Monday, August 27, 2012

Thirty-five Years of Hate

This weekend brought on sadly foreboding feelings of imminent disaster, a chokingly uncomfortable presentment that we are about to revisit the bad old days, as polls, however flawed, showed the Pq is on the cusp of forming the next provincial government.

Reading through our comments section, it's easy to see that these feelings are not mine alone, they run deeply throughout our community and although we share a common dread, the suffering is borne by each of us on a very personal level.
 
The spectre of yet another government dedicated to the eradication of our community and the sense of betrayal and abandonment we feel by our federal government, a government which is supposed to protect the rights of all Canadians, makes the situation all the more unbearable.

As those in the Rest of Canada throw their hands up in frustration, telling Quebec in effect to separate if they wish, the one million or so English Canadians here are fed to the wolves, given up upon, as if we don't matter at all.
While Canadians were gung-ho to fight for freedom and justice in Afghanistan, here at home we Canadians appease separatists with the zeal of Neville Chamberlain and the backbone of Marshall Pétain.

Alas, that is our lot, if we are to survive here as a community, we will have to take some hard decisions soon. Nobody will defend us but ourselves.

The separatists are determined to enact more and more restrictive and discriminatory laws in the hope that we will fold our tents as in the past, pack up and quit our homes.

They could be right and then again, they just might be wrong, time will tell.

Whatever the future brings, it is clear that fighting for our community here under this separatist government will mean more than using political resistance, where we have been dispossessed.

The student movement showed us how a system can be brought to its knees with the mildest exercise of civil disobedience, but this discussion is premature, I shall shelve it to a time when it becomes appropriate.

Today, as we anglos and Ethnics wait for the shoe of renewed persecution to drop, ethnocentric haters celebrate the 35th anniversary of Bill 101, a law conceived in hate and dedicated to the principle that all men are created unequal.

The majority of Quebecers hold that Bill 101 is a necessary evil, a law needed to keep the English and Ethnic barbarians from breaching the gate and running riot over French language and culture.

They can be forgiven for thinking that they are in mortal danger, an unrelenting propaganda campaign has massaged this message and fed the lie for these last thirty-five years.

But there are those who take an absolute delight in Bill 101 and the concept of torturing those who are not like them, those who they believe, have no place among them.

Bill 101 is a law that was conceived and written by Camille Laurin, a man consumed by a visceral hatred of the English, a man as cunning and evil as Joesph Goebells, the author of the antisemitic campaign by the Nazis, seventy-five years ago.

Bill 101 sets out to promote and preserve the French language by restricting the rights of all to speak English.
It is like taking food off one plate and putting it on another, under the guise that one party is supposedly more deserving or hungry.

Bill 101 puts the onus and blame for whatever ills exist or which are perceived, in relation to the French language, squarely on the English and Ethnics.

Those wishing to preserve and promote French believe that forcing immigrants into the French stream is the answer.
They believe that restricting the English from expressing themselves publicly is the answer.
They are wrong.

Let me offer a simple solution that will guarantee not only the preservation, but even assure the dominance of the French language in Quebec.

Instead of telling Anglos and Ethnics to sacrifice, French Quebecers can do something to save their language and culture themselves.

HAVE MORE CHILDREN!

If militants are so determined to save French, all that is required is to have more children.
If every second French Quebec woman would bear three children instead of  the current 1.7, there would be no problem.

There would be no need of immigrants at all and with the English population stable, VOILA! the French fact in Quebec would naturally rise.

So why is not one French militant calling for this rather neat and simple solution, one that would entirely eliminate the need for immigrants?

Sacrifice......

Readers, it has to do with sacrifice, something francophones are not willing to do to preserve their language and culture.
For them, it is far easier to ask others, the English and Ethnics to sacrifice for them.

To all you sanctimonious zealots celebrating the anniversary of Bill 101, understand it is a law that exists because you have failed to protect your language.

You haven't lifted a finger to help yourselves, it is like asking someone else to exercise for you or study and take your exams, all because you cannot be bothered.

Why should we Anglos and Ethnics be asked to sacrifice, when francophones are too lazy and disinterested to save their own culture and language?

To paraphrase the great American president John Kennedy, the credo by which French language militants live by is;

"Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what the English and Ethnics can do for you!"

185 comments:

  1. Jealousy, racism and revenge are not now, nor ever have been the ingredients of any lasting existence!

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    1. ...AND?...AND?...What's your point? I've made mine a little scroll down to 12:36AM!

      If the vindictive racists are elected next week, who's to blame? Remember: Hitler and the Nazi party came to power through a legitimate election. All perfectly legal. What he did AFTER that is a horse of a different colour, and Hitler tended to exterminate horses of a different colour. Will that happen in Quebec? It very well could, especially if inaction and indifference rule the days ahead. If nobody tries to stop what potentially could happen, a new generation of Camille Laurins with their visceral hate for everything not of their ilk can manifest into ugly actions, and don't be surprised if it does.

      Based on what has gone on for the last 38 years, my best advice to all our readers is to do what I did. LEAVE!

      I brought my Laval girlfriend over 3 years ago who is now my life partner, and 3 days after she came over let alone 3 years now, she said she would never return to Quebec. Her parents and siblings are there, but she doesn't have that much desire to go back for visits! This is her first Quebec election away from Quebec and she's calling Quebec politics a cesspool. Good for her, because that's EXACTLY what Quebec is...A MOTHERF*****G CESSPOOL!

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    2. Technically, Hitler came to power because it was increasingly difficult to work out a coalition out of all non-Nazi parties when about 30-40% of the representatives were Nazis; eventually the President had little choice to try a government where the Nazi gave their voting power but the executive was all filled with non-Nazi conservative.

      That's all he ever obtained democratically - the rest was clawed, cajoled, bluffed and bullied; a systematic destruction of all the existing power structures such as the labour unions, the churches, the universities, the police, the judicial system, even down to the hobby clubs: all were subverted by the Nazis and used for the promotion of the ideology.

      It's fascinating really, how so much change was enacted in such a little time in the face of a majority who never voted for Hitler in the first place.

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    3. ...AND?...AND?...What's your point?

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    4. None. Dispelling a common misconception that Hitler came to power legally - he did anything but.

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  2. I am disgusted that in Canada in 2012 a Nationalist Socialist party can actually take power. Albeit it will be on only 33% of the vote. Say, when will the PQunt thugs start a fire in the Assembly and blame it on an anglo or ethnic?

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    1. See my entry at 12:36AM below. That is what you have to think after bumping on a log for 38 years, or however long you've been around, if less than 38 years.

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    2. Tell me what I am supposed to do when I can‘t pay for protection and my own people constantly cut me down? When the media and politicians ignore and then give legitimacy to the racists? I expect any kind of anglo pushback will be met witb demonization from the left wing media.

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    3. As I wrote to GD above, based on what you've written, my best advice to you and to all our readers who share your sentiments is to do what I did. LEAVE!

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    4. I did leave and wound up moving back.
      Ontario sucks so STFU!

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    5. True Montrealer: Didn't give it much of a chance, did you? STFU? NEVER! It's a free country, there isn't enough money you could offer me to move back to Quebec (besides, they'd tax it all away!) so no, I won't STFU! Not now not ever! You don't like my views? Too bad for you, and any other readers of this blog who don't!

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  3. To quote Mr. T.: "FOOL!"

    To quote you (i.e., cut and paste): "The student movement showed us how a system can be brought to its knees with the mildest exercise of civil disobedience, but this discussion is premature, I shall shelve it to a time when it becomes appropriate."

    I've got news for you buddy: The time is RIGHT NOW! NOW IS THE EXACT "APPROPRIATE" TIME!

    You better believe you're all on your own, and YOU ALL HAVE IT COMING TO YOU! Where was the community when this all started? Where was the community a good 15 years ago when Howard Galganov went to bat for all of you?

    On the one hand, it is pretty pathetic when the feds didn't lift a finger to help, but on the other hand, where was everybody when the whole thing started 38 years ago, with Bill 22? WHERE THE FRIGGIN' HELL WERE YOU ALL 38 YEARS AGO? 15 YEARS AGO?

    Everybody TALKED a good fight, but when push came to shove? RIEN! NADA! BUPKIS! ZILCH!

    Trudeau had a lot to lose by stepping in Quebec to fight language and ethnocentricism, but Harper has ZILCH to lose! Will he help? Don't bet your poutine and Pepsi on it! Why should he? You never fought your own battles! Why should I? Again, big talk, no action!

    Should the fascists win again, I suggest you man your battle stations at sunrise on September 5th because history will repeat itself, or worse. You minorities make up 40% of the Quebec tax base, yet only 20% of the population! WTF IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE, YOU PUTZES? Never heard of the Golden Rule?

    Let me spell it out to your morons: "He who holds the gold, makes the rules."

    YOU hold the gold! YOU make the rules, or at least YOU bloody well should!

    It is sad that at this time the best two words were quoted by a wannabe leader who was deservedly a big, fat loser in the last general election. I shan't name him, but I'll quote his words: "RISE UP, PEOPLE! RISE UP! Take you thumbs out of your asses. DON'T JUST SIT THERE...DO SOMETHING!


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    1. Abandon Quebec, let it crash and burn WORSE than Greece and then re-conquer it and set ALL the rules.

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    2. I confess that there are moments I share your sentiments, but hopefully it won't quite come to what you wrote, at least the re-conquering part. This would just start the current problems all over again. Think Gen. Wolfe vs Gen. Montcalm, Plains of Abraham, 1759...Get the picture?

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  4. Editor,

    I have been following this blog for a while now and I can say that I am one of the longest-time regulars with the same pseudonym, beside adski. I have to say that all along these years, this is your piece that is the most emotionally loaded. I, just like most non-francophones in this province, share your sentiment. We are heading toward unfriendly waters ahead. For me personally the question may soon turn out to be to flee or to fight. But why would I fight? If I wanted to fight I could have done it in my home country. There will then time when Montreal and its pretty face is no longer enough to sustain our quest for the 'Canadian dream'.

    BTW, that is a cute cartoon you have in this piece. Where did you get it?

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    1. I've given readers food for thought and I think you're in the same position as J.J., so if you're a good wage earner or businessman, take your skills and business elsewhere so Quebec can't get as much of your tax dollars as they do now...just the equalization payments if Harper is too stupid in 2014 to turn Quebec's tap off (when the new equalization formula is destined to be set).

      Quebec have its tax base 40%> GOOD LUCK TO THEM! Hopefully those who do make the wise decision to leave will then tell Mr. Harper to cut Quebec off completely in 2014...or better still, sooner!

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    2. The cartoon comes from the separatists who are celebrating 35 years of hate.
      I tweaked it a bit, no doubt to their consternation!

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    3. Correction: Sorry, I meant to write "Quebec have its tax base cut 40%? GOOD LUCK TO THEM!"

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    4. You could have really gotten to their consternation by making the male figures all look like Blacque Jacque Shellaque, an antagonist to Bugs Bunny in the Looney Tunes cartoons, wearing blue toque (not red!), pot bellies and five o'clock shadows, zat's what you cooood 'ave done!

      http://www.google.ca/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1366&bih=643&tbm=isch&tbnid=yiwX2YPNnbvCgM:&imgrefurl=http://looneytunes.wikia.com/wiki/Blacque_Jacque_Shellaque&imgurl=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb57886/looneytunes/images/6/68/Blacque.jpg&w=400&h=300&ei=HAU7UITPMsmfyAHLgoGgDA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=386&vpy=149&dur=5969&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=129&ty=146&sig=113911705156176303778&page=1&tbnh=133&tbnw=189&start=0&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:76

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    5. Let's fight racism by using racially-charged stereotype characters! Brilliant!

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    6. Hey...why not? Racists tend to be two dimensional, animated cartoon characters are two dimensional with others speaking for them, and they're as stupid as Bacque Jacque Shellacque was made out to be. Too stoopeed to beat zee stoopid r-r-rabbeet!

      Don't like using "racially-charged stereotype" cartoon characters? Then use (barely) lifelike human hicks like the ones found in Joeja, Alabayma, Misssssippa, Hérouxville, Lac St-Jean, Saguenay....

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    7. I think yannick is offended you are painting all francophones with the same brush. Hes right, but you‘re also right about the Herouxville mongoloids.
      Most francophones aren‘t like that, “only“ the 40% who vote PQunt racist party.

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    8. Well yes, I am offended, but if it was only that I'd bite my tongue and not say anything.

      No, there's just something inherently wrong about using physically insulting stereotypes to depict members of a certain culture/ethnical background. It's a very dangerous thing to do.

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    9. J'aimerais bien voir la photo de M.Sauga l'avaleur de beignets et le friand de viande fumée.

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    10. Mr. Sauga to J.J. (and Yannick)Monday, August 27, 2012 at 3:33:00 PM EDT

      My liver bleeds cold borsht for Yannick's feelings. The PQ has been pulling that BS forever. I've heard crap like that first hand while I lived in Montreal. Maybe after all these years it's about time the separatists have it all thrown right back at them! Give the bastards a taste of their own medicine. You have what to say on that, Yannick? Spit it out!

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    11. Absolutely nothing, since you'd just make fun of my feelings anyway. They're entirely irrelevant to the discussion.

      I have to say I have never seen francophone carricatures of anglos, jews, or muslims that were drawing on physical demeaning stereotypes - like, for instance, the crooked noses one could see on Nazi propaganda or how Irishmen were depicted as ape-like in American late 19th/early 20th century cartoons.

      And it's never time to answer racism with racism - doing so only legitimizes racism in the first place! Do you think the Black rights movement got where it was today by drawing derogatory cartoons of white people?

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    12. I don't intervene often but.....
      Here is exactly what you've never seen.
      A caricature of Jews with big noses in a Quebec newspaper.

      http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/2240

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    13. Well, thanks for sharing. That's pretty disheartening.

      I still think the answer is in condemning physical stereotypes and not by answering with a whole bunch of Blaque Jacque Shelaque used to describe French-Canadians.

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    14. Troy, the cartoon comes from the MQF website, which promised a fun-filled afternoon of “outdoor francisation” yesterday. Seriously! Can you imagine anything more dreary than that? I wonder how many people went… perhaps S.R can inform us.

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    15. "Le Mouvement Québec français (MQF) est un organisme sans but lucratif qui a pour mission de faire du français la seule langue publique commune au Québec."

      Dear lord, I appologize for every time that I said that 101 was trying to preserve French, not erase English - these nutjobs come right out and say that their goal is to make French the "only common public language in Quebec"!

      Also I will have to agree with Adski and say that the original was more effective than the Editor's caricature - for instance I'm amazed to find out that the original does in fact have the "Supreme Court" with a red bar over it. Flabbergasted, really.

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    16. There's another Francophone cartoon character who is just as funny as Blacque Jacque Shellaque. He's Yvon of the Yukon:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxKUwuGbfoA

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    17. Yannick,

      Did you think that most of the people are spending time on this site just 'cause they're inconvenienced?
      Remember, while QC is in Canada, the world can at least see the disgusting hate of the not FrenchCanadian, but QuébécoisSeparatist. If this place, in whole or in part, becomes a country, it can easily slip to the depths of some of the rogue places in the world!

      Wait till you get here and they get a hold of your Acadian accent, it'll take all you've got to not completely renounce your being French.

      Either SeparatistFactory "Schools" did this or it's French. What could it be? Are you guessing, Factory?

      Sorry man..

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    18. I also agree with Adski, that the original was more effective than the Editor's. So much so that Editor was disgusted to his very soul. I think the photoshop job he did was for therapy more than to stylize it.

      A while back we spoke of the strategy of pursuing some of these crazies personally. Does anyone think there isn't enough damning official material on the many racist web sites to not have personal legal pursuits?

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    19. Editor: Thank you for showing Yannick how unworldly (provincial, really) he really is. It's OK in life to think like a moron until you open your mouth and prove it. Yannick must forget of a caricature in a Danish publication that set the Muslims ballistic over it, boycotting everything Danish for a long time.

      GD: You hit the nail right on the head re Yannick's Acadian accent. You better believe the Québécois pur laine would eat him raw and lick his bones clean like a pride of famished lions over that. Yannick, you'll NEVER be one of THEM! They'll see to that and they'll remind you at every turn everyday for the rest of your life!

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    20. I don't ridicule one's feelings, but having lived right in the middle of the battlefield, I know of what I speak. I eyewitnessed as awful lot first hand racist innueodoes, ridicule of others, me included, and threats of fights, including one little maggot I was ready, and would have almost willingly put in his grave.

      While maggots like that are still the minority, my feelings, and rights, were unjustly impinged upon, and there are more than enough of these merde maggots to go around. Like in my post immediately above this one in the second paragraph, your rights would be just as severely impinged upon. Simply put: YOU ARE NEITHER NOW, NOR EVER WILL BE QUÉBÉCOIS PUR LAINE, AND THEY WON'T LET YOU FORGET IT. CASE CLOSED!

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    21. I forget no such carricatures Sauga - but they were made by the danish while I was speaking only of French Canadians who I thought did not do such carricatures, as I had never seen them in the paper. It's of course easy to miss a week's carricatures, I don't pretend to read the French paper daily.

      To call me provincial and unworldly because of it is rather presumptuous.

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    22. Oh, come now! That Danish incident made the international news just about all over the world. I can't believe you missed it unless you were on a media fast or taking a holiday in some primitive place with no media.

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    23. I never missed the danish incident.

      I missed what the editor linked - Mario Dumont from the ADQ meeting up with Jewish donors.

      This isn't the first time you've failed reading comprehension - might I ask you to read more carefully before you jump in accusations flailing?

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    24. In fact, given that you thought it was about the Danish cartoons, I'm certain that you had no idea about it yourself. So much for being "provincial."

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  5. Od to Apparatchik, Adski & Gens DenisMonday, August 27, 2012 at 2:20:00 AM EDT



    http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorialopinion/article/1246954--canada-is-too-big-to-fail

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  6. I find myself so anxious and depressed about this upcoming election. I hope Ed is right and the Liberals can pull a rabbit out of the hat but if the CAQ come in second, I'm sure Pauline will push through her amendments to Bill 101 with no problem. Crazy old bat, just keeps right on pushing and pushing. I hope we can get our act together and pull off some kind of march against these new hateful laws that she will put in place. The separatists on this site have proven that they are totally unreasonable and nothing short of civil unrest will satisfy them. Where do we go from here?

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    1. I've got news for you, Cutie: If you consider the PLQ a safe haven, then you're suffering from Battered Spouse Syndrome, i.e., staying in an abusive relationship figuring it's better living the status quo than breaking away from the abuser. If you're getting a queasy feeling in your gizzard, do what I did in 1984: LEAVE! It might take time, but you'll feel MUCH, MUCH better once you do, trust me.

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    2. "LEAVE!"

      De plus,il n'est qu'à quelques kilomètres de l'ontario.Je crois qu'il préfère se plaindre et se lamenter comme si accuser les Québécois était devenu un sport chez les outaouains.Le nom "outaouains" me fait toujours rire...outaouains :D

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  7. There is a new Segma poll which shows a poll for the Quebec city, CAQ shown in the lead there. I have my doubts because of the comments by Legault about downsizing the bureaucracy. In a bureaucrat town like Quebec City I really doubt he would snatch the lead from the Liberals on the basis of slashing the bureaucracy. I am also surprised at how much legitmacy the mainstream media give the Leger poll conducted by polling those on an internet list.

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    1. A SMEGMA poll? Isn't smegma the filthy residue that sits in the crevices of an unclean uncircumcized penis? Most of these polls are as clean as a man with poor hygene and an uncircumcized penis!

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    2. Editor... a bit of cleanup, please.

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    3. Was there any foul language used in my comments? There are plenty of slang words for penis, but I used the correct biological term. I was being metaphoric, for God's sake! If your skin is too thin for this blog, don't read it!

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  10. "Readers, it has to do with sacrifice, something francophones are not willing to do to preserve their language and culture. For them, it is far easier to ask others, the English and Ethnics to sacrifice for them."

    Bingo. They won't sacrifice for their language, they won't even sacrifice for their "independence", instead preferring to bash their heads against the wall to work out some "partnership" with the maudit Canada, to get some "treaty", to get their dollar, their passport, to continue unobstructed exchange of goods, to keep guaranteed market shares. They won't tighten their belts (and be like frugal Swedes, for example) to start something new. In starting something new, they want to preserve the old (the comfy materialistic North American lifestyle, where a salary of 80,000$ a year is considered so so). The attachment to the old is strong enough to keep them suspended in between, which apparently can be very frustrating.


    "As those in the Rest of Canada throw their hands up in frustration, telling Quebec in effect to separate if they wish, the one million or so English Canadians here are fed to the wolves, given up upon, as if we don't matter at all."

    I don't blame them one bit. How long can one put up with nonsense? In fact, if I ever see a "federalist rally" in Montreal, where people are bussed in to proclaim their love for QC, I will be very disappointed. That's the worst thing you can do - stoke someone's ego ad infinitum...


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    1. adski-I wrote a letter to our local newspaper here in Gatineau, P.Q. about this very thing. The ROC are fed up with Quebec (and who can blame them: - whiny, spoiled, "we want everything and your blood too", attitude that they display every time they open their so-called "negotiations" with Ottawa on anything. There will be no more displays of affection from the ROC should another disgusting never-endum-referendumb come around. We will be left to fend for ourselves but I believe, should push come to shove, that our Federal government will have no choice but to protect those areas of Quebec that wish to remain in Canada. Yes, it's horrible to think we may have our own peace force on our streets but I see no other way out of this mess. There was an article in the Gazette awhile back that suggested each municipality in Quebec hold it's own referendum and ask a simple question like "are you Canadian or are you a Quebecer?" to decide who stays and who goes should they ever succeed in a whole provincial referendum. That way we could avoid civil conflict and those that vote to stay in Quebec form their own nation. Maybe a hodge-podge of areas but they will then be able to say they have their own country and the rest of us can live in peace. Wishful thinking maybe but definitely a way out of this mess.

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    2. "but definitely a way out of this mess."

      Une autre solution beaucoup plus simple:Déménagez en ontario

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    3. @cutie that is why the PQ wants to make the citizenship program cause it's already instilled in the quebecers mind that their Quebecois first and in many cases Quebecois only .

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  11. About the photoshopped picture - Editor, you didn't have to. By making is so extreme, you took away in impact. I saw this picture last week, and in original it looked worse than after your make-over.

    The worshipers of 101 do not have to be caricatured, no extra emphasis needs to be added, the sight is bad enough as it is.

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    1. Comme tout bon anglo qui se respecte,il adore les doubles couches de garniture.

      Peu importe l'issue du prochain scrutin,un grand ménage s'annonce au Québec:Préparez-vous!

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    2. SR, prepare yourself for more and more English around you, if you live in Montreal.

      I see a move to Mascouche in your future.

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    3. adski: I dunno...but I pissed off Yannick with my Blacque Jacque Shellacque suggestion, which makes me all the more determined to suggest getting his character in more political cartoons.

      To all fellow readers and contributors: S.R. is trolling again, so don't give him a wall upon which to bounce his ball! Just ignore him!

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    4. Thank you Mr. Sauga - I removed my response to him. You're right - there's a few a--holes on this blog and I will ignore them from now on!

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    5. "...there's a few a--holes on this blog"

      À qui le dites-vous? :)

      Vous devriez laisser parler votre coeur d'outaouain,c'est bien le nom des résidents de l'Outaouais,n'est-ce pas?

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    6. About the photoshopped picture - Editor, you didn't have to. By making is so extreme, you took away in impact.

      Perhaps you are right.
      Take a look at the Black character near the bottom and his bright red lips. That was not my work!
      What idiot would portray a Black person so insultingly today?

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    7. Demandez à Barack Obama et il vous répondra:50% des américains

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  12. Parlant de la "morale" des "liberals" :

    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152059645115790&set=p.10152059645115790&type=1&theater

    Incroyable mais malheureusement vrai!

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    1. Ya sure S.R.

      When the PQ talks about voting ethics? PQ tried to eliminate as many votes as they could in the non Francophone areas in 1995 Referendum. Which was well documented vs this facebook ancedote.

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  13. I just found out that anonymous posting isn't allowed, so I'll do a repost. Sorry about that.

    Here's an essay you all might find interesting concerning the justicifaction for restricting the use of a dominant language. It is written by someone form a European/Belgian background, but it also refers to the experience in Quebec and the principles it outlines are off course generaly applicable. http://www.rethinkingbelgium.eu/rebel-initiative-files/ebooks/ebook-11/Lead-Piece.pdf It is written by a Belgian francophone who is also a professor of Political Philosophy at the University of Harvard, Philippe Van Parijs. As you may or may not know, in Belgium it is French that is the dominant language and it are the Dutch-speakers who want a number of restrictions on the use of French to protect Dutch. So the put it in a Canadian perspective: this Belgian franchophone would be a Canadian anglophone. I hope this might shed some light on the sensitivities of Quebecois francophones and Belgian Dutch-speakers alike.

    Kind regards,

    Random Belgian Dutch-speaker (Flemish, as we are know)

    (The first part of the essay is on English as a worldwide lingua france, something you also might find interesting.)

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    1. I wonder what the French-speakers' solution to this "distributive injustice" is...Linguistic diversity? Think again. Their solution is to get French to replace English. In that paradigm, no more "injustice" would be perceived, because as we all know French is super cool fantastique, and the only language worthy of being the lingua franca.

      Let's be honest. Pretty much at every point in history, the world had something along the lines of the lingua franca. Latin was the lingua franca, so was French, now it's English, later it will be something else. Is it unjust for the non-native speakers? It is. What is there to do about it? As a non-native English speaker I only saw one solution - learn English. Most people in the world prefer this solution. In the French speaking world, however, there are those who'd rather attempt to restore the greatness of French instead of giving in to English.

      When you say: "the Dutch-speakers who want a number of restrictions on the use of French to protect Dutch" - can you provide a source on this? In Belgium, I believe it's the Flemish who speak 3 languages, and the French who speak one. The Flemish wanted to separate from the French-speaking part of Belgium at one point for economic reasons, but not to suppress French on their territory. So provide sources on any legalistic and state-sanctioned attempts of the Flemish to restrict the French language, I'd like to see them.

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    2. Dutch is the dominant language in Belgium, 60% of the population. French speakers only make up 38%.

      It's still a better ratio than what we have in Canada.

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    3. You're right in what you write, BP, and this is really a problem where old prejudices contain some sort of retaliation. The very same thing happened in Latvia once the old Soviet Union dissolved. In Latvia, signs had to be in Latvian with Russian absolutely forbidden, the Afrikaaners in South Africa tried to form the Orange-Free State where only Afrikaans could be spoken, posted signs in Afrikaans only, etc. etc. etc.

      These anti-anyting-but-us laws are always the result of fascism, racism and just plain ol' bigotry. There are problems in Spain with Catalin as well.

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    4. Ok, to respond to some of the points made above.

      First, there are indeed more Dutch-speakers then there are French-speakers in Belgium. Yet French has historically been the dominant languages (although it always was a numric minority ,and still is to a lesser exent then in the past). It were (and are for the most part) the Dutch-speakers who know French and not the French-speakers who know Dutch (although knowledge of French has some what declined among Dutch-speakers and the knowledge of English has increased). The history of the rise of French in Brussels at the expense of Dutch in Brussels is an interesting illustriation of the dominant position of french. Wikipedia provides a lot of information on the linguistic history of Belgium for more information in that regard. That is actually not that uncommen, in Finland for example Swedish used to be the dominant language. There are many examples of this. (Just making the point that numeric minority doesn't mean non-dominant language).

      Second point, Phillipe Van Parijs (and me) is very much in favour of one lingue franca for the world that indeed would be English. I hope that becomes clear as you read the text. What he would like to see is other languages have a measure of protection within a certain territory.

      Third point, Flanders wanting more autonomy is a mix of economic and linguistic concerns. The Flemish mouvement (the movement that wanted more recogistion of Dutch in Belgium) started of as only or mostly concerned with language and culture. Back then French was the only official language. Both goverment and businnes were run it. There were for example no Dutch language univeristies, and one of the first demands was to have at least one Dutch language univeristy. Since about the sixties it is a mix of economic and language concerns. With the language issues mostly centered in the region around Brussels were French is putting some pressure on Dutch. There are quit a number of restrictions on French in Flanders, for example all schools are in Dutch and all official documents can only be had in that language (with the exeption of a dozen or so of what are called 'Municipalities with language facilities' and even there restrictions on French have increased with the circulaire Peeters). We recently were incapable of forming a goverment for a long , which was in large measure due to what is called the BHV-electoral district, which was basically a symbolic issue about the Dutch language postion and that of French around Brussels. Furthermore you flatter us Flemings, our knowledge of French isn' t that good (although better on average then knowledge of Dutch among French speakers). I couldn't for example hold this discussion we are having now in French (and not to be unmodest my French is somewhat better then that of the average Fleming (a lot of us have a reasonbly good passive knowledge of the language).

      I hope that clears somethings up.

      Kind regards,

      A Belgian-Flemish Pol Sci student.

      For the record I am not in favour of Flemish indepence (although I am in favour of a good measure of protection for the Dutch language)

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    5. Damm I made alot of grammatical and spelling errors in this post.

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    6. Mr. Sauga.

      It is indeed true that for a number of people it might be some sort of 'historic revenge'. For most (and for me) it's is not though it's about keeping the language going in the long run. Switerland for example also uses a system of linguist territoriality, and I don't think that is because German-speaking Swiss hate the French-speakering Swiss or vice vice versa or that the Swiss are particularly fascist. (If you look at opinions on both sides in Belgium for example majorities on both want to keep the country together, a strange result if one or both sides visceraly hated the other)

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    7. From the article: "There need not be anything obnoxious or petty or insulting in taking pride in the fact that one’s mother tongue has been picked as the world’s lingua franca"

      Picked? Does a language get "picked" to be the lingua franca? I'd say the process is much more complex than just a matter of picking. The process involves some form of economic (and military) superiority as necessary preconditions.

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    8. Belgian Perspective, I'm reading the article and I'm finding it interesting for a few reasons. In general, the article smacks of Franco nostalgia for the lost days (the author's name is Phillipe after all).

      It's interesting that he's talking about an identity based on language. If you form an identity based on something that demands others to "understand" me and match me in my attachment, to the point where a mere indifference of others becomes insulting to me, is the problem with me, or is the problem with the "offending" party? I also have a hard time accepting the concept of "linguistic injustice". Economic injustice - yes, it's something real, painful, and physically measurable. Linguistic injustice? Not very measurable, and could be a result of hypersensitivity of one as opposed to the "arrogance" (word used at least 3 times by the author) of the other.

      In general, I also find it curious that amongst the crusaders against "linguistic injustice", the majority (or at least a lot of them) seem to be of the French-speaking stock, i.e. speakers of a language that by no means can be considered underprivileged. I come from a country that possessed no colonies, yet my confidence in my language seems to surpass that of some French-speakers in theirs. Is it therefore maybe a case of longing for the lost status, rather than of actual insults that a "small" language such as French stands to "suffer" on daily basis? Could be the case case of the bar being set to high by some for the French language in today's world, as opposed to an actual denigration of that language by others?



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    9. That is true. I don't know if he goes in to the history of English becoming the dominant language, but in other places he makes the point that that is less important. What is important is that we need a lingua franca, and that the fact that history has happenend to have 'picked' (not littery of course)English is less improtant. A good youtube video about his view can be found at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5vABdO3LcA

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    10. Couple of points. He is quite a lefist, what would be called a Rawlsian liberal. Surly no friend of Franco. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_Van_Parijs (Franco by the way hated the surival of other languages (he would like to have seen Basque, and Catalan and so on destroyed))

      Secondly, in Belgium it are moslty the French-speakers that are against language protection (it is french that gets restricted in Flanders). He is more the exeption then rule (although quite a number of francophones accept the linguistic territoriality principle).

      Identity is mostly based on somewhat arbitary faction. Furthermore I just like the survival of languages for its own sake (even if its not so caught up with identity (here Van Parijs disagrees)).

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    11. It's is also not about insults. It is about the fact that if you let the mechanisms he describes in the essay happen, the non-dominant language slowly witters away.

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    12. From the article: "The primary and most fundamental injustice, it is often felt and claimed, resides precisely in what this dominance expresses: a lack of respect for the ‘dominated’ languages and their native speakers, the ascription of an inferior, humiliating, insulting status to the people whose identities are closely tied to them."

      As someone who speaks English at a level close to the Native speaker, I must say that, first of all - I have no respect for all those native English speakers who look down on those who do not know their language. Second, the most frequent attitude i observed amongst English speakers to non-English speaking people was indifference, not outright disrespect. If you want to treat indifference as "disrespect", then you're on the thin line where it's hard to say whether the problem is with you or with them. Thirdly, I do have some disrespect for those non-English speakers who are obviously affected by their inability to speak English and go around denigrating the language that they do not know yet feel they should know. As a non-native English speaker who felt uncomfortable not knowing English and went about it the other way - learned it, I have to say I have no respect for people who do not learn yet obviously feel affected.

      As for non-English speakers who don't care whether they know English or not - I have only respect. They're happy with what they have, they don't let themselves be victims of the hype and trend (that the English language is), and they don't need to get their frustrations out on the English speakers.

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    13. "the non-dominant language slowly witters away. "

      This isn't always the case. Worse yet, this "argument" can serve the ruling elites as a convenient excuse for language discrimination.

      A more potent reason for the withering away of the language is a low reproduction rate, not an ascendancy of another language to the status of the lingua franca.

      In QC, you have to ask yourself a question - what is the real reason for the state-sanctioned language discrimination? Protection of a language from disappearance? Or is it a less nebulous set of reasons - economic protectionism (i.e. greed), jealousy, historical animosity, revanchism...Note that for some people in QC, the very sound of English is annoying, regardless of how many or few English speakers are around.

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    14. "Protection of a language from disappearance? Or is it a less nebulous set of reasons - economic protectionism (i.e. greed), jealousy, historical animosity, revanchism..."

      Nope, it's protection of a language.

      But it's easier to discount us if you ascribe us more nefarious purposes, I can respect that.

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    15. Adski,faites le test:Essayez une attitude d'indifférence avec vos amis ou votre femme (si vous en avez une)et dites-nous que les conséquences engendrées sont totalement différentes de celles du non respect.

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    16. adski . Here the humiliating should not be seen as coming from speakers of the dominant language directly ( in Belgium French, in Quebec maybe English, in other places maybe yet another) but from the fact that the speakers of the non-dominant can in the end almost exclusivly only use there own language in the private or home sphere (even within their historic homeland so to speak). It comes from the fact that their language has become second grade. It is indeed not an litteral attidude of menace the speakers of the dominant language might have toward the other language(s).

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    17. Damm English spelling is hard. :)

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    18. Well alot of European state have quite low birth rates, yet their language live on. And that is partly because it is in some for or another protected by the state. (It is the language of schools, of public adminstration, of political life, of economic life,...) Some European states even demand that newcomers learn their language or take a test in it before or as a condition of citizenship (somewhat harsh I think but ok...).

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    19. European stateS...French is your native tongue, isn't it?

      I agree with your logic, it's just that I don't consider French a disadvantaged language. Note that your logic can serve both as an argument to prop up "weak languages" (with which I can agree) but also as an excuse for more-or-less strong languages to attack stronger ones (or those labelled as stronger).

      If your logic were to be applied in a QC context (where French is strong) and not in the world context (where En is strong), then Cree, Algonquin, and English (5% of the population, we hear) would be promoted. That a world (and continental) context is consistently applied in the QC context and accepted by this population is a masterpiece perpetrated by QC's Jim Crow enthusiasts.

      Let's be honest, this whole thing about the French language (in Canada, the EU, Africa) is not about protecting a poor downtrodden tiny language that's on a cusp of extinction. Rather it's about restoring a colonist language to its former glory. Watch "Reconquering the Conquest" when you get a chance: http://ffh.films.com/id/6184/FFHCollections.aspx

      Or read a collection of essays written by a the prominent Quebecker "federalists" under the title: "Reconquering Canada": http://tinyurl.com/9p5ovml

      Language laws in Canada are about a restoration of status, not about an assurance of survival. Maybe the survival of privilege, if we stretch it, but not survival per se. This is why I never supported and will never support any legalistic moves on behalf of the French language. Of other languages maybe, but not the French one.

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    20. S.R,
      When one side constantly belittles, insults and harasses the other side, indifference is actually generous.

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    21. I am a Dutch speaker. And I admit I should work on my English spelling capabilities.:)

      In Belgium it are not the French speakers but the Dutch speakers that want language laws and protections. It is French that is dominant here.

      I am less comfortable commenting on the Quebec situation seeing that I know less about it. Thought I would like to suggest that until restriction were placed on it, English was very much on the rise at the expense of French in Quebec suggesting that English might indeed be the more dominant language in Quebec. (As I said before numeric minority doesn't necessarly mean non-dominant language) But do correct me if I am mistaken.

      Furthermore I find it somewhat hard to believe that the average Quebecer has imperial ambitions for his of her language. But again you all might know this situation better then me.

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    22. Well, ever since the conquest, English has been the language of money in Canada/Quebec. In the 1960's, I'm told (I wasn't born then) that it was very common for a bunch of francophones to work at the bottom of a business and for the management being in English, leading to all the documentation, etc... being in English even if the business was predominantly staffed with Francophones. I'm also told that Francophones were not allowed to talk to each other in French on the shop floor (I've been told not to when I used to work in Moncton myself) since the management types don't like the workers being able to speak to each other without them understanding. I'm also told that it was often impossible for a francophone to rise above the rank of foreman.

      There's no doubt that things have improved tremendously in Canada, Quebec and New-Brunswick in that regard due to the protest movements in the 60-70's.

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    23. Of course 101 takes things too far on the other side - it tells anglophones that they're not allowed to communicate in English to each other in a business with more than 100 employees. I can understand making a law that Francophones have the right to communicate in their place of employment in French (depending on circumstances), but outlawing other languages is too much.

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    24. In Flanders(where it, just to reiterate, is French that gets restricted to protect Dutch) restrictions of private use of languages might be less severe then in Quebec. There are for example no laws about the use of language on private signs (although a small number of Muncipalities have regulations that have the same effect). On the other hand Flanders does have stricter limits of use of language in the public administration, all documents are in Dutch, all schools are in Dutch. All courts are also in Dutch (interpreter can of course be provided in the courts for those who don't know the language and a small exception exist arounds Brussels). (With the exception of small
      number of 'Municipalities with language facilities' where you can get documents and schooling in French) I gather that these sort of restrictions on English don't exist in Quebec (where public documents, education and courts are partly aavailable in English). What the right mix of public and/or private measures is, is debatable but I am as you may have notticed vary much in favour of some set of measures to protect languages (in this case Dutch against French).

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    25. For education, it is only English Canadians who have studied in English elsewhere in Canada or in Quebec who have the right for Anglophone primary & secondary schools. Everyone else has to go to Francophone schools, which I have always thought was a normal thing to do.

      Tell me your perspective - are Italians immigrating to Flanders allowed to enroll in French schools?

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    26. @Belgian Perspective, I didn't mean to pick on your English, which I think is really good. I just pointed out that the mistake you made (using singular instead of plural), is a typical mistake French speakers make when writing in English. It's because they don't pronounce 's' at the end of nouns so sometimes when they write in English they skip the 's' (they write as they would pronounce)

      When you talk about school restrictions in Flanders, do you mean to say that French schools actually exist in Flanders and access to them is restricted based on parental language, or is just just a case of formality (like in my country where the law states that public education is in one language, but it's sort of irrelevant because no alternative exists)?

      If French schools in fact exist in Flanders and the interested parties are prevented from attending (instead being railroaded into the Flemish system), then I am against it. I think the interested parties should be allowed to study in French, and the Flemish should be proud enough not to take it personally, and find ways to make Dutch more attractive instead of resorting to state coercion.

      And as you probably can guess, I totally disagree with Van Parijs's idea of "linguistic territoriality regimes". A framework for "language-assertion" already exists through national statehood in the EU, and it shouldn't be something controlled by Brussels. So my country, being a rather anglophile EU member from Eastern Europe, shouldn't be coerced to curb the instruction of English (Van Parijs does hint that when the lingua franca becomes taught so well as to assure a general popular fluency, that's not good, but that's what the govt of my country is pursuing) only to strengthen the interests of German or French languages, or any other languages that are seeking dominance. I think that if Brussels started to exert this sort of pressure and this sort of micromanagement, the Union would break up in no time.

      Also, reading up on Van Parijs I came across a concept of the "language tax", a tax that would be required to be paid by "linguistically strong" countries to the "linguistically weak" ones. The concept is totally insane to me, and a way to get at the English-speaking countries. Again, the minute such nonsense would come to fruition, so would end the European Union.

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    27. Going back to your 3:11PM comment, Yannick: "...things have improved tremendously in Canada, Quebec and New-Brunswick..." How have things improved, and for whom?

      In Quebec, there is now protectionism being practiced in the public sector. What Anglos can get a job? Even in the Quebec military, they suppress non-Francophones. Based on that, what you're stating is it's better for Francophones!

      What kills me is Quebec makes a poor captain of industry in the private sector, and this is where the jobs should come from. Jews suffered terrible discrimination when they came over, so many started their own businesses. As they became better educated, they started their own hospitals enabling doctors and nurces to practice medicine and nursing; Jews started their own law firms where the WASPs didn't want Jews; they started their own accounting firms because the WASPy Clarkson Gordons, Price Waterhouses, Deloitte Haskins & Sells and Touche Rosses of the world didn't want Jews.

      What bastion was left? The public sector, and the way it's being mismanaged, it won't be long before RREGOP won't buy eggs, toast and coffee for your three squares a day! RREGOPers now are living the life, many having retired by age 55, or sooner! Now the government had to change the rules to make it muck less desirable, impossible really, to retire in one's 50s.

      Worse yet, new entrants into the government can't get full-time jobs, even if that means just 5 hours per week less (one hour per day). At 30 hours per week, there are far fewer benefits the older workers thoroughly enjoyed. This is partially why students are rebelling. They want in on the gravy their parents and grandparents got, but that train has left the station, and they're pissed.

      Now for the language crap, and that's exactly what it is. Who's to stop anyone from speaking French? If you want to speak it, nobody's stopping you; however, an interesting story came to light at my work. I work by a fellow from the Ivory Coast and a Québécoise pur laine. Both were saying, with their heavy accents, it's actually easier to work in English than French! When I was working part-time as a student for Pascal's in the 70s, there were some fluently bilingual workers in the store who did admit English is easier to speak than French, and they were mother tongued in French!

      I have worked on bilingual teams, and I saw attrocious written grammar, missing accents, etc. I used to get big red slashes in my school work by my teachers if I forogt an accent, and here they are not putting them in left, right and centre. Apparently it's because the keys are seen as a big pain in the neck by Francophones, but c'est la langue française! Notice I used 135 for the ç? French verbal grammar sucks as well. Either learn the language properly, or kill it! Fill or kill! C'est tout!

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    28. "Who's to stop anyone from speaking French?"

      My boss, or any other boss, when he says "don't speak French."

      "I work by a fellow from the Ivory Coast and a Québécoise pur laine. Both were saying, with their heavy accents, it's actually easier to work in English than French!"

      As interesting as your annecdotes are, I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with them.

      "How have things improved, and for whom?"

      Things have improved for Francophones in general. I can't comment too much on Quebecers, I'll let them do that on their own, but as for us NBers we now have schools, a university in Moncton, public services, and our own health board. Why were those things not available before? Because the democracy was controlled by the majority, and they never spent any money on our needs, or of course they would provide English-only services/education and wonder why we weren't happy with that like everyone else.

      Did you know that prior to the 60's my grandfather still had to learn in a French school using English manuals, without knowing English? Do you think it would be fair if the only manuals provided in English school in Quebec were all in French, with the exception of English class? Did you know that in the 60's francophone areas still had no access to high schools?

      For all that the people here like to blame the catholic church, they were the only ones setting up hospitals, schools, high schools, and the colleges that became our first university; all of it without any public funds. If it was not for them, our education system would have been even more terrible than it was.

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    29. @Mich B. Flemish are a number of variaties of Dutch spoken in Flanders. The written standard is exactly the same as the written standard in other Dutch speaking countries (Netherlands,Suriname,...). Let a native speaker of Flemish-Dutch, like me, tell you that. :)

      @adski In Flanders there are no French language schools with execeptions in a dozen or so 'Municipalities with language facilities' were there are french language schools which anyone can go to. (But there are very few of such municipalities and no flemish political party wants to increase the number of them) So Dutch is that langauge of schools by law. Again not so uncommon in Europe were most states set the language of the schools by law.

      Van Parijs is very much in favour of spreading the lingua franca to all. He thinks everybody should have (near-)native skill in the language. (He even supports the ending of all dubbing of English-language films in those countries that do that and replacing it by subtiteling so that people can learn English even easier. He is right to think that is a good way of spreading English, I also learned English through watching films and series mostly.) But at the same time he wants states to have the right to protect their own language, by for exemple having all their schools (who of course also teach everbody the lingua franca (in this world English)) in the national language or by mandating that everbody who settles in the country learn that language, and/or by having public adminstration run in it and so on...

      I must say that I am in favour of states having the right of forcing newcomers (either by law or by only having schools in a certain language or by some other mechanism) to learn their language, especially if the newcomers speak a dominant language. Because otherwise mechanisms like the maxi-mini and others Van Parijs describes will in the long run push away the non-dominant native language from the public sphere and make it very much a language of the private family scence and eventually might even completly end the language, not of course as a willed effect of the actions of the dominant language speakers but as a unhappy side-effect.

      I am also against the language tax.

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    30. Just for those interested 2 videos where Philippe Van Parijs sets out his ideas about language justice and policy.

      One in English: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5vABdO3LcA

      And one in French, une vidéo en francais : http://www.college-de-france.fr/site/anne-fagot-largeault/la_justice_linguistique_en_eur.htm

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    31. Yannick: "Nope, it's protection of a language."

      But even Van Parijs disagrees with you and agrees with me. He writes:

      "The aim is not, as such, to guarantee the survival of a vulnerable language, but to secure the equal dignity of the identity associated with it. And for this objective to be achieved, it is not enough that survival of the language should be secured. The latter must also be enabled to function in top position, i.e., as the public language of its native speakers’ political community."

      So the "survival" is an excuse to secure dominance. Van Parijs doesn't call it out for what it really is, but that's what it is. The languages used to achieve dominance by economic and military superiority, but in today's politicized world some try to achieve this result by political manoeuvrings and meanderings.

      Essentially, the logic is: "help me survive, but keep in mind that I'll survive only if I'm the lord of the manor. I can't just be allowed to live and prosper, I also have to rule and manage."

      I am all about aiding survival and lending a helping hand, but I have a problem when it involves granting more than rights, when it involves granting privileges, special status, unique treatment, distinct consideration. I see all these as a weaselly political way to get ahead, not to help a culture survive and flourish.

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    32. "In Flanders there are no French language schools with execeptions in a dozen or so 'Municipalities with language facilities' were there are french language schools which anyone can go to. (But there are very few of such municipalities and no flemish political party wants to increase the number of them) So Dutch is that langauge of schools by law."

      So Dutch is the language of schools by law and by relative absence of alternative institutions, sort of like in my country. The law is there not to direct people to specific systems, but to formalize the existing and the only system. In QC, where there are alternatives, the law serves not so much to formalize as to engineer loyalties and culture.

      I can meet you half way on this. I can accept the states' attempts to preserve the status quo. I do however have a problem when states try to engineer a new reality. So when an immigrant asks that an institution be built for him (like an immigrant to Tokyo demanding that an English school be built for his children, or an immigrant to Flanders insisting that a French school be built), the state in within its right to reject the request and even laugh the claimant out of the room. However, when the institution is physically present and historically grounded, then the restriction of access to it is nothing but a destructive attack. Because there is a difference between refusing to construct and moving to destroy.

      In QC, we have a network of existing institutions to which access is barred administratively. I, as an immigrant, could be standing in front one, being able to touch it, but not be allowed to enter it. You can repeat "the state has the right" like a broken record, but a more pertinent question is: are there ethical grounds to disagree with the state's "right" in this case? (where state's "right" is synonymous with "simply having the power to do"). I think there are pretty ample grounds for that.

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    33. "So Dutch is the language of schools by law and by relative absence of alternative institutions, sort of like in my country. The law is there not to direct people to specific systems, but to formalize the existing and the only system. In QC, where there are alternatives, the law serves not so much to formalize as to engineer loyalties and culture."

      Perhaps right now - but it will forever stay this way. Why? Because the Flemish know that if they build French schools and allow people to attend them, then people who come to live with them might not bother to learn their language. Why would they shoot themselves in the foot like that? Better not to have any French schools at all, they'll think.

      The problem with this approach is that it limits labour mobility between the two nations that form Belgium. For instance, in Canada, if I want to live in Vancouver I might not get any French services, but I at least know that my children will receive education in French and won't lose their language; not so if there was only English schools to choose from.

      I have to admit I'm quite perplexed that you'd prefer for there to be no schools than for immigrants to be compelled into the schools of the official language, even to the detriment of the members of the other linguistic community of the country.

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    34. @adski Indeed, here Van Parijs and I do part roads, I like the protection of language also for its own sake, he only likes it in relation to identity. I also think Yannick was trying to say that it was not for the more nefarious motives that were listed (greed, hate,...) that he supports lanuage protection, but just for its own sake (maybe also in relation to identity (you'll have to ask him)).

      Something of the nature you describe did happen in Flanders. It used to be the case that all univeristy in Belgium were only in French (also in Flanders) and that also even most high schools were in French. These were all Dutchified. So now there are non of those left (with the exeption of the allready mentioned 'municipalities with language facilities' were there are high school in french).

      I must say that I do support the policy of asking newcomers and dominant language speakers to go to native language schools and not dominant language schools because otherwise all the mechanism of Van Parijs will play out.

      I liked this discussion and find it good that we did find quite a bit of common ground.
      Hope you like it too. I won't be able to answer anymore, for awhile atleast.

      So all the best to y'all!

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    35. @ Yannick Well it's the same for other newcomers, whatever their mother tongue they all end up going to Dutch language schools. And if I move to the francophone part of Belgium, if I were to have kids, they would have to go the French language schools.
      But if it is any conciliation in all Dutch language school they also teach french for a couple of hours a week (I think it is between 3-7 maybe 8) mandatory (Dutch on the other hand is not mandatory in most french language schools (but that's another story)).

      Cheers!

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  14. About birthrates… I will put it into a more human-reptilian perspective on a planetary scale, I know it’s going sound somehow ridiculous but the analogy is quite relatively similar…Let’s just say if humans are the predominant beings living on earth, facing a slump in low birth-rate per family, and let’s just say, there is a growing reptilian community that co-lives with humans, reproducing themselves at a higher rate percentage than humans, based on this logic, even if humans have enacted a law ensuring the protection of their predominance and existence on this planet, they will still be doomed to lose their status as being the majority due to their lack of care in term of reproducing themselves, thus enabling reptilians to outnumber them and set up for a takeover of the planet in the long run …So no matter what happens, if people in a particular ethnic group, race or community, are not willing to make any effort in reproducing themselves at a sustaining level, I’m afraid that within the next few generations, they are going to pay the price as a result of their unwillingness and carelessness to multiply and raise children… Corrupted and decadent societies have often been bounded to downfalls and you can actually tell looking back in human history…

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. One could argue that the last thing the world needs is more humans. We're already at 7 billions now - if we don't stop reproducing soon, and take those numbers to a fraction of what they are, we will all understand Malthusian thought very well in the future.

      Delete
    2. Where you plant a beautiful flower a noxious weed can't grow

      Delete
  15. The PQ better not be counting their eggs too quickly. Recent poll done in Québec City shows the CAQ 34%, Libs 29% and PQ at 24%. If this is in the belly of the lion region and we all know the PQ have no way of winning the Montreal region, I doubt they will win.

    In fact, I predicted a couple of weeks ago that they will come in 3rd.
    CAQ will form a minority Gov't with a Liberal opposition and the PQ will be in 3rd. This is what I predict. Hope I'm right !!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The PQ is strong in the rural areas as well as in the suburbs of Montreal where they lead, I'm told.

      Delete
  16. Me too! Still hoping for the Liberals but your prediction makes more sense.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. To the Editor: Is there any way you can keep the separatists off the blog at least until after the election is over? They only come here to insult us, call us names, tell us to move, etc. They add nothing positive to the discussion or offer any concrete solutions because they are not interested in building bridges at all. Thank you for your consideration to my request - they just make me angry and nothing else.

      Delete
    2. To Jacques Beau Vert (Friday's thread):

      "Ethnic cleansing is a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group."

      Here is one of the definitions of ethnic cleansing from Wikipedia:
      "The idea in ethnic cleansing is to get people to move, and the means used to this end range from the legal to the semi-legal."

      This definition fits Quebec precisely. There is soft ethnic cleansing of Anglophones going on in Quebec.

      Delete
    3. Exactly at Durham. You took the words right out of my mouth. Thanks!

      Delete
  17. I would tone it down with the Nazi talk. I mean Bill 101 is not the gas chambers of Auschwitz but...

    other than that: YES!

    It's time for Quebeckers to do what really needs to be done to protect their culture: have kids.

    A nationalist who doesn't have at least three kids is not helping.

    Of course, then would ensue the thorny issue of WHY people are not having at least three kids.

    This is why it is politically incorrect to suggest the obvious.

    We would have to examine all kinds of mores, values and behaviours that would open a Pandora's Box.

    But it's still true.

    The other thing is: Anglos must stop voting Liberal.

    Anglos who vote Liberal remind me of the girl who sleeps around and thinks she's popular but she's really the object of derision.

    Yeah, you'll stop getting a lot of action if you do that, but at least you won't be getting f*cked.

    Seriously, if Liberals lose the Anglo vote, they will take notice.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. THE LIBERALS HAVE JUST TAKEN NOTICE. JEAN CHAREST JUST ASKED THE FEDERAL GOVT. TO APPLY BILL101 TO ALL FEDERAL INSTITUTIONS IN QUEBC

      Delete
    2. I just found an article on this.

      http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/elections/french-workplace-law-should-be-extended-to-federal-businesses-in-quebec-charest-says/article4502708/comments/

      Some readers' comment are pretty good. Especially this one:

      Ravensbud

      4:31 PM on August 27, 2012

      Quebec is "special". Curly must think he is "special" too. Here I always thought that T.O. was "special". I hear that First Nations people want to be "special". Gays and Lesbians consider themselves "special". Muslims think they are "special" There must be many more that are "special". I guess as an "ordinary" old guy I will just have to get used to all these "special" people.

      Delete
    3. @ Suzanne: And who do you suggest we vote for? All the rest are separatists so we only have one obvious choice.

      Delete
    4. @anonymous: That is ridiculous! Since when should the Federal Government impose provincial laws on their institutions? Every department in Hull would have a list of transfers a mile long and again the separatists would get what they want - a mass exodus of Anglophones. Boy, I sure hope that isn't allowed.

      Delete
    5. What strikes me about Charest's retake of an old Bloc/NDP proposal is that the federal institutions in QC would come under 101 and thus operate in French-only (or "predominantly"), BUT the federal institutions outside QC would continue to operate bilingually and treat French and English equally.

      I know there probably is the usual spin to justify this (French needs protection, French is what makes Canada special, etc...), but this hypocrisy almost jumps at my throat.

      Delete
    6. That already exists. he's just trying to get a few soft nats on board because the Léger poll has not been been called out for the crap that it is. Even the English media has taken it as the gospel! Where the hell is Crop?

      Delete
    7. Adski - that is not how federal institutions work. The only ones to operate bilingually are in Ottawa and New-Brunswick, perhaps a few in Quebec. The rest operate unilingually in French (Quebec) or unilingually in English (RoC).

      They are required to have a few staff members who can serve French clients if they offer services, and the management positions require french to correspond with offices that operate in French, but those represent 5% of all jobs in the West and in non-NB atlantic Canada.

      Delete
    8. Obviously they do not operate uniligually in French in QC if some want to push 101 onto them. If they did operate in French-only already, 101 wouldn't be necessary for their "francisation". The G&M piece states clearly:

      "Bill 101 guarantees employees the right to work in French in organizations with 50 or more employees, and outlines a program of “francization” for workplaces that do not comply. It does not currently apply to federal agencies, or businesses operating under federal law in industries such as banking, transportation and telecommunications."

      As for the double standard, the article touches upon it too, where Charest makes a claim that the case of QC is "special".

      "Critics of the idea (Quebec Liberal MP Stéphane Dion, for one) point out it would undermine French rights in other parts of Canada, where some already argue English should be the only language required for federal institutions. But as he often does, Mr. Charest pointed out Quebec is a special case."

      So I agree with Dion. If you go the "francisation" way in QC, get ready for "anglicisation" in the RoC, even if it affects only 5% of jobs (the percentage is irrelevant, the principle is), even it involves petty stuff like cutting the requirement "to have a few staff members who can serve French clients if they offer services", and the requirement that "the management positions require french to correspond with offices that operate in French". Everything goes, essentially. It's tit for tat. Anglicisation in full swing, along with the signage in French reduced to half size (101 stipulates it for companies, recently my colleague's company was raided and even coloring of labels was cited as having to be brighter in color for French, not just the size).

      And please Charest, don't give me this "Quebec is a special case" nonsense (I can't believe I voted for this dweeb yesterday in anticipated voting). If there is one thing I'll always hate the PQ for, it's for pushing me to vote for the first time in these silly QC elections, and voting for a silly party like the PLQ.


      Delete
    9. "Obviously they do not operate uniligually in French in QC if some want to push 101 onto them. If they did operate in French-only already, 101 wouldn't be necessary for their "francisation"."

      Yet, according to the federal government itself, here is the locations in which work is done bilingually :

      What is a bilingual region for language of work purposes?

      In a region designated bilingual for language of work purposes, federal institutions must ensure that the work environment is conducive to the effective use of both official languages and that their employees may exercise the right to use either language, subject to the obligations to serve the public and other employees.

      the National Capital Region
      parts of Northern and Eastern Ontario
      the Montreal area
      parts of the Eastern Townships, Gaspésie and Western Quebec
      New Brunswick


      The rest of Quebec operates in French only, and the Rest of Canada operates in English only.

      Of course applying 101 in Quebec means that those offices in Gatineau, Montreal, etc.. would not be required not to operate bilingually but only in French. That's why they're going for it.

      Delete
  18. "BUT the federal institutions outside QC would continue to operate bilingually and treat French and English equally."

    Vous ne voyagez pas beaucoup au canada,n'est-ce pas adski?

    ReplyDelete
  19. I just sent him an e-mail telling him what I thought of the idea. Probably won't get a response (except the usual "thank you etc.") but had to get it off my mind. Kind of told him off but I'm sure it will never reach him personally.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @Yannick - I used to work in the Federal Government in procurement of ships and aircraft and let me inform the separatists that the companies that deal in technical manuals and/or specifications for any job they bid on, request the documents in English because they can't understand the French translation of the same thing. We used to get it in writing from these companies that they required the documents in English and that's what was provided. Big shock for the separatists - wait until they try buying equipment for their new Armed Forces (which they will be expected to have as a new country) and everything is in English until they pay millions to have it translated, not to mention the time factor, which is a huge!

      Delete
  20. Charest asked for bill 101 to be extended to federal institutions because he knows that he doesn't have to actually implement what he says as he has no power to do so. Its just some useless election rant to get the soft pur laine chauvanist vote.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Time for Charest and the PLQ to go IMHO. Requesting the federal govt to impose Bill 101 requirements on its civil servants is what I expect from Marois and the PQ, not from the QLP. 25% of federal civil servants work in the national capital region work in Gatineau, are these people and their respective departments who serve the whole country and who are largely English speaking supposed to be only permitted to work and write in French? Absurd! Charest knows this very well but it didn't stop him making the request- a sign of political desperation and a very cheap shot, akin to hiring extra tongue troopers when he feels under pressure.

    ReplyDelete
  22. That's kind of what I told him in my e-mail. I informed him that he had lost a lot of his base due to the fact that he never stands up for us and this kind of thing is just what the damn separatists want - not his voter base. Reasonable Francophone Canadians are quite happy with Bill 101, don't expect that it will be pushed on the Federal Government and do not want Pauline Marois tweaking it any more. I realize what he's trying to do but I think it's the wrong message to his faithful voters.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. don't be faith full Cutie vote for caq. Charest is done .what we need now is to clean up and dump those laggards,,suckers of the system.If CAQ gets in with a majority vote from the allo anglo vote then it will prove that we do have influence.time for the Libs and the Pq to go .some one has to go in there strong and make the change

      Delete
  23. Its interesting that for the first time I can recall, there is an alternative Quebec provincial party to the traditional PLQ and PQ party whose leader is an ex-PQ minister but who states very clearly that he and the party are not seeking separation or sovereignty negotiations in the coming term/decade and simply want to focus on the Quebec economy, clean up govt, maintain the linguistic status quo and work within the framework of Canada. Legault may not the most appealing persona, he's rather blunt speaking, and is in all likelihood a soft separatist, but he does not seem to be oily, peddling false promises etc. He may be the best choice for Quebec for the coming term. In short, moderates with an interest in better government for Quebec, whether francophone or anglophone, may have a popular party to vote for who is simply interested to deal with the practical issue of a large debt burden and during this campaign has not resorting to promises to try to win over hardline xenophobic separatists as have Charest (very foolish) or Marois (a very scary person to have as a premier on so many levels).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You are forgetting that five more years of Libs will hurt the racists WAY More than it will the EnglishLanguage. By 2017 the seps might be fragmented enough to allow two parties to fight it out over real issues for once..

      Also remember that JJC gets countless death threats. I wonder how many of us could live that way. most folks won't even fly OurCountry's Flag out side the home or have a flag sticker on the car..

      Delete
  24. Oh wonderful... now NB will get to enjoy some of that CLASSE joy too!

    http://www.capacadie.com/actualites/2012/8/26/la-classe-debarque-au-n-b#.UDqniJ7bpcI.facebook

    ReplyDelete
  25. Forcing Federally chartered companies like Bell and Air Canada to abandon bilingualism and work in French only will just expedite their move down the 401 to business friendly Toronto, taking their Québécois occupied jobs with them. Why do they make it so hard for business to succeed here? Jean Charest, you just lost my vote.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. From the dread

      You are absolutely right, My friend. I can't believe when I hear Marois complaining about the exodus of companies heading their way to T.O. and How much she'd like them to stay in MTL. Extending Bill 101 will just not help the cause and will only make matters worst that they are right now...The more I see it, the more I realize that they simply just don't give a F!@# about the economy. They think very narrowly and most importantly, Stupidly. No wonder why the economy is going downward spiral!

      Delete
  26. FROM ED BROWN
    The Catholic Church got rich in Quebec through the use of Nuns and Christian Brothers. Hundreds of thousands of Nuns living in cells producing sellable articles. Nuns and Brothers used for teachers. The Church collected standard budget from the government for the teachers salaries but the teachers received only food and lodging. I recall a brother from the French high school in Verdun complaining that if he needed shoes for example he had to aapply to his Bishop for the money. The nuns boarded in convents got their bread and butter for their work. English Catholic worked pretty much the same but protestants built their own schools. I recall my grandfather sold school bonds in Verdun to build a high school. Some schools in the protestant board were named after the wealthy business man who had donate the money to build it. A good example is the 'Boy's Farm' at Shawbridge the cottages where the boys were housed were named Lindsay (pianos) Birk's (Jewellers) Dawson (paper) McCall (steel) etc. Ed

    ReplyDelete
  27. FROM ED BROWN
    Anony moose, Who are you voting for . Jean Charest or your Liberal representative. Here in Verdun we have a wonderful man in Henri Gautrin. @8 years of devoted service. Jean Charest is not the Liberal party. I'm sick of hearing people say they will not vote for him because of what he didn't do for English. As a PQ member Legault tried to destroy Engkish.
    Have you heard him say no referendum at all. If he is really a Fedealist why does he keep the option for a referendum. The rest of us Federalists have sworn allegiance to our country, why can't Legault do the same. Jean Charest makes it clear he is a Federalist.
    For God's sake people think.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Charest just announced that he wants Bill 101 to be expanded to the federal level in Quebec. Okay, that's it. That's the final straw. I was going to vote Liberal, but Charest just pulled the last and final stunt against Anglos, Allos, and Federalists in this province. That is it. My vote is going to the CAQ.

    Why are we worrying about the PQ getting into power when we should be worrying about the Liberals getting into power as well. He goes around calling Legault a cryto-separatist. Yet he himself tries to screw his own supporters.

    Okay currly. Time for you to go. Enough is enough.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. AnonymousTuesday, August 28, 2012 12:56:00 AM EDT above says:

      [Charest just announced that he wants Bill 101 to be expanded to the federal level in Quebec. Okay, that's it. That's the final straw. I was going to vote Liberal, but Charest just pulled the last and final stunt against Anglos, Allos, and Federalists in this province. That is it. My vote is going to the CAQ.]

      I don't buy it! Anon's a Sep trying to split the vote for the PQ racists.
      Nice try Anon12:56, but I'm going with the JJC Libs without reservation!
      If CAQ realy wanted to win, they'd renounce and promise that they are not SEPARATISTS!

      Delete
    2. @Anon 12:56:00 AM EDT

      CAQ might just turn out to be a bigger disappointment than the PLQ. Legault is a former pequiste after all. I don't have much hope for him and his party.

      Delete
  29. GensDenis: Go check out the comment section on the Montreal Gazette webpage. Almost every ANGLOPHONE commenter now says this single campaign promise has pushed them from Liberal over to CAQ (or any party BUT the Liberals). I would have never voted for the schmuck anyway, but after this latest promise? Crap, I would seriously not vote for him if you handed me $100 to vote Liberal. YES, I AM ANGLOPHONE. AND YES, I AM NOT KIDDING, THAT IS HOW MUCH I HATE THE MAN AND HIS PARTY.

    Charest is officially toast, if he had even the most remote chance of winning, this just killed it. Game over man, game over!

    PQ = 69 seats. CAQ = 48 seats. PLQ = 36 seats.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. GensDenis is absolutely right! I don't trust Legault at all. He and Pauline will get together for a referendum whether we like it or not. I'm still voting Liberal.

      Delete
    2. Pourtant ces deux Seppies vont prendre le pouvoir le 4 Septembre :)

      Delete
  30. So it's official with the latest CROP poll that Charest is indeed running in 3rd place and that Forum poll last week was a fluke. If more support keeps bleeding from the Liberals, we might end up with a CAQ minority govt.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Stephen Harper ne viendra pas aider Jean Charest

    http://tinyurl.com/8noqzmg

    :D

    ReplyDelete
  32. FROM ED BROWN
    PM Harper announced he was making sure that Quebec Federal offices would be French. All Charest did was jump the gun on him so he could take the credit with sepratists. He is still our only hope.
    Anonymous says he hates the man (Charest) and his party. Such harsh language sounds PQ. I wonder if anonymous is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Perhaps that's the reason he won't take an identity. Ed

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @Ed - We never know when reading these comments but I think you're right. If Legault comes in above Charest, he will be more than glad to support PQ policies regarding Bill 101 and all the other crazy demands that these separatists want. We need another provincial federalist party to have a choice but right now only the Liberal party is who we should be voting for. And thank you Ed I have learned a lot of history from you since coming across this blog. My Liberal MP is OK also and that's who I vote for.

      Delete
    2. Is Harper frenchifying offices in Quebec so he can turn around and Anglicize the ones in Ontario and NB?

      Delete
    3. Read a Gazette article where Charest said there were no changes being pushed by him (backtrack) and harper says he would look into it. So what we will see is the status quo

      Delete
    4. @Yannick - that would be political suicide for him and he knows it. As it is, he will have a very hard time justifying the imposition of Bill 101 on the civil servants that work in Gatineau as most of them reside in Ontario. Someday we will fight back and this could be the start of it. I hope the civil servants tell him to shove it. It's bad enough that we residents have to put up with the BS.

      Delete
  33. One thing about this election if Liberals don;t win, is to see a partition movement no matter which Quebec party wins. I mean being part of Quebec hinders the minorities. I know SR and the rest of the Pur Laines want us to actually leave. I want to take our minority majority areas with us. Imagine a Quebec minus all the areas where minorities are a majority and most of the 40% of their tax revenue. I think a partition movement would even get some funding from those that have ex patted Quebec.


    The Quebec Solidaire candidate for Laurier Dorion is sending his flyers out in english.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes Jarry I would like to see a partition movement for sure. We started one in this area back in 1995 after the last referendum but unfortunately a lot of people lost interest when things quieted down. I'm sure some of the old timers are still around and I hope that happens again. I'm so tired of all this uncertainty every time these separatists come to power. As you can see from the comments here, they won't stop pushing us until they get their own country. In the Outaouais, there will definitely be a demand to remain a part of Canada and I'm sure at least 3/4 of the population will be in favour of it. Wonder where Guy Bertrand is now that we need him again?

      Delete
    2. Imagine the nerve of sending his flyers out in English - as though that's going to gain him some votes.

      Delete
  34. I have a Question for some of you who have lived in Quebec prior to 1977. Were Provincial road signs bilingual all over Quebec or just in certain areas? Wanted to know if it is similar to bilingual signage on Ontario provincial roads.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Probably Ed can answer but, if I remember correctly, they were bilingual. I remember I commented that it was dangerous to have them in one language only when they were switched to French. Just can't remember when it happened - as with all of these things, it's done without fanfare and hopefully not noticed so people can register complaints.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Yes, for the most part, and especially Montreal was bilingual (several videos of the city, and photos even on this blog prove this).
    For those of you who wish to protest against this discriminatory law, please join us in the Quebec Office of the English Language, we have three days of protest coming up.
    Thank you,
    Hugo Shebbeare
    Spokesperson
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/QuebecOfficeEnglishLanguage/
    Great post Editor - indeed Govt sanctioned hatred.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you for the above information. I have joined and signed the petitions.

      Delete
    2. By the way Mr. Shebbeare, anyone in the Outaouais connected to this organization? I live in Gatineau and would love if we could do something here such as you people are going to do in Montreal. Thank you for any info you can provide.

      Delete
    3. @Cutie

      Dès que se pointe à l'horizon une fièretée nationale Québécoise ou une tentative pour notre peuple de se tenir (debout), les très émotifs politiquement anglos se déchaînent et montrent enfin leur vrais visages.
      Je connais bien l'autre partie du Canada de même que leurs frères de sang Québécois pour avoir vécu et travaillé partout dans cet autre pays , je les côtoie encore tous les jours et ai appris à connaître leurs qualités et leurs défauts, et je ne suis plus ni surpris , ni choqué par leurs véritables états d'âmes.

      J'ai observé depuis mon enfance que le trait de caractère qui unit tous les descendants Britaniques est l'hypocrisie celui qui nous unit tous nous les Québécois est la peur.

      Alors comme pour un mariage forcé lorsque la mariée veut partir , le mari sort les armes , soit les menaces, la peur, les promesses , et la mariée (qui ne l'est pas vraiment) succombe par peur ou sentiment de culpabilité...

      Le tout est de savoir quand la mariée aura le courage de partir pour de bon sans se laisser intimider,car i''Il vaut toujours mieux vivre libres comme une majoritée qu'attaché comme minoritée.

      Connaissez-vous dans l'histoire une minoritée qui s'est épanouie dans une majoritée au sein d'un même pays aussi bon soit-il?

      Delete


  37. My issue with bill 101 is that it assumes French Quebecers do not want to remain French. It forces all French to send their kids to French school. They have no choice in the matter.

    How can you defend French when you presuppose the people you are defending would go against your laws, if not in place ?

    I’m not saying the French de souche would all send their kids to English school, given the choice. I don’t. But I do think that if the nataionalists claim they are only trying to protect their culture, then the French should have the right to choose. Trust those you claim to represent and defend.

    My version of bill 101 would be that new arrivals be obliged to send their kids to French school for two generations (yes, generations). Everyone here over two generations can select which language schooling they want for their kids. So, the French de souche could choose.

    I still think the majority would send their kids to French-only schooling, but I also think a lot of bilingual schools would emerge – truly bilingual ones with English and French kids. I think this would be great ! Kids on both sides could truly learn the language, without accents, and understand the other culture. Cultures would evolve and I believe they would respect each other.

    Once you truly get to know someone on a respectful basis of exchange, it’s hard to be racist or extremist against them. I suspect most nationalists have little real contact with anglos or allos.


    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. L. Steve,
      There are no French schools here, just SeparatistFactories!!

      Delete
    2. I've been to french school for all of my elementary and half my high school years, and my wife spent her entire education in french, and sadly, there is a strong nationalist leaning, which i do not believe is beneficial to our kids at all.

      That said, your comment does nothing to advance a conversation. It only helps to push all sides to the extremes. If you've ever gone to the journal to MTL site and look at the comments below the articles, you'll note the vast majority are one-line insults or bashing. Their comments section has become a home to nationalist hate.

      We should avoid that here and avoid anything that just insults one group or another.

      But, that is just my opinion.

      Delete
    3. Hi: GensDenis = Just shows the frustration that we feel after all these years of being pushed aside as if we do not matter. A lot of us are frustrated and fed up.

      Delete
    4. L. Steve,

      If you went to French school in QC there was only one flag flying because the flag of Canada is BANNED! I think you miss the most important thing about that fact, which is that we've forgotten the statement:
      "We don't need you, we have your children!"

      By what you say, here on this site you and your wife have obviously escaped the hate. I, not knowing you, have to guess that there are a few possible ways that you did this.
      1) You went to French school in another province.
      2) If your schooling was in QC, your family was not separatist.
      3) If your schooling was in QC, you were lucky enough to know other people who have other opinions that your ability to speak another language did not block you from hearing.

      Now I know that my being a proponent for exposing the SeparatistFactory system rubs some people the wrong way, but that may be because they can't fathom the idea that our government is systematically sabotaging our country's future by stealing our children's right to willingly be Canadians.

      So if your version of bill 101 would be that new arrivals be obliged to send their kids to French schools for two generations; do you mean French schools, or do you mean SeparatistFactory schools?

      As for one liners, I believe that although i'm no Apparatchik, I make honest efforts in my contributions.

      Delete
    5. @Gens Denis

      J'ai peine à comprendre que la communauté anglôphone puisse quaalifier de «bullshit» les aspirations d'un peuple à devenir souverain. Je ne comprends pas non les raisons d'avoir peur de l'élection du PQ de la population anglophone.

      Ils ont peur de quoi au juste. Que madame Marois vienne leur rappeler que le français est la langue officielle au Québec! Que les nouveaux arrivants doivent apprendre à s'exprimer en français! Qu'il est grand temps pour les unilingues anglophones du Québec, établis depuis des générations, d'apprendre la langue de la majorité.

      Est-ce tout cela qui leur fait peur et qui les horripile?

      La question est posée.

      Delete
  38. Crusading Editor, I don't share your sense of forboding. First, this election is not over yet and the polls, for whatever they are worth, indicate that there are still a lot of undecided voters. As someone in La Presse pointed out today, undecided voters tend to NOT be sovereignists. All of this identity nonsense will die a natural death unless the PQ gets a majority. So I would wait before pushing the panic button. Second, in a representative democracy we sometimes have to deal with wacky ideas that bubble up. And the genius of the PQ has always been its ability to cover up its intolerant right wing ethnic nationalist elements with a veneer of "progressive" left wing policies. But most Quebecers, including Francois Legault and even parts of the francophone press, are on to them. After all, it's been 40 + years of the same old re hashed identity politics. The best place to deal with this stuff is out in the open. So let the games begin ! I would not mind if the PQ gets a minority. Then we'll see what francophones really have to say about Pauline's identity obsessions versus the elephants in the room - Quebec's faltering economy, unemployment, high taxes etc etc. I confidently predict that Pauline will die a Canadian citizen. You read it here, first.

    As Aislin put it in his famous 1976 cartoon following the election of the PQ - "Ok everbody - take a valium." Still good advice all these years later.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @Sandy

      Les nationalistes canadiens peuvent bien traiter le projet de souveraineté du Québec de «bullshit», ils devront alors accepter que le Canada soit qualifié de «marde» à chaque fois que le sujet revient sur le tapis.

      Les anglophones du Québec sont la minorité la mieux traitée au monde. C'est au Québec que l'anglais gagne le plus de locuteurs par rapport à leur poid démographique dans toute l'Amérique du Nord. Il y a donc un grave problème d'intégration au Québec parce que les institutions anglophones sont sur-financées.

      On finance notre propre désintégration sociale.

      Des institutions anglaises vivant sous respirateur et devant être fournie en assimilant à l'anglais francos et immigrants aux frais de la collectivité québécoise, c'est une aberration totale.

      Les suprémacistes anglo-saxons peuvent bien s'inquiéter, leurs privilèges dorés sont remis en question. Ces privilèges doivent cesser, parce qu'ils sont concédés au détriment du français, dont la situation à Montréal est catastrophique.

      Même le DGE respecte pas la loi 101 et bilinguise tous les documents relatifs à l'élection.

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  39. I want to comment on the "Sacrifice" point that the Editor brought up.

    To take it further than language and culture, I think the whole French-Quebecers independence (in all senses rather than just political) movements lack the willing to sacrifice. In many posts I gave many examples and comparisons with freedom fighters of the world and I pointed out tn hat Quebec "freedom fighters" - if there is one - really have no will to struggle if it means their comfort is reduced.

    Look at Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, Xanana Gusmao. Can you imagine Jacques Parizeau or Gilles Duceppe spend their lives in jail if it means it advances the struggle (what struggle) towards Quebec independence? Another example. As Sinn Feinn struggles for the separation of Northern Ireland from the UK, while they win 5 seats at the U.K. House of Commons they do not take up those seats. Compare that with the Bloc. Not only do they happily sit at the Canadian House of Commons doing nothing substantial, they also happily pocket the money and use all the facilities that the government of Canada is providing. If they had any sense of integrity and self-respect, would they not give up their money to the independence cause?

    Moving on. Do you notice that all the separatist groups do is making demands? They want allo, ethnic, governments, other Canadians, corporations to do things for their favor. But that is all they do. Well, the most they will do is making demonstration to get their points taken. But is there anything beyond that? What about civil disobedience? Stop consuming anything out of Quebec, for example. Stop working at the offending companies, stop frequenting Bill-101-non-compliant stores, stop cooperating with the federal government. Those what were done by "real" and "serious" grass root movements.

    While I do not like their cause, I respected the students to make a stand. My respect evaporated the second they complained that they were treated harshly. I then consider the movement as nothing more than a joke when they said that what the Police did was illegal - after they did illegal things themselves. Can we imagine Nelson Mandela whining that the food at Robben Island was not to his liking?

    And so, I think the Quebec independence movement will not succeed. It is not really a movement for a self-determination. It is just an opportunistic effort to gain favors and fortune for one's or one group's benefits. Nothing more. If it was for self-determination than it would be ready for worse fate than now, which is clearly not the case.

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  40. FROM ED BROWN
    Cutie, Street signs changed automatically with the name changes after 1976. Streets were mostly named
    after people or places but Champlain bridge became pont Champlain. In English we gave the name only but in French they often use the words 'rue de' which give the whole thing a french picture. We use to use just Wellington so they now call it Rue Wellington which gives it a french flavour. Apart
    from Dorchester I don't see a lot of actual name changes. Champlain bridge is now Pont Champlain.
    Gens Denis, you remind me of the things my best buddy told me when we were kids. Even in high school they were told "don't play with the English children. The brother (teacher) will get a baseball going here in the school yard. Stay with your own." Remember Lionel Grouch was a powerful man in the school system so what could we expect? He also told me they preached this right from the pulpit. More later. I'm getting a new bed today so I dumped mine last night being gargbage day. Last night I took the front board off the piano and stretched it between two chairs. With a camp mattress. Today I'm moving slow....ly mentally as well. Ed

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    1. The fact that parts of René Levesque it is still named D'Orchester is a crying shame. I hope it doesn't stay that way for too long. When street names are changed the entire street should be changed. A few hysterics in Westmoutn should not have their way.

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  41. This lecture on sacrifice is coming from an anglophone whose community, due to a also declining birthrate, is aging perhaps faster than ours. This is deliciously ironic.

    Would I be presomptuous enough to lecture you on sacrifice, I would suggest that you would simply have to have more children and, voilà, you would not need immigrants to attend english schools.

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    1. The English don't have to do that, they can just have a few million come in from Canada and voilà!

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    2. Cutie:

      Si tu es tellement tanné alors prends tes cliques et tes claques et déménage. C'est beau l'Ontario !

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  42. "35 years of hate".

    That's precisely what it is.

    People get down on me for referring to Bill 101 as a hate law/race law. I'm glad to see the editor is using a similar description.

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  43. Interesting that you suggest procreation as a way for the Quebecois to solve their "problem". Yesterday I submitted the following letter to The Gazette. It won't be published though as several months ago when The Gazette published a highly inaccurate editorial I had the temerity to advise them how far off they were. When they failed to respond to three emails I wrote to the Conseil. The Gazette then made the correction:

    Re: IS THIS YOUR QUEBEC? Gazette Aug. 29; Since Pauline Marois would like to turn the clock back 70 yrs in QC and on top of that subject potential non-francophone leaders (politicians) to language tests before they may run for political office, why not go the full route and deport everyone from Quebec who does not speak French fluently?
    Unfortunately, the reality of Quebec is that: Quebec and its population pose an unique potential for study in genetics because it is such a small gene pool of a large population all descended from certain founding families. This is one reason why there are so many genetic disorders that are found in the French Canadian population and it is interesting that they can be traced back to only a few settling families.

    If Pauline Marois would like to do the pur laine Quebecois a real favour, she should be encouraging them to make love with Anglos and Allos

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  49. Vous avez supprimé tous les messages en français que j'ai écrit. Maintenant je sais qui sont les nazis.

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  50. J'imagine que ce soir l'imbécile qui s'est présenté à la soirée de Mme Marois ne fais fais pas parti de votre gang de Nazis.

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