Friday, May 23, 2014

Time to Blow up the PQ !

Out with the old....
Now don't get excited, the headline isn't any sort of a terrorist threat, sports fans understand what the term 'blowing up' a team indicates in relation to a disastrous and bitterly disappointing season.

It means to completely destroy and rebuild the team, in an effort to start over from scratch, with the Vancouver Canucks being the latest prime example, where right after the regular season, one where the Canucks missed the playoffs, the coach and general manager were unceremoniously dumped, with the new management team given the mandate to clean house, that is, to trade players, even the stars, in order to reset the dynamic and build for the future.
"The Vancouver Canucks are a mess right now. An absolute mess. .... .....If you’re going to blow up a team, then blow up a team. Don’t just partially tear it down and call it good. Link
I actually can't think of a better metaphor to describe the Parti Quebecois, which is pretty much the political version of the Canucks, once high and mighty, now a mere shadow of things past, an embarrassment to loyal fans.

While the mainstream press concentrates over the possible replacement for Pauline Marois, the defunct PQ leader, the media fails to understand that the desperate situation in the PQ goes far beyond a leader, and just like changing the coach in Vancouver alone, it won't change the fortunes of the PQ team, which is rotten to the core.

Pauline has left the party in shambles, there's no other way to put it. She put her personal ambition to remain Premier above  the public good and would it be possible, I've no doubt she'd have sold her soul to the devil , à la Dorian Grey, to remain in power.
As leader she led the way to the most divisive and harmful government this province has ever endured.
In my lifetime I cannot remember a government so thoroughly reviled by opponents and this all on the PQ for promoting the politics of hate in a nakedly partisan attempt to win power by dividing citizens into us/them camps.

I can go back to the first René Levesque government and trace all the subsequent leaders of PQ leaders up to Lucien Bouchard and say that I never as an anglo felt so disrespected by my own government.
René Lévesque, Pierre-Marc Johnson,  Jacques Parizeau, Lucien Bouchard and even Bernard Landry all had a certain gravitas and while all promoted sovereignty, none went out of the way to purposely antagonize Anglos and Ethnics or make us feel unwelcome.
Yes, I know that many of you are thinking of Parizeau's  remarks on the night of the referendum loss, but clearly he was frustrated and disappointed and probably in the cups when he made the unfortunate utterance that has now become famous.
But Parizeau was humiliated by his own actions and did the honourable thing in resigning over the incident, I still maintain that it was never representative of the man, who was actually quite urbane, open and actually inclusive.

But what Pauline Marois and the PQ did was despicable, rolling the dice on a wedge issue that was sure to rip Quebec apart, something that was actually the underlining intention,  a strategy to make Quebecers choose sides based on language and religion.

Over and over again,  François Legault and the CAQ told the PQ during the last Parliamentary session that a compromise was available, if only the PQ removed the most contentious parts of the Charter of Values.
 In fact both Parizeau and Landry publicly implored Marois to back down on the Charter, all to no avail. They tried to convince Marois that to slam minorities so hard was a recipe for disaster, a course that in the end proved to be exactly that. But the PQ team believed that forcing francophones to choose sides would ultimately bring electoral success, which was all that mattered at the time and governing for themselves and not the people became the PQ's raison d'etre.

I shall never forget the supremely arrogant Bernard Drainville telling reporters that a compromise was indeed available, but if only the opposition compromised its position and embraced the Charter as presented. What unmitigated chutzpah.
After the election debacle Drainville completely reversed himself, telling reporters that a compromise was indeed in the works, but that the election got in the way.
It is that type of lie that sent the fortunes of the PQ plummeting after the election, when the truth came out about the other big PQ lie, that of the non-existent legal opinions over the Charter.
 
And so if the PQ thought the election rout was its low point, it was a rude awakening for the party to find that just a few short weeks after the election, it has sunk in popularity, losing about 25% of its election support, down below the 20% level, a historical low if I am not mistaken.

Now electors are not swift, but somehow get to the truth in the long run, bringing to mind the old Abraham Lincoln adage that tells us that;

You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/abrahamlin110340.html#MF7r6f3mySUk3rMB.99
You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time."
You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/abrahamlin110340.html#MF7r6f3mySUk3rMB.99

You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/abrahamlin110340.html#MF7r6f3mySUk3rMB.99
What conclusions did Quebec voters come to before the election?

Firstly, on the question of integrity, the public rightly concluded that the PQ had nothing to teach the Liberals over honesty and that the only reason the Liberals had a worse record was because they were in power much longer.
Pauline's hubby, the oily Claude Blanchet may have been the most unpopular person in the election and although not running for office and actually hiding from public view, his disreputable shadow cast a heavy pall over the PQ campaign.
While the integrity issue should have been a slam/dunk for the PQ, the public rightly concluded that when it came to honesty, all Quebec politicians and political parties are as guilty as the next.
And so the issue, while of paramount importance, was deemed to be a wash, something the PQ never counted on..

As for the Charter, the PQ outright miscalculated its impact.
While many non-traditional PQ voters embraced its precepts, it wasn't enough to move them to vote for the PQ with other issues far more important.

But the real issue that haunts the PQ election campaign is sovereignty, for which the PQ has Pierre-Karl Pelédeau to thank.
Quebecers voters took one sniff at his separatistagenda and ran for the hills, there's no other way to put it politely. This is the shocking lesson of the election.

For the PQ it was a shock as profound as that of a child who finds out there really isn't any Santa Claus. The rejection of the PQ's holiest of tenets, turning the sovereigntist world upside down.
 
With the rejection of sovereignty, the rejection of the politics of division, coupled with the revelation of duplicitous manipulation and lying, as well as the dubious ethics of Marois and her husband, it is no wonder that the PQ now is engulfed by the proverbial Perfect Storm.

Changing the leader won't alter the fact that the PQ is in the voter doghouse. Only time can possibly heal the rift between the party and the voters and even that remains to be seen.
Like Moses who sinned while wandering the desert and was refused entrance to the promised land, so too will the PQ leadership be sacrificed, it is the only thing that can save the party, if it is at all savable.
Shortly after the election, Sylvain Tanguay was removed as PQ party boss and Marois supporters, both Harold Lebel and Nicole Léger were removed from the PQ executive in a caucus vote, signalling that the old guard was no longer trusted. 
It seems that those on the bottom are convinced that they've got to remove those on top.

So don't look to Drainville, Lisée or PKP to win the leadership, an outsider is needed to re-generate the party, somebody who had nothing to do with the planning and staging of the last election.

For those who think that PKP may be the answer it doesn't look good. The young turks in the party always resented the interloper and held their nose in the interest of winning.
But PKP is a liability, who brings nothing to the table except a reputation as a union buster and rich kid, two characterisitcs that hardly are enduring to Quebecers.

His less than average magnetism and poor speaking skills don't auger well for a potential leader. Also the fact that he has no constituency within the party make him a prime political target, and the baby wildebeest that is lagging dangerously behind the herd, he is ripe for the picking by th more experienced and deadly PQ carnivores. Even with that, I'm not sure he has what it takes to battle in the dirty, dirty cesspool of politics, where backstabbing and double-crossing are par for the course and this within one's own party! The political pitch on which PKP will battle the Liberals is slanted decided in the other guys favour and all of PKP's money can't help.

And does PKP really have what it takes to carry on over four long years on the cold hard benches of opposition, where one must passively watch the guys in power on the other side of the house, doing what you are denied.
Somehow I don't see it, PKP will become bored, his aristocratic style under supreme duress. I can't see him doing the rubber chicken circuit rubbing shoulders with the ho-polloi after a lifetime of privilege, where his word was regally obeyed, working in a committee, is just not his style.

At any rate, I see him as a Rodney Dangerfield character, the one in the movie 'Back to School' where a wealthy, but uneducated hard-nosed businessman returns to college and imposes his lifestyle on all around with hilarious results.
He cannot resist using his money and the hilarous moral is that he is able to change the school, instead of the school changing him. Somehow I don't see PKP having that type of impact.
 
So for PKP, it is only a matter of time before he gives up , he is either too smart, too dumb, or just to arrogant for the job.
As for Drainville and Lisée they are just plane burned, their reputation in tatters, deemed responsible for the election drubbing.
The new leader will come from deep within the caucus, likely somebody untainted by the past, with a decent shot at putting the dirty linen behind, somewhat like Couillard did.

But it remains to be seen if that even blowing up the PQ will even work, because it all comes down to sovereignty and for the PQ it is a Catch-22 situation, where giving up sovereignty is unthinkable and keeping it around, toxic for its health.

124 comments:

  1. I think that the PQ is dead like the Union Nationale. It certainty did not become what René Levesque had envisaged it to be that of sovereignty-association.

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    1. It's very close to what René Levesque talked about with sovereignity-association. The difference between Quebec (and Canada) now and in 1960 is huge. Almost every aspect of day-to-day life from health, education, justice, policing, immigration and so on, is under provincial jurisdiction.

      Yes, there is still "association" in the sovereignity-association relationship, but that's the point. Levesque never talked about complete independence, he talked about an association. A compromise.

      It's really too bad, I think, that Levesque's legacy isn't that of a founding father of a modern-day country which is part of a larger association. Too many people still seem to want some kind of 19th (or 17th) century definition of "country."

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    2. @jay

      "Almost every aspect of day-to-day life from health, education, justice, policing, immigration and so on, is under provincial jurisdiction."

      it's not "almost every aspect" jay. if it was it would be almost every tax dollar we'd send to quebec. truth is it's half. far from the "almost all" lie you're peddling today.

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    3. Generally agree with you Jay. The supposedly waning and ambiguous relationship Quebecers apparently maintain both with Canada and with full independence is telling.

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    4. It's always about the money with you, eh, Student? So, it's half today, it'll be more or less in the future, it will change as circumstances change - that's the point of the 'association' part.

      Or, you could say 100% of the money is still within Canada. It depends how closely you want to draw the borders. Do you keep all the tax money collected within each town? On each block of a city?

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    5. But isn't the truth that, quebec behaves as if it is independent already? And actually...it is, except for very few domaines where it is still under Federal jurisdiction? You can count these on one hand. quebec can no longer claim it is sujicated by Canada with a straight face. Consequently, quebecers no longer bother with "official" independence because there is no need to declare it on paper, what for? Especially when you can have your cake and eat it too?

      AND the fact that there is no problem, prompted the PQ to fabricate one. Theatre and fiction at their best prior to April 7th. You can't manufacture a problem where none exists, try as you may. People may be distracted, but they are still paying attention and they are not complete idiots. It is perhaps this reality that has diehard separatists grievously worried and running in the marathon of their lives. It threatens their very existence ..more importantly, it threaten their pockets. The OQLF springs to mind. There is no longer a need for the Language police because there are no longer any crimes against the French Language. In a few years the OQLF will have to be disbanded because they twiddle their thumbs all day. THAT realization prompted them to push the envelope to the extreme ...ergo ...persecuting the big guns on Language descriptors. These bandits and their ilk, have had a good thing going for 40 yrs, instilling Fear in quebecers primarily, not to mention milking threats and blackmail for all they are worth via-à-vis Canada. But now, how do you combat unmitigated indifference from the PM (towards your province) and the RoC who have become desensitized to quebec antics? quebec has become a silly punchline, Canada no longer gives a crap what quebec does and quebec has realized it's lost all of its bargaining power because there is nothing left to bargain for; it's already in charge of 99.9% of all areas that concern it AND the minuscule .1% that eludes it, entitles it to hefty transfer payments...Win Win! Best not to rock the boat perhaps?

      Pushing the seppie agenda right now in 2014, has become about a specific tiny group of individuals trying desperately hang on to some kind of relevance so they can keep lining their pockets, ....bottom line. There is no wind in the sail of the "dream" of independence because, for all intent and purposes, quebec already is and people have moved on.

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    6. @jay

      "It's always about the money with you, eh, Student?"

      no it's not. with me it's always about countering bad arguments. claiming "almost every aspect" of a quebecker's life is under provincial jurisdiction, when same quebecker sends half his taxes to ottawa, is ludicrous.

      if you sent half of your income to me for me to then spend it on what i think is good for you, would you think "almost every aspect" of your life if under your control? here i'm not saying that i would do a bad job in figuring out what you need, what i'm saying is your claim is not reasonable.

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    7. That *might* have been a half-decent analogy until one realizes that Canada was established specifically with a two-tiered provincial/federal structure so as to give French-Canadians a province where "almost every aspect" that was important to them would be under the control of a French-Canadian-controlled legislature.

      Turning on our English-Canadian compatriots a hundred years later all while legislatively impairing the upper hand they had organically gained in this province was and continues to be an evil for which the Quiet Revolution has never held to account...yet.

      But hubris is a bitch. What goes around comes around. Ask Pauline.

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    8. @appartachik

      "...where "almost every aspect" that was important to them would be under the control of a French-Canadian-controlled legislature. Turning on our English-Canadian compatriots a hundred years later..."

      here you are implying that all of what is controlled by ottawa is not important to quebeckers. you are implying that international trade, monetary policy, rail security, telecommunications, world peacekeeping and even their own employment insurance and pensions, to make just a few random examples, are not important to quebeckers?!? that's false.

      you have an ultra paternalistic attitude mate. totally inconvenient in the realm of rigorous debating.

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    9. @student "with me it's always about countering bad arguments. claiming 'almost every aspect' of a quebecker's life is under provincial jurisdiction, when same quebecker sends half his taxes to ottawa, is ludicrous."

      Incorrect information leads to bad arguments. Quebec receives more money from the Ottawa than it sends. This has been pointed out many times before. Please stop spreading misinformation. It is inappropriate in any form of discourse.

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    10. Ttc dollar amounts change all the time but it isn't exactly taxation without representation....

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    11. @confused in quebec

      "Quebec receives more money from the Ottawa than it sends."

      quebec doesn't have control over the money that it receives from ottawa. that money is not under "provincial jurisdiction". jay's claim that quebec controls almost every aspect of its citizen's life is therefore false. as the real figure is half. that's the point. you're off mate. if i proposed to you that you give me half your income every year and i'll give you 10% more back in goods and services that i think you will like. would you accept that? of course not, so why do you think it's acceptable for quebec?

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    12. That's a strange autocorrect. Should be "The."

      Student, you do see the difference between "almost all," and "all." Also, you do understand that Ottawa isn't a foreign country and many decisions made in Ottawa about spending are made by Francophone Québécois? You do vote in federal elections, don't you?

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    13. Student can't win an argument based on merits, or logical arguments, when he has none or he has nothing meaningful to say he switches to pedantic arguments focusing on a turn of phrase that he doesn't understand.

      StudentLogic©: Everything - some tax money ≠ almost everything.

      Of course making a well constructed argument is not really student's aim, Student just wants to make sure that he has the most posts in the forum, which student has said as much in the past.

      Now have at that evil Federal government for earmarking tax money to go to infrastructure and healthcare instead of balloon fights and wasting tax payer money like on that charter leaflet, that's 1 million dollars we'll never see again.

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    14. @whowhatzit: so true. Even the disgraceful previous premier backed off demanding control over EI. It would have cost the province extra billions a year. How many times do we have to repeat facts that trolls so conveniently forget? Some students never learn, so they're doomed to failing their courses and eventually dropping out.

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  2. I can go back to the first René Levesque government and trace all the subsequent leaders of PQ leaders up to Lucien Bouchard and say that I never as an anglo felt so disrespected by my own government.
    René Lévesque, Pierre-Marc Johnson, Jacques Parizeau, Lucien Bouchard and even Bernard Landry all had a certain gravitas and while all promoted sovereignty, none went out of the way to purposely antagonize Anglos and Ethnics or make us feel unwelcome.


    Granted I might be a little too young to have been around (let alone politically aware) in the 70's and 80's, but even though I don't define myself as exclusively "anglo" the way you do, the "gravitas" you assign to apparently all previous PQ leaders rings hollow to me. The fact that Quebec is moving away from France-style politician theatrics means little to me if the politics they espouse and peddle is still of the urinary variety upon my various footwear.

    Let's quit pussyfooting around the issue. The problem here is in the malaise that the various strains of French-Canadian nationalism have with themselves and particularly with each other. And chief among the sources of this uneasiness is the fact that most of the "mainstream" separatist/nationalist ideology (PQ, SSJB, and pretty much all of Vigile and their ideological cousins), while it is constructed upon the "humiliation" of 1759, is all about superficially, artificially, and repressing in (Quebec's) French-Canadians' collective memory much of what came about as a result of France's ceding North America to the British. This has been and will be no more successful the equally ridiculous idea of endowing Quebec, a majority francophone province, with an English-only facade (to the complete and artificial suppression of anything French).

    While I don't agree with everything he said in his trial baloon ths week, I do believe Maxime Bernier had it right when he said
    «Il va falloir finir par accepter le fait que cela s'est passé il y a plus de 250 ans. Et que le Québec d'aujourd'hui est celui qui a été façonné pendant ces 250 ans, ce n'est pas une sorte de Nouvelle-France corrompue par la présence anglophone et à laquelle il faudrait redonner la pureté d'antan»

    (We'll have to ultimately accept that this happened over 250 years ago. And that modern-day Quebec is one that has been molded by the last 250 years; it isn't some kind of New France corrupted by anglophone presence and (the former of whose) whose purity of old ought to be restored.)

    Bernier's made a few statements on our province's backward language politics in the past few years and despite his perhaps deserved fall from grace for admittedly negligent behavior, I think we ought to consider giving him a second look in the years ahead, if only for his views on this very important matter.

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  3. Something to boil your blood a bit this weekend. Look at a separatist tearing up Canadian flag at 1:48.

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    1. These no-class goons had also been discussed here on Wednesday.

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    2. a canadian imbecile looks for trouble and finds it. is there anything more to say about this incident troy? why would your blood boil over a canadian flag being teared? are you such a passionate canadian nationalist troy?!?

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    3. Radical Quebec separatists are unable to agree to disagree with others. They consider any disagreement with them to be a “provocation”, which in turn they feel legitimatizes their violence. Even pro-Israeli and pro-Palestinian demonstrators are able to protest respectfully at Dominion Square, but not radical Quebec separatists.

      That is one of the reasons why their movement is doomed.

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    4. But isn't extremism of any variety a form of cult indoctrination?

      ONE language, ONE identity, ONE ideology, ONE people, ONE polity....
      Kind of interesting how insistence on uniformity sometimes impairs unity rather than foster it.

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    5. Aппара́тчик,

      With the risk of invoking the Goodwin's Law, what you wrote is mighty close to "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer," is it not?

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    6. Invoke all the laws, counter-laws, and sociological adages you want. What I'm calling for is lucid introspection and pragmatic moderation instead of jingoism and kneejerk defensiveness. Real self-criticism, and not its imposter (of the "we-should-be-more-dogmatic variety), is what brings about beneficial change.

      I believe such introspection is as necessary in a schoolyard as it is in a family and even a workplace.

      Even the Nazis, in their bid to unify and purify Germany, caused unmeasurable pain to both "good" and "pure" ethnic Germans as well as the many minorities the Nazis chose to persecute.

      The cultivation of a single identity is itself an artificial process requiring the suppression of some elements and the emphasis of others. The next step is even more pernicious, in which such artificial sludge is to be willingly grafted into the minds of millions of people and accepted without question. Not only does the pretense to uniformity so imposed fly in the face of reality when the group is arguably homogeneous, it is even more so as the group grows to become increasingly diverse. It is further hilariously tragic when the identity fails to keep pace with the composition of the group and the realities of the day.

      And yes, all this does in many ways resemble religious indoctrination. Consider ultraconservative Jewish, Christian, or Muslim groups around the world and the rhetoric they use to keep their respective packs on a short leash. Alternatively, revisit ethnic nationalist conservatives around the world and the polemical generalizations they tend to use. Their fixation upon mechanisms to exclude arbitrarily defined "corrupting influences" to preserve some equally arbitrarily defined "order" and "purity" often leads to ugly results.

      But that shouldn't surprise anyone. After all, there are several cultures -- many of them fairly advanced ones at that -- whose members presume to buy the gods' favors with offerings, both tangible and symbolic...

      And I contemplate this as I reflect with continued horror the French-Canadian nationalist (read: péquiste and related) legislative and social "ideals" of forcing newcomers to this province to assimilate exclusively and without choice into a similar identity and narrative. Yes, an identity born of a socially engineered, parallel-universe hallucination of a New France successor state, eerily devoid if not blithely oblivious to the cultural and linguistic reality of the landmass around us. I say oblivious, except to wave that 300-million-English-speakers-surrounding-us scarecrow when it's politically expedient. Or to alternately fawn over or hold in contempt our American neighbors, Or to remind us that there are also Spanish speakers to the south, residing in indolent second-world banana republics and to whom we ought to feel some kindredness -- or greater connectedness, at least, than the evil "Saxons" with whom "our" Germanic ancestry is arguably more common). But I digress.

      My contemplation is someone lightened by the thought of what could be -- an identity of our citizens' and immigrants' choosing -- one that integrates traditional and contemporary French, British, and North American, and world influences, in language, thought, habits, and outlook. I daresay my vain contemplation is one I suspect would make all of us richer, prouder, and more mutually invested in actually belonging here.

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    7. "... except to wave that 300-million-English-speakers-surrounding-us scarecrow when it's politically expedient."

      Very good points, Aparatchik. I also find this fixation on the current language people happen to be speaking as opposed to their heritage or culture a little odd - or as you say, a convenient scarecrow. As if the 300 million are some kind of united front...

      There was an interesting map floating around Facebook last week that showed the third most commonly spoken language in each American state after English and Spanish. It was surprising in how many states it's French or German.

      French-Canadian culture is unique. As is German-Illinois culture. And Swedish-Minnesotan culture. And African-American. We shouldn't be so easily fooled by a common language. Makes me think of Churchill's famous quote about America and England being two countries separated by a common language...

      The example I'm most familiar with is Ireland and in some ways it makes a good comparison to Quebec. Ireland was England's first colony and they wiped out the Irish language. There are currently efforts to revive it but not a lot of interest, partly because, I think, Irish culture is very strong and in many ways the Irish mastered English as well or better than the English.

      Imagine if Québécois culture was as big a presence in the world as Irish culture. I'm mostly speaking about the arts here, of course, because Ireland is much smaller than Quebec (in both population and land mass and resources) and it's main export is art - in English.

      Maybe the lesson the English learned in Ireland is that if colonized people become English-speakers they can more easily join the rest of the world - that might be especially the case in North America.

      Perhaps a better example would be African-American. It's no wonder the thing slave owners feared the most were slaves who could read and write English.

      It would be quite ironic if the English felt the best way to keep the Québécois colonized was to keep them French-speaking.

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    8. "There are currently efforts to revive it but not a lot of interest, partly because, I think, Irish culture is very strong..."

      no that's not it. irish culture would be tronger if gaelic was still used in ireland. the reason efforts to revive it don't work is gaelic is dead. english took over. there is no coming back from cultural assimilation. that's what you need to prevent from happening in quebec. good example jay.

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    9. No, we're going to have to disagree on this. If you've ever been to Ireland you would see that it is far from assimilated into English culture. Just like it's far from assimilated into American culture.

      You really need to look beyond language. The Irish have and the culture is doing fine.

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    10. @jay

      "The Irish have and the culture is doing fine."

      it would be doing even better if they still lived in gaelic.

      what you are saying here is french canadian culture would be "doing fine" if french canadians didn't speak french anymore. totally absurd of course. please think things through before posting. you're capable of the best.

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    11. Jay, the Twitter map you speak of came from this Slate article and it includes several other interesting maps as well.
      http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2014/05/language_map_what_s_the_most_popular_language_in_your_state.html

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    12. “it would be doing even better if they still lived in gaelic.”

      You have no possible way of knowing that. You’re just making up judgements about other people’s cultures because you are in the firm grip of PQ propaganda.

      This dogmatic blindness probably makes you think that Wales or Brittany would also be “doing even better” if they were limited to speaking Welsh and Breton only and had passed anti-English and anti-French laws, respectively.

      Speaking Irish English is most definitely an extremely important aspect of Irish culture. Not only has it long made up part of the Irish culture, it is something that no Irishman would ever want to give up. In any event, Ireland is not Quebec and Quebec is not Ireland.

      In Europe alone, there has always been a melding of countless cultures, mini-cultures and micro-cultures that anybody could say “would be doing even better” if the rest of the world didn’t exist, but that is not how the world works. Otherwise, Europeans would all be frozen in time and still be speaking Proto-Indo-European, with none of the diversity that you claim to cherish. Thousands of cultures and languages have come and gone, more than we can possibly know, and yet the world goes on.

      Without this cultural influence on each other, not even your beloved French, nor its often-scorned variant, Quebec French, would even exist for you to be angry about.

      You really need to look beyond language. The Irish have and the culture is doing fine.

      This hangup that pequistes have about language and language alone is going to be their downfall.

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    13. It’s not quite as simple as the knee-jerk decrying of “colonial oppression”.

      Irish Gaelic has been a minority language in Ireland since the early 1800s. While the decline of Irish Gaelic was partly due to British rule, its use dramatically declined as a result of the Great Famine in the 1840s, when Ireland lost a quarter of its population due to death and emigration and which disproportionally affected poorer Irish speakers on the western and southern coasts. Irish political leaders themselves considered the language “backwards”, encouraging English as the language of the future, and the Roman Catholic Church discouraged the use of Irish in its schools as well. As a result of this stigma, Irish parents actively discouraged their children from speaking the language long after independence.

      The language shift that was due to British rule in Ireland, however, was nowhere near as severe as that in post-Revolutionary France. The Third, Fourth and Fifth republics employed humiliating practices to stamp out minority languages and dialects from the French territory (in the case of Breton, this went on right up until the 1960s).

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    14. This hangup that pequistes have about language and language alone is going to be their downfall.

      I agree. I see what as Quebecers we collectively did to our Church which for a long time did quite a bit of good but also quite a bit to control and otherwise dictate our freedoms and behaviors.

      The fact that our churches are today being converted into condos might be sad, but it's not without reason.
      I wouldn't be surprised to see ethnic French-Canadians living in Quebec massively and unstoppably turning against this similar bid to control and otherwise dictate the language in which we lead our lives.

      And I actually and genuinely fear that THAT is what will rapidly sound the death-knell of French in Quebec. Far more than immigrants choosing to assimilate into a bilingual or English-dominiant environment upon settling in this province.

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    15. @the cat

      "This dogmatic blindness probably makes you think that Wales or Brittany would also be “doing even better” if they were limited to speaking Welsh and Breton..."

      you're trying to have me say wales as a country would be better off if all its inhabitants spoke welsh only. well mate you misunderstood, or you're building up a strawman. or both.

      as what i clearly convened is welsh culture would be healthier if welsh was still commonly used in wales. or gaelic in ireland. and i don't think french canadian culture will be "doing fine" when french is only spoken from grand-mère to latuque.

      of course you agree with this so you already put forward your next argument, oh well it's demographics and cultures evolve and mix and languages die and it's no big deal.

      only two kinds of people hold this position. people from a culture that is dominat and therefore not threatened, think english in america and chinese in china. or people that have not passed along as much of their cultural heritage as they should have. think the sicilian father who has not passed on the dialect to his son.

      the first are the most biased bunch. they always sound like hey your grand-children won't understand you when you speak but it's allright they'll understand me. they hide behind some kind of demographic fate to hypocritically promote assimilation, knowing very well that their own culture is on the way to take over, how shitty is this argument mate? exactly. and maybe it's yours.

      i write maybe cause you could also be poor chap who needs to convince himself that he did the right thing by not leaving his father's language along with his house to his own sons. so the dude will keep pounding that cultures evolve and it's normal that languages disappear to avoid a guilt overdose. but if he's honest he'll just acknowledge that the world will be poorer when everyone is an anglophone. or chinese.

      which one of these two are you the cat? the hypocrit anglo-saxon that would like to seal another wipeout, or the guilty fellow who envies french canadians because they do better than him at culture preservation?

      Delete
    16. Are you really STILL whining about your fear of disappearing? Hello, it’s 2014!

      There are literally thousands of cultures and languages that are at genuinely at risk of disappearing. French in Quebec is not one of them. And not one of them is trying to oppress their own minorities in order to justify their own existence.

      Continuing to repeat the same old tired PQ propaganda that hasn’t worked for 50 years is *FAIL*.

      Suck it up, buttercup.

      Delete
    17. “a canadian imbecile looks for trouble and finds it. “

      Quebec imbeciles looking for trouble apparently don’t exist in your fantasy world.

      Delete
    18. "This hangup that pequistes have about language and language alone is going to be their downfall."

      @Cat

      Even this "hang-up" about Language...as you say, is hardly sincere anymore. It's become a gimmick, an excuse, to give themselves permission to carry on with their xenophobia and their incessant blackmail of the RoC. How else could they pull it off otherwise?

      Pinstripes...funny you mention Sicilians....we are one of the many regions (from the old country) that have managed to inculcate our dialect in the generations that have followed. Those of us born and raised here spoke the dialect first, then, in my case, French, and when I was five, English because I went to English school. All our offspring speak our dialect (my sisters and brothers children, and some of us aren't even married to Sicilians), and guess what...when it's come to passing down our dialect...we accomplished this for 2 generations now, in a country where OTHER languages are the official languages, AND in a province that promotes language laws to ensure every vestige of whatever you speak, other than 'French', is stamped out. And this is not exclusive to Sicilians/ Italians, this is true of most Europeans who immigrated here.

      The protection of your language and your culture is YOUR responsibility, no one else's. The fact that you try and shove and impose both in such a morbid fashion on the rest of us WILL NOT ensure these survive. Stop reproaching everyone else for adopting/ preferring English as opposed to French and start making more babies and instilling a sense of pride and self-esteem for who you are in those coming after you, .....a much more organic and healthy approach. This will go so much further than silly language legislation borne out of spite.

      Delete
    19. Speaking of Irish culture, the OQLF harrassed McKibbin's Irish pub in Montreal in recent years for supposedly having too much English on decorative signs inside. Most of the signs were purchased in Ireland and were representative of Irish culture. The OQLF only backed down and scurried back under its rock after receiving negative exposure in the media, which was reminiscent of the 'pastagate' scandal but on a lesser scale.

      http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=9f338927-6f8a-4448-b9e6-6ac55239

      Delete
    20. @student
      We've talked before, many times, about how the notion that language=culture is a myth.
      It happens to be the dominant paradigm among Quebec's francophone intellectual group, but that doesn't make it correct.

      In fact you can argue that it's *because* of this insistence that language and culture are synonyms that the PQ and the separatist movement are decaying, as francophones become more successful, learn more languages, and the realization grows that there are multiple cultures within multiple languages, and that learning English doesn't transform you into the dreaded anglophone.

      Delete
  4. I do not agree with your comment about Jacques Parizeau being "actually inclusive". Even if one accepts that he was certainly frustrated and (perhaps) drunk when he made his (in)famous comment about "money and the ethnic vote" on the night of the 1995 referendum, we need only look a bit further to see that this statement did indeed represent his feelings. Recall that some time after the referendum (about six months, as I remember) he was giving a speech in Western Canada and reiterated his statement, this time adding that the Greeks, the Italians and the Jews were responsible for the referendum loss. This speech was planned, not off the cuff as on referendum night, so he was certainly sober. Finally, keep in mind the old saying that the only time you can really count on a politician telling the truth is after he has been defeated,

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "...we need only look a bit further to see that this statement did indeed represent his feelings."

      it didn't represent his feelings, it represented a fact. can't you acknowledge a fact, mate?

      Delete
    2. And yet trouble accepting facts seems to be a PQ strong suit.

      Like the fact that Quebecers aren't espousing rabid péquiste ideology any more than Harper's.

      Delete
    3. @appartachick

      what part of pq ideology to you think is "rabid"?

      also, you are totally wrong about pq and harper having the same support in quebec. one is polling in the low 30s and the other one in the low 10. factor of three. by jove were you off this time mate. even more than the usual.

      Delete
    4. what part of pq ideology to you think is "rabid"?
      the entire part where their program depends on lying in wait until they can hope to energize their base following a perceived slight or threat from English Canada -- this after picking fights on as many fronts as are convenient. Any country ultimately founded on such dubious and mercurial antecedents is a sad one indeed. If the PQ can't convince us positively, trying to convince us negatively is surely something an idealistic student such as yourself wouldn't condone... that'd make us a colony of angryphones AND fachophones (or possibly fasciophones).

      you are totally wrong about pq and harper having the same support in quebec.
      Read my words more carefully and don't construe meanings to fit your strawman. My comment was a qualitative observation on how the PQ has faced a brutal election rout by playing ugly identity politics at the same time as Harper himself can't get many of his own party's defining positions to resonate in a large section of the Quebec electorate.

      By jove, pseudo-Parizeau, at least the guy you caricature your written British accent on can speak, write, and understand English.

      Delete
    5. @apparatchik

      "If the PQ can't convince us positively, trying to convince us negatively is surely something an idealistic student such as yourself wouldn't condone..."

      they are a separatist party. they want to separate from canada. you have to expect them to highlight what doesn't work with canada. aksing the pq not to show what's wrong with the constraints canada puts on quebec's development is ridiculous. the convincing is both positive, freedom is good for you, and negative, remaining a canadian province is not in the best interet of the quebec population. and it's just fine for them to use both arguments. but that was funny mate, asking the pq to stop showing how canada's not good for quebec. haha. dream on.

      if you don't like negative arguments you should turn around and fight your federalist buddies. the only thing we here from them is how quebec's not good enough to do it. never a postitive thing about the joys of federalism and how only being a province rather than being a full fledge country is better for french canadians. 100% negativity.

      "Read my words more carefully and don't construe meanings to fit your strawman. (...) Harper himself can't get many of his own party's defining positions to resonate in a large section of the Quebec electorate."

      i'm not construing anything. but you do it again. you imply the pq's policies, like harper's, don't resonate well in quebec. while the charter of values had majority support, and overhelming majority amongst francophones and quebec separation resonates well with 40% of the population. no what you are doing here is trying to associate the pq with a the least liked political party around. it's the good old guilt by association sophism. sorry mate our community's readers are not that dumb to fall in your trap. you'll have to be more fancy in your smearing.

      Delete
    6. I have to shake my head to see student brimming with pride to see that the PQ scores 30% in the polls compared to the Tory scores 10%. Is it that not like priding one's team to lose "just" 4-1 while the other guy loses 9-0? A loss is a loss is a loss. The PQ is crushed and defeated and here I hope that it will just go the way of the Union Nationale and the ADQ.

      Delete
    7. @troy

      i'm not proud of the latest pq score. why are you putting such crap on my account mate? please stop it. if you can't win an argument honestly just refrain and watch a hockey game. at least you won't be damaging the internet's reputation.

      and then 30% is three times more than 10%. can't compare. and if you're wishing the pq to go the adq's way you are just wishing for a name change, right? you are very superficial troy.

      Delete
    8. I hope they stay obsolete and destroyed...not cause of their seppie agenda...but because they allowed themselves to lie, cheat and steel. A more duplicitous, unethical and hateful bunch, we have yet to witness. The Drainville's, Marois's and Lisee's of the world have no bloody business being in charge of anything. As far as braindrain is concerned, he gets caught with his pants down, and still he insists he did nothing wrong. But hey, maybe we ought to encourage they stick around after all, and still show their despicable faces...so that we are ensured the PQ never sees the light of day ...ever again.

      Delete
    9. @Student

      What we need to hear is why what isn't working in Canada would be working in a fully independent Quebec. Specifically.

      Delete
    10. @jay

      there's no garantee on anything jay, but having weight on all levers can only help. you shouldn't miss a bit of jflisee.org, he's very specific on everything. you'd like it.

      Delete
    11. Can somebody please help me translating student's rants? What it says makes neither sense nor coherence.

      Delete
    12. @troy

      hockey troy. hockey. the habs need you to watch them run around.

      Delete
    13. I-N-T-E-R-V-E-N-T-I-O-N.....she needs one ...FAST.

      Delete
    14. But Student, we already have hands on all levers. Even bigger levers.

      Delete
    15. @jay

      is that so? then why is it that quebeckers send half of their taxes to the federal government? they must be doing something aren't they?

      Delete
    16. Yes, they're being Canadians.

      Delete
    17. What does hockey have anything to do with the PQ's crushing defeat at the last election? And what kind of levers independent Quebec has that Canada does not?

      I can not help enjoying separatists keep on making noise about federal taxes while conveniently forgetting federal transfers and payments.

      Delete
    18. @jay

      "we already have hands on all levers."

      i don't get you mate. you are denying that the federal government has any power over quebec at all. why is it then that they need money from quebeck tax payers?!?

      Delete
    19. Not "any power" just what a majority of people find acceptable. And it will change over time, sometimes more, sometimes less. That's what makes it an association, a sovereignty-association, if you wish.

      It works for every other province and it works for Quebec, too.

      Delete
    20. @troy

      "What does hockey have anything to do with the PQ's crushing defeat..."

      nothing. i just thought the world would be a better place if you watched more hockey and commented less on this blog. saying 30% support and 10% support is the same lowers the bar troy. so does claiming that if the pq changed name like the adq did it would solve anything.

      "And what kind of levers independent Quebec has that Canada does not?"

      none. you misunderstood again troy. canada has all levers that quebec province doesn't have. independant quebec would get them all. it would be better.

      "I can not help enjoying separatists keep on making noise about federal taxes while conveniently forgetting federal transfers and payments."

      troy let's say i propose the following to you. give me half your income and i'll give you 10% more of that in goods and services of my choosing. would you take it? of course you wouldn't troy. do you now understand why your argument is not good troy?

      Delete
    21. Student, it isn't taxation without representation. You aren't giving the money to a government you have no part of. You don't want to be a part of it, we get that. What you haven't been able to explain is why someone who does want to be a part of the larger association (as well as a part of one of the parts, in this case the province of Quebec) would want to give it up.

      For people who don't feel that they are "giving away" some of their tax money but instead feel they are investing in a larger federation, why would they want to give that up?

      Delete
    22. This one I have to respond directly.

      student Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 10:12:00 PM EDT

      troy let's say i propose the following to you. give me half your income and i'll give you 10% more of that in goods and services of my choosing. would you take it?


      I am calling it. I accept your proposal. And if you still have any honor left, I do not think you back up from what you yourself wrote. I will give you 50% of my net income and you will give me in return goods and services in the value of that plus 10%, completely for my own welfare, benefits and interests. And you will have to provide those to me here, in Toronto.

      I think I get enough witnesses from the readers of this blog to finalize this arrangement legally. The Editor can be the arbitrator as he knows my personal information. So, please provide your details to the Editor so that we can go ahead with this deal.

      Can we start this arrangement next week, Monday 01 June 2014?

      Delete
    23. @jay

      "You aren't giving the money to a government you have no part of."

      right now quebeckers actually do give money to a government they have no significant part of. but even if they voted en masse for the winner quebec would still only be represented by a minority of members of parliement. it happened under the liberals and conservatives a few times. did things improve then? not at all. quite the opposite actually.

      of course it's difficult to convince people who are happy with the current quebec-canada situation. but i don't see many of these here though. durham, complicated, westerner, troy. only unhappy people. all these poor souls long for is a normal life in a normal country. won't happen in canada as long as quebec is part of it. quebec separating is their best hope.

      Delete
    24. @troy

      of course you're aware that i will be deciding what is your best interest, right?

      Delete
    25. student,

      Stop arguing. I already agree with your proposal. Let us get on to it. When can we meet to finalize? Do you have a Notary that I can contact?

      Delete
    26. @troy

      what's your income troy?

      Delete
    27. @Student

      "of course it's difficult to convince people who are happy with the current quebec-canada situation. but i don't see many of these here though."

      And you don't seem happy with the situation, either. So, it's going to be an interesting ten-twenty years.

      First there's the Liberal majority which will get five years. Do you hope they fail terribly and life gets worse for people in Quebec? An odd thing to hope for your neighbours, but if that does happen, and no other parties gain enough to split things up, maybe the PQ a gets a majority in 2019. Then they will have to spend a few years creating the right "circumstances," which they should be quite prepared for with all white papers issued and all questions answered (the way the Scots have done it) so there may be another referendum around 2020-2022?

      Then there will be the negotiations with Canada. Maybe that will happen quickly and easily and everyone involved will be happy with the results, say a year? 2023.

      Of course, the negotiations may bog down and after a couple of years reach a stalemate and some international court or UN resolution will be required, so maybe a couple years for that. 2025? 2030?

      Are you absolutely certain there's no other option to make peoples' lives in Quebec the best they can possibly be? Are you sure you're considering everything? It's quite important, for many people these will be the final twenty years of their lives.

      Delete
    28. student,

      Why are you still asking question on this board? I agree with your proposal that you yourself proposed. Now, provide the Editor with the contacts of your lawyer so that we can set up escrow. Rest assure, the Editor knows me so he can be the arbitrator in this case.

      Why does it matter how much I make? Are you afraid that you can not match the challenge that you yourself made?

      Delete
  5. I honestly never understood why Parizeaus comment was so reviled. He was speaking the truth..in reality they lost the referendum because of the allophone and anglophone vote. Most francophones voted yes. So why so much anger about a truthful statement? Its funny how we all complain about politicians being liars but when they try and speak the truth they often get crucified as being racist, intolerant or whatever.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "So why so much anger about a truthful statement?"

      angryphones will never miss an opportunity to gartuitously bat anything remotely connected with the pq. hey they went as far as claiming a secularity charter was racist! it's obvious they'll use anything to smear a separatist.logics and reason are not considered at all when there's a good bash at hand. parizeau famous referendum quote is a great example.

      Delete
    2. *facepalm*

      Because the drunken ethnic nationalist was baldly stating that the PQ considers anglophones and allophones to be second-class citizens of Quebec, whose ideas and votes aren’t “really” worth as much as those by francophones, even the federalist ones, and thus that they will never be considered by the PQ to be “real” Quebecers, no matter what they do or how many centuries they live here. He used “nous” in reference solely to francophones and not all Quebecers and even his top aide at the time, Jean-François Lisée, thought he was overly harsh and controversial, essentially committing political suicide.

      It was a graceless concession speech.

      Delete
    3. It was a graceless concession speech.

      Agreed. And it's perhaps only right that the visceral hatred and disdain espoused and expressed daily by the foot soldiers of the movement should have come out from none other than a longtime figure such as Parizeau on none other than that night.

      Other than vapidly repeating that the PQ and independence is are the best thing for for the Quebecois people, this movement has time and again shown itself to be characterized by planned episodes of manic elation, alternating with episodes of depression from slights sometimes real and often highly magnified.

      When on a high, it seeks to collectively imbue an ethnolinguistic group with a de facto exclusionary ideology by way of abnormal levels of happiness and energy. This leads that same group toward contemplating and making poor decisions -- largely because of the entire movement's superficial and unrealistic ideas as well as its poor regard of consequences.

      Then we wonder how it is that those of us who haven't drunk the Kool-Aid -- even though we're genuinely connected to the notion of working toward the good of this province -- express how much of the ideology espoused by the separatist movement impairs all of Quebec.

      Delete
    4. And speaking about the separatist movement and it's irrelevance...

      http://www.montrealgazette.com/entertainment/movie-guide/Macpherson+Xavier+Dolan+gets+right+about+young+Quebecers+politics/9871820/story.html

      Delete
    5. Imagine if Romney said he lost cause of black people

      Delete
    6. Xavier Dolan....

      Would that happen to be the same chap who wore a red square at his last Cannes appearance, and made videos (since removed) reminding Quebecers to vote September 4th 2012, all while claiming to be apolitical? Yikes.

      Maybe I'm cynical and this son of a perennially separatist artsy Egyptian immigrant father and French-Canadian-assimilated part Irish Catholic mother having most recently been identified as an admissions officer at a cegep located in the heart of Hochelaga-Maisonneuve might genuinely be emancipated from the separatist political correlation his family circles might otherwise take him in.

      Then again, I think back to an episode of TLMEP from the spring of 2012 where the three student leaders were on on the same night as Xavier Dolan himself and am not so convinced (fast forward to 5:30), even if the atmosphere was particularly prone to anti-Charest sloganeering.

      Or maybe Xavier's just too busy soaking up the international adulation, fame, and windfalls to care. Jean-Martin Aussant took a job in the mother of all English countries, after all. It's nice to see near-péquistes be as narcissistic, individualistic, and opportunistic as the very evil liberal federalist money-whores they love to vilify.

      Delete
    7. Xavy is just playing it quiet cause he doesn‘t want the next welfare cheque to get delayed.
      If he‘s so fuckin brilliant, why does his art need to be subsidized by the government?

      Delete
    8. @apparatchik

      it seems you are trying to prove the possibility that he might be a left leaning quebec separatist. just like millions of other quebeckers. so what?

      i know what you're after. you're giving a heads up to other angryphones that could be tempted to appreciate his art. you're doing your canadian nationalist deed by reminding our community that this genius is probably an enemy. doing so you are once again putting angryphone in a deadend situation. they will have to rally against him because praising him, like they would be tempted to do, may give an indirect push to separatists. too bad, after having to rally against their own children in spring 2012 because the pq was in, rally against secularity proponents last year even though they don't like to see religion back into public offices, now your followers will have to rally against the best film director around. shame on you mate.

      Delete
    9. You lost me at ...."it seems.." (yawn)

      Delete
    10. @montreal ville état

      i know. i had noticed you've got a short attention span. too bad. try meditation.

      Delete
    11. Yawn...yawnnnnnnnnnn.....mm that was a doozy!

      Wow pinstripes, ....you can do wonders for insomniacs. LOL

      Delete
    12. "why does his art need to be subsidized by the government?"

      Just like many businesses ran by millionaires...

      Delete
    13. it seems you are trying to prove the possibility that he might be a left leaning quebec separatist. just like millions of other quebeckers. so what?

      Because if he is, that means he hasn't got the balls to admit what he is in public, and prefers to act like he's beyond it when in fact he isn't. Which is duplicitous. And dishonest. And opportunistic. Just saying.

      i know what you're after. you're giving a heads up to other angryphones that could be tempted to appreciate his art.

      I'm sure they, just like their fâchophone counterparts trolling Vigile and other sites have access to Google. If anyone wants to appreciate Xavier Dolan's (or anyone else's) art, they can and certainly will -- irrespective of my opinions.

      you're doing your canadian nationalist deed by reminding our community that this genius is probably an enemy.

      Actually, I think he's more a fart in the wind that both the French- and English-language media have fallen over themselves to adulate and congratulate. And believe me, it cuts beyond language. I'm not a fan of his work any more than I am a fan of Margaret Atwood or Nickelback. What I AM calling out is what my bullshit meter has grounds to suspect are questionably noncommittal positions he claims to espouse.


      doing so you are once again putting angryphone in a deadend situation. they will have to rally against him because praising him, like they would be tempted to do, may give an indirect push to separatists.

      Once again, people have access to search engines and online material. If they want to know more, I certainly won't throttle their web traffic as they investigate.


      too bad, after having to rally against their own children in spring 2012 because the pq was in, rally against secularity proponents last year even though they don't like to see religion back into public offices, now your followers will have to rally against the best film director around

      For one thing, "best film director around" is an opinion you're allowed to hold, but one you must acknowledge is a subjective one. Second, the spring 2012 protests were part of a wider lefty/separatist push to kick Charest's government out of office, and despite that government's 9 year tenure and widespread unpopularity, Pauline couldn't muster a majority government (a telling commentary by the electorate indeed). Finally, the inflexibility and intransigence shown by the PQ during hearings on the Secularism Charter, coupled with Drainville's continued unrepentent stance while all but a handful of his own PQ colleagues now admit how not-really-urgent their whole shtick was, is another indication that this is not a fundamentally anglo/franco thing at all, but merely opposition to the actions of a perpetually defensive-on-the-offensive political organization.

      Also I find the suggestion that I have "followers" on a freely accessible blog a tad grandiloquent. At best, I have people who read what I write. This is neither Twitter nor a religious denomination.

      shame on you mate.
      Boo hoo. Why don't you just counter my criticism by starting a thread on how great Xavier Dolan is and we'll call it even?

      Delete
    14. @Student Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 7:27:00 PM EDT

      “An enemy” = Xavier Dolan?? That’s got to be the worst of all the crazytalk that you’ve ever posted here.

      Trying to link his art with separatism is really pathetic of you, mate. You actually think that federalists (francophones and anglophones alike) can’t appreciate his work? Or are you trying to say that leftists can’t be federalist? This is our home too, you know. If anything, it’s this attitude that you are wont to constantly display which might be turning people off from Quebec cinema, certainly not us anglo-Quebecers. We’re probably Quebec’s most important cheerleaders in the rest of the world.

      Your entire comment demonstrates your very unhealthy mental state. Thanks for posting it, though, since it only helps us in highlighting why your cause is lost.

      TL;DR: The PQ mania is absolutely crazy in this one. “Rabid” is indeed a very apt term.

      PS: Seriously, your paranoia is getting the better of you. Better look into it.

      Delete
    15. My point is that his statement was quite truthful. They lost the referendum because of the anglo and allophone vote. I dont think there is any disputing that. Isnt it obvious that the PQ only represents the pur laine francophones..I mean you all act shocked that he verbalized it. Its clear from the PQ policies that they are not an inclusive party so again why the shock.

      To me its a great example of why politicians never tell us the truth..because people sit on their high and mighty morality horse and pretend that our leaders should tell us fairy tales all the time. Parizeau just stated what we all knew but all were too scared to state because it wasnt politically correct.

      We all know what Harper thinks about Quebec..but instead he gets on tv and tells lies about how imnportant Quebec is to Canada and bla bla bla. We all know that he hates Quebec and ideally would boot the province out if he could easily. Again if he told the country what he really thinks then everyone would freak out.

      Whats wrong with Romney saying he lost because of the black vote if its true? If he truly lost because the vast majority of black people voted for Obama then its a truthful statement..why is that considered racist? Our politicians lie to us day in and day out because we somehow think that its better to pretend than to be honest. I would love a politician who came out and said we our within a few years of bankruptcy and we will have to suffer through 5-10 years of very difficult times to get out of this hole. Its the truth but the electorate cant handle the truth..


      Delete
    16. @complicated

      What we expect from our politicians is a bit of good taste and a little class, they call this...Decorum, especially when they are bowing out in defeat. In a way, this as well, contributes to their Legacy.

      Of course everyone knows that they lost cause of the "ethnic" vote bla bla, but why did he "need" to state the obvious? On television no less...while admitting defeat? Why did he need to point this out, at that opportunistic moment? Isn't that the real question?...Ah yes to justify losing, it was someone else's fault...."but where's the problem, he was just stating the truth after all". How convenient of you..complicated...to try and reduce this to something...elementary...but it is not that simple, because behind what he said, lurks the "intention" of what he said, and it escaped no one. Parasite made the statement out of rage, not because it was true...(that it was true was incidental). He was pointing the finger ..on purpose, at "les autres", so seppies and the silent majority as well, to a certain extent, could all collectively feel the bitterness, anger and disappointment he was feeling and consequently never forget who stood between them and their "nation". At that moment he deemed and declared "the others" personaS-non-grata. A cheap divisive tactic to remind everyone that there is THEM and there is US. It was meant to hurt and wound and further perpetuate Spite. THAT is why what he said is still unforgivable, to this day...AND you fucking know it.

      Delete
    17. Isnt it obvious that the PQ only represents the pur laine francophones

      Yes and that gets to the crux of my problem with French-Canadian nationalism as a whole, and said nationalism hijacking the administration of an entire province to suit its own exclusive ends.

      Government has an obligation to govern for the good of ALL the people and not just defining one group of people (in this case ethnic French-Canadians living in Quebec) as the only ones whose "interests need defending". While I'm not a fan of contemporary English-Canadian nationalism (not a fan of Tim Horton's kitschy patriotism, nor of Don Cherry's moronic tirades), there is, on the whole, less ethnicist triumphalism and protectionism these days in the political discourse coming from English-Canadian sources than from their French-Canadian counterparts. Imagine a mainstream party today, federal or provincial, anywhere in Canada, whose stated dogma is centered on promoting the primacy of White, Anglo-Saxon, Protestants to the express and explicit detriment of any other group. Now imagine such a party forming repeated majority governments.

      The actions of the Orange Order has been rightly vilified by French-Canadian writers. But those actions are the stuff of history, while the nationalist French-Canadian reaction to them remains all too current.

      Delete
    18. @r.s

      "An enemy” = Xavier Dolan?? That’s got to be the worst of all the crazytalk that you’ve ever posted here. Trying to link his art with separatism is really pathetic of you..."

      talk to aparatchik he's the one who singled out xavier dolan for his "probable" red square separatist agenda. not me. i agree with you it was quite "pathetic" from aparatchik.

      Delete
    19. @apartchick

      "Because if he is, that means he hasn't got the balls to admit what he is in public, and prefers to act like he's beyond it when in fact he isn't."

      after scraping all the inaneness from your last comment i think we're left with this. you rile dolan for lying about his convictions. it can't be the red square thing as he wore it before the entire universe in cannes 2012. so it's down to hiding his probable separatist inclination isn't it? ok now it's time to substantiate. do you have more than his dad's opinion on this? and do you also have a few quotes from dolan where he obviously hides stuff from you? you have neither. therefore your argument is weak. mine is much better: you are putting this "duplicity" tag on him to make sure angryphones start hating him as soon as possible in order to minimize dolan's positive impact on quebec society. petty shit mate.

      Delete
    20. "and do you also have a few quotes from dolan where he obviously hides stuff from you? you have neither. therefore your argument is weak. mine is much better: you are putting this "duplicity" tag on him to make sure angryphones start hating him as soon as possible in order to minimize dolan's positive impact on quebec society. petty shit mate."

      Wow...you sound like you're hanging on to this guy ..for dear life.... to make a point? What was the point? Lol...A little desperate there....

      R.S is right...."you better look into that" lol....the paranoia too. Lol

      Delete
    21. @montreal ville etat

      you just quoted my point. your short attention span is a big constraint isn't it? here is my point once again. appartchik is putting this "duplicity" tag on dolan to make sure angryphones start hating him as soon as possible in order to minimize dolan's positive impact on quebec society.

      don't you agree?

      Delete
    22. Still hanging on huh? Lol...u need an intervention, lol...OMG...it isn't even funny.

      Delete
    23. appartchik is putting this "duplicity" tag on dolan to make sure angryphones start hating him as soon as possible in order to minimize dolan's positive impact on quebec society.

      That's your (incorrect) interpretation. I just happen to think the fawning adulation being paid to this 25 year-old twirp is completely unwarranted. As for your desperate attempt to get traction for your flaccid argument about my getting the mob of evil anglo villagers with pitchforks riled up against Dolan, all I do is shake my head.

      By the way, before you tar and feather me with the evil-partisan-unfounded-ready-to-taint-everyone-with-the-guilt-by-association brush, consider that there are people on the other side of the ideological fence who have come to the same conclusion as me as to his barely veiled political orientation.

      Delete
  6. Who knows? Maybe they have learned something since their defeat at the polls and hence will return as a kinder and gentler political party inclusive of all linguistic and minority groups working together for a happy and prosperous Quebec province within Canada. And I am not saying this just because I forgot my meds today. Ha Ha Ha Ha.

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  7. I think the reality is that the PQ has already been 'blown up'.
    After Boisclair stunk up the joint and led the PQ to third place, the party turned to Marois to fix things -- and the dame de beton turfed the hard-line separatists and decided to push the ethnic nationalism angle, using Lisee's books as inspiration and giving Drainville free rein.

    Well, after 18 months of power, we know how they messed up.

    So the question is, with ethnic superiority that costs people jobs off the table, and separatism off the table, what else does the PQ have to offer?

    The only possible answer is not one that the actual card-carrying members of the PQ will entertain for even a second.

    The PQ can rebuild as much as possible, but Quebecers have no interest in the party's core mission.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "...and separatism off the table..."

      famous last words. have you counted how many times canadian nationalists living in quebec have proclaimed the end of quebec french canadian's will to take control of their destiny? it's many. the truth is it's not off the table. how can you risk your credibility with such an obvious lie when recent polls have shown independance support still to hover around 40%? that means it's around 50% among francophones. it's not "off the table".

      Delete
    2. @student

      You're a liar. Back up your claims with some data. If you can't provide any FACTS get lost.

      Delete
    3. @jf

      your comment is contradictory. if you claim i'm a liar it means you have facts that prove me wrong don't you? then why do you ask me for data?!? it's like if i wrote you're ugly! and then i ask for a picture to see. absurd isn't it?

      anyways, here's your data http://tinyurl.com/nbjyg4o . first graph. now tell me quebec's independance is "off the table".

      Delete
    4. @student
      Whoa there. You have, once again, pulled that same trick that separatists always pull: confusing separation with respect for french canadians.
      The two issues are not identical, which is why separation is a dead movement.
      I have argued (and I'm not alone in this) in saying that the separatist movement piggybacked on the coattails of the francophone rights movement.
      And since, in 2014, it is ludicrous to pretend that francophones are not masters of their own destinies, the PQ/BQ/all pol. parties that espouse separatism are dying.


      BTW, you may want to read the rest of that post by Lisée, since he essentially says that sovereignty is dead because it's a mealy-mouthed meaningless term, and he says that separation is a dying issue.

      Even that same post, a couple pictures down, shows support for separation is is on a long-term slide and was at 32% earlier this year -- or about 10 points lower than you'll admit to.

      Delete
  8. The modern day Quebec family is taxed out, tapped out and is struggling to keep their heads above water. The reality is that in this day and age, people will vote for their economic best interests rather than for some sense of duty to a higher calling (i.e. The church or a tub thumping nationalist Québécois politician). The PQ offered nothing new as far as the economy was concerned. Their top down State interventionist economic model is a relic from another lifetime. Their obsession with language (Bill 14) and their dastardly attempt to divide the population between Pur Laine and immigrant Quebecers literally blew up in their face and didn't have the popular support and traction they had hoped. I don't see them ever becoming a force to be reckoned with again. The CAQ would be well advised to act like the official opposition because I don't think the PQ is next in line to lead this Province anymore.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Andrew Coyne: Maxime Bernier hammers home truths about Quebec; National Post May 21, 2014

    http://tinyurl.com/o93nopm

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It will be interesting to witness, going forward, where this type of rhetoric will go. Hopefully it opens the floodgates for owning up to the truth, and maybe the silent majority won't be so silent anymore.

      Delete
    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    3. As expected, Le Devoir provided a uniformly negative interpretation to Maxime Bernier’s commentary. Surprisingly, it cited Stéphane Dion. Unsurprisingly, the PQ’s former Finance Minister, Nicolas Marceau, called him “colonisé” and said Quebec is not begging, merely “asking for what it is owed”.

      http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/408681/l-anglais-fait-partie-de-l-identite-quebecoise-dit-maxime-bernier

      PS: Anonymous, the blog rules as stated at the top of every page ask you to provide some username and not post as Anonymous, so people can reply properly.

      Delete
    4. It's funny but words like "colonisé" and even "angryphone" have become shear rhetoric eliciting the same effect as door and chair.

      Delete
    5. Interesting how polemical monikers like colonisé and angryphone, which are common currency in trashy comments sections of separatist High-Mass blogs and sites, creep into the language of mainstream politicians who like to claim they're above the noise and fray and who like to remind us that extremists in their midst don't speak for péquistes as a whole.

      As we say in Quebec French: yeah right.

      Delete
    6. This would be the same former PQ Finance Minister who blatantly lied to Quebecers about achieving a balanced budget when the PQ was dithering about whether to call an election in late 2013, only to suddenly “discover” that in fact he had a $2.5 Billion dollar deficit (and even that figure was under-reported). The same numb-nut who proposed a pamphlet of a “budget” mere days before calling an election.

      Nicolas Marceau = No Credibility Whatsoever.

      Delete
  10. The PQ is a fucked up cult.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Oh look! I commented in the last post
    about defeated PQ candidate Thierry St. Cyr having been recruited by a wind turbine firm that he was involved in subsidizing only six months ago. It turns out that his hiring is now the object of an official complaint to the Ethics commission. The firm’s factory, which is a corporate welfare recipient, is still closed, needing $85 million in governmental aid for a $135 million project.

    http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2014/05/23/rer-hydro-recrute-dans-les-partis-politiques

    ReplyDelete
  12. Gallagher “rewards” Tokarski after the Habs’ Game 3 win at Madison Square Garden, NYC. The Toker is a good sport about it:
    http://youtu.be/ZIRIiIWB0qo

    #TrustInDustin

    ReplyDelete
  13. http://www.cjad.com/cjad-news/2014/05/20/sergakis-goes-to-court-over-bell-centre-beer-sales

    What an idiot... Biting the hand that feeds him...

    ReplyDelete
  14. As Apparatchik has astutely pointed out, how very interesting it is to see that another of Quebec’s Irish and Arab descendants should suddenly be claimed by charter-espousing separatists as being a proud “Québécois”, given that he has an Irish mother and an Egyptian father. Apparently, this “pure laine” pride business only goes back so far whenever anyone has had some measure of success in the former colonial master, France. Meanwhile, other anglophone Quebecers whose roots go back over a quarter of a millennium here are treated as pariahs by separatists.

    Deux poids, deux mesures…

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Parlant de whitewash...Geneviève Dolan n'est peut-être qu'à moité ou à un quart irlandaise.

      Mais pour ne surtout pas nuire à votre mauvaise foi, c'est beaucoup plus percutant de parler d'elle comme étant une "Irish mother" (bien qu'elle n'ait jamais vécu en Irlande) plutôt qu'une Québécoise.

      Delete
    2. Arbre généalogique Xavier et Geneviève Dolan
      http://www.perche-quebec.com/files/xavier-dolan/individus/xavier-dolan.htm

      Delete
    3. @r.s

      this "pure laine pride business" is your fabrication mate. of course by claiming separatists care about blood purity it's easier for you to portray them as racists and yourelf as a victim. the truth, however, is another thing. falardeau put it best "que tu sois blanc, noir, bleu, mauve, jaune avec des pitons, j’m’en sacre ! tout ce que je veux savoir c’est si t’es de notre bord. pis si t’es de notre bord, t’es mon frère,..."

      Delete
    4. Yes..this is why they came up with the charter and divided the masses, cause they wanted EVERYONE on their side, oh yeahhhh, that makes perfect sense...lol.
      (I think I gave myself a headache from the serous eye-rolling).

      Delete
    5. @montreal ville état

      of course they wanted everyone on their side. doesn't every political party want this?!?

      Delete
    6. Well duh......"l'union fait la force".....except for a dumbass party like the PQ who introduces a piece of legislation to purposely DIVIDE the masses and create conflict and drama re: their mouvement indépendentiste.

      Keep defending that broke-ass quebec brand of yours pinstripes...(yawn).

      Delete
    7. Falardeau wasn't exactly a paragon of interracial acceptance when he referred to David Suzuki as "a bearded jap."

      Delete
    8. @durham

      what's wrong? suzuki doesn't have a beard?

      Delete
    9. @student
      Holy fuck you are a real piece of work.


      Delete
    10. "of course by claiming separatists care about blood purity it's easier for you to portray them as racists and yourelf as a victim"

      To get to the true nature of what these "separatist" leaders and their lackeys in the "artistic" community really are, you have to listen to or read people like Thomas Sheridan.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95bMEOwOxbA

      Delete
    11. @Sébastien

      Paco Lebel ‏@PacoLebel
      Quelqu'un peut m'expliquer pkoi @Mariodumont prononce @xdolan comme s'il était un Irlandais?

      Xavier Dolan ‏@XDolan
      @PacoLebel @mariodumont parce que je suis un irlandais mais que moi je le prononce a la française ;)

      Delete
    12. Can't help but notice that exchange began less than 6 hours ago.
      Wonder whether it's a coincidence or if Paco Lebel actually stopped by this part of the web...

      Delete
  15. Sorry, Editor, but I still found Parasite's crack at the podium back on Referendum Night then, now and always unpardonable. It is when one is, to quote your expression, in the cups, that we find out what people are really made of because control of one's subconscious becomes less possible when one is controlled by alcohol, or other mind-altering substances.

    Mel Gibson, a chip off the old block, like his old man, is a rabid Jew-hater. This was proof positive when he was aprehended behind the wheel of his vehicle in the cups. While he still get acting gigs (namely if he produces his own movies), no self-respecting Jew would dare put a dollar towards his productions.

    As for Parasite, weeks later at some sort of political junket out in Alberta, he embellished to whom he was pertaining, and that was Jews, Greeks and Italians. His words, not mine. That skank came from quite a pedigree and made a mongrel of himself, by himself, and has nobody and nothing to blame but himself for what he uttered that fateful night and himself only.

    Period.

    Case closed.

    ReplyDelete
  16. It has been almost 2 months since the PQ defeat, and its members have finally stopped crying. Deep within the PQ bunker, the members are working on their new strategy to win over the population. This new strategy is called the " Bra strategy ". Once details are made public, it is guaranteed to uplift Quebecers and make them want to separate. As one anonymous member is rumoured to have said, " Hey, we're serious about this. We're not just a bunch of boobs you know ".

    Sorry, but I find it difficult to be serious on Monday.

    ReplyDelete