Wednesday, May 30, 2012

Educational Divide between French & English Underscores Altered Perceptions

My son is a young professional, starting out in a career in a high paying field with a bright, stable and certain future. He studied hard, put in his time, got his degree and will no doubt be rewarded for his efforts over the term of his career.

With his first real job in hand, albeit an entry level one at that, he and his wife confidently bought a small condo in an old building that was decidedly a fixer-upper.

The first quote that he received for some plumbing work was a shocking eye-opener.
"Dad," he  whined incredulously. "This guy is making three time what I make and I've got degrees up the wazoo! "

"Shudda become a plumber!" I answered sarcastically.

Funny, burlesque, but actually quite true.

Last week I ran a translated letter by Lysiane Gagnon wherein she reminded readers of the educational divide between Anglophones, Allophones versus Francophones.
While English cegeps and universities are crammed, French schools go begging for students, to the point that some are offering classes and degrees in English.
That's how desperate they've become.

On Friday last, Jack Jedwad added his two cents to the debate;
 "A survey conducted last April by Léger Marketing for The Gazette and the Association for Canadian Studies revealed that only 46 per cent of Quebecers, compared with 60 per cent of people in the rest of Canada, agree that “a university degree is essential toward succeeding in today’s society.” That response merits broader discussion in Quebec.  Read the rest of the story

Most of us anglos and allos grew up in families that placed a high value on a university degree. Ironically,  where our parents didn't have a post-secondary degree, the desire to see us achieve one seemed to burn even brighter.
Back then, a university degree was perceived as a ticket out of the grunge labor market and for those of our parents working in factories, retail, clerical or other poorly paid  jobs, it was an attitude that we could well understand.

Still today, professional degrees, be it medicine, science, computer science, pharmacology, engineering, law etc. are pretty much a guaranteed ticket to success.
But for general degrees be it in the liberal arts or letters domain, a university degree doesn't even put you ahead of the line in applying for a job as a barista .

The value of a general university degree has been so over-valued, that society, in a push to graduate everyone, has opened up fields of study leading to a degree where the work involved can be considered the equivalent of a high school course a few decades ago.

Other than the 'high' value' degrees, industry has discounted these degrees and most of these students have largely wasted their time in university.
That famous 'Bachelor of Arts" degree is the new high school diploma.

Here are some interesting facts from the USA.
 One-third of all college graduates end up taking jobs that don't even require college degrees.
There are more than 100,000 janitors that have college degrees.
317,000 waiters and waitresses and 365,000 cashiers have college degrees, 24.5 percent of all retail salespeople have a college degree.
Once they get out into the "real world", 70% of all college graduates wish that they had spent more time preparing for the "real world" while they were still in school.

Read:  University education no guarantee of earnings success 

So maybe, just maybe, the francophones attitude, which places a lesser value on university degrees has it right and maybe we have it wrong....

It's hard when a basic tenet is challenged, but funneling everyone to university is no doubt a mistake.

The idea of lowering standards so that the academically challenged can graduate with valueless degrees is something that a responsible government should reconsider.

Nowhere in the current debate over tuition fees does anyone ask whether this model of streaming as many people as possible to university makes sense at all.
Today's society does not need more college and university graduates, we need less, a lot less.

On the francophone side, officials are so obsessed with catching up to the Anglo side in terms of graduates, that students without high school diplomas are being encouraged to enter cegep and given course loads dumbed down, based on their educational capacity.
In the end nobody is a winner.

I haven't a clue how to account for the different perceptions between francophones and anglophones/ethnics in relation to the perceived value of a university degree, but it does appear the  francophone attitude is more realistic and in fact more practicable.

The problem remains that society in general and the government in particular is trying to change that francophone perception, when in fact it should be modifying its own attitude in the other direction.

Instead of pushing unqualified students into dead-end programs in cegep and university, they should be offering training in careers in the booming resource sector, where a miner with a year or two of training can make upwards of a $100,000.

Professional degrees will always remain important, but interestingly, the government need not make any effort to promote these elite programs, students that are high achievers need no encouragement, the medical schools and engineering schools will always receive many more applicants than can be accommodated, even in French universities.

Now I am not calling for an elimination of the social studies, art, history or geography courses and other 'soft' courses. Society needs to be well-rounded and these studies are essential.
What I am saying is that these courses have been watered down to accommodate poor students and this is what needs to be changed.
Offering fields of study that don't have a big financial return for society is a luxury that should be reserved for elite students, not dummies.

These courses should be as equally demanding as the study of medicine or law. Those who can't hack it, shouldn't be in school.

It's time to reassess the notion that university is a plus for everyone, it isn't.

It's time society put equal or more value on job training in lucrative industries and fields where Quebec's future lies.

By reducing the number of those who don't deserve the privilege of having their studies underwritten by society, enough money could be found to make the necessary savings to keep tuition low.

I actually remain sympathetic to low tuition fees, but I object to paying for substandard students pretending they are university material when clearly they are not.

There are many ways to find the money to support lower tuition fees, the most important saving to be found is in reducing overall capacity.

If the student associations want to reduce costs and therefore tuition, they need to look to themselves first and get rid of the deadwood.

The problem with Quebec is that we're always having the wrong conversation.

Don't miss Friday's post.......  Partition is Separatists' Last Hope!

106 comments:

  1. One major problem, esp. in Quebec, is how heavily the universities are subsidized. When I went to U in the late 70s and early 80s, I believe for every dollar I paid in tuition, the Quebec Government put in about $7.

    Sadly, I perceive my alma mater, Concordia, as one of the universities that was taking on bodies to get that "$7". I knew I wanted to study in Commerce, and it was known Concordia had a better program than world-renowned McGill. Many students in Commerce chose McGill because of the name.

    I know one fellow who was borderline that was accepted at Concordia, but naturally failed in his first year. His parents passed away a few years ago, and after living at home on welfare into his 50s, he had to be moved to a group home because he simply could not take care of himself. I'm certainly not mentioning this to ridicule my former neighbour, but to show he was just a "$7" body.

    All those years ago when I was at Concordia, I was hearing stories of students not finishing CEGEP (missing by a course of two) being admitted to university. Supposedly the universities were starting to crack down on this practice, but it appears this was just lip service. The per-body subsidies were just too good to pass up. They would have accepted corpses if they could draw a subsidy!!

    I agree it's pathetic to simply take on bodies without without high school leaving diplomas and DECs from CEGEP. These students end up in blow-off programs that will lead to NOTHING and gives them a false sense of hope and belief. Filling the faculties with bodies is more often than not short-term gains for long-term pains.

    I studied accounting at Concordia, a bean-counters factory, but it was a challenging program, and a good third of those who entered accunting, didn't finish or changed majors.

    As I wrote a few blogs ago, where one earns a degree may hekp in the beginning, but after about 5 years or so of experience, it's what you show you can do that will more likely determine your future than where you got your piece of sheepskin.

    My son is in Grade 11 in Ontario, so he has a year to go, but he is involved in community projects, and is in the Air Cadets. He'll be a s sergeant in a few days after just two years because he is dedicated to the Cadets. He asks for, and is assuming leadership roles, and a reward for his hard work is going to be building a small airplane with 39 others who were accepted to a program that only accepts 20 Air Cadets and 20 civilian high school students for all of Ontario.

    He's a very good student, but not in general a "top 10%", save a couple of areas where he was tested and scored high, but I'm hopeful these activities that are building his character and leadership skills will enable him to get into one of the better schools when he graduates. I don't think grades alone are the major determinant anymore about acceptance, but the individual as a whole. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, just like most other parents!

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    1. I wish good luck to your son, Saugua.

      What is he looking forward to? I have a friend who was succesful at getting hired as a pilot in the Royal Canadian Air Force after being part of the Air Cadets. The military paid the cost of his education. With the new fighter jets from Harper incomming, I'm sure there will be many opportunities in the RCAF in the comming years.

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    2. Thank you. He has a couple of years to decide which direction he'll go. My dentist's office assistant talked to me at length about options, including a fully paid-for education. It's awfully difficult at 16 to decide what one wants to do. I think this program he'll be taking at Fanshawe College in London this summer (and he'll get a high school credit for this) I think will at least in part be a determinant. It's aircraft assembly, but it's also the working as a team aspect that will be invaluable experience.

      Thinking further about this topic, one program that has manifested since I went to U that I'm a big advocate for is co-op, i.e., alternating semesters of study and work. It's a longer process, but the good part of it is the students are getting practical experience while studying, making them less likely to get trapped in that vicious Catch 22 cycle of no experience, no job...no job, no experience. Co-op is something that was missed in the Editor's topic this time.

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  2. I can completely agree with the editor on this one.

    Interestingly, degree inflation differences among the anglophone and the francophone system have caused me dilemmas before. While the anglophone system now requires a Ph.D. as well as two years after the doctorate in order to be eligible for a job, the francophone system only requires the Master's. This is because the influx of international students increases competition in the anglophone system whereas the lower education of francophones means that the best candidates available are Master's. My anglophone collegues view it as a defect, but I can see nothing but sense in saving the taxpayers 4-6 years of education that would be better served by on-the-job experience.

    Result : while I've been slaving away in school, my Quebecker friend's already been a professional for years. I console myself with the knowledge that I will not be limited to jobs within Quebec unlike him, but it is still a bitter pill to swallow.

    On the other hand, I'm told there are now about 6-8 spots open in my profession in Quebec, whereas in english canada one can be lucky to see a position open every other month. Usually one has to cast his nets wider, to the US or to Australia, to be insured of employment.

    I thought my story would illustrate the editor's point quite well.

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    1. Yannick,

      Out of curiosity, what is your profession?

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    2. As it is a very small field, I'd rather keep my relative anonymity if you don't mind. I can say that it's a professional field in science/technologies.

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    3. Yannick,

      You do not have to reveal the field if you do not want to, but since you mentioned that you have a PhD, and need one to practice, are you a researcher?

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    4. The answer to that is very complicated and up for debate.

      The money we're paid is for actual, technical, 9-5 work, but it is expected that we will contribute to the field by research outside of work hours. Many express concerns that as the field settles, we will increasingly be replaced by qualified technicians which cost much less to the employer; therefore we ought to emphasize the research component of our profession.

      Others take the opposite view, and say that we should prepare people for the technical duties ahead of them. Quebec is taking this approach, and their research output is comparatively low compared to the ROC. Personally I'm not very enthused by research.

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  3. I think it's sad that at a time when university enrollment is increasing percentage-wise, the less value a university degree has. I see so many hopeful faces going to university as aspiring teachers, only to realise there isn't any work when it's too late to get the $60 000 you spent on university back. I value education highly, but unless you come from an extremely wealthy family, make sure your degree will lead to a career.

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    1. I agree 100%. Some people waste 10 years of education to get a bachelor's in basket weaving (admittedly an exaggeration on my part) and then work at Starbuck's? They expect taxpayers to pay for that? What a waste! Better to get an education that will lead to a career. If you want a university education just for you personal enjoyment and not useful in a career, don't expect others to pay for it. Pay for it 100% out of your own pocket.

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    2. *sp: just for your...not you...didn't press hard enough on the 'r' key :)

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  4. "The problem with Quebec is that we're always having the wrong conversation. "

    The most intelligent thing I've heard in a while !!!
    Keep up he good work Ed.

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  5. "Still today, professional degrees, be it medicine, science, computer science, pharmacology, engineering, law etc. are pretty much a guaranteed ticket to success."

    Computer Science? Editor, what world are you living in? With all the outsourcing going on, programmers are disposable commodities. In corporations, we are referred to as "resources".

    Kids, do yourselves a favor. Do not go into comp sci. As someone with MSc in Comp Sci I implore you to stay away.

    I heard electricians make good money and work independently. Now, that's a career worth looking into.

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    1. True dat ...
      Programmers, sys admins, security technicians...you name it, we are all resources. With big companies like CSC and IBM we're all just a disposable mass. You work for them at the lowest income in IT field. All big companies outsource to them, where we're supposed o work on a plantation...
      If I end up in a position to work for an outsourcing company then I'll become a farmer for sure.

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    2. I've got news for you: We absolutely need farmers!!!

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    3. Why wait start your farming plan now!

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    4. Money ... unfortunately. And not just farming, but ... growing bees. When I was young my father was a bee keeper. And I kinda learned stuff from him.
      Everyday I wonder why the hell am I condemned to sit on a chair in the office for 8h ...

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    5. adski,

      I read you. Outsourcing practice does ruin IT profession in North America. In the company I work with, they have outsourcing office in India. In calculating project cost, one Indian resource costs 1/3 of local. While Indian resource can not have physical presence, that problem is greatly alleviated with the available communication technology. As long as the resources in India are willing to work on Eastern Time schedule, there is little lost in service quality between them and locals.

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    6. Normal Bee Keeping job: Here's something found it in one search: Exciting opportunity for a Beekeeping Instructor - Fairview (AB)
      Grande Prairie Regional College has an exciting opportunity for a Beekeeping Instructor to teach courses in the recently announced Commercial Beekeeping program located in Fairview, Alberta (the heart of the Peace River region in northwestern Alberta). This program includes classroom study combined with a hands-on practicum. For more information visit our website at www.gprc.ab.ca/careers

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    7. Like Troy, my employer, a major Canadian public company, also let go most of its IT staff outsourcing to India. Some technicians are kept in-house to handle problems that cannot be solved overseas. French speakers are spared as we still have French speaking support staff in Quebec, so speaking French can be a saviour of sorts.

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  6. Problems with contractors is the anglo-saxon mentality that is bad to do minimal work around the house but to pay for that.

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    1. Most house construction work is permitted by the municipality even if you think your an expert you pay for the signature of a trades person

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  7. I think you're perfectly right. We need to produce less University graduates, and make sure the ones we have are the best of the best. My position, however, is that such a system requires little or no tuition. Merit and merit only should matter. With current enrollment, free university would cost around 1% of the Quebec budget. Lower enrollments would probably compensate for the increased cost of higher-end education, leading to a similar figure. At any rate, we can afford it. It's an investment that's well worth it.

    How many people do I hear saying they went for political science or classical studies out of not knowing what they wanted to study... We need to end that. I have nothing against these branches. Out of Cégep, in fact, I hesitated between classical studies and biochemistry, mind you ! Just a few people per cohort are needed in these branches, however. A few, motivated, and bright people who are really passionate about their field of study. Besides, this will ensure that we can pay decently the people we do train in those fields.

    Make no mistake, though, the same phenomenon is observed to some extent in other, non liberal arts/social science fields. The sciences have the same problem. The guys we train in physics have a hard time finding a job in their field, especially if they want to stay in Québec. Graduates with a bachelor's in biochem for example (my field) end up doing tech jobs, if they're lucky. Most, though, end up doing grad studies, because there isn't so many other options. And then, what happens with all these science Ph. D. graduates ? They move on doing post-docs after post-docs to try to earn a faculty position. Most fail in doing so. Those who can't become professors, but still have impressive credentials, line up industry positions, with some luck. Others change gears, or become eternal post-docs. Don't take me wrong, I think these eternal post-docs play an important role. They're excellent researchers. However we don't give them the positions and salaries that they should get. Ergo, maybe we should produce less of them... Unless we want Québec to become a huge pool of cheap HQP.

    There's another thing that people need to understand. The point of University is not to help you get a job, and is not meant to train people in doing a job. A University is a community of intellectuals that gather to learn, conserve, transmit and produce knowledge. It provides an environment where you can acquire the knowledge and intellectual tools required to produce meaningful thoughts about the field you study in. Period. Professional degrees (medicine, pharmacy, law, accounting, engineering...) are really exceptions more than the rule. People in the 60s have been misled by a Québec government desperate to raise the number of university graduates, which back then was extremely low. The government then claimed "Qui s'instruit, s'enrichi"... and quebeckers now want to answer "Pas nécessairement", and the survey you cite, Editor, illustrates that fact. Indeed, you don't need a university degree to succeed in life. There's several other paths. As a society, we need to channel the right people down the right paths to success.

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    1. IBM is full of electrical engineers who work IT/programming jobs. Engineering jobs resemble IT jobs more and more, so engineering gets off-shored easily as well.

      As for social sciences, these disciplines are dying, and it's unfortunate. For example, University of Albany has recently closed its Classics Dept due to lack of funding. Potential (corporate) sponsors are not too keen on funding disciplines from which they won't be able to extract profit, and which may even be subversive because someone with an MBA will fit into the system perfectly and will even greatly contribute to it by managing "resources" in Asia, but someone with a Classics degree will actually be able to think outside the box and would undoubtedly question the system, so why produce these kinds of people anyways? It's not in the interest of anyone who profits from the current system. Better churn out system managers with MBAs who will then work for us not only hard, but with great enthusiasm.

      The Anglo-Saxon economic system is a sad reality. And this is the kind of system that today is considered not only normal, but even natural. People around the world have been fooled, for those world leaders who weren't and who wavered in their commitment, there is always a bribe, or the CIA if the bribe doesn't work, or a "humanitarian intervention" by US military if the CIA-engineered coup fails...So there are ways at the disposal of the enlightened free-marketers to talk "sense" into the skeptics.

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    2. I've written the following before, but it applies here:
      "Those who can, do;
      those who can't, teach;
      those who can't teach, teach teachers;
      those who can't teach teachers, write books."
      -Stephen P. Robbins, PhD, Professor Emeritus, Johns Hopkins U.
      and my former Professor of Management at Concurdia U.

      Dr. Robbins has written many, many textbooks on management theory and practice, one of the most authored in North America. I quoted exactly what he wrote on our course syllibus as I found his creative extension of that old cliché profound and often true.

      Going back to the 1970s, there were too many artsy-fartsy programs then that either led to a career in the wonderful world of the mcjob, taxi driving, car washing, or for the few that developed adequate academic prowess, becoming a teacher (think Michael Ignatieff).

      Others, like Pierre Elliott Trudeau, his even cockier son, Ignatieff and his former good friend, Bob Rae, devolved into politics. Most of them have done a wonderful job practically running our economy into the ground with deficit financing, the politician's favourite pasttime of the 1980s and beyond, with a short break in the latter 1990s. Seems the more they spend time clicking the keyboard, the less they are in touch with the general population. Ahhh...the wonderful world of Psychology, Philosophy, Anthropology, Sociology and all the other "ologies" and "ographies". Spits of jobs in those fields here and there, mostly teaching others to prepare for jobs that don't exist...

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    3. So all those people who "write books" are at the bottom of the pile. Yet, "Dr. Robbins has written many, many textbooks".

      Go figure.

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  8. Other thoughts about the student conflict, and producing lots of idle educated people.

    The current situation in Québec is reminiscent, I find, of the Taiping rebellion in China. For millennia, as you may know, China had a system of contests and exams, through which the imperial government recruited its workforce. The higher you ranked during the exam, the higher you got into the hierarchy. Success in the exams meant climbing the social ladder. As a consequence, a great many people studied to become mandarins. Many, if not most, failed to rank high enough to earn a position. The country thus produced more educated people than it needed. Large numbers of educated but idle people often leads to rebellion, because you end up with a lot of frustrated people endowed with knowledge, the capacity to articulate ideas ad lay them on paper, and lots of time to examine the wrongs of the system. Then put these people together, they'll share they analyses, get really hyped up, and they'll revolt. John George Lambton, lord Durham, produced a similar analysis of the situation in Lower Canada in his infamous report about the 1837-38 rebellion. I don't remember the text by heart, and certainly some aspects of the problem clearly escaped him, but he was right in saying that the Patriots were really a bunch of idle, frustrated but educated young men, with nothing to do but to stir up the (real) problems of their society. Now, the number of educated francophones in Lower Canada back then would seem low to today's standards, but it was higher than what the agrarian, sparsely populated and ethnically divided Lower Canada of the 1830s could use. Yet, modern-day Québec, and Canada as a whole, benefited in the long run from the troubles of 1837-38. I think it is fair to say that we owe large parts of our democracy to the aftermath of these events. I think it contributed a lot to the appearance of a canadian national sentiment that crossed the french-english language divide. The ideas that it seeded and fought for still animate people from various political backgrounds in Québec, as well as in Canada (not so much the Harper conservatives, though, I'm afraid). Could the current situation plant simmilar seeds in modern Québec ? Maybe.

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    1. Not sure if the conditions in Quebec have any but surface similarities to the old Chinese educational model. Francophone university graduates are rapidly absorbed by the public sector that treats them with the utmost in preferential employment opportunities.. I've met many PhD and MA cab drivers, waiters, landscapers, construction workers from the ethnic community (myself included), but I've yet to encounter a Francophone in the same position. On the contrary, I know of high school principals without the required Education degree, and anglophones who hold all certifications including multiple Majors who schlep from school to school as substitutes trying to earn a living.

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    2. Just to add that the educational field is also rapidly dwindling with the constant school closures in the anglophone community, dumping more over educated people into the local wal marts and other dead end jobs while liberal arts 'career' students from uqam find their way to cushy jobs for the provincial government and other unilingual francophone enterprises. Like everything else in Quebec, the system is not stacked against the educated but against those with the wrong last name.

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  9. "I've got news for you: We absolutely need farmers!!!"

    Yeah, because the Quebecois countryside is waiting with open arms and laying down palms amidst cries of 'Hosanna' for the Pakistani, Chinese, Greek, and all other minorities looking to buy land and get into farming.... ;)

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    1. Actually, Steven Harper promotes businesses bringing in temporary workers who he has now allowed to work at lower wages than Canadians. We don't have to worry about Canadians of any origins getting these type of jobs. Harper has made sure of that.

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    2. It's not that I am saying that these jobs are to be coveted by Canadians, just that I don't believe we should be allowing in temporary workers who are paid a wage lower than us. It will put more downward pressure on our wages. Thanks alot, Harper-bot.

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  10. When I was in high school in the 80s, I contemplated to go to post-secondary studies in (West) Germany. So this is what I learned about their system at that time. It may only be pertinent to Engineering, what I aspired then.

    High school graduates had two options, basically. They could go to trade school (Fachhochschule) to learn trade skills. The length of study was around four years and the graduates received a Diplom (FH). The graduates from this program were those ready to work with practical skills.

    The other option is to go to University or Technische Hochschulen. Here they studied more conceptual, high-level subjects, and graduates were prepared to continue and pursue doctorate degree. The length of this program was 5 - 6 years. The degree was Diplom (Univ.), or for Engineers it was Dipl.-Ing. While it was a first degree, that degree was equivalent with Master in Anglo-Saxon system.

    I think it is too bad that continental Europe abandoned their system and converted to Anglo-Saxon in the early 2000s. I do not know if Germany still has two-tiered higher education system for high school graduates.

    I think the problem as the Editor presents can be attributed to some extent to the globalization of American system of Education. Their education system is that liberal, the United States is home of the best, as well as the worst, universities in the world. On one hand there are the Ivy League, MIT, Stanford, NWU and on the other hands there are plenty of diploma mills and for-profit universities. Compare that with Europe where the number of universities are rather limited and controlled.

    But hey, education is now commodity. It is getting to be that way in the world. It is simply supply and demand. With the increase of educational institution and media of delivery, supply is abundant. While the supply increases, the price (in terms of value) decreases. And therefore the value of university degree is not as high as it was before.

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    1. We used to have tiered high-school - you could go in the academic branch, the trades branch, or the hilariously sexist "home economics" branch.

      But then lazy bums kept going into trades because it was less homework than the academic branch, and some eggheads over at the ministry thought that this would hurt their chances to go to university later on. So, we got forced into a cookie-cutter model, and now we wait until university to start diversifying.

      Maybe one day they'll streamline university too and we can only diversify at the Ph.D. level.

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  11. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/8492894/French-radio-stations-fall-victim-to-anglophone-artists.html

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    1. La globalization... :(

      Mais puis-je demander ce que ça a à voir avec les universités au Québec et ailleurs?

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  12. La globalization?

    La mondialisation

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    1. Désolé, je perds mon français car j'ai peu d'occasions à parler à des francophones ici dans l'Ouest.

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  13. La fête de la femme à Paul Desmarais

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6cZeJWemM8Y

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    1. It was the UN that also declared Quebec's Bill 101 and its treatment of its minorities second only to South African Apartheid years ago. When an unlawful action from the government affects the super class of Quebec, 101 apologists seem to remember the UN. If Bill 78 is draconian and violates civil rights, then so is Bill 101. Shame the Charter has no application in Quebec, isn't it?
      For post after post on this blog the fact that we had been deprived of this safety net was ignored. No big deal, right Yannick? So what if one language has to be smaller than the other... to paraphrase you. I guess human rights only matter when the right kind of human beings are being deprived of them.

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    2. That's quite the passionate rant.

      I did not say any of those things, I was just sharing the news which I thought were relevant to the issue at hand. I'm not even particularly against bill 78, except that I think that it's politically damaging to the Liberals, and that it is too stringeant.

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    3. 'I understand that it's insulting to be forced to place your own language smaller and beneath the French on public signeage, but it's not exactly Nazi Germany. Anglos have freedom to vote, freedom to move, freedom to write, freedom to present themselves at the elections'

      Like I said, it was paraphrased. You just downplayed the experience of having ones rights revoked. Francophone students have these same rights, so what's the big deal if some of their freedom is curtailed right? We get fined for speaking or posting in English if it's not at the right place and time, but you fished out the UN article over Bill 78 ignoring Quebec's past history with the UN concerning the treatment of minorities in the province.

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    4. If Bill 78 goes too far, then how would you describe legislation that calls for the provision of a linguistic police force that fines people for speaking one of the official languages of this country, or any language for that matter??!!! Legislation that has led to a ridiculous amount of school closures and enforces a system of assimilation or removal from the province. There's a dishonesty to criticizing one while the hundred foot tree trunk remains firmly lodged in the eye of Quebec, its electorate and its apologists.

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    5. "how would you describe legislation that calls for the provision of a linguistic police force that fines people for speaking one of the official languages of this country, or any language for that matter??!!!"

      I would describe it as not quite Nazi Germany, which is the point I was making in the post you're quoting.

      You need concentration camps and a gestapo before you start making comparisons to Nazi Germany. What language you have to put first on your signs doesn't quite cut it.

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    6. "You need concentration camps and a gestapo before you start making comparisons to Nazi Germany"

      There were no concentration camps or a Gestapo in Italy when Mussolini came to power, would you say that the ideology was any less fascist than Germany? When a political system bases itself on race, culture and language and treats members of its society as perpetual outsiders, curtailing their rights and lives in favour of the majority population they represent, then they have far too much in common with Nazi Germany and the politics of the early 20th century. Jews weren't thrown into the ovens in the early 30s, they were 'encouraged' to leave the country under the pressure of slowly having their rights as German citizens removed, being pointed out by the political establishment as 'others' that live among them (does les autres ring a bell?), and being used as scapegoats for the political and economic troubles of the time.
      These are not accidental similarities. It's a concerted and multi decade long effort on the part of successive Quebecois governments to create these conditions and rid themselves of the 'otherness' among them. Just scroll down to the bottom of these comments to see the 'hop on the 401' instructions that are a part of daily life for us if we only critique this system.
      The Nazi movement began as an outsiders party that gained ground in part through coercion and by using fear as a tool to silence their enemies. The Brownshirts were infamous for these practices. I suggest you take a peek at the Quebec Militia and check out some of their parades in the boonies of Quebec where they garner much of their support. Maybe you should also show up to an anti-101 rally to see their tactics in person where they show up in combat fatigues and proceed to threaten the lives of the organizer and his family. The fact of the matter is that modern Quebec has more in common with the fascist political systems of the 20s and 30s than any other political system in the 'western' world.

      Delete
    7. "curtailing their rights and lives in favour of the majority population they represent"

      Eeeh. That's my problem with your position right here. There are few rights that are curtailed - and then not by much.

      No one stops anglophones from speaking english, publishing an english press, operating english televisions. There are no limitations on votes. No one is stopping anglophones from organizing themselves into a political party if they so wish. You have all the rights of your francophone equivalents in the ROC, except for the language of signs. I understand that the provision that one language has to be larger is insulting. It's also insulting to have it compared to the totalitarian regimes of WW2.

      There's many problems in Quebec. The mobs that throw dog turds at that corner store in Verdun because the owner didn't speak french, the milice Québecoise you're talking about (not familiar with them - why doesn't this stuff get reported on?) are despicable. But that's still not on the same scale as the Nazis or the Fascists.

      When you make those comparisons, you are just discrediting yourself to others because they won't take your hyperboles seriously.

      Delete
    8. 'No one stops anglophones from speaking english'

      Yes they do. I suggest you read through Bill 101. For example, it's against the law for individuals to speak English at their place of employment. A business can be subject to fines if an employee answers the phone with a 'hello' instead of a 'bonjour'. They are also subject to fines if they greet customers in English instead of French.
      Anglophone schools are forced to close in a concentrated effort to eradicate the language, limit it or force us away. Just last year, eleven of them went the way of the dodo. Our streets have been renamed and no longer reflect our historical presence in the province. By anyone's standards, that's ethnic cleansing.

      'There are no limitations on votes'

      True but too bad the system is hopelessly stacked against these votes leaving us with absolutely no political representation. There are millions of us here, how many representatives can you point out in the national assembly that stand against Bill 101?

      'You have all the rights of your francophone equivalents in the ROC,'

      A Francophone in the ROC is free to chose the language of instruction of their child. We do not have the same freedom. We can't even home school our children in the language of our choice unless we meet the stringent criteria of 101.

      'It's also insulting to have it compared to the totalitarian regimes of WW2'

      How would you describe a condition of having a vote that is an irrelevancy, a language that is being smothered by the political system and the electorate that supports it, and a permanent branding as an autre? We are people without voice, without the inherent and lawful rights of this country, and without the freedom to live our lives as any other Canadian in this country, including Francophones. Quebec is democratic only for the assimilated and for those with the correct last name. For the rest of us Quebec represents an as of yet unpunished hate crime.

      'But that's still not on the same scale as the Nazis or the Fascists'

      The fascists didn't seize power in their countries and build concentration camps the very next day. Both Hitler and Mussolini graced the cover of Time magazine as saviours of their nations well before WW2 broke out. Their political systems found international support and similar movements even started in the countries that eventually went to war with them. The similarities between the treatment of the unwanted people of Europe in the 20s and 30s and modern Quebec are striking and deeply disturbing.

      '(not familiar with them - why doesn't this stuff get reported on?)'

      Good question! It doesn't even make the English media. When the militia show up in combat fatigues at an anti 101 rally, the protesters are shown but not those that threaten them. Canada has had a long and shameful history of appeasement when it comes to Quebec. Close to a million anglophones and allophones left the province in three decades under conditions that they considered intolerable and threatening. That makes it the largest migration of a people in North America since the forced relocations of the First Nations yet it escapes the radar of educational institutions, the media and the political system. Not only are we a group without a political voice but also one that is being removed from history as if we never existed.

      Delete
    9. "The fascists didn't seize power in their countries and build concentration camps the very next day."

      Actually in the case of the Nazis they did seize power and built concentration camps the very next day. It was very, very fast. It took less than a year after Hitler was named Chancellor that all other political parties had been disbanded and the Nazis were the sole holder of power in Parliament. The death of Hidenburg also helped because Hitler then consolidated himself as both Chancellor and President, which took away the last institution that might have resisted him.

      I'm not sure about the churches and the unions, but IIRC it took less than two years for those to have been entirely taken over by the Nazis as well, dissenters thrown in prison or in concentration camps. It's stupefying the speed at which the Nazis managed to wrest every single institution of the country, even to the point of vacations, movies, theatres, songs, literature, education, unions, industry, farming, and appoint Nazis who had complete control over them.

      I'll comment on the rest of the post later.

      Delete
    10. 'Actually in the case of the Nazis they did seize power and built concentration camps the very next day.'

      The camps built early during the nazi regime were prisons, not liquidation stations for a targeted ethnicity. It took a few years of vilification before ethnic minorities such as Jews and gypsies started being rounded up in large groups and sent to the ovens. Would you say that as long as they weren't being gathered and shipped off to slavery and death, that their diminishment as human beings and the removal of their rights wasn't so bad because after all, they could just move? You wouldn't be the only one. It was the stance held by many Europeans and Americans who were aware of the situation. Real Mathieu planted bombs as late as the early 2000s but escaped imprisonment in Quebec. A known terrorist, like those of the German Crystal Night, operate beyond the law without fear of incarceration.

      'It's stupefying the speed at which the Nazis managed to wrest every single institution of the country, even to the point of vacations, movies, theatres, songs, literature, education, unions, industry, farming, and appoint Nazis who had complete control over them.'

      How long did it take Quebec to do the very same things? History books in the public school system have been rewritten to reflect the views of the nationalists; unions in Quebec are dominated by the bigots that support 101; English music has become taboo at nationalist celebrations and we've even seen demonstrations against Paul Mccartney; movies such as the rocket richard and the rest of the Quebecois garbage film industry Canadian tax payers fund, consistently vilify Anglophones and perpetuate myths against them. Really, pretty much everything you've mentioned so far seems like a blueprint for modern Quebec. Just replace nazi with pquiste.

      Delete
    11. Wrong, about the homeschooling. Homeschoolers who do not have a certificate of eligibility can homeschool their children in the language of their choice and can choose to be evaluated by either an English or French school board. It's written in the ministry's most recent guidelines on homeschooling. I know, because we are homeschoolers without a certificate of eligibility, homeschooling in English.

      Delete
    12. "Would you say that as long as they weren't being gathered and shipped off to slavery and death, that their diminishment as human beings and the removal of their rights wasn't so bad because after all, they could just move?"

      No, I'm more than satisfied by the arbitrary imprisonment of the dissenters, the removal of the right to own a business worth less than 40 000 marks, the removal of the right to choose your job, the removal of the right to be part of an union, the removal of the right to be part of a club that did not obtain formal approval from the Nazi Party, the removal of the right of jews to operate businesses or be in charge of companies, the... well you get the idea. All of which makes having to put some French on your signs like chump change, and all of which happened pre-War.

      "History books in the public school system have been rewritten to reflect the views of the nationalists"

      I hear this all the time, but no example is ever given. You have specific, factually untrue statements you want to use to support your point? Because otherwise I'm just not taking you seriously based on your propensity to hyperbole.

      "English music has become taboo at nationalist celebrations"

      Unfortunately for your rant the ban on english music at the St-Jean Baptiste last year was quickly overturned by cooler, less racist minds. You'll have to find something else. :(

      First time I hear about protests against Paul McCartney though.

      "Yes they do. I suggest you read through Bill 101. For example, it's against the law for individuals to speak English at their place of employment. A business can be subject to fines if an employee answers the phone with a 'hello' instead of a 'bonjour'. They are also subject to fines if they greet customers in English instead of French."

      It's illegal for two anglophones to speak english to each other on the job? I thought the right to work in French was guaranteed in Bill 101, never heard anything about the other stuff. I can't find any evidence to support your point either, so I'm going to have to ask you to show your work.

      Now I know that companies may not refuse service in French, but that's totally different from what you claim...

      "A Francophone in the ROC is free to chose the language of instruction of their child."

      So can an Anglophone in Quebec, provided he is from Canada. I agree that anglophones from other countries should have the right to send their children to the english schools, it would encourage immigration from the USA.

      "Anglophone schools are forced to close in a concentrated effort to eradicate the language, limit it or force us away. Just last year, eleven of them went the way of the dodo. Our streets have been renamed and no longer reflect our historical presence in the province. By anyone's standards, that's ethnic cleansing."

      I understand someone with your mindframe might see conspiracies everywhere, but is it not possible that the schools are closing from want of students?

      As for the renaming of the streets, it is indeed regrettable and something I've spoken against before on this blog. Unfortunately it sometimes happens in the rest of Canada in formerly french places too, though not nearly as badly. If you go on 17th avenue in Calgary, there are a number of plaques in front of a church that explain how the whole area used to be a French settlement in the late 19th century, but there isn't a single french name to be found in the whole agglomeration. Even the church and hospital were renamed.

      Delete
    13. 'All of which makes having to put some French on your signs like chump change, and all of which happened pre-War.'

      So it's a game of degrees for you. It's not yet as bad as Hitler's Germany so it should be tolerated even if the motivation and the policies bear so many similarities. Contemporaries of fascist Europe such as Groulx, a rabid anti Semite and anti everyone not white, French and Catholic is honoured as a founding mind of modern Quebec and with street signs and a metro station, and it doesn't make anyone bat an eye. Of course, the argument is that the same has occurred elsewhere in the anglophone community. The key difference is that if such a figure is given historical status elsewhere, its based on other actions and the modern version of that area no longer reflects this intolerance. In Quebec it's all reversed. We have become Groulx's vision of intolerance.

      'the removal of the right to own a business worth less than 40 000 marks'

      If a business owner with a possibility of growth is limited by legislation that forces them to function in French exclusively if they have 50 or more employees, wouldn't you consider that a limiting factor? It targets a specific group of the Quebec community and has at its root the ideology that drove German intolerance.

      'I hear this all the time, but no example is ever given'

      These are far too many to list but if you click the 'older posts' tab on this blog you'll find many of them presented here. But ask yourself where the racism and the intolerance comes from. Are human beings born with a hate of a particular group, or are they indoctrinated in it?

      'Unfortunately for your rant the ban on english music at the St-Jean Baptiste last year was quickly overturned by cooler, less racist minds.'

      St Jean is the day where Anglophones join their Francophone neighbours to share in celebration of their common history in a jovial and cordial environment.... ha ha ha. Come on man, you really need to come here and attend one of the uber race fests. The fact that language and race are an issue that requires cooler heads to prevail in 2011 tells you that there's something seriously fucking wrong in this province.

      'So can an Anglophone in Quebec, provided he is from Canada'

      Isn't an anglophone from Quebec already from Canada? Just because Quebecers suffer from fevered imaginary nation syndrome, it doesn't change the fact that this land is Canadian and that all persons born here are Canadian citizens. As such, they should be accorded all the rights and privileges of every Canadian, and not be relegated to a lesser status by a group that represents a regional majority.

      'but is it not possible that the schools are closing from want of students?'

      The lack of students is enforced by Bill 101. If it were to be removed, the English Montreal School Board will have to start turning away students. The same can be seen in the CEGEP system which has become over competitive from the amount of applicants, many of them French, that seek an English education denied to them in elementary and high school.

      'If you go on 17th avenue in Calgary, there are a number of plaques in front of a church that explain how the whole area used to be a French settlement in the late 19th century, but there isn't a single french name to be found in the whole agglomeration. Even the church and hospital were renamed.'

      I'm curious, did this occur before or after the nationalists in Quebec started placing bombs in English neighbourhoods? I used to disagree with the concept of tit for tat, but after a lifetime as a lesser Canadian, I say fuck it, fight fire with fire.

      ' illegal for two anglophones to speak english to each other on the job? I thought the right to work in French was guaranteed in Bill 101'

      It's all right here: http://www.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/

      Delete
    14. >a question of degree

      It's not a question of degree. It's a question of rights. I think that having to post signs in french is no more intolerant than banning nudity in public advertising, or forcing manufacturers to list ingredients on food items. You think it's akin to Auschwitz. We are not going to agree on this.

      >Limiting factor

      Well, no, not really. It's Quebec ; it should not be particularly difficult to find enough bilingual employees to run the business in French. Of course your opposition is not based on the difficulty, but on the legitimacy of such a requirement. I myself do not hold an opinion on the matter.

      >St-Jean Baptiste

      You've artfully changed your point. Originally you were saying that english music was banned at the St-Jean. When that wasn't the case, you changed it to be that anglophones are not welcome to the St-Jean. It has to be ungenuine argumentation if the facts of the matter have no bearing on your opinion or your argumentation.

      >From Canada

      Well like I said, I agree that the mother tongue provision should apply to Quebec. But again you've avoided the point - the rights in Quebec and in the ROC are different for a few details only when it comes to schools. Namely, the mother tongue requirement is not enough in Quebec but is in the ROC. The other to get your child educated in the minority language is if one of the parent was educated in that language in Canada, or if that child was educated in that languaga in Canada, and that's true for either linguistic minorities. Such people are called "ayant-droit".

      >After the nationalists

      Much before, in the start of the 20th century. Which makes it ok, because "people were racist back then", but the same act commited today is an atrocity that should be denounced by the UN I'm sure.

      >It's all right here

      Except that it isn't. Like I said, there is nothing in Bill 101 (which I read) that forbids two anglophones from speaking english to each other. So you will have to show your work. That means you go and quote the exact sections of the bill that say what you say it does, or what you say is not true.

      The bill forbids forcing employees to communicate in a language other than French if they don't want to, though. Are you hyperbolizing from the latter to the former?

      Delete
  15. "It was the UN that also declared Quebec's Bill 101 and its treatment of its minorities second only to South African Apartheid years ago."

    I escaped from Quebec! You can too. http://goo.gl/maps/rRjv

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Post the same link for those wishing to take the 20 or the 40 back to QC, or maybe the 15N to St Adele. I'm shooting for a bilingual and independent Montreal.

      Delete
    2. let's do it and let's not let morons like seppie get in our way saying "desole, mais vous allez etre decu" because he is the one who is going to be "DECU"!

      Delete
  16. Replies
    1. This was meant as a reply to Anonymous Wednesday, May 30, 2012 6:01:00 PM EDT

      Delete
    2. Non,je trouve simplement que la richesse est plutôt mal répartie en ce bas monde...Et vous?

      Delete
    3. So what are you saying, that the Desmarais should have less and you should have more? They should work hard and give their money to you? Or they should simply give it all away to charity and live a humble life to make the Quebec communists....sorry, the Quebec socialists happy? They should pay more taxes, they should not have a big house, no big parties, everyone has to be the same poor Quebecor.

      Delete
  17. This just in.

    Jonah Hill gets honored by the SSJB.

    http://www.listal.com/viewimage/482394

    http://www.ssjb.com/contenu/recipiendaire-du-prix-calixia-lavallee-alain-lefevre-28-mai-2012

    ReplyDelete
  18. "...wishing to take the 20 or the 40 back to QC..."

    Désolé de vous apprendre que Montréal est la métropole du Québec et que le français est la langue officielle de celle-ci...Youhouuu!Ici la terre...

    ReplyDelete
  19. "I'm shooting for a bilingual and independent Montreal"

    Johnny Charest est votre seul espoir...Malheureusement.

    ReplyDelete
  20. 'Désolé de vous apprendre que Montréal est la métropole du Québec et que le français est la langue officielle de celle-ci...'

    True, but by that token Quebec is Canada's land and belongs to all Canadians. Since this notion is not respected in Quebec where Farancophones make up the majority of the electorate, why should it be respected in and around Montreal where we are the majority? Montreal is a Quebec metropolis that functions almost exclusively on anglophone and allophone economic initiative. We meet the necessary criteria to have our own province free of Quebecois debt, racism, and the imposed suspension of our Canadian rights. It's a goal we can and will work for and I don't see how you can possibly stop us. Best of luck in Blainville.

    ReplyDelete
  21. We meet the necessary criteria to have our own province free of Quebecois debt, racism, and the imposed suspension of our Canadian rights.

    Vous en avez déjà 9 :)

    ReplyDelete
  22. 'Vous en avez déjà 9'

    No, I was born here. My home is here, my friends and family are here. Just remember that whatever goes for Quebecois nationalism, goes for us too. I will not move, I will not respect 101 and I will fight to regain my status as a Canadian. Besides, when we seperate, it'll ease your path to soverignty. Nobody in Canada gives a shit about anything outside Montreal anyway. We are Montreal.

    ReplyDelete
  23. "I will not move, I will not respect 101 and I will fight to regain my status as a Canadian"

    J'admire votre courage et je vous souhaite les meilleures des chances mais n'oubliez pas que plusieurs avant vous se sont cassé les dents sur nos lois.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Les négociations entre Québec et les étudiants sont rompues

    http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/dossiers/conflit-etudiant/201205/31/01-4530477-les-negociations-entre-quebec-et-les-etudiants-sont-rompues.php

    Fallait s'y attendre

    ReplyDelete
  25. Un homme sage qui mérite notre admiration

    "I have decided to step away from all this English / French group and the battle in an effort to try and bring about less stress, less strain and to hopefully stop causing myself to have such a negative perception of life here in Quebec. Although the language laws suck, I love my home and I love my people. I am ashamed of the language laws and the militants and politicians who cannot see the racism or discrimination behind it but I will no longer let it lead my life."

    Michael Bradley

    ReplyDelete
  26. 'Un homme sage qui mérite notre admiration'

    Ha ha ha ha, poor brow beaten, tired Michael Bradley. I'll see you at the barricades pal. The days of polite and quiet Montrealers who had their neighbourhoods bombed and cowered in their homes are long gone.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Acceptez votre statut de minorité,vous vous faites du mal pour rien.Concentrez plutôt vos énergies à la maîtrise d'une autre langue,ce qui est à mon avis,beaucoup plus constructif et moins dommageable pour votre santé intellectuelle et physique.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Quelle intolerance..."

      "Ha ha ha ha, poor brow beaten, tired Michael Bradley. I'll see you at the barricades pal. The days of polite and quiet Montrealers who had their neighbourhoods bombed and cowered in their homes are long gone."

      Quelle intolerance...Effectivement.

      Delete
    2. L'un n'excuse pas l'autre. Tenez-vous vraiment à gagner la compétition du pire trou-de-cul?

      Delete
  28. "The days of polite and quiet Montrealers who had their neighbourhoods bombed and cowered in their homes are long gone"

    Tant mieux!Nous commencions à vous trouver un peu mous :)

    ReplyDelete
  29. Non, the French (Quebecoisfranglish) are the the minority in this country. Learn another language, certainly, but choose something other than the folk lore Joual, which is on life support. Try espagnol, mandarin, german or another which has some significance in the world, Other than in Quebec, where laws of language force the application of French at the expense of minorities within this small and evener smaller thinking, "distink" part of Canada.

    ReplyDelete
  30. 'Nous commencions à vous trouver un peu mous :)'

    Well any time you slip into this perception just take a drive by Val Cartier to see the Maple Leaf a short (tank) drive away from your 'national' assembly.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. F35's with anglo pilots will be much more effective than tanks.

      Delete
    2. C'est pas les canayens qui ont réussi à rester en panne avec des sous-marins Britanniques usagés?4 rafiots au coût de 610 Millions qui prenaient l'eau et qui ont presque tué une équipe de morons canadiens (anglos).Les américains rient encore...

      Delete
    3. Triste affaire, cette histoire des sous-marins. Même les Britanniques rient de nous. Ça fait dur.

      Delete
    4. Avec raison,je me demande même si c'est sécuritaire de laisser des F-35 dans les mains d'individus aussi incompétents.

      Delete
    5. J'ai un ami Acadien qui est pilote d'avion de chasse... N'ayez crainte, ils seront en bonne mains ;)

      Delete
  31. "Tant mieux!Nous commencions à vous trouver un peu mous"

    Vous oubliez 1970 et le acte du guerre. Pensez vous encore avec ca. LOL

    Quebec is nothing but a group of ants which has to be stepped on from time to time to remind them of their actual status.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Em... Some of us ants actually work hard, make money, speak both official languages, and believe in making this city, province, and country a better place to live.

      Think about that before you paint us all with the same brush.

      Delete
  32. Then you should do something about those who paint you in a bad color. (mafia, language zealots, corrupt politicians etc.) Desole, mais c'est vrais, n'est pas? I really couldn't care less about votre maitrise des deux langues officiele. In reality there is only one language used from sea to sea and we both know what that one is...don't we. Now grow some gonads and get off the dole ..ou comme ils dits ..le BS.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Evidently you suffer from an overgeneralization complex. That, along with your off-putting written tone and horrid attempt at French highlight how seriously your comments deserve to be taken.

      Our mob isn't really any more or less... active... than that of any major city.
      Our language zealots get a charge out of speaking for a majority they don't represent.
      And corrupt politicians?... as if we have a monopoly on those?!

      Besides, how could we all be on the dole/welfare if at least some of us don't actually get out, work, and pay taxes? Demonstrably fallacious.

      Delete
    2. Are you an immigrant Apparatchik...? If so, from where. Your response clearly indicates you take the comments somewhat seriously.

      "Horrid attempt at French", is that anyway to encourage someone to learn le langue d'amour" Hypocrite that you are.

      On the rest, how about a 13 to 15% raise in your taxes so you could pay your share for yourself and others in Quebec. Isn't that a small price for the quality of life you have in your new land?

      You have "demonstrably" demonstrated one sure thing, that being your insecurity.

      Delete
    3. I am a mutt of French-Canadian, English-Canadian, and what apparently you would call "immigrant" stock. I take the comments I read at face value.

      My comment about your horrid attempt at French stands. It isn't by caricaturing a language and its speakers, and especially not while wrapping such blanket statements in an even larger insult quilt that you'll gain any respect from me or many other (staunch federalists) participants here.

      I happen to find it disgusting that I live in one of the highest-taxed jurisdictions on the continent and yet don't feel like the "services" I'm getting are worth what I'm paying them. I'm not a fan of government bloat either, if that's what you're wondering.

      Delete
  33. "F35's with anglo pilots..."

    Dangereux effectivement mais peut-être pas pour les raisons que vous croyez,surtout si c'est un moron de la royal canadian air farce.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

      Delete
    2. Is there a Quebecois air force. No, didn't think so other than those that fly blue and white paper airplaines "sur le fete Baptiste" LOL

      Delete
    3. Is there an air force in Quebec other than those that fly "les avions de papier bleu et blanc" sur the fete Jean. LOL

      Delete
  34. News from London

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEYX6TRtjcI

    ReplyDelete
  35. Yawwn...100 or so protesters who have nothing more valuable to do with their lives. Read the comments!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's not a question of number of people who protest. Normally when it's question of Quebec in London it's AGAINST Quebec.

      With this ‪London Casserole March in Solidarity with Quebec Students‬, it's FOR Quebec! I'm flabbergasted!

      Delete
  36. "Students said they proposed a tuition freeze for two years and accused the government of being more concerned with political optics than with finding a solution. However, they said they’re willing to go back to the negotiating table whenever the government wants."

    What?!!! I mean what?!

    http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/06/01/jean-charest-calls-on-quebecs-silent-majority-to-express-itself-as-tuition-talks-fail/

    ReplyDelete
  37. We insult each other back and forth and back again.

    Let's talk fears

    The French Canadian culture must not be eaten up by Anglo tendency to slay a less than perfect work mate C'mon Anglos, you know It! we come from crafty bullies.

    Each side has to get back to respecting each other, unbeknownst to the media.... this is a provincial hillbilly battle that has victims cast far and wide on each side.

    It's wrong I take pleasure in my French fellow Canadian's discomfort whilst trying to find a spot in Alberta. Do I help? Non! I carry the flame of a slight from 40 years ago.

    It's wrong that French Quebecer's are virtually silent when public English is snuffed by the sign army they have their own fire.

    We don't stand up for each other for the past 43 years there has been a deep divide with tit for tat

    The solution lies in Quebec community spirit! getting both sides together to show how you can achieve great social justice for both sides. We are in a creative generation.

    This next 10 years may see a Unified Quebec with all its people bitching about the same thing,laughing at the same bad politics, getting out the rain gear and marching for each others causes. It's the only way Quebec be allowed to sit at the big people table.

    Begin rebuilding before Harper does it, he will! Quebec is resource RICH...I can feel it. He's a power junkie of the worst sort, after he's done we won't know Our Quebec she will have Tap lines to all her resources feeding fucking Toronto stock brokers

    ReplyDelete
  38. Some people saying Education Loan Guarantee is not required is this true or not pls give detail and mail me.....

    ReplyDelete
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    ReplyDelete