Friday, August 24, 2012

Marois' 'Quebec Citizenship'........ Poutine, Maple Syrup & Koolaid

Two Days- Two flip flops
It took just 24 hours for Pauline Marois' Quebec Citizenship plan to blow up in her face as the Parti Quebecois was forced to reverse positions on her pronouncement that all those who did not speak French would be barred from holding any public office.  Link

First she was quite specific;
"Marois said that if elected, she would reintroduce a controversial PQ bill requiring all new citizens of Quebec to learn French. But the new bill would go even further than the initial version of Bill 195, tabled in 2007.

To be eligible to run in provincial or municipal elections, a non-francophone would have to speak French well enough “to be able to explain his ideas, explain his point of view,” Marois said.

The proposed law would apply to people born and raised in Quebec, including members of First Nations, as well as immigrants." Read More
The PQ brain trust weighed the implications and promptly freaked out.
And so she and the party did a fancy two-step and like a whirling dancer in a Quebec quadrille, changed directions without skipping a beat.
"Today, the PQ clarified their position: All those who would have the proposed Quebec citizenship would be allowed to run for election. All current Quebec citizens would automatically get that citizenship, but new immigrants would be subjected to a French test before being granted those rights." Read More
 Don't for a minute believe that the change of heart was out of deference to Anglophones and their historical right to speak English, had it only been that, Marois would have been happy to tweak the nose of our community and soldier on.

The reversal was in fact a result of the utter panic in the PQ brain trust that Marois had inadvertantly declared war on Quebec's natives, a fight that would be politically disastrous and impossible to win.

Many Quebec bands speak only their native tongue along with English and they did not appreciate in the least Marois' insult that the language of Quebec is French only.

Stirring up Native resentment, could only be described as a fool's gambit, something that even the dumbest, poorest federalist or separatist voter understands.
The spectre of confrontation à la Oka is frightening enough and Quebecers, like Canadians across the country understand, it's never good policy to piss off the natives.

And so it's a bit disconcerting to see the next potential premier of Quebec stumble so badly, making it up as she goes along, especially as she seems to be trifling with the most basic tenets of democracy as if she were discussing a new pork barrel recreation centre in Paris du bois, in an effort to shill for votes.

Lost in all this, is the curious fact that in Quebec, the ridiculous is quickly accepted as normal, where the details and modalities of Quebec citizenship can be discussed without anyone in the mainstream media pointing out the absurdity of a province creating such a device, akin to debating the colour of the lampshade one decides to sport over one's head, without considering the why and what for.

It is as if Quebec has become a sad version of Alice in Wonderland, where up is down, and political conversations are nonsensical, illogical and maddeningly frightful. 
And so to paraphrase the Mad Hatter "The entire world is falling to ruins and poor Pauline is off to her tea."

While Marois' so-called Quebec Citizenship project, like the Herouxville Code of conduct, applies to all, its real target are the twenty percent of Quebecers who are not the 'pure laine.'

Madame Marois' citizenship project is just another extension of her well-established reputation of practising the politics of exclusion, well-established among Quebec hardliners, who view immigrants as the enemy within and the Anglophone community as a relentless evil force of assimilation.

The citizenship project is a not so subtle warning to those outside the French bubble, that if they expect to be included in Quebec society, they better embrace the values and culture of poutine and maple syrup while chugging down the Koolaid of Quebec nationalism.

What does that mean?

It means that speaking French is not enough.
It means embracing francophone culture, mores, values and customs and of course Quebec cuisine, poutine and maple syrup.
This is the minimum requirement for retaining the privilege of living in Quebec.

It means that the 20% must embrace French television, cinema, music, and sport.
It means that those coming to Quebec may not bring with them or maintain any semblance of their heritage, religion, orthodoxy, customs, language or dress.
No playing loud Arabic music in the car, wandering the streets in a sari, or promenading in flowing Hasidic regalia.
No weird native cuisine, egg rolls and pizza is all the exotic fare permitted.
It is a society that requires the 20% to understand that marriage is an outdated concept, that belief in God a no-no and a place where hard work and entrepreneurship a sign of social dysfunction.
It is a society where the children of the 20% should be careful not to study too hard, lest they show up the natives.
And more sickening, it is a society that tells the 20% to embrace the fact that Canada is evil and that Quebec is the cat's meow.

The citizenship project is a message that the very assimilation that French militants decry as it pertains to themselves, is what they demand of the 20%.
While claiming that saving French in North America contributes to the language and cultural diversity of the world, such diversity in Quebec is an anathema.

Now to my francophone and particularly sovereigntist readers, I know the characterization above is not the view of the majority of francophones, even among sovereigntists, who are a remarkably diverse group.
But it does reflect the hardline view, the one shared and promoted by Pauline Marois and the basis of the PQ policy on what a Quebec citizen must be.

And so Marois prattles on, lurching from one idiotic notion to another and no sooner had she done her flip over citizenship she faced another similar crisis over her party's platform of consultative referendums whereby citizens who gather signatures equal to 15% of the population, can trigger a binding referendum on any issue.
It's a moronic idea to begin with, but one Marois and the PQ defended until now, because nobody  chose to challenge it.

But in her one on one debate with the leader of the CAQ, Francois Legault, he pounded her mercilessly as to the stupidity of the policy, asking Marois if she is bound to hold a referendum on sovereignty if militants gather these signatures, which as Legault offered, they were sure to do.

It was savagely delicious to watch Marois squirm and do her level best to sidestep the question, only to crash and burn over the issue, in the end.

The day after the debate, the PQ admitted that this cornerstone policy was to be abandoned, conscious that had they not done so, the opposition would run riot with the issue.
"In another surprise shift in the Parti Quebecois platform, Pauline Marois said last night that a citizen-initiated referendum could be a mere recommendation from the public, that would not force the government to act."  Read the rest of the story
There she is readers, our potential new Premier, floundering and flopping around like a newly hooked fish in the bottom of the row boat.

It is a frightful idea that she is in fact, the most experienced member of the PQ brigade and it's no wonder that even on the separatist website, the prevailing sentiment is;

"Pauline, you're killing us!"


  1. Actually I find interesting the fact that she had no response with regards to the PQ economic plan going forward. Other than to say, our plan for the economy is forthcoming in the next few days. Must be a miraculous plan!!! To be kept so secret and guarded. Maybe they are working on it tonight up at the mansion in Isle de Bizard.

    The ROC take on Quebec.

    Game is coming to an end as the ROC becomes more educated about the facts and costs associated with Quebec.

    12% of people polled in Canada believe Quebec should be ratined by the feds at any cost.

    88 % of people in the ROC believe Quebec should be treated as an equal to any other province.

    Good luck with Marois' stiff treatment of Ottawa and the ROC.

    Hey Editor, you want to post this one..You have seen fit to censor the last three posts.

  2. Sorry, that should be retained and not ratined. Alberta was supposed to be "rat" free. Not the case in Medicne Hat, AB. :)

  3. As former separatist Mayor Stéphane Gendron would say:

    "..and you want to make a country with this?"


  4. FROM ED BROWN - I posted this on the old post. Somehow it disappeared
    I don't know why people keep using the term 'corrupt liberal government' They are no more corrupt than any other party. Even Mr. Clean has shown that he's no Saint. When Charest asked Ducheneau to head the investigation he praised Charest and told us how helpful the Premier was to get things going. Now he's with another party he reverses everything he previously said. So was he lying then or now and how can we believe anything he says. Mr. Charest did not have the courage to go against the mafia until he got Ducheneau's support. Drapeau, if you remember hired a cop from France and one from England with reputations for crime busting. They both ran home with their tail between their legs after
    a few visits from the bad guys. They found out even the cops here are on the take and realized they had no support or protection. So did Mr. Charest. What did you want him to do. Risk his life and his family's. The corruption in Quebec exploded with the PQ
    giving the unions all the power to get their votes. Marois was a bigger part of that than Charest.
    If you tell a lie often enough people will say "it must be true because I've heard it before."
    So called pundits like Don McPherson and Ian McDonald love to spread this bullshit and the Tory press is only too happy to do it. There have not even any charges been alleged toward Mr. Charest. Ed

    1. Ed Brown: For whatever reason, blogs such as this one initially only display up to 200 comments. Once there are more than 200 comments, a red link that says "Load more..." appears towards the bottom of the page. Depending on how many more comments above 200 there are, you might have to click "Load more..." more than once. If you do this on the previous posting, you will find that your comment is indeed still there at 4:31PM. Right now, you have 2 replies over there, including one from the Editor asking you to email him personally. Note that he misspelled his email address; it is actually "" (the E was missing), as can also be seen in the top right-hand corner of any page here.

    2. Yeah Ed, I read your comment on the other thread (in the manner Cat describes).

      I agree with you btw... Charest doesn't seem inherently more corrupt than Marois, or the PLQ any more so than the PQ.

  5. No wonder why the PQ has virtually ZERO support among visible minorities.What kind of Bizzaro world are they living in? Do they think all immigrants are morons? Why on earth would anyone choose to settle down here with these "Little Rascal-esque" rules foisted upon them? And these are the idiotic and offensive ideas that the clowns in the PQ present us with??

    1. DrunkGuy, not to worry. The PQ will still get the vote from those living near the toxins found in Lac St-Jean and Saguenay River. They're more toxic than those decades-old tar pits in Sydney, NS! That must be the case if people from that area vote PQ after all those pearls uttered out of Pauline Marois' mouth.

    2. "Do they think all immigrants are morons?"

      Il doit y en avoir quelques-uns,c'est certain.Êtes-vous un immigrant?

  6. Editor, to cut and paste your words above: "the characterization [by Marois] is not the view of the majority of francophones, even among sovereigntists..."

    Whether you truly believe this or are simply being politically correct, I beg to differ. Your editorials have at times mentioned how a decreasing number of Liberal MNAs can and do speak English.

    There is no doubt the PLQ has become increasingly nationalist over time, and it is the leader of the PLQ and Quebec premier of the last nine years who hired more language police, appointed the head of the OQLF who has encouraged speaking to tourists coming to Quebec in French whether they understand it or not.

    It is also the leader of the PLQ and Quebec premier of the last nine years who thumbed his nose at the Supreme Court by replacing Bill 104.1 with Bill 104.2

    It is also the leader of the PLQ and Quebec premier of the last nine years who is bumping on a log down the river rapids whistling Aloutte (as opposed to whistling Dixie) while one government department after another adopts a policy of not speaking English to anyone anymore.

    All this de-anglicization becoming policy is NOT because a minute number of fanatics, but a society that is growing ever increasingly nationalistic, at least among its majority.

    As Reed Scowen wrote in his book Time to Say Goodbye, the deep-rooted «Anglophone de souche» have, at least according to societal reflections, all inevitably died off (even though many of that now "over-50" crowd are still around) so the courtesy to serve Anglophones in English is deemed over.

    Scowen pointed out that the children of «Anglophones de souche», born in the post-Bill 101 era are expected to live in French by all political parties. That would imply anyone over 40 let alone 50 should still be part of the «Anglophones de souche», but I figured a long time ago they'd abandon English at the first possible moment if not before, and lo and behold, they did.

    Sorry Editor, but no. For something like this to become policy, it's because the majority of the society WANTS it this way. Nobody, BUT NOBODY in Francophone society is coming forward to say this policy is wrong thus, ergo and therefore, this is the tyranny of the majority.

    Your politically correct statement is just that: POLITICALLY CORRECT...and absolutely positively nothing more.

    1. I absolutely agree 101% with Mr. Sauga's comments above.

      People in general have no interest in denouncing government policies and regulations that give them higher priority or more privileges than others. How many people wouldn't accept a promotion with a huge pay raise even if they knew that another employee would be demoted with a pay cut?

      Since 1977 and Bill 101, Quebec francophones have seen their interests, both linguistic and financial, sanctioned in various laws, at the expense of the minorities. They have no reason to denounce a system that puts them at the front of the line by forcing les autres to the rear.

    2. Two Cents: In spite of it all, the minorities are still responsible for 40% of Quebec government revenues despite making up ony 20% of the population. With most of that population living in the Montreal area, and the aberration of affluent Quebec government workers in the Quebec City area, the rest of Quebec, esp. the Saguenay-Lac St-Jean regions are made up of lower class country bumpkins who out of sheer ignorance hate the minorities (like Hérouxville).

      The Townships still have enough remnants of the United Empire Loyalists to keep them afloat and there are pockets of entrepreneurs in the Beauce Region, making them probably the most conservative of the lot. The other regions? Faggedaboudit!

      What would become of those bumpkins without us?

      APPLE IIGS: I'm waiting for you to contribute to this conversation! I'm sure you have lots to say on this!

  7. Though Mr. Sauga does have a point, he is wrong that all Francophones support this reprehensible proposition. I've looked over the boards on a few French sites and quite a few people were offended by the notion and found it repressive.

    Personally, when Marois announced this measure it was music to my ears. The second I read it applied to natives, I could smell roasted turkey in the air.

    BTW, the psycho who shot up Norway and killed 77 people was convicted today. His final words after being sentenced -- "I did it because those people betrayed us and embraced multiculturalism."

    You have been served.

    1. Harvey: You misinterpreted me, but there is no shortage of that on this blog. I didn't say ALL Francophones support the proposition, but they certainly don't disagree with it. I'd say that represents the vast majority, wouldn't you? Considering the PLQ is increasingly nationalist, considering there is an ongoing decrease in the number of PLQ MNAs who can speak English, considering under a PLQ government their departments are growing increasingly intolerant of and towards English, considering they have hired more language police and considering they haven't loosened their grip one iota on who could attend English schools, I'd say I'm not far off.

      Oh, and lest we forget all the assorted racists, bigots and big mouths that addressed the Bouchard-Taylor Commission $5 million waste of the taxpayers' money a few years ago. One presentation of racist hatred and innuendoes after another after another after another...

    2. I have to side with Sauga on this one. The amount of francophones who are ok or not offended by a lot of these propositions truly is frightening. And imagine as the PQunt starts taking away more and more of their own people‘s rights while flattering them by telling them everyday they are the master race. well you don‘t have to think too hard to figure out who the scapegoat will be when the whole thing collapses.

    3. Quite right, J.J. The way you eloquently describe the situation puts me in mind of another situation that took place almost 80 years ago in Germany. The indifference of the majority and the hateful zealousness of those who very willingly and enthusiastically wreaked havoc (Krystallnacht, the Warsaw Ghetto, etc.) on targeted minorities resulted in the slaughter and extermination over 37½ million people.

      I don't imagine it would reach such a scale here, but the hate in some and the indifference in the rest can lead to what happened in the former Yugoslavia, Cambodia, Rwanda and countless other places. If it goes unchecked, you just never know.

      Harvey, by contradicting me you're contradicting yourself, based on what you wrote at the end of your piece about the Norwegian nutbar. What's to say some kook or a small group of like-minded kooks won't do the same in Quebec uttering those same words as the nutbar?

  8. The Parti Quebecois brain trust - does that refer to everyone in the PQ except Pauline Marois? Or is it an oxymoron? ;-) ;-)

    (Maybe I should start a career as a standup comedian).

  9. I don't think Jean Charest really has a choice but to show that he is pro bill 101 to get enough of the francophone vote to get reelected. On the other hand he made no effort to get more seats in the island of Montreal. In the end the minorities best hope right now is that Charest gets a clear majority and that the PQ, CAQ and QS wipe each other out so badly that the PQ gets less then 10 seats.

    What the minorities need is time to keep their population growing and to spread, because in the end as long as the areas the minorities in Quebec are a majority there will always be the sword of Pur Laine chauvanism hanging over their heads. A movement after this election for a vocal pro partition party would be the only counter against more tyranny.

    Even this mutual sovereignty is better then the current system.

    1. @Jarry - I totally agree and I wish we had a pro-partition party ever since the 1995 referendum. For sure in the Outaouais, this would be a popular party! People don't like the idea very much but I can see no other solution to this on-going instability in Quebec. The whining, blackmailing and threats have got to end somehow and this seems like the only way out. The separatists can't ignore the will of the people and still call themselves democratic so they would have to accept the partition of the province.

    2. I think the partition of Quebec is seen as a real threat by the separatists. I remember Paulette explaining how the 15% of the population requesting a referendum would work: she kept emphasizing that those signatures should come from all over quebec, not some parts of it.

      Also, I believe the worry about number of the francophones dropping in Montreal could stem from the fact that most non-francophones would be in favour of breaking apart from Quebec...

    3. TS.

      Close to 90% of bilingual Francophones and about 20% unilingual Francophones would support an Eleventh Canadian Province...
      The majority of Quebec 3.0 donations come from Francophones even though 3.0 is only asking for Mutual Sovereignty.

    4. Gens, tell us more about the movement you're starting to separate Montréal.

      I know of a slight movement to separate Toronto into a new province but it's not really got any traction. So the idea has some interest for me; stop teasing us and give us some goods.

      Also, I guess your promise of a talk on your experience in school was actually a promise for a private talk with Yannick. However if you're open to sharing, I'd certainly be interested in your experience. (Aussi, bien sûr, je m'intéresserai en l'avis de quelqu'un qui aimait et apprécie son experience a la même école)

    5. Jacques Beau Vert,

      I am not starting this. It has been in place since 1996. I know that this sounds cryptic, but that is because the numerous fronts do not yet have all the security in place. The research, legal and demographic however, is very realistic and positive.

      As for my SeparatistFactory "schooling", I invite you to go back to the many posts I made where I publicly cry out at the SocialEngineering our children are subjected to. I may at one point, if he still wants, have that convo with Yannick, but for the moment, I'm trying to see if he is an apologist for the separatists or if he has been wounded by the expectation that FrancoCanadians should not be standing by, while our English brothers and co-founders of OurCountry are being ethnically cleansed..

    6. I know that this sounds cryptic, but that is because the numerous fronts do not yet have all the security in place.

      It doesn't sound "cryptic" as much as it sounds like there's no meat with these potatoes.

      I invite you to go back to the many posts I made where I publicly cry out at the SocialEngineering our children are subjected to

      Back to the many posts you have made wherein you endlessly complain that the school system is in fact comprised of "separatist factories" with no examples to fill in the picture?

      I'm honestly curious and am not trying to "call you out", but come on. Put up or shut up. Not all of us have attended schools in QC, and you gripe about them constantly. What's your story? It's obviously interesting and important to you -- what is it? I'm genuinely curious about something you care deeply about.

      The Editor said recently how many readers approach this site from outside of Quebec; obviously we haven't been to schools there. Don't be such a dog in the manger with your personal experiences.

      while our English brothers and co-founders of OurCountry are being ethnically cleansed..

      GD: This is an obvious exaggeration in the league of "the English are ethnically cleansing us the French".

    7. I do remember a friend of mine who is also a fellow allo that was attending a French high school (children of bill 101). This high school use to be known as Northmount High School until 1988 and then became a French High School called Van Horne and changed to Lavoie ( I guess Van Horne was to English sounding). The geography teacher who was a Pur Laine was telling the students that Quebec would be better off being independent as they had so many natural resouces and the hydro electric power. The teacher also said that Quebec was paying alot more in taxes then they were getting back in. This was in the early 1990s. Internet wasn't around yet for independent verification. Most allos despite the indoctrination attempts didn't fall for the propaganda and now it will be impossible with all the independent sources available that counter all the delusional propaganda in the Quebec French School system.

    8. If one wants to be somewhat obtuse, it is possible to claim that Quebec pays more in taxes than it receives : it sends about 40-50 billions to ottawa and gets about 15-20 billions back in health, social and equalization transfers.

      The crux is : could Quebec do better with its money than Canada is if they could control all of it? Seeing how they have the highest taxes and crummiest services in Canada, it's doubtful. But one could still argue it.

    9. Seriously, does anyone not remember that weasel Patrice (too busy campaigning to the Racist Party to post these days) gloating that his kids didn‘t learn about the other provinces in french school?
      Anyone who doesn‘t believe there is brainwashing in the spearacists plans needs to google “Richard Le Hir“

    10. Jacques Beau Vert,

      That you think there's no meat with these potatoes is fine with me.

      As for the SocialEngineering our children are subjected to is concerned, you need not look farther than who voted yes and who voted no in the ‘95 referendum. More than 99% of “Yes" voters spoke only French while almost all “No” voters spoke more than one language.

      As for the [ethnically cleansing] being an obvious exaggeration as you call it, is it not apparent even in the latest discourse of the PQ, SQ, and CAQ vs. the Nationalistic yet inclusionary PLQ during this campaign?

      I could go on, but I can see here that I’m probably talking to a separatist sympathizer who’s worried about how viable the EleventhProvince Movement is.

      In due time…

    11. Yep, you're talking to a separatist sympathizer lol... BOO!

      Ethnic cleansing is a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group. I'm not convinced Montréal anglos really qualify for the label...

      I could go on
      And I'm sure you will, GD. I'm sure you will.

      Shakespeare said that love makes fools of us all... he might have added "politics" there, as well!

    12. Thanks for the comments Jarry...

      I've really only ever had one acquaintance show me (only via email) a test question his child had to write a response to, a loaded question which was obviously written by separatist propagandists. Appreciate your info.

      I hear often that the school propaganda is a big, harmful deal... yet virtually no one can point to a separatist curriculum being inculcated into youth. If it's such a big deal, perhaps some of the upset citizens might want to dispel certain specific curriculum myths.

    13. In the spirit of fairness me and Patrice had a bit of a bout about the subject; he seems to believe that his children will learn the name of the other provinces, but later. I believe his children are in elementary school. He did make a big deal that the education is "centred on the Quebec circumstances" or something along those lines.

      It is difficult for me to remember when I learned the name of all the provinces; for sure we did in 7th grade, as we each had to do an oral presentation about a province. Mine was about Saskatchewan. I must have known about some of them beforehand, but it's all muddled in my memories.

      What about you guys?

    14. Yeah I recall that...

      I think it's weird that a parent would gloat that their children were growing up ignorant about the world immediately around them (he, not me, compared their education to others of the same age in other provinces).

      Still, teaching Quebec-focused geography and ignoring the rest of North America doesn't really count as "separatist propaganda". Maybe it's a little behind other programs (again, going by his comparison to his kids' cohort outside of the province), but "separatist factories", not so much. I'm

      I'd say Grade 4-ish, with Mrs. Dickson, with names of capitals and lakes, but I don't recall exactly.

    15. @ Jacques Beau Vert,

      "Ethnic cleansing is a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group. I'm not convinced Montréal anglos really qualify for the label..."

      The ethnic cleansing of Anglos from Quebec is happening. Hundreds of thousands have left the province during the past 40 years. The cleansing is not occurring due to violence, but by the implementation of racist language laws that makes them second class citizens within their own country. The author of Bill 101, Camille Laurin, said that he wanted to reduce the number of Anglos himself.

    16. The practice of "closed education" is not exclusive to Québec. I've traveled extensively through the U.S. and many of the friends I had there told me that while in school, the maps of North America, would only feature the U.S. in detail.

      According to them, the Canadian portion of the map was just a empty white the missing piece of a jigsaw puzzle.

      Though I usually find myself in agreement with Jacques, this is a point where we differ. This practice is a textbook measure for patriotic indoctrination. What intrigues me however, is how this will fare in an age where all children are born into the Internet age and can bring any and all facts into question.

      As for my own intro to Canada (and the outside world), my father collected National Geographic magazine like crazy and also enjoyed Harrowsmith, and we'd sometimes read the pieces when I was still quite young.

      Have to admit that learning about my own country from an American magazine was kind of strange but very exciting all the same.

      BTW, Jacques...I'm in T.O. right now too - are you finding the Ontario perspective on the QC elections as interesting as I do?

    17. Part 1

      Jacques Beau Vert, aka (BOO!)

      Do you think the fact that all QC “French schools” banning the Flag of OurCountry, is not a major and deliberate part of the disgusting SocialEngineering? I’d like to write more, but I’ll repost a small exchange I had with an American visitor to Editor’s Blog.

      And btw, I challenge you to step foot in any SeparatistFactory "Schools" waving a Canadian Flag of any size!!

      Anonymous (From USA) Apr 3, 2012 05:24 AM

      I agree with this post. Much of my family is still in Quebec. Those of us on the US side of the border still refer to ourselves as having French Canadian roots, since the whole quebecois name is not yet embraced and we see no reason to embrace it. When I was growing up as the first generation in my family that learned to speak english as well as french, we actually looked down on the French Canadian side because it seemed devoid of content. This wasn't just us being rebellious kids dazzled by America, this was taught to us by our own relatives. If you wanted to learn real french culture, you would go to France. But there wasn't a need to do so, since in America we have access to a global english speaking civilization.

      It's only recently that I have looked into the French Canadian side of things and have come to terms with my roots without the childhood sense I once had of looking down at it. There is a lot of wonderful things culturally in Quebec, but I am interested in mainly the folk music, much of which is now branded "Celtic" because it is a mix of french, scottish, irish and english folk traditions. My family taught me that we once had a Canadian rebellion in 1837 and it was never spoken of as a french versus english fight, it was Canadians together against the British. And yes ALL Canadians.

      How did it get to be the way it is now with an over-reactive bunch of nutters running around whining about seeing an english word being used? This is an embarrassment to me. As a bilingual who can wear either a francophone or anglophone hat, it outrages me. (Wonders if I will be jumped by a militant on here now for choosing to write my post in english.)


    18. Part 2

      GensDenis Apr 3, 2012 07:34 AM

      Dear Friend,

      Your interpretation is right on. As a Francophone originally, I must say that I’ve seen many changes in the lexicon. What was once French Canadian has been hijacked by one of the most xenophobic group of operators of North America to become Québécois. Québécois, which use to identify someone from Québec City now means Québécois Nation (no offence intended to the Great Canadian City of Québec). Québécois, a Nation that rejects being French and that rejects being Canadian. A new Race, a Québécois Race. A Race that the great majority will never identify with.

      There is no reason for you to feel embarrassed of your French heritage because of the All English Hate Machine the Québécois Taliban has become. They are a special interest minority that will fade as French Canadians call them out and expose them as the bigots they are.

      Your reference to the Canadian rebellion in 1837 is one event among many that my Separatists Factory Québécois Taliban Schools omitted to teach me about. There are many others, such as the fact that after more than 130,000 French and English soldiers fought and died as brothers in the trenches, Vimy Ridge was taken by Canadians, the inventers of the shock and awe battlefield technique. I can continue probably for hours since our Québécois “schools" systematically omitted and revised most of our history, but I’ll leave you with this:

      200 years ago and 25 years prior to the Canadian rebellion of 1837 came the War of 1812 where Brittan and Canadians successfully defended Canada from the USA. In this war Canadians and Brits mostly wore red uniforms and thus were easily picked off by American riflemen. To protect against that, in the tradition of the great French Armies of the past, Canadians pierced their uniforms with bayonets and placed MapleLeaf branches in the holes for camouflage.

      The world knows what the American Flag represents, but few Canadians, let alone the world, know how Our Flag came to be. The red Banners on each side represent the blood spilled by Canadians of All origins for freedom in each of the world wars, and that Glorious MapleLeaf, is not there for le sirop d'érable. It represents the blood of those who saved Canada in the War of 1812.
      Cool Flag eh?

      Now you’d think that such a cool thing as that would have been taught in school, right? No way!

      Concerned citizens on this blog conduct these daily battles because we want to show our English Brothers that we are not all part of the English Hating Taliban. As time goes on, the haters will give up trying to make haters of one of the most welcoming people on earth, The French Canadians of Québec!

      Salut à toi…


      So BOO, please attempt waving OurCountry's Flag in any of those "Schools" before you try to minimize the damage, that every day is instilled in our children!

      Merci mon frere...

    19. And btFknW

      How many Canadian Flags did you see during the entire student (backed by separatists) protests? Even the students who are not separatists knew better that to bring a Flag of OurCountry! Tells a lot about their integrity, don't it?

      Please someone tell me where in the world any kind of celebration, protest, parade, march or manif happens with the participants deliberately omitting the presentation of the flag of their country!

    20. I'm in T.O. right now too - are you finding the Ontario perspective on the QC elections as interesting as I do?

      My brother from TO visited me yesterday. He had heard of "Marois" but didn't realize that she was a woman until a few days ago when someone said to him: "that Marois is a real bitch!".

    21. Do you happen to have a link or some other reference for the meaning of our flag? I can't find anything online. Just general info like red for courage & valor, white for peace. That and red is a royal symbol of England and white, one of France. I'm curious if this stuff about world war I & II being represented on the flag is true!

    22. Sorry, forgot to include I was asking GensDenis.

    23. Do you think the fact that all QC “French schools” banning the Flag of OurCountry, is not a major and deliberate part of the disgusting SocialEngineering?

      Look, one more time here:
      I didn't go to school in Quebec.

      After multiple requests, you've finally divulged a single tidbit: apparently, the Canadian flag isn't apparently allowed in public schools in Quebec.

      How should I have known that? I didn't go to school in Quebec.

      I didn't say that "I don't believe you", I said that, "I'm curious to know more, please share with me".

      I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm asking you for your perspective, which you won't share because you apparently think the world revolves around your province (wake up) and can't imagine a person not knowing the inner workings as intricately as you do. Many of us outside of your province have lives that don't involve your province.

    24. The cleansing is not occurring due to violence, but by the implementation of racist language laws that makes them second class citizens within their own country. The author of Bill 101, Camille Laurin, said that he wanted to reduce the number of Anglos himself.

      I get that. Yeah.

      It's not "ethnic cleansing".

      I thought separatists jumped thé shark with "nous sommes les nègres blancs de l'Amérique du Nord" etc but apparently many anglos feel just as entitled to victimhood.

    25. Though I usually find myself in agreement with Jacques, this is a point where we differ. This practice is a textbook measure for patriotic indoctrination.

      Ah but the people who agree the most have the best, most interesting disagreements! ;-)

      I'm not actually differing so much as just asking stuff. Again, I've never been to a school in Quebec, so I'd really like an insider's view and perspective to better/further understand.

      (And for the most part, I can easily believe that a patriotic (or more specifically, nationalist) indoctrination happens in Quebec schools… it's the easiest way to explain the totally screwed-up attitude so many Quebeckers have about themselves and about people who aren't from Quebec.)

      how this will fare in an age where all children are born into the Internet age and can bring any and all facts into question.

      Yeah… this is an interesting question, about war, about sexuality, about east & west, about religion… even about about introverts/extroverts. Pretty much any perspective on hot-button topic can change when confronted by the internet. It is powerful.

      Totally fascinating to me… I know people whose lives have been totally transformed by the internet.

      Ontario perspective

      Aw I'm a lousy one to ask actually, Harv… I don't read many Canadian 'news' besides Hébert. This blog is my primary window into this election, to be honest (thanks, Editor). I like to read US and France and UK papers. Interested in China though don't speak/read any languages there.

      I have a friend and roommate who is a two time federal candidate and an encyclopedia on North American politics… we have talked about it. He finds it mainly irrelevant. (FWIW he's half French-Canadian, totally anglophone (no French); he finds Quebec politics a "cauldron" (his word) and far too emotional to pay attention to). (He means "irrelevant" a propos of the Western economy, the Chinese economy, Syria, etc)

      I have to say though, Harvey… I kinda agree with him. Bernard Landry's interview to LeDevoir took me aback with its childishness and pettiness. I can't imagine a former PM or President or Governor or Premier of anywhere that would go on the record in such an immature way. Politicians are often childish, and in Canada, especially so, because, like Student's Council, the stakes are so low. But Landry's too-too-personal attacks were embarrassing and totally discomfiting.

    26. The red Banners on each side represent the blood spilled by Canadians of All origins for freedom in each of the world wars, and that Glorious MapleLeaf, is not there for le sirop d'érable. It represents the blood of those who saved Canada in the War of 1812.
Cool Flag eh?

      This is not remotely close to what I have (on multiple occasions spanning several years) read or heard. It's possible I've been constantly misinformed, yes. But unlikely. The banners represent the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans and the maple leaf grows throughout; blue banners were stricken because red, white and blue is "so American" (a typically small-minded, America-obsessed, Canadian attitude that forgets that red, white, and blue is also the colors of France, Britain, Holland, and probably some other flags. Red and White are the monarchial colors of England and of France, our 'parents' (totally excluding the Aboriginals)).

      Got a link that suggests the red on the flag represents soldier's blood? (Why do I ask, of course you do…)

    27. I've never heard the story about the red in Canada's flag representing the soldier's blood either - though I hear in France they call the counter-offensive of 1918 that broke the back of the german army "Les cents jours du Canada".

    28. @ JBV,

      "It's not "ethnic cleansing"."

      Well a lot of people view it that way, especially those who have seen most of their friends and family leave Quebec.

      Even our resident separatist troll, S.R, keeps saying that there should be another mass "cleansing" of Anglos from Quebec.

    29. An interesting “vexillological” question!

      Some people seem to be under the impression that the red represents the blood shed in WWI and that the bands on either side represent the Pacific and Atlantic oceans. Others think that the red represents the flag of England (St George's Cross) and white represents the French royal emblem; or alternatively, that white represents peace and honesty, and red represents hardiness, bravery, strength and valour.

      All of these explanations appear to be incorrect and are not referred to on the official Canadian Heritage website about the flag.

      Essentially, the answer is that in history, red and white are found as the colours of France or of England. France long had a red cross on its banners while England used a white cross. Thus, red and white were approved as Canada's official colours in the proclamation of the royal arms of Canada in 1921 by King George V.

      In other words, red (and not blue) symbolizes France. Ironic, isn’t it?

    30. Even our resident separatist troll, S.R, keeps saying that there should be another mass "cleansing" of Anglos from Quebec.

      Pas "devrait",il va y en avoir un autre bientôt.Nous prévoyons un bouchon monstre sur la 401 :)

    31. Gens, tell us more about the movement you're starting to separate Montréal.

      JBG, good questioning regarding GensDenis. I too thought he made it sound as if he was talking about something or other that had been in the works for the past 6 months or a year or so and was about ready to be revealed. It turns out whatever he’s talking about has been in place since 1996 and is still not ready “because the numerous fronts do not yet have all the security in place”!!! (/facepalm) Obviously, whatever it is he is talking about is a total joke and merits no consideration whatsoever. I mean, come on, little diapered babies from 1996 are reaching the age of majority now and they’re still not ready! No cryptic meat or potatoes indeed… maybe a little tofu but that’s it.

      Ethnic cleansing is a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group.

      You know, remove “by violent means” and it’s not all that far from the truth.


    32. [I too thought he made it sound as if he was talking about something or other that had been in the works for the past 6 months or a year or so and was about ready to be revealed]


      You were right in thinking this, but it does not mean that it has not been in the making since 1996. We’ve taken an approach that takes away the partition part of those “fronts”, which approached is that we are doing this before the racists separate. Also the movement has Francophones as the majority.
      LA PROVINCE CANADIENNE DE MONTREAL is a working title. We use it because it is visualization for the separatists but of course, it is for the parts of Western QC who want it, and that may represent as much as 4.5 million people.
      It is legal and doable, but it does not mean that those involved and their families have all the necessary protection yet!

      You may think it’s a joke but remember, that was the reaction of Canada about the separatist movement, oh so long ago! I wish you’d put yourself in the place of some of the people who have had to live with death threats, vandalism, bodyguards and even fleeing to other provinces before laughing at the sacrifices being made by them on behalf of all of us!
      ..and please note that no “little diapered babies from 1996” are involved.

      (/facepalm) or not dear Cat, this is real…


    33. MM Friday, August 24, 2012 10:25:00 PM EDT,

      Here is one of the pages; there are more as I remember.

      I also read this entire close to 40-page document and found it to be the most complete and conscientious so far.

      Reading it made me think of how much good will it took to finally get a consensus for a flag that truly says proudly to the world and to the future:
      “I stand for Canada”.
      “I AM CANADIAN and MyCountry means WELCOME!”

      If you’d like more info, I’m sure you could get some proud Canadian to help by calling: 1-800-O CANADA

    34. From the Canadiana Vexillology & Heraldry WebLinks:

      After reviewing thousands of proposals, the committee settled on the three designs:

      The first design came from Diefenbaker's members of the committee. The second was again the original proposal, the "Pearson Pennant". The third was similar to the first, a 13-pointed red Canadian Maple Leaf on white with red stripes on both sides, but without the Union Jack and the banner of the Kingdom of France.

      Like the Pearson Pennant, the third flag had two bars on both sides of the main symbol to represent the Pacific and Atlantic. The entire flag was in red and white, the official colours granted to Canada in 1921 by King George V. The red also represented those Canadian soldiers who died fighting for freedom during World War I, II and the Korean War. The single leaf represented all Canadians.

      After a vote, the third proposal was elected with an overwhelming majority. A government graphic artist was asked to create a print for the final proposal. After some input from the committee leaders, the maple leaf was changed to an 11-pointed leaf. Part of the motivation to change the leaf design was based on superstition (13 being an unlucky number in Christian culture). The other was to simplify the leaf design further so that even a child could draw the flag.

      The final design was adopted on October 22, 1964. It was proclaimed as Canada's official flag by Queen Elizabeth II on February 15, 1965.

  10. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  11. I found this this morning on Ron Paul For President facebook page.

    I feel that a QC-version of this picture should exist, with a caption: The Original Defenders of Culture - Fighting Terrorism Since 1534.

    Dear Lord,
    I know I don't talk to you that much, but over the past few years you have taken away my favourite actor, Patrick Swayze, my favorite Expo, Gary Carter, my favourite actress, Farah Fawcett and my favourite musicians,Whitney Houston and Michael Jackson.

    I just wanted to let you know that my favourite politician is Pauline Marois.


    1. That's really, really funny.

      Whether it's Marois or Charest or Obama or Romney or Merkel or Hollande, this makes me laugh!


    ... just saying'.

  14. "If one wants to be somewhat obtuse, it is possible to claim that Quebec pays more in taxes than it receives : it sends about 40-50 billions to ottawa and gets about 15-20 billions back in health, social and equalization transfers:"

    Doubt you figures are correct.

    Check this out and get back to us.

    Quebec in fact gets all transfer back plus additional money on top of everything. 1.00 contributed to equalzition gets them back 2.36. Pretty good deal I would say.

    1. ABP, it's an outrageously great deal for Quebec. $253 billion over about 50 years? This has been spent on things like language, dirt cheap daycare for all, language, the lowest tuition fees in North America and language. I did write language, didn't I?

      I think Ezra's talk above should be mandatory in every history curriculum across Canada, in English and French schools. If this was the case, one of two things would happen: 1. We'd cut Quebec off at the pass; (2) throw Quebec out of confederation, never mind give them a chance to leave on their own. OK, OK, (2b) Quebec votes itself out!

      Thanks for bringing this to the table!

  15. The days of honouring yourselves are coming to a close, racists.

    1. If only it was that easy, Jazz...

  16. Harvey Dent is allergic to parasitesFriday, August 24, 2012 at 6:02:00 PM EDT

    Even more reason why I'll be done sooner than later with Québec:

    "Quelque 142 000 Québécois vont payer 610 millions$ de plus en impôt pour financer, en partie, la décision du Parti québécois d’abolir la taxe santé."

    That amounts to about $4500 per person.

    « On a décidé de soulager la classe moyenne, c’est un choix qu’on a fait », a dit Pauline Marois. « Les plus fortunés sont capables d’en faire un petit peu plus », a-t-elle ajouté.

    Oh really?

    Guess who qualifies as rich in Québec? Here, I'll let La Presse take it from here:

    Cette mesure sera financée en augmentant de 4 points de pourcentage l'impôt des particuliers qui gagnent plus de 130 000 $ par année

    OK, so taxpayers in La Belle Province who earn $130K already get ass-slammed to the tune of $30K/year in taxes just so S.R can spend his days trolling this site under multiple pseudonyms, but now you're going to take that taxpayer below the $100K mark?

    Here's my question to both the feds and seps on this site...what kind of incentive do self-respecting, ambitious Québécois taxpayers have to remain in the province?

    1. None, apparently. The only reason I applied to a job there was so that I could jump up in responsabilities/job title; I calculated that it would only pay for within 4-5 years. Afterwards I will probably look for something else.

      That, and I've always wanted to live in Montreal - and this is the only point in my life where it won't be financial suicide.


    2. [I've always wanted to live in Montreal - and this is the only point in my life where it won't be financial suicide]


      It won't be financial suicide only if JJ Charest wins!

    3. Granted, GensDenis. I hope for a CAQ or PLC win.

  17. Well the péquiste JM Leger has the PQ winning a minority.

    =Gens Denis, That's hilarious. I can't believe a a
    man educated as you are would think that Marois
    economics are better than Charest. If the PQ hadn't
    let the infrastructure rot, Charest would not have to spend so much money on repairs. He is still struggling to pay the ridiculous raises they gave the civil servants to get them on side. Who was finance minister back then? Ed

    1. AnonymousSaturday, August 25, 2012 3:26:00 AM EDT

      Gens Denis., Pardon my ignorance. I misread your post and commented wrongly. My bad. Forgive please. Ed

    2. TO ED BROWN
      You successfully entered CORRECTION in the box where your Name should go.
      Now just enter ED BROWN every time in the same place every time you post and your name will appear correctly!

    3. Pépère Brown est pas très rapide,il doit avoir au moins 60 balais!

    Gens Denis., Pardon my ignorance. I misread your post and commented wrongly. My bad. Forgive please. Ed

  20. This just in - according to the latest Léger poll, the PQ is leading with 33% and the CAQ is second with 28%, with only 27% for the PLQ.

    This is in a big contrast with the Forum poll which had placed Charest at 35% vs marois at 28 and Legault at 24.

    1. @ Yannick

      "Leger selected its respondents from its Internet panel, which includes 185,000 Quebecers."

      This might explain the unexpected results.

    2. Forum poll was only based on 1600 surveyed. This one's based on 185,000 -- so it's probably more accurate.

    3. @Jarry Street - based on past reccord, Leger gets it right more often than Leger

      @Pallo - They didn't ask 185 000 people; rather, there is 185 000 people in their list and they asked a few thousand of them. Angus Reid operates the same way.

    4. When someone is on the internet list, they are not randomly polled. What I am saying is 185 000 internet poll is a closed user group. Forum actually made phone calls.

    5. List might be good enough that the sample is representative of the population, especially if you pick or control for demographics, location, etc...

      I don't know, statistics has always been the math that gave me the most issue. Give me differential equations any day, I can't understand what an ANOVA is.


    1. I am part of their Internet surveys and never got asked.

    2. Marcel Léger (June 8, 1930 - February 5, 1993) was a Canadian politician and a supporter of Quebec sovereignty, and founder of the polling firm Leger Marketing.
      He was born in Montreal on June 8, 1930. He is the father of pollster Jean-Marc Léger and Parti Québécois (PQ) MNA Nicole Léger.

      Léger Marketing separatists?? Biased and influenced polls??

    3. Be that as it may, the difference is that Leger is reporting the same thing it was reporting a week ago; it's Forum that was an "upset" poll.

      Guess it'll be settled when CROP comes in.

  22. The latest Leger poll is a completely biased piece of work. First of all, what kind of survey leads off with "who is your second choice?"

    If you take a closer look, you can see that the information has been carefully dissected to skate around the facts.

    I also have to wonder where they get their swaths from - chances are they're polling in places like Lac St. Jean and Rouyn-Noranda.

    1. What's wrong with asking people what's their second choice? It's a good way to acess hard vs soft vote.

      For instance, federally the Conservatives tend not to have a second choice at all, whereas half the libs have the NDP as a second choice and a good chunk of pre-orange crush NDP had Libs as a second choice. It explains why the conservatives never dip below 33% of the vote and why there was such a switch between liberal and NDP.

    2. It doesn‘t matter. People have a right to question a polling firm who‘s founders believe in taking Quebec out of Canada.
      We just keep handing these fucks the ammo.
      And anyone who doubts leger‘s bias, you should have seen the tantrum he threw when the forum poll came out.

    3. Nah JJ. You say "First of all, what kind of survey leads off with "who is your second choice?" ", you gotta back it up. You don't get to throw out accusations and when challenged reply with "It doesn't matter." If people could do that, they could say all kinds of bullshit on the off-chance that they aren't called out on it - like a poker player trying to rob the blinds by going all-in when the cards haven't been turned.

    4. I said nothing about his questions.
      As far as I‘m concerned we should be questioning the SHIT out of a guy who has long time and deep connections to the PQunt. If nanos or crop had similar connections to any other party I‘d do the same.
      And polls can affect the outcome of an election. If people take this for face value, a CROP poll could pick up an abandoning of the liberals for the caq as a response to his fucked up numbers.
      And like I said, he hit the ceiling when the forum poll came out, I didn‘t see anyone from Nanos, Angus, Ekos or Segma doing the same. But then again they probably aren‘t as deeply connected to any of these parties as Leger is.
      What bullshit.

    5. Sorry - it was Harvey Dent who mentioned the questions. My bad.

      Couldn't the same be said about the Forum poll which placed Charest so high?

    6. You could speculate. But find me someone high up in that company who is connected as deeply to the plq.
      Imagine a polling company with deep ties to the Conservatives influencing an election campaign? People would freak out. But since Léger is part of the whiney separacist minority no one says shit.

    7. It's influence peddling.

  23. Parizeau is supporting option Nationale. I wonder if that will take a percentages away from the PQ? Quebec Solidaire and Option Nationale together could chew away enough percentages to let Liberals get a clear majority.

    Parizeau really has it in it for Marois to attack her just before the election date.

    1. Yes! - Crazy Marois and Parizeau - I wonder why he's peed off with her? Probably because she won't promise another never-endum-referendumb in her mandate. What gets me is, at the first sign of trouble, he'll be off to his chalet in France without a second thought. Wonder if there's enough room there for all the separatists? Goodbye and so long (wishful thinking).

    2. I always got the vibe from Parizeau that he thought he thought of himself as alot more intelligent and classy then most of the PQ rank and file. I think his problem with Marois is alot more personal then just her being open about having a referendum. The PQ has a tendency to let out their internal schisms out in the open.

    3. Perhaps, but they're all cut from the same cloth. A lot of people out there on the web agree with me that Marois and Legault will team up soon after the election and say their people do want a referendum and they have no choice but to have one. Damn, wanted that lottery last night and then I wouldn't care because money would mean naught to me (property value would not matter). I would stick around long enough to support my fellow Canadians and then go and live in peace somewhere. Oh well, to sleep to dream. They are now calling for (on CBC) PQ minority with Legault coming in second. God, I hope our federalists get out to the polls to ensure that doesn't happen. Mr. Charest does not have to worry - he will go back into federal politics. He is between a rock and a hard place but he's still our only hope for peace. We need a new "Partition Party".

    4. Boy-o-boy-o-boy-o-boy-o-boy! I get the best of both worlds. I live in the land of milk and honey (at least compared to the cesspool called Quebec) where politics, thank God, is deathly boring vs the lunacy going on in the Quebec where I no longer file a tax return, again thank God!

      That Gazette story is too delicious! I've been giddy since I read it a short while ago because Parasite and Hardwad deserve each other. The idea of a PQ minority with CAQ in second appeals to me very nicely because if you think Quebec politics was a circus before this election call, ya ain't seen nuthin' yet! I only wish I could watch the Montreal newscasts live because I'd sacrifice Toronto news for the circus going on your way (and I still have the hots for Annie Demelt, married with a kid or not married with a kid)! Meh, the Toronto reporters are hotties too on CTV! I guess the prerequisite for being a TV reporter/anchor these days is looking hot, even the old does are cougarlicious!

      Oops! I'm digressing. At least the CAQ has some cuties and a couple of hotties, so guys, get out there and vote for the hotties. Sorry, I guess I'm still giddy over the Gazette story...

    5. You're right- it's a circus and wish we didn't have to go through it every damn election. Does anyone know if there is anything officially setup for the creation of a Partition Party anywhere in Quebec? I live in the Outaouais and was reading an interesting article from a newspaper awhile back suggesting how we could partition Quebec and not end up in a Northern Ireland situation.

    6. Cutie, you may not like this but Peter Blaikie, founding partner at the well-known Heenan Blaikie law firm and former president of Alliance Quebec, is of the opinion that there should be a Montreal Party, as opposed to a new single-issue Equality Party or a Partition Party (?) to represent Quebec anglos (around the 8:15 mark).

      This discussion was part of the CBC’s “None of the Above” series that focuses on anglos who (unlike francophones, who have 4 parties to choose from) don’t like any of the options, are tired of voting Liberal and will stay home and not vote for anyone or will spoil their ballot, which of course unfortunately favours electing the PQ.

    7. A bit off tangent, this line actually caught my attention from the Gazette's article:

      ...Marois told reporters after announcing PQ plans to revive Quebec’s forest industry by requiring as much as 30 per cent wood as a construction material in public buildings.

      Now we know for sure that she is not an engineer. How many percent of wood as construction material used in a building about 5 floors or more? Zero. Or she wants all government offices to be like single-family houses?

    8. Thanks for the info Cat but as I've said before, not just Montreal is interested in leaving Quebec if it secedes from Canada. We have the Pontiac and Gatineau who voted overwhelmingly to remain in Canada and as, we in Gatineau, are 10 minutes from the Ontario border, I'm positive we will be more than interested in choosing our own destiny. No separatist party in the world will convince these people that it's in their best interest to remain in Quebec. These are mainly bilingual Francophones/Anglophones and quite a few Allophones. We have very few separatists - some of course, but not enough to ever make a dent in the fact that we are Canadians first.

  24. Does anyone know what this Quebec 'citizenship' entitles?

    1. It entitles you to speak French or shut up at least initially

    2. I guess I won't miss it, then.

    I've heard some people talking about forming a partition party. They are the type that could do it.
    The feeling seems to be that it's too late now, let's sit back and see how the election comes out.
    If PQ wins they will definitely go ahead. Eed

  26. I'm interested in supporting a partition movement. I don't care if it's for a new province, a new state, a territory, or a friggin reservation.

    It's going to take a a lot a work to bring this mainstream. If anyone is already organizing, please let us know. Just sitting around some beers shooting the bull and brainstorming is a start.

    1. Great history has started around a table with bevies cheers!

    2. You may want to have a look at the recent blog posting about partition:

    3. You guys do realize by starting a partition party you are putting your lives at risk? The seps are a violent and intolerant bunch.

    4. Yeah, I don't know about that. Seps tend to be passive-aggressive. To be fair, there is very little violence here. I don't think I've ever heard even strident seps (I know a few personaly) call for any kind of violent action against anyone. No one takes partition (or Qc separation) seriously anyway. I'm not for partition because I believe QC will secede. I'm for it because Montreal has been getting a raq deal form the Prov and Fed Governments for decades. The electoral map gives us absolutely no leverage in the national assembly. Partition would be good for everyone. I just think we would have a hard time to get Montreal francophones on board (45% population after all), if some kind of watered-down version of bill 101 wasn't integrated in the new province's constitution - well, not constitution, but whatever founding legal document the new province would have.

    5. Al you do have a point

      I could live with some measures for some preservation of the French cultural heritage of a partitioned Montreal. All commercial signs should have to be bilingual and equal lettering none predominant. English and French schooling would be available based on the Canadian constitution. A certain percentage of immigration should still be from French speaking countries, who children would be obligated to go to French schools should they have received immigration points for speaking French. Unlike the wanted for English schools, I wouldn't want a complete collapse of French schools, though I would like to see most of the English schools that were forced to close down and become French schools revert to being english schools. French speakers should be guaranteed the right to be able to work in French in all government and government related jobs, and in the private sector for large companies, while at the same time not being able to prevent the same rights to non French speakers. In such a scenario while many workers would be unilingual most of the management would necessarily have to be bilingual to bridge the language gaps.

      A water downed version of bill 22 is a price I am willing to pay to no longer have pur laine chauvanism dominating anglo and allo areas in Quebec. Mutual Sovereignty might be a good concept to achieve this.

    It seems things are going well according to the polls. Let's not do anything to upset the apple cart. I don't know what's holding up the CROP poll. The debates are over, they should be out by now.

    1. What do you mean polls are going well? PQunt Léger just halted any momentum the Liberals had by placing them as the 3rd place party.
      Might I mention the PLQ scored way better in the interanl released by none other than the PQunt themselves.
      Shame on you Léger. Disgusting.

  28. I have a question for the Editor.

    Almost three years ago you wrote a piece arguing that Montreal is a better place to live than Toronto. Looking at the way things go, do you still believe in your assessment? I am interested in seeking opinion about the future of the city, 5, 10 or 15 years from now. Is the city's prettiness enough to make it a good place to live? Is the city good enough for someone who wants to start over?

    I myself am a bit 'stuck' in the city. My wife and I have jobs, my child studies in an English school and we already purchased our condo. Therefore, moving out is not as easy as it was before when we just came in the country. However, the future does not look very bright for us, be it in social, economical or political sense. Reading mainstream and social media just exacerbates my worries. It seems like we are forced to live constantly looking over our shoulders lest there is major change affecting our livelihood.

    And of course all the metrics says so. Montreal is the one with the lowest growth among all the major cities in Canada. The fact that Montreal is still the second largest city in Canada is because it was the biggest and the most important. Vancouver can not overtake Montreal simply because it is physically difficult for that city to do so, being surrounded by the ocean, the mountain and The United States.

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    2. This is an… I was going to say unusual but that’s not quite the right word… question for me. You see, I’m not an allo, Montreal is my hometown. My family is here and my grandparents, great-grandparents and great-great-grandparents are all buried on Mount Royal, so for me there is an emotional connection which transcends economics. Although I have spent many years living in different countries, this doesn’t change the fact that Montreal is home. In fact, the more I have travelled, the more I like Montreal; as with Goldilocks, it’s not too big, not too small, it’s just right. For me, living here is more for cultural rather than for economic reasons. If making as much money as humanly possible is your goal, surely London or New York would be more desirable. I have lived in Toronto as well and although I quite enjoyed it, I always found that Montrealers in Toronto seem to miss their hometown more than do Torontonians in Montreal. For that matter, I know of many native Ottawans who find that city stable but dull and come to Montreal whenever they can. My own brother lived in the States for many years. I suppose it was good for him economically but finding a bullet hole in your car, as he did, changes perceptions and he eventually moved back.

      Troy, I know you’re familiar with Asia so perhaps a comparison between Bangkok and Singapore might be appropriate. As you know, Singapore is like the Switzerland of Asia. Although quite interesting, it is also quite staid. On the other hand, some people might wonder how anybody in their right mind could choose to live in Bangkok; others find it to be the most interesting city in Asia. Tokyo, Seoul, Beijing, Shanghai and Hong Kong are all very enjoyable and interesting places too but really, in the end, it simply becomes a matter of personal choice as to which one best suits you.

    3. I like this; cities are pretty personal. It's like a relationship. Box of chocolates. Each has its own attraction for a person.

      I like the cultural and the Goldilocks experience of Montréal as well; a lot; well said on both counts, imo.

      Ethnic cleansing is a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group.

      -- You know, remove “by violent means” and it’s not all that far from the truth.

      Oh, on that I agree completely. I can see that sentiment coming out of (certain, not all) mouths.

    4. Troy, I am asking myself the same question.

      I am lucky enough to have my own 'thing' and the majority of my clients are outside Qc, so I would basically lose maybe 15-20% of business. I have stayed here because I like Montreal and some family and most of friends are here. And I sincerely hoped that THE issue has been put aside. Unfortunately, this election has proven me wrong - and I am sincerely disappointed; if Mahwah would have at least put forward a valid economic and social plan, I would have accepted that their win is based on a sound policy... but no - it's a restrictive, xenophobic, ethnocentric platform. Nothing more, nothing less.

      And unfortunately, I don't see this changing too soon, especially when I hear that the young want to vote for O.N. Having a child now, makes me wonder if it's worth now staying here, since he'll never be 'pure laine' or quebecois enough... It's sad, actually.

    5. Hey, thank you all for your replies.

      The Cat,

      Your sentiment about Montreal is justified since you and your family has been here for decades. You have your roots here and it is your home in all practical senses. However, what if you do not have those factors? Ceteris paribus, is it still the greatest place to live in Canada? Or to limit oneself within my previous question, is it better than Toronto, objectively? Also my emphasis is on its future potential. To put it bluntly, is there any good future for an immigrant family with less-than-perfect French in Montreal?

      As for London and New York (I am certain it is not London, ON), the legal barriers are much too much to overcome. To work in other countries is really not as easy as one might think. Therefore I always laugh if some separatists suggest us to move out to the U.S. On the same token, I also laugh if others suggest separatists to move to France. Immigration process (temporary or permanent) is a tedious one. Believe you me. Been there, done that.

      As for the comparison between Bangkok and Singapore, I happen to have intimate knowledge with both cities. For me, as an expat I would choose Singapore any time. Yes it seems too sterile and bland but it is a very organized city / country. As long as one does not mind the government tells one to do (for one's own good) it is an excellent place to work and to make good living.

      To be a citizen, I really do not know. I am not crazy about the way Singapore government suppresses all dissenting voices and opposition movements. I am also not too fond with its mandatory death penalty (even if Thailand also have one). The other things that bothers me about Singapore are National Service (mandatory for citizens and Permanent Residents) and NSmen until 40 years old and the fact that one cannot own property there (ownership means 99-year lease). To be a Thai citizen? I am also not very comfortable with a society that makes people sit on the floor when meeting with the King. And of course I am very uncomfortable with a society where the Police Force openly killed university students with impunity, or where they resort on violence for political disagreement.


      That is exactly what I feel.

      I am still waiting for the Editor for his comment considering the current socio-economic-political atmosphere in Quebec. Does he still believe that Montreal is a better place than Toronto?

    6. Interesting piece comparing MTL to TO, via Troy's link.

      I've lived in both (and in Van) (and have visited many terrific cities). Big cities are generally wonderful. NYC, Kyoto, Chicago... they're all cool. They're like women, or men -- each has their own unique charm.

      Also, I'm not from any of these cities. I assume that the Editor is from Montréal, and many people just prefer the city they're from. (Again, I'm assuming and don't know).

      Montreal's 10/10 comes from having the finest English language University in Canada, (18th best in the world) an amazing achievement.
      I assume "finest Engilsh university" is McGill which the Editor recently commented on as slipping in its ranking (which makes me sad). But what jumps out is...

      Toronto has more great schools, but none with an international reputation.

      I'm not sure that's true.

      Toronto has the Toronto Islands Park, but you need a paid ferry ride and a up to 40 minutes to get there, and that's from downtown. Accessibility is the key.

      It's worth the paid ferry ride! An STM ticket to Mont-Royal and back home is the same price as the ferry.

      I know people who hit the nude beach there TWICE EVERY SINGLE WEEK, Victoria Day to Labor Day, with picnic coolers to hang all day long (ie. so much for the idea that "Torontonians are stay-at-homers" (and the perennial Montréal/Vancouver chestnut that "they are all lawyers who only like to work").
      If you know the ferry schedule, you can hit any of the terrific beaches without a long line-up.
      People who can't afford Cottage Country don't feel left out; Toronto Islands rock.

      (In fact I lived here for 2 years before I knew the Islands were even really there at all... I still remember my first time visting. That was the day I proclaimed, "This city freaking ROCKS!)

      And it's not even the main or primary park in Toronto; comparing it to Mont-Royal is close, but not exact.
      Toronto has the planet earth's largest urban ravine system. You can traverse from Etob to Scarb on a bike and rarely be on a street!
      High Park is no Stanley or Mont-Royal but it's alright. The Brickworks park is exactly the same as Mont-Royal, but inverted into a dip instead of a hill. It's got the same kind of trails for hiking and biking and rollerblading and dog walking. Plus, Toronto is packed of excellent (and large) neighborhood parks (ie. same as LaFontaine Park, for example).

      Anyway, just my three cents. Not to dispute the Editor's findings that Montréal is "better". Toronto is cool; it is growing serious problems (urban sprawl for starters, lousy subway system that can't begin to service the GTA of today), but its diversity is unique, special, and dynamic. More people from more different places around the entire planet are here... and the violence rate is really not very high considering that.

      The Editor says it has no identity, and that's a valid, legit opinion. However, I find its identity is strong --- it's not always an identity I personally am thrilled with, in each and every aspect, but it has one.

      Anglo Montrealers live in two cultures and enjoy it.

      There's more than two cultures in Toronto. And you can post signs in Polish or Chinese characters or Greek or (yes, it's true) in French.

      Just sayin'.

      This may sound like "Toronto vs Montréal", but please understand that I love Montréal. A lot.

      It's Betty and Veronica; Ginger and Marianne. Luke and Han.

      I'd love to move back to Montréal again someday, and I don't consider myself a "Torontonian", just a person who currently lives here. I have loved having the chance to know a bit of both of them (as well as Vancouver, which also freaking rocks)

    7. Really loved this description of Bangkok and Singapore; haven't been to either (yet).

    James, I am an optimist. I believe the poll that says Liberals at 33% PQ at 29. Optimism has served me well and I stand by it. Ed

  30. God Ed - I hope you're right! Meanwhile, as to partition and violence, I think that being pushed as far as Marois is trying to push us, without partition there will be violence anyway. Canada will need it's own peacekeeping forces in this area for sure. There would be literally thousands pushed out of work here (most work for the federal government) and they would lose their life savings having invested in their homes. I'm in the Outaouais. Before the 1995 referendum, every second house was for sale and this time there are thousands of new homes that have been purchased by federal government workers. Add to this that there are no where near enough doctors or medical facilities so we use doctors in Ontario and hospital facilities. All of this would surely bring trouble.

    1. By the way, last referendum we voted 95% "no" so I don't know how it could work that the separatists think they could keep our land in a new Quebec without our having a say in our destiny or how they could convince 95% of the population of the Outaouais to change to ``yes`` in another referendum. Ergo partition is the only answer, otherwise there will be violence anyway.

  31. Allez,debout les anglos!Allez encourager votre ami GoGo juste avant le scrutin,cela nous apportera quelques votes de plus pour nous les seppies.Yessss...heu....OUI!

    1. As a matter of fact I really want this because I want you out of my country....

    2. Gogo et gogu iront manifester le 3 Septembre contre les Québécois.Bravo pour la stratégie.
      Honnêtement,je crois que vous devriez engager un bon conseiller,vous semblez éprouver de sérieux problèmes organisationnels,tellement que j'ai presque envie de vous donner un coup de main.IN-CRO-YA-BLE,vraiment.

  32. incroyable how stupid you are like big words and complicated sentences but you lack brains. Is it boring inside yo momma's basement? She still asks about me I guess...

  33. Congratulations, Pauline. You've taken right-wing and left-wing extremism and thrown them together into a political strategy not even a fool would call balanced. Not only that, but you've made selfish decisions which even most of your fellow PQ MPs wouldn't support. I can't wait until the day Pauline Marois leaves politics for good. She's not only embarrassment to the PQ (as far fetched as that may sound), but to Quebec and all of Canada as well.

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    1. @ L'aiglon

      L'avantage d'être bilingue et d'être libre de s'exprimer dans la langue de son choix n'a pas de prix.Le monde est grand et c'est une grave erreur que de vous limiter à la culture américaine.Aussi,vos références cinématographiques nous donne une idée de votre âge et que ceci ne devrait en rien constituer un obstacle à l'ouverture de votre esprit et de vos horizons culturelles.Il n'est jamais trop tard pour apprendre :)

  35. who in their right mind would descend into lower magnitudes of literacy the dying french culture has illustrated the world over, haiti, rewanda, berunda, viet nam, french north africa, quebec , ethnically cleansing its anglos, trying ti disenfranchise the 6 nations, will eventually lead to an end to quebecs francais families who have 1.7 children per family, all whom speak english