Monday, August 12, 2013

Montreal's Extrajudicial Police

extrajudicial [ˌɛkstrədʒuːˈdɪʃəl]
adj
1. outside the ordinary course of legal proceedings 
2. outside the usual procedure of justice; legally unwarranted.

This week we heard the story of Montreal political activist Katie Nelson, who is being targeted and harassed by Montreal police in a story that should have garnered more attention and public outrage.

Sadly the story was largely dismissed and mostly ignored  because most of us have little sympathy or use for this dedicated anarchist.

It's too bad, I always thought that the hallmark of a great democracy was the commitment of the majority to support and defend those wronged, notwithstanding their political opinions and actions which may be in direct opposition to popular opinion. 
"Katie Nelson is a twenty-one year old Anarcho-Syndicalist, insurrectionist, and anti-fascist, organizing against neo-nazism and combating Police repression. She was raised on the Mexican Border in Texas, moved back to Alberta at eight years old, and last year moved to Montreal to support the student strike and never left. To date she has racked up almost $6,000 in fines, almost all to do with peaceful participation in protests." Link
 It seems that Nelson started a Facebook page documenting what she and others deemed to be police brutality during the student protest last Spring and published photos of 'offending' individual officers as well as some contact information.
As you can imagine, the police didn't take kindly to the publicity and embarked on a campaign of pure harassment and intimidation in a juvenile act of reprisal.
"Katie Nelson says she’s been ticketed so many times, Montreal police have stopped asking for her address when handing her a citation. They know it by heart. The 21-year-old Concordia student racked up over $6,500 in fines during the 2012 student protests. The litany of charges include jaywalking, swearing, spitting on the ground, flicking cigarette ashes and “emitting a noise” in public.
One ticket reads: “for having professed insults in a park.” That $146 fine came after Nelson apparently said “bastard” in Émilie-Gamelin Park.
At first, Nelson found her predicament funny.

“I actually hung (the tickets) up on the fridge at my apartment. It was kind of a joke,” Nelson told The Gazette. “Eventually we ran out of room on the fridge.”
Nelson isn’t laughing anymore.
Now she’s busy looking for a lawyer willing to work her case pro-bono and attempting to work out a schedule that won’t involve her having to go to court hundreds of times over the next few years. On Wednesday, the 21-year-old was in court to contest her spitting charge and she’ll appear before a judge on Aug. 23 to fight another citation.
Read more and watch a video news story : Meet the Montreal protester with $6,500 in fines after she outed cops for misconduct
There are those of you reading this blog who might say good on the police because she deserved a little payback.
If you believe that you should be ashamed.

Katie Nelson is in fact an avowed anti-'everything' and has crossed the line more often than not. I don't agree with just about everything she stands for, but as the quotation inaccurately attributed to Voltaire goes;
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

As I researched Ms. Nelson across the net, I was saddened to learn of the poor state of mind of this obsessive-compulsive activist. It's hard to comprehend such a young, brilliant, articulate and energetic sole descending  into such a dark and forbidding place.
Read this disturbing article written by her, to get a limited understanding of what she is about.
"Letter from a young activist on her 21st birthday
I want to thank the people who have supported me this past year. It is for your courage and trust that I am grateful today. I didn't think I would ever live to be twenty-one. For me, this is an unbelievably impossible day, one that five years ago, I didn't think I would ever see and that a month ago I didn't think I would live to experience. But despite every dark hour and every night that I got close, I am here. And for now, I'm not going anywhere.
So if I don't live for the twenty-second birthday, remember my only request: What you are fighting is the most honest and amazing thing, and no matter how many people tell you different, you are doing the right thing. So take this system by the balls and burn the mother fucking city to the ground. 
In love and in rage, -Katie." Read the entire piece 
To get her point of view, read this; Eyewitness account of Montreal police repression of monthly bike ride

Now I want to preface this next part with a defence of the Montreal police for their actions in relation to the student street actions in opposition to tuition hikes.
It is true that the police crossed the line, using methods like 'kettling' and preemptive arrest and over-exuberant arrests, but harsh times call for harsh measures.
The students were determined to cause mayhem, for no other reason but because they could.
There was a distinct possibility that the police would 'lose' the streets and that would have brought on even more repression with authorities forced to invoke Martial law, akin to what happened in the October crisis.
The students didn't get what they deserved, they got what they wanted, violent confrontation. 

So I'm not going to take police to task over their harsh methods in putting down the student insurrection and as for the students, including Ms. Nelson, I've no sympathy for the bruises, bumps, fines and tickets they incurred in the act of rioting or demonstrating illegally.

That being said, this current campaign of harassment against Ms. Nelson is completely unwarranted, immoral and patently illegal.
There is no 'greater good' to be argued and the police action against her should be seen for what it is, an illegal action of intimidation and harassment.

I would hope that the police chief of Montreal would rein in his activist cops, but alas, every Montreal police chief in the last twenty years has been held hostage by the policeman's union, who actually rule the roost.

Now that the story of this harassment has become public it remains to be seem what remedial action will be taken.
I would hope the Quebec Justice Minister, looking down from his office in Quebec City will call the Montreal police to order and demand a return to the strict rule of law.
The extrajudicial punishment meted out by Montreal cops, tolerated and perhaps encouraged by superiors cannot be acceptable in a truly democratic and free society.

Last week a Montreal man was given a $147 ticket for sitting under a tree in a Montreal park, which is supposedly forbidden.
The policeman explained that since ticketing was a standard operating procedure for keeping vagrants from sleeping in the park, it was only fair to ticket 'regular' people once in a while... Link

And so Montreal police have an arsenal of 'ticket' weapons to be used against those they don't like.
Spitting, swearing in public, sitting on the grass and jaywalking are but a few nonsensical offences used by police to harass those they don't like.

If all else fails, our glorious police will stop and search people based only on their skin colour, as every Black Montrealer can attest.
Montreal remains one of the few cities where 'driving while Black' is automatic probable cause for an identification check. All of this, completely reprehensible and entirely illegal.

I don't see many people sympathetic to the likes of Katie Nelson, but we should be.
Tolerating this type of extrajudicial behaviour by our police diminishes us all.

An ex-assistant director of the SPVM once told me that the public has no problem when police use extrajudicial force on criminals and as long as those measures are used against those who 'deserve it,'
well, ....nudge, nudge, wink, wink, let's all pretend we didn't see it or know about it.
A heinous dereliction of civic and social duty.

I hope Katie Nelson finds a sympathetic lawyer to take her case and sues the pants off the Montreal police. She might get a big payday.
While police spokesmen stonewall us and tell us with a straight face that nothing untoward is going on or that they can't comment on the case, that baloney won't stand up in court in front of a judge who has heard this type of bullshit before.
Any judge worth his salt will see the situation for what it is and will no doubt come down hard on the police.
Judges generally don't like the police using the courts as a weapon against its own citizens and actually consider themselves guardians of the justice system.

Read some of my previous posts on the Montreal Police;
Montreal Police Harass Entire Black Community 
Montreal Police Go Beyond Racial Profiling 
Montreal Police Get the Respect They Deserve

And so I defend Katie Nelson on principle and I hope you do too.
Why?......  Because I am reminded and live by this quote;
The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing
...Edmund Burke

94 comments:

  1. LD

    She's certainly a piece of work. Very gutsy but naive. From what I gather she posted photos of police officers in uniform on a Facebook page that was critical of their tactics during the Student demonstrations. While her actions may be inspired by noble reasons she should know better than to mess with the police. They have more pull than the mob and more muscle. It's best not to cross swords with them unless you have the means to defend yourself.

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  2. LD: Congratulations! You just proved the Edmund Burke saying above to be true.

    Yes, sadly, I know of a case of police harassment personally. A fellow I went to high school with getting fined for parking his bicycle on the grass and getting fined. He ignored the fine at first, then got hit for a fine about ten times the original fine. He eventually paid it in a number of instalments, but somehow the record of his doing this got "lost". On another occasion, the police stopped him, according to court records he never paid the fine and the officer who learned of this slammed him against his car, cuffed him and took him away. Sadly he didn't retain proof to show he paid the fine.

    Editor: You forgot about that report about the short fat-assed lady officer aka "sept-deux-huit" and her trigger-happy pepper spray finger. Whatever happened to that fat assed butch?

    To show I'm playing both sides of the ledger, I'm disturbed by the Toronto police killing a fellow who had a good reputation by shooting him nine times for wielding a pen knife. Considering the fact the bus or street car was emptied, they could have easily prevented a brutal ambush like that. Right now the perpetrator officer has been suspended with pay pending an investigation. That he was suspended so fast was unusual, but the public outcry was so great.

    I only hope Ms. Nelson and the family of the assassinated young man (yes, assassinated) do get to see justice. The young man certainly won't!

    Finally, it's disgusting that the union seems to run the show, so that shows why Quebec runs backwards. The unions are anti-business, the rental board is anti-landlord, and the French speakers are anti-English. Ms. Nelson is an English speaker. Even the hick Confederate States of the south have advanced better than this pack of bumpkins this century--at long last! We just began the 3rd Millennium and these hicks are struggling to start the 2nd!

    Howard Galganov was right at the CRITIQ meeting back in the spring when he stated the French hate the English. If this isn't so, why do 99% of the Francophone population fully support anti-English language legislation, or sit with their thumbs up their rectums while each successive government, so-called federalist or separatist, tighten the language screws?

    No Ed, please not another rebuttal how Philippe Couillard M.D. is going to be the saviour of the minorities--PU-LEEZE!

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    Replies
    1. Bang on Mr S. The french hate anything not "french" and that is a fact, and not just in Quebec. This same mentality is gong on all over the country, NB, Ontario... These people are hateful bigots...more proof below.

      Enjoy the latest video exposing this phony bilingual (french) scam...and if care please pass it on.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZz61S3sTA8

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    2. Yes, JW, I saw this sometime ago. For quite a while I forgot about the rants, but two were created since I last looked. They're very well done and very accurate.

      Delete
    3. James and other readers: Here is a brilliant mockery of yes, the long-passé Pastagate, but Rex Murphy's use of superlatives is second to none in this country (Canada, that is, not just Quebec), so for those who never saw his commentary, it's worth the three minutes out of your life.

      Here's that little cochon of an officer a.k.a. «sept-deux-huit» and her little piece of infamy. Betcha buncha blintzes «sept-deux-huit» (this one with subtitles never lost a dime of her pay, and probably never received anything more than a reprimand.

      Oh, and now I give Ontario the edge for action. The Ontario government has gone out and hired the recently retired Chief Justice of Ontario to investigate the shot young man on the street car recently. As usual, Ontario 1 Quebec 0.

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    4. @ Mr.Sauga.

      Took a look at the Rex Murphy video about a past controversy. Thanks for posting it.

      I like his point, to paraphrase him, that it is unfathomable that someone would go to an Italian restaurant to order Italian food and be served by an Italian waiter and then go ahead and complain that pasta is on the Italian menu!

      LMAO

      Delete
  3. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTMonday, August 12, 2013 at 8:09:00 AM EDT

    Maybe if she followed the law she would be OK. Anarchist, syndicalist, student supporter. How naive of her. Way too much attention on her. If she followed the law she would not have been ticketed. Why hasn't she paid her tickets? Pretty dumb of you Editor to pay her attention.
    Total waste of my time here today.

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    Replies
    1. "If she followed the law she would not have been ticketed". Have you ever sat on something on the public domain that's not a bench? Did you know that this is often interpreted by police (when people they don't like do it) as "misuse of the public furniture"; $320 fine! Yes, they used that on her for sitting on a piece of concrete and others were doing the same thing at the same time and they were not ticketed.

      She got a "having poured a liquid on the public domain" ticket for spitting which of course is idiocy as the only way you spill saliva on the public domain is by emptying a spittoon! I think you should go over the article again where you will notice that the author is correctly concluding that the police use these things on "people they don't like". So you endorse this idea that the police have the right to attack "people they don't like"? Is it because she is a person "you don't like"?

      P-3 Article 6 Paragraph 2 bans "swearing" in the park, and she said "Bastard"? Really! That's considered to be swearing? The best thing I heard her say was "You're just a shell of a man!" to a policeman who I think later that evening picked her up but I wasn't there for that.

      Katie is lucky though to have never been hit with Article 129 of the Criminal Code, the catch-all "interference with the police" charge that says, amongst other things, that if the cops order you to take down a knife-wielding maniac, and you don't do it, that's a crime!

      Delete
  4. No sympathy from me. Live by the sword, die by the sword. I would rather have Ms. Nelson restrained with the legal problems than having her and her peers disrupting the daily lives of ordinary people. I hope that she will realize what hole she has dug herself into when she graduates and looking for work, and has a background check done on her before getting hired.

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  5. I don't know who you are, but I want to find you and I want to kiss you on the mouth.
    This is by far one of the best articles I have read on the whole situation.

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  6. I'm thinking "good on the police" and I'm not the least bit ashamed.
    If she was fighting for something worth while, a noble cause maybe, I might see things differently.

    This is just another Yalda Khadir who thinks she can do whatever she wants and that she's entitled to everything without having to do any work.

    The students were not protesting with some humble goal, they were doing the work of the unions and the PQ. Tell me, why weren't they out protesting after the PQ raised (sorry, "indexed") their tuition fees? Is it simply because it's too cold to protest in winter? I think not.

    All that aside, I know nothing about her story and I'm not the least bit interested, but you said she posted private information about police officers online. I'm no fan of the cops, but any reasonable person should realize that's a very stupid idea. It's not a joke, it's not cute, it's not funny, it's dangerous plain and simple.

    In the end, its us taxpayers who end up paying for all this. Enough is enough.

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    Replies
    1. It is pretty hard to have much sympathy for her but I feel there is guilt on both sides. The police have the authority to make her life miserable for miniscule things but she has no authority to retaliate against them except for the courts which can be totally overwhelming and very, very expensive. I feel she hopped on the bandwagon solely for attention. But Quebecer is also correct; we taxpayers are paying for these silly students to protest and cause trouble (plus cost money) for a lack of something better to do with their lives.

      Delete
    2. Editor, you might want to review your post about the Khadir family:
      http://nodogsoranglophones.blogspot.ca/2012/06/khadirs-three-generations-of-nutters.html

      You might feel "ashamed" of what you said, after all poor Yalda was probably also being "harassed" by the police.

      Delete
  7. Some good news for the seppies:
    http://www.lapresse.ca/le-soleil/actualites/education/201302/03/01-4617944-le-bilinguisme-gagne-du-terrain-dans-le-roc.php
    Gosh, let's see what trash they bring up now. Plains of Abraham, Montfort Hospital, etc. We should have a new rule - nothing to be brought up that is over one year old.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ...or maybe we can begin by having separatists bring up stuff from the 1600's, 1700's and 1800's, as if they were there!! LMAO!!!

      Delete
    2. I mean **NOT** bring up stuff from the 1600's, etc; lol.

      Delete
  8. The Editor quotes Katie Nelson:

    "So take this system by the balls and burn the mother fucking city to the ground."

    Then the Editor appeals to us to have sympathy for her because what is being done to her is, technically, illegal. Well, perhaps, but I have only X number of minutes in the day and despite Ms. Nelson being harassed by low enforcement I don't seem to be able to muster any feeling of concern for her.

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    Replies
    1. OH FOR CHRIST'S SAKE TONY, remember this! You can't set a double standard, or you're just as hypocritical as the yoyos in this video.

      Are we a free country, or not? Choose whatever definition of "country" you want!

      Delete
  9. Well, well, another seppie that is bilingual and educated is moving from la belle province this time to England. Imagine that; being bilingual is an asset for job opportunities and more money even if the family needs him to stay home more. Tsk, Tsk.
    http://www.cjad.com/CJADLocalNews/entry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10577210&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

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    Replies
    1. The PQ leaders arn;t interested in living the life of the independent PQ peasant post sovereignty.

      He's got options. If he can;t get chauffeured around in a limousine and have people kiss his ass in Montreal, he's going to go to some other city that will oblige.

      Morally corrupt politicians.

      You'd think he'd want to waste a couple years on a sovereignty propaganda film or book if he had any support for the cause beyond his own self interest.

      Like most of them, the game is being on top. What you say or how you act the people don;t pay much attention. The real levers for getting ahead arn;t with voters. It's satisfying various "quebec interests" who in turn help keep them in power.

      The problem with all the electoral parties we have now is they are all financially bankrupt and ave no idea how to operate in a world where their income is 10% of their expenses.

      Something will have to give somewhere again. It's not going to be possible to elect competent people on budgets of $100 per donation etc.

      If parties have no money to spend on advertising then you can;t have the TV networks dictating the terms of the "debates". The "debates" among the 3 chosen parties will be the end of democracy.

      This is the elephant in the room with the lack of election being called.

      If they all had war chests stuffed with cash from quebec construction we would have had an election already.

      Delete
    2. Yeah, I agree. None of them have the money to campaign so I don't know where that leaves us. I hope to heaven's that some of the TV networks and radio shows will allocate free time for some of the events that need to take place but I won't bet on it. The liberals are going to have to launch a membership drive for sure - I just don't know how they will publicize it.

      Delete
    3. Isn't it ironic that Jean-Martin Aussant, ex hardcore "I want separatism now" leader of Option Nationale has to go to England to get a job?

      It doesn't bode well for the economic prospects of an independant Quebec, eh?

      @Cutie:

      Just because someone has a university education, doesn't make them intelligent per se. Obviously, employers in Quebec know that he isn't fit for a finance job because he thinks Quebec would be financially better off independant. It shows a lack of analytical ability. No use hiring someone like that.

      Obviously a company in England might not know his shortcomings, which is why he was able to get hired.

      I wonder if he will only work in French. LOL

      Delete
    4. lol - you're probably right Roger - didn't look at it that way. And England is so close to his heartthrob France - surprisingly he didn't get an offer from there either - what could that message be? They too see through his "intelligence" and/or they don't want to be saddled with yet another shit disturber from quebec that will be expecting financial aide from their Motherland should they leave Canada - lol - and of course they have lots of money to lend the new bankrupt quebec from their already bankrupt country. Fools.

      Delete
    5. It's hard to imagine the amount of pride (or outright greed and naked ambition) that it took for him to move to England to pursue his career.

      He should be ashamed of himself for going outside "La Francophonie" for work or education. I mean what else if the francophonie relationships for if not to work overseas amongst your linguistic peers.

      Save that job in London for somebody from Moscow. Somebody already linguistically impure for a vile and dirty place known for colonial oppression.

      If some random separatist leader blowhard leaves Quebec for a job, people might get the wrong idea about all the jobs that our overtaxed, over-regulated union business environment.

      The key problem is Jean-Martin isn;t willing to be a union bus driver for the STM, and that's about the only jobs hiring here.

      For every street and bridge the city blocks creating "bus lanes" that few use they make another dozen STM jobs and another hundred construction "jobs". 168 hours in a week for public raid construction to happen. They only work 35 hours a week we work.

      Major cities except Detroit don;t run like that.

      It's also hugely beneficial to Quebec gasoline tax revenue.

      Montreal keeping Montreal moving and fed. Beyond that everything is imported and slowly drains us of our money and jobs.

      Just remember, nothing says social media friendly city like

      http://www.cjad.com/CJADLocalNews/entry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10515822

      "if you can;t ask in French about the Metro, then you walk".

      Montreal isn;t run for the population. It's run for the benefit of the unions, politicians, mafia etc. Having the citizens here is just a messy byproduct of having to extract all the tax money and house us fithly masses.

      Delete
    6. Aussant is far more intelligent than you give him credit for.

      He's not a "pur laine" separatist as his followers would like to think of him as being.

      Aussant wanted to become the first King of Quebec, just as Marois hoped for the same (in the feminine of course).

      When he resigned from his post as leader/founder of Option Nationale, Aussant stated the typical "family reasons"...however, his children will now live in a land far away from Quebec and be immersed in English.

      Even is Jean-Martin sends them to a top-level French academy in London, that won't change the fact that they are exposed 100% to English outside of the school walls.

      Like Parizeau before him, Aussant understands that success in found in the language of the world - l'Anglais.

      No wonder they're such bitter seppies...they couldn't transfer the English Success Formula to Quebec.

      C'est triste mais... here's an actual depiction of me crying on behalf of Aussant & Parizozo: :-(

      I know, it's pretty sad, right?

      Delete
    7. Nous récupérerons les électeurs d'O.N avec grand plaisir,merci M.Aussant :)

      Delete
    8. Typical "cannibal" separatists - they would eat their young in their desperation - lol

      Delete
    9. Imagine the self loathing that grips him when he drinks too much.

      Perhaps the real fault is his "need to accumulate". If he was just happy to be a seppie artist like all the rest of the employed.

      Must be the fault of anglo's tho in his mind.

      Remember in their world "all roads lead to rome". No matter the issue, it's the fault of anglo's and immigrants not integrating. Express outrage first, look for logical basis afterwards.


      Delete
    10. Well here's something I just copied from a FB page which should be right up his alley:

      I saw a bunch of French-speaking people bent over the Journal de Montreal this morning in McDonalds. All were pointing at something and shaking their heads. Did not look like happy campers at all. I picked up the paper after they left and opened it to where they had defaced the page. Something about Pauline spending $400,000 on brightening up her office with a bunch of computers, I-Pads and cell phones. Sure didn't set well with that bunch but I was glad to see that we Anglos hadn't caused it!

      Let's see what the little shit has to say about Miss Piggy wasting even more of OUR money! God, these people are outrageous in their selfishness.

      Delete
    11. I agree with everyone except S.R. If you can't master English, you basically failed your life.

      Delete
    12. Idem pour ceux qui ne maîtrisent pas la langue commune au Québec.

      Delete
    13. I have to laugh reading this from the news:

      Now Aussant says the job offers he's been getting are in Shanghai, Hong Kong, Singapore, Abu Dhabi and London — but nothing in Montreal or Quebec City.

      And this is a white francophone, highly educated, highly experienced individual. What does it say about Quebec economy that has been thrashed by the separatist movement? And what does it say about the notion that a Quebecois needs not to learn English to be successful? I would be glad if Yannick or Michel Patrice could answer those questions.

      Delete
    14. @Cebeuq : Found me one quote where Aussant blamed the Anglos and immigrants.

      Supporting Quebec's sovereignty doesn't always comes with a feeling of disdain toward Anglos.

      Delete
    15. Cutie: I couldn't find the piece on CJAD. I think it was purged.

      RR: Thanks for bringing up that tidbit on Aussant. What delicious irony!!

      Delete
    16. And what does it say about the notion that a Quebecois needs not to learn English to be successful? I would be glad if Yannick or Michel Patrice could answer those questions.

      I have always qualified the statement that a Québecois needs not to learn English to be successful. Not everyone is trying to be a CEO, after all, and it seems like you often define success in terms of Céline Dion and Cirque du Soleil.
      My position has always been that if one wants to stay in Quebec and pursue a middle-class career like nursing, engineering, etc... it's not absolutely (though an asset) to learn English. Surely you will agree that not every nurse or middle manager in Thailand or Spain needs to be fluent in English either?

      If one wants to shoot for the stars or aspire to international success, then absolutely English is mandatory. Not just for Quebecers, but for everyone.

      Personally, I have done my best to go to Quebec - at the undergrad level, Masters level, Ph.D. level, and for my first professional employment. Every time I was either rejected, or the offer that was made to me did not even come close to matching what I could obtain in the ROC. I've recently out-competed roughly 60 applicants for a position from all over Canada, the US, and even abroad, but I'm not good enough for Quebec. I'm glad that I knew (and have significantly improved my) English so that I had options, otherwise I would have been quite limited in my life.

      Oh well, their loss.

      Delete
    17. Mr. Sauga - tried that link again to CJAD from this blog and had no trouble. Don't know why you can't receive it. Sorry

      Delete
    18. "My position has always been that if one wants to stay in Quebec and pursue a middle-class career like nursing, engineering, etc... it's not absolutely (though an asset) to learn English."

      Yes I agree but then you find yourself walking out of a Denny's with your wife/or husband and two kids ...hungry because you coudn't order breakfast.

      It is never fine ...not to know any kind of English, and you should know better. I will go as far as saying that ESPECIALLY if you are in a middle-class career ...you need a second language. How else will you ever "empower" yourself? Is this the goal in Life?? To remain..."middle" of the road...and "middle" of anything. It's fine cause the nurse need not aspire to anything ...correct??? Like perhaps moving up to a position where she/he can earn a higher salary and improve his/her status and lifestyle?? You're encouraging this mindset that's it's okay...not to know English under certain circumstances when the truth is it's not. Shame on you for ...encouraging such a low bar, such a low standard..AND YES...I did read the rest of your post ...but the poor point you made trumped the rest of it. You have no business promoting this idea that it's okay not to know English, mister PhD.

      We don't need to master English, this is true, but Today, we need to at least be able to communicate in English. The world dictates this, too bad but that's reality, and it ain't Rocket Science, even a 17yr old has figured it out. The end.

      Delete
    19. "Supporting Quebec's sovereignty doesn't always comes with a feeling of disdain toward Anglos"

      Just Canadian Anglos. Mmm

      Makes ya think...doesn't it?

      Delete
    20. On the whole subject of Aussant, personally I think it is hilarious and we are well rid of him. These are the little delicious moments in Life when you are reminded that, the powers that be who survey all from above...forget no one. LOL Mostly, it is a moment to relish when he and those like him are shoved aside, with ZERO credibility. Naturally, he has his own agenda and he's probably doing this cause it benefits him tremendously somehow, going back over there. Who knows...it may simply be..because he needs a refresher course in English, poor schmuck...LOL

      Delete
    21. ...Oh and I forgot, Buckingham Palace is recruiting too. Wanted: Court Jester for new prince!!

      Popo…es-tu à l’écoute? LOL

      Maybe we could get rid of both of them …simultaneously.

      Delete
    22. Well Sebastien - if it doesn't always come from a feeling of disdain for anglos, what the hell are all these language laws for? Don't tell me AGAIN that it's to protect the french language because if your language hasn't disappeared in Canada in 400 years, it sure ain't gonna happen now. The hatred of any english is apparent from all of you and your ilk - every minority in this stinking province knows it so don't try to make it appear as if you have some other "noble" cause other than to eliminate everyone and anyone in quebec that does not conform to your idea of a pur laine francophone society. If you can't see how these politicians use you to line their pockets you are really in need of some de-programming help. Aussant is laughing all the way to England and to the bank and leaving all you losers in his wake and if you think he (or any of them) give a sweet shit about what happens to you and your cause, you are totally blind. The problem is when you all awake, it may be too late to save you and your families' ass from total ruin and hardship. God, I'd like to shake you all till your heads rattle! THEY DON'T GIVE ONE SWEET FUCK ABOUT YOU OR THE 'CAUSE' - IT'S ALL FOR MONEY FOR THEM AND THEIR FRIENDS AND FAMILIES. WOW.

      Delete
    23. @AnecTOTE

      On the subject of Aussant, he was quoted as saying something along the lines of "I don't see how my separatist convictions could affect my employment prospects in Quebec...not in 2013 for heaven's sake!"

      Well, here's the deal with the corporate world - they seek people who are team players who can cooperate with others on a common goal and work through differences.

      In being a separatist, Aussant is a 100% contradiction of this bill. He is unwilling to work as a team with Canada and work in cooperation with others to achieve a common goal.

      While just about all bottom-level separatists are Bougonesque in nature (I refer in this instance to our dear S.R.), top-level separatists such as Aussant are deluded,narcissistic sociopaths with little regards for their peers in the movement, and even less regard for the movement itself.

      They're in it to win it --- for themselves.

      Delete
    24. "..While just about all bottom-level separatists are Bougonesque in nature (I refer in this instance to our dear S.R.),"

      Please stop wasting your time trying to convince him of anything cause let's face it, unless you're wearing one of those Popo-type-Reagan Masks (you know ...like for Haloween), the message will never be accepted, coming from the "wrong" source. They're programmed like little robots to reject anything "We" say since it's coming from non-pur laines. It's a well-known fact. Even when it does come from one of their own, he's considered to be a sell-out, if he goes against "The Creed" in any way. Rather, USE THEM, post for Visitors. Every time a troll-head posts, shine a light brightly on them for the world to see. Embarrass the bunch Losers they are. If they're smart they will stop posting alltogether, since they're not, let's help them along. They'll keep posting cause they can't help themselves, and we should assist them in demonstrating to the rest of the world... just how Dumb they really are. It's our duty, if not our obligation. LOL...That's how we take'em down...one little seppie-brick at a time.

      And anyway, it's what they deserve for being asleep at the wheel. Aussant isn't...nosireebob.....No Way. He's gotten on a plane instead, and he's waved goodbye to the unilingual Losers who are forced to stay behind all their lives, paying somebody else's taxes!

      Makes ya laugh..don't it?

      Delete
    25. Certain seppie artists "artwork" isn;t selling if they have time to hang out here for years at a time.

      Should be spending more time lobbying the govt to buy the crap to decorate the walls of the jails and police station.

      Nobody else is going to buy it.

      It's like the unions. Nobody but the govt would ever hire a union mentality Quebec worker.

      If the STM didn;t hire them all, they would be playing video lottery all day going home to a cardboard box, waiting for the next welfare check.

      Delete
    26. Yannick,

      From my first hand experience and observation:

      Surely you will agree that not every [nurse or] middle manager in Thailand [or Spain] needs to be fluent in English either?

      I absolutely do not agree with that sentence. Middle managers in Thailand do speak and write English on daily basis, much much more than those in Quebec do. I now have to ask you to corroborate your statement above.

      Delete
    27. @AnecTOTE "Just Canadian Anglos. Mmm

      Makes ya think...doesn't it?"

      No it doesn't. Everything isn't always completely black or white

      Delete
    28. Troy - I don't feel like I have to corroborate anything. I never said that Thai managers didn't speak English - but that they shouldn't need to.

      If what you say is true, I am saddened that even the only country in all of Asia which has always remained non-colonized is in such a hurry to adopt a foreign language. The day when every single person in this world knows, works and lives in English is the day where we lose beautiful individualism and I am afraid that is where we are headed.

      Delete
    29. Middle managers in Thailand do speak and write English on daily basis, much much more than those in Quebec do.

      I can vouch for that, having lived and worked there for some years. Nobody, but nobody, expects to achieve success in the world by being a unilingual Thai speaker (a language with about 60 million speakers). Not only that, but while they like it when foreigners make an effort to learn some words and expressions, they are a little perturbed if a foreigner actually manages to speak Thai too well. Same thing with the Japanese, incidentally.

      The day when every single person in this world knows, works and lives in English…

      This fanciful notion, something that will plainly never happen, is a nightmare scenario that is mainly, if not only, ever put forward by one group of people in the world to my knowledge, and that is by French Canadians.

      Delete
    30. Yannick,

      Maybe it is better if for once you just admit that you pulled your statement out of thin air without fully comprehending the fact. My position is that your statement:

      Surely you will agree that not every middle manager in Thailand needs to be fluent in English either?

      is factually false as every middle manager in Thailand does need to be fluent in English.

      Delete
    31. The Cat,

      While I am convinced that Yannick is not a separatist, I can not help that sometimes he uses the same false logic many separatists do. In this case, he just made an assumption that the condition out there was similar than it is here. This time, he did not take into account that there were people, namely you and I, who actually have been there and worked there and know exactly how it is over there.

      Kap khun krap, P' Maew.

      Delete
  10. I'm rather disappointed in the number of posters who seem to feel that it's ok for the police to abuse their power if it's done against people whose politics the posters don't like. These same people will be outraged down the road if the same tactics are applied to them, yet this is how it always begins. The end doesn't justify the means.
    Troy: "I hope that she will realize what hole she has dug herself into when she graduates and looking for work, and has a background check done on her before getting hired." Really? How very charitable. She's a 21 year old kid, who obviously has some issues and you want to destroy her.

    Quebecer of the Tree Stump: "If she was fighting for something worth while, a noble cause maybe, I might see things differently" Freedom of speech isn't worth fighting for? If profanity was a crime. a number of posters to this blog would be in serious trouble.

    Tony Kondraks: "Then the Editor appeals to us to have sympathy for her because what is being done to her is, technically, illegal." Would you feel sympathy if they beat her up? If they killed her and dumped her body in the river? Just where, if anywhere is the line where you'd feel sympathy, where it does become wrong?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Your post sums up exactly how I feel about the attitude towards her. Bad ideas are to be debated and debunked. Locking people up, or having government agencies harass them because of their ideas is immoral. Another black eye for Quebec civil liberties.

      Delete
    2. This isn't some innocent little girl who the police decided to pick on for no reason.

      "These same people will be outraged down the road if the same tactics are applied to them, yet this is how it always begins."
      You make it sound like if this girl was innocently walking down the street one day when the police suddenly decided to harass her. How about you take into consideration everything she did to receive so much police attention.

      I'm rather disappointed by all the posters here who seem to think it's ok to do whatever you want when you don't agree with certain policies/rules/laws. I'm starting to understand how the PQ & Unions managed to manipulate the population so easily last summer; everyone is a martyr in this province apparently.

      Diogenes, what about the police officers who were only doing their jobs, whose personal information was posted online by this young woman? What about their safety and/or privacy? Is that not important?

      "Freedom of speech isn't worth fighting for?"
      Freedom of speech is great, as long as your freedom doesn't affect someone elses. In this case, it did. Anyways come on, this girl isn't fighting for freedom of speech. In fact I'm pretty sure she doesn't even know what she's fighting for.

      And again, there is a big difference between fighting for a noble cause, and doing the work of the unions/separatists.




      Delete
    3. Quebecer of the Tree Stump, So...the end does justify the means? Don't get me wrong, I don't support her anarchist cause, but comparatively speaking, when the state has nearly infinite resources at its disposal, there is no reason to resort to goon-squad tactics. That's how you end up with Chile under the Pinochet regime. I have no use for unions and think separatists are completely misguided, but that doesn't mean I'm in favour of the illegally harassing and intimidating them.

      Delete
    4. I don't think that police intimidation can ever be justified or excused based on whether or not the person "deserves" it. It's not up to the police to figure out what she "deserves" - it's up to them to uphold the law, not to take justice into their own hands.

      It is very scary that so many people are willing to excuse the police's behaviour based on this person's political beliefs.

      Perhaps this citation by a clergyman living in Germany during the Nazi era can illustrate my point better than I can.

      First they came for the socialists,
      and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

      Then they came for the trade unionists,
      and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

      Then they came for the Jews,
      and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

      Then they came for me,
      and there was no one left to speak for me.


      Obviously the police intimidation is not the first step of a Nazi takeover, but the quote is very apt in explaining that we should not only oppose evil we ourselves, or the people we think of as righteous are the target, but when anyone is the target, as distasteful as they might be for us.

      Even when the most distasteful of people is the target, we should defend their civil liberties.

      Delete
    5. Exactly Yannick. I first saw that piece when I was in high school and it has stayed with me ever since.
      As an aside, the interesting thing about anarchists is that every one I've ever seen strikes me as being unlikely to thrive if a true state of anarchy existed. A case of "be careful what you wish for".

      Delete
    6. They do seem to be angry young humanities students with few marketable skills, don't they.

      Delete
  11. I agree with you, Diogenes. If someone is peacefully protesting and not inciting others to violence or causing violence themselves, they should not be harassed by police. She apparently didn't resist arrest, unlike Amir Khadr's daughter. I don't really agree that much with her cause but she has every right to express her views. What the police are doing to her is harassement,

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. She posted personal information about police officers online

      If that's not inciting others to violence, I don't know what is.. Was she hoping people would send them birthday cards???

      Come on now people, wake up....

      Delete
    2. Then charge her with something appropriate, not petty unrelated fines to intimidate her. If they can't come up with something substantive, she didn't break the law in posting their info.

      Delete
    3. "Then charge her with something appropriate, not petty unrelated fines to intimidate her. If they can't come up with something substantive, she didn't break the law in posting their info."

      I have to admit that you have a good point there.

      Still, let's not pretend this girl was an innocent and peaceful protestor. She knew what she was doing and she should have known what the results of confronting police officers directly would be.


      Delete
    4. What I don't want to pretend is that her personality and actions as a protester should have anything to do about whether or not she should be the target of police intimidation.

      Delete
  12. Just another incident:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQZpNDhNBYY&feature=share

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Reasons we need an election quickly just to refresh everyone's memory:
      http://www.cbc.ca/montreal/features/bill-14/index.html

      Delete
    2. "Reasons we need an election quickly just to refresh everyone's memory"

      La Commission Charbonneau le fera cet automne,un peu de patience.

      Delete
  13. Miss Nelson is clearly a target because she's an Anglo.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It certainly doesn;t hurt that she's anglo.

      The police know the french press won;t care about her issues as an anglophone and are unlikely to get any bad media attention for harassing an anglophone.

      Now if she was a francophone, daughter of a union leader she would get picked up as PQ candidate and hailed as the future of the province.

      Who says harassing a young anglo immigrant from outside the province in 2013 for the misdeeds of anglophone settlers in 1640 is wrong?

      The PQ mind works much like George Bush and his statements about terrorists. "Either you are for us or against us".

      Either you are a seppie or you are the enemy. Nothing in the middle.


      Delete
  14. FROM ED
    Hey Sauga, when you go to sleep at night do you still look under your bed to see if there are any Liberals hiding there. When Dr.Couillard achieves office there will be no more insurrection bwcause he will make us all happy. The Jewish community will be happy with his business acumen and our sidewalks will be paved with gold. You will be able to come back and live, here, in your heart's home. We miss you as much as you miss us. Pease write often so we know your well old friend, Ed

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks for thinking of me, Ed. Just one question: Why are you zeroing in on the Jewish community and Dr. Couillard's business acumen? You'll have to excuse me for being a bit of a yenta!

      Delete
  15. I only see kettling as being a problem when police officers have no intention of fining or arresting protesters, if they intend to arrest and process them how else would one round up a group of people and keep them confined long enough to process all of them?

    The man sitting under the tree was warned not to sit there by the police, he got up when they warned him, he then waited for them to leave and then went right back to it, my sympathy for him ended there. The police were being more than fair to him by warning him and not giving a ticket and what does he do to return the favour? goes right back to it

    As to Nelson, the police may be overzealous in handing her tickets, but she is breaking the law to receive them. If you know the police are watching you why jay walk, yell obscenities, and spit (disgustingly) all over the place? It's like speeding past a speed camera with all of the warning signs before it being very clearly marked, and then complaining that you got a ticket. You may think that the laws on the books that she has been fined for are nonsensical, but take that up with the law makers, whose responsibility it is to change them, not the police whose role is to enforce, to the letter, the laws that are on the books.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That is unlawful according to the Code of Penal Procedure. Any arrest justified under Article 75 (it must be the only reasonable way to end commission of the offence) must be terminated as soon as the risk of re-offence ends... they must be let go even if it means not serving tickets. It is also very arguable that arrest is "the only reasonable way" to end the offence and let's not forget also that probable cause needs to be individualised so that arrests be legal and sweeping people indiscriminately does away with that...

      As for the Katie tickets the court decisions show that she was not breaking the law at all.

      Delete
  16. About Assunt and his defection to England. Read the comments below - we all feel the same.
    http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Founder+Quebec+independence+party+moves+England/8780619/story.html

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Seems like most commentators are clueless as to who he is.

      Delete
    2. That is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read. Silly, silly people - everyone on there knows exactly who he is and what he stands for.

      Delete
    3. I love some of the smart/funny/pertinent comments that some Gazette readers have made. Here are just a few:

      Derek Clark:
      The leaders all educated and speak English......so they have an out, if and when separation is achieved and goes inevitably wrong......the followers are manipulated and practically forced to remain unilingual in the name of "culture" and will have NO ESCAPE from their self created hell!

      Absolutely hysterical!


      Jordan Elias:

      This is one of the funniest thing I ever read. Goes hand in hand with the article the other day how farncophones are leaving the province for employment opportunities elsewhere. Lets not forget Lucien Bouchard, who was married to an American and sent his kids to English boarding schools. These separatists are all two faced liars, who spread lies and feed weak minded individuals pure dribble. We can only hope brighter minds will prevail in the future, and misinformed will be shown the truth and see the light so that Quebec and it's future may see brighter days.


      Mary Mule:
      Isn't it ironic that a hard core pequist is fleeing to an English country? Two faced rat.


      Jason Tremblay:
      He's in international finance and is pro-independance in 2013. That really brings his judgement into question...and the company's that hired him.


      David Mosher:
      Maybe he didn't get offers from Montreal or Quebec City because the separatists have scared the businesses away. Have fun paying taxes to the British Monarchy.


      Maged Bishara:
      That's a great example of how an open world multilingual market is best for the economy.

      A sovereignist leader decides that it's better to work in the world market indicates that Quebec should follow the same path rather than follow the unilingual education policies that its children receive.

      I can understand (not agree) with the desire to have one's own country but segregationist policies place the population at a disadvantage.

      If he really believed in his cause then he would stick it out over here just like he's asking the rest of the population to do rather than fleeing to an English environment because the prospects are better.

      He's not a real leader that believes in an ideology. He just wanted a career and finally realized that the open world market is the best way to achieve it for himself.

      Delete
  17. Check out some of the comments here:

    http://blogues.journaldemontreal.com/jeanmartinaussant/politique/au-fait-je-ne-mangerai-pas-de-bebes/

    Yes, there are a few ass-lickers who gleefully take anything Aussant dishes out, but there are a few
    choice reactions in there.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes there are some that said it like it is. I put a comment in in English - will wait to see if they publish it. One has to wonder exactly what it will take for these sheep to see through the separatist movement and get their heads out of their asses. I still don't understand how so many people can be so stupid. It boggles the mind.

      Delete
    2. Are comments in French posted on the Globe & Mail or the National Post? Just wondering...

      Delete
    3. There are plenty of English newspapers that publish comments in French - the difference is that the English community is not rude or arrogant with the francophones and don't mind using Google translate to try and understand what the point of the comment is. Just another thing we do in a civilized society unlike the separatists in quebec.

      Delete
    4. It's got to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read. Those comments section are often full of hatred toward Francophones. Your community is an as welcoming as you think.

      Delete
    5. I have to admit that since the election things are a lot more heated but you people have to realize that you are not the only emotional ones in this debate. I try to keep my temper when dealing with separatists but people like SR tend to get under one's skin. Just his personality type. Anyway for all of you to think that you can tear our country apart and that there is not the very real possibility of civil war is very immature because of the emotional ties that people have to their roots. You underestimate the anger and economic instability you will create and that will further anger the ROC. When you deny these very real possibilities, people get ticked off because you are seen as shit disturbers for no reason. After 40 years of listening to the same old crap of how badly you were treated by the anglophones and the revisionist history you keep bringing up, people are fed up to say the least. Generally speaking if you give respect you will get respect.

      Delete
  18. Anarchy means obeying your own laws and ignoring the laws of the majority. The police protect the laws of this majority, the voters that the people elected. So she calls herself an anarchist and is surprised when the public is against her. She is a trouble maker and revels in the publicity it brings her. In the meantime it's a pain in the ass to others who obey the laws. For example, the bike ride was heading to the old port but when they saw they could not make enough trouble there they turned back into downtown traffic at rush hour on Friday night when people who have worked hard are trying to get home to take their children for a holiday.. Heartless bastards.
    Protesters have never won anything good. They disrupt and make people's lives hell and go off saying we won., now clean up thee mess we made. For example, they claim they brought down the Liberal government. Bullshit, it was the lies of corruption and the CAQ being in the right place to benefit from them. What they did accomplish were damaged properties and cars belonging to innocent people.
    When a cop tell you get off the grass, you say, 'Yes Sir” and do it. If I came home and told my Father I'd been strapped at school, he'd give me another one. He taught me that right or wrong is not as important as respecting authority.. When Judge McNanamee saw my wife or I in the Juvenile court he'd have a great smile on his face. He knew that whichever child left with us would never be seen in his courthouse again. When John Kennedy won the presidency , he told his life long friends, “ you Must call me Mr. .President. I will always be your friend Jack, but I must ask you to show respect for the office I hold.”
    When the police give an order they expect us to show respect for the badge of office they hold. A badge that one day may be in the hands of a grieving wife with a bullet hole in it. When protesters show that kind of courage they may be worth listening to. Ed

    ReplyDelete
  19. I have evidence of corruption in the police ethics commission, the office of the minister for Justice for Canada has seen it, but says that Quebec is not under their jurisdiction and they can do nothing, Kathleen Weil instructed Jacques Dupuis to investigate, he already knew about the evidence he had seen it and chosen to ignore it, Jacques Dupuis also ignored Kathleen Weil's instructions to investigate and then for other reasons was forced to resign. He was obviously corrupt. The previous minister for justice was enraged that I asked for advice on what action I could take against the police ethics commission and told me not to try and communicate with him again. The police ethics commission see their role as protecting the police and ensuring no complaint is upheld. I think every one in Quebec knows this really. There is no real will to do anything. I have been fighting my case for years and I have realised what is considered to be the greatest crime in Quebec is to expose people for their criminal behaviour and hypocrisy; as long as they are not black or mentally ill of course, when different rules apply.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Unfortunately I believe every word of what you wrote above and I don't know you or anything about you. This is just another example of how quebec runs wild and Canada is too wimpy, for some reason, to step in. This is where the federal government is lacking knowledge of how to bloody well run the country. I would love for this to be brought to the attention of the public all over Canada and embarrass them into some action against Quebec JUST FOR ONCE.

      Delete
    2. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

      Delete
  20. BREAKING NEWS:
    http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Quebec+Liberal+Leader+Philippe+Couillard+Roberval+report/8784378/story.html

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Globe and Mail on Aussant leaving for England:
      http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/founder-of-quebec-independence-party-moves-to-england/article13711212/?cmpid=rss1&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

      Delete
    2. Hi cutie I tried telling more of my story it was deleted. So much for people wanting to know the truth.

      Delete
  21. 5 nouveaux pays qui pourraient exister d’ici 2025

    http://www.denoncezuntraitre.com/blogueur/5-nouveaux-pays-qui-pourraient-exister-dici-2025/

    ReplyDelete
  22. La taxe de Couillard

    http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/quebec/384978/la-taxe-de-couillard

    ReplyDelete
  23. Hi cutie, I have been deleted, if you would like the whole story email me at e_m_sanderson@hotmail.com and I will email it to you, it makes fascinating reading and every word is true.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Putting her principles aside, what has this girl actually done that is dangerous to the public? She spat on the ground, insulted cops and so on. There are no reports of her physically attacking anyone, wielding weapons or even destroying property. How thin skinned are police that they can't handle being verbally insulted? Grade school teachers and bus drivers put up with more than cops who ticket people for saying 'bastard'. This girl didn't threaten anyone, she uttered a bad word.
    The students were asking for violence is a gross distortion. You do realize that police regularly arrested non-violent protestors last year without any real justification, right? They also pepper sprayed non-violent protestors (along with random restaurant patrons) who hadn't provoked them. The fact that some (and let's remember that whether you agree with their politics or not, probably 90% of the thousands of protestors didn't do anything remotely violent) people committed acts of vandalism or fought with police did not justify the kettling and harassment of people whose only crime was walking in the road banging pots and pans.

    ReplyDelete