Wednesday, October 9, 2013

Fixing Quebec: Free Post-Secondary Education

Lost in last year's great discussion on free tuition in Quebec is the fact that students pay just about 17% of the actual cost of their post-secondary education. (It's 40% in the ROC)

When students complain that even this is too high, it is in fact, like complaining about the outrageous  cost of a liter of gasoline at 22¢ or a liter of milk at 43¢ or perhaps an analogy that students can understand, a marijuana joint for about $1.25*.
Imagine Quebec motorists marching in the streets because the government proposed to raise gasoline prices from 22¢ a liter to 30¢ over five years.

Of course this is of no never-mind to students who were brought up in the age of entitlement, where the government is expected to pay for the necessities of life, from cradle to grave.

When Premier Jean Charest raised tuition prices last year, it set off a firestorm of protest, pitting students who wanted to pay nothing for their education against taxpayers who didn't want to see their taxes go up to pay for the additional entitlement.

But public opinion was largely on the side of higher tuition, because taxpayers, although in love with their own entitlements, aren't fond of paying for entitlements that don't benefit themselves directly.

And so an emboldened Charest government fought the students tooth and nail and almost pulled off an improbable election victory on the back of the tuition issue.

It's too bad that the Charest government didn't give the students exactly what they asked for, a negotiation, because it would have been a glorious opportunity to fix the bloated, expensive and underachieving education system, particularly the disaster that the CEGEP system has become.

I'll preface all that I'm saying by pointing out that the following suggestions are generally directed at the francophone education system, because on the English side, competition, that ultimate driving force of innovation, success and excellence remains for the most part, alive and well.
The exception on the English side is Concordia University in Montreal, which has been allowed to grow much too large. Without enough quality students to go around, the school dropped its entrance requirements to the point that anyone who can sign their name gets in, resulting in an academic disaster, one that has directly led to Quebec's worst dropout rate among universities (30%), a fraction ahead the equally challenged UQAM.

Now because francophones have equal access to post-secondary English education, places in all Quebec English cegeps are hard to come by and competition is fierce, leading of course, to higher standards.
It is the law of supply and demand in its purest form.

Those who are academically challenged, yet still want to go to cegep, are welcomed with open arms on the francophone side where an overbuilt cegep and university system is facing a critical shortage of students. The situation is so desperate that the schools have resorted to collapsing the standards in order to fill places. Some French schools are so desperate that they are offering English courses, much to the consternation of language militants.
The problem is not students, but capacity,

The entire cost for free tuition for post-secondary education would be about $700 million, about 1% of the Quebec budget.
It really isn't that big a deal and is actually eminently doable as there is enormous room to trim the fat.
So let me make a couple of suggestions that would make free tuition possible, without costing the government a dime;

Suggestion Number 1    Eliminate CEGEP
Quebec remains the lone jurisdiction in the North America that forces all students into junior college, a system that poaches a year of high school and a year of university, sort of like middle school in the United States that bridges the gap between primary and high school.
If the Quebec system was successful, more provinces and states would consider adopting the cegep model, the fact that nobody has, speaks volumes.

The only equivalence to Quebec cegep system are the junior college's in the USA, known a 'Community colleges' where all are welcomed without enrollment standards. For this reason alone, they are considered a joke by serious academics. These schools cater to adults wishing to go back to school for either personal or employment reasons or unsuccessful people wishing to restart their life.


The cegep system is a mistake, totally superfluous and dysfunctional, its first sin is to  rob students of the crucial twelfth grade of high school.

Many poor student enroll in cegep after high school just because they can, since standards are so low. These students aren't ready or willing to enter the work force, so pretending to go to school, ultimately to fail, is still a better choice.
As they say...nice work if you can get it!
For them, another year of high school where students are closely monitored (unlike cegep) would have been a godsend.

Like I said, the junior college system is unsuccessful in the few places world that have them, so having that system here and forcing everybody to attend cegep before college is a costly mistake.

Now I know that the likelihood of this first suggestion happening is nil, because to eliminate cegep would be an admission of failure, so my second suggestion is;

Suggestion Number 2    Reduce capacity by 25%
Quebec sends 25% more students to post-secondary than in the ROC. Unfortunately, taking in so many unqualified students leads to Canada's worst dropout rate, where about one third of students who enroll, don't earn any degree at all.
By reducing the number of students, standards can be raised, eliminating those destined to fail anyway. Right now, francophone schools are so desperate to fill places that you don't even need a high school diploma to enroll!
Paradoxically,  reducing the number of student enrolled would hardly change the  numbers who graduate.
Getting rid of students destined to fail reduces costs with no loss on the educational front.
It's a no-brainer

Suggestion Number 3    Free tuition with strings
The trouble with free education is not the additional cost, but rather the perception in the student's eye.
It is human nature to place little value on what we get for free, so giving students free education is not just about the economics, but respect.
With totally free education (and practically free education) students don't feel a pressure to succeed and spend more time loafing in school instead of diligently working on their degree.
So free tuition must be conditional, with students required to perform at a reasonable level of achievement and in a reasonable time frame.

Students who complete their degrees in the minimum time period without failing any classes could be awarded with a 100% tuition refund for their effort.
They would in fact have 'earned' their free tuition by their successful studies and would be given a cheque, representing all the tuition they paid in, upon graduation.
One lump sum, now that's incentive!.
Think of the pride that the student would enjoy in presenting the check to his or her parents, who paid for the tuition initially.
If the student took out loans to pay for tuition his or herself, imagine the joy in paying the debt off!

Contrarily, students who fail classes would forfeit the tuition that they paid in, the same for students who take light course loads and take extended vacations in cegep.

There could be a menu of incentives and disincentives, it's a matter of setting boundaries.
Perhaps students who fails a class but want to restore his or her good record (to win back their tuition) could be offered hours of community service.

And so free tuition would be an incentive to perform, not a freebie for the good and bad students alike.

I don't know how the student unions would react, I assume they'd oppose free tuition with strings attached because after all, an entitlement that requires those who benefit to contribute any measure of effort is not the Quebec way.

As I did my sums, I've actually calculated that  higher education with free tuition under different circumstances can actually work to the government's advantage, graduating as many students at a reduced cost.

The very real problem with higher education system is that both the schools and the students have a vested interest in keeping standards low, which remains a major problem.

It would take a brave government to fix the mess, so it is unlikely to happen, but free tuition can only be achieved through a total re-engineering of the post-secondary education system.

If you want free tuition, you need reform.

*"......a marijuana joint for about $1.25"
 Readers, I hadn't the foggiest idea what a marijuana joint costs until I looked it up and found out that an ounce of marijuana (from which you can make about 28 joints) costs about $190 in Quebec, the cheapest place in North America! 
The most expensive place to buy weed is in Nunavut at almost $800 an once!
There's actually an interactive website that tracks current prices in each state and province in North America. Link

120 comments:

  1. Education is a basic human right and you can't put a price on that. Why is it that people who go back to school to start a new chapter in their lives are considered losers? Doing entrance exams at a very expensive school is a liberal bourgeois concept that only benefits certain groups of people in society. Everyone should be allowed to have a shot in being admitted to colleges, regardless of the enrollment numbers. Free health care and education is usually correlated with a high standard of loving. This is one of the many reasons capitalism must be abolished and done away with.

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    1. Not even going to bother with this one...especially since ten years from now this commentor will be selling insurance for a major multi-national.

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  2. FROM ED
    Editor, your system is a wonderful idea. It would totally reduce the need for bursaries and encourage higher marks. Of course people must pay for education. We live and work in a capitalist system which by all standards seems to serve the world pretty well. You get what you pay for. Communism and socialism have failed terribly and proved the best way to get ahead is to earn it. Work hard and thrive.
    This begins with education. Students that can't pass enrollment standards are in that fix because they didn't work hard in high school. Obviously they will not do any better in college, so why waste money educating them. Ed

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  3. "Communism and socialism have failed terribly and proved the best way to get ahead is to earn it. Work hard and thrive"

    You can own property in a socialist and/or communist system. The major difference is that most of the property is collectivized for the betterment of society, some of which may not be in a position to "earn" such a privilege. These two systems serve the collective, while capitalism only serves the individual. Capitalism bring much wealth no doubt, but it has corrupted individuals and has made us forget what's really important. This is why the ancient Chinese considered worms to be better than merchants. A worm just lives its life doing whatever it does, while the merchant doesn't give a rat's bum about society, but only for himself.

    We live in an age where we put our own interests above everyone else. Education is not something that should be paid for, and neither should daycare, healthcare, hospital services (as well as things like operations). In a communist society, everyone has a place in society and doesn't have to strive for a number in order to get ahead. Everyone is guaranteed a place and through collectivized labor, a democratically elected government finances all the important necessities which humans need to survive such as communal housing.

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    1. Totally untrue. You cannot own property in Communism and socialism. In socialism the government owns every citizen. In Cuba, citizen can't leave the island without authorization from the island. In Russia, no need for a barrier, the weather forces everyone to stay in Moscow. In North Korea, the population is trapped between Chinese military and a "demilitarised zone" that contains more miltary than a military base in Canada.

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    2. In socialism, private property is definitely allowed and so it is under different variations on communism. The means of production is owned by the public at large so there is no need for mass private property. In the 1920s Russia, for instance, the major banks and businesses were owned by the state while small enterprises were public. In communal farms, the farmers gave about 20% of their grains (and then money) and would use that income to fund public housing for the workers, their salaries, maternity leave benefits, free healthcare and education and so on.

      Those states are not really communist, they got stuck at the transition phase. The reason Cuba maintains a stronghold on its people is because of the poverty brought to them by the American embargo. This is a no brainer. Same thing happened in Saddam's Iraq when its population experienced famines due to Western sanctions and more recently, in North Korea. Don't be fooled by the Western propaganda on North Korea. They don't kill their handicapped, they're not addicted to meth and so on. Many Russians would prefer to return to the communist era because most people were economically better off than they are now. Same thing with China, as is evidenced by the rise in Maoism among students.

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    3. And what exactly makes you think that quebec would not face an embargo by both Canada and the US should it turn into a communist country? There has never been a successful communist country - ever. Too many human characteristics and faults for this to ever work out for the betterment of all. I didn't work all my life to be living in a "room" supplied by the "state" next door to someone who wanted to be a bum all their life thank you. No incentive to work hard to accomplish anything which is against our human nature.

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    4. FROM ED
      Karl Marx and Freidrich Engels worked for fourty years (1840 to 1880) to find the best forrm of government. The Marxist brand of Communism was meant to be good for people. It could have worked except, when you put too much power in the hands of a small group it automatically becomes a dictatorship which is what's wrong with every communist country today. Ed

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    5. When I was young, I foolishly believed the Western propaganda that the Berlin wall was there to keep East Germans in East Germany. In reality, the wall was to keep hordes of envious Westerners from illegally immigrating to the Workers' paradise. Ah Communism! The perfect system for insects. Too bad human nature is so ill-suited for it.I suspect most of those Russians pining for the good old days of Stalin are either people who prefer to let others do most of the work or displaced former members of the secret police. Your defense of Communism/Socialism, Maoist Rebel, makes you an honorary 'Useful Idiot'. Hopefully, you're young enough to grow out of it.

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    6. "The means of production is owned by the public at large so there is no need for mass private property."

      How do you explain the shortage of food and basic needs? And no excuses that involves americans.


      "In the 1920s Russia, for instance, the major banks and businesses were owned by the state while small enterprises were public."

      Where did that lead Russia? Bankrupt.

      "In communal farms, the farmers gave about 20% of their grains (and then money) and would use that income to fund public housing for the workers, their salaries, maternity leave benefits, free healthcare and education and so on. "

      More like the Government confiscated 20 %. Read about Holodomor and Genocide committed by your idol, Stalin.

      "The reason Cuba maintains a stronghold on its people is because of the poverty brought to them by the American embargo."

      Since you have said previously that the government in a communist country are responsible for the production of necessities and you argue that population welcome the sacrifice necessary for communism, why should Cuba depend on the United States.

      "More recently, in North Korea. Don't be fooled by the Western propaganda on North Korea."
      I am not fooled. How do you explain the difference in GDP between North and South Korea. How do you explain the million of Chinese and Korean trying to leave via Hong Kong.

      "They don't kill their handicapped, they're not addicted to meth and so on. Many Russians would prefer to return to the communist era because most people were economically better off than they are now. Same thing with China, as is evidenced by the rise in Maoism among students. "

      The takers are not better off, you are right. But those people don't want to work. You have to work if you want a nice comfortable life. Unfortunately, too many are not willing to make the sacrifice necessary.

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    7. Cutie: Many societies in the past have used similar concepts to communities in the past and have lasted for centuries. Communal housing doesn't imply that you MUST live in them. Housing should be a legally protected right, as it is a necessity of life, just like food and clothing. Why should people have to earn these basic rights? It's bourgeoisie mentality and it's morally bankrupting society. Also, why should Canada and the US embargo an independent Quebec for the way it chooses to govern itself? It's just a form of neo-colonialism.

      "No incentive to work hard", you say? Why don't you tell that to homeless people that were born out of wedlock in the middle of the street and have nowhere else to turn to? Why don't you tell them that they're a bunch of worthless nobodies because they weren't able to work for a major multinational companies and make 80K a year (which is almost double the Canadian median income). The reality is that people born in a social class are most likely to stay in that social class and it's very rare that this doesn't happen. This is wrong and it must end.

      Liam: "How do you explain the shortage of food and basic needs? And no excuses that involves americans."

      In Cuba, the starvation was and is still caused by the Western embargo. A simply research will tell you this. In Stalinist Russia, the famine was man-made as peasants killed most of their cattle because they refused to collectivize their property and help other poorer peasants. In Maoist China, it's a little bit complicated. China has experienced countless famines and natural disasters that occurred in China during the feudal era. Contrary to what the capitalist media tells us, Mao did not actually run China all by himself, rather, he was in a coalition with right winger like Deng Xiaoping and Li Shaoqi and it was these people that ran the Great Leap Forward, not Mao. They were in charge of the food program and when that failed, they shifted the blame to Maoist theory and how it was not properly implemented. They claimed it was 30% human error and 70% natural factors, while Mao claimed the exact opposite. He was opposed to the program the whole time.

      Another unknown fact is that Mao was thrown out during this period and the right winger took control of the government. Mao was the general of the Communist party. Liu Shaoqi used this disaster to rally people against Mao and force him out as the leader of the country. Mao actually lost power over the Chinese government and was kicked out. This is another important fact that is never repeated when speaking about the Great Leap Forward. Its always stated that Mao was an absolute dictator and had supreme power over everything. Before Mao was pushed out he managed to get Peng Pwai purged from the government and Lin Bao as leader of the military.Another little unknown fact is that he revolution gave one the greatest increases in life expectancy ion history. This took place between 1950 and 1980. Women were given equal rights to men in all aspects.

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    8. (cont) from previous post...

      "More like the Government confiscated 20 %. Read about Holodomor and Genocide committed by your idol, Stalin. "

      Ya, would have been nice if actual evidence had been produced. The 20% tax was not a confiscation. It was part of the New Economic Policy. They had no choice but to use the cattle as a form of tax since money was worthless in those days. The only disputed genocide occurred in Ukraine in 1933, and even evidence for that is pretty flimsy.

      "Since you have said previously that the government in a communist country are responsible for the production of necessities and you argue that population welcome the sacrifice necessary for communism, why should Cuba depend on the United States."

      Communist theory doesn't mean closing one's economy to the world. Communist countries in the past have done trade with other countries. In my view, one of the biggest mistakes communist countries have ever done is mix Marxist economic theories with nationalism. Communism cares more about how to properly spread the wealth and says nothing about not using foreign resources (trade benefits).

      "But those people don't want to work. You have to work if you want a nice comfortable life. Unfortunately, too many are not willing to make the sacrifice necessary"

      They want the opportunity to work. That's the problem. Such problems wouldn't exist under a communist society.

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    9. @maoist rebel

      you're starting from scratch with liam and cutie003, as they are totally brainwashed and misinformed. you probably have already understood that. good luck mate.

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    10. "caused by the Western embargo"
      Blame America for all your problem, is that the solution? Communist can't understand the fact that because their is no incentive to produce anything, if food and housing is provided, nobody will work. In America, if I want to afford a house, I have to pay for it. It won't be provided for me by Washington.
      "they refused to collectivize their property and help other poorer peasants."
      You bet they refused. It's their property, not the government. poorer peasants can find another more efficient way to grow food, or move to a better or more productive farm.
      "Another unknown fact is that Mao was thrown out during this period and the right winger took control of the government."
      Total misrepresentation of history. Mao knew about the famine. Hong Kong-based historian Frank Dikötter, challenged the notion that Mao did not know about the famine until it was too late:
      The idea that the state mistakenly took too much grain from the countryside because it assumed that the harvest was much larger than it was is largely a myth—at most partially true for the autumn of 1958 only. In most cases the party knew very well that it was starving its own people to death. At a secret meeting in the Jinjiang Hotel in Shanghai dated March 25, 1959, Mao specifically ordered the party to procure up to one third of all the grain, much more than had ever been the case. At the meeting he announced that "When there is not enough to eat, people starve to death. It is better to let half of the people die so that the other half can eat their fill." This lead to loosing popularity with moderate leaders, perhaps most notably Liu Shaoqi and Deng Xiaoping in the process.
      "The only disputed genocide occurred in Ukraine in 1933, and even evidence for that is pretty flimsy. " The Government of Canada recognises Holodomor and so will I. You may be misguided.

      Communism cares more about how to properly spread the wealth and says nothing about not using foreign resources
      I thought the purpose of communist was to create an econmy were the governemnt will thightly control every aspect of the economy to prevent abuse, and reduce equality. If the government is forced to import product, this should result in a trade imbalance. Shouldn't the government increase production? Or can it since no one wants work?

      "They want the opportunity to work. That's the problem. Such problems wouldn't exist under a communist society." Now, you are trying to tell us that Communist country had a low unemployed rate? Are you misguided? Naive? Disconnected from reality?

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    11. FROM ED
      " The only disputed genocide occurred in Ukraine in 1933, and even evidence for that is pretty flimsy."
      The genocide was not disputed even bt Stalin. he was proud of it. He called it the 'Scorched earth Policy", detroying the farms and crops of the whole Ukraine to slow the German Armies.As he starved six million he actually thanked the people for their understanding . Even hitler never produced so heinous a crime on his own people. The Ukraine was the bread basket of Europe until jhe destroyed the fields so they would not produce foe generatiojns. I don't know where your from Mao but youn certainly aren't dcanadian. Ed

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    12. "Blame America for all your problem, is that the solution? Communist can't understand the fact that because their is no incentive to produce anything, if food and housing is provided, nobody will work. In America, if I want to afford a house, I have to pay for it. It won't be provided for me by Washington."

      Housing should be a legally protected right. It's a basic necessity for life, just like food and clothing. We need to put collective interests above our own. This is what is corrupting our society and it needs to stop.

      "You bet they refused. It's their property, not the government. poorer peasants can find another more efficient way to grow food, or move to a better or more productive farm."

      There was a drought and therefore not much editable land. If peasants had moved, they would have starved to death. Food rationing was a way of preventing and by killing their cattle, the peasants imposed a famine on themselves. Capitalists would rather make everyone else starve to death just to please his/her own greedy desires. Disgusting.
      What Stalin is really guilty of is political persecutions of his militarymen, party members and opponents of the regime. The Communist leadership was extremely paranoid about a possible challenge to its authority. This has NOTHING to do with Communism, as many right wing authoritarian governments acted in the same matter.

      I never disputed the fact that Mao knew about the famine. However, the right wing faction of his coalition program was in charge of the food program and research will demonstrate that Mao was against the program. A lot of Dikotter's sources have been proven inaccurate, questionable and circumstantial. That quote by Mao was taken completely out of context. Why would he want half the population to starve if he wanted public output in his policies? Anyways, allow me to put the quotation in the right context:
      http://www.maoists.org/dikottermisinterpretation.htm

      If you read the complete quote instead of a small sentence, it becomes clear that Mao was being sarcastic in criticizing the right wingers' food program. It makes sense, considering Mao publicly said that no one should die as a result of the Great Leap Forward.

      You don't seem to have an understanding of how communism works. It FORCES people to work and be productive in the economy. Communism does say that economies need to be self-dependent, but trade is not disallowed. Again, communist countries have done trades with other countries before. Communism is meant to reduce INequality, not equality.

      "Now, you are trying to tell us that Communist country had a low unemployed rate? Are you misguided? Naive? Disconnected from reality?"

      I'm just well informed of the vast inequalities that surround me and wish to put a stop to it. I'm sick and tired of all the nations' wealth being at the hands of only a minority of people in society and believe that it needs to be spread equally among the masses. People should also given the opportunities to have that wealth, regardless of their economic backgrounds.

      As for unemployment in communism, there was virtually none in Soviet Russia, same thing with Cuba and North Korea. Of course, they wouldn't have had famines on them if the West had not imposed draconian embargos and sanctions on them. The difference between communism and capitalisn is that the former attempts to establish absolute economic equality whereas the latter only looks after the wealthy 1%, and damn everyone else.

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    13. "There was a drought and therefore not much editable land."
      Totally untrue. The failed policy of forced industrialization contributed to a lack of rural manpower in Soviet Russia. Thus, leading the Government to start taxing 20 % of the property. Farmers, especially Ukrainians and other Eastern Europeans were decimated by policies ordered by Moscow.
      "A lot of Dikotter's sources have been proven inaccurate, questionable and circumstantial. "
      Discredit Dikotter, typical communist. Dikotter understood the failling of the Chinese Workers Paradise and wrote about it. The very fact that you label Liu Shaoqi and Deng Xiaoping as right winger shows how completly to the left of the political spectrum you are. Shaoqi and Xiaoping were moderates not right winger. Xiaoping was purged by Mao, twice and only took power in 1978 by outmaneuvering Mao's ally, Hua Guofeng. It's Xiaoping that introduced foreign investment and private competition, that allowed China to develop a moder economy. All this by the faction you label as "right wing".
      "Communism is meant to reduce INequality, not equality."
      I have to call you out on this fact. Communist is meant to reduce equality. Widespread poverty existed since companies were owned by Stalin allies. The Proletariat were reduced to struggling or forced to leave their home to go work in a industry town like Moscow or Saint Petersburg.
      "The difference between communism and capitalisn is that the former attempts to establish absolute economic equality whereas the latter only looks after the wealthy 1%, and damn everyone else. "
      The 1%, as you call them, earn their wealth. I am not in the 99%, and would definitely not consider myself unlucky. I pay taxes. I don't want to incentive those that do not work, not have them continually stay on unemployment insurance.
      "People should also given the opportunities to have that wealth, regardless of their economic backgrounds."
      You do that by working harder. Regardless, we know the benefit of communism was to benefit Stalin, not to population who were underpaid, force to live in small uncomfortable, communist apartment.

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    14. "Totally untrue. The failed policy of forced industrialization contributed to a lack of rural manpower in Soviet Russia. Thus, leading the Government to start taxing 20 % of the property. Farmers, especially Ukrainians and other Eastern Europeans were decimated by policies ordered by Moscow."

      You just keep demonstrating how you don't know zilch about Soviet history. The 1920s were considered the golden era for Soviet farmers because they actually got to keep most of their properties and could own their own territory. It's the the industrial sector that suffered the most since the govt had inherited the inflation caused by the Tsarist regime. Money was worthless because the Tsarist regime had printed more money to pay the costs of participating in World War 1.

      "Discredit Dikotter, typical communist."

      You're just butthurt that I put the quote in the right context and it doesn't fit your narrative of events.

      "The very fact that you label Liu Shaoqi and Deng Xiaoping as right winger shows how completly to the left of the political spectrum you are. Shaoqi and Xiaoping were moderates not right winger. Xiaoping was purged by Mao, twice and only took power in 1978 by outmaneuvering Mao's ally, Hua Guofeng."

      These people were capitalists and all capitalists want the least amount of government possible. This falls within the right side of the political spectrum. Take a Political Science 101 class.
      "After officially supporting Mao Zedong in his Anti-Rightist Movement of 1957, Deng became Secretary General of the Secretariat and ran the country's daily affairs with President Liu Shaoqi. Having failed to advance the “social productive forces” in the Great Leap Forward through the “communist wind” and the “exaggeration wind”, Liu and Deng shifted from an “ultra-leftist” approach to a pragmatic or "right opportunist" approach"
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deng_Xiaoping

      And yes, there was a power struggle between Xiaoping and Mao in which Xiaoping eventually took power because...Mao died. The Mao regime purged the Gang of Four, of which Deng was not a part of.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_of_Four

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    15. "The 1%, as you call them, earn their wealth. I am not in the 99%, and would definitely not consider myself unlucky. I pay taxes. I don't want to incentive those that do not work, not have them continually stay on unemployment insurance."

      No they don't. The vast majority are born into it and/or inherent wealth. It's good that you pay taxes, but it's a huge problem when wealthier individuals in society refuse to make contributions to the society you live in. These people are the scum of the Earth and are less than worm. You seem to put so much emphasis on labor and you assume that labor is out there for everyone. The vast majority of people on welfare eventually do find jobs as shown in poll after poll. It's more complicated than that, so look at the stats here:
      http://www.sixthestate.net/docs/welfare/welfareprofiles.pdf

      As is evident, the evidence does not support your claim about welfare recipient.

      "Widespread poverty existed since companies were owned by Stalin allies. The Proletariat were reduced to struggling or forced to leave their home to go work in a industry town like Moscow or Saint Petersburg."

      Wrong. The Tsarist regime was characterized by huge wage gaps and it was completely wiped out during the Soviet years. The mass poverty was mostly in the villages, of which the causes were droughts, people killing cattle and the ridiculous 10% kulak persecution requirement that Stalin had set out. Here's a quote from the book "The ABC of Communism": "The proletariat seizes the public power, and by means of this transforms the socialized means of production, slipping from the hands of the bourgeoisie, into public property. By this act, the proletariat frees the means of production from the character of capital they have thus far borne, and gives their socialized character complete freedom to work itself out. Socialized production upon a predetermined plan becomes henceforth possible. The development of production makes the existence of different classes of society thenceforth an anachronism. In proportion as anarchy in social production vanishes, the political authority of the State dies out. Man, at last the master of his own form of social organization, becomes at the same time the lord over Nature, his own master — free." Frederich Engels, Chapter 3.

      Before you make another ridiculous statement about capitalism, keep in mind that the core tenant of capitalism is economic inequality.

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    16. @maoist rebel

      cold war propaganda is still strongly entrenched in liam's brain it seems. he'll need a therapy.

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    17. 'cold war propaganda is still strongly entrenched in liam's brain it seems. he'll need a therapy.'
      Here we have a useless idiot supporting a useful idiot. Stick together guys.

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    18. I've debunked every single "facts" Liam threw at me and then acted like an internet tough guy and insulted me. Who's the idiot, exactly?

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  4. FROM ED
    Yeah right Reb. communism has worked so well for the people of Russia who use Vodka daily to get through their lives and shoot children living on the street because they can't afford to support them. The USSR had to build walls to keep people from trying to get away from communism. China probabnly has more millionaires than any other country but the people outside the big cties are eating rats and snakes to survive. 10,000 people die evry year from snake bite in the jungles while trying to catch poisonous snakes to sell for food with nothing but a burlap bag.
    You must also believe that the Earth is flat if you think communism works.
    "We live in an age where we put our own interests above everyone else. " Yes and it's been like that since time began. Taking care of number one means supporting yourself. It soundfs like you're looking for freebies or someone to do it for you.. Ed

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  5. by Mr. Mr.

    Not sure about anything written in this post. There seems to be a few flaws in though

    1. Cegeps, though not a system adopted by the US ( they are hardly an example in the field of education) allow students to be trained in a lot a fields that a university degree is simply not required and even would seem senseless to accredit as such, and lightens the load for universities.

    2. I agree that for some programs students need to be vetted, that is to say a selection process is needed, but I believe that students who seem less talented can be the ones that actually become revolutionary thinkers and successful students. Never underestimate the potential of students, even those whom seem unlikely to succeed.

    3. University has become a necessity that needs to be universally accessible. The reasons are self-evident. The skills and knowledge requirements for almost every position in the workforce have become more demanding. Moreover, there are thousands of jobs that vacant because of the lack of skill laborers.

    4. Universities need to be a public domain where everyone has access to knowledge. despite one socio-economic class, it is not for the rich and middle class anymore.

    5. Universities need to be state supported, since the state is the major investor in most of the students in the form of loans and bursaries . The government might, in fact, save money in investing in a free university instead of loosing money on default and unpaid loans.Also stop impoverishing students who, instead could invest in other projects that can stimulate the economy.

    6. It is part of human capitalist social though to assume that free services and things are lower in quality. There many examples to support this notion, but it is not always the case. If a free university system is well organized and efficient there shouldn't be a lower quality. Moreover, a socially open and transparent university might make things better.

    8. The old University system has become irrelevant and a relic of an old elitist system, and as a result, Ivy league universities still hold on to this brand, and often charge exaggerated sums of money for their brand. In this day and age a university education can be attained at the fraction of costs through the use of education technology. This development is a serious challenge to the established brick and mortar brand, and even help create a globally free and accessible university education for everyone.

    These are a few thoughts that I believe should be considered, and any strategy by universities and governments to hike student tuition is actually to justify an old relic of a system that is neither efficient in terms of fiances, content delivery, and accreditation ( for which the education system holds the monopoly), nor is it efficient in relating content to employer needs.

    There is a complete lack of a nation wide education strategy to ensure that students acquire the skills needed for a given job. There is no communication between provinces, employers, and governing bodies on this matter, and it is for this reason why we are in vicious circle, with impoverished and unemployed graduates and stagnate economy.

    Thank you


    .

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 1. In Quebec, and contrary to Ontario, it's required to attend College two year to attend University. What I believe the editor meant is that he wants the college to focus the college on professional education.
      2.Totally untrue, Montreal has more graduate than Toronto. We can't have too much university graduate.
      3. Agree, to a certain limit.
      4. I think this should be achieved by granting more bursaries to gifted students rather than a general subsidy. Personally, I would eliminate the loans system and perhaps increase bursaries to gifted students.
      5. I don't understand your point.
      6. Free university has hurt Quebec. Take the decline of McGill. For years, McGill has been referred to Harvard of the North. Now it is no longer the best University in Canada. This has ended up hurting McGill ranking.
      8. Untrue, University are centres of higher learning. They are meant to be elitist. Montreal needs to shed to Universities, since having 4 is a major cost to taxpayers.
      "globally free and accessible university " University should not be free nor should they be accessible to everyone. This is a fact. Only the best can go to University.

      Delete
    2. Mr. Mr.,

      8. The old University system has become irrelevant and a relic of an old elitist system, and as a result, Ivy league universities still hold on to this brand, and often charge exaggerated sums of money for their brand. In this day and age a university education can be attained at the fraction of costs through the use of education technology. This development is a serious challenge to the established brick and mortar brand, and even help create a globally free and accessible university education for everyone.

      You are contradicting yourself. You said that the old system is irrelevant yet Ivy League - and others not less elite - are thriving in this day and age. So which one? Is the old system relevant or not?

      Delete
    3. Universities in Europe are free, but the education is no less valued. Instead, it is simply extremely difficult to get into a good school. Everyone is tested, and one has to rank in the 10% or above to make the cut.

      The system in Quebec, where it is free AND everyone is welcome, is what is driving down quality.

      Delete
  6. I have another suggestion: Drop electives such as philosophy and music.

    If the state is to pay for your education, your education must at least make you employable.

    If you're very passionate about music and philosophy, you can master these on your own time and your own dime.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Tout comme l'étude des langues étrangères...comme l'anglais.

      Delete
    2. Congrats monsieur leTroll, you've gone and done it again.

      Maybe if you could learn English (not a very challenging language when compared to say, Mandarin or Russian), you could finally lock up meaningful employment instead of spending your days on this blog fighting for the wrong team.

      Delete
    3. The little rat can speak english as well as any of us - he just refuses to do so and thinks this is impressive. Fool that he is he thinks it is better to pretend that he only speaks french rather than be proud of the fact that he bilingual. How someone can think that way is beyond me but there it is.

      Delete
    4. "Tout comme l'étude des langues étrangères...comme l'anglais."

      Montreal City-State is officially bilingual, the mayoral candidates (one of which will become Mayor of this metropolis) said so. So I'm really not sure what you're talkin' about.

      Delete
    5. Curious, Mrs. AnecTOTE is not coming to the defense of the humanities degrees this time.

      Delete
    6. Well Yan...after our little tirade last time, I was convinced that someone as bright as you had seen the value of another point of view and learnt something. So this time, I was waiting for you to intervene.
      Let's see if you can muster up Conviction for anything.....and then, stick to it.

      And it's MS.

      Delete
    7. I would never go so far as to say that these programs should be eliminated/unfunded. I merely expressed the opinion that perhaps it should not be a free-for-all.

      Universities will admit as many students as they can, and the government will foot the majority of the bill. Ultimately, it is the taxpayer who is paying about 20-30K per degree conferred, so one should hope they get something out of it. This is not counting the drop-outs or those barely scraping by who still get to benefit from low-tuition costs.

      Perhaps if these programs were a bit more exclusive, and admission/lower tuition conferred on a more meritocratic basis, they would be more valued.

      Delete
  7. Editor,

    I have a question. It is an honest one, to fulfill my curiosity, not a criticism.

    You wrote:

    The exception on the English side is Concordia University in Montreal, which has been allowed to grow much too large. Without enough quality students to go around, the school dropped its entrance requirements to the point that anyone who can sign their name gets in, resulting in an academic disaster, one that has directly led to Quebec's worst dropout rate among universities (30%), a fraction ahead the equally challenged UQAM.

    Now because francophones have equal access to post-secondary English education, places in all Quebec English cegeps are hard to come by and competition is fierce, leading of course, to higher standards.
    It is the law of supply and demand in its purest form.


    There are more English CEGEPs than there are English universities in Quebec. Francophones have equal access as anglohones to both levels. Therefore, how is it that English CEGEPs are more competitive than Concordia? Should English CEGEP graduates not aspiring to go to English university as well? Therefore, the demands are pretty much the same while since there are just three universities for seven CEGEPs, the supplies are more limited.

    ReplyDelete
  8. http://www.montrealgazette.com/opinion/Letter+economic+hole+first+stop+digging/9015293/story.html
    More on the economic problems in the province and the PQ's latest announcements concerning jobs.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Excellent letter.

      Montreal unfortunately has already reached a tipping point of not coming back for 50 years. corruption, construction, congestion, language laws etc.

      Now it's just up to the PQ to make sure the entire province goes down in flames with their silly ideology.

      Delete
    2. @cebeuq

      Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. Montreal is definitely half-a-century from where it needs to be in order to thrive again.

      The Editor's post on Bread and Circuses explained exactly why this is.

      The separatist movement has targeted the most simple-minded faction of Quebec's society and successfully distorted the reality of facts (Example: How Ottawa is duplicating public services, when in fact it's Quebec that created additional bodies such as Revenu Quebec).

      The worst is how the culture of corruption has lethally morphed with the entitlement complex of so many Quebeckers.

      Delete
    3. Vous portez bien votre nom Sylvain Raciste et comble du malheur,nous avons les mêmes initiales.

      Delete
    4. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

      Delete
    5. Ah look, Sylvain Racine, the Editor went and protected your racist little ass again.

      Delete
    6. Editor semble vous être intellectuellement supérieur mais il est possible que je fasse erreur,quoique...

      Delete
    7. @Editor

      And there you have it sir, you're getting punked by the very opponents you welcome to your blog. So now that S.R has more or less qualified you as some form of window-licking retard, perhaps you might reconsider being as diplomatic as you are with this game-winning champion?

      I'm simply perplexed by the fact that the likes of S.R hate you and would love nothing more than to see you take advantage of your retirement and just leave. I'd go so far as to say they'd relish the opportunity to bring you bodily harm if they believed they could get away with it.

      Yet, for reasons I can't comprehend, you insist on giving them the fair shake they'd love to see you deprived of.

      Please Editor, if you watch any movie tonight, make it this one: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0253474/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

      Just because this could never happen in Quebec, it doesn't mean that the trolls on this blog don't wish this on you and the others on this blog.

      After all, their sentiment is the very reason the basis for that movie came about.

      Delete
    8. Je vous signale que votre paranoïa empire de jour en jour M.Raciste et il est possible que votre piètre compréhension de la langue officielle du Québec n'aide en rien votre trouble mental.

      Delete
    9. En passant,Polanski est accusé de pédophilie et contrairement à la paranoïa,ce trouble du comportement est difficilement traitable.

      Delete
    10. Love how any non-Quebecois is subject to all forms of scrutiny on this blog. Well, here S.R...while Polanski had sex with a minor, at least he didn't kill children: http://www.lapresse.ca/debats/chroniques/yves-boisvert/201212/13/01-4603736-guy-turcotte-un-verdict-qui-ne-passe-pas.php

      Nice to see that you support those who murder innocent kids just because they're "one of you"

      Delete
    11. "Love how any non-Quebecois is subject to all forms of scrutiny on this blog"

      L'affaire Polanski a fait le tour de la planète et je ne crois pas que la majorité des Québécois soit en accord avec l'issue du jugement dans le cas Turcotte.

      Delete
    12. What the hell does the case of Roman Polanski have to do with Turcotte? We have pedophiles all over the world as well as murderers but we don't usually give only a couple of years of jail to someone that has murdered little children. Quebec has one of the most lenient justice systems in the free world that's why we have so many crooks here. When Harper wanted to strengthen the criminal justice system, again quebec didn`t agree. Why would they? Everyone here is on the dole of someone that is involved in criminal matters.


      Delete
  9. Quebec seeks to minimize the value of education since the PQ union voter (40% of our population) isn;t capable of achieving much.

    Instead Quebec has created "professions" out of nothing skills. Validate all the street sweepers and unions with constant certificates.

    CSST certificates for climbing a ladder, driving a forklift etc. Things an untrained monkey can do anywhere else in the world but require "training" in Quebec.

    None of this is transferable to anywhere else in the world because it's all made up skills and training that anyone can pickup with 4 hours on the job instead of a year at CEGEP.

    Welcome to the entire construction industry of Quebec!

    ReplyDelete
  10. Looking more and more like an election on December 9.
    http://www.lapresse.ca/le-soleil/actualites/politique/201310/08/01-4697858-intrigante-reunion-du-gouvernement-marois-prevue-le-25-octobre.php

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Only PQ party faithful like the trolls on this board can read that and not burst out laughing.

      To the rest of us, this is like reading science fiction. To the seppies of course it's all gospel(culturally appropriate ceremony).

      ""«Le Québec, un pays prospère sur le plan économique» constituera le thème du prochain conseil national du Parti québécois, annoncera la formation politique d'ici une dizaine de jours.
      ""

      Delete
    2. And just as a reminder in case the seppies have forgotten:
      http://www.iedm.org/27-quebec-debt-clock

      Delete
    3. Cutie, when you are fully committed to separation at any cost, the cost in quebec's case will be bankruptcy.

      You need to understand that seppies are ok with that. Going bankrupt and having to make up a a new currency based on a "Riel" is part of the fun.

      We'll be riding around on trams that cost as much as underground metro's tunnels but have the added benefit of slowing car traffic.

      Cars are so bourgeois. They are only needed for the political elite in Quebec's future. Nobody else will be able to afford the gas anyway. We have public hearings into reverse a pipeline?

      That's only slightly more technical then running a garden water hose backwards. As we all know, when the water goes the other way in the hose, it explodes. That's why water hoses have a male and a female.

      The only thing about these hearings is political. There is no technical aspect at all. It's all navel gazing about "Quebecs future". It's not a bright one.

      It's all +1 here

      We are anti everything.

      As the letter in the gazette said.

      When you are in a hole the first thing to do is stop digging. We don;t understand that here.

      Delete
    4. I agree - sovereignty at any cost - that's why we must partition this place so some of us can survive and thrive. No reason we all have to go down with them!

      Delete
  11. "Tout comme l'étude des langues étrangères...comme l'anglais."

    I remind you, S.R alias Sylvain Racine, that in Canada and its provinces, English is not a foreign language. German is a foreign language to a Canadian, but neither French nor English are.

    Maybe English is a foreign language to you because you have no clue how important the knowledge of English nowadays is. Not only that: more and more worldwide companies require English as a condition to be hired and it's getting more and more difficult for people like you to get a job with no English (which is normal to me: no English, no job). Even in Germany and Italy, the knowledge of English is a requirement to be hired, it's a "Muss" if you want to get ahead. Of course, this does not hinder you from speaking or learning other languages, BUT without English you will go to a certain point in your life: after that you will be surpassed by the others who have English as jolly.

    I am gobsmacked that in 2013 there are still people who question the necessity to speak English. How could we take your separatist project seriously, S.R.???

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. he didn't question the necessity to speak english mate. he just said english was a foreign language. there's no link between the two. are you part of the 42% canadian illiterates?

      Delete
  12. FROM ED
    Mr.Mr. Is ignoring the fact that education is a cumilative system. You must carry with you from elementary school the basics which will allow one to learn high school sujbjects. Entering college requires high schoolgrounding that combines and prepares one for university. There are too many kids who can't read and write at a level that would allow them to accomplish anything higher than high school. University cannot be open to everyone, we must prove ourselves capable of handling the subject matter.
    Our very lives are built on the same system that as you grow you learn ways and manners which you sustain to enable enrichment of life. I'm sorry but you just can't start at the top.
    Editor is proposing a system which would allow those who think they can and still allow the dedicated to prosper. Excellent.
    Ed

    ReplyDelete
  13. My biggest criticism with CEGEP as an integral part of education system in Quebec is that it makes Quebec system incompatible with virtually everybody else in the world.

    The education system adopted in the Rest of Canada, the Rest of North America and the rest of the World for someone to get a Bachelor degree is:

    6 years high school + 4 years university.

    In some jurisdictions, 6 HS can be split into 3 junior high / middle school + 3 senior high. However, they are still secondary school.

    Quebec system:

    5 HS + 2 CEGEP + 3 university.

    As CEGEP is considered as college, a tertiary school, Quebec students study for 5 years in secondary and 5 years tertiary. How is this incompatible? Other systems can not accept new students with only 5 years secondary. Therefore, if a Quebec HS graduate wants to continue his studies outside Quebec, he has to finish CEGEP and then enroll in the university as a freshman. Therefore, he wastes one year of his study.

    Some Canadian universities understand the situation and allow the student to transfer his credits so that he can start as a sophomore. However this process is on case-by-case and not automatic. If the said student wants to continue the study outside of Canada, forget it. His 2nd year is CEGEP is completely useless and he has to undergo the full 4 years of university study.

    Note: A number of major countries in Continental Europe had different system to get Bachelor's degree. However, since the Bologna Process in 1999, the systems are uniformed into a model that appears to follow the American model, which is 6 years elementary, 6 years secondary (or 3+3) and 4 years tertiary.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. In new brunswick we had 4+4+4. I believe this happens in the US as well.

      Delete
    2. @Troy
      In my experience anyone who cannot get credit for 1st year CEGEP as a final year of HS isn't trying hard enough.
      I know students who were even able to start an out-of-province university right from grade 11.
      -Kevin

      Delete
    3. Kevin,

      Answer me this, are those students you mentioned the exceptions or the norms? Besides, just as the Editor pointed out, if CEGEP system is so brilliant, why does nobody else in the world use it?

      Delete
    4. @Troy,
      Let me put it this way: the ones who couldn't get credit are the same people you wouldn't bother hiring for any position.

      As to you second question: look up the history of Quebec in the 50s and 60s, then produce a comparison with educational streams elsewhere in North America.
      Essentially the CEGEP system cannot happen anywhere in the USA, and most of the rest of the country lacked the post-secondary educational facilties (even if somewhat substandard) to be transformed into a cegep system.
      Heck, Quebec has government-funded universities that are older than some provinces!

      -Kevin

      Delete
    5. @troy

      "why does nobody else in the world use it?"

      it's a hidden gem, mate.

      Delete
  14. And here you go Liam:
    http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Macpherson+Fixed+date+election+impediment+fall+vote/9016754/story.html
    Again, she will do as she pleases - power hungry tripper.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And now a prediction of November 6 for an election. Wonder what the rush is Miss Piggy? Don't want the public to know what is going on?
      http://www.cjad.com/CJADLocalNews/entry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10600393

      Delete
    2. At least some countries are moving away from discrimination:
      http://www.bustle.com/articles/6518-turkish-government-lifts-ban-on-headscarves-in-government-jobs

      Delete
    3. @Cutie003

      Revealing what's going on with the balance sheets is the PQ's worst nightmare.

      Their only goal is to accomplish sovereignty - at ANY cost, meaning that the type of people who subscribe to such absolute-minded dogma will shrug off necessities in order to get what they want.

      The trolls here are no different.

      They fail to understand that you need to produce the money you spend.

      You can hate the LIberals up and down and every way from Sunday, but at the end of the day, they made sure that if they pledge funding to a new project, they had a source of revenue.

      Since coming into power, the PQ keeps spending, spending, spending...but not producing.

      Look at how they had pledged to give aid to Africa. Hello? Our own infrastructure is crumbling and we're going to swoop in and "save" someone else (all pundits stated that the PQ's contribution would barely make a dent anyway).

      Now they're pledging $2 BILLION dollars to create a few jobs?

      Man, I wish I could operate that way.

      "No, no Mastercard, don't worry, I'll give you $500 in two weeks. I've no way of producing it, but hey, that's just what I'll tell you."

      Anyone running their own personal finances the way the PQ has been running the public purse, would not only be bankrupt by now...they would very likely be in jail too.

      Delete
    4. Boy I would love nothing better than to put some of these liars and spendthrifts in jail. You're right; as a private citizen we would be in jail.

      Delete
    5. @cutie003

      the only ones we know didn't balance the budget ever were the previous liberal government. you'd like to see them in jail too cutie003? or do you have a double standard for these things? or no standard at all and just conditioned negativity towards the parti québécois?

      Delete
  15. «Je pense que quiconque cède au plus petit dénominateur commun sur ces sujets en payera le prix à long terme.»

    http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/politique/201310/09/01-4698187-limage-du-quebec-est-ternie-par-le-debat-sur-la-charte-des-valeurs-dit-mulcair.php?utm_categorieinterne=trafficdrivers&utm_contenuinterne=cyberpresse_BO2_quebec_canada_178_accueil_POS1

    Thank you Tommy, for calling it like it is - only the lowest denominator of Quebec society supports the charter.

    ReplyDelete
  16. CHUM Research Institute Unveiled
    http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/montreal/million+CHUM+research+institute+opens+time/9011415/story.html
    "Despite the apparent success of the project, Health Minister Réjean Hébert said the Parti Québécois government has no plans to launch new PPPs." Typical separatist. Why shouldn't the private sector have to take responsibility if the project is over budget? Well because Pauline and her Union buddies won't get a cut of the profit. Mais oui!
    "said the research facility will rival many in Europe and North America." Totally not true. Montreal is unfortunately years behind. We haven't been investing enough in higher learning and medical research. Why? Well we have to pay for cheap University fees, daycare, in vitro fertilization, and other social program.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. why do you say it won't rival many research facilities in europe and north america? gut feeling?

      Delete
  17. Free education is not a myth. You can see that in Europe.
    The problem is that there, the number of students is set by the government.
    In Quebec, each University has the freedom to add as many students want and the government is transferring funds to universities. In this way each university has a plethora of useless programs and studies. In this way the universities are some kind of financial black holes.

    ReplyDelete
  18. I graduated from the joke (a.k.a. CEGEP) 35 years ago and I thought then it was a joke. One day on CJAD, back when it was still a good radio station as opposed to now barely being a shadow if its former self, some education expert stated that CEGEP was invented in part to give the French kids two years to catch up to the English. For me, except for the math courses, CEGEP was two years of being in suspended animation! So here we are a good 40 years after the CEGEP system was introduced and it hasn't done anything positive. Some say the extra year of school was brought in to defer kids from entering the workforce one year to relieve the high unemployment rates back then. Unemployment has increasingly become a chronic problem since the 1960s finished so nothing was settled.since the 70s. A totally useless program.

    I was sent a pledge card by my alma mater, Concordia a couple of years ago. I wrote back for them to take me off their alumni list. After all the scandal that was going on with gigantic payoffs and the way Israeli Prime Minister Netenyahu's planned visit was scuttled, I told them what to do with their canvassing for donations. It wasn't pretty, let me tell you. I'll never forget how the CTV National News ran a story of the tensions between Jewish and Arabic students, the very night before 9/11. That story to me sometimes serves as an omen to what occurred the next morning in New York.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Man, I wish I had the free time to create a site like that l'Obsitneuse chick - liberaux.net but for the PQ.

    In just over a year the PQ has already racked up enough shit on itself to have a huge website.

    Just look at this morning's headlines alone:

    "Des péquistes freinent un projet pour mettre à nu les finances publiques"
    http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/politique/politique-quebecoise/201310/09/01-4698266-des-pequistes-freinent-un-projet-pour-mettre-a-nu-les-finances-publiques.php

    "Un rapport du ministre Marceau sous la loupe du vérificateur général"
    http://www.lapresse.ca/le-soleil/actualites/politique/201310/10/01-4698289-un-rapport-du-ministre-marceau-sous-la-loupe-du-verificateur-general.php

    "Plan Priorité emploi: 700 000 $ en publicités"
    http://www.lapresse.ca/le-soleil/actualites/politique/201310/09/01-4698245-plan-priorite-emploi-700-000-en-publicites.php

    What's funny is the PQ knows the writing's on the wall. Anyone with half a brain can sniff the panic.

    Also, since they betrayed the students since the last election, they know they've lost quite a few votes to QS.

    If their economic management gets exposed prior to the election, not only will they lose, but this tired party will finally be wiped off the map BQ-style.

    Sweet dreams Marois...at least you'll always be able to tell people your were Quebec's first female premier.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Vous ne pourrez jamais effacer ce tag : liberals = corruption

    Désolé.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No one's arguing with you on that point. Contrary to what you believe, half of the people on this blog don't care about the Liberals.

      WHAT I AM SAYING is this: The PQ is equally as corrupt, and that is becoming increasingly evident. You can't deny that.

      Secondly, the Libs might be as corrupt as the PQ, but at least they're competent. In just one year, the PQ has annihilated our economy. That's another fact you can't deny.

      Delete
    2. "Secondly, the Libs might be as corrupt as the PQ, but at least they're competent."

      ?!? please list their economic achievements in the period 2003 to 2012, with a focus on the budget deficit.

      Delete
    3. After a year and a half of PQ-ers yelling that the Liberals are corrupt, and stating it as a fact, there's been very little in the way of actual proof or charges. All the UPAC meetings seemed to have only culminated with a couple of doners having been charged with giving too much money.

      Delete
    4. @Student - and where are your numbers mate?

      We're talking about how the PQ is clearly corrupt (perhaps you decided to ignore that the FTQ admitted to helping rig the elections) and all you can talk about is the Liberals.

      Another shit argument busted.

      Delete
    5. @thatguy

      you might not be familiar with www.libéraux.net. check it out. you'll learn. if you think the site's author is biased, just click on the links to newspaper articles related to each scandal.

      @sylvain raciste

      "and all you can talk about is the Liberals."

      you brought up the liberals in your comment 10:20 and made a claim about them. you need to support that claim. not me.

      Delete
  21. People who dismiss CEGEP in favour of an extra year of high school and a 4-year university degree have, as a rule, missed the point of the institution.

    Sure, I spent an extra semester in CEGEP. Why is that considered a failure? I, like many, started in Pure & Applied Sciences but left that program because I realized I despised lab work.
    Would it have been better for me to go to university and then drop out of a BSc. program? Because that is what happens in universities all across North America...

    It's not like my five semesters were wasted. I got to take advantage of many things that my high school just did not have (school newspaper, radio station, teachers who were not to get me because I pointed out they were not being fair when I was 11 years old, cliques that had been formed when we were all in kindergarten).

    It was those extra facilities, and the freedom to explore granted by the CEGEP system, which allowed me to choose an area of study and embark on a successful career that has taken me across the continent, and back to Montreal, where I am at the top of my field.


    Much of the same argument can be made for Concordia University. It is ridiculous to evaluate this Dr. Moreau-creature of a school as a whole (much like it is ludicrous to go to McGill for an undergrad). Instead you have to look at the individual departments with their wildly different backgrounds and see which ones are strong and which ones are weak.
    Who on earth came up with the notion of merging a Jesuit school with a night-study program? The very idea boggles the mind. Yet it has produced an excellent business school, co-op students in biochemical research, multiple Oscar winners from the film department, some of the best journalists in the country, etc...

    -Kevin

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Kevin,

      People who dismiss CEGEP in favour of an extra year of high school and a 4-year university degree have, as a rule, missed the point of the institution.

      What is the point?

      Yet it has produced... multiple Oscar winners from the film department...

      Who?

      Delete
    2. Right on Kev, I agree wholeheartedly.

      I was in my second year of CEGEP when I realized I was heading in the wrong direction, studies wise. It allowed me to make a sharp right turn and get into a field of study that I was really interested in and has served me extremely well in my career, always had a great job and never had to move anywhere. Had I been in University, I may have felt pressure to just keep on the path I was in, because of the time and money already invested.

      It is too bad some people feel CEGEP was a waste of time for them. They should have quit and done something else in the meantime,… like worked, and then, made their way back to school or something, Cont’d ED or whatever. It is their own time they wasted, no one else’s, pretty sad. I would hate to look back and think I spent mine doing something that was completely futile to me, sad and dumb actually.

      At any rate, the CEGEP years were well spent as far as I’m concerned. The field of study I undertook, and yes, I did obtain a Liberal Arts degree, has served me exceptionally well. But I know several people who studied one thing and today, are earning a living in a completely different thing. I know an Accountant who is a Real Estate Agent, a Banker who quit and now runs his own Restaurant a former operating room nurse who is trying her hand at writing. I think we're failing to see the big picture, when we undermine certain disciplines. An education, is an education..IS AN EDUCATION. What's important, is that you get one. A degree in anything will serve as a stepping stone to launching a successful Life, for the most part. At the end of the day, it does come down to the individual and his/her ability to make it work for them.

      Personally, I believe and continue to believe, that courses such as Humanities, Philosophy and Literature are a must, in any student’s Life. If a student will take these course, then you need someone to teach them, and thus graduates in such areas. It is a shame to meet people sometimes, who are practically…quasi-geniuses, but can’t express themselves worth a dime. I honestly do believe such courses contribute to a person’s refinement, culture and quality as a human being. With all due respect, some things, you just can’t learn if all you’re doing is figuring out E=MC2 all day, and nothing else.

      Delete
    3. @anectote

      "I believe (...) Humanities, Philosophy and Literature are a must,..."

      why didn't you study philosophy then mate?!?

      Delete
    4. @Troy
      Upon doing further research I realized I made an error. There are multiple Concordia Grads with awards (and many more nominees) but not all from the film department. Some are from Comm. Studies.

      You can look them up yourself. Start with Canada's foreign-language entry from last year and work backwards. Maybe you'll learn something!


      -Kevin

      Delete
  22. FROM ED
    Sylvain, it really angers me when I see you agreeing with the troll that Liberals are corrupt. T hy are not corrupt. They are the cleanest party we have going. there has not been a whisper of corruption on their part except for one incident of party financing which was done before the law was changed and therefore actually legal.
    The reason the police raided the party offices and showed up at Couillards door is because they ere sent there by the separatists to give an appearance of wrong doing. They are trying to make Liberals look corrupt to win the election coming and why not, we seem to be stupid enough to fall for it.
    If we end up with another four years of PQ it will be because we let them lead us down the garden path and did not stand up for the good guy. Ed

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Agree, Can any separatist name a Minister of the Liberal Government charged with corruption? No.

      Delete
    2. tony tomassi, david whissel, michèle courchesne, gérald tremblay, nathalie normandeau, line beauchamp, jean charest, jean-marc fournier and houda-pépin's cases are documented.

      but most probably all of them were corrupted, as they were forced to raise 100k each for the party every year to keep their minister's seat. that's also documented. of course their sponsors expected a return on investment. and that's what corruption is.

      Delete
    3. Hmm odd how most of those names you threw out have never been charged with anything, and some of them not even tangentially implicated in anything, but yes well documented cases.

      Delete
    4. If that's the game we're going to play, how about corrupt separatists like Andre Boisclair, Pauline Marois, Gilles Duceppe and all those filthy biker-backed union leaders who helped the PQ with unethical electoral rigging?

      Delete
    5. @thatguy

      look them up on the internet. if you don't find anything wrong with any of them let me know i'll help you out.

      @sylvain raciste

      you think i should have answered liam's question about liberals by listing pq affairs?!? this would have been disrespectful for him. why don't you respect liam sylvain raciste?

      Delete
  23. http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/Many+jobs+fair+aren+living+hope/9018141/story.html

    “We can’t just stay home and collect unemployment. Everyone tells us that’s what it’s for, to help us through, but it’s indecent, really indecent. We have our pride.”

    Oh no. Another dirty immigrant that's not absorbing true Quebec values.

    Pride in working for money? Clearly he hasn;t learned a single thing from living in Quebec despite the fact he might speak a little french. Is this normal? Is this natural that he can have other values then the majority?

    Clearly only mother tongue french is the only criteria that we can use to find our pure brothers.

    How is it that after all these years in Quebec he doesn;t understand that real PRIDE comes from having a $100K job with the FTQ doing absolutely nothing all day.

    Only by sitting around in the union circle all day at the construction sites watching the world pass you by, massively overpaid can one appreciate the true PQ culture.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Note that the people featured in this article are trained in technical fields, and one of the problems cited is layoffs. So it's not people with degrees you would probably consider "useless", and it has less to do with universities than with the economy.

      The problem is that university degrees do not match the economy, and cannot match the economy under the current system. As a result, many university graduates are left with a diploma and no job. The problem is that there is a disconnect between the educational system and the corporate-run economy. For example, there is no way to predict how many Comp Sci graduates the economy will need next spring. And if many are needed next spring, who knows if the CEO of IBM or CGI doesn't decide on a whim to lay off a couple thousand programmers and engineers in the summer and offshore the work to a cheap labor market like India only to shore up his company's stock options? Corporate entities are like that: completely unpredictable, unaccountable, and socially irresponsible.

      About "having a $100K job with the FTQ doing absolutely nothing all day", it's true that many jobs in the public sector are pretend-jobs, just like much of construction work in Quebec is finding "problems" where no problems exist only to "fix" it, and much of police work is done on "crimes" invented to justify the existence of so many police departments, etc... much of work in the private sector, contrary to popular belief, is also pretend-work. With manufacturing and increasingly technical work outsourced to cheap labor markets, corporations in North America are filled with people called "managers" who hold degrees called "MBA". This is basically an army of useless people who invent stuff for IT people to do, only to have the stuff undone a few days later to go back to the starting point. There are also client relations people, i.e. people companies use to suck up to rich inventors.

      Even professionals are mostly bogged down in bureaucratic work. Fewer and fewer engineers design, few doctors operate, etc...most just sit and fill out papers all day.

      If we had an economy where only useful work was done, we'd have 80% unemployment.

      Delete
  24. Mayor of Detroit gets 28 years in jail for the very same things our mayors still do.

    http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2013/10/10/sentencing-underway-for-ex-detroit-mayor-kwame-kilpatrick/

    “I think everyone here understands Mr. Kilpatrick was convicted of running a criminal enterprise,” Judge Nancy Edmunds said, adding the enterprise started while he was still in the state House of Representatives and continued through all six years he was in the mayor’s office. Edmunds said the scheme to steer contracts to pal Bobby Ferguson made projects more costly for a city that couldn’t afford it and drove contractors out of business."

    28 years in jail.

    In quebec culture years how many years in jail will Villenueuve etc get in Quebec?

    Zero, absolutely none.

    They will get slightly embarrassed, drag the cases out for years and eventually be let off with suspended sentences since the new crop of politicians really really want to bury this as fast as possible and get back to scamming us.

    Quebec culture. No criminal act is worthy of much punishment unless committed by a mental incompetent like the guy that tried to get Marois. Everybody else gets a revolving door right back out onto the street as fast as possible.

    Is it any wonder that we have systematic stealing from each other at all levels of the civil service in Quebec? There is little to no downside. Worst case you get a slap on the wrist if you speak the right language.

    ReplyDelete
  25. http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/politique/politique-quebecoise/201310/10/01-4698438-charte-lisee-critique-les-candidats-a-la-mairie-de-montreal.php
    Time for partition starting with Montreal and then expanding. Come on Montrealers - get busy and get a good strong movement going to get the hell out of quebec before you are ruined even further.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes Montreal has to leave Quebec. So does Pontiac and join Ontario.

      http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/politique/politique-quebecoise/201310/10/01-4698448-peladeau-participera-encore-a-des-comites-ministeriels-dit-marois.php?utm_categorieinterne=trafficdrivers&utm_contenuinterne=cyberpresse_BO2_quebec_canada_178_accueil_POS1

      Peladeau appeared in Quebec Cabinet. Not even elected, and still a sitting member of Cabinet.

      Delete
    2. Liam, you know one of the tenants of "Quebec culture" is it's not really a democracy. It's a nanny state masquerading as a free economy.

      Unelected friends that own some of the biggest companies int he province hanging around is how the corruption is setup.

      You think it's pure business sense that got Videotron to the top of Quebec shit pile? or maybe some politicians had something to do with it and now it's payback?

      How many billions of the new "electric tramcar" will flow directly to Bombardier. They might as well have called it "Bombardier hopefully saves our employment".

      Imagine how many more billions Bombardier will get. The govt will have to kick in even more to give them a free plant, upgrades etc.

      Anybody else remember back when Cartierville was an airport that we *GAVE* to Bombardier which they then turned into a massive property development?

      Crony capitalism at it's best in Quebec.

      Delete
    3. Liam - Don't forget US! The Outaouais! Wish we were a part of the Pontiac but no luck with that so far.

      Delete
    4. Cebeuq, you are totally right. Do you think that Videotron is happy now that they have a stadium build by the Quebec, with it's future deficit paid by Quebec city, if the NHL does't establish itself in Quebec city. Reminds me of the Montreal Subway deal where the province wanted to sole source to Bombardier. Alstom took the province to court!
      I believe our first priority is to get Pontiac and Montreal out Quebec. The anglos in Pontiac are tired of Quebec city bureaucrats coming in their towns. Also, they keep loosing population, year after years. Montreal needs to leave, too for the same reason. After that, Outaouais should leave you are right.

      Delete
  26. Premier Economic Action Plan

    http://www.lapresse.ca/debats/debat-du-jour/201310/08/01-4697812-plan-marois-2-milliards-bien-depenses.php?utm_categorieinterne=trafficdrivers&utm_contenuinterne=cyberpresse_lire_aussi_4698448_article_POS4
    " Pierre Simard

    Professeur à l'ÉNAP à Québec et fellow senior de l'Institut Fraser

    Je ne voudrais pas faire mon rabat-joie, mais s'il suffisait d'essaimer les subventions pour relancer la croissance économique, on le saurait depuis longtemps. Cela fait des dizaines d'années que les gouvernements québécois annoncent des programmes de stimulation économique censés nous rendre riches et prospères. Et puis? Rien! Notre économie traîne toujours de la patte par rapport au reste du Canada et des États-Unis. Aujourd'hui, bien que nous soyons les plus taxés en Amérique du Nord, nous peinons à atteindre l'équilibre budgétaire et nous croulons sous une dette de plus de 250 milliards de dollars. Qu'importe, notre ministre des Finances, Nicolas Marceau, l'a clairement expliqué à la télévision: «Le problème qui se pose, c'est celui des revenus. Ce n'est pas celui des dépenses.» Alors, dépensons! Annonçons des dépenses publiques de 2 milliards de dollars. Étayons notre politique économique d'un lot de promesses floues, mais attrayantes. Oui, voilà le grand secret qui nous a été révélé hier: le Québec est pauvre parce qu'il ne dépense pas. Hum... il faut que j'en parle à mon ignare de banquier, pour qu'il augmente ma marge de crédit."

    Mr. Simard is totally right. Those separatist will bankrupt the province. What is wrong with the province? Excessive bureaucracy. Who is running the show? Minister Marceau who never worked in the private sector, like all separatist.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Another thing I noticed on the map is the fact that New Brunswick is faded, but Labrador isn't. Does Pauline expect Labrador to join her on her delusion to statehood? Good luck convincing Northern Quebec! Another thing, I noticed is the fact that Outaouais and Montreal are faded. Is it not important to create jobs, here too? Whats up with that? Are we apart of la Province de Quebec?

      Delete
    2. If they think that Labrador will have anything to do with the notion of leaving Newfoundland, especially now, they are in for a rude awakening. They would be in for even more of a rude awakening if they also believe the natives have any interest in leaving Canada. This place is so ready for partitioning!

      Delete
    3. "I noticed on the map is the fact that New Brunswick is faded, but Labrador isn't. Does Pauline expect Labrador to join her on her delusion to statehood? Another thing, I noticed is the fact that Outaouais and Montreal are faded. Is it not important to create jobs, here too?"

      paranoid hysteria.

      Delete
  27. When the New Brunswick Liberals got in under Shawn Graham, their Student star-candidate (who is now the leader of the party) had gotten them to promise a 1500$ lump sum given out to all first-year students. The students I knew who received it, like my cousin, used it to buy a laptop.

    Taxmoney well-spent that was. Urgh.

    It is much more efficient/useful/fair to offer the money as a REWARD for FINISHING, presumably on time and with good grades.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes Yannick - the money should only be provided to those that are working for it and accomplishing something in a given time frame. God, this province has more permanent students than any other and way too many useless courses. Increasing the number of trade schools would also be a good way for this money to be spent. Not everyone is an academic and we always need electricians, plumbers, air conditioning and heating experts, refrigeration mechanics, etc. Instead of taking courses that are not going to give anyone a useful way to make a living, encourage them to take up the trades and courses in how to run a small business. Small businesses can also be run without the help of the damn unions that are driving the costs up so much. The government should only be allowed to give out exams, in both OFFICIAL languages, and once these small companies have their papers, they could be free to operate on a competitive basis without the damn unions setting up pay scales and encouraging the companies to collude on everything they bid on. I think that would be too sensible for this province - totally under the control of unions from every walk of life!

      Delete
    2. More signs on FB that an election will be called for December 9. Let's keep up the good work of getting rid of the PQ by a huge margin and make sure you get out to vote! Very important election so if you plan on going south, make sure you vote before you leave! This one is going to be hard to call.

      Delete
    3. I had a friend whose mother was a perpetual student. She lived on a number of generous government programs for her to go to school, she took a class or two per semester, didn't show up, and failed them.

      I don't know where she is now, but she was a terrible example to her child.

      Delete
    4. FROM ED
      Yannick, I seem to rcall a few years ago that some governments were giving money tp buy laptops.for high school. Ed

      Delete
    5. Yep. My uncle was part of the pilot project. Another stupid idea, but by Graham's predecessor, Bernard Lord instead.

      Delete
  28. FROM ED
    Cutie, an election is exactly what we need, but we must protect the Liberals from libel. S.R. and student are out tp detroy the Liberals which is understandable since Libs are able to destroy them. Over the past few days I realize the trolls are convincing people there is corruption in the Liberal party by cionstantly repeating the phrase. People begin to think it must be true because they've heard it so many times before. This is how we lost the lat election and they are starting again. Saying things like "Oh yeah well the Liberals may be corrupt but the PQ is worse " only helps to convince others that the Libs must be corrupt. The trolls are using this blog to work against us and getting away with it. When the troll speaks of Liberal corruption we must remind him that there is none but the PQ has corrupted 6 million people.
    Editor did a post not long ago on how a thing said often enough becomes 'reality'. We can't let it happen. Ed

    ReplyDelete
  29. Conrad Black: Paul Desmarais was always a builder

    http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/10/09/conrad-black-paul-desmarais-was-always-a-builder-never-merely-a-speculator/

    RIP Paul Desmarais

    ReplyDelete
  30. Various societal alternatives have been proposed at various time. For a simple example of that just browse through the Mars Trilogy of Kim Stanley Robinson. In short, education, housing, healthcare and work are all rights freely available. We don't have that yet and the reasons are complex. To simplify it should be enough to say that when the premise is skewed the result can be no different. The main problem is the outlook of our society which is extremely short term. This in turn caused the development of short term view constructs such as corporations, fractional reserve economies and profit centric outlooks. After all we've convinced ourselves that value equates with the unit of measure (think money vs value). The value of a chair is not $x nor is it 2 feet or 3 pounds. It's what one can use it for. Even still 300 years ago people were building for the ages. Not so today. A consumer driven society needs consumers to function. It is after all a giant ponzi scheme. While I therefore agree with the initial post one must also realise that no government that cares about elections will pass such legislation when all it needs is to pretend to follow the most vocal members of the electorate. And also let us not forget that an educated electorate is much harder to control and predict. Thank you editor, I appreciate your effort and applaud your hopeful sentiment.

    ReplyDelete
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