Friday, December 9, 2011

French versus English Volume 41

More English schools to close
At the same time that French-language militants ratchet up the hysterics, proclaiming that the sky is falling in on the French language, the English Montreal School Board started hearings on Monday at its head office to determine which schools it will close or merge in the coming years. Because of the effects of Bill101 and Bill 103 enrolment is down 20% in the last ten years.
"Starting Monday night, the English Montreal School Board (EMSB) will hear from school communities as it decides whether to close, relocate, or merge them.
Seven schools are facing closure or merger and a handful more could be relocated.
The EMSB has said it must close several schools because of declining enrolment, which has dropped by 20 per cent in the last decade. "
 Read the rest of the story
Here's the sad list of prospective closure and relocations.

Monday, Dec. 5
Nesbitt School (closure)
Perspectives II High School (relocation)
St. Brendan School (closure)
St. Pius X Adult Education Centre (relocation)
Vincent Massey Collegiate (relocation)

Tuesday, Dec. 6
Carlyle School (closure)
Marymount Adult Education Centre (relocation)
Royal Vale School (relocation)
St. Raphaël School (relocation)

Wednesday, Dec. 7
James Lyng High School (closure)
Programme Mile-End High School (relocation)
St. Gabriel/St. John Bosco School (closure)
Vezina High School (relocation)

Thursday, Dec. 8
Advisory Committee on Special Education Services
Central Parents' Committee
Fraser Academy (closure)
Westmount Park district boundary

All this week, the scene at the EMSB headquarters was incredibly sad, with parent and teachers making presentations as to why their school shouldn't close, competing with other parents from other schools trying to do the same..

New assault on Christmas
The province of Quebec continues its assault on religion across the board and despite the Conservative government in Ottawa ordering SERVICE CANADA  to rescind an order to ban Christmas decorations, the writing seems to be on the wall. A senior member of Montreal's ruling party, proclaimed that decorations would be limited to 'generic' types of displays and so while the Christmas tree is out, the identical 'Holiday' tree is permissible Ugh!
The Montreal suburb of Town of Mont-Royal decided to pull it's Christmas and Hanukkah decorations in front of city hall after it received a complaint by a Muslim. The town should have called his bluff and offered to display a likeness of Mohamed (which actually is strictly verboten under Islamic law.) In fact, the Islamic faith has a ban on all physical representations of faith and so actually nothing can be displayed! Ha!
"The tree in front of City Hall will remain decorated. "We make a distinction between religious symbols and Christmas decorations, says Philippe Roy(the mayor). Christmas is religious for some, but for others it's cultural. There are non-Christians who have a Christmas tree. "  Really, is he kidding?    Link{FR}

Decor ban reversed for Service Canada in Quebec

TMR latest to refrain from religious decorations


Too much English at Urgences Santé
The union is complaining that  too much English is being used in the transmission of information between paramedics and dispatchers. A new protocol insists that if a patient calls the ambulance service and complains of 'chest pains,' that the paramedic be informed by the dispatcher that the condition is 'Chest pains' and not "douleur thoracique," a French translation. The rationale is to avoid translation errors.
Anybody see a problem here?
The l'Office québécois de la langue française, is looking to put and end to this practice.
Interestingly the article denotes that over one third of calls received by the ambulance service in Montreal and Laval are made IN ENGLISH. Link{Fr}
The head of the union of ambulance attendants  told a CTV reporter that almost HALF the calls made in this region are in ENGLISH

Strangely, this may be the most definitive proof that  the percentage of English speakers in Montreal and Laval is really much, much higher than we are led to believe! 
It backs up what I've always maintained, that if you count the territory west of Saint Lawrence Boulevard in Montreal, English is the majority language and this includes the downtown core! 

Short stuff
A mob of language militants demonstrated in front of a government office complaining that too many services were being offered in English to companies, contrary to Bill 101.
As most government agencies are withdrawing English services and removing their bilingual websites, one agency stubbornly refuses.... the Tax department.
Readers, can anyone venture a reason why?

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In a story interestingly similar to that of KIF KIF IMPORT, a new Sherbrooke junior hockey team has been named the "PHOENIX " which immediately brought down the wrath French language supremacists who demanded the team be called the "PHENIX"
While the word "Phoenix" does appear in the French dictionary, according to the militants, it doesn't refer to the mythical bird and so they accused the team of choosing an English name.

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Franz Schuller, artistic director of the record company and a member of Indica Grimskunk, rock legend independent Quebec, is launching a division, whose mandate is to promote young French rock bands with a young audience. In conducting an informal survey of the musical tastes of high school students he became aware of the gap between them and the French-speaking artists.
When asked to list their favourite 10 francophone artists, they often mentioned only one name, the popular singer Marie-Mai. Sometimes the name 'Les Trois Accords'  made the list, but most of the time, eight or nine of the ten boxes remained empty. Ouch!

Readers....do I hear government subsidy?

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At a forum discussing the financing of this year's annual Fête nationale celebrations in Quebec city, the president of the organization that is in charge of putting on the show, Chantale Trottier of the Mouvement national des Québécois, reminded everyone that Anglophone artists would be welcome.....as long as they sang in French and addressed the audience in French. Link{Fr}

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Here's some insightful reporting from the Montreal Gazette's Pat Hickey;
Headline  December 2- Montreal Canadiens' Markov's comeback imminent
Headline  December 3Markov's return delayed

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I don't know if Jean-Marc Fournier, the Quebec justice minister, is reacting to his not so successful visit to Ottawa to plead for changes in the Conservatives new crime bill, but his chief of staff, Helene Menard, confirmed yesterday that he will cease to give bilingual press conferences and answer questions only in French from here on in. Link
 **************
"Two prominent Montreal politicians are defending their French language skills after a popular radio host said their level of French is insulting.
On his radio show and on Twitter, Benoît Dutrizac took aim at Côte-des-Neiges—Notre-Dame-de-Grâce mayor Michael Applebaum and city councillor Marvin Rotrund.    Link    
 **************
New Brunswick drunk aquitted because cop didn't speak French
"The New Brunswick Court of Appeal has ruled that police officers must follow the province's Official Languages Act when they arrest people.   The three-judge panel unanimously upheld a decision by a Court of Queen's Bench judge confirming the acquittal of Serge Alain Losier on two drunk driving charges because the arresting officer did not speak French.

Losier was arrested Sept. 4, 2008, by a Fredericton police officer after being stopped at a checkpoint. The arresting officer did not speak French, and Losier's English skills were poor." Read the rest of the story
vigile.net supports Syrian repression
It's always useful to hear opinions differing from what mainstream society generally accepts, it's an essential elementary that makes democracy work. 
Good to see that vigile.net is upholding this principle and is promoting the murdering Syrian regime of Bashar al-Assad 
Here are a bunch of stories appearing om vigile.net in the past month, all are written in French.
Readers, I haven't cherry-picked just stories supporting the Assad regime, you can see a Google search of all stories concerning Syria on vigile.net Here..
...or view vigile.net's own collection of mostly pro-Syrian regime stories Here including these pearls;

Syrie : le génocide de l’OTAN approche (NATO genocide approaching)
Mensonges et vérités sur la Syrie   (Lies and truth about Syria )
Les disciples de Goebbels à l’œuvre contre la Syrie   (Disciples of Goebbels at work against Syria)
Menacer l’Iran et préparer l’invasion de la Syrie   (Threaten Iran and prepare to invade Syria)
La Syrie, Terre d’asile et de culture (Syria, land of asylum and culture)


Well Done!!
How about some support for Kim Jong-il? 
Quote of the Week
"....But when I saw and heard the commercial for Les Habits  St-Eustache on the V televison network, it was the straw that broke the camel's back. (because of English background music-ed.) This shop is located opposite the church, where our patriots were brutally killed by the English, now part of global conspiracy by Canadians and others whose mission is to make us disappear. I will never buy clothes in this store. -Daniel Roy C.A.
Weekend Viewing & Reading
For those who speak French here are three special treats.
Read a fantastic piece that is causing a stir; Doléances pour un Québec dépassé
Read a fantastic rant inspired by the first; J’aimerais être fier de ma nation

Here's an interview of Mario Beaulieu getting pulverized on a French language television show, Face a Face, by hosts Caroline Proulx and Stéphane Gendron. It's a jewel!
I found the link to the interview on the separtist website Mouvement Québec français, but can't for the life of me understand why they would link to such a humiliation.

Click to watch video
Here's a wonderful documentary in three parts on Anglos who left Montreal, which I found cruising the website of    Michel Patrice. 
Check it out, it's worth the visit.

"This first part is seen through the eyes of 6 friends who left Montreal in the 70's, after the separatist Parti Quebecois first came to power in the province, and the threat of separation for them became very real. They talk about the October crisis, feeling alienated and as they saw it, the limited opportunities for English speakers in Montreal." Phil Carpenter


"This second part is seen through the eyes of 3 professionals including well-know radio personality Terry DiMonte, who left Montreal in the 90's, and later after the second provincial referendum on Quebec's place in Canada. They talk about feeling alienated and as they saw it, the limited opportunities for English speakers in Montreal."  Phil Carpenter

"This final part tells how people who left, feel about Montreal and Quebec since the last provincial referendum on Quebec's place in Canada. They talk about how the politics has changed, and how the desire for separation among young people in 2008 might not be as strong as it was in previous years."- Phil Carpenter


Some Goood News!
Listen to the perfect voice of the very talented Marc Martel a bilingual Anglo, who hit the jackpot, scoring a gig as the "Freddy Mercury" lead in the Queen tribute band tour next year!
"Montreal-born vocalist Marc Martel, Quebec City bass player François Olivier Doyon and Toronto guitarist Tristan Avakian are among the winners announced Thursday in the Queen Extravaganza contest.
They auditioned via video before flying to Los Angeles earlier this week for a live audition in front of Queen drummer/songwriter Roger Taylor. The winners will tour next year in a Queen tribute band, recreating the Queen arena experience with songs such as Bohemian Rhapsody and We are the Champions."
Watch and enjoy!

 

BRAVO!!!!      Want more: Marc Martel does Bohemian Rhapsody


Monday's post;
Quebec Anglophobia, a Cautionary Tale for Head Offices...

86 comments:

  1. Interesting article editor, I especially enjoyed the Mario Beaulieu interview. I noticed that he seems to be especially proud when he mentions that the english population in Quebec decreased because of the exodus of anglos caused by referendums and language laws.

    I was surprised, however, that you didn't bring up the issue of a Made-In-Quebec corporation, Bombardier, having special permission to operate in english here in Quebec since the 80s:

    http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/national/201112/08/01-4475753-statut-special-pour-langlais-chez-bombardier-aeronautique.php

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  2. It's really sad that Quebec is beginning to resemble pre-WW2 Germany. The similarities are just unbelievable. Poor economy, state sanctioned hatred against a scapegoated minority, and a sense of alienation/insecurity about a people's culture. I know some people will argue that I'm exaggerating and perhaps I am, but I can't help point out the similarities.

    I have to wonder if all the raging anglophobia in Quebec lately is linked to Harper's indifference to Quebec and his seemingly tough love approach.

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  3. Wow, that Marc Martel was eerily amazing. Farrokh Bulsara (aka Freddie Mercury)  would be proud.

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  4. "I have to wonder if all the raging anglophobia in Quebec lately is linked to Harper's indifference to Quebec and his seemingly tough love approach."

    I think the recent uprising in the language nazis is mainly because their whole movement is slowly dying. They've already lost the Bloc, and the PQ is next.
    Finding things to complain about gives useless organizations a way to justify their budgets (OQLF), while spreading the fear-based propaganda to the ignorant sheep.

    As for Harper, I don't really see a "tough-love approach" as you say. Indifference, yes. Tough love, no. Maybe we're just too used to being spoiled in this province.. and now we're not getting everything we want, as our influence keeps decreasing.
    Money is power, and if the language nazis stopped driving corporations out of the province, we might have more influence in federal decisions.

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  5. Congrats to the musicians picked for the final audition in L.A. I hope they all succeed.

    More schools closing? Quel surprise! This WAS the primary objective of that Great Charter of Charters back in ’77. If anyone is surprised, WHY?

    That anyone supports that A-Sadist Syrian animal is just plain sick! As far as I’m concerned, anyone who does genuinely support this should be set to an abattoir to face what the victims who dare oppose that nut job face: A butchering! Then the pieces should be sent to A-Sadist’s door to eat, hoping with him choking on it!

    More about Mario Beaulieu and his minions? Aren’t there better topics than this everlasting drivel? The Yiddish word for what these minions believe in is called narishkite, i.e., complete foolishness.

    SOSDDBS!

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  6. "Indifference, yes. Tough love, no. Maybe we're just too used to being spoiled in this province.. and now we're not getting everything we want, as our influence keeps decreasing."

    Tip of the Iceberg. Harper's power base is outside of Quebec now. Quebec kicked him in the teeth. What can you expect from Harper. In fact, he will use wedge political issues to further alienate Quebec. He will listen to the ROC regarding cutting back payments to Quebec which is not popular in the West. In short, Quebec is f'ked.

    The thumbing of the nose to those ooposed to uniligual appointments, restoring the Queen's portraits in embassies and reinstating the "royal" with respect to the military are just the start. Why would he not as the rest of the country are solidly behind these moves. If not, he would not have done them. Simple as that.

    I think Quebec is in for more harsh treatment as a backlash to the "favored" status they have had for the past several decades.

    If one needs to reinforce the troops you need an enemy and one doesnt have to muse to long as who the enemy is to the ROC...or at least perceived as such.

    For me, I like seeing Quebec put in its place as do most people in the ROC.

    Gun registry, hell, he won't even give Quebec the database. In the era of the Liberals, they would have let Quebec dictate to the ROC how things would be done. Those days, at least for the next few years are over.

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  7. I don't for the life of me understand why the EMSB and other schools don't dare challenge Bill 101 in someway possible. They have tons of money and the means to do it. Are they waiting until they're down to a couple of schools left?

    Having said that, after having looked through the reasons the EMSB wishes to close some of those schools, it appears that some of the proposed closures are not because of low enrollment but simply to save money. They want to close Nesbitt simply because most students are from outside Rosemont and same thing for Carlyle. While some of those schools should be closed or relocated, it seems to me that the EMSB is more interested in money/politics than the well being of its students.

    I have another question. Most English school boards are experiencing declining enrollment, but why is it that they can manage the situation without having to close schools every few years? I mean, the Lester B Pearson School Board just opened a new elementary school in St.Lazare and enrollment seems to be increasing in their schools. In fact, evidence shows that enrollments in Laval English schools are increasing. So--why is the EMSB being particularly affected by all this?

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  8. Stéphane Gendron - BRAVO!!!!!

    It's to bad more French Canadians don't denounce jokers like Mario Beaulieu & Madame Louise Marchand.

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  9. The Daniel Roy Habits St-Eustache bit is priceless. Helped start my day with a nice chuckle ;)

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  10. @Jason

    On dit Québécois Jason,Québécois.Plus personne au Québec n'utilise cette expression.

    En fait,depuis 1964.

    Êtes-vous un canadian ou un english-canadian?

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  11. @ "Ti Jean-Guy du BS" - I don't understand? What expression don't you use since 1964?

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  12. Anonymous12:53 said :
    "It's really sad that Quebec is beginning to resemble pre-WW2 Germany. The similarities are just unbelievable. Poor economy, state sanctioned hatred against a scapegoated minority, and a sense of alienation/insecurity about a people's culture. I know some people will argue that I'm exaggerating and perhaps I am, but I can't help point out the similarities."

    You are indeed exaggerating but I see the same similarities. Let me explain myself.

    There is an interpretation of our history (Yvan Lamonde, McGill university) that sees our history has a rocking between a cultural nationalism and a political nationalism. This interpretation explains why linguistic issues are now rising while the political position of the soveignty movement is in bad shape.

    Some instances : the patriot's demands (1837-1838) were political nationalism (responsible government and so on). After their we entered a one century period of cultural natinalism (we defended our language, our religion, we wanted our rights respected, and so on).

    In the 60s and 70s, we came back to political nationalism (nationalisation of electricity, la Caisse de Dépôts, linguistic legislation, etc), that was the era of the Quiet Revolution.

    After the 1980 referendum defeat, we came back to cultural nationalism and the linguistic issues thus became more acute in the 80s and the 90s.

    So, according to this interpretation, when the sovereingty movement is in good political position, the cultural and linguistic issues are less of an issue, and when the sovereingty movement is in bad shape (as it is now), cultural and linguistic issues come back more acutely.

    So there is no wonder that linguistic issues suddenly make front page news.

    What is seen as a slow death of the sovereignty movement might seem as a good news for federalists. I think it hardly is.

    We can let franco-albertans slowly get assimilated, they cannot do much, they are a minority, they can more or less easily be ignored. There is a problem with quebeckers : they control their own government. They will be more difficult to ignore.

    You see a rise of intolerance in these linguitic issues. I see the symptoms of a slow death that will be painful for everyone. This is something I truely fear.

    Nazi Germany was born out of the humilitation and the frustrations of the German people, it was then a dying people and their slow death have been really painful for everyone. Of course, I don't think that we will see gaz chambers in Québec, but the mechanics of intolerance increasing with frustration is perhaps the same.

    When Québec will truely be dying, federalists will have nothing to cheer about, a little more than one fifth of Canada will then be dying.

    Michel Patrice

    (I had almost exactely the same comment a long while ago http://michelpatrice.wordpress.com/2011/04/02/ms-porridge44/#comment-39.)

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  13. Interesting article.


    http://www.cyberpresse.ca/chroniqueurs/vincent-marissal/201112/08/01-4475751-envoye-donc-apprends-le-francais.php?utm_categorieinterne=trafficdrivers&utm_contenuinterne=cyberpresse_B13b_vincent-marissal_3280_section_POS1

    I guess with Bombardier and other large companies in Quebec english would be the rule.
    This, in spite, of all the efforts to enforce French. Obviously, the draconian language laws are simply not working.

    What I found even more amazing was the translations of many "mauvaise Quebecois francais" into conventional French, found on the immigration departments web site. Almost like the government is sanctioning a lesser standard of the French language. I had heard that some Quebec films had to be subtitled for release in France.

    Seems to be a lot of double standard in Quebec with respect to law 101. Where it's is being enforced on those that are not able to defend themselves (school childrend for instance or small mom and pop enterprises) For the big guys they seem to pay no attention to the laws as clearly indicated in this article with regards to Bombardier (made in Quebec company) and other large enterprises (Banque National in Quebec.

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  14. "You see a rise of intolerance in these linguitic issues. I see the symptoms of a slow death that will be painful for everyone"

    Qui se retrouve sur la ligne de feu?

    La moins enviable position dans les conflits à venir sera forcément occupée par la minorité anglo de Montréal.Je crois que dans un contexte qui pourrait éventuellement s'apparenter à ce que le Québec a connu lors de la révolution tranquille,c'est-à-dire que toutes agitations ou revendications de la part des anglophones pourraient être perçues par la majorité comme une agression.

    Hé oui!le bon vieux principe du balancier.

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  15. "You see a rise of intolerance in these linguitic issues. I see the symptoms of a slow death that will be painful for everyone. This is something I truely fear."

    Indeed, it would be difficult for the country, losing nearly 20% of its GDP. However the people affected the most wouldn't be the citizens of Alberta, or British Columbia, but rather everyone here in Quebec.

    Corporations left the province because of the threat of separation, imagine what would happen if it actually happened? Corporations (both english and french) and money would disappear quicker than Bloc Québécois deputies after the last election. This would be a huge blow for everyone in Quebec.

    "La moins enviable position dans les conflits à venir sera forcément occupée par la minorité anglo de Montréal."

    Perhaps it would be frustrating, as they would be pushed towards moving out of their own province. But you forget that the people in this province who can speak english have a much better chance of finding a good job elsewhere in the world. Where are you going to go work if you can only speak French? I don't think Haiti is hiring much!

    I think its the immigrants, who were forced to learn french only (and forbidden from learning english), who would have the hardest time adapting.
    They would be stuck in a province where, despite their main language being french, they would still not be accepted. Lets face it, even though Falardeau claimed to like brown, yellow, and green people, as long as they are separatists, we all know this is far from being true - in fact, the racism would probably get worse, since their successful separation would be seen as validation of their racism. How long before immigrants and anyone different is sent to "assimilation camps" and forced to do manual labor?

    I know people will say I'm going too far, but we're talking about a group of people who had no problems using terrorist acts, or even killing people, to get what they want.

    This being said, it's not going to happen. Younger people in this province are more and more aware of the world around them, and less and less receptive to the old racist "les maudits anglais" propaganda.
    The idiots who are still stuck in the 60s and 70s will soon be left to crap in their diapers in rest homes while the younger generations make the province move forward.

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  16. I disagree with Lamonde's analysis which temporally separates political from cultural nationalism and insists that they stagger. I think they're linked and inseparable. Cultural and political nationalism have always worked in tandem and political nationalism has arised and been driven by the cultural one. Since the 1960's, both were present and fueled each other. And both are still going strong. We might see less of separatist nationalism, both non-separatist political nationalism is strong with both the PLQ and CAQ.

    I have to say I don't care about separation, and if it happens I will gladly revel in Quebec's deterioration as a result of it. But I always smile when I hear people like Mr.Patrice, these "don't discount the separatist movement" types. They are so transparent that it's not even funny. As opposed to people like Press 9 (who might really believe in separatist ideals), people like Mr.Patrice are cynical to the core. It is so obvious with these people are ruing the loss of significance of Quebec, and they know that only a threat of separation will bring Quebec to the fore. And the sad thing is that many of such people aren't even separatists. And they don't seem to get that as far as the RoC's fear of Quebec's separation, it's over. The RoC does not care anymore. And it is not the decline in support for sovereignty that is making the RoC feel secure and indifferent about Quebec, but it's the RoC's new-found indifference and numbness to the threats that is driving down the support for separation within Quebec. So the cause-and-effect is all wrong with all these dinosaurs who still remember how easily the RoC could have been blackmailed in the past.

    A good example of this is the Quebec actor Paul Piché who was recently interviewed by Richard Martineau and exposed himself. At one moment, he lamented the loss of interest in separation amongst the Quebec youth, and then he remarked something along the lines of: they don't realize that the political position of Quebec has been achieved thanks to that movement.

    So here you go. Quebec's political position. That's all there is to it.

    And a question to Mr.Patrice, in reference to the Wiemar Republic, you are right when you say that the Republic fell and was replaced by a Nazi state because of humiliation that the Germans suffered as a result of the Treaty of Versailles. But do you consider Quebecois people as humiliated as well? I am really curious about your answer.

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  17. "The idiots who are still stuck in the 60s and 70s will soon be left to crap in their diapers in rest homes while the younger generations make the province move forward."

    Je ne crois pas que la jeune génération de Québécois soit plus intéressée que leurs parents à être assimiler au canada anglais.

    Avec les médias sociaux,ils sont à même de constater ce qui se passe avec les minorités francophones dans les autres provinces.Tout comme leurs prédécesseurs,ils ne veulent certainement pas d'un deuxième Nouveau-Brunswick.

    Les croyez-vous vraiment aussi idiots?

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  18. "Je ne crois pas que la jeune génération de Québécois soit plus intéressée que leurs parents à être assimiler au canada anglais."

    Nobody is trying to assimilate us. We're far from the Durham Report... Or do you have any examples of said assimilation attempts?
    You proved my point, you never left the quiet revolution. Welcome to the 21st century.

    "Les croyez-vous vraiment aussi idiots?"

    There are some, who just like their xenophobic and intolerant parents, never left their small village and have no clue about the world around them. They are just as dumb as the previous generation, yes.

    But there are also a lot of young people who can see that globalization is everywhere, and that despite keeping our own cultures and languages, we need a common language to be able to communicate with everyone in the world.

    They can see that nobody is out to get us. The only people trying to screw Les Québécois are other Québécois.

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  19. "Where are you going to go work if you can only speak French?"

    Québec,France,Belgique,Suisse,Afrique du Nord,etc...

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  20. "Nobody is trying to assimilate us."

    Sans indiscrétion...êtes-vous francophone?

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  21. Poor Kebec, what a mess.

    We know how bad it is in Kebec, and it is just getting worse as the language Nazis wipe out all of its real English speaking history, but what a lot of people don’t know is how bad its getting outside kebec.

    These anti-English language Nazis are all over the country, NB, Ontario…a real expensive mess as they demand everything be done in French all across Canada. WHY?

    The simple facts are as more francophone’s get hired for all government positions less and less English speakers are working for their own governments across the country. Don’t believe me; Go check the stats for yourself. Francophone’s are over-represented in all levels of government including hospitals, law, policing...etc. No fairness, no representation by population. They call it bilingualism, yet the term is never defined on purpose and believe me it doesn’t mean fluency in 2 languages in Canada, at least to the French it doesn’t. No political party will speak for the English speaking majority in this province and country. Practical bilingualism, where numbers warrant… is never defined on purpose. In Ontario, NB it now means segregation. The French (they are actually metis, a mixed race, not french) are demanding French only facilities all over the province, not bilingual, French only. $ Bilingualism is really nothing more then a hiring quota for francophone’s and that is a fact…just ask yourself, why are francophone’s over-represented in all government jobs and how come more and more positions are being designated bilingual all the time? And just as important, how come they are NOT fluently bilingual? Some can barely speak English!

    See whats really going on here?

    So while Quebec bans the English language (bill 22, bill 178, bill 101…), wipes out its real BNA, UEL history, while ethnic language cleansing is going on in Quebec, the rest of the country is forced to fund whatever the French (metis) demand. This is going on in every province. Go check.

    What are they really up to? - “First Quebec, then we take over the rest of the country, one step at a time…through bilingualism…” PT, “How to take over a country through bilingualism…” SD. How? First comes the right to communicate with gov't in a minority language (ie French),then comes bilingualism, then comes the right to work in the language of choice(ie French), then comes a bilingual boss,(ie French) then comes a exclusively French department and on it goes until its all French. Its happening all over the country, Ontario, New Brunswick… Go check the stats for yourself.

    “New Brunswick drunk aquitted because cop didn't speak French”…This is just scik!!!

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  22. Québec,France,Belgique,Suisse,Afrique du Nord,etc...

    Pas a Bombardier ou le Banque National en Quebec. :)

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  23. "Québec,France,Belgique,Suisse,Afrique du Nord,etc..."

    Quebec corporations would move away. Both english AND french corporations. French businessmen aren't separatists.
    Your french wouldn't be understood or accepted in any european country, and as far as I know, even france isn't a big fan of Les Québécois. They're also much more open to other languages, I think you wouldn't enjoy all the dirty english you'd see there.
    As for North Africa, lol.. thanks for the laugh!

    "Sans indiscrétion...êtes-vous francophone?"

    Oui, et j'habite un milieu entièrement francophone. I guess the name I use for my posts isn't clear enough.
    But since I can speak english, and since I use english on here (so that everyone can understand what I write), you probably consider that I'm not. I'm also not a separatist, so once again you probably think I'm not a real Québécois.

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  24. "Pas a Bombardier ou le Banque National en Quebec. :)"

    Haha!Vous avez raison.J'ai envoyé mon C.V (en français) chez chez Kif-kif import il y a plus d'un mois...Aucun accusé de réception depuis.

    Dois-je garder espoir?

    ReplyDelete
  25. "Oui, et j'habite un milieu entièrement francophone"

    Un francophone avec une identité anglophone vivant au sein d'une d'une majorité francophone qui elle-même se retrouve dans un ensemble majoritairement anglophone discutant avec un autre francophone en anglais... ?1?

    Désolé de vous demander celà mais,Souffrez-vous de Schizophrénie?

    ReplyDelete
  26. France - laughs at the Quebecois

    Belgium - only half French, the prosperous half is Flemish

    Switzerland - 1/3 French, 2/3 non-French

    North Africa - not so great a trading or economic partner

    ReplyDelete
  27. North Africa - religious and contemptuous of Quebec's state policy of absolute secularism.

    Haiti - not mentioned by the Anonymous. Why?

    ReplyDelete
  28. Quebecker of Tree Stump said...
    "Québec,France,Belgique,Suisse,Afrique du Nord,etc..."

    Quebec corporations would move away. Both english AND french corporations. French businessmen aren't separatists.
    Your french wouldn't be understood or accepted in any european country, and as far as I know, even france isn't a big fan of Les Québécois. They're also much more open to other languages, I think you wouldn't enjoy all the dirty english you'd see there.
    As for North Africa, lol.. thanks for the laugh!
    -----

    Dude, I don't live in Canada anymore. I grew up in Quebec and now work in the Old Continent. I work with many people from Belgium, Switzerland and France and they have no issue understanding me. So I disagree there.

    All your other points are spot-on though. Smash these seppies.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Vietnam - abandoned French for English in the 1960's.

    Central Africa - gradually abandoning French for English, also politically unstable and economically impoverished therefore no partner in economy

    http://theworldwidedeclineoffrench.blogspot.com/

    Seriously, what would Quebec do? It would be stuck trading with the maudit anglais from the US and Canada...that's if they would want to trade in the first place.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Anonymous said...
    France - laughs at the Quebecois

    Belgium - only half French, the prosperous half is Flemish

    Switzerland - 1/3 French, 2/3 non-French

    North Africa - not so great a trading or economic partner

    ----

    France - Only Paris laughs at Kweebeckers.

    Belgium - Yes, the Flemish part is wealthier but, everyone laughs at Belgians anyway. Could there be a better match for a Kweebecker?

    Switzerland - German/French swiss are both fairly wealthy but, these people work hard and Kweebeckers don't.

    North Africa - LOL, I'd love to see how a Kweebecker would live there LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

    ReplyDelete
  31. "France - laughs at the Quebecois"

    American - laughs at the canadian :D

    Je n'ai jamais compris pourquoi ;(

    ReplyDelete
  32. To adski,

    "And a question to Mr.Patrice, in reference to the Wiemar Republic, [...]. But do you consider Quebecois people as humiliated as well?"

    I use the example of Nazi Germany to illustrate a situation where frustration fuels intolerance.

    The scale of both frustration and intolerance is of course nothing in comparision with Nazi Germany, but the dynamic is the same.

    I understand what you mean by political and cultural nationalism are linked and inseparable. They are. I would say that cultural nationalism is "une position de replis" (not so good translation : fallback position). I would say that is a rocking between cultural and political nationalism like there is a rocking between attack and defense in a battle. Well, there are many interpretations to history, this one is one among many, it is a complex reality.

    Michel Patrice

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  33. "Désolé de vous demander celà mais,Souffrez-vous de Schizophrénie?"

    Non, je souffre d'un syndrome qu'on appelle "l'ouverture au reste du monde".
    Also, I don't suffer from your obvious sense of insecurity. I know I can use other languages without losing my culture or my identity. I will always be a "Québécois", no matter what. I will always speak french, and my kids will learn french (and other languages).

    "Un francophone avec une identité anglophone vivant au sein d'une d'une majorité francophone qui elle-même se retrouve dans un ensemble majoritairement anglophone discutant avec un autre francophone en anglais... ?1?"

    I live in french.. I work in french.. There aren't many english people here, so even if I wanted to live in english, I'd be the idiot.
    This blog, however, is english. Furthermore, by writing in english, I'm sure that people who visit this site from all over the world are able to read and understand what I write.
    Isn't it ironic that you want people to use the language of the majority in your province, but you come here and you can't even do the same? Not that I care which language you use on here, but don't come criticize me for the languages I use.

    By the way, I'm still waiting for those examples of how we're being assimilated...

    ReplyDelete
  34. Why american peoples always laughs and makes jokes on CANADA ?

    ReplyDelete
  35. "Non, je souffre d'un syndrome qu'on appelle "l'ouverture au reste du monde""

    Et ne me dites pas que vous vivez à Trois-rivières parce que,honnêtement,vous feriez ma journée!MDR!!!

    Dites oui svp pour que je finisse bien ma semaine avec mes collègues de bureau cet après-midi.

    ReplyDelete
  36. @ Mike L.Teasdale said...
    Why american peoples always laughs and makes jokes on CANADA ?

    Because they never heard of Quebec, otherwise they'd be the laughing stock.
    M

    ReplyDelete
  37. "Seriously, what would Quebec do? It would be stuck trading with the maudit anglais from the US and Canada...that's if they would want to trade in the first place."

    Well, you brought up a really interesting point... trade. The infantile seppie (I am sorry, I do not usually go around and insult people, however his replies come off as really... 'traded. Or he tries to be funny and fails miserably) keeps deploring the fact that Qc is francophone and is in a sea of 350.000.000 or whatever anglophones. Well, what I don't understand is how he fails to see that a small independent country in NA would have any social, political or, more important, ECONOMIC leverage against US. It would be so fast ripped off by its own resources, that they wouldn't know what hit them. And good or bad, Qc is better off as part of Ca. And in case of separation, I am more than convinced that the Maritimes won't become a second Alaska...

    ReplyDelete
  38. sorry, I meant " 'tarded". Damn auto-correct.

    ReplyDelete
  39. "Isn't it ironic that you want people to use the language of the majority in your province, but you come here and you can't even do the same? Not that I care which language you use on here, but don't come criticize me for the languages I use."

    Are you the same Tree Stump that badgered Michel Patrice for posting in english and called him a hypocrite?

    That's pretty funny.

    ReplyDelete
  40. "Seriously, what would Quebec do? It would be stuck trading with the maudit anglais from the US and Canada..."

    Ce n'est pas le cas actuellement?

    ReplyDelete
  41. @Cagary anonymous

    "Are you the same Tree Stump that badgered Michel Patrice for posting in english and called him a hypocrite?"

    That's pretty funny.

    Nous le trouvons peut-être très drôle de l'extérieur mais je vous assure que ce type de névrose ,voir personnalité complexe (multiple identités) n'est pas une pathologie à prendre à la légère.Mettez-vous à la place de leurs proches une seule journée.

    Un cas célèbre qui fait toujours rire les Québécois et qui a été scruté par des spécialistes :Elvis Gratton

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  42. "Dites oui svp pour que je finisse bien ma semaine avec mes collègues de bureau cet après-midi."

    You're a group of BS at the internet cafe?

    "Are you the same Tree Stump that badgered Michel Patrice for posting in english and called him a hypocrite?"

    Yes, I am. You obviously STILL don't understand. I'm not the one who wants everyone who speaks a different language to get out of this province.
    I'm not the one who's intolerant towards english or other languages. In fact, I have no problems with the language people use.
    However I do believe that if you are one of the people who wants to limit people's language choices (like Michel Patrice), you should at least do what you say.

    The reply you quoted was to someone questioning if I'm actually a Québécois because I use english.

    ReplyDelete
  43. Maybe, but you point out to one person that he should speak english if he wants the majority to understand, and then you tell Patrice he should not use english by calling him a hypocrite.

    And then you say that you don't want to limit people's languages. It doesen't seem very coherent to me.

    My problem is that you seem to make lots of assumptions about which opinions entail other opinions. For instance you seem to think that someone like Patrice wants "everyone who speaks a different language to get out of this province", something that I haven't seen him say. I think it cheapens the value of the discourse.

    ReplyDelete
  44. "You're a group of BS at the internet cafe?"

    Une fixation sur les BS en plus?Ça va bien à part ça?Tabarnak!!!MDR!!!

    Combien pour une photo de toi dans ton costume d'Elvis?...Autographiée bien sûr.

    ReplyDelete
  45. "Maybe, but you point out to one person that he should speak english if he wants the majority to understand, and then you tell Patrice he should not use english by calling him a hypocrite."

    No, I didn't say that he should speak english if he wants the majority to understand. I simply said that's the reason why I use it here, and not French like he'd want me to (since I'm Québécois).

    I have no problem with people using the language they want, but I do have a problem with hypocrites. If you have such a problem with a language (whichever language it is), why would you use it? That's what I don't like.

    I have to admit, I was very hard on Michel Patrice, yes. I was unfair. But if you actually take some time to read his blog (which I did), his points of view become quite clear pretty quickly. There is definitely a contempt towards anglophones in his writing, and he seems to claim that the "anglophone" vision of history is wrong. I can get quotes if you need, but I don't think that's the point here.

    Just because someone doesn't say something, it doesn't mean they aren't thinking it. People (aside from a drunk Parizeau) still try to remain politically correct. So no, Michel Patrice didn't say that he wants any non-french people out of the province.. but from reading the content on his site, that's what I'm led to believe.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Just so people can make up their own mind :

    http://michelpatrice.wordpress.com

    The post that was the most commented is this one : http://michelpatrice.wordpress.com/wp-admin/index.php?page=stats (The comments following this one are, I would say, more interesting than the post itself, especially the discussion between Dirk and I. (Dirk is a dutch belgian living in Québec.) Most of these comments are in french.)

    Michel Patrice

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  47. Oops, wrong link : http://michelpatrice.wordpress.com/2011/03/20/what-would-we-do-without-equalization-payment/

    : )

    Michel Patrice

    ReplyDelete
  48. Thanks for clarifying.

    I understand where you're comming from - not everyone who is hateful is so at face value. Racists can no longer really self-advertise. But there are others who are moderate and just believe what they say without a more extremist position lurking in the back of their minds.

    When you impute opinions on others based on their statements, you're doing them a disservice. It's a bit like accusing a socialist of being lazy based solely on his call for better services ; for all you know he's a philantropic higher earner.

    ReplyDelete
  49. From Michel Patrice's blog:

    "Et j’oserais dire que je constate que, dans plusieurs cas, plusieurs canadiens anglais ont une vision simpliste des choses et ont envers le Québec des préjugés étonnants."

    It's funny that you don't mention this for the other side. The Québécois view of Canada and the rest of the world is right?

    ReplyDelete
  50. @Calgary Anonymous:

    You can go back and read my previous comments. On many occasions, I have asked the people on the other side of the debate very simple questions, or I ask them to give me arguments to support a certain point, instead of just one line replies (which you can see plenty of in this post).

    For some reason, I never get any decent answers. A week or so ago, I asked some people to give me some reasons why they want to separate from Canada, some advantages they think we'd gain.
    What was the reply?: "So the english can take french off their Corn Flakes box."
    Today I asked for examples of so called "assimilation" that we keep hearing about. I'm still waiting on a reply.

    So if they don't want to express their point of view, I'm going to assume, based on the very little that they've said.

    In Michel Patrice's case, he has a whole blog that I can base my opinions on. Yes, he's more rational that a lot of the people who post here (myself included probably), but his point of view is still clear.

    ReplyDelete
  51. I will give you two examples, which might give you a better idea why I think Michel Patrice's opinion is clear:

    "Usually, when english quebeckers tell french quebeckers about the exodus of anglophones, it is all about blaming french quebeckers, separatism, linguistic laws, our supposed intolerance, and so on, vous connaissez la chanson. This documentary gives a different sound, it tells of a human experience."

    (I have included the entire quote, so I'm not accused of just using what I want.)

    The first part of that quote is a personal opinion from the writer. What he's telling us is that usually, when anglophones tell you about how the separatist/language movement affected them, it's not valid because they are just whining, and it's always the "same song". The video he's about to present IS valid though, unlike all those other dirty anglos.

    What's worse is his last sentence "tells of a human experience". Are you claiming that other anglophones are not human??? Or that their experiences don't count as much as other humans? Or that they have no emotions? I don't understand..

    "I recently had the pleasure to accidentlly discover a short documentary that touches a very sensitive issue : the exodus of anglophones. And it deals with this issue with great sensibility. I expected a rant, it wasn’t."

    Again, the author states that he was expecting a rant. This is what he thinks of anglophones' opinions, it's just a useless rant! But for once, the author has found an article that isn't a rant.

    ReplyDelete
  52. "I work with many people from Belgium, Switzerland and France and they have no issue understanding me."

    Mr.Marco, maybe it's because you don't speak it like a Quebecois de souche.

    ReplyDelete
  53. "For some reason, I never get any decent answers."

    Peut-être que parce que ce n'est pas l'endroit indiqué.Regardez l'illustration de l'Éditeur de ce blogue en haut de page...Vous êtes sur une piste?

    Nous ne réglerons pas les conflits Québec/canada sur des blogues,pas plus que celui de la Belgique ou des Basques.

    ReplyDelete
  54. @Tree Stump

    Well, not being MP, I can't really speak for him. I'll make two comments however.

    1. When I read "Human Experience" - I believe what he means is "These are actual stories of people who went through it." Often enough when people comment on blogs/news pieces about how Quebec is forcing all of its anglophones out, I get the feeling that these people are talking about something "well known" and not something that happened to them personally. I didn't get that he was considering anglos less human.

    2. I've read lots of pieces, by people from both sides of the discourse. There are a lot of rants. I'm not gonna qualify that statement with the use of words such as "usually" or "especially", but there are a LOT of rants. It's nice to find a piece, from any side, that doesen't read like a rant.

    That's why I like MP's blog myself, it's not as ranty as, say, "AngryFrenchGuy"'s blog.

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  55. "1. When I read "Human Experience" - I believe what he means is "These are actual stories of people who went through it." Often enough when people comment on blogs/news pieces about how Quebec is forcing all of its anglophones out, I get the feeling that these people are talking about something "well known" and not something that happened to them personally. I didn't get that he was considering anglos less human."

    Seen from that point of view, ok.. But it still seems like if it's trivializing what the anglophones were put through, essentially saying "well it didn't happen to you, so your opinions aren't valid". I guess no jews alive today should be talking about the holocaust?

    I think he also meant that lots of people often bring up how businesses moved, which in itself isn't "human". Those businesses had employees, however, who lost their jobs or were forced to pack up and move. That seems pretty human to me.

    "I've read lots of pieces, by people from both sides of the discourse. There are a lot of rants. I'm not gonna qualify that statement with the use of words such as "usually" or "especially", but there are a LOT of rants. It's nice to find a piece, from any side, that doesen't read like a rant."

    Perhaps it's not a rant, but it's definitely not impartial, and it's definitely not presenting facts. It's a blog with someone's opinion, which is entirely fine, as long as that person isn't trying to represent it as an impartial fact site.

    "That's why I like MP's blog myself, it's not as ranty as, say, "AngryFrenchGuy"'s blog."

    That's for sure, and the AngryFrenchGuy is the reason why I got so upset at Michel Patrice.. Here's someone using the english language to promote an anti-english agenda... Again, I don't care about which language people use. What bothers me is hypocrites.

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  56. @Quebecker of Tree Stump

    I remember when AngryFrenchGuy was advocating for an English network devoted to a pro Bill 101 voice to the rest of the world. I always found that ironic.

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  57. "advocating for an English network devoted to a pro Bill 101 voice to the rest of the world."

    This would not only be ironic, but absurd.

    I find Parizeau's idea of a multi-language PQ website as absurd. One of these languages would have to be English, which would confuse and alienate a lot of people who make up the voting base of the PQ. Which is probably why neither the English version of the PQ website, nor an English network devoted to 101 have ever been realized.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Anomynous Dec. 9, 2011 wrote at 1:41 PM:

    "And good or bad, Quebec is better off as part of Canada. And in case of separation, I am more than convinced that the Maritimes won't become a second Alaska..."

    For nearly 70 years, Canada has allowed Americans to drive through their country on the Alaska Highway. In the worst case scenario that Quebec separates, we Americans should allow Canadians the same courtesy.

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  59. As far as I know, no one among independentists argues that we should forbid travel between Ontario and Maritimes through our territory, nor does anyone argues that we should close the Saint-Laurent seaway.

    We don't because it would be stupid, it would be stupid because it would be casus belli.

    Michel Patrice

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  60. I can see where an independent Quebec is taken over by extreme Franco nationalists would close the borders to keep English-speakers out who might "assimilate" the native Quebecois, and also keep French-speakers in so that they can't go to Canada or the U.S. to learn English and thus become corrupted. The native English-speakers or Francos who have already learned English? Expelled, of course.

    Insane? Crazy? Yup---but that doesn't mean it can't happen. I look at what happened 150 years ago in my country as proof that just because something is stupid and suicidal won't stop them from doing it, even if it is a casus belli.

    Quebec's current campaign against the English language may not be a casus belli for now, but it is stupid and suicidal.

    ReplyDelete
  61. "As far as I know, no one among independentists argues that we should forbid travel between Ontario and Maritimes through our territory, nor does anyone argues that we should close the Saint-Laurent seaway."

    Well, I doubt for one minute that this would be reality. If and when (which I doubt very much will happen) Quebec were to separate this would be negotiated and the feds would no doubt provide for a road right through a sovereign Quebec. The St Lawrence seaway, a good deal of this is close of borders on US soil. I think the US would be quite retiscent to have some new country control any part of this route which provides access to US destined vessels to the Great Lakes.

    Currently the language debate appears to be escalating in Quebec. Likely, as some have indicated, due to the decreased importance of the sovereignty movement. (BQ wiped out, PQ on the ropes, CAQ not wishing to discuss anything with regards to sovereignty-but of course are taking a hard line on language)

    In the ROC:

    The bilingual issues are becoming less relevant as is evidenced by the Conservatives appointment of Unilingual people to high ranks.

    The other provinces are becoming immune to Quebec's threat of separation...They see this as a dog with rubber teeth not to be taken seriously.

    The other provinces (especially the West) are becoming more aware of equalization issues and the fact they are actually subsidizing many social programs they don't enjoy themselves.

    Of particular importance is the fact that in the last federal election the Conservatives won a majority government without any substantial presence from Quebec. Quebec has, for this reason, lost a great deal of political capital they once had under the Liberal government and the parade of Quebec Prime Ministers we in the ROC had to witness. Doubtful the liberals are going to be back any time soon and I doubt the NDP will be a viable force thereby leaving Quebec looking in rather that sitting at the table.

    The language issue is really all they have left to play and that hole card is becoming insignificant in the ROC. No political party with substantial support in Quebec would dare to even entertain the thought of appointing a unilingual judge or other high ranking official.

    All this does not bode well for Quebec with regards to the Canadian poltical landscape. In short, the ROC no longer cares about Quebec's self interest.

    In reality Quebec is damned if the don't and damned if they do. Between a ROC and a HARD PLACE is not a good position.

    ReplyDelete
  62. One simple problem:

    Since none of the Anon seppies are able to provide some sort of scenario of how Quebec, as a new and free country, with a hostile Canada and a greedy USA as neighbours, would keep it's position as a sovereign country and most important how the economy will work, I will invite Michel Patrice to answer this.

    Since he thinks he knows everything about separation, we should listen to him on how Quebec will function properly after several years of chaos following the actual separation?
    How Quebec would retain it's investors and attract new ones?

    How would Quebec survive after maybe 1/3 of the population will leave to Canada ...or maybe not leaving but this would create such a degree of anarchy that would keep Quebec in the stone age?

    How nobody will ( except France maybe ) recognise Quebec as a country. Is Quebec prepared to be the new Palestine ???

    The comfort will be gone also.

    The money will be gone. Are you, Michel, wiling to see your accounts filled with Quebec money with no value? ( I doubt Canada will allow the use of it's own dollar )

    The Canadian status will be gone. Are you ready?
    Actually, since 90% is not travelling outside the province I think this will not be a big impact . LOL

    Well, these are the kind of problems seppies and Michel should consider?

    In my opinion this wish of them it's like a childs play...

    Well, Mr. Michel Patrice, since we consider you better than "Anon-one-stupid-sentence-answer, please ENLIGHTEN US !

    ReplyDelete
  63. Also, please excuse the typos above :)

    ReplyDelete
  64. Just saw Daniel Paillé get voted the new Bloc Leader. The tension between him and Maria Mourani is palpable. Surprised a gray-haired white guy got the job? No. then again, I had a sneaking suspicion that our ethnocentric secessionist movement's establishment wouldn't likely put their faith in an immigrant woman, even if she made the right noises. Then again, although he "received" 61% support following a second-round vote, Paillé got in on something like 20% of all possible votes cast. "Pas fort; pas fort p'en toute".

    His acceptance speech to me seemed the predictable populist spiel about how "Reform Party Canada" is turning less and less into the kind of country that many people - including Quebec federalists - want to live in, and that this somehow justifies the two solitudes further disengaging and crafting the separate nations that they've been cultivating for a while now.

    My only problem with his argument, will-of-the-people and all that aside, is that it fails to take into account the basic premise that we've been voting for protest parties for the last 20 years whose very purpose was to isolate us from the mainstream decision-makers. In addition, the sort of loonies we read on vigile.net have long gotten far more exposure than I suspect they've ever had actual supporters, and we've long made the mistake in this province of assuming that this vocal minority spoke accurately for our collective positions and interests. This was a dangerous premise to have accepted years ago, and one I am glad is becoming more apparent now as we question the pertinence of the Bloc and of the whole separatist movement.

    Then again, ego and ratings are what drive news cycles, and the sort of lunacy and phobia that surrounds any of the harcore seppies' causes célèbres - real or imagined - makes for good TV. Forget that your firm's IT department has been operating mostly in English since it was established back in the '80s; the real danger is that if we don't collectively deflect the seppie movement's irrelevance by cherry picking almost Kafkaesque real-life examples, it'll be 1950 again before you know it and your poor clueless French-Canadian mother won't be able to be served in French at Eaton's... er... Best Buy... er... Électronique Bon Prix.

    I suspect that if Quebec had massively voted for the Liberals in 2006 and 2008 in a strategic attempt to stem a rising Conservative tide that we'd likely be AT the table and not looking in from out in the cold. And forget justifying the Bloc's presence as a sentinel "watchdog" in the Commons; had Quebec voted Liberal (similar views on gun control, crime, environment, etc.), we could have literally half-owned the Doberman. For better or for worse, it wouldn't have even occurred to the party that brought us federal bilingualism to appoint anyone unilingual to any top position of note.

    "Ah but the Grits were corrupt," you'll surely reply. "They don't represent who and what we are".

    Sure. The Bloc hasn't long been in bed with the trade unions. Those literally hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars for lumps of blue joy to pretend to defend our interests – that was necessary! They didn’t work to undermine the very system that fed them; they sucked at the teat while swearing up and down that it was curdled milk the whole time. We can believe THEM, of course.

    Yet time and irony can be fickle mistresses indeed. I have to chuckle... and sigh... at how all the talking heads are bemoaning Harper's environmental policies not three years after laughing Stéphane Dion's proposed "Green Shift" off the political landscape.

    More broadly, I don't see how our current isolation isn't the result of buying into the separatists' politics of fear, and simply reaping what we sow.

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  65. Pourquoi certains anglos ont-ils de si gros égo?Croient-ils vraiment qu'ils sont le centre de l'univers?

    Pourquoi certains anglos sont-ils autant effrayés par le pays du Québec?Eux qui sont tant mobiles et si supérieurs.

    Je croient qu'ils ignorent simplement le statut particulier que nous leur réservons au sein de notre éventuel nouveau pays.

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  66. " ... éventuel nouveau pays"

    Puff puff pass...man, the weed is good, eh?

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  67. "but this would create such a degree of anarchy"

    It would create a lot of civil disobedience, and spawn very determined groups pushing for partition (M.Patrice admits himself that it's down to who wants what, and how much determination one has, or how much weight one can throw at the UN, or be able to act unilaterally, which today can only be done by the lone superpower - the USA.)

    In underestimating the power of Anglo-American political and economic elites (whether good or bad is a subject for another discussion), and their dominance in the world but especially on the continent on which Quebec is located, the Quebec elite is definitely overplaying its hand (as do articulate people like M.Patrice, Calgary Anon, Josee Legault, or JF Lisee who represent and defend this particular elite, thus making themselves members of an illustrious group of state apologists that Lenin once described as "useful idiots").

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  68. "...which today can only be done by the lone "super" power - the USA."

    Puff puff pass...man, the weed is good, eh?

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  69. "...which today can only be done by the lone "super" power - the USA."

    Puff puff pass...man, the weed is good, eh?
    ------------------------------

    Actually he's right ...

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  70. Actually adski's not that far off the mark.

    A key part of being a sovereign country is the ability to be recognized as such. And recognition by chump change banana republics doesn't carry as much weight as does the endorsement of the hoi polloi crowd consisting of power players like the U.S., Britain, France, Germany, Russia, China, and India.

    Need proof? Consider, just for the fun of it, the political statuses of Taiwan and Northern Cyprus, and then we'll talk.

    In the meantime, let's enjoy life in this quasi-country we call Québec, itself located in what Lucien Bouchard famously said was not a real country... and yet worked feverishly to separate us from.

    Oh the tangled web we weave when we try to ignore reality.

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  71. typo; replace "the hoi polloi crowd" with "the NOT-SO-hoi-polloi crowd"

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  72. "Pourquoi certains anglos sont-ils autant effrayés par le pays du Québec"

    Je doubt ca, Parce Que, il n'y pas une pays du Quebec. Seule une province dans du Canada.
    Pour quoi tu pensez que le province du Quebec est un pays? Etes vous sur le drogues? Je pensez bien, que vous sont, avec mal logique que vous avez. Nobody is afraid of Quebec other than the Quebecois themselves.

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  73. "As far as I know, no one among independentists argues that we should forbid travel between Ontario and Maritimes through our territory, nor does anyone argues that we should close the Saint-Laurent seaway."

    I find it interesting to imagine what would actually happen... It's easy to say things like "souverainté-association", but both sides have to agree to that association. I realize, however, that it would probably also be in Canada's interest to have that association.

    But still, it's nice to imagine.. Related to what you said, consider the following:

    The Champlain, Jacques Cartier, and Mercier bridges are managed and operated by a Federal organization, the Federal Bridge Corporation (Loi 101: La Société des ponts fédéraux Limitée)

    The St-Lawrence Seaway is managed and operated in part by a Canadian federal organization, The St. Lawrence Seaway Management Corporation, and a U.S. organization, The Saint Lawrence Seaway Development Corporation.

    So it seems to me that if we take it to the extreme, Quebec wouldn't have much say over these major axes of transportation...

    Also taken to the extreme, how would a sovereign Quebec expect to defend any territory? With the Quebec Militia? "MDR" as that guy would say...

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  74. ... now consider what a final settlement would actually look like. Financially, geographically, politically, linguistically, and militarily.

    I have difficulty believing our quasi nation-state isn't already enjoying about everything it could hope to have under sovereignty-association. The only downside is that one needs to tolerate the presence of a few hundred thousand anglos around Montreal, Canadian flags and some royal symbols every now and then.

    Sure, you can live exclusively and perhaps comfortably in English in some pockets of this province, but to anybody who's bilingual, this is actually more of an impairment than a relief. Leave the GMA and everything is pretty much "genuinely" in French anyway - again with small pockets, albeit rapidly shrinking ones.

    Heck, for 8 billion bucks a year, I'd keep my mouth shut even if I WERE a separatist.

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  75. Hello admin,

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  76. Hi admin,

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  77. wow ! your posting... is really great and helpful keep up the your great work....

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  78. the great posting......keep up the your great work... really your posting is great

    ReplyDelete
  79. To NM 3:57,

    You have quite a lot of questions.

    It might seem indeed like I think I know everything about separation. But I don't think I know everything, but I think that I have given it a little more thought to it than others and that I have read a little more about it.

    According to you, independence would be Québec's apocalypse. Germany was totally destroyed in 1945 and today it is a world class economic power. But Québec would never recover from taking care of its own business? J'entretiens un sain scepticisme.

    Michel Patrice

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  80. "But Québec would never recover from taking care of its own business?"

    The initial period would be rough, and that's by P.Marois's own admission. It's hard to predict what would happen in the long run. Some sort of rebound would probably occur, but it would take time. So the real question is: how many Quebeckers would be so altruistic as to sacrifice their immediate needs and wants for the sake of the future generation's statehood. And the answer for now is: some would, but not enough of them. For most, the standard of living takes precedence over the mysticism and allure of separatist propaganda.

    Which means that as a separatist, you're wasting your time on an Anglo blog. You should be out there on Franco blogs trying to whip up the numbers.

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  81. Anonymous9:31,

    "... you're wasting your time on an Anglo blog..."

    You are probably right, there is some waste of time in this.

    I began reading the Gazette on a regular basis many months ago and participating in the forum because I was curious to know about to point of view of anglos.

    The first question I posted was about what I perceived as a dilemma for anglos : Charest is a bad prime minister but he is the alternative to separatist. I wonder if anglos felt that they simply had no option.

    I then more or less got caught in a never ending discussion. I don't think nor do I try to get support for separation from anglos. But I am curious about this "other society" among us.

    And of course, I tell my side of the story which often brings confrontation.

    Michel Patrice

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  82. Note to the QC Govt, in denial of the bilingual regions of QC, where you might find perhaps 20-30% 'evil' unilinguals (from their point of view): http://www.ocol-clo.gc.ca/html/stu_etu_032011_p14_e.php
    If these people are fully qualified for their jobs, why the witch hunt? Cannot a translator be provided when a Unilingual finds their way to the top of a QC-based organisation to satisfy those offended? Does the Caisse not provide a budget for this necessary work? Or they are still stuck in the false idea that anglophones do not exist to them in QC?

    from the top twenty failures of the Bloc Québécois:
    11th Position – The English Speakers of Quebec, the Anglophones: the Minority the Bloc Refuses to Accept Exists
    You only have to look briefly at the Bloc’s site to understand the type of society this party proposes: a society where prejudice against Quebec’s English speaking population continues, and that it is acceptable they be treated as second class citizens. Anglophones, along with their fellow Quebeckers, don’t they have an interest to know the Bloc’s position regarding the Economy, the Environment, and Culture? How can the Bloc pretend to defend the interests of Quebec while affirming, that Anglos are a spoilt, over-funded minority, whereas at the same time, they refuse to address them in English through their tools of communication? What Federal political party writes off an entire part of the population that represents between 1 Million English speakers (+ 2 Million Bilingual persons) within their own province of 7.5M, by not even providing a link to English on their website? When Mr Duceppe speaks in English (and even admits his heritage is part Anglophone, the Rowlands), it is not to speak with his provincial Anglophone neighbours, but to sell the idea of separation to the rest of Canada and abroad, even from his Ottawa office! What possible credibility does the Bloc Québécois have, when it demands that our francophone brethren across Canada be respected, when this party’s own segregation-is-the-only-answer position is nothing other than pure hypocrisy? Their idea of a unilingual Quebec is not what our society represents, thus, a vote for the Bloc means swallowing the ‘Anglos do not matter to me’ pill.

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  83. For my Franophone friends, here is what I translated from:

    11 e position – Les Anglophones du Québec, cette minorité oubliée par le Bloc.
    Il suffit de jeter un coup d’œil sur le site web du Bloc Québécois pour comprendre le type de
    société que ce parti propose : une société où les Anglophones sont considérées comme des
    citoyens de seconde zone. Les Anglophones, comme les autres Québécois, n’ont-ils pas intérêt
    à connaître les positions du Bloc sur l’économie, l’environnement et la culture ? Comment le
    Bloc Québécois peut-il prétendre défendre les intérêts du Québec en affirmant du même
    souffle que les Anglophones sont une minorité gâtée et en refusant de s’adresser à eux dans
    leur langue dans ses outils de communication ? Quand Gilles Duceppe sort son anglais, ce n’est
    pas pour s’adresser à ses concitoyens anglophones du Québec, mais pour vendre l’idée de
    séparation au reste du pays et à l’étranger. Quelle crédibilité le Bloc peut-il avoir lorsqu’il
    demande que les droits des minorités francophones soient respectés dans le reste du Canada ?
    Non, l’unilinguisme du Bloc n’est pas à l’image de la société québécoise.
    www.blocquebecois.org
    De plus, ses droits des anglophones sont mentionné qu’une fois, et seulement en tant que
    droits ‘historique’ : donc, voilà l’avenir le Bloc tien en tête en ce qui concerne cette minorité :
    http://www.blocquebecois.org/document.aspx?doc=11fd4727-8e48-4405-8b0c-3937bb487e11

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  84. Hi admin,

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  85. HI admin,

    I am also want to learn French versus english language can you give me any suggestions

    ReplyDelete