Wednesday, December 19, 2012

Entitlism and Quebec's Ruling Elite

Jean-François Lisée, Mr. No-Show
As you probably are aware Jean-François Lisée, a minister in the PQ government recently came under criticism for 'double-dipping,' that is accepting two government paid salaries at the same time.

Lisée is currently paid about $165,000 as a minister in the Quebec government, but was collecting until now, another $8,667 dollars a month from the University of Montreal. 

Within a day or two of the story breaking in la Presse, Lisée renounced the second salary, claiming that although he was entitled to it, he would donate the money to charity. Link

Lisée was hired as directer by the University of Montreal's  Centre d’études et de recherches internationales de l’Université de Montréal (CÉRIUM) in 2004 and because he demanded a salary that the university could not meet (because of university remuneration guidelines,) the school and Lisée concocted what can only be characterized as an unethical and underhanded, yet perfectly legal scheme, to pay him more money than the rules dictated.

The university agreed to credit Lisée a 'thirteenth' month of salary for each year worked, to be paid at the end of his employment as some sort of exit payment, something that did not contravene the letter of the guidelines, but certainly the spirit.
And so when Lisée left the university after eight years, the school as per the agreement, continued to pay his full salary for another eight months.
Those eight months were to carry him until February, 2013.
When all this hit the fan, Lisée decided to donate the future payments to charity, but not what he was already paid, so all we are talking about is the two months of these $8,667 payments, not that big a deal when you consider the taxes owing.

Instead of complaining over the double-dipping, which is entirely legal, nobody has challenged the university or Lisée on the ethics of the whole dirty deal.
It isn't much different from Tony Soprano 'convincing' a construction company to put a couple of his 'boys' on the payroll, without of course, the pesky obligation to show up to work.
Anyway you slice it, it is called a no-show job, a crude shakedown.

And let us remember, Mr. Lisée's $104,000 salary at the university was basically for part-time work. He continued to write for L’actualité magazine and for Le Journal de Montreal, as well as finding the time to write four or five books, as well as appearing on television regularly as a political commentator, as well as hosting his own television show, Planète Terre.TV
Link{Fr}
It seems that Lisée was collecting a salary from every direction, in the true spirit of MUHC consummate gonif Arthur Porter.

Oh and by the way, for his eight years of 'work' at the university, Lisée has earned himself an indexed $28,000 pension for life, which he is eligible to collect later his year!

It is these type of stories of naked greed and entitlement of those at the top of our society, that has those at the bottom asking why they should finance the orgy of entitlement.

Can one really fault students for refusing to accept increased tuition fees when the universities, both English and French engage in deceitful over-spending wherein the top echelon are paid outrageous salaries complete with immoral and unjustifiable pensions.
Before we anglos get on our high horse, Concordia university wins the prize for the most irresponsible board of directors offering the most outrageous severance packages to those in high places.
Think I'm exaggerating? Read this;
As university president, Judith Woodsworth has made an unlikely return to Concordia as a professor, despite having been compensated over $169,573 in “administrative leave pay” to help her get back on her feet.
On Dec. 22, 2010 Woodsworth left the university at the urging of the Board of Governors halfway through her term in office, receiving a $747,045 severance package that stands out as one of the hallmarks of a governance crisis that continues to plague the university. $900K Later, Judy’s Back in the Classroom
But exorbitant exit payments and double-dipping are part of Quebec society and since those who benefit from the practice are those that create the rules, it's easy to understand how we got to the point where a public employee can collect two generous and  indexed pensions, while the poor saps in private industry receive crumbs when they retire.

Let us understand the concept of double-dipping.
It is the act of either having two government or quasi-government jobs at the same time, or more likely, collecting a publicly funded pension (and I don't mean old-age security) at the same time as receiving a paycheck from the government or quasi-government agency.
It also means accepting two distinct publicly-funded pensions at the same time.

Let me give you some examples;

Ex-Premier Jean-Charest will collect a $100,000 plus pension from the Parliament of Canada when he turns 55 later this year.
When he turns sixty, he will be eligible to collect a Quebec government pension for his service in the National Assembly, which also works out to over $100,000 a year.
All this is indexed and so for the rest of his life, Canadian and Quebec taxpayers will be paying out two pensions, the equivalent of over $200,000 towards his retirement. Not bad.....
In fact the two pensions add up annually  to more money than Charest ever earned, even in his best year!
That's double-dipping.

A politician who serves for thirty years in Parliament in Ottawa will collect one pension, while a politician who serves fifteen years in a provincial Parliament, in addition to fifteen years in federal Parliament will collects two pensions and receive about 50% more in combined revenues at age sixty-five.

Consider Mr. Charest, (who I am only using as an example) who after his political career can choose to return to public life, perhaps as a government consultant or a member of the diplomatic corps, thus earning a third source of revenue from the government.
Triple-dipping!.....Call it a Dairy Queen special!

At any rate, let's go on.

There are to my knowledge at least three members of Quebec's National Assembly who are already collecting a publicly paid pension, while being paid to serve as an elected  member.
Guy Ouellette, Robert Poeti and Jacques Duchesneau are all retired law-enforcement officers who are each collecting a very generous, indexed police pension.
In Duchesneau's case, the pension is north of $100,000, according to my calculations.

The third type of double-dipping is what Mr. Lisee was doing, collecting two public salaries, in his case,  one from the university and one from the National Assembly.

But perhaps the most galling type of remunerations are the famous transition payments where some  receive a payment upon termination of employment, regardless whether the recipient was fired or left of his or her own accord.

Now I can accept as reasonable an exit payment paid to a defeated politician whose sole source of revenue is the paycheck received as an elected official. It is rough to know that with each election one can lose his or her job rather abruptly. 
Transitioning out of public life and being forced to find employment can be stressful and a safety net payment providing a replacement income for up to a year can be justified.

But these payments are also offered to public officials who quit their jobs of their own volition, something that is insulting to taxpayers. Some have jobs lined up the next day!

Even disgraced politicians who resign in the face of a public backlash are eligible for up to one year's salary.
And so the indicted ex-mayor of Mascouche, the soon to be indicted ex-mayor of Laval and the never to be indicted (but disgraced) ex-mayor of Montreal will all receive payments of tens of thousands of dollars.

The very worst exit payments that I can think of, were paid to four characters that left their jobs in a cloud of disgrace, having cost taxpayers dearly for their incompetence, mistakes or alleged criminality.

After the Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec's financial meltdown in 2009, whereby the public pension plan lost $40 billion dollars, or about 25% of it's value, Henri-Paul Rousseau, its boss, quit to take another position with Power Corporation a few months later.
Despite the utter financial disaster that he oversaw and ignoring the fact that he quit, Rousseau received an exit payment $380,000

Readers might recall the Îlot Voyageur fiasco where costs for the new UQAM building in Montreal exploded from the projected cost of $392 millions to $728 million.

The rector of the university, Roch Denis, was investigated for fraud, but in the end was not charged and the whole affair was charged to incompetence.
He left in disgrace, taking with him an exit payment of $173,000.
The other two UQAM directors who were blamed for the financial disaster by the auditor-general of Quebec also received generous exit payments upon their forced departures. Link{fr}
And remember, these three were responsible for the over $300 million in cost overruns!

And then there is the famous Claude Blanchet, husband of Premier Pauline Marois who as boss of a Société générale de financement (SGF) between 2001 and 2003 ran up losses of  $775 million, this while offering generous bonuses to himself and other highly ranked employees!

When he was shoved out of the job early, he 'negotiated' a sweetheart deal for himself, including a year's salary of $257K and a lifetime pension of $80,000!  Link{fr}

It's a bit ironic that Pauline Marois and the PQ raised a ruckus over the Liberal Party's practice of topping off Jean Charest's salary to the tune of $80K a year, considering that Quebec taxpayers will be paying the indexed pension of $80,000 a year to Pauline's jewel of a husband, a man who headed a dysfunctional agency that blew three quarters of a billion dollars of taxpayers money on his watch, FOR THE REST O HIS LIFE!

As for conclusions, I'll leave that up to readers, in the comment section.

102 comments:

  1. It's hard to justify wasting so much money as a government, when the province you govern is now the poorest in Canada. It also says a lot about the character of such a government worker who would accept payments in such an unfair way. In Charest's case, I wouldn't condemn his right to two pensions, because he worked for two separate governments. But if someone is taking money from the same government for both pensions and receivng alot more money than someone having worked the same amount, it's inexcusable. Clearly the system needs reform.

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  2. Well, now that I've had my 15 minutes of fame on this blog, life goes back to normal, whatever normal really is.

    Unfortunately, this type of crap goes on in Ontario as well, and every other province. How many MPs are ex-MLAs, or mayors, or municipal counselors? Brian Tobin, an ex-Liberal MP, went back to NF to become its premier.

    Ex-Ontario MPPs such as today's Finance Minister Jim Flaherty, Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird, another cabinet minister Tony Clement are three former cabinet ministers from the Ontario government, and there are others from other provinces doing the same double dip. Bob Rae comes to mind, and how about Lucien Bouchard? Both of them changed parties in the process, too!

    Like my life partner's father has stated, politics is a license to steal. There is a lot of witnessing and barking about the thievery, but nobody puts the bite on it.

    The top 1% of the population mostly consisting of CEOs, board directors and very senior executives are very generous with corporate money, so couple them with politicians and other senior and middle management bureaucrats, plus top echelon professional athletes and entertainers, and that's the new rich. The rest of us are "the 99%".

    When it comes to the public purse, there is no shortage of gonifs!

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    1. The top 1% of the population mostly consisting of CEOs, board directors and very senior executives are very generous with corporate money, so couple them with politicians and other senior and middle management bureaucrats, plus top echelon professional athletes and entertainers, and that's the new rich.

      The 1% own 50% of all "public" corporations!

      They are called “public corporations” but there is nothing “public” about them. By themselves, the Top 1% own roughly 50% of these mega-predators. Broaden that to the top-20%, and that figure rises to 90% ownership of all corporations. The Little People (i.e. the “public”) own virtually nothing of these corporations.

      The Billionaires vs. The Millionaires

      The next time a politician speaks of cutting corporate taxes, remember he is proposing a tax cut for the wealthiest 20% in our society!

      DD

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  3. And you want to make a country out of this?

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  4. Beryl Wasjman of the Suburban wrote an editorial last week in the Suburban with the headline: "Don't even think about it!"

    It has inspired a campaign to lobby Liberal MNAs to put them on notice that they are NOT to vote for Bill 14.

    I have sent an email to individual Liberal MNAs with the subject heading: "Bill 14" and the body of the message reading simply:

    DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT.

    If you are so inclined to do the same, the following is a link to all the email addresses of all of the National Assembly's 125 MNAs:

    http://canadaonline.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=canadaonline&cdn=newsissues&tm=7&gps=151_6_1067_481&f=10&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.assnat.qc.ca/en/deputes/index.html

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    1. Thanks Tony - I already sent one to my liberal MNA when they first proposed the bill. Everyone should participate in a letter writing campaign to stop the acceptance of this bill.

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    2. The ones that piss me off no end are the Bloc members who did nothing for Canada while sitting in the House of Commons after fraudulently taking an oath to the Queen but have their hand out at the end of each month to collect their pensions from Canadian taxpayers. I feel that they should not be allowed to sit in the House of Commons because their sole purpose is to promote separation and not to assist in the running of the country as those seats allocated to quebec are supposed to represent Canada, not just quebec. It is a blight on this country that we allow these criminals to collect money because they come by it dishonestly.
      We have to pressure Mr. Legault and company also because of the votes required to stop the bill.

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    3. Tony: If the MNAs, Liberal or otherwise vote for the Bill, then what? What's Beryl Wajsman going to do about it? What are you going to do about it? What are the rest of the minorities goint to do about it? Complacency and fighting Howard Galganov over the last 40 years have led to this!

      Cutie: The Bloc thing was such a good gig, its MPs didn't even want to switch to the PQ and double dip, except for Bouchard and maybe a couple of other unknowns. Sit in parliament, collect a good salary, a generous expense account, sit about 100 days a year and on those 100 days just shoot their mouths off. What a gig!

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    4. For sure - wish I knew how to go about that myself.

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    5. The problem with saying "don't even think about it" is that it sounds awfully bullish.

      It might actually have a reverse effect. If I got a barrage of emails like that (subject: bill 14, body: don't even think about it), I might vote for it just out of spite.

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  5. FROM ED
    I worked hard all my life. I raised a family, bought a house, bought cars. Took the family o great vacations
    but I had no head for business. I made big money ($600./wk in the 70's) gave it to my wife and went back on the road. She did wonders with it and we lived a reasonably wealthy life style. I never gave thought to pensions or the future and after my wife died and the kids went off married I didn't give much thought to anything. I discovered too late that the government had a pension plan that one could pay into. If I had worked in an office or factory there is usually someone from payroll who comes around each year to ask if you want to put money into the pension plan. I found this out to late and so I live on the basic pension of $1400. per month. I'm not complaining because I've had a good life and never wanted for anything. I have everything I need and more so I can't help wondering why people feel they are going to need so much money to sit back and enjoy life. Ed

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    1. Most people are just greedy Ed - that will never change.

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  6. LA Charte de la Langue "Francaise"

    1. We use Joual to legalize xenophoby, ethnical discrimination and ethnical cleansing.
    2. Canada has to pay us just because we speak Joual here.
    3. We use Joual as a pretext to discriminate Anglos and Importations.
    4. We use Joual to bar Anglos from government jobs and from management jobs. Those are for us pure-laine only.
    5. We use Joual to humiliate Anglos and Importations.
    6. We use Joual to racket the protection tax from everyone that wants to offer us jobs. We do not need the jobs anyway, OUR government has plenty. But we need the money.
    7. We use Joual to get fat paying Federal government jobs we cannot get by competence. And we hate the Federal.
    8. We need those pesky importations to pay taxes for our pure-laine on social welfare (government employees included).
    9. We still need those pesky Anglos to blackmail the Feds into giving us the perequation money.
    10. We give the notwithstanding finger to any non-pure-laine. Because everybody else is impure and must be deported.

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  7. I know a University professor who brags that he works only 84 actual days a year and makes $140,000.
    He gets a sabatical every five years (one wholeuyear off with pay) and plans to retire at 55 with a whopping pension. Considering how many of these doing the same and with politicos etc., has it occured to anyone that it may not be sustainable? Ed







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    1. I have serious problems with professors in general..once they get tenure they are untouchable. I had a few professors who should have been fired for incompetence but they had tenure and could not be removed. Plus they were making ridiculously high salaries. Universities and many professors are highly over-rated..they think a little too high of themselves in my opinion. We could use a lot more common sense in this world. I think if small business owners ran the country we would be all much better off. When you look at all the mismanagement around the world from university educated people its incredible..these geniuses in Wall Street who caused the crisis in 2008..all the university-educated politicians who cant balance their budgets..who think Keynesian economics makes any sense..who think keeping interest rates near zero for years is intelligent policy.

      Small business owners know how the real world works..they know how to balance the books..they can mulittask. Instead we have lawyers running our countries..people who are trained to defend anybody..even the worst criminals..hence are trained to be very good at persuading people even if they are lying through their teeth.

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    2. Don't work hard, work smart.

      Definition of working smart: Well, you need the innate skill of being a good shmoozer and self-promoter. That's how Obama got elected. That's how most CEOs become CEOs and politicians get elected and therefore get their license to print money...and load their pockets.

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    3. Sabbatical is not a year "off", it's a year of continuing education. You don't get to spend it in a resort in Mexico.

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  8. Separatists seem to be good at convincing their little sheep that only federalists and anglos are corrupt. Seems to me that "Les amis du Parti Libéral" has become "Les amis du PQ" pretty quickly.

    Now there's a plan I could actually get behind; putting effort into making the public realize that the PQ/separatists are just as corrupt (if not more) than the Liberals were. I'd write letters for that cause.

    I'm not sure if it would even be possible though, it would be like telling a union member that they'd be better off not paying union membership fees. No matter what, they're convinced it's for the greater good.

    Just like Parizeau before him, Lisée is just another well-off ignorant racist who's completely out of touch with the real world. I wonder if he even knows how milk costs, or the average salary in this province. I doubt he's ever done a day of real work in his life.

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  9. That's one of the problems with complicated and SR - they seem to feel it's only the liberals that are crooked (not that I've seen anything concrete so far) but overlook the fact that the PQ are just as bad if not worse than the liberals. None of these people seem to have any ethics whatsoever and will just keep pulling in the bucks. Power hungry, money grubbers, that don't give a damn about the ordinary citizens in this stinking province.

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  10. Thats why I believe the CAQ deserves a chance to change things in this province. Both the PQ and the Liberals have mismanaged affairs here for decades..they have proven over and over that they are incapable of managing our affairs. Its time to try a third option..if the CAQ proves after 4 years that they are no better then they get booted out but at least give them a shot.
    I dont need to hear anymore from the commission and all the other stories that the Liberals had serious corruption issues within their own party. Even if you choose to ignore all the dirt on them then you cant deny that they were in power over the past 9 years and surely must have known what was going on within the construction industry with the rigging of contracts. Did they do anything to counter the bid rigging that was rampant..they did absolutely nothing. Did they reduce our debt..no it went up another 60 billion or so. Did they make Quebec more competitive..no..we have fallen even further within Canada on many points..we now have one of the lowest incomes per capita.
    The problem with anglos like cutie is that they believe that they can keep doing the same thing and somehow things will change. Good luck with that..keep on voting for your precious Liberals even though time after time they have proven that they are incompetent and immoral.

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    1. Don't understand why you keep pushing the CAQ as so far they have not proven anything. Just because they "say" they will crack down on the unions, when the pressure comes to bear, I'm willing to bet that they will do the same as the PQ and the liberals - they'll fall into line because those union people can get pretty nasty and downright dangerous plus it'll be their turn to get into all the graft that goes on here. I'll bet JR is a union guy right down to his nasty little ass. These union people will not change anything until there is not a cent left in the coffers of this province. When their checks stop coming in, that's when they'll face the reality that they are paid far more than they are worth, and not until. That's the socialist lifestyle they are used to and it will continue till bankruptcy.

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    2. How can they prove anything when they havent been in power??? They have only been in existence for a little over 1 year and they got 27 percent of the vote which is incredible! They got 27 percent of the vote because quebecers..mainly francophones..are so fed up with the PQ and the Liberals. Can we give them a chance??
      Can we give them a chance?? If we went by your line of thinking then the Liberals would run this province forever..right into the ground. How many more years of incompetence and corruption do you need to see cutie before you might even consider that perhaps the Liberals are not the best choice??!!!!
      Incredible..the Liberals treat the anglos like absolute dirt and its the anglos who are their most loyal and devoted voters..what an abusive relationship..

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    3. Going to say it again - SEPARATIST PARTY - ties to PQ - no more need be said. I can't say I'm devoted to the liberals but there is no choice - the CAQ is not a choice!

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    4. That is completely false..they are NOT A SEPERATIST PARTY. Its you who has decided based on emotion and not logic that they are a seperatist party. They have several pretty staunch federalists on their team and they are committed to no talking about constitutional wrangling for at least 10 years..it doesnt get any better than that.

      You are hopeless..you exemplify the typical stubborn anglo who prefers to be abused year after year by the Liberals because of your sheer terror for any party that might have some previous links to the PQ. How come its ok for Raymond Bachand to have been in the PQ..why dont you ever bring that up cutie..

      Bachand was a pro-sovereignty supporter during the 1980 referendum, and an organizer for the 'Yes' campaign. Presently, however, he believe that Quebec should stay within the Canadian federation.[1]

      Do you think Bachand is still a seperatist at heart??? Why would one think that Legault is anymore a seperatist than Bachand is? It seems according to your logic that anyone who was in the PQ will always be a seperatist.is that what you really think? Are you saying that it is impossible for someone to change their mind on an issue such as sovereignty?? If you really believe these statementts then you are a lost cause. You are then not using any logic whatsovever but its purely emotional..its all about anger fear and hatred against the evil seperatists and it totally blinds you to making any rational decision.

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    5. You may be right Complicated, but I too would have a hard time voting for the CAQ, even if they're more to the right, which is what I'm looking for.

      How could you vote for a party that has Francois Rebello in it's ranks? I was all for the CAQ until he joined.

      Bachand may have been a separatist back when the whole concept made more sense (for the good of this province), he changed his mind as times changed, I can respect that. Legault and friends seem to have done a 180 overnight, simply by pure political opportunism. If he can change his mind that quickly, who's to say he won't change it back just as quickly?

      Legault can barely speak english, and we have no idea what he would have done on the language side of things. I'm guessing it wouldn't have been pro-anglophone. While the ADQ wanted to promote bilingual education, the CAQ seems more like a supporter of Bill 101.

      And finally, the truth is that if the CAQ hadn't been there to split the vote, the Liberals would have won the last elections and we wouldn't be facing new racist language laws and a decline in our economy today. I hope Pauline took the time to thank her old dear friend Legault.

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    6. I am not so sure about your last statement..if it was only the Libs and the PQ its quite possible the PQ would have won a majority. There was a lot of dissatisfaction with the Liberal party..not sure that all the CAQ votes were from the Liberals..I suspect many were from previous PQ voters. And lets face it the Liberals blew it over the past 9 years..they didnt deserve to win anyway..they did remarkably well mainly because so many people are not crazy about Marois and her gang. It was the stubborn Liberals which cost the CAQ many ridings in the end which would have ironically given the win to the Liberals.

      No party is perfect..Tony Tomassi and Line Beauchamp in my books were horrible choices. I can live with a few people like Rebello in the CAQ. We really need a party that is not focusing on the language issues..that just puts them on the backburner and focues all its energy on all the other real problems we have. I could care less about Bill 101..just leave it as is..we all live with it..its not that horrible in its current state. Lets get on with fixing the high tax, high debt, powerful unions, corruption, crumbling infrastructure. But if anglos continue to be stuck on the past..about anglo rights and the francophones are stuck on their language rights then nothing changes..Quebec continues to go down the drain.

      How many more years of PQ and Liberal rule can we take?? I say we are very close to the end here..the financial markets at some point will force the issue. If anglos want things to change then they better change their voting habits or it will be more of the same steady decline. How can the anglos continue to support a party like the Liberals that mismanage this province so badly and who have done little for anglos anyway.

      And your rationalization for Bachand doesnt fly..there is a double standard here..it seems if a Liberal was a former PQ then its ok..then he didnt really know what he was doing..if its a CAQ member then its something more sinister.

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    7. "Thats why I believe the CAQ deserves a chance "

      You're making good points about the PLQ, but a statement that the CAQ "deserves" a chance is a stretch. Deserves a chance based on what? Legault's PR-crafted overtures?

      The CAQ is a collection of former pequistes, adequistes, and liberals. The party may be new, but on the inside it's the same old.

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    8. Because I cant imagine how either the PQ or the Libs are going to improve things here in Quebec. They both are equally responsible for the mismanagement and decline of Quebec. To change things we need a new party with fresh ideas.

      We have such huge problems in Quebec with the debt, high taxes, corruption and so on as we all know. The CAQ was essentially born out of the immense frustration that all Quebecers have on the state of affairs. The name says it all..its a coalition for the future..to get Quebec back in shape and I think its great they have people from three different parties..there will more diverse ideas and opinions and the party could appeal to many different voting groups.

      The CAQ is the only party that has campaigned on cutting waste in government, cutting jobs in government, taking on the unions. I have lived in other provinces and it was common to hear parties talking about the need for cuts to balance the books. In Quebec I have never heard any party mention this except the CAQ..its because so many Quebecers live off of government benefits, government jobs and so on.

      There are no guarantees in life but I can pretty much guarantee that more of the Libs or PQ will mean more of the same. The CAQ is offering a fresh approach and we are running out of time to act. Could they fail..sure..I am not naive enough to think they could not end up as bad as the Libs or PQ but I dont think its likely at all.

      Plus as an anglophone I find it so demeaning to continue to support a party that takes the anglo community for granted. Lets show some self-respect for gods sake..some dignity and stop bending over backwards to support a party that treats the anglos so poorly.

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    9. Somehow, your CAQ pitch isn't working on me. And that's despite me agreeing with you on the Liberals and the PQ.

      Must be because of all these pequiste dinosaurs that populate the ranks of the CAQ.

      And honestly, who cares what they "campaign" on? These days you can campaign on anything and promise anything. As someone on another comments board I participate in astutely pointed out, in this age of PR, even the dumbest public persona learned to speak so nicely and eloquently, that it's become very hard to tell that they're idiots.

      As for taking anglos/allos for granted, the CAQ hasn't taken them for granted yet simply because it hasn't had a chance to do so yet. And all it wants is to have that chance. The CAQ can offer anglos/allos no more than the Liberals. Silly games and false promises. CAQ's electorate would allow it to do no more than that. The CAQ is, after all, a franco-centric nationalist party, like the other two.

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    10. I will vote for the CAQ if they promise to repeal Bill 14 if they get into power.
      If not, might as well go with the devil I know.

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    11. The CAQ is a new party. Complicated is giving it the benefit of the doubt. I don't. But we're both speculating at this point. My speculation is more skeptical/cynical, his is more "positive"/naive?. Mine might be a conspiracy theory, but maybe his is an innocence theory, something along the line of wishful thinking.

      But our theorizing will soon be backed up with hard evidence. The CAQ was new yesterday, but tomorrow or the day after it will already have a record. And we will be able to compare their voting record with that of the Liberals. And only then (and not until then) we can decide if the CAQ "deserves" our vote. We can't decide it just on the fact that the other 2 options are shitty. How do we know that this 3rd "option" isn't even worse? Because they "campaigned" on this or that?

      Soon, we will know if the CAQ is to be trusted or not. And my prediction is this: their voting record will be AT BEST as good for us as the Liberal one. Maybe it will be worse. It sure will not be better.

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    12. In my opinion we are going to have months and months of Liberals opposing PQunt bills and then not showing up to vote. The CAQ can posture and renounce these bills without the threat of government falling.
      For me the real test will be the next election. If they are a right of centre party who wants to end the war on small business they will promise to repeal that piece of shit 14. If going back to 2012 bill 101 is too much to ask for from the PLQ and CAQ then its time to say goodbye.

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    13. Well so far their voting record is better..all 19 CAQ voted against the budget wheras just enough Liberals didnt show up.

      If you are going to evaluate them solely on their record with respect to anglo rights then perhaps you will be disappointed. I am not voting for the CAQ because I want a party that repeals Bill 101. At this point the whole language issue in my opinion needs to go on the backburner. If all you care about is Bill 14 then you probably wont vote CAQ. I think Bill 14 is the least of our problems really.

      You can call me naive..but I guess I could call you very cynical. To change the inertia in this province we need another option. And I think it would be very healthy for the anglophone community to
      finally stand up to the arrogance of the Liberal party. There is another choice. You say the CAQ needs to prove that they deserve your vote..why do most anglos think the Liberals "deserve" your vote?? I cant actually imagine the CAQ treating the anglos any worse than the Liberals do..honestly the Libs treat the anglos like dirt..its quite pathetic really.


      Delete
    14. "If you are going to evaluate them solely on their record with respect to anglo rights then perhaps you will be disappointed."

      What else should I evaluate them on? Legault's "charm"?


      "I cant actually imagine the CAQ treating the anglos any worse than the Liberals do"

      In a province where the shitty treatment by the Liberals is actually offset by an even worse treatment by the PQ, I can.

      The CAQ can easily position itself between the PQ and the Liberals on the issue of language, and that's my prediction. And we'll see. What's wrong with waiting and seeing? What's the rush?


      "honestly the Libs treat the anglos like dirt"

      You're ruling out the fact that those that treat others like dirt can be surpassed by even worse thugs. Again, let's see what the CAQ will show us in the near future.


      Delete
    15. adksi - My point is that a lot of people on this forum should stop spending their life fixated on the language issue and a lot more time on the REAL problems in this province. I feel like a broken record..I am sure you are well aware of all the litany of problems we have..debt, taxes, corruption, unions, etc. The language issue wont matter if the province goes bankrupt..believe me financial issues always trump everything else in the end.

      Whats the rush..I just outlined whats the rush..look at the numbers adski..our debt is staggering..do you honestly believe we can put up with another 4 years or so of the PQ or Libs dithering while the debt continues to increase..the real estate bubble is popping in Canada..you will see tremendous pressure on the economy once the real estate market tanks..its starting..wait until interest rates start increasing within a year or so and the interest charges mount on our debt. We dont have time adksi..

      I dont think the CAQ can be worse than the Liberals..honestly..the Liberals have had a free rein for decades with the anglos..they think they own the anglos. The arrogance of the Liberals with respect to the english vote is breathtaking..it pains me to see how the anglo population puts up with such contempt and disrespect from this party and continues to support them..its really quite sad..

      But if honestly all you care about is electing pure federalists and focusing all your energy on nitpicking over english rights then you probably deserver the Liberals..

      Delete
    16. Yes, cause wanting a party that goes back to bill 101 circa 2012 makes you fixated on anglo rights.
      If you gave two shits about small business you‘d see what a piece of shit bill 14 is. But instead if those uppity anglos dare say a word you smack them down. Yet you constantly coddle separatists who whine about imagined wrongs of 40 years ago.

      Delete
    17. We don't think of our wanting our rights as "nitpicking" - I don't know how you live inside that head of yours.

      Delete
    18. " My point is that a lot of people on this forum should stop spending their life fixated on the language issue and a lot more time on the REAL problems in this province. I feel like a broken record..I am sure you are well aware of all the litany of problems we have..debt, taxes, corruption, unions, etc. The language issue wont matter if the province goes bankrupt..believe me financial issues always trump everything else in the end. "

      To me, language does happen to be a "real" problem. You can't ask me to de-prioritize it.

      The other issues are important, but if the language issue is not solved, these other issues will never become relevant. Because even if we solve the problem of corruption, economy, debt, etc...what good will it make if we're still second class citizens? How will we benefit from this improved economy? Wouldn't all the benefits will go to a different segment of the population (Montreal-based francophone "professional" bourgeoisie mostly)?

      At this point, we don't have a stake in making this economy work. But with the language issue solved, we would get that stake, and with it an incentive for working towards making this province better. But first hings first. Let's get rid of language apartheid, and then we can focus on other things.

      Delete
    19. The problem is that what many anglos on this forum want is never going to happen. You are never going to get Bill 101 repealed. You are not going to somehow convince the francophones that their language is safe and that we can go back to the way it was. There are too many examples around this country of the french language and culture getting wiped out..even here in Montreal is was happening. Hence this issue will never get resolved as long as most anglos here cling to their stubborn views. Which means that Quebec will continue to go down the toilet as all the energy from the anglos will again be stuck on this and all the energy from the seperatists will be stuck on language.

      I think the CAQ has the right idea..enough is enough with the never ending language battles. Lets just take a 10 year break from it as both sides are entrenched and show no signs of budging. During those 10 years at least we can fix all the other huge problems we have. Then at least some of the problems that are very serious will be addressed and perhaps after 10 years we will all have clearer heads.

      Do you honestly see any resolution to the language battles adski?? I listen to you and many anglos here and then listen to the seperatists and I see no hope..the two sides are both miles apart.

      Delete
    20. And will be as long as there are anglophones like you and separatists like SR.

      Delete
    21. right on adski - exactly how I, and, most of us feel. Loss of our rights and freedoms will always be foremost in my mind - the rest is an offshoot of the real issue.

      Delete
    22. "You are not going to somehow convince the francophones that their language is safe and that we can go back to the way it was."

      Then we'll be in the grind for years to come. Fine by me.


      "Hence this issue will never get resolved as long as most anglos here cling to their stubborn views"

      Then it won't.


      "Which means that Quebec will continue to go down the toilet"

      No problem there either.

      Delete
    23. Well you either dont live in Quebec or have so much money that you could care less..not too many people in your situation. I guess you are one of the lucky ones but there are a lot of people who are going to suffer in Quebec if we continue along the same path we have been going on.

      Delete
    24. Sorry I live here and if I had lots of money I wouldn't be, I can assure you. I'm totally with adski, nothing will change in this place until they scrape bottom caused by their own stupidity and their insistence that they can make it without the ROC. Then and only then will they smarten up and the separatist movement will die a lot faster when they're bankrupt. Maybe then they will see that it's better to let those areas go that want to go and leave the rest of us to hell alone.

      Delete
  11. All parties in Kebec and the rest of Canada are all the same. Just look at all the debt mounting since the 1960’s. This all started with Trudeau and it has just gotten worse each decade. No one is willing to cut, reduce anything…

    "We don’t want the party to end, the “free” trips, expense accounts…perks, gold plated pensions, free this, free that…Yes indeed, see we in government, are all entitled to our entitlements folks and we can’t stop that, at least not until we retire. Our unions say so, it’s ours and we want it now...$$” Nice eh? See what working for government has become? Go look at all the debt mounting. Governments all across Canada, the US… have been on a hiring binge, a spending spree for decades now. Government = police, fire, hospitals, teachers, lawyers…= high salaries, bonuses, pensions, perks… all out of control for decades now = More and more debt…making the connection yet?

    Try to digest this you over paid scum bag politicians, unions, government bureaucrats, executives, CEOS….Who do you think is going to pay off all this debt you are leaving your children, your grandchildren? That’s what I thought, you don’t care! You greedy scum bags..

    We know that the liberals and ndp will continue to grow government, increase debt…destroy future generations but the so-called “Conservatives’” will do just about the same. During elections, all they do is try to out promise, out spend the other parties…just sickening!

    Remember-The liberals, NDP brought in a lot of this expensive nonsense, bilingualism ( code for forced French and government jobs for the french, only outside Quebec while Kebec bans our language and history, bills 22, 178, 101…), multiculturalism, the charter, phony rights this, rights that, phony green crap…all this big government, high taxes BS but the Conservatives have done nothing to repeal any of this crap federally or provincially.

    “Conservatives” have allowed all of these expensive, divisive liberal polices, and departments to remain. How come?

    Solution? Well only one folks - We need a new party, a new leader willing to deal with the facts, the truth for a change. We need a real fiscally conservative, common sense leader/party…. Things need to be cut, reduced and eliminated in all government. Government is too big, intrusive, and they are accumulating too much debt, year after year after year. That’s right let’s get cutting non essential services, expensive waste, bilingualism, multiculturalism, phony rights departments…the charter, CBC, all this green nonsense, bring in a government salary cap, a hiring freeze, reduce pensions… all sorts of big government BS. The future is at stake here and no one is willing to deal with this, how sad, how pathetic, all of you clowns in government and mainstream media.

    The real issue that no-one is talking about is the private sector versus government sector. Government hiring, spending and debt is out of control and has been for decades. This is the great divide in Canada and its getting worse yearly.

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it; he is obligated to do so."-Thomas Jefferson

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. We dont need just a new party but a new system. Our current electoral system is a total joke..it is not democractic..it gives some voters much more weighting than others. It effectively makes large number of votes count for nothing..it is the main reason so many Canadians dont even both to vote anymore.
      We have rural ridings with a third the number of voters as some urban ridings so they effectively have three times the weight per vote..very undemocratic. Our first past the post system neans that all the vctes for second third and fourth place candidates are worth ZERO..even if the second place person loses by 1 vote. You have countless examples of vote splitting which totally distorts what the people really want. How many times have similar parties split the vote allowing another party to win. How many ridings would not have gone PQ if we had been using a ranking system or some other proportinal style system. The conservatives won a majority in Canada with 40 percent of the vote..60 percent of Canadisns voted for left-leaning parties but we get a conservative majority..is that the will of the people. The PQ won the latest election with 32 percent of the vote..they could have won a majoirty with 34 percent. 58 percent of Quebecers voted for parties that supported the tuition fee hike and who is in charge..the PQ who is doing the opposite.
      Our system is not working..it is not reflecting the true wishes of the people..this is not democracy but a bastardized form of democracy that continues to benefit the 2 mainstream parties at the federal and provincial levels. I suggest more people check out fair vote canada and write your mps to demand a fairer system. I can see only the NDP bringing in a new system..the Cons and the Libs will never do it as it does not benefit them. The Libs and the PQ will never do it either..the CAQ might.

      Delete
    2. I agree, the entire system is a mess.

      And people wonder why these parasites in office are always smiling; laughing…well they are laughing at us folks…all the way to the bank.

      While debt mounts, while people struggle financially, these parasites are doing what they know best. More photo ops, more spin…sweet piss all.

      This is what government does best folks, talk about it, have meetings, reports, papers, studies, spend more money…year after year…and poof before you know it, we are having another election,a new party in office so we better have a another report, more spin again and before know you it, poof, they are retired with a nice big fat government pension. Not bad for BS-ing us year after year.

      None of these people in office, in power want to resolve anything, want to downsize anything, want to reduce or eliminate anything. This is how government in its present state is set up to run. They are all trained to keep things running the same way, the status quo is the norm and they like it that way. No one hired, no one brought into government is allowed to cut, reduce, repeal things, downsize departments, polices…laws, get rid of waste. Its obvious by 5 decades of massive government growth, higher taxes, more and more debt that all of the current mainstream parties support the same big government BS.

      The entire system is designed to spend, increase debt, the size of government; increase taxes, user fees, gut the private sector…and none of the mainstream parties will do anything about it. They all like it this way. Debt has been mounting for decades now. The system is corrupt to the core. Liberal, Tory same old story!

      Try to digest this you over paid scum bag politicians, unions, government bureaucrats, executives, CEOS….Who do you think is going to pay off all this debt you are leaving your children, your grandchildren? That’s what I thought, you don’t care! You greedy scum bags. They are all becoming wealthy off of the private sectors dime folks. ALL Pure scum of the earth! Big government is a scam, one gigantic money sucking scam.



      Delete
    3. Fast forward to 2012, Complicated. The CWB is gone, and more and more we are seeing American produce on store shelves, and being sold CHEAPER THAN OUR OWN DOMESTIC PRODUCE! Our most important citizens, our farmers are being thrown under the bus by our politicians. Without agriculture, Canada would be nothing today. It wouldn't even exist. And you're telling me you want to get rid of our electorate system? If anything, more ridings need to be created in rural areas to return the balance.

      Delete
    4. I believe in true democracy where everybody vote counts equally. Right now the rural vote typically counts more..that is fundamentally unfair. Its the urban areas that is driving the growth in the world today. Its the urban areas that desperately need money to upgrade crumbling infrastructure. Sorry but anyone who statts deviating from all votes are equal is heading down a dangerous slippery slope away from democracy.

      In actual fact farmers are doing a lot better than they were 20 years ago..many crop prices have moved up substantially. Times were very bleak in the prairies back in the 1980s and 1990s..things are much better now. I think the growth of China and India will be very positive for agricultural commodities over the next 10-20 years..not worried about our farmers..they will be fine. We dont need the CWB nor the dairy board interfering in the marketplace.

      Delete
    5. You clearly have very different political views than I. I respect and understand that. I do, however, believe that it's a bit unfair to say that the current system is undemocratic and that I'm heading away from democracy by supporting it. It has worked for the past 145 years, and elected us great leaders. You are entitled to your opinion, but I politely disagree with it.

      Delete
    6. The system we have is pseudo-democratic. Its a lot less democratic than it is sold as..it often does not reflect the will of the people well at all as I have noted in many examples earlier. Most Canadians dont want a right wing party in charge and thats what we have..seems to me that is not true democracy. Most Quebecer do not want Pauline Marois in charge and thats what we have. In reality I think most Quebecers want to see a Liberal-CAQ coalition which in the end might be the best option.
      Great leaders..I cant think of one great leader in Canada during the past 50 years or so. I dont think our system has worked well at all. I think many Canadians have stopped participating in the process because the system is so unfair.

      Delete
    7. If we went the way Fair Vote Canada wants to go in democracy, and I'm not so sure it's totally unreasonable, I don't think this country would be able to make a decision on anything. As the old saying goes - too many cooks spoil the soup. Legislation would be held up forever. I'm not saying it's wrong, just very confusing and complicated. The same as you guys worry about a checkerboard effect of having municipal or federal district referendums and the ensuing problems associated with it, I can see our system going through major problems if we switch the voting system. Correct me if wrong, but wasn't it India that did this and it turned our to be a total mess?

      Delete
    8. A lot of countries in the world..notably in Europe have coalition governments and they manage. The downside os as you point out that decisions would be slower. However in the end you wouldnt have legislation shoved down everyones throats for 4 years. The conservatives have free rein now for 4 years..dont think thats healthy either. And again it does not reflect the views of most Canadians.

      Delete
  12. FROM ED
    If Legault hd said no separation at all, I would vopte for him. But the fact that he said ten yesra makes it clear that sep[arating is still in his heart. Why else would he hang onto this idea. I still say if Pauline is kicked out he would jump in her place in a second.to try and be premier with a majority government. Complain all you want about the Liberals but there are three impoertant factyore to consider.
    1. They got double the votes that the CAQ got. Shows they are the most poular
    2. They kept the economy moving forward and beat the seps in last referendum.
    3. We knowwhat to expect, which is what this province needs right now, stability.
    Most important right now is get a federalist party elected. A party is useless if it is not winnable. Ed

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 1. They got 27 percent of the vote..the Libs got 31.5 percent..not double the vote..but 4.5 percent more.
      Given that they are a one year old party those numbers are very impressive..it shows the massive discontent with both the PQ and the Liberals.
      2. The economy has been chronically underperforming every other province over the Liberal mandate. So again the Liberals have nothing to pat themselves on the back for. They did increase the debt by another 60 billion..what a performance.
      3. Yeah we know what to expect all right..more incompetence..more mismanagement..continued indifference and disdain towards anglophones..more corruption..if this is what you want then by all means vote for the Liberals.

      Delete
    2. OMG complicated - Don't you get it? If he was not a separatist he would not have put a 10
      year date on holding a referendum! For Christ's sake man, get it into your head that if we had voted for the CAQ and they had a majority, separation would still be hanging over our head in this stinking province. As long as that threat is there, we are sinking like a stone and will continue to do so. Even if they had been elected, it would have boosted support for separation because the soft nationalists would have seen it as a green light to a referendum! It also would be perceived as a vote to leave Canada by the ROC. Geez, man, smarten up. In this province anyone who is not at least trying to look like a federalist, is perceived as an option to leave Canada and we cannot afford to have that happen! The rest in insignificant at the present time because we're going down man and we'd better hope that the ROC is there when the rubber hits the road. Until these rebels are permanently on their way out and the voters see what fraud has been perpetrated upon them, we're doomed!

      Delete
    3. 10 years is more than enough for me. If they can turn things around..fix the REAL problems in this province then I really dont care what they do after 10 years. I would rather live in an independant but financially sound country of Quebec than a federalist province of Quebec that continues rotting away. What you dont get is that the problems now are not language..the real problems are the debt. the high taxes, the waste in government, the corruption, the power of the unions, the incredible leftist slant of the governments here -thats whats really killing this place. The language issue is a sideline..it becomes meaningless if everyone becomes destitute. We dont have any more time to dither about language..electing the Liberals again will be just another knife in the heart to Quebec..it will mean more of the same..a decline..we dont have any more time left to dither. Just look at the numbers..the debt numbers are really horrendous..just imagine what happens when interest rates rise from the record low levels they are at..kaboom..

      Delete
  13. FROM ED
    Sorry about the typos I need a new keyboard which I will purchase tomorrow. Ed

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Je vous conseille L'atelier du futur ou Meilleur achat

      Delete
    2. I've never heard of those stores....are they located in France?

      Delete
  14. http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/12/11/brittany.language/index.html

    Link above is about the Breton language and its chances of being extinct. Funny thing is that while Quebec gives primacy to the french language, before french revolution French was not the common language of France. In Quebec there would have been a similar situation.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. French is not an endangered language. It is spoken in over 55 countries around the world. Quebec French is not included on any worldwide lists of endangered languages. Only aboriginal tongues are in trouble here, i.e. Mohawk, Algonquin, Huron-Wyandot and Cree. The Quebec government has done nothing at all to protect these languages despite labeling itself as a defender of linguistic diversity.

      I would love to see some QC Native reserves place restrictions on French by claiming their languages are threatened because they are surrounded by a sea of Francophones, and then watch the hypocritical French language supremacists howl.

      Delete
    2. Jarry Street,

      "...before french revolution French was not the common language of France. In Quebec there would have been a similar situation."

      Before the french revolution, even until early XXth century, french was not spoken by everyone in France. New France settlers spoke different related languages (breton, normand, etc). But french was their common language. Because of their small number, the settlers did not develop parallel societies, for instance, a breton village, a normand village, etc. They all mixed and spoke french to understand each other.

      So la Nouvelle-France was the first society in the world in which french was the common language of all classes, people, elite, everyone.

      (Side note : the New France settlers also learned many native languages, something that few have done in New England.)

      Delete
  15. http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/national/Harper+draws+line+bilingualism/7720650/story.html

    Also Harper doesn't openly go against bill 14 or 101.

    ReplyDelete
  16. The GD constitution should be amended to stop abuse of the rights and freedoms of the citizens of Canada and PET was by far from infallible. There should be a clause in there like the US has that says the borders are inviolate. That would put a stop to this on-going abuse of our rights and freedoms in this lousy province.

    ReplyDelete
  17. U.S. retailers, restaurant chains beat a path to Quebec

    http://www.montrealgazette.com/retailers+restaurant+chains+beat+path+Quebec/7701679/story.html#ixzz2FYtr9a3a

    ?!?

    ReplyDelete
  18. Update on Depardieu: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2250593/Gerard-Depardieu-stocks-Frances-finest-foods-Paris-moving-Belgium-lower-taxes.html

    ReplyDelete
  19. FROM ED
    Complicated do you use copy and paste to continue the same argument about the CAQ over and over and over and..... Day after tired day, week in week out. The election is over, Liberals beat the CAQ, you're kicking a dead horse. almost everyone on the site has told you they disagree but you go on and on trying to convince them that you are the only one who knows what's right. I WAS THERE. We did not suppress the French. I WAS THERE. French and English got along well. I WAS THERE. We did not refuse to speak French, my friends and I were bilingual. I WAS THERE in '76 when Levesque turned the French against the English and we felt the chill of ostracization for the first time. I WAS THERE. I know what I'm talking about and apparently so does evryone but you. Yet you go on and on and on and on and ........................Ed

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Really strange how separatists hate the US but can't wait for their organizations to open businesses here - another two faced fact about the seppies.

      Delete
    2. Non cutie,vous n'avez pas compris (encore):Le Québec n'est pas aussi repoussant pour les investsseurs étrangers (anglos) que vous,les angryphones,le prétendez.Il semblerait que ce sont les "canadians" qui ont un problème avec le Québec.

      Delete
    3. I WAS THERE is a pretty weak argument ED. A lot of other people were there too and they dont paint the same rosy picture as you do. You are giving us your impression of how things were based on your point of view..an anglo point of view. There are many other points of view that contradict totally with what you are saying. You talk to many francophones and they will tell a very different story.
      You guys are pretty much spouting the same angry rhetoric day after day..maybe thats why I keep pounding my point of view.

      Delete
    4. The people you are talking to have been taught that this is what happened. They've been brain washed by the politicians and by the separatist families and the french school system and most of what you hear nowadays are fables that have grown and mushroomed since the 1960s. I was working in the 196s0 and the french and english got along just fine in the workplace, thank you. Ed is right - there may have been a few problems in a few places but overall we got along just fine. We mixed socially and in school without any animosity between the two cultures.

      Delete
    5. I have talked to people who are older who lived through it..they arent hearing it from someone else..they were there. Its funny that when you talk to older anglos they always talk about the past in such glowing terms..everyone got along fine..everyone was happy..thats not what I hear from most francophones were lived through those times. I think it was great to be an anglo in those days..you could work in english freely..it was the francophones who were obligated to work in englihs..it was the francophones who were obligated to switch to english when dealing with an anglophone. You may think that many francophones were happy..but obviously that wasnt the case. Do you really think the entire seperation movement came out of nothing..it exploded after decades and decaded of frustration and resentment against the minority anglophone population that showed little respect for respecting the rights of francophones..the right for them to work and live in their language.

      Delete
  20. FROM ED
    Comp, Ya'd make a great defense lawyer, trying to convince witnesses they didn't really see what happened.

    ReplyDelete
  21. too many Uncle Tom's on this blog,,,, some Seppie PLO wanna be could plant a bomb, murder innocent people.. and these clowns would say that due to historic grievances these people would be justified...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. As they've already done that back when and the people who did it are still considered hero's by the seppies, you know history would definitely repeat itself. Would be a totally different story if some federalist did it though - he would be in jail forever without a thought from the seppies even though the guy may do it through frustration of having his rights and freedoms taken away every time these seppies step into the majority at the National Assembly. We need the francophone population to rise up against the government's interference in every aspect of their life - don't know when they will realize that all these bills go totally against their well-being and are a disadvantage rather than an advantage to them. Some potential leader of either the liberal party or a new party has to be strong enough to speak out against these bills and show the public that they are falsehoods perpetrated on them by greedy, selfish politicians and not for protection of their language at all. Where is he and who is he is to be determined but now is the time we need someone like that to get this province out of the funk it's in.

      Delete
    2. "Some potential leader of either the liberal party or a new party"

      How about the CAQ...? ;-P

      Seriously tho... while I like the CAQ's idea of letting the dog lie for a decade, I get that you don't. Still, I think the "once a 'seppie', always a 'seppie'" narrative is counter-productive & demonstrably false (I've changed my mind a lot on different ideas). Your partition plan is similar to separatism, really -- I wudnt want any1 2 call u a 'partie', tho.

      Delete
    3. I can assure you, that had Mr. Legault renounced a referendum and promoted federalism, even spoke of the unfairness of Bill 101, had said anything to ensure some stability in this province by saying he would try to work with the ROC to solve mutual problems, etc. he would have received a hell of a lot more votes than he did. Yes, my partition plan would seem similar to separatism and I wouldn't even suggest it if I could forsee any other way of this disaster that we have been living for the past 40 years. Even if things weren't getting worse instead of better, I wouldn't suggest it either but things keep going downhill and I don't see any other solution. Call me a partie if you like tho - lol

      Delete
    4. There aren't too many Uncle Tom's but for sure complicated is one -

      Delete
    5. If he had done that he would have received a lot more votes from the anglo community but probably a fair bit less from the francophone community. He has more to gain from the francophone community then the anglophone community..he knows how stubborn the anglos are..even if he had come out as a strong federalist many anglos still wouldnt have voted for him because they are just too entrenched in their ways. The CAQ is trying to appeal to a broad audience including some soft nationalists, soft federalists and even the anglophone population. If they can get enough support from these three groups they can win. Given they are 1 year old they did exceptionally well. I suspect if they continue to play their cards as they have they will do much better in the next election. I dont think people are going to flock back to the Liberals..well..except the anglos.

      The main point of the CAQ is to get away from the language issues..people like you cutie are as much a problem as the hardcore seperatists..both sides are so inflexible. 10 years ignoring the language issue would be wonderful..if we could go 10 years and just leave Bill 101 the way it is..and focus all our energy on fixing the real problems then that would go a long ways.

      Delete
    6. Wow - you even manage to turn this around. Goes to show that he doesn't care about the anglophone community either but you are asking us to vote for him. 10 years to a referendum but we will fix the economy in the meantime. You are something else.

      Delete
    7. And to add to that: considering that support for separation is down to 28% and he knew that, he should not have talked about a referendum at all.

      Delete
    8. I would take the resolution of some problems over the next 10 years instead of ZERO resolution of any problems. If we continue the status quo as you want then no problems get solved and things just get worse. Aren't you arrogant..do you think every party in Quebec should be begging for votes from the anglo community..do you really think the anglo community deserves priority treatment with respect to all the other pressing issues in this province. Dont except the CAQ to come begging for your votes..and dont expect them to repeal Bill 101 and so on. They are going to focus their energy on the economy, the debt, corruption, infrastructure and so on..the real issues that most Quebecers are concerned about. We have had enough whining about language issues from both the hardcore seperatists and the extremist anglos.
      If he came out as a federalist then he would lost some soft core nationalist votes and he needs those to win. He needs those votes more than the anglo votes and in reality he doesnt have much hope with the anglo votes anyways and I am sure he knows it.

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  22. Hi Complicated,

    I shared your high hopes of a CAQ government; still, I think that their outcome for a first election was very impressive and lays a serious foundation to build on in future. I understand you're frustrated with the same-old same-old party shuffling; I am as well. Still, maybe some voters just need time to kick the tires. A lot of people are not ready to vote for a new party among a crop of reliable institutions (as unreliable as they may seem to us!). I was a bit let down that Legault didn't get all the support needed to win; but he did fine. I'd channel my energies into positive thoughts for the next time.

    Please, if you would have the patience to share your views, could you describe more how you see the old anglo population oppressing the franco population. I'm aware of a lot of Church oppression and I'e heard apocryphal "speak white here in Eaton's" stories (which are rude and obnoxious, though not, to a student of black rights in America or gay rights around the world, particularly oppressive). You type a lot about the franco view of oppression by the English; what are more details, if you please? Many thanks.

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    1. I am not naive enough to think the anglos are going to flock to the CAQ. There is frankly a much higher chance of many soft-seperatists moving to the CAQ than the anglos. Fear is the most powerful emotion..most anglos are terrified of the seperatists hence any party that includes people who were or are leaning towards seperation just invokes the fears. I am not sure its possible to get around this..essentially many of these anglos (I suspect generally those over the age of 50) are pretty well a lost cause. I suspect that some of the younger anglos and those anglos who have lived elsewhere would be more open to the CAQ.

      I have spoken to many older francophones who have told me stories about how it was in the past..before the 1970s..when they would walk into stores in Montreal and would not be served in french..or having to speak english only at work. Even now with my own eyes and ears I have seen this..I have seen francophones served only in english..I was at a clinic last week and this older francophone woman was asking me for some help and a nurse walked by and started speaking in english to her..the francophone woman switched to english but her english was pretty poor. There is still often a reluctance for anglophones to switch to french..they tend to expect the francophone to speak english. Until this changes then I dont see why one should expect francophones to believe that their language is safe especially in Montreal. If Montreal becomes totally anglophone dominated then what..its the largest city in the province by far. Many of my francophone colleagues still complain about this..they often are not served in their language in Montreal.
      Its still better than it was but there are still lingering problems. How about trying to watch a french movie in Montreal..practically all the movies are hollywood productions typically in english. Good luck trying to find a french movie on the west island even though many francophones liver here.

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    2. Of course the movies from Hollywood are going to be in English - Why would Hollywood pay to have their movies translated to French? If there are French movies available why not speak to the manager of the theater and ask him to bring in French movies? Again, nothing will change if you do nothing. If your friends are bilingual what's the problem? That is the problem - making trouble when there is no need. Perhaps their French is poor or they have had comments made to them about how poor their French is. Happens all the time with the francophones making the anglophones feel bad if their French isn't perfect. I have never, ever made fun of someone trying to speak English but the reverse isn't true in many instances.

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    3. Hollywood translates it moves in many many languages..you know they do show these moves in countries all over the world including french speaking countries. I am talking about movies made in France or in Quebec..good luck trying to find them in much of Montreal. To be honest, the moves from Hollywood are absolute garbage..but they have the big marketing budgets..they advertise them to the nth degree..there are so many good movies from other countries and even from here in Canada..but thats another subject.

      Its just typical of anglos feeling the world should revolve around them..of course cutie why should Hollywood make their moves in other languages..why should anything be made in another language right. Why should any anglophone have to speak a language other than english when they go to any country..right??

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  23. FROM ED
    TAZ They planted more than one bomb and people were killed. A 16 year old boy who was paid ten bucks to deliver a package, didn't know he was delivering a bomb to a shoe factory full of innocent workers. They set off the bomb when he placed it on the desk of the receptionist, who was also killed. Two totally innocent people were murdered by the FLQ and when they walked into a Parti Quebecois convention, they were given a standing ovation. To show appreciation for their murdering ways. Ed

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  24. To Cutie - Though I didn't care much for Complicated's style when he first appeared here, I saw over time that I have far more in common with his point of view than many. One of the only differences between me and Complicated is that I'm a born Quebecois and a 50/50.

    Though I agree with him that it's time for a changing of the guards (meaning out with both the Liberals and the Parti Quebecois), I don't believe the CAQ is the answer.

    See, Legault is a made man - he already has all the money in the world from his venture in the transportation industry - so you can be assured he's not in the game for money...that is what gives me pause about the man.

    What you have to understand about Legault is that he's an entrepreneur...meaning that by nature he's impatient. Just check out the profiles of any serial entrepreneurs. No matter how much or how little money they have, they MUST build new enterprises - or they wither.

    So to see that Legault is demonstrating patience of this nature leads me to believe there may be ulterior motives.

    --

    Overall, Quebec's ultimate change will NOT come from a political party, but from the people.

    This population is on the verge of eruption from so many areas.

    --The students erupted and were aided by the public union leaders
    --Tax payers opposed to the students aired their grievances with their votes and letters to the media
    --Almost every second day the Charbonneau Commission is stirring up anger in the public
    --Most normal regular Quebec residents are dropping sovereignty
    --The PQ balked at funding infrastructure maintenance, meaning there will be more public accidents

    This is something only privatization can fix, meaning that is what will come in over the coming years.

    The PQ, the clown college that it is, will be swept aside, the Charbonneau Commission will sweep out mafia rule which will usher in the muscling of legitimate private interests...

    ...and this privatization movement will also be fueled by rampant unemployment, the eventual dissolution (via supreme court of Canada) of union powers.

    Like one of my favorite songs says... "Don't worry, it's coming"

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    1. Yes, I agree - big problems coming. The population have to revolt against the establishments as we know them.

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    2. No argument from me there..we are heading towards Greece status soon and yet we continue to bicker about language. Most anglos seem content here to maintain the status quo but I really dont want to hear any whining from them in a few years when things really get bad here..just wait until the real estate bubble really deflates combined with increased interest rates..

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  25. FROM ED
    Coalition Avenir Québec Leader François Legault, who has skated a fine line during the election campaign with his views on Quebec's separation from Canada, says sovereignty is economically feasible, but not a priority for him right now.
    In an interview on CBC Montreal's morning radio show Daybreak, Legault repeated his vow that he won't even consider independence for Quebec for at least 10 years.
    Interview 5 questions with François Legault
    But even as he discussed the issue that tends to rattle the bones of the province's minority linguistic groups, Legault sought to woo English-speaking voters, telling host Mike Finnerty that anglophones have a long, storied past in Quebec and are part and parcel of the province's vibrancy.
    Legault has inflamed his campaign rivals with his delicate balancing act on the sovereignty issue. Liberal Leader Jean Charest has pointed to the CAQ leader's five years as a Parti Québécois cabinet minister and past support of independence, labeling him a closet sovereigntist.
    Legault himself repeated on Tuesday that "I'm not a federalist, I'm a Nationalist.
    He did not specify which nation.
    24 year old Francois Legault was at the PQ convention in 1981 when the whole body stood to give a rousing ovation to the FLQ murderers who
    robbed banks , bombed human beings and selectively murderered the Minister of Justice. He joined the party at 19 yrs. old and in 1981 supported Pauline Marois.
    He says sovereignity is not an issue for him RIGHT NOW. In Ed

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  26. Have we gone through a whole day with no comments from our troll? What a nice day.

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  27. FROM ED
    Complicated, It's time to stop the bullshit. There is not a nurse in Quebec who doesn't speak French. They have to pass their tests in french.
    You keep refering to these inconspicuous people that say the english were rude but you have many here on line that have told you the opposite and you ignore what they say. Of course there were people who were rude to Francos and the same people were rude to Anglos because rude poeple are rude people. The fat lady in Eaton's was a total lie. At the time the Gazette said Eaton's insist on staff being clean and well groomed but if some older employees have put on weight over the years
    should they be fired for it. The saleslady had no reason to know french at that time. Montreal was divided east and west. If you went into Dupuis Freres in the east end you would not find a sales clerk who could speak English. We communicated with signs and bilingual words and were happy with it. I have never seen anyone who tried to rewrite history the way you do.
    Stop your fucking bull shit. Ed





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    1. So why did the nurse not switch to french them. I heard it with my own ears..the nurse spoke english to the woman and the woman switched to a very poor english. Speak to a lot of francophones your age Ed and they will tell stories that are not nearly as glowing as you do. From your anglo point of view everything was fine..you never was forced to speak french ED..you likely always were able to work in your language. There were many francophones who did not have that option right here in Quebec. I guess the entire movement for seperation had nothing to do with this..why would so many francophones be so angry and want to leave this country ED. Do you really think there was nothing behind this? I think there are too many anglos that are still in denial.

      I know so many anglos who grew up in Montreal..generally all moved away in the 1970s..who barely speak a word of french. How the heck can you grow up in Montreal and not speak any french?? Obviously the anglophone community in general didnt give a damn about french and the french culture if they couldnt even speak a few words..its very telling..very telling. There are so many older anglos in Montreal now who dont speak any french..why is that??

      Stop your rose coloured commentary ED..if the french and english got along so swimmingly well then we wouldnt had the PQ come into existence and we wouldnt be dealing with language issues ad nauseum.

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  28. My loathing for this man will not fade...

    http://www.montrealgazette.com/entertainment/Kotto+plans+culture+Quebec/7722502/story.html

    Worse yet, the Gazoo zapped a couple of comments that sentiment my own.

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    1. Damn, who‘s a bigger Uncle Tom, Kotto or Complicated?

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    2. Must be me James..do you feel better now?

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  29. conflicts of interests should be eliminated
    Citizens have a right to expect that all public officials will perform their duties in a fair and unbiased way, and that the decisions they make are not affected by self-interests, private affiliations, or the likelihood of personal gain or loss.
    The best way to handle conflicts of interests is to avoid them entirely.

    Philippe Couillard must explain everything about these scandals

    some examples

    1-Dr. Thomas Marrie, the dean of the faculty of medicine at Dalhousie University
    Work in University King Saud for Health Sciences international advisory board
    He has faced Criticism is mounting of the plan by the medical school of Dalhousie University to sell to 10 seats in each year's entering class to Saudi Arabia at $75,000 each.
    2-Wendy Nicklin is the President and Chief Executive Officer of Accreditation Canada, and as such,she is a recognized health care leader across Canada and internationally a member of the Institute of Corporate Directors, an advisory member of the Centre for Health System Design and Management network, and a member of the Canadian Alliance for Sustainable Health Care. Within the International Society for Quality in Health Care (ISQua), she is an Honorary Advisor to the Board, Chair of the International Accreditation Program Council, member of the Research Working Group, and an ISQua surveyor. Ms. Nicklin has academic appointments to Queen’s University and the University of Ottawa, and is on the advisory committees of the Queen’s University Masters of Science in Healthcare Quality Program and the University of Toronto Masters of Science program on Quality Improvement and Patient Safety.
    has been appointed as a member of the international advisory panel of the Minister of Health of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
    After months CBAHI Obtains the ISQua Accreditation
    3-Dr. Andrew Padmos, Chief Executive Officer of the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada (the body that specializes in training and the oversight of competence for Canada’s physicians and surgeons)
    Activity became the Royal Canadian College internationally, especially in Saudi Arabia,
    working in Saudi Arabia more than in Canada
    a member of the international advisory panel of the Minister of Health of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
    a member of the International Advisory Board of the General Organization for King Faisal Specialist Hospital


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  30. " If you had no choice but to speak another language to get a job and werent served in your own language in many establishements when you were part of the majority language I would think that is quite unfair and would eventually lead to some anger"

    My apologies for not "getting"? It as the hip young people say; I know this is an emotional topic for you which may lead to frustration if you feel you're not being heard. I can work with that, though, and continue to try to understand.

    I look at the above scenario and I don't grasp the situation clearly: How/Why are the majority of jobs (by the description, one might infer the vast majority, nearly all, of jobs) be in a minority language??? Surely there must have been just as many French restaurateurs, farmers, news publishers, hoteliers (just to use my own employment experience as a loose frame) hiring employees as there were English? By your description ("majority"), there would be even more businesses run by French owners serving French people, no?? Please have patience with my inexperience of older dayz of yore; I am confused how this "oppression" would have transpired. How can a much smaller minority serving a larger majority populace be forcing minority language on them?

    I can't wrap my head around the math you describe

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