Friday, February 24, 2012

French versus English Volume 48

Bilingualism war in Ontario hospital

"CORNWALL, Ontario - A community in eastern Ontario has decided to withhold funding for the renovation of the Cornwall Community Hospital (CCH) to protest against the bilingual policy of the institution.
In January 2011, the hospital was designated to deliver services in French under the Act respecting French language services in Ontario. According to the Mayor of South Stormont, Bryan McGillisunilingual anglophone nurses cannot get a job in the facility.
"I have received several complaints last year from English-speaking nurses who say they have no chance for advancement in their careers (in hospital)," said Mr. McGillis.
The City Council has chosen this week to no longer pay the $ 30,000 yearly hospital fee. This sum is part of a total budget of $300,000 which is supposed to be paid by the municipality between 2006 and 2015 to cover part of the
$120 million redevelopment project.

The former director of the board of the Cornwall Community Hospital, Dany Tombler, even suggested citizens refrain from giving gifts to the hospital.
Deputy Mayor of South Stormont, Tammy Hart, has already denounced French signage in the past.
"Language policy is a blatant injustice against the English-speaking citizens of the region," she said.

Mayor McGillis also argues that language rights should not prevent someone from finding work.
The Chair of the Board of Directors of HCC, Helene Periard, is concerned that the council resolution of South Stormont will interfere with the fundraising campaign of the hospital.
However, she defended the
bilingualism
policy because it gives the institution the ability to serve the Francophone community."  Read the original story by Greg Peerenboom in French 

Madeleine Meilleur, Minister Responsible for Francophone Affairs writing in the Ottawa Sun, offered a spirited defense of the government's bilingual position;
"I happened to be a nurse before being a minister. I know the extent to which, for a Franco-Ontarian, receiving health care in French is a matter of quality care and not a linguistic quirk.
I observed the fragility of francophone patients who, although bilingual, were more comfortable speaking in French. French is also an integral part of the professional skills required to offer quality services to francophone patients." Read the rest of the story

Elite French B-School offers English degree


Quebec's top French business school the École des hautes études commerciales (HEC) of the Universite de Montreal has offered English to some degree for a number of years, but now in an effort to attract a more diverse student body, is offering a complete MBA degree to students who will no longer have to take any French courses at all.
Kathleen Grant the director of communications said;
 "These students will not completely escape French. They will go to the cafeteria to eat "pâté chinois" instead of "Chinese pie." (she meant to say "Sheperd's Pie.') They hear French every day and are immersed in a French environment," ...Ahem

As you can imagine
Jean-Paul Perreault, president  of Impératif français is sorely disappointed. According to the French language militant,  the argument that English is the language of business is fallacious and should not motivate changes in course offerings of universities. Read the story in French 

The two faces of the Ndp..

"Is this collage a metaphor for duplicitous Ndp policy?


Docs describe dangerous French-Canadian disease

A while back, I linked to a story that indicated that francophone Quebecers had a shorter lifespan than Anglos.
Experts attributed this to lifestyle differences, but this story, recently posted, may offer a different reason;

"Some U.S. doctors are urging patients to get checked out for a potentially deadly genetic disease they say was passed down from French-Canadian forefathers.
The hereditary ailment causes dangerously high cholesterol levels and is particularly prevalent in certain parts of Quebec.
Maine cardiologist Dr. Robert Weiss said there is an unusually high number of cases of the disease in the region near the city of Lewiston, which welcomed waves of French-Canadian migrant workers in the late 1800s". Read the rest of the story

'The French are right to resist Global English'

By Christopher Caldwell  for the Financial Post
 "One of the odd stories to come out of the French-speaking province of Quebec last year was the announcement that intensive English courses would be offered to students in state schools. Odd, because in the past half-century, much of the Quebecois identity has been built on resisting English. Authorities throw the book at people for doing things that would be normal elsewhere in Canada. Last autumn, the Montreal newspaper La Presse revealed that two real estate executives had made presentations in English to a Montreal-based pension fund, violating the province’s language laws, which give workers the right to a French-speaking environment.
Now, school authorities in Quebec City are questioning whether the time is ripe for introducing those English classes after all. Their hesitation has left French-speaking parents angry. On one hand, those parents want their children to cherish their own community and its language. On the other hand, English is the international language of business, and their children will have a hard time climbing the social ladder without it.
Self-contradiction besets all governments as they try to work out a role for English in their national culture...."       Read the rest of the story..... Link Alternate Link

Pardon our French

"More than 45,000 Manitobans say the first language they learned as a child was French, yet more than 96% of them report speaking just as much, if not more, English on a daily basis.
So if that’s the case, is it really worth it for governments, cultural organizations and schools to promote the use of French?
Well, pardon our French, but you’d better believe it, say Manitoba francophones.
“It’s the fundamental principle of the Canadian federation: linguistic duality. We want Canada to be a country where there’s a strong and vibrant presence of French-speaking communities not just in Quebec, but across the country,” said Guy Jourdain, executive director of the provincial government’s Francophone Affairs Secretariat." Read the rest of the story

By the way, at that same link there's a funny video of English Winnipeggers trying to pronounce French street names.

Chasing conventions away

The international convention business is something every city tries desperately to attract, the economic spinoffs are so important that most cities invest heavily in facilities and even offer subsidies to attract them. A three to five day convention can easily dump up to ten million dollars into the host city's hotel and restaurant industry. More importantly, these dollars come from outside the community and represent an economic windfall. Like any other city, Quebec City does its best to attract such conventions and has recently landed a pretty big one in SportAccord International Convention which will take place in May.
Of course the usual language critics have come out of the woodwork to complain that the organization, which reunites the various sports federations related to the Olympic movement, operates in English only.
It seems that not only do language militants want to control language in Quebec, they want international organizations that choose Quebec as their destination for conventions to operate in French as well.
Commenting on the situation  Impératif français, Jean-Paul Perreault said that the situation was 'humiliating' and 'contemptuous;'
 "In the national capital, to see that a conference on an issue as important as sports,  will operate with a highly anglicized content, where  the website is not even available in French, where the place of French will be trivialized, that in itself is quite revolting. Link{Fr}
This isn't an isolated incident, last year our intrepid defender of the faith Louis Prefontaine complained to the OQLF about another convention held in English, The International Water Association. Link{Fr}

My favorite complaint about unilingual conventions comes from a militant website where a reader complained that a notice, stuck up on a door to a meeting room in the Universite de Montreal was in English only.
It seemed a little strange, so I did a little research and found out that a small, American knitting group, called the Pattern Review, had organized a weekend trip to Montreal and rented out accommodations at the university dorms (it was summer.)
Perhaps next time this intrepid group of sewers comes to Quebec to spend money, they make place on the bus for a translator, so that students won't be offended by an English sign!!

The pot calling the kettle black

I chuckled over this story written by Gilles Proulx, Quebec's most vocal defender of the French language.
After visiting Haiti he complained about the wide use of Creole on the island, a dialect of French that he finds distasteful.
"A disturbing phenomenon: There is widespread use of Creole, even among radio hosts, and this idiom is disjointing the French language. Signs are also often in Creole. The Haitian people risk cutting themselves off from the world by falling back on its Patois, says the President of the Chamber of Commerce and Industry of Haiti, Herve Denis, a graduate of Laval University, who married a Quebecois. Link{Fr}
(Thanks to SAMUEL for the story)

Smells like 'bullsheet!'

Our good friend Mario Beaulieu, president and chief bottle washer of a bunch of French language supremacist organizations has once again given us the benefit of his wonderful statistical analysis.
"In 2006 Statistics Canada reported that  86 % of young francophones rated their knowledge of English as passable to excellant.  Link{Fr}
Hmmm.... Considering that only about 50% of Francophone Quebecers can speak any English at all it's quite an interesting figure!!

War on religion continues to rage

In the raging war between religion and the Quebec education department, parents wishing to excuse their children from the generic 'all-religions-are-equal-and-good' study course, (mandatory for all students) lost their appeal in the Supreme Court.
Adding insult to injury, a Quebec teacher, with the backing of her principal, removed the last line from a famous Edith Piaf song because it mentioned God, much to the chagrin of just about everyone, including the minister of education.

 

No French please, we're Flemish!

Readers might recall a story about how a French school board in Montreal has banned any other language but French from its schoolyard. Here's an amusing story of the shoe being fitted to the other foot;
"Children are being punished with detention and language lessons if they are caught speaking French in the playground of Sint-Pieters college, a primary school in a Flemish-speaking suburb of Brussels. One father attacked the policy at Sint-Pieterscollege because it threatened to punish children, too young to choose their mother tongue, for a conflict being fought out between French- and Dutch-speaking adults tussling for political control of Belgium.
''This is linguistic wickedness,'' he told La Capitale newspaper. ''It is not fair and affects only French-speaking kids. The school's decision is dangerous.'' Link

OQLF reveals 'special' relationships

The Office québécois de la langue française, (OQLF) has revealed that it has entered into 'special' language agreements with over 60 companies, allowing them to operate partially outside the terms of Bill 101.
The companies are generally head offices that operate branch locations outside Quebec and/or companies doing research or very involved in very high tech enterprises, like Bombardier, which is asking the OQLF to allow 4,000 employees to work exclusively in English.
These waivers have been going on since 1981, but the numbers have slowly diminished.
For a list of the related companies see the list HERE.
(Credit for the story ...Lord Dorchester)

Sugar Sammy sells out bilingual concert

It's still nice to know that there are people out there who love and enjoy speaking English and French and are proud to embrace another culture. 

Fully one third of Quebec Anglophones make a life for themselves with a Francophone spouse and so there's not as much animosity out there as militants on both sides would have us believe.
Its even possible for federalists and sovereigntists to be friends, I know because I live this reality everyday.
The media doesn't talk about cooperation and even blogs like mine play up the differences because, unfortunately, harmony is not an interesting read. 

I regret that if my missives come off leaving the impression that I dislike francophones, NOTHING cold be further from the truth. 
I complain because I want things to get better.

Jut the same, things are pretty good. In Montreal where I live, there isn't the language tension that outsiders, those in the RoC or RoQ imagine.
We seem to get along fairly well.
Nobody talks about the good things, the cooperation, the camaraderie and friendships that cross ethnic and linguistic lines in Quebec, because it doesn't sell newspapers, as they say.


For thirty years, I played in a garage hockey league where everyone was welcome. The dressing room was a magical Tower of Babel, where everyone kidded each other in all sorts of languages.
I call this the "ALLEZ, shoot!' phenomenon.


Montreal comedian Sugar Sammy is a product of the Bill 101 generation, son of an immigrant family, he was forced into French school, but just the same adopted and embraced Anglophone culture.


Now many French language militants will find this offensive, but it is a Quebec reality.


Emerging as one of Canada's best comedians, he is doing something that I don't believe anyone has tried before, a bilingual comedy concert.

Now if you'd have asked me before, I'd have said that there's a market for something like that, albeit pretty small.
Well, Sugar Sammy has sold out the entire run of thirty concert dates. Impressive.


Concert goers better have a thick skin, whether you are English, French or Ethnic he is going to get you and his observations are not only humorous, but caustic and biting.

He is the quintessential Montrealer, bilingual, urbane, confident and successful. 
Catch a bit of his shtick here.




Watch Sugar Sammy do his thing in French WITH PAULINE MAROIS!!!   HERE

130 comments:

  1. TO EDITOR, REGARDING YOUR LAST COMMENTS TO ME

    YOU are the one running a blog attacking any individual or organization connected to nationalists in Québec, and producing biased, incorrect, demeaning, insulting and bigotted ad hominems on Québec culture and values. Someone attacking another ethnic or cultural group with the same zeal (800+ posts in three years), like Muslims, Jews, blacks, mexicans, italians, etc, would be branded a bigoted zealot. Poutinism? Marois throwing in the towel when she's leading? Har har har! Par for the course here at No Dogs.

    Don't get me wrong, rational criticism is fine, but that's not what you're doing. You are intentionally painting a false, misleading and slanderous picture of my province and I find it repulsive. More than 95% of francophone Québécois would ROTFL at your portrayal, as would most of your anglo bretheren I suspect, which seems to be validated by the rather narrow and simplistic points of view of your most dedicated supporters. I'll also note the anemic turnout for that anglo protest you supported last summer near McGill. The real tragededy is that visitors to your site from outside Québec have no idea how distorted and disconnected form reality your site really is.

    Lastly, on the topic of your identity, I honestly understand why someone wouldn't want to be associated with your writings. Your refusal to do so is telling enough. How hard have you worked on this site for the last few years? I'd guess at least a few THOUSAND hours. Most genuine journalists would envy that kind of output. Yet they, unlike you, put their name on each of their articles, opinions or editorials. Their reputation is what gives their views and opinions weight. It's how I know that Jack Todd is an idiot, that André Pratte is a good writer with whom I often disagree, and that Jean-Francois Lisée is someone I like. I don't know who your are, or what drives you to continue this crusade but I do know that you have no reputation. You attack, ridicule and criticise but hide behind your anonymity, and deep down I suspect that you don't really believe half of what you put forward. If you did you wouldn't hesitate to fut your name on it, like everybody else that matters. Maybe you're just a troll, No Dogs.

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    1. Hmmmm.
      Time for a Valium?

      Still no rational arguments...same old, same old.... sigh....

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    2. Dear Editor, I wouldn't worry: it's only Seppie, who probably isn't even from Quebec and hardly speaks any French, who got miffed at being picked for only writing one-liners (and spending too much time having to review the translation from Google...), trying to demonstrate he's not the kind of troll who does not offer any counter argument, so he has to resort to his first language to keep on top of what he wants to say. Of course, given that there is no reasoning behind his trolling other than the will to stir up a fight, he can't deal with your arguments, so he has a go at you...

      Delete
    3. Har har har har har… How ironic. The editor of this blog is criticized for not revealing his real name by someone who uses an alias while criticizing. Unless his/her real name is "Not The One". Doesn’t that beat all...

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    4. "Dear Editor, I wouldn't worry: it's only Seppie..."

      Ben oui,c'est ça mister parano.

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    5. @ The Quebec Partition,

      "Not The One" is a different individual from the piece of garbage that identifies himself as Seppie, OQLF, 101 ou 401, and Justin membre honoraire du PQ. The latter case is not denying these multiple personalities.

      I'll bet that "Not The One" is really so upset because the awful truth about Quebec is being broadcast internationally over the web by this blog. It would be great if "60 Minutes" did another report on the racist language laws that exist in this province.

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    6. Les personnes intelligentes vont certainement arriver à la conclusion que 6 millions de francophones ne représente pas une grande menace pour 350 000 000 d'anglophones.Les anglos vont encore jouer le rôle d'oppresseur sur les minorités.Et vous qu'en pensez-vous?

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    7. I think you are living in the 1800's and worrying about the English is passé. English and French speakers get along well on the island of Montreal. It's only some hardcore separatists who have a problem.

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    8. Ohhhhhhhhhhhh....I dunno, Not the One. I think the Editor simply "bested ya" (to be recited with a Scottish accent). The Editor tends to tell it like it is, but it is seppies like yourself who tend to embellish verbal and statistical lies and at best, "half-truths". No, I'm not laughing one iota at what the Editor wrote, just your embellishing your wishful reaction!!!

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    9. I've been away for sometime, but it looks like nothing's changed... apart from Seppie being smoked out (after all, he didn't refute my accusation...)

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    10. The Editor has full rights to his opinions and will not reveal his identity because he knows from my experience what happens if you do - so you think that the anglopbobic machine that is our own provincial govt is not biased ? Get real man, everyone rights with a bias, nobody is impartial, but at least he uses facts and repetitive documented experience to back up his claims:
      http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2011/05/17/que-militia-death-threats.html

      Delete
  2. Note: A creole - by definition - is a language unto itself, not a dialect of a language, not a 'patois'.

    That said, I once went to Java and was really concerned with all the Javanese speaking Javanese and writing signs in Javanese and stuff. I hope these people will learn French so they can keep up with the world. :-/

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    1. Where is Haiti Cherie, maybe she can open her mouth about that article.

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    2. Considering who their immediate neighbours are, Haitians would find Spanish--or even English---more helpful.

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    3. One interesting thing I learned about Creole is it's spoken somewhat differently between Haitians and Mauritians, yet they seem to be able to pick up on each other's dialects despite living about 7 time zones and two hemispheres away from each other. Similarly, those who speak Dutch, Flemish and Afrikaans can communicate with each other as well. Creole is an offshoot of French (and I'm told English) while Flemish and Afrikaans are offshoots of Dutch. Yiddish is an offshoot of German and other Central and Eastern European languages. The simple fact of the matter is, there are many bastardized languages out there, and so what? What are these morons getting so upset about, especially in other countries where they have NO opinion?

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    4. @ Mr. Sauga

      I think that Gilles Proulx is using his moral superiority complex to tell other how they should speak. Not new for him. He does the same in Quebec regarding anglos/allos.

      The funny this is: Have you ever heard him speak? He sounds like he speaks creole. Mad creole, to be exact, with all his ranting and raving! lol

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    5. You're RIGHT! How foolish of me to forget that GP has an I.Q. of 10,000, esp. while performing his rant on Mario Dumont's political program way back when. Editor pasted the YouTube piece on his blog. «Tête KAH-r-r-ray» this and «tête KAH-r-r-ray» that, and all on the federally-funded SRC. Had Don Cherry even THOUGHT of performing a similar rant, his segment and he would have been removed from the HNIC broadcasts.

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  3. Yet another example of how anglophones feel they are entitled to jobs, even if they don't have the skills. Language is not a skill, unless it's speaking english, presumably. I'd like to see how those anglo-ontarians would react to not being able to receive english services at *their* hospital.

    "Language rights should not stop people from getting jobs!"

    Presumably billingual services should arise magically by themselves, even if they hire exclusively unilingual anglophones.

    I'll believe language is not important to anglophones when they are the ones struggling to receive the most basic of public services. We're not talking CEOs here - we're talking nurses. Those are kind of the ones interacting directly with patients, it might be important that they understand patients.

    What a joke.

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    1. To specify - the francophone (mother tongue) population of Cornwall is about 24%. The billingual population is 43%. Yet finding nurses to service a quarter of the population is just too hard, so they'll bully their *own hospital* by withholding funds! (see end for stat can link)

      Imagine if Montreal, which yields similar statistics (lower amount of mother tongue anglophones (17% on MTL island vs 24% Cornwallians), but more bilinguals (56% vs 43%)), decided to withhold funding to their hospitals. Withholding funding, not because the hospital is forced to operate billingually, but simply because they are trying (and failing*)to hire applicants who know english!

      "Sorry, but requiring nurses to know english is just an unfair advantage to anglophones, and our poor francophone nurses won't be able to get promoted."

      Where's your sense of fair-play, Editor? Surely you can see that if the tables were turned you'd be rioting in the middle of Montreal yourself?

      *only 60% of Cornwall's billingual positions were filled with billingual applicants last year, according to their own website.

      http://www12.statcan.ca/census-recensement/2006/dp-pd/92-596/P1-2.cfm?Lang=eng&T=CMA&GEOCODE=501&PRCODE=35&TID=0

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    2. I beg your pardon....
      Where on Earth, in reporting the story above, did I take an editorial position against bilingual service?
      I actually support the minister's position....

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    3. You did not take an editorial position.

      I'm sorry if I implied you did - the lack of an editorial position left it ambiguous whether or not you agreed with the mayor. I was trying to ask for said editorial position. But I guess I was too reactiong too emotionally to convey that appropriately.

      My appologies.

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    4. So is it ok for unilingual French nurses to work at English hospitals in French? this represents a fair number of nurses at the MGH, JGH and RVH. If someone made a rule that all employees at the McGill University health Centre had to be bilingual the French language militants would be up in arms! Deux poids, Deux measures!

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    5. Cornwall was not requiring all of its nurses to work in french. Actually they weren't really allowed - it was made very clear that the language of administration was english.

      Rather they wanted to hire enough front-line nurses so that francophones would be able to get services.

      The correct analogy is to compare UQAM being punished for trying to hire english-speaking nurses, even if it's only to improve their english services.

      It certainly is un poids, deux mesures, but now how you think.

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    6. @anon 8:27 AM,

      Well the QUebec government mandated that all English hospitals must be bilingual while French Hospitals couldn't make bilingualism a requisite for getting a job. Quebecois pur laine have no moral high ground to talk about those who are against bilingualism outside Quebec. Pure hypocrisy.

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    7. Good thing I am not a Quebecker then. I'm acadian.

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    8. Voyez vous my friend,c'est exactement la situation que we want to avoid ici au Quebec,because notre langue is not all en anglais yet.Est-ce que tu me understand?

      MDR/Lol

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    9. @ Anon., Feb 24 at 2:53 PM,

      "Good thing I am not a Quebecker then. I'm acadian."

      Are you the guy that used to post here as "Calgary Anonymous" and wouldn't admit that he was Acadian?

      Delete
    10. Like Editor, I too support the Minister's position, but where he and I part ways is I see this as legitimate retaliation by the mayor. It's reprehensible there is a medical facility in Cornwall or the region that will not serve those who don't speak French. This is Ontario, not Quebec! I also see Howard Galganov's appeal to the Ontario Superior Court over obligatory bilingual signs in the Township of Russell as legitimate (and that means unilingual French signs are fair game), and the fact English and French speaking children are segregated on school buses as ridiculous and an unnecessary duplicate cost. What the South Stormont mayor is doing is "tatting" the "No Dogs or Anglophones" medical facility's tit (please interpret that last word accordingly).

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    11. I would like to argue a counter-point.

      I imagine it's not easy to get french services in Cornwall; presumably, a medical facility who operates in french with the purpose of providing services that are hard to obtain might prioritize francophone clients for those who need them before accepting patients who can use any of the other city's clinics.

      If it was very difficult to obtain medical services in say, Trois-Rivières, woudn't it make sense for an english-service medical clinic to prioritize anglo patients? Or the same for a mandarin-speaking clinic in Vancouver?

      Maybe it's not *only* discrimination.

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  4. The link for the Gilles Proulx article is broken. Here's the working link: http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2012/02/16/haiti-la-necessiteuse

    And Sammy refects the reality of a LOT of montrealers and greater montreal area inhabitants that switch between two (or 3) languages, m'incluant dans ce group.

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    1. If you read the comments on the article, I can only see people who disagree with the author, and call him out on it. Perhaps franco-Quebeckers aren't as racist as is usually portrayed?

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    2. it's not Franco-Quebecers we target, it's those damn bigoted seppies....it's true they're not helping the cause for french people in term of reputation, thus prompting english people to throw all of them into the same pile.

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    3. "Franco-Quebecers" ?

      Écrivez-vous sino-Chinois aussi? MDR!

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    4. @OQLF

      Le jour où 20% de la population chinoise sera non-chinoise, alors je préciserai, oui.

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    5. Alors nous pouvons dire anglo-américain ?

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    6. Je crois que le terme correct est "WASP"

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    7. Tout le monde au québec ne sont pas simplement des Québécois?Je ne comprend plus...Éclairez-moi svp.

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    8. Je voulais juste préciser que je parlais des québecois d'origine francaise, et non pas des allos ou des anglos

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    9. Seppie etc is so funny... as we all know of course, not all Quebecers are francophone and not all francophones are Quebecers!

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    10. ... and then I'M the one that gets laughed at for talking about "ethnic French-Canadians" or "old-stock Quebecers" because "francophone" or "Quebecer" as an ethnolinguistic identifier is ambiguous.

      And yes, I DO use "Anglo-American", "Hispanic-American", "African-American"/Black, and "Asian-American". Theodore Roosevelt and his nationalistic ideological successors everywhere can kiss my hyphenated ass. Call a horse a horse and not a potato.

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    11. To the second respondant on this thread (Anon @ 6:57AM yesterday): What is Premier John James "Goldilocks" Charest? He and his minions...uh, I mean "yes (wo)men"...umm...flunkies...loyal puppy dogs...puppets...whatever you want to call his underlings, they are enforcing that Great Charter of Charters, the Great Language Manifesto, the Post-Quiet Revolution Bible, whatever you want to call that language thinggie the live, eat, sleep and breathe by, with as much vim and vigor, rigor and whatever else you want to call it just as much as the pro-seppies.

      This New, New Post-Quiet Revolution Testament of the Quebec Bible is thumped equally hard by seppies and "feddies", as they so-call themselves.

      These are ALL "Franco-Quebecers" and they ALL support the thing, so maybe you better re-define what you're saying!

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  5. For the NDP Picture - I'm not sure I get it. Is one photo in the ROC and the other in Quebec? Is the idea that the NDP is catering to nationalism in Quebec, while asserting a Canada-only image in the ROC?

    Given that they now represent a number of Nationalist Quebeckers, I see it as inevitable that they have to, you know, represent them. At least when in Quebec Proper.

    But the NDP has a feel-good "Politically Correct" approach to mostly everything, so I don't believe they've actually had to change anything. They've been on the side of official billingualism and recognising Quebec as a distinct society all along. A Nationalist-Federalist Quebecker could vote NDP without betraying his cause for a very long time - but didn't. So I'm not sure the NDP has actually changed it's position.

    For instance, remember that the Acadian NDP MP, Yvon Godin, was the one who proposed last year to require supreme court judges to be billingual. The vote got rejected by the senate, I believe, after it had passed in chamber by being voted in by the opposition. Democracy at work...

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    1. The deliciousness of that NDP two-faced policy has not sunk in yet, but it sure will by the next election. By then they will have had a new leader in place for about three years (if (s)he lasts that long!) and they'll either have to commit to "English Canada" or "French Quebec". It won't be both because if you can suck and blow at the same time, you can't do it for long without looking like some kind of mythical Pollyanna, or at least trying to live that mythical philosophy.

      Simply put, the NDP is going to have to choose its greatest loyalty. Will it be the 78 seats Quebec will have in the next election, or the 252 seats outside of Quebec? 78 vs 252? Normally I'd say do the math, but where will they get more seats? It may well be in Quebec--or it may not! Dilemmas, dilemmas...

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    2. Mulroney, Trudeau, and Chrétien managed it... Not sure why it's beyond the powers of the NDP.

      Actually, every PM of Canada except Harper have won their majorities with significant support both within and outside Quebec.

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  6. "The vote got rejected by the senate"

    At least the senate showed some sanity. Currently, Quebec is about 22% of the population with 33 % represenation on the supreme court guaranteed (overrepresentation) . Under the silly bilingual bill proposed by French Advocate Yves Godin, the current chief justice would not have been admitted. She became bilingual after being inducted into the supreme court. Stupid ass and Official Commissioner of advocating the French Language, Grahame Fraser, made the mistake of giving the current supreme court chief justice as shining example of how an bilingual Albertan could be named to the court. In fact, under Godin's bill, she would have never been considered.

    On the issue of French in Cornwall...I followed this closely and it would seem from comments posted in the local paper that there is widespread disagreement on the Hospitals Policy which prompted one town to with hold development funding on a new hospital. About time some poltiicans woke up to the fact that enforced bilingualism is a pharce. No issues...there is need for nurses in the West and the US and I am sure the local nurses will get the message that they are not welcome in Cornwall.

    Currently there are less that 13% of the population that is unilingually French...The feds have mandated a 40% bilingual hiring policy in the civil service (OLA) . Clearly, the figures don't seem to agree based upon an actual need basis. For instance in AB...they have a 5% quota for bilinguals where there is less than 1% of housholds that commonly use French in the home (the litmus test for need) Of course, of the 1%, most of them can use english so there is really no need for bilingual services.



    It is quite clear that the French (mostly from Quebec) , for whatever reason, have an agenda to force their GD language down everyones throats. Like we really need bilingual anglo/francos in the post offices in Western Canada where the french language is for the most part never spoken. Just another waste of money.


    2.4 billion per year for what....Nothing....The level of bilingualism in Canada has not changed markedly since the OLA was adopted some 40 years ago. The definition of insanity" doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results" Albert Einstein.

    On another issue, I don't see our esteemed language commissioner (Fraser) wading into the language issue in Quebec where the very existence of 101 is disriminatory against the anglo minority. Seems like the door swings only one way for the Office of the Official Language Commissioner.

    It is really quite disgusting.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The only thing disgusting is your attitude. With an attitude like that it's no wonder Quebeckers want to seperate. Heck, it makes me want to seperate, and I'm as far from a Quebecker as you'll find!

      Do you honestly believe that our billingual services are solely for the sake of our unilingual francophones? (though that would give credence to some Quebecker's beliefs that it's only by keeping a portion of their population unilingual that the feds will continue to provide them with services)

      Delete
    2. By the way, educate yourself : only 5% of jobs in the west are designated billingual.

      Unilingual anglophones can't get jobs. Yeah, right.

      http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/LOP/researchpublications/prb0256-e.htm#A-Language

      Delete
    3. YO, Anon yesterday @ 7:47AM: You want to separate? Go to Quebec and GO FOR IT! The OLA is very much weighted in favour of Quebec. I AM for separation, i.e., throwing Quebec out of Canada. Quebec has a higher debt-to-GDP ration than anywhere else in Canada, probably all of North America, and THEY expect the REST OF US to pay for their overpriced programs?

      They have a $7-a-day daycare program that is accessible to people earning pro athletes and their multimillion dollar contracts, retired politicians 50-odd years old who sit on their asses collecting six-figure pensions greater than 95% of the working population, and even welfare recipients who don't want to take care of their children all day. I'm good with it being available to the working poor who at least are going out to work for tawdry wages but still contribute to the economy by their barely rewarded toil. If this was done, the program may actually be affordable.

      As for those protesting university students, faggeddaboudit! I agree university should be affordable to those who really need financing. There should be a means test for university tuition and other expenses, but because Quebec let the thing go for decades without controlling it, it's no longer affordable. Even with the increases, it will STILL be the cheapest tuition in North America when all the additions kick in. I managed to graduate debt-free in the early 80s going to a Montreal university, but those tuitions EVEN THEN were cheap, and they were not adjusted to inflation for YEARS after that. Had they controlled the costs better then, the transition would not be as severe as it is now, but....... My bro, who graduated in the mid-70s graduated with debt as tuitions only froze when inflation was really bad in the latter 70s and into the 80s. Inflation rates of 12% in 1981 and 10.5% in 1982 with 0% raises in tuition were a blessing at the time, but a curse in the future, and that future is NOW!

      Quebec seems to always come out with these formidably expensive social programs that the rest of Canada doesn't have, but THEY expect US to pay for them. The way I see it, equalization payments to Quebec should be cut to $1 per Quebecker. Actually, really believe it should be $0 per Quebecker, but I believe there is some kind of consititutional obligation to support MB, QC and the Atlantics; nevertheless, I think the formula should include what these provinces are CAPABLE of doing. Editor a few weeks ago disclosed how resource-rich Quebec really is, and that potential income should be built into the formula. Same goes for NF that is now richer because of their oil discoveries. Such income should not be exempt from the equalization
      formula, but I'd still give the nod to NF because they are loyal to confederation. Quebec is not and that's the biggest rub of all.

      Delete
  7. "It is really quite disgusting."

    Tout à fait daccord.Une seule solution s'impose et vous savez laquelle.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. www.monster.ca or you can always try www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/sc/jobs/jobbank.shtml.. or even
      www.jobpostcanada.com/

      wish you great success.

      Delete
    2. Yep, one solution. Fire the language commissioner! lol

      Delete
    3. Non merci,nous avons déjà Emploi Québec.

      Delete
    4. then why don't you start looking for a job in emploi Quebec???

      Btw, it is affiliated with the canadian site just so you know!!!

      Delete
  8. "Tout à fait daccord"

    Alors, Bien... prendre la porte seppie. Notre Canada sans aucune des Quebecois sera tres bien. Pour moi, je penser vous etes tres mal pour tout les vrais Canadiens.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    2. Buddy, I'm sorry to say but your incoherent, half-baked French is not really helping things out much... rather the opposite, I'm afraid!

      Delete
    3. What's to help out? They want to leave to let them leave....better for both sides in the end. Benefits abound on both sides with a divorce. Canada would be a much stronger country without Quebec (have a look at Scowens book) . Quebec separtists (not sovereigntists) believe the same on their side of the fence (read some of JF Lisees editorials) . So what's the problem!! Desole pour ma pauvre Francais :):)
      Take the door, SVP.

      Delete
    4. Who cares about his book? Are you his agent? I looked at a synopsis of his book and I am not interested in his defeatist attitude.

      Quebeckers have said in 2 referendums that they want to stay in Canada, so that's good enough for me.

      And with more and more allophones immigrating to Quebec, I think there will be less and less support for the soverignty movement.

      So, I'm not worried about Quebec remaining in Canada.

      The one thing I agree with Scowen is that we should not give in to the demands put forth by the premiers of Quebec. The only exception for me would be in the matter of protecting and promoting the French language but NOT SUPRESSING the English language.

      And as for JF Lisee, he is a tool who has just been fired from Radio Canada's political panel. As well, 2 other separatists were fired. Finally, Harper has done something for Quebec!!

      Delete
    5. Defeatist attitude or just reality....

      Other points you make are valid...The seppie movement is becoming diluted...

      On the demands, they will never cease due to the fact they will pull the card that the ROC is not treating the French minority well (with a threat of separation as in the last 50 years) and are in fact bigots. Nothing could be further from the truth when one looks at equalization, the OLA and a myraid of other programs in place that pander to Quebec.

      Harper doubled the equalization payments to Quebec in 2008 due to the invented fiscal imbalance toyted by good old Gilles Duceppe. He also gave Quebec 700 million in a one time payment to help Charest with his cause. The Quebecois subsequently kicked him in the teeth about cuts to cultural travel allowances ( a ruse by the way).

      Harper has a long memory and is known to be somewhat vindictive by nature. I doubt he will every forgive Quebec. (which I happen to think is a good thing). Why do you think he has nominated unilingual anglos to key positions, reinforced the British history (royal air force, pictures of the Queen in embassies..etc etc ) and also has made a commitment to NFLD to fund a bypass around Quebec hydro grid.

      More is coming, I am sure. I am thinking the 2.4 billion per year involved in the OLA will also come up for revue and funding will be reduced in areas where there is no real need for French services. Already happening in the maritimes if you follow news stories. In short, Quebec has had it far to good, courtesay of the ROC, for too long and it is time they felt the belt tightening.

      Delete
    6. In response to the Anon respondant immediately above my comments here, I hope Harper fully exacts revenge on Quebec for the past. Quebec voters, esp. in the heavily weighted French speakers' constituencies, have told Harper what they think of him in spades over the last three elections. Fine. Harper doesn't really need them since he at long last learned in the latest election who's buttering his bread---and who is throwing it on the floor.

      Another consideration to be made in the upcoming round of talks re equalization in 2014 is the fact Ontario cannot be the big net contributor to equalization that they have been. An independent economist hired by [Ontario Premier Dalton] McGuinty came up with a 362-point plan to cut the deficit that at best is just short of austere. Ontario has to take this report seriously or Ontario's debt-to-GDP ratio will go past 50% in just six more years without tightening up expenditures...or raising taxes, a dirty word for politicians these days.

      Ontario's heavily industrially-based economy, as opposed to Alberta's resource-based economy, is no longer in the driver's seat, the population is aging and even with mass immigration, skilled workers will still be in demand, and the costs of maintaining the health care system will be ever increasingly strained until the glut of old folks (me to eventually be included in the mix) dies off.

      So it's all going to rest with Alberta, and that bodes badly for freeloaders like Quebec. Firstly, how badly are Albertans going to want to carry the load for the have-not provinces, esp. the chronically ungrateful Quebec that bitches no matter how much they get? Secondly, if Albertans grumble, Harper is going to have to keep his ears close the the ground and listen VERY carefully to the reactions as Alberta is his home base and HIS bread and butter!

      Another important factor: Demographics, and I'm not talking about young vs old here, although that will be an important factor in the years to come. I'm talking about the fact the population between the Western Provinces vs Quebec and the Atlantic Provinces is now balanced, and in the future will likely tip the West's way; however, Ontario, right in the middle, still holds about 36% of Canada's population. Where battles take place between the West and Quebec and the Atlantics, Ontario will cast the deciding vote, and with Ontario now in serious economic trouble, this is going to create serious tensions between the regions. Ontario still weighs in the heaviest, so Ontario won't lack attention without some serious political consequences. TAKE THAT, QUEBEC!

      Delete
    7. "The seppie movement is becoming diluted"

      En quelques semaines : De 21 à 30% de souverainistes selon le dernier sondage.Pas mal pour un parti supposément en pleine déroute...selon certains.

      Delete
  9. That's outrageous! Bombardier should have it's waiver to operate in English revoked! All communication, emails, memos, technical manuals, aircraft designs must be in French and in French only. If they don't comply with the law 101, send them to Ontario!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @anon 7:32

      I remember once the OQLF tried to pull francization on General Motors plant in Boisbriand. The manager of the plant told the inspector point blank, do you want me to move the plant to Ontario? The inspector said have a nice day and left. Unfortunately GM closed the plant anyways.

      Delete
    2. I'm surprised that the OQLF made that many exemptions. It is very level-headed of them but they should not try to force businesses that function internationally to work in French. More exemptions are recommended so as to improve the economy of Montreal.

      Delete
    3. > All communication, emails, memos, technical manuals, aircraft designs must be in French and in French only.

      MUST? Sounds like a personal judgment call you're trying to push as gospel. I can just see you stomping your foot on the ground as you holler that sentence.

      Grow up. It's precisely this form of vindictive linguistic nationalism that has never been held to account for wreaking havoc on our city's economy for much of the 80's and early 90's.

      If there's anything we need, it's to admit the linguistic duality that is so quintessentially ours isn't an anomaly but rather an advantage.

      Delete
    4. > If there's anything we need, it's to admit the linguistic duality that is so quintessentially ours isn't an anomaly but rather an advantage.

      +1

      Delete
  10. Justin, membre honoraire du PQFriday, February 24, 2012 at 10:37:00 AM EST

    "Also, I find your insistence on Editor identifying himself very suspicious." -Dixit adski

    Ce bon vieux adski,toujours aussi suspicieux.J'aimerais bien savoir comment vous réagiriez si le blogue de Louis Préfontaine ou les auteurs de Vigile écrivaient sous le couvert de l'anonymat.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It wouldn't bother me if Louis Préfontaine was posting as BIG FAT UGLY RACIST or ANONYMOUS. It would mean the same thing to me.

      And if I was an author at Vigile, I would hide my name. Talk about embarrasing "writer's"

      LOL

      Delete
    2. I was reading a post by "Jean-Jacques Nantel, ing." a while back. While it's reassuring to know my doctor is a Dr. and the guy who designs my bridges is a .ing, I fail to see the point of using a professional designation in a context (i.e. polemical, politically-motivated writings) completely unrelated to one's professional practice.

      Doesn't that actually work toward discrediting one's professional objectivity? Just a side-note that sort of disturbed me...

      Delete
    3. I agree. It’s like a dietician putting his name next to a book about politics: totally ridiculous. One thing has nothing to do with the other.

      He is using his credentials because probably, based on his writing, there is nothing there. However, once you see .ing, you are supposed to think “Oh, wow, he’s an engineer, isn’t he smart?”

      Maybe he is one of the engineers of the Champlain brige, that is now falling apart…lol

      Hmm..ok, let me devil’s advocate, though. I know, for example, sometimes La Presse has 6 or 7 people writing about something in politics from people of different ages and they need some way to identify these unknown people. So they may put that the columnist is a student at UQAM or head of a union or something of that nature. If that is the case, then I understand why they do it. If they don’t, we have no idea who they are.

      Even, with these designations, however, I don’t think that, for example, ONE student at UQAM would speak for ALL students at UQAM. So, in that way, once again, I agree with you.

      Delete
    4. Ha!Ha!...Apparatchik et Roger Rabbit sont le même homme.Honte à vous...Scoundrel!

      Delete
    5. Honestly, Seppie, nobody has the amount of time that you do to post here with multiple personalities. You really don't add anything to the conversation. Why don't you defend your option?

      Oh yeah, you can't, lol.

      Delete
    6. J'allais justement dire à quel point je trouvais particulier qu'un autre commentateur ait des opinions qui se rapprochent autant aux miennes. Mais de là à me faire accuser des mêmes pratiques trompeuses du roi incontesté de la redondance et du dédoublement en matière de pseudonyme, j'accepte pas ça. Majesty go home... and take your alter egos with you.

      Mais bon, si tu veux bien croire que je me rabaisserais en ayant recours aux mêmes tactiques de dédoublement trompeuses qu'un autre commentateur fréquent sur ce blogue (alias 101 ou 401, alias OQLF (et j'en passe)), c'est tout à notre honneur. Le jour du scrutin (si jamais référendum il y aura), tu seras à la fois doublement surpris et peut-être doublement humilié du résultat. Moi non, car que ça finisse par un OUI ou par un NON, j'ai tout ce qu'il me faut pour fonctionner partout en Amérique du Nord et même ailleurs. Je fais ma vie ici parce que j'ai le choix et j'en ai le droit.

      ...mais franchement... "scoundrel" ?!?!?!... ça fait 19e siècle un peu. T'es certain de ne pas vouloir aller avec "scallywag", "ragamuffin", ou peut être "ne'er-do-well", tant qu'à faire?

      Delete
    7. Hey Apparatchik,

      "que ça finisse par un OUI ou par un NON"

      Really, so it can end? When does it end? We already had two referendums, is it finished or it only finishes when the seperatists decide it's done? Vote to stay part of Canada 100 times, it's never done. Vote out once and it ends? Is that how it works? I think if we vote out then we should have the option to vote back in just to keep it going in your fashion.

      Typical.

      Delete
    8. >I think if we vote out then we should have the option to vote back in just to keep it going in your fashion.

      Sorry, but I don't think I follow what part of that entire posting got your panties in a knot. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up to your not catching the not-so-subtle point I'm making to my separatist interlocutor.

      If you re-read my last post as well as just about every other post I've ever contributed to this site, you'd realize the extent to which I don't support this ludicrous nationalism-addled neverendum scenario. But then again, while I don't happen to like many varieties of nationalism, irrespective of time and place, I take particular issue with the brand of Quebec nationalism I see promoted by the para-governmental culture gods around me (and I'm fluently bilingual, so I can work in a united Canada or a newly-minted Quebec - THAT's the other half of the quote I think you didn't thoroughly appreciate).

      Three centuries of a near-theocratic regime (led by francophones, no less!) that micro-managed every aspect of its people's parochial lives under the guise of "protecting" our minds and souls, has given way to a half century of emotionally provocative and gut wrenching culture wars by a less "religious" (but no less dogmatic) ideology whose spasms verge on Sturm und Drang. Far from advocating the doctrine of ignore-all-results-until-we-get-a-YES, I think we ought to take a serious look at our collective selves and aim a little higher, both as a supposedly "distinct society" and as an integral member of Confederation. Because for all our paradoxical inferiority-superiority complexes (be they Quebecer specifically or Canadian in general), our polemical story so far is nothing short of the sort of blueprint that the puppetmasters of Bush's paranoid, insecure, post-PATRIOT Act America would be rushing to implement at warp speed... that is, once they stopped simultaneously salivating and wetting themselves.

      The comment I'm making above is simply a rebuke to the séparartiste sometimes known as Seppie whereby I state that his accusing me of creating additional screen names in an attempt to create the illusion of some wider consensus is false (and in his case, disingenuously although deliciously ironic), although it doesn't fundamentally bother me that he should imagine I would resort to such tactics. Because if ever there were another referendum (in which all his fictitious screen names ought to only count as one vote), he'll be doubly surprised mine and Roger's would translate to two (since we truly are two different human posters).

      Seen from my perspective, I have difficulty seeing why you would think I'd advocate some perpetual vote-back-in/vote-back-out thing. In light of what I've summarized and re-articulated for you, the way I see it, you'll need to either explain your point or apologize for your markedly off-base assumption.

      Delete
    9. "Honestly, Seppie, nobody has the amount of time that you do to post here with multiple personalities."

      Je suis présentement sous médication afin de régler cette fächeuse manie,un peu de patience je vous prie.

      Delete
    10. Get well soon, Seppie. If you take the right medication, you'll become federalist :)

      Delete
  11. Concerning the Cornwall Hospital piece....

    What I don't understand is why do you need to declare the Hospital Bilingual to begin with. Why can't the hospital offer interpreter services for francophone patients that request it.

    How many times a day to allophones in Montreal show up with their children to a Hospital to help interpret to their parents when attending either a Francophone Hospital for even a English Hospital. The solution to the problem is right in front of us. Being put to use every day.

    The Cornwall Hospital should simply offer a interpreter. At this point, the Hospitals in Montreal, Laval, should also take the same advice and do the same. At least concerning the two official languages of the country.

    There is no need in unsetting people be it either pushing bilingualism where it was not before, but at the same time not cutting off a patients need to communicate in a language they fell more comfortable in.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Good idea, instead of official bilingualism aim for a much lower cost and common scence practical bilingualism. The ridigity of officialdom bears with it a high cost that we all end up paying for.

      Delete
    2. Because if you don't declare a hospital billingual, you take the path of least resistance - and all your nurses are unilingual anglophones.

      It's more than just hiring billingual nurses, you also have to try and schedule them so that there are at least a few in every department all the time. That's why most of the billingual positions were part-time.

      It's not something that "just happens".

      By the way - Cornwall is almost 50% billingual. We're not talking about Calgary here. Billingual services are as normal there as they would be in Montreal.

      Delete
    3. And working in a hospital myself, I can tell you - children or interpreters are a last resort. They are certainly not ideal, and there are serious ethical issues with using them. How can you be sure the interpreter understands the medecine, unless said interpreter is a nurse/doctor? If they don't, how do you know the information was translated properly? How can your patient give informed consent?

      I know of at least one incident where there was almost a death because of improper translation. Luckily they were able to find a nurse who spoke that patient's particular creole.

      All that is moot, though - french services aren't intended for people who don't understand english. Rather, the idea is that we form a significant part of the population and that we get to not feel like foreigners in our own homes, hence the services (where the numbers warrant, which they do in cornwall).

      Delete
    4. So are you OK with unilingual nurses in Montreal's English hospitals? I agree with everything that you have said about the ethical issues inside hospitals BTW. I believe the editor linked to that story because it outlines how harsh (often racist) it sounds when someone fights against bilingualism. Ontario's subset of anti-biliguals can be contrasted to the accepted anti-english/bilingualism that is commonplace in Quebec.

      In other words, it shows how French Canadians are OK with bashing English inside Quebec but not OK when French is bashed in the ROC. It smacks of hypocrisy.

      Delete
    5. @ Anon. at 7:57 AM,

      "Rather, the idea is that we form a significant part of the population and that we get to not feel like foreigners in our own homes..."

      You mean, like Anglophones in Quebec?

      There's a medical clinic in the Cornwall area that only treats Francophones and refuses to see Anglophone patients. I suppose you think that is okay. Can you imagine what would happen if a clinic in Quebec refused to treat Francophones??!!

      Delete
    6. I am NOT in favour of unilingual french nurses in Mtl hospitals. I never said I am, please don't ascribe positions to me based on your local bigots. I am not a Quebecker.

      Delete
    7. Ref. to post by: Anonymous Feb 24, 2012 07:57 AM

      I'm the original poster of this particular thread. So I felt I should respond to your post.

      I don't know in which part of Quebec the hospital you work at is located in. I'll assume on the Island of Montreal. Just for the sake of the discussion. In the central island, there is a very high level of allophones. Their use of English and or French may be limited. And usually is. They rely on their children to help translate for them. And while other children of francophones and even anglophones believe they have rights to services in their language. The children of these other people believe they have a right to assist their parents. And consider this a duty. I should know, because I am one of those children who put practicality ahead of perceived rights over others. And I know plenty of people who have functioned in such positions to help their parents. This is why most allophones push to have their children educated to a point of being trilingual in Montreal and Laval.

      You pointed out a example in your post about a bad translation. Yes, you are correct. Things like that can happen. But, how many day to day translations go well. And over years and decades. It's easy for a bad situation to rise to the surface. Good situations have no need to rise to the surface and grab the spotlight. They just work. Now let's reverse the situation. How many bad situations arise because people don't get to communicate in the language they best understand when dealing with Medical Services? How does one answer questions when they don't understand the question? How is a nurse or doctor suppose to get feedback from a patient in need? How will you know if the patient understood that the prescription drugs assigned will be taken in the times and dosages prescribed?

      This part of your post though rubbed be the wrong way. Example

      "All that is moot, though - french services aren't intended for people who don't understand english. Rather, the idea is that we form a significant part of the population and that we get to not feel like foreigners in our own homes, hence the services (where the numbers warrant, which they do in cornwall)"

      And what about everybody else! Are we more foreigners than others? Is one group more privileged than others? Is ones flag of linguistic ethnicity suppose to be raised over all other groups so that this group feels at home. Who's home?

      I would suggest you look at things towards your fellow citizens of all ethnicities as a duty to help one another. Not to push somebody else down because of perceived rights above others. There is an entire segment on the island of Montreal and Laval that put practicality ahead of perceived rights.

      You may not agree with what I have written. That is fine. This is a place of discussion.

      Delete
    8. I believe English and French services should be available throughout Canada where numbers warrant. Most people in Canada speak either English or French.

      So, that means that the English speakers in Montreal, the French speakers in Ottawa, the French or English speakers in NB, depending on where you are, and a few other places WHERE NUMBERS WARRANT (maybe at 10% of the local population) should have services in their language (i.e. most importantly health and education).

      However in places like BC, where there are hardly any francophones, there is no historical reason that these services need to be offered, if you don't believe in the OLA. There are more Chinese people in BC.

      I think this is the sensible thing to do.

      Delete
    9. WHERE NUMBERS WARRANT is a practical and logical approach.

      Imposing where numbers don't warrant or withholding where they do is neither practical nor logical, yet that sick combination imposition and withholding is exactly what characterized Canada and Quebec for the past 5 decades.

      Delete
    10. Anon 8:32

      I agree on principle; you won't find me arguing for french services in Albertan hospitals. That said. I think the perception of ressources spent where the numbers don't warrant it is overblown. Often that card is pulled whenever a complaint about the state of services is made somewhere the numbers DO warrant them.

      Take this case : Cornwall is a 50% billingual, 24% francophone city. If the numbers don't warrant services here, where do they?

      Note that nobody forced the hospital to designate itself bilingual, they did it themselves. (a "matter of concern", according to a blogger. What is the world comming to when it's not the french shoving their language down our throats, but our own initiative?)

      The opressive measure are taken by the city, which even in light of their significant francophone population are bullying their own hospital for attempting to hire part of their workforce bilingual.

      Delete
    11. Roger Rabbit : Total agreement. Do you know this is generally the status quo? The only provincial service that provinces are forced to give out is education. No health care, no anything else. Well, other than what they themselves (like Ontario) vote in.

      Federal services in offices like airports and tourist spots are supposed to be provided bilingually, even in the West, on the principle that French Canadians take planes too, and as Canadian citizens, are entitled to being served in their official language in such locations. In practice, we don't expect much and are rarely surprised.

      The federal guideline over what constitutes enough to warrant services for education is, I believe, either 5% or more than 2000. That is a bit lower than the number you suggest.

      Delete
    12. @ OP - I'm sorry, I don't work in Quebec. I work/study in an Albertan hospital, where my knowledge of french is entirely useless. Much more often it is recent immigrants who require assistance; these recent immigrants speak asian languages like punjabi or mandarin.

      "And what about everybody else! Are we more foreigners than others? Is one group more privileged than others? Is ones flag of linguistic ethnicity suppose to be raised over all other groups so that this group feels at home. Who's home?"

      I'm not trying to offend you. I'm not trying to say that some citizens are more citizens than others.

      I thought that immigrants immigrated places with the knowledge that they would have to adapt to a new environment. It would probably be impossible to provide the same quality of care in every single language spoken by immigrants.

      Certainly if a certain group of immigrants ever became a large enough minority, there would be fewer less ardent supporters than me that they receive services in their language. I notice that in the west, many banks run ads in mandarin; I find it humorous, because it seems the westerners are happier providing mandarin services than the maritimers providing french services, even in 30% francophone Moncton N-B.

      The point I was trying to make though, is that francophones haven't left their home and expected their hosts to accomodate them; for many we live in areas our ancestors settled in hundreds of years ago. If we're home, and there's a large number of us (take New Brunswick for instance) paying our taxes, why are we expected to make do with services in english? Because there are lots of anglophones way out west? The anglos pay their taxes and receive their services, but we're expected to pay our taxes solely for the anglo's services?

      It's very grating to hear all the time, anglo services are taken for granted but franco services just are too damn expensive, or the worst insult in this case, *unfair to anglophones*. I'm not talking of Alberta here - I'm talking about New Brunswick, Quebec and parts of Ontario.

      I hope I wasn't insensitive. If I was, I'd appreciate you to educate me on the subject.

      Delete
    13. "Is ones flag of linguistic ethnicity suppose to be raised over all other groups so that this group feels at home?"

      That is exactly what Franco-Ontarians do. They have their own green and white flag with a fleur-de-lys and a trillium on it. Wherever they place their flag, it is always much larger and higher than all other flags in the surrounding area.

      Delete
    14. @ Anonymous Feb 25, 2012 02:54

      Oh, ok I wasn’t aware that 5% was the threshold. I was just suggesting 10% because I think that providing services would be viable at that point.There would be enough people paying taxes, at that point, to provide the services.

      I am all for providing services above and beyond what is required. I think that’s what we should aim for instead of listening to politicians who say that workers should only speak French.

      When I go to the Uniprix close by or the grocery store, there are often friendly francophone girls/women that speak English to me with their cute accent and I appreciate it. My French is not always perfect and maybe I have a bit of an accent, so they make the effort. I make an effort to speak French as well. That’s the way things should be.

      That’s good for business. Any person in business should know that if you treat your clients right, they will come back.

      I think healthcare and education should be the same. The workers are there to serve the public. Anglophones pay taxes in Montreal. Francophones pay taxes in Ottawa and Cornwall. We should expect good service from our institutions in our minority official languages.

      Delete
    15. Roger Rabbit -

      5% *or 2000*, whichever is lower. Which has it's own issues. There are currently about 38 000 francophones in vancouver; that's still a fair amount. But technically, 2000 would be enough to require french education services. 2000 people would be a drop in the bucket in Vancouver.

      Furthermore, there are more people of cantonese or mandarin origin than francophones in Vancouver, but they don't get their public schools. OTOH, it's probably much easier to get french-speaking teachers in Canada than mandarin-speaking teachers.

      It's a complicated issue, and I don't think it's up to me to decide whether french Vancouverites deserve french schools, but them's the guidelines in any case.

      Billingual health care services is even harder, since you'd need bilingual doctors and nurses. As you've seen, Cornwall is having a hard time getting it's anglophones to swallow hiring some bilingual nurses, what chance does Vancouver have?

      Delete
  12. "A disturbing phenomenon: There is widespread use of FRENCH, even among radio hosts, and this idiom is disjointing the ENGLISH language. Signs are also often in FRENCH. The Quebecker people risk cutting themselves off from the world by falling back on its Patois" could be easily said about the French zealots who don't want to learn English because it's so evil.

    Oh, and I wonder if the OLFQ will do something regarding this not-so-french sign in Laval: http://mniqc.org/2012/02/vu-a-laval/ Probably not because once again, the sign isn't written in evil English.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ... and on St Laurent there's a bridal store called Bella Di Sera. Anyone complaining? I doubt it, because it's not is English! Sheesh!

      Delete
    2. I'm sure I can find you a few Italians who will tongue-in-cheekly complain that Molière's language is a patois compared to that of Dante ;-)...

      Delete
    3. I have written about this quite a number of times.

      It seems like the 'crusade' to protect French language is just a little more than a vengeance against English language. Like one of The Gazette editorials, OQLF should change its name to be Office quebecois contre la langue anglais.

      Delete
    4. You can easily find Bella Di Sera on Google Streetview (look for 6559 St-Laurent Montréal).

      The sign says "Bella Di Sera, Robes de Mariées"

      There will be no complain since the law is respected : if you have a non-french business name, you put a french descriptive next.

      Delete
    5. Je crois que certains angryf ont beaucoup de difficultés à intégrer ce concept.

      Delete
    6. Couldn't help but view this while thinking of Editor's Macbeth quote...

      Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
      That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
      And then is heard no more: it is a tale
      Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
      Signifying nothing.

      Delete
    7. @ Michel Patrice

      Please make a complaint about McDonald's to the language police. I don't see any french descriptors.

      How are you supposed to know that it's a burger place?

      Delete
    8. How are you supposed to know that it's a burger place?

      En regardant les plaques ontariennes des voitures dans le stationnement.

      Delete
    9. So Bella Di Sera is allowed to function only because of the descriptive Robes de Mariées? What about places like Future Shop, Best Buy, Roots, Guess, Urban Outfitters, American Eagle, etc? There is no descriptive there.

      I can imagine the following conversation:

      OQLF: Mr. President of Future Shop, please comply with our law
      President of Future Shop: Fuck off.
      OQLF: We must insist.
      President: I said fuck off, and if you bother me again, I'm relocating
      OQLF: Please stay. We won't bother you for a while, until the fanatics make a fuss again. For now, please accept our apologies.

      Delete
    10. @ Roger Rabbit

      If my memory is right, it says "hamburgers" under McDonald's, and hamburger is in the french dictionnary.

      Delete
    11. @Best Bouille

      "OQLF: Please stay" ??? Hmmmm...

      Vous avez un peu trop d'imagination.Vous devriez mettre tout ce talent à la recherche d'un emploi.

      Delete
    12. M. Patrice,

      While it is true that 'hamburger' is in French dictionary, is the correct spelling not 'hambourgeois'? I would think that it is the same case as 'stop' and 'arret'. While 'stop' is a French word, just look in Imperatif francais or MQF sites how many protest of the usage of the stop sign with 'STOP', even though that is what is used in France.

      Delete
    13. Hambourgeois was a proposed translation of hamburger but it has never been widely and commonly used, we use the word hamburger. Hambourgeois is sometimes used, most often in a tongue and cheek mode.

      I checked and I was surprised to see "stop" in the dictionnary. Funny.

      We could argue forever, but you understand that "arrêt stop" is a bilingual sign, if that "stop" was the french word "stop" it would be useless to write both "arrêt" and "stop", it would be writing to words meaning the exact same thing, so it must be the english "stop". Quite absurdly, if you wanted to use the french word "stop" and have a unilingual french sign, you would write "stop" only without the redundancy of "arrêt". But I think it would be as absurd as it could get.

      And of course, Impératif Français and co have a problem with bilingual signs.

      Delete
    14. I think it's pretty absurd to be the only place in the world to have this Arret nonsense, and not even have named it as such, but RENAMED it from what it was previously - a world standard used in France itself.

      Delete
    15. Est-ce que les américains copient tout ce que fait les british?Alors pourquoi nous,Québécois,devrions à tout prix imiter les frenchies?

      Delete
    16. Because, among the Francophones of the world, they are better than your lot at just about everything?

      Delete
  13. @Gen 9:12

    The expectation was that the arab immigrants from Magreb would help shore up french speaking population of Montreal Island, they never expected them in their own backyard in places like Fabreville.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "We reap what we sow."

      Que dire de plus?

      Delete
  14. Je trouve le nom "Bella Di Sera" pas mal plus attrayant que Dunkin Donuts,pas vous?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Le 101 doit être appliqué en ce cas, non?

      Delete
    2. Je trouve que Tim Horton's est mieux que Dunkin Donuts et le nom "Bella Di Sera" est belle.

      Delete
  15. "Heck, it makes me want to seperate"

    Good, move to Quebec and see if you can form an alliance with Seppie and his gang.

    "Do you honestly believe that our billingual services are solely for the sake of our unilingual francophones?"

    Why else when the majority of the country has no problem communicating in the majority language of English...

    Now don't go on about two founding nations etc etc etc.

    OLA is a complete failure and total waste of money....Just like the kids going to French Immersion get bussed to school and the anglo kids have to get rides from their parents or walk....

    As I said, disgusting.

    ReplyDelete
  16. "By the way, educate yourself : only 5% of jobs in the west are designated billingual. "

    Exactly what I said...maybe you should take a course in reading comprehension....

    5% in SK as well as AB and the unilingual french population is a whopping 0.1% So 5% bilingual positions for a unilingual population of 0.1%.
    http://www.ocol-clo.gc.ca/html/sa_06_e.php

    Check it out.

    I guess you don't mind wasting tax dollars. For me, its another story as I already pay way too much.



    Canada Wide

    40% bilingual is the target for the federal civil service...

    Actual need: 13% unilingual French (mostly in Quebec and some in NB.

    Appears to be a high commitment when one looks at the actual need.

    http://www.ocol-clo.gc.ca/html/canada_06_e.php

    Again, total waste of time and hard earned taxpayers money.

    Do you actually pay taxes? Or are you just naive when faced with the hard facts and figures.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Wow!
    http://www.usdebtclock.org/index.html

    ReplyDelete
  18. Re - Ontario...forced bilingual BS...

    The simple facts are as more francophone’s get hired for all government positions less and less English speakers are working for their own governments across the country. Don’t believe me; Go check the stats for yourself. Francophone’s are over-represented in all levels of government including hospitals, law, policing...etc. No fairness, no representation by population. They call it bilingualism, yet the term is never defined on purpose and believe me it doesn’t mean fluency in 2 languages in Canada, at least to the French it doesn’t. No political party will speak for the English speaking majority in this province and country. Practical bilingualism, where numbers warrant… is never defined on purpose. In Ontario, NB it now means segregation. The French (they are actually metis, a mixed race, not french) are demanding French only facilities all over the province, not bilingual, French only. $ Bilingualism is really nothing more then a hiring quota for francophone’s and that is a fact…just ask yourself, why are francophone’s over-represented in all government jobs and how come more and more positions are being designated bilingual all the time? And just as important, how come they are NOT fluently bilingual? Some can barely speak English!

    See whats really going on here?

    So while Quebec bans the English language (bill 22, bill 178, bill 101…), wipes out its real BNA, UEL history, while ethnic language cleansing is going on in Quebec, the rest of the country is forced to fund whatever the French (metis) demand. This is going on in every province. Go check.

    “First Quebec, then we take over the rest of the country, one step at a time…through bilingualism…” PT, “How to take over a country through bilingualism…” SD. How ? First comes the right to communicate with gov't in a minority language (ie French),then comes bilingualism, then comes the right to work in the language of choice(ie French), then comes a bilingual boss,(ie French) then comes a exclusively French department and on it goes until its all French. Its happening all over the country, Ontario, New Brunswick…That’s what’s really going on.

    Go learn our proud, real BNA and UEL history. These were the builders of our country since 1763. Not this phony, revisionist lie, this bilingual, multicultural, 2 founding nations, linguistic duality lie, propaganda, spin that we’ve been living with since Trudeau, and kebec forced this upon the nation. We’ve been part of the British Empire since 1763 and officially an English speaking country for over 200 years…just a fact.

    NO English speaking politician is telling you the truth, is exposing what is really going on.Not one politician, party has the decency, the honesty to expose the truth, to speak the truth,how pathetic. Poor Canada, what a mess. Please spread the word.The truth about Trudeau would be nice for a change. The man was a racist, an anti-English language, anti BNA bigot. Go read his writings; he despised our real BNA, UEL history.

    Until the charter and all the bs (bilingual, multicultural, phony rights…crap) connected to it gets repealed, we will continue to self destruct as we have for the last 5 decades.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I was under the impression that Canada was formed only by the willing union of 3 out of its 4 founding members (Nova Scotia was quite unwilling, but were unable to convince London to let them seperate). Did Quebec not vote in for the creation of Canada? But it was created by the anglos alone? Huh?

      Delete
  19. I want to add on the HEC MBA case.

    Before HEC, Laval University also opened an MBA program 100% in English. Apparently it is such a useless program since its graduates will only be:

    1. Unemployed.
    2. Getting a career outside of Quebec.
    3. Vector of the anglization disease.

    http://www.imperatif-francais.org/bienvenu/articles/2012/universite-laval.html

    ReplyDelete
  20. On a side note: no more posts by Not The One... funny that!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Je crois qu'il a dit ce qu'il avait à dire...Rien à ajouter.

      Delete
    2. Even funnier that it's Seppie that replies... How's life there in Alabama, Seppie?

      Delete
  21. yes this is the great job for the interpreter and this course really great helpful in the interpreter job for more information link here how do i become an interpreter

    ReplyDelete