Wednesday, November 9, 2011

Language Marchers Disconnected From Realty

SOURCE DE SOULIERS A BAS PRIX ????
One of the sad aspects of the French language ultra-militants is that the publicity they garner is disproportionate to the amount of support that they actually have in the general community.

Last Saturday's march through downtown Montreal by a coterie of zealots underlines the paranoid psychosis that afflicts those who believe that an English name on a store is somehow dangerous.

Demanding that stores post signs in French is one thing, demanding that they change their names to French goes beyond the pale, into the land of racism and fantasy.

The self-righteous demand that stores show 'respect' to the francophone majority, reminds me of that parent, the one with belt in hand, who demands 'respect' from his child under pain of a beating.

Respect is earned, not owed.

When militants tell stores to respect the letter and even the spirit of the law, what they are really demanding is blind acquiescence, something quite different.

I never understood the concept of minorities owing 'respect' to the majority by virtue of numbers, while by virtue of those same numbers the majority can run roughshod over the minority.

Do Arab-Israelis owe 'respect' to the Jewish majority just because they are a minority?
I'm sure that every single person who took part in the march would say no, me included, by the way.

I'd bet they'd also object to the Jewish state banning Arabic on public signage and would accuse the country of cultural apartheid if they did, even though Hebrew is every bit as 'threatened' as French.
(By the way, public signage in Israel is tri-lingual and stores can post in any language they choose.)

Ridiculous comparison? Not really. Sometimes when you look at an issue from a different perspective things look completely different.

And so it seems that big bad Israel is linguistically more tolerant than Quebec. Ha!

Now before readers write in to say that there is no comparison between Arab-Israelis and Anglophone Quebeckers, because as the language militants love to remind us, we anglos are the 'best treated minority in the world," I beg to differ.

Francophone Quebeckers are the best treated minority in the world. 

So in the case of language in Quebec, it's a 'case of 'might makes right,' it isn't a question of respect.


The protest about English store names is based on the fantasy that 'out of site is out of mind,' that if English signs and store names are removed from public view, then somehow they don't exist. Poof!

It is an effort to promote an alternate reality, one where Montreal's English don't exist and the false perception that Montreal is 'French' and not bilingual is maintained by hiding reality.

This is the real essence of the protest.
Not English signs, rather English people and English businesses that protesters wish didn't exist.

Even the l'Office québécois de la langue française (the language cops)  admit that the demands of these militants are beyond the scope of the law.

Going far beyond what the OQLF guidelines, namely that stores add a modifier to their names, as in"Les Cafes Second Cup" the rabble marching down Ste. Catherine street, with the determination of those storming the Bastille, demand that the coffee shop change its name to "Deuxieme Tasse"

Next they shall tell Quebeckers that those who possess names like Henry, Mary, William and Peter change their names to the more acceptable, Henri, Marie, Guillaume and Pierre.

Ridiculous? I'm not so sure.

34 comments:

  1. I dunno, Editor! I think this is the leftover, or hangover (whatever) of the racially motivated intolerance and overt rhetoric of days gone by. When the PQ was first elected around this time 35 years ago, in reality an overtly racist government was put into office.

    What was their very first piece of legislation? Bill 1, the original Charter of Charters that was nothing less than tantamount to the rabid fascism of Nazi Germany! It was so riddled with hate and fanaticism that if it actually passed, never mind the constitutional backlash that would have formed, but it would have possibly created civil war--well....naaaahhhh--Quebec would have hidden behind conscription like the yellow bellies too many of them are (except, of course, for the patriates in Quebec who indeed did go to war, and who have in recent times died for the cause in Afghanistan and other countries).

    During WWII, the Nazis had plenty of most willing collaborators who were only too happy to throw Jews, Gypsies, Slavs and other targeted enemies under the bus, and on both sides of the War (think Walt Disney, Henry Ford II and a host of others who were captains of industry).

    Think of these protestors as something equivalent to the Neo-Nazis of today. They are angry at the world probably because they didn't and can't succeed in life, so they need a scapegoat upon whom they can take out their frustrations.

    Most abusive parents who crack the whip do so because it's easy for a physically strong grown-up (please pardon the oxymoron) to use his/her child as a scapegoat, and most such parents were once children of their own abusive parents. The oxymoron here is they are in reality very weak-minded and weak-charactered.

    The late Mordechai Richler in his requiem Oh Canada! Oh Quebec! described Camille Laurin's White Paper on Culture in Quebec (a sick manifesto, really) as shock therapy for the mostly Anglophone minority, putting the targeted collectivity on the chaise longue.

    This group of protestors may not, in the greater scheme of things, be all that large, but they are completely defiant (and retarded), and will battle to the bitter end.

    Still, I can't help but wonder how many from the Quebec majority stand on the sidelines and quietly and covertly cheer their efforts.

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  2. As an additional observation, Mr. SaugaWednesday, November 9, 2011 at 3:04:00 AM EST

    ...after the above post, I just noticed the date. This is the 73rd anniversary of Krystallnacht. Hmmmm...

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  3. The problem is these people aren't significantly mocked enough by those of us in the mainstream who think renaming stores is silly.

    On a related note, I have yet to see them protest in front of dozens of places with "ethnic" names like Kim Phat and Amir. This lends credence to the fact that they're scared of the creeping presence of English but not creeping ethnic presence, even though their oft dramatized "falling below 50% on the island" argument is assumed to mean the big bad anglos (and not, as is really the case, the newcomers' languages) are absorbing the lion's share of that change...

    Slow assimilation will solve that though. If not to English, then definitely to Chinese.

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  4. Look here:

    http://quebecfrancais.org/node/3435

    I now wonder, what do they really want? There is a store named Fruzishling. How does one translate that? Next, Sports Crescent. It is correct in French. What is the problem? Is it because of the logos of NBA, NFL and NHL? While NHL can be LNH, NBA and NFL do not even have team in Quebec.

    Next, Aldo. Do they want to go there? Aldo is the name of the founder. Do they need him to change his name too? My favorite in that album is Roots. Guess they need to change to 'Racines'.

    Speaking of which, our friend Press 9 assured us up and down that changing trademarked names was not what 'they' wanted. I wonder what he will say now.

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  5. Some very interesting points, editor...

    Next they shall tell Quebeckers that those who possess names like Henry, Mary, William and Peter change their names to the more acceptable, Henri, Marie, Guillaume and Pierre.

    ... or that those who have non-francophone name shouldn't be part of our government. Damn that John-James, I wanted a Jean-Guy as premier!

    Still, I can't help but wonder how many from the Quebec majority stand on the sidelines and quietly and covertly cheer their efforts.

    Mr.Sauga, you sure have a bleak view of this province.. You witnessed the last federal elections, right? I'm sure there are a lot less language nazis and FLQ'istes than you imagine..
    Take a minute and look at any pictures of these events.. Pay close attention to the people who attend them. These are people who couldn't get a job even if they wanted to (which they don't, they'd rather wait until someone else pays for them). This vocal minority DOES NOT represent the typical Québécois. The problem is that, just as the author stated, the publicity they garner is disproportionate to the amount of support that they actually have in the general community.

    The good news is that, just like the "occupy " protesters, their message and their cause is being taken less seriously every day.

    - Quebecker of Tree Stump

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  6. Troy: "There is a store named Fruzishling. How does one translate that?"

    How would you translate "Guess"? As a noun (a guess = "conjecture", "supposition"), or as an infinitive verb (to guess = "deviner"), or as as commanding verb (as in "guess what" = "devine")

    Are we going to wake up one day with a "La Supposition" chain all over town?

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  7. Sauga,

    We're talking about the same party that wanted to rid of English institutions altogether and the only reason that hasn't happened is because Rene Levesque threatened to quit the party if the plan went through. Levesque had to essentially keep an eye on Camille "Goebbels" Laurin to make sure that the anglos had at least SOME rights according to the "Great Charter of Charters", despite of how arbitrary those "rights" are.

    What's scary is that literally nothing stops any Quebec party from further stomping on minority rights because we no longer have an organizational opposition that we once enjoyed. Our community has fought for some of the rights we currently enjoy such as receiving English services from certain institutions, the right of children from ALL of Canada to attend English schools (and other particular circumstances) in Quebec and the right to post signage in English (the font of English may be "as predominantly as French" in some cases).

    In any case, Sauga, I have to disagree that these fascist goons represent the leftover of the nationalist movement of the 70s. When you watch the French media, you'd think that this is how the mainstream francophone society views the situation and who knows... I think we all agree that it's about time the francophone majority starts acting like one instead of always acting like an oppressed minority all the time.

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  8. @ Tro...

    Dude I lobve the "French COnnection" sign...

    We're surrounded by a bunch of clowns...

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  9. Strange how despite all the Camille Laurin types wanted to guarantee their demographics, it back fired. Made the English speakers even more stronger. Forced them to stay in Montreal Island in their own neighbourhoods. Allos still adapt into anglophone society in disproportionate numbers. The north African arab muslim that are encouraged to immigrate to Quebec as they are French speakers are seen just as undesirable as the English speaking allos and Anglos. In some cases there is mass paranoia especially in the regions when they settle there in growing numbers.

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  10. @Troy:

    After looking at the pictures on the site you linked to, I'm now convinced that it's not a language issue at all.

    I mean come on, "Aldo" is an english word now? There are even places with french in their name in those pics.

    The issue clearly goes beyond language.. I really think a lot of these people don't want any businesses or money at all in this province.
    Nobody should be making any money in Quebec, or else they are exploiting the poor innocent french.
    And in the event where a Québécois owns a business, said Québécois becomes one of the evil people with money, which is just as bad as being english or ethnic (official source: Ex-Premier Jacques Parizeau)

    Separatist dream: Everyone in Quebec lives on their farm, like back in the 40s. Education beyond grade school is strictly limited for french québécois (and anyone whose parents didn't go to english school), that way the french Québécois farmers won't learn too much about the outside world, to prevent assimilation. "On va les avoir les maudits anglais!"

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  11. I think the dream is that the French culture will one day revert to its golden days when it was admired and emulated, French language was the international language of global affairs, and a French speaking nation was a global superpower. The trend was supposed to continue, but it got aborted abruptly.

    What kills Quebec nationalists inside is that noone admires them or defers to them, and that many of their own people cross to the other side. This arrogance has historical roots, as not so long ago the French were admired and deferred to, and their language reigned as the language of diplomacy. They did get used to this status, and old habits die hard. So here they are, being nostalgic and lashing out.
    They take indifference and apathy personally (something that other cultures don't do). And don't confuse it with the love of their language and pain that it's causing them. It's more about power and prestige. The Quebecois are concerned with these two more than with their survival. Their survival is not threatened and they know it.

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  12. Seriously, these people need to get a life and mind their own business. They act like they own Montreal and that the rest of us are just "out of town-ers" just here for a visit. Montreal is Bilingual, it always has been for as long as anyone alive can recall. I don't care what any politician says. They are all pimple's on a horse's ass as far as I'm concerned. A city that works in two languages is what makes this city a special place. If you don't like to see words written in English in public, close your eyes (ideally while crossing Ste Catherine st.)!

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  13. Quebec separtistes used language and culture as an idol in order to give the movement a point to rally people to their thinking. (the sky is falling in and the maudits anglaise are going to assimilate us and our families). Now, with the economic realities it comes down to "do I want to preserve the language or do I want a job". We hear of the woes of Greece and Italy amongst other EEC nations. In reality Quebec is not far behind them with a Debt to GDP ratio of nearly 94%. This is what is likely on the minds of most Quebecers at present. How do you say ...I am broke and have no job....en francais.

    " I think the dream is that the French culture will one day revert to its golden days when it was admired and emulated " That ship sailed long ago and clearly the evidence is clear that in Canada there are changes at play which will diminish the state of the French Language. Supreme court Justice appointment unilingual, now an Auditor General and before the director of communications. I suspect that the official two language policy will change in this country as belts are tightened and the majority of people realize how much money was wasted on the OLA.

    Of course, the NDP, in Quebec are screaming blue murder about the appointments. Great planning by Harper. Beautiful wedge issue painting the NDP in the same vein as former separatistes or at least sympathizing the the media in Quebec over this issue. Keep in mind, the majority of Canada is English...What side would you like to woo in coming elections?? Quebec, for the most part has become irrelevant in the scheme of things and the French language is enjoying the same fate.

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  14. "That ship sailed long ago"

    It sure has, but it doesn't mean that nostalgia has sailed with it. The nostalgia and delusions still persist.

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  15. "The nostalgia and delusions still persist"

    I think the latter is what is persisting.

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  16. I couldn't express this better than this self-proclaimed "Englishman of Swedish extraction who also happens to hold an American passport(American mother)" on a European board discussing the French-Flemish situation in Belgium.

    http://www.antimoon.com/forum/t8842-60.htm

    "I'm not anti-french. I love the french language(which I can speak) and the culture however I'm sometimes annoyed by french cultural arrogance and their superiority complex. No culture or language is superior to another and I hope the french, walloons,quebecois, and romandes can come to grip with this. "

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  17. And here's more from the same forum from a "Josh Lalonde"

    "For centuries, the french speaking ruling class of belgium have looked upon the language and culture of their compatriots in the north with an air of contempt. They tried to reduce the form of dutch spoken in flanders as a bunch of dialects not worthy of language status. So I sympathize with the flemish because of this, because I despise people who view their language or culture as superior."

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  18. I think we can draw a parallel between the Flemish in Belgium and the Anlgos/Allos in Quebec.

    The Flemish have made their move and tried to separate from Belgium. When are the Anglos/Allos of Montreal going to make their move?

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  19. "When are the Anglos/Allos of Montreal going to make their move?"

    Hahahahahahaha!Excellent!

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  20. Marine Le pen,bientôt présidente de la France (2012),promet de désangliciser son pays.

    Vive Marine Le Pen!

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  21. @ Anonymous at 6:46 PM and 6:51 PM:

    Hey Press 9! You're back!

    They must have just released you from the psych ward.

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  22. ...to November 9, 2011 2:31 PM:

    Where on Earth did you get this notion Lévesque EVER threatened to quit? He did nothing of the sort; far from it! He DID get rid of English institutions, except for English schools. The so-called English hospitals are NOT English! They merely OFFER services in English. Anybody who walks or is wheeled through the portals of those so-called English hospitals can DEMAND, BY LAW, service in French. Sinage in those hospitals MUST, BY LAW, be in French. If the government demands certain records or reports they can, BY LAW, ORDER them in French.

    All professional and even non-professional practitioners MUST, BY LAW, pass a government prepared French proficiency exam, even if they never in reality speak French to patients.

    You wrote: Levesque had to essentially keep an eye on Camille "Goebbels" Laurin to make sure that the anglos had at least SOME rights...

    Uh...no! What happened was Lévesque kept his perspective on how many MORE Supreme Court challenges would have taken place had Bill 1 passed in its original form. Lévesque was much, much more skilled at testing the limits where Laurin and his Gestapo would have made vitriolic spectacles of themselves in the eyes of the international community. As it was, the international community still took notice.

    Right your are that nothing stops any Quebec party from further stomping on minority rights because we no longer have an organizational opposition that we once enjoyed. The problem was when the going was getting tough, the tough didn't get going. Everybody talked a good fight, but the fight never really came, until it was too late. We needed Howard Galganov 20 years earlier.

    You wrote our community has fought for some of the rights we currently enjoy such as receiving English services from certain institutions, the right of children from ALL of Canada to attend English schools (and other particular circumstances) in Quebec and the right to post signage in English (the font of English may be "as predominant as French" in some cases). There should be no cases. Even though the Supreme Court stated English only signs are not a given, then that takes away freedom of expression.

    If you have to disagree that these fascist goons represent the leftover of the nationalist movement of the 70s, fine, that's YOUR opinion, and you're entitled to it.

    You wrote: When you watch the French media, you'd think that this is how the mainstream francophone society views the situation and who knows... I think we all agree that it's about time the francophone majority starts acting like one instead of always acting like an oppressed minority all the time.

    Tell you what: I'll agree to that when Quebec separates from Canada. THEN you and those rude dogs you support WILL be the majority, and you can have it! I deal with those rude bastards on the phone everyday of my life on the phone, less from the Montreal area, but boy, not all, but too many of the ones from Lac St-Jean-Saguenay, Quebec City, and the other outer reaches are RUDE DOGS! I talk with them...I KNOW! Case closed!

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  23. "He did nothing of the sort; far from it! He DID get rid of English institutions, except for English schools. The so-called English hospitals are NOT English! They merely OFFER services in English. Anybody who walks or is wheeled through the portals of those so-called English hospitals can DEMAND, BY LAW, service in French. Sinage in those hospitals MUST, BY LAW, be in French. If the government demands certain records or reports they can, BY LAW, ORDER them in French."

    These hospitals are "bilingual" and most people who work there are very fluent in English and some of them don't even speak a word of it. I know because I've had first time experience. People can demand service in French by law. I know what you're thinking: WE CAN'T DEMAND ENGLISH SERVICES AT A FRENCH HOSPITAL!! It's true, however, I really don't care that people can legally demand French services at English hospitals. It doesn't effect me. Signs can be bilingual in these institutions. I've been to the Royal Vic many times and most if not all signs are bilingual. The dossiers are always in both languages.

    "All professional and even non-professional practitioners MUST, BY LAW, pass a government prepared French proficiency exam, even if they never in reality speak French to patients"
    I think it depends on the field. I've seen some nurses in the English hospitals who aren't that fluent in French.

    "Where on Earth did you get this notion Lévesque EVER threatened to quit? He did nothing of the sort; far from it! He DID get rid of English institutions, except for English schools"
    I remembering reading somewhere that the PQ initially wanted to get rid of English schools altogether and Levesque didn't like that plan. The PQ regrouped all of the province's hospitals which were ran by the church until the early 60s into one regime and as of 1986, some institutions have been given a mandate to give English services.

    "There should be no cases. Even though the Supreme Court stated English only signs are not a given, then that takes away freedom of expression."
    It was the Supreme Court that suggested that Quebec make French predominant on signs, and it was also Trudeau and his gang who decided that the "mother tongue clause" shouldn't apply to Quebec regarding education in the minority language. Also, not everyone in the ROC is eligible for French schooling. Ontario and New Brunswick are the most lenient. Other provinces use a "where numbers warrant" threshold.

    As for your last paragraph, I don't know where you got the idea that I support them since I've been denouncing them on this forum. Don't you agree that Quebecers have an inferiority complex? Do you honestly believe language would be an issue of the francophone majority was not so insecure about its future existence? Bill 101 can best be described as a reactionary move, a move that according to the majority seeks to right the alleged wrong doings of the past (that is to say, the anglo dominance of the Quebec economy).

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  24. ...to Anon @ 2:27AM:

    Ohhhhh...but your last paragraph speaks volumes of who you are and what you're about!

    You'll have to, if you DARE, describe and elaborate on those "alleged wrongdoings" by your so-called "Anglo dominance."

    It's abundantly crystal clear you've fully bought into the Quebec gouvernmemama's propaganda machine.

    You're unequivocally stating there was wrongdoing by the minority in becoming the captains of industry of Quebec. You MUST educate the Editor and the rest of us readers of all this "alleged wrongdoing".

    You MUST explain why our captains of industry of the past are the villains of Quebec society for making Montreal once the most populous and greatest city in Canada.

    You MUST explain why those past captains of industry are, as you see them, larcenists. I take that as a personal insult because, as I've written many, many times in this blog about the story of my grandfather immigrating FROM RUSSIA, NOT ENGLAND, to Sherbrooke in the Eastern Townships almost 100 years ago with little more than a suitcase and the clothes on his back. If you've never done so, get a copy of Fiddler on the Roof. It's about 3½ hours long, but focus on the last half hour when the protagonist of the movie was told he had 3 days to sell his house and belongings and abandon his property, as did all the villagers. Sell his house? It was barely enough time to pack a suitcase and split! That describes well and fairly what my ancestors went through.

    He finally settled in a smaller Townships town and with very little started and eventually built up a few small enterprises to support his family of a wife and eight children. My mom was only eight when my grandfather died smack dab in the middle of the depression.

    My uncle, the eldest son in the family, took over the business with the assets fully pledged to the banks, had a good cry when he discovered this, but worked like a Trojan to turn their fortunes around and support his mother and younger siblings through those hard times. They never knew hunger or deprivation thanks to his entrepreneurial prowess and hard, hard work.

    By the by, if not for my equally enterprising uncle who hired some of your Francophone cohorts, they otherwise would likely have STARVED to death in that era!

    And so, Anon @ 2:27AM, I call upon you to please describe the wrongdoing my allegedly larcenist grandfather, and uncle who worked himself to death at the age of 52, did unto you and your people.

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  25. "Lévesque was much, much more skilled at testing the limits where Laurin and his Gestapo would have made vitriolic spectacles of themselves in the eyes of the international community."

    Levesque was such a bleeding heart, yet all these policies have been implemented when he was in charge.

    Sorry, it might be my innate cynicism and skepticism when it comes to political figures, but I do not believe for a minute in any kind of benevolence of that man.

    ----

    "Do you honestly believe language would be an issue of the francophone majority was not so insecure about its future existence?"

    Insecurity, even if it's real, is a lame excuse for excessive action. I don't consider it a valid excuse. Social engineering is too big a deal to accept "insecurity" as a legitimate defense even if insecurity is genuine.

    ---

    "Bill 101 can best be described as a reactionary move, a move that according to the majority seeks to right the alleged wrong doings of the past"

    A belief that 101 was to right historical wrongs would require a great dose of historical amnesia and selective memory, given the fact that France was a colonizing superpower at war with other superpowers.

    But it's possible that Quebeckers did (and do) believe it. After all, selective rendering of history is encouraged in every state (or province-state in this case), and it does appeal to the credulous masses who like to revel in the benevolence and nobility of their own cohort, and odiousness of all the others.

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  26. ...to adski: Please don't confuse my statement of Lévesque's political prowess of testing the limits with benevolence. M. Richler, in his requiem Oh Canada! Oh Quebec! ran into Lévesque at a Harvard U. mixer and talked about the language strictures. Lévesque ADMITTED to Richler he couldn't stand "Goebbels" Laurin. Richler retorted how this man Lévesque couldn't stand was in his cabinet. Lévesque then walked away with his patented grin and shrug.

    To respond to your last segment re Bill 101, the new Quebec Bible, people see what they WANT to see, hear what they WANT to hear, and believe what they WANT to believe.

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  27. ...again, to Anon @ 2:27AM:

    While I await your response to my posting at 6:43 this morning, I do want to point out that your perception is correct re French hospitals not reciprocating to non-Francophones. They don't! Simple as that; furthermore, I didn't state that English is not allowed on signs in so-called English hospitals, but French MUST appear on no less favorable terms.

    Based on your thinking pattern, you probably perceive hospitals, like the Jewish General, were built primarily to serve Jews. That is partially true. You hit the nail right on the head about church influence on hospitals. Before the JGH, Jews were not catered to in any way, shape or form. Kosher meals were not available. Jewish chaplaincy services were not available, and nobody, BUT NOBODY, had one iota of interest to cater to non-Christians, so my people who wanted these services, not to mention create jobs for doctors and nurses for those who were otherwise shut out from practicing their prestigeous professions, built a hospital.

    My late mother, MSRIP, served as a head nurse for a time at the JGH. She trained at the now defunct Montreal Homeopathic Hospital. The staff provided absolutely NO accommodation for her being Jewish. One kitchen staff member there did show my late mother a shred of respect. Many lunches served to the trainees there included a salad with ham. This one staff member understood our sensibilities re abstenance from pork, and she saw to it that my mother's salad was accompanied with chicken instead. Accommodation for religious observances? FORGET IT!

    If you think the JGH exists exclusively for the Jews, then then those of you who think along those lines are off your rockers! Her last employer, for the last 22 years of her career, was the Jewish Rehabilitation Hospital in Chomedey, Laval. Guess what, Anon? SHE was the ONLY Jewish nurse there for the whole 22 years. Some of the doctors were Jewish, but not the majority. The longest-serving doctors in the early years was a Filippino couple, both doctors.

    And so, Anon, I still await your response to my posting earlier this morning. Do you dare? Do you have the resolve, the gonads to respond?

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  28. Sauga,

    You clearly don't know what I'm about. I wrote "alleged" wrong doings because they're alleged. The Anglo community did so many great things and it's a shame that the majority is misinformed on these facts because their education system teaches them otherwise. When I study "Canadian history" in Grade 10, it was really Quebec history and told in such a way that you'd literally think that francophones were rendered second class citizens. Please don't put words in my mouth.

    As for your second response, English hospitals serve everybody and are meant to serve everybody. I know that, I've been treated there before. All I'm saying is that in English hospitals patients can demand English and French services all within the confines of the law. It's the same thing in most other places in Canada, in which provinces designate certain institutions to serve people in the minority language (French).

    Sauga, personally, the biggest irritants of Bill 101 for me are the signs (ESPECIALLY ROAD SIGNS), and the schooling provisions and it saddens me that too many anglos see nothing wrong with this or they have no means to express their views and concerns. While the federal government pays much attention to the needs of French minorities elsewhere, when it comes to our needs the government turns a blind eye and ignores us. Only lately have the feds attempted to help our community with the Canada-Quebec Agreement and such.

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  29. I meant to say "when I studied Canadian history in Grade 10"

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  30. "Richler retorted how this man Lévesque couldn't stand was in his cabinet. Lévesque then walked away with his patented grin and shrug."

    So he grinned, shrugged and walked away. See, this is the whole bleeding heart Levesque. He was so concerned about this and that. He opposed this, he opposed that, yet everything he "opposed" passed, and all the people he "couldn't stand" remained in his cabinet.

    That man was a phony through and through.

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  31. ...to adski: Aside from John Nunziata, Stanley Knowles, Joe Clark and about 3-4 others, they're all phonies through and through!

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  32. OK, Anon, now you can read what Mr. SaugaSaturday, November 12, 2011 at 12:25:00 AM EST

    ...regarding your not-so-clever disguise to your previous posting regarding the "alleged" wrongdoing by successful Anglos.

    It just kills you and those of your ilk too often smell the sweet perfume of success without being able to dab it on. You're just too damn envious to accept the fact your precious Roman Catholic church screwed the bejesus out of your simple and misguided society. Where the Church couldn't finish the job screwing you, your political leaders did.

    The bastard, Maurice Duplessis, died 200 years after Montcalm was defeated at the Plains of Abraham. Your people went from one false prophet to another. From the Roman Catholic Bible to the Charter of the French language.

    I don't know what you're all about, Anon? The HELL I don't! Amazing how you go from one commentary about "alleged wrongdoing" of the Anglos to "the Anglo community did so many great things", i.e., you committed a 180 (degree turn) from one posting to the very next. Make up your goddamn mind which side of the fence you're on. Then again, "sovereignty-association" means looking to have your cake and eat it too.

    Another thing you try to do is falsely soften the blow of your first comment by emphasizing the word "alleged". What you didn't do is substantiate in either of your comments what these allegations were.

    Anon, either you bloody well better substantiate what the alleged Anglo wrongdoing was, or exculpate your allegations and shut the hell up!

    My significant other and I both had grandfathers who came to Quebec and started up businesses and both hired your confrères during times when many couldn't find work and starved to death, or within an inch of their lives.

    My uncle died a young man working himself to death for the sake of his mother, five younger siblings and himself, to put food on the table and keep clothes on their bodies and a roof over their heads to stay warm and dry. He eventually married and had a child of his own and then died a mere year and a half after his son was born. WHAT DID OUR GRANDFATHERS DO WRONG? WHAT ALLEGED WRONGDOING TOOK PLACE?

    Anon, I KNOW EXACTLY what you're about! Your just another Francophone sore loser who can't substantiate what this alleged wrongdoing was, and you can't reach the heights of success our grandfathers did. They had little to start with but their wits!

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  33. Once again replies to Mr. Sauga...

    "It just kills you and those of your ilk too often smell the sweet perfume of success without being able to dab it on. You're just too damn envious to accept the fact your precious Roman Catholic church screwed the bejesus out of your simple and misguided society. Where the Church couldn't finish the job screwing you, your political leaders did."
    Dude, wtf are you talking about? I know what the Church did to the Quebec francophones population. And I've made it clear in my first post that I'm no francophone. I'm actually both, which I guess explains my liberal opposition to certain provisions of Bill 101.

    "you committed a 180 (degree turn) from one posting to the very next. Make up your goddamn mind which side of the fence you're on. Then again, "sovereignty-association" means looking to have your cake and eat it too."
    Reread my initial post. I said "alleged wrongdoings ACCORDING THE MAJORITY", meaning that THEY think that, I DON'T! According to the French speaking majority, they think that the fact that the English speaking minority held most key positions in Montreal was an injustice and had to be corrected. Again, this is ACCORDING TO THE FRENCH MAJORITY. It's also the narrative of Quebec's political elite. While it is true that Quebec's economy was dominated by the English, there is no evidence that any sort of discrimination took place against francophones. Like your ancestors, many people have settled in here and made a living by hiring as many people as possible, including francophones.

    "Another thing you try to do is falsely soften the blow of your first comment by emphasizing the word "alleged". What you didn't do is substantiate in either of your comments what these allegations were."
    What I was trying to get at is that French people were supposedly treated like second class citizens in Montreal and were forbidden to speak their language among each other. Again, that's not my narrative it's the narrative of the French majority.

    And with that, I got nothing else to add because it's a story about your ancestors in Quebec. All I can say is that my parents and great grandparents were also immigrants from the British Isles (namely Scotland and Ireland) and started from scratch. Somewhere along the line, my ancestors were mixed with the local francophones and voila! Here I am.

    And so again, I say that the francophone majority needs to start acting like a majority in Quebec. Just because they're a minority in Canada doesn't give them the right to stumble on minority rights!!

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  34. Anon, sounds like you're having an indentity crisis of some sort. Over 20 years ago, respected journalist Patrick Watson concocted and aired a ten-part documentary on the CBC called The Struggle for Democracy.

    Interestingly, Khadafi's version of democracy in Libya was featured in one chapter (mostly lynching his opponents), but that's not within the scope of this discussion, just a point of interest seeing recent events in Libya; however, another chapter of the documentary was entitled The Tyranny of the Majority. Quebec was not featured (surprisingly, but then again, the CBC runs on federal tax dollars so one must mind one's p's and q's). No, Ireland was featured. Watson's point was where something is good for an individual, the tyranny of the majority does not allow this good thing to happen. In this case a local community supported a woman wanting an abortion, but Ireland, ruled by the laws of the Catholic Church, forbade this woman from getting her abortion. Then again, when Jerome Choquette was Minister of Justice in Bourassa's cabinet in the early 70s, he threw Dr. Henry Morgantaler in jail for offering therapeutic abortions; paradoxically, the PQ eased up and left him alone when they got into power. The PQ gave Morgantaler a pass, but not the English language or its people who speak it.

    This whole language bullshit, and it is bullshit, has turned Francophone Quebec society into arrogant, rude dogs, esp. outside multiethnic Montreal. The real divide isn't simply who speaks what language, but also how long one has roots in Quebec and the color of one's skin. Either you're a multigenerational white, Roman Catholic Francophone with long established roots, or you're "les autres".

    You're not the first to fall on the wrong side of the debate. The PQ's first house leader was elected the first time the PQ fielded candidates in 1970 in the name of "Ro-BEAR" (Robert) Burns. He had mixed heritage and decided to abandon his father's Scottish/Irish roots in favour of his mother's «Québécois pur laine» roots. He became a provincial court judge in his post political life. I certainly wouldn't want him presiding over a trial of mine if I found myself in court.

    Simply put, Quebec and its majority aren't nice people anymore, especially the further you get from Montreal. I do think the Montrealers are getting better to deal with than during the late 20th Century, and therein lays the hope, but the polarization of Montreal and the rest of Quebec, the best hope for all is Montreal becomes a progressive city-state and leaves the rest of an arrogant, ignorant, regressive Quebec out in the cold to fend for itself.

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