Friday, April 20, 2012

Are Anglos Ready to Push Back?

They say that every man has a breaking point and I'm wondering if Anglos in Quebec are getting ready to push back against the rising tide of intolerance.

The naked ethnocentric attack on Anglos in L'acualite magizine has anglos finally asking themselves if there is anything they can do, short of suicide, that would satisfy the language racists who are now demanding that not only must we speak French, but embrace and promote French culture as well.

For the very first time, the Montreal Gazette is publishing articles that would have been considered heretical and dangerous, a short while ago.

Don McPherson's Op-Ed piece was so defiant, you'd think his piece was a product of this blog, instead of the Montreal Gazette, better known for appeasement than defiance.
“I call them “the new angryphones.” I’ve heard from quite a few of them in the past couple of months, since I wrote what some of them call “that column,” about the social acceptability of anglo-bashing in Quebec.
This new genus of angryphone is younger than the ones who attended partitionist meetings after the sovereignists’ near-victory in the 1995 referendum. Many of them are baby boomers who heard John F. Kennedy tell Americans to ask themselves what they could do for their country, and the answer Pierre Trudeau gave English Canadians for theirs: learn French.
So, out of the idealism of the 1960s, long before Bill 101, they did what speakers of the world’s dominant language normally don’t do: they began to learn another language, and to have it taught to their children. And when others fled the first Parti Québécois government, they stayed; they bet their futures, and those of their children, on Quebec.
So they’re still here to read and hear what’s said about them by Québécois politicians, media commentators and entertainers, and they’re fluent enough in French to understand it. They can read L’actualité’s “dossier” on them on the magazine’s website and decide for themselves whether it’s journalism or something closer to high-class hate literature on the glossy paper of a quality magazine.
With age and experience, the idealism of their youth has given way to realism. They know they have been left politically voiceless, not by a lack of the right leadership or representation, but by fear of political separation.
So they – we – realize that conditions for our community are not likely to improve....” Read the rest of the story
Less than a week later, the Montreal Gazette printed this Op-Ed piece by Robert Libman, a gentleman and one of the calmest and most level-headed politicians I ever dealt with.
“Unfortunately, the L’actualité package has turned up the heat under a linguistic pot that has been reheated in recent months by some French-language media outlets. Snippets of language-related information based on false assumptions are being sewn together to give the impression of an irreversible trend unfavourable to French. The conclusion that L’actualité draws is that the French language is in grave danger in Montreal – and that the anglophone community is gleefully unsupportive of efforts to stem this irreversible tide of anglicization.
Not only is this not true, but it is like blaming someone who has just been kicked and beaten by a bully for not empathizing with the bully because he dented his steel-toe boots.
We don’t have to apologize for anything. On the contrary, the impact of Quebec’s French Language Charter (Bill 101) on the anglophone community of Quebec has been unjustly severe.” Read the rest of the story
Language paranoia is setting new heights, with the latest action, a Société Saint-Jean-Baptiste attack on stores displaying the tiniest of hand-painted English signs.
TVA proudly dubbed the operation " Chasse aux commerces déliquants" (Hunting down delinquent businesses")

Two young language punks set upon a bunch of small businesses in the very English and ethnic neighborhoods of NDG and Cote-de-Neiges in Montreal, scaring one fruit store into taking down a copy of an advertisement from a local English newspaper that it had placed in its windows.

And so the latest proud gambit of these intolerants, is the terrorizing of small micro businesses that cater to an English or ethnic clientele, run by first generation immigrants who are trying to make a living cutting hair, selling fruits and vegetables or small electronics.
All of these merchants have a couple of things in common, most importantly...working, instead of being on the dole.

Many of theses immigrants, come from countries where repression was real and danger a way of life.
Being cornered and denounced by a couple of  punks may not be a big deal to you or me, but to them it is a frightening affair.

I was sad to see that one of the vigilantes was a young Black man, who somehow felt it necessary to roam the neighborhood of Cote-de-Neiges, (where many Blacks live) not unlike a Kapo, denouncing stores owned by fellow Blacks.
Such is the brainwashing that youngsters receive in school where ethnics can actually be fooled into believing that they are considered equals by ethnocentrics.

Perhaps when Master Virtue applies for his first job in Herouxville, he'll find out exactly what ethnocentrism means.

And before I get a slew of comments telling me how open and embracing Quebec society is towards ethnics, especially Blacks, read about another case of police brutality against a Black couple for the crime of 'driving while Black.'

All these stories have a common thread, Black people stopped in the street or in their car on the flimsiest excuse. When they object and refuse to cooperate, they are hammered with thousands of dollars in fines. For every case like the one here, there must be twenty that go unreported.

Please read the story and watch the video report, it is a must.  HERE 

Now if Master Virtue thinks that his biggest problem in life is the fact that  there are English signs up in Anglo neighborhoods, he should read this.
It's a story about how Blacks and minorities are treated in the Montreal offices of the Public Service.
"An anonymous letter shattered what had started as a normal Monday morning at the office for “Joel,” a union organizer at the Montreal office of the Public Service Alliance of Canada.
“SPEAK NEGER BLACK,” it started.
Copies of the racist screed – obtained by The Montreal  Gazette – were placed in the mail slots of the office’s only two black employees on Feb. 21." Link
"Luc said no one in the office said anything when a union member who frequently visited the office remarked that he got his job because he is black.
When staff dine out together, black employees are often not included in the conversation, he said.
"You come to realize that you're not part of the gang and you never will be," Luc said.
Other employees frequently badmouth anglophones and other minorities at work, Luc said. They say: "Those têtes carrées. Why should we have to follow their directives?"
Luc said that colleagues often criticize employment equity programs for favouring minorities. "They say, 'Why give jobs to blacks?'"
Luc said one staff member called Arab union members "dogs" and said of the executive of a union: "I'm going to kick out those damn Arabs!"   Link

I hope young Master Virtue learns the facts of life sooner than later.

At any rate, a while back, sovereigntists rightfully mocked the meager turnout at Hugo Shebbeare's  anti-Bill 101 rally.
Truthfully it wasn't much of a success, other than the fact of the wildly out of proportion reaction by militant sovereigntists.
It was a good effort on Hugo's behalf, but truthfully Anglos are too comfortable in their ghetto to care.
We have our own hospitals, our own schools, our own television and media, our own cities run by Anglos in English and most of these assets are as good or better than what is on the other side.

Until now, we've been too comfortable to rock the boat.

I think Hugo was a bit ahead of the times, that's all. There is a shifting of the sands.

Once again, I watched that great rant by a fictional newsman Howard Beal, fed up with life in that great movie, 'Network.' I posted the video last Sunday. Watch it here

In the video, the newscaster rants that the world is going crazy, but as long as it stays out of his own living room, he'd be fine.

But when the craziness of the world enters his living room, he rants that it's time to get 'Mad as Hell"

Are Anglos finally realizing that the racist language rhetoric that has always been part of the militant French first movement is now entering their living room and that there is no use cooperating?

Readers, I want to be clear.
I have no problem with measures protecting French and promoting its use.
But nobody has ever made a cogent argument that has convinced me that an English sign in a predominantly English neighborhood is a threat.
Nobody has ever convinced me that the English minority of Quebec, celebrating their language and culture is a threat as well.

Those who wish to wipe out English in the public domain are ethnocentrics, nothing less than racist haters who should be denounced.

When language cops start making the rounds with a ticket book in hand, I think that there'll be a reaction..

Woe is to the language inspector who wanders into an Anglo enclave unescorted by the police. I'm not calling for violence, but readers should be reminded of the 'Shawville' experience;
"In 1999, a posse of militant Shawville English-speakers chased a provincial “language police” inspector out of town during a showdown over French on business signs."  Link

I think that French language militants are pushing for this.  Confrontation with 'les maudits anglais' is what they want.
Their plan is to prod and poke anglos until there is a violent reaction.
I think they are going to get it.

When a full scale language war breaks out, they believe it will pave the way for independence as Quebecers are forced to choose sides.

They might be right.

204 comments:

  1. Max Virtue? Virtue n'est-il pas le mot anglais (qui l'a volé du français au moyen-âge) voulant dire vertu?
    Il porte bien son nom ce jeune homme. C'est vertueux de déposer un si grand nombre de plaintes.

    En plus il est noir alors vous pouvez pas dire que notre glorieuse Société Saint-Jean-Baptiste c'est un genre de Ku Klux Klan.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Mr. Sauga to the Anonymous Cretin above:Friday, April 20, 2012 at 12:38:00 AM EDT

      You wrote it - I didn't!

      Delete
    2. La Société Saint-Jean-Baptiste est plus ouverte aux autres que n'importe quel club de juifs, Sauga.
      Même un juif pourrait s'y joindre.

      Delete
    3. The Societe Johnny Baptist was officially anti-Semitic during the Second World War.

      Delete
  2. Une nouvelle réalité qui va changer la perception de l'anglicisation pour la majorité: l'arrivée d'immigrants anglophiles en région.

    Servis en anglais au McDonald's à Sept-Îles
    http://fr.canoe.ca/infos/quebeccanada/archives/2012/04/20120419-162242.html

    Maintenant les Québécois en région vont se sentir concernés et vont voter en conséquence.
    Au revoir parti libéral anglicisateur et sa ministre de l'immigration anglophone.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Now your picking on the poor Phillipinos who serve you your daily "grande Mac avec fromage". Big Macbigot.

      Delete
    2. Asking to be served in your own language, which is official and the language of the local majority, is bigotry?

      What about people who don't speak English? Why can't the have the right to be served in the only language they know?

      The right to order a Big Mac in French at McDonald's should be written in the first article of Bill 202.

      Delete
    3. "Une nouvelle réalité qui va changer la perception de l'anglicisation pour la majorité: l'arrivée d'immigrants anglophiles en région.

      Servis en anglais au McDonald's à Sept-Îles
      http://fr.canoe.ca/infos/quebeccanada/archives/2012/04/20120419-162242.html

      Maintenant les Québécois en région vont se sentir concernés et vont voter en conséquence.
      Au revoir parti libéral anglicisateur et sa ministre de l'immigration anglophone"

      I told you last week, little insignificant nitwit: chickens are coming home to roost. You'd better start taking English courses... Bye bye Bil 101: ash to ash, dust to dust

      WA

      Delete
    4. ...and, yes, anglophones, allophones and immigrants have been bouncing back for quite long time. So, double bye bye Bill 101. As our glorious Latins said, Sit tibi (=Bill 101) terra levis

      WA

      Delete
    5. You don't get it. This kind of news only helps bill 101 (and helps to justify a stronger law) and sovereignty and makes people more anti-immigration.

      An area went from having no Filipinos to having just a few and many are shocked and it's talked about on TV and you think they would let immigrants invade their regions, especially pro-English immigrants without voting against it? Imagine the controversy if they moved in in significant numbers.

      This is exactly what they needed to make people aware of the threat of anglicisation and vote for the PQ (which is already leading in the polls anyway) and then perhaps for independence. Now they won't think it's just a Montreal issue (language and immigration) that has been around since forever if they see them in their own region.

      Delete
    6. AnonymousApr 19, 2012 09:38 PM is reposting the same link that he posted before… sh*t-disturb much?

      The article clearly states that these Filipinos were specifically sought out by the owner of the restaurant via an international hiring programme because he was unable to find anyone willing to work at the McDonald’s in Sept-Îles. They are taking French classes and still the locals aren’t happy. It’s disgraceful that this is the welcome they receive. I too have lived and worked in other countries with a poor grasp of the local language (though I always try to learn) and never have I witnessed such intolerance and insecurity as we have here. Shame on Quebec!

      Delete
    7. The very reason for Sept-Îles’ growth was largely due to the building of the Quebec North Shore and Labrador Railway by those evil anglophones. The Clarke Brothers of Toronto and New York founded nearby Clarke City and helped to build the local economy by building a paper mill and hydroelectric factory there. In 1970, the city was amalgamated by Sept-Îles. Have they forgotten their history? As usual, assimilation is perfectly fine if it concerns anglos but not by francos, who won’t even buy a hamburger if their delicate ears get accosted by that impure tongue.

      Delete
    8. @The Cat, very well said. These Quebecois nationalists forget where they are living. The place that they call Quebec, and the we call Canada, is an ancient land that has seen the comings and goings of different peoples throughout the millennia. The only constant here has been change and it is that comfort with change and ambiguity (i.e. grey areas) that has defined this great country. Canada is all about accepting the "other" and embracing him/her. Think about how the French were greeted by the Natives. They saw an opportunity for trade and the French saw an opportunity to increase their survival prospects and their comfort.

      Canada has always been about accepting new people onto the land and this is where the Quebec Nationalists prove that they are nothing but old school ethno-nationalists who would be more comfortable in countries like France or Germany than with the rest of us here in "the new world".

      If I go into a store and someone does not speak English, I am happy to switch to French. If they don't speak French or English, I'm happy to work with them to communicate - however is easiest! This is the Canadian way!

      These Nationalists have spent so much time imagining the future that they have forgotten their past. The river flows both ways and they would be helped to learn that!

      Delete
  3. Ask me if I care if those xeonphobic bastards are run out of the English speaking neighbourhoods, Quebec, or the face of the Earth.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Non, ils ne seront pas forcés en dehors du Québec parce que la majorité du Québec ne ressemble en rien au minuscule Shawville.

      Pourquoi un article si violent, éditeur?
      Vous semblez rêver d'une guerre. Vous êtes fou.
      Voyez le genre de commentaires que ça donne?
      Évidemment quand ça ne parle pas de nettoyage ethnique d'anglophones vous ne les censurez pas.

      Delete
    2. Before the first crétin xenophobe writes that it's easy for someone living outside Quebec to dare the morons... well...it is, and it still works for me. There is less French here (not none, and that's fine), but they don't dare shove their French down our throats...or else...too, there is a lot less in taxes here. There is no perfection anywhere, but Ontario is far, far closer to it than Quebec will ever be.

      OK, xenophobic crétins, do your worst! I dare ya!!!

      Delete
    3. C'est vous le xénophobe avec votre racisme anti-ceux-qui-respectent-la-loi-sur-l'affichage.

      The law is the law. Vous le comprenez, ça?

      Vous pouvez ne pas aimer la loi mais vous devez la respecter quand même.

      Delete
    4. So hm ... you think the apartheid was fair? It was a "law" after all.

      Delete
    5. Anon @ 9:53

      Et qui est le xenophone. Je penser vous avec votre lois sur l'affichage, n'est pas.

      The Nazi brown shirts passed laws as well. Fortunately, the world did not agree with these laws. Un peu tard pour des juifs.

      Delete
    6. @ PHIL
      "you think the apartheid was fair? It was a "law" after all."

      Apartheid = law passed by a government NOT elected by the MAJORITY of the population. The black majority wasn't allowed to vote so it wasn't a legitimate law unlike Bill 101.

      Bill 101 = law passed by a provincial government elected by the province's electorate, which includes non-Francophones who have the same right to vote as everybody else.
      A provincial government recognized as legitimate by the federal government.

      You'd think the federal government would do something for you if it were so bad.

      Nothing is preventing you from electing a federal government with a different opinion when it comes to language laws.
      Back when Canada wasn't officially bilingual, we accepted it and obeyed the law so why can't you accept the current situation?
      Without English Canada also voting for the Liberals official bilingualism would have not been possible.
      You can say Canada is officially bilingual just because of Quebec but really it's your own fault if you don't elect a pro-unilingualism government. You could do it, most of Canada is English-speaking.
      I guess they aren't against bilingualism that much, then.
      As a minority in this country, we would have to accept it just like the anglophone minority in this province has to accept laws passed by a government elected by the provincial majority.
      It's a provincial law, nothing to do with federal laws so just because Canada is officially bilingual doesn't mean Quebec has to be bilingual when it comes to provincial matters.

      The law is the law.

      Obey the law and everything will be fine.

      Refusing to obey the law = unlawful = wrong.

      I'm a good person so I always obey the law.

      Delete
    7. The federal government hasn't done much about Quebec's racist language laws (with the exception of some rulings by the Supreme Court) because Quebec uses the threat of separation as blackmail.

      The anti-black Jim Crow laws in the southern United States were laws too, supported by the white majority, but that doesn't mean they were fair, reasonable or justified.

      If ever there was a case for civil disobedience, Bill 101 is it.

      Delete
    8. @AnonymousApr 20, 2012 12:27 AM

      First of all, you should adopt a handle. It facilitates conversation.

      I appreciate your comments. You are absolutely right that Bill 101 is a democratic law in all the best senses of the word. As a matter of fact, I doubt I'd be able to find a provision in the law that I'd be able to call illegal. I agree with the spirit of the law, which in my understanding is to promote and protect French in Quebec.

      What I don't agree with is how this is used as some kind of a sledgehammer against minorities in Quebec. I have no problem with a French state, French signs, French government workers, French, French, French. I do have a problem with this idea that the only way for French to survive is to a) get rid of other language groups, and b) to force French upon this who do not wish to use it. This is counter-productive in that the language police mentality puts a serious damper on our collective wealth-creating ability. Wealth can be created in any language. Taxes can be paid in any language. To point b), I would add that trying to force a language and a culture on people will never yield the desired results. How could it? If there is anything I expect Nationalists to understand it's that culture and language are such personal attachments that people will go to great lengths to avoid losing them. Think about it: if you're willing to sacrifice something as important as wealth creation to protect French, wouldn't newcomers and others be willing to defy some law to protect their language and culture? And what would you do if there was widespread civil disobedience with regards to law 101? Would the riot police come out? Would there be arrests? Would you have the police start shooting?

      Come on, you know as well as I do that the best way to protect and promote the French language in Quebec is to make it more appealing. Let people choose to use French, not because they have to, but because they want to. Take me for example: I'm on this site and others ranting and raving daily against what I perceive as injustices against my community (the Anglo community) in Quebec. But you know what? At the end of the day, I still love it here. I love the French fact and it hurts me to see that perhaps my presence is simply not wanted. It hurts that after everything we've been through, my very presence in this province is considered an affront. I would want nothing more than to be accepted into the fold here in Quebec but it is damned near impossible. I have tried to get a job speaking French but it's always the same old story: "You speak French well, but maybe not well enough". How am I or anyone who is not a native French speaker supposed to integrate when we are rejected as a matter of course? Think about it. I think the answer to my question is at the heart of what it will take to truly secure French over the long haul in Canada.

      Finally, you talk a pretty big game about laws enacted by governments who were elected by a majority of the people in their jurisdiction. How do you feel about the partition resolutions passed by multiple municipalities in Quebec? If Quebec were to become independent, would you respect those laws? They would seem to fit what you've defined as democratic laws...

      Delete
  4. "I was sad to see that one of the vigilantes was a young Black man, who somehow felt it necessary to roam the neighborhood of Cote-de-Neiges, (where many Blacks live) not unlike a Kapo, denouncing stores owned by fellow Blacks." - Editor

    It's not about race, it's about language. Most black people in Quebec aren't anglophones and they have the right to care about the French language and to file complaints. It's perfectly legal to do so. Even the Liberal party which you probably vote for encourages this.

    ReplyDelete
  5. "I'm not calling for violence, but readers should be reminded of the 'Shawville' experience"

    And you should be reminded of the police, which can be called in case of violence.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. La même police qui utilise l'expression têtes carrées tel que décrit dans l'article.

      Moi si j'étais un anglo frustré qui refuse de respecter les lois lingustiques, j'y penserais à deux fois avant de toucher à un inspecteur sans défense qui ne fait que faire son travail tel que mandaté par le gouvernement.

      Delete
    2. Just like the language zealots who smeared shit on the poor immigrant's depanneur. Sure thing. I have not heard of any prosecutions or arrests. Seulement en Quebec ;)

      Delete
    3. That depanneur owner must have developed such warm and fuzzy feelings towards French now, following that incident. Way to promote respect towards French, JPQ!

      Delete
    4. By the way, the depanneur owner does speak French, just not fluently.

      Do you know if you go to NYC or Toronto into a corner store headed by an immigrant, sometimes you will also find that they don't speak English fluently because they are just trying to get by. So, in Quebec, it has nothing to do with not respecting the French language, it has more to do with people struggling to make a living.

      Delete
    5. I know! Korean corner stores are ubiquitous across North America and anglos have been accustomed for ages to being served often with little more than a "hello" and "thank you". The archetype of newcomers trying to establish a foothold here is the fabled Chinese laundry, which has virtually disappeared and been replaced by depanneurs as the kind of job that people with limited language skills flock to. Francos should be happy that they can’t get served properly in their language... that’s what happens all over the rest of the developed world too! Stop prattling about it being a “lack of respect”, for Pete’s sake! So insecure!

      Delete
    6. You know, there's a place in Chinatown that I go to get my hair cut. Normally, I would have to pay 15$ or so + tax + tip =20$. However, this places charges 6$, 7$, and 9$ for different things (I don't know what the different things are because the business card is in Chinese characters) but it seems her mostly Chinese customers (which I am not) give her 6$.

      Now, I know the Chinese lady knows "Hello" and "Bonjour" and "Byebye" and sometimes she says "you cut?" and laughs and motions to the the front of my hair and she knows "shorter" but besides that, I don't know if she can speak either language. And guess what? I don't care. She is just trying to make a living, she does as good or a better job than when I pay 20 bucks for a haircut and instead I pay 8$ (6$+2$ tip because I think 8 is a lucky number for Chinese people and means something like eternity).

      I don't tell her "This is Canada. We speak English here." I don't tell her, "This is Quebec. We speak French here." I just live and let live and I am happier for it (and 12$ richer)

      Last time I left, I said "sheeesheee" because I think that means "Thank you" and she put her hands together and said "sheeesheee" back and seemed happy that I made that effort.

      People should remember to be human before anything else.

      Delete
  6. No where else in Canada is there laws concerning language law but in Quebec. No Where else.

    Perhaps, it is time that Quebec becomes their own country. Anglos and Allos can decide if they want the continued ostricization by the language zealots in Quebec, sanctioned by the very government they support with their tax dollars, or to leave this backwater bigotted province for far greener pastures.

    Quebec has been a proverbial thorn in the side for the ROC...for as long as I can remember and that , is a long time. Quebec has resulted in the Official Language Act in Canada as appeasment, where we are all to respect the French factor (read JOUAL) while all the time the Quebecois discriminate against the anglo/allo minority in Quebec, sanctioned by government policy and mandate. Ridiculous and one sided. Just look at the ratio of anglos in the civil service of Quebec with regards to percentage of population. You do the math.

    Not too mention the 8 billion dollars plus in equalization payments freely given to the backslider province. La Belle Province equates to the Province de BS. Let them leave with their 248 billion dollar debt with their share of the national debt of nearly 20% of 550 billion. A net debt of 350 billion for less than 7 million people as I am sure the anglo/allo element would run for their lives. (Maybe JF Lisee and Curzi would donate their life savings to the cause...NOT)

    Sortez s'il vous plait et bonne chance. Merci.

    Comme pour moi. Le Quebec = le merde dans le seine du Canada.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "No where else in Canada is there laws concerning language law but in Quebec. No Where else."

      Maybe not now but there used to be. They don't really need language laws anymore in Manitoba and Ontario to assimilate the small minorities left there, they know they are screwed anyway in such an English environment but they used to be stronger minorities.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manitoba_Schools_Question
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_17

      Quebec doesn't prevent actual Canadian-born anglophones from going to English schools and the immigrants that are forbidden to go to (public) English schools often end up becoming fluent in English anyway and even speak English in the schoolyard in Montreal schools.

      Quebec's language laws don't cause assimilation of English-speakers whereas English Canada's language laws caused the assimilation of many French-speakers there.

      Delete
    2. Those laws were rescinded many years ago. When was Bill 101 enacted and to this day enforced?

      They become fluent in English for obvious reasons.

      No assimilation...linguistic genocide is what the language zealots want in Quebec. Read the editors posts, again. There are no language laws other than the OL
      A (failed and bad idea) outside of Quebec where the English language is rendered to second class status and you have language police enforcing one language at the expense of another.

      Just sayin.

      Delete
    3. "Quebec has resulted in the Official Language Act in Canada as appeasment, where we are all to respect the French factor (read JOUAL)"

      Joual? You don't know anything about the French language and what joual actually is, do you? Based on "le merde dans le seine" I would say you aren't fluent at all.
      The language on signs, papers, in manuals, on boxes, etc. is the same language as the one found in France. It's French, not joual. The same words, spelled the same way. It's formal French. Anyone from France can read it without even knowing it wasn't written by someone in France.
      Do you think the Canadian constitution is written in English and in joual? It's written in French amd anyone anywhere in the world who knows French can read it just like they can read Quebec newspapers.
      Joual = spoken slang, just like there is slang in English and not everyone uses it.
      We speak French, only with a different accent just like you speak English with an accent that is not the same as the accents found in England.
      Even in France there are various accents. In Quebec too, for that matter.
      Why is it only ok to have different English accents and what's so hard to understand about this reality when it comes to French?
      Ask any linguist. Quebec French is French just like Canadian or American English is English.
      The main difference, just like when comparing those English accents to English English, is moslty in the pronounciation so it's absurd to speak of this when it comes to written text. Anybody can read it with any accent but it's the exact same words spelled the same way except for rare exceptions but then again North American English has words not used in England and vice versa.

      I'm sick of this whole joual conspiracy theory (as in "this whole time I thought they spoke French but they speak something called joual" even though we refer to our language as français/French and call something else joual so you're using the wrong name for the wrong thing) just because you tried to learn French and heard it spoken by French people and then expected us to have the same accent.
      When I learned American English and first heard Scottish people speak, I had a hard time understanding their accent at first but I never thought it wasn't English.

      Our language is classified as French by linguists, books and organisations around the world. It's not a different language. It's not a creole. It's not a pidgin.
      You'd think they would say it's not French if it weren't French. They have no interest in hiding the truth.
      I don't even speak joual myself but I guess according to you I do.
      It's not joual. Joual is optional slang that not everybody speaks. We were speaking the same language we speak today (French) centuries before the word joual even existed. Joual is a working-class sociolect that originated in Montreal and has always been stigmatized. Stigmatized by who? Us French-speakers because there is the French we speak and then there is joual.

      Delete
    4. But wait, if this whole time I didn't speak French and spoke something else, how come I was able to understand movies and TV shows in Parisian French before I even attended school?
      I only knew the language my parents taught me.
      I didn't need to learn French as a second language.
      Perhaps because my mother tongue is French after all.

      Delete
    5. Must have hit a nerve. You know the old axiom. Those that protest the loudest are those that have something to hide. :):) Ouais, t'se que chus ak raison...fak fa toe dos. ;)

      Delete
    6. @anom 12:09

      Is that why they have to subtitle some Quebecois productions for release in France (in french nontheless). Must be their mother tongue! :)

      Delete
    7. After seeing the same old crap about joual written on this blog a thousand times, I figured I would explain the linguistic situation but believe what you want to believe and I will continue to speak French, not joual and write French using the same words and the same spelling as a Frenchman would use.
      Go to France with the Canadian constitution and Canadian cereal boxes and ask a Frenchman to read them and ask him if it's written in his language and see how your joual conspiracy is ridiculous.
      Speaking of ridiculous, we write the French word for color the same way they do over there whereas you anglos write color or colour depending on where in the world you live.

      Cette phrase serait exactement la même en français de France. Utilisez un traducteur si vous ne comprenez pas.

      Delete
    8. "Is that why they have to subtitle some Quebecois productions for release in France (in french nontheless). Must be their mother tongue! :)"

      My point still stands because if we don't speak French, how come we naturally understand French people?
      They understand us too, it's just that they aren't as familiar with our accent as we are with them.
      Just like Scottish people not being perfectly understood by Americans but on the other hand they understand Americans perfectly because they are familiar with their accent on TV. Why don't you be consistent and say Scots don't speak English?

      When our singers go to France they don't need subtitles including when they are not singing and speaking to the audience. We even have comedians that go over there and are understood, people get their jokes.
      The subtitles are only needed for TV shows that use a lot of slang that they are not familiar with.
      Normal dialogue they can understand perfectly or else how come we can have conversations with French tourists and French immigrants here without subtitles (good luck with that in person) or changing our accent to imitate theirs. How come they reply and clearly understand what we say based on their replies? You'd think we would know by now if they didn't understand us. Some may make fun of it but they still understand it.

      All I see is a bunch of anglos who aren't fluent in French (anglos in Quebec that are fluent in French learn it from us - their accent is close to ours and not that of France - and yet they say it's French they speak) saying we don't speak French while actual French people don't say the same thing. They always say they come here precisely because they can speak their native language here.

      In Flanders (Dutch-speaking part of Belgium) they also add subtitles when exporting TV shows to the Netherlands which is right next to them. Yet their language is still considered Dutch and they live right next to them.
      Of course after being separated for centuries it's only normal we don't sound exactly the same as people in France but you yourself don't sound like the Queen.
      Hurr durr you don't really speak English I guess.

      Delete
    9. A video is worth a thousand words:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ghs2Z8cJVDE

      Look, it's our premier Jean Charest speaking with his Quebec accent* to a Frenchman and this also aired in France, Belgium and Switzerland (hence the logo TV5MONDE France Belgique Suisse) without subtitles and the interviewer, with his Parisian accent**, clearly understands everything.

      *Ask any bilingual anglo (so you can't say they are biased) on this blog to confirm this if you don't believe me. It's the same accent he has here. He doesn't change it when in France.
      **You can also ask any bilingual anglo if that's a Parisian accent or a Quebec accent.

      Delete
    10. I speak english.
      I speak standard french. (For instance : cette femme me plaît à mort.)
      I speak "joual". (For instance : je trippe su' elle.)
      I even understand parisian french. (For instance : je kiffe grave cette meuf.)

      Does it make me quadrilingual?

      Delete
    11. I don't think it's fair to critize people for their accent. I don't understand Scotish people without giving special attention to what they are saying and trying to read their lips. Doesn't mean they aren't speaking English. Anyway, people will often change the way they speak according to their audience.

      Insulting someone for the way they speak does not add anything to the argument. It's like two kids fighting : "Your mom's ugly" "Ya well your mom's fat"

      Delete
    12. To the first respondant on this thread last night @ 11:23pm: Interestingly, you're wrong about there being no other jurisdiction with French language battles. How about Howard Galganov's continuing fight with the Township of Russell, and other jurisdictions in Eastern Ontario and Dieppe, New Brunswick with obligatory bilingual sign laws?

      One vindictive use of language legislation is in the former Soviet Republic, Latvia. Only Latvian may be posted on signs in Latvia, a vindictive law against their former rule by the Russians ethnics of the former Soviet Union and against remaining ethnic Russians. Too, there was an anti-anything-but-Afrikaans movement known as the AWB in the 1970s that gained traction in the 80s until it was finally squelched in the 90s.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrikaner_Weerstandsbeweging

      It too was a party founded and based on hatred and vindictiveness, and only the Afrikaans language would have been tolerated in their jurisdiction had they succeeded in establishing one. Old-stock Afrikaaners would have come first, all others would be second class citizens.

      So there you have it. Vindictive xenophobic nationalism is nothing new, and Quebec is just another chapter in the book. When will it ever end?

      Delete
    13. A video is worth a thousand words:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPenHx5o4p4&feature=related

      Get it right

      Delete
    14. Nothing wrong with the Latvians protecting their language. If you are against this, you are for the assimilation to Russian, which is what would happen without their laws. Russian is a widely spoken language and isn't threatened, unlike Latvian.
      Also, without language laws, few Russians would bother learning Latvian.
      So you see, language laws make them more open to their environment and helps them understand their neighbors.

      Howard Galganov is an intolerant man who would prefer seeing English-only signs everywhere which is why he's against obligatory bilingualism. He knows very well that English-speakers would put up signs in English only even in towns with a French majority and the average French-speaker would put up bilingual signs (with English probably coming first to please anglophones) and in the unlikely event a francophone would have signs in French-only, Galganov's followers would be the first to complain that there is no English on the signs and that it's unfair for anglophones.

      Eastern Ontario has a few small communities were there are high percentages of French-speakers, some with a majority even (and it's been this way before Galganov's grandparents set foot in Canada) and then Galganov arrived and he's so intolerant that he couldn't accept this and wants to turn them into English-speakers only he tries to be subtle about it. He wants Ontario to be totally English. Quasi-totally-English isn't English enough for him. It's never English enough for him.

      He's a horrible person.

      Delete
    15. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

      Delete
    16. "Russian is a widely spoken language and isn't threatened, unlike Latvian."

      French is a widely spoken language and isn't threatened either. It's spoken in many countries around the world. The French were just as imperialistic as the Russians.

      I'm not surprised that Francophones in Ontario and New Brunswick would be forcing French onto signs, while English is being banned or supressed in Quebec.

      Howard Galganov is fighting for freedom of expression and has stated that he has no problem with people posting French-only signs in eastern Ontario. A Francophone has even joined him in his legal action. He is a much better person than the French language supremacists in Quebec.

      Delete
    17. Ohhhhh....crap! Here we go with languages needing protection. Sorry, no, languages don't need protection. Languages come and go based on need. I'm an Ashkenazic Jew (i.e., Jews of Central and Eastern Europe as opposed to Sephardic Jews of the Mediterranean region) and Yiddish was the root language of the Askenazis. Guess what? For some inexplicable reason, it wasn't passed down to me by my parents and grandparents who settled in Canada (the Quebec part) in 1914 and 1926. Why? WHY? Will I be less Jewish if I don't speak Yiddish?

      On the flip side, Hebrew was a dormant language catalogued in the Holy Scriptures, unspoken for 2000 years before it was resurrected as the common language of Israel (notice how I state "common" language as opposed to "official" language?) In that two millennium time warp, new terminology had to be developed because there were no electronics the last time Hebrew as spoken, our clothing is different and now we have much more sophisticated technology than we did in the year 1! As it is, a lot of the "new" terminology in Hebrew sounds mostly like Western European languages. What's the Hebrew word for bus? Answer: Autobus! Where have we heard THAT word before?

      I've had it with ridiculing Joual. It's a local dialect of French, just like Afrikaans is a dialect of Dutch developed by that emigrant society and Flemish, another derivative of Dutch. Look at all kinds of Chinese dialects. Local pronunciations and colloquialisms, that's all.

      As for my heritage, if Yiddish disappears, I'm still alive and no less Jewsih; ditto if Hebrew returns to the scriptural catalogues or I never learn to speak it properly. French in Quebec has little change of disappearing because it's still used and it's passed down. French speaking Quebec people have CHOSEN to preserve its French by communicating in French, not because some authority says so...at least not until about 40 years ago, yet French survived 400 years before government came along and passed ridiculous, vindictive laws as a weapon against its minorities.

      Delete
  7. Lets call a truce.

    Let Quebec be all French and let Canada be all English.

    No more problems..right. I suspect the anglos would be better off somewhere else than in a region where there exists bigotted laws of language which discriminate against their own existence.

    Christ, I wouldn't have to look at a box of cereal "en francais sur une cote" in the West which would be a refreshing experience.


    EOS

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sorry, but it's not that simple and only a simpleton would think it is! While the White Roman Catholic Francophones were becoming victims of a vile false doctrine of the Church, the politicians were annexing themselves feeding on the ignorance of that common herd. In the meantime, those not following the hokum were busy building a better, more prosperous society and not producing children like wild jackrabbits and (as the late Mordechai Richler controversially wrote) sows like the mainstream society dictated.

      Why should those who built the jurisdiction and gave it its riches pull out?

      The best thing that happened to Quebec was losing the referendums in 1980 and 1995. If another were held, and the vote favoured separation, I could not possibly care less because without those succulent equalization payments, Quebec will revert to the "small bread of society" mentality the Church doctrine once imposed...AND FAST!

      Delete
    2. India and Pakistan tried that and look how well that turned out.

      Delete
    3. PS: Thanks for the show of support of behalf of the almost 1 million English-speaking Quebecers and who, in spite of the last 35 years of language intolerance, have been a part of Quebec society for centuries and like it here. Throw us under the bus so you can eat your Corn Flakes in peace. Much appreciated.

      Delete
  8. I wouldn't worry too much about a violent conflict with the French. If past history is any indication of future performance, the French's lone wartime victory was during the French revolution and this, I feel, is largely attributed to the fact that the opponent was also French.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If past history is any indication of future performance, anglos won't do anything except that some will move to Ontario because they are tired of the so-called language wars.

      P.S.: ce n'est pas parce que t'es un immigrant (ou un enfant d'immigrants) portugais et que tu te considères Portugais que la même chose s'applique à nous, qui n'étions plus des Français bien avant la révolution française et avant que des immigrants britanniques s'installent en Ontario et pourtant tu ne les appellent pas les British eux. Nous somme les Québécois, pas les Français. D'ailleurs, nous ne retraçons pas tous nos ancêtres juste en France.

      Nous n'avons jamais eu peur de nous battre contre les Anglais (les vrais) dans le passé. Il y eut plusieurs tentatives de conquête qui ont échoué avant la bataille des plaines d'Abraham de 1759, qui est glorifiée par les anglos pour des raisons de propagande mais en fait il y eut la bataille de Sainte-Foy un an après en 1760 (donc ils n'avaient pas gagné la guerre) et nous avons gagné et ça, même les historiens anglos peuvent le confirmer. Pas notre faute si la France nous a échangé contre la Guadeloupe. Quand même bon d'avoir préserver la Nouvelle-France pendant longtemps face à un ennemi beaucoup plus nombreux. Plus forts et courageux que tu penses. Pas de mérite à conquérir quand on est plus nombreux. C'est un geste lâche.

      Mais tout ça c'est de l'histoire ancienne. Nous sommes en 2012 et l'époque des guerres en Amérique du Nord est loin derrière nous et quiconque croit le contraire est fou. Nous sommes civilisés et préférons les urnes aux armes.

      Si certains anglos primitifs préfèrent la violence à la démocratie et aux lois, ils vont vite se rendre compte qu'il y a une police ici et qu'elle n'est pas de leur bord.

      Delete
    2. Bon, vous m'excuserez mais je n'ai plus le temps de commenter. Je dois faire mes valises, je déménage au Portugal et je compte bien passer mon temps à insulter les Portugais et apprendre l'espagnol et préférer cette langue au portugais.

      Puis des années plus tard, je vais enfin quitter mais ça ne m'empêchera pas de continuer de les insulter à distance grâce à Internet.

      Ouais, je suis ce genre de mangeux de marde là.

      (Loin de moi l'idée d'insulter les Portugais qui ont choisi de s'intégrer et qui nous respecte et c'est mutuel. Heureusement ils ne sont pas tous comme Mr.Marco)

      Delete
    3. The French lost the war at the battle of Quiberon Bay:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Quiberon_Bay#Aftermath

      And Levís surrendered shortly after Sainte-Foy:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Sainte-Foy#Result

      You, Monsieur, are a liar and a scoundrel.

      Delete
    4. La guerre a continué 3 ans après Quiberon Bay...

      Delete
    5. Non, je n'ai aucunement menti, j'ai utilisé l'exemple de la bataille de Sainte-Foy pour montrer à ce troll que les victoires françaises existent et aussi pour montrer qu'il y eu plus que la bataille des plaines, surtout que cette bataille s'est produite avant.

      Dans l'article même que vous citez c'est écrit: French victory.

      C'est facile après les faits de dire que ça c'est décidé en 1759 à la baie de Quiberon mais à l'époque, sur le terrain, il faut croire qu'ils croyaient qu'il y avait encore de l'espoir sinon pourquoi se battre encore en 1760? Pas mal pour des supposés peureux, non?

      Lévis s'est rendu après Sainte-Foy, et alors? Je n'ai jamais dit le contraire, ça demeure une défaite des Anglais cette bataille et ce n'est pas la seule défaite des Anglais alors les trolls et leurs mythes d'aucune victoire française...

      Quand même drôle que la France fût la puissance européene la plus forte pendant des siècles sans aucune victoire militaire? Peut-être parce que la réalité est toute autre, et ce n'est même pas pro-Français ou anti-Anglais de dire ça, c'est juste être pro-réalité contre les trolls.

      Delete
    6. Nobody was denying the fact that the French won at Sainte-Foy, the lie is about the fact that somehow Quebec was exchanged for Guadaloupe without there being a military reason to do so. Unless it's the kind of war that the Yanks like to partake these days, there are bound to be battles won by either side. The English love to remember the battle of Agincourt (that they undoubtedly won) but conveniently forget to mention that they LOST the 100 Year War. I think you're guilty of the same sin, troll.

      Delete
    7. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

      Delete
    8. Je n'ai jamais dit que nous n'avions pas perdu la guerre ou qu'il n'y avait pas de raison militaire derrière le choix de céder la Nouvelle-France pour garder la Guadeloupe sinon pourquoi même choisir entre la Nouvelle-France ou la Guadeloupe? S'il n'y avait pas eu de défaite militaire, ils n'auraient pas eu besoin de donner quoi que ce soit alors évidemment qu'il y avait une raison militaire.

      Je voulais juste spécifier qu'il y eu des victoires françaises (en référence à ceux qui disent qu'une victoire militaire française contre des non-français est impossible même si il y eu plusieurs victoires à travers l'histoire) à l'intérieur d'une guerre perdue par la France, que ce ne sont pas toutes les batailles qui furent gagner par les Britanniques prouvant que ceux qui se battent contre la France ne gagnent pas tout le temps toutes les batailles.

      Mr.Marco = "the French's lone wartime victory" = troll

      Delete
  9. based on the comments by the language zealots,,, this banana republic will turn into Bosnia..... for all the non-de souche... starting arming yourself for protection... it's clear that neither the Feds or the Quebec gov't either Lib,pq, caq or anything else won't lift a finger... what's worse is that your so called tolerant de souche don't call out their brethren.. thus one can conclude that they must agree with these tactics.. tolerate the intolerance

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "what's worse is that your so called tolerant de souche don't call out their brethren.. thus one can conclude that they must agree with these tactics.. tolerate the intolerance

      I'm a pure laine francophone and believe me, I'm just as disgusted as you are.
      When anglophones start pushing back and fighting for their basic rights, I'm gonna be right there among them. The actions of franco-bullies don't just harm anglophones, they put shame on those of us who support freedom of speech and equality for all. Please don't put all pur-laines in the same basket.

      Facsists are detrimental to all of us, not just to anglophones. Because of them, I don't even have the freedom to decide the language in which my own children will receive their education. It's ridiculous.

      Delete
    2. I agree 100% with you Nicolas. I think alot of anglophones that have been in Quebec for a long time know that at a certain period of time, francophones did not have the same economic opportunities as anglophones.

      That is why there was the Quiet Revolution and then Bill 101 was implemented. I think that Bill 101 reversed that disadvantage that francophones had. Now, French is the everyday language in the workplace and francophones are able to get service in French.

      However there are aspects of Bill 101 that are just ridiculous, in my opinion, such as preventing parents to choose what school they want their children to go to. If parents are francophone and the child already speaks French and the parents want to give their child an advantage in life being bilingual, what's the problem with that?

      I have no problem with the promotion of the French language but where I part ways with language hardliners is in the dimuition of the English language and anglophones. Economically, it is an advantage to speak both.

      Delete
    3. Good to hear from you, Nicolas. You are definitely more typical of the pure-laine francos that I actually know in daily life compared to the sometimes hysterical anglophobes who often attracted to post on this blog. (By the way, did you guys know the former president of the SSJB said that the expression pure laine is “absolutely obsolete”?)

      Roger Rabbit, good post. I think what irks us most is this notion that the stamping out of English somehow equals the promotion of French. Nothing could be further from the truth.

      Delete
    4. Nicolas a raison,en plus de ne pas pouvoir changer notre langue maternelle il est très difficile de changer notre nom.Quel est ce pays qui ne nous laisse aucune liberté de changer notre d'identité?

      Delete
  10. Ready to push back? Nope. Some might call me a self-loathing anglo but really I don't care if Quebec enforces french laws or not.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't believe you. I think that in reality you are actually a Francophone.

      Delete
  11. Hopefully some boroughs and towns on Montreal Island and decide to hold their own referendums about partition. Once started it would be a domino effect. Some would argue that those areas of Montreal are surrounded by Quebec, well Quebec is surrounded by Canada as well. There would be shock and mass frustration by the pur laine chauvanists, but not much that they can do. Black mail forced on them is not something they were prepared to deal with.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The Canadian constitution forbids any change to provincial borders unless all provinces involved agree. Quebec would never agree to such a thing.

      There's a reason why partition still hasn't happened and that's the reason.

      Delete
    2. The Natives in northern Quebec have stated that they would go to war to remain in Canada if Quebec voted to separate.

      Delete
  12. Editor: "Two young language punks set upon a bunch of small businesses in the very English and ethnic neighborhoods of NDG and Cote-de-Neiges in Montreal, scaring one fruit store into taking down a copy of an advertisement from a local English newspaper that it had placed in its windows."

    Punks is a good way to describe them. Let's finally demystify these assholes. They want to be thought of as the "defenders of culture", but strip away that pretentious mask, and you have no more than pathetic bullies with no life.

    Now, why don't they pick on a bigger business, one that employs security guards and has lawyers to fight battles in court? They pick easier targets, because that's what punks do.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The punks here are actually those who don't obey the law.

      Virtuous Max Virtue is a law-abiding citizen, not a punk.

      Delete
    2. A virtuous person is someone who stands up to fascist laws.

      Delete
    3. Well the constitution doesn't even specify creation of new country that Quebec plans to specify. Partition doesn't even have to be about creation of a new province. It could be an offer of sovereignty association to the province of Quebec. Also on Montreal island, despite any provincial laws towns, municipalities and most of the Montreal Boroughs can create their own Montreal merger on the lines of Montreal Urban community that will be run bilingually where Bill 101 will not be allowed to be enforced. Quebec is not all powerful as it threatens to be. Even the militants are paper tigers, if confronted like in Shawville they will back off.

      Delete
  13. I am suprised they got away with it in Cote des neiges. Alot of these punks would have got a punked in areas like victoria and plamondon.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Not really because they can be protected by the police.

      Delete
    2. The police in Quebec are a total joke.

      The Surete du Quebec (Quebec Provincial police) did absolutely nothing to protect Mohawk women, children and the elderly who were stoned by French Quebecois during the Oka Crisis:

      www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f8_C7FUmx4

      The Quebec provincial police were so useless and pathetic during the Oka Crisis that the Canadian Army had to be called in to restore order.

      Delete
    3. You said it: they did nothing to protect Mohawks. The same Mohawks that claim their territory is not a part of Quebec yet want protection from Quebec police.

      But they would do something to protect OQLF inspectors from angryphones if the OQLF inspectors requested their help, which the inspector in Shawville could have done but didn't probably because he wasn't physically assaulted. Physical assault would not go unpunished.

      Delete
    4. Yes but the area where the mohawk women and children were attacked were in Chateauguay Quebec not in Mohawk territory. The Quebec and municipal police were willfully negligent. Quebec muncipalties on Montreal island could create their own police force and that would really blunt alot of the protections the MMF and RPQ types get.

      Delete
    5. Quebec nationalists/separatists like to claim that their "nation" isn't really part of Canada. I suppose the RCMP shouldn't take any steps to protect them either if they are threatened or assaulted.

      Delete
  14. A young black québécois nationalist is qualified as a Kapo. The editor clearly show his racism here. Of course an immigrant cannot be a sovereignist in the intolerant eyes of the anglo-racists.

    In fact, i know several black folks who come from francophone Africa who are pissed off at the fact that they cant get a job in montreal because they speak no english, especially when they came here because peoples told them that Quebec is french.


    Oh and of course Mr. Sauga can write that he want us wiped off the surface and others Nazi-esque opinions whitout any troubles, another proof of the hardcore racism of this blog.



    Personnaly, im tired of the racism of our anglo-suprematists. Its time to to be real and give these racists a kick in the ass.

    The first thing we should is abolish the bill 101 and treat them exactly like the ROC treat our francophone brothers and sisters outside quebec.

    The bill 101 is a joke and a bureaucratic solution to a cultural problem. It never attacked the IMMENSE priviledge that the anglo community have. Like the over-financed hospital and education system with public money.

    There is one french-only hosptial in ontario (Montford, that the racists anglos tried to close in the 1990's) while there is 11 anglo hospital in quebec.

    There is 3 anglo university in quebec, only a small single french one in the ROC (in Moncton).

    I could go on and on.




    Its time to abolish the Bill 101 and instead give only a small amount of public money to their institutions like the ROC do for the francophones.



    It's time to show the anglo-suprematists that we dont take their racism anymore.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "i know several black folks who come from francophone Africa who are pissed off at the fact that they cant get a job in montreal because they speak no english, especially when they came here because peoples told them that Quebec is french."

      ...especially when they came here because peoples told them that Quebec is french...

      Whose fault is it then? Of people who lie saying that Quebec is only French? Or people who do not conform to that lie and continue to live, work, and hire in English?

      ----

      "Personnaly, im tired of the racism of our anglo-suprematists. Its time to to be real and give these racists a kick in the ass."

      Who is walking around whose neighborhood complaining about signage? Buddy, let's talk when we have the first ever anglo/allo who goes to Montreal Est and picks on depanneurs for the lack of English.

      ----

      "There is one french-only hosptial in ontario (Montford, that the racists anglos tried to close in the 1990's) while there is 11 anglo hospital in quebec."

      Maybe it has to do with demand? Maybe those "peoples" who "told them that Quebec is french" are lying?

      Delete
    2. "i know several black folks who come from francophone Africa who are pissed off at the fact that they cant get a job in montreal because they speak no english, especially when they came here because peoples told them that Quebec is french."

      They can all go to work in the McDonalds in Sept-Isles!

      Delete
    3. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

      Delete
    4. "There is one french-only hosptial in ontario (Montford, that the racists anglos tried to close in the 1990's) while there is 11 anglo hospital in quebec."

      There is also a French clinic near Cornwall, Ontario that refuses to treat Anglophones. Who are the real racists?

      The Anglophone hospitals in Quebec all operate bilingually and treat Francophones too. If any tiny number of employees can't speak French fluently, you can be sure that complaints will be made to the French language Gestapo (OQLF) and the media, as happened recently with the Royal Victoria Hospital.

      If the situation is so bad for Francophones in the rest of Canada, why hasn't there ever been a mass migration of them to Quebec? On the other hand, hundreds of thousands of Anglophones have moved out of Quebec during the past 40 years because of the egregious state of affairs here.

      Delete
    5. "There is also a French clinic near Cornwall, Ontario that refuses to treat Anglophones. Who are the real racists?"

      It's not racism, it's because they are afraid of assimilation.

      "The Anglophone hospitals in Quebec all operate bilingually and treat Francophones too. "

      Something that was made possible by the same bill 101 you probably oppose.

      If I were an anglophone, a bilingual anglophone that is proud to be bilingual, I wouldn't be against bill 101 because it's what turned mostly unilingual anglophones into mostly bilingual anglophones.
      Bill 101 brought tolerance and understanding.

      Opposition to bill 101 is intolerance.

      Delete
    6. LOL, the editor erased one of my comments. Well, its your blog after all, but you got a very soft skin.

      Delete
    7. ``It's not racism, it's because they are afraid of assimilation.``

      So it`s okay for Francophone hospitals elsewhere to discriminate on language but not Anglophone hospitals here. So it the old one two, the old switch-a-roony, the same old same old double standard.

      I am an anglophone and I am proud to be bilingual. Being against 101 has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with how we feel about being bilingual. In case you haven`t noticed, we are very proud of being bilingual and often tri-lingual.

      ``Bill 101 brought tolerance and understanding``

      Haha, that`s a good joke!

      Delete
    8. "So it`s okay for Francophone hospitals elsewhere to discriminate on language but not Anglophone hospitals here."

      Yes, it is perfectly okay because the two situations are completely different. There is actual assimilation of francophones in Cornwall whereas anglophones in Montreal don't have to fear losing their language.

      "I am an anglophone and I am proud to be bilingual. Being against 101 has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with how we feel about being bilingual."

      But in a world without bill 101 (what a horrible world that would be, I don't even want to think about it) would you be bilingual nonetheless? Would most anglophones be bilingual without bill 101?

      Delete
    9. Actually, yes I would be bilingual as I grew us as an anglophone in a French community, with a family that was half French half English. I also made sure my kids are bilingual, not because of Bill 101 but because it`s advantageous for them to know more than one language.

      Delete
    10. ``Yes, it is perfectly okay because the two situations are completely different. There is actual assimilation of francophones in Cornwall whereas anglophones in Montreal don't have to fear losing their language.``

      Okay, that is such a ridiculous statement for defending this double standard that I don`t even know where to start.

      Is it possible to even imply that francophones in Montreal will LOSE their language because they went to an English hospital?

      Again double standard, you don`t want francos assimilating in Ontario. You want anglos assimilating in Quebec. So are you for or against assimilation?

      Delete
    11. "Again double standard, you don`t want francos assimilating in Ontario. You want anglos assimilating in Quebec. So are you for or against assimilation?"

      I never said I wanted anglos to assimilate, I said anglophones in Montreal don't have to fear losing their language because it is not in danger there.

      Which French community are you talking about, if it's not too personal? Even in communities that are almost totally French-speaking, anglophones don't assimilate as easily as francophones in English Canadian communities with a higher percentage of French-speakers.

      Statistics Canada calls this linguistic vitality and documents they have published show that English in Montreal is not threatened whereas French outside of Quebec is.
      Call this a double standard but the situations are quite different. There are more people speaking English at home in Montreal than there are native-speakers whereas when it comes to French in Cornwall, it's the opposite.

      Delete
    12. "Bill 101 brought tolerance and understanding."
      "Opposition to bill 101 is intolerance."

      You can't possibly be serious. The United Nations condemned Quebec for violating basic human freedoms because of Bill 101.

      "Statistics Canada calls this linguistic vitality and documents they have published show that English in Montreal is not threatened whereas French outside of Quebec is."

      Many Anglophones have been ethnically cleansed from Montreal and English is certainly threatened in the outlying regions of Quebec. Significant numbers of once-thriving Anglophone communities have virtually disappeared because of your beloved Bill 101.

      Delete
    13. "There are more people speaking English at home in Montreal than there are native-speakers whereas when it comes to French in Cornwall, it's the opposite."

      Do you compare percentages or absolute numbers? If you compare numbers, your statement is rubbish.

      Delete
    14. A young black québécois nationalist is qualified as a Kapo. The editor clearly show his racism here

      No, but you are showing the kind of double-speak that only racaille like you is capable of: just because he's black he can't be accused of doing anything wrong? Or do you have to be black to be allowed to point it out? Does marrying into a black family qualify me? Blacks, whites, yellows, greens can be as bastard as each other: ethnicity does not justify wrongdoing, or, as Chris Rock put it:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8

      Delete
    15. "Do you compare percentages or absolute numbers? If you compare numbers, your statement is rubbish."

      I looked them up at http://www12.statcan.ca/census-recensement/2006/dp-pd/prof/92-591/index.cfm?Lang=E

      Cornwall (Census agglomeration)
      Mother tongue
      French only 13,745
      Language spoken most often at home
      French 7,140

      Montréal (Census metropolitan area) which includes Laval, the south shore and the north shore
      Mother tongue
      English only 425,635
      Language spoken most often at home
      English 592,130

      So you see, Cornwall Francophones are being assimilated while Montreal Anglophones assimilate some non-Anglophones.

      "Many Anglophones have been ethnically cleansed"

      That's not actual ethnic cleansing. Nobody was forced to move. In the late 1970s after bill 101 was passed there even were commercials in English on TV and ads in the Gazette explaining was bill 101 was about to reassure Anglophones. The Quebec government actually wanted them to stay.

      Delete
    16. *what bill 101 was about

      Delete
    17. @AnonymousApr 21, 2012 01:12 PM

      Not sure what it had to do with the story but that video was hilarious... Chris Rock is the man!

      Delete
    18. You can't argue with this double standard Pur Laine chauvanist justifier. He doesn't even realize what kind of double standard he is using. He doesn't have an arguement to justify bill 101 in terms of morals or ethics. He is just trying to benefit his community no matter the cost of peoples livelihood and being forced to move from the city they were born in.

      Thats why I wouldn't care if Montreal got anglicized. When Most francophones justify fear of assimilation to deny rights to Quebec anglos and allos I then think its perfectly ok for anglos to not care for their fear of assimilation and that it would be perfectly ok to partition anglo, allo and even native areas from the "province of Quebec" and without a population of "hostage" anglos and allos of significance they can do whatever they want to save their language and culture. I wouldn't care if in that scenario the rest of Quebec became a bigger economic basketcase and would be happier yet if their equalization paid by the rest of Canada was cut off as well. If approximately 1.8 million people fit into the new partitioned areas of what was formerly part of quebec. Dividing the debt of 250 billion by population would be approximately 56 million for the new partitioned areas. Quebec would be stuck with lions share of their provincial debt.

      Delete
    19. "There is one french-only hosptial in ontario (Montford, that the racists anglos tried to close in the 1990's) while there is 11 anglo hospital in quebec."

      "There is 3 anglo university in quebec, only a small single french one in the ROC (in Moncton)."

      This may have something to so with the fact that while Francophones were spending all of their time and money building enormous churches and supporting huge families, Anglophones were busy building hospitals and universities.

      In Ottawa there are also Saint Paul University and the University of Ottawa which serve the Francophone community.

      At least two Anglophone hospitals (the Reddy Memorial and the Queen Elizabeth) and scores of English schools have been closed down in Quebec because of the racist Quebecois.

      Delete
    20. "That's not actual ethnic cleansing. Nobody was forced to move. In the late 1970s after bill 101 was passed there even were commercials in English on TV and ads in the Gazette explaining was bill 101 was about to reassure Anglophones. The Quebec government actually wanted them to stay."

      That's not true. The father of Bill 101 himself, Camille Laurin, said that he wanted to reduce the number of Anglophones in Quebec. Bill 101 forced Anglos out of Quebec on a massive scale, so it did result in ethnic cleansing.

      Delete
    21. Maybe somebody can also tally the number of convents and seminaries that were built in Quebec and outside Quebec rather than building hospitals and universities...

      Delete
    22. Then again, if it wasn't for the church, what little education and hospitals that were built woudn't even be there. It's not as if we had the support of the state.

      The University of Ottawa and of Moncton, as well as all the francophone colleges outside Quebec (for instance the College St-Jean of Edmonton or the Université St-Anne of nova scotia) were all built by religious orders. The Georges-Dumont hospital in Moncton was similarly originally built by sisters.

      My own grandfather had to join a religious order just to get a high school education, in the freaking fifties, because public education was underfunded in francophone areas and stopped at grade 8. He eventually clawed his way to a university education in what was then the Collège St-Paul, no thanks to the state. It wasn't until the 60's and Louis-J. Robichaud that public education was standardized across the province and francophones finally gained equal access to public institutions.

      Delete
  15. Zeig Heil monsier....Can we abolish the Official Language Act in Canada as a side bar.

    ReplyDelete
  16. The following will become more prevalent as media and certain "shock jocks" incite the hatred:
    Audio from Tommy Schnurmacher show;
    http://www.cjad.com/blog/TommySchnurmacherShow/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10372942

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's pretty ridiculous that an old woman would complain when she is being served in French at a Belle Province because the owner spoke to her husband in English. She was being served in French, for heaven's sake!

      It's getting to be more about getting rid of English from the public space than protecting French, which is a very totalitarian thing to do.

      At some point, people have to stop listening to the politicians who like to govern based on fear and the media which focuses on controversy to get ratings/readership.

      Delete
  17. @ 8:59 I've worked at English and French hospitals in Montreal, all are underfinanced by the government. English hospitals are better (that's why French people go to them) because the English community is more generous and spends there time raising money for hospitals instead of going around trying to spot out the 30 odd English signs in Montreal.
    By the way can you back up your assessment that English institutions are overfinanced? Just because you are a racist and don't want any financing for said institutions doesn't mean the petty hand outs by the government are "overfinancing." McGill grads donate to McGill a lot more than UdeM grads, not only because they are more successful, but also because they are more generous (there is proof of this, look at an article pointed out by the editor a few weeks back that shows French Canadians are the least generous of Canadians with regards to volunteering and donations).
    I'm not sure who the English language supremacists you talk about are, sure there are a few anglocentrists on this blog, but nobody outside this province gives a shit about the English/French conflict, despite your belief it is the topic of conversation at every dinner table in North America and around the world every night.
    I'm very sorry that you have to wait a year for TVA to come up with their 2nd rate copy of Let's Make a Deal before you can enjoy all the crap out there. But that doesn't make anglophones racist. I'll direct you up to the first comment thread where the French Canadian guy wrote "La Société Saint-Jean-Baptiste est plus ouverte aux autres que n'importe quel club de juifs, Sauga.
    Même un juif pourrait s'y joindre." I'm pretty sure he didn't even realize how racist he's being.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Racist? All are welcome to join the SSJB (Société Saint-Jean-Baptiste, nothing to do with the SS) including Jews.

      Anyone can be Québécois. Anyone can make the French language their own and defend it by filing complaints after doing some patrolling in neighborhoods with many linguistic rebels.

      You are always welcome to join.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous at 13:25,

      Racist? All are welcome to join the SSJB (Société Saint-Jean-Baptiste, nothing to do with the SS) including Jews.

      Can I join SSJB when I am speaking English? Better yet, can a unilingual English join?

      Delete
    3. Well of course you have to know French but you can join even if your native language is only English as long as you learn French. This is the only criteria (which is not based on race therefore not racist) and it's not mandatory, it's just for your own good or else you wouldn't be able to understand.

      All ethnic groups are welcome. All religions are welcome, something that can't be said of the English-speaking Orange Order.

      Delete
    4. Sure, the SSJB used to be focused on Catholicism as can be seen on their traditional flag:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Drapeau-Carillon-Sacr%C3%A9-Coeur.jpg
      not that there is anything wrong with having a Catholic organization while there are Jewish organizations.

      But unlike the Jews and the orangists, it opened itself to other religions and to all races or else how do you explain this about its previous president (the article isn't up to date, Mario Beaulieu is president of the SSJB now):
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Dorion#Private_life

      Five children with a Japanese woman and yet some think it's a group of racists?

      And notice the part in the introduction: "A polyglot, he speaks six languages"
      Surely English must be one of those languages. He's not proudly unilingual and anti-all-other-languages.

      Delete
    5. "Well of course you have to know French but you can join even if your native language is only English as long as you learn French. This is the only criteria (which is not based on race therefore not racist) and it's not mandatory, it's just for your own good or else you wouldn't be able to understand."

      Discrimination can be based on much more than just race.

      Delete
    6. BlueBlancRouge,

      I wrote this comment about one or two years ago in this blog.

      I read the financial statements of both McGill and UdeM. Nothing fancy, just took a look at their profit & loss and balance sheet. I found that the over financing arguments favored by the separatists are not true.

      In per-student basis, UdeM receives from the provincial government more than McGill. Multiply that with the number of students UdeM has (UdeM is the second largest Canadian university after U of T), provincial government money to UdeM is multiple times bigger than it is to McGill. Income from the federal government is relatively similar.

      However, McGill has bigger revenue than UdeM. What are the main sources? Two things. Donations and research funds. Donations to McGill from individuals, organizations and corporations are head and shoulder above UdeM. So are research funding. That means that McGill researchers and professors bring in much more money.

      I have not done my comparison between Concordia and UQAM but I suspect the result will not be much different. After all, the provincial government bailed UQAM out on its real-estate fiasco and Concordia managed to build a high-rise building for its business school on its own.

      Delete
  18. I have a couple of questions which I hope you can help me with regarding the use of english in signs.

    I am one of the rare non canadian anglophones who has voluntarily chosen to come here. I am not trying to fight against the principles of the law, just to better understand its application.

    How is the law written in regards to penalties applied to those businesses who break the law. Practical application seems to be a warning to the businesses to comply, but what happens after that? what is the financial or criminal penalty of non compliance? And does this also apply to being served in French? (the Mcdonalds article as an example).

    The reasoning behind my question is this - alot of times I go to a store and try to order something in French, Francophone storekeepers will realise that I am not very good and respond to me in English (commonly the reason is I need to practice my english, or I love your accent so they want me to speak to them in English). I have no problems with accomodating them, and in return them accomodating me by helping me with mistakes I make, so most of the conversations end up half and half, with everyone being happy.

    The point to this is - If I walk into a shop and order in French (no matter how bad my ability to speak it is), and the francophone shopkeeper replies to me in English, wouldn't this mean they are breaking the law and my rights are not being respected? I would never ever enable the OQLF by lodging complaints against people just trying to do their job, but after reading this blog I have begun to wonder whether a different set of rules would apply to Francophones who do not 'respect the law'.

    I wonder this

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. As far as I know, there are fines for refusing to comply with the OQLF. I believe that's it.

      Delete
    2. "I am one of the rare non canadian anglophones who has voluntarily chosen to come here. I am not trying to fight against the principles of the law, just to better understand its application."

      Don't listen to all the propaganda here. In practice, what the law does is sending immigrant children to French schools and that's about it.

      There are even signs in English only right next to the office of the minister that's responsible for applying the law.

      They receive comlaints but they really do anything about it. Fines are extremely rare.
      The worst that can happen is probably just someone visiting your store and telling you nicely that it would be nice to your customers if you had signs that also had French on them.

      Yet some people compare this to the Nazi regime.

      Delete
    3. *complaints
      *they rarely do anything about it

      Delete
    4. "Don't listen to all the propaganda here. In practice, what the law does is sending immigrant children to French schools and that's about it."

      The law has a great deal to do with the language of signs and the workplace as well.

      English and all other languages were originally banned from all public and commercial signage by Bill 101. Languages other than French were only allowed after the Supreme Court of Canada threw out some aspects of Bill 101 and the United Nations cited Quebec for violating basic human rights. English and other languages are allowed on signs now but the words must be below the French words and no more than half the size. Still, the Office Quebecois de la langue francais discourages the use of English.

      Many people have lost their jobs or have been refused jobs if their French was not at an acceptable level according to the law.

      "They receive comlaints but they really (don't) do anything about it. Fines are extremely rare."

      Yeah right...that's why hundreds of businesses have left Quebec. Where exactly did you get this statistic? Out of your rectum?

      "The worst that can happen is probably just someone visiting your store and telling you nicely that it would be nice to your customers if you had signs that also had French on them."

      Like the two punks mentioned by the Editor in this blog post? I suppose the store owners should be happy that these characters didn't smear feces on their store fronts, as was the case with the convenience store owner in Verdun.

      Delete
    5. "Like the two punks mentioned by the Editor in this blog post?"

      Those are not OQLF inspectors. Those are civilians.

      "as was the case with the convenience store owner in Verdun."

      Those aren't OQLF inspectors either and that's a story unrelated to the one above involving citizens filing complaints which is their right and it's something that is encouraged by the government.

      Delete
    6. "They receive complaints but they really do anything about it. Fines are extremely rare.
      The worst that can happen is probably just someone visiting your store and telling you nicely that it would be nice to your customers if you had signs that also had French on them."

      I can't believe you're saying the OQLF language inspectors are nice. They're called tongue troopers for a good reason. They harass businesses and fine them until they get their way or the business leaves Quebec (which happens frequently).

      "Those aren't OQLF inspectors either and that's a story unrelated to the one above involving citizens filing complaints which is their right and it's something that is encouraged by the government."

      In most free and civilized countries around the world people are not encouraged by the government to inform anonymously on their fellow citizens. And those who are accused of wrongdoing have the right to confront their accuser in a court of law. Of course, this is not the case in Quebec, which is a neo-fascist police state.

      Delete
    7. "The worst that can happen is probably just someone visiting your store and telling you nicely that it would be nice to your customers if you had signs that also had French on them."

      OQLF inspectors are not nice. They harass and fine businesses that are violating the bigotted language laws until they fall in line or leave Quebec (this happens frequently).

      "...that's a story unrelated to the one above involving citizens filing complaints which is their right and it's something that is encouraged by the government."

      In most free and civilized countries around the world the government doesn't encourage people to anonymously inform on their fellow citizens. And those accused of wrongdoing have the right to confront their accusers in a court of law, which is not the case here. Quebec is really just a neo-fascist police state.

      Delete
    8. @AnonymousApr 20, 2012 09:43 AM

      The Editor posted this video a couple months back (on 13/2/12, in fact). Although it's an oldie, it's still a goodie. I don't know where you're from originally but this was the view of Quebec that was broadcast across America back in 1998 by the esteemed U.S. television news magazine, "60 Minutes":

      War of Words

      Delete
  19. @anon 8:59

    I know several black people from Africa that can't get jobs despite knowing french. They had to move to Toronto to get jobs as bilingual technical support despite their lack of english. They mentioned how if you learn english, you can get a job in English montreal companies where as despite knowing French pur lainers don't hire them. Why don't you ask those people from africa that can't get jobs in Montreal for not knowing english if they ever tried to get jobs in the regions where French is the mother tongue of over 90% of the population.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "despite knowing French pur lainers don't hire them"

      Bill 101 was adopted precisely because so often WASPs wouldn't hire Francophones even when they knew English.

      It's not a racist law, it's an anti-racist law. A law was needed to secure the right to work in French because of all the racism.

      Delete
    2. @ Anon 10:36

      101 is a payback law that protects those too lazy to learn English when it's required to do the job.

      Delete
    3. We will have a problem for as long as some francophones continue to think that indifference=disrespect, and for as long as their politicians promote that view.

      Indifference is not disrespect. Someone can live in NDG minding his own business, not hurting a fly let alone a francophone. If you come after him accusing him that he is a racist because you perceive he doesn't respect your language, the problem is with you, not with him. First, you equate language with yourself, as if language was a person. Second, your perception of disrespect is a figment of your imagination.

      And how are we supposed to deal with you? What do we have to do for you to stop feeling disrespected? If we crawl around on your knees, will it do?

      Delete
    4. Adski, So true. Glad you pointed that out.

      Delete
  20. @ Editor
    "We have our own hospitals, our own schools, our own television and media, our own cities run by Anglos in English and most of these assets are as good or better than what is on the other side."

    And that's why it's hard to take you seriously as an oppressed minority.

    Oh the poor Anglos that were forced to move to Westmount because of the discrimination.

    Is Montreal a city run by Anglos in English? No, not really.
    Then why are you always saying to the whole world that you're Montrealers while you really aren't. You were for just a few years and then voted to be separated from the city of Montreal, probably because it wasn't English enough for your taste.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Have you ever been given dirty looks for speaking French on the bus? This is the type of treatment we are talking about.

      A little nitpicky about being a Montrealer don't you think? I think, as long as you're on the island, you're a Montrealer. Pointe-aux-Trembles to Baie d'urfé.

      Delete
    2. "Have you ever been given dirty looks for speaking French on the bus?"

      No but the only time I took the bus in there was when visiting relatives living in Montréal-Nord when I was a kid.
      I heard Italian spoken on the bus and saw black people in person for the first time.
      I was confused and thought I wasn't in Quebec anymore.
      It's only many many years later I found out about the west island.

      Delete
    3. *took the bus there
      or took the bus in Montreal
      I should re-read myself before posting

      Delete
    4. Hi, I`m not sure if I made my point about speaking French on the bus. What I meant was as an anglo, we often get sneers, stares, dirty glances, comments, and attacks for speaking English in public. Just trying to make a point that you have surely not experienced this type of racism just for speaking your own language in your own city.

      Delete
    5. « we often get sneers, stares, dirty glances, comments, and attacks for speaking English in public. »

      D'où l'importance d'avoir le français comme langue commune. Si tout le monde parle la même langue en public, les gens ne vous regarderons pas différemment. Évidemment, chez vous, vous pouvez continuer à parler votre langue maternelle.

      J'aime bien le slogan qui a été utilisé pour cette annonce:
      http://quebecfrancais.org/files/bandeaufinal.jpg

      J'aime ma langue dans ta bouche, Laurie.

      Delete
    6. Juste pour être sûr qu'il n'y a pas de confusion lors de la traduction et pour éviter d'être accusé d'harcèlement sexuel, c'est contre mes principes d'écrire en anglais mais je vais le dire :

      I like my language (not tongue) in your mouth, Laurie.

      Delete
    7. Harcèlement sexuel = mal et illégal.
      Harcèlement linguistique = ça doit être bien puisque c'est légal et encouragé même par le gouvernement libéral.

      Delete
    8. Laurie

      Essaie le français en Alberta pourtant notre propre langue dans notre propre pays.

      Delete
    9. Anonymous at 09:26,

      Essaie le français en Alberta pourtant notre propre langue dans notre propre pays.

      I can not understand why the government of Quebec may not give English course to job seekers while in the same time there is Centre d'emploi francophone de Calgary.

      There goes your argument, eh?

      Delete
    10. "I can not understand why the government of Quebec may not give English course to job seekers"

      Vraiment?
      http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/national/201204/01/01-4511464-des-millions-pour-angliciser-les-immigrants-francophones.php

      Delete
    11. Anonymous at 13:36,

      Vraiment?

      You just supported my argument. Look here for the reaction of the government helping new immigrants. Anybody complains in Alberta?

      Delete
    12. ``Essaie le français en Alberta pourtant notre propre langue dans notre propre pays.``

      Why are you answering me with a question about Alberta? If a francophone gets a dirty look on the bus in Alberta, does it justify someone doing the same here. Is that why it happens?

      Delete
    13. SInce we are, yet again, on the topic of integration of immigrants, it is worth to mention that for the 2011-2012 year, Quebec receives from the federal government a minimum of $258,400,000, through the Canada Quebec Accord. The rest of the provinces will receive a total of $598,670,226. So from a (rounded) total of $857,100,000 for the 2011-12 Settlement Funding, Quebec receives roughly 30.14%, with a smaller percentage of immigrants (16-19% of the total). How fair is that?

      Delete
    14. Tanya,

      That happens because according to Canada-Quebec accord, Quebec has the full right to choose the immigrants coming to Quebec. However, the number does not really make sense. Quebec processes only 19% of immigrants while receives 30% of total immigration processing budget. Not only that, because the process in Quebec is two-tiered (Quebec issues CSQ and federal issues the visa), applicants to Quebec program needs to pay TWO times. Currently, the Quebec fee is $750 and the federal fee is $475, both for the main applicant. Those applying to the federal program (to immigrate to Canada outside of Quebec) need only to pay the $475.

      My question then, where do the money go?

      Delete
    15. Troy, you are perfectly right - I went through the whole system, paid all the taxes ( including the ones you didn't mention, etc). I believe the money go also in the francisation courses... Which makes it ironic, at least - the nationalists screaming their heads off that the federalists are anglicizing Quebec while using federal money to integrate the immigrants in Qc. I also wanted to point out the disproportionality between the funds received and the amount of immigrants. This is one of the many instances where Quebec is over-funded.

      ... and as a side note, the Quebec government advertises the immigration program on its own, not under Canadian banner.

      Delete
    16. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    17. Did you know that 90% of wealthy immigrants accepted into Quebec's investor immigrant program (the same one that brought Mohammed Shafia here) never come to Quebec? Quebec gets the money for them while they mainly settle in Vancouver, where B.C. gets to pick up the social services costs for health care, etc...

      See Rich Asian immigrants spurn Quebec.

      Delete
    18. Tanya and The Cat,

      This is my experience from first-hand sources, including myself. Why a number of people choose to immigrate under the Quebec program? Very simple. Quebec program is substantially easier and faster than the federal program. Practically the main thing Quebec program asks is the ability to speak French. And that just means that when the applicant is interviewed at the Delegation general, he can answer the interviewer. Just that. An intensive course at Centre culturel francaise or Alliance francaise is enough to prepare an applicant.

      So, for some people the Quebec program is a backdoor to Canada. Remember, under the Constitution every Canadian citizen and permanent resident has the right to move anywhere in Canada. So, one applies for Quebec program, lands himself at Trudeau, then take the next flight out to his true destination. He only needs a Quebec address for the delivery of the Permanent Resident Card.

      Delete
  21. What would OQLF do if people openly defied the languages laws and just ignored all fines and court. That what put Quebec in a corner because international media would focus on them and they would collapse under the weight of violators.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. if a brave person would have the Balls to block access to an OQLf inspector into his/her workshop or buidling,I am pretty much sure the OQLF inspector would start shitting in his pans and coward like a chickenshit fairy.

      Delete
    2. Then good luck blocking access to the police once the inspector comes back with them.

      Why won't you linguistic rebels behave?

      Why won't you accept that bill 101 is something positive for everybody?

      It's only because of ignorance of what the law actually does that some people are against it.

      Separatists love bill 101 but federalists should love it too.

      See, even the National Post agrees: "Love it or hate it, Bill 101 is one of the reasons Quebec is still part of Canada."
      http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/02/07/tasha-kheiriddin-how-bill-101-saved-canada/

      Delete
    3. @ AnonymousApr 20, 2012 06:47 PM

      Did you even read that article that you linked to? The author’s point is that Bill 101 prevented the separation of Quebec. Other than that, it has been an unmitigated disaster.

      It says that Quebec MP Maxime Bernier questions the need for Bill 101: “It’s like in Quebec — we don’t need Bill 101 to protect the French language over there. They know we speak French in Quebec and we will speak French for a long time, I believe it.” and [French] will thrive if we make it an attractive language that newcomers want to learn and use. Not by imposing it and by preventing people from making their own decisions in matters that concern their personal lives.” .

      Then the writer continues: Mr. Bernier is right that Bill 101 messes with personal lives. It is a draconian, discriminatory piece of legislation which helped drive over 100,000 Anglophones out of Quebec in the late 1970’s. In doing so, it also messed with the marketplace, and the economy, setting Quebec back financially as capital, head offices, and taxpayers fled. Then, over the next two decades, an entire generation of young Anglophones – educated at the expense of Quebec taxpayers – also took their leave. Finally, the law discouraged talented unilingual people from coming to the province, knowing they, their families and businesses would face linguistic hurdles, costs, and discrimination.

      The objective of protecting French, of which Bill 101 was a central part, consumed increasing public resources and helped cement the notion that a strong (aka large) state was necessary for the maintenance of Quebec’s identity. Over time, the concept of a large state became Quebec’s identity. This contributed to Quebec becoming the most socialist province in the country, with a staggering debt of $225 billion, dependent on transfer payments from the rest of Canada to maintain its over-generous social programs.

      In short, Bill 101 allowed Quebecers to live in French without having to separate from Canada, dealt a severe and persistent blow to the province’s economy, and entrenched public acceptance of a large state (which Quebecers can’t afford without Canada’s help, if then). Bill 101 has thereby helped make separation from Canada into a mirage, floating further and further out of reach of Quebec’s secessionist elites. Polls show Quebecers no longer believe it will happen, while the government simply can’t afford it.

      So merci, Parti Quebecois, for Bill 101, which helped keep our great country together.


      Way to make a cogent argument!

      Delete
    4. Stop being racist towards a racist language law, that's their argument. Bill 101 has no place in a free society. The ONLY reason it's still tolerated in Canada is because of the Not withstanding clause in our Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

      Delete
  22. @10:32 AM

    Cote Des Neiges, NDG, much of ville emard, downtown, Park Extension has english 1st official language majority speakers. Not just westmount. Typical select and choose the facts of those pur laine chauvanists that like to do propaganda.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The editor said "our own cities run by Anglos" so I said "Is Montreal a city run by Anglos in English? No, not really." which is a fact. It doesn't mean it's exclusively run by French-speaking people but it's certainly not run exclusively by Anglos and exclusively in English while there is a French-speaking mayor and French is the language used the most at city hall.

      I never said anything about parts of the city, I was talking about places that are not a part of the city such as west island towns which is surely what the editor meant when he said cities run by Anglos. This is why I said "voted to be separated from the city of Montreal" which includes Westmount which is an independent city.

      You listed places that are boroughs, not cities. Then you said not just Westmount. Westmount is not a part of the city of Montreal. Look it up. People living in Westmount are technically not Montrealers.

      It's obvious west island towns voted to demerge from Montreal because of language.
      If parts of Montreal with a French-speaking majority would have voted to demerge so they wouldn't have to be a part of the same city as the mostly English west island, you would be the first to call them anglophobic.

      Delete
    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    3. @AnonymousApr 20, 2012 12:02 PM

      >>It's obvious west island towns voted to demerge from Montreal because of language.

      That's funny, my francophone aunt in the West Island was actively involved in demerging because she prefers the superior city services she receives there compared to the shoddy ones in Montreal.

      And how do you explain francophone Montréal-Est's decision to demerge?

      Delete
    4. Agreed again The Cat! Anyone who I knew who voted to de-merge did so for "practical" reasons such as the ones you've listed above. I don't know of anyone who voted based on language. The very notion seems absurd to tell you the truth.

      Another myth perpetrated by the nationalists that just aint true!

      Delete
    5. Do you know that Montreal East still has a Dorchester Blvd? It refused to change the name to René-Lévesque.

      Delete
    6. I had heard that before but didn't know if it was true. I'm not that surprised though. Montreal East was home to a lot of working class anglos around the turn of the 20th century. My great-grandfather was from Austria and worked at the Angus shops building locomotives. He lived in MOntreal East and was one of those immigrants who ended up in the Anglo community because of his work, I suppose.

      Delete
    7. There always were and still are quite a few anglos in that community, despite what people think.

      Delete
  23. @anon 10:36

    OF course bill 101 it was racist law. It was a right to work in French in companies that legally ran in English in a bilingual Quebec. Just because bou bou bourassa changed the law in 1974 doesn't make it right.

    Selective history always.

    ReplyDelete
  24. @ Anonymous 10:36. Ahh. My favorite of all French Canadian arguments. The "English were racist in the 1700's, 1800's, 1930's, 1950's so now its our turn" argument. Your grampa call my grand pere a Frog so I'm allowed to call you a "maudits anlais" or "bon juif".

    I do not make excuses for past generations, everyone was racist then. I do take exception to current generations being racist, sexist, agist... pretty much bigotry in all it's colours. We can and should be better than those before us. Saying "you started this" makes you sound like a 7 year old.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Somebody else recently posted a link to this book chapter from 1955 about minorities in Quebec. The relevant passage, I think, is: "The French Canadians live in history, drilled to remember all that has made them what they are; and alas, every grievance. The English Canadians live in the present and fail to comprehend how much of the present is tied up with the past."

      Delete
    2. Well, I agree wholehardedly with that thought. The funny thing is that there are some Quebec "nationalists" that can name any slight and any war that happenned in the past that was lost but they don't acknowledge that there are times of cooperation as well.

      Another thing that some people should realize is that in those times, guess what, war and expanding empires was done by the British, the French, and others. Do you not think that the French conquered other people and discriminated against them, enslaved them, etc? So, let's not pretend that in history, the French are always victims.

      Delete
    3. @The Cat : That's pretty insightful, actually. Applies to Acadians and how some will repeat the horros of 1755 Ad Nauseum.

      @Roger : Agreed. Can we also get rid of the "We won that war" argument too? I find it particularly grating, as if who won a war 250 years ago decides how we'll live with each other now.

      Delete
  25. La méthode la plus efficace pour diminuer la présence des anglos est de continuer à fermer leurs écoles et d'augmenter les pénalités lorsqu'ils contreviennent aux lois linguistiques.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

      Delete
    2. "La méthode la plus efficace pour diminuer la présence des anglos est de continuer à fermer leurs écoles et d'augmenter les pénalités lorsqu'ils contreviennent aux lois linguistiques."

      what you are saying will just backfire in your sorry little face soon or later.

      Delete
    3. That's exactly what the Liberals and PQ are doing.

      Delete
    4. The same Liberals that have an anglophone as minister of immigration?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Weil

      Delete
    5. Kathleen Weil is not an Anglophone

      See NoDogsOrAnglophones entry Tuesday Jan 27, 2009

      Delete
  26. "La méthode la plus efficace pour diminuer la présence des anglos..."

    There you go folks, the truth for everone to see.

    Their true motivation.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, pretty well sums it up as I have stated before. The French Quebecois have a vitriol hatred for the Anglo minority, and would rather them disappear leaving themselves to their despotic economy and miserable lives. Perhaps, one day, they will reap what they sow and the ROC will just say "goodbye".

      Delete
    2. "The French Quebecois have a vitriol hatred for the Anglo minority"

      Most don't. Look at this:

      "En fait, 75 % des Québécois francophones ont une opinion favorable de leurs collègues anglophones alors que chez les anglophones, cette proportion est de 60,1 %."

      http://fr.canoe.ca/infos/quebeccanada/archives/2010/01/20100126-202145.html

      I don't know if you read French but it's a poll done a couple of years ago that showed that Francophones have a better opinion of Anglophones than the opposite.

      Delete
    3. You have posted out of date info "Anonymous" Apr 20, 2012 12:22PM (à la Michel Patrice)

      The results of a poll by Léger Marketing for the Association for Canadian Studies and The Gazette published in April 2012:

      "With admirable candour, 51 per cent of Québécois admitted that most members of their linguistic community do not “feel positively” about the English, to 43 per cent who claimed they did. So the 71 per cent of us English who think that most Québécois don’t “feel positively” about us aren’t imagining things."

      Here, they classify Québécois to mean French-Québécois.

      Delete
  27. @anon 11:35

    The allophones are anglicizing the French schools in Montreal where they are the majority. So far the allophones haven't become school trustees so you get school boards like Commission Scholaire de Montreal that makes French mandatory in the halls, during recess and lunch. When allophones take over the school trustee positions all that is over.

    ReplyDelete
  28. "The allophones are anglicizing the French schools in Montreal..."

    There you go folks, the truth for everone to see.

    Their true motivation.

    ReplyDelete
  29. @anon 12:00 PM

    "The allophones are anglicizing the French schools in Montreal..."

    This is what the Pur Laine media is accusing the allophones of doing, might as well take credit for it and do it anyways. After all Bill 101 is responsible for many English speaking allos forced to have their children sent to French school. Then you have complaints that there are too many non francophone that are not clones of Pur laine quebecois.


    THEIR TRUE MOTIVATION.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Seeing all what those french language militants are trying to accomplish, makes me want to see the Montreal of the 1950's rise again and prevail over this silly concept of MOURIAL as we know today, which is ,BY ALL MEANS, an ACHIEVED FAILURE that was established by the pur-laine chauvinist fuckheads 40 years ago...They think they know better and can run businesses more successfully than rest of the world, when in fact they totally SUCK AT IT,BIG TIME....their lack of competence is their skill and with that type of skill, you don't go very far ahead in life, and it also denotes that you are A MISERABLE LOSER and an ABSOLUTE FAILURE AT 101%. Now these two words that I just mentioned, clearly describe them very well. Hell, they even have them stamped on their foreheads...

    ReplyDelete
  31. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

      Delete
  32. Pour ceux et elles qui doutent de l'efficacité de nos lois en matière linguistique,je leur fais remarquer que si la loi 101 n'avais jamais existé,vous ne seriez pas en mesure de lire ce que je viens tout juste d'écrire.Nous vous avons fait évoluer malgré vous.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Foutaise. Il y a beaucoup de gens comme moi qui sont bilingues malgré nos lois linguistiques aux tendances parfois réductrices de libertés.

      La meilleure façon de s'accaparer d'une part de marché, surtout lorsqu'on est dans une position de comparative faiblesse, c'est d'essayer d'être attrayant. Pas d'y aller par un déni de service du produit du concurrent. Militants extrémistes francophones et anglophones devront tous deux finir par comprendre cela.

      Delete
  33. Anonymous argues, refuted by Anonymous and Anonymous, countered by Anonymous, supported by Anonymous.

    For crying out loud, Anonymous, please put your unique identifier (your handle) or sign your comment.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Can it be argued that the french language militants are getting greyer and greyer by the minute? This sort of paranoia, I believe is propogated by certain media types within the french media, but by and large, it seems to be going the way of the dinosaur. These younger people, usually cegep age, are militant for a time, but then they settle down...realizing that Montreal was never a french city, it is and always has been a multi ethnic cosmopolitan city!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Montreal was never a french city"

      Montréal fut exclusivement française de 1642 à 1760.

      À l'avenir essaie de réfléchir par toi-même au lieu de répéter ce que dit l'ivrogne qui quête au coin chez toi

      Delete
    2. Jean-Guy,

      Montréal fut exclusivement française de 1642 à 1760.

      While your argument is indeed correct to counter Marco's comment: Montreal was never a french city, your argument highlights the fact that for the most of its existence, Montreal is not a unilingual French city.

      See, based on your argument, Montreal is unilingually French (native languages notwithstanding) only for 118 years. The rest, 252 years, Montreal is a bilingual city. Now try to counter this. During its glory days, when Montreal was not only the prime city of Canada but also the second most important city in North America's Eastern seaboard after New York (ca 1840 - 1960), Montreal was widely open to the English language.

      Delete
    3. As a little FARM town sitting on an island, which was btw called Vill-marie, it was french. but as the industrialized city we know today, it never was and never will be. 99.5% of Montreal was built after the conquest...

      Delete
  35. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
  36. I think we need to settle this French/English BS in Quebec once and for all. We need another referendum, except that this time we can do it based on who do you want to pay taxes to: The French community or the English community. These taxes will pay for: Education, Health, Administration. Things like roads will have to be maintained by both communities. People who vote to join the French community can have language laws, be restricted in their choice of linguistic instruction, signage, and all of the other benefits the nationalists offer. Those who vote to be part of the English community can have access to the advantages contained therein.

    Any questions?

    ReplyDelete
  37. I agree with Marco that your average hard bitten francophone ethnic nationalist is either a full blown geezer or approaching geezerhood. All the sondages bear this out. Look at the bald and grey heads that peer out at you from the vitriolic comments in Vigile, a blog which is a refuge for old fashioned anglophobes and ethnic nationalists.

    That hard boiled opinion group do not survey Quebec society with any optimism. Rampant anglicisation. Offensive immigrants who have the effrontery to offer sevice first in english before they switch to unsatisfactory heavily accented french. The ROC, also called "English Canada", that engages in "Quebec bashing" (which is known in the ROC as "fair comment" or "constructive criticism"). Crisssse ! It's a wasteland out there and the imminent demise of the only french speaking nation in the Americas should be obvious to you *!!#** anglos. But those aging warriors - militants of the first hour - know exactly what our "collective" future requires. Oh yes, they know EXACTLY how we poor anglo-quebecois should behave and they are happy to tell us.

    No thanks. And notwithstanding modern health care there is a core group of ethnic nationalists who are getting ready to check out - as Canadian citizens, every one. How ironic given the nationalist truism of the 1970s that youth, and thus the future, belonged to souverainistes. I'm still a free man and an optimist and I plan to remain so, regardless of what language I speak. If there is ONE thing we know with CERTAINTY from observing the last 50 years of Quebec politics, re : Vive le Quebec Libre, an independent Quebec would be a lot less libre than Quebec as a part of Canada.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Sandy McTire,

    If there is ONE thing we know with CERTAINTY from observing the last 50 years of Quebec politics, re : Vive le Quebec Libre, an independent Quebec would be a lot less libre than Quebec as a part of Canada.

    If I may add: independent Quebec would also be less French than the Canadian province of Quebec.

    ReplyDelete
  39. I get the overwhelming impression that being told all ones life in quebec only schools and media a one-sided, heavily edited version of history, emotionally laden to 'steer' youth to believe they are not only under constant threat, but were peaceful innocents, attacked by corrupt evil that must be destroyed, makes it real enough to them that no logic or fact or non-quebec history book will be anything other than an evil plot and 'english propoganda for the war on the french.' I do not actually think any of my new friends can be convinced that there is no war, no-one cares, and our history books say nothing emotional or unkind. We sang french songs and learned about snowshoes, we did not recite a list of any wrong we could imagine and edit out each time we behaved the same. We COULD. The history of my ancestors out west was horrifying. None of us are petty or self indulgent enough to waste time crying about it now, we never use it as an excuse for bad behaviour or to harm others or to get special rights, we all moved on. I am sometimes cornered and asked, 'what do they say about us in Alberta??' with the confrontational, yet ready to be vindicated tone of zealots, perched to launch another hate diatribe on me, and eager for fodder. I tell them,' nothing. No-one cares. I heard you eat meat pie'. This only results in ranting to 'educate me' about the insidious plots against the french, because I am obviously as uneducated and ignorant as they were told by the separatist run media all the hillbillies in Alberta are. How thoughtful.

    Having studied Archaeology in Italy, I was happy to go to the museum here. Have you seen the video? It is voiced by ;the land' and 'the land' loves the french, who are 'her people'. Not the natives, or those other races who arrived alongside the french. Who are all outsiders, evil invaders, or irrelevant. The french were the only settlers here! Did you know? When there were difficulties with settlements of other cultures, the non-existent settlements must suddenly have appeared fully fledged from thin air! And wars were lost by other cultures apparently dropping in that very day from space! I had no idea they were also lone founders of things in america! And my god, the happy, thankful natives loved those deadly jobs building structures for france, they jumped to have them, because they were so nimble! I felt sad when the cry voice told me about the english existing, never noticed the irish, scottish or spanish being unmentioned, and felt happy when it cried joyfully about the french settling ( the land's TRUE PEOPLE)- and when they used the same scary monster voice for the british as for the onset of the great depression, I was suitably horrified by these monsters. How thoughtful to provide this framework for each attendee at the museum of history, before entering.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Myidoru, you got it right. As immigrants that decided to settle in Qc, we got the same indoctrination in the francisation classes. Oh joy... that was fun. Too bad that most of the people from those classes were inclined to draw their own conclusions. It really reminded me of the propaganda classes during the communism - ech!

      Delete
  40. I'm American, married to a Canadian and living in Quebec. I had no idea things were this bad here. I feel like I moved to a third-world country and time-warped to the 50's or maybe the 60's. My perspective is unique in that since I am an American citizen, I can live and work in the USA and I don't have to stay in Quebec or even Canada. I have a "way out" as it were. I see people here freaking out over the little things like languages and see the big structures of their lives crumbling (literally the tunnels and roads and the health care problems, doctor shortages, corruption and beaurocracy etc.) I am actually incredibly sad for those French who limit themselves and their children by hating English so much. English is vitally important and it's sad to think so many kids will be "stuck" in Quebec their whole lives and stuck with this ridiculous picayune crap they focus on. There's a whole world out there and it seems the Quebecois are terrified of it.

    ReplyDelete
  41. "Not the natives, or those other races who arrived alongside the french."

    There's really nothing more sickening then the Quebecois' selective memory when it comes to who was here first. They see only what they want to see and demand respect at every turn when they give none. I hardly think coming here and kicking the Native peoples off their own land, out of their homes and forcing them to speak French was RESPECTFUL. The Quebecois deserve to get what they give.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. True fact : by the time the french colonized Quebec (the city site), the previous inhabitants had mysteriously disapeared since Cartier's last visit. Possibly by disease or war. The French tended to get along fairly well with the natives, since they were growing relatively slowly (60 000 people in Canada by 1760, as opposed to a million in New England) and often intermarried with them. Since there was no competition for real estate, there was no need to "kick Native peoples off their own land" or anything of the short.

      The big wigs in France were understandably just as racist and dismissive of their native allies as anyone, but the boots on the grounds quickly learned how to get the Natives' respect. What they would often do, at the very beginning, is drop off a child to live among the natives and learn their language, to later serve as an interpret (truchement) for the French.

      All in all, the French treatment of the Natives in North America, specifically, was not so bad. Not by better intentions, just by the accident of circumstances. I mean, I guess the missionaries convinced the catholic Mohawks to leave their brothers and relocate to Kahwanake, but there was no business of reserves or forcing people to learn french or anything. That came later, when the population of Canada exploded in the 1800's. By that time, of course, it was the British that were negotiating the reserves.

      If it would have been any different if the French had still been in charge will forever be an unanswered question. I don't really think so, but certainly the way you describe what happened is overly simplistic.

      Delete