Wednesday, October 30, 2013

Charter of Values...The Day After

Every time I think that the province can't get any stupider and more self-destructive, I am surprised that a new level of dysfunction can be attained.
I thought the Pastagate affair plumbed the depths of lunacy and reached into as yet uncharted territory of insanity, a level one would think, hard to beat... and then came the Charter of Values, which makes Pastagate look like a trifle.

The attendant sound and fury attached to the current debate has me scratching my head, after all what does someone in Quebec City or Hérouxville have to get so excited about?
What is it about the hijab that has the entire province in atwitter?

The economic problems at hand seem to matter naught, while thousands of stories over the Charter continue to flood the newspapers and airwaves Ad nauseam.
This for months and months.
Yesterday  our illustrious Minister of Natural Resources, Martine Ouellet was forced to drop her mining reform bill, because the resource companies are cancelling Quebec projects like flies in anticipation of increased costs and a hostile business environment.

In the meantime our Premier, La Pauline is desperately announcing job creation projects, this week a meagre 90 jobs at Pratt and Whitney, which still cost Quebec a subsidy of $17 million.
Is that not pitiful?
Companies are mindful of the government's desperation and are jumping to get in on the subsidy gravy train, as underlined by ALCOA, which threatened to take its 3,300 well-paying aluminum jobs elsewhere unless the government maintained its bargain basement price for electricity which was scheduled to rise from 3¢ to 4.4¢  an increase that would cost the company about 100 million dollars. LINK
 La Pauline took less than 24 hours to cave and assured everyone that ALCOA is not going anywhere.

Quebec is bleeding jobs while employment figures in the ROC are rising.  The budget shortfall is getting so scary that the finance minister Nicolas Marceau,  ordered his department to stop supplying the auditor-general with financial data, lest the truth be known. He told employees that they can now provide information on methodology only, but not substance, which can only mean that we are headed for catastrophe and the PQ is sweeping the mess under the rug until the last possible moment.
You'd think Quebecers would be concerned, or concerned enough to push the Charter debate off the front page, but alas such is not the case.

In all of this, I wonder what supporters of the Charter of Values actually think they will accomplish, should the law be passed.
Will Quebec be more French, secular, equal, fair and will  there be a higher level of social peace and harmony due to the Charter?  Ya think?

This is the fantasy that is the Charter, the idea that in one fell swoop it will eliminate devoted Muslims, Jews and Sikhs from continuing to be pious and observant.

Let us pretend that the law is enacted and peek into the future.
And so those in the public service, schools and hospitals will be told to remove their head coverings and no doubt many will comply.
It won't change who they are and what they are, it will just hide the fact.
How is that an advantage?
The hijab, kippah and turban will quickly become the forbidden fruit and that usually means that more people will want to embrace them as a symbol of resistance. That is human nature.

But what about those that outright refuse and while they will be in a minority, each story of confrontation and resistance will splash across the media at home and reverberate around the world.
What school or day care or seniors home administrator will tell a someone to go home and leave their charges devoid of supervision.
Worse, what manner of hospital administrator will tell a doctor to leave the ER or a nurse to abandon her post or an orderly to stop cleaning the floor because of a religious symbol?

And so it will be up to the public and those who enjoy playing the bad cop, to enter into dangerous confrontations with the refusniks and while incidents are somewhat rare up to now, after the law is passed, we can expect a dangerous escalation of incidents, again all to be reported world-wide.

And what about boycotts?
Could the province stand the repercussion of a Jewish boycott in retaliation to the kippah ban?
Quebec will be in for some nasty push back from the ever-powerful Jewish lobby and a boycott by the sports and entertainment industry as well as the investment community.
What will happen when the NHL lets it be known that Quebec will never get a franchise or that Jewish artists and more importantly Jewish managers and agents will boycott the  Montreal Jazz or Comedy festival. What if the Jewish investment community decides to give Quebec a pass.

While defenders will pooh-pooh the idea of Quebec suffering a boycott in retaliation, let me remind them what happened with the turban in soccer.

While the supporters of the Charter, the PQ government included, encouraged the Quebec Soccer Federation to stand firm on the turban ban on the soccer pitch, the world had another idea and the Canadian Soccer federation quickly suspended Quebec over the issue.
All of a sudden the FSQ reversed itself on the issue, understanding that when push comes to shoveyou can't fight city hall!

So not only are international boycotts in relation to the Charter a possibility, they are a certainty.
To believe otherwise is to whistle past the graveyard.
Won't happen? Can't happen? It already has!

If you think I'm being an alarmist, think again.
When Jewish, Sikh and Muslim doctors, nurses, health professionals and teachers hold press conferences to resign en masse, it will rock Quebec from top to bottom and make waves across the world.
And what will be the effect of employees claiming harassment, or intimidation and who seek benefits because of burnout or stress related illness. Such are the rules that allow it.

And what about the thousands of lawsuits to be launched by employees deprived of work. There is a committee of lawyers, already forming, tasked to launch challenges against the law and take up the cause.
Should the law fail the test of constitutionality years down the road, the province could be open to billions in damages and back pay.  

And finally, what on Earth will happen if real Muslim extremists take exception and decide that action must be taken in order to stop the proliferation of such legislation in other jurisdictions?
I shudder to think.

Alarmist...I don't think so, but to Charter Supporters,  all I can say.......Are you willing to roll the dice?

As Dirty Harry said in the movies...."Go ahead... Make my day!"


  1. The day after:
    Will the Muslims, Jews and Sikhs (and a whole bunch I'm forgetting) have a fair shake when they go in for a job interview wearing their religious garb (public sector)? Unfortunate to say, probably not.
    Not to say it's not happening now, but this bill will only make such discrimination worse.

    Good post Editor, and it's sad to say your crystal ball is probably right on the money. Can't wait to hear your opinion on the "Quitting quebec" story on CTV tonight.

    1. WHOOMP! Here it is! The story we've all been waiting for! There is actually a follow-up. The audio is not as good as the first part, the "official" story, but two emigrants tell it like it is.

    2. The comments are very interesting - from a lot of people that have left along with those that refuse to let the PQ ruin the province any further. A lot of frustration for sure.

    3. ""I escaped to Canada last March. Now I have a family doctor. Other benefits include colleagues and neighbors that are friendly, roads without potholes, lower gas prices, and a town without daily marching protests. Such a relief.""

      Read more:

      Always Quebec bashing! It's Ontario/USA fault Quebec has no family doctors. If you didn;t keep trying to steal them from Quebec. In quebec we have a social charter to harass doctors to provide medical care in the hinterlands of Quebec instead of Montreal.

      The doctors should not be allowed to leave Quebec. We will need fences to keep them in soon.

      Even in the last few weeks new doctor "licenses" were issued (Y this is Quebec not communist russia) and most of the licenses are for outside Montreal. Montreal will get like 3 new doctors while the hinterland gets dozens.

      Colleague and neighbors that are friendly? Maybe if he sat around complaining about anglo's, working and the fact "Les Quebecois" can;t stay on welfare for life he would have been better accepted in Quebec.

      Sir, Quebec will be better off without your tax money. We don;t need it. Even when you move to the rest of Canada, the federal govt will send your tax dollars back to Quebec to support us.

      Quebec, perpetual economic basket case.

    4. +10 - sad to see us losing so many good people to other provinces but I understand their decision to leave. Why live in this stressful environment when they have the choice to do better elsewhere? We are so ass-backward in this province. The situation of the doctors alone is just a glimpse of the multiple major problems we have here. Why would these wonderfully educated people live with the stress that this province puts them under? It sure as hell isn't money as they are paid better in other provinces plus now we will have the Charter of Values to help drive them out!

  2. Yes Editor - everything you have stated is true in spades. We are going to have more than a few incidents in the streets should these laws come into affect and government sponsored hate and discrimination against it's own minorities will be headlines around the world. Other countries will start to refuse to do business with them and worse, our real estate will be valueless. That is the only reason thousands more have not left quebec; they can't give their homes away and the elderly are caught due to poor health and lack of resources to get out. What will we do for medical care when all the minorities vacate their jobs and we don't even have kids that can graduate high school here to count on for health care and teachers and so many other vocations. We only need so many maintenance men and bus drivers and then we need professionals which will never move here unless we bribe them too and we're broke. Bleak days ahead for sure.

    1. Off topic but dedicated to Miss Piggy (I hope it gives everyone a smile - been very discouraging the past few months)

    2. were you aware that your rants are driving people away from this blog? your lies and nasty comments turn people's stomachs. literally. read this:

    3. If it will drive you away we will all be happy. Suck rocks.

    4. @cutie003

      i understand, but that's not what's happening as i am attracted by bad arguments. you're a great case to study. on the other hand, you scare valid anglophone enthusiasts away as proven by the story above.

    5. That blog was lovingly written and said a lot of interesting things about this blog, good and bad. He was honest and that's all one can ask.

      "I would calculate that a majority of commenters to the site really do believe that there are “English people” and “French people”, that these groups are others ready to be classified and categorized, and that few are willing to shoulder any burden to reach out to discover and fall in love with what they perceive as “the other side”."

      I like how he brought it down to us really being people first, with different languages that can separate us second. I don't want French to disappear, I just don't want it treated as a sacred cow in the face of all the problems Quebec already has. I can not abide protecting a language before human beings, and that's what Quebec does. The government has not helped the French people at all or the anglophones or anyone but themselves, really. I wonder why English/French fight so much when we all want the same things.

    6. Simple - politicians that are greedy and thoughtless and don't care about the population of our province at all. As long as they have cushy jobs that are based on superficial needs and wants that's all they need to keep raking in the money and power. Too bad but such is our so-called democracy.

    7. Can't Remember My Name

      Ed ??

    8. @can't remember my name

      what do you think of this bit about the effect cutie003 had on the author and presumably on many other readers?

      "Why would I think something so cynical, so pessimistic, so negative, so angry, so frustrated, so fed-up on the day of a sad event? (...) I don’t want to be like Cutie003. I’m sure she’s a nice person in reality; I mean to say, I don’t want to be like the internet avatar called Cutie003 (...) I learned, painfully, that in a vacuum of anger and frustration, I cannot maintain good manners and healthy, positive emotions, and that I’m better off removing myself from the discussion."

    9. Why do you troll this blog? Do you not have anything else to do with your so-called life? I don't find what he said at all disturbing - that's what happens to every normal person in this province. We start out thinking we will have a normal life and then find people like yourself are here and nasty to be around and this makes us cynical, pessimistic, negative, frustrated, fedup everyday, not just the day of sad events. The guy has a right to his feelings and I hope he feels better now as that was published in July. Now are you happy?

    10. FROM ED
      No S.R. it weas not me. I am no longer posting since my work seems to disturb so many people. According to Cutie every body is against my writings and ir upsets people needlessly. I have no desire to upset anyone. Since Cutie has told me to leave, I will please her and go. The link was pobably Resident Evil. He is a prolific writer and a straight shooter. I have missed his writings. Ed

    11. Come on Ed - I didn't tell you to leave. Why do you say such things? Read your and my comments again - I have no say over who writes on this blog. It's not mine to ask you to leave.

    12. Resident Evil left because he had a business he was trying to start up and didn't have the time to devote to the blog anymore - I was in touch with him and it was nothing personal against anyone or anything. Just too time consuming.

    13. And Ed I was against your comment to the person you told you weren't fucking interested in learning that student was a girl which I thought was very rude. And then he told you off so don't change the story any. It's all on the last thread, go back and read it.

    14. Can't remember my name, you are right the blog was well written. I would say one of Editor's best.

      Cutie, yes politician are greedy. What can we do? Partition would be a start. Take the separatist for example, they cancelled highway 50 and right now Minister Hebert is promising a highway for his ward. Greed, I think so. Legacy project, sure.

      Ed, your contribution are always welcome. I, for one, value your post. On the upside, I know something new everyday.

    15. Well him saying SR is witty pretty much negated everything else he said, I hope for his professional sake that his screenplays are for the most part not comedies, unless of course they are intended to be absurdist humor. To blog about another blog's comment section is so meta lol.

    16. Cutie,

      They write about you on the internet? High Fiveeeee, you're famous now???? Lolol
      You know what Madonna says: "I don't care what they write about me, as long as they write about me" lol
      If the trolls are trying to dissuade you from writing, and THEY'RE showing disdain, then you are certainly doing something right my keep it up.

    17. @thatguy

      "him saying SR is witty pretty much negated everything else he said,..."

      no it doesn't. i don't understand your point. the guy was an active contributor here and he's not anymore. cutie003 drove him away. like she did with ed actually. facts. his opinion on s.r. is totally irrelevant. how many other moderate dudes did she disgust? on the upside, she probably compensates by attracting nutjobs. when did you start posting mate?

    18. Thank you AnecTOTE - I know perfectly well that at times I sound angry and discouraged and that's because I am - I think we all have reason to be angry and I am not going to apologize for it. As this is a public forum, people can read what I have to say or skip over it - everyone is entitled to their own opinion and let's face it, there is very little place for we anglos to express our opinions about this province anymore. The trolls would love nothing better than for this blog to shut down so what they have to say to me, or anyone on here, matters not a damn. I won't give them the satisfaction of riling me any more than they do now with their stupid comments and trivial pursuit questions. I sleep just fine at night and that's what matters.

    19. "I think we all have reason to be angry..."

      really? what is it?

      "let's face it, there is very little place for we anglos to express our opinions about this province anymore."


      but what about driving away moderate contributors that feel sick after reading your nasties? after acknowledging this effect you have, do you still think you overall contribution will help anglo rights in quebec?

    20. ""Reader, I am confused and conflicted by a lot of questions about Identity, and I’m a cosmopolitan anti-nationalist who is fascinated by Nationalism.""

      Soft brain seppie alert.

      Anglophones and immigrants do not have questions about "identity". Anybody that starts talking about identity is immediately flagging themselves as a PQ seppie under the influence of his govt.

      Only in Quebec is there endless navel gazing about "who we are" and other rubbish like that.

      Instead of acknowledging that identity politics is outdated tribalism from the middle ages, seppie light decides to retreat into his hole so he doesn;t need to be confronted by more uncomfortable facts.

    21. "outdated tribalism from the middle ages"

      Comme les foulards et les turbans?

    22. Your culture is becoming a melting pot.

    23. @ Student
      His opinion on SR is relevant because it clearly shows he has poor taste and lack of judgement. By his own account he only stopped by for 6 months to get information on the last election, I can't imagine he'd have stuck around regardless of the comments section. In addition as we have no idea who he was on the blog why would you assume he was a moderate or that he even contributed anything worthwhile? Besides who stops reading a blog because of the comments section you only see if you click on it? I hope he doesn't like youtube because every video's comment section is a nuclear wasteland of terrible.

      Of course this whole thread is exceedingly hypocritical, if people are indeed driven away by an onslaught of extreme, insulting, inane, or pointless posts you should not be the one pointing fingers my dear, pot calling the kettle black and all.

      I don't see the relevance of when I started posting to anything. Care to expand?

    24. @thatguy

      He did say who he was on the blog, it was JBG.

      "I used a handle on his site, using my JBG/Jacques Beau Verte/Jason Bo Green account from"

    25. "Your culture is becoming a melting pot."

      Elle le sera un peu moins au cours des prochaines années...La valve se referme lentement mais sûrement...

      Le Québec accueillera moins d'immigrants en 2014 et 2015

    26. @Laurie
      Oh he actually used JBG? He said he used a handle using his account but didn't say the handle was the same as his account. I went back and he didn't use an account, though it was JBG. I'll give it to him that he was moderate through pretty uninformed the situation in the province.

      I think the kicker for me in his blog post was "You’ll be amazed at how much sound and fury a bunch of white heterosexual Judeo-Christians in a wealthy economy can make over questions of identity.", way to denigrate everyone's feelings in the province, on either side of the debate.

    27. @S.R.
      So instead of having a quota of 50,000 as under the Liberals in 2012, they'll change it to a fixed 48 500 - 51,500 people, talk about pointless posturing.

    28. C'est un début et au moins,il n'augmente pas.Du moins jusqu'au jour où nous aurons trouvé la recette magique afin d'intégrer convenablement tous ces étrangés.

    29. The Liberals actually lowered the quota from 2011 to 2012, that said there is no actual evidence Quebec is taking in more immigrants than it can integrate into society. Quebec desperately needs immigrants to keep the economy going so instead of reducing the number of immigrants coming into Quebec a more rational plan would be to increase access to French language classes and increase the amount of programs to help new arrivals. Which to give them props they are giving a tiny bit more money for French programs for immigrants, though just like how small the decrease in accepted immigrants, the increase in funding is so small it's really only being done for optics.

    30. @thatguy

      "if people are indeed driven away by an onslaught of extreme, insulting, inane, or pointless posts you should not be the one pointing fingers my dear..."

      well there's no proof of anyone quiting the blog with an ache after reading my stuff. but there's one proof of cutie003 having this effect. so i don't understand why you think i should refrain from singling her out.

      and by the way, when is it that i have posted "extreme" speech mate? and "insulting"?

    31. @ Student

      "well there's no proof of anyone quiting the blog with an ache after reading my stuff" Well other than RS and Apparatchik who either directly or indirectly reference you as why they were fed up with the blog.

      "and by the way, when is it that i have posted "extreme" speech mate? and "insulting"?"
      lol I love. Just love that you didn't include inane or pointless posts as part of the criteria I stated, at least you know what your posts are.

    32. @thatguy

      "Well other than RS and Apparatchik who either directly or indirectly reference you..."

      no they didn't.

      "at least you know what your posts are."

      i didn't include "inane or pointless" in my question because it would have been too easy for you to answer all my comments are pointless. in other words i tried to prevent another pointless comment from you. back to my question now? are you gonna find another way to avoid it?

    33. "no they didn't."

      Indeed they did my dear.

      "i didn't include "inane or pointless" in my question because it would have been too easy for you to answer all my comments are pointless"

      Only because they clearly are. I'm confused as to how you thought you could avoid another "pointless" comment from me by directly asking me a question? But of course that gets to the root of the problem doesn't it, all of the comments you post are truly just vapid rhetorical questions meant to litter the board, and nothing else.

      "back to my question now?"

      My dear why would I answer a fundamentally flawed question? My criteria used the conjunction "or" not "and", therefore you'd only have to fit one of the adjectives not all of them for it to be a valid statement, so clearly I don't have to prove you are extremist nor insulting in addition to the other criteria. Though I'll humor you for old times sake, why you have an insult right in this very thread!

      "on the upside, she probably compensates by attracting nutjobs. when did you start posting mate?"

      Heck let's throw in another one for good measure

      "congratulations. if you want him to stick around make sure he learns good french, otherwise he'll turn out bitter like sauga, nasty like cutie003 or delusional like ed."

      Tut, tut, tut. So unbecoming, and this on a birth announcement, a remarkable lack of tact. I'm sure there are much better chestnuts you've dropped, though fortunately the editor deletes the more extreme examples of it, lord knows the ones we're left with are groan worthy enough as it is.

  3. Dear Editor, permit me to quote a well known Aislin cartoon from the rollicking 1970s : " OK everybody take a valium...."

    At the moment we don't know the details of the so called charter. We have some statements of principle but no text. So far, it is clear that what has been proposed would not survive a challenge in small claims court let alone the Quebec Court of Appeal. See the comments from Fremont of the Quebec Human Rights Commission in that regard. If we take Drainville at his word this is some kind of set piece battle between the ethnic nationalists who are now driving the PQ and the "federastes". Why ? To try and get enough votes from their fellow travelers to secure a majority. We hear that there will be no election this year. So we must endure another 6-12 months of gabble about this patently illegal proposition to discriminate against our fellow citizens because of their choice of hats.

    Democracy is a tough master. The PQ have exposed themselves with this charter gibberish. But now we all get to beat on them until the next election for their backward point of view. I am waiting for the actual "charter" but so far this is no contest and those who favour an open, free society will prevail. So bring it on ! This wacky debate demonstrates what an arrogant, presumptuous bunch of nationalists will get up to even in a minority government. Can you imagine these dweebs in charge of a country?? Gaaaack! It won't happen. But just in case I have my unregistered firearms handy.

  4. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTWednesday, October 30, 2013 at 9:26:00 PM EDT

    Any anglo living in quebec and complaining about it IS mentally retarded.

    1. So you living in Germany is retarded also?

      Anyone moving or living anywhere except some kind of tribal ancestral home is unwelcome?

    2. @cebeuq

      "So you living in Germany is retarded also?"

      he hasn't complained about it yet, so i don't think your conclusion is valid. (not that i don't consider un gars bs de frankfort a retard)

    3. "Un gars" I have no idea what your cryptic comment means but if it helps you - I am an anglo - quebecois who lives in Quebec and I do not complain about it. I like it here. In a democracy people complain. They gripe. They argue. They post on blogs. That's how we move forward. Perhaps its different in "Frankfort"... wherever that is. Perhaps you are posting from Russia ? If so, I wish you well. Courage!

    4. Sandy McTire, Calgary guy is a troll. I say paid to post. Most of his comment are attack against the editor and other poster, especially anglo-quebecker. His quick to start insulting his opponent, instead of debating. Well that is not surprising.

    5. Oh look, un gars is back after storming off in a huff of expletives against everyone in Quebec and on this blog "threatening" to never return. (sigh) If only he was a man of his word.

    6. Un Gars back to hurl insults and nothing else again.

  5. @ Editor

    The proposed Charter of Quebec Values, (CQV) has been commented to death in the editorial sections of both the French and English language papers. Many of the editorial writers have concluded that this is a PQ strategy of wedge politics, cooked up by J.F. Lisée based upon his observations of the 2008 election where Mario Dumont`s ADQ deftly played the identity card (at exactly the right time) and very nearly won the election and relegated the PQ to a third party status in the process. The job of selling this, as yet fully defined, Charter of Quebec Values is the job of the PQs resident communications expert / ex-journalist, Bernard Drainville. Ultimately the goal of the CoQV, along with the customary plethora of announcements of government goodies, was to be in a position to win a majority in the Quebec National Assembly in a fall election. Unfortunately, since Premier Marois has opted not to go to the polls, the PQ will be dragging out this debate for as long as possible. They have two reasons to drag the debate out, the first being to keep the identity issue alive in the regions, the second is to divert attention away from Quebec’s poor economic performance.

    The elephant in the room, and another reason for the CoQV, is the low birth rate of old stock Quebec francophones. Yes, Quebec’s birth rate has had an uptick in recent years. I am no demographer but I am willing to bet that the higher birth rate comes as a result of the higher fecundity of immigrant women from the francophone Maghreb. Both the Quebec Liberals and the PQ have encouraged immigration from Maghreb because of their French language but failed to anticipate that, other than language, the peoples of the Maghreb have very little in common with a western European culture, in other words Quebec. Old stock francophone Quebecers view these newcomers as difficult to integrate and ultimately a threat to Quebec culture. In addition, recent events in France involving their Maghreb minority have increased francophone feelings of insecurity. Unfortunately the Charter of Quebec Values is rapidly turning into legislation to pick on one group of immigrants who took Quebec up on the offer to immigrate here. I do not believe this is by design but this is the result of the evolution of the current debate.

    I am of the opinion that the Charter of Quebec values came about because Pauline Marois position as leader of the Parti Quebecois is tenuous at best. Madame Marois is swimming with sharks, one of the reasons she didn’t opt for a fall election, and had this charter proposal imposed on her by Lisée and Drainville, both of which have leadership ambitions.

    1. My buck's on Lisée. Kudos to him, he has set her up beautifully. LOLOLOLOLOL

    2. Yes, and he does have more charisma than that jerk Drainville, not that I like either one of them but for sure the more polished is that sneak Lisee.

    3. Cutie, he's pretty from far but far from pretty. LOLOLOLOLOL personally , I think he's downright ugly, but that's a different story.

      If popo is smart, going forward, every time she has a news conference of any kind and has to announce bad news, she should have the minister for Anglo Montreal stand next to her. Ya know...just for shits and giggles...LOLOLOLOLOL
      She should really consider doing it, drag him right there front and centre. If she's smart. Lol

    4. Drainville has terrible image on TV. He's slimy and it shows. He can;t help with the barbs against anglo's showing through. He's just too dogmatic.

      Lisee is the real master of the lie. I'd put money on him next. He can bite his tongue as long as required and spin outright fabrications like a walking PQ spam press feed.

      On a separate note. Anyone heard about an Indian restaurant in Montreal is going to close. Tens of thousands in language fines, being harassed etc. Will pack it in after 20 years and move to Toronto.

      Can we get an exception for Indian food restaurants? It's safe to say "everybody" likes indian food? Ok seppies that have been to one actually run by foreigners.

      As opposed to Chez Jean with a side menu of indian food next to the poutine.

      I guess the real estate will be able to express it's true Quebec cultural character. Boarded up storefront. Kinda reminds me of the last time the PQ were in power. You could walk for a kilometer on St Catherine between Atwater and Guy and it was basically just one boarded up business after another.

      Different streets now, same disease. Just look around at the industrial and retails real estate for space lease/sale. Lots of places closing., nobody opening.

      Good times in Montreal are returning! (according to the seppies).

      AnecTOTE, can I try out some seppie insults on you?

      Your anglo culture is a melting pot!
      The Canadian star system is a joke compared to hollywood
      and the whopper
      Canadian culture is THE SAME as American culture.

      At this point I'm imagining you dropping to the floor as your brain short circuits as the insults burn through the tissue?

      It's not laughing, that I know!

      Ok, one last one.

      Your Canadian culture contains and imports culture from immigrants. It is not pure and can change without a proper govt body like the "associaction de la bla bla bla" in France to control the situation.

      See, I can pull out all the insults. I understand how to gnaw away at your Canadian insecurities in your contaminated melting pot culture.

      If you only understood the security that comes with being one of the Borg.

    5. "AnecTOTE, can I try out some seppie insults on you?"

      I would say...sticks and stones....LOLOLOLOLOL
      Look, if I don't particularly care about you, you really don't have the power to hurt me. Also if you have an excellent sense of who you are, people can't tell you what you are and make an impact...savvy

    6. Your culture is not pure. All these anglo's sitting next to immigrants in west island restaurants.

      Is it acceptable and normal to have immigrants or allow people to speak their own language in public that is not french?

      Your anglo culture is nothing more then evolution and adoption of things that are good from other cultures.

      English and anglophones can never be as racially and culturally pure as PQ French Canadians. You and your culture is forever doomed to get along with other cultures and develop in the future.

      Your english has not the strength and courage of legislation to halt evolution, modern society or multiculturalism like PQ seppies.

      Every immigrant that moved to Toronto and refuses to learn 100% perfect "academie de Queen Elizabeth" (otherwise known as "international english") destroys your canadian culture as it dissolves your own culture in the melting pot.

    7. Of COURSE J-F Lisée cooked up the Charter.

      After decades of being a kingmaker and master manipulator behind the scenes he decided to make his push for the big chair in front.

      But don't think that he actually BELIEVES anything in this Charter. He'd drop it like a hot potato if it wasn't so good at getting ignorant voters willing to vote for his party.

      He is smart, but he's not as smart as he thinks he is.


  6. Out of topic:

    Since I still have a property in Montreal, this weekend I am going there to vote. Any suggestion? This is my take on the four major candidates:

    1. Denis Coderre. Basically he is the one that I will vote for. All things considered, he is the one that is least bad compared to the others.

    2. Marcel Cote. Good man, good candidate. Unfortunately he runs in the same vehicle as Louis Harel. In fact, Harel was the leader of that party and simply because her lack of English that she does not run herself. Harel is big no-no factor for me as she suggests a municipal version of the OQLF. The fact that she was PQ MNA does not help either.

    3. Melanie Joly. She seems harmless. As a man, I think she is pretty. It is nice to have pretty face representing the City. However, she is rather inexperienced and it is a pity that her group does not run candidates in all ridings, making her getting a majority is improbable.

    4. Richard Bergeron. His ideas is full of pies in the sky. Also, I strongly oppose the idea of having trams in Montreal. Look at Toronto streetcars. They are slow, they occupy double their sizes when loading passengers, they are inflexible and their rails are not the best thing to drive on with a car.

    1. LD
      Montreal needs to be managed. Another retail politician is ill equipped to deal with what needs to be done. The best manager running is Cote, hands down.

    2. Another letter from outside quebec thanking us for our doctors and professionals:

    3. @ Troy:

      I don't know what I can contribute to the discussion as I have said basically the same thing as you have in the runup to the municipal elections in Quebec. I'll try to add some more of my opinion.

      As for Richard Bergeron, in addition to his weird conspiracy thoughts (9-11 was an inside job) and his tram fantasy (are we really so rich in Quebec that we have billions for this?), he believes that our infrastructure is good. Excuse me but during the summer, didn't a backhoe fall through the streets of Montreal? In the boroughs that he had seats, he did a bad job, removing parking and making things worse for business. He has weird unhelpful beliefs on which he will be asked to make decisions, he doesn't get it when it comes to infrastructure, and he is bad for business. As they say, three strikes and you're out.

      When it comes to Melanie Joly, even though some people think she is pretty, I don't think that's enough. You have to know about the issues and she hasn't convinced me. She has attack ads against Coderre saying not to vote for Coderre but this means nothing to me. It's absolute pablum. Especially when in the ad she says she's "old enough to know there are no magic solutions to Montreal's problems." Well, if we don't look to a mayor for solutions, what are they good for? I want solutions, thank you very much.

      For Marcel Cote, he is a good man but in some respects, he reminds me of when Gerald Tremblay got into office: quiet and unasssuming. He is for sure an intellectual type but with all the corruption in Montreal, I don't think he has the political experience to deal with it. As well, as you said, he has Harel proposing OQLF type measures for Montreal. We don't need anything else to hamper the economy of Montreal and I believe this would cause more people and more businesses to flee, especially with the PQ in office. For me, it's a no for the two headed monster that is the Coalition. You can't have a party pulling in two different directions.

      As for Coderre, he for sure has his detractors. That's always the case when you're the frontrunner. However, he has the political experience necessary. For sure, it is at the federal level, but I think that can translate to municipal governance. He has been the strongest against the Charter of Values which is important because with the PQ in government, a counterbalance is needed so that people don't think they have to leave. In fact, his big personality and name recognition in Quebec will help him stand up to the PQ whereas candidates who have a bigger learning curve may be intimidated by the provincial government. As well, dealing with corruption, at least he has a proposal of having an inspector general to analyse city contracts as well as creating greater transparency as Rudy Guliani (ex mayor of NYC) advocates. To me, it seems like he has something to propose, and for that, his strong personality, his political experience, and understanding that Montreal functions as a bilingual society, he gets my vote.

    4. Somebody needs to take Coderre aside and explain to him what he needs to do.

      Do they really never "get it"? One of your people has been been a long time mayor of St Leonard for decades. He's on record being a long time friend of Catania and he's been seen in a car showing up somewhere with Mr 3%. Mr Sidewalk name come up also.

      And Codierre is actually wasting time defending this person.

      You cut him loose immediately. Who gives a shit if he;s not totally guilty. The public demand more then this at this point.

      The presumption is on the pulic order at this point, not on the rights one one random person in a position of power.

      We need totally squeaky clean politicians, not people with the stink of being mob friends.

      Here is a little FYI. It's *NEVER OK* to be friends or acquaintance of a mobster/criminal or other lowlife.

      It doesn;t matter what your "record in office" is. The mob are very good at making up whatever paperwork you need. We havn;t discovered (and likely never will) the scams that went on there.

      Disgusting. It's like Codeierre has learned nothing. I guess I shouldn't be surprised with a Liberal (sorry Ed).

      Selling anglo's out for Bill 101 etc. Selling us out to the mob for everything else. Get's caught. Worse. Defends it as acceptable. "No proof".

    5. Let's not forget that the Federal Liberal have gone as far as to have Mafia "made men" as ministers in their govt. That's a whole different deal then a couple mobster friends.

      Imagine all the pretending everything was ok that went on for all the years.

      Many of these federal Liberal people are still behind the scenes.

      ""steeped in the sponsorship scandal and one of their politicians was listed in an FBI document as a made member of the mafia in Montreal with connections to crime families in New York. ""

      If any province was going to have a "made man" from the mafia as a sitting member of parliament you have to know it's Quebec.

      In modern Quebec legal logic however despite the fact that Italian mob will not let a woman in, the SQ and GRC consider it "profiling" to only consider male suspects.

      Such is the logic of Quebec and the reason Quebec is going down the toilet bowl.

    6. @ cebeuq

      Conservative shill much?

      Should we talk about the Conservative senate scandal, how the conservative's are responsible for most of the federal debt or how Joe Clark has said that Harper has been bad for Canada's international reputation?

      This is a municipal election. No use talking about Bill 101... but if you want to... why don't you show me where the Conservatives are against Bill 101?

    7. Old Conservative trick. Throw as much mud as possible and hopefully something will stick.

      My appraisal of the weaknesses of the other 3 mayoral candidates stands.

    8. FROM ED
      Cebeuq, I think the best man is Cote in spite of Harel. His father in law is Yves Ryan who was Mayor of Montreal North fot three decades. Ryan's brother Claude Ryan was leader of the Quebec :Lberal Party. thay were good leaders and honest men. Ed

    9. @cebeuq

      great comment at 2:37 and 3:22 mate. you seem to be aware about the coderre fraud.

      @troy & roger rabbit

      guys don't checks the links above unless you want to know more about your champion.

    10. @ed

      they all have ties to the liberals. coderre was mp until last june. joly was a strategist in trudeau's run and bergeron's vice-whatever is stephane dion's wife. liberal ties can't be your deciding factor here. you'll have to find another criteria like worth, for example.

    11. FROM ED
      Cebeuq, if it's true the Fed Libs had mafia as ministers you should be able to name them. Please do, I would like to know. The scamdal that was used to destroy our past hope for a decent federal government was the hundred million dollars Jean Chretien distributed among his friends to fight the referendum. They did not get receipts and most of it was skimmed by Chretien's friends. When Chretien retired Paul martin chose a whole new cabinet to make sure everyone was clear of wrong doing. Even going so far as to omit has good friendd who's only crime was to be in Chretien's cabimet. It was all done by a handful of Frenchmen from Quebec but it cost our country the best Prime minister we ever had. Chretien the slimy little worm could have saved the government but kept his mouth shut like the slimy worm that he is.Ed

    12. In hindsight the amount of money that went missing during the sponsorship sandal is laughable, 4 million, that was it! That's all the commission concluded was spent or given out recklessly. Now I'm not saying that forgives it, but the Cons made 50 million disappear in Tony Clements riding during the G8 alone, with no receipts for anything. They've spent more than that on their economic action plan ads which I think have hit between 30-50 million by now, regardless of there is even an actual program in place that they're promoting. Add in paying way over what we should for jets and ships I'm not sure how they can claim to be the party of transparency and fiscal responsibility.

    13. @ student

      I agree that Liberal ties can't be the deciding factor because 2 of the major candidates Coderre and Joly do have solid ties. As for Bergeron, honestly, I don't consider him to be a Liberal supporter. The reason Cote, with roughly 10% support in the polls, has support on this blog is because he was involved in the Mulroney government for a while and some people on this site are staunch Conservatives (as opposed to people generally in Quebec society) . He is over the hill at 71 and as a businessman, he will have too much of a learning curve, and I have a hard time believing that he and Harel will see eye to eye on much.

      @ Ed
      If you look up Alfonso Gagliano, he was involved in the sponsorship scandal and he has been accused of being a part of the mafia.
      As for Jean Chretien, he did not "distribute" 100 million dollars to his friends. The conclusions of the Gomery Commission is that he had lack of oversight over the funds. He was just trying to win the referendum. I bet you the PQ didn't have great oversight of their funds either.
      You say that Paul Martin was a great Prime Minister. He was only PM for 3 years, and a minority PM for most of that time. His accomplishments came as finance minister under Jean Chretien. Tell me exactly what he accomplised as Prime Minister. The press called him "Mr. Dithers" during his tenor as PM because he could never make up his mind.
      For me Paul Martin accomplished as much as Joe Clark, John Turner, and Kim Campbell as Prime Minister of Canada, namely, not much.

      The real people who shaped Canada over the past few decades were the longtime PM's: Pierre Trudeau, Brian Mulroney, Jean Chretien, and Stephen Harper.

    14. @thatguy

      ....not to mention the 3 billion dollars the auditor general said was "lost". Did the Conservatives ever find that money that they lost?

    15. Oddly enough Roger I don't think that they did! Maybe they had 187 million glasses of 16$ orange juices?

    16. What's that called, thatguy? The Bev Oda special? lol

    17. That's for sure that guy - the missing money at the time of the referendum was nothing compared to what the seppies spent and wasted. Sure there were people from both sides that pocketed money but again the seppies have spread the untruth that that's why they lost the referendum. Tripe - they lost it because people didn't know what the hell the question meant and voted blindly (at least about 40% of them) thinking that Canada was going to give them even more than they get at the present time - at if they don't receive enough money from the ROC at the present time.

  7. FROM ED
    I had decided again to quit the blog since I had been convinced I was upsetting people and no one wanted to read me, however
    the link story from Jason Holborn, (whoever he is) has told me that some want to hear from me. Jason has no axe to grind and comes out of the blue telling me he enjoys my work so there might be two or three others which is good enough for me.
    If I have upset people I apologize profusely. My love for people (all people) is the reason I speak out. This blog is the most important thing I can do to help save our homes in spite of those who wish us unwell.
    Cutie, the reason I spoke so unkindly to Sylvaine, I feel was just. The thread of the day was about the Liberal Party, a subject which I feel is impertaive in saving Quebec. We had just passed a series of about thirty nonsense posts with the trolls and
    managed to get back to serious dscvussions when he jumped in with crap about the troll being a woman, you jumped in to thank him and the whole face of the blog was changed. I won't apologize to any troll but I will to you and Anectote who are I'm sure doing what you feel is right. If you check that thread by the way there is one hundred nonsense posts with the trolls out of 185 comments.
    I am reposting here the post I had just made in answer to Roger rabbit which I feel now is one of the most important things I've ever said on theis blog.
    Rog, What people aren't seeing is simply that you can't say, "Don't worry about it, I'm goint to vite for the Liberals anyway" .while you are tearing them apart at the same time. By the time the bad words spread it's too late. peple are saying the Liberals are no good, I've heard it a thousand times, it must be true. Whoever started the rumor in 2012 that the Liberals were crooked was probably just a couple of the CAQ party. It couldn't have been PQ, they're not smart enough. Anyway it had to start with some individuals somewhere and look how it bloomed into a defeat for all of us, Even the English language media were publishing the lies. I remember a gazette editorioal that said, "Where there's smoke there's fire and there sure is a lot of smoke coming out of the Liberall camp.The smoke was the words that English leter writers sent to the gazette saying I'm not voting for the Liberals. The French papers were saying the Liberals must be crooked even the English are saying it. Everyone knows they are crooks. Don McPherson reads this blog. We know because his opinions often resemble closely those of our Editor. Do you think he wouldn't use your words to make a story. Of course he would. What I see happening is a repeat of last year. Why in the name of hell do we want the PQ again./
    Tell the truth. 1. The Liberal Government is there to serve 8 million Franccophones who are the ones that will elect them, NOT US. 2. We lived in peace under Liberal and PQ govebnments until September 2012. The Liberal party has nothing to apologize for except perhaps overspending, but at least they spend it on programs that help people live, education, health, welfare etc. Please don't destroy them before we can get them elected. If this is wrong then I apologize for posting, student is right I must be delusional. Ed

    1. No need to apologize to me Ed - Everyone is doing what they think is right and hopefully some of the messages we post get through to others that are fighting along side us. That's all we can do. Carry on.

    2. For everyone's information and participation if they can make it. The groups are doing what they can to support one another:

      Protest Rally outside of the Hôpital de Hull where 77 year old Veteran John Gervais, dying of Cancer and his family were denied proper care and attention for not speaking French.

      We are requesting the immediate dismissal of the staff member involved and to show our support for this Hero and his family.

      The Unity Group-Quebec civil rights will be leaving from Montreal by chartered bus to Gatineau, QC at 10 am along with the Heroes Highway Riders.

      Please visit for details and to reserve your place on the bus.

      Date: Saturday, November 9th, 2013
      Start time : 1PM

      Hôpital de Hull
      116, boul Lionel-Émond
      Gatineau (Québec) J8P 1W7

    3. Ed, I might disagree with you sometimes, but don't take that as an attack on you or an avocation of you not posting. In a democracy it is important to air ideas and have competing views and debate them to see if they stand up. Regardless if I disagree with them your posts are usually substantive and actually take a stance and express an opinion, which is much more than can be said of some of the other posters on here, who should decide to stop posting long before you do.

    4. Ed,
      We can't all agree with each other 100%. I think many people appreciate your stories of the past and I like that you did some analysis of the federal debt situation. I knew that the Conservatives were responsible for most of the debt despite the misinformation spread by the media but it's nice that you had the numbers.

      Please also realize that this is mostly a Conservative blog with an Editor who worked for the Conservative party in the past. So, sometimes they really pile it on about how bad the Liberals are - as much as the separatists. The separatists hate the Liberals because they know that is the only party where francophones are willing to fight for Canada.
      I think you should just make your arguments instead of telling people they can't criticize the Liberals. As well, sometimes you tell people not to answer the trolls (student and SR mostly) but at the same time you do. You have to realize that people have different solutions. Some people argue with the trolls, I used to one-line them back, and others try to ignore them. Of course my real solution is to ban them outright because they contribute nothing and often state points in contradiction of each other just to troll (but the Editor has chosen not to ban them).

      Sometimes things get heated in conversations and you might be called an old-fogey (or worse) by some people but realize but some of them are old fogeys themselves. Don't take it too personally when you are attacked because we all say wrong things sometimes.

      Looking forward to your continued contribution to the blog,

    5. Ed, please hang in. You are a genuine voice and anyone who reads your posts knows that you speak from the heart. I am only an occasional contributor but I read "No Dogs..." frequently and I always read your comments. These sort of blogs are always a bit of a gong show because folks have an opportunity to vent per the Oscar Wilde quote, above. Emotion, prejudice, one-upmanship, testosterone and mischief are on full display together with the useful and thoughtful comments. You are definitely one of the good guys so keep on posting in the free world !

  8. Rog, thanks for your support. When people call me a Liberal lover I know they have not read my posts. I've tried to make it clear that what I love is my home, my family my neighbours. I love to sit on the river bank wayching the mighty St Lawernce drift by as I did as a boy watching for submarine periscopes because we were told uboats had entered the river. We were so naive. I love my home. I l love my smiling separatist neigbours who share their beautiful children with me. They kids and dogs all come to visit me sitting on my porch I've watched them grow from puberty to high school and develop relationships. They bring their girl friends to be interviewed by me like i'm some kind of a guru sitting on a mountain top. This is what i really love and I see the Liberal Party as the only chance to maintain it. I get angry when I read people saying, "I know the Liberals are as corrupt as the PQ......... or The Liberals must be corrupt they're poloticians." I expect English to at least wait until they are charged with something.
    Rog, I was raised at a time when rules and loyalty meant something. Where's the to the others on the blog when a handful decide to party with trolls leaving no reply spots for serious conversation. You say the Editor allows it, I say he has given up on it. He's one man and the trolls with our people are creating hundreds of infantile posts. how do you expect him to control that? Delete them all. he'd be there all night. I like to thing that loyalty to him is more important than the trolls. Personally I believe in law and order. When someone is out of order I feel it's proper to tell them the same as I would if I saw someone spitting on a bus or someone brow beating a person speaking English, I speak up.I feel the same about the trolls, ikt's up to us who see the wrong in it to say so.Think about this line from "Land of Hope and Glory " ny Arthur Benson
    "The Blood a hero's sire has spent still nerves a hero's son." Ed

    1. "They bring their girl friends to be interviewed by me like i'm some kind of a guru sitting on a mountain top. This is what i really love and I see the Liberal Party as the only chance to maintain it."

      that's a very egocentrical rationale to supporting the liberals mate. i hope you don't expect readers to share your concerns.

    2. Student seriously needs to find herself a boyfriend and get a life. Where does she find the time to refute everyone's comments...

    3. @innocent bystander

      sure, and about the day's subject?

    4. $10.00 bucks an hour - better than leaving home I guess - lol

    5. @cutie003

      if i was paid i'd be more than that, as is described in aski's article from the other day:

      do you read adski's recommended articles?


    So the PQ has finally said it won't be able to achieve a balanced budget. I really don't know why politicians promise a balanced budget knowing full well there's no way they'll be able to do it, they're all guilty of it, they just hope that an election comes before their projected time runs out, just look at the conservatives, promising a balanced budget for the year after the next election, meanwhile how many years have they been in power?

    1. FROM ED
      Thatguy, do you remember when John Turner quit as Trudeau's finance minister, he said at the time that there is no reason a country can't balance it's books except in time of war. He was the last man to give balanced budgets, no debt and good living. Ed

    2. @ Ed
      The last finance minister to balance the budget was Paul Martin in the Jean Chretien government.

      @ thatguy
      It is totally ridiculous. The PQ will force its own misfortune because with them helping the Quebec economy tank and not taking care of a balanced budget, I believe there will soon be (in the next 2 years if they are still in power) a day of reckoning. Markets will not accept our debt load.

      As for the Conservatives, they were mocking the Liberals for the surpluses they had, and before the recession hit, they had turned a Liberal surplus into a deficit and have not had a balanced budget. Now, we're supposed to be thankful that they might have a balanced budget soon? After 7 years of a self-inflected deficit position? WTH!! Shame on the Harper government for increasing the debt as they have.

  10. FROM ED
    An article in the Gazette about honour crimes in Canada moved Bernard Drainville to say that the charter would help because it expresses equality between men and women. Something wrong there but I can't put my finger on it. Ed

    1. Something is wrong Ed in that what you wear does not define who you are. Even if these people went to work naked, if they believe in honour killing that's what would happen. The one thing he did say that made sense (God forgive me something the PQ said made sense) is that the social workers have to be re-trained and laws have to be put in place that the parents of children that come to them for help do not need to be notified - right now, the parents have to be told of a complaint and then the kids go home, their parents threaten them, and their statements are retracted. This was a Canada wide study that quebec has decided to use for their provincial platform as I'm sure all the other provinces will do the same.

    2. @ Ed
      It was probably the part where Drainville's lips were moving. In all seriousness Cutie hit the nail on the head, the charter will do nothing to change peoples' religious beliefs, it will not solve the invented problems that the PQ have used to justify its introduction and it will not solve honour killings. What needs to improve are social services because the Shafia case was a real boondoggle, the children were asking for help when they could and the system failed to protect them, which unfortunately happens far too often in child abuse cases regardless if there is a religious element to the case. If enshrining the equality of the genders in a charter would prevent honor crimes, there should be no honor crimes already, as numerous laws and the charter of rights and freedoms already do so.

  11. FROM ED
    God Cutie, you remind me of astory that happened ten yers ago in Lacolle. a 3 yr old had been raped by the mother's 21 year old boyfriend. He got out of the hous and approached a woman who could see he had been beaten. She asked him "Avez vous mal?" and he answered "Oui beaucoup." so she took him to the post mistress. The post mistress knew the moher and called her. She took the child home and the boyfriend killed him. In my mind I can see that poor little tyke with his hand out begging for help and they threw him back to the wolves. Incredibly heartless people thet treat children like they tyreat their dogs. Ed

    1. I don't know why you would bring up a story like this, Ed. I find it sickening to read.

    2. FROM ED
      I'm sorry Rog it was in a news story recently and iot's still happening every day. Sorry it upset you. Ed

  12. The Scots are becoming disenchanted with Alex Salmond because of his insistence on putting pretty much all his energy into independence and virtually ignoring the economic situation in Scotland. The Scots are a canny people.