Thursday, January 6, 2011

Even Separatists Agree. Montreal is English!

After yesterday's post, which seemed to push a particularly angry button among readers, let's do something a little on the humorous side today.

But before I continue,  I want to congratulate those readers who enriched the debate with a plethora of thoughtful comments yesterday. I do believe it was the best batch of comments ever written on this blog and no, it had nothing to do with the fact that 'ALLCAPS' was silent!!

Unfortunately I deleted an important comment from 'Appartchick' by accident. Too bad, it was excellent. How about a re-post?

Onward!
I read with amusement a post by Quebec City blowhard Rejean Labrie on vigile.net who wrote a pathetic lament about what he perceives as the sad reality of English in Montreal. He reluctantly admits that Montreal is what it always was, a bilingual city, something he abhors.
Read;
"Come and  settle in Montreal where you can live exclusively in English"
"Venez vous établir à Montréal, où l’on peut vivre exclusivement en anglais"

Perhaps the language militants are finally accepting reality.

He makes the point that immigrants can easily assimilate into the English cultural community without any difficulty and that they can successfully function without French.
While it isn't easy for anyone to function without French in Quebec, his point about many immigrants adopting the English culture is quite valid and while for him it represents a sad reality, I'm reminded of the old adage- 'One man's meat is another man's poison.'
"...you can never count on these people to join the nationalist cause that drives us, this is a very unfortunate fact, but a fact. And it's not because we haven't reached out to them generously. No, they have no intention of joining the majority culture of Quebec, it's just that there's no incentive for them to do so. In one word or a thousand, they couldn't care less about preserving our culture."

As for our English community, which has lost 300,000 members through emigration over the last forty years, survival is based in renewal. It's a fact that immigrants have rallied to help save the English community. As a grateful anglophone, I welcome them to our ranks!

As for Mr. Labrie, I'm sure he was rubbing his hands in glee, all those years, watching the anglos leave his beloved Quebec, purifying the population as they left.  

The pain that he manifests so clearly in his post, over those cursed immigrants that ruined his separatist plans, can only bring a smile to my face and perhaps to yours.....

But enough of that, I said humorous!.....

Mr. Labrie added a photo collage of store signs showing an arrogant use of English to the exclusion of French.
Yup, never mind bilingual, these signs showed an utter contempt for Bill 101 in that nary a word of French was to be found.




But there's something wrong!

The longer I looked at the pictures, the more I believe them to be fraudulent.

Can you play detective and spot the giveaways?

Here's some 'think music' to help you concentrate, click on the arrow and study the pictures. Then scroll down to compare thoughts!



spoiler alert.....scroll down..
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  • The bottom right hand photo is what got me started. It has a date of 2004, indicating that these photos are seven years old! Who uses seven year old pictures to prove a point about today?
  • It also seems that all the photos seven years old, too. Why? Because two of the signs have a 473-XXXX telephone number, indicating that they were both taken in the same neighbourhood. Then there is no area code in front of the telephone number. Today we use 10 digit dialling in Quebec, so these pictures are were probably snapped at the same time and place as the photo with the 2004 date.
  • The "473=XXXX numbers would put the business' in the francophone dominated town of St. Eustache, Quebec, where trust me, no business would dare post in English exclusively.
  •  In Quebec, even in English the word is spelled "CENTRE" when referring to a place (Shopping centre) and "CENTER" when referring to the middle of something (like a target.) The use of "Center" to denote a place is used in the USA and in the Maritime provinces in Canada.
  • The signage is just too amateurish or corny to come from Montreal. 
In fact none of these pictures were taken in Montreal!

At little research shows that most or all the photos were all taken in Grand Falls, New Brunswick.

The giveaway was the phone number and business name, "473-4644 +Speedy Auto Glass" which is easily be traced back to Grand Falls via a simple Google search. Some of the businesses seem to be closed, but at least two others also trace back to Grand Falls!

Mr. Labrie you are so BUSTED!!!

91 comments:

  1. Ha ha ha..

    Great post and great detective work on the signage. Unbelievable that he would utilize examples from another province to re-inforce his rather weak argument. The local press should pick up on this to illustrate how desperate the language purists are in Quebec. On another note, I am currently away on vacation and ran into a group of Quebecois who were making complete asses of themselves at a local bar on the Mayan Rivieria near Peurto Morales. God they were so loud and obnoxious that the waiter was visibily disgusted. Insisted on everything in French while the waiter was having enough problems in english. I bet they didn't leave a tip either....:):) Maybe they were unilingual francos but I doubt it as I heard them talk with some anglos outside of the bar.

    ReplyDelete
  2. To dishonestly use pictures taken outside of Quebec to illustrate Quebec's condition is really nothing new. I have the proof from Vigile in 2009:

    http://www.vigile.net/Le-bilinguisme-institutionnel,23363

    That article was taken from La Presse:

    http://www.cyberpresse.ca/opinions/200911/10/01-920328-le-bilinguisme-institutionnel-menace-le-francais-au-quebec.php

    The article is talking about the threat of institutional bilinualism against French IN QUEBEC. And there is a picture of a bilingual road sign. The problem is, that road sign is NOT located in Quebec. That is the road sign on Highway 401 in Ontario near the Thousand Island Bridge.

    I sent a letter to La Presse about this matter, but as always, just total silence from them.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Good work on exposing those images.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Nice post exposing once again the lying seppie weasels for what they are, desperate losers.

    Anyone who lives in Montreal and has traveled Quebec knows Montreal is a separate reality. Montreal is not English, far from it, but this is where most Anglos and Allos live. Montreal is where you hear many other languages spoken other than French. Montreal is a complex mix of cultures that cannot be easily manipulated to rally behind the nationalist cause. I don’t think the seppies understand Montreal or how to rouse the population to conform to their narrow vision of Quebec. I for one would love to see the seppies realize that Montreal will always be their undoing and throw in the towel and back off. I would also love to see Montreal develop a concrete plan to separate from Quebec if/when Quebec separates from Canada. If Montreal asserted its independence from ‘pure lain’ Quebec based on its unique character, we could all stop worrying about the next referendum and focus on restoring and repairing Montreal. Decades of linguistic tension and political uncertainty have retarded Montreal’s potential.

    ReplyDelete
  5. "I would also love to see Montreal develop a concrete plan to separate from Quebec if/when Quebec separates from Canada. If Montreal asserted its independence from ‘pure lain’ Quebec based on its unique character, we could all stop worrying about the next referendum and focus on restoring and repairing Montreal. Decades of linguistic tension and political uncertainty have retarded Montreal’s potential. "

    Couldn't agree more. But why not do this now? Why wait for Quebec to move forward with yet another referendum and another inevitable, economic crash in the city that will follow this event?
    I would hope that we can organize ourselves now and vote our way to greener pastures as part of Ontario. At the very least, the threat of separation will cut both ways.
    Having the freedom to speak your language without fear of your government is an essential right. It's what revolutions are made of.
    Our lives have been circumscribed for almost forty years now and we've been treated like unwanted cattle by both Quebec and the ROC.
    To top it all off, we are continuously threatened with the possibility of violence, either by the FLQ or the modern day versions of it that find expression in armed militias that promise to secure the cultural integrity of Francophone Quebec against all others. We are the others!
    By ballot or barricade, it's time for a not so quiet revolution.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Getting more relevant as time goes on. Time for partition.

      Delete
  6. Here’s my attempt at a rewrite

    It’s deplorable how the intellectually dishonest argument about strengthening the precarious state of French in this province by taking a hard line against the English language does not amount to bigotry, or even hate.

    I’m sure many native francophones in this province – most of the informed ones, and even those who genuinely believe that French is in serious danger – would be appalled at the idea of fining merchants for addressing customers in English, much less create an administrative tribunal dedicated solely to prosecuting such a pathetic “infraction”.


    > Even Mario Dupont, conservative in every aspect, every aspect except language, that is, didn't think it appropriate or necessary to call him out. Shame!

    I haven’t seen the clip in its entire context, but from Pelletier’s 17-second tirade (soliloquy?) reproduced here, it’s quite clear that Mario Dumont is visibly annoyed by Pelletier’s idea. The subtitles regretfully don’t account for Dumont’s attempts of at least three rebuttals, even though he fails to get a thorough comment in edgewise. For the benefit of all your readers (and especially those who don’t understand French), I should point out that Dumont *does* attempt to call Pelletier out on it. At least twice, he attempts to cut Pelletier’s crescendo short by saying “ben voyons donc” (“come on, now”), and if you review the clip and listen carefully through the crosstalk, you can hear Mario say “moi, je ne voudrais pas judiciariser ça” (“I for one wouldn’t want to judiciarize (i.e. legally formalize/codify that”). Even a crypto-nationalist “autonomist” like Mario Dumont who never really managed to lock into a coherent political frequency that would turn into sustainable electoral manna for him knows how ludicrous Pelletier’s proposal is. I’m glad he calls him out. And I think this fact shouldn’t be omitted from your blog.

    > You want it to be someone else's problem. You want someone else to make the effort. You want Anglos to shut up, for Ethnics to go to French Cegeps, for French people to sending their kids to les écoles passerelles […] The intense individualism of Quebec society means that the language issue is someone else's problem.

    Although we likely have differing opinions in the overall debate on abortion, I think this comment from Suzanne yesterday was spot on. While I am indeed francophone, significant parts of my family tree are also anglophone and allophone, so I have had the privilege of growing up living and seeing the experiences from all three vantage points. I think that the nationalists’ current “francisation” strategy heaps an undue burden and responsibility onto newcomers to identify with and be loyal to an ideology that is as foreign to them as our timezone is. After first barring immigrants from sending their children to French school, to then allowing them, to then stripping virtually all further newcomers of any choice in the matter, the nationalists have sought to make “New Quebecers” their hostages and demographic proxies in a war that doesn’t need to be, and to fight a war that isn’t the newcomers’ war to fight.

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  7. > Montreal is a complex mix of cultures that cannot be easily manipulated to rally behind the nationalist cause. I don’t think the seppies understand Montreal or how to rouse the population to conform to their narrow vision of Quebec.

    Sadly, in the nationalists’ desperate bid to forge an identity that will “finally” obliterate our historical enemy from the map of Québec (note the accent aigu and pronounce accordingly), we have failed to showcase what I think are (and continue to truly be) the our national character’s most beautiful traits, most notably, our hardiness in the face of real adversity, our strong sense of community, and, yes, our humility. This is where I disagree with the following comment:


    > I for one would love to see the seppies realize that Montreal will always be their undoing and throw in the towel and back off. I would also love to see Montreal develop a concrete plan to separate from Quebec if/when Quebec separates from Canada.

    This sounds far too revenge-motivated, much like the separatists who think of “sovereignty” as some kind of second Quebecois manifest destiny. I would rather that they realize the wholesale folly of their project, and that we would all benefit from as few complications as possible. The fact that Canada’s dysfunctionality hasn’t caused it to collapse yet might just mean something…


    > If Montreal asserted its independence from ‘pure lain’ Quebec based on its unique character, we could all stop worrying about the next referendum and focus on restoring and repairing Montreal.

    An interesting thought, although not one that I can honestly endorse, both as a francophone, but especially as a staunch federalist.

    I often think of Montreal as being in a lot of ways different from the rest of Quebec. I never really thought it worthwhile to agitate and militate in an attempt to have our metropolitan area’s status as a “distinct society” enshrined into some equally ludicrous Quebec constitutional framework. We know we have a unique character. Proof is that quite a few disloyal citizens of this province wish us ill, just as many malicious and disloyal citizens of Canada genuinely wish our province ill because of what makes us unique. I still think of partition as a tragic last resort that bears the hallmark of a society that really can’t make it work.


    > Decades of linguistic tension and political uncertainty have retarded Montreal’s potential.

    I agree, and for all the French-Canadian emancipation that’s occurred in the last half-century, I think we have yet to see it pay any purely economic dividends. But in many a separatist’s (and even broad nationalist’s) mind, that isn’t the point. The unfortunate thing is that there are fewer separatists then federalists, but there are still likely more nationalists than internationalists here. Restoring pride in our Frenchness for many is of greater value and significance than being part of something bigger, whose lingua franca, at least for the time being, is still English-speaking.

    Immigrants might assimilate willingly into one language or another if given a free choice, but many realize that they’re here primarily because of opportunity (my non-French, non-English immigrant ancestors got wise to this the day they got here). It’s comforting to move in the same circles as your native immigrant clique, but sooner or later most people realize that they’ll do better if they expand their options (or at least keep them open). So while they’re picking up one language, many want to, can, and do pick up the other.


    > To top it all off, we are continuously threatened with the possibility of violence, either by the FLQ or the modern day versions of it that find expression in armed militias that promise to secure the cultural integrity of Francophone Quebec against all others. We are the others! By ballot or barricade, it's time for a not so quiet revolution.

    Careful now. We’re Montreal. Not Beirut.

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  8. «I would also love to see Montreal develop a concrete plan to separate from Quebec if/when Quebec separates from Canada.»

    Vous pouvez continuer à rêver, mais pour de nombreuses raisons aucune partie de territoire ne se séparera du Québec. Ce qui va se produire par contre lorsque le Québec déclarera son indépendance du "Canada", c'est qu'il y aura des négociations à propos des actifs et du passif.

    Parmi les actifs, il y a des symboles nationaux comme les termes Canada et Canadien (Canadian), la feuille d'érable et l'hymne national Ô Canada. Étant donné que la nation canadienne originale (les Francos) n'a jamais donné son accord à ce qu'une autre nation (les Anglos) s'approprie ses symboles nationaux, il faudra donc que les Anglos s'en donnent de nouveaux.

    Je suggère comme nom du nouveau pays des Anglos : United Provinces of America (UPA) et North USA. Et comme nom des citoyens : North American. Si vous avez des suggestions, n'hésitez pas.

    P.S. Les termes New Canada et New Canadian sont disqualifiés d'office.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Si le Quebec peut se separer du Canada, Montreal peut separe due Quebec.

      Ca prend seulement la volonté democratique du people.

      Quebec was conquered a long time ago, you have little say in the matter.

      Learn English, and get along in a global world - that is the best option for Quebec.


      Delete
  9. @ Apparatchik

    Your analysis of the conversation between Pelletier and Dumont is better than mine and so I retract my statement that Dumont did not call Pelletier out on his harangue.

    After reviewing the clip, Dumont seemed slightly amused and perhaps egged Pelletier on for the sake of good television.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Mississauga Guy said...

    First of all, as the first respondent wrote, good detective work on those antiquated signs!

    There seems to be resilience on both sides. The immigrants are not falling for being coerced to open their bank accounts with the caisse populaire and shopping at stores marked "On commerce en français".

    The kids go to French schools by day and speak English with their parents, friends, etc. afterward. They also watch English TV and listen to English radio. In the end, these immigrant kids become fluently bilingual and are better prepared for the working world in Quebec.

    While Bill 101 protects those who speak French alone, the simple fact of the matter is bilingual workers are more affluent than unilingual workers and are more valued employees.

    As I wrote in yesterday's thread, the French language will not be usurped if the population WANTS to continue living in French. Since there is an emotional attachment to French any attempt to assimilate the population into English will surely fail as it did in the past.

    Similarly, the minorities will continue to live in their chosen languages at home, either English or French in their communities (seems as if most have chosen English) and use their French where absolutely necessary (especially at work, if able to do so).

    So here we are 1/3 of a century after Bill 101 and a half century after the Quiet Revolution, and despite one hard-boiled government after another making it clear they'd prefer all Quebecers live in French, the effort is all in vain.

    Those who want to live English are doing so no matter what the zealots try to do, and unless they put a language cop in every home at formidable costs, that won't change.

    Perhaps it's now time these increased numbers start to make political waves the way it happened in 1994 with the creation of the Equality Party.

    ReplyDelete
  11. @Jean-Baptiste

    Excellent!Pourquoi pas les "hillbillies"?C'est le nom que donnent les américains a leurs paysans.
    (les culs-terreux du Nord avec l'accent du Wyoming)

    ReplyDelete
  12. "...Perhaps it's now time these increased numbers start to make political waves the way it happened in 1994 with the creation of the Equality Party."

    BlahBlahBlah...Qu'attendez-vous pour agir?Il ne manque que cette allumette pour mettre le feu aux poudres.

    ReplyDelete
  13. > Vous pouvez continuer à rêver, mais pour de nombreuses raisons aucune partie de territoire ne se séparera du Québec. Ce qui va se produire par contre lorsque le Québec déclarera son indépendance du "Canada", c'est qu'il y aura des négociations à propos des actifs et du passif.

    C’est un discours que je connais bien et que je trouve myope, sous plusieurs aspects.

    Je suis toujours ébahi par ceux qui prétendent sérieusement qu’un nouveau pays qui s’appellerait « Québec » et qui d’ores et déjà compterait à peu près 50% (plus ou moins environ 10%) de « citoyens » qui s’opposent à son indépendance même serait tout à coup transformé en un état-nation formé d’un ensemble à fort majorité (80% ? 90% ?) d’indépendantistes et de nationalistes pleins de verve et d’enthousiasme.

    À moins d’avoir comme but officieux de vouloir faire des 3,5 millions de fédéralistes qui habitent le Québec une sorte de nouveaux pieds-noirs dans notre propre nation et de nous expulser vers ce que vous appellerez certainement avec dédain et sarcasme notre « mère-patrie », je vois difficilement comment cette prétention puisse être pratico-pratique, compte tenu du fait que le Québec serait toujours entouré du même pays duquel il se serait séparé.

    Tu parles d’actif et de passif, sans apprécier qu’il y a des biens tant meubles qu’immeubles à discuter.

    L’immeuble, c’est le territoire québécois actuel dont tu prétends les frontières ne sauraient être réajustées afin qu’elles rendent le plus grand nombre de gens heureuses. Un exode mobilier, par contre, serait-il vraiment plus facile à avaler ? Qu’en adviendra-t-il du Québec une fois partis ces fédéralistes effrontés et déloyaux, leurs connaissances pourries et bourgeoises, ainsi que leur avoirs, tous accumulés sur le dos des bonnes gens de « chez nous » ? Et s’ils ne s’en vont pas, pire encore. Ça fait une quarantaine d’années que ce projet d’indépendance mort-né continue à avoir des séquelles néfastes sur notre province et notre pays. Qui plus est, le Québec dépend d’une manne fédérale supérieure à ce qu’on verse aux maudits centralisateurs.


    > Parmi les actifs, il y a des symboles nationaux comme les termes Canada et Canadien (Canadian), la feuille d'érable et l'hymne national Ô Canada. Étant donné que la nation canadienne originale (les Francos) n'a jamais donné son accord à ce qu'une autre nation (les Anglos) s'approprie ses symboles nationaux, il faudra donc que les Anglos s'en donnent de nouveaux.

    Me semble qu’on peut se les « réapproprier » à partir d’hier. Encore un autre discours qui laisse entrevoir des motivations revanchardes. Même à ça, en tant que puriste, je ne vois absolument rien dans les Articles de Capitulation ni dans le Traité de Paris, conclue d’ailleurs entre « notre » « nation originale » et une « autre » nation, que l’on pourrait utiliser pour légitimement appuyer une telle prétention. Encore plus ironiquement, il y a aussi la notion de droits acquis, fort bien reconnue en droit civil québécois, qui pourrait nous être facilement opposée. Attention… le jugement (même celui qui viendrait de la Seule Sainte Cour Suprême du Peuple Québécois) pourrait bien nous être très défavorable.

    > Je suggère comme nom du nouveau pays des Anglos : United Provinces of America (UPA) et North USA. Et comme nom des citoyens : North American. Si vous avez des suggestions, n'hésitez pas.
    > P.S. Les termes New Canada et New Canadian sont disqualifiés d'office.

    Encore un autre argument tout à fait loufoque, car un précédent de double-utilisation simultanée et contemporaine existe déjà avec le nom « Congo ».

    Je te propose une visite chez www.google.com, ou même www.google.ca/fr ou même www.google.fr.


    SHEESH.

    ReplyDelete
  14. "Excellent!Pourquoi pas les "hillbillies"?"

    'Hillbilly' is the most accurate English translation for 'Quebecois.'

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  15. "This sounds far too revenge-motivated,"

    The restoration of our rights as Canadian citizens has nothing to do with revenge. Just the freedom to exist in any of the two official languages without intervention and fines.
    Gaining a voice as an electorate is also not revenge. Anglophone and allophone voters in Quebec are not represented by any of the political parties in the province. When the means of democracy are reserved for one group only then those on the outside have nothing left but to fight.

    "I still think of partition as a tragic last resort that bears the hallmark of a society that really can’t make it work."

    I would say that 40 years of patience are enough. Nothing has changed, and the situation is arguably worse. It has not been the unwillingness of the minority populations of the province to make it all 'work out'. Rather, it's been an institutionalized propaganda that has created the closest thing to 1930s Europe this side of the Atlantic. Enough is enough. No more tongue troopers, no more Dumonts, Parizeaus and the rest of the slime that retain their social status by breeding hate and intolerance.

    "So while they’re picking up one language, many want to, can, and do pick up the other."

    There's always Rosetta Stone. There's no need for a language to be rammed down their throats. Learning a new language should not have so much in common with prison rape.


    "Careful now. We’re Montreal. Not Beirut"

    Montreal has had its fair share of racially motivated bombings. More than any other Canadian city, I would wager. And this is as close as I want to get to Beirut:
    http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110104/mtl_militia_110104/20110104/?hub=MontrealHom

    It's time for Montreal and the surrounding areas to wave the one finger salute to this province. If not, we don't deserve to have any rights whatsoever.

    ReplyDelete
  16. "Parmi les actifs, il y a des symboles nationaux comme les termes Canada et Canadien (Canadian), la feuille d'érable et l'hymne national Ô Canada. Étant donné que la nation canadienne originale (les Francos) n'a jamais donné son accord à ce qu'une autre nation (les Anglos) s'approprie ses symboles nationaux, il faudra donc que les Anglos s'en donnent de nouveaux.

    The original Canadian nation consisted of the aboriginal peoples - not the French. The name "Canada" comes from the word meaning "village" or "settlement" in the Iroquoian language. The name "Quebec" comes from the Algonquin word meaning "where the river narrows." Both of these names were appropriated by the French without the permission of the aboriginal peoples. Francophones should also be obliged to adopt new names to refer to their region and their nationality.

    "Je suggère comme nom du nouveau pays des Anglos : United Provinces of America (UPA) et North USA. Et comme nom des citoyens : North American."

    From now on, Francophones can call their homeland the: Welfare State of America, or North Haiti. And they can refer to their citizens as poutiniers or grenouillesnordiques.

    ReplyDelete
  17. @Anonymous 3 :06 PM :

    I can completely understand where your arguments are coming from. At the same time, how do you propose to have those (fundamentally good, in my opinion) arguments gain any traction among francophone nationalists? The nationalists have realized that this is a demographics war, and even in Montreal, your ideas will have to come up against and overcome a numerically large (possibly equal or greater) opponent.

    How do you propose francophone Quebec society discard its Plateau Clique, the very essence of which remains well ensconced in the belly of the federalist beast also known as Montreal? The revolving carrousel of our opportunistic, nationalist, and self-proclaimed cultural/political intelligentsia is based in the very place it constantly bemoans doesn’t resemble it enough. How do you change peoples’ views without the horrors of population transfer or worse?
    > There's no need for a language to be rammed down their throats. Learning a new language should not have so much in common with prison rape.
    My ancestors weren’t raped into becoming multilingual, and neither was I. If I immigrated to Montreal this morning, I’d be grateful for the opportunity to pick up two important world languages.
    > It's time for Montreal and the surrounding areas to wave the one finger salute to this province. If not, we don't deserve to have any rights whatsoever.
    True. This also sounds similar to the same (very understandable) motivations that brought about the Quiet Revolution. A large silent majority was being simultaneously exploited by its own “leaders” who got into bed with the powerful conquering minority. Although the majority francophone Quebecers’ overall standard of living was raised by the end of it, and we were finally in control in most downtown Montreal boardrooms, it also give birth to a rich, sustainable, fear-based industry centered on the very toxic identity politics and brainwashing that it purported to lift us out of. Plus ça change…

    The core fear is survival based. The peripheral one is cosmetic and based on borders, jurisdiction, language, and flag.

    The specter of Anglophone assimilation has haunted us for the better part of 250 years. You can try arguing that this has stymied further maturity, growth, and integration, but until you can convince a francophone that openness to bilingualism in Quebec is necessary for his people’s overall survival (and isn’t the recipe for his people’s steady demographic erosion), I doubt you’ll get very far.

    And then there are those sh*t-disturbing f*cktards who are just itching for a fight so that, regardless of how true or false it really is, they can turn have “evidence” to point at and show the masses indisputable evidence that *this* is the true face of the anglo or federalist monster.

    The following taunt speaks volumes:

    > Qu'attendez-vous pour agir?Il ne manque que cette allumette pour mettre le feu aux poudres.

    C'est vraiment triste de constater à quel point votre mouvement est propulsé par la peur et la provocation que vous avez besoin de nous pour que vous-mêmes puissiez gagner…

    Pathétique.

    ReplyDelete
  18. "It's time for Montreal and the surrounding areas to wave the one finger salute to this province. If not, we don't deserve to have any rights whatsoever"

    Just take 401 to better life...good ridance my friend!You don't deserve any rights here.

    ReplyDelete
  19. > Just take 401 to better life...good ridance my friend!You don't deserve any rights here.

    Get back to France. Your people don't deserve any rights here. They were abandoned in 1760.

    (ça fait-tu assez mal? C'est en plein ce que je pensais... un débat complètement inutile...)

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  20. 'Just take 401 to better life...good ridance my friend!You don't deserve any rights here.'

    Thanks for your revealing comment ALLCAPS. Represent dude, represent. Are you feeling a little impotent and cranky today?

    We don't deserve rights in Quebec? Why? Because our mother tongue is English? What do we have to do to be accepted, cut out our tongues? Seppies like you won't be happy until every English speaking person leaves, or relinquishes their history, identity, and language and kowtows to the bigoted, fearful Francophone majority and nationalist parties who treat us with suspicion and disdain? Nuts to you, you wanna be despot.

    This is exactly the type of intolerant, dismissive, hateful rhetoric Anglos and Allos face everyday in Quebec. This is the type of response we get when we dare to express our dissatisfaction (in English or French) with the xenophobic status quo in Quebec. And you wonder why more and more of us are angry and ready for a fight.

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  21. "...And you wonder why more and more of us are angry and ready for a fight..."

    Bienvenu dans notre club,ça fait 400 ans qu'on "fight" et croyez-moi nous sommes bien entraînés.

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  22. Bienvenu dans notre club,ça fait 400 ans qu'on "fight" et croyez-moi nous sommes bien entraînés.

    Feeling that seppie belligerence again. It's time for you to take the red pill. We defeated you once before, and we can do it again if you like. Easy to understand, no?

    ReplyDelete
  23. "Bienvenu dans notre club,ça fait 400 ans qu'on "fight" et croyez-moi nous sommes bien entraînés."

    Quebec has its racist, discriminatory language laws because all Francophones had to do was vote on pieces of paper for a fascist party like the Parti Quebecois.

    If it ever becomes a real, physical fight, the Quebecois will just run and hide in the woods like they did in both world wars.

    ReplyDelete
  24. «you won't be happy until every English speaking person leaves»

    Tu te trompes, InFlames. Il y a dans la grande région de Montréal environ 50 000 Américains qui y résident. Lorsqu'un peuple a la chance d'avoir sur sa terre nationale des ressortissants d'une aussi grande qualité, il fait tout en son pouvoir pour faire en sorte qu'ils se sentent comme chez eux et veuillent rester.

    ReplyDelete
  25. I never understood this argument that Quebec is allowed to separate from Canada but Montreal is not allowed to separate from Quebec. Why? Do you have legal backing to explain this Francopholie? That rarely matters to the likes of you. If you had thought it through you would know that separation would be the worst thing ever for Quebec.

    Don't worry. The plateau can separate from Montreal!

    ReplyDelete
  26. "> Just take 401 to better life...good ridance my friend!You don't deserve any rights here. "

    Well even when we take the 401, the pur laine chauvanist parasites still take our taxpayer money. Instead I rather flush bill 101. Not only do the parasites leech off Rest of Canadas money, they leech off anglo and allo taxes in Quebec itself. I wish their were statistics of how much anglo and allo quebecers pay in taxes versus their share of the population.

    ReplyDelete
  27. "Just take 401 to better life...good ridance my friend!You don't deserve any rights here. "

    Indeed that is precisely what all of us *WILL* do, and live without the likes of you bigoted, racist Joule-speaking hillbillies to repress us of our rights and freedoms. Any place in North America, and I do mean ANY place, is leaps and bounds a better place to live and enjoy life than the cesspool you've created in Quebec since 1976.

    We don't deserve any rights here, huh? Well guess what, once we're all gone evacuating this cesspool you've created, we're kicking YOU out of Canada. Where you won't deserve ANYTHING AT ALL. No transfer payments, no welfare handouts, no special treatment. You will live in rotting wooden shacks smoking your cigarettes and living in poverty, just like a Haiti of the North.

    Canada will shine and prosper without the likes of the Quebecois and ugly black sheep province of Quebec. We will abolish forced bilingualism and function in the language of English which the entire planet uses (excluding the backwards dysfunctional backwater of Quebec). So yes...we're headed down the 401. You're headed towards poverty and doom. No one will come to your rescue either. Have fun...!

    ReplyDelete
  28. http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110106/mtl_puppies_110106/20110106/?hub=MontrealHome

    This is the root of ALL the problems with Quebec. As Gandhi said, "You can judge a nation by how it treats its animals"

    Quebec is a sick, disgusting, twisted sub-human culture which abuses animals. No wonder they pass racist hate laws against minorities and so corrupt. This my friends, is the true Quebecois.

    Damn Quebec and its so-called distinct people and culture, DAMN IT TO HELL.

    ReplyDelete
  29. "...we're kicking YOU out of Canada..."

    Not so fast dude,we need some extra money to finish the job.

    ReplyDelete
  30. "...Canada will shine and prosper without the likes of the Quebecois and ugly black sheep province of Quebec."

    Please,don't drink and write.

    ReplyDelete
  31. @Editor:

    Are there any opposing comments/points of view (separatist or otherwise) that you can post whose fundamental purpose is to appeal to one's thoughts and not begin the catfight degeneracy we're witnessing here.

    E-mudslinging can be entertaining, but it doesn't help us give proper vent to each other's often legitimate fears in a conciliatory forum the way a blog ought to. I have to believe you have some nationalist commenters whose postings are intellectually provocative and not verbally so.

    As much as I might have disagreed with him deeply, I've got to believe that there's one René Lévesque for every hundred Mario Beaulieus...

    ReplyDelete
  32. "Just take 401 to better life.."

    I don't think so pal. I'm an Ethnic Fucker and I'm here to infect your gene pool.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Mississauga Guy to Apparatchik...

    Sorry pal, the one and only René Lévesque passed away over 23 years ago. Besides, the callousness of the PLQ and the lack of admonishment by the French media regarding the Supreme Court reaction to Bill 104 and the PLQ's solution thereto show support on the part of Francophones that it is OK to force a family to split to Delaware for the sake of one child to obtain an English language education.

    Despite two articles in Bill 101 that consider children with learning challenges and a humanitarian clause to deal with such rare circumstances, the PLQ did not see fit to help this vulnerable child.

    Premier John James "Goldilocks" Charest didn't as much as lift a finger to intervene and help a vulnerable child. Call me naïve, but I always felt in a democratic society, governments are supposed to help the most vulnerable members of society, and this was not a monetary demand!

    Sorry, Apparatchik, but I cannot feel anything less than contempt for the premier, his minions, especially those Anglophone MNAs serving predominantly minority (English, really) consitituencies who did not oppose the PLQ's brutal, cruel and merciless decision to roll time back 35 years when appointed lowly bureaucrats had the power vested in them to play God!

    Charest's reaction satisfied at least one of two societal demands. The less likely one was to appease the most ardent and zealous nationalists who supposedly make up a minority of Francophone Quebecers. The more likely of the two was because the majority of Francophones want it this way. It can also be said it's both demands because the ardent nationalists may have egged on the general Francophone population and set them off to accept a harder line on this policy.

    Personally, I choose the second of the two, and this is why I think it's high time a party the serves the English speakers of Canada primarily is necessary to push back if not suppress the ingratitude Quebecers show the rest of Canada, the real Canada!

    I'm not stating the purpose of this party would be to separate Quebec from Canada, but if it's a powder keg and sets off another unity debate, so be it. It will prove that while the ebb in the unity debate that has taken place for sometime, the unity elephant is still in the room, so we have to invite it to stay (and eternally water it and shovel away its dung), coax it outside the room or shoot the damn thing and transport the remains out of the room. You choose!

    I on the one hand don't necessarily want Quebec to separate, but if they can't be appeased, and continue to whine and thumb their noses at the Real Canada, then they're free to leave, take their part of the debt, good luck (and boy will they need it) and good riddance.

    ReplyDelete
  34. "...governments are supposed to help the most vulnerable members of society..."

    Vulnerable!!???Vivez-vous dans un monde parrallèle ou quoi?Cette situation est aussi stupide que quelqu'un qui s'entête a manger du Grecque dans le quartier Chinois en Grèce (métaphore/μεταφορά).Mississauga,êtes-vous sous influence de drogues quelconques?

    ReplyDelete
  35. Anon 9:19, How about living in an english speaking area of Quebec, that is a province of Canada which has a majority english speaking population and being forced to go to a french school. There is no comparison, you pur laine moron. Probably overdosed on poutine.

    ReplyDelete
  36. "...which has a majority english speaking population and being forced to go to a french school..."

    Tout a fait normal idiot,c'est la langue officielle du Québec...Arrive en ville connard!
    T'es pas content?Prend la 401 vers l'Ouest.

    ReplyDelete
  37. "Tout a fait normal idiot,c'est la langue officielle du Québec"

    Well, the problem is that Quebekkk is a part of Canada, a country that has two official languages. Since you did not succeed at separation twice before, then you don't really have the right to a unilingual status in the province, or anywhere else on this continent for that matter.
    I have nothing but defiance for 101 and all its supporters. Do you think you can MAKE us comply once we give you all the finger?
    I don't think so. I haven't spoken or written a French word in more than two years. I also have not served any of my customers in French for an equally long time. I have become a reflection of your society and respond to linguistic pressure with an equal amount of threat and irreverence as is presented to me. In that spirit, you and all of French Quebec can go fuck yourselves until I feel like I'm accorded equal status in this province. I hope to share the experience of being treated as a second class citizen with every single Francophone who doesn't make the effort to speak to me in my language.

    I think it might even be time for the establishment of a militia whose purpose is to protect the integrity of Canadian territory within the province, and act as a counterweight to the extremism that surrounds all ethnic minorities in Qubekistan.

    ReplyDelete
  38. anon 4:01 PM,

    Actually we plan to extend the 401 all the way to the end of Montreal Island, by Montreal Island joining ontario. We are half way there by taking away the Pur Laine majority of Montreal island. Next its laval and vaudruail I for one want to find a way to send as many english and non-French speakers to Quebec as possible. Especially those on social assistance. Maybe all those additional financial loads would even eat up most of Quebec equalization. Its a win win for the other provinces of Canada, if they sent most of their social assistance users to Quebec.

    By the way English is an offical language of Quebec as well. One day it will retake its proper place.

    Despite all the pur laine chauvanists have tried there is still a large English speaking community in Quebec.

    ReplyDelete
  39. "...Actually we plan to extend the 401 all the way to the end of Montreal Island..."

    "Apparatchik said...
    Okay. And how would that work constitutionally?

    A boundary change requires an okay from the legislature of each of the provinces affected as well as from Parliament (section 43(a) of that infamous 1982 constitution document talks about borders, 43(b) about modifying bilingualism status). I don't see even a Quebec Liberal government giving a nod to this idea under the present circumstances. But maybe you can succeed in this assignment where I can't.

    Use soft skills and hard skills to solve this problem. Show all your work. Emotional wishlists inconsistent with established Canadian and Quebec legal principles will receive no credit. You have until the next referendum on "sovereignty". Good luck."

    ReplyDelete
  40. "...you and all of French Quebec can go fuck yourselves until I feel like I'm accorded equal status in this province."

    Espérons que vous êtes patient.Vous serez toujours des citoyens de deuxième classe et dans quelques années peut-être de troisième classe.Un petit boycott de votre boutique vous ferait réfléchir d'avantage.Continuez a vous adresser a votre clientéle en globish,cela est très bon pour notre cause.Surtout dites-le a vos amis commerçants.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Attitudes like Anon 6:02 PM is the reason Canada needs to remove Quebec from Confederation and start treating French Quebecers like second class citizens. Cut all transfer payments, put all other provinces before Quebec, exclude Quebec from meetings with provincial premiers etc... Do everything to make the sovereignty movement swell up like a volcano so that Quebec can democratically leave this beautiful country. That is, of course, if Quebec amends its discriminatory treatment of its minorities and adapts itself to Canadian values. If they don't like our values, Quebec knows where the door is. They can have their little KEbekistan, the counsel superieur de la langue francaise can be the mullahs, and the OQLF can be Quebec's intelligence unit.

    If (hopefully) Quebec secedes, Canada should not have any relations with Quebec, be it economic or otherwise. In addition, all federal territory in the former province should be handed back to Canada, and launch a military invasion if Quebec fails to comply with the demands.

    So ya, in other words, FUCK QUEBEC!!

    VIVE LE QUEBEC LIBRE!!

    ReplyDelete
  42. "Continuez a vous adresser a votre clientéle en globish,cela est très bon pour notre cause."

    Yeah, whatevers. Don't care. I will still live as I chose and you and your elected representatives can shove it. I'm a Canadian with an ancestry that has experienced genocide twice. I can't even begin to describe the irrelevancy you and your ilk represent to me. I'm not part of polite English tea time society, nor am I about to tuck my tail between my legs and move. I think I might just make some more brownish, non Catholic babies who speak English. There will soon be more of us than there are of you. Hope you like life in the Beauce, Gaston. But either way pal, you're just going to have to try and make me if you want anything more of me because enough is enough. If it ever comes down to it, I've been to the army. Catch my drift?

    ReplyDelete
  43. Hilarious really

    You hear from the vanquised anglos in Quebec who are being selectivly culled out of the populaton by government sanctioned projects that the vanquished pay for.

    You hear from unrealistic franco idiots on the other size who do not understand what real shape they are in fiscally as they listen to the idols of separatism who feed them BS.

    Facts:

    Quebec is bankrupt as is widely known with a plus 200 billion provincial debt. And still you pay the politicians on indexed pensions such as JJC.

    Founding nation BS. The french in Canada had their ass kicked.

    Canada a bilingual nation: What kind of drugs are you on.

    Bottom line:

    The Quebecois hate the maudit anglos..and...the anglos tolerate the existence of the Quebecois.. and don't really like them all that much as they are for the most part seen as a Province that is a parasite.

    Stupid argument on the partition of Quebec. Of course it would be negotiated. If Canada is divisable so is Quebec. Where would the bankrupt province be without the island. Bonne Chance. (of course could that have anything to do with the anglo presence?)

    The anglos in the ROC ,thanks to blogs such as this..are starting to understand just how bad they have been had by deceitful Quebec. They no longer give a shit if this despotic province remains in the country or not. Strike another referendum and see how much support the OUI side gets. I suspect not a lot as the ROc, as in a bad marriage, wants to move forward and not backward.

    Ask youself one question:

    Where in Canada (other than Quebec) are there laws restricting language and signage. Pretty much sums it up, doesn't it.

    Time for Quebec and Quebecers (or Quebecois if you prefer) to start being accountable for their presence.

    If not.. good riddance...

    This last post (vous serez des citoyens... etc) is likely the most facist thing I have heard on this blog. Completely f'ked up.

    So to you.. go live in your joual gulag...that you have created at the expense of others.

    Quebec is a total and complete failure. economically,socially and morally (highest rate of suicide and unwed mothers in Canada, not too mention the divorce rate)

    @appartchik

    Why waste you rhetoric and intellect on a failing venue...move out and enjoy your life.

    eos

    ReplyDelete
  44. "...I've been to the army. Catch my drift?"

    Portez-vous des dessous féminins en cachette comme votre petiy ami Russell Williams?
    Vous pouvez avoir la quantité d'enfants unilingues anglais que vous voulez,ils seront toujours confrontés a notre environnement...Français et de ce fait isolés et rejetés comme vous l'êtes.

    ReplyDelete
  45. "Vous pouvez avoir la quantité d'enfants unilingues anglais"
    You misunderstand. I'm not unilingual. I speak three languages, among them French.
    Where I live, we try to make your environment affect us as little as possible. Anything past cottage country for Montreal represents nothing but the potential for a gas stop to me.
    I don't feel isolated from my neighbours and the people I see daily. I feel isolated and rejected by a political system that denies me representation, and by a nation that fights for human rights in Afghanistan but can't take the beam out of it's own eye (Quebec). You do not isolate me. You've isolated yourselves from a continent of 300 plus million, and from a world that can communicate in a common language.

    "Portez-vous des dessous féminins en cachette"

    Why, is that what Lepine was wearing?

    ReplyDelete
  46. "...You do not isolate me. You've isolated yourselves from a continent of 300 plus million, and from a world that can communicate in a common language."

    Vous faites erreur,le Québec est la "province" la plus représentée et la plus exportée du canada.Meilleure chance la prochaine fois.

    ReplyDelete
  47. @Anonymous 8:08 PM
    > [...] move out and enjoy your life.

    I’m not sure whether I should interpret your comment as though you were telling me to get a job and move out of my mom’s basement, or if instead I ought to fool myself into thinking I’d be happier in self-exile or as a political refugee elsewhere. I love genuinely living in French AND English; this is what Canada is really about. I love this city and many of the good people in it. Where exactly do you suggest I go?


    > Why waste you rhetoric and intellect on a failing venue...



    You need to think we’re pretty far gone to wonder something like that. Still, I respect the question, and I think I should indulge you with an answer. Parable style.


    Three days before the 1995 referendum, the now-(in)famous Unity Rally took place in downtown Montreal.

    In its wake, and likely in bemused anticipation of the event, separatists had spray painted "CANADIAN GO HOME" on dozens of spots near and not so near Place du Canada, including several other places downtown and in other anglo areas as well. They did this, of course, lest there be any doubt about where they stood on this obvious conspiracy between the corporate transportation giants offering reduced airfare/transportation in connection to this event and the federalist camp. Without such discounts, allege(d) the OUIs, far fewer would have allegedly made the trip.

    Obviously echoing the much better-known “YANKEE GO HOME”, this graffiti was intended to communicate how some separatists viewed (and fifteen years on continue to view) the entire event, federalism, and federalists in general – as an unwelcome and aggressive occupation of their land by foreign elements.

    And whatever side you happen to be on, there’s no arguing that it is a poignant, biting, succinct, and in many ways eloquent protest message.

    Where am I going with this?

    Weeks after the vote, I happened to walk past one such vestige of nationalist hospitality just as I had many other times in the intervening days since the “love-in” (as it has also come to be derisively called, especially in polemic separatist literature). But this time, something wasn't the same. Long after the crowds had left, the results had been tallied, and Parizeau had resigned, a mysterious passerby with excellent editorial acumen and wit – and whose state of consciousness, come to think of it, mustn't have been all that heightened – had crossed out part of the graffiti, underlined its replacement and fixed the grammar so that it now (correctly) read “CANADIANS *ARE* HOME”



    Now ask me again why I love this place.

    ReplyDelete
  48. "Feeling that seppie belligerence again. It's time for you to take the red pill. We defeated you once before, and we can do it again if you like. Easy to understand, no?"



    And how exactly "YOU" defeated us ?

    You must take yourselves for the former british empire, who won here thanks to their cowardly tactics such as deporting the innocent acadians and burning down our ancestors farms, while getting their asses kicked by a much smaller franco force at carillon. These pussies even managed to lost the last battle of the war at Ste-foy. They won because they were 10 times more than us and because France did not send enough troops.

    But whatever, i got a newsflash for you: "you" dont even get to take credit for the lame british victory here. You guys easely "forget" that the first big batch of anglos who came here were americans loyalists refugees, who fled like a bunch of cowards after they lost during the american revolution.

    At least our ancestors got the balls to stay here even tough they lost the war.

    And we feel so much like a defeated people that we put the law 101 on your asses. And what have you done since the 30 and + years we put it in place, exept whining about it on blogs ?

    You fled in masse, thats what you did. Thats right, just like your "courageous" loyalists ancestors.

    So yeah, we're very concerned about your violent threats, heh heh heh.

    ReplyDelete
  49. @apparatchik
    "I love genuinely living in French AND English; this is what Canada is really about."

    I meant no disrespect to yourself (mom's basement etc etc). The intent was more to the point, why would you waste time and energy on issues such as the language debate. It is clearly obvious that if you were not distressed by the situation in Quebec you would not be commenting either pro or con with regards to issues such as 101 and the continuing language debate.

    As to your comment I highlighted. Canada is not about French and English. The OLA is an ill fated legislation inflicted upon the majority of the country by a prime minister who was nothing more than an arrogant and ignorant franco bastard. One has only too look at the attendees at his funeral such as dictator Comrade Fidel to see PET's true colors. Canada is not a bilingual country as we all know well. In fact french is simply not a factor as statistics clearly indicate. Why then, do we, have federal quotas for bilingual (read French speakers) of 40% where there is simply not a requirement or a genuine need? Ridiculous, costly and totally discriminatory to the anglo/allo majority of this country.

    On the issue of Quebec.... Can you give me one solid benefit that Quebec brings to Canada other than a folklore language which is in demise on a worldwide basis. Seems to me that Quebec brings nothing but problems to the supper table. (FLQ, referendums, crime, etc etc ). Social programs which are paid for by others who due to fiscal responsibility do not enjoy the same benefits as those they sponsor. So, come up with a plus/minus analysis as to the net benefit of Quebec. I am sure at the end of the day you would have to agree that Canada would be a better country without Quebec. There is simply no tangible benefit that Quebec brings to Canada as a whole. None, de nada, de rien.

    Imagine how many hospitals or schools could have been built had it not been for the squandering of billions of dollars on the ill fated language program brought to us courtesay of whom. In essence Quebec and the Quebecois are nothing more than parasites sucking the blood from the ROC.

    Nuff said.

    ReplyDelete
  50. To Anonymus 9:24 PM. You say "You've isolated yourselves from a continent of 300 plus million, and from a world that can communicate in a common language."

    Do you know to be open to the world is not a question of language but of attitude ? Do you know if between Canada and United States there is a free trade agreement (a source of prosperity for Québécois and English-canadians) it's because Québécois wanted it while English-canadians wanted stay folded on themselves ? They preferred to stay in their corner with their inferiority complex towards Americans.

    Québécois nation can be proud to have helped English-canadian nation to open up the world. Unfortunately, English-canadians will always feel inferiors to Americans, because they are inferiors to Americans, but at least they have more money in their pockets.

    ReplyDelete
  51. "And what have you done since the 30 and + years we put it in place, exept whining about it on blogs ?"

    Ils ont mis sur pieds "alliance Quebec" association de losers aidée financièrement par patrimoine canada.Plus de subvention,plus d'alliance.Quelle bande de losers.C'est le meilleur coup des anglos de l'Ouest de les avoir abandonné.Ils ont vite compris que cette minorité est la mieux traitée d'amérique.

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  52. "...because they are inferiors to Americans..."

    Les canayens sont les hillbillies des Américains.
    A chaque fois qu'ils ont besoin d'un con pour tenir un rôle dans leurs productions,il est personnifié par un canayen avec une chemise a carreaux,des bretelles et un chapeau de fourrure...Mouhahaha!

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  53. "Do you know to be open to the world is not a question of language but of attitude ?"

    Are you suggesting that Quebec has an attitude of openess with its neighbours or the world around them?
    Is that why an incorporated business is denied English correspondence by revenue quebec when they move into the province and create jobs for us?
    Would you describe the accomondation talks as an open attitude when all the complaints by the ubermensch focused on the ills the Jews, Arabs and other minority groups supposedly cause them?
    Even hosting the accomondation talks was a disgusting display of racism. Who are you to accomondate us?! We are Canadian citizens and can move to any damn place on the Canadian map we damn well chose to, regional accomondation be damned.
    How would you rate Herouxville when it comes to proper attitude?
    Even video games are banned from entry and sale in the province if they are not dubbed in French.
    Have you never read the fine print that states "not available to residents of Quebec"?

    Quebec even devotes resources into regulating what language is used on the world wide web.

    Culturally, this province is clamed shut like an old rusted chastity belt and no amount of francopholie festivals, or jazz fests can gloss over the xenophobic, racist attitudes and anachronistic world views that are staples of day to day Quebecois existence.

    ReplyDelete
  54. "You fled in masse, thats what you did. Thats right, just like your "courageous" loyalists ancestors."

    Why don't you take a little drive by Val Cartier and see if anyone fled. Last time I checked the van doos still flew the maple leaf a shadow away from your so called 'national' assembly.

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  55. "You fled in masse, thats what you did. Thats right, just like your "courageous" loyalists ancestors."

    The Anglo descendents of the loyalists in Canada fought with great distinction in both world wars - liberating your cousins in France - while most of the Quebecois hid in the woods like the cowards they are.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Actually the loyalists came to what was left of British America. Where as france traded all of their possessions in what is now Canada except for St pierre and miquelon, for the tiny carribean island of Guadelope. In a way you are right, the French got the last laugh.

    Look at the parasites they left for the Rest of Canada.

    Even the early 1800s the british were forced to supply grain to Quebec as it was in a position of Famine. I bet you if France had controlled Quebec at that time, they would have just let the paysans coloniale deal with it on their own.

    Also your patriot hero Papineau wanted to have Quebec join the united states at one point. If that had happened, there would be no french in Quebec.

    ReplyDelete
  57. > You fled in masse, thats what you did. Thats right, just like your "courageous" loyalists ancestors.

    Actually, when you consider the huge number of French-Canadians who took up jobs in New England factories from the late 19th century right through the Great Depression and compare that with the number of anglos that left Quebec after the separatists began their pseudo-emancipation act just under a century later, you’ll realize that the numbers speak for themselves.


    > I meant no disrespect to yourself (mom's basement etc etc). The intent was more to the point, why would you waste time and energy on issues such as the language debate.

    LOL I don’t live in my mom’s basement, and I’ve got a job. I’m actually a member of a highly regulated Quebec profession and indulge in this blog to unwind. I also like to exercise my argumentativeness in a different environment with a pseudonym and occasionally with a partisan bent and humor that would be unacceptable at work. I try to remain as respectful as possible, because item the first of a good debate is to attack not the man, but his argument (item the second is to set the record straight when it isn’t). I don’t think I “waste” time or energy on this. I use it to reaffirm what I consider to be one of the most moderate positions on the national unity debate possible. I distrust over the top displays of patriotism because I’ve seen too many things look for validation by hiding behind various flags. Disgruntled ex-Quebecers and gung-ho ultra-nationalists might be adversaries in principle, but in practice I think they’re much more similar than they believe. Methinks they both doth protest too much.

    Quebec does have its rightful role in Canada. I deplore the childish name-calling that some petty debates degenerate into (sometimes even in these comments sections) because I think they hurt Quebecers and all Canadians, and worst of all don’t promote the kind of dialog we ought to be having – even if that dialog must eventually lead to two countries where there originally was just one. The absence of a mature debate is telling.


    > The OLA is an ill fated legislation inflicted upon the majority of the country by a prime minister who was nothing more than an arrogant and ignorant franco bastard.

    That’s certainly one interpretation. Interestingly, many of his detractors in the separatist camp say he was an arrogant anglo patsy and sellout who sent in the army to needlessly scare and occupy us. You can hate me all you want, but I think I see what he was trying to accomplish, and where he failed.


    > At least our ancestors got the balls to stay here even tough they lost the war.

    That’s actually not accurate at all. Our ancestors didn’t have the “balls” to stay here, they willfully accepted becoming subjects of the King. The upper strata of New France society went back to France as per the Articles of Capitulation [you really need to stop believing the bravado we’re brainwashed into: brush up on http://www.canadiana.org/view/42695/0010; this shows the articles as they were proposed by the French, as well as the response to each, if any, given by the British]. Those who stayed had to PROMISE, among other things, to be loyal to their new King. In particular, read Article XLI.

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  58. > You guys easely "forget" that the first big batch of anglos who came here were americans loyalists refugees, who fled like a bunch of cowards after they lost during the american revolution.

    And YOU easily forget that those “loyalists” would have had to grit their teeth and bear it had there not been an offer to settle in lands that remained loyal to the Crown. Did you actually listen in tenth grade history or not?


    > You fled in masse, thats what you did. Thats right, just like your "courageous" loyalists ancestors.

    Please, oh please don’t be the pot that called the kettle black. I think the (English-, French- and other) Canadians who were conscripted against their will and died “liberating” your French cousins could tell you a thing or two about stupidity and courage.


    > A chaque fois qu'ils ont besoin d'un con pour tenir un rôle dans leurs productions,il est personnifié par un canayen avec une chemise a carreaux,des bretelles et un chapeau de fourrure...Mouhahaha!

    Pis on prend ça avec un grain de sel parce qu’on sait que c’est rien que une joke… On n’accroit pas la sécurité frontalière comme protection culturelle préventive…

    ReplyDelete
  59. "The Anglo descendents of the loyalists in Canada fought with great distinction in both world wars - liberating your cousins in France - while most of the Quebecois hid in the woods like the cowards they are."


    Oh, yeah you think im gonna believe they went fighting for France ? NOpe, they enlisted for their motherland: UK.

    Now, you easely "forget" (because you're a racist) that 94 000 french-quebecers enlisted for overseas service during ww2. Thats despite the fact that the canadian army wasnt too nice with the french-canadians back then (even military historian Jack Granastein agree with that). Despite wide anti-conscription sentiments, the numbers of volunteers in french-canada (in ww2) wasnt very different from the numbers of volunteers in english-canada, by proportion. Same could be said about Korea or the present-days canadian military. Those facts, of course, wont stop your racism and your prejudices.

    Its true however that we did not went to fight en masse during ww1. But ww1 was only a colonial power dispute, it was not about "liberating" france from nazism (you moron) or any others countries for that matter. A lot of peoples mix ww1 and ww2, because the german were the main ennemy in both case ( well i guess).

    Canada had nothing to do in that war. We were right to oppose it. Why we should have sent our peoples to fight and die in a empire dispute, in a british-like army who disrepected us ? You anglos went to fight it because you were just a bunch of sheeps who still considered themselves british, wetting their panties at the sight of the queen. IN 1914, we didnt considered ourselves french citizens anymore, and certainly not british ones.

    That a population agree to send its sons getting hack down in the trenches only for the glory of the british empire is not courage: its fuc***g stupid.


    Now if you want to talk about cowardice. Please tell me about about the battle of carillon, where the brits lost against a much more smaller franco force. Or about the deportation of the unarmed acadians, where 1/3 of them died. Or about the cowardly british troops who burned down the farms, and murdered peoples on it, around quebec city and montreal to starve our population. Tell me about these nazi-esque tactics instead of the (very) small flq, you hypocrites.

    Or maybe you could tell me about the villages who were burned down after the 1837-1838 uprisings and the civilians who were murdered (it seems to be a very popular tactic by the "courageous" anglos). Or about the degenerates anglo-montrealers who burned down the montreal parliement. I could go on and on, we really have no lessons of courage to receive from your kind.

    And again all your insults does not change the facts: You guys like to tell us that you defeated us, when in fact a lot of your ancestors were a bunch of refugees who were on the losing side of the american revolution.

    Like i said, Our ancestors had the balls to fight a war and win significant victories angainst a much more powerful enemy, and stayed here after the lost. You really dont have any lessons of courage to give us.

    Your little facist mentality of seeing yourselves as superior and more brave to us is irrevelant. Your rhodesians days in quebec are over since a long time. Now, we've put the law 101 and you havent done anything against it in the last 30 and more years, execpt whining (of course) and fleeing a la loyalist :)

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  60. Actually Anon 8:44 PM has a point:

    "Now, we've put the law 101 and you havent done anything against it in the last 30 and more years, execpt whining (of course) and fleeing a la loyalist :)"

    If anglos had just ignored bill 101 and even bill 22 in the 70s alot of these laws wouldn't have been worth the paper they were written on. Even local school boards were controlled by municopalities, they could have just declared that they will take any residents into english school. Even a few local referendums to seperate municpalities from quebec. Blocking off the highways and general confrontation with the pur laine chauvanists would have done alot more then expecting rest of canada to do anything. A tax strike would have done the biggest damage. If the 700 000 anglos just stopped paying there wasn't much quebec could do. Also this was before the age of automatic computer deductions.

    By the way anon 8:44, the French lost Quebec city, because they neglected to guard very well, the area that the british actually launched their attack. The french thought an attack where the british had to climb the steep cliffs would have been impossible.

    All the acadians had to do, not to be deported was sign a piece of paper that said that they would be loyal to the new victors. Those that didn't sign were deported. I have not heard much about actual murder of civilians. I am not saying some isolated incidents might have happened, but these arguements coming from pur laine chauvanists are usually inflated anyway.

    Pur lainers love to make up alot of what they claim is history.

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  61. Yes, they make up a lot of things...just as the signs which is the topic of the editors post.

    Canada would be a much better Country without the Quebecois and the despotic backwater parasitic province of Quebec and their joual folklore language that they so like to inflict on the majority.

    How to starve out Quebec. Weld their mailboxes shut to stem the continous arrival of brown evenvlopes from the ROC.

    Leave already...

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  62. Canada would be a much beter country without the hypocrisy of English Canada mistreating the French the whay they do. As if they think they are the belly button of the world: this is racist, you just gave anon, the definition of racist. Your sense of avenging and destruct of the nation is
    AN ACT OF TERRORISM!
    we are better without people like you. who needs people like you. who wants to associate with CANaDA, (not the united nations! and they don't want you!)

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  66. > Canada would be a much better Country without the Quebecois and the despotic backwater parasitic province of Quebec and their joual folklore language that they so like to inflict on the majority.

    It’s comments like this from other Canadians that I find most hurtful because although they verbalize how frustrated English Canada is at our province’s stance on language, they completely ignore how, if you take away many sensationalized and over-hyped exceptions, we can be and often are a very socially liberal bunch. I still think that it’s in everyone’s best interest to come up with a way to assuage legitimate francophone fears of assimilation while exposing how we can actually get more done when we work together.

    There’s even a way to love, appreciate and admire even our frank, no-nonsense, salt-of-the-earth “joual folklore” heritage without it needing to feed into or clash with any politician’s opportunistic goals. The most helpful points of view don’t always come from Ivy-league-educated “leaders”.

    The sad thing is that this view is slowly eroded and discredited with each “cultural” episode that is appropriated by those in the media with an obvious political agenda. For a while we have bemoaned the slow death of “traditional journalism” as being the end of paper. This is as true in Quebec as it is, for example, in the United States and around the world.

    I submit to you that a greater danger to unity everywhere is the ratings-driven trashy drivel that compliantly masquerades as news and fact.

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  67. Here you are Aparashit ! Again, trying to philosophise when it is time for an argument re: separation from Quebec, while you send an axe in the back of the Quebeckers. What a HYPOCRIT you are ! SALAUD!
    Hey, by the way your friends are forgetting, but repopulation exists, (EX: Alsace) before today.
    We can import a lot of French from France, Haiti, Senégal etc.. (like the loyalists). They will transform quickly Montreal's island. In fact i'ts been working a lot in the last 15 years.... since Paris is so expensive to live in.

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  68. Talking of parasites, who are the people who refuse to speak another language ?

    Who are the people who refuse other people speaking another language ?

    Who are the people who pretend they never were afflicted from their taking over ?

    Who are the people living well and taking the jobs away from the French in their province of birth ?

    Who likes to enslave the others and step on them all the time ?

    Who pretends they are God and others are racists?

    ONE ANSWER: THE ANGLOPHONES FROM CANADA

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  69. You and your backwater, why don't you sit and rotate in it.

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  70. To the flat head who doesn't understand how the war broke out: the French Canadians were treated like shit to go to war. They were sent like meat grinders. They were treated like criminals while the f+++ng anglos were treated kindly and normally. You don't have any idea of the atmosphere, the degradation etc... the French put up with. Besides you are from another religion, you understand as well as the Americans understand the conflict in the middle east, so why can't you piss on your own shoes instead kid.

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  72. your fxxxng history books are written by someone with alzheimer and has an eye patch.


    Because the people wanted to live in French, keep their catholic faith and praying for the Queen:
    French Canada was treated like hell. A few churches burned down, the belongings of the Acadians were confiscated by the English, while our people were locked inside the church,catle was confiscated, houses burned down, the Acadians were deported, children and mother separated. Children were deported to American families. Lots of people died of smallpox. The misery was awful. Lots of boats never made their destination.

    what kind of a monster are you, laugh at the misery of my people.
    I don't know anybody who finds that funny.

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  73. les Acadiens:

    Une demande officielle d'un député d'ascendance acadienne du Bloc québécois a été déposée pour qu'il y ait reconnaissance par la couronne britannique du massacre.

    Oui un massacre: maisons brûlées, objets personnels confisqués, femmes et enfants séparés, gens brûlés enfermés dans les églises, champs dévastés, déportations par bateaux, familles d'enfants complète envoyés à des familles américaines, enfants mourants de la petite variole.


    Le gouverneur général du Canada – l'institution représentant aujourd'hui la couronne canadienne au pays, mais qui, avant le Statut de Westminster de 1931, représentait la couronne britannique – a pour sa part reconnu la Déportation des Acadiens. En décembre 2003, la gouverneure générale Adrienne Clarkson a reconnu le drame humain de la déportation, mais sans offrir d'excuses formelles. AUCUNE EXCUSES DE LA PART DU GOUVERNEMENT BRITANNIQUE.
    hELLO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Depuis, le 28 juillet est un jour de commémoration du .

    Une autre commémoration a lieu le 13 décembre, le Jour du Souvenir acadien rappelant le bateau Duke William qui coula en 1758 AVEC TOUTES NOS VIES QUI FURENT PERDUES.

    ========================
    vive le Québec libre
    A bat la reine et sa monarchie
    A bat le pacte de l'Amerique du Nord Britannique!

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  74. "Its true however that we did not went to fight en masse during ww1. But ww1 was only a colonial power dispute, it was not about "liberating" france from nazism (you moron) or any others countries for that matter. A lot of peoples mix ww1 and ww2, because the german were the main ennemy in both case ( well i guess)."


    In World War One, the Canadian Army helped drive the Germans out of territory they occupied in eastern France. The Battle of Vimy Ridge is one of the most famous examples. They WERE liberating the French. They also fought against the Germans in Belgium. I never said they were fighting the Nazis in this war. You are the fu*king moron!

    While some Quebecois did participate in the world wars, it is a fact that many of them did everything possible to avoid serving in the military. Some of them injected themselves with foreign substances so they would fail medical entry exams. Large numbers of them fled to the countryside and hid in the forests.

    I am familiar with a lake in the Outaouais region of Quebec, where Quebecois men of military age hid in caves along a heavily forested shoreline during both world wars.

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  75. Everyone seems to miss the point. The quebec seperatist movement is not about the french, or their culture. It is about people with very inflated egos, ideas, and with a little touch psychological issues. Most great leader manipulate their population into following their ideas, not the peoples wishes. Hitler is the best example. Bringing up issues of past grievances done by my or your ancestors...rubbish. I was not there, neither were you. To bring it up as justification for action against what I believe in is simply an attack. If you want justice, then try to adapt and push for reform, revolution is just another word for oppression.

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  76. Yes a lot of young Anglos think we "exagerate" our history; if the French are relunctant to have their language taking over by a majority, if they are so adamant not having their culture not tampered with, nor their language spoiled by its constant contact with another one, if they are in the need to protect their language, their culture, it is because there is a need.

    A need to belong to themselves. The deterioration of a language goes to the point of eliminating it. All respectable linguists will sign a petition for that purpose.

    RESPECT IS ALL THEY WANT. The French are not treated seriously in Canada, especially with the remarks about their history ! completely out of line from the participants. Instead of making people of Quebec ridicule you should check the history of the massacre of Acadia, see for yourself on wikipedia and apologize...

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  77. @anon 3:52

    The same people that force anglos and allos from the same province they were born in, where their ancestors industrialized Quebec (lachine canal) with their money and capital. Who employed thousands of pur laine workers. When they force the anglos and allos to move to the rest of canada and then take billions of dollars from equalization to spend it on more pgograms that drive more anglos from quebec. That is what I call parasites.

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  78. @anon 3:46

    ya you are importing french speaking immigrants as well. Though I remember quite a few of the french speaking immigrants from cameroons and haiti learning english and adapting english as their home language later on.

    Also remember the little riot recently in Montreal North. Who do you think were involved in that. Relying on the french speaking immigrants will not stop the demographic tide, it is helping the english speaking community in Montreal. They are alot less committed to Pur laine culture then Quebecois. how many hatiens, algeriens, and sengalese do you see in the St Jean baptiste parade?

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  79. @anon 5:18 and 5:50

    I read the article on deportation of acadians on wikipedia.

    From what I read the Acadians were given many opportunities to proclaim loyalty to the British. There existed a state of war many times in the 45 years of occupation. There was also savage warfare where women and children were killed. You 2 were acting like the acadians were all innocent in the matter. Typical pur laine chauvanist propaganda and disinformation.

    The acadians even after the lost of France in what is nova scotia aided and abetted the French forces and native allies and helped raid english settlements in new England.

    For that time in history the british were quite patient. Considering how colonial powers would have treated non european subjects, the acadians got off quite easy.

    Smallpox was a very common occurance at that time, remember how the majority of natives died?

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  80. From wikipedia, Look at how France treated its own subjects? Remember France didn't even negotiate strongly to Keep French canada. They traded all of French Canada(except for st pierre and miquelon) for tiny island of Guadelope.

    "Unfortunately, the Acadians in England had heard rumors that the exiles sent directly to France were ignored and allowed to starve at the docks. So, despite their staunch patriotism, the Acadians fell victim to propaganda and at first feared to return to France.[66] Once in France, the Acadians soon began to discover their fear of being treated poorly by the motherland was being realized.[67] Many plans were proposed concerning the Acadian question, but most were simply schemes to get them out of France, in which they would be subjected to “high rents, sterile lands, and unhealthy climates.”[68"

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  81. > Here you are Aparashit !

    What are you? A fourth grader?
    Take your potty mouth and your hyperactivity back to the sandbox where you can make all the armpit farts you want with your fanatical little friends from vigile.net. Tell Louis, Mario, and Raymond I say hello. Don’t forget the sunscreen.


    > Again, trying to philosophise when it is time for an argument re: separation from Quebec, while you send an axe in the back of the Quebeckers. What a HYPOCRIT you are ! SALAUD!

    Okay I take it back; maybe you’re not a fourth grader, but Rambo with Tourette’s. The pen is mightier than the sword.


    > Hey, by the way your friends are forgetting, but repopulation exists, (EX: Alsace) before today.
    We can import a lot of French from France, Haiti, Senégal etc.. (like the loyalists) […]

    I know. And like many of the immigrants before them, those Haitians come here for work and to make a future for their families. Unlike what your strategists have gambled on, most of them don’t cross oceans to come here and accomplish the political grunt work that white French Canadians won’t do. The ones who do are only paying lip service to you and your cause, which they are opportunistically using to get ahead. They’ll turn on you on a dime. Michaëlle Jean comes to mind…


    > […] They will transform quickly Montreal's island. In fact i'ts been working a lot in the last 15 years.... since Paris is so expensive to live in.

    I know. But the Plateau is so overpriced.

    Careful what you wish for, by the way. We might be letting in immigrants who speak French, but in terms of respect for deeply cherished Quebec ideals like secularism, they might as well be worlds away. Many such newcomers won’t be pushed around, even by you and your ilk. They understand our structures and the rights that they have. They’re also willing to use both against YOU.


    > […] French Canadians were treated like shit to go to war. They were sent like meat grinders.

    Yes. It’s called a draft. Go kill and be killed. Rich and powerful people decided it’s for their own good and nobody cares what you think. This is precisely why I think war is utterly stupid and I don’t understand your rush to violence (or even your pretensions toward it).


    > They were treated like criminals while the f+++ng anglos were treated kindly and normally.

    Didn’t we even have our own French-Canadian regiments?

    > Besides you are from another religion, you understand as well as the Americans understand the conflict in the middle east, so why can't you piss on your own shoes instead kid.

    Wha....?!?!

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  82. > vive le Québec libre
    > A bat la reine et sa monarchie
    > A bat le pacte de l'Amerique du Nord Britannique!

    Rumpelstiltskin! Rumpelstiltskin! RUMPELSTILTSKIN! Careful you don’t stomp so hard that you fall through the floor.

    En passant, c’est « à baS… »


    > Une demande officielle d'un député d'ascendance acadienne du Bloc québécois a été déposée pour qu'il y ait reconnaissance par la couronne britannique du massacre.

    Tout à fait acceptable. Ça s’inscrit d’ailleurs dans la mouvance de reconnaissance des actes passés répréhensibles faits par la grande majorité des pays occidentaux.

    En complémentaire, à quand une reconnaissance du gouvernement français pour avoir agressé, occupé, agressé et soumis les diverses nations et peuples autochtones amérindiennes de l’Amérique du Nord?

    @Anonymous 7:14 PM
    Sad but true.


    > The French are not treated seriously in Canada […]

    We treat others how to treat us through our behavior. How about setting a less embarrassing example?

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  83. @anon 7:51

    Aucun problème,pourvu qu'ils puissent fonctionner en Français chez nous.Pour ce qui est de la St-Jean,ils sont libres comme tous Québécois d'y participer ou non.De plus,ils ne sont pas plus nombreux a la St-Patrick et encore moins a la fête du canada.

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  84. You are confounded again. So you don't like the name Aparshit. Not bad, it suits you well. Sounds like you belong to the Iroquois.

    So, you just found out about Acadia. Good. No knowledge of Quebecois history. A bat: abattre les idiots ! don't try French my language has intriguing secrets, out of your way my boy.

    Stay on topic, nobody apologizes for the French Quebecois, the founding Nation of this continent. You were close to the Iroquois Mr. English and you are responsible for the martyrs Jean de Brébeuf († 16 mars 1649),Noël Chabanel († 8 décembre 1649), Antoine Daniel († 4 juillet 1648), Charles Garnier († 7 décembre 1649),
    René Goupil († 29 septembre 1642),Isaac Jogues († 18 octobre 1646),
    Jean de La Lande († 18 octobre 1646),
    Gabriel Lalemant († 17 mars 1649).
    a lot of people coming to New France. Some of them were forced to eat their ears and tongue before they were burn. Thank you very much for mentioning the Ameridian association Mr. English. Your profil on this site is interesting....

    Ne leur donnez pas de sympathie, ils ne le méritent pas. Des insultes rien que des insultes. Ma famille est au Canada depuis 1769, j'aurais trop à dire... croyez moi.

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  85. @anon 9:17

    Yes because Quebec did its best to make July the 1st Moving day. Makes Canada day parade inconvenient for alot of people. Coincidence. I think not.

    Once they get canadian citizenship they don't vote PQ or Bloc Quebecois. Many of them would probably would vote for an equality party type political party if the lived in heavy anglo-allo areas.

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  86. Whoa minute...

    > No knowledge of Quebecois history.

    Would that be the history that begins with "Once upon a time" and features dragons and goblins?

    I think my responses show that I am an eager student not just of Quebec history, but of World history as well. And that I'm capable of critical thinking. Something you have yet to show.


    > So you don't like the name Aparshit

    I don't really care. When I realized it's an anagram for "trips aha", I realized we had made a very special connection and had an 'aha' moment of my own.


    > [...] nobody apologizes for the French Quebecois, the founding Nation of this continent. You were close to the Iroquois Mr. English [...]

    Just a question... has anyone ever accused you of being a bigot? And what's this talk about my fireworks suppliers?


    > Stay on topic [...]

    Are you f****ing kidding me, crackpot? You're the one spewing incoherent babble like it's going out of style...

    I can stay on topic. You and your kind obviously can't.


    > [...] you are responsible for the martyrs [...]

    Okay now I know you're totally delirious.

    All these people died before the méchants anglais robbed our holy and pristine people of our rightful earthly kingdom... and all of these guys died before I was even born...


    > Thank you very much for mentioning the Ameridian association Mr. English.

    Anything I can do to encourage Native business. They've been through so much, after all.


    > Your profil on this site is interesting

    Why, thank you. It's a rental.


    > Ma famille est au Canada depuis 1769 [...]

    Et ma famille est ici depuis la nuit des temps.

    1769?! Tes ancêtres ont dû faire partie de cette émigration française clandestine mais pourtant bien connue qui a eu lieu dans la décennie qui a suivi la conquête... sur tapis magique. Ça ne me surprendrait pas du tout.

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  87. "Who are the people living well and taking the jobs away from the French in their province of birth ?"

    The French are not the only ones born in this province you racist scab. Being a Francophone entitles you to nothing. You were on the losing side of a colonial war. You are not part of an indigenous group either. You are entitled to the same rights and privileges as any other Canadian citizen. No more, no less.

    "Who are the people who refuse other people speaking another language ?"

    Are you on crack? Duh, let's see, who restricts language use with repressive legislation?
    Can it be any other place in the Western hemisphere other than Quebec?

    If you want entitlement based on culture I suggest you move back to the fatherland. Make it a rural location. Us immigrants, we go everywhere to steal French jobs, and we like cities.

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  88. As a Ontarian (Toronto) I'm appalled by the racism in Quebec. It's sickening. The separatists are a pack of cowards who are still stuck on the Plains of Abraham. A pathetic tribe that whines and waves their fists at the clouds. Believe me, I'd love to see the province separate from the Real Canada. But I have to think of my brothers and sisters who believe in a nation ... separtists, fuck off and die.
    Signed: Canadian Nationalist.

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  89. Inferiority complex by english Canadians... aie aie

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