Monday, June 4, 2012

OQLF Serves Up a Hearty Dish of Statistical Lies and Nonsense


It's natural to be skeptical when presented with studies and reports offered by organizations that have an axe to grind or a position to defend or promote.

One certainly wouldn't be faulted for mistrusting or discounting, from the onset, a report on abortion prepared by either the Pro-life Movement or the Pro-Choice Movement, as each organization would be expected to present those facts, figures and conclusions that best represent and promote their position.

It's also natural that when these reports are presented to the public, they be subject to a rigorous critique, usually performed by peer groups and those with opposing views.

Using the example above, it's natural that  the Pro-life group would use its experts to deconstruct a report presented to the public by the Pro-Choice group, in order to discredit it by means of exposing its shortcomings, whether it be false premises or conclusions, poor or incorrect methodology, or outright intentional deception.

The scientific community has long relied on the principle of 'Peer review' whereby scientific papers presented to the public are scrupulously tested and evaluated for flaws, errors, methodological errors and faulty conclusions or contaminated or faulty testing.
Any scientist presenting a paper to a scientific journal knows full well he will have to defend the work before his peers, who will either confirm his paper to a varying degree between a valid scientific piece of work, or a piece of junk science.

The best example that I can think of is the debunking of the concept of 'Cold fusion', which if true promised a cheap and abundant source of energy.
The two promoters of the concept, were mercilessly critiqued by other scientists who try as they would, were unable to replicate the experimental results.
For those of you with the time read  Cold Fusion: Future of physics or phoney?,  an article which nicely demonstrates the scientific method of 'peer review' in action.

Last week the OQLF came out with a series of studies reporting on the condition of French language in the retail industry in downtown Montreal, be it signage or the use of French in communicating with customers.

As for its credibility, I take the conclusions with a grain of salt,  giving the results as much credence as I would to a report published by Al Qaeda, maintaining definitively that Allah is the only true God.

Make no mistake, the OQLF has but one mission, the restriction and ultimate elimination of English from the Quebec landscape...period.
Any report that the OQLF puts out will promote this end and accepting the conclusions is an exercise in self-deception, something the mainstream media has embraced wholeheartedly.

It remains a maddening mystery as to why, when it comes to accepting any report produced by the OQLF, the media accepts without qualification or skepticism, the conclusions, without critical review.

Not one news organization challenged the OQLF's tenet that companies using a registered trademark as a trade name are required to use a French modifier.
This false premise is the basis of much of the purported non-compliance that makes for the conclusions of the reports. It is a classic case of a false premise leading to a false conclusion.

Readers should be reminded that in the 35 years of Bill 101, not one company has ever been charged by the OQLF with violating Bill 101 because its name didn't carry a French modifier.

To my knowledge, not one company has ever received a letter of complaint or warning, vis-a-vis the requirement for a French modifier and the OQLF has never sent a demand letter calling on any specific companies to add a French modifier.

I have it on good authority that a least two prestigious law firms (one of them, completely French) have provided opinions to several large retailers with 'offending names' that the OQLF has no legal basis to make this type of demand.
The advice given by these law firms is for companies to stay the course and keep quiet and out of the debate. Until a letter is received demanding a change, it is wiser to say and do nothing.

For thirty-five years that letter has not come.

The demand for French modifiers by the OQLF is nothing more than a seedy shakedown, a campaign meant to scare companies into acquiescing or else face a vicious public smear campaign based on a lie.

When the PQ was in power back in 2000, Louise Beaudoin the minister in charge of the OQLF, solicited and received an opinion that a regulation demanding French modifiers be appended to English trademarks would be deemed illegal under international intellectual property law.

Here's one of the very few articles that dares tackle the issue. It was written Denis Lessard in La Presse, back in March.
Interestingly, the OQLF had no comment about the article and not one of the French language militants responded publicly to the damning conclusion.
"Yesterday, the spokesperson of the Office, Martin Bergeron, argued that it was too early to announce the number of complaints made ​​based on the question of name displays as a result of the campaign. "We checked our legal interpretation before moving forward. We understand that there are people who do not have the same interpretation as us," he said.
Ha!! That readers is the closest you're going to get to an admission that the OQLF knows that it is wrong.
Mr. Lessard went on to say this on the subject;
"This new campaign of the OQLF ignored a formal opinion of the Conseil de la langue, that was provided to the government of Lucien Bouchard in 2000, at a time when  Louise Beaudoin was the minister in charge. The PQ government was told then that it was advisable to use incentives to get companies to francize their names, since according to the law, they were not on solid ground." Link{Fr}
(Hier, le porte-parole de l'Office, Martin Bergeron, a soutenu qu'il était trop tôt pour annoncer le nombre de plaintes faites sur l'affichage à la suite de la campagne de l'organisme. «On a vérifié notre interprétation juridique avant d'aller de l'avant. On comprend qu'il y a des gens qui n'ont pas la même interprétation que nous», a-t-il lancé.

La campagne de l'Office fait fi d'un avis formel du Conseil de la langue, fourni au gouvernement de Lucien Bouchard en 2000, à l'époque où Louise Beaudoin était ministre responsable. Le gouvernement péquiste s'était fait dire qu'il devrait se rabattre sur des mesures incitatives pour que les entreprises francisent leur raison sociale, puisque du point de vue de la loi, il n'était pas en terrain solide.")
It's no wonder the OQLF is not pushing the issue through the courts, it knows that it will suffer a stunning defeat and so it has come up with its famous 'soft approach' wherein the OQLF is showing a 'kind' and 'generous face' by using a gentle form of intimidation, that is, the shaming of companies into doing what it wants them to do.

It is a con game, nothing short and nobody is willing to call out the OQLF for the fraud they are perpetrating.

I remain amazed that in the many press conferences given by Madame Marchand, not one reporter, English or French has dared to put this question forward.

"Is the OQLF lying to the public over French descriptors and if not, will it provide the legal basis for its opinion."

Interestingly, this week, Louise Marchand, the head of the OQLF was beaming as she announced that a new arrival to the Quebec retail scene CRATE & BARREL had decided to add the word 'MAISON' before its name.
Whaaatt????
What kind of descriptor is 'Maison,?' .....it's French for 'House of.'

It seems that every single company can add the innocuous "Maison" before its name and be in compliance.
Maison 'Best Buy," Maison Starbucks Coffee." Maison Canadian Tire," "Maison Home Depot" etc., etc.

What happened to real descriptors like 'Articles de Maison' Crate & Barrel?
I think it means that the Offeece is now committed to taking what it can get and any French word will be acceptable.

It's sad and oh so pitiful...

At any rate, the OQLF is now pursuing a new dangerous line of attack cut from the same cloth, wherein it is now considered a fault to greet a customer with the familiar "Bonjour/Hi," something we're all used to when shopping in downtown Montreal or in the West Island.
"Greeting someone in the two languages is certainly not against the Charter," notes the president of the OQLF, Louise Marchand "But it can constitute an irritant which gives the impression to the people that Montreal is anglicizing" Link{Fr}
So according to Madame OQLF, hearing English in public is now an irritant. Hmm.....

I want readers to consider that again.

According to the OQLF, hearing English in public is an irritant!!

It begs the question as o whether will it become public policy at the OQLF to discourage what is perfectly legal, again?

At any rate, I'm not going to critique the contents of the recently released reports, to do so would be a tacit admission that they are somehow valid, which they are not.

Everything about these reports is flawed, from methodology, to its foundation premise.
Had they been prepared by the propaganda office of the Iranian Ministry of Information, they wouldn't look much different.

I will however leave you with one particular pearl taken from the highlights reports. Download PDF
3. Between 2010 and 2012, a French only greeting went from 89% to 74%, while a bilingual greeting increased from 1% to 13%
(3.    Entre 2010 et 2012, l’accueil en français seulement est passé de 89 % à 74 %. Parallèlement, l’accueil bilingue a augmenté de 1 % à 13 %.)
I don't know what idiot prepared that data set, but someone should have thrown it out because it completely goes beyond the realm of credulity.

As all shoppers in downtown Montreal know, it is widely customary to greet customers with a "Bonjour/Hi," a greeting designed to convey the message that the clerk is prepared to offer service in either language.

It's been this way for many years, but the OQLF report claims that in the two short years between 2010 and 2012, the incidence of this greeting multiplied by an astonishing 1300%.

In other words, in 2010, only one in a hundred greetings were "Bonjour/Hi" and in 2012 the practice skyrocketed to thirteen times in a hundred.

An outright impossibility.
A finding that is pure unadulterated bullshit, pardon my French!

Anyone who shopped in downtown Montreal knows that two years ago, bilingual greetings were just as prevalent as today and any change over two years is statistically insignificant.

Bad data, bad conclusions..... but who really cares.

The only people who take these reports seriously are separatists and English language haters.

148 comments:

  1. Yet another "study" from the Ministry of Silly Walks. Will they ever conduct a study on the negative economic impacts of the OQLF or language laws in Montreal? I wonder....

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    1. I wonder! But of course, emotion always trumps economics here.

      And on the off-chance anyone might be so uncouth as to not get the reference, the Ministry of Silly Walks refers to a 1970 sketch by Monty Python’s Flying Circus.

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    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    3. PS: Is the URL for this article correct? Or is it a sly reference to the previous article on partition? ;-)

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  2. "The only people who take these reports seriously are separatists and English language haters." Editor: You forgot to add: "...and the French language media."

    I've written before, and I write it again here:
    People see WANT they want to see,
    hear what they WANT to hear,
    and belive what they WANT to believe!


    Sadly too much of Quebec sees, hears and believes this crap because they choose to.

    Didn't Louise Beaudoin come out with something called Bill 40 during her tenure as the Minister of Language Propaganda where the Language SS could come into ANY business between 7am and 7pm unannounced looking for "illegal" English?

    I saw Howsard Galganov on some YouTube blog talking about this. Of course, HE was perplexed because what exactly is "illegal" English?

    The motherf--king OQLF could stand on their hollow wooden heads hollering into giant megaphones cursing the large organization who don't come up with French descriptors until they're Quebec flag blue in the face because all they'll end up is with laryngitis and blue faces! Maybe they can get s--t disturbing welfare bums with nothing better to do (like looke for a job) to do their dirty work. They'll probably only be too happy to do it because they probably blame the maudit anglais for their plight anyway.

    Unfortunately the most likely victims of all this will be the little Ma and Pa shops who can't retain lawyers on an ongoing basis. You had the Jew hating Amir Khadir picketing a store owned by a Francophone family in Plateau Mont-Royal because that store sold shoes made in Israel that consumers seemed to like. You'd think he had better, more constructive things to do as an MNA and the only one representing his party. I wonder if his constituents thought his time picketing was time well spent? I guess we'll find out next election.

    Interestingly, I watched Question Period yesterday morning and somebody on the show mentioned that in times of economic difficulty, extremist parties tend to do well. Greece recently elected a small, but significant number of members of an extremist party, and so did France. We all know why Hitler came to power legally when he did. Based on that, I take back what I wrote on Friday's blog (Partition) about the possibility of a benevolent government coming to power upon separation of Quebec, should that scenario ever take place (increasingly unlikely considering the «pur laine» of Quebec are not being the obedient (and gullible) little Catholics they were all those decades ago). I don't think at all now such a government would be benevolent. It would likely be as brutal and ruthless as the likes of Hitler, Malosovic, Stalin and other practitioners of ethnic cleansing.

    With most of the French media acting indifferent on the whole thing, I don't see much hope for Quebec coming out of this, at least not for sometime to come.

    With talks between those red squareheads (French ones, not English) and Premier John James "Goldilocks" Charest going absolutely nowhere with no signs of settlement in sight, it's just a matter of time before Quebec hits the debt wall and has to pay interest rates much higher than market rates due to their soon-to-be catastrophic credit ratings, and I hope whoever is at the helm of the federal government doesn't do anything to sacrifice the comforts of all the other provinces.

    Maybe in a situation like that, the ROC will have enough sense collectively to throw Quebec out of confederation and force them to produce their own currency to pay their crazy debt.

    I was born, raised and educated in Quebec leaving the day after my convocation, and I have NO problem watching the Good Ship Quebec sink into the St. Lawrence rather than sacrifice life here in Ontario or the rest of the country!

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    1. I share your views. It is no surprise that the pathetic and pitiful language issues continue for decades with no hope for resolution. Wasting energy over descriptors and apostrophes while people live tranquil and productive lives in English in Ontario is another reason why anglophones should move to Ontario and forget the myth of biculturalism and bilingualism. As someone wrote on another thread: they hate the very existence of anglophones.

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    2. Mr. Sauga writes:

      "The only people who take these reports seriously are separatists and English language haters." Editor: You forgot to add: "...and the French language media."

      No, that would have been redundant.

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  3. '"Bonjour/Hi," a greeting designed to convey the message that the clerk is prepared to offer service in either language.'

    I dumped the 'bonjour' part of the greeting years ago at my place. I'm an anglo/allo in an ethnic community. Stray French bigots can either respect the neighborhood, the clientele and ownership or they can fuck off. Speak your language, it's worth the occasional fine. By accepting to obey 101 we make second class citizens of ourselves. No sense in whining about it if you're not going to stand your ground when confronted. If you get a unilingual Francophone with an attitude, just take your time serving them, generally long enough for them to leave.
    We are never going to be given respect as a community and 101 won't go away if you just shut your eyes and hope for it. Take the financial loss when you must, the swastika graffiti, the occasional broken window but stop running away to other provinces, bowing your heads and muttering 'oui master' just so you can stick an extra buck in your pocket at the expense of your rights and those of your children. Seriously, wtf?! Fight back any way you can.

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    1. "...Speak your language, it's worth the occasional fine."

      FINE? What fine? You actually pay a fine for speaking one of Canada's official languages? Are you nuts? Make sure you contact every American network, every Canadian network and the U.N. if this happens and DON'T pay. What are they going to do? Jail you for speaking one of Canada's two official languages? Are they going to beat you to death? If they kill you, they don't have your compliance. If they jail you, you're in jail, but they don't have your compliance; furthermore, it's unconstitutional! My best advice is leave, or fight.

      I left because my mind to not live "Quebec's" way was made up in my adolescence, and at the first opportunity, I left because I KNEW the collectivity would cave in and not fight. I'm in my 28th year post emancipation and my decision to leave was never proven wrong! Every time I read this blog, every time I hear a language incident on the news, or read it in a publication, my correct decision is reinforced, practically every day, and I've now been away about ten thousand days!

      With social networking, why don't you start a blog or association with other merchants in your community and network with merchants in other predominantly non-French communities and fight those bastards? Pay a fine for speaking one of Canada's official languages? Really!

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    2. Bill 101 fines businesses for not offering service in French Saugua. Surely you knew this.

      This guy is saying that defying 101 is worth being rude to unilingual customers as well as paying the fine. Commendable determination. Personally in the same situation I would be amiable to all my customers, but then I don't like throwing away money.

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    3. "...practically every day, and I've now been away about ten thousand days!"

      Mais vous venez prendre des nouvelles sur ce blogue tous les jours...Cherchez l'erreur!

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    4. 'This guy is saying that defying 101 is worth being rude to unilingual customers as well as paying the fine'

      Someone walks into my place, that I built with my money, my sweat at my risk, and demands that I give up my identity to serve him/her in their language under threat of them calling the OQLF and having my business shut down, and I'm the one that's being rude? Where did you pick up your sense of propriety, in 'Mein Kampf'? Fuck 101, fuck the OQLF and fuck those who would impose their will on us at the expense of our identity and cultures - they can all kiss my hairy ethnic ass.

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    5. "and fuck those who would impose their will on us at the expense of our identity and cultures"

      C'est exactement ce que pensent les Québécois,sauf que le problème dans ce cas-ci est que c'est vous qui êtes chez nous...Vous avez un réel problème si vous croyez que L'OQLF va ignorer vos comportements illégaux.

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    6. 'est que c'est vous'

      I was born in Montreal, CANADA. This is MY place. Under the constitutional rights guaranteed to me by my country, CANADA, I am within my rights to conduct myself as I do. The rest of you are a non entity as far as I'm concerned. Painting swastikas on my walls, breaking my windows, and the occasional bruises from the violent side of your douche cause do not phase me. I am an ethnic Canadian and I'll stand my ground no matter what comes my way. Fuck you for thinking that you accommodate me. I'm here in the same capacity that you are. Unless you are part of the first nations, you should shut the fuck about your erroneous sense of entitlement. You can't have any more rights and privileges than I do, and if a bigoted and illegal Quebecois government grants you these, I ignore it and piss on the legislation that makes you think you're so damn special.

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    7. Vous représentez le récalcitrant typique que l'OQLF adore traquer...Beware.

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    8. 'représentez le récalcitrant typique que l'OQLF adore traquer'

      You represent the guy that sits at one of my tables waiting for the beer that never comes.

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    9. J'espère que vous ne tomberez pas sur un inspecteur "fantôme" car ce refus de servir un client en français risque de vous coûter un paquet($),sans compter votre attitude anti-commerciale qui n'a aucun sens si vous êtes réellement propriétaire.

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    10. 'J'espère que vous ne tomberez pas sur un inspecteur "fantôme"'

      Ha ha ha!!!1 Yeah, Canadians pump billions into the province so inspector clouseau can get a salary trying to catch illegal English being spoken. Whatever Gaston, it doesn't phase me, the Quebecois only amuse me. No worries about the fines either, the Quebecois in the Plateau paying me rent cover the expenses.

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    11. Mr. Sauga Monday, June 4, 2012 11:53:00 AM EDT


      [..With social networking, why don't you start a blog or association with other merchants in your community and network with merchants in other predominantly non-French communities and fight those bastards?..]

      Well Mr. Sauga, we are doing that while we also preach to the converted here on this blog, but we need HELP so why don't you start a blog in parallel with us too? You know this as well as us. You seam to be as unhappy about it even though you've left. So use your freedom to expose this English hating Taliban to North America!

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    12. You really need to face this Gaston. If you rent in or around Montreal, you're probably paying rent to and anglophone or allophone. If you work in the same area, the odds are that you work for one of us too. If you go out to eat or order out, you're probably ordering from us. If you go to a Habs game, or watch it on RDS, you can thank anglophones in both cases. If on your break while working for the ethnic construction company you roll into a dep for a little Vachon cake, we probably own the dep, and we certainly own Vachon. If there's Mozarella on your pizza, we made it and you buy it. If you go to a strip joint, it's probably owned by an ethnic. If you take a drive to St Sauveur for the day, chances are you will give your money over to an ethnic there as well. If you make your living in the underworld, then your livelihood is dependent on ethnics again. From the top of the crust, to the grit on the road WE are and WE own Montreal.

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    13. Anon 3:18pm: "Where did you pick up your sense of propriety, in 'Mein Kampf'?"

      He picked it up from his culture.

      And I really can't stand this kind of soft, sugarcoated, almost sympathetic to those on the other end, defense of 101. To me that is worse than the hardliners' total defense of 101.

      What's lost on these "liberal", "cosmopolitan", "federalist", "bilingual" defenders of 101 is that the letter of the law doesn't matter anymore, it's the "spirit" of the law that justifies the worst kinds of behavior. In this latest instance of OQLF's fear-mongering, they say this openly: this and that may be legal, but it is an "irritant" so it is bound to provoke people, so it's really your fault when things happen, not theirs...

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    14. "Bill 101 fines businesses for not offering service in French Saugua"

      This is what I'm talking about. This "intellectual", "compromising", and almost "compassionate" apologia (I "understand" you BUT this is the law...). It since only fines businesses, it's all good. Let's roll up the tents and go home.

      But the fact that fining businesses over this is not and should not be such a normality is somehow lost. As is the fact that the letter of the law notwithstanding, its "spirit" is enough to target that man's business, because according to the charter's "spirit" (French is the language of commerce and business) that man's dropping of bonjour from the greeting is an irritant that violates the "spirit".

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    15. I'm just saying, if I opened up a pub in Germany I wouldn't refuse (or be "slow" until they leave) to serve customers who could only speak German. And the Quebecers are the intolerant ones? I'm scratching my head here...

      Are you saying that you would not find it rude if you went to a pub owned by a francophone who would refuse to bring you your order if you ordered in English, even if you didn't know French? I would. I'm sure it happens, I'm sure you find it intolerant, and I'm sure angry people use it to justify their own intolerance. I personally believe two wrongs don't make it right.

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    16. Except for the glaring fact that Quebec is not a sovereign nation like Germany. Quebec is not a nation in any respect whatsoever. Its history is one of multiple cultures as is its present. Didn't know you could get internet under the bridge Yannick, you must be with Rogers.

      'Are you saying that you would not find it rude if you went to a pub owned by a francophone who would refuse to bring you your order if you ordered in English'

      That's pretty much the existence of every anglophone in Quebec waiting to press 9 to be served in their language, or being denied the right altogether.

      ''m sure it happens, I'm sure you find it intolerant, and I'm sure angry people use it to justify their own intolerance.'

      An anglophone demanding equality is intolerant. A Francophone depriving him of this equality, of his rights and of a meaningful vote is a patriote. What a fucking hypocrite.

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    17. "If you rent in or around Montreal, you're probably paying rent to and anglophone or allophone."

      Je n'habite pas et ne fréquente pas les milieux défavorisés.Je ne mange pas de Donuts pas plus que les petites saloperies Vachon...Abdul?

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    18. "This is what I'm talking about. This "intellectual", "compromising", and almost "compassionate" apologia (I "understand" you BUT this is the law...). It since only fines businesses, it's all good. Let's roll up the tents and go home."

      You misunderstand me. I believe M. Sauga was shocked under the misunderstanding that Anonymous is getting fined for speaking english. Anonymous is being fined for refusing to serve French customers in French. That is a different matter, one that M. Sauga surely knows about being that he is an ex-Quebecer and follows this blog.

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    19. No the anonymous ethnics and anglophones of this province are fined for having Guiness coasters on their table in this province because the coaster, since it came from another country, is not in French. Ethnic stores are being fined for imported kosher goods whose labels don't have French on them. Anonymous just had enough and is giving you all a well deserved finger.

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    20. "Except for the glaring fact that Quebec is not a sovereign nation like Germany. Quebec is not a nation in any respect whatsoever. Its history is one of multiple cultures as is its present. Didn't know you could get internet under the bridge Yannick, you must be with Rogers."

      Perhaps the seperatists are right then, when they say that they need sovereignty to obtain respect for their language. After all, you're using the fact that they are not sovereign to justify discriminating against unilingual francophones.

      And here I always thought they were wrong. :(

      "That's pretty much the existence of every anglophone in Quebec waiting to press 9 to be served in their language, or being denied the right altogether."

      Are you talking about private or provincial institutions? I don't believe it is a right in either to receive service in English, only for federal institutions. There are exceptions for health and education of course. And certainly it's preferable (as well as in their best interest) for businesses to offer English services as well even if it isn't a right. Just like the francophones for the rest of the country, basically. Except for New-Brunswick.

      "An anglophone demanding equality is intolerant. A Francophone depriving him of this equality, of his rights and of a meaningful vote is a patriote. What a fucking hypocrite."

      This is the exact opposite of my position. In no way is "demanding equality" equal to willfully refusing to serve unilingual francophones.

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    21. "Perhaps the seperatists are right then, when they say that they need sovereignty to obtain respect for their language."

      That bullshit doesn't wash with me or anyone else in Canada anymore. 'Give us what we want, or we leave'. I don't give a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut. Right now, I live in Canada, and I will live like a Canadian with the privileges accorded to me by my country.

      'Are you talking about private or provincial institutions? I don't believe it is a right in either to receive service in English, only for federal institutions.'

      It's irrelevant. Under the Canadian constitution and the charter of rights, 101 and its implementation is illegal. As such, it is the duty of every Canadian citizen to disobey it. I don't care how they do it, whether they spray paint Stop over the Arret, or whether they let a pushy Francophone customer turn into Rumplestilskin waiting for his beer, they just have to resist it and stand up for themselves.

      'In no way is "demanding equality" equal to willfully refusing to serve unilingual francophones'

      It's my business and my investment. If you complain about the English being spoken, or the that the waitress addressed you in English before French, you can pack back in to your French mobile and go to St Adele.

      I am a reflection of you only that I take my actions in true defense of my persecuted language and with the legitimacy my country affords me. 101 has gone too far and so have people like you who slip on the velvet glove while committing ethnic cleansing in the imaginary defense of a largely imaginary culture.

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    22. "101 and its implementation is illegal."

      Dingo,allez-vous japper sur ce blogue encore 10 ans ou vous allez la contester en court comme quelqu'un de courageux et de certain de ses convictions?

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    23. "I live in Canada, and I will live like a Canadian"

      TssTss! I live in Canada, and I will live like an...american

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    24. "I was born in Montreal, CANADA."

      Pas beaucoup de drapeaux canadiens pour une "ville canadienne",l'aviez-vous remarqué?

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    25. It's irrelevant whether QC is a province or a country like Germany. What's relevant is how far the power elite goes, and whether people oppose it, are indifferent, or go along with it.

      As for the man who dropped bonjour from the greeting...Yes, if it were me, I'd love to be served in my language. Would I find it rude not to? If some crap was pulled on behalf of my language, I might understand the resistance on the part of some to use it.

      It's the same principle as in the previous thread. Attacking the OLA might be out of spite, but spite has an ongoing cause. When looking at spiteful behavior, it's also important to pin down the cause of spite. Oftentimes, spite is bred by spite. If you were to piss on my lawn, I'd say you are spiteful, but if you did it after finding out that i repeatedly pissed on your lawn in the past, I might actually understand you. More importantly, I would certainly understand if I continued to piss on your lawn habitually, i.e. when my actions weren't fixed in the past but ongoing.

      Oh, and I wouldn't expect you to buy my excuse that I'm pissing in your lawn in order to defend my lawn.

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    26. 'Pas beaucoup de drapeaux canadiens pour une "ville canadienne",l'aviez-vous remarqué?

      They are where they matter and where you don't :

      http://www.vandoos.com/

      http://www.blackwatchcanada.com/

      http://en.royalmontrealregiment.com/

      http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/rch/Default.aspx

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    27. Yannick writes:

      Personally in the same situation I would be amiable to all my customers, but then I don't like throwing away money.

      ...the very reason Bill 101 was never needed in the first place.

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    28. You may be right, Tony. I was under the impression that back then since the Anglomontrealers monopolized the economics of the city, taking your money elsewhere was not even an option. Perhaps I'm victim of seperatist propaganda?

      Did you live in Montreal in the 60's? How was it really pre-101?

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    29. Yannick:

      Yes, I lived in Montreal in the '60s.

      You ask" "How was it really pre-101? Well, let’s dispel the myth of a widespread domination of English signs in Quebec prior to the language legislation of the 1970s. According to author Marc Levine's 1990 book The Reconquest of Montreal:

      A 1970 survey by Guy Labelle estimated that 35 percent of the commercial signs in metropolitan Montreal were in French-only and 11.8 percent in English-only;

      By my calculations that means that 53.2% of the rest of the signs were bilingual, presumably French and English. If correct, that means that over 88% of all signs according to the study included French. Hardly an overbearing imposition of English.

      Delete
    30. Anonymous writes the following fabulous words:

      You can't have any more rights and privileges than I do, and if a bigoted and illegal Quebecois government grants you these, I ignore it and piss on the legislation that makes you think you're so damn special.

      Unfortunately, the Supreme Court of Canada on more than instance has bent its interpretation of the law to accommodate the very legislation you refer to. The appeasement doesn't stop in the House of Commons where virtually every single party therein represented fully supports the race law/hate law Bill 101. It extends to the Supreme Court as well. And it's been entrenched in our so-called Canadian Charter of Rights, too.

      If Quebec nationalism is the enemy it has a friend in Jesus...oops, I mean the federal government.

      Delete
    31. A 1970 survey by Guy Labelle estimated that 35 percent of the commercial signs in metropolitan Montreal were in French-only and 11.8 percent in English-only;

      By my calculations that means that 53.2% of the rest of the signs were bilingual, presumably French and English. If correct, that means that over 88% of all signs according to the study included French. Hardly an overbearing imposition of English.


      I'm forced to admit that I was under the wrong impression. Bill 101 was not necessary to provide bilingual signeage all along, it seems. One is forced to conclude that the aim was not french+ signeage, but french only signeage.

      Much food for thought.

      Delete
    32. You're right, but I'm not aware of any government in any country, in any period, that didn't, at least in part, function on the principles of political expediency. All privileges and rights have always been won, and that's the only way to earn them. Our silence and the timid nature minorities have displayed in this province for four decades have eased the path of those who would suspend our rights, and of those who would sweep us under the rug to buy the votes they need for a majority government. This has to end now. We must create the necessary conditions for political expediency to 'bend' the laws of the country back into place. The only way this can be done is with open disobedience to Bill 101. The shame of Quebec as well as their federal partners has to be exposed to the rest of Canada, most of whom don't even think we exist.
      At any capacity and with all the tools at our disposal, we have to bring this matter to national attention. If the students can raise hell for a few hundred bucks, then so can we for our equality and for a meaningful vote. If you are a lawyer, sue; if you are a writer, then write; if you are a brawler, then brandish your bat; if you are retired call your MPs; get your spray paint cans out, hit the streets and demonstrate. When they shut down our schools, don't resign yourselves to a bowed head to go home and flick on CJAD - park your damn cars on the Decarie and leave them there until someone decides that this matter had better be dealt with.
      If we don't make a fight of this, then we don't even deserve the humiliating second class status we have been accorded. Superman is not going to swing in to give you justice, and neither will a corrupt political and legal system. You need to burden it for it to listen. Wake the fuck up and reclaim your vote, if not for your timid selves, then for the sake of your children.

      Delete
    33. There was bilingual signage before bill 101, therefore bill 101 wasn't necessary. Your logic is based on a false premise. You lost sight of the broader picture.

      Bill 101 wasn't about signage only. Bill 101 was mainly about the right to work in french and about integrating immigrants to french school system instead of integrating them to the english school system.

      Mr Kondaks, When reading Mark Levin's The Reconquest of Montreal, take a closer look to chapter 8, The Francisation of the Montreal Economy and to chapter 6 section The Impact of Bill 101 : Education.

      You forgot/overlooked two major aspects of pre-101 reality.

      The language of signage, being concrete and visible, is, in my view, a visible symbol, but it is not the core of Bill 101.

      Some more food for thought for you, Yannick.

      Delete
    34. 'Bill 101 was mainly about the right to work in french and about integrating immigrants to french school system instead of integrating them to the english school system.'

      Since the majority of Quebec was and remains uniligual, it's hard to believe that unilingual Francophone jobs have ever been scarce. Even with 101, most jobs in Montreal worth the commute ( and even many that aren't) require bilingual employees.
      Enforced integration is better characterized as coercive assimilation.
      Bill 101, in its scope and intention, is a slower, less violent version of what Israel seeks to accomplish with the Palestinians. It has dispossessed the historical anglophone community of its political power, its jobs, and in the case of those who left rather than stick around to see how much worse it would get, their homes. The disenfranchised that remain either have to become willing participants in political acts that seek to erase their own language and culture, or they simply endure, suspended in a grey zone that can never be defined as a democracy. In both cases, even those that are in collusion for their self interest, anglophones and allophones retain the moniker of 'autres' and remain under mob authority. When rural Quebec encounters a Pakistani, QC loudly proclaims more stringent applications for 101. In short, the legislation is an expression of hillbilly racism and xenophobia. The Bouchards and Marois of the province make out like bandits and the ignorant bigots find themselves competing for less jobs than Montreal could've provided in the absence of 101.
      The decline of rural economy has brought this population to the city where they encounter the dreaded 'autres' who, as they've been told, are the ones who deny them nationhood, take their jobs, and own a disproportionate amount of businesses. Hate will breed hate, and the usual demagogues in QC garner votes from the ignorant and from the desperate anglos who'll vote for the only party that won't go to a referendum, but still fucks them over.
      101 was the suspension of democracy and the return to the politics and entitlement of race and hate.

      Delete
    35. Bill 101 wasn't all about signage, but the fact that they packed so much into this law: both humiliating measures like the sign law, plus things that kind of make sense - like every jurisdiction's right to control the language of instruction at primary levels. Also, things that kind of makes sense (language of law and govt), with things that are insulting, intrusive, and annoying (language of commerce? communication? work? what else? ... the "spirit" of the latter of course extends to personal communication, as undoubtedly many of us were asked why we don't use French daily since we are in QC).

      So all that was packed into one law so that liberal defenders like the gents above can (in velvet gloves as the posters above astutely put it) do their shtick - it's not "just" about this, it's also about that...But why wasn't it a series of separate laws dealing with separate issues, but one law that encompassed so many things? Was it to cover up the (unacceptable) things with a bunch of (possibly acceptable or excusable) other things? Was it to underscore the "spirit", the root of anti-social behavior today?

      When you say "Bill 101 wasn't about signage only", this is the kind of soft defense of 101. And it's interesting that you're not even condemning the signage initiative, but kind of implying that we might have a point about it, or not...it's hard to tell, but that ambiguity is always the case with you LaPresse-reading, English-speaking, traveled cosmopolitan Quebeckers. But I lost patience with this ambiguity. If you "kind of" oppose Beaulieu while sipping your lattes in some coffee shop and tapping away on your laptops as SSJB's "guided tour" rolls past you, then to me you're not much different than them.

      Delete
    36. @Michel Patrice

      Bien reçu. En fait je ne parlais que de la provision de la langue d'affichage et non de la loi 101 dans son entièreté.

      Souviens-toi qu'originalement la loi 101 forçait les gens à s'afficher en français uniquement, la provision qui fait en sorte que le français est prominant n'est venue que plus tard. Si les québecois se sont voté une loi qui a changé ce qui me semble être un caractère bilingue à Montréal en unilingue français, force est d'admettre que c'était pour effacer la présence de l'anglais à Montréal.

      Les autres provisions de la loi 101, je n'en parle pas cette fois-ci. Ça devient trop long. Et ça risque de sonner comme ce qui horripile tellement M. Adski.

      Delete
    37. Adski,

      I don't believe that Camil Laurin's intent was to cover up anything. According to Laurin himself, Bill 101 was meant to be contreversial and meant to be challenged in Supreme Court. If there was a purpose to packing so many things into one law it was probably to make a bold and clear statement.

      I wasn't saying that the signage provisions of the law were wrong but that the law was about more than signage. I was saying that signage is a symbolic issue since it is visible but it doesn't change things that much. Francization of the economy and francization of immigrants provisions are not as visible on the street, but they have society changing potential. In that sense, they are more than a symbol. Maybe still a little too ambiguous.

      I don't "kind of" oppose Beaulieu. I don't like his style that much and I don't find him very charismatic, I think he is sometimes nitpicking and I think that he sometimes barks up the wrong tree. But if have to choose between Beaulieu and Anonynous8:39 and his insults, I'll go for Beaulieu.

      "...with you LaPresse-reading, English-speaking, traveled cosmopolitan Quebeckers."

      Odd. I don't know how to take this one. Is it a compliment? You sometimes are ambiguous too.

      "...humiliating measures like the sign law."

      Bon, bon, you are beginning to sound like, you know, those whining separatists always, you know, humiliated by something... (Ok, I am just being obnioxious, don't lecture me about morale equivalence and the past humiliations of my retarded kind being no justification to humiliate others. Seasonned observer of the human kind, I just wanted to point out the subtle irony of the situation.)

      Delete
    38. I'v seen Dr Camil Laurin...on tv say with his mouth that he and his party would be comfortable when the anglo population drops down to 5%

      Delete
    39. Michel Patrice writes:

      You forgot/overlooked two major aspects of pre-101 reality.

      The language of signage, being concrete and visible, is, in my view, a visible symbol, but it is not the core of Bill 101.


      I didn't forget, Michel.

      Indeed, I totally agree with you. Compared to schools, commercial signage is a minor part of Bill 101. I simply didn't have the time to address this aspect of it.

      Delete
    40. Anonymous writes:

      In short, the legislation is an expression of hillbilly racism and xenophobia.

      ...and...

      101 was the suspension of democracy and the return to the politics and entitlement of race and hate.

      Although I disagree with your comparison with the Israelis and Palestinians, I can't think of a better way to describe the situation than the way you did above.

      Bravo.

      Delete
    41. The comparison between QC and Israel is correct. Both are apartheid states.

      The only difference is that the situation of the Palestinians is much worse than that of QC minorities. It doesn't even compare. In one case we're dealing with petty administrative war of attrition, in the other we're dealing with criminal violence of the IDF and criminal dispossession perpetrated by the crazed settlers backed by the govt.

      Delete
  4. "...it's worth the occasional fine."

    Attendez de voir les nouvelles règles ($) qui s'appliqueront aux récalcitrants (récidivistes).J'espère pour vous que vous êtes riches.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. We wish you the same thing if ROC will cut the payments or if by mistake your plan to separate Quebec will work some day in this century...

      Delete
    2. Si ce n'est pas au cours de ce siècle ce sera peut-être au cours du prochain...

      Delete
    3. Le même récalcitrant ...Monday, June 4, 2012 at 10:11:00 AM EDT

      So sad ... lmao.
      Have you guys ever thought of having a realistic goal? Like making Quebec profitable again? Or at least Montreal? Or you're stick to your primary goal: to have enough beer money until the next "BS cheque" ...

      Delete
    4. Have you guys ever thought of having a realistic goal?

      Comme avoir un job de robot,2 maisons,une piscine,3 autos,4 télés,8 téléphones,etc ?

      Non merci,je préfère un rêve noble plutôt que de minables et vulgaires réalisations.

      Delete
    5. So move North you stupid ignorant, or go live in a tent. So fu.. hypocrite! Hippie attitude. For you it's only black or white: either you are a hippie or a corporatist. There is no middle for you guys. Anarchy or all robots, it's all that you think. The Plateau is full of ya': dirty buildings ready to collapse, smells of all kind, rats, everything is a mess. Everything that's past est St. Laurent street is like a ghetto...

      But you're happy in your ignorance...you don't need much: you just need us to pay your cheques, your education, your everything. That's including your fu ... internet access you moron !

      Delete
    6. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

      Delete
    7. Le même récalcitrant ... mais calme maintenantMonday, June 4, 2012 at 11:12:00 AM EDT

      You know what? I really am stupid for falling in your trap...you are nothing but a rant.
      So, be as you wish, may your dreams come true.

      It must be so wonderful to be ignoRANT. Nothing will touch you. You'll live 1000 years my friend.

      If, in your ignoRANT belief, you think that Quebec will one day become a country of it's own, only because of people like you wanting it, it's a bliss for me :). If you think you have a choice in all this ...but who am I to judge you ?

      In the end we both know who's going to win.

      Delete
    8. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

      Delete
    9. "In the end we both know who's going to win."

      Mais ce n'est pas une compétition,il s'agit simplement de rétablir l'ordre naturel des choses.

      Delete
    10. Who knows whats the natural order in our lives? You? The separatists? The federalists?
      Who??? The natural order is different for all of us dude...

      Delete
    11. 'Attendez de voir les nouvelles règles'

      Trust me, I'll still find a way to defy you and your bullshit legislation. 101 is unlawful and I'll disobey it and persecute it with the utmost determination and disrespect due to it and those who try to impose it on me.

      Delete
    12. "Trust me, I'll still find a way to defy you and your bullshit legislation"

      Trust me,they'll catch you.

      Delete
    13. Even if they do "catch" you, what's the crime? Are they going to start throwing people in jail for non-compliance of language laws? Come on, get a grip of yourself.

      I respect other Canadians not just if but especially if they are different from me. We are not a monoculture here in Canada. Trying to make it one (either purely French of English) is an incredibly stupid waste of time.

      Do you think that spoke French in France 1000 years ago? Do you think they'll be speaking it there in another 1000?

      Delete
    14. 'Non merci,je préfère un rêve noble plutôt que de minables et vulgaires réalisations.'

      Collecting social benefits and smoking doobers to Offenbach records while waiting for St Jean is not a noble pursuit.

      Delete
    15. 'Even if they do "catch" you, what's the crime? Are they going to start throwing people in jail for non-compliance of language laws? '

      They fine you and they can shut down your business if complaints keep coming in by uber race curtomers. They've done it to several immigrants already who have lost their investments because they couldn't learn French fast enough and with the degree of fluency that would make them tolerable to the pure blooded.

      Delete
    16. They can but one day they won't! You can mark my words on that!

      Delete
    17. When pigs fly...

      They already do!!!!

      Delete
  5. Ça sent la panique chez Power corp...

    http://www.journaldequebec.com/2012/02/14/ca-sent-la-panique-chez-power

    Viens-tu dormir à la maison ce week end mon Johnny?

    ReplyDelete
  6. 6:47 - "On peut pas agir sur le fait que le marque de commerce ou que l'enterpise ont registré leur nom en anglais. C'est intouchable. Mais c'est que'on peut fair, ce qui est deja dans les reglements ... c'est dire pour toutes ces annonces ils doivent y avoir un generique" - Pierre Curzi en entrevue avec Paul Arcand

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN8P35ephmY

    So Curzi does give a lie to SSJB hacks, like Denis Trudel who said during the recent "guided tour" that names Banana Republic and Future Shop are illegal. That was a lie, quoted unchallenged by the "leberal" and "federalist" LaPresse.

    Second, why doesn't Arcand at least try to give the lie to Curzi when the latter states that provisions for the "modifiers" do exist in the law. Since they obviously don't exist, how hard would it be to ask Curzi to provide the exact article in the law. Is Arcand daft, or is he self-censoring?

    ReplyDelete
  7. Yet again the OQLF report focusses on English included on signs and on bilingual greetings as a measure of the health of French in Quebec. When one reads the tables and stats, clearly French predominates massively across Montreal, including in the focus areas of the report, downtown, Cote des Neiges and St Laurent, all of which have large numbers of anglophones. Even in the West Island, a predominantly anglophone region of the city, French predominated for signs and greetings! This should be good if not excellent news for those interested in promoting and protecting the French language, yet the report has a continuous negative tone, and implies that any English is bad news, that bilingual greetings are shocking and should be eradicated. What exactly is wrong or illegal with a bilingual greeting that suggests it should be measured as it is, and presented so negatively. Again, all one can feel is that within the OQLF, the aim is ethnic cleansing, that getting rid of irritant English words within Quebec for those francophones who are intolerant is more of a priority than fundamental human rights of expression of all people, majority or minority.

    Perhaps I skimmed over the report a little quickly but I did not see reference to the size of stores and number of employees and how this affected their stats. I would imagine that most places that spoke English were small businesses, those that do not fall under the language restrictions of Bill 101, ie mom and pop stores, and that they have a full right to use bilingual signs nad to greet people bilingually or in English only. Is this an offence?

    Thanks Editor for raising this OQLF report and related comments. At some point anglophones may have to go back to the UN human rights for help.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Actually, as I wrote above, I figure the little Ma and Pa stores are or are going to be the scapegoats of these reports and the gestapo that enforces the language law. Why not? They're the easy targets the bully language gestapo can pick on and attack. The bullies won't dare pick on the international conglomerates because they'll challenge the bullies. They'll pulverize the bullies without breaking a sweat! The conglomerates have the best corporate lawyers on retainer that would toy with the language gestapo before picking them apart like overboiled chickens. Sadly, the Ma and Pa proprietors don't have the resources to do this to the bullies so they're vulnerable.

    As for the report, I won't bother reading it because first of all, I don't have to since the outcome is very easily predictable and secondly, based on the first thing, it's a waste of time to read the obvious.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I heard about the report on the radio last week, out of the horse's mouth, while Radio Canada 1 was interviewing Louise Marchand (I'm in the habit of listening to this station to help me learn French since I only moved here 2 years ago from Ireland) and I was yelling "You don't need French modifiers for trademarked names, you idiots!" into the radio. I would have called into the radio (even with my bad French) if I hadn't been driving! I was hoping the editor would do a blog posting on this.

      I'm a Weight Watchers member and started going there when I lived in Germany, where they talked about "points" not "punkte" and I always wondered what kind of modifier WW would have to put on their name. I was quite relieved when I read here that this wasn't necessary (and I looked it up in the Charter of the French language just to confirm it.)

      Delete
    2. JP to Mr Sauga:

      It is worth reading the report simply to see the graphs which clearly demonstrate the primacy of French in commerce in Montreal - even in the anglophone West Island, yet to read the comments which would suggest at every turn that French is threatened by the presence and use of any English, even if in a bilingual message. Yet, as mentioned, there is no breakdown regarding the size of the businesses, and much misrepresentation regarding those types (sizes) of businesses to whom Bill 101 does not apply to - just as with modifiers. The reader is unable to tell if the survey covered a large department store or a fruit juice stand, or perhaps an English language book store. As said, this survey basically measures "success" in terms of extinguishing of English within areas of the city with a large anglophone/allophone presence. Its practically a witchhunt against bilingualism, but should be read, or at least skimmed, to ascertain its nature.

      Delete
    3. I`m feeling a bit confused now. I read in Don Mcpherson`s column in the Gazette today that French modifiers have to be used if a company`s name isn`t French, so I went and checked the Charter again to find the clause that says that trademarked names are exempt and I can`t find it! Am I missing something? Here are the relevant paragraphs:

      63. The name of an enterprise must be in French.

      1977, c. 5, s. 63; 1999, c. 40, s. 45.

      64. To obtain juridical personality, it is necessary to have a name in French.

      1977, c. 5, s. 64.

      65. Every name that is not in French must be changed before 31 December 1980, unless the Act under which the enterprise is incorporated does not allow it.

      1977, c. 5, s. 65; 1999, c. 40, s. 45.

      66. Sections 63, 64 and 65 also apply to names entered by way of declaration in the register referred to in Chapter II of the Act respecting the legal publicity of enterprises (chapter P-44.1).

      1977, c. 5, s. 66; 1993, c. 48, s. 197; 2010, c. 7, s. 282.

      67. Family names, place names, expressions formed by the artificial combination of letters, syllables or figures, and expressions taken from other languages may appear in the names of enterprises to specify them, in accordance with the other Acts and with the regulations of the Government.

      1977, c. 5, s. 67; 1993, c. 40, s. 21; 1999, c. 40, s. 45.

      68. The name of an enterprise may be accompanied with a version in a language other than French provided that, when it is used, the French version of the name appears at least as prominently.

      However, in public signs and posters and commercial advertising, the use of a version of a name in a language other than French is permitted to the extent that the other language may be used in such signs and posters or in such advertising pursuant to section 58 and the regulations enacted under that section.

      In addition, in texts or documents drafted only in a language other than French, a name may appear in the other language only.

      1977, c. 5, s. 68; 1983, c. 56, s. 14; 1988, c. 54, s. 6; 1993, c. 40, s. 22; 1999, c. 40, s. 45.

      69. (Repealed).

      1977, c. 5, s. 69; 1988, c. 54, s. 7.

      Delete
  9. Soyez de bons citoyens corporatifs comme PFK (KFC) et Bureau en gros (Staples) que les Québécois continuent d'encourager.

    ReplyDelete
  10. The enticement for anti-social behavior comes from the very top.

    "On demande aux citoyens du Québec de se mettre en position de confrontation face aux commerçants avec qui ils font affaire plutôt que, comme État québécois, de s'assurer non seulement de l'application de la loi, mais de véhiculer un message fondamental: Montréal est une ville française, c'est la deuxième ville française au monde."

    Yves-François Blanchet, pequiste MP

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. what you mean Yves. Montreal is the second largest French city in the world..since you being an MP...that is the top right?

      Delete
  11. Editor: "It's no wonder the OQLF is not pushing the issue through the courts, it knows that it will suffer a stunning defeat and so it has come up with its famous 'soft approach' wherein the OQLF is showing a 'kind' and 'generous face' by using a gentle form of intimidation, that is, the shaming of companies into doing what it wants them to do."

    These soft approaches are used to achieve objectives the round-about way. But when doing so, the govt should still try not to reach the levels of absurdity. In this case, the govt wants to convince us that something is illegal, yet the govt "prosecutes" the "offenders" through incessant press conferences and press releases instead of an actual lawsuit. It's ridiculous even by Quebec Inc's standards.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Les anglos croient que nous les détestons parce que nous leur interdisons de venir ternir l'image authentique de notre ville.Le caractère original français et distinct de notre métropole profite à tous,Québécois,anglophones et allophones.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes you are right the French character does make it different but that is not the only thing that makes Montreal unique. It is the blend of French and English that make it unique and interesting.

      Unfortunately some people in Quebec think that Montreal was only built by the French and they think that English Quebecers are just like other English.

      In fact the English have helped build Montreal/Quebec as much as the French. If only we can recognize the contribution of the English, it would show that we all have what's best for Quebec in mind regardless of language.

      Here is an interesting perspective:

      http://moecitizen.blogspot.ca/2012/05/montreal-could-have-should-have-would.html

      Delete
    2. Your exposé Montreal - Could Have, Should Have, Would Have is a reminder of what I was thinking 38 years ago when my decision to finish my cheap education and take it away with me was made up. I was still an adolescent in high school when I made my decision and it took almost ten years to come to fruition.

      I've been in Toronto now about 10,000 days, had a Montreal girlfriend whom I finally convinced to come to Ontario for years three years ago. I told her for a long time once she came to Ontario, she'd never want to go back. She's been here now just over 1,000 days and she said I was 100% right. She felt that way after less than 100 days! How about that? Her young daughter is infinitely happier she's here.

      We don't have hockey riots, we don't have anti-government riots, our streets are paved regularly (my former street in Chomedey, Laval, paved in 1962, has not been repaved in its 50 years, just patchwork over where tear ups due to repiping and some potholes. My street in Mississauga was in better shape (I've been here 22 years) and it was repaved about 4 years ago; furthermore, a little bridge around the corner going over a ravine was given a facelift a year or two before that--just to freshen up its look from slightly rusting rails on the sides.

      The roads in Montreal are so pathetic that they really need to work their way up to pathetic. Main thoroughfares are in wretched shape, let alone side streets--ugh!

      Finally, the language nonsense. In Ontario, except for a few communities near the Quebec border, no problems here! Interestingly, many if not all the signs on the main highways are bilingual--from Cornwall to Windsor, and from the Great Lakes to Hudson's Bay. Quebec? Hmph!

      Delete
    3. Last time I looked, it's a bunch of (mostly) francophone students and a sadistic murderer who are tarnishing Montreal's image, not people speaking English...

      Delete
    4. Si vous faites référence à Luka Rocco Magnotta,il est ontarien.Tout va bien à toronto?

      Delete
    5. We don't have hockey riots, we don't have anti-government riots...

      Nous le savons,c'est plate à mort l'ontario.À part le grand concours de tartes annuel de Ruth,pas grand chose sous le soleil.

      Delete
    6. 'Nous le savons,c'est plate à mort l'ontario'

      Ontario is lame. No swastikas on synagogue walls, no Mathieu Reals running around planting bombs at English places and escaping imprisonment, hate crime laws that are actually enforced, equality amongst all citizens regardless of ethnic background and first language, no looting of stores and burning cop cars when the Maple Leafs lose, no collapsing bridges that make the drive more exciting, no unfair hiring practices that favour one culture over another, no enforced linguistic laws that degrade a segment of the population, no national assembly that only represents one portion of the population and uses he rest as a scapegoat for its failures....seriously Mr Sauga, as someone still living in Chomedey, it sounds boring ;)

      Delete
    7. "Si vous faites référence à Luka Rocco Magnotta,il est ontarien.Tout va bien à toronto?"

      Yes, he came from Toronto, but he last lived in Montreal and committed his heinous murder there. Do a websearch for "the butcher of Toronto" and see how many hits you get for him. Then try with "the butcher of Montreal".

      Delete
    8. Yes you are right the French character does make it different but that is not the only thing that makes Montreal unique. It is the blend of French and English that make it unique and interesting.

      Unfortunately some people in Quebec think that Montreal was only built by the French and they think that English Quebecers are just like other English."

      Actually, most of Montreal was built by Scots, Irish, Welsh and English! you can actually tell by the buildings built up with grey Gothic rectangular stones and red bricks, as well as those orange-colored stoned buildings you often see on bishop street and so on,e.g(Bishop Court house and the Irish pub right beside SGW concordia university)!!So,the only thing that is truly french, resides in the old part of Montreal,and that's only a small part of it, besides...The rest is predominantly British and North american and that's a cold harsh reality that separatists refuse to swallow and accept.


      If someone really wants to see a real french city in north-america, go to Quebec City...NOT MONTREAL...Quebec city is by FAR more unique in that spectrum.

      Delete
    9. Et la tuerie du centre commercial au centre-ville de toronto,c'est un étudiant Québécois je suppose?

      Delete
    10. Mr. Sauga,

      Not much has changed in Montreal since the 70's.

      With regards to it being boring in Ontario, this kind of throwing mud to different parts of the country is unfortunate.

      We should really learn as a society to focus on our similarities rather than our differences. If we would learn to do this, I think we would have a better country and we would waste less tax dollars.

      And I honestly believe that we could strengthen both English and French across this great country we call Canada if we stop listening to politicians and take the time to listen to our next door neighbours.

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  13. The Editor writes:


    When the PQ was in power back in 2000, Louise Beaudoin the minister in charge of the OQLF, solicited and received an opinion that a regulation demanding French modifiers be appended to English trademarks would be deemed illegal under international intellectual property law.


    Back in the '80s, I remember a Pizza Hut in Dorval that had as its main sign "La Hutte a Pizza".

    I assume that Pizza Hut's in Quebec have now reverted back to "Pizza Hut"?

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    1. It's been Pizza Hut since the early 90's.

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  14. Pizza Hut,McDonald,KFC,Taco bell,Wendy's,Denny's,Burger king,Domino's pizza,etc.

    Des bannières synonymes de bonne alimentation,autant en anglais qu'en français.

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    1. Oh shut the fuck up...
      Like you never in your life ate junk. Seems like all quebecois are eating at fancy rastaurants with fancy franch-cuisine? LMAO a bilion times, you hypocrite ! YOU MY FRIEND are one piece of hypocrite with capital H !

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    2. Les anglos ont de gros problèmes d'obésité et de digestion si nous en jugeons par les publicités sur les chaînes anglophones : Weight watcher,pepto bismol,zantac,etc.

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    3. Weight watchers is very popular among Francophones here, BTW. It's not an Anglophone chain, it's an American chain. You seem to be mixing up anything that comes from America with the Great Satan of the English language. I was born in one Anglophone country (England), and am a citizen of two other ones (South Africa and Ireland) and did not see any excessive problems with obesity any more in these countries than I do here.

      BTW, being Irish, I'm proud to be related to many francophone Quebecers, who aren't really pure French. Some of them even look like my Irish cousins! I'd love to see songs in Irish at the St Jean Baptiste festival, seeing that this is part of "francophone" Quebec's heritage.

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    4. Rina, Anonymous is just being a troll. It's pretty well known that obesity is a north american problem in general, not an anglophone problem. Obesity is slightly lower in Quebec than other provinces, but not by a significant amount.

      We are starting to export it to European countries too. It's a real problem.

      I agree with you too that it's too bad the irish roots of many Quebec francophones isn't aknowledged. Unfortunately once a link to culture has been severed, it is difficult to reclaim it. The natives are suffering with that very problem right now in the post-residential school Canada. :(

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    5. "I'd love to see songs in Irish at the St Jean Baptiste festival (sic)"...Fête Nationale.

      Lorsqu'on pourra entendre des chansons françaises à la St-Patrick.

      Delete
    6. Je crois que Rina se sent concernée par le sujet.

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    7. I'd love to see songs in Irish...?

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    8. Rina, I feel embarrassed to have to inform you that despite the obvious, so many French Canadians fail to realize how much of traditional Québécois music is born out of the Irish culture (with their common Roman Catholic roots). For them to feel so superior today as to insist that Irish pubs display French signs or that St. Patrick's Day should have French songs, well... I'm at a loss for words for it and it makes me despair for Quebec. SMH!

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    9. @Yannick: Do you know by who or when it was decided that the link was severed? At first, I thought that this was preposterous but then thinking back to the city’s recent absurd renaming of Montreal’s historical and traditionally-Irish neighbourhood of Griffintown to “Le District Griffin”, it made me shake my head again. Even after 190 uninterrupted years, many (though certainly not all) francos typically think of Montreal’s St. Patrick’s Day parade as being an Anglo-Saxon thing, when obviously it is a Celtic thing, which would have genuine Irish face-palming themselves in incredulity at the ignorance!!!

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    10. "which would have genuine Irish face-palming themselves in incredulity at the ignorance!

      Que pensez-vous des anglos qui amalgament les Québécois et les Français?

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    11. "Lorsqu'on pourra entendre des chansons françaises à la St-Patrick."

      That's not far out, actually. The French actually colonised England and then Ireland, during the Norman conquests (the date 1066 ring a bell with anyone?). A lot of Irish have French-derived surnames, for example Chris de Burgh, ex-president Eamonn de Valera, etc. French words crept into the English language, transforming it from Old English, Germanic Anglo-Saxon to what we have today. The same goes for the Irish language. For instance, the Irish word for room is "seomra" pronounced "showmra". There is actually no such thing as a pure language, or a pure culture, whether it's Irish, French, English or whatever. So why not mix it up ;-)

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    12. Rina : +1

      By the way, since you are an immigrant of Ireland can you comment on something for me? I understand that ever since the independence over there there has been an attempt to restore the Irish language to Ireland.

      How does it work in practice rather than in theory? Does the government promote the learning of Irish through the hiring of bilingual speakers? I assume that they can't pull a Quebec and go all Bill 101 because the majority of the population does not speak Irish.

      Quebec (and French-Canada as a whole) might be able to learn a few lessons about how to promote one's language in a non-confrontational manner if Ireland has succeeded at doing it.

      Delete
  15. Another season in the cellar is coming. But of course, French language is much more important than winning.

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    1. De pouvoir conserver notre langue en amérique,nous nous sentons déjà gagnant,beaucoup plus que de mettre une rondelle de caoutchouc dans un filet.

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    2. no matter how hard you endeavor to protect your language, it is still bound to fade away gradually...

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    3. On ne pourra jamais nous accuser de ne pas avoir essayé.

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  16. Of course it is...tsk tsk.

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  17. What is happening here is FANTASTIC !!! I love that the OQLF are slamming every single English company and sign out there. I love that the OQLF are starting to do everything possible to stop the use of English in Montreal.

    Maybe with enough effort, they'll succeed in getting the English people of Montreal to finally get off their asses and do something about all this discrimination. I am so f'n tired of people who are willing to bitch on the net yet won't get off their ass to demonstrate. To band together to take the Gov't to court over all this discrimination & so many other aspects of Bill 101.

    We deserve every single slam against us, every single school closing, everything cause we're too stupid to fight against it.

    Bitching on the Net will get us no where !!!

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    Replies
    1. Offrez un Donut à chacun des anglos qui sortiront dans la rue et je vous prédis un immense succès.

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    2. Je croyais qu'on en avait fini avec ces histoires de donuts.

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  18. I say we all revolt against the OQLF, post unilingual English or whatever signs you want. Work in unilingual English or whichever language you want. Disobey any recommendation or fine from the OQLF and let them go all the way to closing down your company. It would make fantastic international news.

    I dare the OQLF to come my company and try to dictate how I operate my company. They'd be out the door so fast, they wouldn't know what to do. Send me your fines, I'm waiting....!!! I started this company with MY MONEY, MY TIME AND EFFORTS, MY SACRIFICES, and I ALONE will choose how I operate. If I feel my company needs to be bilingual, then I will ensure it is bilingual. If I feel it needs to operate in English than it will operate in English. If I think it needs to operate in German, Spanish or whatever god-damn language, then I ALONE will decide, not you.

    I will respect my clients first, as they pay my bills. My employees will be required to work in the language I choose not the other way around. I will choose the language of operation according to my client's needs, not according to my employees. It's my clients who are paying everyone's salaries, not the other way around. The only one that has entitlement is the one footing the bill.


    Don't like my English words, then don't ask for my English tax money !!!

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  19. Well done Editor, it seems that only CJAD (your first radio appearence) and the great Denis Lessard have mentioned the facts - so sad.

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    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  20. Having watched the Diamond Jubilee Celebrations these several days, let me leave this note. Remember, this is official in Quebec.

    Dieu protège la reine
    De sa main souveraine!
    Vive la reine!
    Qu'un règne glorieux,
    Long et victorieux
    Rende son peuple heureux.
    Vive la reine!

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  21. L'hymne national canadien est une réalisation Québécoise,paroles et musique.

    ReplyDelete
  22. If the fantasy that Quebec leaves Confederation is realized the biggest laugh will come from the fact that Quebec will have to use Canadian currency which will have the Quuen or King Charles on it and the currency will be in English only.

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  23. 'In no way is "demanding equality" equal to willfully refusing to serve unilingual francophones.'

    When legislation forces one group to offer service in French but doesn't extend the same courtesy to other groups, then refusing to do so and expecting a Francophone to do the same thing for you that you've been doing for him, is not only resistance to the legislation, but a statement of equality. The offended Francophone who rushes to his phone to dial in a complaint to the OQLF is only determined to keep you subservient and is only offended because you dared put yourself on an equal footing. Too fucking bad for said Francophone then.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Why would the legislation extend to other languages? French is the language of the majority of Quebec's population. It makes sense to ensure that businesses can all at least cater to the majority. The minority languages should be left up to the choice of the individual business owners.

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    2. Yannick,

      Let me rephrase your statement. After all, what is good for the goose is also good for the gander, is it not?

      Why would the legislation extend to other languages? English is the language of the majority of Canada's population. It makes sense to ensure that businesses can all at least cater to the majority. The minority languages should be left up to the choice of the individual business owners.

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    3. If the feds wanted to pass a law forcing business owners to offer english service, for tourism purposes for instance, I would not be against it in principle.

      Of course one might point out that the circumstances are different : English is a vibrant world language that is spoken everywhere in the world and is the international language of trade and business while French has lost this status, even in Europe. I doubt Canada would feel insecure to the point of passing such a law. Quebec, on the other hand, feels plenty insecure.

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    4. Yannick,

      Just to be clear. For you then, is it principally acceptable that anybody else need to feed for French-Quebecers feel of insecurity?

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    5. I'm sorry I didn't understand that. Could you rephrase it?

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    6. Yannick,

      You wrote that the main reason language rules happen in Quebec is because French-Quebecers feel "insecure" in themselves. So all the oppression, all the conflicts, all the costs are there to feed the insecurity of French-Quebecers. And you do think that it is acceptable, in principal, do you not?

      Delete
  24. I'm sure I put in a comment saying again that I hunted through the Charter of the French language looking for the article or sentence that excludes trademarked names from needing a French modifier, but I couldn't find it. I had wanted to respond to Don Macpherson of the Montreal Gazette. Now I can't find my comment here. I was hoping that someone had responded to it. Maybe it didn't get published, or I skipped past it, with all the comments there are?

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  25. Yannick,

    Of course one might point out that the circumstances are different : English is a vibrant world language that is spoken everywhere in the world and is the international language of trade and business while French has lost this status, even in Europe. I doubt Canada would feel insecure to the point of passing such a law. Quebec, on the other hand, feels plenty insecure.

    French-Quebecers are a insecure, alright. Which brings me questions. If the French people of France speak different language than most of the Quebecers, can the language still be called French? On the same, if French people are abandoning the French language, do French-Quebecers still have the moral obligation to defend the French language?

    I ask these question because Quebecers are getting more and more French than the French themselves. Example. About two months ago I watched Champions League game, Bayern Muenchen at Olympique de Marseille. There were electronic advertising boards around the pitch. One product they advertised was Adidas F50 football boots. The advertisement was completely in English. Remember, this was in Marseille, the second largest city in France. Move forward several days later, I watched Montreal Impact game at the Big Owe. Similar electronic boards around the pitch. Then the advertisement for Adidas F50 appeared. Exactly the same ad, the exact same product, but unilingualy in French.

    That example got me scratched my head.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. They're insecure not about survival, but about being sidelined and forgotten. They don't want to be perceived as just one of many peoples living around here. They want to stand out. They have laws protecting not their language and culture, but their vanity. 101 is all about that: look at me, look at me, you can't ignore me, if you try, I'll make you pay attention.

      I'm all for laws that serve to protect, be it the environment, endangered species, endangered cultures, languages, etc...One has to recognize however when it's the vanity being the object of a protection scheme.

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    2. The French in Quebec is not much more different than the French in France than the English of Southern USA is different than the English in the UK.

      For some reason, while there exists a multitude of regional varieties in the English language, people in this blog make a big deal that the French of Quebec differs from the French in France.

      Think about it. The differences are mostly of vocabulary, and expressions, not of inherent qualities of the language like verbs, grammar, syntax, articles, adjectives, adverbs, etc. One could just as well speak English and express the same thought in a completely different way in England and in America. People don't pretend that American is a language and that people from the USA should stop pretending to speak English, though.

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    3. Adski, Francophones either in Quebec or of the ROC variety, are afraid of becoming marginalized in their own homeland. I understand you don't see it this way, and I understand that you might think it is irrational in Quebec and inevitable in the ROC.

      However, it is how actual francophones think about it. Substituting your own reasons (vanity, ego, etc..) when you can't conceive of the stated reason as true is not particularly helpful.

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    4. The fact that you can't conceive of my reasons is not particularly helpful. I'm offended.

      Strangely, my reasons (vanity, ego) do fit with your own assessment: "French has lost this status". If the objective is to revitalize the status of French, then that is a vanity-driven goal.

      And while Quebecois fight for "status", half the world's population (over 3 billion people) live on 20 cents a day. And those are the people with real problems.

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    5. Yannick,

      It is not the French language per se that I mean. Of course the language is already defined. What I mean is that the French in France is getting more and more relax with French and English. So if French-Quebecers hold French language as something holier than God* and French people of France are getting more and more indifference, can the language they defend still be called "French"?

      Is it clear for you or do I need to give you an example?


      *French in Quebec is indeed holier than God. Nobody makes any complain that people do not go to church every Sunday morning anymore. Plenty of people make complain about the perceived decline of the language.

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    6. Gotcha. I thought it was yet another snipe at Joual.

      It is true that the French in France are getting more and more relaxed. I have to agree, it is pretty ironic that Quebecers are fighting harder for the French language than the French themselves. In the end, though, Francophones in Canada feel attachment to French because it is our language, not because it is the language of France. What the French decide to do in France has very little bearing on the Canadian situation, irony aside.

      Delete
  26. 'Adski, Francophones either in Quebec or of the ROC variety, are afraid of becoming marginalized in their own homeland'

    Strange tactics then because they've succeeded in marginalizing themselves in their homeland and the continent, as well as garnering the scorn of their neighbors and Europeans. Of course, by homeland, you don't mean Canada, as I do. I suspect you're referring to the region within Quebec's borders. So is Quebec the exclusive domain of Francophone Quebecers who by their grace allow the rest of us to live among them? Are they an indigenous culture that has opened its arms to let the rest of us in? NO! At least one third of those that call themselves unilingual Francophones today are of Irish ancestry. This province has always been made up of multiple cultures. A claim to the contrary is completely untrue. If we are to accept Francophone status as you state it then we are discussing a colonizing people and their spear won kingdom. Since the rest of us left these principles behind by 100 years or so, then Quebec is the homeland of all Canadians, no matter what their ancestry is. Quebec can retain its fancy, look at me I'm so special status, by being officially bilingual and truly cosmopolitan, instead of xenophobic country bumpkins banging on pots to shoo away the anglos and the jews.
    But I believe that the issue is here, that you deny the inclusion of all Canadians as equal partners in Quebec. It's the same thing that finds expression in the province through Bill 101 that excludes all minorities from a democratic system and the equality they should have.

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    1. I am nearing 60 years of age, and I have been listening and participating in this language debate over the past four decades. I was born of an English father and French-Canadian mother, and attended French school in Quebec. Never even spoke a word of English until I went to California as a teen. I voted 'No' at the first referendum, and almost got beaten up in Old Montreal for wearing the 'NO' badge. I voted against a 'Québec libre' as I could not see how this province would survive as a unilanguage 'state' in a world where everyone spoke English. The world has changed a lot since, but I must say that all this turmoil has had terrible repercussions on my children and myself. Armed with an honours degree and an English name, I could never find a job in Montreal. I lived in an era where employers were blinded by discrimination and refused jobs to the English. I now live in Ontario (moved 3 years ago) and work as an Editor for an American translation company who hires French-speaking translators from around the world to translate Websites for multinationals who want to sell their products to the Quebec French-speaking population...

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  27. A former Montrealer who has a Ph.D. in Linguistics from the University of Rochester, is a former faculty member at the private, Ivy-League Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island, who is currently an adjunct professor in Linguistics and Psychology at the University of Calgary and a blogger on the Language Log at the University of Pennsylvania weighs in on the “Bonjour/Hi” courtesy one sometimes encounters in Montreal and which is currently being vilified by the OQLF:

    Much ado about Montreal greetings

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