Wednesday, June 1, 2011

Quebec's Constitutional Demands?

BUSTED!
Yesterday I tried to show some balance and played devil's advocate in regards to changes in Canada's Parliamentary makeup to somehow satisfy Quebec's minority position.
I touched on the possibility of amending Canada's constitution and opined that perhaps Quebec would be more amenable to compromise in light of the province's deteriorating demographic position, perhaps ready to accept the old saw that half a loaf of bread is better than none.

I didn't expect commenters to agree with me but what I didn't expect was to be the beneficiary of a double whammy. An article in Le Devoir  proved my hopeful scenario to be hopelessly naive and unrealistic.  

I came across this piece written by Claude Morin, the old Pekist minster (and RCMP informant and his take on what a constitutional  accord would require in order to satisfy Quebec's basic demands. I thought it would be of interest to readers and so here's a translation. I'll save my comments until after you've read it.
TAKING THE NDP AT ITS WORD
"Through the  media we have learned that Jack Layton and Thomas Mulcair had delivered a speech with a "nationalist flavor" at the meeting of General Council of the NDP-Quebec in Montreal last Saturday. They announced that they would recognize as valid, the results of a referendum win with a margin of 50% + 1 and in general, would be ready to defend the interests of Quebec against the rest of Canada.

Excellent arrangements, but a little lacking. So I thought to present a memorandum containing a list of reforms, that when implemented, would contribute greatly to what is called the "cultural and linguistic security of Quebecers." It will be interesting to know fairly quickly if they support all these reforms, or only some of them and, if so, why they would reject this or that. Here is the list:

The Constitution, Basic Law of Canada should:

  • Formally recognize the Quebec nation (nothing cosmetic, Quebec would be regarded not as a province, but as the homeland of a people); 
  • State that this recognition is meant to foster a new more constructive Quebec-Canada relationship; 
  • It would prescribe, that in the case of dispute, the division of jurisdictional powers between Ottawa and Quebec and the allocation of fiscal resources be shared; 
  • Confirm the power of Quebec over its economic, social and cultural activities; 
  • Confirm that Quebec is master of its own affairs in areas that it already enjoys under the current constitution (it should go without saying, but would be better to confirm); 
  • Assert that the territory of Quebec is inviolate, and it is for Quebecers to determine their own future and their policies on citizenship and immigration; 
  • Clarify that this control extends to the realm of language (where Quebec's jurisdictions have been unilaterally reduced by the federal government and other provinces during the constitutional repatriation of 1982); 
  • Stipulate that Quebec would define the application of federal powers and spending in areas under its jurisdiction (with the right to compensation if Quebec opts out of new national programs); 
  • Confer on Quebec in its fields of competence, the right to represent itself abroad, as well as to speak and engage in its own name, in some international forums, and have its own representation in international sporting competitions; 
  • Provide for the participation of Quebec in appointing Quebec members of the Supreme Court and Senate; 
  • Ensure, finally, that once enshrined in the Constitution these new provisions would be modified only with the consent of the National Assembly of Quebec."
Claude Morin - Former Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs of Quebec- LINK {FR}
.....sigh
Actually what I think what Mr. Morin is describing is Sovereignty-Association.
About the only thing that Mr. Morin wants Quebec to maintain in its relationship with Canada is EQUALIZATION PAYMENTS! 

I am reminded of the fictional character "The Black Knight"in the film Monty Python and the Holy Grail. As the Black knight battles to defend a bridge, he is hacked up, piecemeal by King Arthur. As he continues to lose limb after limb, his bravado increases. Watch the clip on YouTube.
At any rate, it seems to me that Mr. Morin remains as deluded as the Black Knight and that his position is just as ridiculous. As Quebec's demographic and economic position decreases, its demands increase!
What the PQ couldn't win after thirty-five years of militancy and two referendums, Mr. Morin expects Ottawa to give away for free. ...argh!....

47 comments:

  1. @ les mots de Claude Morin,

    SHOVE IT UP YOUR ASS YOU QUEBECOIS LOSER (losiar)

    Tout es dit.

    Westerner

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  2. Mr. Sauga, in virtual hysterics,Wednesday, June 1, 2011 at 1:37:00 AM EDT

    The Black Knight scene was indeed hilarious, but I think Mr. Moron's was even more so. Throw the fat one who studied at the London School of Leftist Economics and you could have the comedy team of Moron and Parasite!

    As I was reading Moron's wish list, the song "Dreamer" by Supertramp popped into my mind followed by Dream On by Arrowsmith.

    It's incredibly shocking how those two nincompoops obtained degrees in fine schools like The London School of Economics and Colombia U. in New York. Then again, I've met some people from my alma mater, Concordia U. and wonder how THEY earned a university degree.

    At times I really wonder if there is a correlation between high education and intelligence. Moron's sheer chutzpah of that wish list is just staggering, for lack of a better word, and Parasite's rant of October 30, 1995 left broadcast analysts like Marc Lalonde and Bob Rae convinced he was drunk while delivering his rabid concession speech...on two different networks!

    To all of Moron's demands, my answer to each and every one of them is "over my dead body"!

    I'd accept, and even enjoy watching Quebec being partitioned should it choose to partition itself from Canada. Let the 50% + 1 who seek separation take their piece of Quebec, and let the other 50% - 1 take their half!

    The domino effect of cutting back all their social programs due to a worthless currency would be the other entertainment and I don't think anyone could even fathom the rioting against the separatist government that would take place in those circumstances. The vindication I'd experience while standing on the Ontario side of the Ottawa River would almost be too good to relish! There would be no fortress strong enough to withstand the wrath of the population from a government that would be forced to take away all the goodies Quebec has benefited from the federal system for the last half century.

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  3. @Mr. Sauga

    "As I was reading Moron's wish list, the song 'Dreamer' by Supertramp popped into my mind followed by Dream On by Arrowsmith."

    I think you mean Aerosmith.

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  4. One of the finest lesson I get from my business school: WIIFM. What's in it for me.

    If you are ruling in Canada, and one of your province demands plenty of things for its own benefit with NOTHING in return, what are you gonna do? What is in it for the federal government to grant the wish of the separatists when they are not even in power?

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  5. I have read most of the comments on the separatist newspaper "Le Pourboir" and the conclusion is clear: completely out of touch with the reality, head in the clouds, no clue about the difference between reality, dream and madness. Basically, they are already dead, but they do not know it.
    To quote our Latin wisdom: "Vulgus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur".

    WESTALLOPHONE++

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  6. ...to Edward J. Cunningham: Beg pardon. I can write reasonably well in the middle of the night if my passion is there, but sometimes my grammar falters. Yes, it's Aerosmith.

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  7. ...to WESTALLOPHONE: Re the Latin quote: OPTIME!

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  8. I'm negotiating a new job now. Maybe I'll copy some plays from Mr. Moron's playbook.

    These are the demands I will make of my future employer:

    I want 6 months vacation.
    I want to work 20 hrs a week max (no overtime unless I want to make extra money, at which point I get paid time and two thirds)
    I get to make my schedule.
    I can't be fired but I have the right to fire my boss.
    I determine what jobs I will and will not do.
    I get a raise every six months no matter what......

    Hey Mr. Moron, how do you think that would go over?

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  9. @WESTALLOPHONE++

    You're going confuse Press 9 again with all your fancy talk.

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  10. "...Arrowsmith."

    Un autre groupe canayen inconnu.Sûrement des Amérindiens.

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  11. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  12. Demand all you want scum bags. No one is listening other then the brain dead mainstream media. You are in opposition, PM Harper has a majority and you can’t do sweet piss all. So keep foaming at the mouth, keep spinning your lies, collect your fat pay check and shut up.

    Until you language Nazis in Kebec repeal bill 101 , just get lost and shut up. Take your welfare equalization payments form Alberta… yearly being a have not province and all…You are an embarrassment to the rest of the country.Just a bad, bad comedy.

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  13. For all the Bill-101ers out there: "Whenever government says they’re going to keep you safe, get ready, because you’re going to lose your freedoms"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzhdMgI3Z9I&feature=relmfu

    Editor, as might be of interest to you, I think that he might be right about future internet crackdowns. I heard politicians, including Obama, hinting at internet control. Let there be one precedent of this in the US, and the control-obsessed Quebec politicians will be all over it.

    I love the RT channel, btw. It's a Russian English-language channel, just as is Al-Jazeera is an English-language Arabic channel. Another lesson for the seppies – you want to reach a wide audience, use the English language. It’s good for you.

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  14. BlueWhiteRed,

    Actually, you are not far off. The Editor made a post sometimes back about Unions basically asking for more without substantial give on their part.

    http://nodogsoranglophones.blogspot.com/2010/11/quebec-unions-let-ottawa-and-our.html#comments

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  15. Claude Morin's list of demands might appeal to the angry old-stock white Franco Press9s that form the base of LeDevoir's audience. But it also says a lot about this newspaper that would publish this ridiculous thing in an irony-free, dead serious, literal manner.

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  16. adski said... "I love the RT channel"

    Ditto, great stuff - love the Keiser Report. PressTV (out of Iran) ain't bad either.

    DD

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  17. @adski

    "I love the RT channel, btw. It's a Russian English-language channel, just as is Al-Jazeera is an English-language Arabic channel. Another lesson for the seppies – you want to reach a wide audience, use the English language. It’s good for you."

    I think France24 has an English channel, although Sarkozy briefly considered shutting it down. Good thing he changed his mind since the whole point of France24 was to convey's France's view of the world outside France.

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  18. @adskouille

    Êtes-vous camelot de f.d.s pour "La presse"?

    En tout cas a voir votre shape (photo du profil) vous devez avoir des difficultés avec l'édition du samedi.C'est vrai que la pub a pris plus d'espace que le contenu.Hein kiki?

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  19. Monsieur l'Éditeur / Dear editor

    Pourquoi avoir fait disparaître ma devise latine?
    Vous n'appréciez pas les langues mortes?

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  20. "You are an embarrassment to the rest of the country..."

    ...And the whole world and the universe...And...

    Take your pills and go to your bed!

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  21. Le Devoir est probablement ce qui représente un vrai journal avec des journalistes. Pas de donneurs d'opinions personnelles qui se prennent pour des curés et nous font la morale... (Voir La Presse et The Globe & Mail, etc...) C'est quoi le problème ? Le Québec est l'une des dix provinces du Canada, si ça ne lui convient plus, une fédération ce n'est pas une prison à ce que je sache ? De plus, avec vos mots lourds de sens comme nazis etc... Vous démontrez seulement le ridicule de vos propos et de votre démarche entière !

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  22. @Éditeur

    Je viens de lire le texte de M.Claude Morin paru dans Le Devoir (Libre de penser).Un seul conseil:
    Ne devenez jamais traducteur.Certaines subtilités vous échappent.

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  23. I am sure Moron will get an audience with seppie Guy A. Lepage..on his weekly TV show which should be a victim of CBC (aka Radio-Canada) cutbacks. More suitably he should be featured on Infoman which would be viewed as comedy relief. Maybe La Flaque could do an interview with this idiot. Of course, they would need littel creativity to make him look like a cartoon character. LOL What a joke.. I like the demands of BWR as they are no more ridiculous as the demands of this idiot.

    Westerner

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  24. I want 6 months vacation.
    I want to work 20 hrs a week max (no overtime "unless I want to make extra money, at which point I get paid time and two thirds)
    I get to make my schedule.
    I can't be fired but I have the right to fire my boss.
    I determine what jobs I will and will not do.
    I get a raise every six months no matter what......"

    C'est la description d'un job de sénateur a ottawawa ça,non?

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  25. À Adski: "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine."

    -Thomas Jefferson

    Il aurait fallu le dire aux fédéralistes en 1995...

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  26. Re that YouTube link with Jesse Ventura:

    Too bad Jesse doesn't understand Quebec politics. Being American, he probably already perceives Canada as socialist; in fact, he had a battle with Bob Rae's Ontario when he was Governor of Minnesota.

    Both Minnesota and Ontario share a border, and Jesse had a ridiculous battle with the NDPites because there was a crazy Ontario law that stipulated fisherman coming from outside Ontario to fish or game hunt had to stay over in Ontario at least one night, and failure to do so meant the fish or game could not leave Ontario with them. Whaaa....?

    Had he learned how Quebec governs, what with their "no-scab-labour" laws, language laws and other ways Quebec overregulates everybody and everything on its soil, I think he would have reckoned he was standing on totalitarian soil, at least comparing the difference in the degree of regulation between Quebec and the U.S.

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  27. We can dismiss Morin's "demands" as delusions, but one thing is of note, is where he says: "a list of reforms, that when implemented, would contribute greatly to what is called the "cultural and linguistic security of Quebecers." (original: une liste de réformes qui, mises en application, contribueraient pour beaucoup à ce qu'ils ont appelé la "sécurité culturelle et linguistique des Québécois")

    “…would contribute greatly…”

    So after 40 years of concessions, and with Morin’s rather long list of more (and far-reaching) concessions (that would effectively transform the RoC into Quebec’s plantation), it still wouldn’t be enough. It wouldn’t close the case. It would only “contribute” to Quebec’s “security”, but would not produce resolution and closure.

    For anyone who still doubts that this is nothing but a bluff, a sham, and a racket, here is the proof.

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  28. Who gives a shit about the cultural the linguistic security of Quebec. The OLA itself brought on us by PET has cost hundreds of billions of dollars at the expense of English Canada to appease the whiners in Quebec.

    Its all quite ridiculous when one considers that french is not utilized more than 1 or 2 % outside of Quebec, where they don't really speak proper french, but rather the crude Joual.

    Lets put Quebec in its proper place which is the bottom of the cess pool which they are. A black money pit, if you will, always demanding more due to their special status which they have bestowed upon themselves.

    In reality their language is dieing, their culture is dieing and they should be took to task for all the ills and embarrasment they have brought to our Country. (FLQ etc etc etc)

    What has Quebec ever done for Canada, nothing from what I Can see other than bring destabilization. What has Canada done for Quebec, a lot including about 8 billion a year in excess tranfers per year.

    Nothing, absolutely nothing. Quebec is a void of anything beneficial to the country as a whole and still they whine.

    Quebec stinks.

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  29. C'est la description d'un job de sénateur a ottawawa ça,non?

    Or the typical life for a Quebecois union employee.

    Backsliders.

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  30. “Who gives a shit about the cultural the linguistic security of Quebec”

    It’s important in a sense that the so called “cultural the linguistic security” is a very ambiguous term and can because ad infinitum to extract favors and privileges. After all, you can’t quantify or define “security”. If a list of definable and final demands were to be presented, that at least could be deliberated on, the points of compromise could be found, or Quebec could see how many “demands” can be fulfilled, and if that’s enough or not.

    In this case, we’re not dealing with definable demands, but an escalation of ambiguous and abstract demands, a process that is endless and will not stop until the conceding party (i.e. the RoC) nips it in the bud.

    Like I always said, the “take it or leave it” approach is NOT smart when the grievances are first made, and I’m glad that Canada was attentive to Quebec when Quebec made its grievances known several decades ago. However, the “take it or leave it” approach eventually becomes a NECESSITY when it becomes obvious that the recipient of entitlements becomes unreasonable and doesn’t quit. It’s exactly the same principle as with labour unions, pushy bosses, feminists, gay rights movements, Montreal bike enthusiasts (that push the city hall for more and more concessions), etc…

    In a nutshell, it is very important to identify legitimate grievances and be able to differentiate between that and connivance or bullying.

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  31. Et c'est bien sûre,un Polonais néo-canayen pro-anglo qui va juger de ce qui est raisonable et bon pour la Nation Québécoise.

    "...It’s exactly the same principle as with labour unions, pushy bosses, feminists, gay rights movements, Montreal bike enthusiasts..."

    Totalement hallucinant!

    Quel mépris et quelle totale incompréhension de son milieu de vie.Un bon canayen vivant PARMI nous,pas AVEC nous mais bien PARMI nous.Les pieds au Québec mais la tête canada ou encore pire,aux É-U.Incapable de palper l'essence-même de ce que nous sommes malgré son long séjour au Québec.

    Une arrogance totalement pathétique!

    Bravo kiki!Dommage que je sois un des rares Québécois a suivre ce "Blague".Vous pouvez gaver vos petits amis anglos avec vos inepties mais pas moi,désolé!

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  32. “va juger de ce qui est raisonable et bon pour la Nation Québécoise.”

    Of course I am going to judge it and have an opinion on it, like I will judge anything else that has the slightest effect on the country I live in. And my opinion is this – the RoC is what it is, and it has the right to be what it wants to be. If you’re ok with it – stay. If you’re not ok with it – go. But, for heaven’s sake, stop trying to change it. At this point in time – either take it or leave it.

    Let me ask you this – do you have an opinion on Israeli-Palestinian relations? Assuming that you side with the Palestinians, imagine an Israeli coming to you and saying: “How dare you judge what’s good and reasonable for the state of Israel?” What would your response be? I assume the same as mine to you – “let me be the judge of what I can and can’t judge.”

    “Quel mépris et quelle totale incompréhension de son milieu de vie”

    Why do you people equate everything with “contempt”? And as for the incomprehension, I think it’s the opposite. I think it’s my intricate comprehension of your society that bothers you.


    “Dommage que je sois un des rares Québécois a suivre ce "Blague"”

    It’s good that you follow this blog. You’re the source of our daily entertainment.

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  33. Du calme adski.(vous semblez agité tout a coup)

    Personne ici ne remet en question votre droit a l'expression.Ma réponse reposait simplement sur votre capacité de raisonnement et de votre objectivité a titre d'anglophone minoritaire.

    Avoir un permis d'arme a feu ne vous donne pas le droit de tirer sur tout ce qui bouge,surtout pas sur la famille qui vous héberge.

    Que vient faire ici les conflits entre les Juifs et les Palestiniens dans le sujet qui nous préoccupe,c'est-a-dire les relations Québéco-canadiennes?

    Donner aux canadians le pouvoir d'évaluer et de juger des besoins du Québec (surtout a ce qui a trait a l'insécurité linguistique et culturelle des Québécois),reviendrait a donner aux pêcheurs la liberté de fixer eux-même les quotas d'exploitation ou encore,d'utiliser un loup pour garder vos moutons.

    "If you’re ok with it – stay. If you’re not ok with it – go."

    Le Québec étant ce qu'il est,le même raisonnement pourrait s'appliquer a vous personnellement et votre présence au sein d'une majorité francophone.

    "You’re the source of our daily entertainment."

    Merci,mais je ne sais pas si je dois rire ou pleurer de me savoir en compétition avec les médias américains.

    De plus il est fort impoli et tout a fait idiot de s'auto-proclamer porte-parole d'un groupe.

    Do you really understand french language kiki?

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  34. Haïti chérie dit: À Anonyme June 2, 2011 12:04 AM:''Quebec stinks.'' Si le Québec pue, c'est parce que les vents de l'Ouest ont poussé la flatulence qui venaient du ROC ! Je vous laisse deviner l'orifice qui en est responsable !

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  35. "Haïti chérie dit: À Anonyme June 2, 2011 12:04 AM:''Quebec stinks.'' Si le Québec pue, c'est parce que les vents de l'Ouest ont poussé la flatulence qui venaient du ROC ! Je vous laisse deviner l'orifice qui en est responsable ! "

    And where are there bigotted laws of language which restrict commercial signs and the education of children in a country with two official languages? Oui, Quebec le pue vraiment. Quebec truly stinks.. comme vous savez meme toi.

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  36. "Oui, Quebec le pue vraiment. Quebec truly stinks.. comme vous savez meme toi." Hein?What?

    Are you really sure we leave in a contry with two official languages?Hmmm...I don't think so.

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  37. "Are you really sure we leave in a contry with two official languages?Hmmm...I don't think so."

    Well, hmm, they do speak a lot of gibberish in the house of commons. Well, maybe not gibberish but a lot of JOUAL which is close to the same thing. Two official languages on paper but of course the people know much better than to invest any time on a dieing language!!! Good for them. Better to learn another more widely utiiized language (espangol par example) than one that is dieing and actually is utilized in a lot of third world countries such as Algiers, Haiti and soon to come Kebekistan.

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  38. "I think it’s my intricate comprehension of your society that bothers you."

    Yeah right!En plus d'être arrogant,vous avez un complexe de supériorité?Ouain,ça va bien a part ça? XD!!!Sans indiscrétion,vous mesurez combien adski?1m60-1m65?

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  39. "Well, hmm, they do speak a lot of gibberish in the house of commons."

    Hey ti-cul a moustache Hitlerienne!

    Dommage mais c'est pas toi qui décide quelle langue nous parlons et que mes petits enfants parleront,même a la chambre des communes.Si nous voulons parler joual,c'est pas tes criss d'affaires le nazi.Chez nous au Québec,c'est nous qui décidons.Si t'es pas content,bouche toé les oreilles XD!!!

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  40. @ Anonymous aka Press 9:

    "Dommage mais c'est pas toi qui décide quelle langue nous parlons et que mes petits enfants parleront,même a la chambre des communes."

    By the same token, you have no business telling Anglos in Canada (including Quebec) what language they should speak.

    If there is anyone who should be wearing a Hitler mustache, it is you, and your fascist compatriots in Quebec.

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  41. "Si t'es pas content,bouche toé les oreilles XD!!!"

    Pas de problem pour moi,,,quand moins que 15% des gens au Canada, parlons ta JOUAL. Je ne suis pas un Nazi, comme vous dit. En fait, il est vous qui pensez comme des nazis avec votre loi 101, 104 etc etc. Il y a seulement les lois de langue dans le belle province et pas de reste du Canada. Quoi est xd? Les anglais est belle, la joual est tres tres mauvaise. D'hors Quebec la Joual est tres petite comme vous savoir. bien chose pour tous le monde en Canada :):)

    Maintenant, allez vous a le depanneur et acheter un autre Pepsi. Moi, je me prefere le coke. LOL

    Vous et votre Joual sont plus drole.

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  42. "Si t'es pas content,bouche toé les oreilles"

    La Joual n'est pas la francais vrai. Juste un genre quelle est pauvre.

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  43. "bouche toé les oreilles"

    Tsigidou.

    You are illustrating your Joualness, t'sé.

    toe according to the reference attached is actually the Joual version of the proper french word "toi".

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joual

    Enteka, Je souhaiter une bonne fin de semaine a tout les monde, icitte, qui parlons la Joual. :):)

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  44. Haïti chérie dit: À Anonyme juin 3, 4h13 pm:''Joual (French pronunciation: [ʒwal]) is the common name for the linguistic features of basilectal Quebec French that are associated with the French-speaking working class in Montreal which has become a symbol of national identity for a large number of artists from that area.'' À ce que je sache, on parlait de classe ouvrière à l'époque, cette réalité n'est plus la norme. Les Québécois sont éduqués et maîtrisent autant le français soutenu dit international que les régionalismes de la langue populaire, ce qui n'est pas mauvais en soi. Avoir plusieurs niveaux de langage n'est pas un défaux... Que dire du slang canadien anglais et américain dans ce cas...

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  45. J'ai fait exprès pour vous faire réagir et je crois avoir réussi.Non?

    Pas très rapide l'anglo-saxon.En passant je suis titulaire d'un baccalauréat en rédaction et communication d'une université dont je tairai le nom.

    Je vous dit tout de même bravo pour avoir su détecter les différents éléments issus d'une des nombreuses variantes du français(normé) qu'est le joual.

    Je vous ferai aussi remarquer que le slang n'est pas plus élégant mais comme l'autre,est issu d'une certaine couche sociale et a pour le moins la qualité d'être aussi coloré que direct.

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  46. Must be why that many Quebecois film productions are subtitled for the benefit of people in France who do not understand the lingua franca du Quebec.

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  47. Phénomène tout a fait normal.Ce sont deux formes relativement différentes de français.Saviez-vous que les Français de Paris (français dit standard) ne comprennent a peu près rien du français de plusieurs régions du Nord et même du Sud...De la France même?

    Le même phénomène s'applique a TOUTES les langues connues,y compris l'anglais(que vous le vouliez ou non).Ce n'est pas votre langue qui est uniforme,ce sont les médias (canaux) qui la font circuler et qui ont établi un nouveau standard dit international,qu'est le globish.

    Faites-donc une petite recherche sur les variantes de l'anglais ou encore de l'espagnole dans le monde.

    Vous semblez relativement intelligent,alors vous devriez assimiler le tout assez facilement et comprendre que la langue "internationale" n'est pas l'anglais mais bien le glogish et que chacun des individus qui l'utilise,y met sa touche personnelle.

    Évaluation des linguistes:15,000 mots donc a la portée de tous.

    Si vous êtes de l'Ohio ou encore pire de l'ontario,votre vocabulaire et votre accent est bien loin de celui Shakespeare,croyez-moi.

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