Monday, September 17, 2012

Why Anglos Hate Pauline.

Most of we Anglos and Ethnics who have chosen to remain in Quebec all these years, are a hardy and resilient lot.
Depending on our age, we have survived various Parti Quebecois governments and separatist premiers starting with  René Lévesque through those who came after,  Pierre-Marc JohnsonJacques ParizeauLucien Bouchard,  and Bernard Landry.

I don't think that I'm talking out of turn in saying that few of us were thrilled with the previous PQ governments and the Premiers that led them, but it seems to me that Pauline Marois, who hasn't even started her turn as Premier, is by far the most disliked despised, feared and unpopular among the lot.

That's my opinion but I daresay that in talking with those around me, it accurately reflects the sentiment of our community.

Our ultimate disdain is certainly not based on the fact that she is a woman, the question of gender is certainly beside the point. While chauvinists would argue that women aren't forceful enough to be leaders, nobody would argue that Pauline hasn't got the intestinal fortitude to lead, she may not be a Margret Thatcher but she certainly is no Elizabeth May.

So what is the difference between Pauline and almost all of her above-mentioned predecessors?
Actually, quite a lot.
"With Jacques Parizeau, it was like an army behind a general, says former PQ minister Louise Beaudoin. René Lévesque was charismatic, emotional and passionate. Lucien Bouchard, was theatrical, it was inspiring. Pauline Marois?
While none of these sovereigntist leaders were perfect, far from it, none were particularly 'scary' and none went out of the way to antagonize Anglos, at least not to the extent that Pauline does.

The first and foremost difference between Pauline and them, is the fact that they all were fluent in English, she sounds like she has never heard the language spoken in her life and perhaps she hasn't.

On the rarest of occasions when she offers a short comment in English, she speaks as if she is trying to repeat phonetically something that was prepared for her beforehand. At best, the effort is sadly amusing, at its worst, shockingly embarrassing .
When she speaks English, her handlers stand beside her anxiously, like a mother attending a kindergarten recital, hoping upon hope that little Paulina will not embarrass herself by botching the three lines she has memorized by rote!
One of the basic rules of politics is not to speak in a language where you are handicapped, even if you can manage a few words. Speaking English so poorly, she looks weak and confused, not a particularly good look for someone running a province.
But the real problem relating to her lack of English is not communication, the problem has to do with the optic that unilingualism imposes, which is a complete and utter lack of understanding of another culture.
Her lack of English indicates a narrow and cloistered life and quite honestly, a closed and restricted mind.
While it may be perfectly acceptable for many Quebecers to remain unilingual, their circumstances allow for it, it remains unacceptable for the Premier of Quebec, a province that is surrounded (as we are so often reminded by sovereigntists) by a sea of English.

All that  being said, the overwhelming  reason we hate Pauline so much is the fact that she went out of the way to antagonize us during the election campaign.
She deliberately beat us up in order to appeal to the hardliners she was trying to win away from the two other more militant sovereigntist parties.
Because of the emergence of a third party, the CAQ, Pauline strategized that she could win the election by appealing to the hardliners, hoping the majority in the middle would split the vote.

It was a cruel, cold and cutthroat move, throwing a whole community under the bus for crass political gain.

During the campaign, she put forward the most ridiculous hardline and repressive policies, none of which could possibly work and most quite illegal, all in an effort to woe away Quebec solidaire and Option Nationale voters. 
In the end, her strategy worked... somewhat.
She may have won the election with 32% of the vote, but even her supporters are loath to admit that it was largely a Pyrrhic victory.
Pauline alienated more than she won over and all the election proved is that if the Liberals had anyone else at the helm except Jean Charest, Pauline would have lost the entire election to a Liberal majority and would today find herself pulling the knives out of her back in the finest tradition of the Parti Quebecois.

In assessing Pauline's character, the only tool that I can think of,  takes me back to college where I recall studying the code of Roman Personal Virtueswhich remains surprisingly useful today;
"These are the qualities of life to which every citizen (and, ideally, everyone else) should aspire. They are the heart of the Via Romana — the Roman Way — and are thought to be those qualities which gave the Roman Republic the moral strength to conquer and civilize the world. Today, they are the rods against which we can measure our own behavior and character, and we can strive to better understand and practice them in our everyday lives." Wikipedia
Here is a sampling of these virtues and how Pauline stacks up;

'Comitas'..."Humour" Ease of manner, courtesy, openness, and friendliness.
Nobody, not even her closet allies and friends could ever define Pauline as such.

'Clementia'..."Mercy" Mildness and gentleness.
FAIL...

'Dignitas' "Dignity" A sense of self-worth, personal pride.
FAIL...

'Firmitas'..."Tenacity" Strength of mind, the ability to stick to one's purpose.
When it comes to the political issues of the day, Pauline has flipped-flopped more times than a trained seal at Marineland.
In the election campaign, Marois did a 180 degree turn on at least three occasion, after public reaction to her announced policies went south.

'Gravitas'..."Gravity" A sense of the importance of the matter at hand, responsibility and earnestness.
FAIL...

'Honestas' "Respectibility" The image that one presents as a respectable member of society.
FAIL....

'Humanitas'..."Humanity" Refinement, civilization, learning, and being cultured.
FAIL...

'Industria' "Industriousness" Hard work.
I give her this one, she's definitely a keener...

'Pietas' ..."Dutifulness" a respect for the natural order socially, politically, and religiously. 
FAIL...

'Prudentia'..."Prudence" Foresight, wisdom, and personal discretion.
Big fat FAIL...

'Severitas'..."Sternness" Gravity, self-control.
FAIL...

'Veritas'...Truthfulness" Honesty in dealing with others.
Big fat FAIL...

Think I was too hard on her?......Please tell me where?
Can somebody please describe her positive attributes. Scouring vigile.net you'd be hard-pressed to find too many articles describing Pauline in a flattering manner, this from militant sovereigntists.

Here is another point that separates her from the other Premiers, who were all stabbed in back by those in the PQ seeking new leadership.
Pauline would actually fall into the category of the backstabber. Remember Gilles Duceppe?

Then there is one last reason to despise her, her husband the utterly detestable Claude Blanchet, who will happily embrace the title of First Lady Husband of the Province.
With his record, he will somehow turn the unpaid position into a cash cow.

But hold on.
Interestingly, there is another reason we are taking such a hard and aggressive position towards Marois.

Can it be, (shudder!) that the nutbar who tried to kill Pauline actually touched on a truth when he shouted his warning?

"Les Anglais se réveillent!"..."The English are Rising!

Is nobody in the mainstream Press, the media or the blog community willing to entertain the possibility that what he said might might have some truth to it, or is it too frightening to even contemplate?

Many francophones I've talked expressed a fear that things will escalate and that the warning was serious.

I get a sense that our community is getting close to drawing a line in the sand and we are now subconsciously testing the boundaries.

All these hateful manifestations towards Marois and the PQ, the Facebook messages of hate is nothing compared to the water cooler talk in the office and dinner conversations around the kitchen table in English homes.
I am starting to believe that the English and Ethnic community is ready to push back, taking our cue from the students who showed how easily and effectively it is to descend society into chaos.

While Marois is talking about doubling or tripling the amount of language inspectors, she should be aware of the seriously destructive pushback on the way and like Charest who underestimated the damage the students could inflict, Marois would be best advised to mind her P's and Q's.

215 comments:

  1. Our resident troll has been encouraging anglos to "wake up" for how long now? Though this is obviously not the right way, perhaps Bain had been encouraged by his admonitions...

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  2. Hugo Chavarie recently wrote this article claiming that “Sovereignty is about joining together, not rejection”.

    Why is it that I cannot bring myself to believe him? We are already trying to join together, not to reject each other so what is the difference? His article smacks of opportunism. Everything that we have witnessed over the past half-century of sovereignist arguments tells us that it's all about franco-supremacism and involves stomping on English rather than promoting French.

    I should hope that Chavarie is shocked by the hatred towards Pauline Marois and her policies. They are indeed shocking.

    Condescendingly, I too can claim that I’ve never had any fight with any francos; some of my dearest friends don’t speak the same mother tongue as I do and it is clear enough to me that most francos are pretty decent and lovable people.

    Chavarie does not seem to understand that most anglos here also share the wish to preserve the French enclave that exists in North America, just not at the cost of eradicating our own anglo-Quebec identity and culture that has existed for centuries now.

    Of course, sovereignty is about rejection… to even deny it is absurd. Quebecers who don’t speak French to the level (or with the proper accent) desired by sovereignists are already being disregarded. If this lack of discrimination were actually the case, then we could surely find a solution to whatever problems seem to exist within our existing framework and without requiring Quebec separation.

    No one is asking you to forget about who you are. You are being asked to add a little “something else” to who you are. Usually, one gets a larger self out of it. Can’t we be allowed to simply be? I don’t see what kind of problem one can have with us just existing and trying to feel good about ourselves. I’m serious. This is something we sovereignists want to discuss, imagine, then build. And we would like you to do it with us. There is no point in doing it without you.

    This is precisely the point that we have been making with sovereignists for a long time now.
    Why is it that don’t you accept it?
    Why should we accept your proposition instead?

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  3. You wrote: "I am starting to believe that the English and Ethnic community is ready to push back, taking our cue from the students who showed how easily and effectively it is to descend society into chaos."

    MEH!Every time in the past somebody tried to challenge and push back, the response from the minority communities was inert, or there were detractors from those who should have been supporting the activist. Howard Galganov faced as much resistance from the English media as he did the French. One year on New Years Day, Galganov was waking up to Gord Sinclair on CJAD stating that he was one of the Montreal news stories for the prior year, but for all negative reasons when Galganov was trying to go to bat for the community. What the hell was that about?

    You ask: "Can somebody please describe her positive attributes. Scouring vigile.net you'd be hard-pressed to find too many articles describing Pauline in a flattering manner, this from militant sovereigntists."

    Since I live well beyond the Quebec border, the only way I was able to watch the election night results was on the national CTV News channel on cable. Beryl Wajsman, the editor of The Suburban, Montreal's largest English language community paper, finally torpedoing that bloody bitch, a former PQ cabinet minister who was on the panel along with former Equality Party leader Robert Libman. Wajsman finally heard enough of this woman extolling the virtues of Pauline Marois. He finally got fed up, but unfortunately, instead of letting Wajsman eat her raw, the news people cut in and saved her from the certain lamb basting Wajsman was starting to give her. I'm pissed off to no end he wasn't given the opportunity to finish the job because he had her wincing and squirming very uncomfortably in her seat. I'm only sorry Wajsman didn't get the chance for the world to see him licking her bones clean.

    This was probably the worst Marois and her friends are going to face. The minorities actually take to the streets and fight and protest? MEH!

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    1. An afterthought to my comments above: Right now, the most ardent activist I see trying to defend the minorities and defy the tyranny of Bill 101 and its most ardent defenders is one of your contributors to this blog, Hugo Shebbeare.

      Now don't get me wrong, I fully applaud his efforts, but everytime he organizes a protest, his "minions" of supporters don't add up to a minyan!

      Now to explain what that meant: In Judaism, a minyan (pronounced similarly to minion) is a quorum of ten Jewish men or more required to recite certain prayers in certain circumstances.

      I think there are times Hugo organizes marches, or just general demonstrations against Bill 101 and its enforcement and barely gets ten people to show up for the protests. It's really disillusioning that the minority communities show such indifference to something they should be supporting wholeheartedly. This indifference, as I have stated time and time again, is the major reason I made my decision to leave Quebec as an adolescent at the first opportunity, and that's exactly what I did! I felt I had no other choice as even my parents felt the minorities had no future in Quebec. About 350,000 of us agreed with that, and I did what the rest of that number did. Sad story, disappointing result.

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    2. Mr. Sauga,

      "Since I live well beyond the Quebec border, the only way I was able to watch the election night results was on the national CTV News channel on cable."

      Have you heard of time shifting on cable/satellite TV? It is possible to watch the local news and other shows on different channels at different times across Canada. This includes the CBC and CTV news in Montreal.

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    3. I totally disagree with you about Beryl Wasjman..he was an embarassment to the english community. He was shouting at her..pointing agressively at her..wouldnt let her talk..downright rude and obnoxious. This Rita woman was actually very calm and collected and spoke excellent english and was trying to speak to this guy in a civilized manner. Obviously his anger satisfied many angry anglos who are just itching to tell off anyone associated with the PQ but its not going to help. Treating your adversary like dirt is not going to make them treat you any better and remember we are clearly in the minority here so in no position to dictate how things should be run here.

      If we cant conduct ourselves in a civilized manner then we are toast..the francophones are just going to get even more annoyed with us and perhaps elect a PQ majority next spring. Is that really what we want..all this macho bravado talk is nauseating..good luck with that strategy..did you not notice that the anglo community does not elect the government in this province. Shouting and acting obnoxious is not a winning strategy when you are the minority.

      All this talk about moving out also is more bravado..if people here are so miserable in Quebec why are they still hanging around. Did none of you expect the PQ to win..I could have told you all a year ago that the PQ would win the last election..you had months and months to sell your house and move away. I have no sympathy for people who lose money on real estate here..people have had years to sell with profits and move away..what are you all waiting for.

      I am an anglo from western Canada who has lived here for over 10 years. The market would have to drop 50 percent to get to where it was when I bought..maybe it will but I am prepared to live with it. And by the way do you really think prices in Vancouver and Toronto and Calgary arent going to tank over the next few years..the entire country is in a property bubble..be prepared for it.

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    4. Durham: I'm not ocmplaining; furthermore, I wanted to watch live otherwise what's the point? Thanks for the tip anyway.

      Complicated: Sometimes a point needs to be made; besides, what about all those endless toxic diatribes spewing out of Gilles Proulx's pie hole (amongst his other orifices) on an ongoing basis? An accent missing on a sign, tête carré this and tête carré that ad nauseum. If anybody on the English CBC just THOUGHT of talking like that asshole, you'd probably see that person being extricated bodily right on the air!

      The man was becoming nauseous listening to that P kist saying how wonderful that conceited fascist of a leader who looks down her nose at what she perceives as her peons of society, and her shadow, that pocket-stuffing husband of hers (but as long as it's Quebec money, I don't give a damn).

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    5. Speak for your appeasing self complicated, Beryl Wasjman is exactly what we need more of, not less. The lies that are so matter factly thrown about by the PQ had to be confronted and it was.

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  4. People who have time to listen to a radio documentary (while surfing the net) may be interested in this CBC documentary about the country with the toughest immigration laws in Europe… liberal Denmark!

    After decades of their famous openness, the “reasonable accommodation” topic came up there too and they have responded with the strongest measures ever. For the first time in living memory, a right-wing government was elected and has instituted policies that demand that new residents learn Danish within 3 years… including serious tests that even Ph. D.’s have failed. A three-page integration declaration must be signed. With no public benefits initially, immigrants must work and must volunteer during this period. Children of immigrants who are 3-4-5 years old who are deemed not to be “integratable” are deported, even if they have no family in the destination country (now revised, known as Rippa’s Law). The “best interest of the child” is not being considered. Immigrant Danish citizens who marry foreigners who are considered to be too close to their own culture are rejected. This has resulted in many people, including Danish citizens (e.g. a Bosnian Dane marrying a Serbian), moving to neighbouring Sweden. Obviously, all of this has meant a great diminishing in Danish immigration.

    The government has since been replaced by a centre-left one that has loosened these very strict laws, wishing to return to the fair-minded, open country that it was.

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    1. Interestingly, I was listening to our newstalk radio station last week, and what some daycares are offering are evening care for children. Get this: Denmark has one of the lowest birthrates, if not the lowest birthrate in Europe, so to encourage couples to "get busy" and make babies, there are day cares offering to take children to give the parents a couple of hours of privacy for intimacy. The number of Danes is diminishing! Smart move, fascist government!

      Y'hear dat, Kay-bec?

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    2. "Immigrant Danish citizens who marry foreigners who are considered to be too close to their own culture are rejected."

      I'm curious what criteria would be used to quantify the "closeness" to one's culture of origin, and who would evaluate it...some brain-dead brainwashed zombie bureaucrat, a Danish version of a QC provincial civil servant with PQiste inclinations, I suppose...

      I'm glad the Danes gave the boot that that reactionary government...the plan to mold immigrants into Danes was insane and doomed to failure from the get go...you either stop immigration completely and start reproducing, or if your people don't reproduce, you have to get reasonable and accept that the landscape will change because non-Danes cannot be turned into Danes by some administrative bureaucratic trick.

      Besides, whether it's QC or Denmark or any other place, I am not fully convinced that full integration is the object. I don't think the "hosts" ever want immigrants fully integrated, because why would they? They probably like feeling like the "maitres" and having people "under them", and a full integration would mean that the chances on the job market would become more equal. I think the real problem is that these "guests", or the "imported ones", are more and more "independent" and stop looking up to the "hosts", and focus on cultivating the links to the country of origin. That is when the "hosts" lash out. So the object is not to integrate the ethnics but to have them constantly and frantically pursue the elusive "integration". And while endlessly pursuing it, they're required to sever the links to their own culture, which is a source of an alternative world view and therefore "dangerous".

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    3. I forgot to post the link to the radio documentary:
      http://www.cbc.ca/thesundayedition/shows/2012/09/16/danish-immigration-german-sunday-school/

      It explains in more detail what you want to know. The point is that for 10 years, Denmark not only virtually stopped immigration but Danes also moved out of Denmark to neighbouring countries. The government that was voted in this only won by a slight majority so it's not sure whether the tide has turned.

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    4. I forgot to post the link to the radio documentary:
      http://www.cbc.ca/thesundayedition/documentaries/2012/09/16/danish-immigration/
      http://www.cbc.ca/thesundayedition/shows/2012/09/16/danish-immigration-german-sunday-school/

      It explains in more detail what you want to know. The point is that for 10 years, Denmark had a government that focused not only on integration but total assimilation. This not only virtually stopped immigration and deterred skilled workers from working there but it also caused Danes to leave Denmark and move to neighbouring countries. The government that was voted in this year only won by a slight majority so it's not sure whether the tide has turned for good.

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    5. Adski: How about zero immigration? Immigrants are not going to be little puppy dogs ready for training and molding. People from all over have their own ideas and choose who to run their lives the way they see fit. I'm Jewish and I'm observing Rosh Hashana, and did so when I lived in Quebec, as did my parents and grandparents when they arrived. I'm secular, so I don't wear the traditional garb the more religious people wear, some a simple yarmulke (skull cap), others considerably more. It's nobody's business if they want to wear all that, it's nobody's business if they don't say "hello" back when greeted and it's nobody's business if they scoff at food that isn't certified kosher.

      Quebec immigrants may or may not bank at the caisse populaire, they may or may not shop at Provigo, or Metro, or Sauvé Frères or other Quebec-run establishments. They tried to run Loblaws out out town, but didn't. They tried to strike at the Wal-mart at Jonquière, so Wal-mart closed, put the union seekers out of work. Now they're in another city with new employees who know enough to keep their mouths shut--or else.

      Any other stupid things? Let's see if Mme. Lookdownhernose implements her promises in the next 100 days - WAIT! Two weeks have elapsed, so now she has 86 days left to deliver.

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  5. Spencer the Spineless PorcupineMonday, September 17, 2012 at 2:29:00 AM EDT

    The thought of protests against the PQ's policies has always felt like it was in the air, waiting for something to ignite it. We saw a glimpse of it in the last week of the election (I think, can't quite remember) when Anglos and Allophones gathered to protest the stricter bill 101 idea. But, after the shooting it seems that it fizzled out, or I just haven't heard of any protests that followed. Are we afraid? Maybe, maybe rightfully so. Tensions are so high that the potential ignition is looming over us like a dark cloud. It seems a lot of people are likely afraid to approach the idea of another protest because it might incite violence. I want to see some push back for Anglo and All rights, but I also don't want anymore people to get hurt. That is probably why major media is avoiding the issue. Many are far more impressionable than you'd think, put the idea in their head and who can know how far it could go?

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    1. So Spencer, if I understand you correctly, protests are being averted because MAYBE violence will be incited? Sometimes you have to fight for your rights, but again, I think the remaining minorities are 38 years past the hour, or maybe 24 years since Bill 178 reignited the fires, but again, aside from three cabinet MNAs who resigned en masse over the thing, not much else happened. The minorities just sat and took it, like sitting ducks.

      I'm skeptical about what will happen this time around in terms of protest. More will leave, the rest will likely, as usual, act like the sitting ducks they have been for almost four decades, and if that's the case, the fanatics will only get bolder and cockier.

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  6. I think the best way to push back is to actually leave this god forsaken province. If us Anglos who make up between 10 to 14 percent of the population leave, I think that would have more of a financial kick in her fat poppas ass. That's my plan anyway.

    This province is already the next Greece of North America, and I want no part of it what so ever. I want to see this woman stay in power as long as she can just to watch her ruin it even more. She will realize that sleeping with the Students and Union Leaders for votes costs a lot of tax payers money to keep them voting for you. Her focus on language and religion to make her hardcore Separatists happy,and hoping no one will realize how much shit this province is in, and with the OQLF all will be ok.

    To quote one of my favourite books "So long and thanks for all of the fish".

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    1. @Steve - Briliant!!!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojydNb3Lrrs

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  7. Pauline is scary because, not only does she have the courage of her convictions, she is out to prove that she is hard-core separatist and as strong or stronger than any of her male counterparts. She only caters to her most bigoted members and anyone who disagrees with her, leaves, because she is unreasonable. Let's hope that she will be gutted by her own party who are famous for turning on their leaders. She has made us (Anglophones/Allophones) the target of hate from the hard core separatists and yes, things are very tense since the beginning of the election. Hopefully the majority of Francophones will see through her for the bigot she is and ignore her call for a majority in the next election in 18 months. The liberals and the CAQ have to keep the witch in line until then or there could be real problems in this province. I still say, to avoid this conflict, that we partition the province and let those areas go that want to go.

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  8. http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/09/13/all-the-nous-thats-fit-to-speak/

    "The PQ gets angry when my colleagues call this xenophobia. Fine. Call it Happy Fun Politics if you prefer. But it represents a fundamental change in the party’s policies on language and identity. It identifies bilingual non-francophones— people whose first language is not French but who can converse easily in French—as a problem. And it seeks to make Montreal a less welcoming home for them."

    "For 40 years the test was: do you greet a stranger in public in French? Now it’s: which language do you speak at home?"

    "Why did the PQ change its policies? Because it ran as a cosmopolitan party advocating “civic nationalism” in 2007 and suffered its worst defeat ever. Appealing to identity politics puts a floor under its support. But now the party is in a fix."

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    1. If bilingual Anglophones and allophones are the enemy now, how long will it be before Francophones who choose to learn English are next?

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    2. I don't fear for my security.

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  9. @Steve - Briliant!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojydNb3Lrrs

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  10. One thing all of these parasites, all of these parties, all of these so called “leaders” have in common. Is their hatred towards anything not metis (they are not French).

    You can spin it anyway you want but they are all the same.

    Charest, Bourassa, Johnson, Marios, Parizeau, Bouchard…Trudeau, Mulcair, Garneau, Chretien, Mulroney…all anti-English language, pro bill 101 bigots. Bills 22, 178, 101 all supported in kebec by all parties. Not one of the mainstream parties will give back our equal rights. Not one will speak out against bill 101, they are all the same. All scum of the earth.

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    1. Well stated, J.W.! In the case of Mulroney, in addition to being the power and glory seeker that he was, his mission, having succeeded Trudeau, was to top Trudeau and have bragging rights to being the PM who got Quebec onside signing the Constitution. Of course, that would have meant giving Quebec the moon and the stars to do it.

      Bill 178 personally put me dead set against [The] Meech [Lake Accord]. To this very day, I cannot profusely thank Clyde Wells, then Premier of Newfoundland [who reversed the ratification by his predecessor, Brian Peckford], and one single Manitoba MLA, Elijah Harper, who courageously stood his ground preventing ratification altogether in Manitoba. Meech was dead and both Bourassa and Mulroney went ballistic. Mulroney didn't have the gonads to let a First Nations person in Harper take the wrath of his anger, so he directed it all at Clyde Wells, who thankfully told Mulroney where to get off. Both are heroes as far as I'm concerned for sticking to their convictions that would have short changed Canada for the sake of Mulroney's personal triumph...and Bourassa as well, I suppose.

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    2. Ah, but don't forget, Mr. Sauga, a crucial part of Mulroney's failure to top Trudeau was Trudeau himself. Wells was a Liberal, and had taken advice from - you guessed it - Trudeau "whom he admired greatly," as Mulroney writes in his memoirs, "and whose rigid, almost messianic views he worshipped. Trudeau now had his camel's nose inside the tent." As Trudeau's biographer John English writes, "Meech was dead, and in the eyes of many, Trudeau had been the assassin." Trudeau scotched Mulroney again in 1991, sitting in the Maison du Egg Roll, where he shot down the Charlottetown Accord during the course of a single interview. To quote English again: "Trudeau was soon identified as the major influence [in Charlottetown's failure], and commentators pointed out that within forty-eight hours of his Egg Roll declaration, the polls had reversed from 43 to 29 percent in favour to 46 to 34 percent against." Mulroney, stuck with two lame-duck accords and the astonishingly unpopular GST to his credit, slunk away from office only to sink still further once the Airbus scandal broke. I will say this: unlike Trudeau, an interview with Mulroney in a Montreal greasy spoon would only effect the opposite of whatever he intended.

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  11. Well went out this morning and noticed a huge increase in the "For Sale" signs in the neighbourhood. Hope you seppies are happy - drive more people out with your damn nonsense and no one to pay the base tax bills on the homes. Where is your welfare money going to come from? Where is your free student fees going to come from? We need to partition this province and get on with our lives! PETITION PARTY NEEDED - HELP! We have to get away from these idiots that are driving us into bankruptcy and fast!

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    1. I agree. Partition and let the bigots go, the sooner the better before they destroy the whole country.

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    2. Pourquoi ne pas déménager si l'ontario n'offre que des avantages?

      Vous devriez en profiter pour avoir des rabais sur un camion de déménagement,vous mettez beaucoup trop d'énergie sur ce blogue.

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    3. S.R,

      I did, I moved. I am now making shitload more money than you will ever do. And I am an immigrant.

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    4. Ce n'est pas à moi que vous devriez le dire,ce sont à vos amis qui hésitent encore à faire le "move".

      En passant je suis très heureux pour votre "réussite financière",maintenant il faut travailler sur vos aptitudes sociales et apprendre à mieux vous intégrer à votre nouveau milieu.

      Encore bravo!

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    5. S.R,

      I have a question for you.

      I am an immigrant. I come from a so-called developing country. When I arrived in Canada, I had 0 years of "Canadian experience". I do not even speak or write French very well. You, on the other hand, were born here in Quebec. You are obviously a native French speaker. You have all the advantages of a Quebecer in particular and a Canadian in general, be it in education, job market or socio-economic milieu.

      How is it that I am more successful in my professional life than you are? The odds are certainly stacked against me compared to you. The way I see it, there are only three possibilities:

      1. You are lazy.
      2. You are not smart enough.
      3. You have personal problem you need to overcome.

      Which situation fits your condition?

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    6. Hmmm...Je dirais...Un savant mélange des trois :)

      Mais j'aurais tout de même apprécié avoir quelques choix supplémentaires.

      Au fait,avez-vous souffert tant que ça lors de votre enfance (au tiers-monde) pour être aussi aigri et agressif?Honnêtement je préfère ma condition à la vôtre et ma bonne humeur n'a pas de prix:)


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    7. Troy, score a big one for yourself. Congrats on your accomplishments against the odds. I relish the idea of partition for not only will the battle be against RoC, but First Nations territories as well. Think they stuck together well during the Oka Crisis? You ain't seen nothing yet!

      Delete
  12. S.R.

    Why not just move off the island once we partition it? Real estate would skyrocket in Montreal if it was announced that the island was no longer part of Quebec so you would get a good price for your Montreal house or property. IF you were renting you would get cheaper place in Blaiville.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think SR lives off-island. Sherbrooke, I think.

      Delete
    2. Vous avez raison M.TS et je suis un des fiers bénévoles qui a contribué sur le terrain afin d'aider à mettre Charessst à la porte.

      Delete
    3. Probably one of the racist gunts who knocked over Charest‘s family tombstones.

      Delete
  13. Yes Jarry - that's what I keep saying but I believe SR lives in his mother's basement and doesn't care if they lose money or they are very rich to begin with. The Pontiac, the Outaouais, Montreal leave Quebec and everyone else that wants to remain in Quebec can buy what they want for $10.00 Quebec money in the enclaves that are left with a separate Quebec. Please, Please go quickly - let's get on with it! I can't wait to hang a Canadian Flag off my balcony and talk freely to my neighbours again without worrying about harassment. What a relief that would be!

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  14. I share the sentiment about Pauline Marois in general..she doesnt have the same stature as previous PQ leaders. As you point out..the fact that she barely speaks english is embarassing and indicative of her disdain with the english language which signals trouble for the english community.

    On the other hand the constant demonizing of this woman over the past few months has been excessive and I dont see how this will help us in the anglo community. At some point many francophones are going to get turned off at the incessant attacks on her and she may very well gain support from it. The attack by Bain already will boost her support somewhat as people will sympathize with her and question the intents of the english community.

    There is a lot of macho and bravado talk here from anglos along the lines of ``were fed up and not going to take it anymore``. However I caution this attitude as this hot-headedness will backfire at some point..we will alienate more of the majority francophone population and it could ultimately result in the PQ winning a majority government next spring.

    Lets cool down..take a breath and even open our ears a bit..maybe Mme.Marois will make an attempt at some sort of peace..she did after all speak a bit of english in her acceptance speech which is quite something comng from her. We are really in no position to make demands and threats when we are a small minority. All the comments too from people stating they will leave and the money will flow out again are not helpful. Francophones and the PQ are only going to get more angry with threatening statements like that even though there is some truth to them.
    And all the people here whining about real estate prices..why didnt you sell earlier this year or last year..its been in the cards for over a year that the PQ would win the next election.

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    Replies
    1. What are you talking about Complicated? Appeasement has been going on since 1977 it hasn't worked. There is not much more that can be thrown at the minorities that hasn't already been thrown on them. The bar will just be raised higher and higher. At this points its better to not play the game and just work on getting the areas the minorities are in out of Quebec. Which will mean most of Quebec outside Montreal island, the pontiac and the native majority areas will do whatever they like linguistically. Actually mutual sovereignty is also another option that would work for the minorities as well.

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    2. In my opinion the partition option will never happen. That would cause a civil war..the francophones would never agree to it. So we would end up living in massive uncertainty, civil riots and so on for years if we tried partition..it would be a nightmare. This partition idea is a fantasy that sounds great on paper but would never be agreed upon in real life. And honestly even the notion of seperation is a moot one as the support for it is so low..the reality is that we are going to have endless confrontations between the Feds and the PQ but no imminent referendum..if the economy falls apart and if the pots gets stirred up enough between the english and the french then perhaps support for seperation will go up but it could take years. And again the francophones would never allow Quebec let alone Montreal be partitioned.
      All I am talking about is to tone down the angry rhetoric..some of the stuff said in the englis media is borderline hateful and bigoted. Are we really going to accomplish anything by going there? I havent seen that type of attitude working anywhere else..we are a clear minority and are not in a position to dictate to the majority are demands..good luck with that..its the cold hard reality.

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    3. So in conclusion, although we may have a point (and Complicated feels our pain, a truly compassionate human being that he is), we should still put a muzzle on it. The francophones are upset, the PQ is upset, Marois is upset, so better bottle it up. So stop raring, tiger, because it only upsets the idiot who's rattling your cage, and has been doing it for decades now. If you keep roaring, he will keep rattling. If you stop roaring then there's a chance he'll stop rattling, at his own convenience, on his own decision, independently of you, in 50 years maybe when psychologically he doesn't feel like a colonized inferior anymore.

      Separation may be off the table, but separation was always a distraction. It's irrelevant whether Quebec stays or goes (I wish it went). What's relevant is how it acts.

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    4. M.Complicated semble être l'anglophone le plus éclairé et le plus lucide sur ce blogue.

      Delete
    5. What has the roaring accomplished..please I am all ears??? The anglophones have been roaring for years especially from the rest of Canada. It hasnt done a thing other than to anger francophones even more. What will roaring accomplish that civilized and respecful discourse could not do? Do you really believe that getting more angry will scare the PQ and most francophones and that they will reconsider and be more accomodating..do you really truly believe that..good luck with that. I dont recall when getting angry has really accomplished much other than when you are holding the bigger stick which we clearly are not. We have no clout whatsoever in this province..even the anglophones in the rest of Canada dont care about us anymore..I get the sense that the rest of Canada would love to see Quebec seperate and they could care less what happens to us lingering anglophones here. Keep roaring all you want but it will be all for naught but maybe you will feel a bit better.

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    6. That it "hasn't done a thing" is a reason for more roaring, not less.

      That it "angers the francophones" is not a reason to stop roaring, it's an indication that the francophones can't be counted on, that they are indifferent and deaf to our grievances.

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    7. "M.Complicated semble être l'anglophone le plus éclairé et le plus lucide sur ce blogue"

      If he is an anglophone. It's highly doubtful.

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    8. I am an anglophone from western Canada. But I have close francophone family members so I understand to a point both sides of the equation. Obviously most anglos on this blog are the hardcore ones who just want to fight to the death and complain/demonize everything about the francophone side. On the other hand the PQ`s ways are not going to help the average francophone as they will weaken the economy further and try to maintain most of the populace unlingual francophone..in effect hurting their own people. Francophones also need to wake up to the realities of how weak of a position Quebec is in economically given the massive debt and high taxes and the incredible entitlement mentality here. An independant Quebec would be financial suicide in my opinion but most francophones wont listen to this as the independance movement is a very emotional one and the cold hard facts get in the way.



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    9. "An independant Quebec would be financial suicide in my opinion"

      On the other hand, it might be the only way to change the people here. A cold shower of sorts. A shock therapy.

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    10. Ye gad! Roaring and rattling...roaring and rattling, i.e., again, like for the last 40 years, big talk, no action.

      Civil war? MEH! MEH! MEH! Like I wrote before, the Quebec enlistees would first unionize, form grievance committees over lousy food, accommodations, uniforms and maybe weaponry! More energy and time would be spent with the grievance committee than fighting? Remember conscription? Too many Québécois are too chicken and would run into the woods if they saw a draft board coming to get them! Finally, the minorities would have no choice but to join the pro Canada forces because they'd likely fail their French language proficiency exams!!!

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    11. @Adski and complicated : I think you both have a point.

      I think adski is right that only conflict can bring about change, but I think complicated's point is that this conflict has to be presented in a non dichotomous way. Nothing will get you violence quicker than hasty generalizations, talking in absolutes, lumping everyone in the same bucket, etc...

      For instance look at MLK - certainly he did help to force power to change, it did not happen on its own. But he also used a non-abrasive tone, using logic to explain the unfairness of the current situation and was accepting of people who were part of the majority but saw the wisdom of his words.

      That's the path you need to follow if you want any change to occur in this province, because like it or not you need to convince the majority to your point of view. So many of you undermine themselves by following their "bill 101 is unfair" statement by a "Quebecers are terrible people". And then you wonder why you're not going anywhere.

      It's not as if the only two paths open to you were total war or abject surrender. One can stand up for themselves without flinging stones at the enemy. In fact, isn't that what you are asking Francophone Quebecers to do?

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    12. Sometimes changes come unexpected. People had no expectation of the fall of Berlin Wall on the very day it fell. Sometimes things happen without any or little violence (Poland, East Germany, Czechoslovakia in 1989). They happen when enough people lose their faith in the system and opt out spiritually out of it, and they start living outside the system, or parallel to it but not in it.

      I think those who are still counting on the francophones are complete fools. Francophones have a system set up for them. They won't budge an inch, and it's not even about the historical animosity, it's about an economic interest. Trying to plead with the francophones is a complete waste of time, the best you're going to get is a fake expression of solidarity, then a "but", then then the usual stuff about protecting culture and language (while the main thing that's being protected is the unmentioned slice of the pie).

      Counting on the electoral process is waste of time too, for the same reasons as above, though I still advocate voting for the PLQ, as the lesser evil, as in "we'll f**k you all the least". The PQ and CAQ will f**k us more, and with a big grin on their faces.

      Talking about war and violence is a waste of time. These are unlikely, and so not worth it. Partition is also a non-issue for me. I don't care if QC leaves intact or partitioned, as long as it leaves, I'm happy.

      Ottawa won't help much directly, but it can indirectly. How? By gutting the transfer payment program, for starters. By reducing (or gutting) QC's market shares in the RoC. By imposing trading quotas on QC...All these can get QC to leave, or at least will prevent QC from benefiting economically. What's the connection between QC's economic downfall and us? The connection is that I believe that the only way the situation of the minorities will change in QC is when the francophones finally reflect on themselves. And they will not reflect on themselves by having us stroke their egos and pleading with them. The only thing that can change their minds, their culture, their philosophy, is an economic crisis.

      The key to our problems is a major and severe economic slump. Until then, we can only bide our time and hope for one. For now, we should be waiting for 2013 when the transfer payment is up for renegotiation. And hope that the program goes. That will be the first step.

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  15. Boy! I don't why I should have to sell to suit the separatists - that's the whole point! Why are we still letting these people drive us out of our homes that we have lived in for 100s of years! We are Canadian and we should have the same rights as all Canadians in our own homeland - AND IT IS OUR HOMELAND AS MUCH AS IT IS THE SEPARATISTS - my friends, my neighbours, my family, - WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO LEAVE MY HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!And yes we have a right to bitch about real estate values every time these jugheads get into power! You sound like you believe they have to right to take away our Canadian Citizenship rights and we disagree on that! Partition please - out bigots, Canadian territory with our homeland in situ is the way to go. Write to MPs, newspapers, radio shows, anyone that will listen and let's get on with a 75 Federal electoral referendum under the Clarity Act, all legal and final, and let those areas of Quebec go that want to go - We will remain with Canada in peace and tranquility!

    ReplyDelete
  16. Quebec Liberal chided for equating separatists with Nazis

    http://www.torontosun.com/2012/08/06/quebec-liberal-chided-for-equating-separatists-with-nazis

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Just because someone is compared to Nazis doesn't mean it isn't true.

      Godwin's Law

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  17. cutie - You just dont want to believe the cold hard truth. The bottom line is that there is no sign of Quebec changing..even with the Liberals anglophone rights have been declining. The francophones have a clear majority and will decide the government. We can whine all we want and write all we want to the Feds and it wont change anything. If you really cant stomach Bill 101 or any changes to it then you better leave. It is not going away..Harper is not going to ride to our rescue. Quebec is going to continue to raise taxes and the economy will continue to be sub par here compared to elsewhere. Partition is a desperate dream by many anglos here but it will never happen..just the attempt at it would result in riots and likely more anti-anglophone measures. Things could get a lot worse which may be hard to believe but they can..if most francophones turn against us then and a demand for partition could certainly trigger it then we will be attacked even more vehemently. Can you imagine what real estate prices would be in that situation..things are good now. They could get a lot worse especially if we start trying to pick a fight that we cant win. The best we can hope for is a renewed calm between the two communities and perhaps a return to the Liberals or CAQ in the next election..but it wont happen if the anglo community gets too insulting or obnoxious.

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    Replies
    1. You're wrong. Whining helps. It helps the person get thing off his/her chest, it gets people with similar ideas together, it consolidates views, it clarifies things, it helps people decide where they stand. Whining can also change into action, whatever that action may be (although I never went to any rallies, my actions did change... from being smiley/complacent/ready-to-please when dealing with my "hosts" to being unmoved, passive, uninterested, coldly indifferent - and they DO sense it and are nicer to you the colder you are to them, interestingly). Also, the power never concedes anything on its own accord, it only concedes when pressured. Status quo won't change on its own, and whining has always been the first step to changing the status quo.

      I'm not sure about others, but I'm planning to continue whining. Whine like I've never whined before. And please Complicated, do not say "we". (We can whine all we want and write all we want to the Feds and it wont change anything.). Out of your mouth, "we" just sounds wrong.



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    2. Wow victim mentality like crazy. You've got to stand up for yourself and not let people that hate you for an intrinsic quality like language steamroll you. Fight back, push for partition, there is a light at the end of the tunnel and that light is partition, excise the francophone regions that hate anglos simply because they speak English, and move forward and upward. If you don't have the stomach for a fight, at least grow a backbone and don't buy in to the complete and utter BS that "French is in danger."

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    3. I agree with you that whining probably makes you feel better but other than that its pretty useless and frankly juvenile. I think you are pretty naive to think the Feds and the rest of Canada will come to our rescue. The rest of Canada is sick and tired about worrying about Quebec and there is a growing movement to kick us out of the country..I am not joking.
      And the sad reality is that the rest of Canada would end up much better without Quebec..they wouldnt have to send billions of dollars over here..they could end bilingualism which would save more money and they could get on with more important issues than always worrying about what les Quebecois think. However it would still be a drain on the country for at least 5 years and the negotiations would get very ugly. Partition would never happen either because the rest of Canada wouldnt support it or care enough about it to fight for it.
      That is the cold and hard truth. But dont let me stop you from whining...

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    4. Je suis un seppie pure-laine (nazi) et si j'avais à négocier quoique se soit avec un anglophone,M.Complicated me semblerait un bon choix et j'éviterais les mentalités telles que adski,qui ne font que jeter de l'huile sur le feu.

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    5. "No one, including the leaders of the opposition, expected a swift and stunning collapse. I was with the leaders of the opposition on the afternoon of November 9, 1989. They said they hoped that within a year there would be free access back and forth across the Berlin Wall. A few hours later, the wall, at least as an impediment to human traffic, did not exist." - Chris Hedges, "Days of Destruction, Days of Revolt"

      "Ideas that have outlived their day may hobble about the world for years, but it is hard for them ever to lead and dominate life. Such ideas never gain complete possession of a man, or they gain possession only of incomplete people" - Alexander Herzen

      "Should they not be convinced of the excellence of the system which makes them what they are? Henceforth they will defend it aggressively; they will end up believing it to be right." - Albert Memmi - "The Colonizer and the Colonized"

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    6. "But dont let me stop you from whining..."

      You'd be naive to even try.

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    7. Adski wrote: "Also, ...power never concedes anything on its own accord, it only concedes when pressured. Status quo won't change on its own, and whining has always been the first step to changing the status quo."

      "The whole history of the progress of human liberty shows that all concessions yet made to her august claims have been born of earnest struggle. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favour freedom and yet depreciate agitation, are people who want crops without ploughing the ground; they want rain without thunder and lightning; they want the ocean without the roar of its many waters. The struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, or it may be both. But it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will."---Frederick Douglass

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    8. Chris Hedges actually included this very quote of F.Douglass in "Days of Destruction, Days of Revolt". It is so right. Power never concedes anything without a demand. Never did, never will. In fact, not demanding produces the opposite effect - power gets greedier and asks of us more. We've been polite residents of QC, quietly tolerating 101, against our true feelings about it, as something transient that will be dismantled by the "majority" when the "majority" (which can't stop acting like an insecure minority) finally regains its "confidence", so we should just wait patiently...What do we get in 2012? More restrictive and imposing 101, along with clear insinuations that knowing French may not be enough, that we maybe should start speaking it at home.

      Delete
  18. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Comments like yours are what is hurting the anglophone community here in Quebec. Take your hateful bigoted and idiotic statements elsewhere.

      Delete
  19. FROM ED BROWN
    My God, I'm sick of 'complicated' crying the blues for the separatists. We anglos should just lay down and say nothing. It's guys like that who make people like Galganov give up. There are people who don't have the courage to stand up for themselves. They usually keep quiet and let others fight for them. His
    attitude is defeatist. It makes me think of the Jews that allowed themselves and their children to be led off to death camps without fighting back. Look where it got them. If the idea of this column is to rouse the English , we'll never do it listening to him. When I was in third grade there was a fifth grader boy who used to wait outside school and beat up on smaller kids. Some kids gave him candy . We had no money back then. Once he beat me badly. When I got home my mother said. Don't disgrace us, We're Irish. Next time hit him back as hard as you can. When he started beating my freind I jumped in and beat the hell out of him. He changed drastically and became a really nice kid. The irish fought back and it got their country free. Ed

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    1. Ed Brown - This isnt grade school..your analogies have little to do with the reality we are facing. Anglophones have been roaring and complaining for 36 years here and nothing has changed nor will it. If anything the stubborness of many anglophones created the conditions that led to the PQ coming into power and enacting Bill 101 in the first place. Maybe if the minority anglos here had tried to speak some French and fought to have bilingual services then a lot of francophonoes would not have revolted and gone towards the idea of seperations.
      And please spare me the WW2 nonsense..its insulting for you to compare use to the Jews during WW2..anglos still have a lot of rights in this province. Last time I checked we had english schools, english hospitals, english media all for a relatively small anglo population. If a francophone moves anywhere else in Canada they will not have french hospitals or french universities so stop with your dramatizations here.
      A lot of the older anglos still lingering here are a big part of the problem..they are stuck in the past and only offer confrontation as the solution.

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    2. Hasn't the problem been created by the confrontationalism (read: terrorism) of certain sections of the Francophone society? And what is your solution then?

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  20. Note to contributors;
    As you might have guessed, comment moderation has been turned off today, as I was travelling and unable to monitor things.
    Actually there wasn't much to remove and I decided to let some borderline stuff that was up for hours remain.

    Moderation will be up and down as my schedule provides this week,so if you see something nasty, I beg your indulgence, I will fix things up when I can...

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  21. After leaving Quebec, I need to change my opinion drastically regarding two issues in education.

    1. I support the application of Bill 101 in CEGEP and university, all the way to post-doc. The way it happens now, English-speaking students are in disadvantage because of the artificial competition. While space in the French system is available, graduates from the French system are flocking the English one, and not vice-versa. In university level, real competition is given by the presence of international and RoC students. The collateral benefit is that those students bring more money in tuition for the universities.

    2. I support the red-square student movement. Quebec is one province very high in social programs, tuition ought to be free for Quebec students. I may even support La Classe in their struggle. My reason is because my child immigrated through Quebec - and subsequently became a citizen - for tuition purposes he is considered as if he was born in Quebec. Therefore, he has the right for Quebec student's tuition for life, no matter where he lives. Getting free (or very low) Quebec tuition while paying none of Quebec taxes is the best revenge of all, is it not?

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  22. Yes complicated - I feel that you are a defeatist and that people like you are letting the other Canadians in this province down and would appreciate it if you kept those opinions to yourself. I fully realize that there is a movement underway to kick Quebec out of Canada and who's to blame those people? I don't, but feel that there are enough Canadians in this province that the ROC would take our side should we put up a fight and decide not to let them take away our land without a struggle. I refuse to let these bullies take away my property, bankrupt me and make my children and grandchildren less than they deserve to be! Why don't you start being a little more optimistic and agree that partition of this province is the only viable solution to this problem like the rest of the Canadians that reside here? Do you think Canada is going to turn over all this land without a struggle? I think not. They have an OBLIGATION TO PROTECT THEIR CITIZENS AND THE NATIVES THAT RESIDE ON THIS LAND whether they like it or not. It would not be easy but a necessity! Partition please and quickly everyone. Write to everyone you know and can think of. Let's do this together and have the referendums in the 75 electoral districts.

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    Replies
    1. You are living in a dream world cutie. Nobody is taking your property away nor will anyone do so. But the value of your property may plummet one day but it will be your choice whether you want to sell it. Even if Quebec seperates they are not going to force you off your property..this isnt Zimbabwe for goodness sake. But you and many anglos would likely hate living in a seperate so you would choose to leave and would have to take a big haircut on your property values.
      Some reality..its going to take many years before the winning conditions will be in place for seperation if ever. The more likely and painful scenario is just an accelerated decay of Quebec..economically because of mismanagement, corruption and the entitlement mentality. And a resumption of the anglo exodus..dropping property values..higher taxes..continued and possibly increased tensions between the french and the english. So if you cant handle that then you better move out soon..

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    2. PARTITION COMPLICATED - THE SOLUTION FOR ALL OF US - PEACEFUL GOODBYE - ALL LEGAL AND DEMOCRATIC - LET'S GO ALL

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    3. I get the feeling mr. complicated is one of those sensitive souls who says "Don't celebrate Christmas: it offends the Muslims", oblivious to the fact that Muslims couldn't care less. He is part of the problem. In fact, it's people like him who are a greater part of the problem than the likes of S.R., as they will take any position as having merit (Watch him justify Guantanamo Bay next), and have no capacity to discern that even a position with merit can be padded with bullshit (e.g. French language needs to be protected, therefore English must be suppressed).

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  23. Canadian flag removed from Quebec National Assembly

    http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canadian-flag-removed-from-quebec-national-assembly-1.959958

    Héhé!

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  24. PQ - Bunch of hypocrites pledging allegiance to the Queen! They should be in jail - outright lies and swearing on the Bible. Shows how deceitful they are - right to the core of their being. I wonder how that would go over in a court of law should I swear on the bible and the judge found out I was lying - isn't that something called perjury? Don't we go to jail for that? How come politicians can do this sort of thing with impunity? Peeves me off.

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    Replies
    1. DON'T FEED THE TROLL - DON'T FEED THE TROLL - DON'T FEED THE TROLL........

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    2. Cutie003,

      Yet you keep on doing exactly that.

      Delete
  25. Spencer the Spineless PorcupineMonday, September 17, 2012 at 6:19:00 PM EDT

    You know, I hear a lot of the PQ apologists touting that Anglos have nothing at all to complain about. Granted things aren't horrendous but they aren't phenomenal either. The experience I had with my English High School was that, now looking back, it was specifically designed to handicap graduates. Only two out of the five years did I actually have a French teacher who could actually speak French. The rest of the time we were being taught French by unilingual English substitutes who would often say "I'm learning this along with you guys."

    how the hell is someone expected to speak fluent French under these kinds of conditions? And of course all I would ever hear from Franco's after graduating was that it was my prerogative to learn the language. But I doubt I will ever be fully fluent or speak without an accent. So how is I am expected to be successful in a French society without being properly educated in the French language?

    I know others who have had similar experiences in different schools, but it feels as though there is a purpose to it. Like they are trying to keep our faces in the dirt and beat us before we are even out into the world.

    The second to last year of High School all the grade 10 and 11's were called into the auditorium and the principal very candidly told us to not bother graduating and to just drop out and go to trade school. What the fuck is that? Who tells a bunch of teens they shouldn't even bother graduating High School?

    And than I got to CEGEP were I was expected to be able to write papers and read text that was obviously above my level.

    I felt severely handicapped before I even got my foot through the door.

    A Partitioned Montreal, without the inane language politics would have the possibility of becoming not only an even bigger economic hub but an artistic and intellectual capital. The majority of Montreal voted Liberal anyway. So if Quebec can play at referendums with only 30% support than why not Montreal where 80% of Anglos/Ethnics live?



    ReplyDelete
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    1. Like I said before:

      Step 1 - Create a Bloc Montrealais (or something along the lines) and vote it in the Nat'l Assembly.
      Step 2 - More autonomy for Montreal.
      Step 3 - Partition.

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    2. So from your statement should I understand that you expect a civil war in the event of quebec's separation? I mean... both situations are very similar, aren't they?

      Delete
    3. Fort possible dans les deux cas si les anglos ne respectent pas les règles démocratiques.

      Delete
    4. Yes TS = if Canada is divisible so is Quebec. That's the long and the short of it and if there are problems with that the separatists are the ones that are being undemocratic. They say they pride themselves on being democratic so if we vote for partition, then there will be partition and the areas that want to stay in Canada will do so. That's the democratic way to do it. Civil war is what we're trying to avoid therefore we need partition of the province because that's what the people want!


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    5. S.R,
      would you agree to Montreal breaking away from Quebec if this would ensure an independent quebec? I mean, since you invoke democratic rules, you must accept Montreal choosing its own future, no? Moreover, First Nations have the right to self-determination, isn't that so?

      So, in short, would you agree to an independent quebec smaller than its current territory? You know... freedom has no price after afterall.

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    6. Tellement peu probable comme situation,qu'il est totalement inutile d'en discuter,de plus,
      aucune disposition dans la constitution canadienne ne prévois un tel scénario.

      Spéculation,spéculation...

      Delete
    7. SInce you were the one invoking democracy rules, I asked you a simple question and the answer is yes or no.

      I am asking you, as a separatist whose hope for his quebecois nation is an independent people, would you agree to an independent quebec smaller than its current territory? Yes or no? It's a simple question.

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    8. "Create a Bloc Montrealais"

      "FAIL" dès la première étape et vous avez oublié le référendum National en dernière étape.
      Montréal est la ville de tous les Québécois.

      Delete
    9. Answer #1 - why Montreal doesn't have the right to self-determination, if so chooses. We can all agree it is a very distinct society from the rest of quebec. Everything has a price. Some are bigger than others.

      Answer #2 - of course it is, however I don't see a Montrealer, anglo, allo, franco, separatist or federalist, given a choice, opting not to have a party that would defend his/her interests within qc. See... we took really good notes.

      Delete
    10. Well TS doesn't that tell you the state of democracy in this Province? Some democrats - they want to hold 49% of the population against their will - idiots - do they not think this would bring on civil war? Of course it would. Partition of this land is the only democratic way to proceed in this province! Let's go.

      Delete
    11. J'hais ça être devenue une minorité visible dans mon propre pays qui lui est rendu muliculturel pis rempli de babyboomers encore sur leur trip d'acide!

      Delete
    12. J'hais aussi qu'à Montréal le monde parlent en anglais pour se faire servir alors qu'il parlent très bien français quand il répondent à leur crisse de cellulaire!

      Delete
    13. Les Italiens sont tous des voleurs. Ils n'arrêtent de manger des nouilles que pour voler.

      Hé Hé! :-)

      Delete
    14. Pas autre chose à faire que de voler mon identité?

      Delete
    15. Les Italiens sont tous des voleurs. Ils n'arrêtent de manger des nouilles que pour voler.

      Gotta pay those french layabouts their wages, somehow... because we're nice like that.

      Delete
    16. La mafia payerait aussi le salaires de plusieurs ontariens selon les premiers constats de la commission Charbonneau,peut-être même plus qu'au Québec.

      Delete
    17. Don't start a confrontation you cannot possibly win. If we have to compare the contributions to the betterment of humankind from the Italians and from the Pure Laine, you're in for an embarrassing hiding.

      And, for the record: the percentage of Italians in Montreal having any relationship with the mafia is lower by some margin than the percentage of Pure Laines on benefits.

      Delete
  26. Hey Spencer - Check out the map as to where the voters are Liberal (Canadians) and you will see the Pontiac and the Outaouais in there also. Gatineau is the third largest city in Quebec and you can bet that we are Federalists (87% last referendum). We have no intention of staying in a separate Quebec = This is the National Capital Region, the Federal Government owns most of the land and we will vote to remain in Canada when that partition party comes along - you can bet your shirt on that - so it will be more than the island of Montreal. Those that want to move to a separate Quebec can do that following the partitioning of this Province and we will love to see the very small exodus of separatists that leave following that vote! We will then live, as we do now, French, English and Allophones alike without a problem.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Registre des armes à feu: Ottawa interjette appel

    http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/politique-canadienne/201209/17/01-4574920-registre-des-armes-a-feu-ottawa-interjette-appel.php

    Que de bonnes nouvelles pour les Québécois aujourd'hui :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Would Mr Bain's guns have been registered? I was under the impression that it was a "long gun" register, not a revolver one...

      Delete
    2. He had a CZ rifle, which is a crude, semi-automatic clone of the AK family. Remember he was a hunter with multiple weapons, so his were already registered. Tougher gun laws, in order to punish the only people with guns: hunters, on the account of one crazy person?

      Delete
  28. We need a partition party - one could come from a party that ran on a platform of signing the Canadian Constitution and develop from there. Canadians of all stripes would vote for a party that wants to sign the constitution and let life get back to normal after 40 years of strife. Unfortunately, it may take a total ruination of the economy for these morons to wise up but that's coming in the not to distant future the way we spend money in this province. NO MORE POWER TO QUEBEC FOR ANY REASON = SIGN THE PETITION ON THE PETITION SITE TO TAKE AWAY THE "NOTWITHSTANDING CLAUSE" IN THE CONSTITUTION.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Selon les premiers constats de la commission charbonneau,l'ontario serait encore plus corrompue que le Québec.

    Hâte de voir comment réagira le torchon Maclean's (et M.Sauga) à ce sujet...Pas si cleans que ça finalement.

    ReplyDelete
  30. FROM ED BROWN
    A good idea might be for all of us write our MPs and MPPs to suggest they monitor this site. If they see that people are asking for a partition party they mighr get on the bandwagon and create one. It couyld be ready for the spring election that we know is probably coming. Ed

    ReplyDelete
  31. Enough with the fucking Neville Chamberlains!!! Standing up for our civil liberties does not imply support or desire for a civil war!!. That's an ignorant suggestion..... If the ethnocentric Nationalists want to start employing violence to shut us up, then let them suffer the lawful consequences..... We can all be Ghandi's....

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Among the onions and carrots, the greengrocer puts up a poster that reads: "Workers of the World - Unite". He does it partly out of habit, partly because everyone else did it, partly out of fear of the consequences of not following the rules. But one day something in the greengrocer snaps and he stops putting up the slogans merely to ingratiate himself. He stops voting in elections he knows are a farce. He begins to say what he really thinks at political meetings. And he even finds the strength in himself to express solidarity with those whom his conscience commands him to support. In this revolt the greengrocer steps out living within the lie. He rejects the ritual and breaks the rules of the game. He discovers once more his suppressed identity and dignity. He gives his freedom a concrete significance. His revolt is an attempt to live within the truth". - Vaclav Havel, "The Power of the Powerless", 1978

      -------

      11 years later, the system in Czechoslovakia was no more.




      Delete
  32. FROM ED BROWN
    Cutie, When 'comlicated' says you are living in a dream world if you think they would lose your home, you wonder hat planet he's on. When he says just move out he forgets these are our homes that he's speaks of with utter contempt. A partition is the answer to finalize something that has dragged on for centuries and will go for many more if we sit back and moan about what nice fellows these seppies really are. I suspect that 'complicated' is a seppie troll disguising himself as a Canadian. I do not want to live in a separate Quebec. I AM A CANADIAN and I will remain so. Ed

    ReplyDelete
  33. Somewhat unrelated, but not worth making an entire post about on the editor's part.

    Marois put the Canadian flag at the national assembly back in the closet. I am so sad and insulted. :'(

    bit.ly/QVxnzU

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Typical of them - everytime they come into power they insult our flag. Should be a law just as there should be for the perjury they commit when they swear into office. Disgusting creatures.

      Delete
  34. Can anyone explain why Marios has a man or men at her side when speaking in public or to the press? It looks bizarre like a henchman

    ReplyDelete
  35. "It is to the racial instinct that politicians appeal in order to blind us when they are forced to choose between duty and power. It is the same instinct that is addressed when one wishes to force the people to give their confidence to certain men among them even when they have betrayed the national interest or dishonoured the position that they occupy through corruption, debauchery, and malversation of all sorts. In a word, it is by speculating on this instinct that one seeks to draw from us a guilty indulgence for the renegades and ramblers of our race. It is this type of patriotism that Dr. Johnson, if I am not mistaken, has so well characterized as the last refuge of the scoundrel."- Henri Bourassa, 1902

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" - Dr. Samuel Johnson

      Delete
  36. Very nice replies for the most part, folks. As an angryphone who lived in that cultural backwater for the better part of 40 years, I am encouraged by the growing pro-Canadian (if somewhat anti-Kaybec) sentiment. Except for the narrow-minded "complicated" (psssst, Canada could hold its OWN referendum to kick Kaybec out too!) and S R, who should NOT be responded to because he refuses to respect our language by using it in an English forum. Like most racist francophones, he demands French to be spoken REGARDLESS of numbers.

    There is no reason at all Kaybec cannot and should not be partitioned, and I would be the first to say that not only Montreal but the Outaouais including Gatineau (where many MANY federal buildings are) should stay in Canada. I would consider partitioning Montreal as well, perhaps a la 1950-89 Berlin, or post-1967 Jerusalem, if only because the MOST rabid violent anglophobic separatists DO inhabit the eastern part of that island and it would be easier to simply erect a blockade (St Denis street? The metro?) to keep both sides away from each other as much as possible. The CANADIAN army would enjoy at-home peacekeeping duties where they are unlikely to be attacked and lose their lives, and the separatists would do...whatever racist francophones do when push comes to shove.

    I disagree that "whining" is useless. I submit to you, that anger and hatred, when channelled correctly, are the ONLY things accounting for positive change in society. Anger at the way things are, hatred of injustice, of apartheid, of discrimination, are indeed the agents for changes in our world, both in the past and today. "Complicated" may think it's impossible, but 50 years ago, would envisioned a united peaceful Germany? Or the explosion of capitalism in China?

    Please keep up the good work, and feel free to join us on FB at https://www.facebook.com/groups/166545163406809/ or
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/131274083581138/
    or even https://www.facebook.com/groups/394044920638824/
    All English speaking Canadians are welcome. Yes, even you, "complicated"!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You don't need a Berlin Wall, all you need is a sign on every access road reading "You are entering an OQLF-Free zone" (or, rather, "You are entering the Canadian Province of Montreal/Vous entrez dans la province canadienne de Montréal"...)

      Delete
  37. FROM ED BROWN
    EDITOR, I think it's time we dump S.R. for good. His making fun of the Queen is a direct insult to us anglos. We don't deserve it and neither does she. When I think of the example of decency and good living
    that grand lady has set and compare to the piece of shit belittling her it raises hackles. Trolls like him and complicated are just there to insult or aggravate. Frankly, I don't need that. I can live without that and this blog if need be. Ed

    ReplyDelete
  38. Whether SR or complicated like it or not - Canada has an obligation and a duty to protect it's citizens from being hijacked by a separatist party in this province. That's why we have what's called a National Defence. So guys, like it or not,we stay in Canada and you go with the little piece of land that's left after the Federal Government holds it's referendum to decide what areas you can take with you. All democratic and legal in the eyes of the world so that you can make your own trade deals, border requirements, etc. SR can go suck rocks - Quebec does not have an army and therefore cannot be considered a legitimate threat to the ROC. I, like Ed, am CANADIAN AND INTEND TO STAY THAT WAY - WRITE YOUR MPs, THE PRIME MINISTER, ANYONE WHO'LL LISTEN. I have written to quite a few so far that I suggest we all do that. Start putting on the pressure to get a party going to end this blackmail, threatening, bigoted stalemate, that has gone on for far too long. PARTITION THIS DAMN PROVINCE AND LET THE BIGOTS GO!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Canada has an obligation and a duty to protect it's citizens from being hijacked by a separatist party in this province"

      C'est l'évidence même :) J'ai comme l'impression que Harper vous a abandonné.Non?

      Delete
  39. Ed = Don't let them get the best of you - that's exactly what they want. Ignore them and/or give them a shot once in awhile but we have to stick together to get rid of these bigots. If you leave the Blog e.g. they will just chuckle and say we can't take the pressure. Pee on them and keep on posting - pretend they don't exist which is what I try to do = they get on my nerves every now and then but I keep on trucking.

    ReplyDelete
  40. It would have been interesting to see the vote the night of the election if Legault had said he was running to sign the constitution instead of saying he wasn't there to sign it. I know he's a separatist but we need someone who will head up the Liberal party who says that if they get a majority next time, they will sign the constitution. Make it or break it = If they don't get a majority then the partition party comes to be and we get on with making the areas of Quebec free from Canada that want to go -75 federal electoral districts - 75 referendums - clear question, clear majority, all democratic and let's get on with it. Sending this Blog site to all the politicians I have written to including Mr. Harper and perhaps we can get something going. ALL OF YOU DO THE SAME. We have time to get this on the road before the next provincial election.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Corruption: perquisitions de l'UPAC au CUSM (McGill)

    http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/justice-et-faits-divers/201209/18/01-4575072-corruption-perquisitions-de-lupac-au-cusm.php

    Impossible...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ha ha...the commission is presently going on in English and Italian.

      Little S.R must be shitting a brick and preparing a complaint for the OQLF.

      Delete
    2. Les Italiens sont tous des voleurs. Ils n'arrêtent de manger des nouilles que pour voler.

      Hé Hé! :-)

      Delete
    3. Je ne vois aucun problème si le but est d'exterminer les rats.

      Delete
    4. Man, even when this sniveling little ass-clown claims to have his identity stolen, it's still the same old reprehensible crap that comes out.

      Editor, now that S.R has a Blogger profile, you can permanently ban him:

      http://videotutorials.bloggertricks.com/how-to-block-comments-on-certain-posts-in-blogger-blog/

      You've given him too many chances, he's never given anything of value to the conversation here, only baiting conflict.

      Delete
    5. Pas très brillant le plumé du chef...Tous peuvent accéder aux blogues avec un million d'identités différentes...Tiens pourquoi pas "peau rouge" comme pseudo? :D

      Delete
    6. Wow - I love opponents like these. You don't even need to attack them. They do a good enough job of taking themselves out.

      "Tous peuvent accéder aux blogues avec un million d'identités différentes"

      Yeah, doesn't surprise me a little troll like you has that kind of time. :-)

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsCAy9ErdKY

      Delete
    7. Sr is an excellent example to show the push and pull to folks outside of Quebec

      Delete
  42. Yes, it'll do the nut good to realize that his little world is even smaller than he thought! Sent the Blog site off to all the politicians I have on my mailing list and my own Liberal MNA. Please everyone, get busy - the faster we get on this the better chance we have of attracting someone who will either sign the constitution or get a party going that's willing to stand up for the partition of this hell hole before we become even more bankrupt that we are now!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If you check out the comments above, S.R appears to be having his little "identity crisis" again. Schizophrenia much?

      Delete
    2. Est-ce que c'est vous qui s'amusez à voler l'identité d'autrui?Vous avez dit crise d'identité Géronimo?Mets-en!

      Delete
  43. My problem with the partition idea is that it will just pour a lot more fuel on the fire. If I was living outside of Quebec then perhaps I wouldnt mind. If partition really started making the waves then at some point there would be a major pushback from the francophone community who would see it as another form of trickery for us to take Montreal and other parts of Quebec over. Its obviously not goign to go over well and hopefully at least you all can see that.
    So what would that really accomplish..it would increase tensions even more..there probably would be more francophones voting for the tougher PQ which means we would probably end up with a majority Marois government which probably would be a nightmare for anglophones. Our rights would be restricted more..more anglos would leave..the economy would weaken much further..taxes would rise..we would lose more services..property values would plummet. I dont want to be stuck in a place where things suddenly unravel out of control and I cant sell my house..the majority of the people here are increasingly angry with me and my community and the rest of Canada also is increasingly hostile towards Quebec.
    Its not going to be a picnic..it could get pretty nasty pretty quickly. When people start losing their jobs they look for someone to blame..that will happen in both the anglo and francophone side. In the end no side will really win and the worst case scenario is you start to have riots..civil war and total chaos. Lets not forget also that events around the world are not exactly encouraging right now..we have potential Iran/China/Russia versus USA/Israel (WW3 anyone) conflict brewing next year..the potential for the USA and European economies to collapse..possible significant inflation in food and energy next year due to the Federal reserve QE (printing money out of thin air) policy.
    We have been very lucky so far in Canada to have escaped the depression that has affected much of the western world over the past 4 years. We have our own housing bubble in Canada thats about to pop..look at recet stats in Vancouver and Toronto..by next year prices will be down everywhere.
    So the bottom line is there is enough potential trouble coming soon from outside our borders without adding any more issues to the table.

    A lot of anglophones are angry and have been so for many years. You might be surprised but I have been angry too for how our language and culture is constantly attacked in Quebec and how we or the rest of Canada are systematically blamed for all the problems occuring in this province. I see an entitlement mentality in Quebec that makes me sick..how the students ignore democracy and take their frustrations out on average people. How is it that 58 percent of Quebecers voted for the Libs and the CAQ yet apparently the students claim victory against the tuition fee increases. How can the public here just stand by and let these students violate the law..restrict rights to other students at the same time as paying the lowest tuition fees in North America. How can these students ask the highest taxed jurisdiction in North America for more money or for the highest indebted province to add more to the debt. Its frankly hard to believe these are events that are REALLY happening.
    The economy and the debt are going to become a major issue over the next few years.

    So in the context of all these other issues I see absolutely no way pouring more fuel on the linguistic debate fire is going to help us. It will backfire spectacularly and in the end we will all suffer even more. There is a time to fight and there is a time to be calm. We will accomplish more by appealing to francophones to elect a government who will manage Quebec in a more effective manner particularily with respect to finances..thats really what we need.

    ReplyDelete
  44. You keep making references to Francophones as separatists and there are many, especially in this area, that are Canadian. Please make sure when you say we will anger Francophones that you differentiate between the two. Canadians want to remain Canadian and I'm tired of tiptoeing around the separatists and letting them make all the rules for everyone. I'm positive all Canadians feel the same way. We have been held hostage by these bigots long enough but if they insist on taking some of the land, I say we let them go and leave the rest of us to get along in a new (or joint) bilingual province in which French Canadians will have a place along with the rest of us. By the way, try selling your house now that they are in power and see how much the value has dropped since the election. You will be shocked. It's time the federalists started making the rules as to how this should go and we have the winning conditions to do just that. We have to be ready to do the right thing come next election!

    ReplyDelete
  45. I never said that all francophones are seperatist. Thats obviously not true but there is a soft nationalist or soft federalist group that we need on our side to vote against the PQ. It was this group which prevented the PQ from getting a majority..we need them. By hammering the table on partition many of these francophones will get angry at some point and perceive it as a threat to take away Montreal. You must know that francophones would never allow Quebec to seperate without their largest city and could you really blame them?
    If Canada really did pursue a policy of partition at some future point there is no doubt that this would result in riots and civil war as there would be radical francophone groups violently against this. Plus the majority of francophones would also be against this.
    If you think property values have dropped a lot now then you aint seen nothing yet. If tensions keep rising they will drop way more..talk about partition and other provocative comments will ensure this. I guess it all comes down to how much chaos one can handle..I dont think many anglophones are prepared for the potential chaos that could happen if things get really out of hand. Obviously on this forum there are some real diehard fight to the death anglos but most anglophones are not in this category. Being forced to sell your house at a huge discount is not pleasant..living in a city where radical groups may start targeting anglos will be shocking..and worst case scenario a total civil war would be a nightmare that few people could imagine. Could it happen..sure it could..there are enough warning signs buzzing around that could create a real climate of hate. Once that hate is unleashed its tough to put it back in the bottle.
    Look at Israel and Palestine, Ireland and England, Basques in Spain and so on. These disputes can go on and on for generations..is anyone really a winner when things get to that point. We are living in an incredibly rich and peaceful country now but I can see the possibility of that deteriorating rapidly and it worries me a great deal. We need to be careful.


    ReplyDelete
  46. I still wonder what makes you think that soft nationalist vote would not go to staying in Canada and what makes you think that we won't have civil war if we don't partition the province? If the partition of the province is what the people want, and it's done democratically, what makes you think there will be civil war? Why can this not be done without violence? Each area has their say as to where they want to reside - Canada or a New Quebec? What's wrong with that?

    ReplyDelete
  47. The soft nationalist vote will move towards a harder line if the anglophones start talking vehemently about keeping Montreal or any area of southern Quebec. They will want someone tough representing their interests..the PQ will use this as way to stir the pot and turn them against us.

    Why would any rational francophone accept giving the biggest city in Quebec over to Canada? Do you seriously believe that they wont mind?? If they lose Montreal then they might as well stay in Canada..so this whole partition idea is not going to work unless Canada forces it militarily. But things will get very ugly before that happens. Do you want to live in a military conflict zone? Can you imagine the economic chaos this would bring.

    The partition idea suits us anglophones just fine..it would not suit most francophones at all.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It suits Francophones too, at least the ones who genuinely want independence, as opposed to ethnic cleansing and a naked land grab. And it suits the Francophones who want to stay Canadian and are not afraid of bilingualism. The only people that Partition won't suit are the assholes who just want to kick English butt. Just to let you know who you are pandering to.

      Delete
    2. By the way complicated, I don't think there are any more Francophones that can be stirred into more hatred by the PQ than has already taken place. If they are hardcore separatists, we will not be able to change their way of thinking and if they are Canadians they have already made their decision. The last election showed that and I think that the decision has now been made by the majority of the Quebec population as to where they want to reside. Few will change their minds any more.

      Delete
  48. I keep saying, there are lots of Francophones that are CANADIAN FIRST and want an end to this as much as the Anglophones do. If they have to chose Canada vs. a bankrupt new country, without the Canadian dollar backing them up, they are not retarded - they will do what is best for them which is remaining in Canada. You seem to feel as if French is all they think about and I don't agree. They want peace and harmony and stability as much as we do - Give them some credit!

    ReplyDelete
  49. Geez editor - do we now have to look at the Quebec Flag on SR's post? God, I hope not.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. C'est le drapeau de votre province,que vous le vouliez ou non.

      Delete
    2. By the way, why would the rational Canadians not want their largest city to stay with them in Canada?

      Delete
    3. "rational Canadians"?

      Selon vos propos du style "Alice au pays des merveilles" vous ne faites évidemment pas partie de ce groupe.Espérant que vous êtes une des rares exceptions chez les outaouains.

      Désolé!

      Delete
    4. @Cutie : I agree with you. He should't be allowed to have this kind of avatar.

      Delete
  50. Complicated,

    There is no need to get the soft nationalists or soft federalists onside. Partition is not about trickery its about being upfront and wanting to take parts of Quebec where minorities are the majority out of Quebec so that we can live in peace and prosper. There is no need to get anybody onside except ourselves. The pro bill 101 types would really fear a partition movement, they already try to dismiss it but get enraged when they see it as a viable option for the minorities.

    IF it did become a the will of the majority of any given area their will be a will to negotiate for mutual benefit.

    There also will be no civil war. Quebec couldn't even take care of the Oka crisis on its own.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Yes Jarry - For once the minorities and Canadians will be making the call on our future. It's about time instead of being pulled and pushed by the bullies that vote for the PQ and call themselves "democratic". Democracy is by the will of the people and if the will of the people in Montreal and other areas of Quebec want to remain in Canada, then it is the will of the people, by the people and for the people! So be it. And stop talking about civil war if things are done democratically - the hard core separatists will have what they want - their own country and enough room to expand (to whom I don't know) but the land we have paid for and live on will remain under our control following a vote to decide who belongs where. Nothing wrong with that at all. Let's get on with the logical conclusion to this mess of a political situation.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Yes Jarry - Let's get on with the democratic partition of this province. The will of the people, by the people and for the people. No civil war - no need to fight after a clear question, clear majority vote in each of the 75 Federal electoral districts and the New Quebec has the land they vote to keep and we have the land we vote to keep - fair is fair in love and war! Let's get rid of the headache once and for all and the SRs can go their own way and we ours.

    ReplyDelete
  53. Sorry - thought the first one wasn't published -

    ReplyDelete
  54. Pourquoi vous intéressez-vous tant à Montréal cutie?Ottawa est beaucoup plus appropriée pour les personnes telles que vous.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ottawa and Montreal are very much alike. They belong in the same province: neither Quebec, nor Ontario. Montreal is Ottawa for those who don't want Government jobs.

      Delete
    2. Effectivement ottattawawa est une ville dynamiquement culturelle...Issshh

      Delete
    3. You`ve never been there you little twit, so what the fuck are you even talking about?

      Delete
    4. Non et pas vraiment intéressé d'y aller,pas une très bonne réputation chez les gens cultivés.Une ville endormante pour les 50+ y parait.Pas de bon resto,pas de bar ou de café intéressant mais plusieurs Tim Hortons et des fonctionnaires sans intérêt,aucun...Non merci.

      Delete
    5. Damn S.R - you really are a worthless, despicable piece of shit after all.

      Cutie, count me in for partition - anything to keep afterbirth like S.R inside a "free" Quebec while the eastern portion of the former Quebec stays with us.

      Outaouais & Montreal libre!

      Delete
    6. Well, since all the intelligent and interesting people are moving to Ottawa, leaving Montreal to the likes of S.R., the Crips and the Bloods, it stands to reason that the "cultural dynamism" of Montreal is becoming more and more of a distant memory... but there is a solution: take the North Shore, Quebec City and the Townships and make your own country, and we'll leave you well alone.

      Delete
  55. I admire your aspirations but in the real world it will not work out so nicely. I would love to see Montreal and Gatineau/Eastern townships remain a part of Canada. However I know it will provoke violence with french radical groups..they will fight to the death to keep Montreal and the Quebec territory intact. I think some francophones would back the partition idea but most would not.

    The PQ will use the partition as another reason on how the minorities are trying to steal Montreal away for ourselves. There will be an economic crisis because of all the uncertainty..hence unemployment will surge..when people lose their livelihood then the government can really manipulate them. It would mainly francophones who would be hurt as many of them will choose to remain here and hence in an economically depressed state. The rhetoric of the PQ will convince many of them that the anglos and the rest of Canada are to blame for the economic woes here and even worse want to take the largest city away from Quebec. I can just see it now..this type of movement will actually strengthen the PQ as they will have ammunition to create more fear in a francophone population that will be reeling from job losses..attacks from the rest of Canada and a minority movement that wants to break up Quebec.

    There are very few examples of territorial disputes that dont end in blood shed and economic malaise..sometimes ethnic cleansing. Perhaps I am being somewhat dramatic here but things could get out of hand quite quickly. The PQ wants to divide the francophone and anglophone communities..they want to demonize Canada..thats how they get votes..the partition idea would be welcome news for their ambitions.

    And just to get to the partition state we would need another referendum and Quebec actually voting to seperate. I dont see it happening for many years if ever..so the reality right now is lets try to elect another government in power in the next election. Anglophones should be actively fighting for either a CAQ or Liberal win in the next election..thats what will help us all. Partition is a nice pipe dream on paper that has little chance of ever being realized and most likely the promotion of it will be just more fuel for the PQ..

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. complicated,

      the issue here is not if all the francophones will support the idea of partition. Of course they won't. The way I see it happening is that when the partition is officially discussed and the borders of this new political and geographical 'entity' are put forward, if 50%+1 of the inhabitants of said territory will vote in favour of secession, then it will secede.

      Why would we need the vote of someone from Sept-Iles? Do S.R and the likes need the vote of someone from, say, Athabasca to secede from Canada?

      Delete
    2. "However I know it will provoke violence with french radical groups..they will fight to the death to keep Montreal and the Quebec territory intact."

      Not quite. From my experience, these so called "hardcore" seppies are actually cowards. Just take a look S.R for instance. You think that little spammer would ever "rise up" for the cause. No chance in hell.

      I remember election night on this blog. Something like 3 or 4 federalists called him on and he said no to all.

      I can't remember having ever met a separatist with true guts. They'll talk a good game, but the second they see you get enraged, they beg you to calm down.

      If the hardcores do act up, expect Ottawa to take the same stance Madrid has with Basque seppies. They'll parlay every attack into a winning hand.

      Looking forward to it.

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    3. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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    4. No, actually, it kinda smells like someone left the soup they've spent the last 40 years working on boil over:

      http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-47pqJwRqFWE/UEgXOyvgiEI/AAAAAAAAGrM/5bq2cZ3Xzu0/s1600/image.jpg

      Hehehe!

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    5. Branchez-vous!Bain est un détraqué ou un fier représentant de la communauté anglo?
      Pourriez-vous nous éclairer?Moi personnellement je trouve qu'il a l'air d'un débile mais c'est peut-être un anglo qui a des origines outaouaines...

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  56. Boy, you sure are a pessimist. What good would the CAQ do us? Please.......he's still a separatist. Why not push, while we have the chance, for a Liberal leader who will end this and offer to sign the constitution? What would be wrong with that if you don't want partition? All we keep doing is delaying the inevitable and meanwhile we keep losing our voting public because people like you keep saying this will go on forever and ever! Enough's enough.

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    1. Cutie, you've wasted enough energy on Complicated.

      He's a separatist and is trying to dissuade you from another angle. Just let him go like you did S.R.

      Both of those guys are nothing more than a waste of time and a distraction.

      As for the Liberals, I'm very happy to see that Philippe Couillard appears to be the heir apparent. When he was still in office, I always thought he would make the perfect replacement for Charest and was very upset to see him go...giving us the impression we had no viable options after Jean quit.

      But here he is and I'm sure peeps like S.R and hating the situation big time. They know a player of Couillard's caliber would wipe the floors with Marois...and Legault too.

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    2. Yes Germino - I'm not going to be bothered with complicated anymore because, like you, I believe he is a separatist and playing with the contributors. If he's not a separatist, then we don't need anyone anymore that does not believe that we can, as a society, change the playing field on these separatists. It's our turn at bat, while things are really bad and getting worse, to get out of this province and start building within Canada again. We have to partition in the worst way and get on the road to health and wealth.

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  57. Spencer the Spineless PorcupineTuesday, September 18, 2012 at 4:12:00 PM EDT

    It always seemed hypocritical to me that separatists would claim to believe in democracy and want to separate via a vote but if certain areas within Quebec wanted to vote to stay in Canada than god forbid, no they can't do that! If the Majority of these areas voted yes to being partitioned and the PQ tried to overrule it, it would paint them very plainly as hypocrites.

    It seems odd, that Separatists living in here can't think of the frustration they feel living as a minority in an English country, and apply that to the frustration of Anglos living in a French society. You would think, of all people, the separatists would understand how we feel the most.

    I guess not.

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    1. I'm not sure that "parts" of Quebec have enough power to separate themselves from the rest of the province.

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    2. Which is why a new party is needed. Just the island of Montreal has roughly 20% of quebec's population.

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  58. You know why the CAQ would be a better choice. Because the pressing problems in Quebec right now as the crushing taxes we pay and the massive debt we have. That should be priority number 1..the linguistic tensions are really not critical at this point.
    The Liberals have done nothing to tackle the debt and little to improve the tax situtation. They have done nothing to tackle the incredible waste in the government..the abuse powers of unions. These are the real issues that we need to deal with now.
    The CAQ is the only party who has serious plans to tackle these issues. The Liberals will maintain the status quo which means a continues descent towards Greece status..the PQ will accelerate this. The CAQ has promised no referendums for 10 years..I believe them. I see it as a sign of strength that Legault has left the seperatist movement..he knows that Quebec cant stand on its own feet..he is a businessman..he can count. This is the type of person we need.
    All this talk about partition and language is all fluff distracting us from the real issues..the debt, taxes and the economy.

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  59. I think you are very gullible and I don't believe Legault for one minute. If the constitution was signed and the instability ended in this province, no changes to Bill 101, and maybe just maybe we would see a turn around in our economy. The economy will not improve under anyone except the liberals because they are the only ones who offer any stability in this province. Besides, the PQ are the ones in bed with the unions and the students and they all believe the PQ can support the whole population without any growth. THAT is the problem and the language is part of it. The socialist mentality in this province is unbelievable and the separatist government encourages the attitude. Everyone wants something for nothing and don't want to work. The PQ lets them believe it and won't tell them the truth because then what would they run their platform on besides hate.

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  60. This blind support for the Liberals is quite pathetic. The Liberals have done next to nothing to clean up government waste and mismanagement..they arguably were one of the most corrupt governments ever. Part of the problem is the anglo communities blind support for them..no matter what they do.
    I say give the CAQ a chance..things are critical in Quebec now..we need real change and they are the only party talking about shaking things up. This constant knocking of Legault because he was once in the PQ is tiring..politicians change parties all the time. Raymond Bachand was in the PQ and nobody talks about that..Charest was a PC.
    Legault is far from perfect but he is the only one who seems to be willing to try and change things in this province. He is also more right leaning which Quebec desperately needs..we need someone with real life business experience like Legault instead of career bureaucrats like Charest.

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  61. That's why we each have a vote - we will never see eye to eye and I will continue to vote for a party that represents Canada in Quebec - the rest can jump in the lake. Partition anyone?

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    1. and by the way, there is a big difference in jumping parties - a PC to a liberal is a little hard to understand but from a separatist to a Canadian is not even believable especially when he qualifies it by saying "no referendum for 10 years" but if I improve the economy, it will be before 10 years you can be sure of that.

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  62. @complicated,

    They won't fight to the death or anything else. Worst they can do is head off the Cuba on a vacation package and never come back. They don't have the belief in their movement to actually risk their lives. They are use to meek minorities getting bullied around and not being confrontational. When it comes to open warfare, there will be none.

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    1. " They don't have the belief in their movement to actually risk their lives"

      They don't. Comfort and enjoyment of the life's blessings is the only thing that counts for them. Quebec Inc was set up for this purpose - politically, a form of a colony set up for for colonizers (my way or the highway, I'm a maitre here) who ironically seem culturally colonized (the paradox of QC).

      Quebeckers would support QC's "independence", but only on one condition - that their standard of living doesn't register the slightest dip. Look at the 1980 and 1995 questions. Canada this, Canada that. Economic partnership this, economic partnership that. One was left wondering if the referendum was on leaving Canada or joining it.

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    2. Great comment Adski. They don‘t even have the strength to take the hit and stay in Montreal. Instead they flee to the cheaper 450 and then cry that Montreal is anglicizing. I would imagine they would make a lot of threats and posture a bit but would ultimately back down.

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  63. Complicated

    More delusions. The reason Quebec is in such debt is because its linguistic laws are a ball and chain on the minorities economic progress. If minorities are paying 40% of the taxes in Quebec despite this ball and chain imagine what they can contribute if there was no bill 101.

    As for the liberals, better a corrupt party that has allowed some rights for the minorities then other parties like PQ or PQ light aka CAQ. In the end only a partition party to get the ball and chain off the minorities rights can resolve the issue.

    The partitioned areas of Quebec would grow rapidly. If the rest of Quebec is still in Canada after that point, I think the partitioned areas wouldn't mind paying into the equalization pot for even what is leftover of Quebec if thats the price to be paid for freedom and economic prosperity.

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  64. Yes Mr. Dion: We want the Canadian Flag in the red chamber in Quebec City - thank you for speaking up for us!

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  65. McGuinty veut voir les preuves de l'infiltration de la mafia dans l'économie (ontarienne)

    http://tinyurl.com/8fa44ry

    Hoho!

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  66. This young french candian gal decided to cover an English song. She now has 11.4 millions views. English is the road to success. If she had covered Eric Lepoint or Garo, she wouldn't have topped 100 views.

    English = views and popularity

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    1. McDonald vend 150 hamburger / seconde...Mais ça reste de la merde,un peu comme la vidéo que je viens de regarder (les 10 premières secondes).Vraiment de la grosse merde commerciale,autant du point de vue musicale que du coté des paroles.Merci tout de même pour l'effort.

      En passant c'est Éric Lapointe et Garou (pas un fan non plus)

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  67. The problem S.R is that, when you look at the big picture, no one understood what you've just wrote. By signing in English, this young woman was able to showcase her talent to the whole world. So now has close to 12 millions views, almost two times the population of Quebec.

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    1. Certain vidéo de chiens et de chats en ont autant...Ils miaulent dans quelle langue?
      Mark,Mark,pauvre petit Mark...Soyez un peu plus critique s.v.p

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  68. Typical attitudes here about the CAQ and Legault. You people have absolutely ZERO trust in anyone who had anything to do with the PQ. Even if it means supporting a party that takes the anglos totally for granted..a party that did nothing for the anglos..a party that hired more language police..a party that talked about strengthening Bill 101..a party that was likely even more corrupt than the PQ. You guys are blinded by your hatred so much that you would continue to support a party that could care less about you.

    I understand why Legault said no referendum for 10 years. He is admitting that Quebec economically is in no shape to stand on its own two feet. We can all agree on that. If he gets elected and actually brings around the changes needed to make this a much more efficient run government..such as eliminating bureaucratic waste, cutting taxes on the middle class, tackling the unions, taking on corruption. He is the only party seriously talking about the real issues..sure he might fail but he is willing to try. We need to quickly get finances under control in this province..something the Liberals did not do even during one of the better economic periods. And we can thanks the Liberals for adding another 2 percent to the sales tax again. And we are about to discover all the sleazy details of how the Liberals worked with the mafia.

    Worst of all what a total coward Charest was for calling an election 2 weeks before the Charbonneau commission started. Thats about one of the most cynical and calculating acts I have ever seen from a desperate politician. He was obviously terrified of what would come out of that commission. How you could all support such an immoral and gutless person is beyond me.

    Our debt problems in this province are not directly because of language issues. There is a certain entitlement mentality prevalent in this province and probably more pronounced within the francophone population. Essentially the belief is that we need the government to take care of us - the government is there to provide us with good jobs that pay well with good benefits, the government is there to give us free healthcare and very cheap education and cheap daycare and free medication and so on and so on. The unions have been allowed to become way too powerful also and government never stands up to them..so thet dictate what the cost of everything is which results in Quebecers paying higher costs for all sorts of things such as highway and bridge repair, construction in general. And of course we have the organized criminal element which is intrinsically involved. The previous PQ and Liberal governments have never had the guts to take on these forces. I believe the CAQ is willing too but I suspect they will find it more challenging than they think but the effort and willingness is there.

    Another point which needs to be addressed is our unfair electoral system. The first past the post system is horribly unfair..its an antiquated feature from the old British parliamentarean system that just doesnt work. It does produce results which reflect the true wishes of the electorate..it encourages people not to vote. For example in the last election the PQ won about 32 percent of the vote, the Liberals about 31 percent and the CAQ about 27 percent. If we look at those numbers the PQ should have won 40 seats, the Liberals 39 seats and the CAQ 34 seats. This is in a system where each vote is equal. In our current system each vote is not equal. There are some ridings with much higher populations than others. There are some races where a vote for the CAQ is worth much more than in another riding. For example all the people on the west island who voted CAQ have absolutely nothing to show for their vote...those votes should still count towards something. Instead the overwhelming Liberal vote makes the CAQ votes worthless. If we had a fair system in place the PQ would never win a majority government again and would barely have won this election.

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    1. Really, how many clichés do you have to trot out before you get tired of the sound of your own voice? Everybody's a scumbag except your mate (although I notice you haven't spent much time talking about the extensive ties of the PQ with the mafia)! Nothing will ever happen except your pet theory! The electoral system is unfair, otherwise everything would be alright (except that the PQ would still be the largest party, the Liberals still second and the CAQ still third).

      The reality is that there was an unpleasant situation in place, with the Francophones being barely tolerated in the land where they were born. Violence brought about change, for a brief time fair (bilingualism), and now patently unfair (French unilingualism, when 20% of the population is neither French nor Francophone - and it would have been more without Bill 101). And an unfair conditions brings its friend violence with her. Let us not forget that French oppression of Western Germany between the wars gave us the rise of the Nazis. The PQ better defuse this mine or, like their continental cousins, it will blow in their face. For now, people like me can suggest peaceful options (I'm not sure what you are suggesting). At some point, if nothing happens, people like the one you censored further up in this thread, might come up with something more drastic if peaceful solutions don't work. C'est la vie: Martin Luther King got the accolades, but Malcolm X got the job done.

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    2. J'ai comme l'impression que c'est la communauté anglo de Montréal qui est tolérée (car relativement calme) pour l'instant.
      Une impression comme ça...

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    3. It's not like you haven't been wrong before...

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  69. If we had a fair electoral system then the PQ would be even more powerless right now with a bare bone minority government. But the real point is that it would reflect the true wishes of everyone. All voices..hence votes..should count equally. Look at the 1994 and 1998 elections..in the 1998 election the Liberals had 43.5 percent of the vote versus 42.8 for the PQ and the PQ won a majority..how perverse is that. 1994 elections the PQ ans Liberals had the same percentage of the vote and another PQ victory..its totally perverse to have a government win when they dont even get the majority of the votes.
    If people think violence is the only way then you may get what you wish for but somehow I dont think most of you are truly prepared for it. Most people here have no clue what its like to live in a war zone or a police state..we should do all that we can to avoid that. The reality is that anglophones still are treated quite well overall..we still have a lot of institutions serving us in out language. Yes there are threats by the PQ to put more restrictions but the PQ only has a minority government. Lets keep our cool and focus our energy on making sure the PQ lose the next election..bigoted and inflammatory statements from the anglo community will not help.

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    1. En fait vous représentez la communauté la mieux traitée au canada et peut-être même au monde.

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  70. SR - Be careful what you say. I lived in Calgary in which about 4 percent of the population is francophone. There were two francophone schools in that city. When I say francophone I mean that these schools were for francophone parents..100 percent of the curriculum was in french. One of the schools was huge with a francophone cultural centre attached to it. These schools were state of the art. There was a french bookstore downtown with signs in french. There were many french immersion programs in schools all across the city. There was a university program in french for teachers to teach french. Calgary is about as english a city as you will find in Canada and there was more effort to have french services than there is here in Montreal for the much larger english population.

    Edmonton also has a french university campus as does Winnipeg. Again a very small number of francophones live in this city.
    So dont give me your bs about us being the best treated minorities in Canada..I totally disagree with that. Things are bearable now in Montreal but they could be a lot better. Oh and the so called english schools here in Montreal are really at best 50/50 french and english.

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  71. FROM ED BROWN
    "You people have absolutely no trust in anybody that had anything to do with the PQ." Well duh!
    I think complicated finally is catching on.
    Interesting thoughts; On the news this morning a pipe burst on the south shore and flooded homes. They can't understand why because the pipe is only thirty years old. The area was built just a few years after 1976 so how could the work be shoddy. Gee, that's a tough one.
    I was in a cab yesterday stopped at a light on Notre Dame. Sitting under the Jaques Cartier bridge. I couldn't help admiring the solid base of this great structure, not a crack or a flaw anywhere that I could see. O, for the days when english men knew how to build.
    As we sat at the light a bedraggled looking character held out a coffee cup and asked for donations in french. He seemed to be having trouble so the driver asked him if he'd prefer to speak english.
    His answer was, "Non , no englis,Je parle pas ce merde." He came to me at the back windoe wnd asked for money in french. I answered, "Mais, je comprends pas. Je sais pas le francais, pas de tout. C'est merde. He stood totally bewildered staring at the tooney in my hand. As we drove off, I slipped the tooney back in my pocket. I never refuse a request for help in any language except rude seppie. Ed

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  72. Ed Brown - Do you really think there were no french workers who built the Jacques Cartier bridge? It might have been designed by the english but not sure it was built by them. Your pathetic story about a homeless man - what does that have to do with anything really?

    Its anglos like you that are just here to pour more gas on the fire..all you can offer are more attacks on the french and accolades for the english. No responsibility from you or any other anglos of your generation. In your narrow view its only the francophones fault.

    As I said before, the old anglos and the PQ seperatists are equals in the blame for the mess we are all in today here in Quebec.

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  73. 1/3 of Anglophones living in a province with a huge French majority cannot speak the French language. That's pretty pathetic. In Ontario, only 12% of Francophones are not bilingual and in New Brunswick, only 20% of Francophones are not bilingual. Elsewhere in English Canada, this number falls to under 10%. If you're too lazy to learn the majority language of Quebec, the Pauline Marois of this world have every reason to point and laugh.

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  74. FROM ED BROWN
    I don't know why I bother, sometimes I think I'm talking to children. COWBOY The last time I read about language in the newspaper, they said 80 of anglos in Quebec now speak french. Don't take your figures from Complicated he loves to twist things aginst the anglos. The reason so many french in Ontario and N.B. are bilingual is because they came from Quebec and learned english like the english here did with french. Ontario 78% french are bilingual. using your figures) N.B. 80% french are bilingual. Quebec 80%
    english are bilingual. So what the hell are ya yappin' about.
    Complicated, I'll try to make this simple so even you can understand it. The bridge was built by Dominion Engineering which had a world wide reputation. The workers were Indians from Khanawake or
    Caughnawaughna as it was called back then. It's not the workers that make things last . It's the architects and engineers. I assure you ther were no french designers or engineers on this which is why it's still standing. Ed

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