Friday, November 9, 2012

Quebec's War of the Poppies

Like just about every issue in Quebec, language, sovereignty and political allegiances tinge the debate, so it's not surprising that when it comes to Remembrance Day and it associated trappings of the poppy and military pomp and circumstance, forces collide.

Last week, the Canadian legion and anglophone forces in general were up in arms because Pauline Marois placed a Fleur-de-lys at the center of her Poppy.

"Desecration!" they shouted, raising such a din that Pauline decided that in this case, discretion would be the better part of valour and so removed the offending accoutrement.

But sovereigntists leapt to her defence, reminding anyone who would listen that adding a Maple leaf or a Canadian flag to the poppy has always been  acceptable. 
 
And so  readers, I'm afeared that in this case, the evidence falls on the side of  those supporting Marois, the argument summed neatly by the old saying... What is sauce for the goose, est bonne pour le jars."

It really shouldn't be a big deal, but of course it is, this is Quebec, where nationalists have always had a problem with Remembrance Day, not because it celebrates the sacrifices of Canadian (and Quebec) soldiers but because the military is seen as a federalist trapping, based on the British model and closely associated with the hated monarchy.
Canada's  Royal 22e Régiment

Last year when Prince William and Kate visited Quebec City, the  royal couple spoke before a parade of Quebec's most storied regiment, the Royal 22nd, known affectionately as the 'Vandoos.' Link

As you can see from the pictures, the dress uniforms of the regiment closely resemble those of the Queen's Guard, familiar to anyone who has seen the changing of the guard at Buckingham Palace, in person or on the TV and it's something that irks nationalists to no end. 
The fact that so many enthusiastic Quebecers turned out to greet the Royal couple was also a bitter pill for nationalists to swallow, having prepared a counter-demonstration, which was kept 
well away from the proceedings.
Great Britain's Queen's Guards

But today's nationalist's problem with Canada's military, goes back a lot longer than the royal visit last summer, probably back to 1940, when conscription was the burning issue of the day.
Quebec had been promised by the federal government that in return for its electoral support, conscription would not be introduced in Canada.
Two years later, a plebiscite was held wherein Ottawa asked the nation for permission to go back on that promise.
The Yes side won, allowing the government to renege, but in Quebec, francophones voted 85% against the proposition and the betrayal and broken promise outraged the province.

Many Quebec government MPs left the William Lyon Mackenzie King government in protest to set up the Bloc populaire canadien.   Hmm...Sound familiar?

And so, all single men up to forty-five were required to register for the draft.
This set off a panic in Quebec, the Church and the government furiously denouncing conscription with many politicians advising citizens not to coöperate, resulting in violent anti-conscription riots in Montreal and Quebec city.
In an effort to thwart the draft, the Church advised young men to get married and organized mass outdoor weddings, held in places like Montreal's Jarry Park.
Many young men just disappeared, some even hiding in the forests like cowards, but to most Quebecers, these draft-dodgers were highly respected for their 'bravery' and were even referred to in the popular press as 'les patriotes.'
At any rate, the number of men actually drafted were few and less than 2,500 draftees went overseas, with less than seventy making the ultimate sacrifice.

Years later, the unpopularity of the war in Quebec and the organized resistance to conscription became an embarrassment and humiliation for nationalists.
Statements like this, made by Montreal mayor Camillien Houde in 1939 came back to haunt them;
"If war comes, and if Italy is on one side and England on the other, the sympathy of the French-Canadians in Quebec will be on the side of Italy. Remember that the great majority of French-Canadians are Roman Catholics, and that the Pope is in Rome. We French-Canadians are Normans, not Latins, but we have become Latinized over a long period of years. The French-Canadians are Fascists by blood, but not by name. The Latins have always been in favour of dictators."
Many in Quebec, like in France and some in England supported Mussolini and Hitler at the war's beginning and when victory was finally declared and the real horror story of European fascism was revealed, they realized that they had backed the wrong horse.

In 1992  Esther Delisle, published The Traitor and the Jew, a bombshell which explored prewar fascism and antisemitism in Quebec. The book ripped apart Lionel Groulx and other fascists, something that nationalist could not endure. The book caused such a ruckus that the author was vilified as the real traitor, her honest, yet mortifying description of Quebec in the years leading up to the war, unbearable and impossible to digest, fifty years after the fact.

Those nationalists who created the sovereignty movement back in the sixties remember the war years as a humiliation, not only because opposition to conscription looked cowardly in retrospect but also because of the deep fascist attachment that many in the anti-conscription movement held.

Like some Irish today, who still cannot abide the British military, history plays an important part in understanding why wearing the red poppy to nationalist Quebecers is so distasteful.

And so Quebec nationalists have consistently boycotted Remembrance Day ceremonies, the poppy a painful reminder of the inglorious past.
French schools, controlled by left-leaning nationalists, make a special effort to ignore Remembrance Day with the unfortunate result that most Quebec Francophones of this generation are painfully unaware of it significance.

Although the percentage of Quebecers answering the call to arms was smaller than in the rest of Canada, many did volunteer and served bravely, and sorrowfully, many did not come home.
It remains a bit sad that because of the cowardice of some, the bravery of others is swept under the carpet in Quebec.
I imagine that the sacrifice of those francophones Quebecers who did serve honourably, makes the humiliation of those who did not, all the more painful.

At any rate, in a change of tactics and in an effort to be seen as respecting the war dead, a nationalist group came up with a Blue Poppy, something they could wear to honour the dead, without honouring the Canadian military itself.

In a video recorded at a cenotaph ceremony in Quebec City last year, Denis Julien explained that because of the Blue Poppy, Quebec sovereigntists can show their respect for fallen soldiers, without participating in ceremonies dominated by a Canadian military that they did not support. Watch the speech{fr}

You know readers, that's something I can live with, even though a lot of you won't agree and I fully expect to take flack for that opinion. 
The Blue poppy allows some Quebecers, who would otherwise not, honour those who served and sacrificed.
From what I saw in the videos the ceremonies where dignified and respectful and if it contributes to Quebecers understanding the efforts of those who answered the call, I cannot complain...

As if the competing Blue and Red poppies weren't enough, Quebec has now seen the birth of another entry, the 'white' poppy.

Largely a creation of Quebec leftists and Quebec solidaire, the white poppy pays respect to all the victims of war.
"As noted by the group, wearing the white poppy also aims to dissociate one from the tendency of some political powers that use the "Remembrance Day" to justify wars and increasing militarism.
Read a story about the backlash to the White poppy. Link

Remembrance Day in Quebec...it's very complicated.

I was reminded by a reader, of a piece I wrote two years ago about Quebec's general disrespect of Remembrance Day.
It still is relevant and a good read for this weekend (if I do say so myself) in the run up to Remembrance Day.
Read:  Annual Remembrance Day Embarrassment in Quebec

I bet many of you have never attended a Remembrance Day ceremony, other then standing at attention in school at eleven o'clock.

This year Remembrance Day falls on a Sunday, so there's an opportunity for you to attend.
If you have children, take them to see the vets, I know the effort is appreciated.

Have a great weekend!

147 comments:

  1. Sorry, Editor, I'm one of those respondents who is against anything but the red poppy. A blue poppy is another symbol of the federal red vs. the Quebec blue. America's civil war was the blue vs. the grey.

    While English is my mother tongue, I'm not one drop of British blood, and in fact I'm for a Canadian republic, i.e., NO monarchy.

    We're morphing into a multinational, multicultural and pluralistic society. We consider the rights of the individual must be considered over the rights of the collective, but Quebec sees it the opposite way and is fighting the rights of the individual at every step.

    Fortunately, there were those who registered for conscription while others directly enlisted. My late father was almost 22 years old when WWII broke out and he chose to enlist. That way he got to choose his branch of the service, and he chose the RCAF. He requested a tour of duty in Europe, but spent the whole war at CFB Trenton (Ontario). He served the whole six years there and therefore didn't qualify for vet benefits despite giving his country six years of his working life.

    Unfortunately, the veterans today are being treated rather shabbily by the current government and applying, no, begging for benefits is becoming traumatic. That, however, is beyond the scope of this subject.

    I came along several years after WWII ended, and while I don't understand or know of all the nuances described above, the simple fact of the matter was France, the land of most Quebecker's ancestry, was captured and occupied by the Nazis and these draft dodgers didn`t seem to care. This wasn`t Britain`s war, it was a world war and it was the French in the end that needed to be liberated, not Britain.

    If these people want to ease their guilt, they should wear a red poppy like everyone should. I will neither now nor ever see Quebec as a distinct society. If Quebec can`t be a province «comme les autres», it shouldn`t be a part of Canada, period.

    Louisiana is one state in America, nothing more, nothing less. Quebec is one province in Canada (or maybe not someday), nothing more, nothing less. Both are governed under civil law, derivatives of the Napoleonic Code, Louisiana has parishes as opposed to counties, but that where the differences end.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Cant agree with you any more!! Keep on, my friend!

      Delete
  2. FROM ED BROWN
    Some excerpts from a Remembrance day sermon I wrote.

    It was deemed the proper way. The young and healthy going off to protect their loved ones. Mothers, Fathers or siblings, wives and children. Perhaps the most heartbreak for those who stayed behind was saying goodbye and waiting. ………Waiting.
    Mothers and Fathers sent to war the boys and girls they had reared with love. Children who lived deep within their hearts, which for some were to be torn apart..            
     When did it all start?  Certainly not Vietnam or Korea. World War II and I were in this century, and it started much further back than that.
      A few events have been remembered in song. From the American Civil War, a dreadful contest of brother against brother, we have songs like ‘The Empty Chair’ and “Just Before The Battle Mother’ Going back even farther, we have the story of the old Irish grandfather who saw his two oldest grandsons march off and not return. Finally he heard again, the pipes calling the young men to war and he knew that sixteen year old  Danny would have to go. From this song ‘Danny Boy’ we know the suffering of a lonely old man because of war. I’m certain there are many other stories on record of parental heartbreak, Winston Churchill knew this when he said of the mothers of Britain, "they also serve who only sit and wait."
     “FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY SON.”
     It seems that with war there always has to be sacrifice. Sacrificing ones self is the noblest thing one person can do for another. The bible tells us “Greater love has no man than he that would lay down his life for another.”  
    The second verse of the Hymn 'O Valiant Hearts' says it all
    Proudly you gathered rank on rank to war
    As who had heard God's message from afar.
    All you had hoped for, all you had you gave.
    To save mankind your selves you scorned to save.

     Just as his Son Jesus came to Earth to begin the battle against evil, our men and women went to fight against the same ungodly hordes that would have taken our lands and freedom and enslaved our people. Multitudes died, many were maimed and some were never found. The suffering of those who lost limbs, sight or hearing, amongst other disabilities, created in battle were shared by the families who loved them.
    GREATER LOVE HATH NO MAN THAN HE THAT WOULD LAY DOWN HIS LIFE FOR ANOTHER 
    We’re told the dead will sleep for a thousand years and rise to be judged by Jesus Christ, the King of Heaven. We're told that on that day, the trumpets will blare and the gates of Heaven will be opened. I believe Our Lord will look down and say, “All others stand aside. Civilians, politicians wait. Kings, Emperors and nobles make way, let those who are most deserving come first.
    And as the Valiant  file in, Angel Choirs will sing
    “All you had hoped for, all you had you gave.
    To save mankind yourselves you scorned to save.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Very interesting comment, thanks for sharing.

      Delete
  3. FROM ED BROWN
    I can't help thinking that after England went into France twice in a few years at a cost of many lives to give them back their country, De Gaulle vetoed England's entry to the common market. The French know nothing about loyalty or thankfulness. They are also basically cowards. I remember working on the harbour I was beset at night by five french hobos. They used to sleep in the sheds assault the lone individuals they came across. I threw a few punches at the one in front of me and when I turned to face the others they were gone.
    On the same sort of thing I came out of hospital yesterday after five days. It was my habit to sit up at night working quietly on the New York Times Sunday puzzle. I asked the other two people in the room if my light bothered them and they said no. The night nurse is a roughly fourty year old separatist who ordered me to turn off the light. I had no intention of complying anyway but the sneer of hate and contempt on his face made me angrier. I said, "NO" He reached for the light and I took his skinny arm and pushed him away. He threatened to get hospital security to have me ejected so I said simply go ahead. I picked up the phone and dialed 911. While he hesitated I said, "I can also have a TV news crew here in 5 minutes." He walked away snarling. Interesting. Ed

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ed, they're not just cowards, they're (click on the link) and major, major s**t disturbers. De Gaulle proved himself so many, many times, esp. when he stuck his locomotive-sized nose into Canadian affairs in 1967 on the balcony of Montreal City Hall and was asked to leave immediately by then PM Pearson. It's not fair to say that of all of them, but far too many.

      Sadly, your encounter with the nurse is becoming increasingly the norm, but there is nothing like a government in charge that overtly displays its prejudices because many of the citizens internalize and legitimize the government's racism, brings it right to the surface from the rotten cores of their being. This is another example of Quebec's values directly in conflict with true Canadian values, and another example of why perhaps separation or partition are increasingly appetizing alternatives to the status quo.

      Delete
    2. For sure Mr. Sauga - we can't have people that are ill at the mercy of these bigots with the government condoning it. What the hell are we coming to in this country? We have to find a way to isolate these people so that they cannot continue destroying lives in this province. Partition is the way to get rid of them and let them look after each other. We need a partition party to get a grass roots movement going to get rid of them. I hope we have such forward thinking people out there that will seize this opportunity to get a new political option going.

      Delete
    3. I think it was in the paper today, I read that again this type of racism against Anglos was displayed in the east end somewhere, a bunch of school kids were visiting something , one was sporting a poppy and some seppie jerk no doubt made a crude comment about it. Do people even realize what a huge problem this is becoming; this open and overt intolerance that is being sported and openly displayed? People walking up to other people who are having private conversations with their kids in English and they are being told that “here in quebec, we speak French”. When is this EVER PERMITTED, in the FREE western world, that someone can allow themselves to invade another’s conversation and make some fascist comment and in a completely uninhibited fashion, as though it was his right to make it? Why are we allowing this to happen? Let’s face it, pushing the envelope like this, and no one even putting up a fight will eventually lead to obliterating every last vestige of English, everywhere in this province.

      I wonder if the English Media have even stopped to consider that they as well will be a dying breed sooner than later. This will eventually impact their little business machine as well.

      In his time, Hitler as well tested the limits of humanity way before he ever undertook his journey of evil. When no one reacted, he pressed on and the rest is history as they say.

      My solution is to openly embarrass these assholes, like with some kind of youtube video “ a la Amanda Todd, (may she R.I.P.) that will go viral the world over. So the world learns what blatant racist crimes are going on here. This is bullying in its worst fashion and no one should stand for it. The entire world should be made aware.

      Delete
    4. Cutie, the question isn't "What the hell are we coming to in this country?" The proper question is "What the hell are we coming to in Quebec?"

      Having moved to the Greater Toronto Area 28 years ago last week, I'm finding multiculturalism here is working very well, thank you. I have found it very educational to have been working with people from all over the world, including several people from French speaking countries, mostly from Africa and the Middle East.

      I work for a major chartered bank and we celebrate diversity on an ongoing basis, especially Chinese New Year and South Asian celebrations. I've attended Italian, Muslim and Hindu weddings, and will be attending a Chinese wedding later this month. Culturally enriching experiences, and I'm sure this upcoming Chinese wedding will be no exception. I just hope the food is palatable! I'm not overly worried as there will be a large Canadian contingent.

      I have read an exposé by the late Claude Ryan entitled Liberal Values in Contemporary Quebec, written circa 2004. The text, in both French and English, used to be on the internet under the PLQ website but unfortunately was removed; however, I do recall a section where Ryan stated the rights of the collective society trump the rights of the individual, and this goes directly against Canadian values, or at least the societal values observed in the ROC.

      I've mentioned previously, and I'll mention here again that former CBC/History Channel journalist Patrick Watson put together a documentary, ten one-hour episodes, entitled The Struggle for Democracy. There was one episode entitled The Tyranny of the Majority which reviewed where collective rights impinge on individual rights. The subject I recall on that took place in Ireland where a woman wanted an abortion. If I recall correctly, the Roman Catholic church influenced state law and she legally could not have the abortion. Sadly, I don't remember the details well and forget what ended up happening.

      What disturbed me in Ryan's exposé was how he justified enforcing the French language upon the minorities. As I read it, I could not find myself to agree with him, but I can see where the French speaking majority would fully justify it. I believe this goes against the values of society in the ROC where individual rights are given greater consideration. Another reason for separation. Canadian societal values are incompatible with those of Quebec.

      Delete
    5. Yes Mr. Sauga - I meant that question as a message to the federalists on the blog that, in Quebec, we are not treated like other Canadians because our rights in Quebec are not protected at all, by anyone. Our politicians are off to other countries on a weekly basis preaching human rights to anyone who'll listen but neglecting the rights of Canadians in this province. That's the message that I'm sending to any and every politician I can think of and demanding that something be done about our rights in this province. The big P again, talking about the expansion of Bill 101 and I sent off e-mails to the organizations that I have joined asking what we are going to do about it. I also sent one to my liberal MNA asking that they vote these changes down. I will try to do everything in my power to regain my rights as a Canadian citizen in a Canadian province. I can repeat - partition this province and let those go that want out - I too want them out - enough is enough!

      Delete
  4. I feel if the red poppy is not good enough to wear they should just stay home. I'm sorry Editor but I seems to me they are saying only Quebecers fought and died which is an indirect insult to the others.
    What we should do is start a rumor to explain to people that those wearing the blue poppy are doing it as atonement for their forerunners cowardice during the war. I remember as a thirteen year old shivering on the square thinking about the uncle I loved as the last post played and how different life was with him. Every year since I was sixteen I have listened and thought the same. Good memories die slowly. It's hard to find a bugler today that will play 'the post' so for the last fourty years I have used the trumpet stop on the organ. The sound is so natural that people have asked me where is the bugler that played the last post. Ed

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ed, good post. First of all, I do want to recognize those in Quebec who either enlisted or went to war when called up. There were dutiful citizens in Quebec, but sadly, the majority were not and did what they could to escape the call of duty.

      As mentioned elsewhere on this blog and previously is that I don't buy any alibi that it was "Britain's war" or conscription was under the influence of the Brits. Even if there was some sort of British influence in Canada's going to war, it was a World War and had the Western World not put up the resistance that we did, we very likely would have lost. Even though the USA did not officially enter the war until late 1941, they still supplied a plenitude of arms, tanks, etc. as an "unofficial" ally prior to their officially declaring war; furthermore, it was Quebec's mother country that was occupied by the Nazis, not Britain, although parts of Britain were bombed pretty hard. Anyway you want to slice it, Québécois were absolutely wrong to rebel because of reneging for North America would eventually have either fallen to the Nazis, or at least the hostilities would have been fought on our continent as well and Quebec would have been very much in the thick of it.

      Delete
  5. Why is it that Quebec has to try to change history to suit their own agenda? The red poppy is in honour of all soldiers that fought and died so we in North America are free today. Quebec is no exception. They are like little children that throw a tantrum every time something is not about them. Let's respect our armed forces as we should and forget about "blue" and "white" poppies. The money from the sale of the poppies is used to help the military members and their families and has nothing to do with Quebec politics.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Not only did the red poppies grow on the soil of France and Belgium but they did so on account of the blood of Canadian and Commonwealth soldiers who were defending the liberty of today’s petulant ingrates, who presumably would be speaking German today were it not for their sacrifice…

      Delete
    2. Hmmmm...well if that's the pathetic little game we're playing... http://bit.ly/Q1yikM

      There's something to be said about a group of people who keep re-writing/altering history for it to benefit their points of view.

      Delete
    3. If you wanted it to be even more offensive, you could have replaced each lily by a cross of St-George.

      Delete
  6. Blue poppies? You’ve got to be joking! I’ve never seen or heard such a thing in my entire life. Sovereignists don’t seem understand that those poppies grew on the soil where soldiers fell in France and Belgium during WWI (although some of them have no problem remembering the Patriotes’ flag from 200 years ago). Really, they simply have a knee-jerk reaction against anything that happens to be the colour red, even though red poppies that grew on Flander’s fields a century ago have absolutely nothing at all to do with today’s politics whatsoever.

    Certain francophone Quebecers’ disrespect towards the poppy parallels their obliviousness towards the traditional St. Patrick’s Day celebrations, which is basically a Catholic ceremony that, despite traditionally strong bonds between the Irish and the French, has now become considered by some as being an “English” thing (which is particularly ignorant and unfortunate considering Celtic-British relations). Although today many francophones partake in the St. Patrick’s celebrations the same as everyone else does (meaning simply as the celebration of the arrival of spring after a long hard winter), many others actually consider it to be “the Anglos’ St. Jean”, oblivious to their French-Canadian roots in Irish culture.

    How dare they selectively wave the Patriotes’ flag around? For shame!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I still couldn't believe it when a group of those little jackasses scored a place in the parade and were trying to politicize the event by handing out propaganda that showed those of Irish background were also victims of oppression by Anglos and therefore should join them in their fight against Canada.

      Delete
    2. What? They did? I’ve been going the parade for years and never saw them... goes to show what minimal impact they have (if it’s actually true).

      BTW, the video of the guy trying create the blue poppy thing last year on account of his resentfulness and hatred was really lame and pathetic. There’s no way of telling if anyone was actually listening to him… it was reminiscent of the numerous nutbars making speeches at Speakers’ Corner in Hyde Park in London.

      Delete
    3. Thanks for the history lesson.

      Delete
    4. Speaking of Celtic British relations, its ironic because in France Celtic areas like Brittany, the Celtics were and maybe still are very antagonistic towards the French. So much so that they aided the Germans during world war 2. Parts of Brittany weren't even taken by the allies until the end of the war, when the German and local militias surrendered in May 1945. Also during Franco Prussian war, the French army didn't trust many of its Celtic soldiers from Brittany.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Brittany

      I wonder if there were many French Canadians with Celtic roots?

      Delete
    5. Acadians were mainly from the region of Poitou, which is very close to Brittany. It's not impossible that some of them were Celtic.

      I believe Quebecers mainly came from Normandy, though.

      Delete
  7. The stupid dumbasses who worship the (Lower Canada only, not the Upper Canada ones) Patriotes should thank their lucky stars that we weren't subjected to the much worse French colonialist oppression such as that which occurred in Indochina, which resulted in backwards communism.

    From “French Colonialism”: http://www.haivenu-vietnam.com/vietnam-history-colonialism.htm

    Although the expressed purpose of the conquest was to bring liberty to ‘the races and peoples still enslaved by ignorance and despotism’, the outcome was seventy years of oppression and near-slavery for the Vietnamese. The Nguyen dynasty rulers continued as puppets, all rights were removed, and any dissent was ruthlessly crushed. The predominant interest of the French in Vietnam was profit – virtually no attempt was made to better the lot of its people.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The revolt of the Patriots has nothing to do with French Colonialism and everything to do with the contemporaries' desire for responsible government.

      Delete
    2. Responsible government was achieved in the aftermath of the rebellions, so if that was the sole reason ("everything to do"), there should be no reason for some people to still be waving that ancient flag.

      Delete
    3. There shouldn't, except that it represents our (Canada's as a whole) only revolutionary movement.

      Furthermore, the original revolt of the patriotes involved both French and English, it insults their memory when separatists of today pretend like it was the precursor of the PQ/FLQ movements.

      Delete
    4. Agree with Yannick.

      The Upper and Lower Canadians both wanted responsible government and if anything the overlap between the needs of both provinces in this regard informed the later Confederation that would follow.

      Recycling the events of 1837-1838 into a separatist-only propaganda tool is necessary only insofar as one might attempt to recast all historical events into a purely separatist framework.

      The problem with instrumentalizing historical events toward a constitutional eventuality that might likely never occur is that it makes intellectual hostages out of both the student and the subject of history.

      This is incidentally why I'm sick and tired of the overrepresented history and humanities teachers and talking heads who gleefully parrot the very point of view that you, Yannick, are thankfully able to see right through.

      Delete
  8. Des soldats canadiens dans une vidéo raciste

    http://www.985fm.ca/national/nouvelles/des-soldats-canadiens-dans-une-video-raciste-186244.html


    Des anglo-canadiens racistes?

    Im - pos - si - ble !!!

    ReplyDelete
  9. You all seem stunned by these attempts at revisionist history.... This is our fault! We've allowed ourselves to be led by Neville Chamberlains as opposed to Winston Churchill's for the past 40 years..... Bridgebuilding and made to feel guilty for every self-perceived injustice by the French Canadian establishment, was what our own leadership condemned us to, so the truth is allowed to be hidden , unspoken. They labeled heros like Galganov and William Johnson heretics , extremists... so on and so fourth because they dared to criticize the establishment. It's very clear to me that the French Canadian establishment will never give us Respect, so we must Take it for ourselves.. That means refuse to speak French at any or all stores, hospitals, be prepared to walk out of stores,, write letters. if physically harassed on the street, punch them back. it's time that we aired Quebec/Canada's dirty laundry to the world. Canada was and is prepared to fight for Freedom of all sorts of people, except our own in Quebec!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. +1

      This really is no different than dealing with a devil-child: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaKUzKLK48A

      If you jut give in...

      Delete
    2. You're absolutely right Tazmandoo - it's more than past time that we put a stop to these revisionists and fight back with everything we have. I intend to do it non-stop until I'm the lucky winner of a lottery or 6' ft. under, whichever comes first. I've had it with these ungrateful, backward thinking, racist, bigots and am going to write letters and posts until they get as sick of me as I am of them. They've had the upper hand for far too long and it's time to get our licks in.

      Delete
  10. Great! The vice-president of the executive committee of Montreal, André Lavallée, was a member of the FLQ in his younger days…

    http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/regional/montreal/200909/16/01-902623-un-ex-felquiste-au-comite-executif.php

    ReplyDelete
  11. The PQ's thoughts post-Obama election... héhé! ;)

    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=300330280079956&set=a.177513922361593.36017.177354159044236&type=1&relevant_count=1

    ReplyDelete
  12. Only in Quebec...

    If you told these ignoranus' that the sky in the rest of Canada was blue, they would try and paint the sky in Quebec a different colour... stupid...

    ReplyDelete
  13. Thanks Cat - I don't care that he was 19 - a crook is a crook. FLQ members in Quebec are treated like heros and given legitimacy by the very population that was robbed. I know of no other place in Canada where crooks are continually rewarded for bad behaviour by the voters. One law that could be put in place would be that, if you have a criminal record, you cannot run for public office but that would be too sensible. And now he's mayor. Whoopee!

    ReplyDelete
  14. "Denis Julien explained that because of the Blue Poppy, Quebec sovereigntists can show their respect for fallen soldiers, without participating in ceremonies dominated by a Canadian military that they did not support."
    Is he effing kidding? If it's not the fallen soldiers from the Canadian military that they're showing respect for, who is it? Certainly not the Brits or Americans. The Axis powers? The Taliban? The FLQ? Blue poppies, white poppies, why don't they come out with yellow poppies to honour the ones that hid in the woods? What a sad, pathetic bunch.

    ReplyDelete
  15. The language ayatollahs in Quebec City are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill once again... can you believe some useless dweeb actually calls this "the language of Shakespeare"?!?

    http://www.journaldequebec.com/2012/11/08/acdc-saffiche-en-anglais

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. They also call it the language of Jack the Ripper - Idiots

      Delete
    2. Have you read some of the comments? Haha!

      That silly writer apparently never got the memo that bands like AC/DC and Pink Floyd are exempt from Bill 101.

      Delete
    3. Well I suppose that if our resident troll can regularly and carelessly conflate English with "Globish", anything goes...

      Delete
  16. Yes, they would be speaking German had the Americans, British and Canadians not been there to fight the war for the cowards from Quebec that hid in the woods rather than face conscription. The good men in Quebec who volunteered and went to war deserve the respect of all the population of Quebec and Canada, not the ones that decided to run. Boy, if all the seps feel this way, we will have no problems at all with any radicals when we decide to leave their asses behind, partition this province and let them do what they do best, run and hide. Can't wait!

    ReplyDelete
  17. Esther Delisle's The Traitor and the Jew was criticized by Gérard Bouchard. "He contended that only 14 of 58 quotes of Lionel Groulx in Delisle's thesis are accurate, and that the 44 other quotes contain 56 irregularities, including additions and amputations of the text, word replacements that change the meaning, and quotes that are not found in the text where Delisle claims they are. He asserts that the magnitude of inaccuracy discourages him from even considering Delisle's work as a basis for his own criticism of Groulx." ( Wikipedia)(Bouchard is himself critical of Groulx.)

    Was there antisemitism in Québec in the 30s? Of course there was. And people like Mackenzie King refused to allow jewish refugees in Canada during WWII. And people like the young Pierre Eliot Trudeau went as far as writing antisemitic theatre plays. In those days, there were signs across Canada that would say . "Christians only Jews not" . Ironically, googling "no jews or dogs allowed" (which may sound familiar to you) will lead you to Antisemitism in Canada

    But all of this is irrelevant. Groulx is being single out as antisemite because he is a nationalist. His true crime is not being antisemite, his true crime is being a nationalist.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @ Michel Patrice,

      Your "Antisemitism in Canada" link to Wikipedia also describes anti-semitism in Quebec (since it is part of Canada) and the existence of "no jews allowed" signs in Quebec as well.

      From the Canadian Encyclopedia:

      "Anti-Semitism was particularly acute in Québec, where the Church associated Jews with modernism, liberalism and a host of other "dangerous" doctrines. From 1880 through to the 1940s such Catholic journals as La Vérité, La Semaine réligieuse and L'Action sociale and activists such as J-P TARDIVEL helped spread anti-Jewish sentiment throughout the province.

      The most notorious incident of violence against Jews occurred in Québec City in 1910 when, following a particularly inflammatory address by a well-known anti-Semite, Joseph Plamondon, some of the audience attacked Jewish storekeepers and damaged their businesses. The aggrieved Jews launched a civil action against Plamondon. Four years later the courts finally awarded them minimal costs; but the onslaught continued.

      Leading the attack from the 1920s was the respected French-Canadian intellectual Abbé Lionel GROULX. In many ways what Goldwin Smith was to English Canada in the 19th century, Groulx was to French Canada in the 20th century. His savage denunciations of the Jews influenced the province's elite - its clerics, politicians, teachers and journalists. Not only were Jews denounced in the Catholic press but popular newspapers also joined in the assault. Out of this was created the "Achat Chez Nous" movement, an attempt by Church and nationalist leaders to institute a boycott of all Jewish businesses in the province, thus forcing the Jews to leave. As well, since in the view of the Catholic and Protestant clergy Québec was a Christian society, Jews were barred for years from various school boards. What is most surprising about this concerted campaign against the Jews was that they made up only 1% of Québec's population."

      Delete
    2. Durham,

      I understand your points.

      Let me rephrase mine in terms as simple as I can:

      There was antisemitism in Québec.
      There was antisemetism in Canada.
      There was antisemitism in Europe and many other places.
      Antisemitism in Canada is overlooked and antisemitism in Québec is singled out.

      (Just stop if this is getting too complicated...)

      It is singled out because of our nationalism.
      Because our crime is not antisemitism, our true crime is nationalism.
      More precisely, Groulx's true crime is nationalism.

      (Have I lost you, so far?)

      Perhaps you did not get this part : "Was there antisemitism in Québec in the 30s? Of course there was."

      So, in summary : Groulx's true crime is not antisemitism, it is nationalism.

      "Ce qui est très grave dans ce pays, c’est, par exemple, qu’on y traite sciemment des gens d’antisémites pour les punir d’être séparatistes." Pierre Foglia

      Delete
    3. @ M. Patrice,

      You can spare the arrogant, condescending attitude.

      You downplayed the anti-semitism of Groulx by attacking Deslisle's book. And you went into some detail about anti-semitism in the rest of Canada but mostly ignored it in Quebec.

      "Groulx's true crime is not antisemitism, it is nationalism."

      There are parallels between anti-semitism and Quebec nationalism. Both ideologies incorporate narrow-mindedness, intolerance and xenophobia.



      Delete
    4. Wow this sounds an awful lot like the “Parizeau was statistically correct and therefore not racist“ apologist argument.
      Go back to your cave now.

      Delete
    5. Looking back on what I wrote, I notice that, using "and" lead me to build a uselesly complicated sentence.

      So the following sentence : "Antisemitism in Canada is overlooked and antisemitism in Québec is singled out." should be : "Antisemitism in Canada is overlooked. Antisemitism in Québec is singled out."

      My use of pronouns forces one to rely on context to understand the meaning and can lead to misunderstandings. So, in the sentence "It is singled out because of our nationalism.", "it" refer to "antisemitism in Québec". It could have been interpreted as "antisemitism" (in Québec or in Canada) or "antisemitism in Canada", which would be a mistake. Sorry for not having been clear.

      Also, in my Foglia quote, I used the word "sciemment", this word is a little more difficult and is seldom used in daily regular discussions. It mean "knowingly".

      Delete
    6. @Durham, Edgar Trottier : Way to ignore the argument and just repeat yourselves.

      Delete
    7. @Yannick once again you only see what you choose to see. Why don't you force yourself to be a little more impartial in the future?

      Delete
    8. Suis donc l'exemple de Resident Evil, Yannick...

      Delete
    9. @Michel, your blog states...

      "I started a while ago reading comments on the Gazette.com to get an idea of anglo quebeckers and english canadians point of view. I expected misunderstanding but I was surprised by its extend."

      I could tell you right now where your perception of misunderstandings begin...but since you follow up by saying...

      "I most often find english canadians’ views on Québec simplistic and naive"...

      Your general disdain for those who are not like you is clearly evident right from the get-go.

      ...you're pretty much a write-off - like Yannick, you choose to believe what you want to believe and a fundamental life-changing experience will have a chance of shifting your point of view.

      No one on this blog will be able to do it.

      With that being said, I really don't understand why you waste your time trying to convince those who do not adhere, or even sympathize with your sovereignist agenda that they should "see the error of their ways" and magically start encouraging a separatist government to amputate even more of their basic rights.

      Your agenda puts off readers here on so many levels.

      You encourage nationalism - though some readers here are devout Canadians, I don't think they put their national identities ahead of their own individual identities.

      You encourage the abrogation of individual rights to benefit the cultural welfare of one given group - another big fat turn-off.

      You encourage mono-culturalism - boring!

      The main problem is you don't seem to understand the simplest thing...

      ...if you and other separatists stopped causing shit where none needs to be caused, focused on making yourselves and your families happy and just let people be, there would be no further argument.

      Without a sovereignist movement, Anglos and immigrants would just mind their own business and live their lives...

      Delete
    10. nationalist? Just call him a seppie, what's the diff?

      Delete
    11. Du calme TOTO :)

      Même en Floride nous avons de l'excellent service...In French.

      Delete
    12. I am in Florida twice a year and you are dreaming, but just for the sake of argument, where? Hollywood?

      Don’t have an accident though and land your sad ass in a Florida hospital, cause you will be calling Editor or Cutie LOL, to come and interpret for you.

      Also, for someone who displays such disdain for all things ENGLISH every time he gets, you sure spend a lot of time around it! Vermont, Florida, this blog. You may be thinking you are sticking it to us, but the truth is, we’re sticking it to you!

      Oh and a lot of those Americans you so fancy and go on and on about, well guess what? It seems many have been saying this week that they are considering moving to CANADA apparently, the country you love to hate! Imagine that !!

      Delete
  18. Quelle bande d'abrutis

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-4GEpsPpJo

    La branche canadienne des KKK

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. C'est la proverbiale tolérance anglo-saxonne. On permet l'existence de ce groupe d'attardés racistes mangeux de donuts.

      Delete
    2. @ Editor,

      There is a good chance that S.R and Y.L are the same individual, thus breaking your rule for using only one screen name for comments. In the past, S.R responded to his own comments using multiple screen names and he may be doing it again.

      Delete
    3. It would be nice if once, just once, two French people agreeing with each other were not accused of being the same person.

      Delete
    4. It would be nice if once, just once, two "separatists" etc.

      Delete
    5. Ok, Ok, I admit. Yannick and I are the same person.

      I created these two characters, I created a personnal history for each one. Michel lives in Québec, has three daughters, is independist, wants to protect french, etc. Yannick lives in Alberta, has a girlfriend, is federalist, wants to protect french but doesn't use the same kind of arguments. The trickiest part was creating four writing styles (because both characters write both in french and english...). One will notice that I purposely make more mistakes with verb conjugaison when I impersonate Michel and I try not to when I impersonate Yannick. I thought it would add realism.

      Apparatchik is also a creation of mine. I have great pleasure impersonating this character who always writes neverending pieces. But, in the long run, it turned out to be time consuming. So I don't use this character as much as I used to.

      So I created Cutie003 who writes one paragraph comments and that's it, so it is more time efficient. I play this character as a old more or less unilingual anglo lady who doesn't have much of a clue, so I don't have to think of long time consuming argumentations and the comic relief effect is there all right.

      I guess I pushed my luck when I created Y.L. to interact with S.R. (my main character), I am bursted, the clever Durham saw through me.

      Delete
    6. Alright, I clearly don't see eye-to-eye with Michel, but I have to admit, that was actually pretty funny!

      Delete
    7. If you think you can insult me you separatist, you're the one totally without a clue. The only reason any of you seps are here is because you are probably bums at home on welfare and have nothing else to do with your time. Why don't you go preach on the separatist blogs where someone will listen to your insensitive, lengthy, justifications for your bigotry and hatred. Federalists that are on this blog aren't going to swallow your self-pity entries and we are the ones who get to laugh at all of you. Long time consuming arguments are the specialty of your group, not ours. We should be so lucky that you're "bursted" whatever the hell that means.

      Delete
    8. @ Michel Patrice;
      Been there, done that...
      Sarcasm and Black humour just don't work on blogs.....
      But remove the comment?
      You'll have to suffer in public...

      Delete
    9. Sorry Cutie003, I meant "I am busted" meaning I am caught, under arrest, etc.

      Thank you for this heartfelt reply. That's what I meant by comic relief.

      But seriously : I really pissed you off, sorry.

      (But why do I sometimes have the feeling that you were born pissed off?)

      Delete
    10. Editor,

      I think that mostly everyone understood the sarcasm. Vous pouvez quand même effacer mon commentaire si vous avez peur que Cutie003 arrache ses rideaux à force de grimper dedans.

      Delete
    11. I knew exactly what you meant, you fool. If you were a normal citizen on this blog, I would have more manners than to point out typing errors to you but you deserve to have your many disrespectful comments and bigotry pointed out to you over and over. You're not sorry you pissed me off and I don't care how you feel about me anymore - there was a time, before the last election, when I may have had the grace to listen to some of your arguments but no more. I'm sick of you people blaming anglophones, allophones and the ROC for your miserable lives and I don't intend to sit back for the abuse any longer. Find the humour in that.

      Delete
    12. Michel - That was pretty funny, actually. :) J'ai bien apprécié.

      Cutie, I don't think I've ever seen Patrice been a bigot and disrespectful - mostly people have been bigots and disrespectful towards him. It seems to me like people impute him all kinds of crazy opinions just because they know he wants the separation of Quebec. That he soldiers on and still writes here is inspiring.

      Delete
    13. Comment cutie fait-elle pour savoir que je suis sur le BS et que j'écris à partir du sous-sol de mes parents?...Je n'ai même pas de webcam.

      Delete
    14. Sorry Yannick but I find all separatists disrespectful because they condone the PQ government's bigoted and hateful platform. Just watching the news from CJOH in Montreal and there is the big P telling the business community that she wants more trade with the U.S. and more oil exploration in Quebec. What she doesn't say is how they are going to conduct business with the U.S. in french only, which is what the people who vote for her think is possible. Guess she just forgot to mention fracking and the little requirement for french only employees for small business. Guess they're going to use Google translate for the correspondence with the U.S. Two faced witch. They should be shaking their heads to loosen up the sand.

      Delete
    15. De plus en plus d'américains parlent français,la dernière fois que je suis allé sur la côte Est,j'ai été agréablement surpris,surtout dans le Vermont.

      Delete
    16. Wow Yannick, I guess you find Mein Kampf inspiring too.

      Delete
    17. Hahahahahahha the American's speak WHAT??? FRENCH??? They don't even speak Spanish and it is practically a second language in the US. Listen troll please shut the f. up be thankful for your English lesson , once again, free of charge, c/o all of us and especially Editor.

      Delete
    18. Burlington est pratiquement plus français que Montréal...Étrange mais surtout surprenant.Les americains ont vraiment un drôle d'accent lorsqu'ils nous servent en français.À tous mes amis Québécois,n'hésitez pas à donner plus de pourboire,ils le méritent bien.

      Delete
    19. Michel: Personally, I think you should stick with the Apparatchik persona. You always come across as being a lot more articulate and intelligent with lucid, well-thought out arguments. With some, but not all, of the comments you write under the Michel Patrice name, it sounds like you haven't really reasoned through what you're trying to say, and frankly, it's just drivel. Clearly, although it may take longer, it's worth the effort.

      Delete
    20. You moron you actually think it is Americans serving you? You are a troll !!

      Delete
    21. 2.5% of Vermont speaks French at home. Think before you speak.

      Delete
    22. Ohhhhh my a whole 2.5% OMG. I gotta go home and brag about that!!!

      Funny when I visit Vermont I never meet anyone who speaks French to me. Perhaps because when I leave this miserable province, I also leave the French behind and revel in the fact that I can speak ENGLISH all my heart pleases.

      You are also a little seppie at heart Yannick, but I think we all know that already.

      Delete
    23. 2.5% of people who speak it at home, concentrated in the North. So not impossible for a business who wants to accommodate Quebec tourists to find a francophone worker. A fair number of businesses in Burlington are providing French services. You would know that if you read this blog more often, it's been reported on on more than one occasion by the Editor.

      "I also leave the French behind and revel in the fact that I can speak ENGLISH all my heart pleases."

      And they make fun of me when I say that some people are anglo-supremacists. When I go back home, I don't revel in leaving English behind. What a sad individual you are.

      Delete
    24. Yannick, you're once again missing out on the Quebec experience.

      Don't forget some here are not just Anglos, they're 50/50 (like yours truly), and once in a while some enjoy using the language they prefer without having to put up with any bullshit or nasty glances.

      This is why I keep telling you that you're talking about what you simply don't understand.

      Delete
    25. Yannick,

      You felt hurt by my comment that you’re a closet seppie and that I rejoice in leaving French behind when a leave Quebec and you felt you had to retaliate by calling me an Anglo-supremacist and a sad individual.

      I may be English speaking and take great issue with unjust and illegal language laws being shoved down our throats, not to mention the despicable level of intolerance being displayed toward the English language of late in this province, but that hardly makes me Anglo- supremacist.

      I do not wish to see the extinction of French or of any language for that matter, as I value what Language is; especially since I am fluent in several myself. I don’t think many others who read my comments (except those of your persuasion) on this blog actually felt “blesse”, by it and why? Because language is a completely emotional issue for you all; always has been and always will be. But ‘Emotion’ is irrational and goes nowhere fast. I earn my living communicating in French 8hrs a day and it’s fine and it’s great! it’s what feeds me, however I would feel the same about leaving Japanese behind if it had become some kind of fascist movement to prove a point. Language does not define me, I am a lot more than the words I mutter or write to communicate and here-in lies the problem for many of you who think they are what they speak and anyone speaking in a different language is a menace to you. Problem is many have never gotten on a plane and travelled to the far reaches of the earth, to realize how rich they actually are for living in this country that is CANADA. Instead of taking advantage of it and embracing how fortunate they are, they are on a mission to spit on it every chance they get. Blue poppies is just another emotional outburst and I don’t much care how it’s packaged, ultimately it is a rejection of something that is perceived as Canadian.

      As far as you’re concerned, I hope you figure out who and what you are. I do read this blog and I read your comments and it appears that you often express a subtle inner identity battle. Let go of the emotional side of the issue and you will figure out who you are. Good Luck.

      Delete
    26. Apparatchik is also a creation of mine. I have great pleasure impersonating this character who always writes neverending pieces. But, in the long run, it turned out to be time consuming. So I don't use this character as much as I used to.

      Amusing. I don't quite know whether to take that as a compliment or as an tongue-in-cheek commentary. Perhaps a playful yet lucid reflection is called for.

      If imitation is indeed the best form of flattery, then impersonation must be nothing less than glowing endorsement.

      But if such impersonation is later scaled back, either due to the impersonated's intrinsic characteristics or for the extrinsic priorities of the impersonator, I hesitate to say whether it is praise or instrumentalization that is truly being manifested...

      All intended sarcasm aside, it does make for a thought-provoking exercise. ;-)

      Delete
    27. It's a bit of a joke to see Yannick making claims about French service in Burlington when he's probably never been there and he lives in Calgary near the other end of the continent.

      I've traveled to Burlington quite a few times and I've never heard anyone serving customers in French.

      Delete
    28. @durham

      Il n'est pire sourd que celui qui ne veut pas entendre ;)

      Delete
    29. @Durham : I don't need to have been there. I have access to news reports and census data. All you have is an anecdote.

      Speaking of which...

      @AnecTOTE : What an amazing change in tone! Before you were calling S.R. a moron for saying that some American stores along the border sometimes serve customers in French (they do) and expressing your jubilation at being able to leave french behind and be able to speak ENGLISH!

      Then you make some very cogent points about Language being an emotional issue for Francophones (it is). It seems to be an emotional issue for you too, though, otherwise you would not "revel" in being able to leave French behind. I'm having a hard time making sense of the AnnecTOTE who tells me this, and the one who tells me that he works in French and that it does not bother him.

      As you suspect, I do often feel myself torn between two sides. One one hand my identity as a Canadian, on the other my identity as a Francophone. Before I left my home town of New Brunswick, I never would have thought that these could be at odds with each other, it's only through contact with francophobes that this conflict seems to have arisen. This ties in what Adski was saying.

      I'll tell you one thing, though. If one day I do become a separatist (despite what you say, I am not a "closeted separatist"), I promise you it won't be because the separatists will have convinced me with the intelligence and strength of their arguments. Instead, it will be because other Canadians will have convinced me that reconciliation and compromise is impossible.

      Delete
    30. Yannick - can you not already see that reconciliation and compromise are impossible? I do, as time after time the PQ are elected to office even after their hateful campaigns of them against us and their whole platform that excludes any kind of friendship or working relationship with the ROC. What else do you need to become Canadian when you see how unreasonable, self destructive and selfish the separatists are? I would think your decision would be pretty clear as you are not a quebecer.

      Delete
    31. The PQ got elected to office with 32% of the vote, even at the end of a deeply unpopular government. They're a joke, god knows why the other two parties let her take office.

      I'll accept that the PQ matters if they win an election after the Liberal leadership race has finished.

      Delete
    32. @ Yannick,

      AnecTOTE's encounters in Vermont were similar to mine. There is nothing like first-hand experience, and you have absolutely none at all in Vermont. And I don't place too much importance on the bits and pieces of information that you manage to dig up on the net.


      Delete
    33. 32% was enough to give them the minority = to me this shows that quebecers are still allowing the PQ govt way too much trust and power - there are at least that percentage that do not want to work anything out with the ROC so I don't see where or why your loyalties should be confused. You're not from Quebec and you don't live in this destructive and bitter environment every day like we do - the press, the editorials, the dollar value of our homes dropping like a rock, fighting for fair treatment on a daily basis, etc. I don't get it.

      Delete
    34. Yannick,

      You mention:

      “It seems to be an emotional issue for you too, though, otherwise you would not “revel" in being able to leave French behind”.

      I thought I had already covered this point well.. when I said:

      “however I would feel the same about leaving Japanese behind if it had become some kind of fascist movement to prove a point”

      Despite what you may believe, Language is not an emotional issue for me because I am not of the idea that I am nothing without it, and I can only have a sense of identity with it. This may also be why I speak 4. It is a devise, an instrument, I use to communicate with people, nothing more and nothing less.

      By emotional, I mean that Francophone Quebecers have this tendency to wear it (the emotion) on a sleeve like an open wound reminding everyone that they're still hurt. Ultimately, they haven’t come to terms with the past and that “wound” has festered to such a point that it has completely paralyzed them in the present and will continue to do so in the future. I know I know, you have hear this cliché a million times, bab bla bla. It is true however. This is not rhetoric

      If and when they let go of this, language will never define them again, and they can open themselves up to the astounding possibilities there are out there.

      As an “evolved” population, this province is still in its infancy. It has a lot of growing up to do. This demeaning behavior of blatant intolerance that has become prevalent lately, and also for decades denying people basic rights, democratic rights, of deciding for themselves on the question of language and education; it really has a longgggg way to go. To be clear, this observation, which I offer, I do so without passion or prejudice.

      Delete
  19. I really wish these seps would find other things to do than find obscure, irrelevant videos or quotes from some stupid website where 5 or 10 people have something to say. God, get a life. Find something else to do with your time. Go to a street corner somewhere and yell and scream = don't waste our time here - we have better things to do with our time. Glad you're feeling better Ed. Don't let the seps get you down and you were right = always threaten them with publicity and then publicize any experience you have wherever you can. They don't like bad press - Tough

    ReplyDelete
  20. FROM ED BROWN
    I dunno Michel. My my RC friends back then used to tell me that a Priest named Groulx would get up in the pulpit and denounce the English and the Jews. My friend (O'Connor) was as English as I was but his French mother put him in French school. There really was no nationalism back then but he wanted recognition for the French that had been there when the English arrived. His odd appearance ( no neck
    cauliflower ears and little piggy eyes made him a laughing stock with the french kids. I saw him a couple of times at outdoor festivities and St.Jean Baptiste parades which he later led but he smiled a lot and seemed to be rather nice fellow. Ed

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. To me, Groulx is a figure of the past. To hear of someone who knew Groulx is surprising. No offense, mais ça ne doit pas vous rajeunir... : )

      "There was no nationalism back then."

      If, by nationalism, you mean separatism or independence, you are right. I don't know that much about him, but he is recognized as a nationalist by historians.

      Here is a picture of him, he is not much uglier than the average man... : )

      Delete
    2. Former Premier Honoré Mercier advocated independence back in the 1880's. Separatism has been around for a very long time, nationalism even longer. For straight-up Nationalism, see Mercier's "Parti National, which Wilfred Laurier widely condemned as being a "Race Party". Separatism itself was just was not a popular movement until the PQ.

      Plus ça change, plus c'est pareil.

      Delete
    3. I think ED mentioned that back in the 50s a large % of even Plattsburg New York, were of French Canadian origin and spoke French to the French speaking tourists from Quebec. Also there was some article a while back about local merchants in Burlington taking French lessons to serve shoppers from Quebec.

      Delete
    4. In Burlington we have merchants going out of their way to take french lessons in order to better serve potential customers from Quebec. In Quebec we have people refusing to serve people in english. The first approach is likely to result in higher profits for the owner, higher wages and greater job security for the employees, and higher tax revenue for the various levels of government. The Quebec model is going to result in less of everything. Good plan.

      Delete
    5. The tourist industry is a big thing in Québec City and we have people from around the world visiting the city. Few of them speak french.

      So a friend of mine worked in a jewelry store and the store owner had his employees attend language classes. Of course, they took english classes right?

      No, they took japanese classes since most of the staff already spoke more than enough english to take care of curtomers. Japanese are big spenders, they don't speak english that much, they expect store employees to speak english but they really don't expect them to speak japanese. So when they do speak japanese, it is a very nice surprise to them.

      Delete
  21. Imagine if Romney would have blamed the black and latino vote for his loss? It would be factually correct (like racist apologists say when they defend Parizeau) but it would have started race riots in America.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. In both cases it would ignore the 40% of whites/Francophones who votes for Obama/for the No. That's personally my beef about it - focus on a subset of all votes, ignore everyone else who voted against you.

      But why bring up Parizeau? Are you trying to change the subject?

      Delete
    2. Its a blog where Quebec separatists and therefore racism plays prominently. So Parizeau can make an appearance anytime as far as I‘m concerned.

      Delete
  22. FROM ED BROWN
    Equanimity, your mention of French colonialism in Vietnam reminds me. The people of France at the time
    were fed up with colonialism feeling it got them nowhere. So the Government sent insurgents to Vietnam under the guise of assimilation.
    So they changed the name to "French Indo China' and tried to get the people to assimilate with them. Speaking only french and serving in their army. Some assimilation. If you all become me we're assimilated. Ed

    ReplyDelete
  23. It is in really poor taste to sport a nationalist symbol in a poppy imho.

    It's easy for me to come down hard on Marois; she's a public politician. I bite my tongue in the street, of course -- it's not worth the effort to subject others to my shrill and strident condemnations. Yet I'm floored how many people I see wearing a flag or some symbol in their poppies this year; I've never really noticed it any other year before.

    I think it's weird.

    A poppy certainly has different meanings to different people; some say it's a symbol of warmongering, etc.

    I was always told, without fail, in each school assembly on November 11th, by veterans addressing the student body, that war is destructive and horrible and must be avoided at all costs, to be considered as an awful last-resort only. They had pretty horrific stories to tell us to back this up.

    I wear a poppy and attend Remembrance Day not to remember "Canadian" soldiers, but to think of all soldiers who have died in wars, and all civilian casualties from war as well. I wear a poppy to hope for an expanding peace around the world and to remember that war is ugly, nasty business best avoided. It means something to me that poppies are worn outside of "Canada" in other parts of the world as well.

    I guess I wear a "white poppy" in spirit, but a red poppy in reality; I believe white poppies are from the UK, created by a women's group.

    I'm usually a bit surprised by the many people who consider it a military-specific, or militaristic symbol; I've known many who consider it a sign of supporting war and war industry, etc.

    My main objection is of course that those wily, sneaky veterans make them so easy to lose from your lapel, guilting us into buying more, More, MORE of them!

    ReplyDelete
  24. More precisely, Groulx's true crime is nationalism.

    Well Michel, je suis plus ou moins d'accord avec votre idée ici, mais autant que le nationalisme est un maladie partagé parmi beaucoup de monde, c'est pas nécessairement un "crime". Mais c'est vrai que c'est mal, être nationaliste. Aussi, c'est con, tragique, et un gaspillage d'énergie. Mais, c'est votre vie, pas la mienne -- dieu, merci!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. +1 JBG: "Mais c'est vrai que c'est mal, être nationaliste. Aussi, c'est con, tragique, et un gaspillage d'énergie."

      Anyone who is proud to be a nationalist is essentially taking pride in having no individuality...they are waiving whatever they have that makes them unique.

      Delete
    2. [...] mais autant que le nationalisme est un maladie partagé parmi beaucoup de monde, c'est pas nécessairement un "crime".

      Put another way, if we've got millions of people afflicted with a thought disease, it doesn't deserve to be treated? Sounds like a slippery slope toward endorsing the tyranny of the majority.

      Tyranny of the majority is the true (thought) crime that is perpetrated on all populations, no matter how large or small.

      Delete
  25. FROM ED BROWN
    Edgar Trottier, Trottier was the man Rene Levesque ran over on his election day. Trottier was a troublesome drunk. I'm wondering why you choose his name. Ed

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Edgar Trottier was a homeless WWII veteran. Yes, he was drunk that night but he was no troublemaker. It happened on February 6th, 1977, at 4:15AM on the bend of Mcdougall Rd. (i.e. southbound Côte-des-Neiges Rd.) next to the Gleneagles building. The police had picked him up and dropped him off just outside their precinct boundaries in order to avoid filling out paperwork. Fifteen minutes later, a drunk-driving René Lévesque and his mistress ran over him in the street and dragged his body 140 feet down the road. Mysteriously, there was no breathalyser test administered by the police. Lévesque had been celebrating at his buddy’s place, radical separatist Yves Michaud, who later generously testified that Lévesque didn’t have a drop to drink during the previous evening and night. However, Lévesque was fined $25 for failing to wear his glasses while driving a car on the night in question. He immediately paid the fine.

      S.R has previously tried to whitewash history by denying that this event ever occurred. That is why it is important to remember it.

      Delete
    2. Yes Cat I remember the incident very well. Disgusting that the man was never charged for drunk driving. I remember it was talked about for around 3 days and then forgotten. These politicos, especially in Quebec, get away with the most outrageous acts and the press cover it up all the time. I like to have a few once in awhile myself but I'm willing to bet that the cops or press would never cover up for me - you betcha. What I don't get is that they have access to so many other ways to get around and lots of money to take taxis - have the same problem with the movie and TV stars that get charged with drunk driving.

      Delete
  26. FROM ED BROWN
    Premier Mercier did not advocate independence. he was against the Federal government having the right to veto provincial legislation. His Parti National were mostly liberals and soon reverted to being called the PLQ. Parti Liberal Quebec
    Michel, would you please explain what you mean by ça ne doit pas vous rajeunir... : )Are you trying to say I get exdcited by him being ugly. That's a stupid thing to say. Why do you show a picture of the man in his fourties. When I saw him he was fat and old and he was a comical looking character to the youngsters.
    Guys like Groulx and Mercier were not working for independence, just a better deal for francophones and they did it legally.
    The St. Jean Baptiste parade always ended in a large park where the Church handed out hot dogs and drinks naturally us english kids would mix in. Ed

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I have to partly retract what I was saying. Mercier threw the word "Independence" around a lot, but it seems to have meant the Independence of Canada from the UK, and not the Independence of Quebec from Canada.

      Delete
    2. Ça ne doit pas vous rajeunir.

      Rajeunir = to make someone or something young again, or to become young again.

      It is something we often say in french. For instance, when our daughter begins highschool, my girlfriend and I will say to each other : "ça ne nous rajeunit pas..." I means that it doesn't make us feel young, it makes us feel old.

      So if you once knew someone from the first half of the last century and who is now in history books, ça ne vous rajeunit pas, it doesn't make you feel young, it is a sign that you are aging.

      It was said in a friendly way.

      Delete
    3. That's a pretty big difference.

      Delete
    4. To be fair it was not apparent from the context as I was reading my Canadian history, I had to dig after Ed's message to see if I was wrong or not. I'm still not entirely convinced, there's some dodgy comments about Confederation having "run its course", but nothing definitive.

      Delete
  27. FROM ED BROWN
    JBG They do fall off. That's why I wear mine with a Canadian flag in the center and I don't care who doesn't like it. The flag holds it there. Ed

    ReplyDelete
  28. Cmon guys lets all get along here. In the end, men, women and even children fought and died to preserve something everyone here values: western liberal democracy - with everything that comes with it, human rights, the rule of law, responsible government.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Dépôt imminent d'une nouvelle loi 101

    http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/politique-quebecoise/201211/10/01-4592453-depot-imminent-dune-nouvelle-loi-101.php

    Plein de nouvelles idées très intéressantes,selon le Ministre Lisée.

    Héhé!

    ReplyDelete
  30. 'Selon Mme Marois, ces changements sont rendus nécessaires par le «recul de la place du français», particulièrement à Montréalais et dans l'Outaouais, mais aussi en Estrie."

    Cutie,nous avons aussi pensé à vous.... :)

    ReplyDelete
  31. FROM ED BROWN
    Yannick; Thanks for clearing that up. I took a wrong slant on it and I apologize. I thought you were inferring I enjoy remembering his odd looks. I remember him (Groulx) around 1948 at an RC Church picnic after the St.Jean Baptiste parade. They were handing out hot dogs the boy who represented St.John on the float was in Father Groulx's arms. While the priest was speaking his eyes were on the dogs being devoured by other kids. We all got in line and the man asked my friend in front of me, "are you Catholic." My friend fearfully shook his head. The guy looked at Father Groulx who smiled and nodded yes. After that we were all well fed. As an altar server and choralist in an Anglican Church I sensed the religious aspect of the affair and felt a strange urge to talk to the man. I regret now not acting on it. Ed

    ReplyDelete
  32. Yannick, Anything that's said about 'nationalism or
    independence pales by the PQ's standards today. We must remember that guys like Mercier or Groulx were
    basically tying to help the French people get more attention from the governments both CND. and PQ.
    The Quebec government was always French controlled but knew who was paying the money that paid their salaries. The RC Church had money but none of it went to the kitty. As a Church they were exempt from taxes. Ed

    ReplyDelete
  33. « Dépôt imminent d'une nouvelle loi 101 »

    'Selon Mme Marois, ces changements sont rendus nécessaires par le «recul de la place du français», particulièrement à Montréalais et dans l'Outaouais, mais aussi en Estrie. »

    Oh look, he’s foaming at the mouth again LOL!

    That's right, you keep feeding off the crap that they constantly feed you cause it benefits the rest of us to no end actually.

    Let me break this down for you, most Allophones speak several languages from the get go. They learn their language of origin as well as French and picking up English really isn’t a challenge.

    The Anglos who have decided to stay and live here have also picked up French for the most part and that makes them bilingual.

    The educated Francophone is also bilingual and has no problem whatsoever.

    And finally we get to the unilingual Francophone, and they are actually the target of your newly revamped 101 law. Your government is desperately aiming at keep you unilingual and you don’t even stop to ask yourself what’s behind that agenda.

    I wonder if Mr. Lisée could go back and have the choice again to become bilingual or remain unilingual, which he would pick.

    You’re being slammed in the ‘cage of limitations’ and you rejoice? I suppose the rest of us should rejoice as well. More opportunities for us, it’s a limitless world for us.

    Hehehehhehe!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. J'admire votre grandeur d'âme mais j'ai de sérieux doutes à propos de vos soucis concernant le bien des Québécois.

      Delete
    2. That’s right you keep up the paranoia and the fear. Those two things have gotten you so unbelievably far till now.

      Delete
    3. Oh yeah and I forgot: "Il n'est pire sourd que celui qui ne veut pas entendre"

      Delete
  34. AnecTOTE - You're so right! Been trying to explain that to them for years. Of course, to make them look like bigshots to their voters, the PQ now walk away from any questions posed to them in English. 99% of successful francophones speak both french and english and send their children to private english school so that they too can become successful. They do this because the language of business and science and many other fields are english. I used to work in the specialized field of shipbuilding and ship repairs and there wasn't one french bidder that asked for specifications in french because they would never understand the translation. Of course, being the Federal Government we had to have that in writing from companies like Davie Shipbuilding to cover our asses against charges from political parties like the PQ. You would think that these sepies would smarten up and see the limitations their own political idols place on them. Time to let them go.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Cutie,

    To smarten up would mean they have to use their brain power and unfortunately that is in short supply when you allow emotion into the equation. Emotion cuts off the oxygen to the brain and we all know what follows with that.

    But again, I think it is really wonderful and good news for the rest of us. Their future generations will be catapulted by the economic tsunami that will eventually hit them and they will have no way out. Ours will have the freedom of insight and mobility.

    Already I hear the kids of many friends of mine, now young adults, expressing that once they earn their degree, they are out of here. Not because they are being chased out, but simply because the opportunities are endless everywhere else.

    Knowledge is power, and WE all have chosen Knowledge. THEY, on the other hand choose to have no power. Life is survival of the Fittest! I plan to equip my kids and grandkids with everything it takes to be part of the “Fittest”.

    Others will have to worry about Theirs.

    ReplyDelete
  36. http://www.globalmontreal.com/anglo+reality+check+us+and+them/6442747893/story.html - For those of you who missed the series - that Lisee is a smooth talker- I don't believe a word out of his mouth - he's really trying to make us think that he gives a sweet shit how we're treated. If I just moved here I would probably think the man was out to "help" us. What he calls "totally unacceptable" is the norm in this province and the PQ sit back and do nothing.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. He’s just playing a part and bidding his time. His sights are set on the bigger picture and right now he’s just trying to gain friends and influence people in the hopes that it will pay dividends later. Of course he thinks most of us are too silly to realize what he’s up to and what a duplicitous game he’s playing.

      If and when he comes around, no one should give him the time of day and feed his hidden agenda.

      I hope everyone reads this.

      I hope he reads this LOL.

      Delete
    2. You mean trying to takeover as head of the PQ? IF Marois even gets a sniff of a coup she will do a purge. Marois would rather be the captain of a sinking ship even if it means that the ship can't be salvaged later on.

      If the Liberals get a strong new leader like Couillard I can see the Quebec Libs winning a majority and the CAQ coming in second. On the other hand with the beginning of what looks like a housing bubble popping in Canada it might be better for the PQ to be in power when the s&*t hits the fan. So even if real estate value drops in Quebec and that the PQ victory only started the downward pressure of what was coming anyway, it would be better if the PQ was left holding the bag when the peak of the meltdown happens.

      Delete
    3. J. Street, she not only sniffs it, she knows it. Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer; and if you can torture them a little in the process, more power to you. This is why she stuck him in the post that she did. So the ball is in his court. What do you think he will do with it? Naturally he will try to play it as best he can to show what a valiant a player he is and can be.

      But I agree with you on everything else you said!

      Delete
    4. Oh sure he wants Pauline's job, no doubt. He's working on EVERYONE'S vote, including we anglophones, so he can claim more popularity from the public. Pauline was too stupid or too stubborn to try the same ruse. God, it's so insulting that they think we're that gullible. We have to fight like hell against these people - I can just hear the seppies now - "Mr. Lisee was so nice to them - I don't know why they don't like him" = astonished that we didn't fall for his BS. Mind you, in the interview, he kept insisting that "the premier agrees with this" tactic to deal with the anglophones and allophones blah, blah, etc. "We're all Quebecers together". Yuck - I also hope Couillard gets the Quebec Liberal Leadership - smart, well spoken man and he seems to have some guts - let's hope so; he's going to need them. Been looking at the real estate values in our area and they've dropped at least 20% since the election of the PQs. Many For Sale signs - Seen only one "Sold"

      Delete
    5. According to a poll, Couillard is the favorite of Liberal supporters to the tune of 50%. http://www.threehundredeight.com/2012/10/status-quo-in-quebec.html

      So you may be in luck.

      Delete
  37. Yes, it's sad that we have to see our family and friends leave our area(s) in order to advance in the world. That's the main reason I've stayed is because I'm close to family and friends and hesitate to start all over in a strange area. Damn - it just pisses me off no end. It's OK to be wandering and see the world when you're young and in good health; a different matter as we age. That lottery tonight would change my mind because there would be enough to bring family and some friends with me - bought a rabbit's foot today - lol.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Le parti Québécois est très généreux en tendant la main à une communauté qui ne lui a apporté aucun vote.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I suppose you can seem generous when you are desperately trying to appear politically correct and save face. LOL

      Delete
  39. S.R. - Canada is very generous towards you. French is a foreign language in Canada, and it is dangerous for children to learn it before grade 6 because it can hinder learning of their mother tongue in their early years. You French foreigners are also the best treated minority in Canada.

    Unfortunately we are instituting Bill 202. This bill makes English the only official language of work and social life in the country of Canada. As Canadian-English is threatened by a sea of American-English, all signs must be in English from now on (French will be allowed, but it must be 1/4th the size, in order to allow English to be shown as dominate). We will restrict access to French in our education system, in order to protect the Canadian-English language. Unless both your parents went to French schools, you will have to attend English school--by law. We will also send out language inspectors to ensure English is respected throughout Canada, including Quebec, according to the new Charter of the English-Canadian Language. What do you think, eh?

    Remember, the English-Canadian language is threatened, so we must take necessary measures to protect it. The French minority will have to accept this, it is the will of the majority that succeeds the rights of individuals. We thank you so much for teaching us this, in your province. If not for you, we would never have thought of creating Bill 202. If you don't like it, then take off your hoser, eh?

    ReplyDelete
  40. Hello,
    I would like to make a comment about people in Burlington speaking French. First of all I work at the airport in Montreal for an airline ( rather not mention which one). I spoke to some agents in Burlington and they said the the French Quebecers go there and yell at the agents demanding that they speak French to them. Is this normal behaviour????

    ReplyDelete
  41. Hi there: When you get rude separatists yes that is their norm. They are becoming worse all the time. Apologies from we federalists that reside in this province and there are many of us that are ashamed of the behaviour of these idiots.

    ReplyDelete
  42. 33% of the canadian forces come from Québec.

    And a good 80% of those soldiers are “separatists”.

    It’s not for nothing that back in 1995, the chief of staff said that the canadian farces would respect the referendum result, quenching any idea to send the army to Québec if the “yes” won.

    As it happens, Québec has a very proud military tradition, as the best canadian regiments are based in Québec, as well as the largest canadian military base (in Longue-Pointe).

    So if it decided to send the troops to Québec, Canada would have encountered quite a problem… Most of the military hardware is in Québec, and at the hands of a whole third of the army. What do you think would have happenned next???

    My father himseld became a “separatist” while in the army, back in 1955. As it happens, the only thing that ever prevented me from considering a military carreer was that I would have to pledge allegiance to the Queen of England.

    Non-merci.

    ReplyDelete
  43. Those poppies commemorate CANADA's war dead, not France's (NO,the fleur de lis isn't Quebecois in origin). My father and grandfather -- both proud Gagnons -- fought in World Wars 1 and 11 for CANADA, not Quebec, and both rejected the Quebec nationalist ideology. None of those in our military have EVER fought for Quebec separatism. As for Marois, bigots will stoop to anything...

    ReplyDelete