Chateauguay to follow Huntingdon example?
"Over sixty English-speaking citizens protested against Bill
101 at the town hall meeting of Châteauguay city council on Monday and got the
support of Mayor Nathalie Simon and every aldermen except one. The demonstration was in reaction to the Office québécois de la langue française's complaint about bilingual communications by the municipality, considered not to be in compliance with the Bill 101.
The "Châteauguay Magazine" is particularly targeted.
For over an hour, citizens urged the board to stay the course, as did Mayor Gendron in Huntingdon."Many of the French support bilingualism," argued one citizen to the elected officials. "I know! I am one.
"It is not I, who called OQLF, "responded the mayor.
When asked if she would sign the petition circulated asking Châteauguay to maintain its bilingual publications, she responded,
"I will sign it," said Nathalie Simon on response to the request. After she had affixed her signature on the document, seven of eight councilors did the same.
Only Alain Cote abstained. "I will not sign. Laws are made to be respected,"said the counselor.
The protesters anticipate filing the petition at the next public meeting of the Board of Châteauguay, scheduled for April 16.
Mayor Simon said that she would present it to the MPP and Châteauguay Quebec Transport Minister Pierre Moreau. "The law is provincial, it is a provincial issue, she insisted. I will say that some of my people will be served in both languages. We are a family different from other cities. We must deal with it. "It also reflects the fact that 26% of residents of Châteauguay have English as their mother tongue.The mayor also argued that to produce separate documents for each language "will cost twice as much" because the city does not currently translate all texts.
The disappearance of bilingualism in the "Châteauguay Magazine" which is in the crosshairs of OQLF is not cast in stone. "According to the OLF, we are respecting the letter, but not the spirit of the law, explained the Mayor.
We'll see according to the Office which may be kept or not. Let's see what the best solution is, but we need to put water in our wine.
If we do not respect the law, there will be fines. "
" Let's pay the fines!" responded the people in the audience.
A bad idea because each subsequent offense would cost more and more, according to Nathalie Simon. But bilingualism in the "Châteauguay Magazine" will not be eliminated anytime soon. The file has been open for two years, said the Mayor. The complaint to the OQLF, originally focused on another publication of the city, which no longer exists."We had a meeting with the OQLF last year. The municipal machine moves slowly. The provincial machine is even slower, "commented Nathalie Simon. Read the original story in French
More OQLF inspectors
The
Quebec government has caved to pressure from French language militants
and added more inspectors to the provincial agency charge with
protecting the French Langaguage."Facing a barrage of linguistic controversies, the Quebec government announced Friday it is planning to give the provincial language watchdog more teeth.
Despite
a hiring freeze across Quebec's public service, the government said it
will hire 43 employees at the agency to fill vacancies left by
departures.
That is on top of 26 who came on board several months ago.
The
government is also asking the Office Quebecois de la Langue Francaise
to bite more often. It is urging inspectors to be more proactive — and
take action not only after they get complaints, but also beforehand.
Quebec
law allows the agency to take legal action and seek fines from
commercial establishments that don't respect rules like French
predominance on signs.
But
recent news reports have offered anecdotes of the laws being ignored in
Montreal, and that has created political headaches for the Charest
Liberals.
The governing party,
heavily supported by Anglos, has faced severe criticism from opponents
who accuse it of being too weak in protecting French.
Language
controversies began ramping up last summer, when the Harper government
announced the hiring of people who can't speak French as Supreme Court
justice, auditor general and senior government spokesman.
Since
then stories about slights against the French language and anecdotes of
people struggling to get served in French are frequent features of news
reports in Quebec." Read the rest of the storyNext on tap?.......Halal inspectors?
Language complaint at the Royal Vic
"A man says his mother hasn't been getting adequate care at the Royal
Victoria Hospital because some of the staff can't speak French.
Royer Harvey, whose Alzheimer's needs constant round-the-clock
care, filed an official complaint. He says that his mother, who only
speaks French, has had great difficulty speaking to orderlies and
nurses.
"There's a lot of staff that speak only English," he wrote in a
letter. "We speak to them in French, and there are some who understand,
but respond in English. There are others who don't understand French at
all, have no idea what we're saying, and respond in English."
The hospital and Quebec's health minister are investigating. Read the rest of the story.
Fresh Attacks on Halal and Kosher food
A story in the Montreal freebie newspaper "24H" is attacking the fact that prisoners are demanding and receiving Kosher or Halal food while incarcerated.The paper complains that the government is paying an extra $114,000 on a whopping 57,000 meals per year.... quite a scandal according to the newspaper.
The Journal de Montreal reports (without quoting figures,) that the Halal meals are so tempting that prisoners are converting to Islam!
But wait a moment, let your editor do some rapid math for the benefit of Le Journal de Montreal and other alarmists......
Each prisoner eats three meal a day and has one snack and this for 365 days a years, for a total of 1,465 meals each. When divided by the scandalous figure of 57,000 Kosker or Halal meals paid for by the government, it means that there are but 39 prisoners in all of Quebec jails demanding this accommodation.
Horrors!!!!!
But it makes a good story. Link{Fr}
NDP speaks with forked tongue
It seems that Thomas Mulcair is off to an inauspicious start as the new leader of the NDP.His less than impressive acceptance speech at the convention had party speechwriters shaking their head at the fact that Mulcair refused their help.
It seems that now that the NDP is the official opposition, it will not be able to play the duplicitous game of telling Ottawa one thing and Quebec another;
"The New Democrats did a very peculiar thing on Thursday afternoon.Canada's official opposition party issued two English-language press releases about the Harper government's budget: one was for Canadians, and the other was for Quebecers.....Interestingly, and perhaps as damage control, the NDP has issued a B.C. specific press release more than 16 hours after the Quebec press release.We're still waiting for press releases for Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario... Read the whole story
Louise Beaudoin returns to PQ fold
With her tail between her legs, Louise Beaudoin has been reintegrated into the caucus of the Parti Quebecois, her adventure in sitting as an independent an abject lesson in marginalization.Don't confuse this re-integration as a magnanimous gesture of solidarity and sisterhood on behalf of Pauline Marois.
Beaudoin was accepted back into the fold under the condition that she will not run in the next election. POW!
Payback's a bitch
Easy to live in Montreal in English
Not exactly Earth-shattering information, but the Journal de Montreal hired a unilingual reporter to live in Montreal and report as to whether she could get along in English only.Doh.....
Shock of all shocks, the newspaper reports that incredibly it is possible to live in Montreal without French!!!
Read the story in French
Montreal an English and French City?
"Hi, You may have come across this but I picked up a recent copy of Fast Company Magazine. It has a 20 page special
advertising section for the city of Montreal. It is sponsered by the Quebec government, Tourisme Montreal, Montreal chambre de commerce,
Laurentian Bank, and the city of Montreal. To my surprise the second paragraph reads as follows:
" Arts and Culture enjoy celebrated prominence by a diverse people with a variety of interests and its bicultural status as a French and English city
strongly sets it apart from other North American cities.
Thanks DAVID!
Another sad day.....
 |
| DEVELOPERS |
By the way I did my first interview on radio this Thursday afternoon on CJAD in Montreal about Bill 101
I was a bit nervous .
Have a Happy Easter!
Have a Happy Passover!
Heard you on CJAD today, you made some good points. Keep up the good work!
ReplyDeleteThe more I read this blog, the more I think my own open views aren't crazy.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Ed.
"The more I read this blog, the more I think my own open views aren't crazy.
DeleteThanks, Ed."
Agreed, but it's not really hard to see that all these so called "language issues" are just a handful of small-minded people with too much time on their hands, and the cheap quebec media looking for a story.
I'm reminded of the article the editor posted about that one dépanneur owner not being able to speak french, and people going out of their way to make it seem like a big deal. You can't get more ridiculous than that.
It's sad to see how much resources are wasted on a non-existent problem. As the editor keeps pointing out in his articles, there are much more important things we should be dealing with. But okay, let's hire more OQLF inspectors..
Editor: Is there perhaps a link to a recording of your radio interview somewhere? I'd definitely be interested in hearing it, and I'm sure I'm not alone!
Like Tree Stump, I too would like to hear the broadcast. I'll go to CJAD's website and try to find it, hoping it's accessible.
DeleteThe link for the broadcast on the Aaron Rand Show:
DeleteEditor speaks on Aaron Rand Show
Click the play button on the podcast that was posted 4/5/2012 6:50:00 ca
You can hear the portion with the Editor and Brent Tyler starting at around the 12:08 minute remaining part of the podcast to 5:15 remaining mark.
"Quebecker of Tree Stump"... that's a goodie! Wish I had thought of it!
DeleteI heard you on the radio!
ReplyDeleteGlad to see that slowly but surely the message is getting out there. People need to speak up, especially french Canadians, to the injustices in this province.
Keep up the good work!
"People need to speak up"
DeleteVous n'avez pas compris la réponse? : Augmentation de notre budget et enfin une augmentation des effectifs...Que le festival des contraventions commence ($$$).Héhé!
There will be a record in government as to who complained. And when the tide changes, a list of the people who harassed, bullied, and caused economic damages to people due to ethnicity and language will be available. Perhaps even for claims for damages. Do you understand that it may not be in your interest, or anybodies interest to be filling such complaints. The time and the political flavor of a period will always change. That does not mean people are to loss their heads and act in was that they should never do so. Even if the politics of the time allows it.
DeleteSerial OLF complainers may be viewed later on as having done serious damages to both individuals and ethnic & lingustic groups.
"Serial OLF complainers may be viewed later on as having done serious damages to both individuals and ethnic & lingustic groups."
DeleteNous ne faisons que respecter la Loi et prenons les mesures nécessaires afin que TOUS s'y conforme.Pour ce qui est des coûts de nos opérations,les agents sont payés à même les revenus des contraventions donc pas une grosse dépense pour l'État Québécois.
@OQLF
DeleteTu ne devrais pas entrer dans les détails sur ce blogue mais tu as raison que les prochaines années s'annoncent relativement payantes.Certains secteurs de Montréal s'annoncent plus payants que d'autres mais une chose est certaine c'est que tous les secteurs représentent des rentrées d'argent non négligeables.
La Loi? You should remember that la Loi has serious repercussions for treason even in l'État Québécois.
DeleteThe time for honoring yourself will son be at an end!
Threats, threats, and more threats. What`s new with you sorry people? You just gonna get the big bad English people, ain't you? Oh revenge is so sweet.
DeleteI really do pitty the insecurity you live with every day.
"I really do pitty the insecurity you live with every day."
DeleteMerci Laurie pour votre compassion.
OQLF and Abrasif 404 are the same guy...he's talking to himself again, LOL!
DeleteI love the way Seppie/101 ou 401/OQLF/Abrasif etc... stubbornly keeps digging his own grave. Discrediting him is like shooting fish in a barrel.
DeleteIn any event, there’s never a peep out of him about how Montreal was the metropolis of Canada for over 3 centuries and how, since the arrival of the PQ, it has stagnated and become impoverished. Today, even Calgary can boast more head offices than us. Let’s just ignore the hundreds of thousands of taxpayers who have voted with their feet, not to mention the countless hundreds of millions that have been forgone. He’s actually proud because of the trivial amount of fines handed out by the OQLF is our new income-earner. It boggles the mind! “We’re #1 in harassing small-business owners... woohoo!!!” Way to go! That’s what’s going to save the delicate French language and culture in North America, all right.
And then, his constant bleating ad nauseum about “respecting the law”... It makes me wonder if he would have told Rosa Parks to just go sit at the back of the bus and be quiet...
Pauvres petits anglos-canadiens de Montréal,victimes de ségrégation...Mon cul!Arrêtez de banaliser et d'essayer de mettre à profit de réelles situations de racisme.Vous ne faites que banaliser ces événements.Vous êtes ridicules.
Delete>It makes me wonder if he would have told Rosa Parks to just go sit at the back of the bus and be quiet...
DeleteAre you kidding? Transposing his worldview to that time and place, Rosa Parks would have been followed home and the following day a bunch of white-hooded supremacists would have shown up in her front yard with a burning cross demanding she whiten her skin. All the Southern newspapers would have run stories about the "black threat".
But what do you want? In the syphilitic mind of hard-core supremacists of any variety, civil rights aren't the ideal to tend toward as much as they are a harbinger of "trouble ahead."
@seppie
DeleteNous sommes les Rosa Parks de ce "pays" sauf que notre révolution a eu lieu dans les années 70.Les nègres blancs?Ça vous dit quelque chose?
Donc le combat devrait être en grande partie terminé en 2012... mais voilà que nos amis extrémistes cherchent à nous diriger tout droit vers une autre révolution. Ya quelque chose qui cloche là-dedans...
DeleteLes Canadiens-Français ont peut-être été les nègres blancs d'Amérique pendant longtemps, à la fois à cause des Anglais qui s'en foutaient (pas assez) d'eux et à cause de leur propre institution religieuse qui elle s'en foutait trop. Peu importe, la Révolution Tranquille était inévitable afin d'égaliser les disparités (fondamentalement économiques beaucoup plus que linguistiques) entre les deux groupes fondateurs de ce pays.
Mais même une révolution justifiée peut vite prendre des allures qui frôlent la folie. Ce fut le cas de la législation et sur-réglementation linguistique qui s'ensuivit, tout comme les propos qui perdurent (aussi réels qu'imaginés) selon lesquels un Canadien-Anglais de Saskatoon et un autre de Charlottetown seraient des copies conformes l'un et l'autre et diamétralement opposés à un Canadien-Français de Saint-Hyacinthe. Ce mensonge de deux groupes monolithiques obscure la réalité tout en surfavorisant un seul volet (à savoir, le volet linguistique) et par le fait même jette par la fenêtre la panoplie et diversité d'opinions, de besoins, d'intérêts, de craintes, et d'opportunités qui nous caractérise en tant que pays. C'est une approche imprudente, négligente, et qui ne sert que les intérêts d'un noyau d'endurcis qui opèrent une prise d'otage tout comme l'avaient fait autrefois les curés et businessmen.
Alors oui, nous francophones avions par le passé été les Rosa Parks de ce pays, mais c'est bien là que la victimisation s'est éteinte. Dès lors, il nous était (et demeure) inutile de recourir à notre propre mouture de l'extrémisme du nationalisme noir.
Désolé, mais on n'a pas besoin de Black Panthers version Québec en 2012. Et on n'a pas non plus besoin d'un Liberia pour les descendants de ces Canadiens-Français aujourd'hui émancipés.
Anonymous at 11:08 am is also Seppie...he's still talking to himself...very dishonest!
Delete@AnonymousApr 7, 2012 11:08 AM
DeleteYep. It tells me that if you are still making references to a dead murderer and FLQ terrorist from the 1960s in 2012, you have a giant chip on your shoulder and are bent on revenge rather than peaceful coexistence.
Can I get a Hallelujah?!
DeleteHallelujah!
Delete@AnonymousApr 9, 2012 09:21 AM
DeleteROFLMAO!!
@AnonymousApr 7, 2012 11:08 AM
Do you think Rosa Parks ever told whites to go sit at the back of the bus, or had laws passed to make it illegal to be white in public, or that whites ought to be half the size of blacks on signs? No, of course not, because she had class and she was secure in her equality. No, it took insecure Quebec nationalists to take similar measures (to which has never been subject to, ever in its history).
So no, you are not the Rosa Parks of this country. Today, it is Anglo-Quebecers who are.
I can't resist... for any WoW fans out there, ROFLMAO!!
DeleteSo...more language inspectors, and all this under Premier John James "Goldilocks" Charest's tutelage. Gee, how federalist a move and how wisely taxpayer dollars are being used at the hands of a supposedly small elite of language xenophobes, ethnocentrics and just small minds.
ReplyDeleteWhy does Premier John James "Goldilocks" Charest so easily surrender to this supposedly small elite? Could it be that in reality he's just using the xenophobes as smoke and mirrors to pick a scapegoat to deceive the English speaking community that in reality, the tyrannous majority of Quebec society simply wants it this way? I cannot believe that after a half century since the Quiet Revolution the tail is still wagging the dog time after time after time. What this fanatical elite wants, it gets with ease and almost no resistance.
I've written many, many times before that the language enforcement is not the product of just fascist elitists, it's what the French speaking element of Quebec society wants. This is just another chapter be in this pathetic never-ending story.
Quebec wastes far more money on language crap than the supposed $114,000 to feed prisoners kosher and halal food. Doesn't Quebec have its own Charter of Human Rights, even though English rights are unjustly restricted and in some cases forbidden? Why Quebec has to have its own Charter of Human Rights is beyond me when the federal government came out with theirs to cover all Canadians...oops...what was I thinking? Quebec has proclaimed itself distinct, and like [American political satirist]Steven Colbert's followers, they are a nation. Colbert refers to his fans as "Nation". Interestingly, this South Carolina-born American pronounces his French family name with a French pronunciation (i.e., "Col-BEAR" and not "Col-BURT").
ReplyDeleteThen again, didn't the Jewish General Hospital once get fined about $7500 once to compensate some yahoo ambulance paramedic because they didn't let him eat the non-kosher lunch her brought with him in the kosher cafeteria? The JGH was founded by and FUNDED by the Jewish community not exclusively for the Jewish community's use. It was built to offer the Jewish community services NEVER offered to the Jewish community such as kosher food and Jewish chaplaincy services. Too, it was an opportunity to circumvent the policy of other hospitals that had strict quotas hiring Jewish medical staff, or not hiring Jews at all. In spite of those objectives, the JGH has never been staffed solely by Jews, and has never turned anyone away requiring hospital services.
The Bouchard-Taylor accommodation malarky strikes again! Oh, and let's not forget the Royal Vic for not letting patients die in French.
Mr. Sauga, I’m not sure what the point that you’re trying to make is. I can only presume you are a former Montrealer who is now living in Mississauga and are keeping track of current events back here in Quebec.
DeleteYou are evidently are making some sort of unclear, mean-spirited dig at Jean Charest by referring to him as John James “Goldilocks” Charest. I hope you do realize that as preposterous as it to increase the OLF instead of hospital staff, for example, a provincial election is on the horizon and after so many years in power, it’s likely that it’s the PQ’s turn next and thus it’s necessary for him to do what he can to shore up support.
The Jewish General Hospital is a very admirable institution that was born out of adversity and responded with a tremendous amount of class. The point you were trying to make with that is very unclear. All I can say is that there always has been and always will be ridiculous and unfortunate incidents that occur not only in Quebec nor in the rest of Canada but all over the world.
Please tell me you know that Stephen Colbert (the actor) is not the same person as his made-up persona, Stephen Colbert (the character). Incidentally, The Colbert Report has a silent T in both "Colbert" and "Report". Again, whatever point you were trying to make is unclear.
If Ontario were the only English-speaking province or state in North America, I’m pretty sure that you would want to defend your own culture/“language crap” as well, regardless of the disagreement we may have with the Quebec has chosen to do things.
>Why Quebec has to have its own Charter of Human Rights is beyond me when the federal government came out with theirs to cover all Canadians...oops...what was I thinking?
DeleteYOU WERE THINKING WRONG.
The distinction between the two has to do with jurisdiction and enforceability and is NOT a particular nationalist/political statement. While the purpose of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms governs state-citizen interactions, the Quebec Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms also governs interactions between citizens (but not to federally-regulated activities in Quebec).
For example, if, as a landlord, I refuse to rent a dwelling to you because you're Jewish or English-speaking, you would claim your Quebec charter rights were being violated, since I'm a landlord (citizen) and not a government entity. If, similarly, Canada still had a law that forced you to keep your kosher bakery closed on Sunday (the Lord's Day, wink, wink), you'd attack that law on the basis of your Canadian Charter rights.
So yes, while there might be overlaps in certain cases (as could happen in many areas of law), that shouldn't be confused with idiotic politically-motivated self-victimizing pettiness. One has to do with how the machine works, the other has to do with whining about what color it is.
Side note:
DeleteThe Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms came into force in 1982, while the Quebec Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms did in 1976 (when the protections and mechanisms afforded by the Canadian Charter were either non-existent or codified in a byzantine array of existing laws).
The more you know.
>Interestingly, this South Carolina-born American pronounces his French family name with a French pronunciation (i.e., "Col-BEAR" and not "Col-BURT").
DeleteSorry I missed this; I happen to be a religious viewer (along with many other news satire programs, oddly enough), although unfortunately not since the show's beginning.
I was curious about this myself a while back and read online that Stephen's father had wanted to change the pronunciation but didn't out of respect for Stephen's grandfather. Stephen underwent something of a funk due to (among other things) losing a brother and father in a plane crash and decided to reinvent himself -- including his name -- in college. I vaguely remember one episode a few years ago in which Stephen had one of his own brothers on the show and asked him how he pronounced their (shared) last name, with the brother saying COL-burt, earning the mock-ire of Stephen.
But if you watch and listen VERY carefully, every now and then, Stephen will lapse back (unwittingly?) into the COL-burt pronunciation himself. This is admittedly extremely rare.
I acknowledge, however, that this is both insanely trivial and that you almost need to be listening for it to notice.
And....... here we go:
Deletehttp://web.archive.org/web/20070106073231/http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/jon_stewart_stephen_colbert_americas_anchors/page/6
The Quebec Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms has, in certain instances, actually been more of a protection against the human rights abuses of Bill 101 than the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
DeleteThe infamous December 1988 Supreme Court of Canada Brown Shoes decision found the Language of Commercial Signs provisions of Bill 101 in violation of freedom of expression in the Canadian charter but in violation of both freedom of expression and equality rights in the Quebec charter. That is because the Quebec charter includes "language" as a prohibited base of discrimination whereas the Canadian charter does not.
However, subsequent to that ruling, in 2005 the Supreme Court stated that even though "language" doesn't exist as a prohibited base in the Canadian charter that it must be considered included.
Yo, speculative feline: You wrote "it’s likely that it’s the PQ’s turn next and thus it’s necessary for him to do what he can to shore up support."
DeleteInteresting...In order for so-called federalist politicians to win, according to you, they have to cater to the bigot of and within the voter. They have to get the Archie Bunker, the Gilles Proulx, the Lionel Groulx in the Québécois pur laine to rise to the surface to get the vote, to bring the worst out of that ilk to win. That's the chickenshit way to appeal to the voter, so what you're telling me is a portion of Québécois pur laine voters are small-minded chickenshits for brains. Not a very appetizing hypothesis on your part. Go back to eating cold mice on foggy mornings. MEOW!
Apparatchik: No, I don't think I have ANYTHING wrong. So what you're saying is the federal AND United Nations Charters of Human Rights and Freedoms contain loopholes that exclude aspects within the Quebec Charter? The fact Quebec has its own Charter of Human Rights when it also has a Charter of the French Language that, when initially brought into law, as a province within Canada, forbade the use of English more often than not makes the Quebec Charter a bloody, sick joke--a complete and utter FARCE!
DeleteNaturally the Quebec Charter of Rights ignores the federal Charter and the United Nations Charter because Quebec has been admonished by the UN statutes so many times, it's trivial. After all, Quebec is a distinct society, a special case that's above the global scheme.
Anyway, the Late Claude Ryan, a self-proclaimed idolator of the rabidly racist Lionel Groulx, when he updated the PLQ minifesto earlier in the new millennium, stated the rights of collectivity of Quebec society prevails over the rights of the individual, hence Bill 101 and ugly like legislation in Quebec can run roughshod over the minority Anglophone.
Good for you, Apparatchik, good for you!
Tony K.: You should have been a lawyer. You seem to take pleasure in dissecting laws, but despite your claim the Quebec Charter is a more effective crusader in the fight than the federal charter, the fights by the Quebec Government against the minorities don't stop. The Editor months ago wrote of how the Montreal Police regularly and deliberately use intimidation tactics against the minorities, primarily people of colours to keep said folks in fear of the police. Wouldn't that be a blatant and flagrant abuse of ANY and EVERY human rights decree or law EVER written since the beginning of time? The Quebec Charter is one of the most hypocritical pieces of legislation ever written by a government that regularly violates tha damn thing.
Delete>what you're saying is the federal AND United Nations Charters of Human Rights and Freedoms contain loopholes that exclude aspects within the Quebec Charter?
DeleteEr... no. I'm saying that all of these lofty human rights documents have their own fields and scopes of applicability as well as their restrictions. I didn't make that up. You need to distinguish sovereignty as a notion of jurisdictional authority from the euphemism for separation-independence-maybe-with-a-side-order-of-whatever-it-takes-to-get-a-OUI served up by the separatists.
>The fact Quebec has its own Charter of Human Rights when it also has a Charter of the French Language that, when initially brought into law, as a province within Canada, forbade the use of English more often than not makes the Quebec Charter a bloody, sick joke--a complete and utter FARCE!
Hold your horses, cowboy. If you look into the jurisprudence, you'll see that the one was actually used to impugn the other.
>Naturally the Quebec Charter of Rights ignores the federal Charter and the United Nations Charter because Quebec has been admonished by the UN statutes so many times, it's trivial.
What a careless attempt at manipulating language, logic and reason. Way to go, hat trick.
Quebec human rights legislation doesn't ignore the Federal one (it functionally can't!). And it's not just because the U.N. adopts a resolution, for example, that every country in the world will automatically be bound by it. If that were the case, there'd be no quibbling over Kyoto, for example.
>After all, Quebec is a distinct society, a special case that's above the global scheme.
That's a cute argument in the face of it (right up there with "I don't need to learn math because I'm pretty"). The fact is, even hookers, heroine dealers, and gang members, and powerful CEOs need to cover their asses every now and then. Nobody's invincible.
>the Late Claude Ryan, a self-proclaimed idolator of the rabidly racist Lionel Groulx, when he updated the PLQ minifesto earlier in the new millennium, stated the rights of collectivity of Quebec society prevails over the rights of the individual
This was the same moron who thought anglophone schoolkids should be dumped into immersion programs earlier than francophones because the anglophone kids could apparently handle it (but what, the francophones couldn't?!?!?!). I take most of what our politicians say with a grain of salt. Whatever bullshit we tell ourselves now will only catch up to us later. If that weren't true, we'd still be pastoral catholics cranking out 12 kids apiece.
>Bill 101 and ugly like legislation in Quebec can run roughshod over the minority Anglophone.
I'm more liable to criticize Quebec's historical WASPy English-language community for not having fought back as much as they ought to have. Their a policy of appeasement works to Montreal's, Quebec's, and Canada's detriment just as much as the hard-core extremists on Vigile and elsewhere. If there's anything I find comforting, it's that many young people are increasingly multilingual and just don't give a shit. There may be hope for realizing a healthy, functioning, bilingual ideal here yet. Looking around me, I have more reason than ever to believe this to be possible. Take that, Westmount Rhodesians and insecure French-Canadian paramilitaries.
>Good for you, Apparatchik, good for you!
Thanks, Sauga. We need all the encouragement we can get.
>In order for so-called federalist politicians to win, [...] they have to cater to the bigot of and within the voter. They have to get the Archie Bunker, the Gilles Proulx, the Lionel Groulx in the Québécois pur laine to rise to the surface to get the vote, to bring the worst out of that ilk to win. That's the chickenshit way to appeal to the voter
DeleteTo ever get wide appeal, you need to have wide appeal. That's why sooner or later, everybody tries to go mainstream. The PQ could have never come to power as RIN; even Quebec Independence can't be officially sold as open season to send non-French-Canadians to extermination camps. The discourse needs to be moderated or it won't sell enough for either side to win.
"I still want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks"
-- Howard Dean, 2003
>Interesting...In order for so-called federalist politicians to win,[...] they have to cater to the bigot of and within the voter. They have to get the Archie Bunker, the Gilles Proulx, the Lionel Groulx in the Québécois pur laine to rise to the surface to get the vote, to bring the worst out of that ilk to win. That's the chickenshit way to appeal to the voter ...
DeleteI agree with you 100% Mr. Sauga. At some point, you have to stand for something. If Jean Charest had worked on the economy for all his years in office, he would have actually accomplished something and he couldn't have been more unpopular than he is now. Instead, he is trying to be more "nationalist" than the nationalists by increasing the number of language police. He will lose that battle. If the people want "nationalists" in office who are out to diminish the English language, they will vote for the real deal, the PQ.
If he had a sufficient amount of brains, he would focus on the economy but after so many years piling more onto the debt, I don't think that would work.
So, I suppose he might go out and try to get the vote by sticking with the increases for university students in Quebec, so that they pay their full share. That's his only way of actually having a chance of winning the election or at least not being blown out by the PQ and CAQ.
Mr. Sauga, you seem to be a very angry and unhappy person, on top of feeling the need to dish out ad hominem attacks. I do hope you are doing something to deal with that.
DeleteAnyhow, I never said that I agreed with Charest's pandering, but it seems to be an unfortunate reality in politics. Of course, if we disagree with him, we are all free to vote for another federalist party... oh wait, there isn't any!
Well...It seems I've struck a collective nerve with at least two respondants to my opinions. Actually, I'm delighted, esp. with Appartchik because I always find his insight interesting and thoughtful, even if I disagree with some of what (s)he writes. It DOES make for constructive conversation.
DeleteFirst, I'll respond to the feline of the chaise longue: What should I be doing to deal with "that"? What are you, Camille Laurin's ghost or clone? You're placing those who think like me collectively on the chaise as traitors, or emotionally disturbed? Interesting, that's how the communists assessed their dissidents in the former USSR. The late Mordechai Richler eloquently stated his assessment of Josef Mengele....er...I mean...Camille Laurin (so hard to tell them apart). Richler called it shock therapy for the Anglophone collective in Quebec. I'm entitled to my opinion, and if you have a problem with it, that's between YOU and YOUR paychiatrist.
My current problem is with Quebec getting equalization payments when all the so-called federalists are fed-bashing and playing juvenile tricks à la PQ and assorted Anglo haters who would relish dropping the guillotine blade on English speaking necks. Enough time for you!
Roger R. (and Apparatchik): Thanks for your support of my views, but I must state that App threw a pitch that tempers some of what I wrote, i.e., "I'm more liable to criticize Quebec's historical WASPy English-language community for not having fought back as much as they ought to have." App isn't wrong, and that lacklustre response to the language legislation by our own community is the raison d'être I left Quebec.
DeleteI've mentioned many, many times before my parents and their contemporaries talked a good fight, but when the crunch came down, there was deafening silence. Had Howard Galganov entered the fray 20 years before he did, he may have been able to rally the troops back then, but unfortunately, Galganov was too little too late.
Oh my... you really aren't helping the cause, Mr. Sauga... It is clear now that you don't wish to do anything about your anger, which is completely misplaced.
DeleteTraitors? Not at all, we're on the same side... as unfortunate as it may seem to appear. For one thing, it's obvious that Mordecai Richler was infinitely more knowledgeable about the situation here than you are... I'm not Jewish but merely the fact that you mention him in the same sentence as Josef Mengele completely discredits you and makes me embarrassed to even respond to your drivel. I'm actually ashamed to think that you're on our side.
I understand about the argument regarding equalization payments (which is mysteriously absent from public discussion here) but I imagine that there are regulations and that these are being followed. Fed-bashing? Guillotine? *Facepalm*
Apparachik: Lots of interesting, cogent points. I don't agree with all of them. You told me to hold my horses re how sick Bill 101 is esp. when The Quebec Charter of Rights counteracted the former legislation. Even the Editor of this blog interestingly pointed out a few blogs ago how Bill 101 was rigged as a plot to be challenged left, right and centre with the seppies at each challenge mouthing "I told you so, I TOLD YOU SO, I TOLD YOU SO!" Isn't that a waste of time and resources coming up with redundant laws?
DeleteWhen it comes to language in Quebec, no expense is to be spared, and THAT was a major, major reason too that I left Quebec. It's a colossal waste of the taxpayer's money, and I knew by leaving for Ontario, I'd get a better bang for my buck. I was not disappointed. I'm in my 28th year here in Ontario. Our roads and parks, compared to Quebec (save Hampstead and Westmount) are in fare more pristine condition, our hospitals have far more advanced apparatus and medical facilities, and it's still possible to get a doctor (although sadly it's getting increasingly harder here, too). As my late mother told me many, many years ago when I bitched endlessly about godforsaken Quebec, she told me there is no perfection anywhere. Her exact words. After a few years in Ontario, my rebuttal to my mother was while she was right about there being no perfection in Ontario, it was miles and miles closer to perfection than anything I experienced in Quebec, and I still stand behind my rebuttal.
As for your response to Lionel Groulx adolator, Claude Ryan (as Minister of Education), and his outta space remark about young French brains being morons compared to young English brains with respect to learning second language at an earlier age, too much salt creates high blood pressure.
Claude Ryan's opinions and writings were dependent on which way the wind was blowing on a given day, but Mordecai Richler and I both relished his confession that Anglophones were superior to Francophones. Reed Scowen didn't let that shot go by unnoticed either.
@ Mr. Sauga
DeleteI find it interesting that you say that one of the reasons you left Quebec is because English-speakers don't stand up for their rights but if I recall correctly (too much time spent on this blog I suppose), you hadn't done anything yourself, when you were living here. Pot calling the kettle black, no?
One of the things that pisses me off about your posts is your Quebec-bashing. (I haven't seen it recently to tell you the truth) Now, trust me, if something is wrong with Quebec society, by all write what you have to write (i.e. corrupt construction industry, waste of taxpayers money, bad roads, etc) but sometimes you write things such as "I hope Quebec sinks" or we should kick Quebec out.
Now, I know as a former Quebecker (Montrealer?), you, as many former Quebeckers, may not be happy that you were basically driven out of this place by language hardliners/separatists. So, I would enjoy attacks on them rather than on ALL Quebeckers or ALL francophones. Of course, you can do what you want to do. I am just saying I would enjoy what you have to write more if you were only to set your guns on them.
As for Bill 101, it may have been used as a method to boost separation, because Camille Laurin knew it would be challenged in court, and I DO think it is too harsh but if I was to look from the francophone side of things, it did help turn the tide to allow francophones to have better economic opportunities.
Now, there are many things in Bill 101 that should be changed but I do believe that francophones should be able to be served in French, for example.
We, as anglophones, always speak of the might of the Montreal economy up until around the 70's. However, most francophones did not benefit from that and they form the majority in the province. Now, I don't know if it was because of the church, lack of education, and/or because the richest and most powerful business leaders were anglophones, or a combination of the three but the Quiet Revolution and Bill 101 was necessary to help turn the tide and even things out.
"...and let's not forget the Royal Vic for not letting patients die in French."
ReplyDeleteUne patiente de l'hôpital Royal Victoria doit engager une traductrice!!!
http://tinyurl.com/744a9ow
"Une patiente de l'hôpital Royal Victoria doit engager une traductrice!!!"
ReplyDeleteShe has many solutions:
1) Pay the translator at her own expenses
2) Study English
3) Go to a francophone hospital
Sorry, but there are NO excuses for a lack of knowledge of English in 2012! Nobody should be allowed to get away with that, even in Montreal!
WA
First of all, I do believe that in a city like Montreal, access to both English and French should be a very simple thing to get.
DeleteBut, I do have a few questions as to the accusation that the Royal Vic didn't offer French to this guy. Is this guy using his Mother's illness as an excuse to drive a anti-english agenda in what is suppose to be a a bilingual Hospital? Is he in a stable state of mind due to the stress of his Mothers illness to be correctly perceiving his point of view that he is not getting communications in French? Is he himself suffering any mental illness himself?
Why is the focus on the conduct of the accused and not the accuser?
Which also brings up another bigger question. Do the Serial Language complainers who file complaints with the OQLF suffer from a mental disorder? If so, does the OQLF puts itself in a very "questionable" position of taking complaints from such people? Does the OQLF then a become a instrument of expression for the complainers who may suffering a mental disorder? Is the budget of the OQLF based on total number of complaints? Or based on valid complaints?
Just a few questions!
Sorry, but there are NO excuses for a lack of knowledge of French in Quebec! Nobody should be allowed to get away with that, even in Montreal!
Delete"She has many solutions:"
DeleteVous n'avez pas lu l'article n'est-ce pas?Elle n'avait pas le choix,pas de place disponible dans les hôpitaux Québécois.
Abrasif 404,
DeleteVous n'avez pas lu l'article n'est-ce pas?Elle n'avait pas le choix,pas de place disponible dans les hôpitaux Québécois.
Why is that? French hospitals are in worse condition than the English ones? Not enough medical professionals want to work in the French hospitals? More francophones are sick? Or what I suspect is that French hospitals do not have the capability to treat her particular illness?
Whatever the reason is, do you not think that it reflects badly to the competence of the francophone community?
"Vous n'avez pas lu l'article n'est-ce pas?Elle n'avait pas le choix,pas de place disponible dans les hôpitaux Québécois"
DeleteIl n'y a rien à lire ou à comprendre dans l'article.
Il lui restent donc toujours deux choix parmi celles déjà mentionnées :
1) Engager un interprète à ses frais
2) Étudier l'anglais
WA
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteGood questions, indeed, but only one fact does matter: English is, should be and will be a MUST. Only a fool does choose not to speak English in 2012!
ReplyDeleteWA
Good questions, indeed, but only one fact does matter: French is, should be and will be a MUST. Only a fool does choose not to speak French in Quebec in 2012!
ReplyDeleteNice try bigot, but you fail to understand that you forcing it on people is only making us hate it. Even Francophones like me, hate Taliban French!
DeleteNous n'y pourrons jamais rien changer,je crois que vous vous détestiez vous-même dès le départ.N'est-ce pas...Elvis?
Delete"Nice try bigot, but you fail to understand that you forcing it on people is only making us hate it. Even Francophones like me, hate...French!"
DeleteTss tss...Triste :(
Triste... mais néanmoins vrai.
DeleteEt d'ailleurs, continuer à prétendre qu'il s'agit de la haine de soi si quelqu'un n'est pas d'accord avec des mesures coercitives est carrément répréhensible.
Whatever...typical disillusioned unilingual franco-crackpot. Whatever...whatever...anyway, reality is more powerful than your franco-fantasy world. BTW: changing my comments does not change the real necessity of English. Denial is not a solution.
ReplyDeleteWA
"Whatever...typical disillusioned unilingual franco-crackpot"
DeleteUnilingual?Êtes-vous bien certain? :)
I love the way francos here so often ignore the gist of a comment in order to pick at nits.
DeleteBe indulgent. They're out of gas and it's all they've got to go on. Very often it's what they don't have the courage to say that outs them more than the idiot things that they do.
DeleteP.S.: kindly avoid honoring this kind of idiocy by intimating that this is typical of "francos here". If anything we need our media and politicians to quit fearmongering for their own benefit and get our language legislation in tune with how our mainstream people really feel.
I was referring to typical responses made by those "here" on this blog, not "here" in Quebec... but yes, that's good advice.
Delete"Is this guy using his Mother's illness as an excuse to drive a anti-english agenda"
ReplyDeletePathétique imbécile!On atteint ici des sommets d'imbécilité.Certains anglos me répugne au plus haut point.
I have never had any problem getting French service in any Montreal hospital, especially considering everyone has to undergo a French competency exam. It was a language hardliner who is making up stories.
Delete"Abrasif", get a life.
In relation to the hospital story, Mario Beaulieu and the St. John the Baptist Society want that the English or bilingual status of medical institutions in Quebec be revoked.
ReplyDeleteWhat these Beaulieu types can't comprhend is if the corner the anglos and allos on the wall they will fight back. Partition really scares them because they would not be able to deal with losing all control of any part of Quebec. Imagine municipalties in the west Island and comittees in the majority of districts hold a referendum on "soverignty association" with the province of Quebec. They would not understand what they can do to counter that.
DeleteDutrizac actually says "f*ck les avocats" on-air... stay classy, Benoît! Maybe you'll start getting the hint why hospitals don't bother calling you back. Lucky for him nobody will stoop to making a petty complaint to the CRTC as some people are so wont to do with the OQLF.
DeleteThese two are out of control, picking on one unfortunate incident just to fan the flames when by and large, everyone agrees that there is no problem whatsoever.
@Félidé
DeleteVotre ami Gendron est complètement fou...Quel kid Kodak!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxCJw-PWcKk
J'aime bien le commentaire sur YouTube: "Gendron comme Premier Ministre"
DeleteIl dit les choses comme il les voit et il ne se gêne pas de le faire.
I`m going to state the obvious but someone has to say it.
ReplyDelete43 more OQLF inspectors, 26 hired a few months ago. The militants are quite happy about this, taxes well spent they say. Bravo!
Perhaps the money could have been better spent on 69 more teachers, nurses, doctors?
@Laurie
DeleteQue diriez-vous d'investissements dans des programmes de francisation pour que les futurs résidents venus de l'extérieur s'affichent dans la langue officielle du Québec,ce qui aurait pour effet de diminuer progressivement les interventions (Couteuses) d'organismes gouvernementaux tel que l'OQLF ?
There are plenty of 'francisation' programs for newcomers. And yet these immigrants, or imports as you looove to call us, end up speaking both English and French and *gasp* we can choose which language to speak in public and commercial life.
Delete"we can choose which language to speak in public and commercial life."
DeleteLa vie est belle alors,je savais que nous allions enfin trouver un terrain d'entente.
Enfin l'o.q.l.f va avoir des dents,Yeaaahhh!!!Attention à vos fesses les ang...lais.J'ai failli dire un autre mot :P
ReplyDeletewrong, no matter the OQLF does, english will still be around...
Delete"wrong, no matter the OQLF does, english will still be around..."
DeleteMais ce ne sera pas gratuit.Les commerçants devront calculer des coûts supplémentaires dans leur budget Publicitaire.En passant,je n'ai absolument rien à redire contre l'affichage en anglais.
their plans to re-enforce the french language will FAIL once again as always.
DeleteEffectivement ce sera encore un "fail" mais personne ne pourra nous accuser de ne pas avoir essayé.
DeleteDifficile de lire tes interventions, Seppie, et conclure que tu es pro-Francophone.
DeleteTu es pour la haine de tout ce qui est anglophone.
Mais comme tu carbures à la haine, permets-moi de te faire ce simple voeu:
que tes enfants grandissent un jour, délaissent ton mode de vie et partent en croisade pour un Québec officiellement bilingue.
Souhaiter qu'ils deviennent colonisés et unilingues anglophones n'aurait pas été suffisamment humiliant pour l'hystérique intolérant que tu es.
"délaissent ton mode de vie et partent en croisade pour un Québec officiellement bilingue."
DeleteJ'ai un fils et il fait parti des Jeunes Patriotes du Québec(JPQ).Je serais le premier surpris si il commençait à faire la promotion de l'anglais au Québec.Ceci dit,on ne sait jamais ce que l'avenir nous réserve.
Like father like son. Apple doesn`t fall far from the tree. How quaint.
Delete"It reminds me of the rednecks you see in the US"
DeleteVous ne connaissez pas votre canada Laurie.Quelle province veut conserver le régistre des armes à feux?Les rednecks ne sont pas présents que chez vos voisins préférés.Évitez d'amalgamer les sujets.La protection de notre culture et de notre langue n'a rien à voir avec les rednecks et encore moins avec les nazis.Vous tirez dans la mauvaise direction.
>La protection de notre culture et de notre langue n'a rien à voir avec les rednecks et encore moins avec les nazis.Vous tirez dans la mauvaise direction.
DeleteLa protection de notre culture et de notre langue a moins à voir avec des faux-scandales médiatiques et encore moins avec des escouades de goon/manifesteux perpétuellement offensés, tels les JPQ. Vous aussi (par vos mots, gestes, et par ce que vous cautionnez), tirez dans la mauvaise direction. Et en même temps, vous aliénez ceux d'entre nous qui adoptons une position beaucoup plus pragmatique et inclusive.
"faux-scandales médiatiques"
DeleteSi nous disions sonnettes d'alarme?Si tous les anglos et allos de Montréal sont bilingues et même trilingues selon vos rêves les plus fous,pour quelles raisons sont-ils incapables de s'adapter à leur environnement francophones?
D'abord ce sont, oui, de faux scandales médiatiques. Ce ne sont en rien des sonnettes d'alarme.
DeleteRegardez à qui on s'attaque: des gens nouvellement installés en ville, et des cas d'espèce ici et là, sans oublier notre fief mal-aimé, le West Island. C'est d'ailleurs toujours le même patron avec vous autres: étranger->suspicion->peur->voyoucratie->lynchage médiatique. Puis ensuite vous vous félicitez entre vous pour une excellente "job", tout en décriant en public une "tendance inquiétante" qui n'est qu'une boucle de rétroaction mesquine que vous avez créée vous-mêmes. Voyez en quoi la comparaison avec les chemises brune n'est pas déplacée.
Le plus triste, c'est que vous savez que vous vous attaquez à des cas d'espèce pour en faire des exemples -- tout comme des cas d'intimidation scolaire. Ensuite, vous arguez que vous ne voulez que faire respecter la "loi". Mais en même temps vos groupes de pression se mettent à hurler du moment où on pense même à réformer (du côté égalitaire) la même loi. Ce sont des gestes intéressés, hypocrites, et égoïstes, qui ne servent que vos propres fins exclusivistes tordues. Ces immigrants et anglophones finissent par s'acculturer et leurs descendants deviennent éventuellement des citoyens modèles. Et bien plus modèles que vous.
Et si on enquêtait, par exemple, sur le nombre de francophones d'origine Canadienne-Française dans Ahuntsic ou bien Hochelaga qui seraient incapable de me servir en anglais dans des supermarchés de ces quartiers-là? Gageons que les chiffres ne seraient guère plus encourageants (sinon pire).
Deuxièmement, l'environnement montréalais n'est pas francophone. Il s'agit d'un environnement organiquement bilingue que vous passez votre temps soit à décrier, soit à faussement démentir. Pourquoi les voyoucrates sont-ils incapables de s'adapter à cet environnement qui est pourtant naturellement bilingue?
Pour chaque cas de faux scandale médiatique, je vous parie qu'il y a d'innombrables cas d'intégration harmonieuse, de compréhension, et d'ouverture. Le cancer, c'est bien du monde comme vous. Et des cancers, soit ça tue l'organisme au complet, soit ça prend une incision suivie d'une extraction peu cérémonieuse.
Montréal est à l'intérieur du Québec et le Québec à l'intérieur du Canada. Nous sommes et demeurerons le carrefour deux grandes traditions et langues du monde. Intégrez-vous ou faites-vous intégrer.
"Le plus triste, c'est que vous savez que vous vous attaquez à des cas d'espèce pour en faire des exemples"
DeleteSi vous faites référence au Nigérien,avez-vous entendu ses propos racistes sur les ondes de du 98,5?Il est au Québec depuis plus de vingt ans et pas un seul mot en français pour ses clients majoritairement francophone.Ma famille est en région et le phénomène des dépanneurs et restaurants tenus par des allophones trilingues sauf pour le français,commence à prendre de l'expansion.J'en suis témoin régulièrement,pas besoin des médias.je dois exiger du Chinois qu'il me serve...In French please.
>Si vous faites référence au Nigérien,avez-vous entendu ses propos racistes sur les ondes de du 98,5?
DeleteAvez-vous entendu l'harcèlement agressif de la part de son interlocutrice qui a donné lieu à tels propos? Normalement quand on me dit "je ne parle pas ta langue" j'essaie de trouver un autre moyen de communiquer qui fonctionne, et quand il devient évident que toute communication est impossible (même gestuelle), je dis merci et je m'en vais ailleurs.
>Il est au Québec depuis plus de vingt ans et pas un seul mot en français pour ses clients majoritairement francophone.
"pas un seul mot"... pas tellement vrai; il semble connaitre assez bien ses chiffres et d'autres éléments de base. Moi ce que je trouve étonnant (et hypocrite) c'est que ça ne semble pas trop avoir posé de problème pour ses clients majoritairement francophones avant que 98,5 s'en mêle pour des raisons de cotes d'écoutes et que des voyous enragés s'en soient appropriés pour contribuer aux efforts pré-électoraux du Parti Québécois.
De plus, un enregistrement fait pour ses propres fins semblerait être légal; la diffusion non-autorisée comme en a fait l'émission pourrait être attaquée.
>Ma famille est en région et le phénomène des dépanneurs et restaurants tenus par des allophones trilingues sauf pour le français,commence à prendre de l'expansion.
Qu'elle soit en région ou non, ta famille est au Canada depuis au moins la conquête; faire semblant qu'elle a le luxe d'ignorer l'importance de l'anglais est inexcusable pour un blanc d'Amérique. Quant à moi, je suis prêt à donner le bénéfice du doute à l'immigrant dont les enfants seront certainement capable de s'exprimer dans les langues de Sun Tzu, Shakespeare, et Molière.
>J'en suis témoin régulièrement,pas besoin des médias.je dois exiger du Chinois qu'il me serve...In French please.
Tes interventions sur ce blogue suggèrent que tu interprètes l'environnement linguistique dans lequel nous vivons d'un oeil insécurisé, insécurisant, et trahissent une approche et attitude trop sur la défensive. Ton mantra semble être français-d'abord-français-suprême-tous-les-autres-sont-des-ennemis-maléfiques. Tu t'insurges pour tout et pour rien, et ton style de commentaires-choc semble dépeindre un individu atteint de la variante francophone du stéréotype de l'angry white male, et franchement je ne comprends pas pourquoi. Si seulement tu te donnais la peine de comprendre l'approche, l'attitude et la flexibilité de ceux que tu considères être (à tort et fort pompeusement, à mon humble avis) "les grands ennemis du peuple québécois", tu te rendrais compte que ce n'est pas par dés écrits polémiques, ni en manifestant devant un resto ou encore en dénonçant un commerçant qu'on atteindra une harmonie sociale collective. À moins que tu ne veuilles pas qu'on atteigne cette même harmonie sociale que dans la mesure où elle complètement, uniquement, immanquablement à ton image.
Le purisme auquel tu sembles adhérer n'existe même pas ailleurs sur notre continent à majorité anglophone. Arrête donc.
D'abord on appelle NigériAN quelqu'un qui vient du Nigeria; un NigeriEN vient de Niger. (Un vrai amateur de la langue française se donnerait la peine de vérifier la nuance avant de se mettre à bloguer).
DeleteJ'ai bien entendu ses propos. Et rappelons que le propriétaire du dépanneur en question a d'abord été harcelé au téléphone, ce qui représente une provocation sérieuse. La mauvaise foi de son interlocutrice est manifeste, et à sa place j'aurais dit pire. Notons que monsieur parle un français de base, ce qui n'a d'ailleurs jamais posé de grand problème pour sa clientèle majoritairement francophone avant ce faux-drame concocté par des extrémistes à la recherche de cotes d'écoutes et de voyous toujours prêts pour un affrontement qu'ils récupéreront en prophétie auto-réalisatrice en soutien au Parti Québécois et au renforcement des lois linguistiques.
Ça fait depuis la conquête que ta famille en région devrait comprendre pourquoi l'anglais occupe la place qu'il occupe. L'étalement urbain et le temps vont faire que ce ne sont pas uniquement des blancs d'origine Canadienne-Française qui peupleront à tout jamais ces régions. Plutôt que redoubler de xénophobie, il serait mieux de vous intégrer à la réalité du continent nord-américain tout en aidant aux autres à s'intégrer chez vous. C'est une lame à deux tranchants. Vous vous ferez service en comprenant qu'éventuellement tous ont leur part à faire; pour certains, c'est apprendre à parler français, pour d'autres (comme les vôtres), ce sera d'être ouvert d'esprit à la réalité contre laquelle on ne pourrait jamais légiférer.
Il suffit d'abandonner votre attitude de nous-sommes-assiégés-donc-on-foutra le bordel-pour-tous-les-autres et de jouer plus la carte de l'entregent.
Seppie, si c'est pas trop indiscret, de quelle région/ville tu parles exactement?
DeleteSherbooke
DeletePlato in his Politeia says that you can know the same through the same. In our case an old loser (father) and a new loser (son). 1 plus 1 is ALWAYS 2.
DeleteWA
By the way I did my first interview on radio this Thursday afternoon on CJAD in Montreal about Bill 101 I was a bit nervous.
ReplyDeleteWhere's the link to the interview?
Editor speaks on Aaron Rand Show
DeleteClick the play button on the podcast that was posted 4/5/2012 6:50:00 PM
You can hear the portion with the Editor and Brent Tyler starting at around the 12:08 minute remaining part of the podcast to 5:15 remaining mark.
I miss Aaron Rand being morning man on Q92. Totally irrelevant, but I just felt I had to say that.
DeleteAlot of people feel the same way. Him and Tasso were a great tandem. However, he has become very good at interviewing and giving his opinion on CJAD. On the same podcast, he speaks to that Nadeau kid who is running around with his minions blocking bridges etc and I like the points Aaron makes. The only thing is that he is on in the afternoon. Oh well, life's not perfect, lol.
DeleteOh and not to nitpick or anything, I think it's called the Beat now, not Q92. Fagstein has an article about the new station:
Fagstein
And something about the language police:
Language cops to be armed
Don't laugh. It may become reality one day!
>Oh and not to nitpick or anything, I think it's called the Beat now, not Q92.
DeleteIs that what the cool kids are calling it now? ;-)
I knew about the name change; my reference was deliberately period-specific, even though I'm a bit too young to remember much from the CFQR days. Not that I listen or listened to much radio to begin with.
>And something about the language police
Armed or not, prank or not, the battle for language equality is not about guns or violence at all. It's the ultimate way to combat state power encroaching on freedom of expression.
Civil disobedience, passive or active, in the name of equal language rights isn't wrong. The pen, after all, IS mightier than the sword. And what's worth fighting for in Cornwall is worth fighting for in Laval, and vice versa.
No disagreement with you about violence being involved. It was just an April Fool's joke that Fagstein had posted on his website that I found funny, lol.
DeleteAs for the pen being mightier than the sword, when you look at the form that is used to write a complaint to the OQLF, it seems you don't have to put your name on it. I gather that from what The Editor of NDOA had posted about a woman that send in about 200 complaints.
You know it would be really horrible if someone came along and sent in a few thousand unfounded complaints as an act of civil disobedience. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating anyone do that. I am just saying that it would be really horrible...
>No disagreement with you about violence being involved. It was just an April Fool's joke that Fagstein had posted on his website that I found funny, lol.
DeleteI realize that. I'm just not a fan of entertaining the idea of arming pencil-pushing bureaucrats. Also, it'd introduce an interesting slippery slope, since we'd have to talk about other groups wanting to be armed as well: teachers, taxi drivers, convenience store owners, hospital staff. There is ridiculously sublime just as there can be sublimely ridiculous.
> You know it would be really horrible if someone came along and sent in a few thousand unfounded complaints as an act of civil disobedience.
It would be better to thank Quebec businesses like Brault & Martineau, Rona, and Club Piscine for courting an English-speaking clientele by advertising to them in English and also to write to all their management levels directly and ask for more bilingual signage. Many such stores already do this, which I think is great. Doing it more, even within the current provisions of the law, would be entirely legitimate as well as bode well for bilingual harmony.
Besides, what better and direct way to encourage speakers of either language to improve their skills in the other than by having bilingual signage visible and accessible to all? I even think this ought to eventually become the norm across the country. If most of our manufacturers already have bilingual packaging, then why not...?
A fanatic comment on the comment board of the JdeM article about living in Montreal in English.
ReplyDeleteI agree 100%.
Okanada
Je suis vraiment fatigue de lire des articles concernant les langues. Bien sur que c'est possible de vivre a Montreal sans savoir un seul mot en francais, mais les possibilites de trouver un emploi bien remunere sont presque impossibles. Je suis un allophone et je vois avec tristese que l'anglophobie est toujours presente. Meme si un anglo est completement bilingue, ne et grandi ici, ils ont toujours traites comme de citoyens de deuxieme classe. L'anglais n'est pas une menace a la langue francaise et jamais l'a ete, si c'etait ca le cas le Quebec aurait devenu completement anglophone depuis longtemps. La seul raison pour laquelle ce sort d'articles existe c'est just pour nourrir la haine entre anglos et francos et comme ca convaincre aux quebecois que la souveranite c'est la seul facon de sauver la lange.
I meant to say fantastic comment, not fanatic comment.
DeleteTerrific! This is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be said out loud, as much as possible. Although, I would hope the original comment didn't contain all those spelling mistakes. ;-)
DeletePas si mal que ça quand même,j'ai déjà vu pire même chez des collégiens pure-laine.Pour une fois que Adski se montre un peu plus sympathique,soyons un peu plus indulgents et laissons tomber les critiques sévères en ce qui a trait aux quelques erreurs grammaticales que contient son texte.En passant,la deuxième partie de son commentaire (11:12 AM)est presque impeccable.
DeleteGood to see you back Seppie. I remember that you like cartoons and I thought your "Young Patriots of Quebec" son might enjoy some golden oldies. Nothing like the thirties...
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du1syOtE3K4&feature=fvsr
Vous aimez le cinéma américain je crois...Pfff!
DeleteOH CEASARS!...MDR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKUDRW9EA2c&feature=related
Saskatkatoon????...MDR!!!
Another great comment.
ReplyDeleteMGagne3
Ce qui se passe est tout à fait normal. J'ai 35 ans, j'ai étudié en français toute ma vie. Maintenant que je suis à Montréal et que je travaille, j'ai à utiliser l'anglais très souvent. Pour pouvoir travailler et réussir une carrière, l'anglais est un incontournable. Nous sommes une petite île dans une mer anglophone. Comment prospérer si on ne peut pas parler avec ses voisins? Les jeunes ne savent plus écrire sans faute et ils consomment des films et des séries télé en anglais car les traductions sont trop mauvaises. Allez au cinéma et vous verrez que la moitié des films présentés le sont en version orginale anglaise. Cessons de crier au drame et apprenons la langue! L'anglais devrait être beaucoup plus présent à l'école afin d'aider les jeunes pour le futur. L'anglais c'est la langue des affaires. Soyons réalistes et ne soyons pas étonnés de cet article. C'est ce que tout le monde savait sans le dire. Le français sera encore là dans bien des années, soyez sans crainte
You know, it might be helpful for some us to post a comment or two over there... it might help to counter the almost unchallenged anti-anglo vitriol that is being published rather than preaching to the choir over here.
DeleteGovernment attempts at francicizing non-existent places names such as “District Griffin”, rather than the historically-accurate Griffintown, make me laugh and cry at the same time.
ReplyDeleteI understand that once upon a time, in English, Rosemont used to be Rosemount. Thank goodness common sense has prevailed and Mile End is not “La-fin-du-mile”. I’ve heard foreign students at McGill mistakenly refer to “Pins Ave.” instead of Pine Ave. My father’s generation had funny names like “St. Denny” for “St-Denis”, “Gene Manse” for “Jeanne-Mance” and “Deleppy” for “De L’Épée”... oh and “Park Ave.” for “l’Avenue du Parc”, “St. Lawrence” for “St. Laurent” and “St. Urban” for “St. Urbain”... wait a minute, those are still around!
The current crop of made-up names started with, I believe, calling the West Island the completely made-up translation, “L’Ouest-de-Île”. I’m sure most of us know that in English, it has always been “St. John’s Rd.” rather than the made-up name, “Boul. St-Jean”. The most egregious example is the historic, centuries-old name of Lakeshore Road now being declared to be the made-up “chemin Bord-du-lac”. I’ve even heard of anglos referring to it as “Boardulack”. Yikes! As Yannick says, have the courage of your convictions and be proud of your culture!
I’ve also noticed examples of petty street name changing, besides the obvious Dorchester Blvd. change to boul. René-Lévesque, in spite of the fact that it was Guy Carleton, 1st Baron Dorchester, who was responsible for ensuring the continuity of French in the British colony and who should be applauded rather than vilified by francos.
The recent street name change of historic “Richmond St.” in Point St. Charles to “rue de la Sucrerie” is a case in point.
I recall that until recently, the street signs for The Boulevard in Westmount read “The Boulevard”. I don’t know when they were changed to read “Le Boulevard”.
Despite the city’s self-proclaimed dedication to toponomical accuracy, for many years the street sign on the corner of University St. and Pine Ave. read “rue Université” rather than the correct name, “rue University”. In an obvious fit of pique, it was eventually corrected with a sticker over the incorrect character, although it was pasted backward to make it look as awkward and ugly as possible.
Sir George-Étienne Cartier is not spelled with an S since his parents named him after King George III and yet in Verdun, street signs still mistakenly read “Square Georges-Étienne-Cartier”.
Is anybody surprised that these mistakes always seem to be in favour of French?
Another example is that of Mountain St. in downtown Montreal. I have often heard that this street was not named after Mount Royal at all but rather after Jacob Mountain, the first Anglican bishop of Quebec. Thus, it should correctly be named “rue Mountain”. The City of Montreal provides some rather dubious arguments to counter this claim, however.
DeleteI don't see why the language law ought to limit street signs from being bilingual. Several cities have no problem with giving more than one name to the same street (or even different names to stretches of a street).
DeleteIt'd be great to see, for example, Pine Av. | Ave. des Pins on the same sign. But of course, the fact that this has already been the case in the past shouldn't cloud our judgment as to the logistical- and acceptance-based requirements to actually make it happen.
"Pine Av. | Ave. des Pins"
DeleteNice try Apparatchik,better luck next time :)
D'un côté et l'autre d'une plaque de rue, ou du même bord.
DeleteIt happened before and it'll happen again, septard. Separatist freedom for less than half the population isn't more important than freedom of expression for everybody.
à bientôt!
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteThere are unfortunately a lot of losses of English street and place names in Montreal that speak to the history of the city, such as Commissioners Street, now rue de la commune, St James Street, once the name of Montreal's and Canada's main centre of finance, now rue St-Jacques, a translation, but lacking the same resonance, or Dominion Square, now Square Dorchester. There are of course many other losses, as can be seen by looking at any old street plan of the city.
DeleteThat said, one has to be very thankful that Park Ave was not renamed after Robert Bourassa, as was proposed a few years ago, though that took a long community battle.
The Bronx Park sector of Lasalle has been renamed "Village des Rapides" and Bronx Park Elementary School is a French school now. Just another example of Quebecois historical revisionism and ethnic cleansing...
DeleteI just realized something on the article of Journal de Montreal. In that article, it is said that Chloe Ernst, the correspondent is a unilingual anglophone who can not form two French sentences. Does this means that the good Journal made a hiring and signed the employment contract, here in Montreal, in English?
ReplyDeletehow hypocritical??
DeleteI for one am (mock) offended.
DeleteSeriously... I don't get what this retarded fearmongering is about. If she happens to stick around and definitely if she ends up settling here for good, it'd be surprising if her kids and grandkids didn't become bilingual.
Citaion très intéressante:
ReplyDelete"Les Montréalais sont non seulement tolérants, ils sont sans doute les seuls « vrais » bilingues au pays, a constaté Chloë Ernst."
Hmmmm...Qu'en pensez-vous Apparatchik?
à quelques exceptions près, j'aime bien penser que c'est le cas. Et il faut en être fier. J'ai toujours pensé que l'idéal canadien se retrouvait bel et bien à Montréal, chez nous.
DeleteQuelle ironie que de constater que la vaste majorité de nos bilingues/trilingues ne le sont pas en raison de notre législation provinciale en matière de langue, mais bien malgré celle-ci. Ne jamais penser remplacer entregent et persuasion organique menant à un certain bilinguisme plutôt que de créer un environnement unilingue artificiel par exécution forcée. C'est là la différence entre vivre et laisser vivre et manque de civisme. La majorité du monde finit par vivre et laisser vivre et s'exprime au moins approximativement dans une deuxième langue, ce qui est un très bon début.
Dommage que vous vous en indignez tellement. S'il était possible pour vous de voir le portrait de mon point de vue, vous comprendrez à quel point vous nuisez aux mêmes gens et idéaux auxquels vous dites vous battre.
The Royal Vic thing is an excellent example of how French language laws in Quebec would ACTUALLY make people's lives easier. However, that kind of thing is smothered under the weight of all the dithering and dathering about unilingual Supreme Court judges and store names without French modifiers.
ReplyDeleteIn the Journal de Montreal about the "reporter" who came to Montreal to see if you could live in English, a reader says:
ReplyDeleteMaiaY
Cet article m'a fait rire aux éclats. Facile de vivre à Montréal en anglais...à moins qu'on veuille travailler! Je me demande comment il est facile de vivre ici si on n'a pas de salaire pour payer son loyer, pour se nourrir ou se vêtir. J'ai entendu je ne sais pas combien de fois depuis que je me suis installée à Montréal que ce sont les anglophones qui réussissent mieux à se trouver des emplois les plus lucratifs et prestigieux, mais en fin de compte ce sont les gens parfaitement bilingues qui ont l'avantage. Les anglophones unilingues ont les mêmes problèmes que les francophones unilingues sur le marché de travail montréalais, mais souvent encore pire puisqu'ils ont aucune possibilité de se faire engager par des sociétés d'état, des institutions gouvernementales, des écoles, des médias ou ou d'autres grands employeurs tels que La Banque Nationale, La Caisse Desjardins, BNP Paribas etc. Je ne le dis pas comme plainte mais seulement comme un constat de la réalité des choses. C'est ridicule de mettre entre parenthèses ou à la toute fin d'un tel article qu'il n'est pas facile de trouver du travail si on est unilingue, étant donné que la plupart des immigrants cherchent avant tout du travail quand ils prennent la décision de se déplacer, et que la raison principale pour laquelle les nouveaux arrivants repartent, c'est parce qu'ils n'arrivent pas à se trouver un emploi satisfaisant. Il est beau de recevoir un accueil chaleureux dans sa langue de préférence, mais malheureusement un bon accueil n'est pas assez pour rendre la vie ici vivable.
The comments section is interesting. Too bad their print readers don't see what is posted online in response to the J de M articles.
Either I'm right to say that it's our media who elect our leaders by leveraging their position as purveyors of influence, or there's a serious disconnect between large segments of our news organizations and the admittedly hodgepodge though comparatively individual reality bubble I happen to be living in.
DeleteIn the face of a seemingly monolithic "reality" peddled by a lot of news sources, it's both disturbing and comforting to read comments that are willing to speak truth to self-proclaimed powers that be.
Well, I don't think that journalists are the great purveyor of information that they once used to be. There was a time when journalists had to check 3 sources to see if what they are reporting on was correct. They used to be more in depth. That is no longer the case. Now, just a rumour, no checking, can be reported.
DeleteWith today's consolidation of media, and with the focus being on profits at all costs, it is better to be sensationalistic that come out with the truth. That way you can sell more newspapers and get more advertising on TV.
Add to that the political reality of today in Quebec. It is easy to get someone to blab about how bad "The English" are. You don't have to invest any money in that. There are 5 or 6 places you can go for that and you can get a sensationalist story/headline, facts be damned. And if your readership is French speaking, it is your advantage to attack the English speakers because you don't really offend your readership/viewership.
If you can make unlingual French speakers feel insecure about their language and demonize English speakers, it plays into your bottome line. And if French speakers are unilingual, better for you as a French language media conglomerate because then they can only watch your tv, listen to your radio, and read your newspapers.
Just my 2 cents worth.
I've always maintained that being unilingual francophones (unilinguals in general, actually) makes us captives in more ways than one.
DeleteThis is nothing more than a particularly eloquent example.
Here is an idea, why don,t we, the anglophone community, organize a mass complaint to the OQLF. Basically we all write a Bogus complaint to the OQLF about a apperceived violation of law 101, the goal being to bog down the bureaucracy in complaints. This form of protest will be noticed for sure and will force the QC government into some sort of reaction.
ReplyDeleteCute.
Deletehttp://www.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/charte/questions_freq/respect/rep02_respect.html
"La personne qui présente la demande doit fournir ses coordonnées, y compris son adresse personnelle et le numéro de téléphone où l'on peut la joindre le jour. L'Office n'a pas le droit de dévoiler l'identité du plaignant à moins d'une autorisation écrite de sa part."
Marc Man Can
DeleteThat would be a good idea. Basically load them with so many complaints that they would be paralyzed. Got to work on a way to get this happening.
As for putting down the address and phonenumber to be contacted, just do what Pierre Poutine did: fake number and name
DeleteLMAO!!!!
Congrats on the CJAD broadcast...any way you can put a link to the audio here on the site so that we can hear it?
ReplyDeleteIt's unbelievable that LaPresse would publish such drivel.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cyberpresse.ca/debats/votre-opinion/201204/03/01-4512193-des-immigrants-anglicises.php
"L'offre des commissions scolaires anglophones est tout à fait légale. Ils se permettent même de faire de la publicité dans le métro de Montréal, ou dans les hebdomadaires locaux des quartiers multiethniques. "
Oh my. English school boards are allowed to advertize in the metro daily and local weeklies. What's the world coming to.
"Si la formation est donnée en anglais, l'adulte en question sera beaucoup plus susceptible de travailler dans un milieu anglophone et de s'intégrer à la minorité anglophone du Québec."
I love the word "susceptible" here. It's as if she's talking about a disease.
I looked up this Tania Longpré and surprise surprise, she turns out to be an FSL teacher. So again, personal interests under the guise of a concern for the culture and language.
It's funny how she talks about the necessity to francise immigrants as if the immigrants were a property, an object that can be and should be programmed and molded. As if the immigrants had no free will of their own, and upon arrival in QC had to be taught to walk, talk, bathe, wipe their butts, and tended to by the FSL shepherds.
http://www.journaldemontreal.com/videos/featured/en-vedette/932569475001/tania-longpre/1479515686001
This perpetual bleating about anglicisation is maddening. I wish they would comment on the Editor's article about the myth of anglicisation for a change, if only to balance things out.
DeleteGilles Proulx was back on the Dumont show, talking about "anglicization of immigrants".
ReplyDeletehttp://vtele.ca/videos/dumont/respecter-la-loi-101-mais-apprendre-l-anglais-pour-travailler_42960.php
The ravings of the old fool aside, I think Dumont gets this wrong. He blames the fact that immigration rates doubled but the francisation budget stayed the same.
This is the thinking of a bureaucrat who thinks everything can be fixed by a law or a decree. If we just pump more money here, and ban something there, we'll get what we want. But modern post-industrial societies are too complex to follow a centrally-planned script.
The fact is that most immigrants do go thorough some FSL course, they do learn enough French sooner or later and become functional in it, but they never become culturally "francised". The reasons for this are obvious:
1. You can't change someone's inner and native culture with a bunch of administrative or coercive measures
2. Francophones don't really want fully integrated immigrants. They want them to be a rang lower. So they keep them at an arm's length, which pushes immigrants away, because nobody wants to be somebody's else bitch
3. The presence of other cultures cannot be erased with a law
4. English is necessary for work. To change that, the government of QC would have to abolish the globalized capitalist system (which I am not a big fan of either). That means taking on the US government and corporate multinationals. with all due respect, these are in the major league, while the govt of QC is in the minors. There is nothing it can do besides huffing and puffing, flexing muscles, and posturing.
Pourquoi venir s'installer au Québec si vous ne voulez pas être confronté à la réalité francophone de notre province?L'amérique anglophone est pourtant si vaste...
ReplyDeleteBecause Montreal is bilingual. If there is a francophone that wants no contact with anglophones, he should go and hide out in the regions of Quebec. Not in Montreal. Thank you.
Delete"Pourquoi venir s'installer au Québec si vous ne voulez pas être confronté à la réalité francophone"
DeleteBecause:
1. The francophone side of this "reality" is not too interested in having fully integrated immigrants. Despite talking the "integration" talk, it walks a walk of les maitres and les importes. It is therefore not a very attractive "reality" to "confront".
2. The reality is not that francophone in Montreal where immigrants settle. It may be such in the RoQ, but immigrants don't settle there.
Quand je dis réalité francophone,je fais aussi allusion à la loi linguistique qui l'accompagne ainsi qu'aux restrictions...Envers la communauté anglophone.
DeleteThe reality is that Quebec will have to become more and more English speaking for the economy to do well and I am helping that.
DeleteBecause my great-great-grandparents (and all my other ancestors since then) are buried on Mount Royal and it's our province too. Quebec is not 100% francophone and never has been, ever in its history. I have no business moving anyplace else on account of insecure Quebec nationalists.
DeleteBy the same token, you could ask yourself why you don't move to Chibougamau (or France, for that matter) if you don't want to be confronted by the bilingual reality of our metropolis.
AnonymousApr 9, 2012 02:52 PM
DeleteYou are mistaken in thinking that anglos must have come here from someplace else. We have been an integral part of Quebec society for centuries, just like you, and not tourists or recent immigrants. You obviously see only what you want to see.
Pas adressé à moi mais si je peux me permettre:
Delete"why you don't move to Chibougamau"
Oui parce qu'évidemment il faut conduire 10 heures au nord de Montréal pour enfin atteindre une ville unilingue francophone. Les banlieues de la rive-nord, vous connaissez? Et toutes les régions moins éloignées que le Nord-du-Québec? Oubliez la France, la majorité des Québécois vivent dans des régions où ils vivent en français, votre réalité bilingue n'est pas la réalité de la majorité et ça, Statistiques Canada peut le confirmer. L'île de Montréal ne représente même pas le quart de la population totale. Le Québec c'est bien plus que Montréal.
C'est comme l'exemple typique du Saguenay donné par des non-francophones comme exemple d'endroit où l'on peut vivre qu'en français. Et tout ce qu'il y a de Repentigny (dès qu'on sort de Montréal mais même sur l'île: pas beaucoup d'anglais parlé à Pointe-aux-Tremles, par exemple) à Saguenay en passant par Trois-Rivières et Québec j'imagine que ça c'est bilingue?
Désolé mais ça fait longtemps que je lis ce genre de truc et je devais le dire. Peut-on s'en tenir à la réalité? Utiliser Montréal pour parler de questions de langues et de bilinguisme parce que ça n'a aucun sens d'utiliser le terme Québec alors que pour la majorité du territoire habité il n'y a pas de question au sujet de la langue.
Oh, for Pete’s sake, I was making a point about the dingleberries who tell us we ought to move elsewhere to illustrate that this is just as much our home as it is theirs.
DeleteAnonymous@9:18 is complaining about making a short 10-hour drive to be in his anglo-free utopia while his brother-in-arms is suggesting that a 3-4 days’ drive for us will make him happy. The point I was making is that both options are equally nonsensical. In addition, he is conveniently ignoring that half of Quebec’s population lives in the region of Montreal while he states that Quebec is so much more than that.
Yes, I know the "banlieues de la Rive-Nord" very well... in fact, that is where I was born. That area used to be a very happy one and I loved living there until as kids, the neighbours began swatting my siblings and me off their property with a broom in order to get rid of “les maudits anglais”. Finally, my parents decided we were better off to move to a more congenial location.
Franco-Quebecers forget that in the 19th century (less than 150 years ago), Quebec City was almost half Irish (in other words, anglophone) and this included the Simons family that gave rise to the famous department store that we continue to enjoy to this day, even in Montreal. Nowadays, Quebec City is 99% francophone and no one there bats an eyelash at the tragic loss of their history.
There are plenty of families, such as the Blackburns and Teasdales from the former Chicoutimi and Jonquière in the Saguenay, who have lost their original tongue and only speak French today. Anglo-Quebec history exists throughout the width and breath of Quebec and is imbued everywhere. Trois-Rivières used to be known as Three-Rivers once upon a time when the Mauricie used to be an important economic region. Even Rivière-du-Loup, of all places, used to be known as Fraserville. Nevertheless, Francophones appear to be proud when they assimilate anglophones and yet cry out to the high heavens whenever they are assimilated by evil anglophones. Do you detect any trace of hypocrisy?
I am so saddened by this “majority/minority” business. I wonder if those people have ever travelled to the Pontiac, or the Bonaventure, or the Eastern Townships, or Huntington or Shawinigan or Lachute or most of the Laurentians. Shawville (QC) is 85% anglophone; does that mean that all francophone Quebecers there should acquiesce to the anglophone majority? I don’t think so; live and let live was by and large the order of the day, back when we had more sense.
What a shame it is to witness the increased intolerance that exists today.
Oh, and speaking of the Saguenay, I wonder if most of you know that Arvida (QC) derives its name from ARthur VIning DAvis, the American philanthropist who helped to develop the economy of that part Quebec while French-Canadians were then largely obsessed with attending seminaries and convents and the Catholic Church and now hold it against us for making Quebec grow.
DeleteOh, and speaking of the Saguenay...
DeletePresque intéressant...Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
"the American philanthropist who helped to develop the economy of that part Quebec while French-Canadians were then largely obsessed with attending seminaries and convents"
DeleteWho do you think worked for American-owned companies in the first place and made guys like Arthur Vining Davis rich? Why do you think a lot of French-Canadians moved to Arvida? Just to build churches? The great majority of the workforce wasn't English-speaking.
"There are plenty of families, such as the Blackburns and Teasdales from the former Chicoutimi and Jonquière in the Saguenay, who have lost their original tongue and only speak French today."
DeleteYou make it sound like forced assimilation happened or something.
I guess they were okay with losing their English because they married French-Canadians. It's not like they were forced to assimilate, their children had French-speaking mothers so French was their language too. Then those children weren't forced to marry French-speakers.
Those men chose to move to a French-speaking area and chose to marry outside of the English-speaking community so by doing that they chose to lose their original tongue. I guess you could call it voluntary assimilation. They weren't forced to do anything.
If I moved to the United States and married an American woman, I wouldn't expect my descendents to still speak French more than two centuries later.
Pourquoi bâtir une société UNILINGUE francophone et faire semblant de ne pas être confrontés à la réalité anglophone de notre continent?
ReplyDeleteEn tant que population ne représentant que 2% l'Amérique du Nord entière, il me semble que nos nationaleux se gonflent l'égo un peu trop facilement en oubliant l'importance de bien NOUS intégrer au sein d'un continent lequel est à majorité anglophone.
Le fardeau, me semble, est bien le nôtre (ou, comme je suis déjà bilingue, devrais-je dire, le vôtre). On peut bien se parler en français entre nous et avoir une société francophone accueillante, fonctionnelle, et qui rayonne, mais traiter tout ce qui est anglais comme une maladie, c'est l'erreur perpetuelle qu'on commet. Indépendants ou non, nous aurons, tôt ou tard, à faire face à la réalité que la ligne dure anglophobe des dernières décennies ne nous aide en rien à mieux nous faire briller.
Can I get a Hallelujah?!
Delete+1
DeleteQue nous proposez-vous?Un bilinguisme modèle Nouveau-Brunswickois ou Louisianais?
ReplyDeleteNi l'un ni l'autre.
DeleteJetez un coup d'oeil au modèle maltais:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Malta
Un détal qui pourrait bien surprendre:
[...] Although Italian has since been exchanged for English as the official language, it is still used and is spoken commonly in certain professional workplaces. The percentage of speakers today, 66%, is in fact much greater than when the language was actually official, in 1931, when only 14% spoke it.
Une île isolée en plein milieu de la Méditerranée?Rien de plus pertinent car vous êtes loin de m'avoir convaincu.
DeleteDommage. Moi qui y vois au contraire un cas d'étude (méconnu du grand public d'ici) fort pertinent, pragmatique et qui démontre qu'il est possible qu'une société soit organiquement multilingue.
DeleteÀ bien y penser, ça ressemble beaucoup plus au récit que nous font avaler quotidiennement les indépendantistes:
- le Québec est une île isolée en plein milieu d'un océan anglophone
- le Québec est à forte majorité peuplé de gens d'origine Canadienne-française (Malte est pleine de maltais)
- le Québec absorbe des immigrants venus de tous azimuts. Malte a connu des vagues de phéniciens, d'arabes, de grecs, de romains, de musulmans, de normans, de siciliens, et d'autres italiens
- le Québec a beaucoup plus de locuteurs français aujourd'hui qu'à tout autre moment de son histoire (l'urgence de se séparer serait où là-dedans?)
- Malte a un plus fort pourcentage de locuteurs d'anglais et d'italien aujourd'hui que lors du changement de régime il y a presque un siècle: tout ça sans une chute corrélative de locuteurs de maltais (en fait, il y en a même eu une augmentation).
C'est sûr que nous sommes tous susceptibles de préjugés de confirmation, mais dans le fin fond, il faut parfois et éventuellement abandonner nos craintes lorsqu'on constate que la situation ne ressemble pas en grande partie au grand portrait apocalyptique que tentent sans cesse (surtout récemment) de nous brosser:
- les médias francophones
- les groupes de pression séparatistes extrémistes
- les politiciens de partis séparatistes
- les groupes de réflexion aux orientations indépendantistes
Il faut certes demeurer vigilants -- j'en conviens en tant qu'archi-fédéraliste pro-bilingue -- mais l'idée de dépouiller nos propres voisins de leurs droits humains pour favoriser un seul impératif (soit l'impératif linguistique) me répugne au point de non retour.
Regardez ce que la "guerre au terrorisme" fait aux É.-U. On assiste à l'érosion de libertés civiles de TOUT le monde depuis plus d'une décennie, et tout ça au nom de la "sécurité". Je trouve ça répréhensible, et j'y vois un écho du chauvinisme linguistique et du discours nationaliste qu'on nous sert au Québec depuis longtemps: Danger imminent? Étrangers? Ayez peur! Communistes! Musulmans! Syndicalistes! Aux barricades! Ces maudits libéraux biraciaux pro-avortement pro-homosexualité entachent notre pure et belle nation chrétienne! Soldats de Dieu, réveillez-vous!
... Non mais vraiment.
Je regrette, seppie; l'ennemi ça peut aussi être celui crée un écran de fumée et qui fait tout pour me faire croire qu'il protège mes intérêts alors même qu'il me les évacue un à un.
I have the distinct impression that the OP is not genuinely interested in any proposals at all, but for the benefit other more reasonable people reading this, there are many other examples one could look at.
DeleteThe the Republic of India has hundreds of languages, 30 of which have over 1 million native speakers each (none of which must be half the size of another in public, incidentally). Hindi is the principal official language and English is the secondary official language.
Russia has over 100 minority languages. Russian is official everywhere and 27 other languages are official in different regions.
The Republic of Paraguay is a mostly bilingual country, where both Spanish, a European language, and Guaraní, an indigenous language, have official status.
While it’s well-known that Quebec nationalists feel they need to “more French the French themselves”, it was interesting to discover there is a parallel in the Irish diaspora who sometimes wish to be more Irish than the Irish themselves.
In any event, every entity has its own particular history and doesn’t have to copy any other example. I know the OP (very likely Seppie... quelle surprise!) was only asking another “hit-and-run” rhetorical question, but the topic is quite a fascinating one to look into indeed.
So thanks, OP, for pointing out how very few people are so insecure about their language other than French-Quebecers!
The part that is unfortunate is that the worst examples are used by the media, furthering the fear, angst, and hatred.
DeleteSo sad, since it doesn't help either case when you think about it.
@Yannick
DeleteComment est-ce que le système de billinguisme marche au N.B.?
It's astounding that the 7 million or so francophones in North America feel they should be treated in exactly the same way as the 50 million or so hispanophones and the 350 million or so anglophones as if there were no absolutely no difference whatsoever between any of these communities.
Delete