You may recall that it was this organization that objected to an Anglophone band performing in English at the festivities at the Fete Nationale celebrations last summer, before being humiliated in the press and subsequently, being forced to back down. LINK
Mr. Beaulieu likes to make the rounds of television talk shows promoting the French language and sovereignty in general. He moans and groans at the unfairness of it all and chastises the government for not doing enough to protect French. He spouts all sorts of statistics to support his point of view, which pours forth in an endless font of facts and figures.
Problem is, that most of what he says is either misleading or outright lies.
A speech he gave at the founding convention of the French watchdog group Mouvement Laurentides français came across my RSS reader and just before consigning it to the trash bin, I decided to give it a screening.
Mr. Beaulieu continued on his "Woe is Me" theme, but as I watched the video, I realized that the things that he was saying, didn't ring true.
Notwithstanding his smooth delivery, the facts he was spouting were not facts at all. This, combined with moronic logic, bad math and faulty assertions and conclusions had me asking myself if this guy was cleverly and deliberately misleading or was he just plain stupid.
Watch the video and make up your own mind. Idiot or Dastardly Clever?
What do you think, please vote?
Obviously his information is skewered. I still think Swiss-style language laws would be best for Quebec and Canada. The French would become less paranoid.
ReplyDelete"I still think Swiss-style language laws would be best for Quebec and Canada"
ReplyDeleteI disagree. Appeasement does not work with fanatics. It should start with the criminalization of all groups that advocate the break up of Canada. Racist demagogues like Beaulieau should be deported and everyone should be given the freedom to live in either official language of their choice.
I don't feel it is "appeasement" at all. Remember Francophones OUTSIDE Quebec would face the mirror image situation. I believe, as in Switzerland, it would buy language peace. The Swiss have managed to achieve this laudable fact with FOUR languages. Canada has failed to do so with only TWO. As for criminalization, I can only say that Canada is a free country and to imprison somebody simply because they feel the country is a mistake is hardly compatible with the "freedom" you claim to espouse. By the way, people are FREE in Switzerland to live and use whatever language they want. They simply cannot demand any government services in their language if they are living in a different zone.
ReplyDeleteQuebec will never allow people to freely live and use whatever language they want, even if government services are provided in French only, as in some regions of Switzerland. This would represent a huge loss of power on the part of Quebec.
ReplyDeleteThe Canadian government should copy France by adding a clause to the constitution that states the country is indivisible. Then it should deport or imprison the leaders of the separatist Bloc and the Parti Quebecois, as would be done in most other countries around the world.
An addition to my earlier post: With respect to the Swiss model, can you imagine a situation in Quebec where ONLY government workers were FORCED to speak French, and where English-only commercial signs would be permitted?
ReplyDelete"hardly compatible with the "freedom" you claim to espouse"
ReplyDeletePolitical organizations that work to undermine the existence of a sovereign state should be treated as what they are, treasonous. Having the freedom to speak one of this country's official languages is not even in the same ballpark.
"I don't feel it is "appeasement" at all. Remember Francophones OUTSIDE Quebec would face the mirror image situation"
It's the worst kind of appeasement. The nationalists will get everything they want without any forthcoming challenges from any court system, plus they'll retain the dollar and the billions in handouts from the ROC who won't have the ability to live and work within the province. You could say the same holds true the other way around, linguistically, but it doesn't when it comes to the cash. I'll tell you what they've been telling us for years: learn a second language!
"This would represent a huge loss of power on the part of Quebec."
It's precisely the problem, that the power structure in this country is too decentralized. We pay billions for redundant bureaucracies and the premiers of Quebec run the province like it's their own private reservation. No province should have the power to trump documents such as the charter of rights and freedoms.
"to imprison somebody simply because they feel the country is a mistake"
I said deport, not imprison. The way I see it, they've been living off my taxes long enough. I'm not interested in paying for their incarceration as well. Besides, I think they'll be happier in another location where they can either be a part of a homogenous whole, or a minority that can really kick ass on the subjugated.
And it's not that they feel that the country is a mistake that I have issue with, but that they seek to destabilize the state in every way they can to achieve their goals. You take pc politics too far.
I still can't figure out why anyone obeys 101. Just ignore it. What are they going to do? Arrest every single one of us? I haven't spoken a word of French for over a year now and the last time a customer came into my cafe complaining that the waitress wasn't fluent enough for him, got the half hour waiting period for his coffee. Just disobey - it's liberating.
ReplyDeleteAll I can tell you is Switzerland has language peace and Canada does not. How should Canada manage the situation with two additional languages? Territorial unilingualism is the best possible answer to linguistically diverse states. Should the Swiss have Quadlingualism?
ReplyDelete"Should the Swiss have Quadlingualism?"
ReplyDeleteI don't really care what the Swiss do. You're comparing two very different states with vastly different histories and on different continents. This is not Europe and we are not a nation with significant populations who claim ancestry and culture from neighouring countries.
Besides that, are you willing to fund the relocation of hundreds of thousands that might want to live in areas of the country that honour their rights as citizens, or are you willing to throw them under the bus simply because such an arrangement would not affect you? It doesn't matter to me if Canadians save on their taxes if bilingualism is abolished if I can barely afford to move into a trailer park in areas outside of Quebekistan.
One way or another, whether sooner or later, Quebecers will HAVE to embrace bilingualism if only to stave off complete economic and political domination by its neighbours. This is not Switzerland, nor is it Europe. All the thirty years of 101 have accomplished is a zone within Canada where salaries are cheaper than everywhere else. We're already on our way to our status as North America's sweatshop. Pretensions to the Swiss model are just that, and wishful thinking to boot. How many business headquarters left Switzerland and how many left Quebec, taking their jobs with them?
Keep in mind that Quebec is not a territory that could be in contention by various historically indigenous people, as Switzerland might be. No such compromise is necessary here, nor is it justified.
Canada has to enforce the charter of rights and freedoms in this province and flush 101 in the bowl that it deserves. Unilingual Francophones will have to learn the language of almost 400 million of their very immediate neighbours and treat the minorities within the province with the standards that we accept as status quo in North America - and not with some vague adaptation of a South African model of enforced assimilation linguistically but culturally and racially exclusive.
"It should start with the criminalization of all groups that advocate the break up of Canada."
ReplyDeleteHmmm, isn't that a little radical considering that 40% of all Quebeckers are still separatists and that almost the same percentage of Westerners would feel freer in a separate Western Canada?
That makes a lot of people in jail and I feel we are going to crush the competition in USA which is the country where the highest percentage of adult population goes to jail.
"Racist demagogues like Beaulieau should be deported and everyone should be given the freedom to live in either official language of their choice."
I agree with the first part but where shall he be deported? In some region where the yes vote scored 65% at least in 1995.
Would partition be a better solution given that your intolerance goes far beyond the one of Beaulieu's and the likes? Do you really want to live in a country where dissidence and freedom of expression is aloud or in some kind of intellectual prison where only the ones who think like you is allowed to say what's on his or her mind? Is that freedom of speech, association and expression as we shall know in Canada or some gulag communist dictatorship?
And oh, by the way, I am French Canadian, bilingual and a true federalist therefore no need to come up with some separatist hater mumbo jumbo.
regards,
TM
As for the math problems, he did not go to school long enough to do them properly.
ReplyDeletePoor French dude, at least if he went to an English school, he'd know how to add and substract...
Would I be willing to throw them under the bus? YES. I see no good or unselfish reason why Anglo-Montrealers expect millions of Canadians living hundreds and thousands of miles from Quebec should have to make and endure sacrifices from which, well, only Anglo-Montrealers will benefit. Likewise spending massive amounts of money to maintain some isolated Francophone communites outside Quebec which will eventually be absorbed anyways hardly helps Francophones in the long run. The best way to really help strengthen French culture and language would be to invest heavily in Quebec as a Francophone society. Please bare in mind had Swiss-style laws been enacted a long time ago these various language 'outposts' would never have come into existence today. Canada would have been spared a lot of scarring - the Manitoba schools act, bill 14 in Ontario, etc. I'll tell you what. Switzerland has language peace. It had it fifty years ago. It has it now. And it will have it fifty years from now. Canada doesn't have it now, didn't have it before and won't have it in the future. I also don't see how Quebec separatists are "traitors". Was Quebec ever asked to join Canada? Was there ever a referendum in 1867 on it? Were the Irish "traitors" for not wanting to be part of the U.K.? Are Scottish and Welsh nationalists "traitors"? Was George Washington a "traitor" for not wanting to be a subject of the British crown? Were the Croatians and Slovenians "traitors" to Yugoslavia? Who were the "traitors" in Czechoslovakia? The Czechs or the Slovaks? Were the Ukrainians and Lithuanians "traitors"" to the USSR? I don't see how. For a different take on Quebec / Canada may I suggest the patriot game by Peter Brimelow.
ReplyDelete"Were the Irish "traitors" for not wanting to be part of the U.K.? Are Scottish and Welsh nationalists "traitors"? "
ReplyDeleteI think you're buying into the Quebecois propaganda a litlle too much. Think of Quebec as a French Ghana, or Algeria or even Vietnam, had the French forces succeeded in subjugating it. Any claims Quebecers set in this territory are no different than the ones Francophones may have pursued in other colonies. This is not some indigenous minority being pushed around by an imperialistic neighbour, but is the same as its neighbour in every respect, and when it comes to forcible assimilation and practices of ethnocide, has proven itself far worse.
"Would I be willing to throw them under the bus? YES."
It would explain why Canada sat idly by while approximately a million people left the province of Quebec since the seventies. Arguably the largest politically and culturally coercive migration since the First Nations were forced onto reserves that North America has seen. It would also explain how the country kept silent as billions of its dollars were spent to create a group of second class citizens within the country that have no political voice and are in many respects disenfranchised in their own homes.
"isn't that a little radical considering that 40% of all Quebeckers are still separatists"
No, it isn't. Canadians should not have to pay the salaries of political parties that seek to undermine their state.
"agree with the first part but where shall he be deported? In some region where the yes vote scored 65% at least in 1995."
But not everyone in these areas is a public mouthpiece using their influence to foster racist sentiments among a large group against an already beleaguered and dwindling minority that lives in a ghettoized District 9 on the island.
"Would partition be a better solution given that your intolerance goes far beyond the one of Beaulieu's and the likes?"
Typical. After thirty years of being the butt end of the political spectrum in Quebec, resistance is labelled as intolerance. But you are correct. I have no more tolerance for 101 or for the likes of Beaulieau. And nobody else should either. Any political and cultural system that seeks to forcibly assimilate and socially engineer its territory to fit its own views at the expense of its minority groups should not be tolerated anywhere.
"a country where dissidence and freedom of expression"
Shutting down English schools on a yearly basis and erasing the existence of the language from the province is not a form of dissidence. It has more in common with ethnic cleansing than any type of democratic free speech.
"Shutting down English schools on a yearly basis and erasing the existence of the language from the province is not a form of dissidence. It has more in common with ethnic cleansing than any type of democratic free speech."
ReplyDeleteTotally agree on that one but how quizlers, cowards and appeasing anglo Montreal communities are reacting when it occurs?
Barely a sound when it happens, indeed they seem to ask for more of the same.
This is the price to pay to keep Quebec the way it is in the confederation some dude at the gazette would say. So tough luck for those who think that way, shall they endure and keep their mouth shut forever since appeasement never ends by definition.
@anonymous,
ReplyDelete""isn't that a little radical considering that 40% of all Quebeckers are still separatists"
No, it isn't. Canadians should not have to pay the salaries of political parties that seek to undermine their state."
It is NOT what you advocated in the first place. To refresh your memory this is what you wrote first speaking up your mind:
"It should start with the criminalization of all groups that advocate the break up of Canada."
Well, there is a MAJOR difference between the "CRIMINALIZATION" of separatist groups and shutting down the money tap to let's say the Bloc Québecois, HUGE difference.
I agree with the second intervention, I don't with the original intervention. As a matter of fact, ALL taps should be shut down to ALL political parties.
And if you don't get this difference between not giving free money to someone to live off some kind of welfare life and throwing a dude in prison, well, there isn't much I can do for you, not much indeed.
"Any political and cultural system that seeks to forcibly assimilate and socially engineer its territory to fit its own views at the expense of its minority groups should not be tolerated anywhere."
ReplyDeleteThe reality is that it IS tolerated almost EVERYWHERE. Just look at Israel and USA for instance where freedom of speech is aloud and look at places where it isn't aloud like in communist or islamo-fascist countries and tell me where you would like to live in the end.
Reply to Anon at 6:48 AM:
ReplyDeleteYou say the movement of a million Anglos from Quebec since the seventies was the greatest migration in North America? Nonsense. Look at the White flight from California alone in just the past decade. How about Detroit? (Once one of America's finest cities, as hard to imagine as that sounds now). Or anywhere else in any large North American city. As for Quebec Anglos not having any political voice, that is their own fault. They should have developed their own communal political institutions and parties at the municipal, provincial and federal levels. Instead they simply voted for the useless Liberals who took them for granted. Contrast the Anglos of Quebec with the Germans of northern Italy. The latter is represented by parties of its own at ALL levels of government in Italy. There are many other examples too. The Anglos just chose to cut and run rather then to stay and fight. I still don't see why Anglophones throughout all the rest of Canada should have to make economic sacrifices and endure political strife (I.E. institutional pan-Canadian bilingualism) simply for the benefit of Montreal Anglophones.
''Canada has to enforce the charter of rights and freedoms in this province and flush 101 in the bowl that it deserves. Unilingual Francophones will have to learn the language of almost 400 million of their very immediate neighbours and treat the minorities within the province with the standards that we accept as status quo in North America - and not with some vague adaptation of a South African model of enforced assimilation linguistically but culturally and racially exclusive.'' You really have a problem of supremacy !!!!!! YOUHOU ! You're not the belly button of the world ! If you don't want to live in french, i suggest you to move to an other province, it's only in Québec that french is the OFFICIAL language, it give you 9 other provinces and 3 territories ! Don't spend your life to make Québec bashing ! And for the lesson of democracy, Québec citizens contribute to the political system, it's not to anyone to decide who's parties can receive money or not, it's like for the Referendum of 1995, it's not the matter of the Rest of Canada. Why we should pay for Conservative if they don't receive a big purcentage of votes in Québec ? For the district 9 of the island, YOU have decided to create a Ghetto and not the Francophones !The anglophones represent 10 % of the population of Québec, they have hospitals, schools,2 university (that received a lot of money from the public money), don't make me cry with that situation. And don't bug me with the allophones or francophones that want to go at english school, it's a non-debate ! The english schools are for english population. Going to a SUBSIDIZE english schools is not a right for the rest. Vous mélangez tout, ce supposé droit n'existe pas ailleurs, depuis quand un état paye pour que les gens intègrent la minorité ? Les écoles de la minorité sont pour la minorité, pas pour les autres !!! Quand pourrais-je allé à l'école en castillan ou en mandarin ? N'importe quoi...:) Pour la Loi 101, plusieurs états américains ont votés des lois afin de préserver le statut officiel de l'anglais, pourquoi ne s'enflamme-t-on pas sur cela ?
ReplyDelete"depuis quand un état "
ReplyDeleteQuebec is not a state. It's a province of an officially bilingual Canada.
"Going to a SUBSIDIZE english schools is not a right for the rest."
I suppose Francophones are the only taxpayers in the province right? If you consider that the majority of the big tax dollars in the province's economic centre come from allophones and anglophones who own and operate the businesses of the island, then they're entitled to their schools. But it's democracy when the Franco-supremacists are subsidized by the rest of Canada as a virulent minority within the larger context, but not when it comes to minorities within the province. Besides, if 101 were not in place you would find that attendance of English schools would rise not just because of immigrants but because there are many Francophones that would enroll as well.
"If you don't want to live in french, i suggest you to move to an other province"
I could say the same to you. If you want to live in French, go to France. Canada is a bilingual country that guarantees me the right to an education in either official language. Quebec is not your exclusive domain.
"it's not to anyone to decide who's parties can receive money or not,"
And why not? You claim that it's unfair for English education to be subsidized for minorities within the province. Then why should virulent political parties be subsidized when they represent the interests of a small minority? Not to mention, that no such groups should be financed when their only goal is to destabilize the very country that pays them.
"You really have a problem of supremacy"
Yes, I have a problem with the supremacists in this province that imagine that they have a right to impose their own language and culture at the expense of all others. French Quebecers are not superior in any way to any other minority within Canada and within the province itself. If they can claim a unilingual status than so can every other minority. As far as I'm concerned, you're just part of another immigrant group and your cultural desires don't mean shit to me when they deny me my rights as a Canadian citizen. Which is why I ignore Bill 101 and live in this province as I chose despite your little tongue troopers and your fascist VLBs and Beaulieaus.
Le terme État est ici utilisé dans le terme d'entité administrative, si l'État québécois n'existe pas, vous êtes sûrement l'un de ceux qui évitent de payer son dû fiscal :)
ReplyDeleteSniff, Sniff, i suggest you to go to United Nations ! It's true that the situation of Anglophones in Québec in unaceptable ! Don't lost your times, they will laugh !:)
ReplyDeleteI really think you need a class on law ! If you have ever read the Constitution (which is constitued by the British north american Act 1867 and the Charter of rights and freedom)you'll see that EDUCATION is in the field of competence of provincial government. And the province are not subdue to the federal government, they are independent in the own field of competence.
ReplyDeleteGet over it, Canada is not the end of the world ! states changes, that's why there is more than 50 new independent country since 50 years !
ReplyDeleteFrench Quebecers are not superior, they are just the majority on the territory, you know what means democracy ? The majority rule... I suggest you a class of law, it can be at McGill or U de M:) Best regards,
ReplyDeleteThe whole concept of "bilingualism" is wrong. This is what is causing all the strife. Firm language laws based on territorial principles would be better. Just about every English speaker outside Quebec could live with a 100% French-speaking Quebec (for official purposes) and do away with Trudeau's crazy "bilingualism". I don't see any reason why we should "take one" for the Montreal Anglophones. Of course the Montreal Anglophones - who get the benefits, while dumping the costs on us - don't see it that way.
ReplyDelete"Sniff, Sniff, i suggest you to go to United Nations ! It's true that the situation of Anglophones in Québec in unaceptable ! Don't lost your times, they will laugh !"
ReplyDeleteActually, the United Nations cited Quebec for human rights violations and discrimination years ago because of Bill 101. The situation for many Anglophones in Quebec IS unacceptable. That is why a huge number of them have moved away during the past several decades. And many Anglo schools and hospitals have closed down.
"I don't see any reason why we should "take one" for the Montreal Anglophones. Of course the Montreal Anglophones - who get the benefits, while dumping the costs on us - don't see it that way."
Anglophones - on a per capita basis - pay much more than Francophones across the country for official bilingualism . And Montreal Anglophones don't benefit very much from this policy. Official bilingualism is only enforced outside of Quebec.
You have totally wrong, it's Brent Tyler ( not particulary the nicest person about the francophones) that have decided to go to United Nations that says in 1993 the committee wrote, "but it may not exclude outside the spheres of public life, the freedom to express oneself in a certain language."Reacting to these events, Bourassa introduced new legislation in 1993. This law would allowed English on outdoor commercial signs only if the French lettering was at least twice as large as the English
ReplyDeleteRead more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/10/22/f-quebec-language-laws-bill-101.html#ixzz0iXV6ocjw
Where's the problem ? I always look in the east Ontario where's the commercial signs in french ? You don't really read the newpapers ? Maybe leave the yellow one like the Gazette or the Suburban and you'll see what's the data says. You should help the others minority of Canada (read all the francophones)to receive an equal treatment of what you have- universities, hospitals,... We don't want to beg nothing, next time, just let us leave, ROC will not pay anymore for Québec. Your lesson of democray is so ridiculous, and for partition, may i tell you that the idea find herself at the begginning of Canada in 1867. Another history class is between the creation of Canada: The High Canada(part of actual Ontario) and Low Canada(part of actual Québec. We don't beg nothing, Québec is one of the two provinces at the base of Canada.
Anglo Basher:
ReplyDeleteYou misread my post. I AM an Anglophone. My point is that Anglophones like myself outside Quebec don't need "bilingualism". You DO. Why should Anglos in British Columbia, Saskatchewan, Toronto, etc, have to make sacrifices on the language front from which we derive no benefit. It is a lot easier for a Montreal Anglophone to support "bilingualism" then a Calgarian who gains nothing from the policy but has to pay for it...
I lived in Montreal but joined the Anglophone exodus two years ago by moving to Ottawa. The main problem here is that Quebec is just across the Ottawa River, LOL.
ReplyDeleteAs I said before, Quebec Anglophones don't really benefit very much from official bilingualism. It seems to just apply outside of Quebec. I say, get rid of it too!!!
To Anonymous at 3:54 PM:
"Where's the problem ? I always look in the east Ontario where's the commercial signs in french? You should help the others minority of Canada (read all the francophones)to receive an equal treatment of what you have- universities, hospitals,... We don't want to beg nothing"
There are plenty of French commercial signs in eastern Ontario, which is more than can be said for English signs in Quebec. In fact, several municipalities in eastern Ontario have passed laws that FORCE businesses to put French on their signs... Francophones seem to have a talent for enacting draconian laws.
The rights of Francophones have been protected in Ontario. All government services are bilingual. All of the road signs are bilingual. There are many French schools. There are French clinics and hospitals. The University of Ottawa is bilingual.
New Brunswick is an officially bilingual province.
"next time, just let us leave"
There was a reply to this in the past by someone else. You had two referendums and you voted to remain in Canada both times, despite the shenanigans of the separatists. In both referendums, the separatists tried to trick people into voting 'Yes' by asking vague, misleading questions. There was also evidence of the massive fraudulent rejection of valid 'NO' votes in the 1995 referendum. YOUR lesson of democracy is ridiculous!
"I still don't see why Anglophones throughout all the rest of Canada should have to make economic sacrifices and endure political strife"
ReplyDeleteNo matter what, Canadians will continue to dump billions into the province whether it's unilingually Francophone or bilingual. The difference is that in a bilingual province they will have opportunity whereas now it's a money pit that offers zero opportunity to any other Canadians. With a bilingual Quebec you'd be paying for something, now you're just being extorted by an unscrupulous minority.
"I don't see any reason why we should "take one" for the Montreal Anglophones. Of course the Montreal Anglophones - who get the benefits, while dumping the costs on us - don't see it that way"
How are you doing anything for Montreal Anglophones? We don't benefit from bilingualism in any way over here. If you're taking anything it's a good push into the rear by a Canadian minority that extorts the federal government with perpetual destabilization to maintain a bilingual state, and to attract billions of tax dollars billions in to the Quebecois black hole. Canada has been getting fisted since the seventies and it was never to help out the anglos of Quebec.
" Look at the White flight from California alone in just the past decade. How about Detroit? (Once one of America's finest cities, as hard to imagine as that sounds now). Or anywhere else in any large North American city"
In which one of these cases was the migration caused by legislation adopted by the local government? In which one was a linguistic and cultural group denied its federally protected rights by a local government?
"French Quebecers are not superior, they are just the majority on the territory, you know what means democracy ? "
How many democracies can you name that employ a government body to penalize its citizens for speaking a different language? How many democracies can you name that restrict education in a language in order to eradicate the presence of a cultural group from its territory?
"that's why there is more than 50 new independent country since 50 years"
No matter what happens, Quebec will never be truly independent. As a nation state it will be permanently subservient to its neighbours politically and economically. It will transform from partner to subjugated, and I can't really say that it doesn't deserve it.
"We don't want to beg nothing"
Really? What about the dollars that flood into the province from the ROC? What about the begging and tax breaks offered by Quebecois governments to get out of province investors to overlook 101 and throw a few jobs our way here in Quebec? Especially since thousands of them were lost with the introduction of 101.
"receive an equal treatment of what you have- universities"
Universities are funded by their attendance records and not because Quebecers are a fair society. I'm sure the Franco-fascists would do away with both Anglo universities in Montreal if they had half a chance. Even as we speak, they seek to apply 101 to Cegeps and Universities which would limit attendance and financing. Maybe more Francophones would find the same opportunities in other provinces if they actually bothered to learn a language that almost 400 million people right next door to them speak. The only real support for a unilingual Quebec is from the lazy or the bigotted.
''Francophones seem to have a talent for enacting draconian laws.'' Does it sound like intolerance, racism and misunderstand ? I think yes ! By generalization, we understand why there's conflict on this earth ! Maybe you should turn your tongue couple of time before open your mouth !
ReplyDelete''There was also evidence of the massive fraudulent rejection of valid 'NO' votes in the 1995 referendum." I think there's was a lot fraudulent act by the NO side (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pILBjMFXdGk) look that was on CBC or Excusez-moi SRC !:) The federalist side always use fear and use to trip someone up to democracy ! So some of you want to complain about governmental services not in english ? I don't know where you live but in the far east of the Island, you know EAST ? BRRRR.... It sound frightening ! This part where there's a lot of francophones :) I'm sarcastic you'll understand ! It's impossible to call somewhere where you don't have for english service press nine ? Sniff, it's true that anglicization is everywhere in world except in Québec, and let me guess, it's the fault of the Loi 101 ! Qu'est-ce qu'il ne faut pas entendre ! Soyons sérieux !
ReplyDelete''How many democracies can you name that restrict education in a language in order to eradicate the presence of a cultural group from its territory?'' Are you dumb or you really feeling like someone want tho eradicate the presence of a cultural group ? Maybe you should speak to radical sovereignists because they think too that Canada want to eradicate the francophones ? Sound freaky and paranoid in both side !:)If you don't understand that ENGLISH schools are for ENGLISH (parents that study in english, people that make a consistent part of his studies in english, english native people) and not for the immigrants and for francophones ? I can make you a drawing !:)
ReplyDelete''Especially since thousands of them were lost with the introduction of 101.'' Why they left ? Because it hurt their values or because they cannot continue to laugh of the francophones that represent more than 82 % of the population ? You sound like Rhodesian (i love to use this term when i see intolerant like you )
ReplyDelete''Even as we speak, they seek to apply 101 to Cegeps and Universities ''Cegeps yes but for universities it's false leave the Suburban a little bit... For Cegeps, can i tell you that they are public institutions, it's abnormal that the biggest Cegep of Québec is Dawson ? Universities are private institutions, you can go where you want ? But for Cegep, i'll understand ! You want that the francophones pay for their own assimilation ? Qu'est-ce-que tu comprends pas là-dedans ? Stop with your comparison, there's no similar situation in North america. The case of Québec is unique in North america. And in between us, i don't know how you can be afraid to disapear when there's more than 380 millions anglophones in North america ? It's funny, i open the radio- English song, i turn the channel on tv- English, go to corner store- English newspaper, go to rent video- english version movies and there's plenty examples of that !
ReplyDeleteI think nobody is against learning english but you don't want we make the promotion of it ? English is useful but IT'S NOT our language !It's not the role of goverment to pay english classes to people want to make their study in english ! And if i want to learn mandarin ? or esperanto ? The english institutions of education are for the anglophones not for the other one, it's simple to understand no ?
ReplyDelete"For Cegeps, can i tell you that they are public institutions, it's abnormal that the biggest Cegep of Québec is Dawson ?"
ReplyDeleteWhy is it abnormal? Does anyone force you to attend English schooling? Are you suggesting that the mere availability of such schooling is a threat? Then if so, being a democrat, you should let people choose. But I'm sure you would rather coerce.
"Why they left ? Because it hurt their values or because they cannot continue to laugh of the francophones that represent more than 82 % of the population ?"
They left because they were surrounded by a belligerent racist majority that enacted draconian legislation that targeted them as a group, and a segment of which, only a few years before, had planted bombs in their neighbourhoods.
"they cannot continue to laugh of the francophones that represent more than 82 % of the population ?"
Do I detect a serious complex?! Look around you. Most available jobs in the economic centre of the province are provided by out of province companies and ethnic and anglophone business. What has 101 gotten you? Even if you want to work at a call centre you have to speak English. Too bad the majority of Francophones don't, which means more jobs for us immigrants and anglophones. All 101 has done is to target a minority group for ignorant bigots like you to scapegoat with your out of context Rhodesian remarks.
"i open the radio- English song, i turn the channel on tv- English, go to corner store- English newspaper, go to rent video- english version movies and there's plenty examples of that !"
Oh, the horror!! How do you manage? Despite the ever pervasive threatening demonic language of les autres, I can still get fined for speaking English(Which doesn't stop me, and if you drift into my establishment it's the only language you'll be served with). I still don't have a right to live in this country with the same rights every other Canadian has. So I don't give a shit if Brittney's playing on the radio, or if you're stuck watching a crappily dubbed Hollywood blockbuster where Clooney sounds like Gaston from Abitibi.
"and not for the immigrants and for francophones ?"
And why not give people the choice? Because a large nuber of Francophones would chose to have their children bilingual. Why is this threatening to you? If the minority group I belong to can retain its ethnic identity and language, then so can you. And if you can't, then there was nothing there to protect in the first place.
"Are you dumb or you really feeling like someone want tho eradicate the presence of a cultural group "
So what would you say if education became a federal power and 101 was reversed so that all new immigrants that came to the province would be required to study in English, and that to work in Quebec you would have to demonstrate a competency in English?
" And if i want to learn mandarin ? or esperanto ? "
So far, they haven't become official languages in this country. But if they do, by all means, go for it. I will.
''So what would you say if education became a federal power and 101 was reversed so that all new immigrants that came to the province would be required to study in English, and that to work in Quebec you would have to demonstrate a competency in English? " I would say that they miss the country, English Canada is just right next door ? Dont't lost your time and go to Toronto, there's no ambiguity there, it's english and only english !:) I love when you make lesson on Open-mindness and your not able to fit into the reality that francophones are the majority in Québec :) !
ReplyDeleteI'm Québécois, kiss me ! (next time i'll put my macaroon on the 24 of june) ! It's funny how demonstration of all other proud of nationality is acceptable but not Québécois !! The province where english minority is lived like slaves !Get over it the Bill 101 !
ReplyDeleteMost Quebec Anglos will never accept the fascist Bill 101. It gives Quebec, and by extension, Canada, a bad reputation internationally.
ReplyDeleteIf I knew where Rene Levesque and Camille Laurin were buried I would go piss on their graves!
"Dont't lost your time and go to Toronto, there's no ambiguity there"
ReplyDeleteNo problem. Compensate me for the low house value here due to the shitty 101 economy so that it'll be affordable for me to relocate and I promise you I'll be waving a solitary finger behind me on my motorcycle as I rip down the 401.
Until then, I'm an ethnic Canadian and will continue to live my life as if 101 and the bigots who support it don't exist. You want a unilingual society? In my neighbourhood the language is English.
''If I knew where Rene Levesque and Camille Laurin were buried I would go piss on their graves!'' I see, you're still at your anal stage !:) I've always find that PET was a fake hero and a Québec basher but i never had your kind of comments ! I just make me a pleasure to deconstruct his symbol that is totally crap !
ReplyDeleteIt's not a question of language in the neighbourhood, it's a question of A COMMON LANGUAGE (the one of the majority, you know like when francophones work in the ROC ? For your information you don't know that the OFFICIAL language and the one speak by the MAJORITY is french. Rhodesian, stay in your ghetto if it what you want ! You must be for the independence of all the other place in the world except here ! I think Canada must became a part of USA and why not Mexico and Latin America (the common language will became spanish, great no ?) ? Why it's good for others but not here ? You must leave your neighbourhood a little bit, you'll see that everywhere in the world people claim their independence ! Even Harper recognize the Québécois like a distinct nation ! He's not really what we can say an independantist ! By chance, your low house value is maybe the only one you can purchase ! I'm a Québecois (and Canadien) born in an other country, you have right to choose what you want but sorry if you live in Québec, you're de facto Québécois !:)
ReplyDelete"For your information you don't know that the OFFICIAL language and the one speak by the MAJORITY is french"
ReplyDeleteIt's this narrow minded regionalism that is part of your imaginary nation syndrome. Quebec is only a part of a greater whole. The majority of the whole is English. By your reasoning a state of English unilingualism should be enforced across the country.
"You must be for the independence of all the other place in the world except here ! "
I'm for the independence of all indigenous peoples. And you're right, Quebecers can't be classified as an indigenous people by any stretch of the imagination.
"stay in your ghetto if it what you want"
It seems that in Quebec we all stay in our ghettos. I don't think there are any sizeable ethnic communities outside of Montreal, even somewhere as close as St. Jerome.
" By chance, your low house value is maybe the only one you can purchase "
I suggest you browse MLS and compare home prices between Montreal and other large metropolitan centres. And what does it matter if my house is a trailer here? I still couldn't replace it with the equivalent for the same amount of money in Calgary, Toronto, Vancouver, etc.
" I'm a Québecois (and Canadien) born in an other country"
If you are born in another country you will never be a Quebecois to the pure laine, and neither will your kids. They might hand you a temporary bone if you are one of the selected Francophone immigrants that were brought here only to bolster a yes vote without any further regard to immigration suitability.
"Even Harper recognize the Québécois like a distinct nation !"
Then I guess it must make it so. I'm sure political expediency had nothing to do with it at all. He also refers to the First Nations in the same manner and thanks to 101, Quebec is slowly on its way in becoming the largest reserve in the country.
"you're de facto Québécois"
I agree. Now lets try this same line of argument at the St. Jean Baptiste celebrations and find out just how good our public health care system is, if we make it that far.
"I'm a Québecois (and Canadien) born in an other country"
ReplyDeleteIt figures. You probably come from some shit hole in Africa, which would explain your obsession with Rhodesians.
How ironic. We welcome immigrants to Canada with open arms and then they cause trouble by supporting the suppression of one of our official languages and even advocate the breakup of the country. The latter is treasonable and should be cause for deportation. Allowing Quebec to control its own immigration was a huge mistake.
I don't see why Bill 101 is considered "bigotry". Language laws should be based on the principle of territorial unilingualism like in Switzerland. Why should all Canada suffer to benefit the Montreal Anglophones and a few pockets of Francophones outside Quebec?
ReplyDelete" Why should all Canada suffer to benefit the Montreal Anglophones and a few pockets of Francophones outside Quebec?"
ReplyDeleteHow would a bilingual Quebec cause suffering to the rest of Canada? It's unilingual at the moment but your tax dollars still flood into the province to fund undemocratic institutions such as the OLF and you still pay the salaries of the Bloc mps.
But to answer your question, an equitable society is measured by its treatment of its minorities. Since I suspect you're a Franco-first troll masquerading as an Albertan, I can understand how this sentiment may be lost on you. After all, Quebecers are not famous for their tolerance or their tendencies to provide an equitable environment to their minorities. And if you're not trolling, then you might just be the other side of the same coin.
Reply to anon at 9:10 PM;
ReplyDeleteI am an Anglo from Toronto. I don't see how territorial unilingualism has anything at all to do with "tolerance". It is just common sense and would buy language peace. How does bilingulaism cause suffering to Canada? First there is history. The Manitoba schools question, bill 17 in Ontario, etc. Had there been T.U. Francophones from Quebec would have been treated like Italians in Toronto or Poles in Manitoba; quietly assimilated. I would mention 900,000 Francophones from Quebec migrated to New England from 1840-1930. They have several million descendents in the USA - but they never caused any trouble in America. Bilingualism is expensive (the true costs are much, much higher then even thoughtful people imagine. I may put up a post on that sometime). Bilingualism restricts the vast majority of Canadians from working in the federal goverment or public life especially at a senior level. When Brian Mulroney was chosen leader of the P.C. in 1983 he had never been elected to anything in his life but he spoke fluent French. As Peter Brimelow wrote in his brilliant book THE PATRIOT GAME, this was his only asset. Only Montreal Anglos and the now rapidly dissolving Francophone comunities outside Quebec really benefit from the costly and unwieldly policy of bilingualism. And as Scott Reid points out in LAMENT FOR A NOTION, all but 50,00 of them can speak English anyways. To a more limited extent Quebecers in general benefit from the policy because it gives them a de facto edge in prference for hiring in Ottawa. But it is a stupid policy. I see absolutely no reason why French is needed here in Toronto or elsewhere in Ontario. It amazes me how Montreal Anglos expect the rest of English-speaking Canada to support them in a policy from which they are the only group of Anglos to benefit.
"Bilingualism restricts the vast majority of Canadians from working in the federal goverment or public life especially at a senior level."
ReplyDeleteAre you suggesting then that millions of Francophones in Quebec should not have access to their federal representatives and services in their language? French is not imposed on you in Toronto, but if you do want to work at a senior level in the federal government then you should at least be able to communicate with Canada's largest minority and other founding culture. Besides, I would expect that someone seeking employment at a high level in government would have the intellect to acquire a second language.
Assuming the country became exclusively unilingual, what would the role of Quebec be then? The second most populous province would in effect be ostracized from the federation and politically marginalized and unrepresentd, as they've done themselves to the minorities within Quebec. Do you really think Canada is better off without Quebec? Essentially, are you willing to trade off the entire province because Canadians seeking federal employment can't be bothered to learn a second language?
"To a more limited extent Quebecers in general benefit from the policy because it gives them a de facto edge in prference for hiring in Ottawa."
This is true but there are also thousands of jobs available in the federal government that are not bilingual imperative and are not located in Ottawa. You have the entire country to work in with a cushy federal position. And if you do manage to learn French, you'll even get a bilingualism bonus. So what's the problem?
"It amazes me how Montreal Anglos expect the rest of English-speaking Canada to support them in a policy from which they are the only group of Anglos to benefit."
It's not just Montreal Anglos. There are also other minorities in Montreal who make up the bulk of the islands population. They also represent the financial and business centre of the province. And not least, there are the Francophones who retain their Canadian identity and are fully bilingual. What you would be throwing under the bus is not a few hundred thousand Anglos, but the Canadian identity in the province of Quebec, in the very place of its birth.
You know what costs a hell of a lot more than bilingualism? The highly decentralized form of government that forces Canadians to pay for multiple bureaucracies. Not only does it cost more but it's the primary source of the linguistic tension as Quebec nationalists use this pulpit to radicalize an entire province and to bypass essential Canadian rights. Do away with that and the savings and linguistic peace will follow.
I never said Canada should be unilingual. I favour Swiss-style language laws. Quebec should be French-only and the rest of the country essentially English-speaking. I could make a VERY strong case that Canada would be better off without Quebec, but that is a different subject. The Trudeau imposed Pan-Canada wide bilingualism is a disaster. It was sold to gullible Canadians (who were never allowed to vote for it) in 1969 on the grounds it would end Quebec separatism and bring peace. Let's see now. The FLQ attacks. The October Crisis. P.Q. elected in 1976. Referendum in 1980. Another one in 1995. Meech Lake. The B.Q. The policy has just not worked. The Francophones in Queebc are still insecure about French and the rest of Canada is burdened with "bilingualism". For anyone who wants a different take on what passes for Canadian "values" please read Mr Brimelow's excellent book, THE PATRIOT GAME.
ReplyDelete"Which is why I ignore Bill 101 and live in this province as I chose despite your little tongue troopers and your fascist VLBs and Beaulieaus."
ReplyDeleteExactly. That's what I've been doing for years. Let the Beaulieus, Landrys, Perrautlts, Duceppes, Marois's, and Harels bark. That's all they can do. They can't personally force anyone into anything. And despite their “best” efforts, Montreal remains bilingual.
And Mario Beaulieu is a twit. He’s a small, petty, frustrated, and vengeful man. A sad, pathetic wreck that hides his insecurities and fears behind virulent rhetoric. Listening to his shameful meanderings hurts my ears and my soul.
I bet the guy can't speak a word of English and gets very worried and insecure watching all the immigrants around him (myself included) - as well as many Francophones - become proficient in English and move onto greener pastures, while he is stuck "protecting" his language while noone else cares anymore.
It's his way of running away from reality. I wish he could physically run away. Very far away, preferably. Like Gaspe or Estrie, or the Laurentides, where he could live all in French and leave us alone.
''It's this narrow minded regionalism that is part of your imaginary nation syndrome. Quebec is only a part of a greater whole. The majority of the whole is English. By your reasoning a state of English unilingualism should be enforced across the country'' FOR YOUR INFORMATION, THE GREATER WHOLE IS THE WORLD, maybe you should look other tv channels or pay you a airplane ticket, you'll see that a lot of people on this planet don't care about your imperialism and biggot attitude !
ReplyDeleteDon Cherry, a great example of bilinguism, i think i'll go in one of his restaurants and i'll ask to be served in french like you doing in all the place you go !Rodesians ! In Rome we doing like the romans, never heard about that ?
ReplyDeleteTo Anonymous at 10:21 and 10:23:
ReplyDeleteIf you travel around the world you will see that most people choose to speak English as a second language. No one is forcing it upon them, whereas in Quebec French is shoved down everyone's throats.
At least Don Cherry had the good sense not to open any of his restaurants in Quebec.
What shit-hole country did you come from anyways? Haiti? I suggest you go back. We don't need shit disturbers like you in Canada.
''What shit-hole country did you come from anyways? Haiti? I suggest you go back. We don't need shit disturbers like you in Canada.''
ReplyDeleteI see something like the real face of CANADIAN TOLERANCE ! Full of principles but lies at the end ! In Québec, English is also SECOND LANGUAGE, WE AGREE ! Do you know what means SECOND, after the first...Not trying to impose the second as a first !
Is there anything else than anonymous people in this discussion?
ReplyDeleteanonymous responding to anonymous, how ackwardly wonderful.
To anonymous at 5:22 PM:
ReplyDeleteGeez, it really turns my stomach that a foreigner would come here and dictate to me what language I should or shouldn’t speak. English is an official language of Canada, and Quebec is still a Canadian province falling under federal jurisdiction. No one is saying that English should be imposed upon Quebecois, but the English language shouldn't be restricted or banned in Quebec either, as is currently the case.
To anonymous at 12:05pm, 26 march 2010- ''Geez, it really turns my stomach that a foreigner would come here and dictate to me what language I should or shouldn’t speak. English is an official language of Canada, and Quebec is still a Canadian province falling under federal jurisdiction.''
ReplyDeleteThanks for giving me reason !
I agree with you,that's why the argument that Loi 101 restrain the access to english schools is a infamy is only use to propaganda against Québécois francophones. The newcomers don't have to choose, they go in the schools to hold the majority and speak the language of the majority : FRENCH. English school is for the Québécois anglophones minority and the cases expect in the Law.
''Montreal remains bilingual.'' Why Montréal should be more bilingual than Ottawa ? And what about Toronto ?
ReplyDeleteBecause english is what made it become a metropolis for the record...Denying the english language in Montreal, is denying a huge part of it!!!!
DeleteMario Beaulieu is most certainly doing all this deliberately. There is no doubt, the funding he receives federally, provincially and by donations makes the issue of the ''decline of French'' critical to his own well-being. I have also heard Bill 14 was written by him & Co. Definetely not your village idiot, more like the village priest.
ReplyDelete