The conventional wisdom in the mainstream press is that the new PQ minority government of Pauline Marois will be hamstrung and unable to bring forward much of the controversial new programs that the party enunciated throughout the election campaign.We've read countless articles in Quebec and national newspapers assuring us that Ottawa's best course of action is to ignore Marois, since there is no mandate for a referendum or any support for a broad attack on federalism, for that matter.
"Now, once again, we're to be treated to the tedious, deliberate provocations, always delivered in a tone of tragic victimization, that have made Quebec separatists by far our most annoying countrymen (and women) since, oh, 1976.As is often my case, I remain at odds with the conventional wisdom, it seems to me that the advice to ignore Marois is not only dangerous but gratuitous. Easy for them to say...
And yet, what if it doesn't matter?
What if nobody came or even paid much attention?" Michael Den Tandt, Postmedia Newsink
"And that’s precisely why the emerging Conservative and New Democratic approach to provocations by Marois and her cohort of revolutionaries – that is, benign, serene indifference – is the correct one." Link
Perhaps all that concerns Ottawa and the RoC is the reopening of the sovereignty or national unity debate, something that obviously they don't want to see happen.
But with that danger clearly of no concern, the ROC can safely take Quebec politics off the national stage and whether Madame Marois runs riot over the Quebec economy and whether she imposes more and more restrictions on the Anglo and Ethnic minority is clearly of no import to anybody but ourselves.
I guess there's nothing unexpected or unfair in that, but taking disingenuous advice from those who have no dog in the fight, is the height of folly.
Marois and the PQ remain dangerous, a clear and present danger to our community, even if nobody in Canada seems to care.
While newspapers like the Toronto Sun can write the nastiest and snarkiest articles that dismiss Marois and her government, we Quebecers, especially Anglos and ethnics, can't really afford the luxury of benign indifference,
"It would be safe to conclude that Quebec has a delusional woman as its new premier, who believes she can wield a power that doesn't exist.Perhaps it is true, just as the newspaper crows, that the PQ is doomed, but we here in Quebec are along for the disastrous ride, something that those in the RoC who wish separatists ill fortune, don't understand or care.
Pauline Marois, unlike in The Emperor's New Clothes, is naked as a jaybird except to those equally unfit to run a province so dependent upon the billions in transfer payments that come from federalism.
To them, to all those aging Pequistes and student-movement crybabies, she is dressed to the nines, the belle of the ball, and ready to take on Ottawa with her eyes-wide-shut view of separatism.
If this is the best the Parti Quebecois can muster, it is doomed." PQ's gong show has just begun
And so the question to consider, is what sort of damage can Pauline inflict, even in her minority position and readers I am sad to report that the answer is quite a lot.
Obviously the PQ government cannot meet Parliament with an aggressive legislative agenda that would leave the opposition no choice but to defeat the government, damn the consequences. But that being said, there's a lot the PQ can do without ever having to face the National Assembly.
One of the first things that the PQ announced was that is was cancelling the tuition hikes, as well as certain aspects to the controversial Bill 78, the law that put constraints on demonstrations.
All this is to be done by way of 'Decrees' (orders in council) or cabinet-ordained modifications of existing laws, something that defies our democracy, when used abusively.
These 'decrees' are supposed to be minor, non-controversial, re-interpretations or modifications to existing laws, but using them to make fundamental changes in legislation duly passed by the National Assembly, is an attack on our democracy.
Are we back to the days where the King or Queen had the power to accept or reject laws passed by the duly-elected representatives of the people?
If these decrees can be used in such a cavalier manner, does it mean that we are now to be governed by fiat?
This dangerous and undemocratic vehicle, whereby duly passed laws are hacked and butchered by the Premier and her cabinet at will, means that Parliament (National Assembly) is no longer the ultimate authority in our province, something all democrats should oppose.
If Premier Marois decides to use these decrees on a wholesale level, we can expect some of the PQ election promises to pass into law without the consent of the National Assembly.
These election promises, like the imposition of Bill 101 on companies having between eleven and fifty employees and/or the application of eligibility rules for English education in cegeps, can actually be imposed on us without the consent of the National Assembly!
And so the PQ can play footsie with the law, as long as it is not too blatant and as long as the National Assembly allows them to do so.
Already we are hearing that the $200 a head health tax is too be abolished, replaced by a retroactive increase in taxes on the rich. All this through the power of decree!
Aside from that frightening scenario, the PQ government can also avail themselves of simple administrative changes that can also have devastating and lasting effects on our community.
For example, the PQ can easily increase the number of inspectors in the OQLF and set them on a more aggressive campaign of enforcement, no permission needed!
The government can also impose new changes pertaining to English services at its whim, just by giving instruction to the ministries. It doesn't take an act of the National Assembly, or even a decree to effect these changes.
With the Liberals tied up in a leadership campaign that will last until the beginning of next year and thus loath to bring down the government in the interim, it may just give the PQ a narrow window this Fall to try and pass some of its more controversial legislation.
The question remains as to whether Madame Marois will try to do so, as such a plan would carry an element of risk. Let us not forget Prime Minister Joe Clark's folly, a similar failed gambit in 1979 that saw his minority Conservative government taken down after just seven months in office.
Most likely she will not risk her position, she has worked too hard and waited too long to become Premier to roll the dice.
But while Pauline may be somewhat handicapped in Parliament, it doesn't mean that she cannot or will not wreak separatist havoc upon us.
Make no mistake, we are in for a very rough ride and although no broad, direct and frontal attack is on the horizon, we can surely be just as dead from an attack of a thousand cuts.
She has already shown us just how petty she can be, by removing the Canadian flag from the National Assembly for the swearing in ceremony and I expect her and her ministers to continue the petty minded persecution of anything Anglo or Canadian.
Hold on tight, it's about to get very uncomfortable and nasty.
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NOTE TO READERS
I've been asked to tighten up the comments section and I've heard what you have to say.Gratuitous insults against other commenters will no longer be tolerated and the rule applies to everyone, not just S.R.
Secondly, I'd like to see readers address the the content of the blog piece of the day.
While all opinions are welcome and it is impossible not to run off on a tangent, it would be interesting if we could focus somewhat on the topic of the today.
Again, it is just a suggestion, no comments will be removed if they are appropriate and follow the rules as listed in the green bar at the top of the page.
Today's question:
How will A&E's (Anglos & Ethnics) fare under Marois and what can we expect?
Are we going to get clobbered or is she going to be respectful?
It's your turn.
Oh, come on, Editor, it's really a no-brainer. Her pettiness over the flag is just the tip of the iceberg, and you can be sure she is going to goad Canada into fights anywhere and everywhere she could, or die trying.
ReplyDeleteDeath by a thousand cuts will be her best alternative.
Sadly, you're trying to get the minorities to brace yourselves, but as I've stated many, many times on this blog, you have nobody to blame but yourselves. I've mentioned Howard Galganov's attempts to rally the troops in the mid-to-late 1990s only to be met with resistance by those who should have been his allies. Galganov tried exceedingly hard, failed and moved like another 300,000 of us Anglo and Allophones since the 1970s.
For those who have stayed, but chose not to fight, your goose may be cooked now, or at least will be for sometime to come. Hold on tight!
1) I think her appointment of Mr. Lisée pretty much heralds the kind of attention that Anglophones should expect from Ms. Marois.
ReplyDelete2) I very, very strongly agree with Mr. Sauga on this: no one is really all that interested. Between Anglophones who buy into the "French is in danger" lie, those who just don't want to ruffle feathers and those that don't care, it's over.
I don't know if it's Canadian niceness or what (Will Ferguson writes that Canada officially became "nice" the day after the first referendum when Levesque wasn't assassinated.) I have personally had to convince a number of Montreal Anglos that they should care about the egregious infringement of their rights in Quebec. This would include my PhD-holding spouse (a Montreal Italian who uses English 95% of the time) who, when we first met, actually used phrases like "Westmount Rhodesian."
I can't tell you how many times I've heard Galganov referred to as "a clown" by Anglo-Montrealers, but, I have to say, when I read his writings, they made perfect sense to me.
When the Canadian Supreme Court ruled Bill 104 and then suspended their own ruling so that Quebec could "rejigger" the law, I was floored. By contrast, the American Supreme Court does not suspend their own rulings. Ever. And why would they? They are the final line of defense against government infringement on individual rights. In the 1960s, the Army was sent to the South to ensure that the Supreme Court's rulings would be obeyed.
But in Canada? Sheesh. When not even your own Supreme Court is interested in protecting your civil rights, you know it's "game over."
What to expect from Quebec? More ridiculousness, it's Quebec's main product.
Truth John! The federal government is more than willing to sell us up the river for political expediency and the media blackout in the roc over what really goes on in Quebec has all but convinced Canada that there are only Francophones in this province. We have to be seen and heard, no matter the means. Disobedience to 101 is a must, at every opportunity. If Francophones can tag synagogues with swastikas, then we can do the same about their cherished 101. If they complain that Montreal is anglicized and that they get no service in French, then let's make it the reality. Speak your language all the time. It's not a matter of disrespect toward the majority, but a matter of your own self respect.
DeleteAll the federal government has ever wanted to do is sweep us under the rug. Fight back against the oppression and become a thorn in the side of the federal government and the bigots.
The next time there's an anti 101 rally and the bigots show up in combat fatigues and mag lights the size of baseball bats, while the cops pretend it's not happening or threatening, we should make sure we have our own group equally willing and ready for the face off. Until that happens, we will remain brow beaten and ineffective.
The court system in Canada has proved itself a shill instrument to political will and will do nothing for us. Canada has to become aware of what exactly it's paying for in this province - small ayatollahs who take their money to wage a war of racist propaganda against them and permanently shutting the door to any Canadian wishing to live in the province they pay for. If we're going to disappear as a community, then don't let it be without a fight. No more school closures with no reaction. No more fines for speaking a language with no reaction. No more beatings for speaking English without a reaction. If this doesn't happen, Anglo and Ethnic Quebecers are deserving of their fate as a footnote to Canadian history nobody will ever care to read about.
But Ethnic, the problem is Hugo Shebbeare holds anti-Bill 101 demonstrations on a periodic basis. Have YOU attended them? Considering Hugo only attracts a dozen or so protesters, chances are you're not among the "dirty dozen". That's about all the protesters who show up - a dozen or so each time. That's completely insufficient!
DeleteThis has been going on for almost 40 years! Big talk no action! The English speaking community is upset, but does nothing about it. Think Galganov. He sacrificed a lot to do that radio show he had back in the late 90s. He was reluctant to do the morning radio show in CIQC, but he finally agreed where he not only tried to rally the troops, he promoted and put on fundraisers as well. He raised money for Sun Youth and women's shelters. Despite all that, his biggest detractors were the likes of the late Gord Sinclair on CJAD, a competitor. The Francophones in media regularly labeled him the «anglo juif». Imagine labeling the «pur laine» crowd "The Franco Catholics". They'd be called every racist innuendo in the book! ...French ones, of course!
I have Sauga. I received death threats, I was followed, my picture was taken and tagged all while the cops lazed around pretending it wasn't happening. Were you there???? Or are you one of the big talkers that packed his bags and slithered off to Ontario in the 80s flaunting bitter remarks online about how it's all a lost cause?
DeleteI agree with you that it's not a sufficient turn out. Everyone should do what they can. If you can't show up, then post, write to journalists Canada wide and be heard. If you can't do that, turn an 'arret' into a 'stop' in your neighbourhood. You paid for it after all, it should reflect you, not some asshole in the Beauce who thinks you don't belong in the city your community practically owns and builds.
Yes Ethnic - We have to start fighting back with words and actions if we can. Write everyone you can think of and post as much info as you can. Speak english whenever you're out and about - let's stop slinking around as if we're ashamed of being who we are.
DeleteIt's disgusting you were threatened. Did you call the police? Your MNA? Your MP? Yes, I'm sure the cops lazed around doing sweet f--k-all.
DeleteTo answer your question, I left in late 1984. Actually, I did so for a while in 1982, the day after my convocation at Concordia U. In fact, I moved to Ottawa for a while, and had my late mother drive the car over the border while I got out before the border and WALKED out of Quebec. I planned this for eight years and it finally came to fruition an agonizing eight years later. I left forever 2½ years later, haven't looked back and will NEVER come back to Quebec to live, just visit family and friends occasionally.
You'd think I'd be satisfied and silent having moved away almost 28 years ago. I'm not. I've worked on bilingual teams at work and have endured verbal abuse, mostly from the Lac-St-Jean/Saguenay and lower St. Lawrence regions. Worst of all, I'm fed up with Quebec, the Malcontent. We're now sending upwards of $8 billion per year (and counting) more to Quebec than is paid into the federal coffers in taxes for them to abuse fellow Canadians, complain endlessly they are getting short changed, and for Harper the Stooge to have handed former premier John James "Goldilocks" Charest $700 million that former premier John James "Goldilocks" Charest then turned around to make himself look like the hero who gave Quebec a $700 million tax cut. John James "Goldilocks" Charest was a big, fat phony, not a hero. Those funds were earmarked for programs and former premier John James "Goldilocks" Charest abused the relief. I hope Harper the Stooge revitalizes his image in 2014 when the equalization formulas are revisited, and hopefully severely revised!
"The next time there's an anti 101 rally and the bigots show up in combat fatigues and mag lights the size of baseball bats, while the cops pretend it's not happening or threatening"
DeleteAnd there in lies the problem. It's not so much that that you have highly racist and volatile thugs covering their faces, brandishing weapons and making death threats (even going as far as photo IDing so you and your family can be followed and threatened afterwards!). It's that Quebec police officers, the very officials who are there to protect you from physical harm, are sympathetic to the offenders.
Just look at the incident in Hampstead, the police were proudly parading those red necks around, even proclaiming it was in their right to essentially harass the Jewish community, because of the so-called Quebec charter.
Montreal police don't even hide the fact that they do racial profiling. When you cannot even trust the police, who is there to protect you?
Of course the cops are going to protect the system. They rely on it for their jobs anyway. A huge chunk of them are no longer bilingual to any degree. They are as incapable as most Francophone Quebecers to function anywhere outside of Quebec or anywhere that English is spoken. Not to mention that the police force have been raised on the same hate propaganda as that douchebag 'major' Provost. A Quebec judge allowed a convicted terrorist to go free for good behaviour prior to the attemted bombigs for God's sake. The judge is no doubt a graduate of UQAM! His degree should be printed on a pigs nutsack, he should be stripped of his right to practice law and sued for wilfully endangering society and for his total lack of impartiality. Just what kind of Canada are we living in?!
DeleteI hope Canadians read this blog and understand that not only do they subsidize this province with billions of their tax dollars annually, but they're also paying out fat pensions to the likes of Gilles Duceppe whose sole purpose in Parliament was to undermine the territorial integrity of Canada. This isn't a democracy - it's a farce that you all pay for. Hold your politicians accountable for where your tax dollars are going!
John Esposito says : " I think her appointment of Mr. Lisée pretty much heralds the kind of attention that Anglophones should expect from Ms. Marois."
DeleteI personnaly think that Lisée is a good candidate for the job.
Because independentists trust Lisée and have no doubt about his political views, Lisée can reach out to anglophones without facing critics from his supporters. If, let's say, Jean Charest had reach out to anglophones, he would have been pictured as a sell out and he would have probably alieanated a significant part of the francophone voters.
I would say, paraphrasing Mr Spock, that only Lisée could reach out to anglophones for basicaly the same reasons that only Nixon could go to China.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_goes_to_China)
Are you being cute Yannick? Have you seen the large size mag lights? Are they necessary at 9 am? Since the RCMP don't have jusrisdiction in this case, you should be asking where the SQ were or why the twenty cop cars that were parked a few feet away featured doughnuts and coffee while people were being threatened. You should also ask yourself why the demonstration was shown on the news with the glaring absence of the majority of the attendees, the uniformed thugs.
DeleteIf your question is legitimate, then perhaps the RCMP took a back seat since there haven't been any attempted bombings as in Quebec. The group that assembled against the Bill 101 rally was there without its leader who had been arrested a for threatening the organizers life. Do you see any similarities with your particular example?
Then again, maybe the SQ followed RCMP protocol and just let the whole thing slide since there's practically no difference between the neo nazis you're familiar with and the fascist groups that have a stranglehold on Quebec. Except of course, that in Quebec they plant bombs and get away with it as 'national' heros.
He was arrested for the death threats. His goons showed up and even physically assaulted the person who had received the death threats. No arrests were made. It's all fairly obvious unless you have an agenda you're trying to push, as you do Yannick.
DeleteBy the way, being arrested for the death threats means jack shit. Provost continued to run his gift shop of extremism on St Catherine without a hitch.
You referred to the RCMP and neo nazis above. I was responding to that post. You attempted to draw a comparison between a perceived ineffectiveness on the part of the RCMP and the extremism that their Quebecois counterparts willingly allow to continue -no doubt towing the line from the judicial and political systems of Quebec.
DeleteIt seems to me that you support the idea of a territorial enclave for unilingual Francophones within Canada where they are accorded special status above and beyond the rest of the Canadians residing in that territory.
But I'm not here to entertain you Yannick. I'm here to struggle for a voice that Quebec denies me. I'm here to let other Canadians know that I don't live in a democratic Canada and that I have absolutely no political representation at all. I want them to know that I'm fined for speaking my language; that I'm threatened for speaking my language; that my storefront has been defaced multiple times because I speak the official language of my choice. I want them to know that my future was limited in this province despite my two degrees, because of my last name. I want Canadians to know what really goes on here because I suspect they meet too many Francophones on the job hunt out west that sell a false image of Quebec and because the media and the federal government will not further the cause of our rights. I want them to know that with every dollar they pay in taxes, they are supporting a state within a state that was characterized by the UN in the 80s as second only to South African Apartheid in its institutionalized bigotry.
Ethnic, I fear that I must take Yannick's side on this... CSIS has repeatedly proven itself to be just as racially prejudiced as the SPVM or even the wannabe STM guards, and the RCMP cares little for Quebecers, regardless of their mother tongues.
Delete[sarcasm]At least the RCMP is being impartial in their indifference... be you anglo or franco, they don't give a hoot. [/sarcasm]
I'm not doubting Yannicks observation about the RCMP. I just don't see how it absolves Quebec. I would be interested to find an equivalent example from the roc where a convicted terrorist who is arrested a second time with bomb making equipment and weapons, is allowed to walk because his target ethnicity is the target group of the political system and society as a whole. Where else do we have these 'maudites autres' that lack any type of political representation and are persecuted for speaking one of the official languages of this country?
DeleteYou're absolutely right, it doesn't absolve Quebec, and this sort of violent nationalism does not exist outside of Quebec.
DeleteI'm just saying that the RCMP and CSIS set poor examples.
Scary that our federal police forces, overt and covert, are about as effective as the SQ, and THEY are as incompetent as the Keystone Cops!
DeleteThe opposition can bring her down anytime; the ball is in their court.
ReplyDeleteTo tell you the truth Editor, I think Yannick's comments about the courts is a little more realistic than the idea of Marois abusing decrees.
ReplyDeleteNo that I'm selling the woman short on her pettiness and her flagrant disregard for what is truly good for the people (Francos, Anglos, Allos alke), but it seems she's already having a hard time (example: retroactive taxes) and you can be sure that the Liberals and Legault are too bloodthirsty to allow her to pass motions without their chance to fight her on it.
As out to lunch as the PQ happens to be, they're still paying attention to public opinion and I think they're realizing that they are indeed in a corner.
Great article! Very few in the main stream media talked about the abuse of "order of council" to decree budgetary matters that should be put to a vote of confidence. The Lieutenant-General should straight out refuse Orders of Council that should be voted on in the assembly. There is a lot of precedence for this in the past. Moreover, the opposition parties can overturn Orders of Council by bringing forward members bills on any specific Orders of Council that do violate the spirit of democracy. All parties need to be held to task on this, as you have rightly pointed out....these decrees when abused absolutely violate our democracy and are extremely dangerous. The use and rules surrounding Orders of Council should be all over the news so that Quebecers understand exactly what is going on and who can and should do something about it.
ReplyDeleteOf course, she is going to do anything she can get away with - again, using the anglophones and allophones as scapegoats to suppress our rights and impose anything she likes. Her appointment of Mr. Lisee is so obvious that she doesn't give a sweet s--- for the anglophones or allophones in this province - just like a slap in the face. She knew how much he was disliked for some of the comments he's made about the anglophones. She doesn't care about this outbreak of separatist francophones attacking people on the street for speaking english - these people are way out of control. The more attention this gets in the media, the more she will say that this is not the PQs fault, that the people who are doing this, are doing it out of frustration and therefore it is to the benefit of all that everyone speak french only and that way, no more of these attacks will occur. Can you imagine the outcry should anglophones attack someone on the street of Alberta for speaking french? What is the matter with us? We have to start a war of paper on these things, write to anyone and everyone you can, publish what you can and object strenuously through e-mail, writing of letters to the editor, the Quebec Office of the English Language, the Federal Government language watchdog Mr. Fraser - just anyone you can think of to get the point across!
ReplyDelete@complicated - we HAVE TO STOP THINKING IN THE PAST - This is here and now - We can't keep apologizing for 60 years ago - stop bringing it up and get with it HERE AND NOW. We desperately need a partition party to get this over and done with - let those go that want to go - the rest of us have a right to live in peace and harmony - Partition this province and let's start a new bilingual province within our Canada.
Cutie: With all due respect, you're out to lunch. The simple fact of the matter is the first PQ government promoted overtly racist rhetoric, and so citizens with a hard-on hatred for the minorities legitimized what the PQ did and started doing it themselves without government intervention to stop it. Levesque at least recognized that Quebec Anglos should and did have the right to go to English schools at least as a transitional right until their children who were born post-Bill 101 were and are expected to live in French. They aren't, and likely won't in the future, and this is what is tying the péquistes in knots.
DeleteHow the péquistes were acting then and more so now, is much like how children legitimize the bad behaviours of their parents. If you use profane language in front of your children, expect them to use the profanities too. You can't swear then tell your children not to. If you smoke tobacco, don't tell your kids not to. My parents were both smokers, but my brother and I are not. I chose not to smoke because I always detested second hand smoke when I was a child and of course was aware of the dangers from a very young age; in fact, I now have asthma! I'm sure having had smoke blown constantly in my face during my youth was a contributor to my current problem.
My point therefore is just because some people choose to be overt racists doesn't mean everybody has to. Unfortunately there are followers who legitimize those they follow. There IS such a thing as bad leadership and there are those who lack initiative and follow the leader whether it's smart to do so or not.
As for activism against all this, that's as much up to you as anyone else, but be forewarned in light of Howard Galganov's past efforts. As a part of the minorities, you have absolutely nobody to blame but yourselves for dissing past advocates in your corner.
I don't get what I'm "out to lunch" about. We can't keep talking about what should have been, what was and how we should have helped Mr. Galganov, because none of this is helping where WE ARE TODAY AND WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT. Activism is only going to work if people get involved - that much we know - that's what I'm asking everyone to do - get involved, please. You have the Quebec Office of the English Language, sign their petitions to get rid of the "Notwithstanding" clause in the consitution so Quebec cannot abuse it any longer, e-mail everyone you can think of to let them know you are tired of having your rights as a Canadian citizen abused by the Quebec Provincial Government(s), write to Mr. Fraser (he's supposed to be protecting the rights of ALL Canadians not just the french) when you find that your menus are in french only, flyers and correspondence you receive in the mail are in french only, etc. Write to your MNA, your federal reps, anyone you can think of - NO MORE POWER TO QUEBEC - We desperately need a Provincial Partition Party to carve the turkey and let those go that want to go!
ReplyDeleteIt was NOT my intention to seriously offend you. Unfortunately, written communication is more objective than oral, so it's far easier to take out of context. OK, follow all the suggestions you mention above, except writing your MNA. They're impotent Quislings--the whole damn lot of them! There hasn't been an MNA in Quebec with gonads and a backbone since early 1989 when Clifford Lincoln, Richard French and Herbert Marx all resigned in one fell swoop when they refused to vote for Bou-Bou's Bill 178, his abuse of the notwithstanding clause in the federal constitution and revenge against those who refused to ratify the Meech Lake Accord. If I live another 100 years from today (I won't!), I'll still be thankful for [ex-Newfoundland premier] Clyde Wells and Manitoba MLA Elijah Harper for their convictions and standing up to them despite enormous pressure to support the Accord. Wells took a lot of abuse from Mulroney for reversing his predecessor's support of the Accord, but I'm sure Wells told Mulroney where to get off as well, and good for him!
DeleteThose West Island MNAs have it made. They regularly vote against what their constituents wishes, yet get elected in landslides each and every election. They were only challenged in 1989 by the Equality Party, and four of them took a hit...and rightfully so. A party with four representatives is not strong, but it's better than the Quislings who were representing them before.
You`re now clamoring for a partitionist party. GREAT! I think it`s about time Quebec confronts threats for trying to break up Canada. How about simply breaking up Quebec. Works for me! So what is it YOU are going to do to promote partition!
Well Mr. Sauga as I've said before, I'm no lawyer nor politician but I know of no other way to start a movement than what I'm doing which is e-mailing politicians, letters to the editors of community newspapers, joining whatever group I can and promoting the breakup of this province - as much as one person can do. What are YOU doing besides writing on this blog? What else do you suggest we do? I'm willing to listen to whatever anyone suggests that we can do and I agree with your above statements about our politicians but until we put pressure on these NMAs, nothing at all will be done. If enough of us write and complain as I'm doing, there is strength in numbers.
DeleteOK, it's better than nothing, but the problem is how many people have you engaged as a result of this? If you say none, I'm not surprised. I feel too many in the minority communities are not doing enough but complain profusely.
DeleteKeep up the good work. Hopefully it will take someday, but don't be surprised if it doesn't. I keep going back to the Galganov example, but there is little else to go to. Even CTV cut off Suburban editor Beryl Wajsman when he was ripping that ex-PQ MNA to ribbons who endlessly extolled the virtues of Pauline Marois on election night. I was on the cusp of retching over that bitch and her endlessly handing Pauline Marois undeserved accolades. Considering how the French media would have allowed a French reporter to run roughshod over an Anglo politician or anything else, CTV had a golden opportunity to return the favour, but didn't.
@Mr. Sauga - You're no longer a resident of this province so why don't you people start a referendum on behalf of ROC as you're all sick of this and I don't blame you. If the ROC threaten to kick us out, perhaps then we will be able to fight back with the creation of a partition party to keep areas that want to remain. This may be what happens as a result of the Rest of Canada saying "enough's enough". I don't care how we get there as long as we get there. 40 years of this is more than long enough and let's all end the misery one way or the other!
DeleteI'll look into it.
DeleteHow about a Coalition Against Equalization Payments for Quebec? Unfortunately, I don't see that going over well in Quebec, even amongst the minorities (i.e., «les autres».
DeleteOK, I take back some of what I said earlier regarding the severity in the Editor's point-of-view:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/politique-quebecoise/201209/26/01-4577676-nicolas-girard-sera-nomme-pdg-de-lamt.php
Now Marois is using decrees for the purpose of cronyism.
Guess Nicolas Girard will never have to face up to the real world like the rest of us. Up until his defeat he was a career politician. Now that Marois has decreed a nepotistic hand-out, you can almost count on him making it back into the National Assembly without ever having to endure the perilous private sector.
BTW, thought it was time to point out a little something seeing as how we're referred to as "Angryphones."
ReplyDeleteSorry, does Quebec's Anglo community have anything like this? http://web.archive.org/web/20091125120441/http://www.milice.qc.ca/
Yup, that's right.
And you should see their youtube video where they use Green Day‘s “Know Your Enemy“. What amazing defenders of the french language the mini-lice are.
DeleteAnd editor do you even have to ask about the PQunt‘s intentions? They have always been and forever will be the political wing of the FLQunt. Ruling by decree is an even bigger assault on democracy then, say, a giant omnibus bill.
Really Yannick? they must've joined the Resau then - the goons that show up at anti 101 rallies to throw punches at the organizer and threaten him and his family. And you're not an apologist? What exactly are the more extremist elements of an already extreme organization?! These fuckers should be beaten down with a federal stick now. Just what the fuck are CSIS and the RCMP doing allowing extremist terrorist organizations to assemble and train? I guess it's all in the name. If you're an Abdul, you're detained. If you're a Tessier white Catholic, it's all good.
DeleteThese groups all share one thing in common - the desire for a uniligual province and the exclusion of all others, to varying degrees. Whether it's the militia, the jeunes patriotes, the resau or their political manifistations in sovereigntist parties, they all want us to either assimilate or get out. I'm sure the non French speaking readers appreciate your translation, but it's only helpful in minimizing the threat we face here on a daily basis. Only forty members, and disbanding to avoid conflict is, I'm sure, exactly their public position. How rational of them, and how big of you to show that we don't live in a province where leaflets were distributed during the last referendum in the subway outlining the use of a hammer as a tool and weapon to defend against the dreaded Anglos and Ethnics. Why don't you translate more of what can be found on their sites? What about the black uniformed patriotes goose stepping in small towns all across Quebec in proper Brownshirts fashion? What's getting to me is that you fail to make the connection between these extremists and their political parties. they are one and the same with a safe enough distance between them so that any Marois can feign detachment. The truth is in the pudding, and the SQ have allowed all these groups to flourish while the political system and the ministers of education hash out the hate propaganda for these groups to find new ignorant acolytes.
DeleteWell, the SQ is Surêté Québecoise... and since we're not ''real'' Québecois...
DeleteTo prove the point that extremism is a unified concept in Quebec, supported by the government and its apathetic citizens:
Deletehttp://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2001/07/06/second_cup010706.html
Ask yourself where else a convicted terrorist would be allowed to go free for good behavious since his last act of terrorism!
SQ = Sûreté du Québec
DeleteOui, SR. Merçi.
DeleteHé, juste de ma propre curiosité, SR, écrit-tu avec un clavier AZERTY ou QWERTY ?
Delete"the desire for a uniligual province" - should read "uniligual country" and that's what we all want at this point! Let's partition the damn province and let those go that think they can survive without the rest of us - sink or swim!
DeleteReceived a Youtube video from Quebec Office of the English Language re: the assault of the 17 year boy that was speaking to his friends in english in St-Leonard. The group has an "For Immediate Release" paper September 24 2012 calling on the Federal Government through the Department of Justice to take action for "Federal Government Protection for Minority Language Rights After Recent Incidents". Please go to their website to read this paper. Five days prior to this incident, Mr. G's mother - a member of the advocacy group Quebec Office of the English Language - met with prominent political figures on behalf of the Office, received a threat. The mysterious caller said: "Stop what you're doing or else". This is at least, a step in the right direction. Please all, join the group or any group that is standing up for our rights. We have to be more outspoken and put pressure on this government to stop promoting the "French only" dictate that they keep putting forward to the public. These incidents are going to become more and more unless they stop this. We solely need a provincial political party that is going to propose ways out of this on-going stalemate because it's getting worse and not better. Partition party please so we can let these bigots go live in their own little corner of Quebec and leave the rest of us be!
ReplyDeleteShould have read "sorely need a provincial...."
DeleteA link would be appreciated, as that sounds like an interesting read.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure their website has it as it was for release. Just look up the Quebec Office of the English Language. See there are riots all over Greece due to austerity measures put in place in the face of their debt. Guess what province is facing this in the near future. We are so close and then there will be riots all over Quebec because we are spending far faster than we can afford. Don't know what lucky government will be in power here when we face the music but I hope it's the PQ! We need a partition party before this happens to us - come on you wanna be politicians - now's the chance!
DeleteWhat is a partition party going to accomplish cutie???? A partition party might win 10 seats and thats being optimistic..no hope of being in power. Lets talk about the real problems that are facing us..its the economy, the debt, the high taxes. Its not about seperation or partition..lets stop talking about it..it isnt coming here anytime soon.
DeletePauline is likely going to try and aggravate anglophones here and in the rest of Canada..thats to be expected. How far will she go..time will tell. If she overplays her cards she may well lose the next election. So far she is not inspiring confidence with her constants changes and backtracking..if she keeps doing that then we will be fine. If the economy gets worse then that will probably work against her also.
Lets be smart here..lets be tactical..let her make mistakes..I think she could almost self-destruct on her own. Lets not give them any ammunition to use against the anglos.
complicated,
Delete"Lets not give them any ammunition to use against the anglos."
You are getting very repetitious. When will you get it into your head that Quebec nationalists will attack Anglos no matter what we do.
And you guys are less repetitive..thats a good one. I keep reading the same statements over and over..its either cutie and others going on and on ad nauseum about partition. Or Ed and his nostalgic reminiscing of the good ole days when the anglos were in control.
DeleteLuckily there are some refreshing voices here like Yannick..
complicated- why do you keep antagonizing everyone? Why don't you do some volunteer work or something? Anything but keep telling us to kiss the separatist a===s!
DeleteComplicated is just masquerading as an anglophone. His arguments are as dishonest as Yannicks. A troll from the province under the bridge.
DeletePARTITION IS THE ONLY WAY TO E N D THIS STALEMATE! Other than that we can look forward to another 100 years of SAME OLD = SAME OLD. High taxes, union corruption, property values that are much lower than they should be, riots in the streets when we find we have no credit rating and austerity measures must be put in place, continuous loss of our CANADIAN RIGHTS, attacks by militants that the government sanctions for attacking people that don't speak french, PARTITION THIS F====== PROVINCE AND LET US GET BACK TO A NORMAL LIFE WITHIN CANADA!
DeleteEssentially, S.R is masquerading as Complicated.
DeleteSince most of us have him on our no-fly list, the same should apply to his alter ego.
No Anglo would go to the trouble that Complicated has to sell non-Francos and immigrants off Quebec.
Really is sad to see just how much time S.R has on his hands.
Geronimo,
Delete'Complicated' and 'S.R' are not the same guy. Just take a close look at the differences in their punctuation.
But, as 'ethnic' stated, chances are that 'complicated' is actually a Francophone misrepresenting himself as an Anglo.
Je ne crois pas que Complicated soit aussi séparatiste que je le suis mais bon...
DeleteI cant believe you guys are having a debate on whether or not I am an anglophone? Are you for real? Obviously I cant prove it but I can assure you that english is my mother tongue. I have close family members who are francophone hence can relate a lot better than most anglophones to the francophone side of the equation. I work mainly with francophones and have had many arguments about language issues with them..trying to explain to them that Bill 101 is borderline acceptable..I can take most of the bill except the part where french must be larger than english on signs. That is going too far in my opinion especially in anglo areas like the west island.
DeleteHowever I am sure that without Bill 101 Montreal would have been far more english than it is now. Anglophones have no idea what its like to see your language disappearing. Francophones have to make a stand and they are doing it in Montreal. I dont agree with any more extensions to Bill 101 as it will worsen the economic situation.
My main concern is the economy..the PQ will destroy it bit by bit. This latest increase in taxes is another example of how they will weaken an already weak economy.
Is it so hard to accept criticism from an anglophone or to even imagine an anglophone coulf find fault with your arguments? There are many francophones who dont agree with the seperatists.
However I am sure that without Bill 101 Montreal would have been far more english than it is now.
DeleteYou keep saying this and I'm still waiting for you to explain why it is a bad thing. Yes, without Bill 101 Montreal would be a lot more English in the sense that: 350,000 anglophones wouldn't have left the City, both languages would have been equally accepted (remember that Quebec was officially Bilingual when Bill 101 came in the 1970's, English no longer being the sole official language since the mid-1960's), lots of businesses would still have their headquarters in Montreal (ironically making the "loss" of Montreal less costly to the RoQ), immigrant finding it easier to integrate as they'd have two languages to choose from.
No, I really don't see how that would have been a bad thing. Especially considering that 60% of Montrealers are bilingual or trilingual.
Anglophones have no idea what its like to see your language disappearing
Not being an anglophone, I can only say that I've been living in a language other than my own for nearly 15 years, and, since I CAN speak English, I don't give two hoots about what happens to Italian, or what happened to Latin before that, or Etruscan even before. Languages live and die: we don't live in a postcard and there is no reason why the situation today should remain unchanged when society is moving in a certain difrection. And, for the record, the Louisiana French did not stop speaking French until they were forced to by the US Equivalent of Bill 101.
Francophones have to make a stand and they are doing it in Montreal
A stand for what? Is 98% unilingual Francophone Provincial Quebec not good enough for them. Bogus argument with no substance. French stopped being threatened in Quebec long before Bill 101. Montreal, even without Bill 101 has been getting more and more Francophone since the mid 19th century. What's the threat? That the rate of francisation has slowed down? That people start speaking english because they LIKE IT rather than because they HAVE TO? That if people start speaking english they'll hate the english LESS?
I work mainly with francophones and have had many arguments about language issues with them..trying to explain to them that Bill 101 is borderline acceptable..I can take most of the bill except the part where french must be larger than english on signs.
And
I dont agree with any more extensions to Bill 101 as it will worsen the economic situation.
My main concern is the economy..the PQ will destroy it bit by bit. This latest increase in taxes is another example of how they will weaken an already weak economy.
Well, that's kind of you. Like saying you're OK with Racial Laws in Nazi Germany, but you draw the line at the Jews having to wear a yellow star...
Is it so hard to accept criticism from an anglophone or to even imagine an anglophone coulf find fault with your arguments? There are many francophones who dont agree with the seperatists.
It's not hard at all to take criticism from either Anglophones or Francophones (see Yannick) when there is some merit to it. Yours hasn't got any, just textbook college-level activist politics (Who shouts the loudest about being a victim? The French have been claiming to be victims for a long time, let's side with them, regardless of the validity of their claims, and regardless of how heinous their methods are). You've fallen hook line and sinker for the lie that Montreal is a French city, and you'll never cease to be an apologist for the elimination of everything that spoils this illusion, just like those Irish-Americans who used to fund the IRA under the illusion that they were fighting an occupying force, when they were just the armed branch of the (minoritarian) Ulster Catholics (and runners of drugs and protection rackets to boot)
No, I really don't see how that would have been a bad thing. Especially considering that 60% of Montrealers are bilingual or trilingual.
DeleteThats the problem right there..you see no problem with Montreal being a mainly english city. It is a huge problem when you are talking about the largest city in the last region of North America where french is spoken. If Montreal becomes essentially an english only city do you really think it will only stop there? No it wont..then you will start seeing english people moving into the suburbs then eventually elsewhere. Meanwhile the economic centre of Quebec will be run by anglophones hence any francophone who wants to work here will more or less have to do so in english only. French will once again become marginalized like it was 50 years ago.
Languages live and die: we don't live in a postcard and there is no reason why the situation today should remain unchanged when society is moving in a certain difrection
Dont expect people to just sit there and shrug their shoulders and accept that their language is dying. They will fight to protect it and why not..especially when there is a sufficiently large population. Very easy for anglophones to throw out this tired argument as they never have to deal with their language disappearing. Comparing french in Canada to other languages imported into Canada recently is not fair at all. I am sure that any Italian or Greek coming into Canada was well aware they would have to speak either english or french and that with time their children likely would lose touch with the native language. However french Quebecers were the founding settlers in this region..they have more roots here than any other European nation..they are not just going to accept that their language and culture fades away.
Well, that's kind of you. Like saying you're OK with Racial Laws in Nazi Germany, but you draw the line at the Jews having to wear a yellow star...
Can you people please stop with the WW2 analogies. What happened to the Jews in WW2 and what has happened to anglophones in Montreal are worlds apart. Last time I checked the english were doing very well here in Montreal..still tons of anglophone institutions for a small anglophone population..still a lot of english being spoken in the city. The usage of the Holocaust is rampant by anglophones..maybe I should start using the white Rhodesian analogies or the analogies to British Imperial rule..although there is more an element of truth with that analogy with respect to the english 50 years ago then your ridiculous comparison to the Nazis.
You've fallen hook line and sinker for the lie that Montreal is a French city, and you'll never cease to be an apologist for the elimination of everything that spoils this illusion,
I would say in fact right now and in the past Montreal Island was a mixed city, but including the nearby suburbs the region has been overwhelmingly french since its inception. My point is that if Montreal Island becomes essentially anglo dominated then it will pose huge problems for the preservation of the french culture in Quebec. You cant lose your largest city to another language and hope to easily maintain the french culture across the province.
Exactly Resident Evil - That's what we've been trying to get across to complicated - this is the way is STARTS - demonizing a religion, a colour, a race, a LANGUAGE - get some common "enemy" to rally the troops and it goes from there. That's exactly what's happening here in Quebec and we have to fight back. These militants believe that we're willing to sit back and take whatever they dish out and we have to ensure that they know this is no longer acceptable. We are CANADIANS and FREE TO MAKE A CHOICE what language we wish to communicate in - no one has the right to tell us otherwise!
Deleteif Montreal becomes essentially an english only city
DeleteDear Mr Complicated, please point out where, in all my history of posting on this blog, do I suggest that Montreal becomes "essentially an english only city" before you argue against it. If, since I never advocated that, you cannot find any evidence, do everyone a favour and find .yourself a girlfriend, so you can stop trolling this website. I will no longer entertain a discussion with a creature that, in order to score points, has to invent a LIE, attribute it to me and then make an argument against it.
You, sir, are a scoundrel. Desist at once.
I know you're trying to be open-minded, Yannick, but it's a line that he peddled before, and a staple of his argument. I put him right on that before, but he keeps ignoring it. Also, he seems to be using too many standard rhetoric tricks: generalisations based on anecdotes, slippery slope arguments, selective quoting and ignoring inconvenient facts... At some point I thought he was genuine, even if a bit of a stereotype. Now I've changed my mind, especially given his sudden appearance after the elections. Whether he's a plant, a troll, S.R. in disguise or just a shit-stirrer is a moot point. He's not here to advance the discussion, only to stall it, and I'm not going to entertain him again, whereas I can disagree with you and learn something in the process. I know which one I'd rather discuss with.
DeleteTQP -
DeleteI said that what you are advocating will result in Montreal becoming essentially an english only city. Montreal was well on the way back in the 1960s..without Bill 101 there is no doubt that the vast majority of citizens would be speaking english now.
Once again you have to resort to name calling now because you dont like what I said.
Lets look at the practical problems right now. I think we all agree that the PQ are bad for the economy. The imminent issue we need to face now is trying make sure the PQ dont get re-elected in the next election which could happen as early as next year. The PQ strategy is to get the ROC and anglophones angry..they will provoke..I think we all agree on this too. The best thing we could all do now is to ignore them. They will have a hard time pushing through any radical legislation given they are in a minority position.
Talk of partition is a total waste of time at this point and frankly will just act to anger some francophones. We need the francophone vote to defeat the PQ..we need to behave in a way so that these voters are less likely to turn against us..ie support the PQ. Its the harsh reality..a partition party does absolutely nothing as it will never form government. In fact a partition party would be lucky to get a few seats right now. It will be used by the PQ as another reason why the anglos should not be trusted.
Lets face it most anglophones are pretty apathetic right now. You guys represent the more militant anglo but you are clearly in the minority judging by how few people comment on this site. You are not going to get anglos marching on the streets and supporting some new radical partition party. You might if the PQ win a majority and then decide to make some real discriminatory changes hurting the anglos. Is this what people on this forum are actively seeking..I am starting to wonder??
Wouldnt it be far more productive to let Marois and her gangs of incompetents self destruct without giving her any ammunition to use against us??
You all can rant and rave all you want but we do not have any political clout in Quebec. Do you really think Harper and his gang will stand up for the english minority in Quebec..I dont think so. So we are basically on our own and we do not have the luxury of making demands and drawing lines in the sand. So lets be smart and patient..keep our cool and an open mind.
I keep saying I'm not going to respond but dammit it's so aggravating to keep repeating the same thing - we don't know what Harper will or won't do because we have been silent for the past 10 years so why should he stand up for us? Until we show dissatisfaction with what is going on in this province, there is no reason for the federal government to do anything! The only way we can get anything to change is to object to being the "bad" guys in this province and stand up for the fact that we are Canadian and EXPECT the Canadian Government to protect us from the continuous attacks that the separatists foist upon us! Going on the way we have been has done nothing for anyone except the separatists - as soon as they feel they can take away more of our rights as Canadian citizens - they will do so. WE HAVE TO FIGHT BACK AND STOP BEING PATSIES FOR THEM! They're now sure we're nothing but cowards and continuing to appease them is the wrong track. Perhaps nothing will change but at least we can try to put a stop to them using us as punching bags!
DeleteVery naive if you think Harper will defend us..he wont. He wont because he doesnt want to do anything that might provoke an increase in the cause of seperation. So he will remain more or less silent. And again we have no real political clout in Quebec.
DeleteLets say a referendum does come up in a few years and this sounds like what you actually want. As soon as its announced the economy collapses, a bunch of anglos leave, property values plummet, people lose their jobs and so on. Plus tensions between francophones and anglophones and within their respective groups goes through the roof. So all in all a miserable place to live just like the days before the last 2 referendums. Lets say that Quebec votes to seperate by a small margin..then we will have years more of wrangling between Quebec and Canada..taking a further toll on the economy and driving more anglos out.
Hence again not a good place to be living especially if you are an anglo. The partition issue will add even more oil to the fire and drag on the discussion for even more years. All the while things deteriorate further.
Lets say the referendum fails..we see a meek recovery. But in all likelihood so much damage will have been done that it may take many many years to recover. Remember the debt situation of Quebec is far worse now than in 1995 and 1980..not sure Quebec would recover from another referndum. I suspect most anglos would leave for good this time and some of the more mobile francophones would also. So we would be left in a totally depressed bankrupt decaying province. The tensions would still remain high given the weak economy..it would be a worse time to be an anglo than now.
I dont see any positive outcome from a referendum at all. Please correct me where you think I am wrong. The best outcome right now is that the PQ make many mistakes over the next 6 months and an election is forced next year. The PQ lose..with either the CAQ or Liberals winning a majority. Personally I would like to see the CAQ as they would be the best party to deal with the economy and deal with the debt and waste in government.
So be very very careful what you wish for Cutie..things could get quite hellish here with all your partition talk.
You two, and the people who think like you, are the reason the separatists get away with kicking us in the teeth all time while they smile. I want a referendum to settle who goes where once and for all so that at least some of us will get back to a normal NDPvsPCvsLiberal situation in this country. I will not live another 40 years to finally see the end of this nonsense that has kept this country from advancing for so long. We have let the tail wag the dog for so long that you seem to think this is a normal way of life! Neither one of you seem to recognize that the francophones are not stupid - they know this province is well on it's way to bankruptcy. You seem to think that all they know is French vs English and I don't agree. They know they are better off in Canada than in the dream world that the separatists are creating in this province. When the chips are down, I'm willing to bet that they would place their chips with the Canadian side of the coin not the monopoly money that Quebec will create when they have their own country! AND PARTITION IS A POSSIBILITY IF ANOTHER REFERENDUM TAKES PLACE - STOP SAYING IT'S NOT! The Canadian Government has a DUTY AND RESPONSIBILITY TO LOOK AFTER CANADIAN CITIZENS WHEREVER THEY RESIDE EVEN IN QUEBEC!
DeleteAnd when does the old expression "strike while the iron is hot" come into play? Is this not the time to stand up and be counted? When would be a better time? When separatism is at 40%? That is the whole point - one last referendum - let areas go that want to go - less than would have gone in the past but still time to let some of them go - those that don't want to remain within Canada can sell their property at a premium and move to the new bankrupt Quebec should they choose to do so. I can't think of a better time for a decisive move to change this whole stalemate.
DeleteI said that what you are advocating will result in Montreal becoming essentially an english only city. Montreal was well on the way back in the 1960s..without Bill 101 there is no doubt that the vast majority of citizens would be speaking english now.
DeleteOnce again you have to resort to name calling now because you dont like what I said.
Not sure why I'm still bothering, but:
Ethnic Composition of Montreal Island in Percentages 1871-1961
Year French British Other
1871 60.3 38.1 1.6
1901 63.9 31.6 4.5
1921 60.7 27.3 12.0
1941 62.6 24.5 12.9
1951 63.8 22.2 14.0
1961 62.0 18.1 19.9
Source: Norbert Lacoste, Les caractéristiques sociales de la population du Grand Montréal, Montréal: Les Presses de l'Université de Montréal, 1958
So, it looks like, before Bill 101 the Francophone population remained steady, the anglophones dwindled and the immigrants made up the numbers.
From the 2006 Census:
Mother Tongue of Montrealers:
English Only: 16.8%
French Only: 48.79%
English and French: 0.8%
Other Languages: 33.6%
Knowledge of Official Languages:
English Only: 11.5%
French Only: 30.0%
English AND French: 56.0%
Neither English nor French: 2.6%
So, it would seem that, after Bill 101 the number of French Mother-tongue speakers has fallen faster than at any time during English Rule. It also shows that the majority of Montrealers are bilingual.
So, yes, I don't like what you say because you persistently LIE about the facts. That warrants the occasional name calling until you set the record straight.
And, one last thing:
I think we all agree that the PQ are bad for the economy.
No, we don't agree on that either. I couldn't care less whether they are good or bad for the economy: in democracy they have earned a mandate to govern, slim as it is. The jury's still out there as to whether they've learnt from the mistakes of the past, but can they really be any worse than Dalton McGuinty? Even if they are bad for the economy, they're not the first Government that was so, and they won't be the last. Human rights abuses are somewhat more serious, and economies tend to suffer more when such abuses take place than when some incompetent holds office: I'd still rather be in Greece than in Zimbabwe or North Korea. If all that you object of the PQ is their financial management, then you may as well join them and show them how it's done: you might even get kicked with a polished jackboot, rather than a muddy one.
What is the whole purpose of the PQ party? Is it not to separate from Canada by having a referendum? Of course, I don't think they will have a referendum because they don't have "the winning conditions" but it could be winning conditions for another party - I would like to see another party evolve out of this = right now we have only the liberals, all the rest are separatists. Perhaps some other ambitious politician will come into play in the near future that is willing and able to get this province back on track by signing the constitution and/or creating a partition party that will end all this push/pull we've had to put up with all these years. How do we get this going except through discussion and suggestions and showing that we've had enough of all this garbage.
DeleteTQP -
DeleteThose 62 percent of francophones living on Montreal island were likely forced to speak english much of the time for work and other purposes. Not sure what those numbers prove other than to say that the island was predominantly french. Yes we all know now that francophones are moving off the island for cheaper housing and new immigrants all stay on the island.
If Bill 101 never existed the french number would be even lower because all those large corporations that left in the 1970s would still be here employing thousands more anglophones. And francophones would have had to speak english in many of these corporations.
The rate of decline of french would have been even steeper..its not rocket science. You must know how many anglophones fled Montreal in the 1970s..they would all be here still.
I think the economy is the biggest issue facing us over the next several years. Our debt is massive..our taxes are very high..the world economy is a mess. Its one thing to be inconvenienced by Bill 101 but when you lose your job its another story. When enough people become unemployed then you can get some radical ideas coming into play..my fear is that a poor economy could be used by the PQ to rally the francophones against the Federal govt and make another case for seperation. When most people are living well and are comfortable there is less motivation to support radical changes politically. We see this all over the world..many of the riots over the past few years are triggered by a large group of people who have nothing left to lose..they are chronically unemployed and disenfranchised.
complicated,
DeleteYou seem to give the impression that the massive exodus of Anglophones from Montreal was a good thing. You're a self-loathing sicko.
Foremost,
ReplyDeleteHere is the link:
http://oqla.org/en/discussion/media/119-child-assaulted-for-speaking-english-in-public
How will A&E's (Anglos & Ethnics) fare under Marois and what can we expect?
ReplyDeleteThe truth is that the negative impacts of the PQs policies probably affect the french-only Québécois the most, the very people the PQ is supposedly trying to "protect". These policies remove their freedoms and take away the opportunity for them to ever consider a life outside this province. It forces them to stay isolated from the provinces and countries surrounding them, and at the same time from the entire world, which is slowly adopting english as a universal language.
Those of us who aren't limited to french shouldn't worry too much. Yes, our province is going to be run into the ground by these extremists for a few years, but we've still got opportunities elsewhere, and there will still always be jobs for those of us who are more qualified here in this province.
Think of the Jean-Guy who voted PQ thinking "on va les avoir les maudits anglais!", who will lose his unionized job because the corporation he works for will move their Quebec installations as a result of Marois' new business tax or ridiculous laws. He's the one who's really screwed.
The new Marois government has already resulted in a massive amount of jobs lost, whether it be in the Asbestos area or with the imminent closing of the Gentilly-2 nuclear generating plant. No matter what your opinion on these two industries, we're talking about a lot of high paying jobs. These aren't dirty anglo and ethnic jobs in the montreal area either..
To me, this is perfect. The only way to get a separatist to realize the damage he or she is doing is to affect them financially, and the PQ seem to be off to a great start!
"Already we are hearing that the $200 a head health tax is too be abolished, replaced by a retroactive increase in taxes on the rich. All this through the power of decree!"
ReplyDeleteActually, the articles I've read say the tax increase will require a vote in the National Assembly to pass, and the Liberals and CAQ are against it.
La hausse des impôts des nantis n'est pas négociable, dit Marceau
ReplyDeletehttp://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/politique-quebecoise/201209/26/01-4577877-la-hausse-des-impots-des-nantis-nest-pas-negociable-dit-marceau.php
I completely agree with Q of Tree S. Those who are bilingual and even trilingual won’t really be affected. They can go anywhere else to live, work and prosper. They have choices and we all know, Life is about having choices. I overheard a conversation the other day and it made a lot of sense, in regards to this need & goal to keep the French speaking population and immigrants especially, unilingual. The observation is that, perhaps it is intentional for another reason: how else can they ensure that someone remains in this province to pay for the aging babyboomers? Food for thought.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile though, they may be mobile which I agree, but if they own property here in Quebec, it's not so easy because they will probably have to sell their land at a great loss to themselves and what stake will they have to start over somewhere else? The mobility is good if you don't own anything here so it would be especially great for the children of the property owners. Just their inheritance would be affected.
DeleteFROM ED BROWN
ReplyDeleteI knew about the Quebecoise militia and I'm sorry to hear it's been disbanded. I was hoping they would go too far somewhere and force Canada to act even just for their own protection. Wouldn't it be nice if Harper would invoke the war measures act. Ed
FROM ED BROWN
ReplyDeleteI remember a young french lad (19 yr. old) sitting in my loiving room in 1976, saying to me, "Vous allez voir, vous anglais." I said at the time "Vous allez direz, Rene, ou est mon job.) I knew his company was going to leave. Afterward, he blamed the English. I saw him recently. He's hoping marois won't drive his company away before he can reach retirement age. Ed
Great anecdote, Ed. Love the delicious irony!
DeleteI tuned in to CJAD the other day and they mentioned that the PQ floated the idea of having a Minister (or some sort of position in the government) in charge of anglophones. At first I thought the idea absurd until one caller -- a "Guiliano" (who may have been Guilliano D'Andrea) -- suggested it would be a good thing because then this minister could be questioned about it during question period and specific questions addressed to him/her regarding the community.
ReplyDeleteIt made quite good sense to me now that I've had time to think about it.
If such a position came about, I think the community should make a concerted effort to have one very important policy take place: the coming into effect of section 23.1.a of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms so that English-speaking immigrants to Quebec who become Canadian citizens can send their children to English schools.
Hasn't Lisee been nominated minister of anglophone affairs, or something like that?
DeleteIn any case, for as long as Quebeckers remain obsessed about anglophones and the English language to this degree, for that long they will remain colonized in mind and spirit (despite the ironic fact that politically they are much more like colonizers, with the power of the state on their side and the economy rigged to serve their interests).
A colonizer on the outside, a colonized on the inside. The paradox of QC.
The difference is that the Ontario ministry of francophone affairs is more likely to press for more francophone services, while a Quebec ministry of anglophone affairs will do just the opposite.
DeleteFROM ED BROWN
ReplyDeleteWhat bothers me is what they mean by 'in charge of anglophones'.
EDITOR - I owe you an apology. I had no right to challenge you over my post on Complicated you don't deserve that.. I apologize publicly. It wont happen again. I notice others are annoyed by him and I think that his lifestyle is to be as annoying as possible.
One thing that worries me right now is Legault's intentions. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go with Pauline if she offered him some concessions to allow him to save face. He could say he is doing it for the best of everyone. If the Liberals don't get their act together soon and make a deal with him look out. Think of the temmptation. He would be in a position of power over her knowing he gives her the majority. He also knows that when the PQ dump her which they do with all their leaders if they think they see someone better on the horizon, he would be premier with a majority government. Ed
FROM ED BROWN
ReplyDeleteI can understand that you feel dumped with so many
my self included but sometimes you have to ask yourself if everybody opposes me could I possibly be wrong. It's not just the fact that you anger English people by telling them the whole seps problem is their fault but you say it over and over even when absolutely no one agrees with you. Even when I point out to you that of the times you speak we did not ignore the french, we were busy trying to live. I know, I was there. Ed
Ed - I agree with you totally - we can't trust Legault not to side with her to further his own career and/or to split with Canada. Just because he says "no referendum for 10 years" does not mean that he is not a separatist at heart and, as we know, they will do anything for a means to an end. I'm to the point that I don't care anymore if they have another referendum - anything to get the splitting up of this province underway and get back to a normal life inside of Canada. If that takes another referendum, so be it. As I've said before, it won't be long before the rest of Canada has a referendum to kick us out - blood sucking leeches that we are. Who can blame them - they're working towards balanced budgets with no debt and we're working towards bankruptcy and don't give a damn that we're close to $300B in debt. We have yet to get a government that is willing to cut back on these crazy social programs that we keep instituting with no regard to money whatsoever. Something has to give and I'm for whatever it is that lets these spendthrifts go.
ReplyDeleteIt sounds more and more like you want to provoke a referendum by lashing out at the PQ. You may get what you wish for but I dont think you will be happy with the results. Things are pretty good right now for anglos..they could get a lot worse.
DeleteThe Federal govt has abandoned us..the Liberals under Charest ignored us..the other parties are obviously not going to help us much..a partition party will at most give us a few seats and then what?? We have no political clout..anglos here are pretty apathetic in general..they wont march on the streets..you know why because most of them are livng pretty well right now. The anglos left in Quebec usually have pretty good jobs otherwise they would have left to work elsewhere. What could happen is another anglo exodus which the PQ would love to see..is that what you want and how wil that help us. So now we will have even fewer anglos in Quebec.
From a practical point of view your partition idea makes no sense at all.
You just want this to go on and on forever and forever - I don't - we will agree to disagree.
DeleteIf you think a referendum and partition is solution then it will go on and on forever and things will get a lot worse..
DeleteThe only hope now is to get rid of the PQ and elect a government that will cut government spending and waste, reduce taxes and put the whole linguistic debate on the backburner. In my opinion the CAQ is the best option.
Cutie, Do not feed the trolls.
Delete"It sounds more and more like you want to provoke a referendum by lashing out at the PQ. You may get what you wish for but I dont think you will be happy with the results. Things are pretty good right now for anglos..they could get a lot worse. "
DeleteHow are things pretty good for anglos? Is it me, or does that read like the typical Francophone threat of 'wait and see what we'll do if you resist'?
I'll be open. I hope we have a referendum, I'm even for open civil conflict. Whatever gets the tanks into Quebec City and rips Montreal from the hands of bigots and fascists. Like I've mentioned before, zero political representation is an unacceptable condition and no cost is too high to pay to gain a meaningful vote. You might enjoy your illusions complicated, but I'd rather have a ballot that means something and not one that I have to squander on one or another party that takes my tax dollars to use it to deprive me of my rights.
I don't see what your obsession with spending is. I hope they spend themselves into a hole with no end. I look forward to Quebecs complete economic subservience to Canada.
I hate to agree with you but I do - we just can't keep going the way we are and remain oblivious to all that is going on around us. What a shame that we can't seem to get people to realize that we are going to hell in a hand basket and it's time to fight back. And it won't be long before the complete economic subservience to Canada comes to be because none of these governments have even tried to stop the bleeding.
DeleteIf you really want to stem the language debate than there needs to be an active movement to make the province bilingual and reform the school the system. So ya know, students won't be feed PQ propaganda chowder.
DeleteI imagine if bill 101 was amended to include english and not be enforced so severely, if there wasn't really a differentiation of "english" and "french" schools and everyone graduated from anywhere fully bilingual, the language issue would render itself a moot point.
The only thing is that this change in mentality would take years as the older generation loses influence and the younger become neutral on the point of language. Although there are many who are bilingual but still harbour feelings of hate, so I guess it all has to start with getting rid of the PQ propaganda chowder.
ethnic - Are you for real? Your entire strategy to provoke essentially a war will just result in more misery for the anglophones community. This is more bravado from someone who has no clue of what he wishes for. One of the main reasons I keep commenting on this forum is to try to knock some sense into nutcases like you who are going to trigger a crisis in this province that in the end will further marginalize the anglophone community. Its very easy to come on here and talk tough but when all hell breaks loose not sure you and most people on tihs forum will be too happy with the results.
DeleteBTW, given that unions and sovereignists are all in bed together, here's a chance to hit one of their players legally: http://www.outragenadeaudubois.com/
ReplyDeleteGabriel Nadeau-Dubois is now in court and by donating to this site, you're helping pay his accusor's legal fees. If found guilty, this symbol of spoiled pseudo-socialist Quebec faces 1 year in prison or a $50K fine.
Problem with sending him to jail is that he'll get a free living for a year...but the nice part is, I doubt he'll be the same loud mouth we all know and can't stand.
@PartiCorruption
DeleteOn réclame la prison pour Nadeau-Dubois alors qu'Accurso et Tomassi gambade allégrement. #polqc
No CAQ government - they are separatists nonetheless!
ReplyDeleteIt should no longer be a debate between federalist and soverigntist parties. It makes no difference whatsoever. The issue was, and is, social, political and economic equality. The rest is garbage they feed us to make us feel like we're making a choice. Charest, in practice, is as much of a bigot and douche as Parizeau - they both defended policies that deprive us of our human rights. And it is an issue of human rights when a community is deprived of political representation and is targeted for forceful assimilation, deportation or a perpetual status of inferiority to a class identified by race and culture.
DeleteCustomer failed to get served in French at Colossus Laval
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cliqueduplateau.com/2012/09/27/service-a-la-clientele/
Better link :
ReplyDeleteIf you are not happy go to Guzzo
it's call capitalism, freedom of choice..Supply and demand.... I know it's a foreign concept to this Socialist paridiso...
DeleteDidn't know that capitalism was about alienating a large of your clientele.
DeleteHâte de voir la réaction de cinéplex,Y'a quelqu'un qui va perdre des clients...et son job.
DeleteIl a répondu de façon méprisante en globish en plus,à suivre
Les citoyens ont ouvert une page FB sur ce sujet.
Colossus Laval caters to both linguistic groups and is located in a predominantly English area. If a unilingual Francophone feels alienated it's most probably due to his/her poor language skills. Most likely, they're just appalled that the 'autres' would dare speak up to the pure race. I'm refused service in English all the time. Is my dollar worth less, or does my cultural background make me safe to alienate?
DeletePredominantly English area...Give me a break!
DeleteFrom wikipedia :
Laval is not quite as linguistically diverse as neighbouring Montreal. The 2006 census found that, counting both single and multiple responses, French was spoken as a mother tongue by 68.4% of the population, and was spoken most often at home by 73.8% of Laval residents.[10] Counting single responses only, the next most common mother tongues were English (6.9%), Italian (4.4%), Greek and Arabic (3.9% each), Spanish (2.2%) and Armenian (1.8%).
Colossus is in Chomedey. Chomedey is mostly ethnic - Greek, Jewish, Portuguese and Lebanese. Most of the businessess are owned by these ethnic groups, including the stores you shop at in Carrefour, the restaurants you frequent or order from, the garages you get your tire changes at and the gas stations you pump your gas in. Don't be a tool - I'm sure you know the difference between the areas. Further east in Laval, around des Laurentides, which incidentally is also largely ethnic run, the clientele is almost exclusively Francophone. I'm not sure the Guzzo there even shows any English films. I'd say we're fairly accomodating to Francophones with our business ventures despite the shit treatment we get from them.
DeleteEthnic doesn't equal English. I hope you are aware that Lebanese usually have French as a 2nd language. Same goes for Portugese. It's much easier from them to learn French than English.
DeleteFrancais est mon 3 langue, mais je respect quant meme.
You obviously don't travel across the Lachapelle very often. I personally don't respect any group that forces school closures on my community, employs a police force that fines me for speaking English, or seeks to make me unemployable if I don't answer the phone at work with a 'bonjour' instead of a 'hello'. I guess you've bought into being subservient. The saddest of conditions among allophones and anglophones is a young population brought up with Quebecois propaganda, belittling themselves to be eager beavers in service of those who've disenfranchised them and their parents these past forty years. All the more reason for an open and complete disobedience to 101 and the stormtroopers that feel they're entitled to more than any other Canadian, including stepping on the charter of rights and freedoms.
DeleteAnd by the way, in Montreal ethnic equals English, with very few exceptions. Italian immigrants picked up French as it was an easier transition but their children are trilingual and part of the Anglophone community. Even those that don't speak English identify as Canadians. By extension, that's an expression of having the freedom to chose the language they will speak or educate themselves in without having to fear their government, or be attacked on the street for speaking it as is the current Quebecois fashion.
DeleteHow dare those anglos insult us once again by daring to use English and serve the English community! We shall bully them into submission!
DeleteScrew the racist 'citoyens'. When a Francophone gets fined or fired for refusing service in English I'll accept the same for an anglophone. Eat shit SR - nobody in any ethnic neighbourhood gives a rats ass about you or your 101.
ReplyDeleteUne enquête est en cours,nous allons trouver ce sale petit morveux qui se cache comme rat.
ReplyDeletehttp://tvanouvelles.ca/lcn/infos/regional/montreal/archives/2012/09/20120927-143822.html
FROM ED BROWN
ReplyDeleteYa make sense Spence, education is the key. If we could just get more french children into english schools so they wouldn't be bogged down with propaganda and graduate with an open mind. Ed
"and graduate with an open mind"
DeleteJ'ai l'impression d'entendre un vendeur de voitures d'occasion nous vanter les mérites de l'honnêteté.
Ex-soccer pro in hot water over anti-Marois comments
DeleteFacebook rant dismissed Parti Quebecois voters as 'F--ken hillbillies in the north'
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/09/27/ex-soccer-pro-in-hot-water-over-anti-marois-comments
Ha ha ha ha! You get in trouble for being critical of that old bat Marois, careers are destroyed, arrests are made, but convicted terrorists like Mathieu Reale plant bombs and are never imprisoned. I'll give this to the sovereigntists: at times it can be downright embarassing to be Canadian.
DeleteI spend much of my time blaming Quebecers for the current situation in the province, but the reponsibility belongs to Ottawa in equal share.
Careers are destroyed? Maybe he destroyed his own career...
DeleteFrom S.R's article : The Impact released Grande in 2009 after he choked team captain and assistant coach Mauro Biello during a match.
I still protect his right to charectirize anyone he choses as a 'northern hillbilly', especially when the shoe fits so well. But even if it didn't, he's entitled to his opinion. If Parizeau can paint a bulls eye on anglophones and ethnics in public and not be reprimanded for hate speech and inciting violence, then it's a free for all as far as I'm concerned.
DeleteDave Santi is probably like the same troll that came on with 1 initial last name J.Trembley during the blog edition on Quebec voting day.
ReplyDeleteS.R - Thursday, September 27, 2012 10:12:00 PM EDT
ReplyDelete"Une enquête est en cours,nous allons trouver ce sale petit morveux qui se cache comme rat."
Holy crap - S.R really is a deluded, small-town hillbilly. Listen to that point of view: "We're going to lynch someone for sending a customer to the competition."
Editor, what are you waiting for? Drop the axe on this clown already. Mario Beaulieu has no place posting on this blog under the guise of a miserly little man from Sherbrooke.
Addendum - I believe I know S.R's identity. I'll be watching all his future posts carefully and match them up with his "doppelganger."
ReplyDeleteI know five hardcore anti-Anglo seppies in Sherbrooke (one in Bromptonville, another in Magog).
Tonight, S.R dropped what I consider a very definitive clue to his identity. Will keep you posted folks.
Just noticed that Editor deleted an entire thread between myself, Ethnic, Yannick, Cutie and a couple of others.
ReplyDeleteTopic: whether or not Anglo frustration is warranted. Why this was removed is beyond me.
No threats were made, only explanations.
Editor, this wasn't some exchange of petty barbs...if you start deleting threads like these, what's the point of participating in this discussion anymore?
I felt all parties brought insight into the discussion. If future discussions will be deleted at whim while anti-Anglos like S.R can keep posting what's the point?
If this blog truly is about the Anglo experience, why is one person choosing what that experience happens to be?