Thursday, January 13, 2011

Quebec Could Use a Referendum!

A couple of months ago Michael M. Fortier a former Conservative federal cabinet minister suggested that Quebec hold a referendum on a regular basis and threw out a figure of every fifteen years. LINK fr

The suggestion was roundly rejected by federalists and sovereignists alike, a rare agreement that bears discussion.

Although such an arrangement would cost the taxpayers about 100 million dollars, the real price of a referendum can be measured in the pain and suffering it entails.  

As with the previous two referendums, the fear and angst suffered by NO voters before the referendum was neatly balanced with the humiliation and disappointment suffered by the YES side voters after the referendum losses.
For most voters, a referendum is akin to having ones wisdom teeth pulled, perhaps necessary, but not an experience that one would seek out on a regular basis, even fifteen years apart!

But for rabid separatists the desire for a new referendum is overwhelming. 
Many of the most militant among them, those under 34 years old, haven't had the opportunity to vote for an independent Quebec and the unbearable itch needs to be scratched.
These are the militants that are demanding that the Parti Quebecois make an absolute commitment to hold another referendum should the PQ win the next election, come hell or high water, but for Pauline Marois and other veterans of the party, the idea of a third referendum under less than 'winning conditions' is a case of 'twice bitten, thrice shy.'

Although it could never happen, the very best gift that Premier Charest could give Quebec federalists is another referendum, sometime in the next two years before the Liberals face their inevitable Waterloo at the polls.
Mr. Charest could call a referendum in order to 'clear the air.' He would commit, that in the case of a YES victory, his government would resign and abstain in a vote over the declaration of independence in the National Assembly under the new Parti Quebecois government.

Lunacy? I think not. 
It may be the very best federalist strategy available. The very reason Madame Marois fears a referendum is the very same reason we should hold one.

That's because the YES side will undoubtedly lose again and because any loss will mean that support for the sovereignty option is falling (because of the closeness of the last vote.) 

To put it another way, 'losing conditions' are just about ideal and federalists should play their own hand by demanding Quebeckers vote at a time when federalists fortunes are on a high and a time when they can control the timing and the referendum question.

Federalists wouldn't have to change any of the referendum rules other than the question. To do so would have the separatists crying foul.

All that needs to change is the question itself. In the previous two referendums, the separatist PQ government, in an effort to mislead Quebeckers as to what they were voting for, asking two very convoluted and muddy questions that left much to interpretation.
1980- "The Government of Quebec has made public its proposal to negotiate a new agreement with the rest of Canada, based on the equality of nations; this agreement would enable Quebec to acquire the exclusive power to make its laws, levy its taxes and establish relations abroad — in other words, sovereignty — and at the same time to maintain with Canada an economic association including a common currency; any change in political status resulting from these negotiations will only be implemented with popular approval through another referendum; on these terms, do you give the Government of Quebec the mandate to negotiate the proposed agreement between Quebec and Canada? 106 words
1995- "Do you agree that Québec should become sovereign after having made a formal offer to Canada for a new economic and political partnership within the scope of the bill respecting the future of Québec and of the agreement signed on June 12, 1995?" 45 words
 A crystal clear question is in the interests of the NO side. It will leave no illusions as to what is being contemplated and faced with a stark reality, some wafflers will be swayed to vote NO.

"DO YOU WANT QUEBEC TO SECEDE FROM CANADA AND BECOME AN INDEPENDENT NATION" 13 words

To what end you might ask?  
A fair and reasonable question. 


First and foremost it will take the wind out of the movement and put off the next referendum another fifteen years. At current immigration levels, it will mean that by then, close to one million new immigrants will have made Quebec their home and of these one can expect them to vote 90% in favour of Canada, making any chance at all for a referendum win impossible.
Secondly it will strengthen Ottawa's hand vis-a-vis the new Parti Quebecois government that is likely to be elected next time around. A newly elected PQ could not use threats of separation to  blackmail Ottawa. 
The tap dancing would be amusing to watch and all the PQ bluster would be about a threatening as the big bad wolf trying to blow down the brick house!

Hopefully, it will shut up the militants, to some extent anyway. 
The Young Turks of the sovereignty movement will finally taste the agony of defeat, just as their forefathers did before them and that, I have to say somewhat guiltily, pleases me enormously. 
They, like their sovereignist predecessors will inevitably suffer a crisis of confidence and fallibility, much as soldiers who are crushed in a decisive battle. 
Of course, a referendum loss will never make hardliners go away, but it will shut them up for several years until the next gen rises to take their place. 

Finally the Bloc Quebecois will face a true crisis of conscious- stay or leave?
Can the blocheads actually stay on in Ottawa after a humiliating referendum loss and talk about remaining on for another fifteen years until the next referendum?

Perhaps they will, but the merciless beating and humiliation they will face on the floor of the House will be amusing. No doubt professional hecklers, like the ever cruel Marlene Jennings, a Liberal from Montreal or the more idiotic Conservative LaVar Payne, a Conservative form Medicine will viciously remind the BQ that they don't really represent the will of Quebec. 

A referendum loss for sovereignists will be a heaping helping of humble pie. I can't wait for that!

It's weird to say it, but I share the very same dream with the most militant of separatists- a referendum as soon as possible!

Let's get it ON!!

62 comments:

  1. In most places, after ONE referendum the said issue is put to rest, but not in Quebec. We should have a 3rd and final referendum that will finally put an end to "la question nationale". With more and more immigrants settling in Montreal every year, their chances of winning are close to none.

    BRING IT ON SEPPIES!!!

    Anglo Montrealer

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  2. Anyone know of any recent polls anywhere that would give an idea as to potential results of a third referendum?

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  3. Chénier dit: Désolé pour vous mais la question nationale québécoise sera toujours d'actualité tant qu'il y aura une majorité de Québécois qui voudront prendre en main leur destin, en tant que peuple. ''Sorry guys'', le nationalisme canadien, ça c'est beau et grand, n'est-ce pas ? Les tenants du non ont tjrs voulu discréditer le mouvement indépendantiste québécois en le taxant de tous les maux de la planète. Par contre, personne n'est dupe au Québec ! Vos raccourcis vaseux pour exacerber le ressentiment canadien à l'égard du Québec, on en croit rien ! Vu toutes les magouilles (voir le ''Love in'', bande d'hypocrites...), les commandites et autres... Ne vous inquiétez pas, ça fait depuis 1760 qu'on se bat tous les jours pour conserver nos institutions, notre langue et nos particularités, ça va continuez !!

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  4. The two strikes were the referendums, and the third was the loss at the Caisse de Défauts:
    http://marketpipeline.blogspot.com/2009_01_01_archive.html
    See Konrad's article that was pulled down due to threats from Legal Counsel at LaCaisse.com
    Ethno-nationalism is out. Sabia is the beginning of the end for the Maitres-chez-nous!

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  5. Well, ok, I can see the rationale in the argument for a referendum in the short term. Only issue is that with an inevitable win for the no side (federalist), are the rest of us in Canada going to continually pander to Quebec with special treatments. Hopefully not and the referendum with a no vote might send a message to Ottawa that continued kid glove treatment of Quebec may no longer be necessary. I rather like the methodology of Reed Scowen where he indicates Quebec should be given an ultimatum to accept equal treatement to the other provinces or take the door. The separation card has been plaid too many times by Quebec in order to extract benefits from Ottawa at the expense of the ROC. Time for this to end with or without Quebec.

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  6. Hugo Shebbeare représente a lui seul une condition gagnante.Lâche pas mon Hugo,ton aide est précieuse pour la cause nationaliste.Tout ce qui manque actuellement,ce sont quelques projecteurs sur ton "organisation".

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  7. I agree, "lets get it on", please, the sooner the better.

    Just remember one thing you clowns. When and if you ever leave, you will leave with the same territory you had in 1763. That’s right, you will have your tiny, dinky little racist “phony french” state, but it will be a lot smaller then what you have now. I guarantee it. Now hurry up, get on with it bigots, get lost, the sooner the better.

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  8. I like your idea. I too would love to see the seppies eat some humble pie. But that would merely defer the inevitable, I’m afraid.
    I think Quebec is already too toxic for Canada, so I say Yes to a referendum. Not to stymie the nationalists, but to encourage them to rally the Quebecois and finally separate. I hope they find or manufacture that contentious issue that will light the fire, and finally let the pent up hatred for Canada burn. I want Quebec to go once and for all. I figure it’s too late anyway; Quebec has already separated by way of its constant violations of Canada, and its overt contempt for the English language. This fact will never change, and will continue until Quebec finally leaves. It’s time to face reality and the ensuing pain. Canada will be fine without Quebec. Canadians can work it. Quebec should take its debt and sink or swim on its own, whatever, who cares? If Quebec wants to be a sovereign nation, then so be it, but no shared currency, no shared military, no strings attached at all. Quebec nationalism is/was/always will be abusive and a rape of Canadian law and values, so no pathetic sentimentality either.

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  9. Comment received recently: Hugo est plein de bon sens. Comment s'entendre ? La personne qui pourra expliquer le respect aura la réponse. Une langue riche et leur apport au Canada le rend intéressant. Leur langue seule se mérite des prix Nobel et des prix littéraires...Merci pour votre site monsieur Shebbeare.

    http://www.sqlservercentral.com/blogs/hugo/archive/2009/07/14/i-am-a-champion-for-canada-et-le-qu-233-bec-est-inclus-dans-mon-pays.aspx - almost four thousand reads now, lets pass the message - mutual respect leads to a better Quebec, and Canada, for everyone.

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  10. I thought the 1995 question was a stretch, but check out the 1980 question. I mean what a joke.

    Editor's 13 word question should be it. When a jurisdiction X wants to separate from a jurisdiction Y, the question always reads: "Do you want X to become an independent country? Yes/No". I've never seen a referendum question that asked: "Do you want X to be sovereign, keeping in mind the economic partnership with Y, a new agreement with Y, a formal offer to Y, sharing the currency with Y…"

    The opposition to a clear question (like Editor's 13 word question) and to the Clarity Act in general makes me think - do Quebec separatists really want to separate? Do they have any confidence in the economic vitality of an independent Quebec? Do they have any confidence in the will of their own people to form a country?

    The answer to all these questions is No. Clearly. By no stretch of imagination. Their case is weak, based on historical nostalgia and ethnocentric sentiments, and on nothing contemporary and universal to which all Quebeckers could relate. At the same time, separatists doubt that Quebec would survive on its own (hence the emphasis on "economic partnerships") and they don't think that Quebeckers want to sever ties with the RoC (hence the insistence on keeping Canadian passport, Canadian currency, etc...)

    The main reason why I dislike Quebec separatists is because they're a joke. They don't mean a word they say.

    50 years later, and the 80% Francophone Quebec is still a part of Canada. The whole thing is a sham that’s meant to keep the RoC on its toes. It’s the slyest trick ever played by a jurisdiction on another jurisdiction. And it worked for half a century.

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  11. And the solutions are minority quotas within the QC Civil Service, the City of Montreal - because the govt workplace is segregated. Just look at the Job offers section (rest of the site bilingual, except this part of course): http://ville.montreal.qc.ca/portal/page?_pageid=7257,73605573&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL
    See what I just posted to the Quebec Office of the English Language

    And abolishing Bill 101 is required - Marchons pour l'abolition de cette maudite loi discriminatoire le 17 Avril 2011 SVP:
    http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=188473804513203

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  12. ‘Mutual respect leads to a better Quebec, and Canada, for everyone.’

    I agree, but I get the nagging feeling that the reality precludes such a dream. The Quebecois nationalist have made life-time careers out of bashing and ridiculing Canada, so how do we change that? Why should any sane person believe the Quebecois nationalist will soften and mature? The Quebecois nationalist are dedicated to fomenting intolerance toward Anglos and contempt for Canada. They are organized, obsessively committed, and have the backing of all political parties, as well as the myriad radical groups like the Jeunes Patriotes du Québec, who spread xenophobic intolerance under the guise of ‘protecting the interests of the Quebecois.’

    Then there are Canadians who are expressing their frustration with Quebec more and more. Canadians are far more informed and aware now than they were in 1995, due to the internet. The word is out regarding Quebec’s mistreatment of Anglos and Allos, and Canadians are finally expressing their outrage. Naturally, the Quebecois nationalists use Canadian’s discontent with separatist dogma and tactics as evidence of our disrespect and unwillingness to endlessly accommodate their special needs and fascist tendencies. The Quebecois see disrespect whenever their demands are denied. Deny their requests (no matter how preposterous or onerous) and they are wounded and inconsolable.

    There is no respect between the two sides at the political level. There is no respect between the two sides on any meaningful level at all. There never was and never will be. Tolerance is all one can hope for in Quebec, but that is tenuous and dwindling more and more every day. Sure the English and French co-exist fairly well on a day to day basis in a city like Montreal, but that has no bearing on what happens at the sociopolitical level. The respect you dream of would have to start at the top with political parties, government departments, institutions, unions, media, police forces, and more. Do you really think that can or will change?

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  13. I don't know, I'm kind of in favour of a vaguely worded question that will have the greatest chance of a "Yes" win. There are two likely outcomes: Quebec separates and the ROC is finally free of the Millstone of Confederation or, more probable, people flip out when the true implication of what they've voted for finally dawns on them and they demand that the vote be overturned. Either way, we'd never have another referendum on the subject.

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  14. Mississauga Guy to Hugo S...

    1 of 2:

    In your link above, you wrote: "We must promote Bilingualism since it is the best path to curtail this quasi-civil war continuing in the office spaces of Montreal; there must not be this so called failure to communicate (continuance of the two solitudes): it's ripping the country apart, wasting countless resources, and there shouldn't be such a denial on any side when it comes to something that can happen anywhere (listen to the words of Faithless` [inaction is a weapon of] Mass Destruction carefully)."

    QUEBEC DOESN'T WANT TO PROMOTE BILINGUALISM!!! Don't you get it? This is airy-fairy stuff I've heard forever going back to the 1970s, but Quebec is obviously in no mood to consider such a thing.

    Premier John James "Goldilocks" Charest, the most federalist leader in office right now in Quebec, didn't act very federalist in his implementation of legislation to counteract the unconstitutionality of Bill 104 when the Supreme Kangaroo Court handed the paper back and said "fix it!"

    And "fix it" they did! This kangaroo response made the Quebec politicians, the supposedly most federalist of the bunch, "fix" the minorities but good!

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  15. 2nd of 2:

    Premier John James "Goldilocks" Charest's "final solution" (where have we heard THAT term before?) was to bring back the good ol' days of giving lowly bureaucrats the power of God. This collective God could now say "no" to any and every parent who now pays dearly for three years of unsubsidized private schools instead of just one year re admitting those children into English public school.

    At worst we're only pertaining a few hundred children a year. In the mid-1970s, we had Premier Bou-Bou inflicting a mass language testing plague where the bureaucrats playing God. Sounds far too déjà vu for my sensibilities! Premier John James "Goldilocks" Charest has chosen to regress now going back 37 years by overempowering the lowly beaureaucrats à la Bou-Bou. Even the PQ saw the cruelties of that strategy and sought a more humane solution!

    Speaking of humane, Quebec's Great Charter provides two sections of the law to consider children with critical learning challenges AND extenuating circumstances on humanitarian grounds. Premier John James "Goldilocks" Charest deliberately and consciously chose to ignore them.

    Based on these foregoing paragraphs, Hugo, I have just two words for you: FORGET IT!

    Negotiate bilingualism? FORGET IT!
    Seek a "middle ground"? FORGET IT!
    Forced bilingualism? FORGET IT!
    Distinct society? FORGET IT!
    Quebec is a nation in Canada? FORGET IT!
    Bilingual today, French tomorrow? FORGET IT!
    Endless equalization payments? FORGET IT!
    My Canada includes Quebec? FORGET IT!
    Commissioner of Official Lanaugaes? FORGET IT!
    French civil servants over English? FORGET IT!
    French professional language tests? FORGET IT!

    Hugo, we have accommodated the precious Quebec you love that I was born, raised in and left to the nth degree, and it has NEVER been enough! You just don't seem to get it!

    I fully agree with the Editor--we need another Quebec referendum--AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL. How about we see what the rest of Canada thinks about all this. With a federal election likely to take place this year, why don't we add a plebiscite to the ballot? I reckon if at least 50% + 1 of Canadians vote in favour of Quebec's deconfederation from Canada with a fair and straightforward question, the Quebec people should be given one year to reform as a fair and equal partner of our confederacy if they say no to separation themselves. If at least 2/3rds of the Canadian population say no, that's a ratio of 2:1 against keeping Quebec in confederation and a separation treaty should be worked out ASAP.

    40 years of endless wrangling is enough. Quebec has a unilateral say twice already and now it's time for Canada to have our own say.

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  16. "I think Quebec is already too toxic for Canada..."

    I think Alberta is a lot more toxic.

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  17. @H.S

    Selon toutes probabilités,vous devriez être une bonne douzaine lors de votre manifestation (contre la loi 101) alors, s.v.p ne dépensez pas les deniers publiques en demandant la protection des forces de l'ordre.
    Voici quelques bons trucs économiques : Utilisez des casques de moto intégrales (full face) et des couvercles de poubelles de métal en guise de boucliers.Scandez vos revendications en français pour éviter toutes confrontations inutiles.

    Bonne chance!
    Good luck!

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  18. QUEBEC doesn't have to promote bilinguilism. They are. They want to PRESERVE THEIR FRENCH.
    They are the first european civilized nation to build and conquer.
    Contrary to Ontario who isn't really bilingual, where it is a lipservice.
    WHY WOULD QUEBEC PROMOTE ENGLISH !
    If the English doesn't admit they were here first,
    they will be kick out first !

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  19. "I guarantee it. Now hurry up, get on with it bigots, get lost, the sooner the better."

    Mr.Redskin,Did you take your pills today?Dr.Dave,can you help this guy?

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  20. May 1980: When the first referendum took place I was only a small child. I remember being terrified that the "Yes" side might win, as it'd mean my parents would be forced to move to another province (i.e. lose my house, my friends, my school, close contact with relatives and lose the only city I knew as my "home"; back then it was Chomedey, Laval). I was too young to really understand the situation, just as three years earlier I was perplexed and confused seeing cranes and people on ladders taking down English signage all over the city as a result of PQ and Bill 101.

    October 1995: By the second referendum I was in my mid-20's. Being the first time I could vote in a referendum, and because of my utter loathing and contempt of the Parti Quebecois, language laws and everything that Quebec stood for, I proudly voted "No". It was my way of finally having a voice after all these years of suffering (another was voting against the PQ in the fall of 1993, even though the PQ won). Yet contradictory to how I voted, I *REALLY* wanted the "Yes" side to win. Certainly Quebec was, and always had been my home. The only place I'd ever known, with all my friends and family in this province, but I found myself continually disturbed by the language laws and fact I was a second class citizen. Really just the province as a whole. A "Yes" win would force me to leave, and my friends and family too. A well needed PUSH to leave. The "No" side won, and while many still did leave, for some reason I stuck around...hoping it would change. Never did, and in fact got worse.

    As for a third referendum, if one were to be called today, in 2011, I would now vote "Yes". Not as a push to finally leave Quebec (I've already decided...part of Canada or not, I can't live in this province any longer) but to kick Quebec out of Canada. It's like you stop sleeping with and talking with the person you loath, but let them stay in your house. You need to kick them out of your life entirely!

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  21. MGuy, I understand, the appeasement has to end.
    The change to be pro-Canadian, has to come from within QC itself largely, hence my whole-hearted support for the translation of someone doing just that, Philippe Allard http://www.sqlservercentral.com/blogs/hugo/archive/2010/09/30/when-the-bloc-qu-233-b-233-cois-is-a-nuisance-for-quebeckers-interests-the-top-20-countdown.aspx See all the comments too, we are getting about a thousand reads a month :) He is totally aware of the stupidity of ethno-nationalism.

    Sometimes things have to get worse before they get better, and the recent unhindered discrimination has shown how bad it can get. We can never give up the fight against tyranny - the dogma of eternal torment exists for a reason.

    Heck, here's the Blueneck misfit himself painting my name on his page:
    http://louisprefontaine.com/2011/01/09/delire-persecutoire-minorite-anglophone#commentaires

    I respond to him, as do many, and all the responses are edited or cut out entirely. But I still say, beat up the bullies - that is how you deal with corruption. There is a turning point, and I will get the Federal Liberals in line to attack the Clannista soon enough with a the March against Bill 101.

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  22. See what a friend wrote:
    Ce n'est pas avec des lois que l'on protège une langue, mais en donnant le gout de lire, d'écrire et de communiquer correctement dans cette langue. Pourquoi ne pas se donner les moyens de valoriser cette langue plutôt que de dévaloriser celle des autres? Cela demanderai trop d'efforts?

    I guess that would be too progressive to QC's extremists.

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  23. I love your blogs, they are incredibly awesome and generally hit it right on the money.

    I am a proud Anglo and I LOVE the English language. I am not against the french at all, I just wish this damned province believed in equality. Why should I be udermined because I'm anglo? Why should my rights be ignored because I'm anglo? Why should I suffer because I'm anglo. It's not fair. The Quebec Government is full of prejudice against anglophones in Quebec and it needs to stop. End of story.

    Would I like to see Quebec separate? Hell yes! Then I would giggle my CANADIAN ass off while I watched it fall on it's face. Quebec cannot survive without Canada.

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  24. The province of Quebec doesn't have to become English, because they are not equal to you. A language is not a switch you turn on or off. It wears of if you turn it to another power.
    You are suffering as an Anglo in QC ? because you are a minority.
    Quebec is separate, independant, is a nation, has its culture, his own tribunals, education system, they are working on repopulate in French etc.....
    Minorities have the right to protect their language.
    You are lucky to have so much English around you, this is not the case of the francophones in ONtario. Believe me. If you are so unhappy, you will have to find another apt in the huge country, yes huge country call Canada....
    Your ass will find another english ass there and you won't be able to speak another language.
    END OF STORY MA BELLE !

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  25. @5:28

    Tout a fait d'accord.Ces anglos (pas tous) ont beaucoup de difficultés a accepter leur statut de minorité chez-nous.J'avoue que leur situation ne doit pas être facile tous les jours.

    Vivre en anglais dans une ville Francophone et s'entêter a y demeurer sans vouloir s'y intégrer, doit demander des efforts quotidiens.Il y a certainement des avantages ici qu'on ne retrouve pas en ontario.Enfin!Gardons un peu de compassion envers leurs tristes réalités et espérons que Mélissa trouvera un trou du cul a la mesure de ses attentes,chez-nous ou ailleurs.

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  26. "...this damned province believed in equality..."

    Comment une souris peut-être égale a un éléphant.
    Si ces deux entités se retrouvent dans une même pièce,laquelle sera en danger?...tic...tac...tic....tac...Bravo!Bonne réponse!Vous êtes très intelligente!

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  27. "Quebec is separate, independant, is a nation, has its culture, his own tribunals, education system, they are working on repopulate in French"

    Not really. Ok, maybe when you smoke a doober and jazz out to Floyd, but not in reality. Quebec is not a nation within Canada, nor is it a Reserve for Francophones. This status is reserved for the dispossessed First Nations, not for those who took part in the expropriation of their lands. In fact, Quebec meets none of the criteria of a nation, in any way, and you can thank political whoredom for any such recognition.

    "You are lucky to have so much English around you,"

    It's not a matter of luck but of the realities of the modern world. Everyone strives to speak the language that helps us communicate on a global scale. Except for Quebecers it seems, but good for you for being among the exceptions. You can at least read and respond to ideas you like or don't like. The same can't be said for the majority of Francophones who can't read street signs a few miles from their homes, across any border.

    "If you are so unhappy, you will have to find another apt in the huge country,"

    Again, no!!! You are not part of a sovereign nation. Until this day comes, Quebec remains an illegal and immoral entity within the federation. We have every right to be here whether you want us or not and our continued presence, coupled with the increased influx of immigrants who don't give a shit about your regional historical differences, will only ensure the eventual downfall of 101. Cecede, or become extinct as a freeloading, xenophobic, racist community.
    BTW, I hear there are a lot of French speakers in Belgium, France, Algeria and Switzerland. Maybe you should consider a move yourself.

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  28. @anon 7.29


    Vraiment,vous me semblez très cultivé.Vous êtes probablement américain.Il y a des Français en France et en Belgique?Qui l'eut cru?

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  29. Oui, nous sommes souverains, Le Québec aux Québécois ! Si vous critiquez tant, c'est que vous êtes mécontents. On ne devient pas heureux en changeant les gens autour de nous, mais en se changeant SOI MEME!

    IT IS YOU WHO SHOULD CHANGE AS YOU ARE SO UNHAPPY:
    why ?



    The French Nation was here 400 years ago!

    The French Nation was the first European civilized people to settle. We owe them respect and help preserving such beautiful people;

    The French Nation deserves to be preserved and respected; The Quebec Act was given them all those rights you want to withdraw in 1774 !

    The French Nation is different from the people living in the English provinces; they are a distinct society (ridiculous thing to say, in front of Europe, it shows you are uncapable to recognize people are different through cultures, systems and languages !-- quel narcissisme ! )

    The French language is an "adstrat" like the one in Belgium, in Aosti etc... and is allow to live proud and free.

    ------------------------------------------------

    If you want to be a citizen of Quebec you should be a respectable person, and you should face the following:


    1. Integrate as a minority;
    2. Live in French (OR BILINGUALLY)with the FRENCH MAJORITY, surrounded with anglophones;
    3. SUBMIT AS A MINORITY TO THE FRENCH MAJORITY;
    4. respect and let the French live in peace as they allow you to make a living ON THEIR TERRITORY;
    5. Contribute to the development and the aims of your community;


    =============================================
    The laws to protect French are more than legitimate they are honorable, and a gesture to protect the people who founded this country, are imperative.

    The anglophones are in majority, so they don't need to protect their language, their language is not treathened. ONU is helpin a lot of other people to preserve their languages as well ! go see on their offical site !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    --------------------------------------------

    If you are insisting to live in Quebec and impose yourself as an Anglophone against their culture, their language, their land, their system, it is because your place of living is not the right one. You cannot tell Quebec to displace themselves,,,, hello !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    =================================================

    There should be laws to stop individual like yourself to such behaviour and you should be force to leave without 24 hours after a court order.

    You are trespassing all elements of morality, and such iniquity shouldn't be tolerated.
    I reproach the actual Quebec Government to not act on individuals like yourself. You should be extradite and your space would make room to professionals inter-married to francophones with education and multilingual. They could have a chance to re=integrate after they left, at the time of recessions. Those are the people Quebec should be made of : proud, happy and educated.

    If I would be in power I would put a court order against you, you would be in violation of trespassing and your villainy should be public. Your face and PUBLIC exposure would be quite a punishment to show YOUR INTOLERANCE IN THE FACE OF THE WORLD as a PUBLIC offender.

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  30. Time and time again. One more time. Canada would be far better with Quebec gone with no further association financially, culturaly or poltiically. Quebecois be better off, who cares. I wish Quebec would separate but realice they never will as they are too addicted to the welfare payments from Canada from those they so despise. Quebec is a parasitic backwater region of Canada that should be allowed to separate, if they wish. Quebec has provided only a negative influence to Canada and has never offered anything positive to the ROC. Just think how much better Canada would be without this ball an chain.

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  31. @ anom 9:05

    The Quebecois are disliked wherever they travel and interract with people. Please leave Canada so we don't have to endure the continuing embarrasement that you provide to our Country. I am tired of apologizing.

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  32. @anon 9:05 and all the other pur lainer chauvanists out there

    I can't help but see that you think the quebec government and some grand quebec army will kick out the anglos and allos.

    Sorry to pop your bubble but Quebec will be a Banana republic and none of you pur lainers would have the guts to join a full fledged army.

    "the republique Banane de Quebec" would not even be able to handle another oka crisis.

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  33. Replies
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  34. 'The anglophones are in majority, so they don't need to protect their language, their language is not treathened.'

    I beg to differ...

    The anglophone community of QUEBEC (where MANY anglophone families have been for centuries, back when Quebec was English) is absolutely threatened. How can you have this attitude that someone should be kicked out or assimilate to a new culture of their homeland because at some point during their life, the official language changed? How are anglophone Quebecers any less entitled to be in Quebec than French Quebecers?

    'If you are insisting to live in Quebec and impose yourself as an Anglophone against their culture, their language, their land, their system, it is because your place of living is not the right one. You cannot tell Quebec to displace themselves'

    Again, 'their land'? Some anglophone families have been in Quebec possibly longer than your French family has! Who's land is it, really?

    'If I would be in power I would put a court order against you, you would be in violation of trespassing and your villainy should be public. Your face and PUBLIC exposure would be quite a punishment to show YOUR INTOLERANCE IN THE FACE OF THE WORLD'

    Which intolerance do you refer to, that of the Anglophones? I think you need to look in the mirror and reconsider that statement.

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  35. LE QUEBEC AUX QUEBECOIS EN FRANCAIS.
    Puisque vous êtes si entêté voici ce à quoi j'ai songé:


    Voici quelques articles de la République de la Nouvelle-France:

    Tout être humain a droit au développement et au plein épanouissement de sa personnalité dans ses dimensions matérielle, intellectuelle et spirituelle. LE QUEBEC doit assurer à tous les citoyens l'égal accès à la santé, à l'éducation, à la culture, à l'information, à la formation professionnelle et à l'emploi en français.

    LE QUEBEC a le devoir de sauvegarder et de promouvoir les valeurs nationales de civilisation ainsi que les traditions culturelles non contraires à la loi et aux bonnes moeurs des français.

    LE QUEBEC et ses Collectivités publiques ont le devoir de veiller au développement de la jeunesse française. Ils créent les conditions favorables à son éducation civique et morale et lui assurent la protection contre l'exploitation et l'abandon moral en français.

    La liberté de pensée et d'expression, notamment la liberté de conscience, d'opinion religieuse ou philosophique sont garanties à tous, sous la réserve du respect de la loi, des droits d'autrui, de la sécurité nationale et de l'ordre public en français.

    Chacun a le droit d'exprimer et de diffuser en français ses idées. Toute propagande ayant pour but ou pour effet le contraire, ou d'encourager la haine raciale ou religieuse est interdite.

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  36. I guess Lori=Ann doesn't know her time line. Quebec is not English, Ma belle, go back to your books.

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  37. Hey anonymous dickweed, I'm not your belle. I never said Quebec is English. Learn how to read.

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  38. YOU ARE THE INTOLERANT ONE, SO LIVE AND LET LIVE ! stupid chics like you shouldn't be
    in QC and claim they don't understand the
    basics of a country which belongs to French QC ?
    Lower Canada used to be also certain parts of Ontario.

    I suppose you are one of them who can't even say one word in French, it hurts your tongue, twist your teeth, and gives you a headache ?

    Poor,poor little girl....Learn to read in between the lines if you can't speak or read, nor write French.

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  39. To ALLCAPS @11:47

    Dude, WTF?

    Did you actually use the term "stupid chics"?

    argh.......

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  41. @ 10:26 pm

    "learn French or GET OUT !"

    Agreed! You Quebecois should learn French or GET OUT ! Right now you speak this bizarre language called "Joual" which isn't even remotely recognizable as French.

    Even France redubs your Quebec-Joual movies because they cannot understand what language you're speaking. Another fact, they find it harsh on their ears and grating.

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  42. "The French Nation was here 400 years ago!"

    Sorry but that is a myth! The French only came to Quebec in the last 125 years. What proof do you have that there were any French roots in this province before 1885? Now if you want to talk about 1955, 1985, you may have a point. And who knows how many French speakers will be around by 2015? Great Scott!

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  43. "La liberté de pensée et d'expression, notamment la liberté de conscience, d'opinion religieuse ou philosophique sont garanties à tous, sous la réserve du respect de la loi, des droits d'autrui, de la sécurité nationale et de l'ordre public en français"

    Classic example of "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" (Animal Farm).

    You are allowed to do what you want and think what you want, as long as it falls in line with Quebecoise way of thinking and doing things, and is of course stated in French!

    What a joke, do you even read what you write before you write it? What you wrote is completely racist, in the 18 century and today.

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  44. Chénier dit:Doctor E.L.B., lisez un livre d'histoire, vous comprendrez que les français ont fondés plusieurs grandes villes américaines et étaient à Gaspé en 1534. Après, tout est question de mathématiques: 2011-1534= 477 années. Si la lecture n'est pas votre fort, lisez le dictionnaire des noms propres à Québec.

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  45. Now wait just a minute here, my boy. By my account and records there is no Gaspé. And there never were any French settlers in this Quebec you speak of. As a matter of fact there is no proof there was ever a war between the English and French in this region you call "Quebec".

    Clara, myself and the boys went back to investigate 1534 and may have accidentally left something behind, or did something to effect the course of events!

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  46. Where were you educated ?
    Probably high school, English High School.

    Accosté en 1534 par l'explorateur français Jacques Cartier, premier Européen à poser le pied sur le continent depuis les Vikings, le Canada prend son origine en tant que colonie française sur le territoire de l'actuelle ville de Québec, fondée par Samuel de Champlain en 1608 dans la vallée du fleuve Saint-Laurent. Le territoire fut d'abord occupé par les peuples autochtones avec qui les Français développèrent des relations diplomatiques. La colonisation française amènera, jusqu'à la conquête britannique en 1763, 69 000 immigrants français en Amérique du Nord. Après la Conquête, les Britanniques s'approprieront les terres de la Nouvelle-France. Puis, commencera une période de colonisation anglaise, principalement grâce à l'arrivée de colons loyalistes venus de Nouvelle-Angleterre après la révolution américaine. Plus tard, en 1867, les Britanniques créeront le Dominion du Canada, né de l'union .... etc

    You are smart enough to erase my part of history, but I am smart enough to remind you.
    Before you open your big mouth, try to get an
    education.

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  47. Great scott! You're questioning my education? Sir, I am a student of all sciences! By trade I am a humble scientist, physicist and inventor.

    Don't you see? None of this French history your telling me about exists any longer! 1534, 1608, 1763...wait, I'm checking historical records I brought back with me. Damn. Damn, damn! I've checked all these dates and none these events ever happened now! Jacques Cartier never left France I'm afraid! You see, he discovered this certain almanac...and well, never came to the new world. He had other interests, nothing good let me tell you! So you see, there never were 69 000 French immigrant, or Samuel de Champlain. The British never conquered the French!

    What's all this blathering about my big mouth? Yes, yes, part of history has been erased, that's precisely what I'm trying to tell you! As my old friend would say, this is heavy!

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  48. @anon 10:26

    Who is going to make me get out? I won't speak French in Quebec period.

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  49. "Who is going to make me get out? I won't speak French in Quebec period."

    I'm with you pal. I've been doing the very same thing for the past two years. Resisting legislation that is based on racism and seeks to subjugate minority populations is a moral responsibility. If the federal government has misplaced its moral compass, it's up to us to stand up for our rights and our cultures.

    "respect and let the French live in peace as they allow you to make a living ON THEIR TERRITORY;"

    Respect can only be earned, not imposed. Unfortunately, since the imposition of legislation that steps on our rights, this respect will have to be granted on a person to person basis since the majority of Francophones seem to support the political and cultural segregation of other ethnicities.
    To point out the obvious, if this was your territory, then it would not be littered with Canadian military bases flying the Maple Leaf.


    "3. SUBMIT AS A MINORITY TO THE FRENCH MAJORITY;"

    What you fail to recognize is that many of the immigrants in Quebec have a very different historical past than yours. My native nation fought six wars against domination and subjugation by larger nations, quite successfully, in the past 150 years. Other, immigrants have experiences of living under such pressures more recently, which is why they moved to Canada in the first place. You won't find us as docile as the Anglophone community when bombs were planted in their neighbourhoods in the 70s, and historically speaking, none of us have been subjugated successfully by anyone, unlike you.
    So go ahead, give it a try.

    "Contribute to the development and the aims of your community;"

    Oh please. Almost every single industry and business at the heart of this provinces economic centre is owned and operated by anglophones and allophones. Even the Habs. We are the reason you have jobs.

    "If you are insisting to live in Quebec and impose yourself as an Anglophone against their culture, their language, their land, their system,"

    I don't seek to impose myself on anyone. I don't deny you the right to speak French or to exist as you wish. What I do seek is an equitable society of full bilingualism and choice without legal restrictions and petty tongue troopers. I want my rights as a Canadian, and until you cecede from this country, I have every right and responsibility to seek them out and fight for them.

    "with education and multilingual."

    I hold two degrees, speak three languages and employ 73 people in Montreal, many of them Francophones. How about you douchebag?
    What do you contribute to your society other than your racism and your hate?

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  50. I have more than you. I speak 4 languages excluding French.I used to see more people every hour than you employ in your entire life.

    Quebec deserves better people, positive people but first and foremost people with a respectable behaviour to French, as Quebec is and will remain French.

    You cannot tell me why you refuse to speak French ?
    What is the real reason, une boutade ?

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  51. "...Almost every single industry and business at the heart of this provinces economic centre is owned and operated by anglophones and allophones."

    Auriez-vous ici des avantages financiers que vous n'auriez pas ailleurs?Je suppose que oui.Avec cette mentalité de vieux colonisateur,il n'est pas surprenant que notre langue est celle de l'inférieur.Même avec 1,000 employés,il serait tout de même un trou de cul.En passant,les canadians n'ont plus aucun droit chez-nous a part celui de critiquer.

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  52. @anon 5:52

    Quebec needs less parasites, sucking the taxes out of the Anglo and allos in Quebec and rest of Canada to pay for pur laine chauvanism and welfare. Maybe we need to get our piece of Quebec through partition so that we can get respect for the money we invested in Montreal and Quebecs development.

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  53. @anon 7:10

    we deserve even more rights because we pay taxes that "trou de cul" parasite pur lainers leech off.

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  54. Vous ne répondez jamais à ma question. Une dernière fois : pourquoi refusez-vous de parler français au Québec ?


    Enfin, je suis un professionnel fier de son français, et je suis né au Québec. J'ai prodigué l'enseignement du français et de la littérature française à des milliers d'étudiants et de professionnels dans plusieurs Universités.

    Soyez assuré que les Québécois francophones ont tous les droits du monde à se sentir Rois et Maîtres chez eux.

    Malheureusement la minorité anglophone qui est particulièrement choyée au Québec est beaucoup trop ingrate. Cela ne se voit pas en Europe. Nous méritons mieux que des crachats et des grossièretés, des insultes et des attaques racistes.

    Nous ne voulons que protéger notre race et nous n'avons pas à nous en excuser. Que Dieu nous vienne en aide car nous ne méritons pas le sort cruel de co-habiter avec des êtres aussi méprisables que vous. Nos enfants sont en danger devant une telle dégradation auprès du peuple Québécois.

    J'implore Dieu qu'il nous vienne en aide.

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  55. "I have more than you. I speak 4 languages excluding French"

    Congratulations. Nowhere then on this route of education and growth did you stumble upon the concepts of equality, political representation for all citizens in a democracy, and that coercive and repressive means are the hallmarks of what we traditionally fight against, not for?

    "You cannot tell me why you refuse to speak French ?"

    I should rephrase this statement. I will speak French with my friends and in social circles. I will just not acquiesce in supporting a system whose closest equivalent I can only find in Turkey. I don't begrudge you the right to speak French. I expect the same courtesy in return if I chose to live in English. The argument of you can move, is an irrelevancy to me. I was born here and it is my home as much as it is yours.
    If you want Quebec to remain unilingually French then I suggest yoou (collectively), gather the intestinal fortitude and separate from Canada. Until then, I will be here and I will struggle for the rights guaranteed to me by this country and for equality.

    You talk about the Quebecois past as a source of entitlement. Then in my case, I'm the descendant of two seperate genocides. I recognize Quebecois nationalism for what it really is and I will never abide by Bill 101 for the rest of my life.

    "Auriez-vous ici des avantages financiers que vous n'auriez pas ailleurs"

    I guessed you missed the memo about how Quebec is one of the highest tax zones in north America. Someone's going to have to pay for the distinct society since it has one of the largest percentages of individuals who rely on social welfare.

    And speaking of colonialism, what do you think the Francophone presence represents in Quebec?

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  56. "J'implore Dieu qu'il nous vienne en aide"

    LOL you have a sick brain

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  57. Your square flag has a whole in it. Quebec is out in the air punk. Jason you are filled with a lot of empty neurons. Canadians like you should be put to forced labour.

    Vous ne faites pas de sens, vous avez le ventre plein et la tête vide jeune homme.Les gens du Québec peuvent se passer de vies inutiles comme la vôtre.

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  58. "Your square flag has a whole in it. Quebec is out in the air punk. Jason you are filled with a lot of empty neurons. Canadians like you should be put to forced labour.

    Vous ne faites pas de sens, vous avez le ventre plein et la tête vide jeune homme.Les gens du Québec peuvent se passer de vies inutiles comme la vôtre."

    Lol you assume all of that based on me having written "you have a sick brain"? And my square flag has a whole? Do you mean "hole"? And if so, what f*****g hole? Quebec is out in the air?

    Lol you have a sick brain

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  59. So many ideas in this blog. But mostly illegal and racist.

    Why do anglos feel so fucked up about Québec, it is what it is. When I go to say, Mexico, I don't expect much more than Mexico... so i learned spanish and enjoy it.

    Quebec isn't part of Canada anyways, never signed the 1982 Constitution. So... do you guys agree that if one doesn't sign, then one is forced into a system one doesn't agree with?

    That means it is illegal for Canada to tax Québec and also for Québec to accept Canada money.

    1- Question..
    To Canadian sovereingtists, what would you do if Québec just decided to declare itself independent? It already is anyways.

    2-
    What if USA just annexed Canada to itself, and made Canada a state? For fun and power. Are you sovereigntists enough to resist?

    ----
    Reminds me of the soviet union; everybody went independent and Canada was one of the first to support that, for cash probably and sell weapons.

    Walking out is an option, since there are no legal ties, Quebec is still here waisting time and money!

    Can I speak French in Alberta or Ontario and expect to be understood? I assume not (I tried), then I can't even be understood in my mother tongue in the country i'm supposed to live in and be proud of? Weird.

    Those are the ideas i think about. I've also been insulted many times in Quebec for being francophone.
    Very weird.

    I think Canada is not sustainable, it's way too big.
    It's like China or USA

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  60. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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