Friday, September 3, 2010

Militants Boost Demand for English

Every Christmas, toy manufacturers try their darnedest to create a buzz around one of their toys in the faint hope of creating a commercial run on the product.
Not often, but sometimes, they succeed and we are reminded by scenes of desperate parents lining up in front of department stores and then elbowing competitors, in the hope of securing a Cabbage Patch or a Tickle Me Elmo doll so that their child could have what others can't.

Wanting what we can't have is as human an emotion as love or hate, we just can't control it. Psychologists tell us that there are three contributing factors to the condition;
Heightened attention: When something is hard to get (or forbidden) you immediately pay more attention to it.  
Perceived scarcity: When something is scarce or in short supply, its perceived value increases. You want it more because you think other people also want it.

“Psychological Reactance”: People don’t like to be told they can’t have or can’t do something. It’s related to not wanting to be controlled by others, especially if the situation feels unfair or arbitrary.  From SELF-GROWTH.COM 
Last week, an ex-employee came to visit us at the office to reminisce and show off her three-year old daughter. She had gone off to start a family and was now pregnant with her second. During lunch she mentioned that she was sending her daughter to an English pre-kindergarten, in order to get her started on English, since later, the girl would be forced into French school, being the child of two francophones. I was a bit surprised to hear this news since the employee was unilingual and came from outside Montreal where English is not as big an issue.

It seems that her desire to give her child an English boost is not isolated. In fact, it has become somewhat of an obsession among Francophone parents, who want for their children, what the government refuses them.

It's a story as old as Adam and Eve and the relentless attraction of the 'forbidden fruit

The more that the Société Saint-Jean-Baptiste, the Mouvement Montréal français militate in favour of restricting access to English schools, the more demand there is for it among francophones!

Deliciously ironic eh?

And so Francophone parents who can afford it, are turning to private schools, which in spite of being forced to teach in French are making dramatic efforts to teach more English.
Of course this is completely opposite to what is happening in the French public schools, where the teaching of English is delayed until the third or fourth grade, ostensibly to avoid 'confusing' the children, but in actuality, an effort to retard their English skills.

This pro-active action by concerned parents to seek out English instruction has the government and French language militants even more determined to stamp it out. Already the government is looking to de-fund private schools. Recently, the education department fired the first shot to limit the spread of private schools by refusing funding to a newly built French private school, Collège Boisbriand, despite it being in complete legality. LINK (French)

Parents of French/English marriages are increasingly sending their kids to English schools so that they can retain their rights to English education later on in life, reversing a trend where most went to French schools before.
Parent who can't afford private schools are looking at part-time English courses and other option like sending their kids to summer "English Camps" which are becoming popular, of late.

A while back, I wrote about the Académie Lavalloise, a private French school in the Montreal suburb of Laval that was threatened with closure for teaching too much English. LINK
I daresay that the attack by the education department made the parents even more determined to save their school and even more convinced of the importance of English. Despite the demand to reduce English instruction, the school will find a way, perhaps by extending the school day to teach English outside the normal curriculum or some other device. Where there's a will-there's a way, and there certainly appears to be a willingness by parents to fight for their children's future.

If parents are willing to line up and battle crowds for a Christmas toy, what lengths will they go to insure that their children are outfitted with the best educational skills, with English as a keystone?

Quite far, I suppose....

So thank you to Louis Prefontaine,  Mario Beaulieu and all the other shrieking fanatics who are warning francophones of the dire consequences of learning English. Thanks for driving Quebeckers towards the forbidden fruit of English and keep up the good work.
Their monotonous harangues fit neatly the above-mentioned formula for getting people to crave what they cannot have!

We anglos couldn't have done a better job promoting our language.

And so English universities and Cegeps(colleges) are full to over-capacity with temporary classrooms required to handle the overflow.  Dawson college has rented out extra classroom space in the Pepsi Forum (the old Montreal Forum of Canadiens fame) and John Abbott College has announced a $30 million expansion out in the west island.

While the numbers of Quebec Anglos remains stable,  English cegep enrolment is up by about 15% this year, the increase coming from an unprecedented demand by francophones and allophones. Pressure on enrolment has been so high that entrance requirements have been stiffened and many decent students have been disappointed that they haven't made the cut. Ironically, some English students are being denied entry in favour of better performing francophones!  LINK 

Sadly over, on the French side, schools remain underpopulated and in consequence, entrance standards have fallen so low that you can actually get into cegep without finishing high school.
Yup......you really can. LINK (French)

What is the reaction to all this by French language militants?

What else, a demand that a law be imposed, refusing entrance to non-anglophones to English cegeps, this despite the fact that two-thirds of Quebeckers believe in free choice when it comes to the language of education.

How would the public react to any such law?
Likely by building more private cegeps that the government can't control. Already Quebec has a robust network of private colleges that cater to technical students. Schools like the Herzing Institute boast excellent results and an out-placement service that provides good jobs to over ninety percent of graduates.

If students have to pay for an English Cegep education, they will, it's only two years and should cost under twenty thousand dollars, a fee easy to recoup by the benefits of the higher earning power of those who are bilingual. Studies show that bilingual Quebeckers earn about 7.5% more than those who speak just French or English.

English remains the world's most powerful social force and banning Quebeckers from embracing it, is an effort destined to the same success as the Berlin wall.

Perhaps the Quebec education department should make a better effort to teach French than they are presently doing and stop worrying so much about English.

Here's a scene on the importance of teaching proper every day use of French as seen in the comedy TV show, "Les Bougon.

video

80 comments:

  1. Mississauga Guy said...

    I may be going against the current here, but while the English CEGEPs are expanding, they should still be taking English kids with substandard grades before taking French kids. I think the Quebec Government, the SSJB and all those language zealots ought to impose French on students who studied in French schools and forbid them from going to English CEGEPs.

    I don't want the English kids left out THEIR CEGEPs because of French applicants. That just sticks it to our minority population who are already treated as second class citizens. After all English school applicants are processed, every last one of them, THEN make room next for allophones, and finally Québécois pur laine, if there are any spaces left.

    On second thought, NO! NON! LOH! NYET! NEIN! The pur lainers absolutely positively must do everything to keep everything English out of their lives lest the infiltration will destroy their language and culture. Live by the sword...die by the sword! No English CEGEP for les Francophones de veuille souches! C'est tout!

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  2. "English remains the world's most powerful social force and banning Quebeckers from embracing it, is an effort destined to the same success as the Berlin wall."

    Or Israel's wall?

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  3. Re: “what lengths will they go to insure that their children are outfitted with the best educational skills, with English as a keystone?” Quite far, I suppose....

    I'll have you know, it will be over my dead body, before the Quebec government will force me to send my child to go to French school. They have no right to use our children as pawns. I don't care who the hell they think they are, the basic premise of the French above all else is wrong and it will not succeed. Quebec’s paranoid, grandiose and delusional thinking gets in their own way and weighs down on the Quebec population, the economic burdens of an uncertain future by obstructing their children’s opportunities to learn English in an era of information technology, knowledge economy, global, local & social networks etc. The youth today are not stupid and they will not be controlled. They have access to the internet to see for themselves that there is a whole world out there and they sure as hell don’t have to stay in the dictatorship of Quebec. Having pride in our culture and having our lives totally controlled by thoughtless bureaucrats is a whole different ball game. Francophone parents want choice for their children. It is a new era, it is no longer 1970. It is time for Quebec to wake up and move into the new millennium. The world is round and the earth does not revolve around Quebec.

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  4. “2/3 Quebecers want choice of education” and we have 1/3 French Language militant bullies controlling and coercing the majority 2/3 of the Quebec population, while they manipulate the rest of Canada with their treasonous attempts to destroy Canada with their hollow threats to separate. Let the 1/3 militants separate to live in their French utopia on some little Boucherville Island, lock them up for treason or send them back to France.

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  5. @Anonymous 9:58PM

    Good point. There is something rotten in this province. 2/3 of Francophones proclaim their desire for free choice in language of instruction, but they seem to be ready to vote in a party whose education “expert” (and possibly the future minister of education of Quebec) is endorsing extension of 101 the cegeps and daycares.

    Many Francophones may understand that the linguistic reality may not correspond 100% with the official line (French is all that's needed) peddled by their gouvernemaman, thus many of them are vying for the "forbidden fruit" that is English instruction. But at the same time the same people have been exposed to 40 years of relentless nationalist propaganda dressed in a cloak of social science by UQAM pseudo-scientists. Quebecois people are just really confused. Plain and simple. They are simply trapped in the contradictions that have been served to them for over 40 years by manipulative and exploitive politicians.

    These politicians are still around. And why not? Their bullshit still sells. Scare tactics work, just like they worked in the US after the 9/11. So why not ride the wave of people's credulity? Why not take advantage of it, especially if it guarantees you a nice federal pension?

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  6. Y'a 2 choses qui cloche dans votre affirmation:

    Votre logique ne tient pas car 2/3 (minimum) des Québécois vont voter pour le Bloc Québécois et le Parti Québécois.Deux partis qui ne sont pas reconnus comme étant particulièrement en faveur de l'éducation en anglais,enfin,je crois.

    De plus vous affirmez que 2 millions de Québécois dirigent le canada.Que doit-on en déduire?

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  7. "If students have to pay for an English Cegep education, they will, it's only two years and should cost under twenty thousand dollars..."

    De quelle planète êtes-vous?Ces étudiants auront-ils accès au système de prêts et bourses du Québec?

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  8. T'il the ministry is run by Nazi-esque (ohh he said Nazi..Quebecois basher!!!) bureaucrats (to wit: Cherie Le Blanc's story: http://tinyurl.com/2aqwlqy ) there will forever be problems for both anglo and francophone parents wanting the BEST for their children. Remember QC's motto: Aim low, 'stie. ;)

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  9. For my part, I think English living in Québec talk too much about languages. In particular about french and english languages. What Québécois want or don't want, or what they are or what they are not, is not in fact their business. After all, English living in Québec are only foreigners squatting our national land.

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  10. Seems rather foolish to me that if the overwhelming majority (yes, these days 66% would be overwhelming) wish choice of education in either language; the government of Quebec is simply not listening to the people's wishes.

    This is quite anti-democratic. I suppose, however, that if the government was to listen to the people that many of the language zealots in the PQ and BQ would be out of a job.

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  11. "After all, English living in Québec are only foreigners squatting our national land."

    How inclusive you are! The english pay taxes and have been in Quebec for many 100's of years. I doubt they would be considered squatters.

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  12. "English living in Québec are only foreigners squatting our national land."

    The French living in Quebec are only foreigners squatting on Native land...it is Indian and Inuit land!

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  13. "There is something rotten in this province."

    Effectivement.Devinez-quoi ou qui.

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  14. Mississauga Guy said...

    1 of 2

    Most of the above comments are so out of whack, it's beyond the ridiculous! Governments, especially elected ones, govern the way they do because the population WANTS policy that way.

    Am I missing something here? Don't ALL political parties hold periodic conventions on party policy? Don't card-carrying members have the right to submit policies that are voted upon? Has everybody above lost perspective of how democracy works?

    If 2/3 of the Francophone population want enrichment of English in their children's school curriculum, are they letting their MNAs know about it? I cannot believe 125 MNAs control over 7 million people outright, and if none of the parties represent what the people want, why don't they organize and form a political party that does?

    I personally don't believe Quebec has its students at heart. The fact 40% of boys drop out in the French system should have sent alarm bells ringing and parents' hands wringing. Since about 90% of children attend French schools, this should be seen as downright scary! A genuine nightmare!

    Skill sets for jobs have been becoming ever increasingly demanding. Being an auto mechanic is no longer for the Gomer Pyle grease monkeys of yesteryear! Motor vehicles are sophisticated machines running on the latest technology, and the same goes for most machinery today. My own 15-year-old son is teaching ME a lot about technology! He has all the gadgets--I try to avoid them like the plague!

    Back to the main topic. My stepdaughter finished her schooling in Quebec just over a year ago. She had extreme difficulty in school, but she would not be held back a grade in her elementary school. Her high school held her back one year, and she was still pencil whipped through school whether she was prepared for the working world or not. I figure being in an English school, the Quebec Government doesn't incorporate holdbacks into their budgets. Seems like they don't do it for anyone, just pencil whip them through, and the experience for the child becomes a lost cause.

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  15. Mississauga Guy also said...

    2 of 2

    Now CEGEPs are underpopulated (the French ones) and they're taking bodies for the simple reason they are heavily subsidized for each applicant they accept. Each lost applicant is lost money. Small wonder they're accepting applicants who have not graduated from high school.

    I attended Vanier College in the mid- 1970s. To me, it was two years of suspended animation. Except for the maths I took, and the introductory accounting and economics courses that I needed for university, CEGEP was a joke! CEGEP was a cinch compared to high school and especially to university, and I was an average academic!

    An education expert came on radio once while I was living in Montreal and said CEGEP was created to give the French kids two years to catch up to the English kids. Considering what a joke CEGEP was, and so said most of my cohorts, I can't dismiss that educator's conclusions.

    I had also heard on phone-in shows on radio way back in my Montreal days from English speaking people with their kids attending French schools that a lot of what is taught in Quebec is anti-Canada anti-English propaganda. A top echelon history teacher I know who taught for 36 years told me in the last ten years the Quebec portion of the history curriculum in the English system where he taught was biased propaganda. Since provincial exams are uniform, this therefore went for everyone.

    If the parents aren't going to organize policy to avoid their kids' skulls being filled with mush and hatred, the status quo is what they have to look forward to, and it's not heading in a very positive direction. Actually, it can be labelled another reason why Quebec should be allowed to secede from Canada. Too many unskilled workers will drag our economy and well-being down and many will remain unemployed for long periods of time if not permanently.

    Based on the above, Quebec is not investing wisely in its future human resources. They have become increasingly dependent on the federal system. Why should the rest of us pick up THEIR tab for THEIR neglect and bellyaching over the last half century? Enough is enough!

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  16. To Anonymous @ 7:30AM:

    Leave your anti-Sematism and Israel's wall out of the discussion. It has NO place in this conversation for your blatant bigotry. The Israeli wall is to keep Hamas and its like out. The wall does not imprison Israelis, or for that matter, anyone living on the other side of that wall either.

    The Berlin wall compares because it was built by the Eastern communists as a physical barrier to prevent their own people from leaving. Language legislation in is a psychological barrier omitting and limiting English in Quebec, and it is meant to imprison those who don't, won't or can't learn English and can only communicate in French.

    Now do you understand where the comparison ends, bigot?

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  17. "The French living in Quebec are only foreigners squatting on Native land...it is Indian and Inuit land! "

    Damn good point!!!!

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  18. Je dois avouer qu'un de mes plus grands plaisirs ( il est évident que je ne suis pas seul) est de voir un importé ou un E.Gratton se voir refuser l'accès au système d'éducation anglo.

    Je collectionne tous les aricles écrits sur le sujet que je conserve précieusement.
    Dites-moi,est-ce un peché monsieur le curé d'avoir une admiration aussi grande pour la loi?

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  19. "wit: Cherie Le Blanc's story: http://tinyurl.com/2aqwlqy ) there will forever be problems for both anglo and francophone parents wanting the BEST for their children..."

    Quoi?Ces individus n'étaient pas au courant que les Québécois ont voté des lois qui interdisent ce genre de comportement hypocrite?Pauvres petits parents,ils devront nous quitter pour l'ontario,comme c'est dommage.

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  20. @Anonymous, 4:11PM
    Pauvre ignoble. Est-tu de la même parenté que ce bureaucrate qui, même avec documents pédagogique et psychologique, refuse au petit l'école anglaise?
    Si tu aurait lu l'article cette dame s'en retourne au Delaware pour que son enfant reçois un éducation qui tient compte de son handicap. Elle fait 1000x plus qu'un parent de ta classe pour que son enfant ai toutes les chances pour réussir. Contente-toi avec la médiocrité sociale du Québec.
    Quebec motto: Aim low, 'stie!

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  21. "The Israeli wall is to keep Hamas and its like out. "

    It's a bit more than that.

    "Israel is not a state with an army. It's an army with a state"
    -Noam Chomsky

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  22. "...can't learn English and can only communicate in French..."

    Are you really sure?Almost all of the French people on this blog can read,write and speak to you in your language and never went to an english school.Et vous,pouvez-vous en dire autant en Français? No? What a surprise!

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  23. "...Si tu aurait lu l'article cette dame s'en retourne au Delaware..."

    Au Delaware? C'est encore mieux alors.

    Aim low, 'stie! and i'm proud barnak!

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  24. Frank, en 1995 on visait haut. En effet, 61% des Francophones ont dit Oui au pays. Mais on a été ramené vers le bas à cause de l'argent et du vote ethnique (anglo et allo). Mais inquiète toi pas, la prochaine fois sera la bonne et lorsque le Québec sera un pays, vous allez être ben en ostie!

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  25. "Language legislation in is a psychological barrier "

    "...omitting and limiting English in Quebec..."

    Vous vous sentez emprisonné par un mur linguistique psychologique?Pourtant on vous encourage joyeusement a quitter le Québec depuis 40 ans.Y'a quelque chose qui vous échappe.

    Depuis quand êtes-vous limités?Vous avez accès a tous les services dans votre langue et personne ne vous empêche de fréquenter nos commerces.

    Vous pouvez même parler anglais dans les endroits publiques.Vous êtes comme ces enfants gatés qui demandent toujours plus sans n'être jamais satisfaits.

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  26. @Anonymous 5:03PM

    "..la prochaine fois sera la bonne et lorsque le Québec sera un pays, vous allez être ben en ostie!"
    Ouin, en culottes courte et chemise brune tu nous assuras la convivialité.
    Sieg Heil, mon grand

    Québec motto: Aim low, 'stie

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  27. "Québec motto: Aim low, 'stie "


    Faux! C'est: Think big s'tie! (Elvis Gratton)

    Ce petit Québécois fédéraliste qui rêvait de devenir un amarrricain ou au moins,un canadian
    C'est moins glamour mais ça parle anglais.

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  28. "There is something rotten in this province."

    Effectivement.Devinez-quoi ou qui.

    Un indice: Ils ont de grandes oreilles et la tête carrée.Ils portent des bas bruns dans leurs sandales.Leur population est concentrée dans l'ouest...

    ...Tic tic tic tic tic tic....Oui!Bravo c'est ça!Vous gagnez ce magnifique manuel sur l'histoire du Québec.

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  29. "The world is round and the earth does not revolve around Quebec."

    Hmmmm,are you really sure?

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  30. "Pauvre ignoble. Est-tu de la même parenté que ce bureaucrate qui, même avec documents pédagogique et psychologique, refuse au petit l'école anglaise?"

    Oui.

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  31. Mississauga Guy to Anon @ 5:03PM:

    Best o'luck tuh ya laddies--luck o' the Irish!

    In 1995 I was relieved the No side won. Now...I don't give a damn. Most of the people nearest and dearest to me from there are gone, either having moved out or died. I think Canada, yes, as a smaller country, would do much, much better without the $10+ that leaks from Canada to your citizenry of ingrates. We can use it ourselves to better those who want to remain in Canada.

    Quebec's population is aging, and getting deeper and deeper in debt. The latest increases in your health care fees are just the beginning. You're already the sixth most indebted jurisdiction in the world, and with so many unskilled workers and the number of dropouts going on welfare every year, you're all going to drown, or go through debt hell like in Zimbabwe and Greece. YOU ALL DESERVE IT!

    That RREGOP pension your civil servants and parapublic workers get will be butchered, believe me. You won't be able to repatriate your federal public servants because most of it is duplication, and their jobs will be redundant.

    Your subsidized hydro bills will shoot through the roof because a lot of Hydro Quebec's debt is in foreign currency and owned by foreigners! $7-a-day daycare? Kiss THAT goodbye! Cheap university tuition fees? Nuh-uh!

    Over one million Quebecers are now on the dole! How is that going to play out when your currency isn't worth 10 cents Canadian?

    Good luck in your separation bid--YOU'RE GOING TO NEED IT--BIG TIME!

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  32. "Over one million Quebecers are now on the dole! How is that going to play out when your currency isn't worth 10 cents Canadian?"

    Nous serons très pauvres,nous ne sur-consommerons plus,pollurons moins et serons très fiers d'avoir enfin notre pays a nous.Mieux vaut être pauvres debout que riches et a genoux.

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  33. "Nous serons très pauvres"
    Oui, pour certaine, juste comme mantenaut mais tres mal.

    "serons très fiers d'avoir enfin notre pays a nous"

    Avec pas de l'argent ou chance du successe.

    "Mieux vaut être pauvres debout que riches et a genoux."

    Il sera comme vous dis, pauvre et mauvais dans vos republique banane. Bonne chanc et bien sortie a vous.

    Au revoir mon petit l'homme avec votre langue faiblesseur.

    :):)

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  34. Monsieur le blogueur anonyme (avec vos propos radicaux, l'anonymat est peut-être votre meilleure chance), votre « logique » ne tient pas du tout.

    1) Le « libre-choix » n'existe pas tant qu'il y a un sur-financement des écoles anglaises. Il y a 5,4% d'anglophones de langue maternelle nés au Québec, mais on finance les cégeps anglophones à 19% et les universités anglophones à 27%. Ramenons ce financement à un niveau acceptable et équitable, et on verra ce que sera l'attrait des écoles anglaises dans un contexte où les institutions anglaises ne sont plus sur-financées.

    2) Le sondage de The Gazette était malhonnête. D'autres sondages ont démontré qu'en modifiant la question et en parlant de la nécessité de protéger le français, les chiffres étaient inversés. En fait, un sondage a démontré que près de 90% des Québécois étaient attachés à la Loi 101.

    3) L'attrait de l'anglais est le symptôme et non la solution. Plus notre société s'anglicise, il est normal que les gens, individuellement, se tournent vers l'anglais. C'est le processus premier qui mène vers l'assimilation. Évidemment, je sais que cela vous irrite qu'un petit peuple de moins de 2% de l'Amérique du Nord veuille survivre et vous aimeriez bien nous éliminer, mais malgré les cicatrices de 250 ans d'aliénation, beaucoup de Québécois espèrent des mesures pour ne plus avoir besoin de parler une langue étrangère au Québec.

    4) Si vous n'aimez pas notre nation francophone, pourquoi vous acharnez-vous à demeurer ici? Le Québec est français; si vous ne voulez pas vivre en français et contribuer à enrichir l'humanité de la présence de notre peuple, si vous désirez vivre votre anglomanie, pourquoi ne déménagez-vous pas en Ontario ou ailleurs?

    Bonne journée, Monsieur l'anonyme qui crache dans la soupe bien caché derrière son ordinateur.

    Et qui, surtout, fait sciemment attention de ne pas révéler les faits, surtout celui du sur-financement des écoles anglophones...

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  35. '' Notre mirage terrible: Ce que nous prenons pour de l'internationalisme, c'est en fait de l'impérialisme américain.'' Gaston Miron

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  36. "I personally don't believe Quebec has its students at heart."

    Le problème c'est que vous partez sur une prémisse totalement absurde.Soit d'associer réussite scolaire et sociale a l'apprentissage de l'anglais.Le décrochage scolaire n'a aucun rapport avec la langue.

    C'est un problème administratif comme celui du système de santé.Ce n'est pas les ressources finaciéres qui sont déficientes mais bien les ressources humaines et une admistration équilibrée : Moins de fonctionnaires et plus de gens spécialisés sur le terrain.

    Associer la réussite sociale des Québécois a l'acquisition de l'anglais est d'une malhonnêteté
    intellectuelle digne des pires "bigots" anglos.

    Dommage pour vous que cette affirmation qui remonte loin dans le temps et qui avait comme but d'assimiler les colons,ne fonctionne tout simplement plus.Vous en avez la preuve auourdh'hui avec les intentions de votes des VRAIS Québécois.

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  37. Louis a raison.Pourquoi un blogueur digne de ce nom tient-il tant a l'anonymat?

    Quand on est vraiment convaincu de ses idées et que celles-ci sont vraiment utiles pour le bien de sa nation,pourquoi se cacher comme un individu malhonnête ?

    Tant qu'a faire,si notre société est tellement injuste et anti démocratique,pourquoi ne pas alerter les médias?La Gazette serait le premier a vous écoutez et a publier votre photo.

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  38. La raison est simple, 11:23 AM. C'est que les Anglais du Québec savent qu'ils ont tort. Qu'ils vivent sur une terre qui n'est pas à eux. Que leur présence chez nous est illégitime puisque due à une conquête militaire.

    De fait, les seuls arguments qu'ils peuvent invoquer sont le racisme, l'intolérance, le repli identitaire et la restriction à la liberté de choix. Là s'arrête leur argumentation. Leur position s'apparente d'ailleurs à celle des fédéralistes qui n'ont rien d'autre à offrir aux Québécois que la soumission et la marginalisation.

    Par ailleurs, ce que je vois de la "communauté" anglaise de Montréal est que d'un point de vue qualitatif elle n'est plus ce qu'elle était jadis. En effet, le caractère anglais de cette "communauté" a disparu avec l'exode massif de la fin des années 1970. La langue anglaise est demeurée certes, mais ceux qui sont restés et ceux qui se sont collés à eux depuis, forment davantage un groupe composé de mauviettes que de gens capables de se tenir debout.

    La "communauté" anglaise de Montréal en est rendue au stade d'aller braillé comme un bébé aux Nations Unies. Comme elle l'a fait lors du débat sur l'affichage commercial à la fin des années 1980. Et comme elle l'a fait encore récemment avec la lettre que les "leaders" de la "communauté" ont fait parvenir aux médias québécois l'automne dernier dans le cadre du projet de loi 103 sur les écoles passerelles. Lettre qui avançait comme principal argument, sous un ton plaintif, que de permettre de telles écoles amènerait un peu d'oxygène à une communauté exsangue.

    Mon oeil une communauté exsangue. Les statistiques démontrent en fait que ça va trop bien pour eux. Je te le dis, 11:23 AM, une vraie gang de braillards. Souhaitons que nous soyons capables de poser les bons gestes, car il serait relativement facile de pouvoir enfin se débarrasser de cette "communauté".

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  39. Mr. Prefontaine, welcome to No Dogs.

    Before I respond to your statements, I would like to ask. Will you post my comment in your blog if I write it in English? As you can see that in this blog English and French are accepted. Maybe any other language if there are at least two persons using it.

    1. I do not see the correlation between government financing and the demographics of the students. I do believe that the provincial governments gives a balanced amount of funding between English and French universities, commensurate to the size of their student bodies. In terms of universities, I know for sure that McGill receives less per student than UdeM from MELS, even though the ratio of French students in McGill is bigger than English students in UdeM. McGill, however, gets far more in private funding and research contracts, and international students.

    2. Mr. Beaulieu also claims the same thing. However, I never see that poll. Can you give us a link of such poll, including the one indicating that 90% of Quebec population (not only Francophones) support Bill 101? Also a little elaboration on why you stated that the Gazette's poll is dishonest will be helpful.

    3. From the conquest of the Plains of Abraham in 1759 until the legislation of Bill 101 in 1977 the Francophones survive. And that begs the question why Bill 101 is necessary. You yourself state that fact of the first sentence. So why the eradication of English education for Francophone citizens necessary? Francophones had been living with the choice to go to English school for 200 years.

    4. There are a number of Francophone citizens out of Quebec who made complaints that their governments did not provide services in French. On the top of my head, there was one in Burnaby BC complaining about municipal flyers not available in French and another one in Alberta for being ticketed in English. Would it be fair if we told them, "If you do not like English services in BC/Alberta, just move yourself to Qubec!"?

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  40. Pour un Québec libre: un manifeste pour indépendantistes et fédéralistes

    Ce n’est pas parce qu’on s’appelle Tremblay ou qu’on parle plus souvent français que la terre du Québec nous appartient. N’oublions qu’avant que les anglais soient venus nous conquérir, c’est nous qui avions conquis les amérindiens. Aujourd’hui ils vivent dans leurs réserves et la plupart du temps agitent peu. Il ne revient pas à nous de juger sur le droit ou non d’une communauté d’anglos saine et viable d’exister; leur présence chez nous n’est pas plus ou moins illégitime que la nôtre sur cette terre non pas française mais amérindienne. Nous pré-datons les anglais ici d’environ un siècle. Pour un continent qu’on a volé il y a environ cinq siècles, j’appellerais ça match nul.
    De toute façon, Rhodésiens de Westmount ou participants à part entière dans les rouages de notre province, il ne revient pas à nous francophones de définir le degré auquel les anglos ont droit ou non de s’immiscer. Rappelons-nous qu’avant le tournant pervers qu’a pris la révolution tranquille, c’est eux qui contrôlaient tout; ayons au moins la gentillesse de leur laisser le temps de profiter de leurs vacances pourtant bien méritées.

    Vouloir sauvegarder notre patrimoine, c’est une chose. Nous comporter en gang de colons arriérés xénophobes en est une autre. Le Québec est majoritairement francophone et le demeurera jusqu’à nouvel ordre. En même temps, les québécois quant à eux sont de plus en plus bilingues (et plus souvent multilingues); un pourcentage et un effectif qui ne cesse d’augmenter d’année en année. Du monde qui peut s’exprimer en plusieurs langues et qui le fait non seulement couramment mais sans accent dans chacune de ses idiomes met les larmes aux yeux des bluenecks les plus reculés, mais pas moi. Notre culture ne se divise pas; elle continue à se partager et à se frotter contre celle des nouveaux arrivés et continue à s’intégrer à la culture anglo-américaine dominante de ce continent. Et Dieu merci.

    (1/2)

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  41. N’oubliez pas que votre vœu pieux d’indépendance ça peut aussi être une lame à deux tranchants qui pourrait facilement vous déstabiliser davantage. Advenant un OUI, on constaterait que près de la moitié du nouveau « pays » n’en voudra pas de vos chimères. Ce n’est pas dans un climat d’autant d’amertume qu’on fonde un pays. Ce n’est certainement pas avec tant d’opposition que ça devrait se faire non plus. Vous n’avez pas le luxe de faire comme les nazis et exterminer les indésirables. Votre pays serait un flop tout comme la structure sociale de l’état-providence qui s’écroulerait.

    Mais revenons à nos moutons.

    Il est possible d’être multilingue et multiculturel. J’en suis la preuve. Il est également possible d’être réfractaire et inutilement alarmiste. Vous en êtes la preuve. Il y a une classe montante parmi nous qui se prépare à vous détrôner. À la fois francophone, anglophone, et allophone. Attendez un autre 20 à 30 ans. Marocains, Haïtiens, Hispaniques, Italiens, Juifs et autres collaborateurs continuons tranquillement à préparer le terrain et tout se déroule parfaitement. Nous, nouveaux québécois et canadiens par excellence ferons en sorte que cette chère patrie sera enfin libérée de vos vieux discours linguistiques et politiques polarisants. Vous ferez bien d’accepter que ceux-ci tirent à leur fin. Vous et vos idées réfractaires aurez encore moins de place dans le Québec nouveau qui se prépare. Par un très heureux hasard, vos revendications ont créé l’élite même qui vous dominera demain. Nous vous en remercions et en profitons pour vous informer que votre propagande haineuse et votre règne de terreur tire à sa fin. Vous vous assimilerez à notre philosophie heureusement beaucoup plus inspirante. Inutile de multiplier vos efforts. Ridicule d’aller piqueter devant un « Café Starbucks Coffee » ou devant un magasin dont le nom se termine en « ’s ». Allez donc vous éduquer. Maitrisez comme il faut le français, puis ensuite apprenez l’anglais, le chinois, l’arabe, l’espagnol tant qu’à y être; ça vous sera utile. Dissolvez enfin vos groupes de pression quétaines et mettez-vous à faire du vrai travail. N’allez pas vous inventer d’autres enjeux socio-écono-culturels; on en a déjà assez, merci.
    Et si ça choque votre fibre nationaliste, tant mieux. Vous me remercierez quand vous vous joindrez enfin à la race humaine.

    Rappelez-vous qu’on n’est pas les vrais ennemis du Québec. On a tous de vrais défis économiques et organisationnels à surmonter, et il vaut mieux le faire dans l’unité, dans la tolérance, et dans l’acceptation d’une grande diversité, qu’elle soit linguistique, politique ou autre. Il ne revient pas à personne de baliser ce que veut dire le mot ouverture. Allons-y de façon pragmatique; vous allez voir que ce ne sera vraiment pas si pire.

    Fin de manifeste.

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  42. Gosh what awful french..must be Quebecois :)

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  43. Louis P.:” Et qui, surtout, fait sciemment attention de ne pas révéler les faits, surtout celui du sur-financement des écoles anglophones... “

    Actually, Editor of No Dogs wrote an excellent piece back in March that deals with the myth of “sur-financement” of English universities in Montreal.

    In the post, Editor outlined a simple truth – the financing is proportional to ATTRENDANCE. Because despite being in Quebec (which is French on paper), Montreal is also in North America, in Canada, and on the planet Earth (on which English is the lingua franca and the language of international business). The demand for English university instruction is therefore enormous in Montreal NOT ONLY amongst the Anglophones (8% of Quebec population), but also amongst Allophones (12%) and … wait for it…you guessed it…the Francophones themselves (80% of Quebec demographic).

    So here it is. The facts revealed, as per request.

    You can read the whole piece here:
    http://nodogsoranglophones.blogspot.com/2010/02/myth-of-overfinancing-of-english.html

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  44. Hey Editor, I wrote a rebuttal for Mr. Prefontaine. Where does it go?

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  45. Dear Troy,
    Your comment ended up in the SPAM folder, don't ask me why.... Anyways it has been posted as you can see, sorry for the delay as I was out for dinner and must obey the 'house' rule about no mobile blogging during social events.........

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  46. "Apparatchik said..."

    You are both boring and long winded with you melting pot philosphy and your belief in the harmoney between the two solitudes.

    When will you every get it through your ideological head that the two dislike each other and its not likely going to change anytime soon

    Sorry to be cynical but that is how it is and will remain for a longue temps. (where are their bigotted language lois in Canada...pick one you will be right)

    Juste regarde a Quebec. from an anglo and western perspective. Just a group of people who live on other peoples money but are critical of those they receive the welfare.

    When Quebec ( et le quebecois) start contributing to the country as a whole then perhaps your arguments will have some perspective. Presently, Quebec is just a parasite.

    As far as your language issues are concerned they are of no merit as you well know, at least at this time, the lingua franca of the world. Contre le anglophiacs du Quebec who make up their own agenda not based upon facts.

    Your view of Utopia is really too large.

    Better Quebec separate from Canada and let Canada become what is should be, which would be a truly great country and not some third world banana repblic.

    Canada can only be a great country if Quebec leaves confederation and thus liberates Canada from the ball and chain which has been attached for many years.

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  47. @ 1:33 AM

    I think you’ve missed my point entirely. Maybe you just don’t like my particular brand of schadenfreude. I would have suggested running my last post through Google Translate but I can see what horrendous rendering is done to those particular paragraphs. Maybe the RCMP shoulda double-checked the way I did ;-)

    I DON’T believe in a melting pot where everybody surrenders their identity in favor of some generic mass-produced store brand.

    I just don’t get why some people, both franco and anglo, almost purposefully doesn’t get how beneficial it is to be fluent in multiple languages. I don’t think it’s a pipe dream to be bilingual; it might be a permanent work in progress, but it really doesn’t require you to bend over backwards, especially in Montreal. I owe the hugest debt of gratitude to my hardworking, becoming-bilingual parents (okay so they took Trudeau literally...), who instilled that desire and respect in me from the time I was a very young (... and look how that turned out!).

    Do we really have the option of remaining monolinguals or superficial bilinguals? This is a catty argument advanced by some in both language camps who need to feel good about their shortcomings. Sure, you can live ONLY in one language. But dammit look at how much you’re missing. In a supposedly bilingual country to boot!

    I get it that SOME segments within the two solitudes dislike each other, but what you need to get through YOUR thick head is that to most of us in this “bilingual” country for whom language ISN’T a barrier, those dislikes appear petty and childish. For every one episodic “language scandal” you see in the news (whether on that particular day the anglo or franco community is feeling snubbed), there are tens of thousands of anglos and francos in this town (like me) who kind of like the idea that the other exists, and enjoy the easy accessibility of both cultures. I ASSURE you we’re not on mood enhancing or mind altering substances. The only thing of substance we’re running on (and have been since we were born) is the idea that the two solitudes CAN coexist and work toward some utopic betterment for our province and for our country. Our often increasingly mixed-marriage children, some of whom DON’T have a free choice in what language school to attend because of the French Language Charter, are nonetheless growing up in bilingual and often multilingual environments and don’t have a clue why some of those “other” neighborhood kids just don’t get it.

    Alas, history seems doomed to repeat itself.

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  48. You wrote: "Of course this is completely opposite to what is happening in the French public schools, where the teaching of English is delayed until the third or fourth grade."

    S. 22 of the Basic school regulation for Elementary Schools Cycle 1 (Grades 1 and 2) says otherwise.

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  49. " I would have suggested running my last post through Google Translate but I can see what horrendous rendering "

    Don't really need that but thanks for the suggestion.

    "I DON’T believe in a melting pot"

    Read what you wrote...melting pot with two or more languages I would think. You know the harmony of the community etc.

    "I just don’t get why some people, both franco and anglo, almost purposefully doesn’t get how beneficial it is to be fluent in multiple languages"
    First and foremost, there is of course benefits to being bilingual or trilingual. No argument from me about this. But, when you have enforced bilingualism as we have in Canada then it is not a voluntary choice and I fully understand those in the civil service who are passed over for promotions or jobs on the basis of two languages, where, in many cases it is simply not a practical requirement. NO to FORCED bilingalism. Trudeau was f'ked in the head with the OLA. Has only created resentment on the part of the anglo majority of Canada. Of course it created a lot of jobs for people from Quebec who are fortunate in being exposed to both language groups. Not so fortunate for others in other geographical areas of Canada.

    As I said, both solitudes, don't really have any respect for the other culture. You have the comments on vigile.net, you have the comments on this blog. So what can you expect...bottom line is as I said ...they don't like each other and this is not likely to change soon. The feds and Quebec governments (whether PLQ or PQ or BQ) have done their best to fester the animosities as its good for their own self interest.

    "but what you need to get through YOUR thick head is that to most of us in this “bilingual” country for whom language ISN’T a barrier, those dislikes appear petty and childish"

    What bilingual country. Another fallacy sold to the world by the polticians. Canada is not bilingual, it is a country with two official languages. Try and order coffee at Tim Horton's in Calgary. Bonne chance avec ca mon ami. Of course, of what value, is french to somone living in Medicine Hat or Saskatoon?

    "some of whom DON’T have a free choice in what language school to attend because of the French Language Charter"

    I think this statement pretty well sums up the situation in Quebec...No free choice. Maybe you should work on this in Quebec, as we all know that Canada is bilingual or has two official languages. ;) :)

    "In a supposedly bilingual country to boot!"

    Supposedly is really the essence of this statement.

    "Alas, history seems doomed to repeat itself."

    Tu as raison avec vos commentaire. So why continue with this silly notion of the two cultures living together. Not likely to happen so better the divorce papers get served and the two live happily every after in their respective ghetto of cultures. Who knows, maybe they would get along better. I can think of tens or reasons why this would be a better approach.

    Of course, this would result in likely the quick erosion of any french culture left in NA as Canada would become unilingually anglo in a short time. I doubt very much that the french will survive with the demographics.

    Vous avez un bon fin de semaine (or whats left of it).

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  50. Je suis agréablement surpris de constater que quelques anglophones commencent a réaliser que l'avenir du Québec a titre de pays serait bénéfique,sur plusieurs points, pour le Canada.
    J'espère aussi que 6:43 PM a le droit de vote au Québec et qu'il ne changera pas d'avis d'ici au prochain référendum.Ce dernier a tout a fait raison sur l'éventuelle harmonie entre Francos et Anglos.Comme le slogan dit : Si ça existait,on l'aurait...Déja.

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  51. @Anonymous 6:43 PM:

    You again.

    “Read what you wrote...melting pot with two or more languages I would think.”
    Again with the “melting pot” schtick. Don’t put words or expressions in my mouth that I don’t or didn’t use. Try it again and I promise not to be as respectfully Canadian to you next time as I am here.

    Melting pot in the sociological sense means everybody needs to morph into ONE DOMINANT identity. It’s debatable whether this duality would exist if the French had won on the Plains of Abraham or if the British had been even more brutal conquerors and had expelled, exterminated, or properly assimilated the Canadiens. In any case, it’s irrelevant here, since there is no melting pot in this country (go south, young man) and I’m not advocating ONE.

    I’m actually advocating that you start with TWO ice cream flavors and realize how great it is to lick both at once. Nobody asks for less ice cream and I’m sure most folks would go for more if they could.

    “[…] there is of course benefits to being bilingual or trilingual.”
    You catch on fast. You’ll go far.

    “[…] But, when you have enforced bilingualism […] then it is not a voluntary choice and I fully understand those in the civil service […]”
    You can’t say that there are benefits to being linguistically cultured but yet be so opposed to strongly encouraging or incentivizing people to progress in this direction. Very often, public service employees are given a reasonable amount of time to learn the other language. Now imagine how great it would be if within one generation of schoolchildren we could churn out near-bilinguals? Imagine kids who could grow up and visit all the countries of the Commonwealth AND the Francophonie and be able to communicate with many of the locals. Imagine how much more important it will be in the decades ahead with emerging economies and increased international trade and development. Now go look at the map and see where most of those countries are located. You’ll catch my drift fast. But you catch on fast.

    “Trudeau was f'ked in the head with the OLA.”
    I take it you must be close to the disgruntled public service guy who changed the Wikipedia article title to the “Quebec Nazi Act” a few weeks back…

    “[…] OLA. Has only created resentment on the part of the anglo majority of Canada. Of course it created a lot of jobs for people from Quebec who are fortunate in being exposed to both language groups. Not so fortunate for others in other geographical areas of Canada.”
    This argument mirrors in every way that of the French-language supremacists in my province who not only refuse to learn English but who wish to make it socially acceptable to persevere in their own deprivation and English-language illiteracy. The monolingual anglos can learn French and set a great example for (not to mention send a great message to) the French-language supremacists to show that they’re up to the challenge to respect the other solitude enough to learn the language. Which leads me to your next point:

    (1/2)

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  52. “[…] As I said, both solitudes, don't really have any respect for the other culture.”
    BINGO. And that’s the root of the problem. It’s one thing to live in Canada and spend my life wanting to learn Swahili but “never getting around to it”. It’s another thing to live in Switzerland (which has constitutional similarities to Canada) and not know at least one other official language (and they’ve got THREE!) of that country. We’re not the first country with more than one official language so the sociological rubbish about language being the main vector of culture is up for serious questioning. Even as a monolingual francophone Quebecer I’m sure I’d feel much more intimately related in culture and mentality to my buddies in Toronto and New York than those in Marseille.

    “Canada is not bilingual, it is a country with two official languages.”
    I’m a glass half full kinda person and so I read a sentence like that and say keep going. Don’t look down; it’ll only make you dizzy.

    “Try and order coffee at Tim Horton's in Calgary. Bonne chance avec ca mon ami”
    You say that as though I’d be at a disadvantage for asking in French. You forget that such an episode would only be further confirmation to me of the need to create a fully functioning bilingual population in this country. A century ago the premium was on teaching people to read. Now it’s time they learned the other official language. Nobody’s telling them to “assimilate”; just to be prepared, that’s all.

    “Maybe you should work on this in Quebec, as we all know that Canada is bilingual or has two official languages.”
    Tell you what, it’s nice to land at Montreal-Trudeau and be able to pick and choose what language I’ll use with the staff. It’s even nicer that I have the option to alternate from the time the plane lands and the minute I get into the cab. And you know what? I thank Trudeau in my mind each time I do that. And of course the staff itself for believing in it enough to take those jobs in the first place. Or maybe it makes simple economic sense. In which case I still thank Trudeau for being ballsy enough to both internalize and externalize what it means and takes to be an excellent Quebecer and Canadian.

    “why continue with this silly notion of the two cultures living together. Not likely to happen”
    LOL. I submit that this notion is not silly, as both the number and percentage of bilingual Canadians seem to be rising with each successive census. This country is bilingualizing [http://www.ocol-clo.gc.ca/html/biling_e.php] whether some segments like you and the separatists like it or not. The separatists are getting more uppity than they ever were, and as I wrote in French, are manifesting supernova theatrics resulting from their desperately knowing that they’ll soon be out of gas.

    “I can think of tens or reasons why this would be a better approach.”
    Yes and I’ve seen a kitschy list online of 1,001 (whiny and often repetitive) reasons why Quebec ought to separate. Often vitriolic, other times wonky and dogmatic, they’re mainly protestations deriving from French losses in 1759 and interpretations of statistics that are favorable to their cause.

    On the other hand, I can give YOU more than tens or even 1,001 reasons why Canada should stay united. Here’s a clue: you’ll find at least three and a half million of them in Quebec, and probably millions more elsewhere. Neither you nor the separatists will EVER beat that.

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  53. @Anonymous 7:27 PM

    « Comme le slogan dit : Si ça existait,on l'aurait...Déja. »
    On pourrait facilement dire chose semblable pour la réalisabilité d’un certain projet d’indépendance mal foutu...

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  54. Ça fait des centaines de fois en 400 ans qu'on essaie de s'entendre sans jamais y parvenir.
    2 essais de référendum en trente avec un écart qui rétrécit,je trouve ça assez bien foutu,merci.
    Le prochain sera le bon surtout si les anglos commencent a nous appuyer.

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  55. 1

    "You catch on fast. You’ll go far"

    Already there by most peoples standards.

    "I take it you must be close to the disgruntled public service guy who changed the Wikipedia article title to the “Quebec Nazi Act” a few weeks back…"

    No, can't take credit for that but is was rather amusing to see the comments on the various boards. Unfortunately, the guy is somewhat right in what he was intimating with the prank. I don't recall any laws anywhere else but in Quebec which require one language to be pre-eminant over another. Maybe you can tell me of another province in Canada where this is the law. ;)

    "cultured but yet be so opposed to strongly encouraging or incentivizing people to progress in this direction"

    Well, careful about that. Refusing a person in the civil service a promotion on the grounds of language where there is no requirement is in fact discriminaton. You need to be a bilingual in St. Johns NFLD, where there are actually no unilingual francos on the rock (you like the OCOL site, check out the stats) . Tell me this position needs to meet language requirements. Also, you will note that the OLA provides no monetary assistance for anyone in the private sector who may wish to take ESL training. (Well, there is a pittance tax credit) Check it out with Grahame Fraser who is the commissioner of the official francization of Canada.

    "imagine how much more important it will be in the decades ahead with emerging economies and increased international trade and development"

    Would likely better to teach Mandarin, Spanish or the native language of India if you wish to communicate with emerging markets. French is becoming out of vogue at this time.

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  56. 2
    "I’m a glass half full kinda person and so I read a sentence like that and say keep going. Don’t look down; it’ll only make you dizzy."

    Well, your an optomistic kinda guy. That glass seems to take a long time to fill so obviously there must be a leak.

    "You say that as though I’d be at a disadvantage for asking in French"

    I doubt you would get your coffee but you could try.

    "You forget that such an episode....bilingual population in this country"

    Why? Would it make any difference in the day to day lives of the people working at Tim Hortons in Calgary?

    "And of course the staff itself for believing in it enough to take those jobs in the first place"

    Don't they receive a bonus of about 800.00 per year for passing the exam.

    " In which case I still thank Trudeau for being ballsy enough to both internalize and externalize"

    Trudeau was an asshole.

    "I submit that this notion is not silly, as both the number and percentage of bilingual Canadians seem to be rising with each successive census."

    Actually not, if you further check into the 2006 census you will find that both french and the rate of bilingual youths have descreased about 25% over five years. You can believe what you want but that is what the statistics indicate. Of course many of these bilinguals trained in our fine immersion programs couldn't understand one seque of "tout le monde en parle".

    As one Canadian put in several years ago:

    "After all, enforced national bilingualism in this country isn’t mere policy. It has attained the status of a religion. It’s a dogma which one is supposed to accept without question. … [M]ake no mistake. Canada is not a bilingual country. In fact it is less bilingual today than it has ever been...As a religion, bilingualism is the god that failed. It has led to no fairness, produced no unity, and cost Canadian taxpayers untold millions.” (Stephen Harper, Calgary Sun, May 6, 2001)

    Well he was wrong about one thing. The cost of the OLA since 1969 has likely been in the 100's of billions. Some say over a Trillion although I find that hard to swallow. It has been such a failure that Chretien put a stop to an inquiry into the total cost of this botched and failed program.

    As I said bud, I have no problem with a person learning another language, a good thing which has merit. But,

    On their own dime.
    And not ....mine.

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  57. In addition, tell the cancer patient on a wait list that there is no money availabe for accelerated schedules of treatment as we spent it on the Official Languages Act so that we could have bilingual signs in the lobby of the cancer centre.

    It's even got so ridiculous as to be used for poltical agendas. Where did the former director of the long gun registry go...to language training. What a joke!

    "Here’s a clue: you’ll find at least three and a half million of them in Quebec"

    Who are you referring to. I thought there was over 7 million people in Quebec (7.8 to be more accurate) so who are the 3.5 million you speak off? Would this be the population less the separatists? If so, then likely the separatists might win the next referendum if Pauline Marois will get around to actually naming a date.

    You have a good night et avoir les reves douce. Si non, une bonne matin a vous.

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  58. "Le prochain sera le bon surtout si les anglos commencent a nous appuyer."

    Alors, je croire que c'est possible des anglos hors du quebec pourrais aidez vos cause. Plusiers des anglos hors du Quebec croirant que la Canada sera plus forte sans quebec.

    Bonne chance avec ton projete.

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  59. Sorry I clipped the front end of my last post for some reason.

    "Try it again and I promise not to be as respectfully Canadian to you next time as I am here."

    I have broad shoulders, give it your best!

    "I’m actually advocating that you start with TWO ice cream flavors and realize how great it is to lick both at once"

    Ice cream is not good for you. Too much fat and cholestorol. :) Of course, the two flavors might not be complimentary to one another. You should likely eat this ice cream quickly as the two might "melt" and become one which has no particular identifying flavor :)

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  60. "French is becoming out of vogue at this time"

    Pas au Québec,bien a contraire.Demandez a vos amis du Delaware.

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  61. Si vous êtes incapables d'apprendre le Français,comment allez-vous faire pour apprendre le Mandarin ou l'Hindi qui sont dix fois plus complexe que le Français?

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  62. Apparatchik, c'est vrai ce que tu dis à propos de l'idée que dans quelques décennies, il y aura une part significative de la population québécoise non spécifiquement attachée à la langue et aux valeurs des Québécois de souche, et qui sera dans une position d'influence telle qu'elle relèguera au folklore l'opinion qu'ont les Québécois du vouloir-vivre ensemble depuis des centaines d'années.

    Effectivement, cela arrivera. Mais seulement si les choses demeurent comme elles sont présentement. Étant donné que nous connaissons les dangers qui nous guettent, nous savons ce qu'il faut faire pour que cela n'arrive pas.

    Le règne du Parti libéral tirant à sa fin, une nouvelle ère débutera bientôt. Et cette nouvelle ère se fera sous le signe de l'affirmation nationale des Québécois. Tu verras bien jusqu'où nous irons pour enfin être « maîtres chez nous ».

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  63. "Le règne du Parti libéral tirant à sa fin..."

    Il ne tire pas a sa fin,il est déja fini.Charest n'a plus les deux mains sur le volant mais une main sur la poignée de porte (de sortie).Je crois bien que John James a commencé a regarder les offres d'emploi chez les fédés.

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  64. "I doubt you would get your coffee but you could try."

    Je ne fréquente pas ce genre de "resto" de merde.
    Ils ne vendent que du gras,du sucre et du café infecte (même pas d'expresso!).Les anglos en redemandent,leur raffinement m'étonnera toujours.

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  65. “I don't recall any laws anywhere else but in Quebec which require one language to be pre-eminant over another.”
    You should familiarize yourself with the practices of a pressure group called U.S. English and the already existing language laws of some 25-30 American states. These laws are rooted in much of the same paranoid ethnocentric bigotry as has been seen in their Quebec counterpart. Just swap franco for anglo and anglo for Hispanic (In the words of the wise Peter Griffin, “Everybody goes down a notch” ;-)). Many laws (the infamous number 17) have also historically been restrictive to francophones not too far from Quebec. In comparison, I find it almost pathetic that Israel (the hotspot/warzone par excellence and its complete spectrum of commentators stretching from raging pro-Zionist advocates to hardcore “kill-‘em-all” haters) now provides for a somewhat more tolerant language situation than we do. But then again in the early years, even the pioneering Zionists self-censored their own native Yiddish language into near-extinction in favor of an assimilationist Hebrew-only policy.

    “Tell me this position needs to meet language requirements.”
    It’s probably far-flung to expect people in such “remote” and “obscure” regions as Newfoundland and Labrador to commit to bilingualism (sarcasm in quotes). But I’m guessing some people want to “be allowed” to remain monolingual even if they want a public service job for which the government will pay for your second language education. Then again, some people on this board as well as down the street from me believe that English is a “foreign” language to Quebec, and deserves to be thought of in that way. They cite the military aggression and 250-year long “occupation” and “aggression” that “continue to this day”. A majority of Quebecers finds this laughable, as until a few years ago the PM, Supreme Court Chief Justice, and head of the military were all francophones. They probably couldn’t get there as monolingual francophones; as a francophone myself, and in a country with two “official” languages, let me ask you: do YOU think that’s fair? There’s plenty of blame to throw around, and a lot of it is debatable and disposable. The “foreign” argument conveniently leaves out the reality that those of us who are anglo and/or have roots here since the British conquest weren’t all part of the rich merchant class and/or Chateau Clique. If it’s ten o’clock, and I’ve been at a party since six, it’d be hard for me to sell the idea that the guy who arrived at 7:30 “just got here”.

    “Would likely better to teach Mandarin, Spanish or the native language of India if you wish to communicate with emerging markets. French is becoming out of vogue at this time.”
    I agree that we in the West should be investing massively in teaching our children the native languages of these emerging economies. Better to be linguistically self-sufficient than rely on the other guy as a language crutch. Same argument works within Canada too!

    “That glass seems to take a long time to fill so obviously there must be a leak.”
    I’m extraordinarily patient provided I get my own way in the end. Thank you for that out-of-context quote, Mrs. Thatcher.

    “Would it make any difference in the day to day lives of the people working at Tim Hortons in Calgary?”
    As Emmett Brown famously said, “you have to think fourth-dimensionally, Marty”. It won’t mean much from the start, but then again, at one point, even Voltaire on the eve of the British conquest sarcastically wrote of Canada as being nothing more than “quelques arpents de neige” (a few acres of snow). From barren wasteland to having been voted best country to live in in the world. Who’s laughing now?

    (1/2)

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  66. “Don't they receive a bonus of about 800.00 per year for passing the exam.”
    My justification for bilingualism is cultural and economic. Would you pass up $800 when you know your language classes are paid for?

    “Trudeau was an asshole.”
    And Mulroney was even worse.

    “You can believe what you want but that is what the statistics indicate. Of course many of these bilinguals trained in our fine immersion programs couldn't understand one seque of "tout le monde en parle".”
    Statistics are spun every day, and often the conclusions arrived at politically are very creative but still defy the strict rules of logic. If these bilinguals can’t understand TLMEP, I’d say it’s time to quit simulating bilingual immersion and get the job done properly. You talk about hating government waste; if the monies earmarked for specific initiatives were aggressively supervised, and not passively operated, it would be possible to ensure those initiatives’ success.

    “As one Canadian put in several years ago:”
    This from the same genius who as a reform MP was both overtly and covertly anti-Quebec but now that he’s PM speaks both official languages and recognized us as a “nation”? Please. E.E. Cummings had it right: “A politician is an arse upon which everyone has sat except a man.”

    “If so, then likely the separatists might win the next referendum if Pauline Marois will get around to actually naming a date.”
    You forget we need the “winining conditions”. That means we need to raise support from where it usually is, near 40%. This means we need to find a bunch of contorted emotional arguments that will pull at the heartstrings of Quebecers and induce them into the lobster cage. Watch the CBC documentary “Breaking Point” to relive that period and you’ll see that the main reason it came so close is because the separatists did an excellent job whipping up the population into an emotional frenzy and a fair number of OUI voters expected some kind of partnership with Canada could be worked out. Ask a straightforward question like “would you like to sever the umbilical cord permanently, get the f**k out of Canada and force your ‘nation’ into long series of negotiations that would require you to pay us billions in settlement/reparations” and I’m sure a lot more of us say NON. The separatists know that their base likes “sovereignty” in principle but when we start discussing the niddy gritty mechanics of how things will be settled that a lot of people sigh, wince, and shrug and begrudgingly find comfort in the status quo.

    «une nouvelle ère débutera bientôt. Et cette nouvelle ère se fera sous le signe de l'affirmation nationale des Québécois. Tu verras bien jusqu'où nous irons pour enfin être « maîtres chez nous ». »
    Il reste encore de la job à faire? Non mais vraiment. Tu parles de quoi, toi? Tueries extrajudiciaires? Déportations massives? Camps de concentration pour ceux qui n’appuient pas l’idée de sécession? Je ne parle pas de kitsch symbolique comme notre drapeau à l’ONU : dis-moi côté CONCRET pour un québécois unilingue francophone qui insiste de demeurer ainsi dépourvu, c’est quoi le rêve mouillé qu’il nous reste encore à réaliser?

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  67. Anonymous said..@September 6, 2010 12:35 AM

    "Who are you referring to. I thought there was
    over 7 million people in Quebec (7.8 to be more
    accurate) so who are the 3.5 million you speak
    off? Would this be the population less the
    separatists?

    Yes, about 10% of the population of Canada.
    More people than all the Atlantic provinces
    combined. More people than Saskatchewan,
    Manitoba, Yukon, Nunavut, and the Northwest
    Territories combined.

    Are you really prepared to write off a
    population the size of Alberta?

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  68. Anonymous at 10:49
    writes,"Je ne fréquente pas ce genre de "resto" de merde.
    Ils ne vendent que du gras,du sucre et du café infecte (même pas d'expresso!).Les anglos en redemandent,leur raffinement m'étonnera toujours.'
    S'exclame celui dont ses compatriotes raffolent et sont fier de la poutine chez La Belle Province?

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  69. "Tu parles de quoi, toi? Tueries extrajudiciaires? Déportations massives? Camps de concentration pour ceux qui n’appuient pas l’idée de sécession? "

    Les indécis n'attendent que les attaques (revendications excessives) de la part des anglos afin de joindre les rangs des indépendantistes et ça vous le savez très bien.Un peu d'aide des médias Québécois et hop!Un peu trop de remous et la majorité va basculée dans le camps des souverainiste.

    En ce sens c'est la minorité anglos qui décidera du sort des Québécois mais seulement a titre de détonateur.

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  70. Bel automne en perspective.Ça va chauffer a l'Assemblée Nationale mes amis.

    http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/education/201009/06/01-4312962-une-coalition-denonce-le-projet-de-loi-103-sur-lenseignement-en-anglais.php?

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  71. Franchement, à lire les commentaires de certains, ce n'est pas la modestie qui les étouffe. L'anglais est une langue utile mais sans plus, arrêtez de nous la présenter comme la 8e merveille du monde !

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  72. @Apparatchik

    The noble (and not so noble) goals of Trudeau’s Canadian bilingualism project aside, we must be realistic and admit that this whole thing turned out to be a huge failure, just like Bill 101 failed in making Quebec/Montreal French-only or French-predominantly. The ROC is as unilingual as it was in the 1970’s, and Montreal is no more French than it was in the 1970’s.

    I’m not sure if Trudeau was honestly optimistic about his coast-to-coast bilingualism project, or whether he knew back then that it was a long shot necessary to appease Quebec. But today, he would have to admit that its goals have not been achieved in the least.

    While looking for causes of this “echec”, it’s easy to point the finger at the “animosities” of the ROC towards Quebec. But I think there is a much simpler explanation, namely: practicality. Because in all honesty, people living in Alberta, BC, Manitoba, or even Ontario need French as much as someone residing in Idaho or Nebraska. And it’s not a coincidence that most bilingualism (or allophone trilingualism) is in Montreal where people of different languages co-exist and come in contact with each other, so they pick up each other languages, if not actively, then at least through passive absorption.

    To expect that people in the ROC would learn French “because Mr. Trudeau asked them”, and “because Canada is officially bilingual”, is an exercise in self delusion. People are practical creatures – they learn things when they need them, not because someone has written something on a piece of paper and made it official. And they surely wouldn’t learn a language to gratify another demographic group, especially if that group has been quite unruly towards them and their country.

    The social engineering that came out of Quebec in the 1970’s, be it federal (the OLA) or provincial (Loi 101) failed, because such projects usually fail. Projects that don’t take human nature into account, and try to manipulate people rather than give them freedom to make their own decisions. 101 and the OLA will surely end up on the ash heap of history. Not today, maybe not in 5 years, but one day for sure. And history books in 100 years will not be favorable to these two legislatures, if they mention them at all.

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  73. @Adski

    Maybe it IS misguided optimism to want to live in either a monolingual or multilingual paradise. If we can't have the one, it seems we can't have the other either. If that's the case, then my only hope is that language idealists like me (and many others here) can continue live happily and liberally (small-l) without being sh*t disturbed by politicians with restrictive and ulterior motives.

    @ Anonymous 5:23,
    Tu parles donc d'une cage à homard. Faut juste cajoler les masses québécoises assez pour qu'elles abdiquent pendant un instant ou deux leur facultés. Lorsqu'elles reprendront conscience, le tour sera joué... Quelle belle métaphore et image pour décrire la cause sécessioniste. Il y a un chancelier qui a essayé ça une fois. L'Allemagne a pu émerger d'un grand fiasco après lui mais ça a laissé bien des séquelles. Le passé est garant de l'avenir; tu connais la suite. N'y allez pas; je vous en supplie. Vous avez encore plus à perdre que nous fédés bilingues. Nous, on peut rester comme on s'en aller n'importe où et faire nos vies et carrières ailleurs. Vous qui vous battez pour vos limitations depuis trop longtemps demeurerez captifs dans votre prison francophone. Mais c'est peut-être là que je commence à comprendre le sens de "mieux vaut être pauvre et debout que riche et à genoux". Votre propre pauvreté, c'est quasiment comme si vous la vouliez. Moi, je ne suis pas prêt à assister à une telle tentative de suicide pour ensuite avoir à vivre un long rétablissement (si bien rétablissement il y en aura). Garde simplement à l'esprit que si vous sortez le couteau de la sécession, nous on sortira le canon du partitionnisme.

    @Anonymous 5:38, 5:52
    À quand une commission d'enquête sur la perte d'opportunité que nous aura coûté la loi 101?

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  74. À Apparatchik: Votre pseudonyme est travesti par vos idées rétrogrades et sans aucun projet pour le Québec. Vous militez pour le statu quo !? Si pour vous, le garant d'une vie meilleure est de s'assimiler à l'anglais, ça démontre bien que vous n'avez pas souvent quitté votre zone de confort ''anglophone''. Allez faire un tour en Afrique, en Asie, en Europe, en Amérique latine... Eh oui, il y a d'autres langues que l'anglais et surtout il y en aura d'autres qui prendront la place de ''langue des affaires'' comme vous aimez bien le répéter. Mais de grâce, arrêtez de nous casser les oreilles avec l'anglais tout le temps !

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  75. "Faut juste cajoler les masses québécoises"

    "nous on sortira le canon du partitionnisme."


    1.Je ne sous entendais pas cajoler mais bien les pousser dans leur dernier retranchement.Ce ne sera pas sur un coup de tête,une folie passagère ou en encore une forme d'hypnose ésotérique mais bien suite a une longue suite d'échecs et de revers qu'on a subi et qui perdure depuis 250 ans.

    2.Je préfère une lame bien affûtée a un gros canon sans munition.

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  76. "Votre pseudonyme est travesti par vos idées rétrogrades et sans aucun projet pour le Québec"
    Je fais parti de l'apparat qu'est la génération montante de québécois. Mes idées ne sont pas rétrogrades dans la mesure où j'affirme ma propre identité québécoise tout en adoptant quand je veux l'habit anglophone qui par la force des choses n'est désormais plus étranger dans mon garde-robe. Rappelons-nous qu'une identité, une culture, une nationalité, ce n'est pas du "one-size-fits-all". Or, affirmer qu'un bon québécois, c'est quelqu'un qui renonce à une affinité canadienne (ou même anglo-américaine) paraît tout aussi ridicule qu'arguer qu'on ne peut pas mâcher de la gomme et marcher en même temps.

    Et comme tu peux sans doute constater, je ne vois rien d'incompatible en affirmant mes identités francos, anglos, et allos. Peut-être ça inquiète mes adversaires.

    "Si pour vous, le garant d'une vie meilleure est de s'assimiler à l'anglais, ça démontre bien que vous n'avez pas souvent quitté votre zone de confort ''anglophone''."
    Une condition qui s'avère fausse. Je ne dis pas qu'il faut s'assimiler à l'anglais, à proprement parler, tout comme je n'avance pas la notion qu'il faut assimiler les immigrants au Québec au français à l'exclusion de l'anglais. Je sais très bien qu'il existe d'autres langues mais je sais tout aussi bien qu'il y en a qui sont plus égales que d'autres. Et c'est ÇA qu'il faut que vous compreniez. Ma zone de confort n'est ni francophone, ni anglophone, ni allophone, mais d'un amalgame pondéré de celles-ci.

    "il y a d'autres langues que l'anglais et surtout il y en aura d'autres qui prendront la place de ''langue des affaires'' comme vous aimez bien le répéter"
    Tout à fait, et je m'y prépare. Je me demande toutefois si au Québec on se plaindra avec autant de verve auprès de l'OQLF lorsque l'emballage d'un produit vendu au Québec sera uniquement en chinois, en hindi, ou en arabe (donc pas d'anglais), ou si on se précipitera à revendiquer pour nos enfants une éducation (immersion?) dans la nouvelle langue internationale des affaires pour qu'ils soient capables de relever le défi et faire concurrence à d'autres sur la scène internationale.

    "Mais de grâce, arrêtez de nous casser les oreilles avec l'anglais tout le temps !"
    Je considère que maintenant que nous ayons pris le dessus et sommes effectivement devenus maître chez nous, nous tirons un plaisir mesquin (pour ne pas dire pervers) au Québec d'injurier le méchant colonisateur anglais d'autant plus en raison de notre passé entremêlé. C'est du revanchisme beaucoup plus que du simple protectionnisme de notre langue et culture chérie. En fin fond, c'est de la jalousie rancunière dû au fait que ça aurait pu aller de notre bord mais qu'on a été abandonnés par notre mère patrie. C'est doublement pénible de s'avouer qu'on a été traités de pions par nos propres curés qui nous ont exploité simplement pour que eux puissent rester en affaires; ça n'avait rien à voir avec le noble désir de protéger la "sainte" foi catholique. Au Québec, on exagérait tellement notre dévouement que le pape nous a dit de se calmer le pompon...

    Et voilà que l'histoire se répète encore une fois; nos curés-devenus-politiciens nous revendent la même m*rde qu'on se croyait avoir tassé dans les vidanges; sauf qu'aujourd'hui c'est envers notre langue qu'on fait montre d'un dévouement exagéré. (ARRÊT/STOP! Ça nous prend toujours un ennemi, paraît-il). On n'a fait que troquer un impédiment au progrès (fanatisme religieux) pour un autre (fanatisme linguistique).

    (1/2)

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  77. Je ne milite pas pour le statu quo; je veux mon Québec bilingue, multilingue, et fier de l'être. Je sais fort bien que le soleil se couchera éventuellement sur l'emprise de l'anglais (tout comme ça a été le cas avec le français, le latin, et le grec) et le lendemain il y aura une autre langue (ou plus) qui prendra la relève. J'espère qu'on cessera alors de se mettre le nombril sur un piédestal. J'espère qu'on apprendra alors qu'avoir plus qu'une langue dans son porte-flèches, et de s'en approprier comme caméléon, c'est un avantage et non pas source de vulnérabilité.

    Mais comme nous semblons revivre nos anciens patrons et que l'histoire à tendance à se répéter, je ne retiendrai pas mon souffle.

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  78. Another point of interest.

    There will be a "debate" Thursday at UQAM regarding the restriction of Anglophone CEGEPs for Francophones / Allophones.

    http://www.montrealfrancais.info/node/2117

    My question is, why do they not invite representative of Francophone students or alumni of English CEGEP? Should the reason why they chose their way not be known to the general public?

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  79. "Should the reason why they chose their way not be known to the general public?"

    C'est une question qui doit être débattue et analysée par des spécialistes de la langue et des statistiques.Vous n'êtes ni l'un ni l'autre Troy, comme la grande majorité de la population dailleurs.

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  80. But how do the linguist and statistician know the reason why if the individuals in question are not involved in the debate?

    A DEBATE should analyze the issue from both sides. If not, it is not a debate, it is a presentation. In this particular case, it is merely a political rally.

    My guess is that the event organizers do not want that group to appear because they know that the answer the students would have given would actually be detrimental to their cause.

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