Friday, September 28, 2012

French versus English Volume 62

Complaints over Yom Kippur adjournment at Montreal City Hall.

Anie Samson..making mountains out of molehills
Now I'm not going to defend the closing down of the city Montreal council for a day to respect the most important of Jewish holidays, there are those who are for and those against and nobody is a racist based on that opinion.
There are but a few council members who are Jewish, but that being said, it is a tradition in Montreal dating back to Mayor Drapeau, who held that since Christianity is all-encompassing in Quebec, one day of respect for the significant Jewish population of the city was appropriate.
 Readers will remember that back in the day, there weren't many other religions represented in the city. 
Demographically speaking, there were a lot of Catholics, some Protestants and a few Jews.
Every other religion was completely marginal.

At any rate, council doesn't regularly meet on Wednesdays anyway, and Tuesday's session usually wraps up before five PM, so the accommodation not to extend Tuesday's session past sundown wasn't really that big a deal.
It was however too much for one member, Anie Samson of Vision Montreal, who complained that the decision to suspend council meeting for Yom Kippur was wrong because city council is a secular institution that shouldn't be subjected to religious considerations . Link
Asked to comment over the fact that council doesn't meet on Christmas or Easter, she replied that it is another matter completely because those days are statutory holidays.

And that readers is the essential debate over religious accommodation in Quebec and why it's hard to take these secularists seriously.
I'm not even going to insult the intelligence of readers by explaining why.

French receding in Ontario.

"....during this time, English continues to grow, even if immigration has injected a healthy dose of energy to the community. "In Ontario, the rate of anglicization is 40%  and is flirting with the 50% level among young adults, says noted statistician Charles Castonguay, a demographic expert on the Canadian Francophonie. You can open unilingual schools, colleges, and universities, if you want., but it is the  personal attitude that we haven't been successful in changing, unlike in Quebec." Link{Fr}
Note: just for some context, the 'expert' quoted in this article Charles Castonguay is a French language militant, who's work now focuses on the 'sky is falling' theory of French under attack.

Police issue 'BOLO' for serial stop sign defacer

Here is the most bizarre language story of the week.
 "An ardent defender of the French language in the borough of Lennoxville could pay a price for political activism, actions that are deemed criminal, by the police. On Monday, police in Sherbrooke released a photo of the individual who was committing mischief on unilingual anglophone stop signs, that had "STOP" printed on them on Clough and Lennox streets in  the Summer district of the city.
"Capitaine Quebec" affixed stickers bearing the image of a Quebec license plate with the inscription "LOI 101 - Je me Souviens" in a bilingual Sherbrooke district before leaving.  Link{fr}
Incidentally readers, there are two bones to pick with this story, the first being that the Quebec Ministry of Transport recognizes "STOP" as a French word and entirely legal on signs and the second is the creeping use of the word 'Anglophone' to describe signs that are supposedly in English.
For those in the media, I would hope that you needn't be reminded that signs are inanimate objects. 

Quebec Universities begging for students in France

 Francophone universities are so desperate for students that they have taken a road show to France in order to shill for students.
Quebec universities have arrived in Toulouse for the 2nd edition of the special day "Studying in Quebec." Objectives: Inform students applying for international mobility, foster relationships between Toulouse and Quebec universities and increase the two-way number of foreign students in French schools and Quebec.

Organized at the initiative
of the Conference of Rectors and Principals of Quebec Universities (CREPUQ), the day will allow candidates to achieve their mobility project and collect all the information needed to continue their education in Quebec:
Which university to choose? How to register? What budget? Link{fr}

Another teen attacked for speaking English.

"A St. Leonard Mother is outraged, after her 17 year old son was viciously attacked because he spoke English.
The family, who wishes to remain anonymous to protect themselves, says last Saturday following supper with visitors, five teenagers, cousins went for a walk.   Around the corner, near a park, a man between 18-20 began hassling them, hurling racist epitaphs their way.
In French that man said, "Ici a Quebec, il faut que tu parles Francais," or something like that, he went up to my son's face and my son just kind of put his hand to his chest and said please move back, in English" Read the story on CJAD
For a more complete version of the story, read Hugo Shebbeare's article, here.

Quebec Corruption 101

Nothing proves the old adage that a picture (or in this case a video) is worth a thousand words.
On Thursday, Quebecers were riveted by a short video shown at the Charbonneau Commission showing some of Quebec's biggest construction magnates making cash payments to Mafia big shots in a Montreal café, a known meeting place for one of Montreal's biggest crime families.

The video, shot secretly by the RCMP was nothing less than shocking, and served as conclusive proof of the link between the construction industry and the Mafia.

The inference is quite simple.
The Mafia controlled which company would be the lowest bidder and thus receive a government construction contract by fixing the bids, which would ultimately be 30% higher than what would be charged without the scheme.
Construction companies would split these contracts under the auspices and control of the Mafia and kickback money.
Pretty neat!
The video showed some of these construction bosses visiting Café Consenza and handing over wads of cash in a back room, some of which was stuffed into the socks of Nicolo Rizzuto Sr. before he left the building.
"Large amounts of cash — in one case up to $20,000 — were shown being pulled out of bags, counted, then stuffed into Rizzuto Sr.’s socks as the commissioners watched, dumbfounded.
“It must have been the end of the fiscal year,” Vecchio joked as tens of thousands of dollars were poured out onto the table in one tape." Read the story
But here readers is what nobody in the mainstream press, or perhaps even in the police don't understand;

This money is chickenfeed!

The police are all gaga over the 20k they saw being passed over to the Mafiosi, and while the video  is useful because a link is finally made between the mafia and the construction companies, it begs the real question;
Where is the real money?

The various governments, municipal and provincial spend billions on these construction projects and if just a small portion of the contracts are subject to fraud it would run into hundreds of millions of dollars in over payments.
If fact, Jacques Duchesneau, in his testimony before the Charbonneau Commission, testified that his anti-collusion task force had already made an impact to the tune of $347 million in lowered bids as companies dumped the bid-fixing.

So where is all the money, you can't very well stuff tens of millions of dollars down your pant leg?

Once again we are subject to smoke and mirrors. The hoopla over the video is but a distraction, entertaining but really just a sideshow.
The real question as to where the big money goes remains unanswered.

I'll be writing a post about this next week.
Maybe the RCMP should read it, they might learn a thing or two.

Founder of dies, leaving legacy of hate

The founder of, Bernard Frappier died last week leaving the website in the capable hands of other racists and haters.

While I don't usually comment negatively on the recently departed, the accolades thrown about by his admirers is nothing short of sickening.

Bernard Frappier was a racist who hated Anglophones in general and Jews in particular.
He was a defender of genocidal tyrants like Muammar Gaddafi and supported the murderous regime of Bashar Hafez al-Assad of Syria
My only hope is that his legacy be respected and the website continues to ground out racist garbage which serves only to discredit anything at all, published on the site.

Pauline Marois gets "Unliked' by Facebook

 Recently Facebook started removing bogus "LIKES" added to pages of certain people, companies and organizations which hired companies to use bots to create the phony appearance of being more popular than the truth.

A while back I wrote that Pauline Marois was guilty of just such an offence when she added thousands and thousand of 'likes' in a short period of time.

Here's a graph from Pauline Facebook page that attests to the changes.
Thanks to David, for pointing out the story.

BIXI crashing and burning

Driving downtown last week I couldn't help but notice that the BIXI bicycle stands were largely filled to capacity and that riders were few and far between.
I snapped this picture of a Bixi station near Concordia University which was so full, that one rider attached his bike to a parking meter.
I made a mental note, but forgot about the story until I read a story about the dire financial situation of the company running the system.

Read: Bixi company struggles with deficit
It has become clear the project is a financial disaster and will never come close to breaking even.

The company running the system is depending on foreign sales to prop up its finances which is really just a fancy Ponzi scheme, bringing in new suckers to pay off losses higher up the line.

New York City has put its plans to introduce the system on hold and they'd better redo the math before getting involved with this granola boondoggle.

Quebecers a happy bunch

 The happiest Canadians are 12 to 19 years old and Quebeckers, while the least satisfied are seniors, according to the report, based on an analysis of Statistics Canada data from 2003 to 2011.
Among the report’s other key findings:
  • Canadian teens are the most satisfied (96.9 per cent) and seniors, the least (89.1 per cent) – a growing gap that suggests a problem for policy makers, Mr. Sharpe said.
  • The happiest Canadians are in the Yukon, Quebec, Prince Edward Island and New Brunswick, while the least satisfied are in Manitoba, Northwest Territories, Ontario and Nunavut.
  • The largest increases in satisfaction levels between 2003 and 2011 were in Quebec and the Yukon.
  • Four of the five happiest cities are in Quebec – Quebec City, Gatineau, Trois-Rivières and Montreal.
  • Rural dwellers are generally happier than city dwellers.
Read the rest of the story

Quebec police strike again

"In what human rights activists are calling a landmark ruling, a south shore man has been cleared of the ticket he got in a case of "driving while black."
Brossard resident Joel Debellefeuille says he can't forget the day he was pulled over by two Longueuil police officers back in July 2009. On that day while driving with his wife and kids in his BMW in Greenfield Park, two officers pulled Debellefeuille over because they thought it was odd that a black man was driving a car registered to someone with a Québecois family name." Read the rest of the story
In another story, funny if not so sad, our Keystone Kops are also being sued for 42k by a Montrealer who was arrested last May during the students riots.
It seems that the Montreal police had cornered students demonstrating illegally and corralled them down a street with no escape.
Some of the demonstrators jumped onto a restaurant terrace and were followed by police who arrested everyone who was not seated at a table.
One of the arrested, Dominique Dion, proclaimed his innocence to no avail and ended up in  jail with everyone else.
Who was the poor shlub? The owner of the restaurant! Link{fr}

English taking over?

The foundation of the CHUM, Montreal's new French super hospital announced an ambitious fundraising campaign which even included an English section to the web site. I guess when these organizations want Anglo money, bilingualism is no longer an issue.
That being said, I can't say I'm impressed with the English translation of patient testimonial.
I dunno, you be the judge. 

Louis Saint-Pierre

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Aenean quis nunc sapien, quis eleifend libero. Aenean imperdiet mauris ut nisi pellentesque blandit. Nunc lobortis ligula at augue sodales sed ornare nibh interdum. Praesent tincidunt scelerisque ante, ut ultrices purus viverra ac. Donec non magna quis odio euismod tincidunt a sit amet dolor. Donec blandit sem eget velit sagittis non hendrerit arcu fringilla. Nullam velit leo, condimentum vitae, eleifend sed velit.

Sophie Fauteux

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Aenean quis nunc sapien, quis eleifend libero. Aenean imperdiet mauris ut nisi pellentesque blandit. Nunc lobortis ligula at augue sodales sed ornare nibh interdum. Praesent tincidunt scelerisque ante, ut ultrices purus viverra ac. Donec non magna quis odio euismod tincidunt a sit amet dolor. Donec blandit sem eget velit sagittis non hendrerit arcu fringilla. Nullam velit leo, condimentum vitae, eleifend sed velit. Link

Here's another embarrassment, the utter uselessness of some on-air French taking heads who cannot pronounce nary a word in English. Yech!......

And now to finish off the week with a little foolishness;

One of our readers sent in this pic,which he snapped close to home;

Here's a good yuck....

BTW, Note to readers;
I've been told reliably that the CAQ is in the hole for 400k after the election, so despite all the posturing, they aren't in a position to fight a new election.
That being said, the PQ is also broke, but not the Liberals.... go figure!

Anyways,  sometimes, just sometimes, even I have to admit that unilingual English signs can be offensive.

For your reading pleasure;

One of our readers, Kevin Duska (I publish his name only because it is attached to the story) sent me a link to a story he wrote for, not exactly one of my favourite websites.

That being said, it's a good weekend read and I'm happy to oblige with a plug.

When a spade is truly a spade: The PQ's xenophobia in a throwaway election for progressive federalists

Here's another;
Susan Schwartz: Try as I might, the language barrier is perplexing

To all the Frenchies and têtes carrées, please have a good weekend!!!


  1. No need to be apologetic about having nothing nice to say about Vigile's founder dying.

    Unfortunately, you undersold just how partial some "leading names" are to this website.

    Bernard Landry for instance has donated hundreds of dollars in support, which is why this site bothers me so much.

    If the average demographic was nothing more than the welfare alcoholics that make up the Jeunes Patriotes, I wouldn't have a hint of worry.

    But when former heads of state are funding this effort...

    BTW, that stop sign guy might just be our little S.R at work.

    1. S.R for street STOP signs REMOVER


    2. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  2. Why would a French student up sticks and spend thousands of dollars in tuition fees and living expenses to study in Quebec, when most degree courses in France cost only a few hundred euros in fees?



    Editor, I'm beginning to agree with your take on Jean Charest. I'm disgusted by the way he left the party at a time when they needed him, perhaps the most. I don't know if the interim leader has the power to talk to Legault but someone should. Legault is too power mad to sit back in third place. The fact that he formed his own party shows he wants to lead. As I've already mentioned if he teams up with Marois we are in deep doodoo. He only needs 9 members to go with him. Even without Ducheneau and a few others who may not agree. As I've stated before she would accept him to get a majority and he knows that they would soon kick her out to have his experience as leader. He would be premier with a majority. That's a strong temptation. Charest could have have stayed until they elected a leader. Ed

    1. Legault will never team up with the PQ. The CAQ are the most right wing party in Quebec and the PQ is far to the left. Legault has been criticizing all of the PQs policies daily over the past few weeks. He wants to win in the next election.

    2. CAQ will team up with PQ, so that some of their ideas would get looked at, maybe passed, and then have something to show to their electorate. You keep mentioning a new election in spring. Ain't gonna happen, IMO. CAQ is two-faced and PLQ is without a leader. PQ is in for at least 2 years, I think, which means they can screw up big time. They already started well.

    3. Complicated: Take heed of what TS has written. I don't know if what TS writes will manifest exactly that way, but do realize that politics does make strange bed fellows!

    4. Well, I am no expert in politics, but that's what my common sense tells me. Of course I can be wrong, but one cannot force an election THAT fast, especially after the emotional whirlwind from the past August.

      Which is why I am wrapping up things here and I am off.

      And off to a tangent... since I (finally) decided that I am leaving, and can actually think about Qc without any emotional attachment, I honestly think the best scenario, for everyone involved, would be a 'separation with partition'. The separatists would get their own country where they can run it into the socialist ground as fast as they please, and Montreal and any adjacent territory wishing to do so can form a new fully-bilingual province.

  4. Re: Bixi. We need to stop thinking of Bixi as something that needs to make a profit and instead think of it as another form of public transit, which is ultimately what it is. Transit is always heavily subsidized, so why is it abhorrent to some people to think of Bixi as something that can be subsidized as well? Without Bixi in place the STM would be even more crowded than it already is and we would have to subsidize increased bus and metro service instead. It's really just another place to put the same money.

    Did you drive by these stations just before the afternoon rush hour? Bixi stocks the downtown stations with bikes before the afternoon rush so if you drive by again at 8 or 9 pm these stations will be largely empty as people will have rode the bikes out to where they live.

    Finally, just to be pedantic... the bike locked to the parking meter is not a Bixi bike, though it does look similar.

      MH ' That's very clear thinking on the BIXI. Although I'm too old to ride now at 76, I have wondered how popular the bikes would be in winter. Will they be used at all or would snow be a problem? Ed
      EDITOR A comment from me on your happiest and grouchiest (my word) people. They say that young people are most happy and elderly the least. Probably true, because it's the young we're not happy about. Ed

    2. @MH
      We all wanted BIXI to work, it just doesn't.
      This year each BIXI bike created a $500 loss, that's quite subsidy.
      That means that the city could have given away about 4,000 bikes to the public and called it a day.

      Realistically, BIXI doesn't take buses off the road, the impact is too small and as a integral part of a transportation system it is a negative rather than a positive.

      BIXI is a luxury for granolas, subsidized by the working shlubs.

    3. Editor,

      I hope that my e-mail to you regarding BIXI does not go to the Junk folder.

    4. The founder of BIXI is a separatist so it's not surprising that his project is in the process of going bankrupt.

  5. Thanks for the Plug Editor, our Press Release has now officially made National Media, and CBC, CTV, Gazoo are next. Here is the spread so far:
    Barbara says that the Press release was the inspiration. She referred to the hospital incident as illuminating but since the woman could have been crazy couldn't write it up without a corroborating incident, which "Mr G" provided. She thanked me for the links:

    As spokesperson, I’d like to share the incident as it made the Suburban, CJAD, CNN (ireport), from our Press releases (il est traduit en français aussi ! ):

    More Press:
    Teen Assaulted for Speaking English

    Suburban has picked it up (CBC, CTV soon as victim is ready for interviews)
    Page 3

    CNN I report user submission also:

    1. Hugo: I checked out the first portal link with Barbara Kay's commentary in the National Post. In the comments section, here is a joke placed by a contributor (hilarious):

      "A man from Quebec and a man from Ontario were walking on the beach when they found a bottle with a genie in it who gave them each a wish. The one from Quebec said I wish for the whole province of Quebec be surrounded by a 50 foot brick wall to keep it pristine from the anglos and ethnics. The man from Ontario said, for my wish please fill it with water."

      The contributor's words, not mine, but I heartily share the sentiments of the Ontario man.

  6. M. Bernard Frappier was a defender of genocidal tyrants like Muammar Gaddafi and supported the murderous regime of Bashar Hafez al-Assad of Syria. This has been said often enough that it has become the truth. There is no point arguing about it since it is now a fact taken for granted. Out of curiosity, what makes you say that he supported those tyrans?

    I find Vigile as interesting as No Dogs or Anglophones. There is, of course, good and bad stuff published at Through Vigile, I discovered René Marcel Sauvé, a remarkably intelligent author and I thank Mr Frappier for this discovery.,328_?debut_articles=120#pagination_articles

  7. Mr. Frappier published countless stories supporting the Syrian regime. Go to's search box and type in 'syrie' or 'assad' to see what stories come up. 99% supportive of the regime.

    Same thing for Israel, 100% negative.
    Same thing for 'Jews' 100% negative ( and often outright racist)

    I agree with what you said about a lot of good writers mixed up with the trash.
    That's why I encourage vigile to keep publishing crap so as to remain irrelevant

  8. The press is realizing what a lot of us are now realizing - these incidents will not end unless we start fighting back and stop letting these bigots tell us what language we can speak, even in public - are we just going to sit back and let this happen over and over or are we going to take action in any way we can to stand up for our rights as Canadians in this province? Enough is enough - read: Start by supporting this lady's comment in the National Post and e-mail every politician that represents you in Quebec and Federally.

    1. Cutie: What I did yesterday is send NBC and Fox a synopsis of Quebec since 1759 when General Wolfe defeated General Montcalm on the Plains of Abraham, from La revanche des berceaux (The Revenge of the Cradles) to the tyranny of the Roman Catholic Church and the false doctrines they fed the French Speaking parishioners for 200 years, to the Quiet Revolution when the doctrines were dropped, to the rise of Quebec nationalism, the rise to power of the PQ to the legislative attempts at ethnic cleansing. CBS and ABC are harder to reach because their websites only allow 500 to 3000 alphanumeric characters. I believe if enough of us write the network news programs in the U.S., one of them will pick it up, but it's going to take lots 'n' lots 'n' lots 'n' lotsa news suggestions sent to the American networks where hopefully the ugliness going on in Quebec will finally catch the networks, and they'll perhaps do a feature like 60 Minutes did, but that was back in 1998 and you didn't have the ugliness now manifesting under a Pauline Marois government.

      The result of the 1998 War of Words feature on 60 Minutes put the fanatics into a complete frenzy. Former Bourassa cabinet minister Jean Cournoyer had a popular phone-in radio program back in those days. The fury, the rabid anti-Semitism that flooded the airwaves was so vile that Cournoyer had to interrupt his program for about ten minutes to address the listeners and cool down the impudent rhetoric. Cournoyer mentioned he had Jewish friends and they were not the rabid innuendos some of the callers were insinuating. What probably started the anti-Semitic vitriol was how Mordechai Richler, who reminisced with Morley Safer in the piece, discussed how an overzealous language cop confiscated a whole shipment of kosher matzo, i.e., unleavened bread, the most essential food Jews eat during the holy observance of Passover for eight days, because the boxes of matzo were only in English and Hebrew.

      The fury and fallout this caused adequately embarrassed the government to put an exception in Bill 101 where for 65 days a year (i.e., the 45 days before Passover and the 20 days following) an exemption would be granted. Richler then embellished the humiliation by fictitiously stating if you eat matzo on the 66th day, it's an illegal substance!

      What I'd like to do is have the Editor publish it as part of his blog and include all the portal links I could find. If anybody has direct portal links to ABC, please post them or better still, have the Editor do so. In the meantime. Put a story together and get ready to post it.

    2. Mr. Sauga: I've had a thought. Have you ever seen the 1989 film "Roger & Me"? I'm betting you have, but if not, it's an interesting documentary film Micheal Moore produced on the rise and fall of Flint, Michigan, as a direct result of GM and plant closings. And of course the resulting fall out, decay and bizarre events (major embarrassments to the city and country) that followed. Re-watching it in recent years, I cannot help but draw similar parallels between Montreal and Flint.

      I've always wondered if Michael Moore wouldn't be interested in doing a documentary film on Montreal/Quebec, showing how it went from the gem of North America to a backwater cease pool on a cause of nationalism and the PQ. Or just showing some of the ridiculousness that has gone on the past 40 years.

      I heard 60 Minutes is planning to do a follow-up Quebec story, but that would be nothing compared to a 2 hour film. Imagine, finally exposing all of Quebec's dirty little secrets to the rest of the world. And what better way to do it than internationally on the big screen!

    3. Apple IIGS: Interestingly, I'm going to a friend's house next week for a social engagement. His cousin is a documentary/film maker, so I'll put that suggestion to him...or her, if she comes to the gathering. I don't know if it's a theme she'd want to tackle, but you never know.

  9. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    1. Pour ma part, ce qui m'agace franchement c'est d'entendre parler anglais lorsque je suis en train de manger.

      À chaque fois que je vais au restaurant, je donne un généreux pourboire au placier pour qu'il ne mette pas d'anglos à proximité de ma table.

    2. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    3. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    4. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    5. Editor, you missed the first two comments that lead to this. Might want to take those down too. Besides, they both came from S.R

  10. I indeed looked at Vigile's archive about Syria. I don't have the patience not the will to read it all since I find the lybian and syrian topics quite uninteresting. I scrolled through the four first articles. They look more to me like articles denoncing the evil manipulations of the western world in general and of the big bad and evil USA in particular. Usual stuff in the "presse alternative".

    I tried "assad" in the search box. First result : an article about chief of french diplomacy Laurent Fabius stating that "M. Bachar el-Assad ne mériterait pas d’être sur la terre" and that Assad was accomplishing a "opération de destruction d’un peuple". I perhaps stumbled out of luck on the 1% story opposing the regime...

    "That's why I encourage vigile to keep publishing crap so as to remain irrelevant"

    Sorry, I don't get this one, I might be losing something in the translation... : ) Should I understand this as "I encourage vigile to keep publishing crap as much as I encourage Vigile to remain irrelevant" or "I encourage vigile to keep publishing crap in order to remain irrelevant"?

    : )

    1. "That's why I encourage vigile to keep publishing crap 'so as' to remain irrelevant"

      I encourage vigile to keep publishing crap 'in order' to remain irrelevant"?

      Means the same thing.

    2. Vigile and the sovereigntist movement as a whole, role play as anti imperialists, failing to notice French attrocities and colonialism from Africa to Indochina and North America. They'll always buy into the 'international jewry' conspiracy as well. Thinly disguised racism needs a reason for it's existence. It's the 'knife in the back' syndrome Germans acquired after the loss of WWI. All the ubers need an excuse for their failures, and it tends to be the role of the victim begging for sympathy and washing away its low life actions as necessary for survival.
      Sovereigntists are misguided enough to accord themselves heroic status, standing against globalization - what they're really pissed off about is that it's someone other than themselves that may be the mover and the shaker. Like an impotent old man barking morality to the sexual active just because he can't participate.

    3. What in the seven layers of hell does the atrocities of the French in Africa have to do with us, seriously? Are we going to start a contest, stack up bodies against each other, whoever has the least body is part of the less terrible narrative?

      You remind me of those religious and atheists who like to blame every war on each other. You give me a Crusades, I answer with a Pol Pot.

    4. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    5. Ha ha ha! But it is you Yannick! Every time you feel like you've been colonized or victimized at the hands of unscrupulous imperialists just remember that the presence of French in Quebec is part of the very same imperialist culture that brought French to Africa, the Middle East and Indochina. You are not an indigenous population, as you well know. You are not the victims of imperialism or colonialism. You are imperialists that have the misfortune of being in a part of the world where your international meddling and domination of the idigenous was not as much of a 'success' as it was in Africa. It could've been worse - you could've been in Vietnam having your asses kicked by the Vietnamese. Then again, much worse would've been waking up as an indigenous Canadian watching white Europeans usurping your historical and daily experience to achieve their political ends and further carve up your land.

    6. It's an interesting narrative that you propose. Most North American countries believe themselves to have suffered from imperialism even if they themselves were the descendents of such imperialists. I believe you are conflating the Canadian/Acadian descendants of the original French colonists with the French, which is about as absurd as conflating the Spanish with the Mexicans. I don't really see what it has to do with us, in any case. Even if you pretend that Canadians and Acadians were not already diverting from French colonial interests prior to the conquest, surely after the conquest our destinies were entirely separate.

      So yes, I do believe that it's totally legit for Acadians/Quebecers to feel colonized and victimized, at the hands of the French then later at the hands of the British, and arguably at the hands of Canada prior to 1967. Just as legit as Latin America or the US prior to their independance wars.

    7. Whether they stepped off the imperialist train or not is irrelevant. They found themselves here in that capacity. They subjugated the land, converted the indigenous cultures to their religion and sought to build a European country in their new settlement. The French and the English are two faces of the same coin. Only that everywhere else in Canada the past has remained in its appropriate place and with the changing face of Canada, multiculturalism, tolerance and respect replaced old colonialist attitudes that were anchored in the concepts of white mans burden and divine responsibility to shed 'light' on new territories. Everywhere except Quebec, where colonialism is alive and well with coercive assimilation and the deportation of unwanted populations under the threat of violence and the removal of equal status socially and politically.
      Quebec has nothing in common with Latin America or any other place where liberation struggles take place. Quebec is in fact, the opposite - it's the local power that needs to be overthrown, that makes zapatistas out of ordinary people trying to live their lives under the scope of a pure race constantly trying to mold them and always finding them unacceptable.
      What happened in the past does not excuse your present. If in fact you feel like a vicitm, you should find the ghetto existence, the violence, the threats, the laws and the political situation loathsome.

  11. TO be honest, I hope Assad survives because the alternative to Assad will be an Al Quida regime. Look at whats happening to Egypt and Libya. Gunboat democracy I guess....

  12. When both sides are shouting Allah Akbar before going into battle, all I can hope for is a war that lasts forever.


  13. I just "commented" on Barbara Kay's article in the National Post (sorry - it was mentioned previously by the leader of the Quebec Office of the English Language before I mentioned it again - overlap) - everyone should contribute their opinion to the National Post also. The more we support these people, the more public attention we will garner! This is not acceptable behaviour by these bigots.

  14. Editor

    Assad is from the minority Allawaite group, which is about 14% of the population. Along with the Druze and christians, the non Sunni population would be 25%. Kurds are about 9% of the population and most of them probably know their interests are better off with Assad. So while Assad has only the full support of 18% of Druze and allawaite population he probably has unofficial support of 27% of the rest, Kurds, Christians, and a minority of Sunnis. He does not have the cannon fodder that the neighbouring sunni arabs and foreign fighters have. Though the Syrian armies and militias are alot better trained, skilled and organized, their numbers are not that great. Assad is trying to completely crush the rebels because he knows his minority can't last a long war of endurance.

    Also Syria is alot more closer to the west in lifestyle under assad. Therefore I think its better that assad crushes the insurgency because Syria under him would still be on the defensive from all the neighbours.

    So even if Assad wins it would just be a lull until the next conflict. Thats why I have no idea why Nato would want to get rid of him.

  15. Stephen Jarislowsky has an interesting column on the Comment page of today's Globe

    1. Excellent article..sums it up beautifully. The economic decline of Montreal over the past 40 years is just pathetic. The PQ could have handled things so much better while still supporting the french language. I used to live in Calgary and the attitude there and here are night and day. Calgary worked very hard to attract talented people and companies to their city..the effort is there..their success is not just because of oil. There is a real can-do positive attitude. Here in Montreal its incredible how poor the general attitude of many people are..worst customer service I have ever seen..and the level of corruption is unbelievable. I had heard stories of Montreal before I moved here but never imagined it could be so bad.

    2. Diogenes,

      And somebody francophone has written a rebuttal for Jarislowsky's column in Le Devoir.

    3. Troy, I usually try to keep my language clean but this time....did you see the bullshit response from Raymond Saint-Arnaud?, She ends with this jewel:

      OUI au Cégep en français.

      NON au surfinancement du réseau anglophone au TRIPLE de : leur pourcentage de population.

      Qu’on se le dise : "Au Québec, c’est en français que ça se passe."

    4. *he

      I almost forgot to mention, the title of this piece of BS is...drumbeat...

      Cultural Genocide


  16. PQ is the most racist government in North America since George Wallace in Alabama.

    1. I'll go along with that! If the goings-on in Quebec go unchecked, it could escalate into what eventually happened in the former Yugoslavia. Hearing Jean-François Lisée discuss "corrective action" on the night of the election on CTV News certainly makes ME wonder...

  17. With these attacks on anglophones and allophones, where is the PQ party standing up and saying that this behaviour is not acceptable? Where is the outcry by any of our politicians? Come on guys - get your act together and start standing up for the minorities in this province. Provincial and Federal parties should be taking action with regard to these attacks and I haven't seen any outrage by anyone yet! Start acting like you're responsible citizens and publicize you're distress at these actions!

    1. If enough attacks happen then I think you will hear something. But I wouldnt be holding my breath. These incidents are pretty isolated and similar incidents have likely been going on for years with little media coverage. The media can turn anything into a mountain if the mood is right. I havent heard or seen any noticeable increase in anglo-franco tensions in the west island. Time will tell but its sure that the PQ loves this turmoil..they want the two sides to go at each other..lets not fall into their trap.

    2. Then again, if we go at each other, then the rest of Canada might get a real view of the province they subsidize and give Quebec a well deserved boot right out of the federation. Why should Canadian companies outsource jobs when we can have third world salaries right here in Quebec?
      The PQ do not want an escalation. They're busy playing victim and they cultivate the image very carefully while they commit ethnocide within Quebec.

    3. Right on Ethnic - complicated will never get a response from me ever again - he is a big part of the problem we have here in this province and I wish people like him/her would leave the rest of us to deal with these problems in a REALISTIC way!

    4. @ethnic et ses clowns..Heu..clones

      Une simple question : Que faites-vous au Québec,pourquoi vivre ici au sein de notre Nation si vous la détestez à ce point?

    5. complicated repeats the same old arguments always with the ever present threat of how much worse it can be made for us. It's a limp threat from a limp movement. Go ahead, make it worse. As far as I'm concerned, there is no worse than not having a meaningful vote. I will disobey 101 and live as a unilingual anglophone no matter what. This is my Quebec as much as anyone elses, and my version is multilingual and free - just try and stop me.

    6. I'm Canadian SR. Born in Montreal. I'm staying and I will keep my identity. I will fight you on the websites, in a court or on the streets if need be. Whatever it takes to claim my rights. I have zero respect for anything you represent. The days of cowering anglos in Hampstead while the bombs went off are dead and gone.

    7. "I will disobey 101..."

      Si vous êtes si brave et voulez vous battre,vous pourriez peut-être nous faire part du nom de votre commerce.À moins que vous vous cachiez dans un sous-sol miteux.

      "I have zero respect for anything you represent."

      Rien de nouveau et c'est très réciproque.

    8. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    9. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    10. Again, be like I say or else! Threats, intimidation, bullying.

    11. Considering that we own all the clubs and restaurants you frequent in Montreal SR, you should chose your words more carefully. I suspect that with an attitude like yours, you've already been served every kind of 'extra ingredient' out there. There's a little ethnic in you after all ;).

    12. WE, WE, WE, US, US against THEM.

      It's funny how you are basically using the PQ's rhetoric...

    13. I agree, Guillaume. I have to say that part of my inability to entirely empathize with the anglophone community on this website is this : it's a bit hard to accept the narrative that Francos are the arrogant/racist/nazi/fascist/etc... when so many of the people who portray that situation seem to end their thought with a "... but the French are wrong, it's totally US that are the superior ones!"

    14. "I will disobey 101 and live as a unilingual anglophone no matter what. This is my Quebec as much as anyone elses, and my version is multilingual and free - just try and stop me"

      Ethnic you know, I support everything in English in Montreal (and I am not even an Anglophone), I support the learning of English, I proudly live in an anglophone environment, I live/work/cook/read/dream and so on in English, but...I dislike unilingual people regardless of being English, French, Russian, Chinese, Italian and so on.
      Maybe you should make the effort to learn another language, which is not necessarily French (frankly speaking, learn something more productive and phonetically gentler than joual...).
      Be proud of being Anglophone, but, please, do NOT be proud of being unilingual.

    15. WA, I'm fully trilingual. I will just no longer allow myself to be coerced into speaking a language that seeks to forcibly assimilate me. What Yannick and Guillaume are missing in this is that it's a reaction to forty years of belittling policies enforced on us by Francophones. Forty years of being an 'autre' without political representation. Decades of school closures and the fear of having your hard earned money syphoned out for criminal activities such as beer coasters that aren't French.
      I suppose the analogy to Germany might work better for them if we all rolled over and allowed ourselves to be disenfranchised and victimized in silence.
      I will continue to demand to be treated as an equal and that will include a political party that represents the interests of my community and official bilingual status. Until then, I will assert myself as a Canadian and ignore 101. If I've lived my life with enough respect to switch between languages with different people, then I will have the same expectation of them. Respect and understanding are not a one way street. The way out of a bullying situation is not a sprint to the teachers staff room - it's a swift kick to the balls.

    16. Perfect! The ideal Canadian citizen!
      As far as it concerns "to be treated as an equal", in this province you MUST fight against a trivial mentality, according to which the ideal citizen is unilingual because proud of his own officially unilingual place and the more languages you speak, the higher the sense of betrayal against the province. That's why non-Québécois outperform Québécois at school (and at work too). This mentality does not exist in Europe. On the contrary, in many countries (Scandinavian ones, Germany, Austria, Italy and so on) you are frowned upon if unilingual or proud of it. Not only that: you are highly encouraged to learn as many languages as possible and take university courses in English. In many German universities, some courses are in English ONLY and you are expected to speak it properly with NO excuses. The final exam is in English and the mentality "here we speak German only" does NOT work. No English = No exam = No future

    17. Yannique and Guillaume,

      "WE, WE, WE, US, US against THEM."

      This is a blog about the Anglophone experience in Quebec and most of the comments are from Anglos. Why shouldn't we use the terms 'US' or 'WE' to refer to ourselves, for Christ's sake?!

      "'s a bit hard to accept the narrative that Francos are the arrogant/racist/nazi/fascist/etc... when so many of the people who portray that situation seem to end their thought with a "... but the French are wrong, it's totally US that are the superior ones!"

      Who said that we're (excuse me for using the term) superior? It's just that we're not the group that has passed, or plans to pass, draconian legislation that restricts or bans the personal, occupational, linguistic and religious freedoms of others. There also hasn't been much in the news lately of Anglos verbally or physically attacking Francophones in the streets for speaking their language.

    18. Yes, when I say "we" it is encompassing the people I'm addressing on the Blog and fellow Canadians. Why is it that these people, meaning "Yannick, complicated, Guillaume" never, ever talk about the fact that our RIGHTS AS CANADIANS HAVE BEEN TRAMPLED TO DEATH BY THESE SEPARATISTS! In the name of "protection" of the french language - they have still removed the rights of the citizens of this province in this country of CANADA. What gives them the "right" to do this? They make up laws to suit themselves and we are supposed to be happy to live by them even if we find them offensive. Well, no more guys! I've had it and I hope to hell all my fellow CANADIANS have had it too. Stuff your Bill 101 and stuff your nasty, bitter, never ending battle with anyone other than your pur laine selves!

    19. @Durham 100% agreement on my part.

      Guillaume, Yannick - you are missing out on the perspective by the simple fact that neither of you are living the reality.

      Yannick, you do not even live in Quebec or the city of Montreal. Why would you judge Ethnic for taking the stance against S.R that he has? Some of us have ethics, Yannick. I'm actually perfectly bilingual myself, but like Ethnic, I will not allow a sub-prime after-birth like S.R tell me how to speak because he can't be bothered to see past his very limited borders.

      Guillaume, if you find certain attitudes here hypocritical in lieu of criticism to PQ policy, try going elsewhere in Canada. Guess what - there are shitloads of Francophones living in other parts of Canada (I'm not bullshitting you, it's actually true).

      Know what? None of these Francophones seem even remotely hostile to their predominantly Anglo-hosts.


      Because no one fucking picks on them and constantly comes looking for a fight. When such is the case, how can you not expect bitterness and hostility?

      If I kept pecking away at you and deliberately kept trying to make your fucking life hard when I know there really is no good reason whatsoever to do so, wouldn't it be natural for you to eventually lose your temper and finally lash out?

      I think I answered my own question.

    20. "Why would you judge Ethnic for taking the stance against S.R that he has? Some of us have ethics, Yannick. I'm actually perfectly bilingual myself, but like Ethnic, I will not allow a sub-prime after-birth like S.R tell me how to speak because he can't be bothered to see past his very limited borders."

      I wouldn't dream that you would suffer to be told to live by bigots. But people lose a lot of my sympathy when they take their righteous anger and waste it by replying to racism with racism. It makes it seem like there are no good guys, just two racists, one of whom is upset because he's not on top of the other racist.

      Sure, I'm just some misguided outsider, but I can't help but think that if it hurts your cause with me, it'll hurt your cause with others.

    21. How am I a racist Yannick?! By refusing to serve someone that demands to be spoken to in French because it's the law? Is it by asserting myself and chosing to live free of draconian linguistic measures despite the consequences that have cost me thousands and thousands in fines and vandalism?
      Is it by denying your claim to Quebec as French God given territory to be homogenized in the image and the culture of French imperialists that were incapable of holding onto it?
      I'm not trying to gain your sympathy. I'm not looking for francophone supporters either. They all watched this happen for forty years in silence, acceptance and for many, relish. Unlike the Quebecois arguments that try to draw pity and understanding, I'm asserting myself. I'm standing at the top of my mountain and screaming 'Go fuck yourselves!!! No more! No more intimidation! No more bombs, beatings, fines, political brow beating and the cultivation of fear to attain political ends. No more worthless ballots, no more 'autre' status!'
      You've been whining for Quebecois sympathy for so long with insincere arguments that you are not capable of recognizing what it is that I'm expressing - honest anger. I will not conform and your insinuation to racism is a cheap tactic at silencing dissention. I don't care how the solution comes about. All I care about is equality in my lifetime! Whether it's by ballot or the bat, Canadian tanks or a sudden change of heart in Quebecers, is entirely irrelevant to me at this point. I will not be beneath anyone. I will not measure my letters to be so precisely smaller than yours. I will not accomodate SR or anyone like him, and the next time I receive a threat I will most likely respond as if my life is in danger.
      If that makes me a racist, then I'll tattoo the epithet on my forehead!

    22. I'm not interested in a negotiation to attain a political voice. It's an inherrent right for EVERY Canadian. I'm not seeking further accomodation from Quebecers that think I dont belong here, nor do I want them to throw me a bone. I'm therefore not seeking your sympathy. I'm rebelling against your system of white glove repression. SR, or any such individual that seeks my submission at the expense of my natural rights as a human being in this country is my enemy. It's not an enmity I cultivated, but one that was forced on me by individuals such as yourself that believe that your rights and identity are superior to mine. My parents built this home. We built our business with blood, sweat and tears. I will fight for this home, for my rights and the rights of my children by any means necessary. I'll face any SR on any street and defy any Marois and repressive, bigoted measures she tries to impose on me.

    23. I wasn't specifically refering to you ethnic, just the standard generalizations going around this site and elsewhere about Quebecers being lazy, intolerant, arrogant, thieves, on B.S., etcs...

      Be honest. If you can't take a statement and replace a word, say, "seppie", with another, say, "black", without it sounding racist, then it's probably kind of racist.

      But you do what you want, and I wish the best of luck to you.

    24. Considering the situation in Quebec it's reasonably acceptable to attach generalizations such as arrogant, intolerant, bigots, and corrupt as well as a few others I'll refrain from using. When you show me a population that treats its minorities as equals, or a minority enclave anywhere outside the safe numbers we have in and around Montreal, I might reconsider my opinions. When a political party with large support from the Quebecois electorate pushes for the end of government organizations such as the OLF and douchebags such as Parizeau are held accountable for inciting hate, I might think of changing my opinion of generally being surrounded by bigots.
      When the police and judicial system make fascist organizations such as the militia, the jeunes patriotes and the reseau illegal since all they do is peddle hate propaganda and present themselves on Montreal streets as a threat to my community, I will no doubt have a better opinion of my neighbours.
      Since none of that has ever happened in this province and since the examples of intolerance, bigotry and hate are practically infinite , I doubt I'll be changing my mind any time soon. Maybe you should be spending more time talking to the Reseau, the Patriotes and the rest of the goosestepping heels that exmplify modern Quebec instead of preaching tolerance and respect to those that've been denied all this for half a century.

    25. Yannick if you see a problem with use of the term "seppie," let me assure you the problem lies with you and not the Anglophones and Allophones on this blog.

      See, I'm alomost positive you'd never stick up for the KKK if we were constantly referring to them as "Honkies" and "dumb-ass crackers" now would you?

      Of course not. Because everything the KKK stands for is vile and reprehensible. No one would ever dare fault a black man for taking a swing at some moron dressed in the white sheets and pointy hat.

      There is a reason for that.

      See, if the seppies (like ethnic, I won't back down on this point either), TRULY believed that "we can all get along and we can all work together towards a common goal" then why are they separatists?

      Surely, a group of people who genuinely feel that constructive solutions between to different groups of people can be reached in a harmonious climate would feel no need to promote a seclusionist agenda, right?

      Yet that's not the case. I'll borrow from Ethinc and say that by regurgitating that "common goal" and "constructive collaboration" rhetoric, the PQ and its pool of seppies is merely practicing "white glove racism."

      No white sheets, no white pointy hat, just the white glove.

      They leave all the dirty work to the glue-sniffing dirt bags in their camp (RE: RRQ, Jeunes Patriotes). In fact, I know of one former poster here who pummeled the shit out of one of the JPs.

      Some one this board might cringe at the thought of his violent act until they hear what brought on the violence - a member of the JP (in his early twenties and very able-bodied) started pushing around an old Anglophone man in his late 70s.

      Personally, I would have done the same. And I don't consider myself violent. If I'm minding my own business and causing no one any harm or hardship, why should anyone in the world walk up to me and start causing me trouble?

      Yet, that's the problem Yannick. This happens in Quebec A LOT, but since you do not live here, you don't know what it's like. I presume that when you're in the streets (with the exception of your present city) you'll speak French before other languages. So therefore you're twice removed from the issue.

      I speak perfect French (no accent). Francophones would never guess I speak perfect English without an accent either. Yet, if I'm speaking English in public, guess what has happened from time to time.

      So before you dismiss anyone here as an "angryphone" or a "counter racist" why don't you come down here and live the reality of some of these people? If you can speak English without an accent, I challenge you to wander around St.Henri or the Hooch with two or three Anglo friends and talk English amongst yourselves in the streets.

      Believe me my friend, it will not be long before a group of runty little S.R clones start "putting you in your place" and reminding you of "what country your in."



    26. For sure Geronimo - If Yannink still resided in this damn province he would not be so quick to support the separatists - it's OK to do that if you're removed from the emotional side of this argument. I'm not letting anyone walk over me again and I will speak the language I chose wherever I chose. Wait until some tourist from the US gets beaten up in Quebec City or another popular destination for speaking english on the street - the press from all over the world will jump in on that one and then maybe people will start to understand what is going on in this province. PARTITION - LET THOSE GO THAT WANT TO LIVE IN FRENCH ONLY AND LOCK THEMSELVES AWAY FROM THE REST OF THE WORLD - GOOD BYE AND GOOD RIDDANCE

    27. Correction Cutie - Yannick has never lived in Quebec, though he presents himself as an expert on the place. He says he has visited Montreal and that's about it.

    28. Why would Yannick come to Quebe?. He's a true Francophone - taking advantage of Canadian benefits, lower taxation, higher salaries, the freedom to chose the language of instruction for his children, to speak what language he choses free of financial penalties AND he gets to run his mouth about how he's a member of a victim community.
      It's a win - win situation, especially since most employers and citizens of other provinces are woefully ignorant of what really goes on in Quebec.
      Otherwise he might have to change his name like many have done in Quebec to ensure they retain or progress in their employment and even that, is no guarantee of washing away the 'autre' stain.

    29. For the record, I gave an honest try at getting a job in Montreal this summer, it just didn't work out. I resent your implication that I'm unwilling to live there.

    As I see this name mentioned I decided to find out something about the man. With all the letters and no explanations I still have no idea who he is or what he does. Example: SQL/DBA/mcdba/mcitp/RDBMS/MySQL. I'm totally lost. Ed
    Hugo Shebbeare
    Born and raised in Vancouver, Canada, with a brief excursion to study in Brussels, Melbourne & Washington D.C., Hugo has been working with SQL Server since 1998. He’s busied himself as a DBA since 1999 (with mcdba & mcitp certifications in ‘01 & ‘08 respectively), as independent consultant with his own company, Intellabase Solutions, since 2002 (now part time), and recently took on a permanent position with Canadian Printing giant Transcontinental; managing not only his favourite RDBMS, but also MySQL 5.x and Oracle 10/11. He enjoys writing documentation for quick, safe infrastructure rebuilds and expansions, and most challengingly, propositions to Executives Management. He has spoken at SQLteach/DevTeach, Montreal Dot Net User Group, Roman Rehak's Vermont User Group, has a weekly blog on SQLServ

    1. Technical acronyms related to working with and managing computer databases.

      The entire description is chock full of technical jargon that must be difficult to follow unless you either practice in the field or are fluent in how it works. But don't despair: if you haven't figured out how to replace "Anonymous" with "Ed Brown" yet, it's understandable that acronyms like RDBMS and DBA would baffle you.

    To change the subject for a moment, My computer was invaded by crooks who wanted to sell me protection for $199.00 for 23 years. What shocked me what what they knew about me. They even told me I had $63.00 in my bank account and for that I could buy 1 year protection but if I had $250.00 I could get 23 years plan. I told them my pension cheque would be in three days from now and when it arrived I would take the 23. I asked him to call back in three days. I knew my cheque would be in that night so when it came I immediately paid my bills and sent the balance to my grandson's account. I called the bank, changed my password and switched to my old computer since they had the system number from Microsoft. When they called back I used words I won't put up here. What surprised me was being unable to find anywhere on the web to report this or get help. Ed

    1. Mr. Brown,

      I was worried for you when I saw, a while ago, that you gave the name of your street (so with your name, it is easy to figure out your address), you also once gave your phone number. What kind of other personnal informations you gave online. This is the kind of information that crooks love to have. And I am guessing that Ed Brown is your real name.

      I know your are a big man and everything, but it is just not safe to give personnal informations online to anyone.

    Thank you Patrice, I will be more careful in future. I am also starting the beginning of alzheimers so
    in another year or two I will probably think the computer is my dead mother-in-law. For now I am at the stage where I forget what happened yesterday but remember with 100% accuracy (hear that complicatd)
    what happened sixty years ago. I joined an alzheimers support group but couldn't remember to go. So for now I have a written note with your advice printed on it taped to the top of my screen. Thanks for caring. Ed

    1. You are welcome.

      But I am puzzled. Are you joking about alzheimer and about forgetting your alzheimer support group? I just don't know if I should laugh at your joke or be sorry for what is happening to you.

    Hey Mike, Again thanks for your concern. Of course I'm joking. They tell me it could be two years before I'll need help. I do crossword puzzles to keep the brain active as they suggest. I also eat a lot of blueberries. Apparently they keep the blood passages in the brain open so blood flows freely.
    Several universities in the U.S. gave blueberries to half a class 20 minutes before exams. The BB side scored 30 percent higher every time. I read the Gazette daily from front to back and I'm able to keep up with most of the posts on this site. I'm amazed at the knowledge of the people here especially Mr.
    Sauga and the Editor. I learn from all you guys every day including guys like you Cutie and Laurie. Ed

    1. Ed, ;)

      Thanks, my dad had Alzheimer's. I certainly can sympathize!

      Don`t give up the brain busters.

  22. I really wish I was an adult sometimes, so I could help start a political movement for the
    re-bilingualisation of Quebec and the city of Montreal. It's gotten unbelievable at this point, and the double standards some of these politicians have on language issues- even federally. Oh-ho brother! What can I do as a minor to help with this partition movement?

    1. EDM,

      My advice to one who wants to get politicaly involved is to read, read to have a better understanding of reality, of the past and, hence, of the present.

      If you want partition, read about what has been written about partition. Read past speeches a pro-partition leaders, read past newspapers articles. Read also what has been written opposing partition.

      Also, look at maps and statistics. This one may sound odd, but it is an advice from geograph and former canadian army officer René Marcel Sauvé. Look at maps of Montréal, look at the demographics, where do francos, anglos and allos live, how do they vote, and so on. Tony Kondak's book (freely available online) would be helpful. Looking at reality is essential because politics doesn't occur in the abstract world of ideas, politics occur in the real world.

      Read about history. I suggest Mark Levine's Reconquest of Montreal. This one recommended by Don MacPherson to anyone who wants to understand the history of the language debate in Montréal.

      Read also about the mechanics of economy. I suggest Janes Jacobs's Cities and the Wealth of Nations. My apoligies, this one favers Québec's independence.

      Take a look at :
      This is about technics of cybermilitantism (some of the sections are in english).
      And :

      When reading, be careful not to become one of those who read The Animal Farm and analyse everything according to this one book and quote "some are more equal than others" whenever they open their mouth.

      Reading leads to a better understanding of reality, which leads to credibility. If you are a teenager, people do not expect much credibility from you. So if you gain even a little credibility, it might go a long way.

    2. Are you kidding me?

      He asks how to help bring bilingualism back to Montreal, and you give him a link to a racist propaganda site?

      As for the "non-violence" section, I think you should give that link to some of your separatist friends instead.

      I thought you were able to be objective and fair, I see I was wrong. Maybe you should look into a career in politics Mr.Patrice.

    3. Quebecker of Tree Stump,

      The "racist propaganda site" provides interesting documentation about cybermilitantism, hence the interest. The presented methods can be used for our racist and xenophobic etnic cleansing campaing but they can also be used for a pro-partition campaing, which, we will all agree, would be the paramount of humanism, openess to the Other and, plainly put, a glorious liberation war against monstruous separatist monsters (Is this monstruous enough?). A hammer can be used to build a house as well as to crush a skull.

      "As for the "non-violence" section, I think you should give that link to some of your separatist friends instead."

      Already done! The link on Cap sur l'Indépendance is addressed to my separatists friends, that why it is on that particular site.

      If you think that I suggested the link on non-violence as a mean to "preach peace" or something, you misunderstood my intention. This presentation of non-violence does not deal with the moral values of violence or non-violence, it presents non-violence as a pragmatic and efficient method to reach one's goal, hence the interest for our young fellow EDM.

    4. It never ceases to amuse me when sovereigntists pretend to take a stand against violence. I saw no public outcry when convicted bomber Reale walked out of the court system with no prison term.No students walked out to demonstrate against the Quebec militia and their use of death threats and intimidation. No demonstrations when Parizeau set the bullseye square on the forehead of an entire community to a rabid mob that urged him on. In fact, the sovereigntist movement has used violence and the threat of more to come to achieve their political goals. The FLQ crisis paved the way for todays institutionalized intolerance.
      In an environment where a group have been completely politically disenfranchised, ghettoized and scapegoated, violence is the natural, if unfortunate reaction to these policies. It makes sense for sovereigntists to ask for cooler heads to prevail after using violence to wrench basic human rights from a community - who wants another Bain, especially if he's not targetting the generally acceptable target that Reale tried to bomb with no consequences?
      As usual, more sovereigntist hypocrisy and propaganda.

    5. It just burns my lips. I don't want to start you or anything now that you seem to be in a good mood, but who this bomber Reale that you talk about?


    7. The article is a telling example of the true nature of Quebec and its society Michel. An entire population that watched this bit of news go by without reaction. As many others have pointed out before, Quebecois socialism has more in common with national socialism (nazis) and Vichy cowardice than anything else you pretend at.

    Years ago my wife and I were advisers for a group 'gays and friends of gays' Kids as young as 14 were surprisingly very interested in the politics of the day. They wanted to improve life for gay people in Montreal. Working together they wrote letters. They went back to their schools and recruited others to write letters. Over the ten years we worked with them they sent thousands of letters to various people.
    In numbers their is strength. I still see some of them from time to time and they still come to me for advice and help. In fact I am starting to write a book of advice built around some of the problems we solved together. Ed

    Sorry - should have read - 'in numbers there is strength'

  25. Editor, you forget to mention among the racist xenophobic sources 'le cahier de petits québécois frustrés', alias, Le Devoir. How comes? Have you ever read its comments? They are even worse than those on

  26. @EDM - Gosh I hope there are more of you out there. Talk about partition as much as you can with anyone who'll listen because we have to plant the idea. Write as many e-mails to politicians and newspapers as you can because partition is a win-win for everyone. The separatists will end up with some of the land they want to start their own country and we federalists will have a choice to remain part of Canada. If we do this democratically, no one should have any problems with it and it may avert a civil war which is where we're headed if we don't start protecting our rights as Canadians to speak whatever language we want. That is our right under the Canadian constitution! My idea is that there are 75 federal electoral districts, each district will have a referendum and make a decision as to where they wish to reside - Canada or a new Quebec - if we follow federal rules under the Clarity Act, it will be a clear question and a clear majority is each of the 75 electoral districts. We may have a hodgepodge of areas at the end but so what? Each will be clearly one or the other and this should avert problems if done democratically. The separatists are always bragging that they are democratic so this is a way out of this mess that we've been in for 40 years. The areas that vote to stay in Canada could have a new BILINGUAL province or we could join NB which is already bilingual or remain a new province is we so choose and sign the Canadian Constitution. A movement towards this solution has to be started and if everyone participates, maybe we can get such a movement underway.

    1. Also, we could use a document that the Swiss used to settle the partition issue - one contributor mentioned this awhile back. It's called "A Deeply Divided Society Needs: The Jura Solution" written by Richard Janda. It seems to have worked for them.

    2. Yes, Cutie003, it has worked for them, but you forgot to mention one important detail: Swiss are not québécois! You cannot compare the mentality: the former rational doers, the latter irrational emotional whiners.

    3. In Switzerland the languages are neatly separated from each other, free from each other's nefarious taint. Only in a few border counties are the demographics allowed to be at war with each other, with much fuss over whether or not "germanification" or "frenchification" is a real, occuring thing.

      Not a good role-model IMO. I vastly prefer our system.

    4. Oh, and btw - to create a new province requires a constitutional ammendment (the issue came up when the was talk of adding St-Lucie in the carribeans as an 11th province), so that would be hard to achieve as you'd need a nation-wide referendum like on meech accord.

      Perhaps instead joining another province would work best, but you'd have a hard sell convincing federalist francophones to join Ontario.

    5. Yannick - Why do you keep saying things like "you'd have a hard sell convincing federalist francophones to join Ontario"? How do you know this? If Ontario was willing to join with us why would that be a problem? Ontario now has an office for french language - why could this not be expanded? Ontario has a francophone hospital in Vanier and this doesn't seem to be a problem. There are many francophones living in Ontario without a problem. Stop saying these things without proof - If you have a better solution to end this misery, why don't you offer it instead of putting down everything everyone else suggests - especially since you don't even reside in this province?

    6. Cutie - Its just common sense Cutie..if many francophones already fear for their language then joining Ontario will not soothe those fears. Yes there are francophones in Ontario as there are elsewhere in the country but in general these communities are fading away. I know this for a fact in Mantioba where a close family members home town which used to be predominantly french is now essentially all english. There are countless towns like this across Canada..its just harsh reality..if you dont have sufficient numbers and/or support then the predominant language takes over.

      Your blanket statement about francophones living in Ontario without a problem is your impression. I doubt that its easy being a francophone in most of Ontario. Many francophones here in Quebec believe that anglophones are treated very well given their small you think they are the ones who should know? I think you better talk to more francophones outside Quebec..I have and many of them are pretty resigned to the fact that french is on a constant decline. I have cousins in Manitoba in which both parents are french and yet none of them speak much french anymore..I have seen it over and over. So please dont lecture francophones about how there is no problem elsehwere in Canada just as you wouldnt want francophones telling you how lucky anglophones have it in Quebec.

    7. Montreal is the Quebecois bread basket. If we were to seperate the Quebec government would have to find a way to replace the irreplaceabl. Namely, anglo and ethnic funds that help keep the system afloat. Non bilingual Francophones that smother public positions in Montreal would have to somehow be engaged in St. Jerome and Blainville.
      The difference with Switzerland is not only the claim to the territory, it's that Quebecers lay claim to our hard work, our jobs and our real estate as well as our existence, that they seek to put limits on at every opportunity. We're only good enough to invest our money on the island and provide them with an income. They're then free to whine that the 'maudites' own the island and have drunken Friday night drive bys spraying swastikas in our neighbourhoods, breaking windows or verbally and physically assaulting anglophones on the street.
      Seperation is possible and Ontario would be overjoyed to have a bilingual Montreal as part of its territory. Unlike Quebec, sensible economic opportunities rule the day in other provinces, not racist anachronisms that lost their momentum in the ash heaps of Europe in the forties.

    8. Montreal is Canadian, not québécoise. We have nothing in common with No Man's Land (=the rest of Quebec).

    9. Cutie,ethnic et WA sont la même personne (troll)

    10. Anglophone and ethnic business owners have to start hiring with bilingualism as the criteria, no matter what the position is. From movie theatres to restaurants, parking lot attendants and every other industry we're involved in, we should deny employment to all unilingual Francophones. Whatever the laws may be, we have to educate others that we will be respected one way or the other. If they're going to get along 'chez nous' and seek benefit from our investments, they'll have to be qualified enough to speak our language, the way we make the same effort to communicate in theirs.
      We can foster bilingualism and our self respect in increments, despite the repressive laws and the desire of the majority to erase us as a culture and as an identity.

    11. Good idea ethnic but I've found that some of the separatists will not speak english even though they know now to perfectly well. In my area, the Outaouais, most of our establishments are bilingual and they serve us with no problem. The one or two that don't have bilingual menus, for instance, I will not utilize for their services and I have told them so. They know they are allowed to have bilingual signs and menus but if they choose to ignore this, I ignore them. It's their business loss so most conform as there are a lot of anglophones here. Send those establishments an e-mail and/or a letter and tell them you will not go there if they do not serve you in the language of YOUR choice - not theirs.

    12. In our office we'll NEVER hire unilingual québékuà. They just don't fit in it. It's an English office (from Mr. Janitor to Mr. Boss) and everything is in English (from the company name to the smallest file in the PC). Diversity and multi-everything are highly valued and encouraged and celebrated, but we must have something in common to be able to work together: this something is called English.

    13. WA, what is your problem?

      Do you have any idea what a flagrant violation of separatist rights your workplace is guilty of?

      Think about poor little seps like S.R?

      Where else is he going to sleep under his desk for half his shift?

      How else will S.R get all the free paper, pens and photocopies of the next Jeunes Patriotes rally?

      Just how in the hell is he supposed to show up for work at 11 with vodka on his breath if he has no workplace to show up late to?

      How is he supposed to rack up the necessary hours to spend 8 months out of the year on EI?

      You really let us down dude. Speak to your boss about equality - it pays.

    14. I know, Geronimo, but nobody, from Mr. Janitor to Mr. Boss, gives a fig of seps and their emotional language drivel.
      As seps say, tout se passe en anglais. And it will always be like that, with or without their approval.

    15. @Cutie : I have to say that complicated is exactly right as concerns the state of mind of many francophones living in the ROC. I myself am still not sure how I'll deal with the situation eventually. I know the idea of remaining in Alberta indefinitely does not appeal to me.

      Anyway, if you're still shocked at my beliefs concerning the partition being unpopular amongst federalist francophones, maybe you should ask yourself why the only people who advocate it, here or elsewhere, seem to be allophones or anglophones. You could try to dismiss the lot of them as racist separatists, sure, but you won't get your partition unless you can convince many of them to join your movement.

      Sadly, while the federalist Quebecers may be vehemently opposed to separatism, it does not follow that they favor ditching the rest of Quebec behind and create a new Province.

    16. I disagree in that the federalist francophones are not idiots - the ones I know are hard working and like their lifestyle - they too resent these unsustainable social programs that these separatists like to use to buy votes for separation claiming that the ROC is not as charitable as they are - which is why the ROC is not bankrupt! When push comes to shove as to a vote to remain with Canada or to stay in a bankrupt, socialist country like the new Quebec is promising, where do you think their loyalties will lie? A new bilingual province where they are treated equally and a chance to thrive or a bankrupt, bigoted, backward looking new country? Come on now - be realistic!

  27. I guess we have to hope that most are rational doers and that they can keep the irrational ones on a back burner - other than that, we are in for a difficult time ahead of us with or without partition. We have to keep hammering away at the fact that this is democracy. And I really object to people who keep referring to this as a battle between English and French - it's a battle to keep our rights as Canadians living in Quebec to speak whatever language we choose be it french, english or chinese. The PQ is continually eroding our rights and/or threatening to take away more of them. We have to start pressuring the Federal Government to withdraw the Notwithstanding Clause of the constitution to prevent Quebec from doing this again and again. The Quebec Office of the English Language has a petition for this purpose which you can find on "" if I'm not mistaken. I repeat this information because there are always new readers to the site and the more we inform them of what they can do to push our movement along, the better. Join any organization that is fighting for our rights as CANADIANS to get us out of this long drawnout battle that is dragging Canada and Quebec down!

  28. Yes Ed, please be very careful what you disclose on the computer. There are many hackers out there and you could be targeted for many reasons but especially because you're being so outspoken about Quebec issues. Try to keep your identity as secret as possible please for your own sake.

    Thanks Cutie,. I appreciate your concern. Nice to know that people we've never met care about us.
    I have another email account under in another old computer which I use only for emails
    from people needing help. I have done this all my life and am not going to hide because of separatists.
    Reaching out to people has been my whole life. If I was younger I would open a business and put my sign in English only. If we could get 100 businesses to do that in Montreal they would be stymied. The courts would overflow and it would attract international attention. In the meantime if I can help you all you know how to reach me. Ed

  30. Editor,

    What happenned to the Delete button? I longer see it. Is it just me?

  31. Hi All,

    I'm looking for a bit of help here.

    Can someone send me a link of federal government revenues and expenditures per province, or even just Quebec ?

    I found two such relaqtively-credible links, but although one seems credible, I have lingering doubts about it. The other is statistics Quebec, which is credible, but I'm not sure if I'm interpreting the numbers correctly of misreading it, as the numbers are a huge surprise.

    Here is the link:

    According to this site, in 2009 (the year after the beginning of the great recession), the federal government received in total revenue from quebec ("recettes totales du federal", $39,677 billion from quebec.

    The federal govt spent in quebec on goods and services "dépenses courantes nettes du federal en biens et services" a total of $11,191 billion.

    In addition, the federal administration costs spent in Quebec, such as employees of the various federal agencies etc. "dépense de programme de l'administration federale" come to a furthe $47,088 billion.

    Bringing a total federal revenue from quebec to $39,677 bil vs total spending of $58,279 billion, and a deficit of $18,602 billion. Can someone check and tell me if i am misreading this ?

    These figures are similar to my other (less credible site), which had the same revenue at 39,677 bil, but expenditure total of close to 54,000 bil.

    However, i was not expecting this high a deficit level, so I'm trying to confirm it, but I'm having problems finding credible websites. Do you guys have any links on the actual figures of revenue and expenditures of the feds in QC and the other provinces ?

    1. I wouldnt be shocked by those numbers. There is so much federal money pouring into Quebec that its not even funny. Look at all the federal departments, national centres, post offices, space centre, met centre, film board, radio canada, and on and on. Montreal would be a disaster without all this money. Thats the price to try and keep the quebecois happy but its not working.
      I have always wanted to find exactly those seems to be well hidden. Remember that people can spin the numbers in many ways. The PQ loves to talk about the 50 billion quebecers send to Ottawa but not mentioning all the money that comes back.

    2. Editor,

      Could you please delete my empty comment above? Thank you.

      L. Steve,

      So that number (18.6 G$) is the net of federal transfer to Quebec? Is it on top of the equalization payment?

    3. Hi Troy, no. From what i gather, it would include the equalisation payments. It includes all, so social and health transfer, equalization, purchase of goods and services in qc, administration and employement costs, etc.

      That said, I'm still not confident in the figure as I have not found enough independent sources that can validate it, nor have i found the original source (i.e. federal revenue website that confirms it)

      I find it very high, that's why I'm sceptical of it.

      It's also important to note, it's the 2009 figure, which is right after the start of the great recession and all govts' deficit-spending to counter it.

      Stats quebec says they updated that page in November 2011 and May 2012, so I'm assuming it is the last year for which "reliable" data can be obtaned (i don't know).


    Howdya like that. Uncle Stevie loves us after all. Ed

  33. Ethnic makes perfect sense to me - Enough of having our rights trampled = partition this damn province - the sooner the better so at least some of us will have our rights reinstated and we may even have a few dollars left in the bank - other than that we will all sink like a stone in the very near future - bankrupt, spendthrifts that have sacrificed everything we own for the sake of separatism! Enough is Enough - fight back all you Canadians - this has to end.

    1. The problem is that we are totally outnumbered in this province. Its really down to basic math.
      10 percent or 20 percent versus 80 or 90..with an indifferent federal govt and a roc who probably wants quebec gone. The only hope we have is to keep the PQ out of power..thats my focus now..

    2. Spencer the Spineless PorcupineSunday, September 30, 2012 at 5:02:00 PM EDT

      The actual amount of separatists are around 30% the rest would be a wild card as to say which way they would decide to go. But the 80% of franco's won't automatically be against the idea, though I'm sure many will be indifferent.

  34. My personal experience:

    I went to Air Canada website to purchase flight pass between Toronto and Montreal, for my weekend fly back. When I tried to check out, the total fare was $1713. Then I realized that my on-line profile still had my Montreal address. So I changed my address to Toronto and redid the check out. The fare was then $1684.

    Therefore, I save $29 just for declaring that I am a resident of Ontario instead of Quebec.

  35. Alright all you seppies = how come living here is costing us an arm and a leg? Partition this damn province so we can all get back to normal living. You people seem to think that money doesn't mean anything - let your areas live that way and the rest of us to join our rightful birthplace = Canada!

  36. Hey, maybe I'm completely missing the point here, but how is that chalk drawing offensive to francophones? Whomever drew it is quoting an episode of the Simpsons... what's to say this picture was even taken in Montreal, or Canada for that matter?

  37. Cutie I think Yannick is Right,

    I really doubt the vast majority of federalist francophones are willing to support partition. Unless there must be something in return for them. I could see Pontiac voting for partition, lower north shore, Ungava, parts of the southern eastern townships, Hudson, St Lazare and other points west of Montreal, most of Montreal Island. The only reason being those areas have a majority and/or large minority where anglos and allos are the majority. For francophones to vote for partition there would have to be a YES vote for Independence and/or sovereignty for Quebec. Which probably won't happen because most Quebecois are realizing that staying in Canada is a pretty good deal for Quebec. You got equalization, the notwithstanding clause and leverage for coast to coast bilingualism in some form or another.

    The only way I see the potential for a new bilingual province on the lines of New Brunswick or even one based on a bill 22 based model, is if we reach out to francophones in the areas adjacent to Quebec, Prescott Russell, Cornwall, Northeast Ontario, Ottawa who may see better opportunities to live and survive in French in a bilingual province rather then an English province with bilingual services. Such a new Province would include, Ottawa, and most of Montreal Island and have a population of around 3 to 4 million people.

    The hard part of marketing this solution to the never ending linguistic conflicts would be to the Quebec francophones in what would be the new partitioned areas, the anglophones in parts of Ontario who will be needed to have them support this new province. Not to mention the biggest losers in the entire process, the anglophones and allophones left in what will remain Quebec.

    There will be alot of compromises needed and I do have some theories on what could be proposed.
    The only way most Ontario Francophones would support a new province is if those francophones left in Ontario after the creation of a new province are guaranteed the provisions of the French Services act that are currently there. Most of the Ontario francophone majority areas would no longer be in Ontario, though the community would still grow due to french speaking immigrants coming into southern ontario and some interprovincial migration. Ontarios' only interest would be financial, they would have to offer a smaller population services in french and a new bilingual province to their east would probably be a net economic benefit. Also it wouldn't take the ontario population down by more then 1.5 million keeping the population of Ontario still by far the largest in Canada.

    For those Francophones in areas needed to connect the new province like the provincial seats of Soulanges, there is only the monetary factor. The chance of the entire area being rezoned to allow maximum benefit from real estate and some kind of economic net benefit. Making money off their property sales and having the choice to transfer to what is left of Quebec.

    I do see a new province as quite possible. Francophones would benefit because there would now be 2 fully bilingual provinces in Canada and one unilingual, still the 2nd most populous French speaking province that would be very homogenous. For the rest of Canada it would probably mean a more stable country and a new province that would cut down on the need for equalization for at least 1.5 million people per capita.

    1. See, this is a much more rational approach. I could see it working out if it was proposed this way.

      The problem I forsee now, however, is that there's a great many anglophones in the aforementionned areas who already believe that "too many" services are offered to Francophones. For instance, see the outrage at hiring some bilingual nurses in Cornwall, or how trying to do anything other than watch a slow decay of French services in Ottawa is akin to pulling teeth sans anasthesia, and I'm not sure that you could sell a true bilingual (in the New Brunswick sense) province to them.

      Question - do you believe Ontario would be any more willing to give up Ottawa than Quebec is willing to give up Montreal?

    2. Well Yannick, I never said it would be easy. The 1st question for everybody is, whats in it for me. It will be impossible to satisfy everyone. We would have to satisfy a large enough percentage of the population that we can pass the slight majority mark for getting the new province. In Cornwall for example, the town already has bilingual signage and some services in French. About 25% of the population is mother tongue french and 68% English. IF we can could on about 21%(1/3) of the English population and all the rest we can pass it through. Cornwall would naturally benefit with its association with Montreal as it had done in the past. Alot of ex Montrealers and former Quebec businesses are located there already. The main opposition to Cornwall Hospital offering bilingual services was actually a town councilwoman in town of Long Sault. West of Cornwall.

      In Ottawa while 15% of the population is French Speakers only 62% are English Speakers. Again it would mean convincing 1/3 of English speakers to join a new province. Maybe focusing on infrastructure improvements in the Ottawa area would help. I assuming a bilingual province along the lines of New Brunswick would allow Montreal to boom to a degree that the lump sum (bribes) incentives would pay for themselves.

      One incentive would be a possible new Provincial capital in a more sparse and/or economically depressed area of the proposed new province.

    3. Question - do you believe Quebec is really in a position to make demands if Canada decides to reclaim its territory and the port? It doesn't really matter what Quebec is willing to do. If Canada turns on the screw, Quebec will do one way or the other. The province is a short media campaign away from becoming the object of derision and distatste in the whole country. They wouldn't even have to stretch the truth - just report on it. Decades of political extortion do not come from a position of strength on the part of Quebec, but from a position of tolerance and patience on behalf of Canada. How long do you think that will last?
      Has it occurred to you that the outrage may be reactionary since nurses lose their jobs in Montreal for not demonstrating an adequate amount of bilingualism?
      Hop on the 401 can go both ways.
      Personally, I believe Francophones should be denied all French services in the entire country. Why pay for bilingual services, dump billions into Quebec, and be denied the same measure of respect in the province?

    4. @Ethnic,

      On the other hand what if Quebec just decides to never separate and just keep the status quo?

      There is the notwithstanding clause, equalization and a minority that will just keep paying taxes disproportional to their population. It has lasted for 35 years and do we want it to go on for 35 more years? I mean do we want to be in this position forever? The rest of Canadas' politicians and Media wrote off minorities in Quebec a very long time ago. Even now, despite the power of the internet the majority of rest of Canada still has no clue what we are going through here. Just look at the NDP. IN the rest of Canada no one has any idea that in Quebec the NDP promotes what the bloc Quebecois promoted with alot less emphasis on Quebec separation, even their own members outside Quebec don't have much of a clue.

    5. But the taxpayers in the rest of Canada have not written away their hard earned money. If Canadians get a good view of what their money is paying for I suspect Quebec will lose any bargaining power it thinks it has.
      What we need is a media campaign to spray away decades of whitewash. Western politicians are chomping at the bit to have a go at Quebec. All we need to do is open the door. Let their electorate know what their tax dollars fund and the very uncanadian true face of Quebec.
      I'm sick and tired of QC thinking it can dictate the terms. Let's serve them up for all of Canada to see.

  38. "I really doubt the vast majority of federalist francophones are willing to support partition."

    Cutie003 and some others tend to see the population divided in two hard line factions and think that francophone federalists would viciously oppose a yes victory.

    The reality is more like this : there are two hard line factions separated by a large proportion of moderates, among which there are some who would vote yes but could live with a no and some who would vote no but could live with a yes.

    One instance taken from Pierre Duchenes's biography of Jacques Parizeau : in the days before the 95 referendum, a group of 180 business persons were getting to publish a letter recognizing the yes victory and urging everyone to work together to make the new country a success. Among those names were Gérald Tremblay, Yvon Picotte, Yves séguin, Claude Castonguay, Bernard Lemaire, Gérald Ponton, senator Pietro Rizutto and cardinal Turcotte. Many were notorious federalists but all would have accept and support the will of the majority. (Pierre Duchesne, Le Régent, p.470)

    1. A preferable solution would be a Canada wide referendum on the continued inclusion of Quebec as a closed door society in the federation. If Canadians are done dumping billions to support apartheid, then Quebecers can pack their bags to nationhood. Montreal and the corridor are a natural territorial attachment to Canada. If Quebecers don't like the island being excluded from their borders, I'm sure they will present no problem that the 'van doos' at Val Cartier can't take care of with little effort. If Quebecers want to remain Canadian, they'll have to modernize their antiquated viewpoints on race and language, or they can move on to nationhood and start dealing with real nation problems, like having their territory diminished by the First Nations and Canada.
      Quebecers hold no real cards at this table. We are simply plagued by weak - kneed federal governments that don't do what must be done.

    2. Why should the question revolve around what Quebecers want? It should be what the country that pays for Quebec wants. Quebec is like the guy on social welfare that keeps turning down emplyment opportunities. Eventually, he'll wind up in a card board box apartment panhandling at the downtown core. Put the panhandlers where they belong and stop paying their bills and for their political system that excludes every Canadian from a life within Quebecois borders.

    3. Besides, who's going to guard their borders? GARDA?

    4. That's what they got the militia going for - the jeunes patriotes elite border unit, complete with striped pajama uniform and hat. They come with the smoking pipe accessory AND the musket. High times in the woods.

    5. Ethnic,

      I wish we could see the rest of Canada take the hardline approach, but in the end I don't see it happening unless there is a yes vote for sovereignty. While in the meantime there will be more linguistic restrictions on the minorities in Quebec, even with no threat of separation. That is why I see that the only solution would be a new province with a negotiated division of Quebec into 2 new provinces. Also as Tony Kondaks mentioned there has to be a majority Canadian parliamentary approval and 8 of the 10 provinces. I can see New Brunswick approve if Lower North Shore joins that province as they are isolated from the rest of the minority areas of Quebec. Plus New Brunswick would get access to resources and vast new land mass. Newfoundland would love to be able to transmit their hydro electric power through Northern Quebec into Ontario. All the other provinces would probably see an economic net benefit to different degrees to benefit them.

      If Quebec is promised some economic advantages like keeping their hydro Quebec contracts based on the James bay agreement with the Northern Cree, they might not be as unenthusiastic to a new province. Also they would not have to focus any resources for the minority areas (especially l'ile poubelle as S.R. would say). On the other hand what will sting the rest of Canada is Quebec despite losing between 1.5 to 2 million of their population will still keep 75 parliamentary seats constitutionally, on the other hand parliamentary seats in the rest of Canada would be increased due to population growth and the new province would get the seats it already has based on territory. That would blunt some of the extra seats Quebec would keep.

      While I would love to stick it to the pur laine chauvanists I would be happy to just live in peace in a new province, where everyone would have better opportunities to grow and prosper.

    6. Jarry = Good thoughts - me too = I want peace and acceptance of one another despite language differences. But we cannot afford to belong to the Quebec that doesn't give a damn about money! The native indians will, and always have, voted to stay within Canada. Their contacts with Quebec are based on Canadian law and therefore would be null and void should Quebec leave Canada.

      Ed: I think, even though he is young, Mr. Charest has probably had enough of the Quebec dilemma. I may be wrong but that's how I feel. We need someone who is really, really interested in making a Canada without Quebec portions thereof. I don't think that's his goal. I feel that a young visionary is out there and someone who is interested in protecting the Canadian Constitution to the detriment of the separatists. I think we need a new face and a new name that can pick up the gantlet and be a champion of CANADIAN RIGHTS VS PROVINCIAL RIGHTS. He/she is there - I know it!

    7. Things are very different now-1995 is soooooooo far behind us! No more abuse by these Quebec governments - no more power - no more Bill 101 - No more pushing us around = Get out and leave us alone!

    8. Jarry - You're right a vote on separation is probably necessary but what if we held the vote first?
      Why is the ball always in the separatists court? I'm so fed up with everything being up to them - their laws, their winning conditions, their social programs, why is it always them? I'd love us to be the ones deciding THEIR FATE for a change. They've been deciding ours for 40 years = let's turn the tables!

    When you discuss Separation or partition you must keep in mind the ethos of the majority. Most Francophones are on welfare or have a close friend or relative needing it. At the thought of losing transfer payments (i.e.their welfare) they would go with whoever will pay their life style. Quebec could not afford it. I wonder if we could get some advice from Jean Charest. Say what you like about the man he knows how to form a government and he certainly has a lot of the knowledge we need right now.
    Also he is a Federalist. Wudya think.? Ed

  40. @Ed Brown,

    I would even advocate one time lump sum payments to unilingual anglophones in Ontario that would be hostile to be in a new bilingual province and unilingual francophones in areas of Quebec needed as a link between different minority majority areas of Quebec needed for the new bilingual provinces. The lump sum payments would pay for themselves in the long run.

    1. Yes! I always think of that type of scenario. Offering incentives to anglo citizens from other provinces to move here in droves and change the statistics in our favor.

    2. Okay,"in our favor" might be a stretch but let`s say make it more favorable.

  41. Also anglophones and allophones in areas which are surrounded by Quebec and/or where they are not the majority will have to move to this new Bilingual province. For example the borough of Lennoxville is not contiguous to majority anglophone areas of the southern eastern townships therefore they would have to either stay put and abide by the rules of a Quebec without minorities or transfer on mass to the the new bilingual province.

    JARRY, This is confusing. When you say Quebec are you referring to the new province or the separate country? I think you make good sense but I'm blurry on specifics. While we're at it, which side gets to keep the title Quebec? Ed

  43. Musings on a rainy Sunday... I wonder if the serial stop sign defacer is S.R's son or related ti him...

  44. Yes, guys - finally some meaningful discussions on how to solve this problem = it's taken weeks but I'm so glad we're getting there. Thank you so much - all of you. Was at the legion in Gatineau today for a card tournament and I mentioned partition to a fellow I've known for a long time - say 7 years - an ex-Army sgt and for the first 10 minutes he was totally against it then he thought for about 5 minutes and said "you know that makes sense" as long as it is done legally and democratically! Knowing this guy, I can honestly say that I thought he would die before he would agree to this but there it was! We have to get everyone on the same map and this is possible. Thank you all for considering what is best for all concerned - separatists and Canadians! I'm so excited to see this picking up steam.


    1. I think partition is a good idea, but I'm not sure the outcome would make for a cleanly bordered new province. If the partition referendum has results similar to the 1995 referendum, there will be exclaves of the new province which would be surrounded on all sides by either the United States or separatist parts of Quebec. How would we connect these federalist ridings together? Would we negociate and trade an equal amount of land in one of our federalist ridings for a narrow strip of land in a separatist riding to connect each possible exclave to the new province?

    2. Edm,

      Thats what I was thinking. For example Soulanges seat has a majority Francophone population outside the Vaudreuil seat which might be slight majority anglo and allo. There isn't much distance between there and then Ontario border. It would be in Francophone property holders interests if there was a new province created because they can sell that land at premium and buy similar or much larger holdings in what remainders of Quebec(ROQ in this scenario.) Near the US border from Akwasasane to before lacolle, you would have slight minority majorities (towns at the actual border) but not at lacolle. After lacolle you could again get a slight minorities majority. Again there has to be either a negotiated exchange or compensation. Compensation might be alot easier then negotiated exchange.

    3. "Would we negociate and trade an equal amount of land in one of our federalist ridings for a narrow strip of land in a separatist riding to connect each possible exclave to the new province?"

      Let's imagine a hypothetical anglo town in the Eastern Townships that would remain canadian. A narrow strip of land would connect it to, let's say, Montreal, whatever.

      The problem with a narrow strip of land is that it would have a very long border for a very small surface. Will you gard this very long border to make sure that no one of us step on your territory? And will we gard this very long border to make sure that no anglos travelling from the Eastern Townships to Montreal dare to step on our territory? Of course not because it would be stupid. We would do what normally intelligent and pragmatical people would do : those anglos would be allowed to travel freely across our territory.

      And on your strips of lands, would you build highways? Would we have pairs of highways running side by side on our respective strips of lands? The franco highway and the anglo highway side by side with your border patrolers in the center? That would be funny. Of course, it would not happen because it would be too stupid. We would share the same roads because it would be the logical and pragmatical thing to do.

      I just wonder how you plan to connect the maritimes with Ontario.

    4. Michel,

      This partition would not be involving 2 different countries. This is a scenario of a new bilingual province created out of parts of Quebec. Quebec would continue to stay a province. Unless they separate at a later date. There would be freedom to travel. Unless Quebec decides to become an independent country at a later date. In that case Northern Quebec stretches from Ontario all the way to Newfoundland. IF quebec restricts freedom of movement they will also have to decide how they will get sea access if they have to pass customs in the gulf of saint Lawrence. I am also not taking about getting all the Anglo majority areas of the townships but those that are contiguous for example on Southern eastern townships. Not some place like lennoxville which is surrounded by majority francophone areas. There may have to be negotiated territorial exchange. For francophones in a new bilingual province they can easily sell their properties for profit and move to what is left of Quebec. The ones moving out of what is left of Quebec won't be so lucky, they would probably have to sell at a loss.

    5. "In that case Northern Quebec stretches from Ontario all the way to Newfoundland."

      From Ontario, through Northen Québec, through Newhoundland and then crossing the gulf by ferry to reach New Brunswick. That would be quite a drive. No one would do that, one would travel on United Sates territory to reach New-Brunswick.

      "IF quebec restricts freedom of movement".

      I would be in no one's interest. Anglos have this fixation about us closing the Saint-Laurent Seaway, it is beyond my understanding.

      " There may have to be negotiated territorial exchange. For francophones in a new bilingual province they can easily sell their properties for profit and move to what is left of Quebec."

      Interesting idea but you forget one detail, people can't move at will like this. One will want to stay near his job.

      I guess that you understand that I was making fun of EDM's exchange of strips of lands to connect anglo enclaves.

  46. Fermeture record d'écoles anglaises cette année.Nous progressons...

    1. Check this out SR. We're all waiting for your 'surprise' and 'intense' visits:

      They'll be more than happy to partition Quebec for you.

    2. Est-ce que le coût des amendes relié aux infractions linguistiques fait partie de votre budget annuel? :p

    Whenever a new boundary is set it is usually one straight line, like the 38th parallel or the 49th.
    The way it was done in Ireland or Korea. I doubt anyone would agree to a patch here and a patch there. A country or province must have definable borders. A line would probably be drawn across Quebec from Ontario to N.B. The bottom half most likely the English half would border the U.S. Probably north of Ottawa to Lennoxville with Montreal in the south. Ed