The Institut de la statistique du Québec (ISQ) doesn't put it as bluntly as the above headline,
but the conclusion of a remarkable study it published is obvious:
for immigrants, the Quebec labour market is much more difficult to penetrate than in other provinces.
It is based on statistics for 2009, the last full year for which data is available which compares age, gender, education level, region of origin. The document provides the most complete portrait ever published on the subject.
In Quebec, immigrants occupy 12% of total employment, representing 451,000 jobs. It
is reasonable to assume that the vast majority of these jobs are in the
Montreal area, by far the first choice of residence among newcomers.
From
the outset, one figure is obvious: in Quebec, the unemployment rate among
immigrants is 13.7%, compared to only 7.6% among Canadian-born workers
(the experts call these workers "natives.") This
situation is not unique: in most countries of the Organization for
Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), there are variations of
the same order.
But the rest of Canada is able to do much better.
In Ontario, the unemployment rate among immigrants is 10.7%, compared to 8.4% among the "natives." Across Canada, the corresponding figures are 10% and 7.8%.
In
some categories of workers, disproportions are considerable: among very
recent immigrants (arriving within the last 5 years), unemployment is
only 7.4% in Saskatchewan, compared to 22.4% in Quebec. Certainly, over time, the situation of immigrants improves. Thus,
we see that in the long-term immigrants (here for at least 10 years), the unemployment rate falls to
10.7% in Quebec, but still substantially higher than the Canadian
average of 8.3%.
What
these numbers tell us is that the situation in Quebec can be reasonably compared to other countries
internationally, but in a Canadian context, Quebec lags far
behind.
What can cause this?
The paper, first and foremost is dedicated to describing the situation and thus remains fairly quiet on the subject. According
to the study director, Jean-Marc-Malambwe Kilolo, the relatively strong
presence of immigrants in a host society facilitates the integration of
new entrants to the labour market. But all things considered, Quebec attracts fewer immigrants than other provinces. We see that immigrants account for 12% of employment in Quebec. In British Columbia, the proportion is close to 27%, 29% in Ontario, with a high proportion of long-term immigrants. The statistical weight of Ontario contributes greatly to raise the Canadian average to 20%.
In
both provinces, immigrants are obviously a critical mass, much more
important than in Quebec and this can certainly contribute, through the
multiplier effect, to facilitate access to the labour market.
We must also question the usefulness of diplomas. The unemployment rate reaches 20% among educated immigrants from Africa
(including the Maghreb countries), but falls to 16% among Asians and
only 9% among Europeans.
However, the Maghreb countries (Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia) provide many more immigrants in Quebec than across Canada.
One remarkable statistic is that when immigrants, regardless of country of origin, decide to do their training in Canada or to get a diploma in a
Canadian educational institution, the unemployment rate falls dramatically to 8.5%.
The
document also sheds light on the very interesting employment rate (i.e.
the proportion of people of working age who hold a job). The higher the employment rate, the better. As might be expected, the rate of immigrants holding jobs in Quebec is 53.2%, well below that of Canadian-born workers at 60.8%. The most striking difference is for young women aged 15 to 24 years. Among young immigrant women in this category, the employment rate falls to 36%, compared 60.6% among "natives" in the same age group. The
document offers no explanation on the subject, but we can ask the question:
Could this gap have anything to do with the high proportion of North
African immigrants and their attitude towards women at work?
Download the report in French
See an important note tomorrow about this post.
Great Blog entry. Sad but true, immigrants will do better out West or in Ontario. It's our loss and they know it. The best and brightest immigrants avoid Montreal because of the added barriers (linguistic) here and forget about Quebec City. Most of the immigrants that do choose Montreal are gone after 5years. While immigrants do add value to society its the children of immigrants that usually end up better educated than their parents and earn more (ergo, contribute more). How do you fix this problem? My suggestion would be to stack HR departments in Quebec companies and govt with qualified visible minorities. At least then maybe skilled immigrants would have a fighting chance to land decent employment and actually contribute to society. The "pur laine" gate keepers working in HR departments across Quebec have been doing a great job keeping ethnics out. That's got to change.
ReplyDeleteMore Quebec basssshing!!
ReplyDeleteyou are again in our face!
I agree with DrunkGuy. I work on a bilingual team with my recent promotion. Of the eight of us on the team, NONE is Québécois de veuille souche. My manager is Lebanese, and first settled in Montreal...left. Another came to Montreal from Madagascar...left. Two of us are expatriates from the "English ghettos" (Dorval and Chomedey), two Franco Ontarians, one Mauritian, and another from Lebanon, the last four never settling in Quebec.
ReplyDeleteOn my prior team, over 12 years, our bilingual team contained seven Montreal area expatriates who either were Anglophone or attended English school, two Québécois pur laine (both returned to Quebec), six from Ontario who were in French immersion, one from Quebec City who has Haitian and American roots, one Frenchman (never settled in Quebec and returned to France), three Hatians (one of whom actually grew up in Montreal, the others never lived there), three from Mauritius, and over a dozen from other parts of Africa, mostly in the north, plus Rwanda and Bahrane, only two of whom lived in Quebec, and left due to racial discrimination in the job market.
Many who come from French speaking nations seem to know enough to avoid Quebec, but part of their reason is they bypass Quebec is to improve their English.
All in all, they bring interesting experiences with them with their international lives, as do my English speaking teammates. One amazing imbalance in Toronto is the number of Guyanese (South America) expatriates. Their population is only 700,000 to begin with!
In Toronto, we MUST hire immigrants, otherwise the unemployment rate would be devastating. Around the year 2000, "white" people became the minority in the GTA, so for those readers who see Toronto as a WASP nest, think again, and think hard! It was in 1960 that Toronto was just 3% non-white. In my 27 years here, I've seen change. The Montreal Area has taken on more immigrants too, a lot, but not like Toronto!
Quebec isn't doing itself any favours discriminating in their hiring practices, but Quebec is Quebec and either it will never change, or change will come about much more slowly. Where Quebec and the Real Canada differ is Quebec is, or wants to be a melting pot, where the Real Canada is a mosaic. Maybe Quebec would be more compatible with America, especially when America tells pur laine Québécois where to go with their French language legislation!!! Louisiana: Je me souviens!
First of all, congrats for the inflammatory headling once again. Your intentions come out loud and clear. One would think that if you hate this "backwards, racist, bigoted, xenophobic, corrupt province so much you would consider leaving this terrible place. Or maybe, possibly, things aren't nearly as bad as you try to make them seem. For all I know, you could be living in downtown Toronto right now, oh anonymous editor, which would explain a lot of things actually.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the article, at least this time there's statistics, rather than baseless paranoid accusations. Nevertheless, a 3% difference overall isn't that significant, espceially when EVERY PROVINCE HAS AN IMMIGRANT POPULATION FROM DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS. You're comparing apples and oranges, as you even specified in your text. BC draws more asians, who have a generally are better educated, the prairies draw more skilled labor for the oil and gas industry, Toronto gets a wide mix of different groups, and Montreal draws more north africans who can speak french but who are often less educated and come here because they get a better life than back home. Not that complicated, is it? But you don't care for that, you're just happy you got your biased headline.
First off, to the previous commentator... The non de souche are HOME!!! we pay equal amount taxes and deserve same rights as the majority...
ReplyDeleteas for the immigration issue, if as you say immigrants to Quebec are often less educated, how do you explain overseas trained MD's and Engineers working as taxi cab drivers......
in Quebec, institutional RACISM....it's acceptable... only De souche counts...
“Where Quebec and the Real Canada differ is Quebec is, or wants to be a melting pot, where the Real Canada is a mosaic”
ReplyDeleteWants to. Quebec wants to be a melting pot, like the United States, but it’s falling short of this objective. Quebec has failed, for the most part, in its policy of assimilation and “inter-culturalism” (multiculturalism Quebec-style, where other cultures are graciously allowed to exist on the periphery as long as they understand who the daddy is), whereas the United States succeeds even though it no longer pursues a state-sponsored policy of assimilation (like it did 100 years ago). Why? Quebec blames the Canadian policy of multiculturalism, but Canada has no jurisdiction over Quebec immigration and immigrant integration policies. The answer is much simpler and many Quebecois probably know it deep down – Quebec is an insignificant jurisdiction and immigrants simply do not want to submerge themselves into this society. Unlike immigrants to the US who want to become Yanks, the immigrants to Quebec (or Canada, rather) don’t want to become Quebecois. The United States, with all its shortcomings, is a superpower after all, and Quebec, even with all its strengths, is only a backwater with a big ego, so the behavior of immigrants is totally understandable.
One note about the alleged Quebecois racism. A lot has been said about the Quebecois being unwelcoming, but nobody has ever paused to think that maybe the Quebecois are rejecting the non-Quebecois because they subconsciously suspect that the non-Quebecois will reject them? Just a thought.
I find it comical when you get idiots using the words "Quebec bashing" when speaking the truth, when pointing out the facts.
ReplyDeleteLets give credit where credit is due. Quebec is an equal opportunity racist, bigoted society when it comes to jobs. At least the “French” portion of Kebec is. And this is what the language issue is really all about. Jobs, high paying union government jobs for frenchies and frenchie only. Go check the stats. The proof is all around you, if you chose to look for it.
You think Quebec is bad? Its even worse outside Kebec.
Its going on all over the country as they take more and more government jobs and funnel more and more money into french” speaking communities. These people are not to be trusted one bit. I see it in Ottawa all the time as they fill more and more jobs with frenchies who are NOT fluently bilingual. This is all part of the great phony bilingual scam. It has nothing to do with bilingualism.
The simple facts are as more francophone’s get hired for all government positions less and less English speakers are working for their own governments across the country. Don’t believe me; Go check the stats for yourself. Francophone’s are over-represented in all levels of government including hospitals, law, policing...etc. No fairness, no representation by population. They call it bilingualism, yet the term is never defined on purpose and believe me it doesn’t mean fluency in 2 languages in Canada, at least to the French it doesn’t. No political party will speak for the English speaking majority in this province and country. Practical bilingualism, where numbers warrant… is never defined on purpose. In Ontario and NB... it now means segregation. The metis-“french” are demanding French only facilities in all the provinces, not bilingual, French only.$ Bilingualism is really nothing more then a hiring quota for francophone’s and that is a fact…just ask yourself, why are francophone’s over-represented in all government jobs and how come more and more positions are being designated bilingual? And more importantly why are most of these people getting the jobs NOT fluently bilingual???
So while Quebec bans the English language (bill 22, bill 178, bill 101…). While ethnic language cleansing is going on in Quebec, the rest of the country is forced to fund whatever the French demand. This is going on in every province.
Wake up people; everything is going as planned. They have stated this is their goal.
What are they really up to? “First Quebec, then we take over the rest of the country, one step at a time…through bilingualism…” PT, “How to take over a country through bilingualism…” SD. How ? First comes the right to communicate with gov't in a minority language (ie French),then comes bilingualism, then comes the right to work in the language of choice(ie French), then comes a bilingual boss,(ie French) then comes a exclusively French department and on it goes until its all French. Its happening all over the country, Ontario, New Brunswick…That’s what’s really going on.Don’t believe me, Go check the stats for yourself.
Liberal, Tory same old story.
Solution? Well there is only one. A new party and a new leader. People from the private sector with no relationship to any of the mainstream parties. One that details before an election what they stand for. We need a party with specific, fiscally conservative policies. One that defines essential and non-essential (expensive waste) services in a platform before elections. One that will cut waste, reduce taxes, eliminate departments, downsize government...repeal bad laws (the charter, bilingualism, multiculturalism...Bill 101...), one that will tell unions to rot in hell. No more lies, propaganda, and spin, what we now get on a daily basis. Canada needs a party that stands for integrity, honesty, transparency and common sense. One that is proud of our real BNA history.
[More Quebec basssshing!!
ReplyDeleteyou are again in our face!]
The report is made in quebec by francophones and that is quebec bashing, i guess quebec bashing is anything to which you do not agree to, grow up and accept facts and try to do something about it, instead of f whining like a cry baby.
@ Anonymous 11:08
ReplyDelete"Lets give credit where credit is due. Quebec is an equal opportunity racist, bigoted society when it comes to jobs. At least the “French” portion of Kebec is."
I truly never cease to marvel at some people's ability to destroy their own arguments. Ever heard of "the pot calling the kettle black"? Btw your should join Howard Galganov's group, I head he's looking for a second member.
@ Qq chose de pourri
"The report is made in quebec by francophones and that is quebec bashing, i guess quebec bashing is anything to which you do not agree to"
The report is not Québec bashing, the title is, as is it's inclusion in No Dogs, who'se motto should be "Whining about (francophone) Québec, five days a week". We kind of got the general gist of it after the first few dozen articles.
"EVERY PROVINCE HAS AN IMMIGRANT POPULATION FROM DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS"
ReplyDeleteYes, what to do ?! Poor Quebec, it wants Francophone immigrants, but it doesn't like the colour of their skin, or their religions. The worst part of it is that in Quebec, even after generations, they will still be referred to as immigrants and 'others'. Most people I know of my generation, post 101ers, second gen Canadians, still schlepp part time gigs to make ends meet, even those with multiple degrees who substitute, tutor, and rent cabs on the weekend, or work dead end call centre jobs just to pay for the essentials.
Of course, if your name is Gaston, your odds of landing a cushy spot working in the public sector for an inflated salary, paid to a minimally educated individual, vastly increase.
The sign should read welcome to Quebec where you will live in ethnically and culturally segregated neighborhoods, where you will be denied political representation, essential rights guaranteed by the federal government, equal opportunity, and where you will be the scapegoat for a failed society that has more in common with apartheid than any other place in the so called first world.
My vote for the next provincial election is for the van doos to take over the assembly!
"More Quebec basssshing!!
ReplyDeleteyou are again in our face!"
That's right. In your face is the way we like it. Gone are the days of first generation immigrants who were intimidated and cowed by your racist policies and the 101 brownshirts. Piss on 101 and everyone involved. Equality for ALL Canadians, regardless of colour, religion, culture, or choice of language. If that's considered Quebec bashing, then put on the gimp mask pal because the whip will keep on cracking.
“The worst part of it is that in Quebec, even after generations, they will still be referred to as immigrants and 'others'.”
ReplyDeleteYes, but I’m not sure if immigrants care that much about this particular aspect. They surely care about the fact that the system heavily favors the Francophones socially, politically, and economically, but I doubt that they mind that Gaetan from down the street calls them “les autres”. In fact, considering that Gaetan is likely to be a welfare collecting oaf, they probably take is as a complement.
Non-Francophones in Quebec want one thing only – for the playing field to be leveled in terms of access to jobs and for a merit-based assessment of job candidates. I doubt that the immigrants want to dissolve themselves in the Quebecois society, and I suspect that many of them actually look down on this society. After all, they all immigrated to Canada, not Quebec. Quebec is just a side affect, and if it were a country, 99% of these people wouldn’t have ended up here.
Toujours la meme refrain, encore et encore et encore!
ReplyDeleteQuébec est xénophobe
Québec est raciste
Québec est pourri
Vous et votre site------ fatiguant
"Yes, but I’m not sure if immigrants care that much about this particular aspect. They surely care about the fact that the system heavily favors the Francophones socially, politically, and economically, but I doubt that they mind that Gaetan from down the street calls them “les autres”."
ReplyDeleteAgreed, to a certain extent, but the imposition of a state of otherness, or of not belonging or being a part of a society serves as a tool for intimidation. Immigrants, ethnics and anglos in Quebec have been existing as besieged communities for decades. Belonging to one of these groups is a lot like being a Jew in Borats village. Yes, you won't be lynched (yet!), but if they lose a referendum, see how fast the mob points the finger at the 'others' in derision and hate. It's a dangerous social construct that dehumanizes those not part of the majority and has had massive repercusssions throughout history.
http://www.imperatif-francais.org/bienvenu/articles/2003/discrimination-a-l-embauche-au-quebec.html
ReplyDeleteall these who are screaming "Quebec Bashing" are de souche...even though the study was made...in QUÉBEC!
"Vous et votre site------ fatiguant."
ReplyDeleteEffectivement.Nous devrions commencer a regarder comment se débarasser de tous ces anglos (bedbugs).Un autre petit "clean up" s'impose.Ils croient que nous ne comprenons pas leur tactique d'idiot,a savoir,monter nos immigrants contre nous.
Ce sont nos importés et nous allons les éduquer comme bon nous semble.
"Ce sont nos importés et nous allons les éduquer comme bon nous semble. "
ReplyDeleteYou've had this going for a long time already. Your re-education camps are called the "classe d'acceuil", which is a 10-month journey through Quebec history and politics, and taught by the most loyal and devoted adherents of the system – Quebec FSL teachers.
It doesn't seem to be enough though. What do you propose then? A 5-year classe d'acceuil in Lac St -Jean, followed by forced integration into the Gaspesie region?
"No Montreal for you, you maudit importés. We decide where you live and what you think. We, les Quebecois, vos nouveaux maîtres..."
"A 5-year classe d'acceuil in Lac St -Jean, followed by forced integration into the Gaspesie region?"
ReplyDeleteWow!!!Good idea dude!Need a job?Our secret organization is presently looking for people like you.($$$)
I am considering posting bioterror blueprints on all blogs until I'm banned. I had a hookup in the who I thought was cool, but wound up with two solidified chunks of god knows what after dried. Now I'm SOL my existing new connect. The allocation of the scarce resources in the future will be based on mind states beyond $10000/yr PPP (for which market forces appear very good). I hate myself so much now. CPC is taking us to a dead end where people get fat and live to 70s and die. And civilization might not survive AGW let alone future $quadrillions/yr market failures. Harper has put dealers in a position of power over me and I am seriously considering retaliating. There might be a manchurian candidate implant or drug that destabilizes Earth analogous to facebook spread of unrest now. There will be a need for a RW brake on that but Harper and GOP are arresting potheads and hard drugs users now without even considering effects of psychotropic fiending (smaokes), being high, non psychotropic fiending (coffee)...leaving us totally defenseless against the future. We could limit the number of people high on 22nd crack at any given time. Charge more beyond 1st two beers. Force free will with weekly or monthly sobriety discounts/legislation. I really wish I could get my serotonin or dopamine or whatever from families and a healthy relationship, but that hasn't been my life to date. AB is +$35B and minus $21B in revenue payments a yr. What is that adjusted for inflation historically? What will that be a carbon free future? What are the costs of following down the neocon road that has led USA to a deadend? Beyond the first $10000, sprawl is a useless arms race. In AB, a cool coworker mentioned how clean Cgy is noticing my 7-straight FT shift beard. A fat guy with a hotchick on the bus noted I could make $50000-$60000 telemarketing (hope he doesn't have diabetes or stroke). People made fun of a mentally ill guy who did the hardest job (picking on chimney fluff). Is fine but should've been making $10/hr, not $16+/hr. They used their pay to reinforce ego.
ReplyDeleteI can't buy coffee with a woman who doesn't want me. Can't buy peace of mind. That comes from good nuclear family or good Crowns.
To Dog killer from West Quebec,
ReplyDelete"Nous devrions commencer a regarder comment se débarasser de tous ces anglos (bedbugs).Un autre petit "clean up" s'impose."
Another thinly veiled threat. It's time to forward your IP address to the authorities.
Thanks for sharing, Phil.
ReplyDelete@ Phil
ReplyDeleteHmmm....a little early in the day to be blitzed, dontcha think?
"Another thinly veiled threat. It's time to forward your IP address to the authorities"
ReplyDeleteEt celui de l'éditeur de ce blogue en même temps.
To Dog killer from West Quebec,
ReplyDelete"Et celui de l'éditeur de ce blogue en même temps."
I know that you have been following this blog for a long time, and posting comments under many different names. Show me one occasion when the Editor threatened anyone. You won't be able to do so because he hasn't.
"I know that you have been following this blog for a long time, and posting comments under many different names."
ReplyDeleteEt comment faites-vous pour arriver a de telles affirmations?Avez-vous des preuves?Avez-vous accès aux adresses IP?Y-t-il une règle qui l'interdit?
Si l'éditeur de ce blogue ne fait aucune menace,il établi les conditions idéales pour que d'autres le fassent a sa place.Ne nous prenez pas pour des idiots s.v.p.
J'aimerais être informé sur vos sources.
Merci.
To "Anonymous" at 9:31am ... your English is excellent and eloquent but quite simply to deny the xenophobia here is because you do not live it daily.
ReplyDeleteI am an Anglo who lives east of St-Laurent and lives with the Quebecois, speaking French in much of my social life. My orders are messed up by waitresses at at least 10 times the amount of the Quebecois. At first new friends who hang out with me think it is an honest mistake by the waitress, but they see if often enough and start to see the pattern. Then they start to defend me. "Why did you mess up his order, but not mine ... it was perfectly understandable. This guy is Australian, not some Anglo from the West Island" I tell them to forget it ... I will eat what I am served. But they are suddenly outraged.
Then these same reasonable people who did not think that there is a problem will say to me "why do Anglophones speak so loudly?" when there are Anglos on the metro ... as if speaking English should be something done quietly in a French environment and I will have the answer as to why they are not whispering to each other. They will get upset because the guy at the ticket booth at an English cinema does not serve them in French ... "but it is an English only cinema", I tell them "there are no sub-titles ... you have to speak English to watch the film. If this were a Spanish language cinema and you spoke Spanish, would you be upset if the girl on the ticket booth only spoke Spanish?"
Slowly they come around to see it, my friends. That there is an attitude problem here that is deeply ingrained into the views of society here. I try getting something done at the SAAQ and am told I need to come back with more documentation, so my Quebeqoise girl-friend will go to the counter and get it done for me with the documentation that I have. The quebecois are good about helping me through the problems here with xenophobia. Life is just tougher here when you are not "pure lain" yet people all deny it. And here in this blog entry it shows that it is not simply anecdotal, it is born out in the data. And that is the point.
Dog humper from West said...
ReplyDelete"Nous devrions commencer a regarder comment se débarasser de tous ces anglos (bedbugs).Un autre petit "clean up" s'impose.Ils croient que nous ne comprenons pas leur tactique d'idiot,a savoir,monter nos immigrants contre nous."
Jeez, you're a charmer aren't you? Anybody wondering why the editor stays anonymous can stop after your bon mots. When you say West, do you mean the Western Front?
@Diogenes
ReplyDelete"...bon mots."
Voici votre liste de bons mots apparaissant ici quotidiennement :
-Seppie
-nazis
-douche bags
-racist
-fascist
-antisemit
-paranoiac
-xénophobe
-segregationist
-ethnics cleansing
-extremist
-terrorist,etc.
+ les autres plus subtils que je ne saisi pas.
@dog groper from the l'ouest,
ReplyDeletethank you for an accurate description of those that hate this blog.
"thank you for an accurate description of those that hate this blog."
ReplyDeleteTout le plaisir est pour moi Anonanus.Pas drôle de detester le Québec a ce point.Pauvres bedbugs!
April 6, 2011 12:47 AM
ReplyDeleteMore Quebec basssshing!! you are again in our face!
Ha! Ha! Why so mad? Can't face the truth about yourself and the lovely province of Quebec. Blog author hit a nerve again. Bang! Bang! It's fun, no?
Mon petite Quebecois fascist.
“but the imposition of a state of otherness, or of not belonging or being a part of a society serves as a tool for intimidation”
ReplyDeleteGiven that Montreal is half non-Francophone, the term “other” may apply to Francos and non-Francos alike. Just like we are “other” to them, they may be “other” to us at no detriment to us. That’s what happens when you have a 50/50 split.
This is everyday life. Of course, politically they control everything in the national assembly and can impose themselves on us as far as their provincial jurisdiction allows them. For example, the PQ can potentially seize power with 40% of popular support, and with 0% of our support it can then proceed to impose their rules on us. But does any of this matter in the long run? Probably not. This group can annoy, it can destabilize, it can instigate, it can antagonize, it can threaten, it can interrupt, it can buzz around like an annoying fly, but it can’t do any major damage. And half their rules aren’t even enforceable anyways.
“Yes, you won't be lynched (yet!), but if they lose a referendum, see how fast the mob points the finger at the 'others' in derision and hate”
Good points, but it’s too late for this to matter. Montreal is half non-Francophone at this point, and getting more non-Francophone each passing year. So I don’t see Francophones raiding Ville St-Leonard, Ville St-Laurent, or Kirkland with pitchforks, not because they don’t want to but because they don’t have the numbers (and because running away into the woods is more in their blood than mounting an armed attack). But if they ever do come, they’ll be in for a fight.
During the LA riots, the mob tried to raid Korean businesses. They thought it’d be easy prey. They were wrong. Normally peaceful, complacent, and polite merchants turned into gun slingers. That’s what happens when you come after a man’s property and his dignity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L5ttIHV12s
The same thing could happen here.