Friday, April 11, 2014

Let's Hope that Pierre-Karl Péladeau becomes leader of PQ

Vive le Quebec!.. Vivre le Quebec, LIBRE!
The prevailing view being peddled by stunned sovereigntist hardliners is that Quebecers rejected the PQ out of abject fear, panicked at even the remotest possibility of another referendum or in fact the remotest possibility of sovereignty itself.

For these faint-of-hearts, Pierre-Karl Péladeau's, (PKP) famous fist pump, made the likelihood of a referendum all too real and triggered many panicked francophone voters to abandon the PQ for the safety of the Liberal party, or so the narrative goes.

It reminds me of an episode of The Big Bang Theory where the lovable gang of scientific nerds goes to a bully's apartment to collect on a debt. When the doorbell is rung and the bully opens the door, three of the four turn tail and run away, leaving poor Leonard to face the music alone..... Ha! Ha!

That's what the hardline separatists would have us believe of the francophone voters who ran away from the PQ in the face of another referendum.  Fear.
But I'm not buying, not for a moment.

Now readers, if there's one food I can't stand, it's radishes. I don't like them, don't buy them, don't serve them and won't abide by them.
I am reminded of President Bush senior, who hated broccoli and wouldn't serve it in the White House.
That being said, I can assure you of one thing, I'm not afraid of radishes and I don't think President Bush is afraid of broccoli.

The fact that many francophones abandoned the PQ over the possibility of a referendum or sovereignty isn't because they are afraid.....

It's easy to brand someone a fraidy-cat just because that person thinks that jumping off a cliff with a bungee cord isn't a particularly good idea.
While the hardliners brand the reservation as 'fear,' I call it 'abundant good sense.'
Some people drink coffee, some tea. Would you brand those who prefer tea as 'fearful' of coffee?
Utter rubbish..
Reading the pundits in the separatist press, I understand the reason for this 'fear' theme.
The alternative explanation, that most francophones have evolved to reject sovereignty on its merits (or lack thereof), is just too devastating and difficult to accept.
Throughout the pages of Le Journal de Montreal, the theme of 'fear' is being peddled by columnist after columnist, politician after politician;

In an articled entitled 'A confused people' Mario Dumont describes Quebec Francophones as both 'confused' and 'afraid'....
"Is this normal? It's weird and  it underlines how shallow-rooted are our beliefs. I feel some voted out of fear." Link{fr}

"He (Drainville) acknowledged that the support for the Charter in the population wasn't converted into votes. "It should be noted that the fear of the referendum was stronger," he analyzed. Link{fr}

Mathieu Bock-Côté devoted an entire column to the 'fear' theme.
"Quebecers, for now, and perhaps for awhile, do not want to engage in sovereignty and in many cases, something they simply refuse to consider outright. Most of this analysis then, is meant to decipher this fear. What is it  about? What are its fundamental elements and what are its deepest determinants?... the struggle for sovereignty remains relevant and in the medium term, the strategy should be to confront this attitude and convert it to hope. In other words, the electorate can be convinced of a project that does not yet endorse .  Link{fr}

Clearly, hardliners are trying to convince themselves and others that if they can just convince Quebecers to get over their fear, sovereignty can once again be on track, just like convincing a reluctant bungee jumper, standing white-knuckled and frozen at the gate, to take the plunge!...Good luck with that.

And so I'd like to see the PQ taken over by this group of delusionals, led by Pierre-Karl Peledeau, and seconded by Bernard Drainville and other dreamers who cannot see that the sovereignty parade has passed Quebec by.
Let them them embrace the fantasy that its only a question of allaying Quebecers' 'fear' of sovereignty that delays the inevitable rendezvous with destiny.
Here's is that fantasy enunciated in all its glory by Mathieu Bock-Côté;
"One lesson is clear: soft-pedaling sovereignty is a losing strategy. The PQ will never convince Quebecers to embrace independence if they continue to hide their option. .. LINK{FR}

So the problem wasn't that there was too much discussion of sovereignty, referendums and independence during the election campaign, but too little!

A Parti Québecois, loyal and committed to 'Article 1' of its constitution, the commitment to sovereignty as the number one priority, is doomed to obscurity, reliving past glory, but no longer relevant.
Under such conditions, the PQ will pass into obscurity and fall by the wayside, like the Union Nationale, or the Créditistes, before it.
Let's hope the party finds a leader who will lead the PQ down this garden path, because there is a more disagreeable possibility.

It isn't impossible that the PQ can give up on 'Article 1' and evolve into a nationalistic party, one without the separatist option.

You heard it here first.
Jean-François Lisée, the erstwhile separatist and political opportunist is doing exactly that.
He is moving to lead the PQ away from the sovereignty agenda. In a long blog piece, Lisée is making the case gently. He may not be the only one in the PQ to understand the reality, but he is the first to  hint at a PQ without sovereignty.
"The combination of PQ + PKP gave the sovereigntist option a new credibility. However, this credibility awoke in nearly half a million French-speaking Quebecers a strong aversion to relive the referendum adventure, ..."
....But the elephant in the room is now clearly visible: a significant part of the French electorate is, in the foreseeable future, resistant to the referendum option. Resistant to the point of plunging Quebec back in the arms of the Liberals rather than to consider the option of country. "  Link{fr}
So Lisée is setting himself up as the alternative leader to those who will push hard for sovereignty, like Drainville and PKP.
He appears to be setting a course for a grand 'virage,' the PQ without a sovereignty option.

The word 'Autonomy' is starting to circulate as a replacement for the toxic 'sovereignty.'
Autonomy is a muddy concept where Quebec would pursue more power from Ottawa, but without any threat of separation.

The game's afoot, a hard line sovereigntist PQ with PKP or a social-democratic PQ with strong nationalism replacing sovereignty with Lisée.

I'm pulling for PKP to destroy the PQ once and for all.


  1. I generally like your bungee jump analogy but I would compare not voting for separation/sovereignty to not wanting to jump using a visibly frayed rope. The risk of a catastrophic failure is much too high.

    1. Diogenes,

      Have you bungee jumped at all? When I was in New Zealand I did the jump with the first company in the world to do commercial bungee jump. It was a blast. One of the best moment in my life. And you know what? Their safety record is actually better than that of the airline industry.

    2. @troy

      "When I was in New Zealand I did the jump..."

      who cares troy?

    3. Except perhaps for your mother, student, nobody really gives a flying fuck about anything you write and yet here you are, scrawling one vapid post after another.

    4. @diogenes

      "...nobody really gives a flying fuck about anything you write..."

      sure. but about troy's bungee jump, do you think anyone in our community cares about it?

    5. Just bear in mind student that your best post is less interesting than Troy's worst post. Won't you agree that you should try to do better?

    6. @diogenes

      you dodged the question two times in a row mate. why?

      and yes i should try to do better. that's what everyone should do all the time, isn't it?

    7. You're obviously not a math major, are you student? Learn to count. I ignored your question once because a) it seemed more rhetorical than real and b) it was posed by you.

  2. Classic delusion: "'I'm not crazy. You are!" What I don't get is why more people are not taking about this as a follow-up to the excoriation of the Bloc. Writing's on the wall: Quebecers want options and when they get them, they take them.

  3. Editor, you wrote: "It isn't impossible that the PQ can give up on 'Article 1' and evolve into a nationalistic party, one without the separatist option."

    Isn't that represented by the CAQ?

    Your desire to have PKP win the leadership is about as equivalent to my wanting the PQ to have won. Granted mine would have lead to hostility, mostly demonstrations and possibly some rioting (no, it's not a good thing, but I think their being in power as a minority would have led to showing the population what could have been worse). Sometimes people have to see what destruction their desires could cause.

    Of course, I wouldn't have been completely honest by not mentioning Harper's credibility would be stronger because,as you stated the other day, Harper would have been the most hostile SOB to confront the separatists, and I would have loved watching him go to work on these racist bastards.

    BTW, red radishes are delicious when thinly sliced into a garden salad. Added sparingly they enhance the flavour of the salad. Too, I prefer broccoli to cauliflower myself. Just putting it out there..

    1. this why the Liberals will be re-elected in 2018 no matter ifthe PQ does or does not drop Article 1; PQ will be competing for CAQ votes

    2. The desire on the part of franophone Quebecers for an independent Quebec is solid, as demonstrated by this part week's election results. DO NOT BE FOOLED BY THE MAJORITY OF SEATS WON BY THE LIBERAL PARTY OF QUEBEC, the fair-weather pro-Canada party of Quebec. The win was an aberration of split separatist votes (CAQ/PQ/QS) and the concentration of federalist votes in the Greater Montreal Area.

      The separatist vote has never been stronger. You are all buying into a fantasy of pro-Canadian sentiment on the part of the Quebec electorate if you think that this election results is a confirmation of the love of Canada. Quebec's people want their own nation and, by golly, they are going to get it in spite of the Liberal Party of Quebec (which could only garner 41% of the popular vote, half of which came from anglos and allos, stalwart defenders of Canada). Only 20% of francophones voted for the pro-Canada party (the Liberals) and they are only pro-Canada at election time; during their mandate, they have proven to be anti-Canadian at best.

      Just as the federal scene swings from Liberal to Conservative from election to election, so too will the Quebec National Assembly. Just wait. Soon, the PQ will be in power again and, yes, a third referendum will be called and, yes, a hard question will be asked, as required by the federal Clarity Act. And you will all be surprised at the result.

      But the day of reckoning will come when your inability to stand up for freedom and your country will bite you in the ass. There is a price to pay for voting for a fair-weather friend of Canada and a vigilant defender of Bill 101 (i.e., the Liberal Party of Quebec). You will lose your country and you will have only yourselves to blame.

      Canada: they gave a country and nobody came.

    3. @Tony

      Nobody is buying into anything, what are you babbling about? Have you not read some of the posts today? If we are going to excerpt any kind of power in the interests of Montreal, ALL parties need to be put on notice, no matter who they are. For many of us, we know exactly the name of the game. The political and economic instability that has plagued Montreal till now, STOPS NOW. No one is fooled.

  4. I want to look at this "fear factor" from a different angle. If those defeated separatists are correct, what does it say generally about Quebec francophones? That they are coward? That they are meek and weak? If those assessment are correct, why is there a Quebecois society after all? Are they really worth fighting for as they do not want to fight for themselves? Remember that separatists never fail to remind us that Quebec francophones are suppressed not free under Canada.

    So let me put this question to member of separatist movement. Are French Quebecers generally coward? Do they not really know what is good for them? Are they the kind of people who have no courage to fight and to struggle for their own rights and freedom?

    1. Troy, I suggest to you that Quebec and Quebec francophones have all the "rights and freedoms" that they need; what they want is their own country. But they don't want a chocolatey mess (to borrow a phrase from the good people at M&M's) on their way to achieving independence. So if they can milk Canada along the way (complaining all the while) and choose the time and place for their independence, why not?

      Just wait until the appropriate "grande humiliation" is visited upon Quebec. Meech Lake (which, in the words of Pierre Trudeau, gave Quebec the whole shebang and bent over backwards to accommodate Quebec's "historical" grievances and demands) and its rejection was the most recent grande humiliation. It doesn't take much. One will be drummed up and promoted once the opportunity presents itself. Could come at any time.

      And when that happens, the 33% sold pro-separatist vote -- as evidenced in last week's election -- will quickly grow to a 50% plus "yes" vote. Throw in an NDP majority government on the federal side -- which has an official policy of allowing a 50% plus one vote "yes" to result in a UDI -- and you've got the disintegration of Canada. A perfect storm that is NOT out of the bounds of possibilities to occur.

      "Courage" doesn't enter into it; either the Quebec people want independence and their own country or they don't. I say they do. And they'll get it, particularly since there is not only no one standing up for Canada and its values, but an ROC and a so-called federalist electorate in Quebec (i.e., Anglos and Allos) that are only too quick to vote for quasi-separatist parties like the Liberal Party of Quebec. This is NOT a formula to keep a country intact. It is, historically, a formula for DISINTEGRATION of countries...and this is the path that we are on.

      Gosh, we are currently at a time of great prosperity and growth in Canada. All indications and economic conditions dictate that Quebecers should be in LOVE with Canada; yet there is a solid 33% of hard-core separatists that voted as such this past week. Just wait until there are economic conditions that are NOT conducive to a peaceful you think this will DECREASE or INCREASE the number of separatistes?

      Your beloved country is on the wane. It is only a matter of time before Canada ends. And you will all have yourselves to blame for its demise. There is going to be a price to pay for continually voting for a party -- The Liberal Party of Quebec -- that stands for the continuation of violating your rights (i.e., Bill 101) and being a fair-weather friend of Canada. You ARE going to lose your country. Don't blame anyone but yourselves.

    2. Take a pill Tony...and please DON'T call us in the morning.

    3. Sounds like you're drumming up support for your book Tony. We will keep our country and you have a lot of nerve blaming us and not the political choices we have in quebec.

    4. Mr. Kondaks,

      While it is an interesting spin from my question about French Quebecers attitude into putting blame on Quebec federalists, I have just one question for you. What then Quebec federalist should have done?

  5. On a separate, off-topic note:

    I watched CBC News this morning and they had the special session of Question Period from the House of Commons where MPs paid tribute to Jim Flaherty. I have to say that among four MPs that delivered the comments on behalf of their respective parties, the comment from the Bloc is the lamest and the most uninspired one. While others gave account of personal connection with Flaherty, the Bloc just read a plain, boilerplate kind of comment.

    1. Anonymous Buster of Shit ArgumentsFriday, April 11, 2014 at 4:43:00 PM EDT

      Well Troy, you must understand...

      ...though Flaherty was born in Quebec, he was an Anglo and fervent federalist and so therefore, in the eyes of separatists, he wasn't even human.

    2. In addition to what ABOSA wrote, duh Bloc is not there for altruistic reasons in terms of federal politics. Their agenda is completely different from that of normal parties and normal human beings.

      ABOSA, you forgot to mention that, according to the deposed Diane de Courcey, Flaherty spoke a foreign language.

    3. @troy

      "...the comment from the Bloc is the lamest and the most uninspired one. While others gave account of personal connection with Flaherty,..."

      might have to do with the fact that bloc dudes didn't have a personal connection with flaherty. so what?

    4. It seems as if every member of every other party in the Commons had a personal connection with Flaherty, as did numerous top economists and finance ministers around the world. What's the Bloc MPs' excuse? That the finance minister wasn't worth their time?

    5. the bloc mp's excuse for having less personal connection to flaherty then roc mp's is they are from another culture.

    6. Who gives a crap that these inconsequential Bloc MP's (now forgotten) didn't have a relationship with Flaherty. Flaherty had relationships with people who counted. It isn't everyday, That the imagine of a great Canadian who throughout his Life was devoted to public service for the betterment of All Canadians, even the undeserving ones, adorns Time Square.
      R.I.P Mr. Flaherty.

    7. @montréal ville état

      "Who gives a crap that these(...) Bloc MP's (...) didn't have a relationship with Flaherty"

      troy, a bs argument, sauga and ex-mtler1642 do. they really do make an effort to find quebec bashing material don't they?

    8. No, I don't agree. They don't quebec bash anywhere near as much as you Canada-bash. I do, however, consider they are just exposing the Truth about the broke-ass quebec brand.

    9. "They don't quebec bash anywhere near as much as you Canada-bash."

      ?!? please provide many canada-bashing quotes i may have written lately.

      "I do, however, consider they are just exposing the Truth..."

      right. so now you attack dudes who are "exposing the truth". better and better. go on write another contradiction. it's funny.

    10. student Friday, April 11, 2014 at 10:02:00 PM EDT

      the bloc mp's excuse for having less personal connection to flaherty then roc mp's is they are from another culture.

      I am truly confused by this statement. Thomas Mulcair, a francophone who was born, raised and currently live in Quebec delivered a very emotional and heartfelt statement on Mr. Flaherty the day before. What other culture there is between him and BQ MPs?

    11. It's simply a numbers game all of the real parties have more than 4 members, so they had a better chance for one member to be competent or talk to any other the MPs, the Bloc members just sit around waiting for pay cheques to roll in.

    12. “the bloc mp's excuse for having less personal connection to flaherty then roc mp's is they are from another culture.”

      The seppie disease is summarized right there, crystal clear for all to see. As if a politician had to be an Irish Montrealer to be able to have a connection with the Minister of Finance…

      Successful people long ago rejected limiting themselves to such an insular, defeatist point of view. Yet seppies continue to wonder why they are always perpetual failures…

      What a dismal worldview they have chosen. Totally self-inflicted…

    13. @the cat & troy

      when gilles duceppe dies, don't you expect a stronger mourning from french canadians than from british columbia? exactly. now get over it and find a real issue to discuss.

    14. Anonymous Buster of Shit ArgumentsSaturday, April 12, 2014 at 10:07:00 AM EDT

      "when gilles duceppe dies, don't you expect a stronger mourning from french canadians than from british columbia? exactly. now get over it and find a real issue to discuss."

      Duceppe isn't up to Flaherty's measure.

      Jim was a man of class, intelligence, acumen and integrity.

      Gilles is the opposite of all of those traits - that's why no one will truly miss him.

    15. Gilles who? Lol

    16. Anonymous Buster of Shit ArgumentsSaturday, April 12, 2014 at 11:17:00 AM EDT

      You know - he's the Santa-haired dude with the tomato-face.

    17. ...and the condom on his head.

    18. Well, it's probably just for his protection: Duceppe has his head up his ass most of the time :)

    19. Okay Congrats to Roger Rabbit, he wins the prize for "statement of the day". That was tooooo funny! LOL
      Priceless...just Priceless!!

    20. Anonymous Buster of Shit ArgumentsSaturday, April 12, 2014 at 1:41:00 PM EDT

      For those of you who aren't in the know about what we're referring to:

      Hey, Duceppe's a dickhead.

  6. Well, its really quite simple with regards to fear.

    Obviously, a significant element of Quebec including a great deal of francophones, have no taste for another referendum or sovereignty in general. No fear here as they simply don't wish to have any further referendums of discussions on separation.

    What they actually "fear" is voting for a party which might prove to be contrary to their wish for no further referenda or separation. They were actually "fearful" of voting for the PQ who may have proceeded with something opposite to the likes of the majority of Quebecers.

  7. "It isn't impossible that the PQ can give up on 'Article 1' and evolve into a nationalistic party, one without the separatist option."

    Exactly! I really felt like one of the three sepratist parties was going to stumble on this truth late in the election. All it would have taken was a promise of "No referendum for at least x years". I think that would have done it for the PQ. If the CAQ or QS had done it they may have caught a lot of the PQ's lost seats rather than the Liberals. Instead, all three of them competed to make claims about how soon after winning they would organize a referendum.

    1. haha! a new clown in town. welcome to our community mate.

    2. The CAQ promised no referendum for at least 10 years, it was their schtick. To the federalists they were secret separatists, and to the separatists they were secret federalists. It didn't work too well for them, they came in third both times, with Federalists blaming them for the PQ win in 2012 and separatists blaming them for the PLQ win in 2014.

    3. student:"haha! a new clown in town. welcome to our community mate."
      I never realized that you consider yourself, and the rest of your troll circle of jerks to be a community of clowns.
      Good for you. Recognizing your problem is half way to solving it.

    4. @diogenes

      no no you're wrong again mate. i was refering to cutie003, apple iig2, diogenes, durham, montréal ville état, a bs argument, lord dorchester, exmtl1642, sauga, un gars bs de frankfort, r.s and laurie. all the misinformed improvised comedians if you will. like bdbbill up here, they regularly come up with naive gems that bring a cheer to our community don't you agree? this does not include jay, complicated, adski nor yannick as these guys obviously read further than the national post's crazy headlines.

    5. Ahhh pinstripes any time you attack me in a post, it is music to my ears, and a real compliment, cause I know that what I write enrages you and drives you nuts! Understandably, the Truth is a hard pill to swallow, at the very least, try doing it with some grace! LOL

      Ps: Putting me in the company of Cutie, Apple, Durham, Laurie, deogenes, ABSA, Mr. Sauga, LD, exMTL and the remarkable and distinguished R.S, is a double compliment and honor. Merci.

    6. Poor student, just lashing out at everyone after his/her messiah Pauline failed to deliver everyone to the mythical land of milk and honey that is an independent Quebec. Student was sold on it, there were going to be rabbits and everything!

    7. @whowhatzit

      "just lashing out at everyone..."

      oops sorry mate i had forgotten you. you're a clown too. it's just so easy to forget you.

    8. ah student,
      Research: 0
      Analysis: 0
      Style: 0

      Fail again.

    9. Don't forget

      Capitalization: 0

      The shift key is hard to find.

    10. @BdgBill

      I think you need to do some reading up on Quebec society and politics. Your comments show a marked lack of understanding of the political spectrum.


  8. Anonymous Buster of Shit ArgumentsFriday, April 11, 2014 at 7:28:00 PM EDT

    It's also a question of stakes.

    The longer it takes for the sovereignist movement to achieve it's goal, the higher the personal stakes for the players in said movement.

    Sovereignists, not just federalists, are...

    1) Having kids
    2) Buying homes
    3) Climbing the corporate ladder
    4) Starting businesses
    5) Aging

    As such, many of the understand that separation would indeed come with cost and consequences.

    Only socialists think collectively.

    People who aren't socialists, acknowledge the human condition that is considering your own needs and that of your
    immediate circle before all others first.

    Nothing wrong with that.

    Francophones opposed to a referendum aren't scared - they have lives and want to enjoy those lives on the same level of quality as their compatriots in Ontario, Saskatchewan, the Yukon and B.C.

    All of the other provinces get to settle their political differences over left-center-right.

    The Quebecois are fed up with settling their political differences with Language-Separation-Unity.

    Quebec's nationalists and federalists want to their children to grow healthy and in turn they want to age gracefully.

    They want the houses they buy to appreciate in value and see more of the money they earn on their paychecks.

    They're not scared - they're merely craving the normalcy that is commonplace in the rest of the country.

    Imagine that.

  9. Bedard was minted interim, his brother is a close friend of PKP's.
    PKP has the leadership in the bag. The CAQ has become the PQ's main competitor on nationalism.
    The PQ will veer more towards the right and give up on the left.

    The PQ tried a friendlier environmental with Boisclair = failed.
    The PQ tried to rever back to 1980s era PQ with a dash of identity crisis with Marois = failed.

    When was the last time that the PQ have success? Oh with Lucien Bouchard with his zero deficit cut cut cut.

    The PQ are going back to old formulas and they think that PKP will be their next Bouchard. But by 2018, the internet will have informed us enough.

    Liberals will be re-elected in 2018 while the CQ and the PQ fight for nationalists votes.

  10. Many people predicted that the Liberals would be gone forever when they lost the 2010 federal elections under Michael Ignatieff, and now they're leading in the polls.

    The victory of Phillipe Couillard is devastating, but it would be premature to assume that it will be definitive.

    1. "Many people predicted that the Liberals would be gone forever when they lost the 2010 federal elections under Michael Ignatieff..."

      your many people are really bad political analysts mate.

      "... it would be premature to assume that it will be definitive."

      of course. quebec is stuck in current political pardigm until it separates, or until french canadians disappear.

    2. How many times do I need to request that you don't talk to me?

    3. "When did you ever ask me not to talk to me mate? You need to provide a link" I can hear you say already. Let me pre-empt you..

    4. no i remember you asking this. but i don't care. if i feel like following up on your stuff i'll do it.

    5. All the odd troll behaviour finally makes sense now that we have student on video:

    6. Wow, @student is just like the SSJB, thinking francophone is the same as separatist.


    7. @kevin

      every nationalist is likely to become a separatist given the right circumstances. what percentage of quebec francophones do you reckon are quebec nationalists?

    8. @student
      I do not accept your premise.
      While I believe that many francophones have flirted with sovereignty at some point in their lives (much like anglophones flirt with leaving Quebec) I do not think that it is a philosophy that people return to, or can be easily convinced to re-adopt. In a way it's a frame of mind based on innocence or ignorance, and once you lose those they are impossible to reacquire.


    9. @kevin

      "In a way it's a frame of mind based on innocence or ignorance..."

      yeah right. freedom is for ignorants now. haha. that's crazytalk kevin.

    10. @student
      You say freedom, 2/3 of Quebecers say lifestyle-banning legislation restricting all aspects of life. 2/3 of Quebecers say they are already free to do whatever they wish in Canada.
      2/3 of Quebecers wonder why, exactly, separatists feel trapped.

      You don't need a referendum. You need to search your soul and figure out your self-inhibitions.


    11. "2/3 of Quebecers say they are already free..."

      please provide the poll you are refering to. in the case you rely on election results to draw all these delusional conclusions well... don't bother.

    12. your conclusions are abusive troy. that's all i can say. what you can safely assume here troy is 42% voted for liberals and 23% votes for caq. there is a myriad of reasons why all these voters did so. i doubt all of them are canada lovers like you pretend.

      you're in for a rude awakening mate.

    13. No one here is in for a rude awakening pinstripes cause everyone's got their eyes WIDE open, not to mention we have no expectations from ANY of the Parties, so we cannot be disappointed. We wanted and needed to get rid of the PQ cause it was bad for our health. Now we put the Liberals in power and we're self medicating, but we are well aware we're still living with a 'condition'. You on the other hand are freakin' dreaming in color if you think aussant is coming to liberate you. Lol, talk about being in for a rude awakening. LOL

      Popcorn please

    14. @montreal ville état

      "You on the other hand are freakin' dreaming in color if you think aussant is coming to liberate you.."

      i merely wrote he would be good. but there are many others of course. don't you agree?

    15. Seppie poop? Oh yea...I do agree you have your Lot to pick from, l'embarras du choir! LOL good luck with that.
      I bet you Montreal becomes a city-state way before Quebec becomes independent. LOL

    16. *du choix

    17. student Sunday, April 13, 2014 at 3:28:00 PM EDT

      you're in for a rude awakening mate.

      A more rude awakening than that of Tuesday morning, 08 April 2014?

    18. @troy

      "A more rude awakening than that of Tuesday morning, 08 April 2014?"

      you felt tuesday morning was rude? i'm surprised as i thought you were another basic anti-pq grunt. i'm sorry if the election result wasn't what you had wished for troy.

    19. @student
      Since you don't believe the voting numbers, you could look at any poll that asks about separation. Claire Durand, 2closetocall, and have plenty.

      In any case the PQ has been promoting separation for 45 years and is right back to square one.

      At which point will you understand that the majority of Quebecers just aren't that into your idea?

      Or asking another way: under what circumstances could you accept that people have rejected your idea?

      Since Bouchard's era we've heard about "winning conditions". Isn't it time for separatists to consider the idea of "losing conditions"?

      Because let's face it, federalists have *already* had this discussion. We know what it would take to defeat us. We know what it would take to make us walk away: a clear majority agreeing to a clear question.

      But your side -- you have to think at which point you walk away. Otherwise you will spend your lives on a futile, unrecognized dream.


    20. @kevin

      "At which point will you understand that the majority of Quebecers just aren't that into your idea?"

      i do understand this right now mate. so what? i still believe french canadian nation having political control over their own laws, treaties and taxes is a good idea.

      "under what circumstances could you accept that people have rejected your idea?"

      easy, it will be when i hear a good argument proving that freedom is a bad thing.

      "Isn't it time for separatists to consider the idea of "losing conditions"?

      i don't understand the question. right now is losing conditions as polls show the yes vote doesn't reach 50%.

      "you will spend your lives on a futile, unrecognized dream."

      right. martin luther king jr also had a dream and had imbeciles tell him it was futile. current quebec of course is not segregation era usa, but i bring this up to show you how shit your argument is. moreover, i don't care if my dream is not "recognized" by you. why should i?

    21. @Kevin

      "Since Bouchard's era we've heard about "winning conditions". Isn't it time for separatists to consider the idea of "losing conditions"?"

      Oh Kev, don't you know how seppies operate? They will go back to drawing board and think up more bullsh*t (new and innovative) rhetoric to sell again party faithful, but In 4 more years, there will be less baby boomers around naturally, so shrinking numbers in their future. It's too bad, cause I'm kinda sold on Montreal being a city state.

    22. "right. martin luther king jr also had a dream and had imbeciles tell him it was futile. current quebec of course is not segregation era usa, but i bring this up to show you how shit your argument is. moreover, i don't care if my dream is not "recognized" by you. why should i?"

      You're on a roll today pinstripes, first you compare yourself to blacks in apartheid South Africa, now it's black slavery in America? You are belittling those who truly were oppressed, making a mockery of what they went through since even you admitted that what the French went through under English rule doesn't compare. Please stop bringing up people who really went through genuine struggles to obtain Freedom in the world, it's embarrassing and offensive.

    23. student Sunday, April 13, 2014 at 5:47:00 PM EDT

      "A more rude awakening than that of Tuesday morning, 08 April 2014?"

      you felt tuesday morning was rude? i'm surprised as i thought you were another basic anti-pq grunt. i'm sorry if the election result wasn't what you had wished for troy.

      I am happy for student. Truly. I am glad that when student woke up last Tuesday morning it found itself happy over the election result. I do hope that fellow posters in this blog can share my happiness for student.

    24. @montreal ville état

      " compare yourself to (...) black slavery in America"

      except the quote you propose says "current quebec of course is not segregation era usa". wtf?!? it seems your issues come down to a weakness in reading comprehension. well you know what to do mate. follow my example and study.

    25. You are completely out of line bringing up black slavery in America or Apartheid in South Africa to substantiate an empty argument. A dummy like you is too thick to understand that, or have a 'sense of occasion". You have nothing to impart pinstripes, so I suggest you keep studying, just switch to an English University though, it is quite evident that U of Sherbrooke and UQAM haven't done you any favors.

    26. @montreal ville etat

      "You are completely out of line bringing up black slavery in America or Apartheid in South Africa to substantiate..."

      i brought up a famous dream, not slavery, and it's actually troy who brought up the mandela comparison. i agree with you it was very shit for him to do so. you're a weak debater mate.


    Hah, Marios and her PQ ministers are apparently stirring up trouble by refusing to pack up and leave the National Assembly, or their offices in Montreal! Well, it's foot dragging really, but you can see bitterness and resentment!

    Maybe she's planning to barricade the doors and throw a coup. ;)

  12. “Speaking on background, a close aide to Couillard said the Liberal team contacted Marois’s people on Wednesday to set up a meeting. The response was that it would be possible to have the meeting “next week,” with no firm commitment to a time or date.

    By contrast, after he lost the 2012 election, former Liberal premier Jean Charest […] met with Marois […] just two days after the Sept. 4 election. “I know they are taking it very badly,” said the Couillard aide, while another member of the Couillard entourage described the situation as “bizarre.”

    After the 2012 election Charest took the initiative in contacting Marois, the victor, recalls a Charest staffer. Charest proposed, and Marois accepted, allowing television and still cameras to have a photo-op at the start of their meeting. “The message was continuity,” the staffer said.

    Such a classless woman… In her concession speech, not only did she neglect to congratulate her opponent, she demonstrated her true colours by not even uttering one word of English (unlike when she was pandering for votes), and she constantly referred to only certain Quebecers as “us” over and over again, as if her government’s extremely-divisive politics hadn’t hurt non-francophone Quebecers. There was no mention of her non-accomplishments about creating jobs, improving the economy, health care, education or reducing corporate emigration… only to her non-accomplishments in defending French, French, French, French. Her hubris led her to voluntarily have the shortest Quebec government mandate since Confederation in 1867. Her reign will surely be remembered as one of the darkest periods of Quebec history.

    Good riddance to bad trash.

    1. "Her reign will surely be remembered as one of the darkest periods of Quebec history."

      ...Until the next election in 2017-18, when the PQ wins a majority under the leadership of Pierre-Karl Peladeau (or Drainville or whatever monster they dredge up next; choose your poison).

      Two things to remember: 1) The PQ always comes back. 2) Each time they do, their intolerance level towards Anglophones and ethnics is kicked up a notch. Remember the Friday the 13th movies? Just like that slasher horror film where they kept making horrible sequel after sequel, so to does the PQ in its own way: Coming soon to a province near you....PQ: Part 4! The Parti Quebecois, our very own political version of Jason Voorhees. :)

    2. I'm confused. When you get fired in any company they walk you out. Walk her the hell out.

      No kidding, good riddance to bad trash! Worst, it freakin' stunk to high heaven, she is poopoo after all. She attempted to drive out legitimate citizens, taxpayers and contributors to quebec society, in the most despicable and hateful way. But, as justice always prevails, and the HIGHER powers always deliver to us...what we deserve, WE got rid of her, and her political career to boot. She will never see the inside of the National Assembly ever a politician anyway.

    3. @montreal ville état

      "I'm confused."

      i agree. you see we have some common ground we can use to come up with a compromise montreal ville état.

    4. Please don't agree with me, it compromises my street cred. Lol
      Now get lost.


    That is what I'm talking about!

    Finally, somebody admitting Montreal has been battered, bruised, abused and neglected for 40yrs. And yes, maybe we can leverage new power for this city, the time has come. Definitely...a huge step forward. Also to bear in mind, just because Liberals have come to power, we shouldn't stop talking about Montreal as a city state. Montreal has to keep thinking in terms of what is in ITS best interest, and push from there. Montreal must keep all these provincial parties on their toes. The realization has begun settling in that, it hasn't only been Anglos and Allos that have been taken for granted these past 4decades, but the city as a city has, the island of Montreal, has been as well, this is the reality that has flown under the radar for 40 yrs. Let's push forward the idea that we, Montrealers, will no longer stand for it.

  14. FROM THE FRENCH PRESS: (and it’s even non-MSM, for those with an allergy to such things)

    The PQ’s problem, in short, is not so much that of a fear of sovereignty or a referendum, but rather of fatigue and acute “fedup-itis” after 45 years of the same debate. We are simply no longer interested in the sovereignist option. There is a base of about 30-35% that is in favour of sovereignty, year after year, and that percentage has hardly budged in a good 15 years. The PQ is still counting on trying to create quarrels with Ottawa in order to stir up its option, which it otherwise appears unable to develop based on its own merits. This is simply not a promising project. For them to promise a referendum in the next term in order to satisfy the “caribous” is the kiss of death and they know it… or else, if they didn’t know it, they do now since the population gave them a big kick in the ass as soon as the question of a referendum showed up.

    In fact, those who are most afraid of a referendum are the caucus and the executive of the PQ.
    The Terrified (a.k.a. the Blue Fear)
    By Philippe David, April 11, 2014

    The campaign post-mortem has begun and in the PQ camp, excuses have already started in order to shirk responsibility for the beating that they received last Monday. They blame the media, the charter of values or Pauline Marois, but the excuse most often cited is that of fear: the fear of a referendum or the fear of sovereignty.

    Thus, according to a large segment of the PQ intelligentsia, the good people of Quebec do not know what is good for them. They simply don’t realize how much of a threat Canadian federalism is. They are ignorant of the danger that threatens French in Montreal (after all, to be welcomed in a store with a "Bonjour/Hi" is so aggressive!). They don’t realize that the Islamists are about to overwhelm us and impose their religion on us (as I type these lines, there are probably a million of them arriving at Trudeau Airport now that their puppet, Philippe Couillard, is in charge. Yes, yes, seriously!). Save yourselves! We will surely become a Muslim theocracy between now and the next elections! We just don’t realize how corrupt the Liberals are. In other words, we don’t realize how urgent it is to become a country.

    According to them, this is because we are afraid. Afraid of change. Afraid of bankruptcy. Afraid of losing our creature comforts. Afraid of losing equalization payments. Afraid of "losing our Rockies." Afraid of being afraid? For these gentlemen, I propose another theory ...

    1. What if fear had nothing to with it? Recent polls provide some interesting clues. In particular, they show that the PQ electorate lies mainly in the 50-65 age group. It has very little support in all other age groups. It has often been said that the PQ was the party of a single generation, and we now have the proof. They simply fail to create much enthusiasm among young people. However, if there is a term that applies to the younger rather than to the older, it is recklessness. Generally, it is the young who forge ahead blindly without much thought about the consequences. Necessarily, if one wants to carry out a project such as the independence of a country, it is usually young people who form the backbone of the movement. But now, young people are simply not interested. The PQ has failed to sell its project. It is not that they are afraid; it is that they don’t give a damn. The PQ’s identity and victimhood politics don’t appeal to them, nor do they see federalism as being either an obstacle or a constraint. The PQ will have to find other arguments in order to convince them. The PQ’s broken record is so worn out that it keeps skipping now. By pursuing this same discourse, the PQ is just as likely to excite young people as they are in making them listen to Pat Boone.

      The PQ’s problem, in short, is not so much that of a fear of sovereignty or a referendum, but rather of fatigue and acute “fedup-itis” after 45 years of the same debate. We are simply no longer interested in the sovereignist option, except for that hard knot of 30-35%, and we're downright fed up of hearing about it. It might be time for the PQ to listen to us. I think the message is clear.

    2. Here, here! Bravo R.S.

      Actually, I'd go as far as saying that on April 7th, we didn't just have an another election, we had an unofficial Referendum! Three times a charm? And this was a resounding NO!

  15. The really encouraging part of the post election is to see how the PQ are incapable of learning or absorbing anything.

    Just like the trolls still hanging around on this board. Even after massive rejection they think they need to double down on idiocy instead of back off it.

    It's good to see.

    Seppies will destroy themselves. People that live in perpetual fantasyland will never be able to capture enough of the real world voters.

    So good to see people expressing themselves openly now.

    Eliminate the seppie cockroaches! Go team go!

    1. Given that the PQ's raison d'être is separation, you could hardly expect them to give it up after a lost election, would you?

      Would you have considered giving up federalism if the separatists had won election after election after election?

    2. @Yan

      The separatist movement has stunted my city, FOR 40 YEARS! Damn long time for Montreal, the economic engine of the province, to be in a rut, don't you think? So...Enough.

      Montrealer's are beginning to realize it. We don't care if seppies give it up or not, we want whatever is associated with that destructive movement gone from the borders of Montreal city state, .....their sandbox far away form here. Montreal has been compromised and sacrificed for far too long, and we have to shift the grip away from seppies. Those of us who live on the island work on the island and pay taxes on the island want to see it boosted economically, since we've already waited too long. This won't happen till we hinder access to the seppie agenda. That is the reality that faces us and that we need to confront. It is not an easy reality to embrace ...but embrace it..Montrealers must! If we want to jump-start this old and rundown metropolis, we must distance ourselves from the factors that have oppressed it till now, and do things differently. Every single provincial government of this province since 1970 should take responsibility for the sad state which we find ourselves in today on the island. We can go as far as saying, it has been an ..underground act of aggression against us, sabotaging us, because we don't mimic them. We turned out to be the estranged offspring they continually show contempt for. It's been down-right criminal. This is our Declaration of Independence!

      Lastly, Couillard is treading water as far as MANY are concerned, even those who voted for him. Let's see IF he is willing to start making amends, they have A LOT to make up for when it comes to Montreal. He is on probation the next 4 yrs, and this is what we should conveying to him and his Posse... loud and clear, on a consistent bases, never letting up. Actually...this is the message Maire Coderre should be broadcasting on behalf of Montrealers to the newly elected Liberals. There is a new consciousness seeping into the essence of Montrealers, it is a tuning point...WE feel it in the air!

      It should be all about.."The Montreal Agenda" now, there will be no compromise on this going forward. They will march to OUR tune.

    3. The first order of business should be the elimination of the OQLF, on the island. This is a foreign body we no longer recognize. City hall should introduce a law whereby, every time to OQLF interferes with the promotion of or functioning of Business on the island, the Business being harasses should be allowed to call Montreal police and have parties forcibly removed from premises, and the actual OQLF representative, given an immediate Fine for trespassing.

      We gotta go ROGUE's the only way..."les chicane" can invent them too!

    4. Yannick,

      Given that the PQ's raison d'être is separation, you could hardly expect them to give it up after a lost election, would you?

      Would you have considered giving up federalism if the separatists had won election after election after election?

      Your logic does not make a lot of sense. If the separatists had won election after election after election, then they would just, you know, separate, would they not? In that case there would not be any federalism to fight for, now would there?

    5. The separatists have won elections with majorities without preparing a referendum before. That's because support for the PQ and support for a referendum are not the same thing.

      If it was, the PQ wouldn't have lost a bunch of votes when the issue of referendum came up.

      Likewise, not everyone who votes Liberal is wholeheartedly against separation forever. They might be against it for right now.

    6. @yannick

      there is no such thing as "support for a referendum". it's called support for independance. quebec bashers have come up with this cheap idea of focusing all attention on the referendum. their whole scare strategy is to render the referendum thing toxic, as it's easier to do than to try to undermine the real object: independance aka freedom. please don't fall into this trap yannick.

    7. Yannick,

      There are only four National Assemblies in Quebec where separatists hold majority: 31st (1976 - 1981), 32nd (1981 - 1985), 35th (1994 - 1998) and 36 (1998 - 2003). The 31st and 32nd are the ones formed right before and after the first referendum (1980) and the 35th and 36th are the ones formed right before and after the referendum.

      Therefore, I can not see your argument that support for PQ (presumably separatist) and support for referendum are not the same thing as valid. There is no empirical evidence that the Parti Quebecois is capable of reaching majority without the referendum (and therefore independence) issue being supported by significant portion of Quebec voters.

    8. Your arguments are usually strong, Yannick, but this one is weak.

      Essentially, every time the PQ has won a majority, they’ve called a referendum. That’s why no one believed a word of what Marois said about not holding one if the PQ gets another majority. It’s Article 1 of their program. It’s their only reason for being. That’s why she was completely incapable of excluding the possibility of holding one. That’s why she had to skate by saying this was “just” a vote for a government, not a vote for a referendum (really, a PQ neverendum).

      There might be one or two Liberals who might be in favour of a referendum one day in the future, but they are like hen’s teeth. They are not like soft nationalists who are easily distracted and hypnotized by a charter and then – whoops! – reminded of reality.

      If you count the CAQ as sincerely wanting a moratorium on referenda, the election result was the old familiar 2:1 ratio against it. It was a referendum on a referendum.

  16. Hey, of course I agree that the people are not 'afraid' of separation, since I said it earlier this week on this blog.
    If we're ripping off comedy shows: Separatists, Quebecers just aren't that into you.

    I also think that while Lisee the opportunist is now saying the PQ may have to consider abandoning the NUMBER ONE article in their platform, 2 years ago, before he was a PQ candidate, he was saying that separation is actually so much a part of Quebec society that it had been absorbed by its youth and could never die. Here's the Lap Presse piece:

    The PQ are going to tear themselves apart in their leadership race.
    It will be amusing to watch.
    But the sad part is their party is now irrelevant.

    Quebecers of today are no longer oppressed. Saying francophones are not in charge of their destiny is laughable.

    They have, quite simply, outgrown the separatist movement.


  17. "But the sad part is their party is now irrelevant."

    Are you kidding me? Sad? This is the best bloody news we've had in a long time, ....that it's become irrelevant. Hopefully, it will continue into extinction once the last of the baby boomers go. I cannot feel any sympathy for a party, who in it's last incarnation showed us the worst, nastiest and cruelest side ...of human beings. For 18 monthes I felt literally ashamed to be associated with this province. If that is what it evolved to, a racist, discriminatory party, we are well to be rid of it. Nope, no love lost especially for a party that has never demonstrated any love for MY city. Whenever it got a chance, it cut it off at the knees.....Merci, bonjour la visit.

  18. @Student

    "of course. quebec is stuck in current political pardigm until it separates, or until french canadians disappear."

    And this explains why separatism will not succeed. As a movement it has never tried to be for everyone in Quebec, it has always been only for French Canadians (actually, not always, Rene Levesque wanted it to be more inclusive but that was a long time ago).

    French Canadians won't disappear, of course, but a majority of them will identify as French-Canadians. The same as Italian-Canadians or Irish-Canadians or Ukranian-Canadians. Every Canadian is some kind of hyphenate. We're a mosaic, not a melting pot, right.

    Here's something. In the 1995 referendum 2.3 million people voted yes. It sounds like a lot, but Canada accepts about 250,000 immigrants a year, so since 1995 twice as many people have chosen to become Canadian than voted to leave it. Canada has 33 ethnic groups with at least one hundred thousand members each and 10 ethnic groups that have over 1,000,000.

    For Quebec to separate the desire to do so will have to extend not only to many more French-Canadians but also to other people in Quebec.

    It's a very tough sell and it's getting tougher everyday.

    1. of course quebec's separation is mainly a french canadian thing. the drive exists because french and english cultures are different. immigrants are very often as different to the french than they are to the english, so they are neutral from this point of view. then they see the english side seems stronger so they side with it. they emigrated to canada, so they'd like it to stay that way. enough change already or so they think.

      what they need to realize is they would also benefit from living within a nation that has completed its revolution, like the usa for example. they would be better off in a normal country than in schezophrenic province of quebec as debates would finally revolve around real issues instead of everything being tainted by the independance-dependance question.

      these immigrants, and anglophones, will forever see electoral campagings focused on national question like the one we just had if they don't support quebec's independance. and that's not very good for anyone living in quebec. the economy, healthcare and education would be better things to argue on. if they ever want to see this, vote pq next time and yes the one after.

    2. " like the USA for example " lmao - you should get down on your knees and be thankful that Canada won that particular war because this conversation wouldn't be happening today - period.
      You should also be grateful that France decided to give Quebec up - and Keep Louisiana - look how well the French language is thriving down there.
      You have no idea, do you, absolutely no idea that the reason French has thrived and survived is BECAUSE OF CANADA. The States would have swallowed you up and consumed you entirely - you'd have had quaint little traces here and there and that would be it.
      You are a French speaking nation because Canada chose to allow it - appreciation much?
      Secondly - immigrants move to CANADA because it's such an open and inclusive society - world renowned for being so - and then they wind up here with all the xenophobia - you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see why Quebec politics would be a turn off - the whole world is rejoicing that the PQ were decimated - not just the Anglo's and Allo's my dear. I've had congratulations from France - Italy - England - and tons of them from the States ( where we do most of our business ) The PQ are viewed as a racist party - world wide. Thought I'd save the last comment I received from a German associate who wrote
      " we are still living with the shame of our past politics - I'm so relieved to know it won't be happening in Quebec after all "

    3. Amen to that! Talking about the's a piece from Vanity Fair this month. Commentary on the sad state of affairs about France and what it has become...I see so many parallels to the seppies, it is mind boggling.

      Definitely an interesting read..I must say.

    4. @sicktodeathofitall

      "you should get down on your knees and be thankful that Canada won that particular war..."

      are you refering to events from two hundred years ago?!? dude you may want to update your speech. you're stuck pretty far away.

      "then they wind up here with all the xenophobia..."

      ?!? what xenophobia? there are more hate crimes per capita in roc than in quebec.

      "the whole world is rejoicing that the PQ were decimated..."

      really? please provide links to proofs of joyful reactions in the whole world.

      "The PQ are viewed as a racist party - world wide."

      so propaganda still works in 2014 it seems. that's a shame isn't it?

      "we are still living with the shame of our past politics - I'm so relieved to know it won't be happening in Quebec after all"

      and a godwin point to conclude. well at least your comment is coherent. bad from beginning to end.

    5. You are taking the whole "playing dumb" thing to a new level pinstripes. It is YOUR time you are wasting here, STUPID. No one is buying the trash you're peddling. You're accomplishing nothing trying to defend your broke-ass version of the quebec brand, especially now. Keep it up and It will still be broken tomorrow and for the next 40 years. Canada has been damn generous to you, but even the good-natured have their limits. It seems the rest of quebecers are fast realizing it, but you insist on remaining behind the 8ball. Either you get with the program pinstripes, OR you can visit the nearest airport or seaport to join your friend aussant in jolly-ole England "mate".

      Disasters of nature like you pinstripes, should never see the light of day. You are THE MOTHER of such disasters!

    6. " there are more hate crimes per capita in roc than in quebec."

      Tout à fait...Les "canadians" sont très racistes.

    7. No one in the RoC ever introduced a discriminatory, bigot, racist bill like the no-value charter bill 60. Quebecers did, live with that.

    8. Vous sous-estimez l'hypocrisie des "canadians".

    9. It is sad that you continue to live in a country you hate so much. C'est une vie...mécontente et malheureuse, c'est vraiment triste.

      Well like I keep saying, there are seaports and airports.

    10. Je crois que c'est vous qui vivez dans un Québec que vous détestez...Personnellement je ne rencontre pas souvent de "canadians",quelques touristes de temps à autres,donc aucun problème.

    11. @montreal ville état

      "No one in the RoC ever introduced a (...) bill like (...) charter bill 60."

      true, but they should. otherwise crap like this will happen again: .

      or do you think bigots should be allowed not to work with women because some god told them so?

      "It is sad that you continue to live in a country you hate so much."

      do you like quebec montreal ville état? of course you don't. you're the sad dude here mate.

    12. Well I invite you to come out of the cushy bubble you enjoy under Canada's protection, there are A BUNCH of us Canadians out here.

      I detest what quebec has spit out in recent years, closed-minded seppie poop. Only poop would have introduced a discriminatory bill like the no-value charter. This last version of the PQ is a huge lesson-learnt. You cannot give irresponsible people the privilege of Power and Governance. I'd equate it to giving a 10 yr old the car keys. That irresponsibility put us back years in terms if race relations in this province. The PQ provided permission to any citizen in this province to OPENLY exhibit racists tendencies while they governed, morally reprehensible thing, and morally unjustifiable. And that alone, damaged you quebec brand on the world stage, which none of you seem to get.

    13. @ student - " are you refering to events from two hundred years ago?!? dude you may want to update your speech. you're stuck pretty far away. "

      Dude - Mate - whatever the fuck you are - your ENTIRE movement is based on events that happened hundreds of years ago LMHO -

    14. @sicktodeathofitall

      "Dude - Mate - whatever the fuck you are..."

      just call me student.

      "your ENTIRE movement is based on events that happened hundreds of years ago"

      of course, but i don't use these events to justify anything happening today like you do. you need to fast forward mate.

    15. Would you be gracious enough to tell us how old you are?
      You sound very very young - The PQ movement uses the above mentioned events constantly - it's part of their platform for Christ's sakes............
      It would appear that when the Pequiste use it, it's completely justifable - when Anglophones use it - it's living in the past
      ( which by the way, we don't do, we're quite content looking forward ( we, unlike separatists, are NOT a backward people lol.
      By the way I'm 55 - old enough to remember when Montreal was the envy of Canada - and young enough to want to see it's glory days returned.

    16. @sicktodeathofitall

      "Would you be gracious enough to tell us how old you are?"


      "it's part of their platform"

      ?!? please quote platform,.

      "It would appear that when the Pequiste use it, it's completely justifable - when Anglophones use it - it's living in the past"

      please provide a pequiste use that you don't agree with. in the only case we have on hand, that is your argument that french canadians should shut up because canada has won a war two hundred years ago, i think it's living in the past, yes.

      "which by the way, we don't do, we're quite content looking forward"

      great, so you won't justify calls for french canadians to bow with war episodes from 200 years ago? awesome you're making progress mate.

    17. @STDOIA

      I think you're right, and ABSA makes a good point further down on his post, we shouldn't bother with seppies anymore, when it comes to pinstripes especially, one senses she still in a defeated daze. It's almost unfair how we kicked her amateur derrière today. She's irrelevant, and just like the PQ, as of April 7th, TOTALLY irrelevant. We shouldn't bother with her sorry ass. She's so distraught, (though it's her hallmark), she made less sense today than usual. Errr...she sounds rather helpless and desperate actually and we don't want to be responsible for driving her over the edge, now, do we?

  19. Funny how virtually all French Canadians outside Quebec are not in favour of Quebec separating.

    Funny how we have plenty of other cultures than are far more different than English and French and they all get along perfectly well.

    Funny how the only people who can’t get along with anybody else are Quebec separatists.

    What really needs to happen is for student to stop spouting this delusional pablum, finally digest the fact that the French lost (in order to heal its schizophrenia) and to finally accept that there is not going to be any revolution.

    But no, student has just put its fingers in its ears, said “I can’t hear you!” and will continue to try wrecking Quebec until the end of time, no matter what. If it doesn’t “win”, no one else will either.
    Oh joy.

    1. The definition of schizophrenia is: “a challenging disorder that makes it difficult to distinguish between what is real and unreal, think clearly, manage emotions, relate to others, and function normally.” (link) People with schizophrenia do not have split personalities. Rather, they are “split off” from reality.

      Quebec separatists = schizophrenics
      Quebec federalists = NOT
      French Canadians = NOT

      “Schizophrenia is a disorder that affects the way a person acts, thinks, and sees the world. People with schizophrenia have an altered perception of reality, often a significant loss of contact with reality. They may see or hear things that don’t exist, speak in strange or confusing ways, or believe that others are trying to harm them. With such a blurred line between the real and the imaginary, schizophrenia makes it difficult—even frightening—to negotiate the activities of daily life. In response, people with schizophrenia may withdraw from the outside world or act out in confusion and fear.

      While long-term treatment may be required, the outlook for schizophrenia is not hopeless. When treated properly, many people with schizophrenia are able to enjoy life and function within their families and communities.”

  20. the dude's right. jean-martin aussant could be a key to pq's resurgence.

    Le fils prodigue
    12 avril 2014 | Michel David | Québec

    Certains semblent avoir découvert avec surprise que le PQ et le projet souverainiste n’avaient plus la cote chez les jeunes. Cette désaffection ne date pourtant pas d’hier, même si la charte de la laïcité a encore aggravé le problème. La brève alliance avec les carrés rouges a été simplement une parenthèse.

    Il y a dix ans, un trio de jeunes députés péquistes, surnommés « Les trois mousquetaires », Alexandre Bourdeau (Berthier), Jonathan Valois (Joliette) et Stéphan Tremblay (Lac-Saint-Jean), en avaient déjà fait le constat au cours d’une tournée qui les avait conduits dans 25 villes situées un peu partout au Québec.

    « Ce que nous avons vu bouscule, choque et assomme », avaient-ils écrit dans l’introduction du rapport qu’ils avaient rédigé. Aux yeux des jeunes, la souveraineté était une idée « dépassée, désuète et vétuste » et ils ne voyaient pas en quoi la souveraineté pouvait apporter une solution concrète aux problèmes de la société québécoise.

    Déjà, la dimension identitaire du discours péquiste faisait problème. Il n’était pas question de laïcité à l’époque, mais les jeunes se montraient clairement agacés par la fixation péquiste sur la langue et la survie du peuple québécois, alors qu’eux-mêmes se préoccupaient plutôt d’environnement ou de mondialisation. Au total, le débat sur l’avenir du Québec leur apparaissait « bien accessoire et trivial ».

    Connaissant bien le PQ, dont ils soulignaient le vieillissement avec insistance, les trois mousquetaires ne se faisaient cependant aucune illusion sur le sort qui attendait leur rapport. « On préfère croire que la jeunesse est tournée sur elle-même plutôt que de considérer que les problèmes existent peut-être dans nos structures et dans notre parti. »

    Aussitôt rendu public, le rapport a pris le chemin des tablettes. Cette participation à la « saison des idées » a été jugée non pertinente. Malgré la clarté des témoignages recueillis, on a décrété que la pensée des jeunes avait été mal interprétée. Devant le conseil national, Jonathan Valois a dû se livrer à une séance de patinage assez gênante visant à banaliser ces irritantes observations et on s’est empressé d’oublier l’incident.

    1. En septembre 2004, c’est Pauline Marois qui avait attiré mon attention sur ce document dont personne n’avait remarqué la présence sur le site Internet. Elle avait même poussé la gentillesse jusqu’à m’en faire porter une copie à la maison. Elle gardait un oeil sur la succession de Bernard Landry et n’était pas mécontente de lancer ce pavé dans la mare, mais elle se disait sincèrement préoccupée par ce qu’elle avait lu.

      Après avoir finalement réussi à devenir chef du PQ, elle n’en a pas moins remis résolument le cap sur le discours identitaire dont André Boisclair s’était nettement distancié, avec l’intention bien arrêtée de récupérer les électeurs nationalistes qui s’étaient tournés vers l’ADQ, puis la CAQ.

      Depuis lundi, c’est à qui se dissociera le plus de la charte de la laïcité, que tous défendaient pourtant bec et ongles. Même Bernard Drainville assure qu’en définitive il aurait fait les compromis nécessaires pour conclure une entente avec la CAQ. Cela accrédite la thèse voulant que le PQ ait maintenu la ligne dure et semé la division par pur électoralisme, mais il serait trop facile de faire porter tout le blâme à Drainville, qui n’aurait pas pu agir seul envers et contre tous.


      Si Jean-Martin Aussant avait trouvé une telle audience chez la jeune génération, c’est précisément que l’argument identitaire était presque totalement absent de son discours. Il ne croyait pas à son efficacité pour faire la promotion de la souveraineté, dans la mesure où ceux qui y étaient sensibles étaient déjà largement convertis. Y recourir risquait plutôt de faire fuir les autres.

      Même s’il était favorable à un renforcement de la loi 101, tout en s’opposant à son extension au niveau collégial, ce « pur et dur » n’entretenait lui-même aucun rapport hostile avec l’anglais, qui avait été sa langue de travail pendant de nombreuses années et l’est de nouveau.

      Après ce qu’il avait dit de Mme Marois, qu’il ne croyait ni capable ni même réellement désireuse de faire la souveraineté, un retour au PQ n’était pas envisageable, mais le départ de celle-ci élimine un important obstacle. L’arrivée d’un nouveau chef dont il ne douterait pas des intentions pourrait l’inciter à rentrer au bercail, comme le prévoit d’ailleurs la constitution d’Option nationale.

      Le retour du fils prodigue ne réglerait certainement pas tous les problèmes du PQ, mais cela pourrait bien faire partie de la solution. Plusieurs de ses anciens collègues auront sans doute du mal à lui pardonner sa défection de juin 2011 et les propos très durs qu’il a tenus à leur endroit, mais le PQ n’a pas les moyens de s’offrir le luxe de la rancune.



    Article should be called. "Les Quebecois" have intrusion of reality into their fantasyland.

    It's too funny. The new Liberals arn;t going to get involved in this mess. The PQ idiots can beat the drums as much as the want.

    It's *NEVER* going be "Le Mega super depanneur du walmart"

    Start your own fucking store you lazy bastards! When they can accomplish something beyond getting voted into the top of a corrupt organization that leeches off business then they can talk to us about what companies should be called.

    1. From Ann

      I wonder how they would feel if Walmart, Best Buy etc just decided to close all their stores in Quebec, throwing more Quebecers out of work. I guess they think that would be preferable rather than see English names anywhere. These people need a life.

    2. They are so used to bullying us that they just can't accept what the laws state. Thugs and criminals - that's our unions in quebec telling the government to ignore laws and just do as they like. That would be some country to live in should they ever control their own territory. Even Mexico, with all it's crime, sounds better than what a quebec nation would be like. Murder, corruption, no laws to be followed if you don't like them - says a lot for this separatist movement. Scary indeed.

  22. Aussant who in 2012, after he was humiliated in the previous election, ran off to the fraternize with the English an YOUR conquerors? That DUDE? are freakin' desperate "mate", to entrust your future to someone who at the first sign of trouble...balks and bails...LOL

    We're good people, the seppie movement definitely on its way to extinction! heard here first.

    1. "Aussant who in 2012,(...), ran off to the fraternize with the English..."

      of course you'd be more confortable with a pq leader that can't cope with the english as your bashing job would be easier, but i wouldn't.

    2. also, don't you think taking care of your baby twins is a good reason to drop a 80 hours a week job? or is family not that important for you?

    3. It is funny, is it not, that somebody who is supposedly dedicated to Quebec separatism just run away from his own conviction when offered a position in a country that allegedly the biggest cause of Quebec being oppressed?

      Imagine if Nelson Mandela just continued to practice law instead of spending his time in Robben Island. Imagine if Mahatma Gandhi just continued to practice law instead of leading the non-cooperative movement. Imagine if Xanana Gusmao took an Indonesian government position instead of leading the guerrilla in the jungle. Imagine if Martin Luther King just continued to preach in his church instead of leading the march in Washington.

      Imagine if those great men put their families and their babies ahead of their cause like Aussant did...

      Therefore beside that fact that separatists do not have that strong of conviction, what else differentiates all those great men above with Quebec separatist movement?

      They all fought for good, worthy and noble cause.

    4. I would add to that...they sacrificed EVERYTHING!

    5. @student.

      That's a b.s argument mate. by jove, would the other faggyphones like press 9, y.l, s.r. and the terrorist mohammed agree? What do you think mate?

    6. @troy

      haha. granted aussant's not as dedicated as mandela was. so what troy? he never pretented to be this kind of hero. what a frivolous comparison troy. as if french canadians in quebec were oppressed like blacks in apartheid south africa. please troy get yourself together.

      i think aussant would have great success as pq leader: top economics credibility, limpid talk, relatively young, family man, charismatic, traveled, witty, funny, artist, polyglot and, of utmost importance, proud.

      "They all fought for good, worthy and noble cause."

      you seem to infer that quebec's independance is not good, worthy or noble. that's crazy. why would you think such a oddity troy?!?

  23. " if french canadians in quebec were oppressed like blacks in apartheid south africa....."

    No? To hear you guys tell it however, you were worst off under English rule for centuries than blacks were under South African apartheid. Isn't such an admission a huge contradiction there "mate"? What's that whole, "vive le quebec libre" all about then? Long live "free" from what?

    For the first time you admitted the truth despite yourself pinstripes...they call that a Freudian slip. You were never "oppressed", it's the bull you peddle to just keep doing whatever you want to do, a stupid excuse to exhort as much as you can from Canada, manipulate and blackmail the RoC, to feel some stupid vindication, except it's now become a filthy nasty habit. The truth comes out finally, and it's in writing! Good job pinstripes.

    1. can our community interpret this as meaning you don't reckon there can be shades of oppression? for you it's either full on or none at all? you just exposed yourself as a simpleton who appraises things based on a binary system. weak comment mate.

    2. You were never "oppressed", you've now admitted as much, with all your comments so far, pinstripes. At least you're finally admitting the truth. Incidentally, nice attempt at deflection.

      Go Energizer bunnyyyyyy

    3. @montreal ville état

      "You were never "oppressed".

      denying french canadians their own history is the best way to drum up support for independance mate. think about it.

    4. Loveeee it...g'ahead...I DARE YOU...for me and those who think like me...(we're growing in numbers), it means we get a city-state for Montreal! Scoreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

    5. @montreal ville etat

      "g'ahead...I DARE YOU..."

      you don't have to convince me mate. you need to start working on your average quebec federalist simpleton. start with un gars bs de frankfort why not?

  24. “I’m gonna dress you up like the Mother Queen
    Fuck you up like you’ve never seen.”
    – Serge Fiori, from Crampe au cerveau

    Two days after the Quebec vote, my initial relief over the election of a federalist party has given way to sadness — and guilt. And shame.

    The sovereignty dream is over, the analysts are saying, and many anglos in Quebec and across Canada are rejoicing.

    But not me. I am crying inside. And outside.

    Oh my God, what have we done, we anglos?

    Why did we fight so hard over the past four decades to quash the dream of our francophone sisters and brothers who only wanted a small slice of the North American pie that they could call their own?

    Why couldn’t we understand their desire for a nation?

    Why couldn’t we have given it to them, willingly, and shared their dream with them?

    Why did we feel we had to toe the federalist line?

    Why did we have to impose the American-Canadian dream on them?

    Why were we so selfish?

    Oh God, we were so blind. So thoughtless. So lacking in empathy and compassion . . . and love.

    Am I the only anglo who feels guilty tonight?

    Yes, this is about what I feel inside.

    I can’t deny the feelings.

    They are there.

    Guilt. Sadness. Shame.


    Ce soir, je pleure avec les souverainistes québécois.

    Je suis un Québécois.

    1. What does that have to do with what I wrote? You guys have "played" English Canada for 4 decades with the excuse that you were owed and entitled. Pinstripes there, just admitted you were never oppressed, so basically you've just been lying to get what you want. People are on to you, you've played the victim-card for the last time babes...the last time indeed.

    2. Like shit I feel any guilt over having a bunch of stupid people take over my life and welfare for me! The guy's obviously out to lunch or it's some BS separatist trying to make a point and make us feel guilt. AnecTOTE is quite right - the francophone victim card has been played for the last time and the people have spoken for what is in their best interests; not the best interests of people that seem to be a bit mentally retarded at the very least. 40 years of political bitching about nothing - time to kiss it off but they never will because they live two hundred years ago in their minds. The world is changing rapidly and they can't accept it - tough! This province needs to move on despite them.

    3. @montreal ville état

      "Pinstripes there, just admitted you were never oppressed..."

      lie. what i admitted is current french canadian condition is not as bad as blacks under apartheid. please stop lying it undermines the editor's effort at running a meaningful blog.

    4. @Cutie

      You are right. This province needs to move on in spite of them, but so does Canada. It shall be interesting times ahead my friend. For us all. And Quebecers are in for a rude awakening as well. The RoC is growing tired of paying for their free ride. I hear it all the time as I travel across the country and visit our branch offices. I keep reminding them that it's just a little group of malcontents that are miserable, the rest of us embrace Canada. Serendipitously, this past election gave that claim a little boost.

    5. " if french canadians in quebec were oppressed like blacks in apartheid south africa....."

      You're the one that mentioned the word "oppressed", which is incidentally, a loaded word, an now suddenly you conveniently twist YOUR own words around. Lol

      "what i admitted is current french canadian condition is not as bad as blacks under apartheid."

      But even having twisted your own words around....all we can say is...Exactly, you have nothing to bitch about IN Canada. Obviously YOU'VE been lying about being oppressed (suddenly, it is no longer oppressed, it is a not-so-bad-condition), just so you could get your way and blackmail Canada into feeling guilty over your alleged mistreatment under the English. You're studying LAW over at the University of Sherbrooke, aren't you? LOL

    6. Naturally, the troll didn’t bother reading/posting the update that the blogger posted to her emotional post written in the heat of the moment. She states for the record that she is not a sovereignist.

      Québec, je ne pleure pas maintenant

    7. She may feel that way and they can have 35% of the land mass - I will agree to that. But areas that are Canadian have a right to be a part of Canada and to stay within Canadian borders. Their problem is they are not willing to settle for that and that is where there is the rub! You all know me and know how I feel about partition - if they truly wanted some land to themselves, they would be willing to settle for what Canada offers - other than that, kiss my grits.

    8. @cutie003

      "...if they truly wanted some land to themselves, they would be willing to settle for what Canada offers..."

      what did canada offer? when did this happen?

    9. Why would the Gazette publish such drivel?

  25. Anonymous Buster of Shit ArgumentsSunday, April 13, 2014 at 5:22:00 PM EDT

    I have to admit, I've really been enjoying watching the trolls come back here after their loss.

    Student is absolutely seething with anger and S.R appears to have lost his will to live, his posts are all just so limp.

    Here...let me crush your spirits a little more:

    1. Seething with anger, indeed! Mate's outdone herself by posting 1/4 of all the comments this weekend. Lashing out at others is all they've got.

  26. Anonymous Buster of Shit ArgumentsSunday, April 13, 2014 at 5:41:00 PM EDT

    Open Message to the CSN:

    You are now under Liberal rule and therefore, your attempts to interfere in political matters will not be tolerated:

    Only in Quebec do you see this kind of union meddling.

    With separatism at an all-time low and four years ahead, I hope Couillard gets downright brutal.

    1. "You are now under Liberal rule and therefore, your attempts to interfere in political matters will not be tolerated"

      i guess you missed the charbonneau commision tape where we hear michel arsenault lobby jean charest.

    2. The court explicitly stated that there was no contravention of Bill 101, so what do the unions do? Insist that Couillard enforce Bill 101! It’s like these people have broccoli in their ears.

    3. They simply don't believe in law and order - this whole place would be in anarchy if they ever left Canada and would be ruled by mobs everywhere (as if we didn't have enough of that here and now). This whole separatist movement seems to think that what they say goes and to hell with everyone and every law that does not go along with them. And Couillard better not even think about overriding the courts in any shape or form - we have had enough of that with the PQ overriding the Supreme Court on various things including Bill 101 and the Clarity Act!

  27. Drainville’s half-hearted election night chanting on-stage (“On veut un pays! On veut un pays!”) was hilariously compared by Yves Boisvert to what you would hear at a Boy Scout camp, protesting when dessert was cancelled. (Un parti de vieux?)

    Boisvert also mocked the surreal scene of billionaire Péladeau talking of “solidarity” with the people and Lisée's desire to be the “guardian of our anxieties”. “It all rang false,” he says. “This cardboard enthusiasm in order to support the morale of the militants only reinforced the impression of sadness, catastrophe… and improvisation."

    Boisvert agrees that the PQ is party of old people. People don’t listen when they are busy chanting, he adds, referring to the PQ trio on stage. All the better for us!

    1. "Boisvert also mocked the surreal scene of billionaire Péladeau talking of “solidarity” with the people and Lisée's desire to be the “guardian of our anxieties”. “It all rang false,” he says. “This cardboard enthusiasm in order to support the morale of the militants only reinforced the impression of sadness, catastrophe… and improvisation"

      They took it personally, and they demonstrated just how "wounded" they were, with that sad display on stage. They showed everyone just how personally rejected they felt. THAT is what made it such pitiful scene, to the just wanted to look away. I suspect that is why popo is pulling this spiteful behavior and "dragging her feet" moving out of government offices. We can't have immature politicians like this. When you're Fired, you pack up and leave, then and there. At this point, THEY will have to be escorted out.

      As an aside, popo dragging her feet reminds me of a story I heard once. An immigrant landlord evicted a seppie tenant from one of his 4 1/2, who wasn't paying the rent for months. When he finally moved, the die-hard separatist took the bathroom door with him. LOL. They live to spite....such a grand people they are!

  28. Anonymous Buster of Shit ArgumentsSunday, April 13, 2014 at 8:27:00 PM EDT

    I'm still surprised to see anyone debating with Student.

    Everything she says for the next 1,460 is even more irrelevant now than it ever was.

    For the past 18 months, the seps came into the schoolyard looking to bully everyone else.

    On April 7th, they were given the beating of their lives. Marois beat Boisclair for worst result ever.

    No need to debate with our trolls now.

    Their "ideals" carried little water for the time their "leaders" were in power the last 18 months.

    Now, they're lucky to get any acknowledgement - so let's deprive them of that much, too.

    One quick message to Student: Parizeau and Landry are evidently going to pass on long before sovereignty has any hope of being accomplished. It's pretty clear that when both of those men pass on, they will do so in bitterness.

    Is that the way you want to cross over to the other side? Feeling unaccomplished and empty?

    Tell you what kiddo - if you ever say yes, I'll pay for the two of us to go vacation in Sierra Leone, The Ivory Coast or Afghanistan.

    We'll see what you have to say about Canada (if) we get back home.

    1. "I'm still surprised to see anyone debating with Student."

      followed by

      "One quick message to Student..."

      cool contradiction mate. keep it up.

  29. "denying french canadians their own history is the best way to drum up support for independance mate. think about it."

    History is complicated. In this case, if you want to talk about oppression it doesn't fall easily along linguistic or ethnic lines, that's why an independence movement that does is going to have a very difficult time.

    The French left behind a hierarchy that the English worked with so there was always a French and English property-owner class and a French and English working class (if we can call that before industrialization).

    Now, if the French and English working-classes had united and risen up against the French and English property-owners, that would have been a revolution. But expecting property-owners to unite with non-owners, or trying to deny that there have always been non-oppressed French-Canadians who have risen to the highest positions in Canada (even before the Quiet revolution) is historical revisionism.

    I'm interested in how individuals identify with groups - we're all members of lots of groups; ethnic, racial, linguistic, sexual orientation, political, religious - and we usually put them in some hierarchy. It looks like for the baby boomer Québécois generation the majority ranked their cultural ethnicity #1 and made it a movement but succeeding generations seem to rank it lower. It makes sense, in 1966 there weren't many ways to identify - not many people were active in the LGBT movement, for example, but for many people today that's their most important identification.

  30. The Separatists have found a new saviour to lead and rebuild their tattered party. He won 1.36% of the votes in the Montreal Mayoral race of 2013 and can only go up from there...

  31. Just hilarious!

  32. ♪♪ Quebec infrastructure falling down, falling down, falling down.....! ♪♪


    Looks like Bernie is fighting for his political life with a little bit of revisionist history, the knives must be out at the PQ headquarters. His willingness to compromise on the charter is a far cry from his statements during the hearings

    "The PQ minister responsible for the legislation, Democratic Institutions Minister Bernard Drainville, won’t budge on the bill’s only real issue in dispute – the ban on wearing such religious articles as turbans, kippas and head scarves in the Quebec civil service. It’s “an essential and inescapable condition of the bill,” he said as hearings kicked off."

    I guess it took the PQ being decimated for them to realise they need to cooperate with other parties...too bad they're not in a minority government situation any more where it would really matter.