Friday, May 25, 2012

French versus English Volume 55

Harper government launches consultations on  Canada's linguistic duality

"On May 22, the Honourable James Moore, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages, launched, in Moncton, the first in a series of Government of Canada pan-Canadian consultations on official languages.
“Canada’s two official languages are an integral part of Canadian history and identity. The Government’s commitment to official languages has been recognized internationally. In 2009, the Prime Minister was honoured with the highest international award of merit for support to the Francophonie. The Government’s five-year “Roadmap for Canada’s Linguistic Duality 2008-2013” represents the most comprehensive investment in Canada’s official languages in Canada’s history. Economic Action Plan 2012 will continue support for official languages by maintaining funding to protect, celebrate and enhance Canada’s linguistic duality.”  Read the rest of the story
You can take part in the consultative process by filling out this government survey.
(Thanks for the story, YANNICK

Senior residence forced to adopt French only signs

"English-speaking residents at a Motreal West Island seniors' home are angry and frustrated after a crackdown by the language police meant they could no longer post bilingual signs on a bulletin board.....
The Maywood residence in Pointe-Claire became completely French nine months ago.
"You missed out on activities. You missed out on some information," said tenant Eileen Yeates, who has lived at the residence for six years.
Yeates said she feels that since she pays the same rate as her French-speaking friends in the building, she should receive the same treatment.
The OQLF disagrees. 
In Quebec, all official documents posted by an administration of a residence must be in French only – unlike in stores, where English is permitted, so long as it is half the size of the French text. Read the rest of the story

English ueber alles


"....last week one of the most respected universities in Italy, the Politecnico di Milano, announced that from 2014 all of its courses would be taught in English.
 
There was a predictable wave of outrage all across the country, but the university’s rector, Giovanni Azzoni, simply replied: “We strongly believe our classes should be international classes, and the only way to have international classes is to use the English language. Universities are in a more competitive world. If you want to stay with the other global universities, you have no other choice.”
The university is not doing this to attract foreign students. It is doing it mainly for its own students who speak Italian as a first language, but must make their living in a global economy where the players come from everywhere—and they all speak English as a lingua franca

Many other European universities, especially in Germany, the Low Countries, and Scandinavia, have taken the same decision, and the phenomenon is now spreading to Asia. ..... Read the rest of the story

Small town caves to language pressure

The town of Magog has abandoned bilingual communications with  its citizens in order to comply with the provisions of the Charter of the French language.  
Henceforth, all documentation will  be offered in French only with English language indications that the information will be available in English, upon specific request.
 
This change follows a complaint by the Mouvement estrien pour le français.

 The lobby group deplored the bilingual policy as "promotion of monolingual English.
 The group complained over the bilingualism of,  for example, electricity bills, the renewal of registrations of pets and the warnings of temporary interruption of the supply of running water. 
 "It was a Charter violation, since Magog is not recognized as a bilingual municipality. According to the complaint, "Any notice to the public must be in French only,"
The Mouvement estrien pour le français applauded the City of Magog and congratulated elected officials for their courage and consistency. 
The decision to comply by the City  had repercussions in Quebec City, where the PQ member for Drummond, Yves-François Blanchet, publicly thanked the elected Magogois  and the Mouvement estrien pour le français in front of the deputies of the National Assembly. Mayor of Magog, Vicki May Hamm admited to a mild discomfort in this situation because of her English roots.  
"Our communications were written in both languages ​​in good faith. However, we will comply and we will pass the information on request, in English,"Citizens have already expressed their disappointment. The city received a wave of complaints about the manual on composting, recently distributed to the public exclusively in French. "We have no choice, we must follow the law," says Ms. Hamm. Read the story in French


 In a related story about a town ordered to stop communicating in English as a matter of course, citizens of Chateauguay have started a petition demanding that English be respected.
"According to Mayor Simon, what a city can not do "is unclear." At the last City Council meeting of Châteauguay, there was talk of a statement of the OQLF indicating that cities could use French with another language in their communication.

The text dating from 1999 no longer reflects the "government guidelines" suggested Mayor Simon, based on information obtained from the OQLF.

Questioned about this, the press officer of Mr. Moreau said that in 2000 the former Minister of Culture of the PQ Louise Beaudoin had "amended the Charter of the French language so that cities could claim
bilingual status having 50% or more native speakers of English in contrast to what was stated before...." LINK{Fr}

An English globe

"Seven in ten workers (67%) of those who interact with people in other countries say English is the language they most often use to communicate with them. Those with a high level of household income (74%) and education (73%) are most likely to say English. Gender and age seem to have no statistical bearing on the dominant language used for foreign business.
North America (76%) has the highest proportion of employees reporting the main language they use to communicate with people from other countries is English, followed by Asia-Pacific (72%), the Middle East and Africa (67%), Europe (63%) and Latin America (33%).
In 22 of 26 countries surveyed, English is the dominant language.....
Spanish ranks as a distant second plane, with 5% saying it is the language they most commonly use to communicate with people from abroad. After Spanish are Mandarin (4%) and French (3%). Two percent of those surveyed say each of: German, Arabic, Hindi, Italian and Russian.
" Read the rest of the story

More SSJB witch-hunting

After successfully harassing small merchants in NDG and Cote-de-Neiges districts in Montreal, the SSJB is once again on the warpath, this time in St. Laurent.

The merry clan of Inspector Clouseaus ran rampant in the multiethnic district, turning up an amazing 333 infractions.

If those infractions are anything like the example cited in the story in  Nouvelles St. Laurent News 
they aren't doing a very good job;


The sign is 100% in compliance with the law and 100% in compliance with the fictitious rule that demands French descriptors ("L'Entreprise Commercial") for English sounding trademarks.
The  blurb on the bottom ("Quality in Food since 1974) is also in compliance, with the French version significantly larger than the English.

Shame on the SSJB and shame on the reporter Valerie R. Carbonneau for wrongly outing a company which has satisfied every idiotic OQLF sign demand.

I sent in a polite comment under the story pointing out the error, which of course was never printed. 
If I owned the company I'd sue the reporter and the newspaper.

Student leader evicted for non payment of rent


Deadbeat Student leader 'not credible'
"The Régie du logement (Housing Authority) has ordered the eviction of Gabriel Nadeau-Dubois from his apartment because he owes more than $1,900 in back  rent.

In a decision issued
on May 16, the Administrative Judge-Martial Robin Guay has terminated the lease of the CLASSE
spokesman and his roommate and sentenced them to pay the sum of $1,900, as compensation for not having paid the rent for March and April.

Gabriel
Nadeau-Dubois claimed to have indeed paid the two months rent in cash by putting it in the mailbox of owner Davide Francisco. He submitted two bank statements as evidence, noting two withdrawals totaling $1,000 on March 12, and two other withdrawals, two weeks later, for the payment of April.

Judge
Guay, however, did not believe this version, finding "surprising" that "two educated people didn't understand the high risk they were taking and had not exercised a minimum of prudence by  not requiring the landlord to furnish a receipt.
Mr.
Nadeau-Dubois  replied that he had problems in the past in getting receipts from the owner.

The Tribunal also
criticized the two tenants for having presented "no documentary evidence that supports their claims."

"
Suffice to say that the court did not consider the tenants
credible about the cash payments they said they made to their landlord by leaving an envelope of  $950 in the mail box." Read the story in French

Amir Khadir daughter- a chip off the old block

Tough cookie Yalda Machouf-Khadir, resisting arrest by SQ officer
"It seems that Amir Khadir's daughter is a chip off the old block
She was arrested way back when  for an occupation of Cégep du Vieux-Montréal which resulted in destruction of school property.

She was in court this week in relation to another arrest, this one for taking part in the blockade of the Jacques- Cartier Bridge.

19 year old Yalda Machouf-Khadir must report to police once a week because she  had been arrested previously, when students blocked the Champlain Bridge.  Link
Miss Khadir is the daughter of Quebec solidaire MP Amir Khadir and Nina Machouf, a 9/11 Truther.

Busy little girl....
She has quite the temper, she faced off with a photojournalist who was taking her picture in the courthouse hall. The reporter received a punch in the camera after Khadir demanded that she not be photographed, because she had 'rights.'

In order to avoid being photographed Miss Khadir spread a large kerchief around her head, revealing a desperate need for a Lady Bic.


Of course Papa Khadir is fully supportive, telling reporters that he was in court to support his daughter, not to comment on her situation.

I bet her Communist grandpa was particularly proud as well....





Here's a few interesting tidbits to round out the week.....


A reader sent this exchange on a Facebook group "Ventee de Garage Virtuelle - Chateauguay/Mercier - Online Garage."

For those with no French, Madame LaFrance complains that the poster had the nerve to post in English, even though the group is mostly English.
Well Done, Julie!!! You are elected LANGUAGE IDIOT OF THE WEEK.
(Thanks for the story, MORTON)



Who can identify this Photoshop disaster on the front page of Le Journal de Montreal?
I thought newspapers weren't supposed to modify news photos... Hmmm...



 Who can identify this boner in Le Journal de Montreal? 





How strange is Quebec? Infomercial on French TV.... for an English keyboard?
And where is the OQLF when you need them? 





This is part of the strong mandate students received to strike!
(84 students voted out of 4,227)

Here's an interesting version of French GLOBISH or perhaps simplified French . I like the advice on the bottom of the page informing the reader that he or she is an idiot.


What genius organization put out this crap?
Answer: The City of Montreal;
(Thanks for the story, BLEGAS )

Extra credit reading

Estimating crowd sizes in demonstrations is more of an art than a skill. 
You'll recall that the demonstration in front of the Bell Centre against a unilingual anglophone coach was estimated variously between 150 and 500. With that margin of error it isn't surprising that the number of participants at large demonstrations varies widely.
Here is the first definitive attempt to get the numbers right.
Read Montreal blogger Steve Fagay's (Fagstein);
 Tens of thousands” – the battle over protest turnout numbers
 
*************
*************
The National Post asked readers this question; Does Quebec have a future in Canada?
"In 75 words or fewer, let us know what lies ahead for Quebec."
 (Thanks for the story, LORDDORCHESTER )

*************

I only include this story because the French press is peddling the fiction that the enormous, thirty million dollar mansion is for sale (furniture and all) because it 'doesn't suit' the enlarged  Dion/Angelil family.
("Il aurait fallu faire beaucoup de rénovations pour l’adapter à notre famille. Donc nous avons décidé de la mettre en vente.- René Angelil")
The family by selling the mansion, is admitting the truth, that their permanent home is in Florida.
For the Quebec press, it's a hard pill to swallow.

Thought of the week
It's interesting to hear and read all the comments (even on this blog)  from those claiming that an 'unjust' law like Bill 78 should not be obeyed because it is immoral.
The same people who tell us to obey Bill 101 because it is the law.....

146 comments:

  1. Editor,

    Questionnée à ce sujet, l'attachée de presse de M. Moreau a indiqué qu'en 2000 l'ancienne ministre de la Culture du PQ Louise Beaudoin avait «fait amender la Charte de la langue française pour que les villes puissent demander le statut de bilingue à la condition d'avoir 50% et plus de gens de langue maternelle anglaise contrairement à ce qui était indiqué avant, soit 50% et plus de langues autres que le français. C'était donc plus facile d'obtenir le statut. C'est peut-être de cette "orientation" dont vous me faisiez mention.»

    I am no lawyer, but can a cabinet minister ammend the content of an act without having it voted on the floor?

    ReplyDelete
  2. Another one:

    « Nous sommes majoritairement en Floride, René-Charles va à l’école ici. Et bien sûr il y a Vegas à cause des engagements de Céline. Nous y serons une partie de l’été. »

    And in Florida, does the child go to a French-language school?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ne vous inquiétez pas pour Céline et la langue qu'utiliseront ses enfants,je vous suggère de jeter un coup d'oeil sur la situation des écoles anglophones de la région de Montréal.

      Delete
    2. It's always sad when a Canadian artist expatriates itself to the States chasing dollars, whether it's a French-Canadian or an Anglo-Canadian.

      Delete
    3. @yannick

      "It's always sad when a Canadian artist expatriates itself to the States chasing dollars, whether it's a French-Canadian or an Anglo-Canadian."

      Yannick for someone who has mentioned that he worked in so many provinces of Canada, its ironic. Unless you are sad that you had to leave New Brunswick? Celine Dion did the right thing for herself because she became rich and also made a name for herself internationally. Furthermore, she is probably recognized as being of French Canadian descent in the United States (Quebecois is not an identity americans are very familiar with unless that new 60 minutes segment makes it so)

      In the 1800s over 2 million French Canadian Quebecers left to work in the factories of the Northeastern states of the United States. Some of the counties in Maine French is still spoken among their descendents. Even Calixa Lavalee had tried to organize a kind of overseas French Canadian association in towns of the US that had majority and or significant minority of French Canadians.

      Delete
    4. Yes I think it's sad that I had to leave New-Brunswick. I still hope to come back someday, if one of the few jobs in my field open up, but my partner does not share that feeling. To her, the Maritimes are economically decrepit and no one in their right mind would willingly immigrate there. I don't know what to make of it.

      But it's still not as sad as if I had to move to the States or another country, permanently. In the States, someone of my profession can make twice as much money as in Canada, and four times as much money as in Quebec. On the other hand, jobs in Quebec are easier to obtain and more secure because one does not need to compete against Anglo-Canadians or International candidates. Hmm, decisions decisions.

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    5. Yannick,

      I am an immigrant. So I will always applaud those who have the willingness to leave their homeland and their comfort zone behind in search of better life. So if Celine gets much more success in Nevada and in Florida than she does in Quebec, all the best for her. It is Canada's loss, really. But if Quebec / Canada can not give her what she deserves, why stay?

      The problem I have is now that she is American, why when she comes back to Quebec she acts as if Quebec is still the land of milk and honey? Why she acts as if she is the defender of French-Quebec arts, culture and language? Why she shuns everything English here?

      Me, for example. When I go home to my home country, I do not act as if the Western culture is evil, that English (or French) is bad, that my home country is the best in the world. Of course not. If that was the case, why did I leave? I still respect and love the land where I was born, but even there I do not get on my high horse and be self-righteous. After all, the decision to move was mine.

      Delete
  3. "Thought of the week
    It's interesting to hear and read all the comments (even on this blog) from those claiming that an 'unjust' law like Bill 78 should not be obeyed because it is immoral.
    The same people who tell us to obey Bill 101 because it is the law....."

    EXACTLY!!!!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Best Quote from facebook I saw on law 78 goes along the same thread. "Bill 78 is so Draconian, can you believe this? Next thing you know the government will pass laws telling us where we are allowed to send our kids to school, what language we are allowed to speak, what language to do business in.....

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  4. The Liberals cannot even restore law and order, but they can let the OQLF harass the English speaking community!! Not only in Municipal affairs but in Private Senior residents... Gone too far... We should take a page from the student protesters... STOP VOTING FUCKING LIBERAL!!!!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. STOP VOTING FUCKING LIBERAL!!!!!

      Merci :)

      Delete
    2. All the parti's suck!

      Delete
    3. Taz: This is why when I was still just in high school, my mind was made up to leave Quebec once and for all. It took me ten years to finally implement what I set out to do because I wanted to complete my cheap education before leaving. One thing that frustrated me to no end was family and other acquaintances would never STOP VOTING FUCKING LIBERAL!!!!!

      You always had quislings like John Ciaccia, Kathleen Weil, Geoffrey Kelley and others in that party that never went against their master, Premier John James "Goldilocks" Charest. These quislings constantly voted against what their constituents wanted, but with blind obedience, vote the way their master, Premier John James "Goldilocks" Charest told them to do so.

      Q: So what therefore was to be gained VOTING FUCKING LIBERAL?
      A: SWEET FUCK-ALL, that's what!

      Unfortunately, like brain-dead sheep, the stupid English-speaking population simply doesn't STOP VOTING FUCKING LIBERAL!!!!! Except for the election in 1989, the stupid English-speaking population simply doesn't STOP VOTING FUCKING LIBERAL!!!!!

      If the Jews of Germany kept voting for the Nazis, would that have stopped the Nazis from exterminating the Jews and other undesirables to them?

      Although representation of a pro-minority party would likely have been low, it's still MNAs who represent the aspirations of the Anglos and other minorities rather than being represented by these spineless and gonadless quisling yes-men and women blindly obeying their lord and master, Premier John James "Goldilocks" Charest.

      The last Quebec politicians to show they had spines and gonads left this political scam almost ¼ century ago. Their names were Herbert Marx, Richard French and Clifford Lincoln. All three were cabinet ministers, and all three left politics in one day, one fell swoop rather than stab their constituents in their backs à la John Ciaccia.

      The solution: STOP VOTING FUCKING LIBERAL!!!! The Equality Party was a young party that wasn't given a chance to develop by its own supporters, so after one term in office, the brainless sheep minorities didn't STOP VOTING FUCKING LIBERAL and won't STOP VOTING FUCKING LIBERAL! The result: the Quebec of today, and the minorities are being persecuted just as much if not more than under the first PQ government.

      If the minorities keep voting for the party that constantly bites them in the ass, ...well... the minorities get what they deserve.

      Again, a three-part solution:
      (1) STOP VOTING FUCKING LIBERAL
      (2) STOP VOTING FUCKING LIBERAL
      and finally,
      (3) STOP VOTING FUCKING LIBERAL!!!

      Does everybody or anybody get it now?STOP VOTING FUCKING LIBERAL!!!

      Delete
  5. @land of tazmandoo

    Stop voting liberal in quebec means splitting the vote and letting the PQ in once again. As the article states there are so many anti English laws passed by them and the majority of Quebec anglos are to sheepesh to do any defiance.

    On the other hand demographics in the Montreal area are changing rapidly. Maybe by the next census Montreal Island will be clearly non Francophone along with the corridor to the Ontario border.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. with Friends like the Liberals who needs enemies!!!. Let's be honest what could the PQ or CAQ do in terms English rights to make it any worse at this point.... Really??

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  6. I think that what's most people don't understand, what other choice does English Quebec have but to vote Liberal?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Vote CAQ as a protest vote, shake up the liberal vote so that they start taking you seriously. The libs are too comfortable, that's why Corrupt Charest can afford to stay on forever even if his government is shitty. How much damage can one gov of PQ do that they haven't done before?

      Delete
  7. Le français recule dans l'affichage commercial à Montréal

    http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/national/201205/24/01-4528432-le-francais-recule-dans-laffichage-commercial-a-montreal.php

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. the economic well being of the city is threatened by these lunatic protesters and your worried about too much English signs!!! Hello!!! Wake up....

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    2. They would rather suffer in French then prosper in English, and by prosper in English I mean speak French and hear French 97% of the time and see an English sign only in Downtown Montreal. For shame.

      Delete
  8. Un commentaire plutôt intéressant...

    Chuck said...

    @GazooReader, if ''things got better'' for you means having signs in English everywhere...you better stop dreaming...Quebec is still 80-90% French last time I checked and yes there are bilingual signs all over the place and yes we're talking about 8 million people in a continent of 300 million English speakers. I dont think this is ridiculous insecurities. Accept your minority status and you feel much better.
    2:13 PM

    http://coolopolis.blogspot.ca/2012/05/60-minutes-doing-another-report-on.html

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. En même temps, faudrait arrêter de crier au meurtre quand on entend l'anglais sur la rive sud. Les anglais sont minoritaires, oui, mais ils existent.

      Delete
  9. Thank you Editor for your thought of the week. I have been screaming about the double standard with regards to Bills 78 and 101. I think Bill 78 is a crap law and was a huge mistake by the government but maybe they thought they could get away with it because Bill 101 has stood the test of time? Even if the supreme court ruled against Bill 78, could Quebec use the notwithstanding clause to keep it as they did with Bill 101?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Either the notwithstanding (section 33) or limitations (section 1) clause.
      Let's see what happens.

      Delete
  10. An English globe?

    Merci pour l'info,ce blogue est de plus en plus instructif.

    ReplyDelete
  11. "I have been screaming about the double standard with regards to Bills 78 and 101. I think Bill 78..."

    Qu'attendez-vous pour sortir dans la rue?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. N'attendez-pas que les Québécois le fasse pour vous.

      Delete
    2. Les anglo-Québécois sont tout autant Québécois que toi.

      Delete
  12. ­Ontario students to protest in support of Quebec counterparts. I wonder if the english press will be as hostile towards the protests if it's not just froggies doing it?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The media have one mandate regarding Quebec: take any negative story and spin the shit out of it. Reinforcing the push and pull. They know how to tickle the moral outrage towards the province. Analyze the images and listen to the way they speak for TV Radio it's been we are going to have call in tell us what you think not one call is sympathetic. English and french media are both manipulating to make Quebec look fickle and entitled.

      Delete
  13. Catégorie : Phénomène paranormal:

    Comment expliquer que des personnes de 70-80-90 ans ayant vécu dans une province francophone toute le vie soient incapables de lire une note en français?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Qu'est-ce que ça a voir? Le même est vrai au Nouveau-Brunswick, et on va pas se priver de nos services en français pour autant.

      Delete
    2. Beaconsfield the signs are english whaa! take those residents on

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    3. Editor,

      Many Anglos don't give a crap what goes on west of St.Lawrence or in Chicoutimi, just like those who live in Chicoutimi are largely clueless that an autonomous English society exists within Quebec.

      You really did mean east of St-Laurent, did you not?

      Delete
    4. "Comment expliquer que des personnes de 70-80-90 ans ayant vécu dans une province francophone toute le vie soient incapables de lire une note en français?"
      translation.....How can people live their whole in Quebec and not speak any French?

      The same way francophones can live their whole life in a country which is largely English and in a world where the lingua franca is English as well and not speak a word.

      It's called 'Choice.'
      I'll say this as kindly as I can.
      There are places in western Montreal where French is hardly heard at all. You can live there quite nicely and never interact in French.
      Many Anglos don't give a crap what goes on east of St.Lawrence or in Chicoutimi, just like those who live in Chicoutimi are largely clueless that an autonomous English society exists within Quebec.

      Delete
    5. Editor, no one lives in Canada without knowing English anymore. Of all my family, only my mother speaks no english and she is learning very quickly since her divorce.

      Children are brought up in our francophone school system where the quality of education of english is almost as good as the quality of education in french. We read novels like 1984, Brave New World, Lord of the Flies, Shakespeare plays, etc... Comming out of a francophone school guarantees good english skills.

      If only the reverse was true! But as they say, where there is a will, there is a way. In English Canada, there is no will so there is no way.

      Delete
    6. @yannick

      "Editor, no one lives in Canada without knowing English anymore. Of all my family, only my mother speaks no english and she is learning very quickly since her divorce."

      Actually their 100s of thousands of people (mostly immigrants in the larger cities, that have managed to live without either English or French. There are even Amish to this day that live without most modern conveniences that we consider basic like electricity and modern transport like buses and cars.

      Delete
    7. I'm sorry anon, I should have said "no FRANCOPHONE lives in the ROC without knowing English anymore." Except perhaps first-generation Francophone immigrants, but that's not who I was thinking of when I made that statement.

      There are of course, pockets of immigrants knowing neither English nor French. These are first-generation immigrants, which represent at best 1-2% of the cities where they live. Their children which will attend elementary school will of course learn one or the other, depending on where they live.

      Delete
    8. @yannick

      actually 1-2% is a very low figure. In places like Brampton, Richmond Hill, Markham suburbs of Toronto its probably around 5%. In the older areas of the city of Toronto there are still many european immigrants that have limited English skills as well. Areas that have factories where hard manual labour is more important then communications is one of the sectors where the non english speakers tend to work with other members of their communities. I've seen it in a similar scale of the now shrunken Montreal Textiles industries as well.

      Delete
    9. Perhaps it is 5% locally in suburbs. The point is, that even if they never learn english (or learn it well) their children will spend 12 years of their lives in school and learn it then.

      Delete
  14. Si j'étais un anglo-canadien vivant à Montréal,j'aurais vraiment l'impression d'avoir été abandonné par toutes les organisations politiques.Un orphelin politique,vraiment triste.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If I was a francophone Quebecer living in Montreal, I would have the impression I was abandoned by the federal government, a political orphan, very sad.

      Delete
    2. Heureusement qu'il nous reste le provincial et quelques espoirs avec le NPD mais pour vous,je ne vois malheureusement aucune lumière au bout du tunnel.

      Delete
    3. Rares sont les Anglos qui savent qu'il n'y a aucun avenir pour une communauté anglaise au Québec.

      Delete
    4. Aucun avenir parce que vous le voulez bien. C'est difficile de vendre le Canada français aux anglophones alors que vous continuez à l'assassiner avec des positions aussi intolérantes.

      Delete
    5. "If I was a francophone Quebecer living in Montreal, I would have the impression I was abandoned by the federal government, a political orphan, very sad."

      La différence est que les Québécois n'ont pas voté pour les conservateurs aux dernières élections.Qui abandonne qui?Pour qui les anglos du Québec votent-ils depuis des décennies?

      Delete
    6. @Yannick

      Il y a longtemps que les Québécois n'essaient plus de vendre quoi que se soit en matière culturelle aux canada anglais.Nous mettons nos énergies ailleurs et c'est très bien ainsi.

      Delete
    7. Malheureusement ça fait de vous un énorme boulet pour nous pauvres Francophones hors-Québec, qu'on doit traîner dernière nous à chaque fois qu'on tente de convaincre les anglophones de faire preuve de bonne volonté.

      Delete
    8. "...qu'on tente de convaincre les anglophones de faire preuve de bonne volonté."

      Nous n'avons pas cette mentalité au Québec.

      Delete
    9. Vendre quelque chose au Canada-anglais !? Il faut vraiment ne pas avoir d'ambition ou ne pas être très futé pour faire quoi que ce soit avec cette société tribale, pâle copie d'un autre peuple.

      Delete
    10. "Nous n'avons pas cette mentalité au Québec."

      Je sais. Ça fait de vous le problème, au lieu de la solution.

      "Vendre quelque chose au Canada-anglais !? Il faut vraiment ne pas avoir d'ambition ou ne pas être très futé pour faire quoi que ce soit avec cette société tribale, pâle copie d'un autre peuple."

      Pourtant, mes amis anglophones ont la même opinion du Québec. Des esprits fermés des deux côtés de la cloture, misère.

      Delete
    11. "Malheureusement ça fait de vous un énorme boulet pour nous pauvres Francophones hors-Québec"

      Nous serions heureux de tous vous accueillir les bras ouverts :) 11 ou 12 millions de francophones sous un même toît = Augmentation et concentration de notre poids politique.

      Delete
    12. Êtes-vous sûrs? On voterait fédéraliste ;)

      Delete
    13. Je viens de changer d'idée...

      Delete
  15. Thanks for all your work Editor it reminded me of all the insane conversation's we had after 101 here's one:

    If Alberta leaves the party it takes all of BC except Vancouver/ Whistler she can be her very own country, like a Luxembourg a place all the people from the New land go to buy shoes and live large eating the most awesome asian food.

    Manitoba, Saskatchewan and all the territories above them stick with Alberta they ride like a team.

    Call it all Newfoundland a play on how our government took away the Cod fishing, crippling Newfoundland.

    Newfoundland will require special passports for the two visitors that leave the country of Quebec every year they will get location finders on them so Newfoundland won't be accused of stealing Quebec's Intellectual property.

    Absurd but very possible if you've been impacted negatively by 101

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You're not a maritimer are you?

      I used to fish Cod. Fishermen with a Cod license would bring paying people aboard. We'd fish for Cod with lines, and the fisherman would claim them on his own license. I went 3 times as a child. The first time I caught three cods, and my father and grandfather caught some too. The second time I caught only one, and no one else caught any. The last time, all we brought up were mackerels. Then cod fishing was outlawed.

      Cod fishing wasn't "taken away by our government". Maritimers did it all by themselves by overfishing it. The government ban was a classic case of locking the barn after the horse has fled - the ban should have come years before if there was to be any chance of preserving the fisheries. Even with 15 years of no fishing, the cod population remains at less than a thousandth of what we used to bring in annually in the 80's.

      Delete
    2. @anon 9:50

      Don't get all cocky there was previous oil collapse in the 1980s that ended Alberta prosperity for almost 20 years. The worldwide oil industry is doing its best to over supply the world with oil because it is over 90 dollars a barrel at the moment. Just like in 2009 it can go to under 40 dollars a barrel in a matter of a few weeks.

      Delete
    3. Yannick: I won't touch that with a ten foot pole Newfoundlander's may have a blog where they gripe about joining Canada and how great it made Newfoundlander's economy afterward.

      What I wrote was an absurd scenario, one of many made by people who see how absurd 101 is in an Actual use in any other province.

      Cutting up the country by having the power to remove a province from Canada. After puking out these crazy country plans,

      After all is said and done I think aboriginal's were in Quebec first, I support "First Nation's",

      When Quebec aboriginal's have something to say and do about the matter of: A group of people who are not First leaving Canada, I would be with what the Aboriginal's want 100%.

      So with that said, the notion that Quebec would ever leave Canada in a legal way will never happen.

      like a dog chasing it's tail:

      The french people who want Quebec to stand alone can keep on cherishing the little fantasy of leaving Canada. They use this lie as fuel whenever they have a burst of anger towards English

      Delete
  16. Honourable James Moore: "Canada’s two official languages are an integral part of Canadian history and identity. The Government’s commitment to official languages has been recognized internationally. In 2009, the Prime Minister was honoured with the highest international award of merit for support to the Francophonie. The Government’s five-year “Roadmap for Canada’s Linguistic Duality 2008-2013” represents the most comprehensive investment in Canada’s official languages in Canada’s history. Economic Action Plan 2012 will continue support for official languages by maintaining funding to protect, celebrate and enhance Canada’s linguistic duality."


    Yawn.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Julie Lafrance: "Oui mais on est au Quebec. Si tout le monde parlent en anglais, notre langue francaise risque de disparaitre"


    Yawn.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Replies
    1. A very good point. Merci de partager!

      Delete
    2. What a poorly researched article. It just amazes me nowadays who is allowed to write columns. He's is basically talking out of his ass.

      Who is John Moore? He is not some great political thinker. He is an ex-Montrealer (it says in Wikipedia that he lives in Toronto and Montreal but I no longer see him on Montreal TV, maybe he stays here 2 weeks in the summer) who was a film critic. A film critic! lol

      His article is so easy to refute. He is projecting when he says it's the older generation that is entitled. The boomers worked for what they got.

      "Quebec has had low tuition rates for a half century. That means almost every living adult in the province, having already been afforded a plum goodie, is now wagging his finger at the first generation that will be asked to pay the tab. So who really is entitled here?"

      Well, I'll just let the film critic know that tuition has been frozen for a while now, so tuition is going back to the historic levels of the baby boomers. The student's aren't asked to pay the tab for everyone else's tuition. They are only being asked to pay a fair amount. Meanwhile, some students want free tuition. Yep, who's entitled indeed.

      "Canadians now aged 55 years and older will collect Old Age Security when they hit 65. The rest of us will have to work two more years."

      Yes, I see, and Mr. wise film critic, what is the live expectancy of people of that generation compared to that of this generation? Working 2 more years still actually works out better for the younger generation because they will be collecting benefits longer.

      "The employed could count on a level of job security that allowed them to take on debt to own houses, cottages and cars...It’s almost like Canadians had a “sense of entitlement,” or something."

      Yes, yes Mr. film critic. While it may have been easier to keep a job back then, they still have to work, eh? So, it has nothing to do with entitlement, but more to do with earning what you got. Maybe you should try the same, John Moore, like looking up basic info or at least thinking about what you're writing about.

      "When the economy tanked, it fell to money-starved governments to bail everyone out."

      Do you know where the government got money. Well, it didn't just appear. It actually comes from taxpayers, many of which are baby-boomers.

      You know, people can have their opinions. They should back it up with something, though, especially if they are a paid writer, which this little columnist sadly fails at.

      For something that is a little more researched:

      Jeffrey Simpson: In a province of sacrifice, a few pursue privilege

      It shows exactly the financial shape Quebec is in, debt taxes, etc. "Quebec’s sales tax has gone up by two points. A health tax was imposed to raise $945-million when fully implemented. One cent a litre was added to the price of fuel each year from 2010 to 2013. Business taxes were raised by $800-million." There's more detail in the article.

      Delete
  19. "The Régie du logement (Housing Authority) has ordered the eviction of Gabriel Nadeau-Dubois from his apartment because he owes more than $1,900 in back rent. "

    The lengths some will go to to dig up dirt. The Régie du logement is after all a government agency. Is it the only one that Charest ordered to start digging? Probably not.

    If 2k in back rent is all they were able to dig up on that kid, then the kid is not such a rebel after all.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "If 2k in back rent is all they were able to dig up on that kid, then the kid is not such a rebel after all."

      :)

      Delete
    2. He's just an entitled brat who expects others to pay for him.

      And really to say that Charest dug up dirt on him? You're starting to sound like Amir Khadr with your conspiracy theories.

      Delete
  20. In Canada, Mr Honorable pledges to "continue support for official languages by maintaining funding to protect, celebrate and enhance Canada’s linguistic duality". In Quebec, "English-speaking residents at a Motreal West Island seniors' home are angry and frustrated after a crackdown by the language police meant they could no longer post bilingual signs on a bulletin board"

    Linguistic duality my ass.

    Tony Kondacks, as a naturalized citizen of this country I agree with you. This country has to end.

    http://www.whycanadamustend.com/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @adiski,

      While Quebec is not allowing any reflection of Canadas' linguistic duality in the province and while I am totally against the linguistic chauvanism of the bill 101 supporters and apologists. As an English speaking allo of Quebec I am glad that Canada does have a semblance of historical linguistic duality and recognition to a certain degree of multiculturalism (dreaded by WASP cultural revivalists of the "keep Canada white" persuasion on the one side and Pur Laine francophone chauvanists on the other). The reason being that after seeing the spirit of just one year of a majority conservative government I know how it feels to have a backdoor agenda of making Canada have a WASP facade imposed on the population. IF this duality does crumble, it will hurt not only Francophones outside Quebec but allophones indirectly and in different degrees as well.

      It would be in Francophone Quebecers interests to allow for more linguistic freedom inside quebec for english speakers as it would break alot of the current unifier in the ROC of WASPs and the rest of the allophone descendent population against the linguistic lightning rod of Quebec.

      Delete
    2. "English-speaking residents at a Motreal West Island seniors' home are angry and frustrated after a crackdown by the language police meant they could no longer post bilingual signs on a bulletin board"

      Nul ne peut se soustraire à la loi.

      Delete
    3. "Nul ne peut se soustraire à la loi."

      Misere.....

      Delete
    4. adski:

      The missing link in the whole anglo rights thing is that Canada was and is supposed to "veto" any provincial legislation that violates the rights of its minorities or the freedoms of its individual citizens. Had Ottawa fulfilled its solemn promise in this regard -- one it made on the formation of Canada in 1867 -- we would never have had the problems we have today.

      Canada is the missing link in the whole equation. I have come to the conclusion that Canada is at fault more than any other entity.

      Delete
  21. Yes indeed, lets continue to flush more money down the toilet enforcing “French” outside kebec while allowing our language and culture to be whiped out in kebec (bills 22, 178, 101…) and the rest on the country.

    Just sick Harper, we expected more.

    Our original constitution was fine. That’s right the BNA act served us well until this anti-English language, anti BNA bigot from Kebec, Trudeau decided to force his French style charter on the public.Most of the public have no idea what this man Trudeau and his gang of bigots from Kebec did to this country. They despised our real BNA, UEL history and everything connected to it. All we have lived with for the last several decades are government forced lies, propaganda, the revisionist BS about 2 founding nations, linguistic duality, bilingualism…all lies, all made up in the last several decades.

    But let's cut to the chase here, and lay out why Pierre Trudeau and his then-justice minister, Jean Chretien, so sorely wanted this Liberal-crafted Charter in the first place.

    As many scholars have noted over the years, the only part of the Charter that truly concerned Trudeau was the section dealing with the mobility and language rights of French Canadians.

    In other words, all Trudeau really cared about was the enforcement of "official bilingualism" on the rest of Canada -- the costly and ire-raising policy that, along with uncontrolled multiculturalism, continues to destroy our nation 30 years later.

    The Charter and everything connected with it should be repealed ASAP. The public really has no idea what this parasite, this anti-English language. anti-BNA bigot Trudeau actually did to this country. The charter was forced upon the public, like it or not.

    The Charter has put us at the mercy of political correctness.

    So while Trudeau was forcing the French language all across the Canada, this same scum bag supported the banning (bills 22, 178, 101…) of our language in Kebec. He was a hypocrite, liar, corrupt to the core.


    They bragged about how they would turn Canada into a French state and they have been doing that for the last 5 decades….

    “First Quebec, then we take over the rest of the country, one step at a time…through bilingualism…” PT, “How to take over a country through bilingualism…” SD. How? First comes the right to communicate with gov’t in a minority language (ie French), then comes bilingualism, then comes the right to work in the language of choice(ie French), then comes a bilingual boss,(ie French) then comes a exclusively French department and on it goes until its all French. Its happening all over the country, Ontario, New Brunswick…That’s what’s really going on.

    Time to put an end to this lie, this bilingual fraud.

    Partition Kebec and let it go. The sooner the better as it bankrupts and destroys the whole nation, one step at a time.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What about the BNA refutes the "lie" of two founding nations? The BNA was formed by four provinces - all of which had significant numbers of Francophones. The BNA recognized the right for MPs to express themselves in french at the Parliament. The legislature of East Canada, which was then as now majoritarily French, voted for the BNA. The BNA was drafted by delegates from all four provinces, which included many French delegates from East-Canada, Georges-Étiennes Cartier first and foremost.

      How then, was there not two founding Nations of Canada? Go back over your history, please. It would never have happened without French Canada.

      My next complaints are in bullet-point form.

      -If you knew a bit more about Trudeau, you should know that he was vehemently opposed to Bill 101, to the PQ, and to seperatism.

      -Who is this "they" that "bragged that they would turn Canada into a French State"? Putting your bullshit in quotation marks does not make it an actual quote.

      -The truth is that francophones formed a third of the country back then, and a quarter of the country now (not by decline - but by immigration. 60% of the country only is anglophone, the last 18% is allophone), they pay taxes, they have the right to expect federal services in their language. This is the least that can be done. Nursing the sensibilities of unilingual anglophones is not more important than actual equal treatment.

      Fun fact : by the time of the war of 1812, only 1/5th of the population of present-day Ontario was UEL. 3/5th were recent Americans immigrants who had poured over the feebly-held frontier and colonised the emptiness and were at best indifferent Canadians and at worst American sympathizers. That's why the main problem with waging the 1812 war was indifference on either side of the border - people usually had family on the other side, and no inclination of shooting on them. So much for the UEL foundation of this country! :) (taken from Pierre Berton's 1812 history book, one of the authorities on the subject)

      Delete
    2. "they pay taxes, they have the right to expect federal services in their language"

      The claim to services in French in the RoC is not based on the fact that they pay taxes. I pay taxes too and noone will go out of his way to serve me in my language.

      The claim is rooted in history. The claim is that some French-speaking geezers put pen to paper on some document 300 years ago, and that's supposed to be binding in an English/Mandarin/Punjabi speaking part of the country that the original document didn't even encompass (there was no West back then).

      To me, that's quiet a stretch in privilege seeking based solely on bureaucratic agreements in a distant past. Note again that here I'm talking about the RoC and the OLA, not rights to service in French in Quebec.

      Delete
    3. "I pay taxes too and noone will go out of his way to serve me in my language"

      Vous ne parlez pas français adski.Nous avons portant investi de l'argent pour que vous l'appreniez.

      Delete
    4. What document was signed in 1712? The treaty of Utrecht?

      Delete
    5. 2 replies and 2 digressions.

      Delete
    6. But it's at the heart of your argument - I have no idea what you're talking about when you speak of old french geezers signing a document 300 years ago.

      Regardless, it has nothing to do with it. The OLA recognizes that Canada is formed of both Francophones and Anglophones, and that they are both equal before the law - therefore services are provided to both from coast to coast. Of course there is a lesser need in the West for french services, and there are also less bilingual employees. Only 5% of the federal employees in the West are required to be bilingual for their job, mostly in federal institutions like National Parks and so on. Seeing how these process tourists from all over the country, I don't know what the local population has to do with the need to provide equal services to both languages.

      Conversely, there is less need for services in English in Quebec, so a greater proportion of the federal employees there needs to know French, and a smaller proportion needs to know English.

      If there were 20% of the country that was Mandarin, Punjabi, or Polish they would probably have linguistic rights. But there isn't. The third single most spoken language in Canada is Italians, making up 1.5% of the population. Mandarin sits at 0.5% of the population.

      Delete
    7. Adski,si un jour je vais vivre en Europe mais que le polonais,par exemple, me laisse indifférent comme langue,croyez-vous que je serais assez stupide pour aller m'établir en Pologne?

      Delete
    8. "Of course there is a lesser need in the West for french services, and there are also less bilingual employees. Only 5% of the federal employees in the West are required to be bilingual for their job,"

      A lot less actually.

      French commonly spoken in the home by percentage of population.

      AB 0.7%
      SK 0.5%
      BC 0.4%
      MB 1.8%

      Why the 5.0% hiring quota you indicate (which BTW it actually is) when there is really absolutely no need. In fact if you look at the number of francos who cannot speak english the already low figures presented above fade to nearly nothing.

      Imagine, we have French CBC radio and TV maintained at huges costs to taxpayers that few, if any, regularily watch.

      There are only 13% unilingally French in Canada (French but no english) but the OLA calls for hiring quotas of 40% across the country as a whole.

      The OLA is a failed enterprise and has not produced any concrete results since it was incepted in 1969. Canada is no more bilingual now that it was in the 70's. The program has failed, at incredible cost to the Canadian taxpayer (some say over 300 Billion dollars has been wasted).

      Time to re-evaluate the OLA and quite pouring money down the drain.

      The figures presented are from the Office of the Official Language Commissioner of Canada.

      Delete
    9. The OLA's purpose is to provide federal bilingual services. I understand that these services are often given grudgingly, especially in the west, and that they are often of poor quality due to hiring "bilingual" candidates who actually aren't bilingual. However, it certainly is an improvement over no bilingual services at all, so I would say that the OLA is a success. It has also encouraged the availability of french education for minorities all over Canada for which the francophones had been fighting for decades. All the western provinces now have francophone schools and francophone school districts, and that is a huge success.

      I'm not sure why people keep parroting that the OLA was designed to make everyone bilingual from coast to coast. It never was, but it's a nice strawman argument to beat on when more intelligent arguments are impossible. Of course the OLA exists so that people don't have to be bilingual, by providing equal services in both languages.

      The argument based on the fact that the local population should be equal to the share of bilingual jobs is also lucridous. Did I not mention, for instance, that many of these jobs are servicing places with National or International appeal (such as National Parks, international airports, etc..) which francophones from all over the country are able to use and therefore expect service in their official language of choice? Many management positions also have to be able to correspond in french with federal counterparts in different parts of the country, as the federal service is in principle a bilingual service where part of the workforce operates in french, part operates in english and part operates bilingually.

      Don't be fooled - these are not quotas. Jobs are designed to be bilingual due to the nature of the job, not because they feel like there ought to be 5% of bilingual jobs west of Canada.

      If we were to base hiring "quotas" on local or national population alone, then you would need 62% unilingual Anglophone workers, 17% bilingual workers, 19% unilingual French, as well as 2% poor sods who know neither English nor French and would need to be switched out as soon as they started learning the language of their coworkers.

      In actuality, 60% of the jobs are English essential, 8% of the jobs are French essential, and 25% of the jobs require bilingualism. 7% require English or French, interchangeably. That doesn't seem so far off the numbers, does it? Actually there are too many bilingual jobs, and not enough French essential jobs, so that the demand for English is actually higher than the demographics would indicate. Strange how the real world is, huh?

      Delete
    10. I know a Quebecois from up north who works for Environment Canada in Ottawa. The guy bends over backwards defending all the measures that were implemented to give his people priority and let them climb the social ladder.

      Things he sells I don't buy. He tries to convince me that his people are in danger of disappearance, that's why he supplements his income by sitting on some bilingualism board at work (a "bilingualism board". talk about wasting taxpayer's money). Curiously, he doesn't sit on the "bilingualism board" pro bono, but for 10k extra on his paycheck. He pitches his story of poor endangered culture to me from his beautiful house in Hull, with two SUVs in the driveway. Pardon me monsieur, I think in my head, but you are so full of merde.

      The threat is an excuse. Greed is the reality. Greed is the primary motivating factor for the people of this province. And greed is why their province will crumble. Quebec will fall not because of its "precarious" geography, but because its people have been over-pampered and lost grip on reality, which will catch up with them sooner or later.

      Delete
    11. Vous ne répondez pas à ma question adski?Que faites vous ici si vous n'aimez pas votre milieu...Full of merde?Qu'attedez-vous pour prendre le large sous des cieux qui vous conviendraients mieux?Ne me dites surtout pas que c'est une question géographique.

      Delete
  22. Interesting graphic showing tution difference across Canada.

    http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/05/18/how-quebecs-tuition-price-tags-match-up-to-the-rest-of-canada-graphic/

    ReplyDelete
  23. La loi spéciale contestée devant les tribunaux

    http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/justice-et-faits-divers/201205/25/01-4528674-la-loi-speciale-contestee-devant-les-tribunaux.php

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  24. Pétition MONDIALE pour la démission de Johnny Charest.

    http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2012/05/25/un-mouvement-mondial-citoyen-lance-une-petition-reclamant-la-demission

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  25. "Mandarin sits at 0.5% of the population."

    Are you sure about this? I read somewhere that if QC is excluded from the calculation and only the RoC provinces are taken into account, Mandarin overtakes French in number of speakers. You can of course say: why are you excluding Quebec, Quebec is part of Canada. Well, I'm not excluding Quebec, Quebec is excluding itself, and has been for a long time now. Unless all this separation talk is/was just a way to get noticed, in which case you should have been honest about it.

    But for the sake of argument, take the 0.5%. According to the Anon above, SK has 0.5% of French speakers. Yet you'd still argue for French services in SK, and your argument would be based on history and agreements from a distant past. That was my point above. That and the fact that I don't accept this argumentation. Current demography and people's preferences should be more of a guide than long forgotten histories or bureaucratic decisions of people (deluded enough not to insist on dropping the title of "honorable" from next to their names), like the honorable gent quoted earlier.

    As for the 300 years ago thing, I though that was clear. Obviously I didn't mean 2012-300=1712. I simple meant long ago not to matter to most people anymore.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's what the census says. Of course if you take in any form of Chinese dialects you get about 1.5 million people (whole Canada, not ROC) - but you're talking about a family of languages unintelligible to each other. It makes about as much sense as to lump Italian, Spanish, Portuguese and French together just because they are all Latin based.

      Delete
    2. It's actually not based on history, but on the fact that a Francophone's federal services shouldn't disappear if he moves from Quebec to Ontario, from Manitoba to Nova Scotia, etc... just like an Anglophone's federal services remain if he moves to Quebec. Provincial services are, (unfortunately), determined only by the province with the sole exception of education which is constitutionally protected for linguistic minorities all throughout Canada.

      I still don't know which document you're talking about, by the way.

      Delete
    3. Yannick, wait...

      Of course if you take in any form of Chinese dialects you get about 1.5 million people (whole Canada, not ROC) - but you're talking about a family of languages unintelligible to each other.

      The dialects in Chinese language refers to the way each character in the hanzi in pronounced. However, the characters themselves (tens of thousands or them) are the same. Therefore, in writing the are all the same. Chinese literature is generally interchangeable between dialects. That is why they are classified as dialects, not languages. Italian, French, Portuguese and Spanish are Romance languages, but each one of them is a language by itself.

      Delete
    4. In light of that, I agree it's not quite the same. You could get away with a single set of "Chinese" written documentation, and it would make more sense to have it (if you ignore Quebec) than french documentation based on numbers alone. That may be the reason why it's actually easier to obtain chinese documentation than french documentation in western Canada. For instance, the local francos of Alberta were quite peeved at the last elections when documentation was offered in english and six other languages but not in french.

      As for federal services? I still think it's a stretch to say that we should offer Chinese services but not french ones.

      Delete
    5. Here are the figures from a quick Google search:

      From the 2006 Census, "Languages spoke most often at home": 796,345 Chinese Languages. See: Chinese Languages spoken in Canada.

      And here is the breakdown of which languages are included in Chinese Languages.

      31,241,030 was the total population of Canada in 2006, so all Chinese Languages constitute about 2.7% of all home languages spoken in Canada. Depending upon what percentage of those Chinese Languages are Mandarin would determine whether the 0.5% is accurate. I suspect it isn't because most Chinese speak Mandarin.

      Delete
    6. My assumptions about Mandarin were incorrect.

      According to "Mother Tongue" there are about 3 times more Cantonese speakers than Mandarin. See: Mother Tongue.

      Cantonese is the language of Hong Kong; Mandarin the main language of the mainland.

      Also note there are over 1,000,000 "Chinese" speakers under Mother Tongue as opposed to almost 800,000 "at home" speakers.

      Delete
    7. Remember that we have many Cantonese from Hong Kong, who used to be a UK dependancy and as such benefited from advantages when immigrating to commonwealth countries. On the other hands, Mandarins have only recently been allowed to emigrate from Mainland China.

      Delete
    8. Yannick,

      As an immigrant myself I can state that the mere fact that Hong Kong was a British dependent territory had no obvious administrative benefit for those Hong Kongers to immigrate to Canada. What made Canada accept them in such great number is simply $$$, be it HKD, USD or CAD. That is one of the reasons why the housing market in Vancouver is as crazy as it is today - average Vancouver property is 3-4 times Montreal property - because the rich Hong Kongers artificially jacked the price up.

      Delete
    9. Another thing.

      Checking Wikipedia, I am a bit surprised to see that Montreal is considered a major Chinese-speaking settlement while other cities I thought considered more "cosmopolitan" and "global" are not. E.g. Detroit, Frankfurt, Brussels.

      Delete
    10. I must have been wrong. What's the commonwealth good for, then?

      Delete
    11. Yannick,

      In terms of immigration to Canada? Nothing. In fact, aside of the Commonwealth Games I do not see tangible "special relationships" between members of the Commonwealth. If there is, it is in the form of bilateral / multilateral agreement not necessarily related to the Commonwealth caucus.

      However, it is worth noted that Canadian citizens can get consular assistance - in English or French - from Australian or British diplomatic mission abroad where Canadian mission is not available.

      Delete
  26. Editor:

    Thanks so much for the link to the Consultations page for input on Linguistic Duality.

    Here's what I wrote on the first page of the consultation:

    1) Do whatever is possible to amend section 23 of the Canadian Charte of Rights and Freedoms so that ALL residents of Canada (including Quebec) can, where numbers warrant, choose to educate their children in either French or English publicly funded schools.

    2) If suggestion #1 cannot be achieved, all possible pressure should be put on the Quebec Government to implement section 23.1.a of the Charter so that it applies in Quebec (implemented via the provisions of s. 59 of the Constitution Act, 1982.

    3) Repeal Part VII of the Official Language Act (OLA). This is clearly a violation of section 15 of the Charter since the Supreme Court of Canada declared that "language" must be considered a prohibited base of discrimination (they did this in 2005's Gosselin Tudor case).

    4) Put as much pressure on the Quebec government to repeal the hate law/race law Bill 101 and to make both English and French the official languages of the province of Quebec.

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    Replies
    1. Why should Quebec be officially bilingual? The only officially bilingual province in Canada is New Brunswick with a 30% francophone minority - much higher than the 10% or so of Quebec anglophones. Where do you draw the line? Ontario is 5% francophone, do they count as officially bilingual too?

      Delete
    2. Quebec should be officially bilingual because that is what was intended when Canada was created. Indeed, for those areas of society in which government was involved in during that epoch (1867), English in Quebec was guaranteed in the BNA Act: the provincial courts, the schools, the legislative assembly.

      It is only now in the modern era in which we see such an incredible increase in the influence in government in so many walks of life that the original intentions of the BNA Act aren't adequate: health care, social services, etc. So the BNA Act was outdated once government started to play such an integral part of our lives (and such a large percentage of GDP).

      As for percentages, why should that matter? When the first language legislation was implemented in Quebec back in 1969, the anglophones of Quebec had a population, numberwise, that was greater than at least 6 other provinces (maybe even 7 or 8, without looking it up). As well, the English of Montreal just prior to the creation of Canada in 1867 were part of the MAJORITY (the United Province of Upper and Lower Canada was one entity) and only became a minority with the creation of Canada and its four provinces. It was with the creation of the anglos of Quebec as a minority in 1867 that the solemn promise that our newly-created minority status would be protected was made (and that promise was never kept, I might add). Percentage has nothing to do with it.

      As for the francophones of other provinces? Where numbers warrant they most certainly should have French as an official language. As it stands now, where numbers warrant has benefited New Brunswick's minority linguistic community and them only. The francophones of Moncton have far, FAR more rights than the anglophones of Blanc Sablon, Quebec.

      If you truly want to help the francophones outside Quebec, throw as many rights and freedoms on the anglos of Quebec. This will rise the standard high and will bring francophones outside of Quebec UP to the highest denominator, rather than minimize the rights of anglos in Quebec, which brings the standard DOWN to the lowest denominator.

      Delete
    3. Fair enough, Tony. That makes sense.

      Delete
  27. "Put as much pressure on the Quebec government to repeal the hate law/race law Bill 101 and to make both English and French the official languages of the province of Quebec."

    Bonne chance! :)

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    1. Hey, they asked; I answered.

      Some on this forum look upon me as dreaming impractical dreams. Well, if I'm asked, that's what I want so I'm gonna say it.

      Twice the anglos have gone on record when they have been asked what we want. In the Belanger-Campeau Commission of about 1992, the Equality Party minority report stated what we wanted

      Neil Cameron as an Equality MNA stated it in his Bill 199, the Charter of the English and French Languages.

      I think all on this forum who aspire to advocate for full rights and freedoms for the anglos of Quebec should familiarize themselves with the language of these things so that when are asked by the powers that be what we want we can answer in the most coherent way. This stuff is important.

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    2. One other point, Yannick.

      If Quebec is a "distinct society" and the quebecois are a "people who constitute a nation within Canada" as that famous resolution stated (voted in the affirmative by almost all Quebec MPs) then, you see, Quebec is not a province like all the others.

      So why compare Quebec to any of the other nine provinces? You make a comparison of the rights that the francophones outside of Quebec have compared with the anglos of Quebec. But those other nine entities are mere "provinces"; Quebec is, according to perhaps you but certainly millions of nationalist Quebecers much, MUCH more than just a province like all the others.

      You can't have it both ways. When it is convenient for Quebec, it is a "nation", a "distinct society". But when it convenient, Quebec quickly morphs into a province like all the others (e.g., equalization, or this discussion here). Make up your mind. Either Quebec is a province like all the others, or it isn't. If it isn't, please stop comparing the rights of francophones outside Quebec with the rights of anglos inside Quebec.

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    3. The argument makes sense on the surface: Quebec is either like all the other provinces, or it isn't. Therefore, it either deserves the exact same treatment as all the other provinces (in which case we should never mention its distinctiveness) or it should be treated differently (in which case the treatment of other provinces is irrelevant). I hope you will understand the fallacy of the argument with my analogy.

      Homosexuals are distinct from heterosexuals, in that they are not the same as heterosexuals. They are often the target of hate crime. In a trial, it would not be irrelevant to point out that the victim is an open homosexual, and that the accused has shown himself to be a homophobe. How then, can I turn around and claim that homosexuals deserve to have the same right to marriage as heterosexuals? Surely, homosexuals are distinct from heterosexuals, and the rights of heterosexuals have no bearing on the rights of homosexuals.

      Of course this would be ridiculous - sometimes the context means that Quebec's "distinctiveness" is relevant. Sometimes it is spurious. The nature of Quebec's distinctiveness, as defined by that resolution, is both enshrining the painfully obvious as well as entirely symbolic in meaning. Not a single new right, privilege, or advantage was conferred on Quebec by it. It merely recognized that Quebec is the only French province out of all of Canada, and that makes it different.

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    4. Your points are well taken, Yannick.

      If the "distinctiveness" of Quebec remains just an observation of a sociological fact, then I agree with you. No harm in that.

      But it has been proposed at times in the past that Quebec be recognized as a "distinct society" or in other similar wording in the constitution and that this distinctiveness become an interpretive clause. As such, it which would influence all other parts of the constitution. This is the specific objection that Pierre Trudeau had to the Meech Lake Accord.

      Of course, both Meech and Charlottetown did not become law, so we don't have to worry about that, as far as those proposals are concerned.

      What I'd like to know is to what degree -- if any -- that the "nation" resolution of Stephen Harper's from about 5 years ago influences the Surpreme Court decisions. If so, this would give credence to my argument that Quebec is being treated differently than other provinces over and above what is allowed it in the constitution.

      Nevertheless, I still believe it is legitimate in conversations about Quebec and its distinctiveness to remember that it does claim at different times to more than a province (ie, when it wants more powers from Ottawa) and at other times to be a province (when it lines up at the equalization trough). And, as I stated earlier, if it wants to emphasize its distinctiveness, then let it be distinct from other provinces and become officially bilingual without the standard of what other "mere" provinces do being imposed on the conversation.

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    5. T. Kondaks,

      If Quebec is a "distinct society" and the quebecois are a "people who constitute a nation within Canada" as that famous resolution stated (voted in the affirmative by almost all Quebec MPs) then, you see, Quebec is not a province like all the others.

      The resolution recognized Quebecois as a nation within Canada. It is silent on Quebec as a political entity. Therefore, the province of Quebec is but one of ten provinces in Canada, nothing more, nothing less.

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    6. Point taken, Tony. But I think it's because in some instances the distinctiveness is relevant (i.e. processing immigrants, for instance) and in some instances it isn't (all canadians pay the same taxes, so there shoudn't be a "screw Quebec" factor in the equalization formula)

      I can understand your distrust considering the distinct society/constitutional veto argument, but as Troy points out the province in itself was not recognised as any different than any other. Harper's famous proclamation was of sociological persuasion alone. Which is why it wasn't particularly impressive to Quebeckers or non-Quebeckers alike.

      It is a bit like the parliament of UK drafting a proclamation that the deportation of the Acadians in 1755 was a bad thing and that they are sorry - a nice symbolic gesture recognizing the painfully obvious, that should have been done decades if not centuries ago if it was going to have any real importance.

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    7. Yannick writes:

      I can understand your distrust considering the distinct society/constitutional veto argument, but as Troy points out the province in itself was not recognised as any different than any other.

      Pierre Trudeau responded to this point in his famous speech on the Meech Lake Accord when he appeared before the Senate of Canada. Without going to the trouble to wade through it to quote it, what he says is that both the BNA Act and the 1982 Constitution already recognized many distinct aspects of Quebec society: the right to its civil law and code (only Quebec has it; the other nine are under common law), the right to use French in various institutions, the right to opt out with compensation of certain federal programs, exemption from section 23.1.a of the Charter, and so on.

      As Trudeau said in regards to the patriation of the constitution in 1982: Quebec never said "thank you" but they got plenty."

      So there are many parts of the Constitution that already recognizes Quebec's distinctiveness and this is, as you say, relevant. However, over and above all that, I contend that Quebec is and has become something much more and much different than just a mere province and, indeed, acts and expects to treated as such (except of course when it comes time for goodies). My point is: don't play both sides of the fence; you can't always have your cake and eat it, too.

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  28. Here's an interesting article,

    "Multinational companies are now mandating that employees communicate only in English."

    http://www.10news.com/money/31081432/detail.html

    Yet quebec, part of an English speaking country, legislates against the language. Strange.

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  29. Tiens donc...!

    Des étudiants ontariens veulent aussi lutter contre les droits de scolarité:

    http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/education/201205/25/01-4528800-des-etudiants-ontariens-veulent-aussi-lutter-contre-les-droits-de-scolarite.php

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  30. 'Time to re-evaluate the OLA and quite pouring money down the drain'

    Time for the 'national assembly' to be boarded up, for past and present members of the Bloc and PQ to be arrested and tried for sedition, for the military to 'pacify' all militia/terrorist groups in the province, and for the province to become officially bilingual and equitable. Enough is enough. Roll in the tanks Stephen!

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  31. "Enough is enough. Roll in the tanks Stephen!"

    Des chars d'assaut américains?...Encore les produits du voisin...pathétique.

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  32. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/05/ukrainian-lawmakers-come-to-blows-over-russian-language-video.html

    "Opponents fear that giving the official nod to use of Russian in hospitals, schools and other official institutions, even in just some parts of the country, could hurt the Ukrainian language."


    The Quebec disease seems to be spreading to other parts of the world.

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    1. Globalization is spreading. Cultures and countries will be faced with the decision to either cooperate and gradually lose their national identity, or fight back with what measured they have to maintain their local distinctiveness.

      I think that in the short term we will see much of the former, and later much of the latter.

      Delete
    2. ...which is pathetic since we could have both without sacrificing too much on either side.

      Delete
    3. "Cultures and countries will be faced with the decision to either cooperate and gradually lose their national identity"


      I reject the excuse we have to do it or we lose our culture. I find it to be more of an excuse than a reason.

      Here is a good book no this subject: Jihad vs. McWorld

      http://books.google.ca/books?id=E7gZ-8wtQAkC&printsec=frontcover&dq=mcworld+vs+jihad&hl=en&sa=X&ei=7HfBT6baA-rm6gGrz7ycCg&ved=0CDUQuwUwAA#v=onepage&q=mcworld%20vs%20jihad&f=false

      The book is about Anglo-American driven economic globalization vs local nationalisms that spring up in response. A few pages are dedicated to QC in this book.

      Benjamin Barber is critical of both nationalism and globalization. Rightly so in my opinion. Both are odious and both are flip sides of each other - both stem from desires of power and control. They just mask it differently. Globalization apologists pretend to be about openness, nationalists pretend to love their culture. I don't buy either excuse, and I refuse to accept that we have to pick between one or the the other. I'm sure that somewhere there is a solution to maintaining one's identity without resorting to discriminatory measures.

      The case of Ukraine is even more interesting, because it doesn't concern Anglo-Americans but Russians. Globalization is not Russian-driven. So the Ukrainian motives are a mix of insecurity and plain Rusophobia masquerading as concern for the Ukrainian language. I know this phenomenon very well from my own country, where nationalism is synonymous with Rusophobia. But in my country nationalism is confined to the fringes and treated harshly by the mainstream. I'm not sure about Ukraine but I hope they'll be able to suppress this latest outburst of it. It is crucial to nip this thing like this in the bud so it doesn't become ingrained in the culture and "normalized" in the society.

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    4. "But in my country nationalism is confined to..."

      Si je comprend bien vous n'êtes pas canadien et encore moins Québécois.

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    5. The english are not the only ones exporting their language. The french used to do it, the russians are still doing it, and the chinese are starting to do it. In the end in the battle for globalization there can be only one, but that doesen't mean that others won't try to expand their turf.

      Still, interesting points to consider in any case. You'll forgive me if I don't discuss them, as I will ponder on it for a while first.

      Delete
    6. adski I find it both intriguing and comforting that you and I can have such different personal histories (including ethnic backgrounds) and yet our views be as compatible as they are.

      Thank you.

      Delete
  33. "The Quebec disease seems to be spreading to other parts of the world."

    Ne sous-estimez jamais notre influence sur le monde.

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  34. "...or fight back with what measured they have to maintain their local distinctiveness."

    Un bel exemple avec la France récemment.Je crois que les Français se préparent pour une sortie de l'Euro.

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  35. Mr. Spock's verdict based on La Marois:

    http://twitpic.com/9pjr8s

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    1. Pourriez-vous demander à votre ami Spock d'analyser le discours de Johnny?

      http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=189832884466325

      Merci pour vos références intergalactiques américaines,créées par des...Artistes.

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  36. 'english are not the only ones exporting their language. The french used to do it'

    I'm glad you brought this up. Francophone Quebecers seek to identify themselves as a victim group, oppressed and colonized. They have been opportunistic in hopping on the coat tails of humanitarian and political movements in the past few decades. Initially, they usurped the role of oppressed indigenous people on the brink of assimilation and cultural extinction. More recently, they've taken on the mantle of a resistance to globalization. Since the lingua franca of the day is English, it's a cause they can disguise themselves in as a force for social justice and against the corporate beasts that devour the planet. It all works very well for local consumption by a population raised on the propaganda of a deficient school system.

    Of course, these are all lies. Francophone Quebecers have been at the forefront of European colonialism from its inception and represent the very element that eradicated North American indigenous cultures and attempted to do the same in other places of the globe. Considering that modern Quebec coerces its minorities into assimilating or moving out of the territory, it's a clear indication that the doctrines of the colonizers are alive and well and are in fact, the driving principle behind all political Francophone movements in Quebec.
    Recognition of Francophone Quebec as having special status within Canada was a mistake similar to the pity fuck for the divorced spouse. The reality of it is that as representatives and the descendants of a failed empire, Quebecers haven't earned, nor deserve special status within the union. They deserve equality - no more, and no less. That would exclude the provincial powers they enjoy over education and immigration as they seek to use them against the very union that allows them to remain on its territory. The claim to being one of the founding cultures is also ridiculous and Eurocentric. North America was found well before the French or the English made their way over here.
    Canada needs to enforce the principles of what it means to be Canadian, our rights and privileges, which are at the core of our identity in a land made up of various ethnicities and new ones arriving every day. Quebec has to be forced to comply with the constitution and the charter, the not withstanding clause be damned. The risk of not doing so is not only the break up of the country in the East, but along other lines as well. The same will be true of an independent Quebec which will quickly face an independence movement by the First Nations in the province. Canadians out West thinking that the problem is all the way over there, had better wake up to the idea that it's really in their back yard and that sedition that they pay for with their tax dollars should not be tolerated under any circumstances if they want to ensure the survival and the promise of Canada for themselves and for their descendants.

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    1. "Of course, these are all lies. Francophone Quebecers have been at the forefront of European colonialism from its inception and represent the very element that eradicated North American indigenous cultures"

      Ben oui, à côté des gros méchants québécois, les conquistadores espagnols peuvent aller se rhabiller.

      Quand on connait les tendances révionnistes des québécois, il ne faut pas se surprendre qu'on "oublie" dans leurs cours d'histoire de parler de la participation de Samuel de Champlain aux massacres des Apaches, ou de l'extermination des Béothuks par Jacques Cartier. Ces québécois qui nous font la morale ont quand même pendu Louis Riel et massacré les Incas!

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    2. I'm sure Catholic spires found their way into First Nations settlements from some divine inspiration of their own. There is more than one way to destroy a culture and it doesn't always have to be by the sword.

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    3. Je suis désolé de vous apprendre que ce qui a réellement détruit la culture amérindienne, c'est le système de réserves et les écoles résidentielles. Pas grand-chose que les québecois ont eu à faire la-dedans...

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    4. It's easy to forget that the French colonial territory stretched all the way to Louisiana and beyond. From the Haitian plantations to the trade routes further north, the French sought to dominate, pacify and annex these territories to their empire. Quebec was only a small part of this land mass. There is no difference between one group of colonizers and another, only in their level of success and to the amounts of natural resources found in the lands they subjugated. Had Quebec been rich in gold and silver the way South America was, the golf course at Oka would stretch for miles as there would be nobody left to resist it.
      Thinking of Quebec as a small colony that only seeks to retain its identity is a mistake. In a historical context, it's part of the same movement that brought French boots and arms to Africa, the Middle East and Indochina. De Gaulle's 'vive le Quebec libre' coincided with an armed and vicious attempt at these other parts of the world, most notably Vietnam, to reestablish French political and economic dominance. Insidiously, this came soon after thousands of Canadians lost their lives to liberate France from Germany and their Vichy allies - and this, with resistance to the draft and the war from within Quebec.

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    5. "In a historical context, it's part of the same movement that brought French boots and arms to Africa, the Middle East and Indochina." I disagree. France's second colonial empire is an entirely different context from the first empire. For a few differences, the first empire was done under a monarchy for mercantilistic reasons whereas the second empire was achieved under a republic for nationalistic reasons. In the first, the only important thing was that the colony be economically or militarily worthwhile; that is the reason why France prefered to regain the sugar islands rather than Canada at the treaty of Paris in 1763. Under the second empire, the civilizing mission was first and foremost as a means of increasing French prestige in the world.

      Apples and oranges.

      "From the Haitian plantations to the trade routes further north, the French sought to dominate, pacify and annex these territories to their empire."

      Different colonies had different intents and therefore different methods were used. In Canada, Louisiana and the river network in between, the intent was to secure alliances with the natives for means of trade and war. For that reason, relationships between the French and the natives were very good. Acadia, particularly, stands out as one of the best success stories of colonial/native relations until the conquest.

      In Haiti, of course all the natives had already been wiped out by the spanish by the time the French managed to settle the western part of the island in 1664. But one can imagine that the interest of the French (turn the whole island in a sugar plantation) would have conflicted with the interest of the natives (continue to exist). Unfortunately we will never know...

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    6. It’s easy to compare to apples and oranges. For example, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here.

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  37. "Apples and oranges."

    How so? Colonialism, whatever its intent, was still the driving principle and that erases any claim of modern Quebec as being at the receiving end of such actions by another group. Whatever the French pretenses for colonialism were, the only certainty is that they are the same as the English and the Spanish. Different faces on the same coin and modern attempts at revisionism are vastly untruthful.
    Quebecois nationalism today has more to do with reclaiming what was lost and nothing to do with the plight of an indigenous victim group trying to assert its culture. The latter is the untruthful moral principle used to subjugate Canadian minorities in the province, to suspend their rights as citizens of this country and to politically disenfranchise them.
    As with other colonial powers, the methods of subjugation varied from one part of the globe to the next. Military and economic expediency were the rule of the day. French relationships with First Nations peoples in North America are not indicators of enlightened visitors and this can be demonstrated by their willingness to use violence in other parts of the world to meet their ends. In the Americas they were best served by attempting to befriend indigenous cultures and use them against rival colonial powers like the British. This is merely the result of the weaker position France found itself in.

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    1. "Colonialism, whatever its intent, was still the driving principle and that erases any claim of modern Quebec as being at the receiving end of such actions by another group."

      I'm not following the argument. Are you claiming that because Quebec is inhabited by the descendants of colonizers, it cannot claim to be victim of it? Because I'm pretty sure that Latin America could claim to be victim of colonization under the spanish, and then at the hands of the British and the Americans until fairly recently, despite being the descendants of the spanish.

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    2. "Quebecois nationalism today has more to do with reclaiming what was lost and nothing to do with the plight of an indigenous victim group trying to assert its culture. The latter is the untruthful moral principle used to subjugate Canadian minorities in the province, to suspend their rights as citizens of this country and to politically disenfranchise them. "

      It looks that way to me. The culture of QC is more colonialist-like than victim-like, with the phrase "maitres chez nous" now deeply ingrained in the culture.

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    3. "Are you claiming that because Quebec is inhabited by the descendants of colonizers, it cannot claim to be victim of it?"

      If you're one of the major colonialist powers, you can lose a colonial war to another colonizing power and suffer consequences which may or may not be too pleasant. Was the fate of French North Americans enviable after 1783? No. Was it the worst that could have happened? No. Marginalization of the people seems to be the major consequence, which is harsh if you're used to being on the pedestal, but not as harsh as the fate of the "brutes" that the French, British, Dutch, Belgians, and Germans subjugated and exterminated in Africa.

      Now, your argument is: can't a former colonizer become colonized? Let's assume that it can. But then, can't the colonized colonizer bounce back and become the colonizer again? It can if conditions are right. The question now is: do the culture, behavior, mentality, attitude of QC's ethnic majority point to signs of reemergence of the colonizer spirit that laid dormant for a couple of centuries but was strongly propagated through culture and nostalgia? In my opinion, yes.

      As I said before, 3 decades long maintenance of bill 101 to me is not a sign of a culture defending itself. It's a sign of a culture very determined to clear the field, essentially what is that colonizers do. Colonizers by nature cannot live in harmony and on equal terms with others. Colonizers place themselves a level higher.

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  38. Montreal back in the good ol’days… before the PQ ushered in today’s decrepitude… and when things were respectfully available in both English and French. From the City of Montreal Archives,there are links to plenty of other interesting videos.

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  39. "Are you claiming that because Quebec is inhabited by the descendants of colonizers, it cannot claim to be victim of it?"

    At this point I'm claiming that your arguments come from a dishonest place. If you are familiar enough with the examples you bring up then you are certainly in a position to see the same trends in modern Quebec. Yes, it's true that the colonizers can suffer the fate they sought to impose, but in Quebec it's glaringly obvious that French colonization never died. From the calls of Lionel Groulx for more white, Catholic French babies to the Levesques and Beaulieus of today and the imposition of 101, the suspension of democracy for ethnic minorities and the enforced assimilation practiced by the educational system in the province, the racially motivated politics of Quebec and its existence within the union as a rogue and illegal political entity are as glaringly obvious as its attempt to recolonize this territory. It's difficult to be an apologist for Quebecois nationalism when the entire movement is based on complete and utter bullshit.

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  40. I escaped from Quebec! You can too. http://goo.gl/maps/rRjv

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