Wednesday, July 31, 2013

Quebec Liberals a Victim of their own Success

Polls in Quebec are notoriously fickle, probably because the voters are as well, but it's pretty clear that whatever short-lived romance the electorate had with Francois Legault and the CAQ, it's pretty much over.

The numbers for the CAQ have steadily declined to the point that they now are nothing more than a spoil-sport, presenting a dangerous situation for Quebec democracy, where the PQ government, lounging in the low 30% approval ratings, soldiers on because the CAQ is afraid of being decimated at the polls, in any potential election

With polling numbers like these below, the CAQ has good reason to fear an election. Never underestimate a politician's will to survive and between doing the right thing and preserving one's job a little longer......well.

Nouveau sondage Léger montre une situation similaire au dernier Crop
And so, much to our consternation, we aren't going to face an election anytime soon as the PQ, is ironically the chief beneficiary of the Liberal party's resurgence and the CAQ's decline.

As you can see in the chart above, the Liberal party is in majority territory, a frightening scenario for the PQ, but even worse for the CAQ, which would likely not survive an election rout.

It isn't really a case of the CAQ foundering or losing its way, but rather the reality that set in, once the bloom is off the rose, and where only the traditional true conservative base of voters  remains, less than 20%.

It's hard to envisage any scenario where the CAQ will make a comeback to that brief period where they were leading in the polls, the voters have had a chance to live with the CAQ for a while and have tired of the message of fiscal restraint.
How many times do voters really vote for cuts and restraint, something the CAQ has droned on and on about, to the dissatisfaction of most voters who prefer to live in a fantasy world where their entitlements endure forever.

I like the CAQ, its members perhaps the most honest and realistic of all the provincial parties, traits that are unfortunately a death knell in politics where stealth, deception and  blatant dishonesty usually wins the day.
Couillard delivering leadership

As for the Liberals, the very strong performance of Philippe Couillard and the party's resurgence  has been a pleasant surprise.

Before I go on, let me quote him from an interview he gave to the Suburban
“The PQ ideology is all centred on the fact that in some way French-speaking Quebecers are besieged or humiliated or threatened…It's not true, and we will stand up and say it,” he says, “and I say the same thing in the Gaspé as in the west island of Montreal.”
“Maybe we hesitated to say it in the past, but now we have to say it as it is” he says, adding is that the PQ is working to define identity of francophone Quebecers “instead of seeking to define a shared identity among all Quebecers, one that includes the primacy of the French language.”
Couillard said that while the government had suggested it will tweak some elements of its Bill 14 language legislation in committee this fall, the Liberals will vote against it “not on technical grounds or question of this or that article. No, it's based on false premises. If we want French to be promoted in Quebec there are ways to do that which would lead to a much more favourable climate.”
Read the whole article
Readers, as an ex-political organizer, I can tell you this position was brilliantly crafted, whomever in his entourage who scripted it, should be recruited on the federal level and offered the big bucks.

In one fell swoop Mr. Couillard changed the dynamic of the debate, striking at the heart of the separatist argument that Quebecers are threatened and weak, something the PQ has based its entire political existence on.
The PQ have successfully attacked the Liberal's with accusations of weakness in the face of the federal government and for its perceived lack of defense of the French language, to which Jean Charest's limp reply was usually appeasement, with reactions like beefing up the loathsome OQLF.

Couillard is having none of that.

He's going on the offense, striking at the heart of the PQ's  bedrock premise and that attack has already struck a chord, as evidenced in the polls.
The Couillard message is that Quebec is not weak nor threatened and shouldn't act as if it is. Furthermore, more is to be achieved by friendly cooperation with Ottawa, than by self-destructive fighting.

Furthermore, his interview with the Suburban, (an unofficial party organ of the Liberals)  has re-established the eternal link with the English and minorities and has squelched any resurgence of Anglo protest.

The Liberals under Couillard are back in the saddle and to say that the PQ and the CAQ are frightened is an understatement extraordinaire.

The PQ, fearful of losing power will do anything to survive and so Bill 14 will arrive, not stillborn but hobbled enough to allow the CAQ to save face.

Nonetheless, even in its less restrictive form, the law will be another disastrous step backwards.

And that is where we will find ourselves politically for the next while, firmly ensconced between a rock and a hard place, the disastrous co-dependance of the PQ and the CAQ, a frightening scenario.

So don't expect an election soon, even next year.

The only bug in the ointment is the issue of Hydro rates this Fall.

In order to pay for the foolish green energy programs that the PQ government expanded, Hydro-Quebec needs a big rate increase and the media is attracted to the story like bees to pollen.

It is an issue that can rip the PQ apart and if the Liberals manoeuvre the issue onto the front page, the CAQ will be caught, unable to support the PQ on such a fundamental issue.

But from this observer's point of view, the likeliest scenario is more PQ, more Marois, more stupidity, more pain and this, not in the short-term but rather the intermediate.

I remember the great Montreal Canadiens Stanley Cup victory of '93 where an improbable combination of overtime victories coupled with underdogs taking out the competition led to a less than stellar team winning the Stanley Cup.

Sometimes the stars align, and like the Canadiens in '93, the hapless, unpopular and incompetent Pauline Marois and the PQ finds itself, through an incredible serendipitous confluence of circumstances, firmly in power.

It's a sad note  to leave on but with that, valued readers, I'm off on vacation and will publish erratically over the next little while.....

I do have a post for Monday which will be interesting and spark some debate (I hope!)

Check in... As I said, I might sneak in a couple of posts, even though I promised my wife to take a break!!

And with that dear friends, I'm off to visit the grandchildren in NYC.

I hope you are all enjoying your summer.


  1. Fascinating quote from Philippe Couillard… and eminently sensible, too. What a breath of fresh air compared to the PQ’s perpetual victimhood.

    1. Meh, meh, meh! It's easy as pie to shoot off your mouth like a loose cannon when you're in opposition. John James Charest, the hypocrite that he was, left Ottawa and came to Quebec with pretty much the same federalist attitude, and then as soon as his face was no longer in front of the red-and-white maple leaf, and then was superimposed on the blue-and-white fleur-de-lys, his words, his beliefs and his attitude all changed faster than a lightening bolt striking the CN Tower.

      He called Preston Manning a bigot, he was Captain Canada during the 1995 Referendum with his white costume and red cape, yet years later he became premier a few years later and changed his attitude and colors. New voters to serve, new attitude.

      Fear not, dear Editor and readers, when it's time for Philippe Couillard M.D. to don costume and cape, he'll squawk and sing Gens de Pays, à la John James Charest...just you wait and see! A leopard cannot change its spots.

      Monsieur et Madamme Québec: Get your racist selves the hell out of my country!

  2. Is there a "Recall" mechanism in Québec's political system?

    1. Why do you ask the question? Also, the English language does not use diacritical marks.

    2. Shawn: Now THAT is funny!!

  3. Err... the question is legit, though the answer is clearly no. and as for the diactitical marks, they are used... but that is not the subject of the comment nor of the blog... please don't stray.

    1. The question is why do you take advantage of the Editor trying to get a short vacation to post anonymously as he has asked you not to? Ed

  4. So essentially, the CAQ's existence and survival is tied to the PQ. They topple the PQ government, they go down with them, and likely disappear for good, much like the ADQ.

    Where does this leave us? Either the CAQ must support all the PQ's decisions, or...merge with the PQ to form a long term majority. What have they got to lose, they're dead nonetheless. Plus they share the same ideals anyway. I said it before, the CAQ IS THE PQ.

    And watch, I will be right about Bill 14 passing as well. Hobbled or not, if it passes in any form, the danger is anything pulled out can be easily put back in at a later point. It is like a cancer...if even one cancer cell survives, the whole cancer can grow back and return. And make no mistake, Bill 14 is a fatal cancer for Quebec! It will scare off and destroy whatever business is left. Not that there's any hope for Quebec, as far as I'm concerned whatever happens at this point or who is elected, this province is ****ed.

    1. "they share the same ideals anyway"

      what are these "ideals", mate? please make a list of traits shared by caq and pq, but not by libs.

      "It will scare off and destroy whatever business is left"

      how will bill 14 do that exactly mate?

    2. @student
      You may call yourself "student" but you sound more like an elementary teacher that borderline passed her exams...
      Mate? that's so dumb. Good discredit on you.
      As a separatist you should use the term "copain" :)

    3. @First Time Poster

      Please don't waste time answering that fucking prick.

      He's only on the Vigile.Net payroll and was sent here to ask pointless questions.

    4. @ student

      While we're at it, why don't you ask "How exactly does smoking causes cancer?" and "What is this substance you call water, and how do you know it makes you wet?".

      If you're honestly that blind and ignorant about the politics of the CAQ, then you should look into changing your alias to "special needs student". Hopefully you're just trolling for attention, otherwise I feel quite sorry for you.

    5. Or he must be a social student at UQUAM. Number one in producing welfare recipients.

    6. Why do we park on driveways and drive on parkways?
      Why do noses run and feet smell?
      Why are there no size B batteries?
      How do you throw away a trash can?
      Why can’t you tickle yourself?
      Do fish get thirsty?
      Why does round pizza come in a square box?
      What is the hokey pokey really all about?
      Is there another word for synonym?

      Where would we be without rhetorical questions?

    7. Vous avez oublié...

      Est-ce que R.S est une copie canadienne ratée de S.R?

    8. @first time poster @johnny rotten @apple iigs @r.s @anonymous

      five replies, no answers whatsoever. you guys don't even know why you're on mission against bill 14. you take what they tell you for cash and then build a hate scheme on it. that's a deadend, mates. you should try to hop out of that rut.

      for reference, apple iigs's outrageous and baseless claim: ""Bill 14 is a fatal cancer for Quebec! It will scare off and destroy whatever business is left..."

    9. "you take what they tell you for cash"

      And how is this NOT the case for you?

    10. @johnny rotten

      well. i don't know. please indicate a mine quote that leads you to think i took something for cash when i shouldn't have.

      also, try to explain why bill 14 is "a fatal cancer for Quebec" and why it would "destroy whatever business is left".

      finally, i think it's funny that you advise others not to reply to me, and then grant me a reply. are you always a clown, or is it just this time?

    11. @Student

      "try to explain why bill 14 is "a fatal cancer for Quebec" and why it would "destroy whatever business is left"

      I don't have to explain anything to a fickle little shit like you.

      "please indicate a mine quote"

      Oh and why don't you take the time to learn English before telling people they don't have the right to speak it, twerp.

    12. @johnny rotten

      i understand that you don't know why you're fighting bill 14 and that you wish to drag me down to an insult contest. won't work, mate. i'm here to study.

    13. Johnny Rotten - Separatist Garbage Removal SpecialistSaturday, August 3, 2013 at 6:32:00 PM EDT

      I'm fighting bill 14 so racist shitbags like yourself remain marginal. You think anglos and other minorities don't have a place in Quebec...I'm here to kill your twisted little white-boys-only dream.

      Why don't you publish your address and I'll stop by to drop off some "study materials" mate?

    14. Of course, we all know what you're going to say next twerp. Your father said it before you.

      So did you crusty old grandaddy...and his dad before him.

      Seppies = privileged rebels

    15. @johnny rotten

      "You think anglos and other minorities don't have a place in Quebec..."

      no i don't. you'll have to find another reason. this one is rotten.

      "Why don't you publish your address and I'll stop by to drop off some "study materials" mate?"

      drop the digital version here. if it's good stuff you'll want everyone in our community to benefit.

    16. "no i don't. you'll have to find another reason. this one is rotten."

      Actually you support bill 101 and 14 - two bills that see a small group of (retarded) people telling other humans how to live (according to their own preferences). That makes you a bigot.

      Also, you've stated you're against multiculturalism. Again, if you don't want to be labelled a racist, stop acting like Quebec belongs to the Quebecois - it's a falsehood.

      "drop the digital version here. if it's good stuff you'll want everyone in our community to benefit."

      "Our" community? You're the neighbor everyone wants out of this neighborhood. I'm willing to be that even your fellow seppies think you're a total cocksucker.

      Anyways, "our" community (the one that doesn't include you and S.R) already knows the good stuff.

      Nighty, night twerp.

    17. @johnny rotten

      all laws "tell humans how to live". bills 101 and 14 are not special in that regard. if this is the only reason why you oppose them, i'm sorry to inform you that it is not valid.

      "'ve stated you're against multiculturalism."

      please quote me. i don't recall having written that.

      "stop acting like Quebec belongs to the Quebecois..."

      ?!? that's a funny one, who does it belong to then, zimbabweans? germans? please add a few lines about why quebec doesn't belong to its residents in your humble opinion.

      "You're the neighbor everyone wants out of this neighborhood."

      i'm sorry mate, i'm part of this blog's community. you'll have to get rid of your sectarian point of view and accept diversity. do you have what it takes, or was your brainwash too successful?

      "Anyways, "our" community (the one that doesn't include you and S.R) already knows the good stuff."

      so why are you here if you and your mates already know everything?!?

    18. @Johnny Rotten

      See what happens when you feed trolls?

      You get troll logic.

      Take a close look at all of the troll's "points" and you'll find that each one is fundamentally flawed with contradictions and anti-logic.

      I'm about to publish this link further down, but here's another example of seppie anti-logic at work:

      Please, keep your hands out of the cage at all times and let the primates beat their chests and bang their pots and pans. After all, it's really all they have.

    19. Tsk tsk tsk! Contributors to this particular thread: You all fell into student the troll's trap again. I can be wrong, but maybe you all get a neurotic pleasure doing so.

      Noticed I don't contribute to this blog anywhere nearly as much as I used to? What's the point in doing so? Same old s--t, different day, bigger shovel.

      After a long hiatus from Quebec and its endless load of crap (right now too, I have much bigger fish to fry), I've had enough of the whole damn thing. I finally went back to see if Keith B. put in anymore rants, and I watched the latest two. While everything this guy says is so, so true, it has come to the point I don't give a damn about Quebec anymore. In fact, like Howard Galganov, I just wish Quebec would go away and leave Canada the hell alone.

      All you all do is let student and a host of other trolls goad you and they do so successfully, each and every time.

      Hell, I'm surprised the Editor is even keeping this up, but even he has cut down on the number of contributions and topic he contributes. In fact, after tomorrow, I hope he forgets this blog while in NYC and focuses all his time and energy on the grandchildren and having some fun there.

      It's not as if Philippe Couillard M.D. is going to make any difference. There are certain sicknesses doctors just can't cure and the bullshit that is Quebec is one of them.

      An analogue clock goes around and around and around and around twice a day, and has since the analogue clock was invented long before any of you, and I, came along and will continue to so for all eternity after we and the new eventual King George VII are all gone. Quebec will always be around bitching about some injustice imposed upon them long after Philippe Couillard M.D. and his descendants and our descendants come and go, UNLESS we now get rid of the putzwingers, like student et al., that make up the majority of Quebec society.

      Damn them all to hell!

    20. 13 comments and 5 days later there's still no trace of something that could help our community understand why bill 14 is "a fatal cancer for Quebec" and why it would "destroy whatever business is left". we got three dozen insults, though. guys if you can't articulate an argument bill 14 will pass effortlessly.

    21. @Student

      Coward's right - you aren't worth responding to.

      You clearly have no understanding of the economy, you've never operated and/or managed a business and it's also clear that you've not traveled in life.

      The rest of us have experience in all three of the elements I just listed and that's why we see why Bill 14 will crush Quebec's windpipe.

      No one here has to explain it to you because you serve us no use.

      From what I saw at the public hearings on bill 14, it's barely of any use to explain the trappings to our elected officials, regardless of their party colours.

      What makes me sick to my stomach is when I see a determined young man like Xavier Ménard (whom I presume to be close to your age, Student) being controlled when he is trying to build something that can help the provincial economy, while other people his age (namely, you) contribute nothing.

      You march in the streets like the entitled parasites you are, whining over an increase of 25 cents a day, while this kid is building a future for himself and those he comes into contact with along the way.

      So my question to you is this Student - what do you contribute to our society?

    22. @johnny rotten

      "you aren't worth responding to."

      you are proving otherwise here, mate.

      "you've never operated a business and (...) you've not traveled in life... (...) The rest of us have experience in all three..."

      haha. funny how you pretend to know all these anonymous blog characters.

      "No one here has to explain it to you because you serve us no use."

      dude, if you explain something to me and have me agree with you, i will then become useful, won't i? think about it.

      "whining over an increase of 25 cents a day..."


      "what do you contribute to our society?"

      amongst other things, i bust shitty arguments on this blog. what do you contribute to our society, mate?

    23. To Anonymous Coward:

      You're totally right - this guy's a fucking retard and he really does live in his own little world.

      None of his responses hold any weight or content - just lame sizzle.

      Lesson learned: no more troll feeding.

  5. LordDorchester

    Excellent posting Editor. Couillard seems to have found his groove and his message is resonating. The CAQ is floundering and I wouldn't be surprised to hear of defections to the Liberal party in the near future. The dye in the wool Federalists in the CAQ were Liberal voters in the not too distant past after all. If anyone of those ex-Liberals can read political tea leaves, they would be well advised to jump ship sooner than later and give the Liberals a majority in the AssNat for the good of the Province. The PQ's ideologically driven way of governing is pushing investment and money away from Quebec at a fast clip and their incompetence is shining through. Time to throw the bums out!

  6. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTThursday, August 1, 2013 at 6:28:00 AM EDT

    quebec needs a more capitalist approach if it wants a fulfilling future as a society.
    Everyone must do his/her fair share, a collective effort; no more corporate corruption, no more tax cheating and a more productive society, with less entitlements. Then the government must scale back generous social programs, terminate the awful concept of social-democracy, lower taxes and waste and promote quebec as a vibrant and productive society where business can thrive. Whoever laeds quebec must also target high dropout rates in our schools and offer better technical training for our youth to work in the many mineral natural resources in the north. quebec must pay off its debt and end its annual deficits by exploiting its many gas and oil resources and finally eliminate its QST. Any government that can accomplish the above is the only worthwhile party to lead quebec. The PQ has its priorities wrong.

    1. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTThursday, August 1, 2013 at 6:40:00 AM EDT

      ...and I forgot.
      As much as it is difficult for the 2nd generation quebecois that were brought up under the "Etat Providence" since the late 60's to fully understand into what very dangerous course quebec is uncontrollably drifting towards at this time. The province's debt is truly scary and quebecois are living beyond their means. What are the results of this: a sh$tty infrastructure and inefficient society.
      I only hope that quebec's leaders can do their due diligence and become pro-active and to admit that la belle province is inevitably to live the same scenario and fate Greece is at this time...

    2. Un gars....
      Keep dreaming. Quebec politicians are light years away from even wanting to veer course from self destruction. I say bring bill 14, make Quebec an "isolated" society and see the whole place unravel:) Beers & pop corn on me!!!

    3. Unfortunately First Time poster there are a lot of us that are going to be caught up in that nightmare scenario. Partition this place and then we'll talk. Out with the bums that want out.

  7. FROM ED
    Dr.Couillard is a good leader who has the ability to move people. It is because of this the new hospitals are almost finished. His ability to move people forward will help to placate the Francophones when he gives equal rights to the English. Even separatists will have to accept the defeat of the PQ when they see Quebec moving forward.
    Let's all hope the Editor returns rested from his trip and is ready to guide us again. Ed

    1. Ed: A miracle worker Philppe Couillard M.D. is not.

      Indeed the Editor puts together a good blog, but it's all gripe gripe gripe! The same old trolls that everybody gets taken into, and you still thinking the PLQ and now Philppe Couillard M.D. are the salvation of Quebec. Be prepared for bi-i-i-ig disappointment.

      An old dog can't be taught new tricks.

  8. I'm afraid the Editor is right - we are going to be stuck with this hate mongering, incompetent, bigoted, racist PQ government far into the future and if Legault sees the writing on the wall, he will join with the PQ and Bill 14 will go through albeit a little watered down but enough of it to stifle growth and further freeze our community out of quebec. If enough of the CAQ ministers defect to the liberals, maybe then we would have a chance to bring down the PQ but I'm not going to hold my breath. We have to hope that a lot of the CAQ ministers re-think their party status and leave to join the liberals. Meanwhile, no money in the coffers of the liberals is also affecting things so we have to hope they will have a membership drive in the near future to pick up some needed funding.

    1. In other words, you're all going to sit with your thumbs up your collective rectums and just let it happen. Think the Great Philppe Couillard M.D. will then reverse the damage the PQ/CAQ alliance will impose upon you?

      I can tell you his response right now: He won't change a comma of the law. Where have you heard that one before? Hmmmm?

      Mark my words. I have given you the answer.

    2. Well Mr. Sauga we are caught between a rock and a hard place and right now we have to pick the rock. I don't have any illusions about the liberals changing anything except they have voted against Bill 14 (although some of them hid in the bathroom and some stayed home sick during the voting procedure) which is the worst thing that can happen at the present time. As to their changing any of the other hateful bills, I'm not crazy enough to think that will ever happen. We will be placed back right where we were before the election with no other party to vote for so if you have a better solution, please bring it on. Discrimination will continue and I think we are all well aware of that.

    3. Cutie: From what you wrote above, you're going to get what you deserve. How is picking the rock going to help? The Editor has suggested some courses of action to implement, and I don't see any effort to implement. Beryl Wajsman has suggested some courses of action to implement, and I don't see any effort to implement. Howard Galganov took the time to both come in for the CRITIQ rally and again on the Canada Day weekend to rally the troops, but few showed up to both, and most were sexagenerians or older. They're retirees, have no children to tend to and therefore had the time and energy to attend the protests. Where are the young in all this?

      It is up to them to take the baton and run, but they're not. You'd think that my having moved to Ontario would prevent me from having what to do with Quebec, and it probably should. My resentment now has gone far beyond the language legislation itself. I want Quebec out of Canada because they hate the English, like Irwin Rapoport stated, 99% of Frenchies support language legislation and are indifferent to what happens to the English and they don't support true Canadian values. Worst of all, the rest of Canada is paying to support Quebec. Now that I pay my taxes to Ontario, I don't want MY federal tax dollars going to Quebec beyond what Quebec puts into the federal system.

      Quebec has become nothing but an expense to the rest of us, and they are whiners, complainers and nothing but antagonists. It's time to cut away the gangrene. Quebec has become the gangrene of Canada.

    4. And exactly what do you expect me to do about all this Mr. Sauga? You sound as if I alone can do something. I have joined as many groups as I can, publicized what is going on here as much as possible, tried to motivate people as much as I can, have written letters to the newspapers, FB, politicians and my own city council - what do you want from me? I can understand how you feel about your tax dollars going to the province of quebec and resenting it but you have to realize that I'm powerless to stop that also. I've said it a thousand times and will repeat it - our only voting choice is the liberals - there is nothing else to vote for at the present time. Until they get another choice up and running in this stinking province, we're stuck with what is there. Not voting is the only other option and then we give full reign to the separatists which is really stupid. I'm not ED - I know the liberals will do piss all to change anything - why should they? And I also agree - it's time to let THOSE AREAS OF QUEBEC GO THAT WANT TO LEAVE. Since I joined this blog, I have repeated this 1,000 times. Partition this GD place and kick the separatists out. 2.5 million people with their own f---ing country! I don't give a shit if they leave either but this is where I live so I have to fight to maintain my value in my home rather than let them bankrupt me - millions of us are in the same both here! Where are the youth in all this? How the hell would I know. I am only one person.

    5. Cutie: I'm not singling you out - far from it! It seems to be the same handful of people, like yourself, Galganov, Wajsman, Hugo Shebbeare and a few others who are toting the banner. From what I can see, Shebbeare is the youngest of the lot, and I imagine HE is in his forties.

      I can only conclude the young minorities are not dissatisfied. Perhaps they have been better prepared for the new Quebec, or have plans to leave. Don't take it personally. It's up to the youth the start taking responsibilities for their future - or not if they're comfortable with what's going on.

    6. I'm glad you weren't attacking me personally Mr. Sauga.

      It's hard to know what the hell can be done to make the youth of this province understand what "freedom of choice" really means. I think that the older people are, and following all the wars for freedom, the ones who appreciate it most and that's why they fight so hard against any one removing their rights. The kids take all of this for granted and most can't even be bothered to go to the polls except for the young militant separatists that are egged on by their leaders into believing that everything can be free including tuition and legalized pot is around the corner. They do not teach enough world history as far as I'm concerned. My son was taught very little about the world wars. The ones that could make a difference will not realize what they've lost until it's gone and their citizenship status is up in the air when they try to enter another country without a passport. Then it may register.

  9. Well seppies to remind you once again: English is as legal in quebec as French. Keep trying to deny it all you like but there it is.

    1. English is as official as French
      By William Johnson, April 3rd, 2013

      Even as English is again under attack at the National Assembly during the hearings on Bill 14, it is perhaps true that most Quebecers have been misled into believing that English is not also an official language of Quebec. But that’s entirely unfounded in fact or in law. English has been an official language of Quebec ever since 1763. Every law passed since then has been passed in English. Every law to be passed by the current Parti Québécois government will be passed in English as well as French, and the English text will be official, just as will be the French.

      English is part of Quebec’s very identity. That part is largely what makes the difference between Quebec and other former colonies of France, such as Guadeloupe, Martinique, Louisiana, Haiti, Vietnam or Algeria.

      So how has the myth been propagated that French is the “sole official language?” It began with the trickery of Robert Bourassa’s Bill 22 of 1974, the so-called “Official Language Act, which proclaimed – in English as well as French: “French is the official language of the province of Québec.”

      Did English cease thereby to be an official language of Quebec? Not at all, as seven McGill professors wrote in a lengthy legal opinion, published on July 19, 1974: “Section 1 which provides that French is ‘the official language of the province of Quebec’ is misleading in that it suggests that English is not also an official language in Quebec, which it is by virtue of section 133 of the BNA Act and the federal Official Languages Act. Section 133 of the BNA Act provides for two official languages in the legislature (in debates, the records and journals, and the printing and publication of statutes) and in the pleadings and process of the courts in the province of Quebec. No legislation in the National Assembly proclaiming French the sole official language in the province can affect these bilingual areas protected by the BNA Act itself.”

      This statement was signed by Quebec’s two most distinguished legal scholars, Frank R. Scott, dean of the McGill Law Faculty, and John Humphrey, the chief drafter of the United Nations’ Declaration on Human Rights. What they wrote in 1974 was then reinforced by the Constitution Act 1982, which further constitutionalized English and French language rights across Canada.

      When Camille Laurin prepared the first draft of the Charter of the French Language (1977), it contained several items which the Cabinet knew were unconstitutional, as is borne out in Jean-Claude Picard’s biography, Camille Laurin, L’homme debout (2003). But Laurin persisted to declare French the only official language of the legislature and the courts, according to his admirer Picard “even after all the jurists consulted by the government explained to him that this violated Section 133 of the Canadian constitution and that it would certainly be found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court of Canada.”

      And that is what happened. The Supreme Court of Canada, in its decision on Blaikie (1979) struck down the pretence that only French was the language of Quebec’s legislature and its courts. The court ruled: “Section 133 is an entrenched provision, not only forbidding modification by unilateral action of Parliament or of the Quebec Legislature but also providing a guarantee to members of Parliament or of the Quebec Legislature and to litigants in the Courts of Canada or of Quebec that they are entitled to use French or English in parliamentary or legislative assembly debates or in pleading (including oral argument) in the Courts of Canada or of Quebec.”

      Picard also quoted the then deputy minister of justice, Robert Normand: “I stressed to him, as had many others that the sections dealing with the language of the courts and of the National Assembly were unconstitutional, but he insisted on keeping them to the end and managed to convince everyone to keep them anyway in the bill.”

    2. There was only one exception on which Laurin gave in. His first draft of the Charter of the French Language had declared: “French is the only official language of Quebec.” But he relented when he was convinced that this would be struck down by the courts and so would undo the political effect of Bourassa’s statement in Bill 22. As Picard wrote on page 266: “And so he accepted to remove the word ‘only’ in Section 1 of the draft bill, which had stipulated that ‘French is the only official language of Quebec.’ But as for the rest, he got pretty much everything that he had wanted.”

      Those who say that French is the “sole” official language of Quebec are either misinformed or deliberately misinforming. English was, is and will be an official language of Quebec.

    3. Le globish est relativement officiel chez nous mais très mal perçu et ça vous n'y pouvez rien...Hélas :(

    4. A well reasoned, well supported thoughtful argument from Mr. Johnson, followed by an infantile turd sandwich from SR, if one were looking for a perfect example of the debate between Federalists and separatists one would have to look no further.

    5. Vous préférez les discours pompeux,techniques et inutiles à l'évidence thatguy?

      C'est vrai que la vérité a souvent un goût de merde,je vous l'accorde.Personnellement,je préfère les sandwiches à la tomate.

    6. That's why the Editor continues to permit him here... his infantile turd sandwiches do nothing but help the federalist cause.

    7. "...but help the federalist cause."

      Haha!Good one


    1. For habitual readers of what is very likely the world’s most-respected newsmagazine, and who may have reached their monthly article limit:

      Language in Canada:
      Polly wants un craquelin

      Jul 30th 2013

      EARLIER this month Canadians were shocked to learn that Bouton, an English-speaking parrot at the Montreal Biodome in the French-speaking province of Quebec, was being deported to Toronto following a surprise visit to the zoo by a representative of the Office québécois de la langue française (OQLF), the body charged with ensuring the primacy of French in Quebec. The story, published by the Beaverton, a satirical magazine, turned out to be a spoof. But Quebec's linguistic intolerance is all too real.

      Just ask Xavier Ménard. Mr Ménard wanted to list his firm with the province's company registrar but was rejected. The reason? His company's name, Wellarc, sounds too English. Mr Menard's protestations that it is a portmanteau of the French words web, langage, logo, artistique and compagnie fell on deaf ears. Such misplaced verbal intransigence last week prompted Mr Ménard to vent his frustration on YouTube (in French). The video has gone viral.

      Mr Ménard's predicament is no isolated incident. Quebec has strict language laws [ED: in fact, despite being the strictest language laws ever known to humanity, the PQ still feels an urgent need that they must be strengthened even further], zealously enforced by the OQLF. One statute makes French the "normal and everyday language of work, instruction, communication, commerce and business". It also authorises the OQLF to "act on its own initiative or following the filing of a complaint".

      The number of such complaints rose from 2,780 in 2009 to over 4,000 last year. In the past few months alone the OQLF has ruled that French shop signs be printed in font sizes three times larger than those in English, told an Italian restaurant to substitute pâtes for pasta on its menu (arguments that pasta is a perfectly good Italian word apparently cut no ice) and ordered a popular frozen-yogurt chain to replace its spoons with cuillères. Those who fail to comply face fines of up to C$20,000 ($19,500).

      Although the rules exempt trademarks, in 2011 the OQFL controversially decided that public shop signs constitute displays of business names, which are not protected. That would force big retailers with English-sounding names to change their shop fronts, at considerable cost. Best Buy, Costco, Gap, Old Navy, Guess and Wal-Mart therefore asked the Superior Court of Quebec for an authoritative interpretation of the law. The ruling is expected in October.

      The Parti Québécois (PQ), which currently runs Quebec, has not stopped there. It wants to be able to refuse to grant provincial-government contracts to federally regulated companies, such as banks, telecoms firms or railways, unless they abide by the rules. Pauline Marois, the province's PQ premier, would like all catalogues and brochures to have a French version, and to extend the requirement that any company with 50 or more workers prove the use of French throughout its business to all firms with more than 25 employees.

      In 1976, when the PQ, which is responsible for the linguistic legislation, first came to power, around 800,000 of Quebec's 6.2m people were English-speakers. By 2011 that fell to fewer than 600,000, even as the province's population rose to 8m. There may be plenty of reasons why Anglophone Quebeckers have upped sticks. Fleeing before they meet Bouton's hypothetical fate could be one.


    1. Go to "Select Profile"

    2. Select the "Name/URL" option

    3. Pick a name

    Simple as that.

    Shit, it's so simple even the resident seppie trolls on this blog can figure it out - why can't you?

  12. Aucun groupe de pression sérieux ne s'étant manifesté,tout porte à croire que le projet de loi 14 ira de l'avant.

  13. Now we're going to make it harder to immigrate to quebec even though these people don't stay. At least while here, they contribute taxes but being able to speak french is still more important than whether we need people with their trades and/or skills.

    1. Actually, while in quebec these immigrants dont pay taxes because they dont speak french and are unemployed. If we let french speaking immigrants in at least they have a better chance of a job. Vive le Quebec!

    2. It's always been a requirement that they speak french for heaven's sake. What they're doing now is making sure they speak better french than you do! Vive le Canada! And if I were you, I would worry much more about how many of you are employed rather than the immigrants because they are much more willing to work than a lot of the separatists in this province.

    3.'re arguing with a retard. Please let him go back to copulating
      with his sister.

    4. We seem to be attracting a lot of these nuts jobs lately. Wish they would return to live under the rocks they usually do.

    5. Claiming that "being able to find a job more easily" is the reason for now requiring advanced intermediate French prior to arrival is a red herring (not to mention that it will reduce cultural diversity even further).

      Quebec employers blatantly discriminate against hiring people with foreign-sounding names, even if they speak and write French better than someone with a French-sounding name, or don't have prior work experience in Quebec. Even immigrants from France often return home feeling disillusioned and betrayed by this homegrown attitude. If the PQ weren't so hypocritical, this is where they would focus their attention.

  14. I would be thrilled if they spoke better french than me but they dont. If they're so willing to work why are all social housing projects filled with immigrants? Listen they come from poor countries to quebec and all of a sudden they're given a house, furniture baby bonus and monthly cheques. They live a good life without working. Meanwhile our taxes keep going up

    1. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    2. One last comment to yet another troll - @ Mark: They're willing to work you dumbbell but your fucking pur laine francophone separatist friends don't want to give them a chance anymore than you do with the anglophone community. If they loved being the bums you seem to think they are, they would never leave this socialist backwash but they have more ambition than to be on the dole here and only stay until they catch on just what kind of insular, bigoted, racist animals we have produced in this province. They then pack up and leave no matter what language they speak beyond french knowing they will be appreciated other places in Canada or the US. Dummies - you don't even care that you are bankrupting this whole province with your crazy political agenda, wanting to be coddled to death and never having to work.

    3. "...other places in Canada or the US"

      Comme Détroit ou l'ontario par exemple ? :)

    4. They end up leaving cause their cousins in ontario let them know that they get more in welfare over there. By the way i'm english.

  15. Du bonbon :)

    "...and all of a sudden we understand, this is not a good place to be ... Bye Quebec. By the way i decided to move to Ontario and I dont have any regrets, only joy!"

    Vous voyez peggy,des centaines de vos amis le font...Pourquoi pas vous?

  16. S.R - Go take this test, you will fail. Likely because it's this language called "French", which is foreign to Quebecois. You guys speak-a-da hillbilly Joule, like d'em Ebonics.

    Seriously S.R, your French grammar is horrid. I lived in France for 27 years and we would be embarrassed if we heard you speak in public. Did you immigrate from Haiti maybe?

    1. Why are you Mark?

      In France we cannot watch movies from Quebec without having them dubbed into French. We cannot understand the language they are speaking, it is incomprehensible, unrecognizable and harsh on our ears. We do not understand why they say them must protect the "French language" in Quebec when they are destroying it with the abomination that is written and spoken in Quebec. If they really want to protect and promote French, they should offer classes that teach Parisian French to school children and adults in Quebec. It saddens me to hear Quebec French spoken, I feel as if they are molesting and tearing apart our beautiful language! Please, stop!

    2. "We cannot understand the language they are speaking, it is incomprehensible, unrecognizable and harsh on our ears"

      C'est exactement ce que nous ressentons quand on entend du globish...Pourquoi croyez-vous que nous l'avons pratiquement fait disparaître de notre environnement? :)

      "Oh ceasars" :D

    3. And what about you Jean Luc, does your english sound as beautiful as the british? We also get their movies dubbed in english. Big deal. Not all english speakers sound the same And neither do the french

    4. How dare you sir! I was born La Barre, France! I fear the French language will become obscure within three centuries from now. And be that as it may, it might surprise you to know I speak with a British accent.

    5. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    6. @Jean Luc

      Unless France itself becomes obscure, the French language will never be. Even if French has declined as an international language, it will still be important in continental Europe if only because France is still a major country in western Europe and can't be ignored.

      I'm not surprised about Quebecois films dubbed into French. In the movies Trainspotting and Snatch, heavily accented Scottish English and "Pikey" slang are subtitled in English. Also, Germany will dub films from "Deutschweiz" (German-speaking Switzerland) from Swiss-German into high or standard German.

      Speaking for myself, I am opposed to dubbing. I'm not afraid of subtitles and I want to actually hear the original actors speak their lines. Whenever I see a live-action film on TV and I realize the actors are speaking dubbed English, I turn it off and wait to rent the film on DVD. As an extra bonus, it's easier to learn a foreign language if you hear people speaking it.


    8. Mark just so you know British films/shows aren't dubbed, you're not supposed to understand Mr. Bean, I know it's the only VHS you own, but that's not how actual British people sound.

    9. I will not sacrifice Montreal! We've made too many compromises already; too many retreats. They invade our space and we fall back. They assimilate entire cultures and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far, no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!

    10. You are obviously referring to the PQ’s current attacks against anglo-Quebecers, something which has never before occurred against franco-Quebecers ever in its history, and which is much more vicious. It is indeed shameful what the PQ has done.

    11. We're with you Jean Luc - enough is enough. Partition this place and let those areas leave that want to go! Montreal, the Outaouais, the Pontiac and others will vote to remain within Canada and those nuts can go their own way. They're literally bankrupting us and couldn't care less. I no longer care what they want either - I just want them to get out of our way so we can prosper again!

    12. Jean-Luc: hahaha gj, seems like nobody noticed a thing, captain.


  17. Regardez ceci Jean Cule

  18. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  19. Whatever our glorious ancestors were thinking when they colonized such useless colonials as S.R will always remain a mystery.

    1. Ils ne pensaient sûrement pas devoir un jour apprendre la langue du colonisé,ça c'est certain.


    2. Our glorious British ancestors did a good job here as they did all over the world, despite the efforts of the Catholic Church to keep the locals backwards. A few bad apples doesn't change that.

  20. Another article that shows how crazy this province has become:

    1. Une autre anglo qui éprouve des difficultés avec nos lois.


    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

    3. Cutie, I posted the same story further down. I didn't know you had already done so. Please accept my apologies.

    4. The woman in question is francophone. The troll is such a bottomless well of dumb...

      Meanwhile, the STM gets another black eye, nationally this time, all because they won't accept $5 bills (similar values have long ago been available as coins in many countries). And then they wonder why people prefer to drive...

    5. No problem Edward. It happens to all of us. Thank you.

    6. Just to point out what such a stupid vermin S.R is, in the interview on CTV News Friday, Mme Tantost clearly speaks no English.

    7. As you can see Troy I was going to point it out to the idiot right after he posted the comment and then decided that I would stand by my word and not communicate with the stupid trolls. He obviously didn't watch the news about it or he would have known that she was as french as any other francophone in quebec but he went off without checking it out as usual.

    8. Je crois qu'elle s'est adressée au chauffeur en globish...Attendons la version des personnes concernées.

  21. FROM ED
    Dr. Couillard will be able to achieve unity after the election, he has the qualities needed to bring about conciliation. When the hospitals were in planning Jean Charest agreed with the planning committee that both French and English hospitals could be started at the same time. Unfortnately the French committee kept demanding more studies in inconsequential items. When Arthur Porter complained to Charest he called in the one person he knew could bring about harmony. Couillard achieved an accord in five days.
    He has been talking to groups and convrting whole groups of fence sitters to diehard Libs Of course it's not hard to do when you show people what Quebec is capable of economically. Sensible people agree right away. he has also been working with the leaders of the Roman Catholic Church encouraging them to broherhood with their anglo brethern, a move I suggested on this blog but was accused of being dotty and inane by Cutie. I was also told by Cutie that Dr. Couillard had never said he would give English people rights. I was called a Liberal lover. Well, I am a Liberal lover. I love anyone who can get us out of this mess and facts prove the Libs are the ones that can do it. If we don't campaign against the approaching cavalry we might be rescued. Ed

    1. @ed

      "Well, I am a Liberal lover."

      how can you expect to influence your rational readers when you tell them all you write is filtered by "love"?!?

      "...facts prove the Libs are the ones that can do it..."

      fact? what facts?!?


    2. FROM ED
      Incidentally, Dr.Couillard never said he would give English people rights, he said under his Premiership French and English would have equal rights, which amounts to EXACTLY the SAME thing.

  22. Well I cant say that I am shocked by the latest poll numbers. As i said before the CAQ is about as far to the right of any party in Quebec over the past several decades..hence not surprised that many Quebecers dont want to hear the truth..they are too honest for their own good. They want to cut waste, the debt, taxes, they want to challenge the unions and layoff workers in the government..of course this is all horrific to many Quebecers ears even though its they only way out of the debt mess we are in.

    Instead Quebecers would rather believe fairy tales from Couillard or Marois. I guess Couillard is preferable to Marois but honestly when you look at the performance of the Liberals next to the PQ I dont see much to brag about. The debt has gone up by as much or more under Liberal rule..taxes have gone up also..language laws have been passed under Liberal rule. But again most Quebecers want to play it safe and resort to the same old two parties even though neither have stopped the chronic decline of Quebec.

    It seems that we are destined to follow the footsteps of the PIIGS in Europe..will it take 3 years, 7 years or 12..I dont know but a funding crisis is coming here..a real estate crash also is a strong possibility across the country which could be the trigger. What will Quebec do when interest rates double in a year or two..where will they get the extra money from..taxes are already crazy high..will they be able to borrow more money..its simple math..a default is inevitable but then come the disastrous consequences..mass unemployment..massive job cuts..forced privatization..voters turning towards radical political parties. Its going to get a lot worse befre there is any hope of an improvement here and all Quebecers can blame themselves for electing fools to run this province for the past 50 years..for asking the government to give more and more..for accepting corruption, dishonesty and incompetence as the norm. Many people have the luxury now of a job, money and a decent standard of living so they can whine like stuffed pigs..when the collapse comes and people lose everything then they might start to focus on the basis things in life rather than the neverending languages issues.

    1. I would agree…Greece, Ireland…a crash is coming…who knows when but the greed of government, public servants (police, fire, teachers, hospitals…) is destroying future generations and no one in office is willing to talk about all the debt mounting federally and provincially. What a mess in the making.

      "We don’t want the party to end, the “free” trips, expense accounts…perks, gold plated pensions, free this, free that…Yes indeed, see we in government, are all entitled to our entitlements folks and we can’t stop that, at least not until we retire. Our unions say so, it’s ours and we want it now...$$” Nice eh? See what working for government has become? Go look at all the debt mounting. Governments all across Canada, the US… have been on a hiring binge, a spending spree for decades now. Government = police, fire, hospitals, teachers, lawyers…= high salaries, bonuses, pensions, perks… all out of control for decades now = More and more debt…making the connection yet?

      Decades of overspending…more and more debt, see what these people are doing to future generations?

      Record personal debt in Canada and the US…something has to give.

      Record low interest rates…for now…

      When and how does it end? Greece, Ireland, Californian, Wisconsin, Detroit, Kebec…all technically bankrupt…a real mess in the making and no one in government or the mainstream media (CBC, CTV…) is dealing with it. Nice eh?

      “Conservatives” have allowed all of these expensive, divisive liberal polices, and departments to remain. How come?

      Solution? Well only one folks - We need a new party, a new leader willing to deal with the facts, the truth for a change. We need a real fiscally conservative, common sense leader/party…. Things need to be cut, reduced and eliminated in all government. Government is too big, intrusive, and they are accumulating too much debt, year after year after year. That’s right let’s get cutting non essential services, expensive waste, bilingualism, multiculturalism, phony rights departments…the charter, CBC, all this green nonsense, bring in a government salary cap, a hiring freeze, reduce pensions… all sorts of big government BS. The future is at stake here and no one is willing to deal with this, how sad, how pathetic, all of you clowns in government and mainstream media.

    2. Sorry complicated - they would have done a hell of a lot better had they been a right wing, federalist party and stood up for Canada rather than being just another separatist bunch. That's what killed them from the start! They would have taken a lot more votes from the liberals than they did so it's their own fault. Now that they will support Bill 14 in one form or another, the have put the nail in their coffin. They will gain from no one now.

    3. @cutie003

      "...they would have done a hell of a lot better had they been a right wing, federalist party and stood up for Canada..."

      haha! that's the shittiest political analysis i've read between your last one and your next one. you propose a doormat style submissive provincial party. and right wing. i have no idea who'd vote for that except maybe a few angryphone canada lovers.

    4. Totalement ahurissant de voir tous ces "canadians" qui vivent au Québec depuis des annés sans jamais avoir eu aucun contact avec la réalité environnante.

    5. Robert Lepage, méconnu de la ministre du Patrimoine

      " députée manitobaine a expliqué qu'elle avait entendu parler de cet «artiste» dont la popularité n'était cependant pas aussi importante que celle de Céline Dion."


    6. And who gives a shit? Talk about insignificant BS.

    7. Quand allez-vous retourner au canada peggy?



  23. This post is slightly off-topic, so I perfectly understand if the Editor deletes it even if it is not offensive. I'm thinking of getting The Murder Stone by Louise Penny. (This book is published in my country under the title A Rule Against Murder.) It is a part of a series of mystery books starring Police Inspector Armande Gamache of the SQ, and the books are set in Quebec. How good are these books, and how accurate is the picture they paint of your province? Thanks!

    1. The title of the French translation is Défense de Tuer. Merci beaucoup!

      P.S. Unless is neglecting to credit the translator, it looks like Penny wrote the French version herself.

  24. FROM ED
    Complicated and James Wolfe, You might as well stop pipe dreaming, there is no perfect government. Marx and Enges spent 40 years researching a perfect government and all they could come up with was Communism which put all the control in the hands of one man, a dictator who was worse than the tsar.
    Conservative governments have been the worst spendthrifts and damaging. In Canada Diefenbaker, Mulroney and Harper have spent us into oblivion. Diefenbaker and Mulroney left their party desimated they were so bad. In both cases the Liberals brought us back to reality.
    You prefer to dream of the man on a white horse than accept the reality in front of you.
    Don't be like the people of old who prayed for a Saviour and when he came they killed him.
    Dr.Couillard can save us from the PQ's mess. For God's sake recognize this and help him help you. Ed

    1. No one said that there is a perfect government. The one thing I do know is that all this debt that we have accumulated since the 1960’s is from 2 parties federally and 3 parties provincially all across the country. The liberal and conservatives have been on a government hiring binge, a massive spending spree, growing the size of government for 5 decades now.

      If you think voting for the any of the mainstream parties is going to fix anything then you are the problem, you must be blind and/or stupid. Its these parties that have brought in all of the racist, bigoted language law’s (bills 22, 178, 101…) in Quebec…its these parties that will not repeal any of these laws. The liberals have been the worst but the conservatives, NDP, Bloc heads, PQ… are just as bad, federally and provincially. They have all added to the debt…they are one and the same. Wake up!!!

    2. @ed

      "You prefer to dream of the man on a white horse..."

      followed by:

      "Dr.Couillard can save us..."

      hahaha. you are a typing contradiction mate.


  26. For everyone's info. English is as "Official" as french in quebec under the BNA Act:
    This cannot be changed

  27. FROM ED
    So if we don't vote for any of the main parties, James, what would you have us do?
    Should we go for anarchy or wait for a new party that doesn't have a chance and leaves us with four more years of the PQ. Before you call others stupid, think. Ed

    1. @ed

      "...or wait for a new party that doesn't have a chance..."

      if you, a "liberal lover" vote for a new party it will defenitely have a chance, mate. think.

  28. To the Editor:

    I wanted to bring this to attention:

    What you see here is an example of consistent separatist behavior.

    When a transgression against a non-francophone group is brought to public attention, rather than condemn said transgression, seppies instead opt to find an equivalent example in Canada.

    When Bain set out to attack the PQ, all members of the anglophone community condemned it. We called the man out for what he is: a psychopath.

    Yet, in contrast, when convicted killer Paul Rose died, seppies had every reason in the book to justify his actions and when they were called out for doing so, they searched high and low on the interwebs to find violent transgressions against francophones.

    Any chance this 3rd-grader schoolyard mentality can be addressed in a future post?

    Just some poutine for thought.

  29. This comment has been removed by the author.


    2. FROM ED
      Anonymous Coward, what you're askng for has been done to death. After election night, we discussed it for weeeks. Apologists like Complicated and other trolls tried to say that English had transgressed against the French but could not find any examples or proof to back it up.
      However, a new look at it might bring out some interesting information. Ed

  30. Very interesting discussion going on at The Economist's FB page regarding Xavier Ménard's Wellarc and the overzealous OQLF, among others:

    1. Michael Boerm

      "I travel often to Quebec, and their language laws work wonderfully. In the 60's French was in the process of slowly dying due to English encroachment. The majority francophones had enough, and decided to assert their rights. Their slogan was "Maitres chez nous" (Masters in our own house). Today, French in North America is secure, immigrants no longer have a choice of English or French schools for their children (all go to French-language schools), businesses (even foreign ones) must conduct business in French, etc. All Weller's needs to do is find a suitable French name and it can do business in Quebec. It's not complicated."

      40 j'aime!

    2. Félix Soto

      "I came to Québec as an immigrant, had to go to french school and had to work in french. I therefore had to learn the language and I am proud of it. If these laws did not exist, I would have not probably learned it. I wish everyone would understand why do they exist and anglophones would stop with their anglosuperiority beliefs, and start for once learning other languages. A lot of people will not speak english to other immigrants because it is time for them to adapt and integrate. If they want to speak english, they can go and live in other provinces, but leave at least this ONE province french."

    3. FROM ED
      You guys know nothing about Quebec but you have the nerve to tell us to leave. Who the hell are you? I have been here 77 years, My father was born here in 1890. You think language is the only thing important in life. This province is our home and we, the English built it. The taxes we paid built school's and hospitals. We built the railroads and bus companies while Francophones shared them equally, but that wasn't enough, they wanted the whole enchilada. We founded the SPCA, the YMCA and Sun Youth. Francophones took the over by sheer weight of numbers. Unfortunately they have the numbers but not the brain power.Today we if we call any of these we are told by a French voice to dial nine.
      It is still English tax and donation that support these programs while Francophones on welfare are the ones who enjoy their benefits.
      As I sit on my gallery in the evening litening to my neighbours carrying on a conversation from gallery to gallery in loud voices I am thankful that I was born into an English family.
      We were raised properly. If we wanted to talk to a neighbour we went and sat beside them so the rest of the world didn't have to put up with our noise. I remember when I was about eight years old, my Fathe said to me on a bus, "Keep your voice down son. These people don't want to have to iisten to us."
      By the way, French was in the process of dying because French people found English an easier language with out the neuter gender. Most Franks in the fifties had stopped using the masculine/feminine b it even in French. Rene Levesque revived an archaic language that should have been left to die. he created a legacy of despair, hatred and murder. In the meantime the province is going down the drain financially and guys likeyu and them don't have the brainpower to see it. Ed

    4. Leo Romain

      "The above comment clearly illustrates the consequences the various ethnocentric psychopathologies of the hate cult.. Absolutely no concept of reality whatsoever. No grasp of individual rights, freedom of choice whatsoever. Poor Max assumes the entire world feels victim of anglo-supremacist, colonialist, Rhodesian imperialists...JUST BECAUSE he does. Cuz his hate cult tells him so.. poor Mad Max virtually cannot conceive of a world that can freely choose to speak whatever language they wish... of a world where individuals are free to choose."

    5. Will Sandiford

      "@Thierry Côté, you are incorrectly interpreting statistics. I was referring to anglophones and allophones, not the overall bilingualism level in the province, which is BOOSTED by the 85% of anglophones and allophones who can speak both French and English. The majority of Francophone Quebecers cannot speak or understand English at a basic level. I know because I see it every day with family and friends.

      I work in a very French company and 90% of the people there cannot speak or understand English. Guess who has the better jobs? Those like me who are bilingual/trilingual. Guess what the majority of the unilingual francophones do? They complain to the union about "too much English" instead of blaming their French only public school system that has provided them with the eloquent "kick the ball" and "toaster" English language "skills".

      Before you accuse others of not knowing statistics you should perhaps consider understanding that one should compare apples with apples. Again I was referring to the bilingualism of anglophones and allophones, NOT Quebec bilingualism as a whole, which is boosted by the high rate of bilingualism amongst anglophones and allophones.

      All that said, in 2013 mentalities have changed and you will be hard pressed to find anyone who is against the equal status of French in the workplace or society at large. What people are fed up with is the restrictions placed on anything non-French, the constant marginalization of minorities in French media (WHICH WE READ by the way) and the erosion of English education caused by the closing of schools due to the lack of new blood (immigrants and francophones are not allowed to choose English schools).

      Any way you look at it, 101 takes away RIGHTS to "protect" a majority from the minority in a jurisdiction. Whereas Canada's laws protect the French minorities across the country.

      Quebec acts like a minority when it bashes Canada, but acts like a majority when it imposes its will on its own minorities. You can't have it both ways, which one is it?

      And please stop with the sea of 300 million anglophones. 1) It's insulting as you paint anglophones as blood seeking Borg assimilators; they mostly mind their own business so stop the paranoia... 2) the only ones with jurisdictional power to do anything are English Canadians and they are promoting bilingualism so leave out the Americans giving you about 27 million to needlessly worry about.

      Finally, culture is much more than language. English Canadian culture is different from American culture. Yes they share a language, but Canada has universal health care, gun control, tighter regulations for banking and finance, a parliamentary democracy, and even tolerance for an open separatist movement constantly bashing the country. The US is nothing like what I have just described.

      In light of this, do you see English Canadians passing laws to restrict access to American goods or television/cultural products? Nope. They are not insecure about who they are. In fact many of them go make a lot of money in the US while maintaining their Canadianness.

      Very few people around the world would think separating from a country like Canada would be a good idea (providing no human rights were being abused). Only in Quebec will find this because about 30% of the people have been raised to believe in the outdated concept of ethnic nationalism (19th century idea). Quebec receives the most federal transfer payments (one being 8 billion in equalization) because it is considered a poor province in the federation. It's debt is at about $270 billion and goes up by $23 million a day, and they worry about LANGUAGE. Better to be poor and French rather than rich and diverse.


    6. Hopefully the 70% of non-separatist nationalist Quebecers will finally stand up firmly to say that they have had enough of the separatist nationalist movement which has caused the economic decline of the province for the last 50 years.

      Montreal used to be Canada's crown jewel, now it's Toronto. I mean the Bank of Montreal's HEAD OFFICE moved to TORONTO because of separatist nationalism. How sad is that? It's too bad because French and Quebec are beautiful, but some people are making both turn into something unappealing for many people, including for a lot of French Quebecers (see, a site for people who want to leave QC because of the politics, most are French).


    7. Jimmy Stavropoulos

      "There's protection of a culture and then there's cultural supremacy. The latter is the focus in Quebec, where people have applauded someone saying that if you can't ask for a bus ticket in French, then you can walk."

    8. Don McVicar

      Some things to consider for those buying into the idiotic "sea of English" rhetoric:

      Quebec spent centuries under the thumb of the British who were generally hostile to their language. Over time British control waned but during this period the population of Quebec grew from less than 500,000 to 8,000,000, mostly French speakers. This in spite of active campaigns to anglicize the province. By the time the 20th century rolled along, it was clear British attempts to assimilate were a failure [ED: the British didn’t do this] and French had endured quite well. Come the 1960s, the powers that be then decided to start legislating to "protect" the French language, in spite of its continued flourishing. The hostility was over but according to the PQ the time for tough language laws was now. What the PQ language laws are really concerning - because French is not under threat, not for 100 years or more - are alienating the Quebec Anglophone community. They want us gone, and their efforts to rewrite Quebec history show this. Our community has spent 50 years undergoing repeated attacks and disenfranchisement. It is considered acceptable politics to campaign against our community's presence in Quebec. 500,000 of us left initially, with more going during times of PQ governance. These parties want to gloss over the terrorist actions of the FLQ, they want to enforce a false secularism charter that bans all religious symbols but with French Catholic ones considered culturally important...

      The whole "Sea of English" argument is also tired and useless. To compare, Israel is the only Hebrew-speaking nation in the world, completely surrounded by militarily hostile Arab-speaking states, and yet they allow bilingual or multilingual signage (Hebrew, Arabic, English, etc). Or take the case of Finland and the way it treats its minority Swedish speakers- 8% of a town's population or 3000 speakers means the city can be declared officially bilingual. And Quebec likes to compare itself to states like Finland as "progressive". They have to earn that comparison. Right now they have more in common with Arizona and Texas than they do with Finland, Norway or et al.

    9. Will Sandiford

      Please keep in mind that in the past immigrants were NOT allowed in most cases to go to French school, as was the case for many of my Italian family, due to the racism of French Canadian priests and nuns who ran the French school system prior to the Quiet Revolution. So please stop playing the victim card QC nationalists. A lot of English speaking allophones (mother tongue neither English or French) exist today because of this dirty truth, not because they voluntarily chose English to spite the French.

      Two, language laws do not only require French to be mandatory, otherwise no one be they French, English, Chinese etc. would have any problems at all with the laws. We all recognize and support that French be kept alive as it is a source of enrichment and most of the non-French are bilingual.

      The actual laws however RESTRICT the rights of anything other than French and THAT is the problem. Telling someone that they cannot put up a sign in multiple languages providing that French be present is discriminatory. The compromise of allowing another language as long as it is half the size of French is also hogwash. It sends the signal that the real citizens are the French speakers, the rest to be ignored and marginalized. Hence why people get attitude for speaking English when they go about their daily affairs. Unless of course you are American, then they are hypocritically nice and bust out decent English.

      It is a childish attitude. Provinces like Ontario do their best to accommodate their French minority. Quebec tries to annoy English speakers enough so that they leave the province, increasing a chance at separating Quebec from Canada.

      I live in Quebec, am 100% bilingual (actually trilingual as I speak Italian), and have a French girlfriend. I understand French culture.

      Unfortunately, the 35% of separatist nationalists cause all the problems, just as any nationalist movement ever recorded in history.

      Quebec has to be one of the only places in the modern western world that proudly proclaims that they are ETHNIC nationalists. Everywhere else has been trying to go towards CIVIC nationalism where entrenched constitutional rights are what bind citizens, not blood or language and tradition.

      Ivancho Arellano

      Jonas, what you do is called "deflection", and others in this post have called you on that as well. It means you change the topic when you can't refute or properly counter what's been presented to you, in this regard your anecdotal experiences are meaningless as academic data proves that the reality on the field is the opposite. You seem very good at it BTW, that whole victim act is golden right there.

      Regarding the rest of your comment, yes, your desperation to defend abuse and discrimination in the province is clear from the numerous posts you've made here directed at pretty much anybody stating an opinion different to yours. Crazy xenophobic nationalists are not anything new on FB, don't think that you're groundbreaking here buddy. Carry on.

    10. @ed

      "French people found English an easier language with out the neuter gender."

      "...they have the numbers but not the brain power."

      "It is still English tax and donation that support these programs while Francophones on welfare are the ones who enjoy their benefits."

      "Most Franks in the fifties had stopped using the masculine/feminine..."


      dude you now do racist fiction? err... i don't think it will fly. most people prefer non-racist fiction.

    11. Jimmy Stavropoulos: "There's protection of a culture and then there's cultural supremacy. The latter is the focus in Quebec, where people have applauded someone saying that if you can't ask for a bus ticket in French, then you can walk."

      This is true, but QC nationalists have taken control of the language and terminology of the debate and equated (or at least tried to equate) supremacy with survival. Many QC nationalists will tell you that only through "la primauté du français" can the French language survive on the continent. They will also tell you that only French-speakers having the best jobs "peut assurer la survie du français en Amérique du Nord".

      I'm glad that there are a lot of people like Jimmy Stavropoulos who see right through this charade. However, as an immigrant who observed QC Anglos a little, I must admit that some Anglos have bought it and agreed to self-flagellate for the sins that have been ascribed to them. (Some have use the term the Stockholm Syndrome to describe the behavior of these QC Anglos, which is a good term I find).

      In the end, an assertion like "I will survive only if I have supremacy" is a way to guilt-trip people into accepting the supremacy of some over others. Because if you oppose the supremacy, a culture will die. This is such an insidious ploy, I find, because even if it could be proven with scientific precision that only supremacy can save you, it is still supremacy which you demand, i.e. a highly unethical, anti-social, unethical social arrangement.

  31. Well, given that this story continues to have traction in the news, I thought I might as well provide a translation of this article that appeared in the Journal de Montréal last week:

    The Streak of Bad Luck for Linguistic Scandals
    By: LISE RAVARY - 26 July 2013

    Who manages priorities in the language dossier? Who ensures that efforts are put to good use in the right place? Who checks that we do not shoot ourselves in the foot, as we did with Pastagate? As far as protecting, promoting and revolting decent people is concerned, where is the limit? That is what drives this blog.

    I was rather taken aback yesterday by a YouTube video made by a young entrepreneur from Gatineau, who poured his heart out after discovering the winding pathways of our valiant language knights, in defiance of common sense. His story is quite telling. (Here Isabelle Maher’s report in today’s Journal: )

    Xavier Ménard, 17, wishes to start a graphic design business. He decided to call it “Wellarc”, a name made up from scratch, neither English nor French, nor indeed anything at all. A “wordoid”, in marketing language. More and more companies are turning to these false words in order to find a name that is both original and available. Good names are like good guys, already taken.

    This is how the business world has found itself, over time, with companies named Sony, Accenture, Napster, Provigo; words that mean nothing and are no one’s name.

    Do you want to know how Xavier found the name “Wellarc”? It’s simple: it’s from the first letters of web-language-logo-artistic-company.

    So, when it came time to register “Wellarc” with the Business Registrar, Xavier Ménard was categorically refused. The name “sounded” too English, he was told. According to a spokesperson from this section ofRevenue Quebec, “Wellare Graphic Designer” or “Wellare Graphic Design” would have conformed to Bill 101, but not “Wellarc”.

    I’m sorry but “Wellare” sounds a lot more English (“well are”) than does Wellarc! What are they smoking at the Registrar’s office, anyway?

    More importantly, since when is Bill 101 meant to demarcate the use of invented words based on languages that don’t exist? Who decides that a given word “sounds” too English, and based on what criteria? I don’t know about you, but I think that “Provigo”, with its suffix 'go', sounds pretty English, doesn’t it? Hello, OQLF?

    The image that comes to mind is that of Don Quixote tilting at windmills.

    Even worse, we are talking about a 17-year-old who wants to go into business. Go into business! Not to go on welfare, or to deal dope in Émilie-Gamelin Park. Quebec suffers from a significant lack of young entrepreneurs compared to the rest of Canada. As you can see, all is done to encourage them ...

    Moreover, “Les Affaires” magazine reported this week that Quebec entrepreneurs are amongst the least optimistic in the whole country. You don’t say.

      But there is worse than Wellarc. According to the language zealots, not to say the language crazies, business names such as “Vetréseau” and “Medréseau” are not considered French either. In order for them to comply with Bill 101 (according to the interpretation made by Registrar employees, which is a division of Revenue Quebec), they ought to be spelled “Vétréseau” and “Médréseau”. Simply by saying the words aloud, one can obviously see that these are not at all the same thing! And yet somehow, the entire Francophonie is able to understand that “vet” is short for veterinarian. One goes to the “vet”, not to the “vét”.

      At issue once again is a young entrepreneur, Maxim Meunier, a 26-year-old veterinarian, someone else who does not understand why the government feel the need to throw a spanner in the works.

      Our reporter, Isabelle Maher, who wrote an article about this in today's Journal, informs us that the tightening of the rules and their erratic application started about a year ago. “We no longer know what to expect,” she was told by a lawyer specializing in the field.

      In order to simplify everyone’s lives, the OQLF has has shut down its microsite,, which had been created in 2011 as part of a communications campaign regarding business names and trademarks.

      The premier keeps saying that Quebec wants to do business and that the government wants to create wealth by investing in initiative. Chapter 4, Section 4 of the PQ’s program reads: “We will develop youth entrepreneurship.”

      Note that it does not say “We will overcome difficulties thrown in the way of young entrepreneurs.” We are promised, at best, lovely chrome-plated government programs, with nothing but 100% French names, guaranteed.

      NOTE: In desperation, I am sharing this. This week, I lost one of my daughters. Lost to Ontario, bright, educated, bilingual, with a superb resume, at home anywhere in the world although being in love with Montreal, she could no longer endure the social and political climate in Quebec. A choice candidate, she quickly found a great job with a new communications firm in Toronto.

      That’s her choice and I judge her not. I feel sad and also worried about our future. How many of our young, who are resistant to identity politics, big government and eternal linguistic quarrels, also find themselves in the same position? Will they make a similar choice?

      Meanwhile, in order to replenish our coffers, we need to resort to immigration, without having the means to implement integration policies that make any sense.

      My God, where are we headed?

    2. FROM ED
      These stories are great news. The fact that Isabelle Maher published them in the French papers is exactly what we've needed. The government doesn't care, they think protecting language is worth a little embarrassment. More important is the fact that this will reach the hoi polloi. The masses that need to know what is going on. This is what will drop the PQ in the standings and eventually bring about a call for an election. Governors who walk with their noses in the air ignoring the little people soon find out that while one bee sting doesn't do damage , a lot of little bee stings can kill you. Brian Mulroney, Diefenbaker and Chretien found that out and left their parties decimated in their wake. The French Quebecers are already seeing things going bad in the province. Hard nose separatists that I speak to are beginning to ask questions and are losing faith in their leaders. Isabelle Maher and Alain Dubuc are Francophone columnists who are soft on language and are not afraid to challenge the government. Write to them and ask questions about why the French people don't know the truth about certain things. It can help stir the pot. We need to get the Francos in the street with their pots and pans, start them calling for an election. Ed

    3. @ed

      isabelle maher? what has she got to do with anything?!?

      "...separatists that I speak to (...) don't know the truth about certain things."

      that's totally bogus. what things, mate? that phrase is a textbook example of a propaganda line coming from a mean activist who just wants to fuel an fire. lack a source? invent a guy you talked to. too entrenched to admit there are no good examples or too lazy to find one? just claim there are some. you're as bad as one can get, ed.

  32. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTMonday, August 5, 2013 at 12:02:00 PM EDT

    Both sides of the debate are wrong. I know many quebecois pure laine who do not care about the language crap in quebec and are neutral to anglos, and even think they are an asset to la belle province. Then on the side there are the extremists.
    If people can see beyond the labels, all is ok after all.
    If anglo rights are so violated why are there only a mere dozen posters here?
    I say that 90% of anglos in quebec are happy with the way things are. Those who arent hit hwys 20/40 ouest to Ontario.

    1. Deux cultures totalement incompatibles.

  33. This may have been your most intelligent post un gars. I agree totally..most francos are pretty neutral..its the franco AND anglo extremists that stir up the pot.

    The only real change that will happen in Quebec is once the system in Greece..Spain and so on. Nothing will change until them..people will just keep re-electing the same people over and over somehow expect things to change when there is no hope of change when you keep electing the same people over and over. Humans have a really hard time embracing real change unless something really dramatic happens. We will need a crisis to wake up people here. Anglos will continue to vote for a useless Liberal party and francos will oscillate between the Libs and the PQ. So the decline continues until interest rates spike and we have a funding crisis. Then we may see even more radical parties come into power..if you think the PQ are bad can you imagine Quebec solidaire??

    If unemployment spikes in a year or two I predict many people..francophones especially..will whine for help from the government..more spending..more debt..and quebec solidaire will make all sorts of promises such as free education, a minimum salary for everyone for life whether or not you work or not, more government jobs and people will embrace it.

    1. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTMonday, August 5, 2013 at 1:07:00 PM EDT

      quebec is definitely on the fast track to economic collapse; it's pure facts.
      When one earns $1 but spends $2... sooner or later checks and balances must be carried out.
      We are going to quebec on vacation later this week, visiting family and friends. I'll see how the place is doing by observation of the economy. A visit to carrefour dix/30 is a given for me.
      From the Conference Board of Canada:
      "Quebec faces a hard economic road ahead—much harder than the economic prospects for the Western provinces, and even for Ontario. Despite its large fiscal deficit at present, Ontario’s economic growth prospects will continue to outshine those of Quebec. With some of Quebec’s political leadership in apparent denial about the coming economic reality and the limited policy options available to them, it will be difficult to foster the stronger economic growth that will be needed to pay for its treasured public services and to sustain rising living standards."

      This is extremely telling:
      "the fact that Quebec is a net recipient of fiscal transfers from the rest of Canada is understood by only a small fraction of the population."

      And this:
      "Real annual economic growth of 1.5 per cent or less will make it very hard for Quebec to sustain its health care and public education systems in their current form."

  34. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTMonday, August 5, 2013 at 1:53:00 PM EDT

    The PQ government needs to establish a new Ministère de l’embarras, whose goal is to embarrass the province of Quebec and its population. They are already doing this effectively and consistently, but only in an informal, ad hoc way. This goal of bringing shame to Quebec needs to be recognized as one of the main platforms of the PQ’s governance. The work would divided into local, Canadian, and worldwide embarrassments, although there would be much overlap of course.

  35. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTMonday, August 5, 2013 at 2:11:00 PM EDT

    quebec's declining demographics will be the sole reason for its imminent economic collapse; less young adults to pay taxes to support the ever growing number of senior citizens, an eroding tax base, "under the table" work, ever increasing taxes to naively try to counterbalance the losses on the books will inevitably lead quebec to become another Greece.

  36. can't post from my personnal computer, i think i was banned

    1. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTMonday, August 5, 2013 at 3:13:00 PM EDT

      Highly unlikely; I know a few trolls that would be banned first before anybody:D

    2. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTMonday, August 5, 2013 at 3:45:00 PM EDT

      @ TT

      Qui? Moi?

    3. @ugbsdf : Pas de toi que je parlais

  37. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTMonday, August 5, 2013 at 3:37:00 PM EDT

    quebec's infrastructure is rusting and falling apart. Montreal-wide hydro failure right now!!!

    1. ok enough bashing for today.

      this latest burst should have shut your monsters for a while.

      hope you have less nightmares tonight, mate.

  38. I am watching the Rogers Cup - the men's one from Montreal - and I need to make a comment.

    Right on the center of the court, near the net, there is big sign "ATP World Tour". On the wall behind the players, the ads say "Fly Emirates" and "Emirates Airlines U.S. Open Series".

    No comment from the OQLF? I do not see French having any predominance.

    Just like adski's comment the other day, the OQLF, with the extension to the Quebec government, only have the balls to persecute the small players. They are quite impotent when it comes to international money.

    1. Il ne s'agit pas d'affichage permanent,voilà la distinction.

    2. From the government's official site:

      58. Public signs and posters and commercial advertising must be in French.

      They may also be both in French and in another language provided that French is markedly predominant.

      However, the Government may determine, by regulation, the places, cases, conditions or circumstances where public signs and posters and commercial advertising must be in French only, where French need not be predominant or where such signs, posters and advertising may be in another language only.

      1977, c. 5, s. 58; 1983, c. 56, s. 12; 1988, c. 54, s. 1; 1993, c. 40, s. 18.

      Funny, I can not see the permanence of the signs to be a criteria. Maybe there is a secret version of Bill 101 that you have? What I see is the government's discretion. And in this case, the government is simply impotent.

    3. Walmarde,Best buy,target,Staple,KFC,starbuck,Second cup,etc.

      Des petits joueurs?Ça va bien la tête...troy (drôle de nom pour un asiatique)?

    4. "Il ne s'agit pas d'affichage permanent,voilà la distinction."

      I don't think so. If a small player were to put up a temporary sign which did not "respect" la primauté du français, that sign would be reported by a language vigilante and then written up by the OQLF.

      This has to do with the OQLF carefully picking their battles, especially that they were recently schooled by the "Big 5"'s legal recourse against descriptors.

  39. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTTuesday, August 6, 2013 at 6:20:00 AM EDT


    Do NOT feed the troll. He is paid to "rebuke" posters...

    1. One thing that I find interesting, though.

      My child is in elementary school. In number of times he tells me that some of his classmates make fun of his name. They just change his name to something that makes no sense. He also retaliates by making other nonsense about his classmates' names. So I think that it is a typical behavior of children in elementary school.

      When I come to some separatist fora, I see the same thing. They like to change the names of Canadian entities into some nonsense. Examples are Canaya and a Tawa. No, I am not talking about S.R specifically. He is just one example of many.

      That makes me think. Maybe, just maybe those separatist actually have the maturity and the intelligence of elementary school students.

    2. @Troy there's no maybe about it.

      And that's why the movement is on its deathbed.

      Only the most unsophisticated members of society contribute to the movement.

      Good for us, bad for them.

      Moi, j'aime le le walmarde et le mcdo aussi. :-)

    3. "Only the most unsophisticated members of society contribute to the movement."

      "Moi, j'aime le le walmarde et le mcdo aussi. :-)"

      La quintessence du terme paradoxe ou de l'absurdité ?

    4. Troy, you can rest assured that when it comes to demonstrating one’s intellectual prowess, name-changing is scraping the very bottom of the barrel, the absolute nadir, and it is entirely consistent with elementary school children’s abilities.

    5. Yet, I've read KKKebec and Kaybec countless of times on this blog

  40. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTTuesday, August 6, 2013 at 10:36:00 AM EDT

    quebec real estate and resale prices to collapse?
    Less sales and higher prices has nothing to do with supply & demand. It is the fall off the edge for home prices in quebec.
    I would sell now...

    1. What do you think we've been talking about since the election - No one wants to move here therefore you can't sell anything! No investment, no real estate values. Hundreds of thousands of homes for sale at rock bottom prices and no buyers so how can we sell?

  41. UN GARS VRAIMENT SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTTuesday, August 6, 2013 at 10:40:00 AM EDT

    @adski Tuesday, August 6, 2013 at 10:13:00 AM EDT


    Here: "nine out of 10 investors accepted as immigrants to Quebec “do not speak Quebec’s official language"

    1. Vous arrive-t-il parfois de songer à ce que pourrait être votre vie si votre esprit n'était pas obnubilé par l'argent et les biens matériels?

    2. "Vous arrive-t-il parfois de songer à ce que pourrait être votre vie si votre esprit n'était pas obnubilé par l'argent et les biens matériels?"

      This is a very right-wing blog in that respect. A lot of people who post here see life through "investment", "bottom line", "growth"...They reduce human relations to economic activity as if other modes of relations were impossible.

      That's not to say that an obsession with "culture" is a good thing. Many people on the left have drunk from the kool-aid of identity politics. That's what's killing the left and alienates a lot of left-leaning people, including me.

    3. Well adski -I'm also left leaning but common sense and reality have to come along with that outlook. I would love if I didn't have to worry about the equity in my home or balancing my bank book. That is the problem with the separatists - there is no reality in their thinking and practicality is something they don't or can't seem to relate to. I know they don't give a damn about equity in their homes because they have no intention of ever leaving this place so therefore they will die in the homes in which they reside but they are playing with the whole social network of quebec and Canada and risking everything on emotion. No reality exists with them only crazy dreams of being wealthy, which you can explain to them over and over, and they just don't get it. No jobs that's OK, no equity in their homes, that's OK, no investment because of demands from their separatist government, that's OK, - somehow they have the illusion that all will be peaches and cream if they just let their incompetent PQ government handle another 50B dollars. Wow, so stupid that it's beyond comprehension.

    4. Personally, I was rather shocked to be called "right-wing" by you-know-who when I am no such thing. Only an actual communist could possibly think such a thing.

      Also, the feds have finally decided that this scam by the Quebec government is going to have an expiry date. Quebec is much more lax about accepting investor-immigrants, taking in double the number of applicants than the rest of Canada does and thus turning Quebec’s redundant program into a preferable way for potential immigrants to quickly get accepted. Over 90% of these immigrants promptly leave Quebec, mainly to Vancouver, and meanwhile Quebec rakes in their immigration fees while B.C. shells out for their healthcare costs.

    5. R.S,

      While it may be true that Quebec reaps the immigration fees from immigrants who go through Quebec system, the ultimate destinations* gain their investing money, knowledge and productivity. Therefore, IMHO, ultimately Quebec is the loser in this scheme. What can be said though, is that Quebec knows that the big-money immigrants will not stay in Quebec anyway. So rather than let them pass completely, Quebec tries to gain a bit of profit by letting them in and paying the fees.

      *I am not sure about Vancouver. After all, Ontario is still number one destination for immigration to Canada. I would say that Toronto still accepts more than Vancouver does.

  42. I consider myself a realist and hence often tend to come down more on the right wing side. Its fine and dandy to have all these nice utopian ideas and social programs and what not but very few leftist governments can balance a checkbook in the end. Actually many right wing governments also have a hard time balancing a checkbook but I believe most right wing governments do a better job of dealing with unemployment and have a better understanding of how to create an environment favourable for a functioning economy.

    The reality of our times is that capital can move very easily across the globe now..the world has become much more competitive than in the past. A company can easily shut a factory down and move anywhere. We may have certain leftist beliefs here..we may think we deserve a certain amount of pay, a certain level of benefits, a certain standard of living but then there is the real world. There are billions of people around the world who would work for less than most canadians, for less benefits, hence in the end where do you think most companies are going to go when looking to establish new factories.

    It actually amazes me how many companies still have operations here in Quebec when you look at the demands made by unreasonable unions, high taxes, anti-business climate in general. I know for a fact that many canadian companies refuse to open up shop here because its not worth the aggravation and i certainly cant fault them for that. The bottom line is that all governments will always need a certain number of local enterprises and individuals who are wealth creators otherwise the government runs out of cash and will eventually become bankrupt. Quebec is in the early stages of going bankrupt..we see it in the crumbling infrastructure, the massive debt load, the chronically weak economy, the massive corruption, etc.

    I suspect as the economy deteriorates here over the next 2-3 years you will see more and more quebecois flocking to the utopian quebec solidaire. We have created a whole generation of people who believe the government is there to provide them with everything..the government should educate them for free, the government shouly pay for their health care, should find them good jobs guaranteed for life and on and on. These utopians have never really lived in the real world and hence when things get worse they will look for anybody who promises them the utopian lifestyle even if in the end it results in chaos. We are heading towards Greece, Spain, Portugal status within a few years IMO.

    1. " Its fine and dandy to have all these nice utopian ideas and social programs"

      I am realist too, that's why I don't share utopian ideas of unlimited growth, inexhaustible natural resources, indestructible environment, endless consumption and pursuit of profit as an end in itself.

      "but very few leftist governments can balance a checkbook in the end. "

      Right-wing governments can't balance a checkbook either. They run deficits on defense and corporate subsidy, e.g. Ronald Reagan or Bush. Money is over-spent anyways, the only difference is where it goes.

      "when you look at the demands made by unreasonable unions, high taxes, anti-business climate in general."

      "Anti-business climate" is not necessarily bad if by "business" you mean large corporate entities like Walmart that stifle competitive spirit by taking everything over and setting up monopolies.

      "There are billions of people around the world who would work for less than most canadians, for less benefits,"

      That's not the reason to justify driving Canadian wages down. It's the reason to demand that wages in the Third World be driven up. Companies like Nike are rich enough to pay their labour decent wages. The reason why they don't is not because they can't, it's because they don't want to. So it would be better to work to empower the Third World labor than to accept their misery as some sort of a baseline to which we have to adjust in order to be "competitive".

      I don't advocate irresponsible lifestyle or spending or debt (that's what business interests advocate through advertizing much more so than any government). What I am advocating is profit sharing, as in: don't tell me to be competitive with slave labour in third world when corporate profits are through the roof, meaning that there is wealth to be shared while the lack of sharing is defended with euphemisms like "lean" and "competitive", i.e. the greediest of us all telling us not to be too greedy, and working class Joes like you buying it and supporting it.

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