Friday, May 3, 2013

Quebec's French Delusion

"Meantime, a Quebec City company testified that Bill 14 is just one more barrier in the global economy.
Workers at G.E. Leblanc don't speak much English, the company makes precision metal parts for the pork industry, and all but a handful of the 150 on staff are completely Francophone
But the software to manage the inventory is mainly in English—an industry standard—Quebec’s language office has already instructed the company to translate it
“We tried to be conform with the law but unfortunately they didn't understand what we are doing,” said Marie-Pier Cloutier, speaking for G.E. Leblanc.
The company's English software links it with global partners, colleagues around the world will be able to get real-time updates—in English only
“With the Chinese and the Danish and everybody working for the company, we will have to work with the same words,” explained Cloutier.
Whether they need a bolt for a belly opener or a shaft adapter, employees at the company ask for the parts by name in English because that's the way they were taught in school.
Knowing the English names of parts is where most employees' English ends. However they want to learn more and the company is providing English lessons at lunchtime.
“If we cannot find any people speaking in English, then we may as well shut down,” said company executive Marcel Couture."  Link
The story above can be straight out of a Monty Python sketch, the utter foolishness reminds me of the inspirational story of King Canute commanding the sea to hold back the tide.

Such is the surreality of the efforts of successive Quebec governments to make Quebec as French as Alberta is English, all the while telling Quebecers that it is not only possible, but possible without affecting prosperity.

Instead of seeking a reasonable accommodation with English, the PQ is trying to control what is in effect uncontrollable.
Like all governments that impose rules and measures that run counter to the marketplace, there is a mighty price to be paid, in Quebec's case that price is prosperity.

The question remains; Can Quebec become exclusively French and if so, can it maintain its prosperity?

Unfortunately for hardliners, the answer to each question is a resounding NO.

There is a lie being perpetrated by the PQ and its coterie of language hawks, that tells Quebecers that they can and should expect to live in a world exclusively in French.
It is a lofty ideal, one that plays well to the faithful, sold by ideologues who are as unrealistic as those members of King Canute's court that told him that he could stop the incoming tide.

While the OQLF fan out across Montreal terrorizing small businesses and restaurants over signs and menus, the underlying reality is that when push comes to shove, the Quebec government caves when it comes to the big companies.
Any major employer can ask for and receive a waiver to operate in English (as long as they do it behind closed doors) and while the OQLF makes a great hoopla over this 'authorization' it is an open secret that the government would never dare lose a major employer over language, it would be suicidal.

The only suckers who don't get exemptions are the small fry or those (like the company described above) which the OQLF determines won't leave the province under any circumstances.

The OQLF plays a masterful game of political gamesmanship by giving exemptions to companies they deem at risk. For the rest, it's tough noogies.
But many companies that don't hold waivers operate in English with impunity because the OQLF chooses to turn a blind eye, like Quebec's vaunted video game industry which was lured to Montreal with massive tax subsidies.
If push came to shove over language, these companies could relocate in five minutes flat and the OQLF knows it.
It is a testament to the cunning calculation of the OQLF that no company has up and left noisily over language like Sun Life.

Here's a list of companies granted official waivers that allows them to operate in English;

Name Agreement TypeSince
Air Liquide Canada inc.Head Office2011-09-15
Anachemia Canada Co.Head Office2012-06-26
Anachemia Canada Co.Research Centre2012-06-26
Autodesk Canada CieResearch Centre2009-12-11
Avon Canada inc.Head Office2011-10-28
Bauer Hockey Corp.Research Centre2011-09-15
Bombardier inc.Head Office2012-06-26
Bombardier inc.Research Centre2012-06-26
Bombardier Transport Canada inc.Head Office2008-09-12
CAE inc.Head Office2012-06-26
CAE inc.Research Centre2012-06-26
CMC Électronique inc.Head Office2012-05-11
CMC Électronique inc.Research Centre2012-05-11
CMP Solutions mécaniques avancées ltéeHead Office2011-05-27
Compagnie Beaulieu CanadaHead Office2011-12-09
Compagnie Canadian Technical Tape ltéeHead Office2012-06-26
Compagnie minière IOC inc.Head Office2011-09-15
 State Street Global ltéeHead Office2011-03-25
Corporation Gatx Rail CanadaHead Office2011-12-09
Corp. MacDonald, Dettwiler et AssociésResearch Centre2012-02-03
Domtar inc.Head Office2012-06-26
Éricsson Canada inc.Research Centre2012-05-11
FPInnovationsResearch Centre2012-05-11
General Dynamics Head Office2011-09-15
General Dynamics Research Centre2011-09-15
Kaba Ilco Inc. Research Centre2011-03-25
La Corporation McKesson Canada Head Office2011-10-28
Laboratoires Abbott limitéeHead Office2011-09-15
Laboratoires Charles River services Research Centre2011-12-09
Lafarge Canada inc. Research Centre2010-12-10
Gildan inc.Head Office2009-01-23
Lockheed Martin Canada inc. Research Centre
2013-04-26
Manufacture Leviton du Canada ltéeHead Office2012-10-26
Medisca pharmaceutique inc. Head Office2010-05-06
Medtronic CryoCath,Research Centre2012-10-26
Mega Brands inc. Head Office2009-09-11
Mega Brands inc. Research Centre2009-09-11
Minet inc.Head Office2013-03-22
Montship inc. Head Office2011-10-28
Novartis Pharma Canada inc. Head Office2011-06-10
Oracle Canada ULCHead Office2012-09-14
Pfizer Canada inc.Head Office
2011-10-28
Presagis Canada inc Head Office
2011-10-28
Presagis Canada inc Research Centre
2011-10-28
Recherche BCAHead Office2013-03-22
Recherche BCAResearch Centre2013-03-22
Reitmans (Canada) ltéeHead Office2013-01-25
Retraites luxueuses InternationalHead Office2013-03-22
Rio Tinto Alcan inc. Head Office2012-03-23
SAP Canada inc.Research Centre2012-12-14
Reader’s Digest (Canada) Head Office2012-05-11
SNC-Lavalin inc. Head Office2011-09-15
Solutions AirwideResearch Centre 2009-10-23
 Peerless Clothing inc.Head Office2012-10-26

And so the OQLF pretends that the rules apply equally to all but enforces the rules selectively according to a cockamamie formula whereby only those who are likely to obey are targeted.

It reminds me of the time where one of the locations in the chainstore that I helped manage was the subject of a fire department inspection.
Of course there was some minor infraction that resulted in a letter and a warning which peeved me because the store was brand new, in a brand new shopping mall.
I called the inspector and asked him why he was inspecting the stores anyways, considering that the downtown shopping core of the city was a ramshackle collection of old buildings, not one of which could ever pass the most minor of inspections.
He candidly told me that the stores downtown were too poor to live up to the fire code and if forced to do so, would close! So the fire department chose to visit the mall.
...Ha! Enforcement à la Bill 101!
Impose the rules on those who can and will obey. The rest...fu-ge-da-boud-it !

That is why the OQLF decided to push large retailers like Costco and Walmart to add descriptors to their names, calculating that the companies would comply because of the economic stake they had in their properties.
Their only miscalculation is the lawsuit launched by those affected.

So it's easy to understand why the OQLF is attacking American giants and not attacking Canadian giants like Canadian Tire or Tim Hortons.
The OQLF chooses its fights judiciously and the firestorm of bad publicity that would reverberate around Canada related to such an attack is a prime consideration, not to mention the fact that there isn't a court in the land  that would side with the agency in telling a company that has operated under the 'Canadian Tire' banner for over seventy years that it must now change its name.

The OQLF continues to play a mug's game in enforcing the law where it can while turning a blind eye where it can't.
That is why toy cars must be labelled in French, while real cars continue to have English only dashboards.

Lately the OQLF is making noise about forcing appliance and electronic manufacturers to add French labeling, another costly waste-of-money that will never come to pass.
Most of the offending English words are molded into the product itself and changing it would cost a fortune, something that the appliance manufacturers won't do no matter what.
It is the same problem as car dashboards.

In light of this selective enforcement policy it is easy to understand why the OQLF requires first run Hollywood movies to be dubbed into French.
The same goes for video games where the government is also pushing for French translations while mysteriously exempting books and magazines.
Obviously books and magazines are not as important to Quebec culture as movies and video games.
As I said, the OQLF chooses its fights.

I recently visited a store in New York City and came across a product that intrigued me in relation to the issue of language in Quebec.
It was a book that was hollowed out to create a compartment meant to hide valuables.
Would this product be legal in Quebec?
The English-only book itself would be legal in Quebec, because books are exempt, but since it was no longer a book, but rather a fake book, the English-only made it illegal.
Are you following me?

There is a whole host of niche and specialty products that cannot be brought into Quebec because of language and the OQLF's response that no product can be sold without a French label is final and just means that Quebec consumers are short changed from anything like sex toys that are banned because of language to hollowed out book safes.
Did I say 'final'?
Well not always, the OQLF is nothing if not practical. After banning Jewish specialty food products imported from the USA because of the lack of French labels, the agency relented and opened up a window during certain holidays where the foods could be brought in without translation.
And so you can see, the agency can display a pragmatic side, notwithstanding that it's never a good idea to start up with the Jews.

By the way, a lot of this forced French is paid for largely by English Canadians. When a movie chain pays to dub a Hollywood movie into French, the cost is divided among ticket goers across the whole country, with ticket prices remaining the same for English and French versions.

That is why dashboards remain an English only affair, because car companies have repeatedly told Quebec that if French is mandated on the dashboard then Quebec consumers alone would have to pay for it. And so for the OQLF, an appropriate time to mettre de l'eau dans son vin.

It isn't strange that Quebec's economic decline is neatly paralleled by the rise in language extremism.
It's sometimes hard to see the forest for the trees, but there can be no mistake that ever since the PQ's rise to power in 1976, it's been a precipitous downhill economic tumble worthy of Jack and Jill.

Separatists will find all sorts of reasons for Quebec's stagnation, from the St. Lawrence Seaway to the discovery of oil in Alberta and Newfoundland. Anything but language, which can never be fingered as the culprit because well, they just don't want it to.

Those of us old enough to remember Quebec as a powerhouse, the center of the Canadian universe can only be saddened to see how far we've fallen.

Last week I listened to separatist wunderkind Mathieu Bock-Coté complaining one more time that Montreal is anglicizing at an alarming rate, (which in separatist talk means that a sign went up in English somewhere in the downtown core,) and all I can do is shake my head at the utter brainlessness of the contention, a hallmark of the whiny French language movement.

If Mr. Bock-Coté took a 'Twilight Zone" trip to Montreal circa 1960, he'd probably have a heart attack at what an utterly bilingual city it was back then. Perhaps he would be so flabbergasted by the assault of English that he'd fail to see what a powerful success the city really was back then.

The PQ's proposed Bill 14, meant to stiffen Quebec's already burdensome language laws will further drive Quebec down the path of economic ruin by making language demands that cannot be met.

As English resistance to language intolerance stiffens, the horrendous publicity engendered by the  likes of 'pastagate' convince more and more investors and employers to stay away.

One of the hidden realities of Quebec economics is that in order to attract new investment, the Quebec government must cough up an ever spiraling host of subsidies, which now stands at four times the rate of Ontario.

All this is hidden from view, as are the investments that never came or never will.

Montreal is fading fast as a business centre, it's airport soon to become the fourth busiest in Canada and it's head offices fleeing or fled to Calgary and Toronto. It's no wonder that there hasn't been a decent office skyscraper built in over twenty years, with none in the works.
By comparison Toronto has fifteen skyscrapers under construction today.

This is what happens when Quebec's language law butts up against reality of business and no matter what French language hardliners tell us, the more French Quebec becomes less English Quebec becomes, the poorer it will be.

The cost of Frenchifying Quebec has been staggering and for language militants remaining delusional about it won't change reality.

275 comments:

  1. Equalization provides a disincentive to correct the situation the Editor describes in his editorial, above.

    The worse the economy gets, the more equalization payments will be.

    Thus, the negative effects of Bill 101 are camouflaged.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Right you are, Tony! I wrote our prime minister a message with a five-page attachment (sending the Editor a copy with my permission to place it in this blog) about why equalization should be eliminated in Quebec. Equalization is supported on Ontario's and Alberta's backs, and Ontario cannot afford that burden any longer. Sadly, ten years of the Ontario Liberals has added $132 billion to Ontario's debt, and Ontario cannot any longer afford to pay out equalization.

      I wrote what I did to Harper because I wanted to ensure a full fiscal year before the formula comes up for changes. I reminded Harper how John James Charest duped him for $700 million; furthermore, the GTA public transportation bureaucracy, Metrolinks, proposed it will take $50 billion over the next 25 years to build a proper transportation infrastructure. We can't afford the tax burden being proposed to do this, and besides, why shouldn't those equalization dollars come back to Ontario to invest in something that will provide a return vs language bullshit? Infrastructure that will reduce costly economic delays resulting in more income taxes vs language bullying that has and will continue to reduce investment in Quebec.

      Building score: Toronto 15 Montreal 0. As far as I'm concerned, returning equalization dollars with investment in Ontario infrastructure vs Quebec language legislation that is economic pissing against a wall? It's a no-brainer...isn't it?

      Delete
    2. On another topic that more closely represents the subject of today's blog, what's happening with the food store that sells Pasta Marois salad? Is the language SS going to charge down on Mr. Shick's establishment? Will the anti-Bill 101/14 forces come down to save his establishment? Will they come in numbers? Will they come with bats, guns and other weaponry? Will other merchants get the same protection (if any), if the big bad language wolves come after them? I guess Mr. Shick is putting it to a test. I hope his community doesn't let him down.

      Delete
    3. Mississauga,

      Equalization is supported on Ontario's and Alberta's backs...

      This sentence can not be true as Ontario itself is an equalization recipient.

      Delete
    4. To follow up on Tony Kondacks' point, the absurdity and the irony of the situation is that it is Canada's pro-Quebec economic accommodation (whether out of good will or out of fear) that allows Quebec to be anti-Canada. Without Canada, Quebec could not afford being so anti-Canada, it would have to assume a much more neutral stance, or even a friendly one. So it is Canada's helping hand that sustains Quebec's hostility. Ironically, without that helping hand, there might be less hostility and more maturity.

      Delete
    5. Troy, Ontario pays truck loads of money to Ottawa. The fact that we receive a bit of it back under the heading of "Equalization" does not made this province a sponge on the rest of the country. Quebec, on the other hand, when everything is netted out is a sponge.

      Delete
    6. Troy: You wrote "Ontario itself is an equalization recipient" and you're absolutely right; HOWEVER, notwithstanding that fact, Ontario is still the largest NET contributor to the equalization formula. Sometime ago, I met tête-à-tête with Ontario's current finance minister for he is my MPP (MNA equivalent in Ontario), and what Ontario in effect is receiveing is a token dividend in comparison to what it pays out in equalization. If you take into account what Ontario contributed less what they received, Ontario is still contributing the lion's share, and I'm fed up, and I'll fight tooth and nail against a disloyal Quebec receiving the money for total and utter bullshit.

      Electricity is expensive. Ante up! Conserve like the rest of us!

      Childcare is expensive. Ante up, save for those earning very modest wages. This should absolutely not be a universal program. Raise the daycare to $15-20 per day. That's still cheap.

      Delete
    7. adski writes:

      "Without Canada, Quebec could not afford being so anti-Canada..."

      Intuitively, I think there is a connection with the above and what Stephane Dion famously said: "Bill 101 is a great Canadian law."

      Well, he was half right.

      Delete
    8. Mr. Shick says that since all this has happened, his clientele has changed. How, you ask? He has MORE francophone customers now!

      http://www.cjad.com/Shows/BarryMorganShow/Podcast.aspx

      April 29 - Barry Morgan show.

      Delete
    9. Oops wanted to post that below! I will repost it there, sorry.

      Delete
  2. La survie du commerce de Mr. Shick dépend des communications (en globish) avec ses multiples fournisseurs et partenaires extérieurs?Moi qui croyait que ce n'était qu'un simple marchand local de pâtes et de pâtisseries.Ses clients anglos ne pas assez intelligents pour voir la différence entre un Paris-Brest et un éclair au chocolat ou entre des raviolis sauce tomate et des macaronis en salade?

    Hmm...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Ses clients anglos ne pas assez intelligents pour voir la différence entre un Paris-Brest et un éclair au chocolat ou entre des raviolis sauce tomate et des macaronis en salade?"

      Je connais plusieurs Anglos avec une meilleure maîtrise du français que certains (I'm not saying who)séparacistes.

      And while we're on the topic of Mr. Shick, all I can say is too bad not all businesses are as easy to run as a Gloryhole...

      ...Hmm ;-)

      Delete
    2. Au fait,qu'est-ce qu'un "gloryhole" M.Résidu?

      Delete
    3. "Je connais plusieurs Anglos avec une meilleure maîtrise du français que certains"

      Pour ma part, je connais des Francos qui ont une meilleure maîtrise de l'anglais que la vaste majorité des Anglos nord-américains. Certains de ces Francos ont évidemment appris l'anglais britannique.

      D'ailleurs, au lieu d'apprendre cet anglais bâtard que les Canadiens-anglais partagent avec les Américains, les Québécois seraient mieux avisés d'apprendre le vrai anglais, soit l'anglais britannique. Que ce soit en faisant venir au Québec des enseignants britanniques ou en employant une méthode d'anglais britannique éditée par Larousse.

      Delete
    4. "au lieu d'apprendre cet anglais bâtard que les Canadiens-anglais partagent avec les Américains, les Québécois seraient mieux avisés d'apprendre le vrai anglais, soit l'anglais britannique."

      Ouch. You sure know how to hurt our feelings. I don't think I'll ever recover from this.

      Delete
    5. Ah bon! Et que dire du Joual vis-à-vis du "vrai" français?

      Delete
    6. Il est question ici de langues écrites.L'étape suivante du joual est le français du nouveau-Brunswick soit le franglais.

      Delete
    7. I've met many Y.L's in my life and they do actually have a use in this life. In this case, it's to expose the fact that for the separatist movement it clearly is about the eradication of English and not the protection of French as they so ardently claim.

      If there's at least one thing I can give Bock-Côté credit for is that he's for the most part dropped the pretense of acceptance and more or less admits (in off-handed ways of course) that he has a disdain for non-Francophones and would much rather NOT have them in "his" province, while weekend warriors like Y.L and GloryHole actually attempt to have us believe they would accept Anglos and Allos under certain conditions.

      This of course is not Y.L's first blatantly anti-Anglophone/anti-immigrant tirade and therefore, I'm neither surprised nor insulted by his Jeunes Patriotes rhetoric.

      Besides, how can you take your adversary seriously with "éditée par Larousse"?

      Delete
    8. Comment pouvons-nous prendre au sérieux un intervenant qui se nomme "Resident Evil"?

      Delete
    9. "Ah bon! Et que dire du Joual vis-à-vis du "vrai" français?"

      Good one Y, was about to use the same line to our seppie trolls ;)

      Delete
    10. "Comment pouvons-nous prendre au sérieux un intervenant qui se nomme"

      Much more seriously than the poster with the "nomme" SR :)

      Delete
    11. Correction, Westerner, his name is actually "The Gloryhole artist formerly known as S.R"

      New, longer name, same mind-numbing rhetoric.

      Delete
    12. S.R.:

      It is not for you or the government of Quebec to decide how Mr. Schick conducts his business.

      If he wants to be a bad businessman by not putting up the proper signage to accommodate his clientele, then let his clientele go elsewhere and Schick can suffer the consequences.

      Delete
    13. "Il est question ici de langues écrites.L'étape suivante du joual est le français du nouveau-Brunswick soit le franglais."

      Ah bon! Parce qu'entre l'Anglais Britannique et l'Anglais Américain, il y a une terrible de différence écrite!

      Mais tu as raison, S.R., le Français du Nouveau-Brunswick est de piètre qualité. La différence étant que je ne fais pas la leçon aux autres.

      Men who live in glass houses should not throw stones. :)

      Delete
    14. Reposted from above.

      Mr. Shick says that since all this has happened, his clientele has changed. How, you ask? He has MORE francophone customers now!

      http://www.cjad.com/Shows/BarryMorganShow/Podcast.aspx

      April 29 - Barry Morgan show.

      Delete
    15. Tant mieux car il aura besoin de beaucoup d'argent afin de payer ses contraventions :)

      Delete
    16. "Tant mieux car il aura besoin de beaucoup d'argent afin de payer ses contraventions :)"

      ...oh you mean the ones he refuses to pay and will very likely beat in court? Are those the fines you're talking about?

      Or are you just angry because his illegally-captured Anglo money won't go towards your $7 a day daycare?

      Delete
    17. "...will very likely beat in court?"

      Vous croyez que ce sera le premier raciste à se casser les dents sur la charte de la langue française?

      Hahahaha!

      Souhaitons bonne chance au vendeur de nouilles!

      Delete
    18. Y.L,

      Why is it a problem for you which version of English one uses? Here in Toronto we have people from New Zealand, Malaysia, Barbados, the U.K., the U.S. all with their "version" of English. Any problem? No. Big no.

      Speaking of which, there is a company in Montreal called Deluxe Digital Studios. It does translation for DVD in many languages. Funny enough, that company has separate parts for translators who do Metropolitan French and Canadian French. Meanwhile, there is no distinction whatsoever for productions come of the U.S., the U.K., Australia or New Zealand.

      Delete
    19. The Anti-'King's Speech': When British Hits Don't Translate to U.S. Audiences

      http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2012/09/the-anti-kings-speech-when-british-hits-dont-translate-to-us-audiences/262096/

      Une exception?

      Delete
    20. I fail to see where your argument is, as the article writes clearly writes:

      ...The King's Speech, which was released in 2010 in the U.S. for Oscar qualification; while not quite as popular here as there, it still made well over $100 million in the U.S. and was in the year's top 20...

      On the other hand, there was Mario Dumont who complained that Parisian French was something Quebec children did not understand.

      Delete
    21. Troy, he needs to act uppity like this because he knows he will be spending the rest of his life as UN PEUPLE CONQUIS… :)

      Delete
    22. "D'ailleurs, au lieu d'apprendre cet anglais bâtard que les Canadiens-anglais partagent avec les Américains...."

      You say this with a straight face when you pollute our ears with your 'joual', day in and day out? What is joual if not a bastardized version of a most poetic and beautiful language...that is French??

      Shut the f...up already...please.

      Delete
    23. The lesson, AnecTOTE, is not to agree with them that there are "ugly" and "beautiful" languages. Languages are just different, not any better or worse.

      Delete
    24. I beg your ..pardon????

      Do you actually consider "Joual" to be a "Language"????? (and allow me understand this)...as such, "different...not better or worst"??
      WHAT???? Did you fall on your head again???

      "Joual"...is not a Language,it's not even a dialect.......it's fingernails on a chalkboard.

      Delete
    25. Yannick is right, you are basically using S.R and Y.L argument in reverse.

      Delete
    26. Merci Guillaume. Tu as tout à fait raison.

      Delete
    27. Anectote : That is ENTIRELY what I'm saying. Any manner of expressing yourself that can be understood by someone else is a language, dialect or not, codified or not.

      Where I agree with others is that if you speak an obscure dialect, you should learn a more standardized version of the language so that you can communicate with people outside your immediate community.

      But it does not make your regional dialect wrong or ugly. Engaging in that kind of shaming of people over something they have no control with (i.e. their roots) is just as racist as Y.L.'s nonsensical diatribes over "first class" and "second class" anglophones.

      By engaging in the same behaviour, you show you are no better than him. When you do, you sound like the anglo version of a PQ.

      Delete
    28. "But it does not make your regional dialect wrong or ugly. Engaging in that kind of shaming of people over something they have no control with (i.e. their roots) is just as racist as Y.L.'s nonsensical diatribes over "first class" and "second class" anglophones. By engaging in the same behaviour, you show you are no better than him. When you do, you sound like the anglo version of a PQ"

      Oh brother...what the f... are you going on about now....I don't think the German Language is a particularly attractive language, judging by your silly rational, I'd be racist about Germans, cause I find their language irksome??? In my opinion, Joual IS ugly. It is a distortion of a beautiful language and they shouldn't call it "French".

      BTW...You of all people should knock off this... 'holier-than- thou-attitude', as it hardly becomes you. Now please move along.

      Delete
    29. My my, mr. AnecTOTE doesn't like to have his bullshit called out. I'd knock the holier-than-thou attitude, but... when it's you we're talking about, it's hard to not actually be holier.

      Whether you like it or not, Joual is French. It's not any less French than Cockney or Southern US dialects are English. To say that a language is not your favorite is one thing, to imply that Joual-speakers are inferior to "French"-speakers is discrimination. There's no way around it, too bad.

      Look at what you wrote and picture two ethnicities judged on looks instead of two accents judged on "prettiness", and tell me it's not racist. I dare you.

      Delete
    30. You are insecure Yan...and that is what I'm calling YOU on.

      I never said anyone was inferior to anyone else, perhaps you should re-read what I wrote, this time..with an open mind...try it sometime...it'll do you good.

      I stand by what I said. I personally do not consider Joual a Language, and it does pollute our ears, I have no appreciation for it whatsoever. I'm sorry if this wounds people, but I'm entitled to my opinion. AND...I'm not the only one who feels this way. If I had more time and I actually gave a crap, I'd tell you about an amusing little incident that happened just this Friday night in a Crescent Street Resto, where a friend & former colleague of mine (who is Francophone and franglais and Joual are a huge pet peeve for her), starts telling the people behind me off because she couldn't stand to hear them speak anymore and to make her point, she told them, that, I, as a minority, speak better French than they do ...as I sat there quietly nibbling on my pizza.

      You read your own interpretation into what I wrote ....as you do often, and you do this because you're always on the defence and your perception is skewed. I'd do something about that if I were you, it would lend greater credibility.

      Delete
  3. I wrote this observation before and I will write it again as it is relevant with the topic of today.

    The construction industry and its unions have been long a supporter of the separatist and the French-primacy movements, if those movements are not indeed the same. In a number of my professional years in Montreal, I was involved in the construction project management for commercial buildings.

    To my surprise, all the user interface for construction tools and machinery are unilingual English. Go see a forklift, a backhoe or a crane. From the warning labels to the instrumentation and control are only in English. The same thing goes for the construction materials. Lighting fixtures, pipes, HVAC, electricity equipment, even some paints and insulating materials are packed in English only. Remember, I am talking about industrial-type supplies, not the ones that one buys in Home Depot or RONA.

    So I asked around. The answer is that most of the construction supplies come directly from the manufacturers in the United States. They are not 'Canadianized' as they are used by the contractors and not for retail. As the American market is 10 times of Canadian, they have the economy of scale.

    In relevance with the story, should OQLF not interfere since it is clearly a violation of the construction workers' right to work in French? Remember that majority of construction workers are unilingual francophones.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Troy: I suggest Quebec customers be given the option of paying extra to have French labels affixed, or the customers can affix the labels themselves. Only customers demanding this should pay, not all Canadians. This goes for everything marketed to and sold in Quebec.

      Delete
    2. I think the construction workers and the OQLF should put their money where their collective mouths are and refuse to utilize construction equipment that insults them by not having French instruction manuals and all that.

      These proud quebecois and quebecoise should insist upon using hoes, pitch forks, and other rudimentary implements, such as horses and buggies, which respect the letter of the law (hoes and horses don't need instruction manuals). Okay, it will cost quite a bit more and much more time to build the roads and edifices needed but, hey, no sacrifice should be large enough for the glorious French language which, as the preamble to Bill 101 tells us, is "is the instrument by which that people has articulated its identity." And, besides, more people will be employed and the federal government, through equalization, will pick up the extra costs.

      Delete
    3. Hi Troy,

      I had the opportunity to spend a few hours in the Pierre Elliot Trudeau airport lately.

      I couldn't help but notice that all official signs had English and French in equal amounts, and that the wheeled container vehicules in which we were unboarded from the aircraft had English-only instructions on the levers and commands.

      It's intolerable that a poor Francophone worker is not given the right to work in French. Someone really ought to call the OQLF.

      Delete
    4. Yannick,

      I hope you are serious as I can not tell the tone from what I read.

      If you are serious, that is right. Why does the OQLF not make any crackdown to specialized equipment, particularly in light that the workers are unilingual francophones? Remember that they told Joe Beef Restaurant to cover the on/off switch on the stove simply because it shows ON and OFF.

      If you are being facetious toward me, my post is in support of the Editor's position. That is that OQLF (and those in the separatist movement, by extension) only do the trouble to those deemed "safe" to bother. Imagine the shit storm OQLF will reap should it tries to bother ADMTL.

      Delete
    5. My outrage is facetious, what I am doing is agreeing with you by being toungue in cheek.

      I think it's retarded to worry about on/off switches, but what's good for Joe Beef is good for the ADM, isn't it?

      Delete
    6. Yannick, Trudeau Airport is federal property; ADM is merely the operator. As with bridges, national parks and historical sites that are also federal property, bilingual signage applies. It's only vulnerable small-business owners such as restaurants that get bullied by the OQLF.

      Delete
    7. Ah, but remember that it is the PQ's pipe dream to apply 101 to all Federal institutions.

      Which presumably means bigger-than-english federal signage in Montreal.

      Delete
    8. Actually the PQs pipe dream is to have only French in Quebec, everywhere, in an independent Quebec.

      Delete
    9. Fine, but applying 101 to federal institutions is something that they're interested in doing right now, as opposed to waiting for "winning conditions".

      Delete
    10. R.S,

      The fact that Trudeau is federal property makes it fall under the Official Languages Act. Meaning that all forms of communication there needs to be done in both languages. As it is located in Quebec, French takes priority while still being equal. Priority here means that French is located on the left or on the top or mentioned first.

      While OQLF can not make any intervention there, it certainly can raise the issue should French is not represented in accordance to the OLA. Apparently - based on Yannick's observation - French is indeed not represented on some specialized tools or equipment. It seems like nobody can do anything about it, on Federal and Provincial levels.

      Delete
  4. "If we cannot find any people speaking in English, then we may as well shut down,” said company executive Marcel Couture."

    On every email I write at work, there are people on 'cc' from the US, UK, India, or Malaysia. To this will be added China (new office just opened in Beijing), South Africa, and the EU (offcies in Germany and France). Every meeting, no matter how small, has someone coferenced in from outside Quebec. In our weekly group meeting, there is me and two other guys in Montreal, plus a guy from NY, a guy from London UK, and a guy Malaysia on conference. A company wide meeting held every month via teleconference features a mandatory talk from the president from London. Like many businesses, the one I work for is global. Francising it would be impossible. Any harder push from the government, and the Montreal branch would be in Ontario within a month, with many jobs lost.

    ----


    "Last week I listened to separatist wunderkind Mathieu Bock-Coté complaining one more time that Montreal is anglicizing at an alarming rate, (which in separatist talk means that a sign went up in English somewhere in the downtown core,) "

    Like all PQists, Bock Cote manipulates language to peddle his views. The phrase "anglicisation of Montreal" misinterprets present day reality, it implies that Quebec has been purely French and an influx of English is now threatening a "natural" order. In fact, the colonial language English has historical legitimacy here as much as the colonial language French, temporally French has been here not so much longer than English, ethically both French and English have been brought here by colonizers so none of the two has any moral high ground. So the presence of English here is as natural as the presence of French, no more no less. In order to be honest in describing reality, Bock Cote would therefore have to use the following language: "it is alarming that state-sanctioned de-anglicisation of Montreal is running into so many problems", instead of: "Montreal is anglicizing at an alarming rate". The English language here is the object, not the subject. Englsih is not invading, it is being driven out.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Come to Ontario, adski! You'll love it! Give it a chance, your eyes will open and you'll see how Ontario is moving forward while Quebec is the Mississippi/Alabama of Canada. Backward, backward, backward!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Mr. Sauga,

      How DARE you insult Mississippi and Alabama.

      Unlike Quebec, segregation has been outlawed in Mississippi and Alabama. :-)

      Delete
    2. Adski, avant de partir pour l'Ontario, il faut que tu saches, d'une part, que l'Ontario ne fait que commencer à être une province pauvre. Comme le démontre son entrée récente parmi les bénéficiaires de la péréquation. Sans compter que son déficit et sa dette seront encore plus importants dans les prochaines années.

      D'autre part, la solidité de son économie dans les prochaines décennies n'est pas garantie. Car en sa qualité d'économie de succursales américaines, l'économie ontarienne dépend de la bonne santé financière des Américains. Avec leur dette publique faramineuse, il est raisonnable de croire que bientôt ces derniers subiront le même sort que les Grecs et les Espagnols. Quel sera l'état de l'économie ontarienne après la chute des États-Unis ?

      En tout cas, les Ontariens devront davantage explorer de nouveaux marchés d'exportation. En auront-ils alors la capacité ? Auront-ils la créativité nécessaire pour réussir une telle reconversion de leur économie ?

      Une population ontarienne empâtée par les bénéfices tirés de la présence de la fonction publique fédérale et par son statut lié à être une succursale américaine, ce qui la contraint à ne faire ce que les autres lui disent de faire et non à innover, pourra-t-elle relevé le défi de la diversification de son économie et de ses marchés d'exportation ?

      Une population habituée à n'être tournée que vers les Américains pourra-t-elle intéresser le reste du monde à ses produits et services ?

      Delete
    3. I love this guy!

      Seriously, Y.L embodies all that is so hilarious about the seppies and their sheep-like groupthink.

      I mean, I'm here in Toronto right now and what do I see every time I look up in the sky?

      Cranes - shitloads of them. I'm seeing $650K homes being sold within 7 to 14 days of going on the market.

      See, there of course are reasons why Ontario is feeling the pinch right now, but it really is nothing more than an elastic effect. Don't forget, Toronto is the startup capital of Canada and ranks 5th overall in the world.

      Adski is clearly and educated, qualified individual.

      He obviously does not need to run a hole-in-a-stall to earn his rent money. He sure as hell doesn't have to deliver smokes and overpriced luncheon meats on a bike for the local dep like Y.L does.

      Business owners in Ontario are doing fine. So are educated professionals and well-trained tradesmen.

      Who's eating shit in Ontario? People who used to work for Zellers. That's who.

      Anyhow, it's not like Adski would ever take professional advice from Y.L (who clearly has never left QC). That'd be like asking the panhandling wino on the corner for stock advice.

      Delete
    4. Oh Tony, not to worry, I have enough chutzpah for everybody here. There is a distinct (pardon the pun) difference between the law and how society follows the law. The KKK are still alive and kicking in those parts as is the QQQ in Q-bec. The U.S. Civil War ended almost 150 years ago, but there are those who still live in and long for those days. Just because the law says one thing doesn't mean the whole population complies with it, and you know there are endless ways to circumvent the law. In the deep south, Tony, ils se souviennent!

      Delete
    5. "He sure as hell doesn't have to deliver smokes and overpriced luncheon meats on a bike for the local dep"

      Honestly, I have no problem with people who deliver things from the dep. Though I am educated and work a white collar job, I still identify with the working class a lot, much more that with the "executives", "businessmen", "managers", or "professionals" I have to work with every day. Might be the working class roots of much of my family (though not of my parents), or it might be personal experience that led me to realize that pomposity of many "professionals" does not much their self-professed skill or claimed usefulness to the society (especially true for medicine). Reading people like Ivan Illich confirmed much of my experience about the cultural consequences of professionalization of the society.

      Delete
    6. "Come to Ontario, adski!"

      Thanks MGuy, but I hope it will never come to this. As impressive as Toronto's development is, it is just not for me. The city is a triumph of business over culture. Highrises, freeways, concrete, and urban sprawl. A quintessential North American city.

      Montreal would suit me fine if aggressive nationalism just went away once and for all. Otherwise, I wouldn't mind moving back to Europe one day.

      Delete
    7. Vous êtes (Malgré tout) un type sympathique Adski :)

      Delete
    8. does not *match their self-professed skill or claimed usefulness to the society

      Delete
    9. @Adski Culture is in the eye of the beholder. I've never understood where this stereotype that Montreal towers over Toronto in terms of "culture," but by opting to pursue a white collar position, you're contributing to the perpetuation of business growth. Attending plays, raves and visiting the Jazz Festival won't alleviate inner conflict.

      Reading NOW magazine (Toronto's version of VOIR), I can see that Toronto clearly has many options open to people who are looking to indulge themselves in the arts. And let's not forget Kensington Market (Troy, did you try that Jamaican jerk chicken place I recommended?).

      I really don't see how Montreal is superior to Toronto, especially considering that it's "culture" has largely receded over the past 20 years. Walking around Toronto these past few days, I really only see a few cosmetic differences between the two, which is sad, because there was a time when Montreal summers were something to look forward to.

      As for Europe, depending on what parts of what countries you go to, there is still very rampant nationalism to contend with.

      Delete
    10. Résidu est réellement un grotesque personnage avec ses grattes-ciel et ses "gloryholes".

      Delete
    11. Actually S.R, if you were to consider moving to Toronto, your struggling gloryhole enterprise might just pick up again and you'll finally be able to feed your children with your own money instead of waiting and hoping the OQLF can win a few cases and send you the proceeds of Anglo-generated money because you can't earn your own living. :)

      I wonder what it must be like to have a dad who spends his days trolling websites, making empty threats instead of earning a paycheck so he can buy clothing and school supplies.

      Delete
    12. "D'autre part, la solidité de son économie dans les prochaines décennies n'est pas garantie. Car en sa qualité d'économie de succursales américaines, l'économie ontarienne dépend de la bonne santé financière des Américains. Avec leur dette publique faramineuse, il est raisonnable de croire que bientôt ces derniers subiront le même sort que les Grecs et les Espagnols. Quel sera l'état de l'économie ontarienne après la chute des États-Unis ?"

      AGAIN...YOU SAY THIS WITH A STRAIGHT FACE?? Buddy, ..your debt is to the tune of $256,000,000.00 AND GROWING !!!...You'll end up like Greece way before Ontario does, or even the Maritimes, at this point. AND you better hope those equalization payments keep coming, c/o ONTARIO and all the other provinces...(schmuck)

      At the cost of repeating myself...AGAIN....pls....shut the f...up.

      Delete
    13. Vous n'avez vraiment aucune classe M.Résidu.Est-ce que vous avez une mustang rouge décapotable 2010 comme véhicule?

      Delete
    14. ToTo le clown rêve aussi d'une mustang rouge décapotable 2010.

      Delete
    15. AnecTOTE,

      Is super-winner trying to tell us he has a red mustang? Is that what he's telling us?

      Vous n'avez vraiment aucune classe M.Résidu.

      Oopsie, looks like Résidu Evil has struck a nerve. So I guess your kids don't really look up to you after all, do they GH? Can you tell us a little more about the custody agreement?

      What are the child payments like? Are they more than you can afford?

      Too bad you aren't getting $5 for every useless post on this blog...man, not only would you be able to finally be able to buy your son and daughter the most basic needs (like clean underwear and something to put in their second-hand lunchboxes), but you could actually set what is commonly know as an example for your kids.

      Delete
    16. hey "gloryhole" ...considering you keep bringing it up, I think we both know who's dreaming of a "mustang rouge décapotable 2010".

      By the way, congratulations on considering a move back to where you came from...Ontario is it?? LOL
      @R.E....yeah yeah...i know...wishful thinking !! LOL

      Delete
    17. "mustang rouge décapotable 2010"

      I hadn't read his post way way above...OMG is he bragging????....Seriously????....It's practically a 4yr old car !! LOL, (red convertible mustang...really???...kinda tacky ain't it?

      but hey...I drive a benz...can I brag too??

      Delete
    18. What has me laughing is the fact that, let's say he really did have a Mustang (which means his cheeks are probably split in half by now)...

      ...wouldn't that make for a gross contradiction of all the anti-gas/anti-Alberta oil sands comments he's littered this site with?

      Delete
    19. FROM ED
      Resident, to feel and sense the Montreal culture a man must be very sensitive and caring. There is nothing wrong with making money but seeing the grass greener on the other side can sometimes distract from the smaller things like good neighbours and family. Ed

      Delete
    20. @R.E

      He owns a red convertible donkey.. (and probably on its last leg)....is what he owns...LOL

      Delete
    21. **$256,000,000.00...should be $256,000,000,000.00 ...up above...my bad.
      (missing a couple of very significant zero's i'm afraid...)

      Delete
    22. Une Benz au service à l'auto du McDonald's ou dans le parking du Tim hortons...Hmmm

      Moyen show off :D

      Ma prochaine voiture sera une Volt.

      Delete
    23. @anectote

      "...you'll end up like Greece way before Ontario does,..."

      wrong. alberta seems to be headed there first: http://tinyurl.com/crvgx54 . followed by ontario.

      "...I drive a benz."

      showing off your car make on as an anonymous blog contributor is the lamest thing ever, mate. only losers do it.

      Delete
    24. You're the poster boy for LAME...Pinstripes.

      Now stop trying to distract and deceive people in this province by making them think there in a good place fiscally compared to other provinces...when Quebec is carrying $250 BILLIONNNNNNNN DOLLARRRRRRR DEBT.....THAT IS WHAT QUEBEC IS ON THE HOOK FOR.

      $250,000,000,000.00 - Suck it up !!

      Delete
    25. @anectote

      you'd have to consider per capita, gdp, assets, and ocde similar economies if you want this figure to mean something, mate. of course it's big, but naked like this it will only impress other tossers.

      the other day you hinted the debt wasn't really a big concern for you cause you'll move away. have you decided where to, mate?

      Delete
    26. Whether anyone moves or stays, Pinstripes... Quebec still carries $256,000,000,000.00 debt on its shoulders which also means that these people are still on the hook for HUGE equalization payments to Quebec, wherever they move within Canada, they can't get away from it....savvy??

      But g-d forbid you'd admit the truth eh ..Pinstripes??...Quebec is in a hospital bed right now and even factoring in all the gdp's in the world won't camouflage the disease,...no amount of mind games will make that go away.

      Delete
    27. @anectote

      how big a lettering must you use when you discuss the usa's debt?

      Delete
    28. Concern yourself with what's happening in your back yard.. Pinstripes...that's the issue at hand here.

      $256,000,000,000.00 Debt...that's what's in your backyard.

      Delete
  6. Hihihihihi!

    Anyone else remember how just a (very) short while back a certain political party (I'm not saying which one) endlessly chided and pressured the Liberals to look into corruption...

    http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/dossiers/commission-charbonneau/201305/03/01-4647289-prudence-de-la-commission-charbonneau-marois-corrige-le-tir.php

    ...only to become quite thorny when they started to realize how close to home the investigations were getting?

    Wow.

    I mean, I sure hope someone is gathering all of this and using it to build the PQ version of Liberaux.net.

    ReplyDelete
  7. And while all this language pettiness and bickering goes on ad nauseum, more companies and head offices leave Quebec....

    Looks like ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization) which has been here since 1946, is looking to relocate to green pastures:
    http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Keeping+ICAO+headquarters+Montreal+Alliance+political/8332508/story.html

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. LD
      Ask a Separatist why The Bank of Montreal's Head office is located in the tallest office building in Toronto? Also, I wonder if Qatar has language laws forcing ICAO employees to send their kids to Arabic schools or if they have a choice unlike in Montreal?

      Delete
  8. One has to wonder how much longer ICAO will stay in Montreal. Originally it located to Montreal as the city was very strategically located at the centre, the coordinating point of the air supply route from NE North America to the UK/Europe during WW2. Today Montreal no longer maintains the same strategic importance, and other cities and countries seek to have a UN agency in their jurisdiction, such as Singapore a year or so ago, and now Qatar. The Canadian federal govt have covered the costs of providing offices etc to ICAO since its establishment, and as recently as the early 1990s, funded the construction of a whole new building for the agency near Victoria Square, which is provided rent free. (not just keeping the agency in Montreal but also creating construction jobs at a time when the economy was down). However, the Canadian govt is fearful of a free vote of ICAO members on whether to stay or not,. Despite all the city qualities, one doubts that all member country representatives desire to be in Montreal.

    Qatar may be willing to withdraw the invite, but perhaps only if it is permitted landing slots for Emirate Airlines, which to date Canada has not permitted. Seems the fed govt is in a bind.

    Montreal is not the metropolis it once was, though it maintains a healthy aircraft manufacturing industry thanks in large part to fed govt support (eg. R&D loans which are never repaid), and loan guarantees. However, the middle east has deeper pockets than Canada these days to attract UN agencies, and may be equally if not better connected internationally than Montreal is today. Who knows, other countries may be interested to have ICAO too. If Montreal wants to remain a globally important city, it will need to consider its attractiveness as a location for global organisations, and fed govt financial incentives may not be enough in itself to counter the new rising centres of economic power around the world.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Just to add, given the PQs disdain for bilingualism and English speakers, its hard to see why they would be interested to have or keep any bilingual type organisations in Montreal at all. I assume the vast majority of the business of ICAO is conducted in English and that most people who work there need to be bilingual - so for many if not most PQ supporters, ICAO is likely not a priority to keep in Montreal, perhaps the opposite is the case.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "...for many if not most PQ supporters, ICAO is likely not a priority to keep in Montreal, perhaps the opposite is the case."

      here is a statement by a pq minister:

      "Ce n'est pas le début de notre action, parce que nous sommes en actions depuis la semaine dernière, poursuit M. Lisée, qui précise que les ambassades et les délégations générales sont déjà à pied d'oeuvre pour s'assurer de conserver le siège de l'OACI."

      kinda contradicts your poor opinion. or was your objective to look like a fool?

      Delete
    2. @ JP
      ICAO leaving will be a kick in the gut, and if they do end up leaving, these guys will act like ...it's no big deal...since ICAO will have left UNDER THEIR WATCH...

      Delete
  10. On the subject of ICAO's future in Montreal, there seems to be another factor at play: The Arab nations' disdain for the Harper government's pro-Israel policies. As reported in the Globe and Mail, Qatar and other Arab countries are looking to retaliate against Canada by having the UN transfer ICAO's offices out of Montreal. http://bit.ly/16s9s45
    Facetious conspiracy theory: What is Amir Khadir's role in all this? ;)

    ReplyDelete
  11. If I were the ICAO, or any other organization, I'd see little or no advantage staying in Quebec. As a matter of fact its much to their disadvantage, I wouldn't want to invest a penny in such a politically unstable and backwards region of the world.

    Look at the Shriners Hospital. Back in 2005 it was nearly moved to London, Ontario....out of over 1,200 votes cast, it was saved by a mere *2* votes! Personally I think it was a mistake keeping it here, especially since construction is still yet to start, but it's just another example of the eagerness for companies, organizations and people to get the hell out of Quebec.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Never understood the point of a super hospital. Why would you want to centralize your hospitals and ER? Having multiple locations allows for easier access. I hope Lakeshore doesn't move, if they do, that will be devastating for Vaudreuil.

      Delete
    2. In ER perhaps it makes no sense, but in many services (like oncology) you get economies of scale with bigger hospitals.

      Delete
    3. "On the subject of ICAO's future in Montreal, there seems to be another factor at play: The Arab nations' disdain for the Harper government's pro-Israel policies. As reported in the Globe and Mail, Qatar and other Arab countries are looking to retaliate against Canada by having the UN transfer ICAO's offices out of Montreal. http://bit.ly/16s9s45"

      I believe this. Sad to say, but at the end of the day...politics are always emotional!

      Delete
    4. Playing devil's advocate here, I unfortunately need to agree with J.-F. Lisee. The ICAO has been here since 1946. It has endured social, economical and political conditions much worse than today. Therefore, whatever happens today is just peanut and not compelling enough for them to move. I also agree with M. Applebaum. Having been to Doha, I know that lifestyle there is nothing compared to Montreal.

      It now boils to how Qatar and its GCC neighbors manage to influence (read: payoff) other members to support them. But let me say this: money definitely talks.

      Consider this. Qatar has a population of 1.9M, just 100k more than the population of the island of Montreal. Yet it managed to land FIFA World Cup in 2018. The largest single-sport tournament on earth. To put things into perspective, what Canada has is just the Women's World Cup in 2015.

      Delete
  12. Interesting… Utah now sees the light! The Economist and the New York Times report that bilingual immersion programs (French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin) are now being embraced in Utah (which declared English to be its sole official language in 2000) because they now “see languages as a highway to the world economy”. They are exposing students to Chinese music and even teaching kids how to say “photosynthesis” in Mandarin in science class! Fourth-graders are able to converse and make friends with visiting Chinese artists in front of their parents.

    Meanwhile, neighbouring Arizona is “still struggling with how to implement Spanish-English bilingualism in schools, even though (or perhaps because) it is roughly one-third Hispanic.”

    And here in Quebec, we continue to handicap our francophones into being unilingual French, thereby limiting our potential success in the world economy, all in the name of the phony fear of assimilation.

    Language immersion programs
    Multilingual in the West
    Apr 29th 2013
    http://www.economist.com/blogs/johnson/2013/04/language-immersion-programs

    STATES that have passed English-only laws aren't typically the sort to shower money on bilingual education. Utah, which declared English its sole official language in 2000, seems to be an exception. The New York Times recently reported that the state is expanding its language-immersion programs for young students. French, Spanish, Portuguese and Mandarin are currently on the docket. German and Arabic might follow. According to Utah's governor, this new initiative grows out of the Mormon mission tradition, during which missionaries are encouraged to learn local languages abroad. Utah is some 60% Mormon.

    The teachers — most of them from other countries — teach regular subjects like mathematics and reading and social studies, only speaking exclusively in a foreign language. At first, they pantomime and use pictures and videos to get their point across, but they say the students can understand them within a few weeks.

    Utahns are quickly catching on.

    Parents, wary at first, have rushed to enter lotteries to place their children in the programs. Some school districts have waiting lists 100 students long. Some parents drive 30 miles to bring their children to class, or have even moved to be closer to an immersion school.

    This seems to mark a friendlier attitude towards foreign languages more generally. The English-only law was approved by nearly 70% of voters in 2000, while a majority of state legislators voiced their opposition at the time. But in 2003, exceptions to the law were carved out for Utah's public colleges and universities. Utah is one of the whitest states in the country, but immigration in the last decade (in part driven by Mormon converts) is changing the face of the state. Now, public schools' immersion programs could change the way Utahns think of foreign languages in their midst. In contrast, Utah's southern neighbor, Arizona, is still struggling with how to implement Spanish-English bilingualism in schools, even though (or perhaps because) it is roughly one-third Hispanic. Utah's language programs are an important step forward. In the last two decades, Salt Lake City has become more diverse than most Americans realise. With such a public embrace of multilingualism, the state could shed its monocultural reputation entirely.

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    Replies
    1. R.S.:

      I don't want to be cynical here but, yes, I can see that the trend towards second-language immersion in Utah grew out of the Mormon tradition of "missions". As I understand it, men have to do a two-year mission and women, I think, a year or a year and a half.

      But I can't help wondering whether this is also a way to circumvent the separation of church and state. Sending out a missionary to French who already knows French (paid for by the state and not the church) seems to be a good recipe for getting more convents than a new arrival in Paris who is just learning the language.

      Delete
    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    3. Tony, the issue you raised is discussed further here:

      A State Seeks to Be Heard in a New World Economy
      By JACK HEALY, NEW YORK TIMES, April 19, 2013
      http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/20/us/language-programs-flower-in-utahs-schools.html

      PROVO, Utah — In this deeply Mormon state, the school day is being translated into Chinese. Strains of Taiwanese pop songs float through the hallways. School cafeterias serve dumplings. Third graders pass notes in Mandarin. And when visitors enter a classroom, the students shout, “Ni hao!” “If I close my eyes, I see a room full of Chinese children,” said Colleen Densley, the principal of Wasatch Elementary School here in central Utah, recalling the words of one amazed teacher. “If I open my eyes I see my American students.”

      For generations, Mormon missionaries from Utah have crisscrossed the globe and returned home speaking Tagalog and Xhosa. Now, with hopes of preparing students for a competitive world economy, the state is building one of the largest and most ambitious school-language programs in the nation.

      Dual-language classes have existed for years, but they are now growing fast in many states as an outcry against bilingual education fades and educators look for ways to prepare American students for a polyglot global job market. But few have embraced the idea with such unlikely zeal as Utah, a state that passed an English-only law in 2000 and routinely ranks last in the nation on education spending, according to United States Census figures.

      In foreign languages, however, Utah now sees a highway to the world economy. Republicans in Salt Lake City, the state capital, have pledged millions for the program. Four years after it began, nearly half of Utah’s 41 school districts offer programs in which elementary school students spend half the day learning in English and half in a foreign language. There are 14,000 students enrolled and 20,000 signed up for next year.

      In Utah, where economic growth is being driven by surging exports of gold and silver, airplane engines and computer memory, industry leaders say a bilingual work force could help lure international companies to the state and would make Utah’s graduates stronger candidates for jobs in, say, Beijing, London or São Paulo.

      Educators and parents say the program is about academic development, not preparing Mormon students to proselytize overseas. Yet they said Utah’s immigrant communities and the overseas peregrinations of its large Mormon population make it fertile ground to teach foreign languages. “From the very beginnings of Utah, it’s been part of our culture,” said Gov. Gary R. Herbert in an interview, “the missionary effort of going out and living in foreign lands.”

      The dual language programs start in first grade, and will eventually extend through middle school, with students taking advanced placement tests in ninth grade and then studying at a college level through the rest of high school. Right now, they can take classes in French, Spanish, Portuguese and Mandarin. German is likely to be next, and educators have discussed Arabic.

      Delete
    4. Most of the programs are designed to teach native English speakers. But in corners of the state with more Latino immigrants, the state has also set up classes where Spanish speakers are taught together, in both English and Spanish. Studies of other immersion programs have found that students do just as well, or better, on standardized tests as students in English-only classrooms, with the added bonus that they picked up a new language while learning state capitals and multiplication tables. “There’s no way to learn another language as easily or as successfully,” said Myriam Met, a consultant who has worked on Utah’s immersion programs.

      The teachers — most of them from other countries — teach regular subjects like mathematics and reading and social studies, only speaking exclusively in a foreign language. At first, they pantomime and use pictures and videos to get their point across, but they say the students can understand them within a few weeks. Students in the immersion programs are graded normally, and have to take the same standardized tests as their peers. That can pose a problem in areas like science. Schools have to make sure that students who learned the Mandarin words for “photosynthesis” and “chlorophyll” can also recognize the terms on an English-language standardized tests.

      So far, however, the program has amounted to a transformation. At Chinese-speaking schools, red paper lanterns dangle from the ceiling like ripe fruit, and maps of China are taped to the wall. Taiwanese and American flags hang in classrooms. Cafeterias serve pot stickers, and schools celebrate the Chinese New Year. At Lone Peak Elementary in the town of Sandy, students grooved along one morning as their teacher played a Chinese hip-hop song. The school’s principal, McKay Robinson, stood at the back of the classroom, keeping quiet, mindful not to break the rule posted on the classroom door: “No English Please.”At Wasatch Elementary, where 360 of the school’s 860 students are in Mandarin immersion classes, officials made the faculty lounge an English-only zone so all the teachers could understand one another.

      Parents, wary at first, have rushed to enter lotteries to place their children in the programs. Some school districts have waiting lists 100 students long. Some parents drive 30 miles to bring their children to class, or have even moved to be closer to an immersion school. Holli Gardner knew the classes had taken root when her first-grade son, Talan, said a prayer before dinner in Portuguese. Jody Katz’s two sons, Jonah and Simon, will whisper to each other in Mandarin. “This is something I could never teach my kid,” said Alison Memmott, 41, whose fourth-grader, Ella, has been studying Mandarin since she was in first grade.

      A few months ago, Ms. Memmott’s family attended an exhibition by visiting Chinese artists in Salt Lake City, and Ella chatted up one of the artists in Mandarin. Within a few minutes, Ms. Memmott said, all of the artists were laughing and joking with the girl and invited Ella to return to Beijing with them. “They said there are lots of boys in China she could marry,” Ms. Memmott said. “I said no thanks.”

      Delete
    5. R.S.:

      Interesting article. Thanks.

      When I lived in Mesa, Arizona for 16 years, I was exposed to much "Mormon culture". Every neighbourhood has a Mormon church. My doctor, lawyer, dentist were all Mormons...and they all did their missions, usually in foreign countries where they have to learn a second language.

      So the "learning a second language to proselytize better" angle, I suspect, very well be a motivation, as the article suggests.

      Interestingly, I get as many (if not more!) knocks on my door here in Vancouver from Mormon missionaries as I did in AZ. In the Mormon world, I guess a mission assignment is considered a plum one, perhaps a preferable one to being assigned to Mali, Afghanistan, or the Sudan. After all, we have 600 sushi bars in Vancouver. And at least some semblance of the rule of law.

      Delete
  13. Here’s another interesting, recent article from The Economist concerning a similar situation of language delusion as discussed in the Editor’s post. This time it concerns having Dutch-only laws in Flanders, Belgium.

    Language policy: Going (beyond) Dutch
    Apr 18th 2013
    http://www.economist.com/blogs/johnson/2013/04/language-policy

    FOR small European states, language policy calls for a delicate balancing act. Luxembourg has three official languages, Switzerland four, and Belgium three. In Luxembourg, the distinction is mostly functional: different languages for different social spheres. In Switzerland and Belgium, languages are instead spread geographically. This geographic spread seems to simplify matters on paper, creating clear lines between language communities. Belgium’s constitution, for example, divides the country into four linguistic regions: the Dutch-speaking north (Flanders, or the Flemish Region), the French-speaking south (Wallonia), the small German-speaking regions in the east, and the bilingual (Dutch-French) capital, Brussels. But with the country divided roughly in half between Flanders and Wallonia, laws and policies become proxies for deeper cultural tensions. The standoff between the Dutch- and French-speaking communities was particularly tense after the 2010 elections, when it took over 500 days to form a government.

    In part because of this longstanding division, some Flemish and Wallonian laws are fiercely protective of Dutch and French. But the European Court of Justice (ECJ) thinks at least one of those laws has unacceptable consequences. Flemish law had previously considered only Dutch-language contracts authentic. Contracts in other languages would be nullified. Anton Las, from the Netherlands, had been contracted to be chief financial officer of PSA Antwerp, a Belgian subsidiary of a Singaporean port operator. His contract was in English. Unfortunately for Mr Las, his contract was nullified under the Dutch-only law, and he was booted from the company. Denied a job, he sued. A Belgian court, unsure of how to answer, asked the ECJ to make a preliminary ruling on that section of Flemish law. On Tuesday, the ECJ decided that the policy violated EU law.

    The ECJ agreed that preserving and promoting a country’s language is important. But the laws must be proportionate to the need. Because EU law protects workers' freedom of movement, restrictions on that freedom must be carefully crafted. The court worried that a Dutch-only law would dissuade people from moving to Flanders and taking up work.

    “[T]he objective of promoting and encouraging the use of Dutch, which is one of the official languages of the Kingdom of Belgium, constitutes a legitimate interest which, in principle, justifies a restriction on the obligations imposed by Article 45 TFEU [the EU law covering freedom of movement for workers]... [But] in order to satisfy the requirements laid down by European Union law, legislation ... must be proportionate to those objectives.”

    The court recommended allowing foreign transactors to use a mutually intelligible language:

    “[P]arties to a cross-border employment contract do not necessarily have knowledge of [Dutch]. In such a situation, the establishment of free and informed consent between the parties requires those parties to be able to draft their contract in a language other than [Dutch].”

    The ECJ’s preliminary rulings are binding, so the Flemish government will have to rejigger its policies. The law in question here was written with no flexibility at all, suggesting that it served linguistic nationalism more than genuine need. Belgium has outsized language worries for its size, so it will be curious to see how Flemish businesses react to new rules. I suspect that more flexibility will revitalise, not doom, business there.

    ReplyDelete
  14. In only 7 months, the Marois government has managed what took the Charest government 7 years to achieve: 65% voter dissatisfaction.

    Almost immediately after tabling their budget, the PQ is already hemming and hawing about whether they ought to balance the budget after all.

    And after months gleefully enjoying the Charbonneau Commission spectacle, the morning after the PQ itself became implicated in corruption, Marois issued an unprecedented veiled threat that the Commission had better start acting “prudently”.

    Don Macpherson: PQ government farcically bad, but time may be on its side
    BY DON MACPHERSON, THE GAZETTE MAY 3, 2013
    http://www.montrealgazette.com/opinion/editorials/Macpherson+government+farcically+time+side/8334213/story.html

    Jean Charest is off the hook. Pauline Marois has convinced me that Charest’s former Liberal government cannot possibly be the worst Quebec has ever had.

    I can’t say with authority that Marois’s Parti Québécois government is the worst ever; after all, I’ve been covering Quebec politics for fewer than 50 years.

    But I can say with confidence it’s the worst I’ve seen.

    Marois’s government is not just bad. It’s farcically bad.

    For the past two weeks, it has been disagreeing with itself about whether it will balance its budget this year. On the same day this week, the finance minister told the National Assembly it would, while the premier told labour leaders it might not.

    Then the government was thrown into a panic when Péquiste names started coming up in testimony at the Charbonneau inquiry. Some ministers cancelled news conferences to avoid media questions.

    Another minister, Bernard Drainville, who had gleefully used previous allegations at the inquiry to attack the Liberals, suddenly began questioning witnesses’ credibility and advising caution concerning uncorroborated testimony. And the premier herself publicly warned this independent commission of inquiry headed by a Superior Court judge to be “cautious.”

    A commission of inquiry is fair game for public criticism, but its independence must be respected by the government. And in a democracy, the government doesn’t pressure a judge. Not even Stephen Harper has done what Pauline Marois did this week. Just for improperly telephoning a judge hearing a case, Charest had to resign as a federal minister in 1990.

    Marois’s warning to Justice France Charbonneau to watch her step in an ongoing inquiry comes as the PQ government has been complaining about federal political influence in the judicial process in a 32-year-old constitutional case.

    Through eight months of broken election promises, policy improvisations, reversals and confusion, patronage appointments, weak leadership and generally looking shifty as well as inept, the Marois government has excelled only at making itself unpopular.

    In the most recently published poll results, from a survey April 17-22 by CROP for La Presse, 65 per cent of voters expressed dissatisfaction with the government. It took Charest’s government more than seven years to create a comparable amount of discontent in CROP’s surveys. Also in the latest CROP poll, 69 per cent said Quebec is heading in the wrong direction — up from 50 per cent at the beginning of the year.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Still, the PQ minority government could cling to power longer than might be expected, thanks to legislative and electoral mathematics. Marois is not going to call an election as long as her party remains so unpopular. Anyway, if a government bill on fixed-date elections now before the Assembly is passed, the next election wouldn’t be held until September 2016.

      That’s unless the government is defeated first in a confidence vote in the Assembly. But for that to happen, the official opposition Liberals and the Coalition Avenir Québec, the third party holding the balance of power, would both have to want an election at the same time. And that appears unlikely, since those two parties compete for the same French-speaking voters — non-sovereignists in the political centre or centre-right.

      It’s as if the two main opposition parties are on a see-saw: when one of them is up in support, the other will be down. So when one wants an election, the other won’t. This could give the PQ a precious commodity in politics: time.

      There’s a saying that six months is an eternity in politics. The Marois government could have several eternities ahead of it in which to make a political recovery — if it’s capable of it, and if it doesn’t simply disintegrate first.

      dmacpherson@montrealgazette.com
      Twitter:@MacphersonGaz
      © Copyright (c) The Montreal Gazette

      Delete
    2. A few days back I wrote that this is in fact, the worst government to date, this province has seen. Can't balance a budget, flip flops back and forth on every issue, and now, the 'Coup de grâce' (lol), they are corrupt as well, it is alleged by the Charbonneau Commission. This incited the intervention of Madame Queen Bee herself..."exercise caution", she instructed to the other queen bee, the judge of the commission.

      LOL LOL LOL, Hilarioussssssss !!!!

      I would laugh...really laugh...if this weren't so bloody sad.

      Delete
    3. R.S. Fixed-elections doesn't change the fact the government needs to keep the confidence of House. Fixed-elections just stops the Premier from calling an elections.

      Delete
  15. Latest info about the CAQ’s stand on Bill 14 by Aaron Rand of CJAD (https://www.facebook.com/AaronRandCJAD):

    Today, members of CRITIQ met with CAQ leader Francois Legault in an effort to convince him to vote down Bill 14 in its entirety.

    The good news - He made the time to listen to them.

    The bad news - He did NOT agree with their suggestion to vote down Bill 14

    The good news - He agreed that fixing the economy is important and acknowledged that he campaigned on that issue.

    The bad news - He thinks protection of the French language is just as important.

    The good news - He will continue to demand changes to the Bill before his party agrees to pass it.

    The bad news - He will probably get enough of those changes to pass the bill, and then explain that he did the best he could by forcing the PQ to make changes before voting with them.

    The final result?

    If you were expecting the CAQ to actually put their money where their mouth was, and vote against Bill 14 because it does nothing to protect the French language and everything to eliminate the English language, then you, along with so many of us, got taken in by the CAQ.

    What to do? Send Mr. Legault (and your CAQ MNA if you have one) an e-mail and/or a tweet, and let them know you want them to vote down this bill. Don't "think" about doing it, just do it.

    e-mail - flegault@assnat.qc.ca
    e-mail info@coalitionavenirquebec.org
    Twitter - @FrancoisLegault

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. RS is right - get off your duffs and start doing something about Bill 14 - My MNA is a liberal so I've done all I can but you people who have a CAQ MNA please e-mail them, especially if your francophone. Talk is great but action is required before any of this stupid bill can be put into play.

      Delete
    2. "...e-mail them, especially if your francophone."

      Hahahaha!Ben oui.Vous nous prenez réellement pour des attardés,n'est-ce pas peggy?

      Delete
    3. "Economic decline because of separatism. Could there be another angle to this? Separatism because of economic decline?"

      MM..perhaps you're right. But here's another question for you...Do seppies ever tell the truth? For 40 yrs now, YOU have run things and had the power in this province. Liberals and PQ alike, I make no distinction between Nationalists and Seppies, and you've managed to sink the economy of this province down a suer so deep, it's practically in a "black hole" in outer space.

      You've singlehandedly ruined Quebec, congrats. So..to answer your question: "Separatism because of economic decline?", for sure at the hands of you incompetents ..now...for 40 yrs...

      Delete
    4. OMG AnecTOTE - Will any of them ever, ever admit what you say is true? 40 years of destruction under the separatists and they still haven't caught on that they swim upstream like the salmon on their way to their death and they just don't get it. Even when Bouchard, their honest to God hero, told them this is not the way to go, they disown him - he told them they have to work harder and they get upset. Do you guys think your politicians are honestly working hard for the money they put into their own pockets? Come on - catch on will you. They use you as their little playthings to cause trouble for yourselves - they don't have to worry - they can leave anytime with YOUR money in their pocket. And you will note it's Canadian or US money they carry not a blue and white bill that can't be used anywhere in the world. What do you think they will do when their experiment with you fails? Do you think they will hang around and hold your hand while your world falls apart? For Christ's sake, start using your heads instead of your emotions and think about where your headed fighting with everyone in North America.

      Delete
    5. By the way, most normal francophones are against the implementation of Bill 14 also. It's not just the anglophones that oppose this xenophobic piece of shit that the PQ are trying to push in the National Assembly. Most francophones see this as going way to far in restricting rights and freedoms of their own population.

      Delete
    6. @cutie003

      "Most francophones see this as going way to far..."

      here's an hypothesis: this line is made up junk straight from your mean mind.

      Delete
    7. "What was particularly noteworthy was that while the testimony and briefs from anglophone groups and individuals were uniformly critical, anglophones were not alone in raising their voices against the legislation.

      The Quebec Bar Assocation’s brief was presented by its outgoing president, Louis Masson, and it slammed the bill for what it termed disproportionate constraints on Quebec’s anglophone and allophone communities that are difficult to justify in a free and democratic society.

      The Fédération des chambres de commerce du Québec, representing 147 boards of trade across the province, suggested the government is needlessly disrupting the linguistic peace that has come to prevail in recent years by introducing coercive measures where no demonstrable problem exists.

      Speaking for the human-rights commission, the Commission des droits de la personne et des droits de la jeunesse, was its president, Gaétan Cousineau. The commission’s brief rapped the bill for confusing linguistic imperatives with fundamental human rights, and said that Bill 14, if passed, would create more legal pitfalls than anything else, due to overly zealous means of asserting the primacy of French.

      Léopold Turgeon weighed in on behalf of the Retail Council of Quebec, blasting the bill for its coercive and judicial approach. In one of the final presentations to the committee, Lachute Mayor Daniel Mayer, a former PQ candidate, pleaded with language minister Diane De Courcy to drop the bill’s provision that would allow the government to remove bilingual status from municipalities whose mother-tongue anglo population had fallen below 50 per cent. Notably, not one municipality in Quebec, and not one mayor, came out in support of the provision to take away the acquired language rights of historically bilingual municipalities."

      link

      Delete
    8. Yes Yannick but if any of this bill comes to be there are going to be major problems - I think that even the level headed francophone population can see this vicious attack on anglophones and allophones for what it is - another major effort to rid the province of "No" votes and only hard core separatists can fully justify this in their small minds. Let's hope common sense and legal problems place the bill in the garbage where it belongs. Can't be another election soon enough.

      Delete
  16. I remember that Ed complained some time ago about gendered languages and how they were inferior to English (and presumably Asian languages as well). This article from The Economist describes how the State of Washington has recently removed all male-exclusive terms from its laws. For example, while “policeman” and “stewardess” have long been no-no's (replaced by “police officer” and “flight attendant”, respectively), "freshmen" in college and high school will now be "first-year students". But what to make of “fisherman”, “ombudsman”, “journeyman”, “penmanship”, “manhole”, “airmen” and “seamen”??
    http://www.economist.com/blogs/johnson/2013/04/gendered-language

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. FROM ED
      Hi R.S., tell me please what you mean by gendered language. The problem I have with French is the gender on chairs and tables etc., which makes no sense. I believe the word is neutral but with men and women I have no problem. Is that what you mean or otherwise? I know that English people are even trying to erase sex from titles such as policeman or postwoman. The whole thing is confusing to my aging brain.

      Delete
  17. FUN FACT #62: Did you know in Beijing, China, subway announcements are made in Chinese AND English?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsdF834vXkQ

    FUN FACT #78: Most Montreal's subway rolling stock pre-dates the first moon landing.

    Believe it or not.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Beijing is not unique, same in Shanghai, KL, Tokyo and elsewhere, all signage and announcements are bilingual, for foreign residents and visitors to the city and country. Transit system maps and ticket machines are bilingual and ticket booths are signed to indicate if English or other languages are spoken there. I heard in recent weeks that the Paris Metro also now has English announcements, English is often first and French second, to the annoyance of some. When I was there in 2011 I recall that the system had bilingual ticket machines, health and safety signs, etc., and staff were always seeking to be helpful whether or not they could speak English. Its quite the contrast to Montreal, though it is noted that health and safety signs are bilingual on the Montreal Metro, though because the half size lettering is so small in English it can be challenge to read.

      In China, there are now big programs in all major cities and areas with foreigners to make all sorts of signage bilingual (Mandarin/English), from Street signage to health/safety, to information signage, signs in museums and galleries and historic plaques.

      One thing which is amusing is that if an art exhibition is with loans from one particular country, then the bilingual signs will be in the language of the country loaning the art, rather than English. Otherwise English is the default second language used.

      Delete
    2. Et pourtant...

      Chine : Des universités abandonnent l'épreuve d'anglais dans leur examen d'entrée

      http://chine.aujourdhuilemonde.com/chine-des-universites-abandonnent-lepreuve-danglais-dans-leur-examen-dentree

      En passant,la langue française n'est aucunement menacée en France.Nous sommes en amérique,pas en Europe JiPi :)

      Delete
    3. "En passant,la langue française n'est aucunement menacée en France.Nous sommes en amérique,pas en Europe JiPi :)"

      I agree the French Language is indeed threatened, here in North America...By your 'JOUAL' !

      Delete
    4. FROM ED
      "FUN FACT #78: Most Montreal's subway rolling stock pre-dates the first moon landing."
      So what! So do a lot of airplanes. Ed

      Delete
    5. FROM FRED

      SO WHAT?! So a girl died just last week, when she feel between the gap of two subway cars. Modern rolling stock (i.e. that which isn't 50+ years old) has safety barriers closing said gap, and other safety features. Look at the subway cars used by the TTC in Toronto. They have air conditioning too you know. The only "safety" feature used by the STM is reducing the size of English letter on their emergencies signs so the Quebecois don't go blind upon glancing at it!

      Hey, but it's okay Ed. Keep your head up your arse pretending nothing is wrong with the toilet you live in. Keep wearing those rose colored glasses, ignorance is bliss to someone who believes all is well in the most corrupt province in Canada. The most backwards region in the world. Think and say what you want, YOU know the truth, and you know you live in a toilet of corruption, filth and ignorance. I'll swim elsewhere, thank you very much.

      Delete
    6. FROM ED
      Fred, thank goodness you swim somewhere else. If your body is as fat as your head we don't want to look at it in a speedo, which fatheads like you usually wear. Thanks for putting down Anglos by describing our home as a toilet.
      A definition of ignorance Fred is a man that would attack people who have done nothing to him. Like blog rage. Ed

      Delete
    7. @fred

      "I'll swim elsewhere, thank you very much."

      when do you leave?

      Delete
    8. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

      Delete
    9. @fred

      i flush you leave?!? doesn't that make you a turd? aren't you worth more that that, mate?

      Delete
    10. FUN FACT #78: Most Montreal's subway rolling stock pre-dates the first moon landing.

      Having previously been acquainted with this particular enthusiast's site, as well as previous Wiki readings, I had to take exception to and correct this inaccuracy.

      There are two kinds of trains used in the metro. The type used on the green line is called an MR-63 or Vickers [...]. They were built in 1963 but have been completely refurbished. Another type, the MR-73 [...], built in 1973, is used on the orange, yellow, and blue lines. Both types are automatically piloted but can be switched to manual control if necessary. [...] The STM owns 336 MR-63 cars and 423 MR-73 cars, for a total of 759 cars.

      This in addition to the upcoming fleet of MPM-10 cars that will be replacing the old MR-63's over the next four years. For those of you unfamiliar with the notation or who can't be bothered to look it up, the MR-63's are the set of (partly gray/white interior) cars that run on the green line (1), while the MR-73's (partly orange/beige/blue interior) run on all other subway lines.

      The introduction of MPM-10's on the orange (2) line will in all likelihood require that some of the MR-73's operating on that line be shunted onto the green line.

      Your comment would have been more accurate had it stated "close to half of Montreal's subway rolling stock pre-dates the first moon landing, with all such remaining vehicles to be retired by the end of the decade".

      Delete
    11. Yes, the MR-63's were built in 1963. But "completely refurbished"? No. Only the interiors had a make over, and a slight one at that, it is mostly a superficial and cosmetic. These trains are so old parts cannot be order any longer, they have to be manufactured in-house at the STM! A time traveler from 1966 would hardly notice the difference walking into one of these MR-63's, except that they bounce around violently because the shocks are gone.

      You're proud that Montreal is using subway cars built in 1963 and 1973?! These are not vintage and classic automobiles, these are trains that are way past their intended run and safety limits. It is a known FACT that Montreal's subway system has the oldest rolling stock in North America, plus most parts of the world.

      The MPM-10's will not have air conditioning. They are also going to be very narrow and lack seats. Like all else, Montreal is again a joke.

      Delete
    12. Yes, the MR-63's were built in 1963. But "completely refurbished"?
      I didn't create or fix them, so I don't need to insult or defend them. But since the essence of your criticism seems to hinge on what constitutes refurbishment, see here and here.

      A time traveler from 1966 would hardly notice the difference walking into one of these MR-63's, except that they bounce around violently because the shocks are gone.
      Our time traveler might also wonder how many more stations the train will travel to before he absolutely needs to get off. (I'm not defending our lackluster expansion, I just take issue with the inaccuracy you were peddling, that's all).

      You're proud that Montreal is using subway cars built in 1963 and 1973?! These are not vintage and classic automobiles, these are trains that are way past their intended run and safety limits.
      The Wiki article I quoted earlier described an MDBF (mean distance between failure) double that of North American subway cars. If you can find me a more official source that contradicts that performance assertion, I'll gladly read it. Also, the precise "intended safety limits" you're getting at aren't clear to me.

      It is a known FACT that Montreal's subway system has the oldest rolling stock in North America, plus most parts of the world.
      They might not be sleek or ultra-modern. And it'd surely be "nice" to have newer ones (with air conditioning) perhaps. For the time being, I'm a bit more worried of our aging fleet of airplanes... That being said, I'd like to see data/stats that correlate our admittedly aging rolling stock with incontrovertible evidence that our safety has been or is being compromised.

      The real challenge as I see it is the logistical issues surrounding the obscure "computer glitches" that always eventually get sorted out and the suicidal jumpers who in a final act of defiance decide that their last hurrah will come at the expense of thousands of commuters at rush hour.

      You know the Orwellian code phrase, I'm sure.
      Repeat after me:
      Un incident nous oblige à interrompre le service sur la ligne orange pour une durée indéterminée. D'autres messages suivront.

      Delete
    13. montreal metro cars are old, but they still look good. very good industrial design in the first place as far as i'm concerned.

      vintage add from 1976: http://tinyurl.com/btbnobz .

      Delete
    14. After you're done watching the 1976 ad, watch this one for a good chuckle (and a truth!). :)

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsUrVQNB888

      Delete
  18. Fait +/- amusant:

    Chine: du rat et du renard vendus pour de la viande de bœuf

    http://actuwiki.fr/environnement/20202

    Les chats et les chiens (traités comme des objets sans vie) en brochette ou en ragoût sont aussi très populaires.Parlez-moi d'un peuple évolué:)

    Believe it or not.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yesterday: "Vous croyez que ce sera le premier --->>> RACISTE <<<--- à se casser les dents sur la charte de la langue française?"

      Today: "Parlez-moi d'un peuple évolué:)" RE: Chinese people

      What's worse is that S.R no doubt eats meat, but since the Chinese eats meat he does not agree with, they're somehow lacking in evolution.

      Delete
    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    3. Attention aux brochettes vendues dans les rues de toyonto,surtout si c'est un chinois qui en fait le commerce.Si j'étais un castor je commencerais à craindre pour mon destin.

      Je suis végétarien M.Résidu.

      Delete
    4. S.R. :"Si j'étais un castor je commencerais à craindre pour mon destin."

      You couldn't be a beaver. Beavers work.

      Delete
    5. Wrong Diogenes.

      S.R does work...and like the beaver, he also works with his mouth.

      Delete
  19. L'O.Q.L.F vient de tomber sur un véritable filon d'or au "Cavendish mall" :)

    ReplyDelete
  20. "It isn't strange that Quebec's economic decline is neatly paralleled by the rise in language extremism."

    Economic decline because of separatism. Could there be another angle to this? Separatism because of economic decline?

    Here is a quote from Mark L. Levine :
    « The decline of Montreal would fundamentally alter the relationship between English and French… As long as the English of Montreal remained in control of the Canadian economy, their position was secure and unassailable. However, as Montreal’s English-speaking financial elites became the executors of decisions originating outside the province, their situation changed dramatically… It was inevitable in this context that [French opinion leaders] would begin questionning the role of the Englsih community in the management of the provincial economy. » (The Reconquest of Montreal, p.43)

    The idea might sound crazy, but one should listen to the speech René Lévesque gave at the Parti Québécois first convention. The interesting part is at 6:18 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkHxkP-D0SE

    He tells about Canada losing ground in the world, about Québec losing ground in Canada and he asks if we should not take care of our own business. He clearly speaks about economic decline and it clearly seems to be one of his motives for separation.

    So it is not strange that Quebec's economic decline is neatly paralleled by the rise of language extremism (separatism), but it is unclear wich one is the cause and wich one is the symptom.

    ReplyDelete
  21. As Canada is doing really well financially in the list of G8 countries, I know we would be doing even better if we did not have this continuous internal conflict whereby one province holds back the whole country by fighting every damn thing they possibly can. Some of Harper's decisions may not be the best but do you honestly think that Marois or any of the separatist governments would handle these matters any better? Please - they don't even know enough not to cut their own throats which they do continuously to further enrich themselves and couldn't care less about the well being of their citizens. They are soooooooo leading you poor fools down the garden path - if it didn't involve the rest of us that reside here, to be honest, I would cut the whole province loose and let you sink. But, meanwhile you want to drag all of us with you and that we can't let you do. Areas that want to go should be allowed to go by vote. Then the rest of us can really be a part of Canada and thrive again.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Damn it Cutie, you beat me to the punch!

      One clearly flagrant violation of reality on Patrice's part is his utter neglect of the fact that the G8 wasn't a factor at the time that video was shot.

      His post therefore comes off as nothing more than a segregationist diatribe, that is extra heavy on the disinformation.

      Funny how some separatists really insist on seeing their exclusionary agenda as a profitable one.

      Delete
    2. "One clearly flagrant violation of reality on Patrice's part is his utter neglect of the fact that the G8 wasn't a factor at the time that video was shot."

      Could you explain what you mean? I am note sure that I understand what you mean right.

      Delete
    3. Michel,

      Your video pre-dates the addition of Canada into G8 by eight years. While René Lévesque was making statements alluding to Canada losing ground in the world, quite the opposite was under way. The Great White North was actually coming up as a mega-power on the global stage.

      Today Canada has the 11th largest economy in the world, something Lévesque either refused envision, or hadn't fathomed possible.

      Next, you point out that he touches on Québec losing ground in Canada and he asks if we should not take care of our own business. This is something of a self-fulfilling prophecy. You and I both know, Michel, that PQ policies drove many head offices (including the Bank of Montreal) out of the province.

      And this around the same epoch that this was going on, both Montreal and the province were starting to spend well beyond their means and falling very, very deeply into debt.

      So if you insist on siding with Lévesque's claims that economic decline is what QC can expect from remaining in Canada, then I have to call you out on it and point out the actual root cause.

      I do agree with you on the point that language extremism isn't the only cause of Quebec's economic woes. We also have a culturally-ingrained habit of over-spending and never expecting to be held accountable.

      If Quebec is to flourish once again, it'll take more than just the abolition of Bill 101.

      It will also require taking the axe to $7 a day daycare, heavy percentages on venture-stage mineral companies and hitting corrupt politicians and mafia members with very extreme mandatory minimum sentences (so for example, if Accurso is found guilty he would have to serve a minimum of five years, no exceptions).

      Delete
    4. M. Patrice,

      He tells about Canada losing ground in the world, about Québec losing ground in Canada and he asks if we should not take care of our own business. He clearly speaks about economic decline and it clearly seems to be one of his motives for separation.

      Let me ask your personal opinion, in light of what Rene Levesque said in your quote.

      In today's economy, Canada turns out to be one economy that manages to weather the storm and flourish compared to other major world players. In today's economy, Quebec turns out to be one of the worst performers among Canadian provinces, be it on absolute or on per-capita basis.

      Therefore, is the separatist movement still relevant?

      Delete
    5. "Therefore, is the separatist movement still relevant?"

      @ Troy....Oh oh oh...can I answer please please ..PLEASE????

      Of course it is. It is a means to an end.

      The end = They keep as many Francophones enslaved by ensuring they remain unilingual and thus, none can leave the province for 'greener pastures'. They HAVE to stay here to keep paying the high taxes needed so this faltering province can remain somewhat afloat, AND furthermore, sustain the ageing (FRENCH) baby boomer population. Someone does have to pay for them as well...savvy?

      Delete
    6. Do you really think any of these bums will now let go of the $7.00/day program? Could you just see the streets with the protesters? Half the younger population live here just for that reason. I see and hear it all the time from people who rent homes here - strictly for the program not caring that our taxes are killing us. The Bell technician that installed my system (very francophone) told me that't the only reason he and his wife have not moved out to Ontario as yet is because they have four kids, they both work, and they want the daycare program. As soon as the kids are in school full time, they plan to buy in Ontario. Stupid, stupid catholic upbringing from a lot of the old time politicians - have lots of kids, whether you can afford them or not, thereby keeping them dependent on the government for subsidies of schooling and day care. Never mind all the birth control methods out there - you're catholic and we want lots of grand kiddies. Nothing like having a gaggle of kids that you can't properly afford to school or have babysat while you work. The selfish mentality is alive and well here in quebec.

      Delete
    7. Cutie - the alternative is importing workers from outside. Where we do save on their education and training, you also lose in that those workers were trained outside of Canada and have to waste time and money re-certifying them and such.

      I think there are worse things in the world than natalist policies, and Quebec does not have a very high natural growth rate in spite of the daycare system.

      Delete
    8. Troy,

      Québec did pretty well during the last economic crisis. Nevertheless, our economy could be in better shape.

      About Lévesque's speech. Listening to this speech, can we say that the economic decline of Canada and of Montreal were then one of the motivations for independence? I think so. That was my point.

      "In today's economy, Quebec turns out to be one of the worst performers among Canadian provinces [...] Therefore, is the separatist movement still relevant?"

      Québec was economicaly declining.
      Lévesque advocated (right or wrongfully) independence.
      We did not give independence a try.
      And Québec kept on declining.
      Therefore independence was a bad idea?
      (I have this intuition that there is a flaw in this reasoning. I just can't put my finger on it...)

      "Therefore, is the separatist movement still relevant?"

      It is relevant because it is in the best interest of every people to decide for itself.

      Delete
    9. Resident Evil

      "And this around the same epoch that this was going on, both Montreal and the province were starting to spend well beyond their means and falling very, very deeply into debt."

      The federal debt went from 18 billions in 1972 to 250 billions in 1984. In the USA, the federal debt went from 380 billions in 1970 to 3200 billions in 1990.

      Public debts during this period increased pretty much everywhere.

      Delete
    10. "It is relevant because it is in the best interest of every people to decide for itself". Absolutely, by municipality or federal district and then it will be a fair decision for ALL the province not just the backwoods areas that are least affected by separation.

      Delete
    11. @troy

      "In today's economy, Quebec turns out to be one of the worst performers among Canadian provinces, be it on absolute or on per-capita basis. Therefore, is the separatist movement still relevant't?"

      according to you, quebe doesn't work well as a canadian province. and you're asking if not being a province anymore is still relevant.

      of course it's relevant. when something doesn't work it's always relevant to look out for alternatives.

      very easy question, mate.

      Delete
    12. "It is relevant because it is in the best interest of every people to decide for itself."

      Exactly.... and they did, when they voted NO...at BOTH referendums !!!!

      Delete
    13. "they voted NO...at BOTH referendums"

      Out of 6,200,000 voters, only 2,8 millions voted twice (51+ years). More important, 2 millions never voted (36-years). Out of all those who voted in 1995, 1,2 millions died since then (and will no longer vote...). Given the very tight results of the last referendum, perhaps checking again is not unreasonable...

      Delete
    14. Yes...by all means...check one more time, so that when it's "NO"...AGAIN..... you'll then check...ONE MORE TIME.

      Delete
    15. @anectote

      "...when they voted NO...at BOTH referendums"

      and should we just keep the conservatives in ottawa forever? after all canada voted for them three times in a row! lose that argument, it's not good.

      Delete
    16. @anectote

      "when it's "NO"...AGAIN..... you'll then check...ONE MORE TIME."

      you seem to have a fundamental issue with democracy, mate. you don't like it when people have a say?

      Delete
    17. "and should we just keep the conservatives in ottawa forever? after all canada voted for them three times in a row! lose that argument, it's not good."

      Do you even know the difference between Referendums and Elections? You can keep the conservatives or send them on their way...That's why we have ELECTIONS ..EVERY 4 yrs. AND...THAT is the democratic process. Referendums are not the same thing, and as defined: A "Referendum" is the submission of AN ISSUE of public importance to the direct vote of the electorate". You're not electing an entire government to govern a populace for the next 4yrs... I'd include the entire definition of "Election", but that will be your homework ..Pinstripes......go look it up.

      @ R.E.

      Is he really this dumb...or do you think he's just screwin' with our heads? LOL LOL

      Delete
    18. BlaBlaBla...BlaBla...Bla...BlaBlaBla...

      Delete
    19. @anectote

      "You can keep the conservatives or send them on their way..."

      same with a referendum on separation. even after quebec splits you can organize a referendum to join canada again if you think it's a good idea.

      Delete
  22. I thought I would share this with all of you, though you may have read it already, for those of you who missed it, it is a MUST READ!

    http://www.montrealgazette.com/opinion/editorials/Opinion+magic+wand+Harry+Potteresque+world+Quebec/8328219/story.html

    Quebec is more like Harry Potter’s world then we thought!!!...lol Who knew? Deliciously amusing and delectably entertaining: The parallel worlds of Quebec and Harry Potter LOLOL. Kudos to Ms Gayle A. Shinder.

    ReplyDelete
  23. FROM ED
    EDITOR,
    Congratulations! Your blog has an all new outlook today. Serious posters make a decided difference.
    I'm fed up with people moaning about poor Ontario entering a poverty state. They want money that Quebec is getting. We already gave them a country sized fortune. How much more do they need? The PQ has been exceedingly generous to Toronto. First our shipping industry. Ships coming upriver now pass Quebec and Montreal to unload and load in Toronto's harbour. A multi billion dollar industry.
    While our ports become parks, Toronto's is richly productive. Montreal was the Industry capital of North America.
    At one time the head office of every bank, company or industry was in Montreal where they began. Montrealers nurturing the industries such as textile, helped them grow to international competitiveness. In commerce the stock market report of the Montreal Gazette was one full page and one half. Toronto was one quarter of a page. We watched with sadness as this reversed itself.
    We saw the transportation industry move to Toronto. The railways (CN and CP) had their offices, stations and repair shops here. Today, there are parking lots where they used to be. The container, express and forwarding buildings are now vacant land.
    We, the Anglos who worked hard and built all this sit and suffer because we were unlucky enough to be industrious instead of staying home to screw the wife and have a new baby every year. We are a minority and the only hope we have is that our next government, most likely under Dr. Couillard will care enough to repair whatever they can. People ask why did we not fight them and we have to answer, we tried, but most of the people who could have helped, ran away to keep their jobs. They same people come on this blog complaining that we get transfer payments and now they want that too. Would you like us to cut our hearts out and send them to you Mr. Sauga, because that's all we've got left. We gave you everything we had and if Ontarions are now going broke they better get some money managers because there's no excuse for it. It is not our fault that Francos are low IQ and easily led. hopefully they have enough intelligence to see the damage they've done and elect a government that can save us. Otherwise we Anglos will have no choice but to go down the drain and lose the little we have left while others make fun of us. Sadly Ed

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Mr. Brown,

      I just need to clarify some facts.

      While indeed it is true that some of the shipping industry shifted upstream from Montreal with the opening of the Seaway, Montreal still holds its position as a major marine terminal. In fact, Port of Montreal is the world's largest inland port and Canada's second largest port (after Vancouver). Majority of Canadian goods exported to and imported from the Atlantic Ocean still go through Montreal.

      Montreal is declining, that is for sure. However, the effect of the Seaway and the shipping industry has towards Montreal's decline is not nearly as big as members of separatist movements lead us to believe.

      Delete
    2. Having the seaway as part of Montreal is a real bonus in partitioning this province - no way would Canada and US let the fascist PQ Government control our imports and exports - they couldn't afford to take the chance of FLQ type rebels holding the ports hostage in the event of trouble in this province following any kind of attempt to take Canadian land as their own.

      Delete
    3. I never heard a seperatist blame the opening of the Seaway for the decline of Montreal. Their is also very few actual port activity within Toronto. I only heard that seperatist blame Ottawa for allowing iron ore to be shipped to Hamilton instead of Sept-Iles.

      Delete
    4. FROM ED
      Let me help you with some straight facts. Montreal Harbour is dead. Don't believe the bullshit in Wikipedia which also claims Montreal is a Railroad hub. I don't think there a single rail of track left in Montreal. We used to have all 102 berths working 24 hrs. per day to turn ships around unloaded and loaded. If you see one in the harbour now it's a lucky break. I loved working on ships and often take my grandchildren and their friends on the harbour criuse from the old port. Unfortunately there is nothing to see. In order for, as you say "the majority of goods to go through Montreal" we would need the railroads. Mulroney saw to it that all the old tracks were removed. God knows why, farmers in the Laurentians curse his name for removing their trains. The only ships that come to Montreal is the odd container that unloads onto flat bed and railtainer trucks. Ed

      Delete
    5. Liam : Michel Patrice talks about it often.

      Ed: Thank you again for bringing your historical context to the discussion. Most of us are too young to know how much things have changed over the years.

      Delete
    6. FROM ED
      TROY, the reason I wrote my original post was to point out to our posters that we English in Montreal have feelings and are hurt when people seem to enjoy what we're going through. You're post in wrongly trying to nullify my facts changed the message from what I was trying to say and makes it look like I don't know what I'm talking about. I know the port of Montreal is the largest inland in Canada and with the R.R.'s being here we were a hub but this is long gone. Size is redundant when there is no activity. The odd container ship does not create employment for 50,000 people like our old port did through the fifties and sixties. The loss of our port was directly the fault of language as shipping agencies were not going to translate from every worldly language into French and back to English to forward on to North America. They warned Rene Levesque and his answer was, " let them find another way around. We don't mind" Ed

      Delete
    7. Ed, you are overreacting. The Port of Montreal is still very well served by CN. It will hardly be replaced for anytime, soon. The problem with Halifax is that it has inadequate rail connections to CN and CP mainlines. The separatist fears that port of Montreal will be replaced is unfounded. One business left Halifax and stated that the reason was CN inability to move rail in a timely fashion. Concerning rails, many short-line rails were abandoned do to being uneconomical when compared to trucking. That has nothing to do with language police. Many rails were abandoned in the Ottawa valley.

      Delete
    8. @ed

      "I (...) often take my grandchildren and their friends on the harbour cruise from the old port. Unfortunately there is nothing to see."

      they must be thrilled every time.

      "Francos are low IQ and easily led."

      that's a racist line. your comment should be removed.

      Delete
    9. Il a raison student car dans le cas inverse,nous aurions notre pays depuis longtemps :)

      Delete
    10. FROM ED
      Opening the seaway had nothing to do with the decline of Montreal's waterfront. The seaway opened in '55. The harbour was busy all through the sixties. Ships did not want to go to Toronto and lose two days of open water. Montreal turned them around faster than anywhere in Canada. The stevedores (mostly French) were proud of their speed and worked hard. Imagine six hours non stop on a payloader amid mountains of brown sugar in the sticky bowels of a ship. They never complained. We had work until the late seventies. When the ships left the R.R.'s followed them and the exodus was begun.
      Liam closing then shortlines had nothing to do with trucks. Mulroney closed them to save money on passenger traffic against the wishes of CN's president. To please his buddies in the trucking industry such as Day and Ross and McCain he shafted the farmers getting their products to market. Farmers in the Larentians wanted to rent a track from CN and run their own train. Mulroney quickly ordered that all rails and ties be removed to squash them like the bastard he was. Ed

      Delete
  24. @ Editor, once again I bet your indulgence.

    http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/Letter+threatened+with+fine+putting+lost+poster/8333433/story.html

    Slightly off topic but well worth mentioning: Here's an interesting letter, published in today's 'Montreal Gazette'. We're reminded yet again, how responsible Quebec is towards stray pets. We should all be soooooooo proud, n'est ce pas?

    No surprise that we're vilified for animal cruelty in this province.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yeah but don't forget we have the time, money and energy to push out taxpayers - what a bunch of losers. I hope this poor guy has better luck than the last fellow that tried to find his pet. Makes me so happy that I put a tag on my dogs with name, address and phone number so anyone that finds them can get in touch with me. I wish everyone would do the same, even on their pussycats. You can have them made at a lot of places but as I'm near Ottawa, I make them at Petsmart - wise enough not to come to this province. Another huge business that can't be bothered with quebec.

      Delete
    2. "wise enough not to come to this province."

      Petsmart serait plus "smart" que vous peggy?

      Haha!

      Delete
    3. "Makes me so happy that I put a tag on my dogs with name, address and phone number so anyone that finds them can get in touch with me"

      Wow!Pas mal plus intelligent que de placarder la photo de votre "poilu" sur les biens publics de votre ville,n'est-ce-pas peggy?Bienvenue au XXI ème siècle.

      Delete
    4. Yes Petsmart is great with friendly employees. They also offer free food to the local shelter. Do you go to the Merivale or Innes store?

      Delete
    5. I go to the large one on Merivale near Hunt Club - they have walk in tubs for big dogs - the other one on Merivale can't take the bigger dogs as they have to lift them into the tubs. lol

      Delete
    6. @cutie003

      "I make them at Petsmart - wise enough not to come to this province."

      why is it wise not to expand a business's reach, cutie003?

      Delete
    7. And Liam don't know if you knew this but they take in our homeless cats and put them up for adoption in their stores. Great organization and reasonably priced for grooming.

      Delete
  25. Just watched an interview with Mr. Libman of CRITIQ that he had with Mr. Legault about Bill 14 - go to CTV News Montreal and you should be able to pull it up - interesting.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Here is Brian Wilson on the PQ government and a hypothetical majority.
      http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/postscript-pq-moving-the-goalposts-1.1265236

      Delete
  26. Haha SNC Lavalin is on the list.

    The only reason I support Qatar bid to move the ICAO is that it will force the PQ to loosen Bill 101 towards diplomats in Quebec.

    "Lisée said Quebec was ready to revisit its French-language schooling requirements for diplomats’ children."

    Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/Ottawa+Quebec+committed+keeping+ICAO+Montreal/8335591/story.html#ixzz2SN4iRXIt

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. you're wrong. if qatar wins there won't be diplomats to loosen bill 101 for anymore. you should support quebec for once, mate.

      Delete
    2. Dudent, pinstripes, whatever your name is now, I just saw all the crap your spent the night up writing and surprise, surprise, not ONE constructive argument.

      Just criticism of other people's posts. "You're wrong" "crappy argument" "You should change your point of view."

      But this is where it gets good.

      You really are the typical embodiment of how rotten the separatist point of view is.

      Talk about having your cake and eating it too. Quebec DOES NOT deserve to be supported on this and the province totally deserves what's about to happen.

      You will be made to learn that in life, actions have consequences.

      If you insist on forcing your will upon others, you had better be ready for the outcome.

      Now suck it up - you lose...once again (but I'm sure you're used to it by now).

      Delete
    3. @resident evil

      if you want to discuss about crap, rotten things, eating cake, forcing your will upon others or other fine topics you shouldn't do it by forcing your way into an already going discussion. here the subject is icao if you had not noticed. see you down there, mate.

      Delete
    4. Est-ce que les "habs" vont fermer boutique si ils ne vont pas chercher la coupe Stanley?

      Delete
    5. "forcing your will upon others - like Bill 14 perhaps? Bill 101 is not enough for the thugs in this place - Bill 14 wants to "improve" on "forcing will upon others". Total pricks.

      Delete
    6. Seeing as how earlier in the conversation, you and Gloryhole BOTH stated something I have never said --> that Francophones are dummies, I'd say the discussion is pretty closed.

      Always found it funny that whenever the seppies don't get their way, they turn on their own, be it a PQ leader or their neighbors.

      In fact Student, just earlier, you wrote: "you seem to have a fundamental issue with democracy, mate. you don't like it when people have a say?"

      And yet, when that people democratically opts to vote NO, which you don't agree with, this is the usual reaction:

      "T'est pas game...trop peureux pour faire un pays du Québec."

      So much for your open discussion.

      Delete
    7. @resident evil

      "And yet, when that people democratically opts to vote NO, which you don't agree with, this is the usual reaction:
      "T'est pas game...trop peureux pour faire un pays du Québec."

      dude try to argue on stuff i actually wrote. your fabrications won't lead us anywhere.

      Delete
  27. Air Canada ordered to pay $12K to man who couldn’t order 7Up in French

    http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/07/14/air-canada-ordered-to-pay-12k-to-man-who-couldnt-order-7up-in-french/

    Moi qui croyait que les "canadians" parlaient 2,3 et même 4 langues mais incapables de servir un client dans une des deux langues officielles de ce pays ... Hmm

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Not the least bit surprised that GH is proud of this man:

      "It is Mr. Thibodeau’s second successful legal action against the airline and its subsidiaries. In 2000, he was refused service in French when he tried to order a 7Up from a unilingual English flight attendant on an Air Ontario flight from Montreal to Ottawa.

      Mr. Thibodeau filed suit in Federal Court for $525,000 in damages. The court upheld his complaint, ordered the airline to make a formal apology and pay him $5,375.95. Mr. Thibodeau was later honoured by the French-language rights group, Imperatif Francais."

      This man is not a hero, he's a professional dead-beat Bougon looking for marks.

      How's this for a dose of unreality: "In the latest case, the Thibodeaus initially complained of eight instances in 2009 in which they did not receive services in French at airports in --->>> Atlanta <<<---"

      Delete
    2. Moi qui croyait que les "canadians" parlaient 2,3 et même 4 langues mais incapables de servir un client dans une des deux langues officielles de ce pays ... Hmm

      Delete
    3. And Resident this couple is totally bilingual and live in Orleans - East end of Ottawa. They are an example of one of the main reasons the ROC has lost patience with this gang of losers known as separatists - this kind of action is what I would expect from a separatist LIVING IN QUEBEC but this couple have no excuse except money, publicity and shit disturbing all over the place about nothing. I'm sure they are very popular in their neighbourhood - not. Every time I read about them in the newspaper I have a desire to take them into the public square and throttle them. They should be forced to move to quebec and leave the ROC out of their stupid actions.

      Delete
    4. Est-ce que Mark S. Bergeron est bilingue?Comment a-t-il agit avec l'ambulancier Québécois?

      Delete
    5. @cutie003

      "I have a desire to take them into the public square and throttle them."

      wow. now that's hainous. you keep pushing the bar lower cutie003. you're making it difficult for resident evil and anectote to keep up.

      Delete
    6. "Air Canada ordered to pay $12K to man who couldn’t order 7Up in French"

      That's funny because on a recent Air Canada flight back from Las Vegas, I tried to order something in English, and the flight attendant spoke back to me in French, and continued to do so throughout the flight. To boot...just as a few of us entered the plane and were settling in, there was brief chatting between same flight attendant and another passenger, and I heard the latter say, "Enfin quelqu'un qui me comprend"...mmm..

      Gee should I take them to court too??

      Delete