While Mr. Beaulieu is crude and visceral, Mr Lisée is calm and seemingly reasonable, which makes him all the more dangerous.
Jean-François Lisée is every bit as determined to advance the cause of the French language on our backs, his smooth-talking spiel nothing more than a clever device to camouflage his true intent.
I am reminded of the wonderful scene in The Exorcist, a story of a girl whose body and mind is possessed by the devil.
An elderly priest is called to perform a exorcism and when he arrives the young attending priest describes what the devil has been up to.
Father Merrin, (played by the inimitable Max von Sydow,) the experienced exorcist, lays down some ground rules for the younger and less experienced Father Karras to follow, telling him that it is;"Especially important is the warning to avoid conversations with the demon. We may ask what is relevant but anything beyond that is dangerous. He is a liar. The demon is a liar. He will lie to confuse us. But he will also mix lies with the truth to attack us. The attack is psychological, Damien, and powerful. So don't listen to him. Remember that - do not listen!" Watch the scene
And so it seems we are to be treated as exotic animals, needing 'special' handling as by a zookeeper, all because we are not 'true' Quebecers.
In choosing the talented Mr. Lisée, the PQ adopted a clever strategy, one where they feign interest and concern, but in truth are running nothing more than a cruel and cynical game of rope-a-dope, and unfortunately, there are plenty of dopes in our community that have fallen for his ruse.
And so he comes a courting, visiting our English school boards to 'discuss' the linguistic situation with officials, who fall over themselves, giddy with excitement to explain to a 'sympathetic' Peequist, the tribulations of falling enrolment. Link
What a colossal humiliation and waste of time and an utterly pitiful scene to endure!
It is nothing more than a sad spectacle of the absurd, a cruel pantomime played out with anglophones as the butt of a separatist joke!
Mr. Lisée toys with us like a kindergarten teacher pretending to take her charges seriously in a game of Ring-Around-the-Rosy
Rather than engage him in 'pseudo' negotiations, which are really nothing more than exercises in bad faith, we should heed the old adage, which tells us to be Beware of Greeks bearing gifts
Wake Up!!!
A cursory examination of Mr. Lisée's record would have a thinking person surmise that he isn't there to help us at all, rather the opposite and as they say, "A leopard doesn't change its spots."
Read this story by Don MacPherson and honestly tell me that engaging this paranoid Anglophobe is really in our best interest.
“We refuse to be the generation that will see Montreal marginalize French! We shall not accept that francophones soon are in the minority on the island and we shall not let French lose its critical mass in Quebec’s metropolis.”
Does that read as anglo-friendly to you? Read:Lisée building bridges? Is this a joke?
Here's one of my favourite examples of how faulty assumptions lead to faulty conclusions;
In an article written in the Montreal Gazette, Lisée told us that;
“CEGEP is important for linguistic transfer. It is the time when young people make lasting friendships, find a marriage partner, start a job. We want that to happen in French.” – Jean-François Lisée LinkLet me tell you what journalist Lise Ravary said about that statement in the Journal de Montreal;
“As a colleague pointed out, replace the word "French" with the word "white" ... and it would have caused a scandal. We would have been talking about apartheid.” Link{Fr}So it seems that our 'reasonable' Mr Lisée is deathly afraid of the mixing of the linguistic races.
I wonder how things would be perceived in Germany if a political leader would outline his goal of seeing Berlin returning to its Aryan roots.
At any rate Mr Lisée is just wrong in assuming that allowing the mixing of the pure-laine with dangerous anglophones in cegep will lead to anglicization through marriage.
A study by the English Montreal school board indicates that when Anglos and Francos partner or marry, in two-thirds of the cases, the children attend French school and in fact, French becomes the family language.
If anything Francophones attending English cegeps leads to francization, NOT anglicization!
Other ridiculous notions held by Mr. Lisée is his steadfast anger against so-called transfer schools, a hot button issue which really shouldn't be one.
Certain families, whose children are not eligible for English education under Bill 101 are using a loophole whereby they go to private English school for a couple of years (winning eligibility) and then transfer to the public English system.
Mr. Lisée and the PQ are desperate to plug this avenue of escape and he rages on and on against the humiliating insult.
But the reality is that the number of students taking advantage is minuscule.
Plugging the loophole won't change a fig, the families have already made the decision to assimilate to the English side of the language equation and as the old saying goes, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink"......
While a couple of hundred students a year avail themselves of the loophole to gain access to an English education, over 10,000 students who ARE eligible for English schooling, voluntarily choose a French language educational path.
But this fact of course, is never mentioned.
Then Mr. Lisée explains to francophones that English instruction in the early years is hurtful to the development of French language skills, this without any scientific facts at all to back up his claim.
Another banal stupidity, oft repeated by Mr. Lisée, is when tells everyone not to worry, Quebecers are the most bilingual of all Canadians, a shamelessly stupid statement which shall be the subject of another post.
So let our community wake up, these radical Peequistes are not our friends and never will be.
They seek to dominate and subdue our community because they view English as an opposing force and never forget that they hold us responsible for holding up their sovereignty dream.
No matter how polite, no matter how seemingly cooperative and sympathetic, we must remember that Mr. Lisée and the Pq are our Devil.
Perhaps we need to take heed of Father Merrin's advice...
There is a disconnect here on your part, Mr. Editor.
ReplyDeleteJean-Francoise Lisee is the devil incarnate, according to you, but Justin Trudeau is the Second Coming.
Yet when it comes to Bill 101, the two really aren't that far apart. And let's face it, Bill 101 is pretty much all anglophones really care about when it comes to language.
So why the strong difference of opinion between the two of them? Simply doesn't make sense.
For myself, I think Justin Trudeau is 10 times the danger that Lisee represents.
Justin Trudeau toes the line much like Charest did for 9 years. Lisée employs hate speech and talks about “corrective measures“ to deal with the decline of french on the island of Montreal. At worst Justin is a savvy, opportunistic politician. Lisée, well what DOES he mean when he says “corrective measures“? Anglo taxes? Subsidized french housing? Deportation? Guillotines? Death camps?
DeleteHe‘s a dangerous and hateful fuck. Editor compares him to Mario Beaulieu, which is apt, but I‘ve also said he‘s Pierre Curzi with polish and education.
On a scale of 0 to 100 of the horrible scale, Bill 101 is about a 90.
DeleteWhat Lisee wants to do in addition to Bill 101 rates about a 95.
But Bill 101 itself rates a 90. Well, Justin and Charest are right there at the 90 mark, which is not that far off from 95.
That's why I think there is an irrational disconnect for the Editor's praise of Justin and total demonization of Lisee. The guy that's supposedly on our side is the bigger because he is so close in rating to the alleged bad guy. He shouldn't be that close. He should be at zero.
FROM ED BROWN
DeleteTalk about irrational, Tony. Bill 101 as it is, is perhaps a 10% annoyance in our lives. When I read the MAXI flyer items are smaller in English but it makes no difference I still get everything I need. It's what Lisee and others want to do with 101 that is creating hatred and violence between the French and English. You make up ridiculous figures to make your case but I think anyone who buys that can't see the forest for the trees. You sound like a car salesman trying to sell a worn out jalopy hoping the customer won't stop to think about the cost. Ed
Ed, have you ever read Bill 101. There's a whole lot more in there than just signs.
DeleteI have to agree with Tony Kondaks after checking out the Oct 25th article in the Victoria Times Colonist regarding Justin Trudeau and his views on the pre-election position of Bill 101. Trudeau Jr. fully and heartily endorses it believing it doesn't require anymore fortification of the already existing strictures. As the article states, he therefore is going against his father's non-support of separatism and strict language legislation. In spite of what the article indicates, Trudeau the Daddy didn't life a finger to stop Bill 22 enacted by Bourassa's PLQ or the more stringent Bill 101. See the first part of the Angryphone documentary. It explains Daddy Trudeau could have vetoed BOTH laws, but chose not to. I think each version of Trudeaus from Daddy on down will come up with increasingly convoluted views. Jr. on the one hand says changes are not necessary, but he support it in his current form. The Anglophone doesn't accept it at all, but those who have chosen to stay simply live with it.
ReplyDeleteThe one thing that gives that documentary credibility is the fact [former PQ cabinet minister and a one-time supporter of endless referendums until obtaining a "yes" majority vote] has done a 180 degree turn on the whole thing. Daddy Trudeau, the former MP for the predominantly English speaking constituency of Mount Royal, told his constituents not to come to him to fight their battles. Interesting how the M.P. is supposed to represent the wishes of his constituents instead turned his back on those who elected him. Sadly, like endless votes for the PLQ by the same category of constituents, there is no motivation to fight for them when the votes come in regardless of the politician's will or practice.
It is this indifference coupled with the fact my grandparents who immigrated into Quebec made positive contributions to their communities only to have the good they did completely forgotten. Talk about ingratitude!
The former PQ cabinet minister turned federalist mentioned above was Richard Le Hir. He was born in France. Speaks a pretty good English, too.
DeleteFor bill 22 neither did the supreme court. During the 1982 constitutional repatriation, the other premiers and political parties could have (federal) could have come to aid the Quebec minorities by making their signing contingency of equality of minority rights across the provincial lines but they didn't. Trudeau did not different then any other parties they saw the demographics for vote potential and decided not to take the battle on and let the supreme court deal with it.
DeleteIn the end it will be up to the minorities in Quebec to take action in their own hands regardless of political party. Movement should be across and or beyond party lines. For example the municipalities, boroughs of Montreal, Pontiac, Gatineau, Hudson, St Lazare the Lower North Shore etc... just have a referendum where they ask for the creation of a new province and start the ball rolling. At least it will gather media attention and the minorities would have to be heard.
Even all these incidents like with STM is showing one positive, the minorities are becoming less likely to take things like Parle francais, on est Quebec... Even the likes of the PQ are taking notice. They didn't expect push back.
Yes, I would love to see the ball rolling on leaving this dreadful place behind and partition this province. If enough people start to fight back against these language bigots, we may be able to get a grass root movement going to fight for bilingualism in the partition areas. Even if we had a vote on bilingualism, rather than french only, in the 75 electoral districts, that would be a step in the right direction.
DeleteWell Cutie,
DeleteIf there was a partition it wouldn't be based on the Federal electoral districts but based probably on the smallest electoral districts of any municipalities, like a ward.
Jarry - Why do you say that? This is a country - Canada. Why would we not use Federal electoral districts? If we went ward by ward that would really be a checkerboard effect and I don't see the reasoning behind it.
DeleteYou will have people on both sides that would want to be in the new province and those that don't. In Montreal some of the electoral ridings that are mostly pro Seppie that would take some minority dominated areas because they are in the same federal seat and vice versa. I think local wards would satisfy the largest possible amount of people.
DeleteI think that would be very, very difficult to declare a winner - Canadian or non-Canadian - that's what we have to aim for to put an end to this stalemate. Canadian will be a new bilingual province - non-Canadian, you leave for a new country, no longer affiliated with Canada in any way. The areas that remain in Canada will be large enough to form the new province.
DeleteI think a little more background information might be in order here. Jack Jedwab, the Executive Director of the Montreal-based Association for Canadian Studies (following his cooperation with L’Actualité’s hatchet job earlier this year), first wrote an open letter to JF Lisée in the Montreal Gazette, to which Lisée replied in a controversial open letter.
ReplyDeleteOpinion: Jean-François Lisée, ‘put yourself in the place of an anglophone’
Jean-François Lisée: My language plan - shoe sharing
The new PQ Minister responsible for anglos [WHAT???] says he has a plan to alleviate the 'double insecurity' of Quebecers on the language front…
To those who might be wondering about why Lisée's response might be considered controversial, here are some of the replies to his open letter:
DeleteJean-François Lisée makes two points in his letter that I find difficult to reconcile. He reassures us that remedial measures would be in order, if the proportion of people in Montreal who actually live in English were to drop. Yet his desired benchmark for ensuring the security of the French language on the island would be a linguistic blend of approximately 85 per cent French and 15 per cent English speakers. How would this work? There seems to be an underlying expectation that non-francophones will increasingly opt to live and breathe in French. As soon as we learn to share their concern for the collective future of French, all of our problems will be solved. M. Lisée may sincerely believe that he is trying to put himself in our shoes; but what if the shoe simply does not fit?
Peter Mann
Hampstead
What Jean-François Lisée overlooks is the continual net migration of anglophones out of Quebec, for which there is no equivalent, certainly not proportionately, among francophones. Therefore a higher proportion of allophones integrating into the anglophone community, relative to this community’s size in the Quebec population, can be seen as countering this anglophone out migration, thus keeping communities in balance. To his credit, Lisée recognizes the importance of countering the migration of francophones from the island of Montreal, but he does not mention the migration of anglophones out of Quebec.
Robert Hajaly
Montreal
Jean-François Lisée’s article was pretty good, and thanks to Jack Jedwab for making the first step in bridging the gap between English and French. I’m an anglophone. No one knows more than me about struggling in a French society. My mom is French, I have a French wife, I’m in the service industry — so speaking French is very important; I get that. What Mr. Lisée really needs to do is to spend time with someone like me. We, the English-speaking in Quebec, don’t make a big fuss about language here, but the Société Saint-Jean Baptiste makes the biggest stink of all. Do we as English in Quebec do the same thing as the SSJB? Know why? Because we are not like that. Think about that for a sec, and get back to me.
Chris Locke
Pointe-Claire
In his piece on “shoe sharing,” Jean-François Lisée may have inadvertently raised some questions — not so much about language and cultural identity, but about economics and sociopolitical issues. I have to commend Mr. Lisée on his command of English. There are many native English speakers who could not express themselves so thoughtfully. His proficiency in both English and French has no doubt helped elevate him to the esteemed position that he holds today. I am sure many francophone Quebecers, and several anglophones, would love the opportunity to walk in his shoes, to benefit from education that he himself has reaped such rewards from, an education his government would deny to his fellow francophone Quebecers. If only we could wear your shoes for a day, sir. Many of us would like to know what Italian leather feels like.
Howard Zinman
Montreal
Concerning Jean-François Lisée’s recent comments on the geography of Montreal, does geography really make an island? Lest we forget, the aboriginal people (namely the St. Lawrence Iroquois and Algonquin peoples) first inhabited this geographic region. The living, breathing, vibrant place we know as the island of Montreal (formerly Hochelaga) had its start long before Jacques Cartier arrived looking for a route through America to the Orient. So yes, we are agreed, “we” aboriginal people inhabited it, too! Michael Loft
Kahnawake
So Jean-François Lisée wants to share my shoes. Let’s talk about the “critical mass” of anglophones in Gaspesia, the Townships, Quebec City and other regions that used to have a vibrant English presence with deep historical roots. Nationalism has successfully wiped out most of those communities. The systematic elimination of services and possibilities for employment for English speakers in the regions, usually under PQ governments, has successfully wiped out any English presence in most of the province. Alan Strand
DeleteLachine
Double insecurity, upon close examination, excludes allophones. We are neither French nor English.
My memory drifts back to 1954. I was a sophomore at McGill seeking summer employment. After many unanswered applications, I finally secured an interview at a large company. To my surprise and delight I was hired, at a salary of $50 per week. As I was leaving, the interviewer said, “Have a good day Miss Buchan.” A small error — my surname is Buchak. At that time, English was the langue du jour. As a child of Ukrainian Greek Orthodox immigrant parents, I was denied entrance to a French school several blocks away because I was not a Catholic. Nesbitt School, many blocks away, became my elementary school. Thus my entire education was received in English, my second language. I wear neither an anglo nor a franco shoe. Where do I find a well-fitting allo shoe? Neither anglo nor franco fit.
Roxanne Buchak Whitehead
Town of Mount Royal
...you mean Doktor Lisée-Mengele. You should read some books about Dr. Josef Mengele: very calm, charismatic, with a very steady voice, always well-dressed, well-shaved, impeccable manners, extremely kind with his victims, always ready with the "best" solution.
DeleteNothing else to say other than the war between us and them is declared...
WA! You read my mind. As I was reading the editors post it occurred to me that Lisée's approach had something in common with the Angel of Death. Maybe you can't have a proper fascist party without one. Admittedly, it's a little harsh, but it's still the early days.
DeleteFROM ED BROWN
ReplyDeleteAs usual, Tony and Sauga spout their intense dislike of Justin Trudeau. What ever happened to fair play?
Give the man a chance and for God's sake stop laying the sins of the father on him. That is so unfair, it's sickening. You two might hate him but apparently you're the only ones.
Polls say Justin could win a majority right now if there was an election. Ed
Ed, as I stated in the previous blog, I'm stating my opinion. From whom do you think Justin learned most about politics? Who was his mentor growing up? Who does Justin himself look and act like?
DeleteHere's a little story: In May 1979 I traveled with two buddies around North America. I just finished my freshman year at university. About midway through our travels, we found ourselves a reasonably priced motel in Hollywood right across the street from CBS Television City, checked in, then crossed Hollywood Blvd. to go to TV City. There was a farmers' market on the parking lot, so we strolled through it, found a vendor selling Mexican eats so we resolved what to do for lunch that day.
While having our lunch, some scout from TV City approached us asking if we'd take part in what is known as a viewer session. He explained it's an opportunity to watch a 30-minute sitcom pilot and judge it. We agreed to do it. In a small studio, a number of us are gathered to watch the pilot. We're given a green button to push and a red one. As we're watching, we push the red button if we don't like what we're seeing and a green one to push when we do. We each got a CBS souvenir pen for our efforts. Not a Bic, but not a Waterman either! It was an interesting experience. BTW, the pilot aired, but the show was never picked up.
Afterward, we wanted to see if there were any tapings going on. The only thing being taped at that time was the now former successful talk show, The Mike Douglas Show. By 1979, it was nearing the end of its run going back to the mid-60s. Anyway, it turns out the main guest of the day was none other than Margaret Trudeau. She had just released an autobiography called Beyond Reason and was doing the talk show circuit to promote it.
Anyway, the taping starts, the guest host was Joyce Dewitt, best known for her role as one of the two girls on the former sitcom Three's Company. The first guest to come on was former singer Low Rawls. Finally, Margaret comes out. I watched the taping when it was aired in mid-July with my mom and brother. The latter described her entrance as that of Clarabel the Clown from the former Howdy Doody Show for kids in the 50s and 60s.. He wasn't far off. She was a major, major, major embarrassment! She was slurring a bit while talking thus suggesting she was either drinking or on something illicit right before the show. I was seething in the audience as each time words came out of her mouth they were irrelevant and embarrassing.
They taped about two hours and then edited it back to 90 minutes. Damn good thing they did, because several times during the taping, she was interrupting Lou Rawls while he was talking, and several times during the taping, Rawls abrasively would say "You're talking, Margaret!" She was really testing his limits let alone mine...and Mike's too, I'm sure. Lou's disgust of her and comments never made it to air...thankfully!
Douglas's run ended in 1982. Near the end of his run, he released a book about the show. I never read it, but on the local Pulse News someone reviewed the book stating who some of his favourite guests were, and singled out the worst guest he ever had on was none other than Margaret Trudeau. Justin would have been seven years old when this taping occurred. Since most of her fame was eclipsed by her husband's political profile, Maggie used sensationalism to promote herself (very poorly, mind you), and Justin carries 23 of her chromosomes as well as 23 of his father's in his DNA. Justin does a much better job at self-promotion, but definitely is a sensationalist himself to ensure he gets his generous share of the camera's eye and reporter's ear.
Finally Ed, to quote the late Paul Harvey, famous longtime U.S. TV and radio commentator: "...and THAT...is the rest of the story."
Give him a chance? Shouldn't he do something to deserve the chance first, other than being born in the right home? What are his achievements so far? And, no, charity boxing matches do not count as social or political achievements: we might as well have Jacques Villeneuve! His contribution to the world equals that of my children, age 4 and 8, and he wants to run a country!? And you endorse him? Are you prepared to have the biggest joke in international politics since Silvio Berlusconi as your Prime Minister? Why not go for Mayor Quimby from the Simpson? He's just as fictitious a character, but he has more real life experience!
DeleteGot to agree with TQP and Sauga..what the heck has Justin Trudeau done in his life to deserve the attention he is getting..??? He only has the attention because of his last name which is pathetic. Are we running a monarchy in this country??
DeleteThis is another glaring example of glitz and glamor over substance..it shows a lot of insight into how most Canadians vote..their reasons are utterly pathetic and incredibly superficial.
Sorry Ed but he has a heck of a lot to prove before I would even consider him worthy of leading this country. In fact I think its debatable whether or not he is even worthy to be an MP. Then again there are many incompetent MPs in this county.
Well in Montreal most of us have no choice but have to give Justin a chance since he will be winning the Liberal leadership. I sure ain't going to give Harper a second chance. AS for Uncle Toms' NDP we all know a vote for the NDP is a vote for bloc quebecois light. So I will be voting for the least damaging choice to my interests.
DeleteFROM ED BROWN
DeleteQuebec partition and complicated; Out comes the doubting Toms. I can't help wondering if you guys are the same person. Partition posts
and after comes complicated agreeing with him. You ask what makes him eligible to be PM. Read the editor's post. he doesn't make things up. You both say he has to do something to prove himself.Like what! If he became PM and led the country to economic success, would it be enough for you guys. But how does he get there if you flatten him before he has a chance to prove something. Polls show he has the trust of the country. Sometimes you have to say, "when every else is disagreeing with me, perhaps it's me that's wrong." Ed
Ed - How about some real experience like running a business? Listen to this from his bio..sounds like he has spent a few years teaching rich kids at at an elistist school in BC and then more studies at university..where is the real world experience???
DeleteSounds like he got tired of studying and realized he could get a better gig by using his famous last name. Sorry but he sounds like a real lightweight. One good thing about him is that he is not a lawyer..that is a bonus in my books. But otherwise not sure how he has any real abilities to run a country.
Trudeau has a Bachelor of Arts degree in literature from McGill University and a Bachelor of Education degree from the University of British Columbia. After graduation, he worked as a social studies and French teacher at West Point Grey Academy and Sir Winston Churchill Secondary School in Vancouver, British Columbia.[10] From 2002 to 2004, he studied engineering at the Université de Montréal.[11] He also started a Master of Arts degree in Environmental Geography at McGill University before suspending his program to seek public office.[12]
His father was horrible in terms of fiscal management. Justins background as an art and education major is not encouraging..pretty easy degrees really..no real intelligence needed there. Plus again someone who never had to worry about money..not typically know as the best fiscal managers. IMO we need someone who can balance the books..number one requirement in my book..its long overdue for Canada and especially Quebec to start paying its bills.
Trudeau was still better fiscally then Mulroney and maybe even Harper if we measure the GDP to debt ratio by years governed by each.
DeleteMulroney was pretty bad but the economy was pretty weak then and he inherited a huge debt from Trudeau which combined with high interest rates didnt help..but Mulroney was no better. Harper has not been great either. As the debt grows it is becoming more and more critical that we have someone who can balance the books..interest rates are also as low as they ever will be..hence the interest charges will only increase..
DeleteComplicated, there were 2 Oil shocks one in the mid 70s and one that peaked in 1982. Trudeau had to deal with them. Government costs skyrocket even more then the oil shock that we had recently that peaked in 2009. Yet he did a better job on average on the GDP to debt ratio then Mulroney and even Harper so far. I use to believe in the Conservative spin doctors about Trudeau being solely responsible for ruining Canadas finances until I did some digging into Data myself.
DeleteMulroney would have been able to tame the deficit from 1984 to at least 1990 the economy was very strong. Considering there was no oil shock. The real estate collapse in Canada occurred after 1990. So Mulroney had less of an excuse. Under Trudeau the debt to GDP ratio was still better. Harper did inherited a surplus in 2008 but to win the next election his government couldn't help but spend to get a full majority. So they cut the GST and even cut immigration fees to get the immigrant vote. Lets see what happens to real estate. They allowed the 40 year mortgage early in their mandate and now are trying to create a soft landing by capping terms initially from 40 to 35, then 35 to 30 and now from 30 to 25. Time will tell if the brakes will fail or not but if there is a real estate collapse it will be a disaster on the debt and deficit.
Jarry, what you say about Pierre Elliot Trudeau may be true, but we are not talking about him now. Justin is a different person, with hardly any experience of organising a piss-up in a brewery: that's the person I'm judging inadequate, not his dad.
DeleteED, you could make a lot more money by being the poster boy for everything the Franco's hate for good reason: you claim to be bilingual when you admit you still translate from French, you speak of neolatin languages like French as if they are (and I quote) "decadent" languages, you demand that anyone, even those who don't know you and don't know you're an anglophone address you in English, and now you endorse this phoney saying "everyone deserves a chance"...?! WTF! Yes:
If he became PM and led the country to economic success
it would be enough, but he is not, nor has he ever been PM, has spent about one and a half year as an MP and has not achieved anything of note that compares favourably with the average Canadian graduate. How on earth you believe that, by virtue of his surname, he'd be all that you dream of, beats the hell out of me. Please, do offer some arguments as to why he'd be a good Prime Minister, other than the odd statement (possible not one that he contradicted before or after) and I'll be all ears. He's no better suited than Justin Bieber, and less likely to carry as many votes, which is just as well because, based on his spectacular lack of experience he's more likely to be more like another George W Bush (funny that he also was the inadequate son of another man who held the top job, albeit in a different - but not that much - country).
And, if you had read the near fist-fight I had on previous threads with complicated, even you could figure out that we are not the same person (or, at least, you would if you bothered pulling your head out of your you know what).
I hope S.R. is paying you well for your contribution.
Well Justin doesn't need more experience if he has a team to take on the different portfolios. Also all the other party leaders underestimate him. He probably will suprise them all. Also would you Trust Uncle Toms led NDP to run the country over a liberal government led by Justin.
DeleteI deliberately didn't mention Harper as a choice because of things pointed out in the 2 links below. Under Harper alot of things that are detrimental to Canadians are passed under the radar.
http://www.canada.com/Permits+miners+from+China+examined+Ottawa/7477227/story.html
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/opinion/Canada+China+investment+protection+racket/7477983/story.html
There are still Liberals around from Martin era and they can guide and take on the different tasks. For example Chretien had Paul Martin, Manley, Ralph Goodale. So its not like a Liberal government will be a disaster. I doubt the can do worst then Harper.
Well I will say that Justin in the end may not be any worse than a lot of other politicians we have seen and that is not meant in a complimentary fashion. So many of our politicians are self centred, of dubious morals and often somewhat corrupt..its downright depressing to be honest. There isnt anyone right now in politics that looks appealing in my opinion. We dont seem to be attracting the right type of people..we have way too many smooth talking lawyers..career politicians..economists. I would love to see a lot more small businessman, farmers, scientists, teachers, etc.
DeleteWe dont seem to have any real leaders anymore who are willing to make the right yet politically difficult decisions..ie reducing our debt.
TQP and I the same person..wow thats a good one. We had a rather nasty argument a few weeks ago. I was pleasantly surprised that I could also strongly agree with him. Even Ed I can agree with you once in awhile but less often.
What I have noticed is that people are always looking for a saviour and are almost always disappointed. Its very rare that one person can come in and really change the system. The system does not work anymore..we need a new type of democracy..a proportional system which reflects the true wishes of voters not some archaic relic from 19th century england.
Please.
Delete"Let me say very clearly that I support Bill 101," Trudeau said Thursday.
"It is a reality that helps Quebec remain mainly French in a bilingual country. If we want Canada to remain bilingual — and I want it — we need to understand that Quebec must remain primarily francophone."
Justin Trudeau supports the racist, bigoted, xenophobic bill 101. Yes he supports a French only Kebec (proper native spelling) and forced french “bilingualism” all over the country, nice eh? Just like a daddy a French first, Kebec first bigot, hypocrite, from the province of the Qlue Qlux Qlan. Get back to the tax and spend, have not, high debt, socialist province of Kebec and shut up you parasite Trudeau, yes Kebec where you fit right in.
Why would I want to give Justin a chance when he supports human rights violations?
DeleteNot only should that disqualify him from being Prime Minister, it should disqualify him from being Liberal leader AND a Member of Parliament.
I don't like segregationists and I won't support them. If you like 'em, you vote for 'em.
Ed, reading back what I wrote at 9.19, I do apologise for the ad-hominem attacks. I stand by my argument, though, so: if you want to discuss the merits (or lack thereof) of the subject of the day, you're welcome. I would prefer it, though, if you dropped the name calling (Toms? As in Uncle Tom?) and the inference of multiple online personalities, which is, frankly, ludicrous.
DeleteP.S. For the record, should you consider calling me an Uncle Tom again: it was Italians like yours truly (who wasn't around at the time, but members of my family were) who provided the only serious opposition to Bill 22, which started the slippery slope to the situation of today. I can't and won't take credit for that, but I am very much sharing the same sentiment. However, what I will not stand for is the tribalism of English=Good, French=Bad, nor the other way around. I want equal rights for anglophones in Montreal, I have my ideas about it and I dislike the politics of PQ. I am not here just to "stick it to the French" as that would just undermine all that I'm hoping to achieve.
Not only were the Italians the ones who stood up against Bill 22 in St. Leonard, the ironic thing is that, of all non-francophone, non-anglophone ethnic groups in Quebec, the Italians had the highest percentage that actually attended French public schools. And this was voluntary. So if anyone was justified in protesting a law that required immigrants to go to French schools, it was the Italians.
DeleteDo these feddie and seppie politicos think being bilingual is speaking English and French? What about people that speak French and Spanish? English and Arabic? Dutch and Portuguese? Are they bilingual?
ReplyDeleteWhat's your point Mr. Marco?
DeleteI see it q bit differently... I see Lisée as just your typical separatist just saying what most are thinking. I see him as the one everyone should be adding to their Facebook, messaging & educating !
ReplyDeleteIf you can write to him in French, that will have even more impact.
Is it a hopeless cause? We pay him. I think not. Stand up for your rights. At least be heard.
With much due respect to the writer of this blog, whom I appreciate a lot.
Editor,
ReplyDeleteThank you for writing such a fine piece.
I'm just sorry it'll be lost on those who have the powers to remedy this situation.
For the readers of this blog who haven't yet discovered this book: http://bit.ly/SwvSc8
READ IT!
Like Editor pointed out, you draw a lot more flies with Lisee-brand honey than Beaulieu-brand vinegar and what I fear most...
...as much as I loathe and despise Marois...I'd much rather have her in power than Lisee.
And I'm willing to bet anyone on this blog that Lisee is setting the stage to usurp the old bag first chance he gets.
I know Drainville is fixing for the job, but melo-dramatic politicians of his ilk never go far.
How I pray the PLC and the CAQ regroup quickly and call for an election before Lisee takes over the PQ.
Evil, you may be right about Lisée's coup d'état, and he is a crafty S.O.B., but Marois is very good at watching her own back. She has already fought off others who tried to usurp and dethrone her, and she fights to the death. Did a great number on Gilles Duceppe!
DeleteMan did she ever wipe Duceppe out. Wonder what she's got on Lisee?
DeleteLets hope the rumours start about J F lisee wanting to turf Marois. All one needs is to conduct a poll and get it into one of newspapers. Marois is pretty tough and will not take chances and get any dirt she has on Lisee out in the media pretty quick. Would love to see an internal PQ Royal Rumble.
DeleteTo Anonymous = Gosh I wish you were right and that it would do some good to try and reason with any member of the PQ, but I feel that you are wasting your valuable time trying to do that. I suggest you put the pressure on the opposition Liberals and the CAQ to make sure that they oppose any changes to Bill 101 and the letters, Facebook, e-mails go to them. As the PQ are a minority they cannot act without consent of the opposition parties and that's where we have the best chance of stopping them. If you don't have a Liberal MNA, write to one or all of the people running for the leadership of the liberals. That's what I've been doing but then again I have a Liberal MNA which helps (I hope).
ReplyDeleteReally, Cutie? Another Hail Mary? Your Liberal MNA will do sweet f-all, biding his/her time until that opportunity to drive a knife into Marois's back (likely at budget time) and another half billion dollar election is called.
DeleteIf any anti-minority legislation is passed in the interim (it shouldn't, but in Quebec anything is possible), it's not as if it will be reversed subsequently. Charest made it clear when he inherited the premier's chair he would not change a comma of Bill 101 else be seen as an Anglophone sympathizer. Like with a ratchet screw driver, the screws only turn one way - tighter!
"And so he comes a courting, visiting our English school boards to 'discuss' the linguistic situation with officials, who fall over themselves, giddy with excitement to explain to a 'sympathetic' Peequist, the tribulations of falling enrolment"
ReplyDeleteI agree with Editor. This was pitiful. I was watching it on the news and thinking: what are these school officials doing? Why are they meeting with this guy, humoring him, indulging him, when it's obvious that the guy is just toying with them.
Even if you finally push yourself to meet him (he is a govt official after all, some may argue), why the niceties? Why the patting on the back? Why this friendly atmosphere?
"...why the niceties? Why the patting on the back? Why this friendly atmosphere?"
DeleteNous montrons une ouverture et vous doutez toujours de nos intentions?Pourquoi?Vous croyez réellement que nous vous voulons du mal n'est-ce pas?Pourtant nous ne recherchons que la paix et l'harmonie.Pourquoi ne pas nous tendre la main?
The niceties you are talking about, Adski, usually are the mask for the forthcoming evil. And Lisée with his suspiciously friendly behaviour is ready to attack...But he ignores to be surrounded by millions of English-speakers...oops
DeleteI was talking about the niceties coming from the anglo administrators. They were playing along the friendly lines. They fell for it.
DeleteThey, Anglos, basically landed in his hands on a silver plate...
DeleteI don't believe that the anglo administrators fell for anything - they too are playing the political game but know that it's useless to deal with these people. They couldn't afford to do it publicly but they know.
Delete"they too are playing the political game but know that it's useless to deal with these people"
DeleteI am not so sure that they knew that it was useless, judging by how warmly they seem to have received Lisee (denial maybe?). I don't want to judge these administrators too harshly, I do realize that they were put in a very difficult position. But I do think that you can meet with a hostile government representative on courteous and professional terms, yet still refrain from acting overly friendly. You know what the guy you're meeting is all about, so face him for what he is, not for what you'd like him to be.
As there is no need to rising so some hot-headed militant level, and there is no point stooping to overly conciliatory one either. Some middle ground is there, it's just a matter of finding it.
FROM ED BROWN
ReplyDeleteSauga, Margaret Trudeau was an embarrassment to Canada, her husband and her children. When she said that meeting fourteen year old Kurt Russel made her almost come in her pants, how do you suppose her boys felt about their Mother talking like a pedophile. She was disgusting. I certainly won't hold that against Justin. he was a victim of her porn. Ed
We shouldn't visit the sins of the Father -- or Mother -- against the child.
DeleteHowever, Justin is and has been riding the coattails of his father's name. So, at least as far as his father is concerned, his father's record is, to a degree, fair game for Justin. Especially if Justin embraces his father's policies, such as official bilingualism.
But I don't know enough about Justin's policy stands, except for his stand on Bill 101...and that's enough for me to dismiss him completely.
The few other things I know about him don't encourage me, either, such as his "piece of shit" outburst in Parliament.
I do like the fact that he stated what his criteria for considering becoming a separatist were (Harper getting rid of Gay Marriage and abortion). I like it because I, too, have my redline as regards under what conditions I will abandon Canada. Justin has his redline and I have mine. Nice to see that Justin's love of Canada is so conditional.
More appropriately, I think he should be treated like his own person: neither hold his mother's faux pas against him, nor pin his father's success on him as if he had anything to do with it. Judge him on his own merit, for good or bad.
DeleteMr Sauga = I don't think anyone will get rid of Bill 101 - I'm talking about passing legislation to expand it. Only the opposition parties will be able to stop that from happening and if they do it to bid their time until the next election, that's OK with me.
ReplyDeleteBTW doing something concrete, like writing letters, is better than sitting on our duffs doing nothing but bitching on this blog. That will get us absolutely nowhere. No we are not assured that anything can or will be done to change the mindset in this province, but at least I can lay my head down at night and think I TRIED to do something.
ReplyDeleteListen guys, we have to take the best of the worst and Lisee is the worst we could possibly imagine - we have to fight this bigot as best we can and we can only do this by publicly denouncing him every chance we get. Letters to the editor of your paper, e-mails to anyone you can think of, as soon as he steps out of line. Waiting to hear what the witch says this afternoon in her opening speech about Bill 101 and that's when we have to start to take action - and adski - glad to see you back - and I don't mean by arming ourselves. Jump all over her, I'm sure, outlandish propositions against the anglos and allos in this province. We pay the witch's salary also - no taxation without representation.
ReplyDeleteOK - In my mailbox today - IKEA Flyer and Eureka Magazine full of coupons - both entirely in French. Did not realize until lately how many there are. Off went two e-mails.
ReplyDeleteFROM ED BROWN
ReplyDeleteTrudeau affiliation with his Father reminds me of mine. During WWII I was a small boy but have a vivid recollection of the events. My father read the Montreal Star (an honest newwpaper) listened to the CBC news on the radio. At the supper table he would discuss these things with my Mother or my uncles when they were on leave. I knew he was doing it for my benefit and I asked a lot of Questions. Ed
Yes, but what job did your father do and how good are/were you at the same job? I watched the news and discussed them with my dad too, but he was a naval officer and I'm an engineer: I doubt I could ever do his job, and I doubt he could do mine - not without nearly 20 years of training.
DeleteFROM ED BROWN
DeleteQ Part, you miss the point. What I learned listening to my father I still remember. I remember what worked good and what went bad. I learned to think outside the box at an early age. i raised my family the same way I learned from my father with much success. My kids today are retiring wealthy in B.C. If yyou have the basics you can be your own man. Ed
Oh, that Justin learned SO much at the feet of Father Pierre. Why, they vacationed in Caribbean islands with mass-murdering, human-rights violating, anti-democratic,totalitarian dictators, whom they consider a close, dear family friend.
DeleteMuch to learn from dear, old Pappy.
Why, Pappy wrote a book with his dear friend Jacques Hebert when they were kids when they made a little trip to Communist China. It coincided with the single greatest genocide/holocaust in the history of mankind. Something called "The Great Leap Forward", perpetrated by history's greatest mass-murderer, Mao Zedong (who make Hitler look like a piker by comparison). Between 30-80 million Chinese peasants died while Trudeau and Hebert feasted their way across China, recording their trip in their book "Two Innocents in Red China".
I call the book "While on his way to a feast, Pierre Trudeau trips over 80 million dead Chinese peasants."
In addition to his support of Bill 101, the lessons Justin learned at the feet of his Pappy are yet one more reason I weep for Canada if this clown were to become leader of the Liberal party.
I think it's you who's missing the point: raising a family is something that more or less everyone ends up doing sooner or later and, yes, we end up doing what our parents did (or the exact opposite, but deliberately, if we disagreed with their methods). Running a country is not something that everyone can do and most certainly not something everybody does. It's a job and it requires a set of skills: making allies, creating consensus, having a vision and, most of all, understanding how the economy and the machinery of the state works. I have no doubt your kids have been successful thanks to your teachings, but did they do the same job? Did they use the same skills? It is a myth that being a politician is a job for well-meaning amateurs, let alone being Prime Minister. Justin Trudeau may well have learned the values of his dad and inherited some of his supposed charm, but his training seems lacking to the point of being non-existent. How many years of cock-ups are you willing to put up with while he's training on the job? Right now he's just another Ignatieff with bigger hair, smaller intellect (whatever you may say about Ignatieff, he wasn't dumb, just not cut out for the job) and an even greater sense of entitlement. Or, if you prefer, another Tony Blair: a face without content (whose tenure in government has screwed up a country beyond recognition).
DeleteTony
DeleteWell its not like Trudeau and hebert would have been shown the killing fields. Second for all we know Trudeau having links to commie regimes may have enabled easier espionage for the west from Canadian diplomatic sources. Its not like Trudeau pulled out of NATO, or stopped Canadian firms from supplying the US and allied forces in South Vietnam, and indirectly Thailand, Cambodia, and Laos. Furthermore Canadian troops were sent to Vietnam along the International borders and the DMZ.
(International Commission of Control and Supervision Vietnam (ICCS) - Staffed by Canada, Hungary, Indonesia and Poland. Their role was to monitor the cease-fire in South Vietnam as per the Paris Peace Conference. Early 1973 to mid 1975, between 28 January 1973 and 31 July 1973. The 1,160 personnel of the commission were from Canada, Hungary, Indonesia and Poland and their role was to monitor the cease-fire in South Vietnam as per the Paris Peace Conference. The Commission arranged the release and exchange of more than 32,000 prisoners of war.
Canada contributed 240 Canadian Forces personnel and 50 officials from the Department of External Affairs. The ICCS operated until 30 April 1975, two years after the Canadians withdrew.)
Nixon was worst for making friends with Zedong while the US was supposedly allied to South Vietnam and the Chinese were allied with North Vietnam. Furthermore after that visit Nixon forced the South Vietnamese to sign a treaty at the Paris Peace talks that was a disadvantage for South Vietnam.
Furthermore after that visit Nixon forced the South Vietnamese to sign a treaty at the Paris Peace talks that was a disadvantage for South Vietnam.
DeleteMaking friends with Zedong might have shafted the South Vietnamese, but it was beneficial to the rest of the world. As per the Peace talks... well, the South lost the war: it goes with the territory (excuse the pun) that the conditions for the Peace will be to their disadvantage. The Marshall Plan was a unique event in history, the norm being: to the victor the spoils. Besides, the US was on the losing side this time, they hardly had any leverage, did they!
Trudeau billed himself in those days as a journalist. There are indications in the book that he, Trudeau at least knew from rumours that there was a famine going on while he was there of monumental proportions. No, it's not like his "minders" (communist hosts who controlled his whereabouts) would have brought him to the killing fields, as you say. However, there are portions of the book where Trudeau not only behaves as an apologist for the regime but goes out of his way to poo-poo those in the West for even suggesting that a holocaust was happening.
DeleteTrudeau didn't even make an effort to find out what was happening. Some journalist.
The book, in my opinion, borders on holocaust-denial, particularly when you consider that afterwards once the truth came out, Trudeau never went out of his way to admit his failings in the matter. At the very least, Trudeau shouldn't have gone to Cuba as he did, brazenly shouting out "Viva Fidel" in celebration of another mass-murdering Communist.
The famous New York Times columnist Walter Duranty in the '30s acted as an apologist for Joseph Stalin as 7-11 million Ukrainians were murdered by Stalin. And Duranty got the Pulitzer Prize for his coverage of the Soviet Union. For the past few decades, Ukrainian-Americans have been rallying to have the Pulitzer Committee, post-humously, rescind the Prize to Duranty.
Trudeau comes very close to being Canada's Walter Duranty.
@The Quebec Partition,
DeleteIt wasn't only South Vietnam that got the shaft but the 50 000 plus on that war memorial in Washington, DC the civilian population of South Vietnam, Laos and of course those who ended up being "ruled" by Mao Zedongs' buddy Pol Pot over in Cambodia. Well Nixon could have not pulled out and continued the war. At least made sure military and economic aid continued. After Nixon got impeached the US congress reduced the aid to South vietnam while China and the Soviet Union increased it.
Well if Nixon didn't make friends with Zedong in 1972 maybe instead of 70% of all the manufactured goods we buy, only 30% would have been made in China by now.
Forgot to include to obvious China and Soviet Union increased aid to North Vietnam.
DeleteAnyone who thinks or says that Bill 101 is good, necessary, that it will save something, in this case the French language ,culture, tradition, has no idea what is THE UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/. That is why Justin Trudeau is the Second Coming. M. Clifford Lincoln said “rights are rights are rights…” http://faculty.marianopolis.edu/c.belanger/quebechistory/docs/bill178/10-33.htm The people that got shafted the most with this bill were the WHITE FRENCH CANADIAN ROMAN CATHOLICS (no choice in education for there children) and the shafters were WHITE FRENCH CANADIAN ROMAN CATHOLICS.
ReplyDeleteWhy would Justin be the Second Coming when he supports Bill 101. I don't understand.
DeleteI'm a WHITE FRENCH CANADIAN ROMAN CATHOLICS and i'm proud of it!
ReplyDeleteYou are a proud member of the Qlue Qlux Qlan...well done.
DeleteIt's a very Anglo-Saxon thing to call oneself Roman Catholic. No Spanish, Portuguese, French, Italian or Romanian would ever call themselves that. Catholic is normally considered enough. I'm not so hot on the various splits in the Catholic Church, but I reckon it's the splinter groups that need the qualifier, not the mainstream. Looks like S.R. is anglicising by the minute!
DeleteI stand corrected about the Romanians... apparently they are part of one of the Eastern Catholic Churches. It never ceases to amaze me how easily can people divide themselves over such minutiae even when they are worshipping the same God. It's the equivalent to creating a different religion based on your shoe preference when going to Church! I hereby declare myself member of the:
DeleteLapsed Roman Catholic Attending Service Just to Meet Girls Until the I Turned Fifteen Church
Ooops! I had originally written "Until the age of fifteen", but I thought that sounded a bit creepy, unfortunately I did not finish the editing...
Delete"It's a very Anglo-Saxon thing to call oneself Roman Catholic."
DeleteSi vous aviez le sens de l'observation,vous auriez remarqué que c'est un copié-collé (copy/paste) du commentaire de "White African canadian"
I supposed I missed that one: you calling yourself French-Canadian... Glad to hear that you're proud of it, though :-P
DeleteAND SHAFTED BY YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT IDIOT
ReplyDeleteSorry Cutie, gotta dock you a point...you just fed the troll a digital poutine.
DeleteIt's bad enough that tomorrow he'll be getting free money in the mail via welfare check...don't give him anything else for free.
BTW, La Presse finally covered the metro incident:
http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/regional/montreal/201210/31/01-4588986-langue-bagarre-dans-le-metro.php
I tell you I really hate their spokeswoman:
"Marianne Rouette, porte-parole de la STM, n'a pas souhaité commenter l'incident et veut «laisser les gens faire leur travail». Elle a simplement indiqué qu'il y avait des versions contradictoires des faits."
Well, if you speak english in the metro I guess the STM employees can take whatever "corrective measures" towards you they want.
DeleteBecause it seems like none of these people are being punished.
Je trouve que l'anglaise qui a porté plainte contre notre agente de métro,n'a pas l'air très honnête.
Delete"Because it seems like none of these people are being punished."
DeleteNormal,ils ne font que respecter la loi,pourquoi seraient-ils punis au juste?
Il ne s'agit pas d'une cliente mais bien d'une usager du service de transport en commun,qui selon les dernières nouvelles,aurait refusé de se conformer aux règles et se serait montrée agressive envers l'agente en poste.Cette dernière tricotait calmement des chaussettes pour son petit-fils lorsque l'attaque a eu lieu.Je crois qu'il s'agit d'un cas de légitime défense.
DeleteResident Evil = You also have to deduct one from Yannick - ty
DeletePerhaps we should keep a running tally starting today. Results so far:
DeleteCutie003: -1 point
Yannick: -1 point
Slightly off-topic.
ReplyDeleteI have been assuming for a while that Imperatif-francais is some kind of representative of French-language hardliner movement. If my assumption is true, it is more reason not to trust those people and never to buy whatever statement they have, as they do not have the same logic, ethics and decency as we do.
Three weeks ago, Imperatif-francais issued a rebuttal against Stephen Jarilowsky's column. Note that they wrote:
Ce qui est mondial, Monsieur Jarislowsky, c’est la pluralité linguistique et la diversité culturelle.
Yesterday, they posted an article about the decline of French in Gatineau. There, they wrote:
Toute personne qui vit ou travaille au Québec est censée parler français, sinon elle doit l’apprendre. Tous et toutes, sans exception, doivent s’accommoder du fait qu’ "Au Québec, c’est en français que ça se passe!" Tout ce qui est en français au Québec s’adresse à tout le monde, le français y est la langue commune d’usage public.
So which one is it? Linguistic plurality or one dominant language?
Very good point. They are being incoherent.
Delete+1 Troy!
DeleteYannick,
DeleteAh, so when it is in North American context it should be "language diversity" while when it is internal of Quebec, everyone without exception should adhere to French only?
And no contradiction in that premise, right? Got it.
Le globish est à la diversité linguistique ce que sont les parasites pour les champs de blé.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure which is worse - Imperatif Francais or SJBS - both are very militant and cause problems all over the place - this time it's Gatineau - where we have never had these problems before, they are creating tension all over the damn place. Another reason to insist on a vote to make this a National Capital Region and make it bilingual. I've already published a letter in the paper to this end. Bring on a vote.
ReplyDeleteBring on the coalition
ReplyDeleteIt is a lot more democratic then, say a tyranical racist 31.9% governing like it has a mandate.
DeleteIsn‘t the point of minority fear that you may fall and get replaced by a coalition? PLQ and CAQ represent the nearly 60% who have jobs, aren‘t drooling racist bougons, and DON‘T want a referendum.
We need an out-and-out junta to oust the PQ, not a coalition.
DeleteYes, take power, but after that drag each and every member of the PQ (and QS for that matter), strip them naked, chain them to one another and parade them down the streets for all to see until you get to the harbor...
...and then put them on a boat and send them off to St.Pierre/Miquelon with a stern warning that should they ever return, they will be shipped to La Gulag Nord.
Notre première ministre a fait un excellent discours inaugural aujourd'hui.Je crois qu'elle a marqué plusieurs points concernant la culture,l'environnement et en annonçant officiellement le dépôt d'une nouvelle loi 101 améliorée.
DeleteFor starters, just so I understand this, the STM employee was knitting?? ON THE JOB??? WOW how do I get THAT JOB??
DeleteSecondly, I am sure many will agree, this city is going to the dogs, FAST! It’s become such an unpleasant place.
Thirdly, how is it that this SOB (sr) who contends he’ll walk out of a store if he is greeted en Anglais, spends countless hours on this blog .......READING IT.
GUESS THE JOKE IS ON YOU BOZO !
Pourquoi les anglos sont aussi agressif?Auraient-ils tous quelque chose de coincé dans l'anus?
DeleteAre you reading ENGLISH again? It must be improving, at least the reading part LOL and that gives us such satisfaction, cause it really doesn't matter how much venom you try to spread here, you have to swallow a huge wallop of ENGLISH for starters ! LOL
DeleteDon‘t bother talking to the Qu Qlux Qlan
DeletePerhaps we should keep a running tally starting today. Results so far:
ReplyDeleteCutie003: -1 point
Yannick: -1 point
Anectote: -1 point
I may rack up a lot of minus points ! lol but guess what, I will have a blast doing it! Tally away.
DeletePerhaps we should keep a running tally starting today. Results so far:
DeleteCutie003: -1 point
Yannick: -1 point
Anectote: -1 point
James Wolfe: -1 point
Marois disrespects our soldiers by stooping to using the poppy for her political reasons:
ReplyDeletehttp://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/546845_423818781004707_579338503_n.jpg
Am I missing something? What is the white cross supposed to represent? I would have thought she would have a blue poppy on. You're right, very disrespectful no matter what it means. Many french Canadians have died in battle for Canada from the first World War to present.
DeleteAnd another thing, the witch is a premier, not a prime minister - why do the separatists insist of giving the witch this undeserved title? She's no more a prime minister than any other premier in this country therefore no more power or special treatment. NO MORE POWER TO QUEBEC FOR ANY REASON! THEY ARE NOT SPECIAL NOR DO THEY DESERVE ANY MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PROVINCE JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE SOCIALIST ON THE ROC MONEY. CUT THEM OFF OF TRANSFER PAYMENTS, KICK THEM OUT AND LET'S PARTITION THIS DAMN PLACE.
DeleteJe crois que le café de Tim Horton est beaucoup trop fort pour cutie.
DeleteCutie: Re the moniker "Prime Minister": Quebec, in French, has been referring for decades to the Quebec premier with the term "Primier Ministre". My late grandmother turned 100 in 1992 and the nicest thing she received was a bronze plaque on wood from Robert Bourassa Prime Minister of Quebec. She got a paper letter mounted on cardboard from the PM and a crappy thing from the Queen, basically a photocopied letter stapled to a piece of stationery with the Queen's picture.
DeleteBTW, my grandmother passed away in 1994 at the age of 102 years three months.
That may be true - does not make it correct.
DeleteCutie, that's not a cross but a fleur-de-lys, implying that only Canadian soldiers from Quebec who died for our liberty are worth remembering.
DeleteAlso, in French, all leaders (both provincially and federally) are called prime ministers. Thus, you have the prime minister of Ontario, the prime minister of Alberta, etc... Besides, "prime" minister means "first" minister and "premier" also means "first", so it's all the same thing.
Thank you R.S. - It looks like a white cross on the poppy both on TV and on the link - anyway still disrespectful to the ROC soldiers who deserve recognition for their sacrifices. Also, did not realize that in french, all premiers are called "prime ministers" - would make more sense to call them "first" but, of course, this is quebec and they make no effort to separate the two roles like the rest of us.
DeleteIndeed... stay classy, Pauline!
DeleteSeveral years ago, the Royal Canadian Legion - the organization that produces the remembrance poppies - posted a guide how to wear it. One thing I remember was that it discouraged wearing of poppy with other accouterments than the long pin. It was in response of some people wearing it centered with Canadian flag pin.
DeleteThat wearing guide is now gone, for some reason I do not really know. However, my point is that the way Marois wears it is clearly out of the guidance.
On another, related note, I saw Tony Clements sitting in the House today wearing the British version of the poppy. The one with green leaf and stem. What gives?
FROM ED BROWN
ReplyDeletePartition, Yes I have to translate written French but I AM fully bilingual. I can carry any conversation fluently but if you think I should use French at home you are agreeing with Marois. If you think it's wrong to expect people to accept my English you are Marois. The trouble with you and complicated is your negativism.
There's another pol who came out of nowhere and was considered cocky with no business experience. His name was William Clinton. Due too the genius of the men he depended on like
Jimmie Carville and Paul Begala he was one of the best presidents economically.
Justin Trudeau will have the Paul Martin people to back and advise him. Ed
Ed, what makes you think Justin would get Paul Martin's people? I would have thought that he was in Jean Chretien's camp and, if this is correct, aren't Chretien and Martin at loggerheads? I am not privy to the in's and out's of the inner workings of the Liberal Party, but I would think that Justin The Segregationist would not invite Martin or his people into his inner circle.
DeleteEd, barking at the wrong tree again? First of all: bilingual people don't translate. You are bilingual when you can think in either language: you read this blog and think and argue in English, you listen to the "nouvelles" on the radio and think and argue in French. And reading is a hell of a lot easier than listening. I don't doubt you are a proficient speaker of French as a second language, but that's not bilingualism if everything you say, hear or read in French has to "pass through the English gates" before you can make sense of it.
DeleteSecond: nobody's telling you to speak French in your own home, I would appreciate it if you didn't pin on me words that I haven't said. Rather, as I explained to you, in English, before: unless you have it tattooed on your forehead that you're an anglophone, you can't expect that people address you in English by default, especially not in a place where the odds are 50-50 or greater that random strangers have French as their first language. Also, it is polite that, between two people of different linguistic ability, the language in which to carry on a conversation is the one where there is the least degree of struggle. This normally means that if your French is worse than your interlocutor's English, you speak English, the other way around you speak French (you've obviously already established that with people who already know you...). What you come across as saying, however, is that everyone should address everybody else in English, just in case they run into you.
Third: you compare Bill Clinton, 4 times Governor of Arkansas over more than a decade with Justin Trudeau, MP for less than half a term???? Really???? And, by the way, George Bush senior* wasn't a bad president, but his son had the same team of advisors and look what happened! The transitive property works in maths and, generally, nowhere else.
*I remember seeing some T-shirts on sale in Montreal, circa 1991, reading: "The USA have George Bush, Johnny Cash, Bob Hope, Stevie Wonder, Canada has Brian Mulroney, No Cash, No Hope, No Wonder!". Looks like Bush father would have been welcome North of the border at the time...
Sorry to have to ague with you too, Yannick, but starting to speak a second language is not the same as starting to be bilingual: that's probably where the disagreement lies. Bilingualism is being equally proficient in two languages, not having a mother-tongue and a second language, subordinate to that. It's one thing having to translate the odd word (I do this most often with the names of certain fishes, for example, as I know next to nothing about fish), another having to think up a concept in your mother tongue before you express it in another language. I could speak enough English to chat up foreign tourists back in Italy, but that didn't make me bilingual. I can say that I'm bilingual now because don't think in Italian anything of what I write or say in English. The thought forms in my head in English. I can still do the same in Italian when I'm speaking to Italian people, though. You probably do the same now, but that's the difference between speaking a foreign language and being bilingual. I have my hardest time when my parents come to visit because I have to translate both ways, and I haven't been translating for at least 12 of the 14 years I've lived in an English-speaking country. I end up talking to them in English and to my wife in Italian because any distraction will cause me to switch the wrong way around.
DeleteI'm a crap typist, though...
DeleteGoing off topic for a moment, this being Nov 1/12 marks the 25th anniversary of René Lévesque's sudden death, back on Nov 1/87.
ReplyDeleteEdgar Trottier, from the grave, marks the passing of Rene Levesque.
DeleteKweebec is alot like Cuba where murderers and terrorists are consider heros like Rene , The Rose brothers and their FLQ brethren
Delete"...where murderers and terrorists are consider heros..."
DeleteJe perçois certaines similitudes avec l'armée...
I guess the occassion calls for a 30 Cigarette salute.
Delete"Mr. SaugaThursday, November 1, 2012 2:06:00 AM EDT
Going off topic for a moment, this being Nov 1/12 marks the 25th anniversary of René Lévesque's sudden death, back on Nov 1/87."
John James, Justin is worse than Lisee because he should know better.
ReplyDeleteMr Editor,
ReplyDeleteYou wrote : "So it seems that our 'reasonable' Mr Lisée is deathly afraid of the mixing of the linguistic races."
In fact, Lisée says that " the movement of allophone students into English-language CEGEPs" is the fourth factor explaining the decline of french on Montreal island. (And he adds that this fourth factor is "the least important".) (Reference
You are suggesting that Lisée wants to avoid linguistic and racial mixing. But Lisée is talking about the issue of immigrants attending french or english cegeps. He wants them (immigrants, allophones, no-whites, non-catholics, blacks, asians, you get the picture.) to attend french cegeps. So he want french students to mix with all these diverse languages and races.
So, your suggestion of a Lisée's will to avoid language and/or racial mixing is intellectualy dishonest.
You ask : "I wonder how things would be perceived in Germany if a political leader would outline his goal of seeing Berlin returning to its Aryan roots."
Your question should be : "I wonder how things would be perceived in Germany if a political leader would outline his goal to see immigrants integrating german schools along with the majority of german students." This phrasing would better fit reality, but, unfortunately, it would lack this subtle touch of insinuations of racism and this equally subtle perfume of apartheid reference.
I just noticed that the link I posted as reference is broken. This one should work : http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/School+boards+meet+Lis%C3%A9e+over+falling+enrolment/7328624/story.html
Delete"I wonder how things would be perceived in Germany if a political leader would outline his goal to see immigrants integrating german schools along with the majority of german students."
DeleteLisee states very clearly that he wants to restrict non-English students from attending English cegep where horror of horrors, they might find an English life partner.
You say it's the opposite, he just wants them to find a French partner.
Po-tay-to / Po-ta-ta ....It is actually the same
Lisee states that it is his goal that Montreal become more French.
How is that different from the hypothetical German politician wanting Berlin to become more Aryan?
I know when put that way it sounds racist, but the analogy holds up, unpleasant as it is.
"Your question should be : "I wonder how things would be perceived in Germany if a political leader would outline his goal to see immigrants integrating german schools along with the majority of german students." "
DeleteI don't think so because of the motives. Even though the actual action may indicate that it's about wanting really really hard to integrate the poor and aimlessly-wandering immigrants into the majority, Lisee's motives are different. His motives are to pull the immigrants ("neutrals") away from a rival linguistic group. So the object is sequestration, not integration.
Some may argue that this sequestration will eventually yield integration, but such progression cannot be guaranteed, and is not really happening. Sequestered from the rival, the immigrants are still kept at a safe distance from the majority by that majority itself.
adski,
DeleteYou write : "His motives are to pull the immigrants ("neutrals") away from a rival linguistic group."
You don't mean that there are "two nations warring within the bosom of a single state", do you?
Yes, Lisée's true motive is not about wanting to integrate the poor and aimlessly-wandering immigrants into the majority, but to pull immigrants (neutrals) on his side. In the same way, I have this feeling that the english community true motive is not the defense of individual rights, but to pull immigrants (neutrals) on its side.
Does two wrongs make a right? bla bla bla. Nevertheless, what you say about this struggle to pull immigrants on one's side is true and obvious.
Formons un pays au plus vite et les immigrants sauront qu'ils débarquent dans un pays francophone.
Delete"Lisee states very clearly that he wants to restrict non-English students from attending English cegep where horror of horrors, they might find an English life partner."
DeleteYou are right, but it does not mean that " (...) our 'reasonable' Mr Lisée is deathly afraid of the mixing of the linguistic races". This suggests, by the wording, the tone, the references to Germany and apartheid, that Lisée is a racist who does not want races to mix. And this is, in my view, intellectualy dishonest.
Yes, he wants to favor the mixing with the french majority. You can understandly disagree with this, does it make him a pro-apartheid nazi? I don't think so.
How is that different from the hypothetical German politician wanting Berlin to become more Aryan?
The nazis wanted a more aryan germany by gasing the jews, we want a more french Québec by integrating immigrants. Do you notice a difference between the two methods?
"I know when put that way it sounds racist (...)"
I doesn't sound racist by accident ; the tone, the wording, the references were chosen on purpose.
"In the same way, I have this feeling that the english community true motive is not the defense of individual rights, but to pull immigrants (neutrals) on its side."
DeleteThat may be, but it doesn't negate what I said about Lisee, about his lying (romanticizing) about integration as cover for purely political ends. Alleged Anglo motives (their agenda) do not excuse Lisee's lying.
In this particular case, I see only one wrong, not "two wrongs". Both sides wanting immigrants on their side is not a wrong, it's something natural. What is a wrong is Lisee's affinity for the overuse of the coercive state apparatus and his lying about his pious goals of integration. QC Anglos sure are no angels, but the PR and political power in QC is concentrated squarely on the other side, so I tend to concentrate on the "representatives" of that side. (in the 1950's and before, I would have been concentrating much more on the Anglos since back then they ran the show).
What I find funny is how francophones don't want to be assimilated, which is fine and good, but when anglos don't want to be assimilated in Quebec, well that's just fucking horrible, isn't it? Because "we can always move west". I, for one, do not ever want to be called "papa".
DeleteHere's a thought; if you're not happy in a Quebec that is part of Canada, move to another country. It goes both ways.
Also, why do we treat "integration" as a clear-cut term? It means something different for everyone. For les pures-laines, it means replacing whatever bastard tongue you grew up with with French. It's acceptable to use another language as long as it's out of sight, out of mind (ergo don't fucking use it ever or we'll attack you a-la-STM).
For anglos it's different. I don't need anyone to integrate. All I need is linguistically backward Quebecers to leave my right to speak and interact in my own language alone. I say "linguistically backward" not because French is "backwards" or a "hick language" or whatever, but because those who make legislature concerning language have backwards views. A Quebecer does not have the right to tell me what language to speak, under any circumstance. I may speak French, but that doesn't mean I have to use it. That's up to me.
Montreal is the last bastion of English in Quebec, which is the last bastion of French in an English Canada. Your bastion is worth more than our bastion? This is why I have a problem with the Quebecois' undeserved sense of superiority.
"You can move to the RoC" is an excuse which obviously doesn't apply to angsty francosupremacists. There's always another ex-French colony you can move to. Or is it wrong for a Quebecer to suddenly become the immigrant? White people shouldn't have to move?
Also, a lot of immigrants who move here are moving to Canada, and just happen to end up in Quebec. That's why more move on to the RoC than stay here. Of course there are francophones who move here because Quebec is mostly francophone, but again, much like Quebec is a minority within Canada, so too are these immigrants.
"Both sides wanting immigrants on their side is not a wrong, it's something natural."
DeleteWe agree. And no matter if we agree or disagree, no matter if it is right or wrong, it is a fact, both sides do try to pull immigrants on its (its or their?) side.
"What is a wrong is Lisee's affinity for the overuse of the coercive state apparatus (...)"
Some may disagree with the use (or overuse) of the state as a mean to achieve something. (Just a note : one Lévesque's main ideas was that the State was the only tool that we controled, and there is some truth to this. Hence perhaps our inclination toward state
interventionism.)
" (...) and his lying about his pious goals of integration."
But could it be possible that he sincerely wishes integration of immigrants? Perhaps he wishes to achieve this by the wrong means. Perhaps his goal hurts the english community. Perhaps he has this typical "we know what is best" péquiste attitude. But still, could it be possible, just possible, that he sincerely wishes integration to build an inclusive society? Could it be simply possible that he is not a hypocrite racist monster?
If it is possible that he might be a reasonnable man, a political debate is possible (not easy, possible). If he can only be a monster, we are condemned to be talking to walls.
Foremost,
Delete"What I find funny is how francophones don't want to be assimilated, which is fine and good, but when anglos don't want to be assimilated in Quebec, well that's just fucking horrible, isn't it?"
We are alike in many ways. You don't want to be assimilated any more than we want. Which is fine.
I am talking about integrating immigrants, not native quebecker english speakers.
If that was the case, wouldn't the goal then be: let them integrate into a community, no matter which of the two main ones? His position, assuming he's in good faith, makes sense in Levis, not in Montreal.
DeleteNote to Editor: this is why I don't like analogies with the Nazis. The comparisons are sound on some levels (the rise of Nazism, the early stages), but they are also off target on other levels (later stages within Germany, the war, the mass killings). A guy like M.Patrice can pounce on these later aspects, and divert the conversation from relevant issues (like QC's ethnic nationalism) to emotional ones (gassing Jews, concentration camps, etc...)
DeleteIt's best to stick to the topic at hand, and in the case it's the lying (whether by omission, selective facts, over-stressing some facts and downplaying others, half-truths, insinuation), and the penchant for coercion (authoritarian tendencies).
"I am talking about integrating immigrants, not native quebecker english speakers."
DeleteImmigrants might not want to be assimilated either. They do pursue a form of functional integration, but not necessarily a cultural one. The cultural integration is made even harder by the local population, whose hostility is a deterrent. So it's like a self-reinforcing cycle.
Full cultural integration is impossible. Immigrants couldn't erase their past even if they wanted to, they do not want to erase it either because one needs continuity, and the franco population doesn't want them "assimilated" anyways, only "integrated" in a loose sense, so that they don't go to the anglo side, but stay put and listen to what they're told.
Another issue is the contempt for immigrants in this province, as evidenced here. Note that he does not mind an anglo's efforts to stem assimilation, he obviously supports the franco's efforts, but immigrants? Who cares what they want out of life. (there is the "world normality" of course, the attitudes to immigrants elsewhere which justify the attitudes to immigrants here... Or do they?)
adski,
DeleteAnalogies with nazis are specificaly and purposely used to associate one's adversary with a monstruous regime. They are not about finding a similar situation to an other in other to illustrate a principle.
adski,
DeleteI far as I know, nobody asks immigrants to forget their native language, their history and their past.
I wrote before that an immigrant cannot be expected to become quebecker overnight (nor to learn french overnight), it is a two or three generation process.
" (...) the franco population doesn't want them "assimilated" anyways, only "integrated" in a loose sense, so that they don't go to the anglo side, but stay put and listen to what they're told."
We could argue forever. Simply, you are wrong about this part.
"I far as I know, nobody asks immigrants to forget their native language, their history and their past."
DeleteA half-truth. They are not asked to "forget" it, they are asked to replace it with the Quebec cookie-cutter one, whether they like it or not.
Michel:
DeleteAnalogies with nazis are specificaly and purposely used to associate one's adversary with a monstruous regime. They are not about finding a similar situation to an other in other to illustrate a principle.
However, they are also used as a warning not to follow too closely on the footsteps of what did eventually become a monstruous regime. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. If some political subject is following too closely on the footsteps that led to the monstruous regime you can't bear to hear mentioned, it might be useful if someone pointed out that that's the direction they're travelling in. It might be taken as an invitation to slow down or change tack if you abhor what lies at the end of the road.
Whilst calling someone a "Nazi" due to their personality or attitude might be exaggerated, pointing out that the Nazis passed legislation and had policies in place that closely resemble what is in place or is proposed to be put in place in Quebec is entirely proper, and should be taken seriously.
"I far as I know, nobody asks immigrants to forget their native language, their history and their past"
DeleteI would argue with this. Even if the word "forget" ("oublier") is not used, you can ask someone to forget in other, more subtle, ways (subtlety is one of the points of this post too, since it is one of the qualities of the subject of the post).
Through official channels (e.g. from the platitudes spun by politicians) immigrants are asked to de-prioritize their cultures at the expense of the majority culture (e.g. the latest debate about laicite). At the same time, through unofficial channels (day to day interactions), they are reminded that they are merely the "imported" ones. This kind of toying with people's lives is, for the lack of a better word, immoral.
The immigrant is not supposed to assimilate a new culture (the local population makes sure of that). He is supposed to disconnect from his previous culture (the officials try to make sure of that, against some resistance), and there is a world of difference between these two. And as someone culture-less, someone disconnected, he is much easier to control than someone with a firm grounding in his community (some community, any community).
The Quebec Partition, in his post above, is quite right. The path is there and is being widened as we watch from afar.
DeleteThe Quebec Partition,
DeleteI understand what you mean and I have written before that I did not like to see increasing signs of intolerance in our society and that I did not like it because, among other things, nazi germany was born out of the despair and the frustration of the german people. So I understand what you mean.
But nevertheless, the way Lisée is depicted in this post as a racist pro-apartheid nazi is intellectualy dishonest (for reasons I have already explained).
adski,
Delete"And as someone culture-less, someone disconnected, he is much easier to control than someone with a firm grounding in his community (some community, any community)."
Why do I picture you typing this wearing a aluminium foil hat?
"Why do I picture you typing this wearing a aluminium foil hat?"
DeleteParce que vous regardez trop de cinéma américain?...Une idée comme ça.
We are reading ENGLISH again I see. Wallop...Swallow!
DeleteLOLOLOL LOL
DeleteFROM ED BROWN
ReplyDeletePartition, What's with you? I feel like I am being stalked. You sound like my wife when you tell me "you said this or you said that". If you're keeping a history of me I'm impressed but get it right.
Yes I read French slow. I am a a speed reader in English which makes french very slow for me. To say that reading french is easier than understanding it is bullshit. Maybe for you but it is not for me.
Who are you to judge what is bilingual. There are people who can't read but they are still bilingual.
When I am at home, I work in English. I expect Hydro Quebec / Bell / Videotron etc. to contact me in English. On the street I always speak French first. The rest of that paragraph I didn't understand.
George Bush senior's team was led by Reagan's men like Ed Meese and James Baker. Junior's team was the dreaded Karl Rove and Dick Cheney. There was no connection. The point with Clinton is that he never would have made it without men like Paul Begala who got him elected and Jimmy carville who came up with 'it's the economy stupid.' Justin can do the same. With economic aid from Paul Martin who would do it for Canada he would be in good hands, if we give him the chance. The rest of Canada seems ready to accept him while you and complicated search for reasons why he can't do it. Negativism did nothing for this country, it was built on positive thinking.I won't argue with your negativism any more so don't bother to answer. This blog is not there for personal arguements. Ed
If you're keeping a history of me I'm impressed but get it right.
DeleteSame for you: read below
To say that reading french is easier than understanding it is bullshit. Maybe for you but it is not for me.
When, in fact I said:
And reading is a hell of a lot easier than listening.
And I stand by it: if you listen you have to "get it" there and then, if you read you can read it back until you "get it". Try that for size.
There are people who can't read but they are still bilingual.
But you CAN read! And, more importantly, people who can't read (some 1% of the Canadian population?) generally can't read ANY language, so their issue is more with reading in general, rather than the language itself.
When I am at home, I work in English. I expect Hydro Quebec / Bell / Videotron etc. to contact me in English.
I'm sure you've already made sure that Hydro Quebec / Bell / Videotron etc.have that in their notes. It's still an educated guess for anyone who hasn't got any data on you.
On the street I always speak French first.
You won't hear me criticising you for that.
The rest of that paragraph I didn't understand.
Well, it seems that, from what you described above, you do more or less what the paragraph said. Sorry you couldn't understand that - less speed reading?
George Bush senior's team was led by Reagan's men like Ed Meese and James Baker. Junior's team was the dreaded Karl Rove and Dick Cheney. There was no connection.
Dick Cheney worked for Bush Senior, so did Colin Powell and they both were involved in the first Iraq war (Desert Storm). Rumsfeld worked for Reagan and Nixon, I'm sure he was familiar with Bush Senior, given that he was Reagan's Vice-President... The point is: they were W's "keepers", all men of experience, and yet...
The point with Clinton is that he never would have made it without men like Paul Begala who got him elected and Jimmy carville who came up with 'it's the economy stupid.'
I see where the problem lies: you seem to believe that being a good President or Prime Minister is all about being elected. The fact is: when Clinton came to office the economy was already mended, all he did was not rock the boat. And, he actually did some serious harm with the repeal of the Glass-Steagall act and the policy of expanding home ownership that caused most of the problems we have witnessed in the last few years. W was a disater by any standard, Clinton, however, was an unimpressive president who got off the ride before the shit hit the fan. Still good for a Democrat and better than Obama and Carter, but no miracle man either.
Justin can do the same. With economic aid from Paul Martin who would do it for Canada he would be in good hands, if we give him the chance. The rest of Canada seems ready to accept him while you and complicated search for reasons why he can't do it.
So you think that he can be the Saviour by being the Face and the spokesperson of a former Prime Minister that was rejected by the voters in favour (of all people) of Harper. Who's been increasing his share of the vote at every election since, just by NOT being Paul Martin or any of the previous lot. You really don't think there is more to being Prime Minister than doing the odd speech, do you? And Harper is possibly the least charismatic public speaker in the world!
DeleteNegativism did nothing for this country, it was built on positive thinking.I won't argue with your negativism any more so don't bother to answer. This blog is not there for personal arguements. Ed
There is positive thinking and there is putting a red rosette on a turd, voting blindly for it and hoping it will turn out to be alright. I'd have thought age brings wisdom, but if that's how you feel, there is a bridge in downtown Manhattan I'd like to sell you. As per the "invitation" not to reply: you don't get to choose, sorry. The la-la-la-I'm-not-listening defense does not cover the weakness of your arguments.
Also, notice how high the Liberals were riding in the polls when Ignatieff became leader, and the NDP when Mulcair got the top job: do you really want to bet the house on a poll that only shows that new faces are always popular for a while? I take it you don't like the Conservatives. Fine: each to his own. However, they won't stay in power forever, so you can still hope for a better (from your point of view) future. So, the Grits or the NDP will replace them in power (my money is on the NDP, even if I like them even less): do you really look forward to seeing a man who's never had any responsibility in his life hold the reins of power? What if Paul Martin dies? Jack Layton's gone, it's not unheard of. Then, what? Some more hidden "genius" to the rescue? And what makes you think he'd do a decent job a second time around? There are decent candidates (personally I prefer Marc Garneau) who actually have had some real life responsibilty to choose from. Chances are, they'd have the same team to support them, so why pick baby-face instead? As I said before: if it's just a famous name that you want, Justin Bieber could be just as good or, if you want an Anglo-Montrealer, how about William Shatner?
DeleteThe Quebec Partition,
DeleteDo we really have an option to vote for besides the Grits on Montreal island? Realistically, even if I supported the conservatives is there any realistic chance that even one will get voted in on any riding on the island? Worst yet would you rather have a Bloc candidate or Bloc light candidate aka the NDP win a seat because a portion of the vote was wasted on a candidate that had no chances? Do you realistically believe that Justin and the federal liberals will be worst then the NDP or Bloc on the linguistic front? Justin is a coward for not going straight out against bill 101 but so is every single Federal party leader. Harper hasn't done anything to help the minorities in Quebec either. He even went as far as to declare the Quebecois a nation to get votes in Quebec.
As I mentioned before I think that the Liberals under Justin Trudeau at least will be able to get rid of many NDP and Bloc MPs in Montreal and western Quebec. I have no hope of him doing anything to help the minorities but I doubt he will hinder us. On the other hand on my economic security and that of the vast majority of the Canadian middle and working class I can say with certainty that I see Harper as a working against it. Think about the kind of supporters that are close to Harper, look at the wildrose types in ALberta who went on to make common cause with the like of Marois.
I will rationally vote for Justin and the Grits. As for Iggy, I never felt he had a chance. He was parachuted in out of nowhere. Even Dion did better with his Green Shift that i didn't support. On the other hand I still voted Liberal out of necessity.
Jarry, I can see your point, but in light of this, how is it any different for Montreal islanders who the leader of the Grits is? And why do you think Justin will stick it out for you instead of any other potential Liberal leader? I mean, look at his resumé: how long has he been doing anything before he got bored? Do you think he'd still dabble in politics should he lose the leadership race?
DeleteMuch as I'm probably closer to the Conservatives than you are, I agree that Harper was wrong to declare the Quebecois a "nation", but then, look what he got in return: 4, 5 MP's? The fact is (much as this won't be to anybody's liking) that Quebec is a hindrance to a government that polls 48% in the RoC and next to nothing in Quebec. The same thing is happening in the UK: lose Scotland and there will be 10% less MP's, almost all from the same political party. A good deal if you're NOT that party.
All Governments run out of favour eventually, and Harper will be no different, to the relief of many, including their supporters who, whatever their political convictions, are always disappointed by the reality of politics. The question is: who do you want to step into their boots? It's not even a matter of political affiliation, rather of who has the capacity to run a country. As I said before to Ed, there are certain skills required, and a certain degree of experience: can you honestly say that Justin's skills and experience trump those of any other leader or potential leader? Hell, even that ultimate face without content, some Tony Blair, spent some time as Shadow Home Secretary before conning his rivals into giving him a Leader's Coronation! Can you really put up with Justin learning on the job?
As per the likelihood of the Grits coming back to power: right now they are non-existent (as usual) in Alberta, disgraced in Ontario, in big trouble in Quebec and soon to be wiped out in BC. It's fair to say that within the next 12 months they are likely to be out of contention in the 4 Provinces with the largest number of MP's. I don't see them turning that around in time for the next federal Election. Maybe the following one, if they stop trying for Hail Marys and picking beauty queens for leaders and start thinking about some policies other than "look how great we are, how can you not see that?". In the meantime, I'd say the odds are overwhelimingly for a hung parliament with either the Conservatives or the NDP as the largest party. My personal take on it is that, in a democratic system, if the vote has to count for anything, middle of the road parties are a nuisance: their politics may well be best, but then it makes it really hard to get rid of them when they screw up (say, due to corruption). So, when the tide turns, it might take longer (for the Grits, A LOT longer) but it turns for good. You can get rid of the extremes because their policies become unpopular, and that generally cleans up the slate (for a while...), you only get rid of the middle of the road because THEY become unpopular, and that's usually a one way street.
FROM ED BROWN
ReplyDeleteEDITOR YOU SAY "Another banal stupidity, oft repeated by Mr. Lisée, is when he tells everyone not to worry, Quebecers are the most bilingual of all Canadians, a shamelessly stupid statement which shall be the subject of another post."
Anglophones should not worry, isn't that what Rene Levesque said? Ed
ON AN UNRELATED NOTE: http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/dossiers/conflit-etudiant/201211/01/01-4589410-gabriel-nadeau-dubois-coupable-doutrage-au-tribunal.php
ReplyDeleteGabriel Nadeau-Dubois was found guilty and is now facing jail time. I'm proud to say I contributed
to the plaintiff's legal fund.
Have fun in jail Gabby!
I'm glad at least one of them is going to have to pay something - hope it's jail time too. They got exactly what they wanted by the witch giving into them and from now on there will be no control over them. They will get away with whatever they like - how lovely, disobey the law and be rewarded. I've been doing it wrong all my life.
ReplyDeleteWhat I don't get is that when I suggest that the ROC kick quebec out, that they aren't just jumping all over the idea. They would get what they want, we would get what we want (rid of them and partition of the province by democratic means) and all would be resolved. Why isn't there a grass root movement in quebec to get kicked out? Come on you seppies - get with the program. This is to be done before any more transfer payments are sent your way (just thought I'd point this out). Tired of living in this backward province and want the Canadians out of here with our own province.
ReplyDeleteFROM ED BROWN
DeleteCutie you are sounding like the voice crying from the wilderness. Why do you take it for granted that the ROC wants Quebec out? They don't want to break up the country and most Quebecers don't either. Until there is a grass roots cry for separation it is only a pipe dream. Transfer payments are set until 2014. Separatists will not achieve separation because they don't have the majority and will likely lose what they've got in the spring. Really there is very little to worry about for now. Ed
"Tired of living in this backward province..."
ReplyDeleteTake the 401!
:)
Now, now, that's unworthy of the WHITE FRENCH CANADIAN ROMAN CATHOLIC you're so proud to be, as you said yourself!
DeleteIf and when people leave, they will do so because they recognize what a dead beat province this is. They leave because they realize it no longer has anything to offer them, or anyone. These people will be resourceful and versatile and will feel that staying here limits their potential. It will have nothing to do with you thinking or believing that you and those like you have pushed them out. They are moving on to bigger and better things OUT OF CHOICE. They have the luxury of THE CHOICE, let’s be very clear about this. Whereas you and those like you are limited and hindered unilingual BS recipients. Your government is boxing you in on purpose to ensure someone stays in this no-where province to pay for its insurmountable debt and the aging baby boomer francophone population. You poor thing, you’re in a coma and you don’t even realize it.
ReplyDeleteLa communauté anglophone toute entière vous remercie d'avoir accepté d'être leur porte-parole.
DeleteVous ne seriez pas du genre à généraliser,n'est-ce pas?
This blog drives you absolutely nuts doesn't it? Good ! Wallop...Swallow !! By the way Editor should send you a bill for the time you hang out here, learning ENGLISH, so far free of charge!
DeleteFROM ED BROWN
DeleteAnectote - Editor as asked us not to feed the trolls. Some days over 50% of the blog is filled with SR arguments. Try to ignore him and he will go away. Ed
FROM ED BROWN
DeleteReally Yannick SR saying something of substance. Can you get sense from a rock? Can you roll a separatist up hill? Can you tell an English joke and make a separatist laugh? Can a separatist sing 'O Canada' to a snake under a rock? Sounds stupid but it makes as much sense as anything he says. Good night Ed
Honestly, Yannick... do you really still cling to the belief that this might actually be possible? It’s been literally years now that he’s been interjecting his nonsensical comments into the conversation while never replying cogently to either the Editor's posts nor to anyone else’s comments. He constantly speaks out on behalf of “nous” yet now is objecting that someone else may be generalizing on behalf of a community. Not once has he ever had anything of substance to say.
DeleteResident Evil has suggested that S.R may have bipolar disorder. Personally, I wouldn’t rule out schizophrenia. After years of insulting, mocking and generally being nasty towards us, he occasionally seems to be genuinely perplexed as to why we don’t take him seriously when he wishes us well. It is completely bizarre. There are definitely some mental health issues going on with him.
I understand that you would want to give a fair shake to a fellow francophone and give him the benefit of the doubt but come on… there’s got to be a limit! It’s time to give up already and admit defeat… this one is a lost cause. He’s certainly no Michel Patrice or Guillaume Legaré (nor you) with genuine, intelligent and articulate objections to make. After all this time, will you not admit this simple fact?
Le chat:
DeleteCombien de problèmes Québéco-canadiens avez-vous réglé sur ce blogue jusqu'à maintenant?Pour l'instant,je ne vois rien de substantiel et rien à l'horizon sauf des débats stériles ou chacun reste sur ces positions et beaucoup de masturbation intellectuelle.
Vous avez raison de ne pas me prendre au sérieux car c'est très réciproque.
FROM ED BROWN
ReplyDeleteJarry
You and I both know that a leader with charisma is points ahead of a dead body. Dion and Iggy impressed no one. Also I suspect that the ROC had become fed up with leaders from Quebec. If they had picked Gerard Kennedy they might have won. At the convention Kennedy spoke like a man with vision. A true statesman but the Quebec coalition was not thinking outside the box (The box being Quebec). At least Justin looks dynamic,
young handsome, the type of thing that candidates ahead at the start. Ed
FROM ED BROWN
DeleteReally, does the ROC feel that way. It's not the best fighter we need, it's the one that can win in the political arena.
Trudeau Effect’: With Justin as leader Liberals would win majority government, poll finds
Trudeau Effect’: With Justin as leader Liberals would win majority government, poll finds
Ed
FROM ED BROWN
ReplyDeletebefore we start a new thread, let's see if we can get through the next one without one answer to SR.
Ed
Ed - I find it fatiguing that this country's whole agenda is run by the Province of Quebec. I would like to see this change and the ROC have control of the agenda just one time. No, I don't think that the ROC would really like to see the country breakup but there comes a point in time where they have to be told to shit or get off the pot. Sign the constitution and live with us or get out and survive on their own. I hope in the near future, we get a PM with the guts to call their bluff and then we can partition the damn place.
ReplyDelete