater ills -- using as a reference imagined pre-1759 realities (The British enjoyed an important relative numerical advantage on the continent even during much of New France) to back up your claim and invoking assimilation as akin to Native extermination -- is polemical.
Talk about linguistic absolutism as being the only viable option, with all other options being termed unacceptable compromises -- demonstrates how emotionally embattled and pugilistic these commenters and those who think like them are.
the cultural communities in lieu of ethnic communities. i understand your concern. the pq must have given a reason to justify this bit. what is it?
DeleteIf you find that answer, please provide a link to the original source. I'd like to read and gauge whether this is a separatist political maneuver or if it's got some genuinely and universally benevolent aim.
les valeurs de la société québécoise. i'm not outraged at all. i'm confident quebeckers will be fine with whatever these end up being: democracy, equality, etc. inclusive stuff don't worry.
No hijabs, English only half the size of French on signs (and only allowed on certain streets in the West Island), encouraging bilingualism for our children while discouraging excellent bilingual education starting from preschool (including in the regions),...
I don't share your confidence or your trust in our politicians, especially those seasoned-yet-novice idiots who make a career improvising on what "our identity" is and isn't. I know who I am, and I don't need the National Assembly's help, merci.
le droit de vivre, travailler, apprendre en français. seems fair to me. of course court cases will pop up where particular situations will have to be debated and settled. i'm also fine with this.
If you're fine with having a law enshrining a right to live, work, and learn in one particular language, would you be just as fine with the same provision conferring equal and corresponding rights in English? Why "make" a "right" to live, work, and study in French when we already do? Why is such a provision necessary, if not to act as a grandfather clause in some doomsday/bogeyman scenario where French-Canadians themselves would choose to willfully assimilate into English?
your whole outrage is based on your indifference to quebec ending up like louisiana. this is what we should be debating about, really. i don't want it to happen, so i'm fine with language laws. on the other hand you don't care, so you see language laws as being useless and hurtful. so, is it so crazy to care about the survival of french canadian culture? or any culture?
DeleteYes it is. And it's been distracting us from more important pursuits. And I'm so glad you indirectly bring up the point of assimilation, since I think we need to discuss its potential effects in Quebec more rigorously than just our fear of it.
I might not like to see Quebec ending up like Louisiana, but I'm just as unimpressed with the separatists dream (and limited legislative success) to turn Montreal into a larger and slightly more multi-ethnic and French-speaking version of Saint-Jérôme. I don't agree with socially engineering any place in the world the way they have done it in Montreal.
Further, this idea of a temporary truce in our constitutional stability and social peace, all being conditional on whimsical ebbs and flows of French-Canadian Quebecers' collective mood swings which are in reality dictated by none other than carreerist provincial politicians, is a caprice that in my opinion is wrongfully indulged. Consider the implications: if all it takes to whip three million French-Canadians into a frenzy against Canada is Meech or even a Gomery inquiry, I'm not so sure I'd want or trust the likes of these same people to arbitrarily decide on less "constitutional" (and more day-to-day) matters that affect me.
I don't believe they are all that different from their linguistic counterparts just because they have a different mother tongue. And I don't believe, as they do, that any other language or community able to challenge their socially engineered utopia in Quebec ought to be roundly neutered (and failing that, severely reprobated in an existentially theatrical struggle until rendered irrelevant or publicly unacceptable). Severe limitations on classes of people's classes of expression are absurd. Now, I'm not much of a boxer, but if you need to tie up your opponents hands, feet, legs, strap him into a chair that's bolted to the floor, and blindfold him in order to sucker-punch him, isn't that a brutally obvious sign that you're fighting in the wrong class?
While I'm not a serious advocate of assimilation, I have not been convinced that assimilation is the most horrible thing that could happen to us. All I ever hear is that it's the precipice we should never go near, without a serious and lucid thought experiment as to why. My opponents, as you did, invoke the Louisiana example so often it's become knee-jerk and cliché. And while I believe that our two scenarios are comparable in that they're filled with the descendents of departed or vanquished colonial powers, that's where I think the comparables end.
But even assuming I were to entertain the comparison for the sake of conversation, I'd need to consider that the Louisiana Purchase happened in 1803 and the Louisianans themselves weren't entirely assimilated overnight, but well over the course of the following century and a half, along with other arriving Caribbean and European immigrants, and migrants from the U.S. itself. All these people together created a thriving, distinctive, regional culture that persists to this very day. Their descendents, American citizens, irrespective of whether they are Black, mixed, or White, have English or Cajun as a mother tongue, are thriving U.S. citizens who participate in the dynamic unit that is their country just as any other group does.
I'm starting to wonder whether assimilation is nothing more than an effective bogeyman in this debate whose time has come to be examined at face value. We need to collectively ponder whether our supposed "love" for the French language isn't one more residual holdover from our ingrained defiance of anything British and post-conquest. We've thankfully revisited our blind devotion to the Catholic Church. Our "revenge of the cradles", just like the deprivation and poverty that it engendered for us, is now passing into history. Today, one can surely find very devoted Catholics in Quebec, just as you might occasionally still encounter a young family with four, five or six children. They certainly aren't mainstream, but the beauty of such cases is that they are now arrived at by free choice and not societally-driven compulsion. And I happen to believe that that is the right way to do things. Consider that even the form of English and French we speak today is quite different from that of our colonizing ancestors. As the descendent of allophones, I likely might pass on at least one additional language to my children. It's really up to me more than the State.
DeleteRather than bank on a modified form of insular survivalism predicated on maintaining the last perceived remaining vestige of the colonial era -- language -- isn't it time we honestly considered whether mandatory French is still right for everybody?
Don't forget folks, there are only three weeks left before Bill 14, so if you haven't signed the petition yet, here's your chance:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.assnat.qc.ca/en/exprimez-votre-opinion/petition/Petition-3559/index.html
Don't forget to pump the hell out of it on Social Media!
LordDorchester
DeleteI have a sneaky suspicicion that the PQ expects Bill 14 to die and will use that as a springboard excuse to push for a majority government next time, seeing as they and they alone are the true defenders of the French language/culture. Decourcy's condescending response to the overwhelming criticism of the bill speaks volumes. She is recieving orders from above, this is a game plan that we are witnessing. Lets hope it backfires.
I would agree. They know it won;t pass.
DeleteIt's just a game to agiate the population. the real objective is they think this will give them a majority.
Destroy social peace for their own petty politics.
[...] suspicicion that the PQ expects Bill 14 to die and will use that as a springboard excuse to push for a majority government next time [...]
DeleteSuspicion? The pattern is practically written into their DNA:
(1) provoke a crisis for a "problem" that doesn't really exist
(2) exaggerate and claim you've been slighted/insulted/humiliated/disrespected
(3) telegraph paranoid, emotional and illogical reactions to their receptive base
(4) rinse and repeat
Decourcy's condescending response to the overwhelming criticism of the bill speaks volumes
You shoulda known her at the CSDM... 'nuff said.
She is recieving orders from above, this is a game plan that we are witnessing.
... sharing one interesting similarity with last spring's student protests in we're seeing a pattern involving provocation, social pressure, sustained whining, and the securing of sympathy from ideological allies.
Lets hope it backfires.
I predict a stalemate.
It's just a game [...] they think this will give them a majority. Destroy social peace for their own petty politics.
...all while claiming Charest was the supreme evil-doer for upsetting social peace because he wouldn't cave to the student unions' demands for lowered and then free tuition.
Time and again I revisit the events of last spring/summer in my mind and wonder whether we'll ever publicly know the extent to which we were witnessing a péquiste+union-backed coup.
Appointing your buddies to key public- and near-public sector positions also seems to be another area in which it's evil if done by the Liberals but not so bad if done by the Parti Québécois.
The word magouille, commonly used in French as a synonym for back-door shenanigans, adequately characterizes both parties' actions in their partisan way of doing business. The only part I find upsetting is how often it has been invoked in conjunction with Liberal-era shenanigans, and how absent it has been from the rapidly accumulating PQ clusterfucks.
The media's complicity in this Pavlovian word choice reminds me of the proverbial extremely dysfunctional divorcing couple, where one parent (typically the agitator and better manipulator) openly vilifies the other (typically the more passive/indifferent one) in the hopes of securing a better settlement package. The trouble is that this Federalist-Separatist divorce trial has been going on for far too long and produced little benefit for the people in whose name it has purportedly been waged.
We, the public, are not the powerless children in this equation. We need to realize that we are the judge.
And here's hoping the judge (electorate) ultimately adjudicates this one wisely and, I hope, leaves the separatist agitators with nothing, finally condemning them to rapid extinction, with the rest of us getting on with the work of building the city, province, and country that are inclusive and not threatened by our citizens' numerous mutual differences.
"Time and again I revisit the events of last spring/summer in my mind and wonder whether we'll ever publicly know the extent to which we were witnessing a péquiste+union-backed coup."
DeleteBank on it.
During one of last summer's marches, a bus carrying protesters parked right next to the building where I work. The bus was empty at the time, I figured it had already let off its passengers, and then I noticed that next to the backdrop of the building there were bundles and bundles of protest signs, in the hundreds at least...up against the wall, ready for raising up in the air. The signs looked professionally made, all were same size posters and the stick part on every sign was perfectly measured. They were outsourced for sure. At that moment, I thought to myself..'now where the hell did they get the money to have all these signs made, not to mention the money to pay for the bus they rented? Can't pay for tuition, but we sure have money for this sh*t?"....
Yeah...BANK ON IT that they were back by the PQ & the unions !!!!
"Appointing your buddies to key public- and near-public sector positions also seems to be another area in which it's evil if done by the Liberals but not so bad if done by the Parti Québécois."
Deleteappointing a political ennemy to a key post would be stupid. i don't expect this from a government. it's normal that a government appoints dudes that will support their program.
the difference between liberal and parti québécois appointments is the former appointed useless guys that happened to be faithful sponsors and the later appoints fellows sporting top cv's. i prefer the later.
the difference between liberal and parti québécois appointments is the former appointed useless guys that happened to be faithful sponsors and the later appoints fellows sporting top cv's. i prefer the later.
DeleteIf that's truly what you believe, then ipso facto you cannot prefer:
Jean-Yves Duthel: communications go-to guy for the PQ, then Bernard Landry's press attaché, palsy with a certain monsieur Blanchet (Marois' husband). Now to head up Investissement Québec's office in Munich. The profile from the next-most qualified candidate from within the organization was shunted aside to make room for this big kahuna, whose experience in global trade development is pretty much limited to the the illegal campaign contributions he allegedly participated in making to Vision Montréal last year. He needs to appear before Quebec's Director General of Elections in a hearing scheduled in a week and a half, otherwise he doesn't get to enjoy any Bavarian beer. What a fuss these delays can be.
Sylvain Simard: five-time PQ MNA, Bouchard's former minister for International Relations, temporarily served as Education minister and Treasury Board secretariat under Landry. What that has to do with running the provincial liquor board, I don't know.
Nicolas Girard: tapped to head up Montreal's Metropolitan Transit Authority, this defeated PQ candidate is a previous transportation critic and has surrounded himself with "competent people" as he "eases into" his job. (See Editor's comment from October 12th 2012).
And that's without even considering the appointment of Gilles Duceppe and Rita Dionne-Marsolais to man the "national" (which is a new synonym for provincial) investigative commission on employment insurance.
So yeah, "top CV's" has a rather subjective meaning it seems.
When they float to the top of a Liberal pile, they're 'useless guys that happened to be faithful sponsors'. But when they float to the top of a Péquiste file, that's just smart politics being carried out in the normal course of business with fellows having the competence necessary... even when they're demonstrably incompetent.
Your double standard would be amusing if the argument you qualified it with weren't so vapid.
I hope you don't think I actually believe that you believe the crap you write. What's worse is that I think -- and know -- that you're a would-be partisan hack except that you completely lack the ability to rigorously assemble thoughts and seriously defend a point of view.
... all of which clearly explains why you spend time pretending to ask the questions rather than pretending to answer them.
"I hope you don't think I actually believe that you believe the crap you write. What's worse is that I think -- and know -- that you're a would-be partisan hack except that you completely lack the ability to rigorously assemble thoughts and seriously defend a point of view.
Delete... all of which clearly explains why you spend time pretending to ask the questions rather than pretending to answer them."
@R.E
Are we agreed that Apparatchik wins the Nobel Prize for bitch-slapping trolls? LOLOLOL
... all of which clearly explains why you spend time pretending to ask the questions rather than pretending to answer them.
Delete[...]
Are we agreed that Apparatchik wins the Nobel Prize for bitch-slapping trolls?
Abso-fucking-lutely!!!
I jealously concede. He's on a roll today.
DeleteBut then again, App is so intellectually superior to Student, it's really not a fair fight.
Expecting Student to structure a workable argument is like running a kid with downs syndrome on Jeopardy.
@anectote & true montrealer & resident evil
Deleteyou go girls! gimme a "a"! gimme a "p"! gimme a "p"!...
@apparatchik
duthel: you forget his stints at the creation of the cité du multimedia, at the sgf, upa, ftq fund and at organizing the quebec presence at the davos summit. by jove you push the bad faith limits, mate. top cv.
simard: he landed a top civil servant job and you list four top civil servant former positions of his. fits the bill as far as i'm concerned.
girard: was he a good transportation critic? yes, he was great. his integrity is pristine. there's a good chanc he ends being a good mta head.
duceppe: his experience in labour unions and in the ottawa parliement ensures is the man to head an inquiry on the consequences of ottawa's new labour laws.
"...even when they're demonstrably incompetent."
in light of the above, this statement is very unwise.
As usual Apparatchik took down the troll in a stupendous manner - not that most of pay attention to the little separatist's droning on and on about nothing but there it is - +1000 Apparatchik!
Deleteduthel: you forget his stints at the creation of the cité du multimedia, at the sgf, upa, ftq fund and at organizing the quebec presence at the davos summit. by jove you push the bad faith limits, mate. top cv.
DeleteI love how you conveniently gloss over that donation to Vision Montreal. And then **I** am writing in bad faith?
'nuff said.
simard: he landed a top civil servant job and you list four top civil servant former positions of his. fits the bill as far as i'm concerned.
As far as you're concerned, he could have half his credentials and fit the bill just the same.
girard: was he a good transportation critic? yes, he was great. his integrity is pristine. there's a good chanc he ends being a good mta head.
Pristine integrity and what you call a decent performance in what was in effect a vaguely pertinent role in an opposition's shadow cabinet. A top CV, to be sure, provided you have the honesty to add that the partisan pool you're choosing from is pretty shallow and remind the audience that "we're working with what we've got".
Raise the bar a little and in polite company we'd be politely referring to him as "our little miracle".
duceppe: his experience in labour unions and in the ottawa parliement ensures is the man to head an inquiry on the consequences of ottawa's new labour laws.
He's an over-rated post-communist agitator and failed hospital orderly whose record consistently proves he is a better shit-disturber than a committed worker. Don't get me wrong, I don't much like the special-interest capitalist fatcats who luck out and get plum jobs any more than their Beverly Hillbilly counterparts. But his carreer talking smack about the very country his party was created to prove was unworkable belies his suitability for the job, in my judgment.
"...even when they're demonstrably incompetent."
in light of the above, this statement is very unwise.
In light of your participatory record and style on this blog, further participation without committed independent study of federalist ideology would be even more unwise.
@apartachik
Deleteduthel: in my opinion he will be cleared of any wrongdoing in the vision montreal thing. let's see what happens. yes you are writing in bad faith by not acknowledging his stints at cité du multimedia, at the sgf, upa, ftq fund and at organizing the quebec presence at the davos summit. plus his germanophone background.
simard: your argument is empty. let's agree the guy is a fit, then.
girard: one of the strongest mna in the last legislature and a totally pertinent role as a transportation critic is for sure an excellent cv for a transport agency chief role.
duceppe: empty argument here again. i'll take it as an acknowledgment of his pertinent background as a worker's rights advocate, a fierce politician in ottawa and a great leader.
any other pq nominees you would like me to justify for you apparatchik?
No need, dunce cap. I've seen what passes for "justification" in your book and I really don't need your analytical services.
DeleteYou were right yesterday in stating that not appointing allies is politically stupid and that you wouldn't expect a government to be so stupid as to not properly vet the people they nominate. Yet in the same breath you sank yourself, forgetting that a pretense of competence needs to be maintained by any party nomination. You came up with the delicious over-generalization and binarism wherein you stated that the difference between Liberal and PQ appointments lay in the former choosing on the basis of fundraising while the latter pick those with "top CVs". As if both sides can't engage in both behaviors, or better yet, nominate individuals who are both competent and generous party donors.
In a game where everybody's naming their buddies, I can't and shouldn't engage seriously with a delusional moron who thinks his people's shit doesn't smell but that only his opponents' does.
@aparatchik
Delete"I can't and shouldn't engage seriously with a delusional moron who thinks his people's shit doesn't smell but that only his opponents' does."
the country project attracts people who genuinely want to make a better place out of quebec. the liberals don't have that. having the mafia onboard doesn't help them either. helps them win for sure, but it's some kind of guarantees that crooks will be nominated under their rule.
well, mate, i agree with you that you'll find rotten apples in every basket, but still, some species of apples rot faster and deeper.
my "binarism" does present a more nuanced picture than your "everybody's the same" unitarism.
p.s. you insult, i win.
I still advocate partitioning this place - let the damn federal government assume some responsibility here and hold their own referendum - those areas of quebec that want out go to hell out of Canada. One final referendum and we get rid of the lot of them. They will move from areas that vote to stay within Canada, we will get back to business as usual and start living our lives in a normal manner again. The Editor would be grateful because then he could close this blog down, IF and the PQ could close theirs down and we could find other things to use our energy on rather than this damn debate - 40 frigging years is long enough for these people to know what way they want to go - in or out of Canada one final time. Francophones that live elsewhere in Canada and are unhappy can move to their new country - Borders will be closed to any immigration from that new country and we could have a new bilingual province in Canada. Checkerboard or not, it's the only reasonable way out of this disaster of a province. Even if she pushes for a majority next time around, I still think the majority of francophones are smart enough to realize that this bill will kill all good will between the two cultures and I don't think they agree with the PQ militants. It's a gamble but we've been at a stalemate for so long that something has to give.
ReplyDeleteActually, IF founder Jean-Paul Perreault doesn't just want to separate, he wants to remove all english of Gatineau, Ottawa, Aylmer, and Pontiac. He is so delusional that he believes Ontarian are buying homes in Quebec to evade the taxmen in Ontario!
Deletehttp://www.imperatif-francais.org/bienvenu/articles/2010/fraude-fiscale.html
"Envoyé par FrankVaillantdeMontral5 13 novembre 2010 à 21 h 04 HNE
Est-ce que l'on a affaire à des "ontariens" qui "résident au Québec" et qui trafiquent leur identité ou #2 des québécois qui trichent sur leur lieu de résidence?
Maclean et moi votons pour l'option #2." Haha! I too vote for option 2. No but seriously, J-P was at the front-line to save Montford but opposes english services in Gatineau. He also wants OC Transpo to offer services in french, but opposes when STO offers services in english. This guy is not interested in seperation but elimitating all english from Ottawa, Gatineau, and Pontiac. His rezoning is often simplistic and more often then not he appears racist and xenophobic. Anyway, why is Marc Bureau still paying for this guy rent?
Again look at this,
Deletehttp://fr.canoe.ca/infos/quebeccanada/archives/2013/04/20130409-133204.html
He wasn't saying this when he was at the front-line to save Montford. How come it wasn't discrimination, then? J-P is a delusional trouble-maker. On another story, He attack Appletree for advertising in english in La belle Province, but was unable to recognize the fact that Ontario had a better healthcare then us, so he attacked the messenger. He isn't particularily bright and was unable to understand how come Ontario had paved Highway 417 all the way to Arnprior, when Quebec still doesn't have two lanes all the way to Gatineau, and Pontiac will never see highway 50 extended all the way, as was planned. Quebec is so corrupt but J-P doesn't seem to understand the reality instead attacking "les maudit anglais"
@liam
Delete"..He is so delusional that he believes Ontarian are buying homes in Quebec to evade the taxmen in Ontario!"
mate you just did not understand the article you try to comment. many ontarians live in quebec, for whatever reason, but don't pay their taxes in quebec. and that's a fraud. they don't do it to "evade the ontario taxman". it's the opposite.
what's to blame here? your poor mastery of french or your legendary bad faith?
How does Jean-Paul Perreault know they are Ontarians? They could be real Quebecers that don't want to pay the high taxes in Quebec.
DeleteAlso have access to better health care service and be able to send their children an English school.
Deletestudent,
Deletemany ontarians live in quebec, for whatever reason, but don't pay their taxes in quebec.
What is the evidence that they are indeed Ontarians and not just Quebecers looking for lower car price and avoiding to have winter tires by having their vehicles registered in Ontario?
Liam,
DeleteHe isn't particularily bright and was unable to understand how come Ontario had paved Highway 417 all the way to Arnprior, when Quebec still doesn't have two lanes all the way to Gatineau, and Pontiac will never see highway 50 extended all the way, as was planned.
The ironic thing is that even with A-50 operational, the quicker way to go from Montreal downtown to Gatineau downtown is still through 417, exit at Ottawa, go along Rideau Canal and take the bridge across; rather than go all the way north on A-15 to connect to A-50.
Yes, the whole of Canada is to serve everyone and everything in French but heaven forbid if the residents of Gatineau see anything so disgusting as an English word in the grocery store. And Liam you're right - they want the bus service in Ottawa to be bilingual but not so in Quebec. Time to rid ourselves of these self-centered, egocentric, IF and their like minded crazy followers. They are ruining our country and our economy all over Canada but especially right here in quebec. They are so narrow-minded that they don't realize how sick all of this is!
Delete@anonymous
Delete"How does Jean-Paul Perreault know they are Ontarians?"
you'll have to ask him, mate. i don't have that answer.
in any case liam got it wrong: perreault doesn't "believe Ontarian are buying homes in Quebec to evade the taxmen in Ontario." that was my point here.
Quelle communauté anglo-québécoise ?
ReplyDeleteIl y a lieu de réviser entièrement le partage des avoirs : avec 3,5 % d’Anglo-québécois, il n’y aucune hésitation à affirmer qu’il y a une université anglophone en trop, un méga-hôpital universitaire en trop, des services sociaux et de santé sur-gonflés, des ressources culturelles et médiatiques plus qu’abondantes…
This is absurd...
I agree, especially in light of the only part of the article I think they get right:
DeleteLes définitions utilisées pour désigner la « communauté anglophone » varient grandement selon les objectifs politiques des acteurs. Certains cherchent à en élargir les effectifs, les autres, à les diminuer le plus possible.
I also find particularly absurd the following line of reasoning:
Le maintien des avantages indus dont jouit la minuscule communauté anglo-québécoise ne peut que perpétuer la dynamique politique actuelle. Un message clair doit être envoyé : le Québec est français et tous ceux qui veulent s’y établir doivent comprendre que c’est en français que ça se passe.
This reflects nothing more than a policy- and emotion-based forgone conclusion, with a cavalier attitude to boot. A cavalier attitude whose apparent assertiveness continues to telegraph not an affirmative commitment to French, but rather a raging hatred for the existence of thriving and functioning anglophone components in our society.
Further proof that these francosupremacists' paranoia is truly more informed by their own insecurities and warped philosophies vis-à-vis "l'autre" than by what really is. Because the answer to the underlying questions is ultimately a highly subjective one. How much is too much? And on what basis does one even arrive at an answer?
And so on it goes:
ReplyDeletehttp://montreal.ctvnews.ca/postscript-pq-covers-ears-to-widespread-opposition-to-bill-14-1.1245142#ixzz2QwND92fT
No listen, no understand
None so blind as those who will not see.
Delete@Apparatchik
Delete"None so blind as those who will not see."
Especially when that 'blindness' is filled with the fog of hate. Consequently, can anyone really question the belief that these people will never amount to anything?
When they're hell bent on keeping up their demographic weight for the sake of keeping up their demographic weight (and scream bloody murder at the slightest perceived "threat"), it kinda makes you wonder whether playing this particular zero-sum game is silly or valorous. And whether we need another flood.
DeleteI'm Noah and they ain't gettin' on my Arc ..LOLOL
DeleteFROM ED
ReplyDeleteI don't understand why some are still discussing the partition option. The only one that can launch it is the prime minister. Do you really think that Harper's ego will allow him to go down in history as the Prime Minister that presided over the break up of the country.? Ed
ED I am also completely bewildered that anyone wastes their time with "partition". Perhaps it satisfies some emotional need to strike back against the idea of separation. But if separation doesn't happen then partition is moot. And unless I am missing something - there is no possibility of separation in the foreseeable future. The separatists refuse to acknowledge this. But so what. They're wrong. So forget partition.
DeleteRe our crusading Editor's post about Vigile.net. I have been reading Vigile almost daily for 12 + years. I love Vigile. There is no website that gives me more confidence about the future of Canada, with Quebec included, than Vigile. It's one of the last bastions of ethnic nationalism. And Vigile is an amazing repository of the strongest arguments available about why Quebec must separate. Spend some time with Vigile. Its worth it. Conspiracy theories, textbook ethnic nationalism, total ignorance of North America's economy and the regional economy of Quebec - and please send your cheque. Since the new management arrived they want $60,000.00 per year! It's just old line ethnic nationalists talking to each other. Nothing changes for these folks.
Editor - does Vigile know we are talking about them ? I doubt it. They are curled up in a fetal position somewhere north of La Tuque. Lost in the woods. But I do love the poor misguided souls. How can we help them ? Can we do the Christian thing, the good Samaritan and all that ?? No. They are beyond persuasion. As P.T. Barnum is reputed to have said : "there's a sucker born every minute". If you have scientific bent and are interested in observing suckers, please visit Vigile.net.
Well Sandy the point I'm trying/have been trying to make the point that it is always up to the separatists to call the moves on separation and this is what is tying the country and the province up in knots for 40 years. Why do we always wait to take action until they whip up the population such as they did in 95 for a referendum called with their question, their time frame, their demands, etc. If the federal government and we federalists that reside here took the matter into our hands for a change, we could ensure that any referendum would be under our control and not theirs. We are always on the defense and we should, for once, be on the offense. Why is it not our referendum? Why is is always their referendum and their winning conditions? Why can we not show leadership once in awhile and hold a referendum when we have winning conditions?
DeleteNO Sandy,
DeletePartition is more logical then expecting any Quebec government to restore or even maintain rights to the Quebec minorities. I for think it would be wiser to term if the creation of the 11th Canadian province. While there would be overwhelming support to partition Quebec among the minorities. I think to get more broad support, trying to get support among Francophones in Ontario to create a new bilingual province with the Minorities dominated areas of Quebec and the Francophone dominated areas of Ontario. Which could find broader support in the rest of Canada and among a minority of Quebec francophones (enough to have a majority in areas like soulanges to get corridor to Ontario)
Furthermore, there is more fear in just the concept of Partition then any anti bill 101 or minority rights movement by the PQ, mmf, vigile types then anything else. IF there are no more minorities under the jurisdiction of the Quebec government their raison d;etre and scapegoats disappear.
DeleteAgree Jarry - We have to start making them aware of their actions - so far they have run the whole show - we must make them see the very real consequences of their on-going harassment against our communities. Partition is a very real and very possible solution to their never ending attacks. When they realize that they can't just run off with everything because they vote to do so, they will have start thinking about more than just saving their $50B federal taxes. Their dream of taking everything we own has to be replaced with a vision of the consequences of taking action against Canada without retaliation.
DeleteEd - I don't understand why you think Harper is a coward. What makes you think this? If we do not put pressure on the federal government to support us, why would they? They probably will not do anything until the PQ again whip the population into a frenzy over Bill 14 (see Landry now trying to amalgamate the separatist parties) but we have to be ready by stating where we stand. Not insisting on federal assistance, even through this blog and every other media we can, does not help our cause. We have to be very clear that we have no intention of leaving Canada even if the separatists get their 50+1 dream vote. We cannot afford to be blind-sided again as we were in 1995 by thinking that everything is going to be OK and they won't make that margin. Partition in this event has to be discussed and pushed. The Landry group is going to be ready and we won't again. They are now going to claim that the laws of Canada are holding them back by declaring that Bill 14 should be allowed no matter what the violations of Human Rights and the lawyers say. Off to the vote for a majority that they want then another referendum with Bill 14 as the hammer. Can no one else see this coming? We have to be ready to say fine - go if you wish but areas that vote to stay will do so! That is what's coming if they can get the militants whipped up to their usual frenzy.
Delete@sandy
Delete"Editor - does Vigile know we are talking about them ? I doubt it."
you think this blog is not worthy of a separatist's attention? that's not very cool for the editor sandy mctire. you should show more respect to your host in my humble opinion.
And Ed how about he goes down in history for "saving" Canada minus some territory - territory that we would retain as a corridor to keep the rest of Canada intact without any more of this crippling debate? Something that he could aspire to and come out looking like a hero I would say. Better than having a reputation as being the one that "let it all slip away" wouldn't you say?
Delete@cutie003
Deletehow would we know that harper saved canada if he lets go quebec before quebec goes?!?
FROM ED
DeleteIn an article of La Presse dated June 2004 the opposition leader told PM Martin that there has a to be a winning referendum plus a vote in each province. ED
FROM ED
ReplyDeleteSandy, I wonder what Barnum meant by that. Everyone knows that newborns go right for the teat. Nothing new. G'nite Ed
An article from LaPresse on Bill 14 - vicious separatists have to start paying attention:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.lapresse.ca/debats/votre-opinion/201304/17/01-4641974-une-faute-morale-et-politique.php
not quite an "article from lapresse", but an opinion by a random dude.
Deletehere's a better analysis for you http://tinyurl.com/d6slcr4 .
Sorry kiddo - you truly are hopeless. Once again, your idea of "better analysis" is yet another predisposition to exerting control over another people.
DeleteJust remember this - you reap what you sow.
You might not believe it, just because it's been going on for so damn long, but believe me this shit will come back to you separatists.
And with that, here's a little history lesson: Back when the Romans were on their rampage of domination, they started a little tradition to keep things in check.
With each new successful conquest, the victorious Roman generals would ride into Rome and as they rode in on the chariots, and took in the adulation of the adoring crowd, they would have a slave positioned next to them...
...and that slave's job was to repeat the following line over and over again: "All glory is fleeting, all power is transitional."
Quebec is already coming apart at the seams. Something tells me you're not a big fan of ancient history, so here's a more modern 12-second explanation: http://bit.ly/dq5reC
You're welcome.
@resident evil
Deletei don't really understand your analogy with the roman empire, mate. who are the modern day slaves being shown around on victory parades? please tell me more about the similarities between the roman empire and bill 14 supporters. thanks.
Man, Apparatchik really nailed on the head when he said the following about you:
Delete"I hope you don't think I actually believe that you believe the crap you write. What's worse is that I think -- and know -- that you're a would-be partisan hack except that you completely lack the ability to rigorously assemble thoughts and seriously defend a point of view.
... all of which clearly explains why you spend time pretending to ask the questions rather than pretending to answer them."
You couldn't follow an adult conversation to save your life, could you?
It really relieves me to know that you are what the separatist movement is built on. You Student, are the living, breathing guarantee that the sovereignist movement will never go anywhere.
Merci!
@resident evil
Deletewhy the digression, mate? weren't you going about the roman empire? why don't you want to clear your bad comment up?!? take it as an opportunity, dude, aren't you a businessman? the world is reading, you know, i'm not the only one who wants to go to the bottom of your analogy between the roman empire and bill 14 supporters. please come back to your own topic.
Tell you what my tiny little separatist.
DeleteWhy don't you put more work into your sentence structuring and I MIGHT acknowledge your request.
"i'm not the only one who wants to go to the bottom of your analogy between the roman empire and bill 14 supporters"
Actually, you are - the others all got it.
@resident evil
Deleteyou're not coming back to your own topic unless i improve my writing skills?!? doesn't make sense. you're drifting away, mate.
@Editor
ReplyDelete"Few would assert that Mr. Labrie's attitude is representative of mainstream Quebec Francophones, but has language and culture extremism in Quebec led to a spike in intolerance? That readers is a question for you to discuss in the comments section.."
From what I hear....I would simply like to say ....YES.
True story:
A friend of mine told me that while in a SAQ boutique about a weak ago, in the west island, a clerk greeted a customer with the usual "Bonjour/hello". The customer apparently got very irritated and asked the clerk, "c'est quoi ça, bonjour/hello?" To which the clerk responded, "ma chère dame, je n'ai rien à apprendre de vous" LOL
True story no. 2
Another friend of mine who works at The Bay, also in the west island, told me that just recently, there was a memo distributed to all employees instructing them that they could only greet customers with "Bonjour"...from here on in. Apparently a disgruntled customer complained.
This is what Quebec society is concerned with: Shear PETTINESS. After all, pettiness is as pettiness does !
These morons make a stink over how they are greeted by store clerks. This is what preoccupies them, rather than being gravely concerned with dire and legitimate issues like the $256,000,000,000.00 debt that hangs over their heads.
Then we wonder why still today, 'Quebec society' hasn't amounted to anything. 'Petty is as petty does'
"This is what preoccupies them, rather than being gravely concerned with dire and legitimate issues like the $256,000,000,000.00 debt that hangs over their heads."
Deletemy guess is both preoccupies them. did you know you can have two preoccupations at the same time anectote? there you go, you learnt it from me.
"Then we wonder why still today, 'Quebec society' hasn't amounted to anything."
you seek respect and you come up with this scornful shit... you are a pretty sad sight, mate.
Putting Canadian wines under "autre Pays" in the SAQ.
DeletePQ Quebec can;t even be friendly "international" neighbors and create "Canada" as a separate country and stock Ontario/BC/PEI wines if they had a sense of fair play. Even that is too much recognition in their minds.
Petty thinking
You;d think in 2013 the SAQ would be able to get beyond this finally.
So stupid and quite enlightening as to the mental state of this whole movement. They insist on operating as if they really are a country already so they can say "nothing will change when we vote to leave Canada" - think of all the work that has to be done in order to straighten out all this mess later on.
Delete"my guess is both preoccupies them. did you know you can have two preoccupations at the same time anectote? there you go, you learnt it from me."
ReplyDeletePinstripes...only a little loser like you would put how you're greeted in a store and a $256,000,000,000.00 debt on the same scale of 'Preoccupations'. You have absolutely nothing to impart to anyone.
"you seek respect and you come up with this scornful shit... you are a pretty sad sight, mate.'
Did that comment wound you? Indeed...The truth hurts.
@anectote
Deletei don't agree. all preoccupations won't weight the same, but they can all go on the same scale.
when you claim quebec society has not amounted to anything, you won't hurt anyone but yourself, mate. a bit like yelling "i'm an ignorant" from your balcony.
"a bit like yelling "i'm an ignorant" from your balcony."
DeleteA lot like you do here, huh !! LOL
Please shut the f...up, I'd like to say that your ignorance is only superseded by your utter stupidity, but in your case, it's a tight race.
Go lick your wounds.
Man...this is like watching Brock Lesnar beat up a wheelchair-bound cripple.
DeleteJust brutal.
@R.E.
DeleteOr maybe I took a 'Hammer to a fly'...but the SOB fly had it comin' LOL
@resident evil
Deletedude don't push it. i can beat up an imbecile asking for respect from people he gleefully insults, sure, but not a wheelchair-bound cripple. i was raised with noble values, you know.
"i was raised with noble values, you know."
DeleteHmmmm....let's see, you support racism and advocate xenophobia.
I'd say your parents failed you as far as raising you with values goes.
I'm going to go hug my mother and father and thank them for not being intellectually sterile white-trash idiots.
--AHEM!!--
DeleteAs a separatist, you are a defacto racist and xenophobe.
I know you guys hate it when we call you out on this, but hey, truth hurts, doesn't it?
@resident evil
Delete"As a separatist, you are a defacto racist and xenophobe."
why?
what about the irish? were they racists when they chose to part ways from the uk?
By jove mate, you've gone and done it again Watson..I mean err, Student. You simply cannot compare the Irish to the Quebecois, mate.
DeleteThat is sheer poppycock...poppycock, I say.
Every situation is different. So you are hereby called to order and must refrain from comparing the "plight" of the Quebecois as being in the same league as say, Tibetans.
As for your previous comment comparing Louisiana to Quebec, once again, you miss the point. First, you make out like you're the only one here who cares about French.
What about people like Cat, AnecTOTE and myself who happen to make up part of the 50/50 club? You think we want to see half of our background vanish? Hells no.
But if, as Francophones we see no issues with the state of the French language, why do you?
The answer to this one is very easy...
@resident evil
Deletewhy is a separatist french canadian "de facto racist and xenophobe" and not an irish separatist? you write i can't compare. now tell me why.
i'm not comparing plights, i'm challenging your bad judgement of quebec's own separatists.
"As for your previous comment comparing Louisiana to Quebec, once again, you miss the point."
i'm the one who was making a point. how can i miss it? you're making no sense here, mate.
"You think we want to see half of our background vanish? Hells no."
i'm happy to read this, mate.
"But if, as Francophones we see no issues with the state of the French language, why do you?"
probably because i read statistics and you don't.
@resident evil
Delete"You think we want to see half of our background vanish? Hells no."
how can you cheer aparatchik when he writes:
"If my great great grandchildren speak Kazakh and not a word of English, that's fine with me; I'll have lived my life and will be long dead."
seems to me that it's a higher priority for you not to interfere in appartchick's tentative to win over me than to defend your own position on this fundamental.
FROM ED
ReplyDeleteFrom Cutie "If the federal government and we federalists that reside here took the matter into our hands for a change"
From Ed, I'm sorry if being pragmatic destroys your fanciful ideas of Utopia but reality is the only way I can see. Here are some hard cold facts; In civilized countries governments are elected by the MAJORITY of people concerned. The MAJORITY of Canadians elected Harper's party to lead Canada and obey it's laws. A MAJORITY of Quebecers elected Mme. Marois. The PM will not intervene in Quebec until a democratically elected party such as Liberals or CAQ representing a MAJORITY of Quebecers asks him to. The PQ obviously never will. A minority of English Quebecers will have no effect in Ottawa. They have to say, "Talk to your democratically elected government. As for the future: being pragmatic (I hate the word but it is the only one I know that clearly represents the need for factual thinking.) both opposition parties have declared they will vote down BILL 14. It is only a matter of time before an election is called and once again the MAJORITY of Quebecers will have their say. At which time I'm sure the PQ will be gone (if we don't split the vote between the Liberals and people who haven't the patience to wait building unneeded parties such as the Equality Party.
We have managed to live with BILL 101 until last September when Marios and De Courcy formed a sister act dancing the ANTI- ANGLO TANGO with BILL 14. Well that dance is over because the strumpet sisters haven't a leg to dance on.
One last word on PARTITION. It will NEVER happen. Partitions have to be handled under the control of a master group. Canada cannot intervene between two groups of Canadian people. That would be like Montreal Canadian coach refereeing a game between Montreal and Toronto. In the meantime the PM harper could st least speak out which is why I call him a coward. He dreads the thought of having to face the press but burying his dread in the dance never helped the ostrich. It just leaves one in position for a kick in the ass. I will have more on this later. Ed
FROM ED
DeleteThe above should be , "burying his dread in the SAND never helped the ostrich" Ed
No Ed - nothing will ever change as long as people like yourself refuse to change your attitude about the way to get us out of this mess. No wonder the separatists walk all over us - we do nothing but complain but do not offer any solutions except the same old, same old. They must sip their beer and laugh their heads off at us daily. As long as we do not demand any assistance or solutions, none will be forthcoming until they get what they want - all of us being carted off to the new country, land, buildings and all while we sit here and watch it all unfold. The ROC is ready for a solution, the separatists are ready for a solution (the one we don't want) but we federalists that reside here and are the ones that will be most effected, are not ready for any solution except vote in the stupid liberal party again and again with no resolution in sight and further erosion to our rights and freedoms continuing. No wonder no one is will to assist us - we are too hopeless to bother. Watch what comes in the very near future while you sit back waiting to elect the same old party that condones our being bullied to death by the separatists. Bring on the Equality Party 2.0 and let's get some say in the future of our province damn it!
DeleteED wrote: "The MAJORITY of Canadians elected Harper's party to lead Canada and obey it's laws. A MAJORITY of Quebecers elected Mme. Marois."
DeleteWhen did ⅓ become a majority? The Conservatives got a majority of seats, not a majority of the vote. The PQ didn't even get that.
PQ begins a separation promotion campaign (think $$$):
ReplyDeletehttp://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/politique-quebecoise/201304/20/01-4642894-le-pq-lance-une-campagne-de-promotion-de-la-souverainete.php
is that wrong? why?
DeleteMake sure to have a look at 30-second PQ videos on YouTube and vote appropriately.
DeleteFROM ED
ReplyDeleteCUTIE - "Can no one else see this coming? We have to be ready to say fine - go if you wish but areas that vote to stay will do so! That is what's coming if they can get the militants whipped up to their usual frenzy." "And Ed how about he (the P.M.) goes down in history for "saving" Canada minus some territory - territory that we would retain as a corridor to keep the rest of Canada intact."
Why would the PM have to save the rest of Canada. The ROC has no problems. They are not complaining or in danger. neither is the MAJORITY of Quebecers.. Apparently, the only one that sees anything coming is you. You are the one trying to whip people up to a frenzy. Cutie, the words on Vigile are empty, meaningless politically. These are militant minded self declared pundits kicking dead horses. The PQ will not rise up to a MAJORITY again. The handwriting is on more walls than graffiti. Open your eyes and ears and hear the death rattle in the 'Song Of So Low man.'
Please give it a rest and let us rest too.
Also, partitions are not normally done by voters. The powers that be are usually outsiders like the U.N. When asked to superintend such a thing by governments involved. These people may be great worldly thinkers but are not locals and usually simply draw a line across the area and you pick your side and move there. That's when all hell breaks loose. When India was divided unsatisfied people moving from one part to another murdered a million hapless souls. The hatred in Ireland will never die. The Troubles as it was called caused the death of many innocent lives. In the fifties PM Pearson sent Canadian troops into Cypress to keep Greeks and Turks from killing each other. Peacekeeping forces were needed there until 2008. In Quebec, the FLQ only needs an attack on BILL 101 to start up. They are very practiced at murder and maiming as we all know. Ed
Yep and just the notion of a resurrection of the FLQ and we are all supposed to lie down to get kicked again. I repeat, no wonder no one is willing to help us - we can't even be strong enough to say that we will not allow any organization to make us go back to silence. Democracy is what SHOULD BE DONE HERE and the VOTES OF THE PEOPLE SHOULD MAKE THE CHOICE OF WHERE WE RESIDE - not the UN. The separatists always brag that they are democratic - let them prove it by partition - you keep bringing up genocide in other parts of the world that have nothing to do with democracy! The threat of violence is real here, no doubt about that, but backing off what is right and just, is a huge mistake. OMG - we will be bullied by this bunch of traitors without fail when we don't let democracy do it's job and partition this place. We don't let anyone 'draw a line' we draw it with our votes. We are not under a dictatorship - we are supposedly in a free world but we won't be for long unless we smarten up and start taking action instead of hiding under our beds. Perhaps you can't see trouble coming with the latest frenzy ads telling these crazies to separate for "pride" but I do not underestimate our enemy - you do. You are going to give it a rest only to find your ass in a sling before long Ed - I do not see the death keel coming as you do - I'm hoping that the francophone population can see trouble and want it to stop before it starts but I'm not banking on it reading some of the comments that come from them.
DeleteCutie, this is an article stating PM Harper supports partition. The link is dead but Yahoo archived the story.
Deletehttp://cf.groups.yahoo.com/group/Pour-le-Pays-du-Quebec/message/6125?var=1
Thank you Liam: Figured there might be something like that out there. We have to stop being such easy pushovers for these separatists or they will win in the end. I will repeat = we live in a democracy whereby the free world will not sit back and watch their fellow citizens be taken against their will to establish a new country in the middle of a democratic North America. They will not accept the loss of land and buildings without helping us. We have to have faith in our system of government whereby they have a duty and responsibility to protect us from such circumstances. Didn't know how to retrieve the story - perhaps you can tell me how to do that when you have the time. Thank you again - makes me feel better.
DeleteIt is just a regular webpage. Just the link in the story doesn't work.
DeleteFROM ED
DeleteI just looked back over the blog. You are the only one that advocates partition, Cutie. I'm not going to continue this pointless discussion. There will be no partition. there will be no referendum. There will be no PQ when we elect the Liberals. Ed
Yup - let's live again for the next 4 years and let this misery go on and on. That's the solution. And I'm not the only one that advocates partition Ed. You are the only one that keeps pushing the agenda of the liberals which is soft suicide of our rights and freedoms and we will still live election to election never solving a damn thing. Disgusting way to live our lives. I've already wasted 40 years doing that and do not intend to keep on doing it for the rest of my life if there is a way to solve it!
Delete@cutie003
Deleteanother way "to solve it" is to support quebec's independance and become a dynamic protagonist of the anglo community of the new country. no more wasting your life. think about it, mate.
Ma tante Pauline in another vomit smelling disinformation campaign:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjlvJXGaZ8k
Anyone need Gravol?
Can't any anglo left in quebekistan hear that elusive "last call" to leave?
Did you not even notice that there are triple the "dislikes" to that crap??
DeleteYes, be sure to go and vote "down" the witch. By the way, notice how she is complaining about quebec duplicating all the work that is done by the feds but neglects to add that the PQs are THE ONES THAT DEMANDED THAT THESE PORTFOLIOS BE TRANSFERRED TO THEM. Shows how much respect she has for her own followers - she's certain they won't remember that they demanded the duplication themselves!
DeletePauline la pas fine seems to forget that in a federal system (the one that our own French-Canadian fathers of Confederation demanded be implemented as such), we deliberately have a division of jurisdiction between the provinces and the federal government, occasionally specifying complementary roles for both sides.
DeleteThe idea being that concentrating too much power in the hands of one legislature is both inefficient and unwise. If "protecting our interests" as inhabitants of a province doesn't include a system of constitutionally mandated checks and balances, I don't know what does.
What could be better than to create two complementary levels of government and demand that they work together efficiently for our collective benefit rather than blindly entrust all power to a single monopolizing entity? The fathers of Confederation knew this, and for obvious reasons the separatists have a vested interest in glossing over this extremely important nuance.
Sure, bloat in the form of needless duplication should be eliminated. More should be done to properly explain why there are two ministries of revenue to the masses, for example, rather than inflame passions of the torch- and pitchfork-wielding medieval townspeople with talk of "redundant" government departments and imagined wall-to-wall duplication.
But let's forget all that and just blindly say Canada's evil and Quebec is good. We'll vote OUI figure it all out later. THAT's a more careful way to go. (sarcasm)
Very scary but that's what they do constantly propose - let's separate from Canada and trust us, (the separatists) we'll do what's best for all francophones later on. The "black hole" is staring us in the face daily. Can you just imagine even going to the bank to transfer money the day after a "yes" vote and they declare "independence" - That's when we'll all have to hide under our beds. I say again - we have to be prepared for the worst and we are far, far from it. I have to trust that the Canadian Government is not as blind as our population are to the devastation that awaits us. Everyone here will be long dead before this is straightened out.
DeleteFROM ED
ReplyDeleteFive good reasons to not leave Quebec.
1. The institutions we love are here.
2 Our homes are here.
3. Our families are here
4. The neighbours we care about are here.
5. You're not.
.Ed
The PQ is now publishing YouTube videos asking people to explain why they’re separatists (most of them look barely out of their teens). Guess what? As many people “dislike” these videos as “like” them. Have a look and feel free to vote for yourself as you wish:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=UUUhFy8q8gse395l9E2VZDAQ
Actually, now it's about triple the number of people who "dislike" their crappy videos. Yay!
DeleteBy the way Ed there is a whole movement in place to partition this province so please stop saying I'm the only one interested in getting this province back on it's feet while we get rid of the separatists:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.facebook.com/NewProvinceOfMontrealLaNouvelleProvinceDeMontreal?fref=ts
I want to join together with these groups and get us to hell out of Quebec. Offer me any other solution besides living election to election with the liberals taking away our rights little by little with the gracious PQ backing this up. Others see the end of it by partitioning also.
That group is a limited movement of the partition movement, though. Many others want to partition. The Liberals have never respected the english. The partition is the only option that will satisfy both, separatist and federalist. Remember partition is about making winners not losers. Also, last time 15 years separated both referendum, their will be another one soon enough, and this time francophones are angry and will vote yes. Mr. Harper will allow partition.
DeleteI totally agree Liam - I think Ed and some others are underestimating the enemy and that is a fatal error. A democratic way out for all of us - they get their stupid little country and we get to keep ours. A partition movement on behalf of the areas that want to leave quebec is the best way to go. I don't think Mr. Harper will have any other choice but to recognize the benefit of partition and will have to back us up - he has an obligation to keep at least some of quebec under federal control by democratic vote. After all, we fight for freedom in other parts of the world why not here on his own territory? He, or any other prime minister, would have no choice but to respect our rights. The only heads in the sand here are the people that don't see a crunch coming. The rejection of Bill 14 will set loose every young hothead in this province.
Delete@cutie003
Delete"He, or any other prime minister, would have no choice but to respect our rights."
what rights are you ranting about here, mate?
@liam
"...and this time francophones are angry and will vote yes."
so you don't believe the latest polls that give separation support at roughly 35%? or are you just trying to scare cutie003?
You're right, Cutie. Here is some statement of Quebec anti-partitionist crowd and explanation against. We need to break the lies attach with partition
Delete"Quebec is a nation, and therefore it has the collective right to be an independent nation-state, and also a collective right not to be partitioned or divided." First of all, Quebec is not a nation on a legal sense, only a personal decision. Many residents of Quebec don't consider themselves as Quebeckers. Harper stated that the motion's definition of Québécois relies on personal decisions to self-identify as Québécois, and therefore is a personal choice. Second of all, where is the documentation for this "collective right"?
"Partition is based on the undemocratic assumption that Quebec is not divisible as long as it is voting "No" to secession, but that it is divisible as soon as it votes Yes." Partition is designed to allow the english minority the right to remain within Canada. The Government of Quebec refused to consider partition although this shouldn't be used against the canadians that wish to remain in Canada.
"Partition is an impractical solution, or is being proposed insincerely even by its advocates." First of all, the regional difference within the regions of Quebec make it very possible for someone in Pontiac to be have closer ties to Ontario than with Quebec. The same could be said about Lower North Shore. The partition movement is not about insincerely by it's advocate but is a way to make both side content with the regional wishes.
"Partition is illegal due to municipalities being entities created by the Quebec National Assembly" First of all, municipalities are not created by the Quebec National Assembly, but are merely a regional representation of citizen. The decisions belong to each population within the municipality.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_Quebec
Yes Liam, for sure partition deserves much more attention that it is presently receiving. We always seem to be putting out fires and not tackling the real problems of getting rid of the threat of separation from the areas that are determined to remain within Canada. With proper political representation, we could have a platform that states something like "any more proposed amendments to Bill 101 will be met with a vote to demand separation from Quebec to live under the charter of Rights and Freedoms Clause in the Canadian Constitution". That way should the separatists try pushing through any other bill like 14 (and God only knows how that's going to turn out) we could then proceed with demanding that the Federal Government step in to hold referendums in Federal Districts so we can get rid of this threat once and for all in at least some of the Canadian areas in quebec. We definitely need a political voice to this end and hopefully we will get one soon.
DeleteBTW folks, I'm going to steer the ship away from the same old, same old for a moment to
ReplyDeletedraw your attention to a song I discovered yesterday and I think some of you might like it too:
http://bit.ly/Xxq05a
I can already see a few seppies griping that it's not Marie Mai.
Serena is a great singer. I always liked her.
DeleteInteresting that Earth Day activities in Montreal feature Mario Beaulieu's gang of Patriote flag-waving and pro-separatist picketing.
ReplyDeleteReading their press release with its well-worn claims about Quebec not signing the 1982 Constitution Act conveniently leaves out the fact that the real delineation between federal and provincial powers is spelled out in the 1867 British North America Act, now known as the 1867 Constitution Act, of which Quebec's fathers of Confederation were an instrumental part.