Wednesday, July 4, 2012

McGill University Medical School Decline was Inevitable

Almost a year ago, I wrote about McGill University Medical school lowering its standards in order to attract more francophone students. It seems that this decision has led the chickens to come home to roost. 
Back then I wrote;
"In one fell swoop McGill has destroyed its reputation. It is in the process of turning itself from an elite program into a run of the mill secondary medical school.

It's sad.....
All of you over at the University of Toronto medical school.... STOP LAUGHING!!!!!  McGill Caves in to Language Pressure- Affirmative action Arrives
Sadly my prediction has come true, McGill's medical school's world ranking has plummeted and it likely has to do with that dreadful decision to cave in to language extremists.

The university has been under fire for several years by French language militants who complained bitterly that over half of the McGill medical graduates end up leaving the province to pursue a career in greener pastures. According to these militants, it's unfair to subsidize doctors leaving to work elsewhere.
By the way, these are the same people who I imagine, believe it's just dandy to poach doctors from third world countries to work in Quebec, but I digress....

Instead of defending itself against the scurrilous charges that intimates that it is somehow the fault of the Anglo doctors, instead of the facts on the ground, McGill decided to capitulate and set out to accept more francophone students into the program to help stem the tide.

It was a classic cave-in that has contributed to McGill losing its place as the premier medical school in Canada.
According to QS World University Rankings® McGill remains Canada's best university but is losing ground fast.

In 2009 McGill was the 10th highest rated medical school in the world, but has slipped to 24th in the two years following.

The University of Toronto's medical school which now ranks 16th in the world, takes over from McGill as Canada's best medical school.

Small consolation is the fact that according to the report, Montreal remains the best student city in Canada ranking 10th in the world, while Toronto remains 26th.
A few more student demonstrations and intemperate acts of depravity and that can change too.

The precipitous fall is likely attributed to the decision to drop the critically important MCAT (Medical College Admission Test) exam, a decision made by panicked administrators.
"Dr. Saleem Razack, assistant dean of admissions for medicine says McGill would have kept the MCAT requirement if there was a French equivalent. “But we want to make sure there’s no barrier for a major segment of our population.”  Link
The exam is a standardized test (like the LSAT for lawyers) and is the principle tool that just about all medical schools in the United States and most in Canada, use to evaluate candidates.
While schools like McMaster and University of Ottawa don't require MCATs, elite programs most certainly do.
In the United States, the MCAT score is typically given as much weight as GPA.
The MCAT is a formidable test and requires months and months of study. It is available in English only and taking the test in a second language, regardless of the student's dedication and proficiency, is enough of a handicap to hurt outcomes.
As I said, the MCAT is dastardly difficult.

And so the decision was made to flood the medical school with francophones, throwing standards out the window in the process.
Congratulations....


On a certain level I can understand McGill's decision to add the francophone element.
As it stands now, under the new admissions policy, anglophones represent about 91 out of the 810 medical school slots across Quebec, a reasonable demographic representation, to be fair.

It is just sad that in order to even things up, standards had to be slashed and a world-class reputation sacrificed.

As for the knock that McGill graduates leave the province, who is really to blame for that?
 
One of the principle reasons that so many McGill graduates leave is that there are just no jobs available. McGill turns out a great deal of specialists, something that the Quebec government has deemed to be in oversupply.
In Quebec, a doctor needs a government issued license (PREM) to practice and without a PREM, there's little chance to practice.

Even in family medicine, PREMS for anglos in the Montreal area are few and far between.
The reaction of the health minister is to tell anglos that there are jobs available, if they are willing to move to Chibougamau or Val D'Or, or some other godforsaken backwoods hick-town, something not entirely appetizing to an Anglo Montrealer.
The government's rationale in all this, is that while Montreal lacks family doctors, the need is greater in the hinterland and until the gap is narrowed...it's no soup for you, young doctor!

Read this excellent explanation of the ridiculous situation;
Making sense of Montreal’s family doctor shortage 

This in a province where 25% of the people don't have a family physician.

And so there is a steady stream of highly-trained young doctors leaving Quebec, taking their Quebec paid education with them to practice, mostly in the United States, many not by choice.

I know of one New York City hospital that has three McGill grads on staff, each chased out of Quebec because of a lack of jobs.
This last month a young thoracic surgeon that I know of, left after seven years of residency, because no Quebec job was forthcoming. Thirty years of education and training frittered away by this province.

For young francophone doctors, its more difficult to leave, most are a prisoner of culture and language.
Most doctors on the francophone side take the fast-tracked, pre-med cegep route to medical school, where English as a second language is largely ignored.
For them, moving out of Quebec is not an option and so like teachers and other unilingual professionals, they are forced to accept an incredibly steep  'home team discount'

For Anglo doctors, the combination of nonexistent or decidedly poor prospects, makes the decision to leave easy, but nonetheless, very painful.

Most graduating anglo doctors want nothing more than to serve their community in their own home town and its more than a little bit sad for them and for us that they leave.

Trust me readers.... on this, I know.

147 comments:

  1. The "Home Team Discount" also applies in my field, where Quebecers are paid about two thirds of what other Canadians are (and a third of what they'd earn in the US) and require only a Master's while the ROC requires the Ph.D. as well as a 2 year extra program. Quebec is also, I believe, the only province that does not require accreditation by the national professional order in order to progress in salary.

    It's unfortunate, really. I'd love to live/work in Montreal, but stuff like this makes me anxious to try.

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  2. That's the inevitable result when you choose to cheapen yourself in order to be "democratic" and "social", a sort of communist version of the UQAM without separatists in it.

    The worst mistake ever made by McGill was to lower its standards to become franco-friendly, i.e., pretend the gap between Anglophones-Allophones and quebecois does not exist in the name of a philosophically non-existing freedom of education. Education is not on sale!

    The more you cheapen yourself to become popular, the more riffraff you will attract.

    WA

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  3. Mr. Sauga (no relation to Mrs. Sauga)Wednesday, July 4, 2012 at 8:55:00 AM EDT

    Quebec became "riffraff" when Bou-bou and his so-called federalist Liberal Party passed Bill 22. I was in the middle of my adolescence, and my mind was made up right then and there that my future was not in Quebec. I completed my tuition-free CEGEP and cheap university at a good business school, had my university convocation on June 9, 1982, and left for Ontario the very next day, making a point of having my car stopped just before the Ontario border, getting out of the car and walking out of Quebec, a dream of mine for almost a decade. 30 years later, I have vivid memories of that moment, and as long as I have my memory, that moment will ALWAYS remain fresh in my mind.

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    1. I almost forgot to add that here it is 30 years past the hour and I don't regret my decision of those days one bit.

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    2. Do you copy-paste this story or you retype it everytime?

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    4. Anon: Do my stories bore you? Read something else. I'm an original. Don't need to plagerize myself. Any other stupid questions?

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    5. "Je pense que Mr. Sauga présente les premiers signes d'alzheimer."

      Je crois simplement que son univers se limite à sa petite personne,son petit quartier et à sa petite histoire de merde.

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    6. "Do you copy-paste this story or you retype it everytime?"

      Ça ressemble à du copié/collé avec de légères variantes ici et là.C'est plate en calvaire l'ontario.

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    7. to anonymous on 10:42
      Wow, your life of trolling around this blog must be SO pathetic and miserable that I have come to the conclusion that perhaps you might just consider hanging yourself using a noose and leave more space for those who are actually worth of existing. People like you are clearly a waste of space and the best fit for the word pollution since the word in question clearly defines who you truly are on the inside as well as on the outside. hell it's even written on your deformed inbred forehead...

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    8. Unforunately people like that troll have no dignity left, so the only think they can do it to hope not to reborn at all or at least to reborn under the lowest form of life (=quebecois).

      WA

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    9. Wednesday, July 4, 2012 12:35:00 PM EDT

      Ouais,certains anglos sont vraiment inintéressants...Pfffff

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    10. OK, for something more original, I think it's reprehensible that McGill has chosen to take the low road. McGill was one of the few redeeming features of a once-great City of Montreal, and like most of the city, McGill has gone bad.

      I became colossally disappointed after some of the students at my alma mater, Concordia, acted like destructive wild animals when Israeli PM Benjamin Netenyahu was supposed to speak there several years ago. Heaven knows anti-Israeli pro Palestineans have been given that consideration to speak without Jewish students wrecking the property. I get called periodically to donate to my alma mater, and after this and other anti-Semitic occurrances over the years, I will not contribute another dime to Concordia University.

      So...to my bored anonymous readers who don't have the gonads to in some way distinctly identify themselves, I hope that is original enough for you. Quebec as a whole is continually slipping into Third World status with its collective lack of will to fix its economy and continue to vote for spineless, gonadless robots that simply continue to let the infrastructure rot and the education system invest in human duds.

      I hope Pauline Marwad wins so big she'll have a madate to have another referendum and finally get costly Quebec out of Canada once and for all. Québéquois are NOT loyal to Canada because the tail never stops wagging the dog and Quebec society collectively sits with its thumb up its rectum complacently while it's all happening.

      It simply seems Quebec keeps giving itself the democracy it deserves. The minorities are far too compliant, and the Francophone majority seems content to let the zealots rant, rave and be the tail that endlessly wags the dog.

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    11. Clap clap clap clap clap...Bravo pour l'effort...Clap clap clap clap clap..

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    12. To those trolling. If anything, I find Mr. Sauga recounting his story of leaving Quebec... INSPIRING! I am being completely serious. As a matter of fact, the day I finally leave this god forsaken excuse for a province, I think I will do exactly the same. My aspiration to leave is so great, and been so many years in the making, I would like to walk over the Ontario border on foot just as he did (oh, and perhaps then turn around, give my middle finger, and then wave goodbye, forever).

      I also find what he writes, as interesting, if not more so, than the articles themselves on this site. He points out the truth that often others are afraid to speak (apparently anything negative about Quebec is consider politically uncorrect) and it's no wonder I see separatist jumping all over his comments.

      As for McGill, it seems now the entire province, and every institution in it, is in self-destruct mode. I can't turn on the local news (actually national now!) without seeing a story about Quebec shooting itself in the foot. Last night it was about the Alberta man arrested in Quebec for his cross-country run (a la Terry Fox) to raise money for cancer. Police in every other province waved to him, even gave him escorts and encouragement. Step foot in La-Not-So-Belle-Province, arrested on some ridiculous technicality. Oh, and the Canadian flags ripped off his driver's van because, as he was told, Canada flags have no place being flown or displayed in Quebec.

      Then there was also the story of the dog abandoned and locked in a Laval bathroom for several days without food, water or air-conditioning. Left to die. Ahh, the Quebecois love for animals, just warms the heart, doesn't it. Also a nice tidbit than Quebec landlords ban pets in apartments, yet in Ontario that is illegal to do (adding to the fun of 25,000-50,000 cats and dogs abandoned in Quebec during moving day; and not a DAMN thing police will do about it). Rampant animal abuse, and no protection laws against that in this province alone is my reason above for giving the finger to this hell-hole of a
      province.

      I certainly hope the PQ is voted back in this fall, they hold a referendum and win. I will even vote 'Oui' to help put Quebec in its noose. Quebec has absolutely no place--zero--nada, in the country of Canada and what Canada stands for.

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    13. "...and it's no wonder I see separatist jumping all over his comments."

      Ce n'est pas ce qu'il dit le problème,c'est qu'il le répète chaque jour sur ce blogue depuis au moins deux ans.

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    15. Je dois adhérer. J'étais sûr, moi aussi, que Sauga avait copié-collé son commentaire encore une fois. Son 'sob story', on le voit 3 fois par fil. J'ai appris à juste passer par-dessus.

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    16. "Ce n'est pas ce qu'il dit le problème,c'est qu'il le répète chaque jour sur ce blogue depuis au moins deux ans."

      To be fair, he's not copying and pasting the same text (which I've seen others do, and granted is annoying), but instead simply retelling his story. I have no problem with that, and in fact welcome it because people outside the province and country NEED TO KNOW Quebec's dirty little secrets. They need to know people have been made so uncomfortable and paralyzed here, they've had no choice but to leave.

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    17. "...NEED TO KNOW Quebec's dirty little secrets."

      Tout à fait en accord,de cette façon ils n'auront pas la "mauvaise" surprise d'apprendre que notre langue officielle est le français.

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    18. Apple IIGS: As usual, thanks for your compliments. It's really pathetic how this whole situation seems to get incredibly worse as the days go by. Arresting a runner is ridiculous even if it's against the law. At least the runner maintained a good attitude. The flag flap is typical in Quebec, and crap like that has an adverse affect on Quebec society's reputation, even if it's a few bad apples spoiling the bushel.

      I think for the separatists, putting Marois in this time just may work. You've had enough of the merde de toreau, so have I and so has Galganov. We exchanged e-mails a few weeks ago where he reiterated Quebec can separate, and good riddance. I'd really love to see a federal party form to push the envelope and force Quebec society to decide once and for all to love Canada or leave it. Either they're with us and abolish the language legislation or they stay agin us by retaining the language legislation. The language legislation is an act of war. This crap has been on the books for 38 years starting with Bill 22, enacted on July 31, 1974.

      It's not as if the bastards are going to go to war against the RoC, just like WWII. They called it "Britain's War". No, it was Hitler's war, and there were plenty of Nazi sympathizers in Quebec, starting with PM #15, and you can guess who THAT was! On top of that, it was FRANCE that was occupied by the Nazis, not Britain. Did Quebec come to France's defense? Degaulle led the resistance movement, and that sonofabitch sticks his big protruding beak into Canada's business, encouraging Quebec to separate. He seemed to have forgotten how Quebec hid behind conscription when he could have used reinforcements! It was mostly English speakers who invaded Normandy on D-Day. Degaulle the Dickhead!

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    21. Please Mr.Sauga tell everybody we're not a friends

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  7. What test do medical schools in Paris use for admission?

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  8. http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/04/12559386-ukraine-seethes-after-russian-language-law-voted-in?lite

    Ukraine seethes after Russian language law voted in.

    "Russian will acquire the status of a regional language in regions where it is the native tongue for at least 10 percent of the population, or 13 out of Ukraine’s 27 administrative-territorial entities, including the cities of Kiev and Sevastopol."

    "The authors of the bill maintain that it preserves the status of Ukrainian as the only state language."

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    1. Yes, JB, and in Latvia, there are also language police hired to enforce signs be only in Latvian. Simply revenge against their Russian rulers until the USSR disbanded in 1992. That's what it is: R-E-V-E-N-G-E!

      What is Bill 101 against the English speakers of Quebec? R-E-V-E-N-G-E!

      Preservation of the French language? MEH! MALARKY! MERDE DE TOREAU!

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    2. Like Lucien Bouchard's PQ election signs used to read: J'ai confiance!

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  9. To all my compatriots, I would like to wish you a wonderful Fourth of July!

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    1. You're welcome. BTW, the Expos (now Nats) are leading the Giants 4-3.

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    2. A belated Happy Independance Day to our American friends.

      Please invade Quebec soon!

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  10. "To all my compatriots, I would like to wish you a wonderful Fourth of July"

    :D

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  11. I have no knowledge on medical education or on public health administration. But from what I read here, the root of the problem does not seem to be the French / English polemic.

    So there is a strange situation happens. There is demand, there is supply, but regulator prevents both sides to meet. In this case, I think it is a bad management on the government's side and it shows the bad side of forced socialism.

    If one was a physician, what are the benefits of practicing in the boondocks? I would say almost none. From medicine points of view: The variety of the illness surely is greater in the city, communication with other physician is easier in the city, research in medicine is certainly done more in the city. From personal points of view: Less exciting life, less amenities, isolation.

    Therefore, I think the regulator should put an incentive for those working in the outback. Like in oil companies, for example. Oil companies usually have an index for living hardship for those assigned overseas. One company I know put the index between 1 to 2. Working in North America or Western Europe gives an index of 1, meaning just the salary. Working in UAE is 1.2, Saudi Arabia is 1.5, again it means one and half the salary. Sub-Saharan Africa gives 2, double the salary. Areas in conflict are not listed, but they can be 3 to 4.

    After all, while living cost maybe lower in Chibougamau than in Montreal, I think it is more expensive in the long run to get a quality of life similar to that of Montreal.

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    1. Keep telling yourself what you wrote in your last sentance...over and over and over. While you're at it, stand in the middle of Cathcart St. during a gusty cold winter's day in late January singing "Were having a heat waaaaave...a tropical heat waaaaave...!"

      Keep telling yourself what you wrote when it's almost impossible right now to get a doctor in Quebec, including Montreal, and all you can expect in the future is a parade of quacks graduating from McGill university who will prescribe Baby Aspirin for a massive heart attack. You just keep singing your little song...

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    2. Mississauga,

      What? Are you okay, man? Your post makes no sense.

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    3. What is it you don't understand?

      Rents and restaurants may be A LITTLE cheaper in Montreal vs Toronto and other places, but that's only because the taxes eat more of your disposable income. If you've been renting in one particular place for a long time, you better stay there because of the rent control.

      I find cheaper groceries and better specials in Toronto as I've gone into grocery stores since leaving Montreal on visits. Gas costs less here too!

      As mentioned above, doctors in Quebec are nickeled and dimed to death by RAMQ; furthermore, their fee structure is very low, and now McGill is becoming another also-ran university that before too long will be turning out quacks. Sad, considering huge donations have been made to McGill in the past. You can be sure that will dissipate over time.

      Get it now?

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    4. But Sauga, Troy wasn't talking about Toronto vs Montréal. He was talking about Montréal vs Rural Quebec, which was the subject of the Editor's post. You guys are arguing about two entirely different topics.

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    5. Mississauga,

      Just as Yannick pointed out, I was not writing about Montreal against any place outside of Quebec. I was writing about quality and cost of life in Chibougamau compared to those in Montreal.

      I did not try to insult. I simply did not understand your train of thought.

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  12. I love it, you do keep us laughing.

    Keep it up language Nazis, keep it up bigots. More money to be spent outside the racist province of Kebec. Puts a smile on my face.

    With apologies to the English speakers on Kebec.

    Keep it up language Nazis...

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  13. Est-ce que les canayens fêtent aussi le 4 Juillet?

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    1. In my opinion if it's possible to be Quebecois and to be Canadian, it's possible to be Canadian and to be American. We have the same language and the same culture. Why all that fear of the Other?

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    2. Because some morons are way to afraid to step over the line to go explore a new "field" that differs from their own. You know,something known as "fear of the unknown", which our seppie troll is severely suffering from!

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    3. Quelque chose de différent dans votre genre?...Non merci.Pas perdu grand chose,je ne crois pas que vous soyez un + pour l'humanité.

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  14. I think it was Levinas who said that you can be you only with the others in your prospective.

    WA

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  15. Est-ce que les americans fêtent aussi le 1 Juillet?

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    1. La question n'est pas de savoir si les Américains célèbrent le premier juillet, mais bien de savoir pour encore combien de temps les Canadiens-anglais vont-ils célébrer ce jour de Confédération.

      En effet, lorsque le Québec formera un pays, le Canada de 1867 ne sera plus. Ce sera donc un échec.

      Peut-on s'imaginer quelles seront la joie et la fierté des Canadiens-anglais lors des premier juillet suivant le référendum gagnant, alors qu'ils célébreront un échec ?

      À mon avis, au lieu de célébrer un échec année après année, les Canadiens-anglais vont peu à peu se détourner du premier juillet pour embrasser, trois jours plus tard, le quatre juillet.

      D’autant plus que leur immigration grandissante n'en a rien à foutre de leur monarchie britannique. Les yeux de leur immigration sont soient tournés vers leur communauté respective soit vers les Américains, comme les autres Canadiens-anglais...

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    2. Jean-Guy,

      What if, what if, what if. Tell you what, Quebec will NEVER get its independence. Not in our life time. What about that? If you have something substantial to counter my argument, I am all ears. Or maybe eyes.

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    3. Laissez-nous rêver!...Trouille

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    4. @ Jean-Gay,

      Quebec will become bankrupt immediately following independence. It won't even be able to afford musical events, a parade or fireworks on Johnny Baptist Day. The Quebecois population will all return to living on farms and will start breeding like rabbits again, as they did in the past, since they won't have the money to do anything else.

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    5. "... return to living on farms and will start breeding like rabbits again"

      Et si c'était ça le vrai sens de la vie?

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    6. Mr. Sauga to Troy...again «sigh»Thursday, July 5, 2012 at 8:28:00 AM EDT

      Awwww...c'mon, man! Show some support. Quebec separation would be the best thing for Canada. Over $10 billion in equalization and other payments saved. That's an easy cut to our deficit...and a colossal burden added to Quebec's!!!

      I refuse to support the sinking Good Ship Quebec!

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    7. "I refuse to support the sinking Good Ship Quebec!"

      Dommage que vous n'ayez aucun pouvoir de décision :(

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    8. "Dommage que vous n'ayez aucun pouvoir de décision"

      We have more power than you think. It's just not visible.
      Yours is visible (joual signs) because you count nothing and you know to count nothing, that's why you have this spasmodic drivel (or urgency) to be seen and heard everywhere.
      Ours is invisible because we count and don't need to show it off at all.

      WA

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    9. Mississauga,

      While our opinions may be on the same page on many issues, in this issue they certainly are not. While Quebec will suffer more in the event of separation, Canada will not be better off without Quebec. Look at all social, economic, political aspects, the separation of Quebec will be a lose-lose situation for Quebec and the rest of Canada.

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    10. "It's just not visible."

      Vive la loi 101!

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    11. "Vive la loi 101!"

      ...which is invisible at 100%, as nobody gives a fig of it.

      WA

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    12. Elle est pourtant le sujet principal de discussion de ce blogue,non? :D

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    13. Sorry man. Like your response to my comment further above, I don't get your comment of 7:25pm. Are you feeling all right?

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    14. Mississauga,

      Now you are being unpleasant.

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  16. Runner for charity arrested in Quebec

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_NeiJOJsgvo#!

    Hahahahahaha!

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  17. I'd just like to point out that as sad as it is to lower standards, it's not exactly insane for the Province to want the money it invests in higher education to somehow go in improving the education of its citizens and not just foreigners.

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    1. Yannick,

      Foreign students cost the Province nothing - except for those from the countries that have special arrangements with Quebec. Their tuition fees are high enough to make them self-sustained. In fact universities like McGill actually make profits out of international students.

      On a rather different note, I find the sentiments across separatist groups to be quite discouraging. In terms of university education, they care less about academic and research excellence than the affordability (read: free) to all francophones who want to attend.

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    2. "Foreign students cost the Province nothing" Except when they're grad students - graduate students in the natural sciences usually get stipends that pays about 20 000$ a year, and international students get a bonus that covers the difference in tuition. I know this to be the case in Physics department of McGill, for instance.

      Ultimately that money comes from the government. McGill can only pretend that they are making money off of it like a man pretends that he's richer by moving his bills from his left pocket to his right.

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    3. "On a rather different note, I find the sentiments across separatist groups to be quite discouraging. In terms of university education, they care less about academic and research excellence than the affordability (read: free) to all francophones who want to attend."

      It may be that they have different priorities. As the editor points out, Francophones are woefully undereducated compared to anglophones. In New-Brunswick, this is due to the fact that Francophones were exclusively rural with no access to even high school until the 60-70's. We've come a long way.

      It may be that for those seperatists, trying to actually get people educated is more important than some high-brow university reputation or whatnot. Of course, they are not stopping to think that there's no point in getting educated if the education has no value.

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    4. Yannick,

      It is rather strange that you think that way. While I do not have research master's and doctorate like you do, I did work at McGill.

      Research is a major source of income for the university. University tries as best as it can to have its research activities funded by someone, be it public or private sectors. Rather well-known examples are Canada Foundation for Innovation (CFI) and National Research Council Canada (NRC). In fact, it is very hard for a professor / researcher to have research without any source of funding.

      Once the funding is in place, research can be conducted. The lead researcher needs people to help him with the research. That is where post-docs, PhD students and research master students play their part.

      So, the stipends and many forms of financial assistance for research students / fellows are paid by the funding agency. The university does not spend the money out of pocket. In fact, the university gains profits from the research. This in turn cause a bit of discontent among those in "soft science". You can imagine if there is research on Religious Studies and there is one on Advance Materials, which one the funding agency will choose.

      So no, in my experience. Research graduate students cost the Province nothing too. Their expenses at the university are paid by their research funding. So, to recap, I stand by my initial statement that foreign students cost nothing. If they are in coursework programs (bachelor or master) they pay themselves with their international fees. If they are in the research programs (master and doctoral) the research pay for their fees.

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    5. "So, the stipends and many forms of financial assistance for research students / fellows are paid by the funding agency."

      In some departments, certainly. However, in my experience, not in all of them. I've visited plenty of universities where stipends were guaranteed whether or not the individual professor had a grant. In some places, funding did depend entirely on the professor. In nearly all of the universities I researched, the grad students had stipends for the first year even if they were not doing any research. It may be that this money ultimately came from external funding agencies, I don't know. Certainly if it did it was not made explicit.

      In either cases, having an external grant such as a CIHR or an NSERC certainly made a student extremely competitive because such a student is essentially a "free" student, costing the department hardly anything.

      Grad students in the natural sciences also get up to half of their money from teaching assistanceship; in the universities I've frequented, they receive about 10000$-12000$ a year for roughly 10 hours a week of correction/lab demonstration, so it typically technically adds up to 35-40$/hour. Were correctors and lab demonstrators hired at market prices, they would certainly not be fetching 80 000$ a year. This teaching assistanceship money is certainly paid for by the university and therefore, ultimately, by the state. It's a cost-hiding measure to be sure.

      Some other part of the financial incentive to attract students is hidden in "scholarships" that everyone receives upon acceptance. This money certainly comes from the university and thus ultimately from the taxpayer as well.

      It's true that this money is not simply spent in educating students ; it also produces research. But it's also not spent entirely in research - it also educates students. Since the state foots the bill one way or another, it's not unreasonable for the state to expect that its own citizens are reaping some of the benefits.

      You'll agree with me, I'm sure, the ridiculousness a hypothetical case of a university funded by the taxpayer churning out 100% foreign students who did not stay on completion.

      Delete
    6. Yannick,

      You'll agree with me, I'm sure, the ridiculousness a hypothetical case of a university funded by the taxpayer churning out 100% foreign students who did not stay on completion.

      Of course. If there was a case where my taxpaying money is used for subsidy for international students, I would not be happy.

      However, separatist groups keep on issuing blanket accusation against McGill - particularly the Faculty of Medicine - saying that since it is an English institution, money paid by (mostly francophone) Quebecers are used only to educate those who will never work in the province. I have strong reservation to that accusation.

      On different note, until recently, education in Germany is completely free for everyone. Many people across the world took advantage of that situation. What do you think of that?

      Delete
    7. "On different note, until recently, education in Germany is completely free for everyone. Many people across the world took advantage of that situation. What do you think of that?"

      I think that's very altruistic of Germany, but I would not agree with it in my country. Such services are justifiable for the taxpayers, but it is hard to justfity them for foreigners. We could have free health care for everyone too, and people could fly in from South Africa to get a gastric bypass, but I wouldn't agree with that either.

      "However, separatist groups keep on issuing blanket accusation against McGill - particularly the Faculty of Medicine - saying that since it is an English institution, money paid by (mostly francophone) Quebecers are used only to educate those who will never work in the province. I have strong reservation to that accusation."

      It's a tough question to be sure. I think the Editor makes a good point that the reason anglophones educated at McGill don't stay within the province is because there are no opportunities. Francophones are less apt/willing to apply to opportunities above, so they content themselves with the slim pickings that are medical careers in Quebec.

      Why, just today I was speaking to a therapist from Montreal talking to me about how in Montreal her salary would have been from 16-23$/hour, whereas in Alberta she now fetches 52$/hour for her work. On top of that taxes are higher in Quebec than Alberta. Hard to argue against that.

      Delete
    8. Mr. Sauga to Yannick and TroyThursday, July 5, 2012 at 10:02:00 AM EDT

      Gentlemen (at least this is what I assume): Troy, I was about to tell you to save your fingertips as corresponding with Yannick at times is like communicating with a brick wall, but he finally wrote something sensible in his last paragraph.

      Yannick: You could have saved yourself a lot of time and typing by just looking at your last paragraph. Quebec indeed has very high income taxes, and they nickel and dime the medical people.

      I know of an opthalmologist in Montreal who would hit his fee cap paid to him by RAMQ by December. He closed his practice in that month partially because of the holiday slowdown, but also because any work he'd do beyond the cap would pay nothing. In most worlds, you can get nothing doing nothing, but in Quebec, they claw back the fees when there are no earnings due to shutdown.

      I also know of a psychologist who goes to Hawkesbury one day a week where he gets better OHIP fees to supplement his income. I think the opthalmologist should consider the same strategy. By going to Hawkesbury, Cornwall, Ottawa etc. one day a week will give him some cap room and enable him to supplement his income with OHIP money, and those areas can probably use his services. There is a shortage of opthalmologists in Ontario (and I can only imagine that problem tremendously magnified in Quebec).

      Another strategy is to offer Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad a job. Many Syrians speak French, and he is an opthalmologist, having studied the profession at the Western Eye Hospital, in London, UK. Quebec can throw him a parade for having pulled this coup.

      Anyway, the doctor situation in Quebec is another example of the Quebec Government and its minions again shooting themselves in the foot.

      Delete
    9. "corresponding with Yannick at times is like communicating with a brick wall" I resent this comming from Mr. Copy-Paste.

      We're too different to meet at the middle, let's leave it at that.

      Delete
    10. "In New-Brunswick, this is due to the fact that Francophones were exclusively rural with no access to even high school until the 60-70's. We've come a long way."

      Je suis sûr que tu as raison; je n'ai jamais habité a la Nouvelle-Brunswick. Mais je crois que la situation était différent au Québec, ou l'église décourageait l'éducation parmi les gens, sauf qu'ils soient éduqué par l'église. Les gens mal-éduqués sont beaucoup plus facile a manipuler que les gens bien éduqués.

      Cette impression vient de lisant en français, pas en anglais - et pas des traductions non plus, mais des écrivains franco-québécois.

      Delete
    11. Bien, je vais te parler des experiences que je connais, mon grand-père : il était fils d'un pêcheur pauvre qui possédait une maison avec une seule pièce. Il avait comme ~15 frères et soeurs, je ne sais pas pour sûr parce qu'il a perdu comme 4-5 de ses frères et soeurs au court des années. Dans son village, l'éducation s'arrêtait en 8ème année. Pour continuer son education, mon grand-père a du s'inscrire dans les moines. Il s'est sauvé une fois qu'il a reçû l'équivalent d'un diplôme secondaire. Pour devenir enseignant, il s'est rendu à l'Université de Moncton où il a reçû de la charité pour survivre.

      Je te peints un portrait digne du 19ème siècle, mais mon grand-père n'a que comme 70 ans - quand il était jeune, c'était les années 50.

      Mon autre grand-père, lui, venait d'une famille riche. Il connaissait l'anglais, donc il est allé à la "Normal School" à la capital provinciale pour devenir Maître d'École. Mais il n'aimait pas ça, donc quand la deuxième guerre mondiale à commencé, il s'est enrôlé comme volontaire pour obtenir l'éducation gratuite après la guerre. Il est devenu ingénieur comme ça. Bien sûr, dans le système anglais, et aux frais de l'état.

      C'était probablement bien différent au Québec, mais au Nouveau-Brunswick, à moins d'être riche, on était bien chanceux qu'il y avait au moins l'église pour nous donner un minimum d'éducation car sans l'église il y aurait presque rien eu. L'Université de Moncton à commencé comme le Collège St-Joseph, par une confrérie religieuse. Il y a fallu attendre le mouvement des droits linguistiques des années 60 et élire un Acadien comme Premier Ministre pour que ça devienne une vraie université subventionnée par l'état.

      Le premier-ministre, Louis-J Robichaud, était un acadien mais aussi un progressiste - il a instauré le programme "Chances Égales pour Tous" où les taxes étaient récoltées et dépensées au niveau provincial plutôt qu'au niveau du Comté. Avant, les comtés pauvres ne pouvaient se payer des services de santé ou d'éducation, et presque tous les comtés francophones étaient pauvre donc ça créait un cercle vicieux où on ne pouvait pas s'en sortir.

      Delete
  18. I was was accepted into McGill's Faculty of Medicine after taking the MCAT. Now, after several decades of experience I can tell you unequivocally that if a student or a physician cannot speak and read English fluently it is highly unlikely that they will ever be able to practice medicine or do research at the highest level.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Jonah,

      Even if one chooses to practice at Hotel-Dieu de Quebec or to do research at CHUQ?

      Delete
  19. Let me add that at the time that I was accepted McGill was notorious for having a quota on the number of Jewish students that were admitted into the Faculty of Medicine. Who was to blame for this? The WASPS who enforced the policy and the Quebec Provincial Legislature comprised of francophones who remained silent.Who were the losers? The population of Quebec who lost enormously talented students and physicians who left Quebec and, in a number of instances, attained incredible levels of achievement.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. A quota limiting the number of Jews who could get an education in the Faculty of Medecine? Crazy. You would think that it would be based on merit alone.

      From what I got from the Editor's post, though, I don't think there is a quota for francophone students. I just think they dropped the MCAD requirement, arguably in order to have Francophones compete on an equal* footing with anglophones.

      A side note, in New Brunswick the University of Moncton students used to have quotas in French medical schools in Quebec. Without such quotas I doubt New Brunswick would have been able to get its own doctors trained, as there was at the time no local medical program. Sometimes quotas can be good. I think, of course, that this was something negotiated for by the two provinces in lieu of an actual New Brunswick medical program.

      *equal is up for discussion of course.

      Delete
    2. Jonah, being Jewish myself and a loyal Ontarian to boot (born, raised and educated in Quebec, mind you), Quebec's losses were and still are Ontario's gains. Hooray for my side!

      Yannick, believe it (i.e., what Jonah wrote). WASPs have been amongst the worst bigots around, with their class structures (for example, the House of Lords), exclusive golf and country clubs (i.e., excluding Jews, Blacks, "Frenchmen" (their label, not mine), etc). Don't worry, Y, I'm sure they had equally derogatory innuendoes for all people who weren't WASPs. If you look into the CBC archives, you'll find the late René Lévesque's ode to the W.A.S.P., and believe me, I'm using the word ode paradoxically.

      Delete
    3. It's just that the WASPS of today don't seem anti-jewish, it's hard to think they ever were.

      Delete
    4. Yannick, you are too young to understand what actually the situation was like. You had to have lived through it to do so. Reading about it does not suffice. My mother applied for a job at Canada Steamship Lines and was told to her face that the company did not hire Jews. One small example among many.

      Delete
  20. Are some of you people suffering from depression or something? I can't believe some of the negativity on this blog. I have lived in the province for my entire life, and believe me, I remember my early days when the province was at its peak. Although those days are over, there is no reason to believe that it's impossible to make Montreal great again. I'm counting on demographic changes. There's enough immigration to Quebec, and enough Anglophones moving back to Quebec that in 20 years, give or take, the Anglo/Allo minority will be large and vocal enough to encourage an abolition of Bill 101. I highly doubt the PQ will ever be re-elected, and even if it does, the referenda they hold with once again have a clear response of "Non". Although there has been a great decline, I am seeing improvements. Slow, gradual, improvements. That's all I need to convince myself to stay here.

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    1. Goody-goddy gumdrops for you! My father-in-law still thinks of Quebec as the be-all and end-all of life, but he was born circa 1934. He had the best of all worlds, too young to remember the worst of the depression, too young to be drafted for war, opportunities galore in the world of work, watching Leave it to Beaver and Andy Griffith and the fairytale life people lived compared to today, being able to afford a new car every five years on a modest salary, a local vacation every year, gas at 5¢ a litre, the 10¢ smoked meat sandwich (that came with the pickle spear), etc. etc. etc.

      Furthermore, he didn't even NEED French for a job. Sorry, Mr. T., but the Leave it to Beaver days are long gone, Andy Griffith died yesterday and the average Canadian is up to his yinyangs in debt and still not enjoying the stardard of living of days gone by.

      The nunber of returning Anglophones is but a faucet's drip, and the infrastructure will cost TRILLIONS to repair; trillions Quebec doesn't now nor ever will have. Give my best to the Beave!

      Delete
    2. Pour moi, je suis d'accord avec vous, Truchémar. Le Québec a des problemes, meme des grands problemes, aujourd'hui, mais quel endroit peut dire qu'il n'a pas des problemes? Aucun endroit peut rester le meme pour toujours; le Québec changera en temps.

      Je suis aussi d'accord que presque tout le monde ici est déprimé... mais en revanche, il faut dire que bien que j'aime le français, bien que je voudrais vivre en français, je n'ai pas aimé habiter au Québec. Probablement mon impression de la province était celle d'avant des années soixantes et je suis décu et... déprimé. Aujourd'hui quand je revient pour visiter, je suis heureux, mais pas assez pour m'installer encore, au moins pour toujours.

      Delete
  21. Quebec is f'ked by their own volition. Language laws etc. sanctioned by the peoople who elect the government. Just sayin.

    Canada would be much better without the totally negative influence of the Quebec and the Quebecois.

    How much money will the ROC put into the money pit of corruption and bigotry , before they finally wake up.

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  22. This is why we can't have nice things.

    Either way, the seppies don't want schools, they want unions.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Truchrémar: Here here! One day Québéc will be a great and wonderful country, just like Zimbabwe, North Korea, Sudan or Congo. Those are great countries, you just have to look at the bright side. Slow, gradual, improvements.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Mr racistauga wrote:

    "t's not as if the bastards are going to go to war against the RoC, just like WWII. They called it "Britain's War". No, it was Hitler's war, and there were plenty of Nazi sympathizers in Quebec, starting with PM #15, and you can guess who THAT was! On top of that, it was FRANCE that was occupied by the Nazis, not Britain. Did Quebec come to France's defense? Degaulle led the resistance movement, and that sonofabitch sticks his big protruding beak into Canada's business, encouraging Quebec to separate. He seemed to have forgotten how Quebec hid behind conscription when he could have used reinforcements! It was mostly English speakers who invaded Normandy on D-Day. Degaulle the Dickhead!"

    Ok. enough is enough. Usually i dont pay attention to your extreme racism and LIES. But here you're going too far.

    First of all, there were 180 000 french-canadians from all provinces in the military (volunteers or conscript) during world war 2. And around 90 000 québec francophones served overseas as VOLUNTEERS. They formed around 20% of the canadian military volunter force oversea.

    http://jailamemoirequitourne.historiatv.com/blogue/blogue/25494/la-conscription

    And you have to remember: most of them served in the canadian army since there was widespread discrimination agaisnt francophones in those days, The air force and navy were Anglo bastion. Those are facts, even conservative military historian Jack Granastein agree with this.

    WW1 was seen as britain's war, but during WW2 its was different. Most québécois agreed that Nazism was a threat. The fact that Canada was at war was supported. Yes there was widespread opposition to conscription for OVERSEAS service, but the majority of people in quebec were ok with conscription for INTERNAL service and industrial work and to send VOLUNTEERS to fight overseas.

    Granted, french-canada was not as gung-ho to go to war as english canada was. But you anglo-racists never mention that the fact that french-canadians were treated as second-class citizens in the military played a huge factor.

    Also, Quebec industrial and agricultural workforce provided essential stuffs and food to the canadian military and to our allies.

    The reality is, we did our part in that war. As simple as that. And no one of us ever entered in direct collaboration in tha Nazis. Prove me wrong.

    Frankly, im quite tired of you anglo-racist who spit on the memories of all those québécois who fought during ww22.

    And dont forget: the only canadian soldier who ever won TWO DMC (distinguished conduct medal) was a québécois, Léo Major, later he was known for his separatist sympathies.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Major

    To be followed...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Merci de commenter.

      Je peux juste ajouter ce que j'ai lû dans les mémoires de Trudeau; il explique que

      "If you were a French Canadian in Montreal in the early 1940's, you did not automatically believe that this was a just war. We still knew nothing of the Holocaust and we tended to think of this war as a settling of scores among the superpowers. And then, of course, there was the conscription issue."

      Ce n'est, bien sûr, que son opinion. Comme tu dis, il y avait peut-être un manque d'enthousiasme pour la guerre et certaines tendances anti-sémite, mais personne n'a été arrêté pour avoir directement sympathizé ou collaboré avec les Nazis.

      Delete
    2. Rather than fight in France or farm in Saskatchewan, Trudeau chose to ride around the Jewish suburbs of Montreal dressed as a German soldier during the war.

      http://www.freealberta.com/trudeau.html

      Delete
    3. Anonymous,

      Thank you for your comment.

      You wrote : "the only canadian soldier who ever won TWO DMC (distinguished conduct medal) was a québécois [...]"

      And also, on D-Day, june 1944, only one unit met all its objectives and progressed further into the land than any other units on the front : le Régiment de la Chaudière, a regiment of those "bastards"(dixit Mr Sauga).

      Mr Sauga,

      Québec 15th primer was a nazi sympatizer? Who is it? Give us some more hints. Is he the one who said, about jewish refugees, that "none is too many"? Is he the one who "refused to allow entry for the 900 Jewish refugees aboard the passenger ship MS St. Louis."? Is he the one who wrote, in his journal, that "Hitler, him –- the peasant -– will rank some day with Joan of Arc among the deliverers of his people."?

      Delete
    4. Anonymous - that site is full of shaky argumentation. I should have stopped reading when he likened the politically-motivated kidnappings of the FLQ to run-of-the-mill kidnappings that occur every year, but I continued until he opened trade relations with China (something that, nowadays, is considered a right-wing thing to do)

      It will also take me more than a "as reported by Mordecai Ritchler" to substantiate such a big claim.

      Delete
    5. @ Anonymous at 4:45 AM,

      No one has said that there weren't any French-Canadians who fought in the world wars. However, significant numbers of them avoided military service in Quebec. Some fled to the countryside.

      I own a cottage near a small Quebecois town in the Outaouais region of Quebec. There is a wilderness lake nearby with caves along a steep, heavily forested shoreline. A Francophone acquaintance informed me that men from the area hid in those caves during both World War I & II.

      Delete
  25. Now Mr racistauga, its time to attack your hypocrite attitude:

    You bash quebec in saying (wrongly) that we collaborated with nazis when France was under occupation. Therefore your implies that not only we were a bunch of Nazi-loving cowards, but also a bunch of baaaad french peoples who would not help their cousins.

    Well, not only it is untrue, as demonstrated in my previous post, but you seems to "forget" that when the Nazis were persecuting Jews in Europe, the Jews in Israel were bombing the British soldiers in the back with the Irgun and the Haganah.

    The Stern gang went even more further. They tried to enter in collaboration with the nazis:

    "Late in 1940, Lehi representative Naftali Lubenchik went to Beirut to meet German official Werner Otto von Hentig (who also was involved with the Haavara or Transfer Agreement, which had been transferring German Jews and their funds to Palestine since 1933). Lubenchik told von Hentig that Lehi had not yet revealed its full power and that they were capable of organizing a whole range of anti-British operations.

    On the assumption that the destruction of Britain was the Germans' top objective, the organization offered cooperation in the following terms. Lehi would support sabotage and espionage operations in the Middle East and in eastern Europe anywhere where they had cells. Germany would recognize an independent Jewish state in Palestine/Eretz Israel, and all Jews leaving their homes in Europe, by their own will or because of government injunctions, could enter Palestine with no restriction of numbers. Stern also proposed to recruit some 40,000 Jews from occupied Europe to invade Palestine with German support to oust the British.[citation needed]

    On 11 January 1941, Vice Admiral Ralf von der Marwitz, the German Naval attaché in Turkey, filed a report (the "Ankara document") conveying an offer by Lehi to "actively take part in the war on Germany's side" in return for German support for "the establishment of the historic Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis, bound by a treaty with the German Reich."[46][47]
    "
    -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stern_gang

    And their goal was was to establish a jewish state based on nationalist and totalitarian principles. Sympathic isn'it ?

    Yitzhak Shamir, the ex israeli prime minister who died this week was a member of this organisation. And today these freedom fighters are honored with an official honorific ribbon made for them



    And while that was going on, 90 000 québécois were fighting on the western front, helping liberating Europe and freeing the jews from the genocidal Nazi germany.

    And yet, O hypocrite one, you dare to insult to insult our contribution to ww2.

    So now, punk, dont be a bitch and come to face those facts.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Il faut comprendre que M.Sauga est un homme brisé et malheureux qui a été rejeté par les Québécois.De plus,être obligé de "vivre" en ontario ne doit pas être facile au quotidien et celà même si les rues et les trottoires sont bien entretenus.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. et toi, je dirais que tu es rejeté par tout le monde, vue que tu passe tes journées entière isolé dans ta p'tite demeure de trou a rats et qui passe son temps a cracher ses frustrations venimeuses sur les immigrants, les anglos et les "traitres"...tu penses que s'est eux qui sont responsable pour ton sorts...seul toi est responsable...vieux ta d'marde fini qui pourris sur l'aide sociale...tes jours sont comptés et quand tu seras six pieds sous terre, tout le monde t'oublieras, tout comme si tu n'avais jamais existé...

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    3. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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    4. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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    5. Effectivement, S.R. Je n'y crois pas.

      Delete
    6. et si t'arretais de dire des commentaire caves et bidons, peut-qu'ils ne seraient pas censurée...sans dessins

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    7. Je crois simplement que l'éditeur de ce blogue a les nerfs à vif.

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    9. Pas du tout. Soit assuré que c'est réellement parce que tu es cave et sans dessin, n'ayant rien d'intelligent à contribuer.

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  27. La France a besoin d'une loi 101, croit un linguiste de renom

    http://www.lapresse.ca/international/europe/201207/04/01-4540732-la-france-a-besoin-dune-loi-101-croit-un-linguiste-de-renom.php

    ReplyDelete
  28. Quebec separation would be the best thing for Canada.

    Suis pas d'accord; la meuilleure chose pour le Canada serait de devient plus-ou-moins bilingue, et je sais parfaitement bien qu'il y a BEAUCOUP d'anglo-canadiens qui voudraient devenir bilingue, qui regrettent bien qu'ils ne peuvent pas faire une bonne conversation en français. Tu le sais aussi, que ces nombres des anglos sont impressionnant.

    Je vien de lire hier d'une mere a la colombie-britannique qui a fait le camping une nuit entiere pour avoir une chance a procurer une education en français pour son fils, parce qu'il y avait seulement 13 étudiants acceptés.

    Je crois que je comprends ce que tu veux dire: que sans le Québec, le Canada pourrais se concentrer sur les chose plus importantes que satisfaisant les séparatistes, qui ne peuvent jamais satisfaits (même dans un Québec indépendant).

    Mais la meilleure chose? Je ne dis pas qu'elle sera "la pire chose", la séparation, mais bien sûr pas la meilleure chose. (D'ailleurs, je crois que le Canada est bien plus capable d'aider la langue française survivre au prochain siècle que le Québec seul.)

    ReplyDelete
  29. La France a besoin d'une loi 101, croit un linguiste de renom

    Le français a perdu de son attrait pour la plupart de monde.
    Je voudrais qu'il soit sauvé, bien sûr, mais les lois ne sont pas convenables pour la tache.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Le français a perdu de son attrait pour la plupart de monde.
      Je voudrais qu'il soit sauvé, bien sûr, mais les lois ne sont pas convenables pour la tache."

      Well mon ami, you have struck the heart of the matter why English Kebec are ticked off.

      Soooo, you need laws to save your (french) language? Because it is not attractive to speak?

      And JBG can you answer this: why are you not happy preserving your own language, speaking it yourself and passing on your culture to your children etc. Why force other people to speak a language when it is not even appealing to them? Why don't the french preserve it themselves? Why force the English to speak it for your sake?

      Let me tell you forcing people to speak french does not work. Wait until the rest of canada speaks Chinese and no English. Will Canada pass laws forcing to speak english? No, because the only people to blame are the English for not PRESERVING THEIR OWN by having babies. French quebec has not done this. Rather they have relied on Francopholie immigrants to do so. But NOTE, the members of the Francophile are colonies themselves and they have the same resentfulness towards French as the English!

      Please tell me why I should be forced to follow laws that force me to speak french of a dying demographic? I would loooovvvveee to know. Please do.

      Delete
    2. Hahaha Jean le Baptiste, je suis d'accord avec vous. J'ai dit que les lois ne sont pas convenables pour la tache

      Peut-être tu m'aurais compris si j'ai dit que les lois ne peuvent pas sauver une langue.?

      Peut-etre tu pensais que j'étais quelqu'un d'autre?

      Je suis curieux en savoir.

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  30. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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    1. Vous voyez, aucune subtance dans votre reponse.

      (Note the absence of accents in attempt to dilute the quality of French)

      Delete
    2. J'aurais pu écrire ma pensée en 12 paragraphes mais j'ai su,avec le temps, développer un certain esprit de synthèse depuis que je fréquente ce blogue.Le mot intelligence vient de la faculté de savoir lire entre les lignes.

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    3. French is known as the language of diplomacy because of the many ways one can say something delicately.

      Well you, Anonymous, have used alot of words to say absolutely nothing!

      Delete
  31. (Note the absence of accents in attempt to dilute the quality of French)

    L'absence d'accent n'est rien comparativement à ce à quoi il ressemble lorsque vous tentez de le parler.

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    1. À quoi il ressemble exactement?

      (Still no substance)

      (hehe, I love this blog)

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    2. "À quoi il ressemble exactement?"

      À quoi on peut s'attendre provenant d'un méchant trou du cul? Croyez moi parfois c'est très substantiel...J'adore aussi ce blogue.

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    3. Know what`s nasty? Having your family members cursed at 30 years ago as "maudit anglos" and denying them jobs because they where not Kebecers.

      hehe funny now these family members are now the bosses and giving the french jobs.

      Delete
    4. Après on nous dira que les immigrés n'ont aucune chance au Québec.

      Delete
  32. Jean-François Lisée sera candidat dans Rosemont

    http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/politique-quebecoise/201207/05/01-4541159-jean-francois-lisee-sera-candidat-dans-rosemont.php

    Oui monsieur!J'aime ça!

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    1. Too many italian english in Rosemont, he has zerrroo chance.

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  33. Many people who post sensationalist stories about how they were prosecuted about Bill 101 etc.. are completely missing the picture. Bill 101, and the Quite Revolution in general, was a direct assault against English speaking economic hegemony in Montreal (and yes, there was such an hegemony which is admitted by virtually every single historian. As the state expanded, more and more francophones got govt jobs and were able to complete with the English speaking businesses. Around the 60s, companies were already starting to move their head offices to TO and so this obviously filled a void for francophones to fill in. As francophones began to use their numbers to counter this reality, it's normal that the English speaking business elite eventually dwindled and would have no effect in affecting legislation.

    The only draconian aspect of Bill 22 in my opinion was the English testing required to attend English schools. I see nothing wrong with establishing French as Quebec's official language. It's the language spoken by the majority, so why shouldn't it be? The majority in Ontario speak English, therefore that's the official language. The majority in Nova Scotia speak English, therefore that's the official language. People must remember that Quebec really had no official languages prior to 1974, but only de facto ones. The main objective of subsequent language legislation was to essentially transform Quebec to a majoritarian democracy rather than a consociational one. I agree that the English community has had many difficulties since then such as exodus, declining enrollment in schools, and limited immigration from English speaking countries. As the community shrinks, so do its institutions. We must take charge of our community and make sure that we survive and thrive in a 21st century Quebec.

    My main motive in writing this response is to respond to all those compare Quebec to a modern day Nazi Germany and such. I can understand why many anglophones view themselves as an oppressed minority, but it is my personal belief that they feel this way because they refuse to accept the fact that Quebec is a majoritarian democracy, not a consociational one. Francophones no longer view the anglophones as the majority in Canada, but as a minority in Quebec. Once anglophones stop viewing Quebec as consociational, maybe people will be more rational in describing our situation in Quebec.

    Lastly, for anyone interested on the topic from both sides of the issue, I recommend the following books:

    "The Reconquest of Montreal" by David Levine and "Community Besieged" by Garth Stevenson.

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    1. The Reconquest of Montreal is the most interesting and the most fascinating book that I have read on the subject.

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    2. The problem is that you have had to read about it rather than having lived through it. You did not personally know some of the main actors as I have. You have no idea what they were really like on a personal level.

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    3. John, I understand that it must have been extremely difficult for the individual players involved, but it always happens when there's a major shift in the political landscape. Anglophones back in the day could have never imagined that Quebec would someday become a majoritarian democracy, meaning that francophones, being the majority in numbers, would become the principle actors in the decision making process. People have to realize that things will never be the way they were in the pre-Confederation days, or even before the Quite Revolution, when people could have lived in Montreal and its outlying areas while ignoring the francophone majority that surrounded them. Many people left either because their company had moved or because they no longer felt they could live as they did prior.

      The changes in Quebec society has forced anglophones to use all their resources and create parties and interest groups that speak in their interests, at both levels of government. This is how many minorities around the globe fight for their rights and I don't see why English Quebeckers should be any different in this regard. Alliance Quebec, Equality Party etc... could have succeeded if they weren't single issue parties. If people start demanding for pre-Quite Revolution consociational agreements, your cause is already lost. Th focus must be on how to ensure community survival in a majoritarian democracy and in a society that's determined to preserve the predominance of its language.

      As for people's personal experiences, it's normal for anglophones to want to live in a more "English" place and vice versa, especially given Quebec's ambition to become assert its French character. I, for one, am undecided as to whether I should leave or stay due to linguistic barriers. However, I understand why francophones think they way they do and I don't hold it against them.

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    4. You have misunderstood my point. II was referring to the political actors of the time. Like all politicians there was a difference between their public and private personas. Some of them said the exact opposite privately than what they said publicly. In that sense, reading a book rather than knowing these people personally, including having gone to school with them, means that you are deceived about them.

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  34. Steven,

    Cool post; could you please explain more about majoritarian democracy versus a consociational one?

    John Krug,

    "You have no idea what they were really like on a personal level."
    - Yet this is exactly what francophones say about anglophone abuse. What is the difference, from your eyes?

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    1. JBG, a majoritarian democracy is a democracy in which rule is based on the majority rule of any given society. It's the most common form of democracy in the world, although it can lead to "tyranny of the majority" and oppress minorities. In a consociational democracy, communities basically establish rules that pertain to their communities only and are generally autonomous and independent of another. For instance, francophones and anglophones in Quebec before 1960 made rules that applied only to their respective communities and neither community influenced each other's behaviors. The two communities were virtually segregated from one another and someone could have lived in Montreal, immersed within the anglophones and completely ignore the francophone majority that surrounded them.

      I hope this answers your question, JBG.

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    2. Yes, it does.

      In a consociational democracy, communities basically establish rules that pertain to their communities only and are generally autonomous and independent of another.

      Are Mennonite communities an example of consociational democracy? (No taxes, no conscription, generally not in public health care)

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    3. JBG, this Wikipedia page can explain it in greater detail than I can
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consociational_democracy

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  35. @ Steven,

    "The majority in Ontario speak English, therefore that's the official language."

    Ontario is de facto bilingual, despite the fact that Francophones comprise less than 4% of the population. Francophones receive protection from the French Language Services Act. There is no such legislation protecting Anglophone rights in Quebec.

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    1. Yet, the English services in Quebec are leagues ahead of the French services in Ontario...

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    2. And to be "De Facto" bilingual, Ontario would have to guarantee services in both languages. It does not. It specifies a few zones in which some French services in health and education are available. There is miles of differences between the two.

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    3. You're wrong, Anon 3:34

      Ontario is not bilingual in any sense of the word. English is the only official language and French is only required in 27 designated areas. In Quebec, there are 72 bilingual municipalities that offer bilingual services and 91 that do so even though they're not designated under 29.1 of Bill 101. These bilingual statuses cannot be revoked unless the municipalities want it, which has never happened. In this regard, Quebec is also de facto bilingual in legal terms.

      Although it must be stressed that the English hospitals in Quebec were created through community efforts, not through the generosity of the state.

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    4. "Ontario is not bilingual in any sense of the word."

      Really? I live in eastern Ontario and all of the road signs are bilingual here. There are hardly any bilingual road signs in Quebec.

      The City of Ottawa is also officially bilingual. This isn't the case in Gatineau across the Ottawa river, despite the fact that it is also a part of the National Capital Region.

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    5. The NCR, which includes Gatineau, is bilingual at the federal level. The City of Ottawa has recently decided to become a bilingual city but they had no federal obligation to do so. English services ARE usually available in the Outouais region. I do agree that Gatineau should become a bilingual city, though.

      Many parts of eastern Ontario do have bilingual communities, but there's not much bilingualism south of northeastern Ontario, except for road signs, which Quebec should do with their road signs.

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  36. "For young francophone doctors, its more difficult to leave, most are a prisoner of culture and language.
    Most doctors on the francophone side take the fast-tracked, pre-med cegep route to medical school, where English as a second language is largely ignored. For them, moving out of Quebec is not an option and so like teachers and other unilingual professionals, they are forced to accept an incredibly steep 'home team discount' "

    First off, I must start off by saying that you got many things wrong. Pre-med is definitely not restricted to the french speaking community; In fact there are several CEGEPs (Marianopolis, Dawson, Champlain, name them) across the province that offer health science programs (which can obviously give you a change of being admitted into Pre-Med). Not only are students from anglo CEGEPS allowed to apply, but they also represent a large demographic in the pre-med program in McGill.

    Second of all, I find it important to tell you that your generalizations about francophone medical students are aberrant. You do have a point when saying that English-as-a-second-language classes in francophone CEGEPS is not as outstanding as it could be. However, many francophone students voluntarily decide to apply to McGill GIVEN that they want to pursue their education in a teaching language different from theirs. You know what, I feel like I should tell you something: I am a proud francophone, and I study Medicine in McGill. Not because it was my only option, but because I found that learning to communicate in English was essential in life. I knew that the standard English classes that I had taken throughout my education in francophone institutions would not be sufficient to allow optimal/efficient communication with my confrères/patients once I got to the hospital.
    Despite having struggled at first, never have I regretted choosing to go to McGill. Studying in English is the BEST way to broaden your horizons, as you get to meet individuals from so many different backgrounds and cultures. The English language becomes a way for you to interact with individuals from all around the world. It becomes a communication tool, and, honestly, you start cherishing it as it gives you the opportunity to learn so much about so many different things.

    Therefore, when you say that "For them, moving out of Quebec is not an option and so like teachers and other unilingual professionals, they are forced to accept an incredibly steep 'home team discount'", you couldn't be more wrong. By deciding to open the door to francophone students, McGill has actually opened the door for more Quebecers to leave the province, as it allows "unilingual" francophone students to bilingual/Fluent-English-speaking professionals. However, despite the fact that the "door has been opened", it doesn't mean that those professionals are going to rush through the door.

    Quebecers from a francophone background might decide, despite having studied in an Anglophone institution, that they want to serve their community and stay in Quebec. Culture is a big part of the "French-Canadian" pride, and therefore some individuals prefer making the choice of staying here rather than moving to the US or to other Canadian provinces.
    Moving IS an option. However, deciding to move is a CHOICE that not everyone decides to make.

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  37. I am french canadian and I am a M.Sc. student at McGill. You are, especially the allophones endorsing this article, a bunch of hypocrites. So it's ok for the government to pass laws helping ethnic minorities to get into medical school (and McGill in general) but not ok for McGill to help francophones get in? Or it's ok to use the taxpayers money to pay for your medical education but not serve them afterwards? Francophone physicians are more likely to stay here and serve the province; that's a very effective way to slow down the doctors' exodus.

    Btw, those rankings are strongly based on the rejection rate and student averages. What about published medical research? That should have more weight.

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    1. I take issue with the phrase "serve the province," Doctors do not get their degrees to become vassals to a political jurisdiction. One hopes they study medicine to help the sick and injured, whoever and wherever they are; after years of effort and study, I do not begrudge a doctor who wants to practise in a region where he/she can make a comfortable living -- and where they see a viable future for their family. I'm willing to bet that most English-speaking medical graduates in Quebec feel the same as most anglophone accounting grads or technical school grads: They're not wanted here because they're anglophones, so might as well move out of Quebec and to a place where they're not disrespected.

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