Wednesday, March 28, 2012

Paranoid Reaction to Anglo Poll quite Predictable

We are the OQLF!...Resistance is Futile!
"We are the OQLF.
Lower your defenses and surrender your language.
We will add your historical and fraternal distinctiveness to our own.
Your culture will adapt to service us.
Resistance is futile."


I must say I was not a bit surprised at the uproar caused by the l'Acualité poll on Anglophone attitudes towards French. (see Monday's post)

The underlying reaction by the Francophone authors of the article and by French language militants reacting to it, is outright shock and rage that Anglophones have no desire to be assimilated into the great Francophone majority of Quebec.
What's worse, Anglos aren't ashamed of that fact and when asked, they unabashedly admit that they wish to see their culture flourish and expand in Quebec!

HERESY!!  OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!

All this rage by militants belies a hypocritical attitude whereby they believe that resistance to assimilation is the highest form of social responsibility when it pertains to French in Quebec and across Canada, but racist anti-socialism when it pertains to Anglos in Quebec.

Every single French language militant has no problem with this apparent contradiction,  that assimilation of Anglos and Ethnics into Franco-Quebec cultural is considered natural and laudable, while assimilation of Francophones into the prevailing English culture in other provinces is cultural genocide.

The fact that the English in Quebec don't want to become Francophones and that they don't want to join in the great Francophone culture comes as some kind of a shock to French language militants, who hoped that by now, the pressure of Bill 101 would have convinced them to leave or capitulate.

Obviously it hasn't happened and so the Pierre Curzis and friends are demanding that the pressure on the English be ramped up, in order to find a 'final solution' to the English in Quebec.

So much harsh reaction to what Anglophones think, Why?

Since when do the French language militants give a hoot as to what we Anglophone's think?

It's understandable that idiots like Louis Prefontaine rant and rave over a silly poll as if it was some type of a declaration of war, it's what he lives for.
I take a measure of joy in his pain, the image of him sitting at his desk, making uncontrollable little dog whimpers of frustration with spittle running down his chin, as he bangs furiously on his keyboard getting out the invective rage as fast as he could is almost too sweet to imagine!

"HOW DARE THEY, THOSE RACIST ANGLOS!!!!!!!! "

PQ members of the National Assembly, Yves-François Blanchet and Nicole Léger told reporters that they didn't need a survey to see that English is taking over Montreal, despite admitting they had no statistical proof Link{Fr} 

To see mainstream politicians reacting to the poll and demanding action because Anglos hold certain opinions speaks to the outright paranoia that permeates the Francophone psyche which is utterly offended that Anglophones reject their vision of Quebec, a place where everybody speaks French in public and where minority languages are restricted to the home.

And so for language militants, the project of one province/one language was thought to be a done deal, where even those opposed have dutifully fled or submitted.

The poll, if anything, serves as a wakeup call that Anglos have never accepted this principle and never will. Nor are they prepared to run away anymore.
Perhaps this is the shock.

Oh those dreadful and ungrateful anglos, imagine the effrontery, caring about their own community more than that of the francophone majority!

Is it so hard to fathom that Anglos believe that Montreal is better for being English?
Is it so incomprehensible that Anglos have no interest in supporting laws that restrict their rights?
Is it difficult to understand that Anglos have a separate culture and society that doesn't include Marie-Mai, Ginette Reno, or other second or third rate talents?
Is it so hard to understand that unlike French language militants, Anglos value their Canadian identity first and feel no compunction at all to conform to Quebec nationalistic ideals, even though they live in Quebec?

And no, Anglos do not accept admonitions such as...."Love it or Leave it!"

And no, as well, Anglos are unashamed and unbowed.

Some say that we have reached some sort of linguistic peace in Quebec.
I see it more as a linguistic stalemate wherein both parties, the English and French are dissatisfied with the status quo, but not so much so that they are willing to risk social upheaval.
Something like the Mutually Assured Destruction doctrine (MAD) of the Cold war.

If the government gives into French language militants and raises the level of oppression, it's hard to predict where all this may end.

In the meantime the hysteria ramps up higher and higher.

A couple of articles in the French language newspapers are all too typical of the sordid and shameful witch hunt against English that is now going on in the province, a situation that would be laughable if not so utterly sad.

In a small town where you'd be hard pressed to find one Anglophone resident, the Chambly Journal, took the time to launch its very own local investigation against the incursion of the dreaded English with the fervor of a HazMat team fighting to contain a virulent contagion.
"Restaurant Bouchard de Richelieu displayed on its outdoor sign "4 to 7 Happy Hour", while a fitness center, 'Proform' displays "Beat the Clock" on its sign in an attempt to recruit new members.
A reader  found this most regrettable that they were unable to find a permanent translation...

In order to respect the French language the bar Éclusier needs to replace the term "bar lounge " with  'bar-salon' and the word "vinotherapy"with 'vinotherapie.'

We also found that  fortune cookies in a Chinese Buffet are mostly in English packaging. It is difficult to see the text in French. For some time the messages within the cookie were in English and Chinese.... Recently, the small citations returned to French and English
"We also found that at a Sushi shop in Chambly, it can be difficult to make oneself understood in French. A lady who asked if they still had vegetable juice, received neither a response nor a vegetable juice. New employees speak French, but when an employee served our reporter the wrong order of sushi, she chose to explain the situation in English rather than French. 
And that's not forgetting that when one paid by debit card, the terminal displayed instructions in English.

Another citizen chastised Tourism Montérégie because documentation was produced in both languages. To the extent that it is tourist documents aimed at attracting new visitors to the area which are widely disseminated, the team chose to include both languages ​​in the brochure....
...You can fill out an online complaint form by visiting the website of l'Office québécois de la langue française (www.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca).
Between 1 April 2010 and March 31, 2011, 3661 complaints were filed with the Board. In Montérégie, 35 complaints were recorded.
In 73% of cases, the situation has been corrected or the complaint was unfounded, while two cases were referred to the Director of Criminal and Penal Prosecutions. The majority of complaints were in connection with sales literature (website, invoices, job applications) or public commercial displays.

Did we miss a display in English or you want to report a situation where French is not emphasized? 
Write us or send us a photo.   Link{Fr}
I particularly like the last part where the newspaper invites readers to participate in its witch hunt.

Another newspaper, this time in La Voix in Sorel complains that too many stores have English names in the local mall.
" 'It's scandalous', according to a retired professor from Sorel-Tracy, Jean Rajotte: "Our mall has existed for several years. How is it that owners and managers of the centre ignored the law concerning French in the name of the businesses. Why not add a descriptor in French? " Link{Fr}
Of course, his contention that there is something in the law to that effect is false, something that the OQLF has been trying to convince us that is true, nonetheless.

At any rate, you'd think the writer and the good professor would have better things to be concerned with.
The mall that they are referring to is a disaster, with over forty empty locations, an economic albatross to the owners and a disgrace to the city of Sorel, English names notwithstanding.

But this is Quebec, language tops everything.

179 comments:

  1. First comment!

    Looking at the hysteria from the separatist groups, I think the sentiment now shifts from protecting of the French language toward elimination of the English language. Protecting the French language (as the idea of Rene Levesque) gives French speakers the right to live, to work, to study and to be served in English. In my opinion, those objectives are achieved.

    What is happening now is that individuals, organizations or even governments are PROHIBITED to go the extra mile to cater the English speakers AFTER their obligations to the French-speaking community are fulfilled.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Troy: Rene Levesque had HIS vision, the rest of the PQ had theirs. While there are those who advocated Rene Levesque as some sort of benevolent leader, the simple fact of the matter is he created a monster. In Mordecai Richler's book Oh Canada! Oh Quebec Richler mentions some sort of mixer for Canadian students and those studying Quebec/Canadian history where Levesque admitted to Richler how he couldn't stand Camille Laurin, and Richler retorts that it was he who appointed Laurin to his cabinet. Levesque responded to that by grinning, shrugging his shoulders and walking away.

      The PQ was born a racist party just like that RIN party started by Pierre Borgault. RIN was the forerunner to the PQ, but was too radical to be widely accepted, at least in those days.

      I still stand behind what I wrote on the subject of two days ago. On a smaller scale, Quebec's hatred towards those not of the ilk of the majority, or at least their indifference towards the plight of the minorities, is manifesting à la Nazi Germany. Which way it will go from here is up to the Quebec people, and I don't like what I'm seeing.

      We've had the fanatical paranoia of the Hérouxville Manifesto, the hiring of Habs coach Randy Cunneyworth and the vitriolic bitching in the submissions to the Bouchard-Taylor Commission, oral and written. With this crappie politics permeating the fabric of Quebec's societal majority, is it any wonder the hatred and paranoia has come to this with no end in sight?

      If anyone, like one of the contributors below, wants to compare Greece with Quebec, feel free to go ahead. What economic shape is Greece in today? Then think about what economic shape is Quebec in today? See where this conversation is going?

      Actually, what has happened to the Habs is a perfect reflection of the economic shape Quebec is in today. While I won't say politics has never had anything to do with the Habs, it has gotten worse this year with the ownership throwing Cunneyworth under the bus just days into his mandate. The Habs just may get first pick in the draft in June. You can rest assured if he was still alive and in command, Pollock would have picked a pretty good talent, just like he always did. You can rest assured if he still has his job come June (unlikely), Pierre Gauthier will make some stupid pick, and if not Gauthier, some other Francophone shlamazel [see http://thebialog.blogspot.ca/2008/01/shlamazel.html]. And to complement the Cunneyworth fiasco, be sure to read [former NHL player] Bob Sirois's book on how French speaking players got underpaid in comparison to English speaking players. (How about what the Caps are paying Alex Ovetchkin as opposed to what they paid Sirois?)

      ...and the beat goes on...

      Delete
    2. Sorry, I didn't finish my story above from Richler's book. The "mixer" I was referring to was at Harvard University where Canadian students and those studying Quebec and Canadian history had a networking mixer and both Levesque and Richler were invitees. Richler uttered the remarks mentioned above to Levesque and Levesque reacted as described above.

      Now you're up to date...and the beat still goes on...

      Delete
    3. "racist party just like that RIN party started by Pierre Borgault."

      Pierre Bourgault a dénoncé le racisme toute sa vie mais encore faut-il le connaitre pour le savoir.
      Un parti raciste? Faux. Le parti dénoncait le racisme de certains anglophones comme ceux (genre le président du CN dans les années 60) qui ne voulaient pas engager des francophones.
      Même des historiens anglos parlent d'une relation de dominants/dominés et ce serait les dominés les racistes?

      "We've had the fanatical paranoia of the Hérouxville Manifesto"

      Est-ce que le manifeste parle de camps de concentration? Non, pas du tout. Il n'est même pas contre l'immigration, juste contre la lapidation. Par contre vous parlez de nazis. C'est qui qui est parano?

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    4. "We've had the fanatical paranoia of the Hérouxville Manifesto"

      Anti-charia = Raciste

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    5. It has become apparent to me that I was not clear on what the Greek comparison was about.

      1) The separatists claim that there’s a need to protect the French language with racist anti English laws, even though Canada has bent over backwards to shelter Quebec culture.
      2) Greeks living under the tyrannous Turkish Empire still managed to keep their language even though it is barely spoken in manners of importance in the world. On the other hand, French is one of the top languages worldwide.
      3) This was not meant to compare Quebec to Greece. It was meant to remind us that a language remains viable if people who love it speak it without forcing it on others.
      4) This was meant to remind the Separatist Language Taliban that they do not have the kind of control on Montréal as the Turks did on Greece. What makes them think that English Montrealers will be force to renounce their language when the Greeks kept theirs while having endured so much more for centuries?

      The message here is that if you love your language, use it. Don’t force it on others because some opportunistic political leaders tricked you to believe that your English Brothers are the devil.

      Of course I see this last bit of violent push by the Separatists Language Taliban as their final assault before they are exposed to French Canadians as the bigots they really are.

      A final note to Mr. Sauga. As much as you seam to take pleasure in the current difficult situation of Greece, I am confident that no matter what happens, the Greeks will survive it. This is more than I can say about the racists who’ve been poisoning our country for the last four decades!!

      Delete
    6. First of all, to the respondant immediately above this comment: I take ZERO pleasure in Greece's economic misfortunes, although they do have to take responsibility for what is truly their own doing. Montreal had its hands full with the billion dollar Olympics--took 30 years to pay off. Athens ran up a $12 billion debt, and I shudder to think how much London will get soaked for this summer when they are already in serious financial trouble. I don't gain anything in their collective suffering.

      Quebec is another story because equaliztion and other federal transfers are what has kept Quebec thus far from economic demise, yet they keep on biting the hand that has been feeding them. Ontario came out with a budget yesterday and rightfully it is mostly the public service that will have to suck this one up. Over 75,000 Ontario civil servants and the parapublic service earned over $100,000. Compared to the private sector, this is far too much and Quebec well overpays its civil and parapublic service as well. This is no longer sustainable, and Ontario finally took matters at hand, esp. when deficits over the last two years exceed $41 billion. Oh, and Ontario was partially to be thanked as Canada's largest net contributor, but no need for you to thank us. Just don't spit in our eyes for it.

      To the anonymous crétin's comment @ 4:20AM: I never even REMOTELY implied Hérouxville was a concentration camp, so I don't know why your imagination has run riot; nevertheless, it's even MORE prejudicial to make assumptions that stoning is some kind of norm in the Islamic culture. Anyone who takes in barbaric practices like that or honour killings can expect to face consequences in THIS country (i.e., Canada) to the fullest extent of the law and the wrath of our society. There is one individual who killed four members of his family in Kingston to the fullest rebuke of our courts. Satisfied, you half-witted crétin?

      Delete
    7. I was born in Quebec City, I have never felt like ''being a Quebecois". What I mean by that is: I do not behave or think like most of them. I am unable of racism, intolerence and ignorance. I lived in British Columbia for 21 years and I have been back in Quebec for 20 months now and I cannot wait to leaving the Province of Quebec. I want to live in freedom of thoughts and spirited living. I brought my dog with me here and I was threated like a criminal, they have no tolenrence towards animals, that itself should tell you a lot about a society that do not like animals. I had a hard time to changing my driver licence and to get my RAMQ. I will never be able to getting a Doctor so I have to go to private clinics otherwise I have to fight to getting the medication I have been using for 15 years. The typical Quebec behaviour is aggressive and I am getting there althought I don't want to but their continuous harrassement of my past in an Anglophone province is unbearable. I was called by my own family and suppossed frineds: an Anglo lovers and a traitor. So I do not belong in Quebec, I was never a separatist but I want Quebec to get the hell out of Canada for good and then will see if they survive!!!

      Delete
  2. "The mall that they are referring to is a disaster, with over forty empty locations, an economic albatross to the owners and a disgrace to the city of Sorel, English names notwithstanding."

    Not unlike the entire Quebec economy which is in shambles. Debt now 248 billion. Unemployment in excess of 8.5%. GDP to debt ratio of 94%. Infrastructure crumbling.

    I believe the sacred holy grail of language is the least of the problems with Quebec.

    Vivre le Canada sans Quebec et tous les problemes avec le natione Quebecois.

    Desole, ma francais est ne pas bon.

    Mais, les faits sont vrais, n'est pas.

    Quebec is a sinking ship and all the rhetoric about language is inconsequential at the end of the day. Good job seppies as you have turned off the bilge pumps and opened the hatches " a la eau."

    Bonne chance avec votre nouvelles vies en la natione du Quebec. Bienvenue a le pauvreoite

    Avez une bonne journee.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Quebec is a sinking"

      L'ontario aussi... :)

      Delete
    2. "L'ontario aussi... :)"

      Good for you! This small comment says everything that one should ever need to know about language zealots in Quebec. That is: you care only about destruction and hate. You have lost sight of anything that is even remotely human by taking pleasure in the pain of another.

      If Ontario were to "sink" - and by the way I don't think it will- you would be no better off. Yet you choose to :) and act gleefully when faced with even the prospect.

      You hate. That is all you do.

      Delete
    3. If Ontario were to "sink"

      Il ne va pas couler,il coule présentement.16 milliards de déficit et vraiment pas certain qu'il soit éliminé d'ici 2017-2018,vraiment pas certain...

      Delete
    4. "You have lost sight of anything that is even remotely human by taking pleasure in the pain of another."

      Nous ne l'avons pas perdu,puisque nous ne l'avons jamais eu :)

      Delete
    5. Ce qui sera vraiment bien, c'est quand l'Ontario recevra plus de péréquation que le Québec. Les anti-Québecs devront faire preuve de plus d'imagination que les "8 milliards payé en bribes à Québec chaque année!"

      Quoique j'imagines qu'ils expliqueront que l'Ontario reçoit maintenant de la péréquation à cause de Québec...

      Delete
    6. YO, Anonymous Mar 28, 2012 11:46AM: No, crétin, Ontario is receiving payments, considerably less than Quebec (less than $1 billion) PLUS, Ontario, even though it cannot afford to, is still contributing more to the equalization system than it is taking in...FAR MORE!

      Delete
    7. L'ontario est en faillite?Quelle surprise!(sarc)Trop dépendante de l'industrie automobile américaine.Fallait s'y attendre,pauvre ontario :(

      Je crois que Mr.Sauga n'aura d'autres choix que de revenir chez nous si il veut maintenir une bonne qualité de vie.

      Delete
    8. Sauga- this is the third blog post I've chased you down. Maybe you'll actually read it for once.

      Ontario is getting 3.5 billions in equalization - half of what Quebec gets. It is getting 19.7 billions in total transfers - MORE than what Quebec gets.

      Keep wishing.

      http://www.fin.gc.ca/fedprov/eqp-eng.asp

      Delete
    9. Sauga est parti prendre une pause.Il doit savourer une ronde pâtisserie avec un trou au milieu et nappée d'un coulis de sucre artificiellement coloré.

      Delete
    10. "L'ontario est en faillite?Quelle surprise!(sarc)Trop dépendante de l'industrie automobile américaine."

      Well, at least Ontario has an automobile industry. All of the auto manufacturing companies moved out of Quebec years ago...it's definitely not a desirable place to do business.

      Delete
  3. "But this is Quebec, language tops everything."

    Of course, even tops the economic well being of the ...well...."Quebecois".

    Good thinking!!!

    ReplyDelete
  4. "What is happening now is that individuals, organizations or even governments are PROHIBITED to go the extra mile to cater the English speakers AFTER their obligations to the French-speaking community are fulfilled."

    Pour quoi pas, apres tous, they are just the maudit anglos, n'est pas.

    The only problem is that the maudit anglos represent the majoritie interests in Canada.

    Why the f'k do we give these people any respect as all as it is obvious they have no respect for us (ya know, the anglos who contribute a lot of money to the Quebec BS (as they call it in La Belle Province). We call it what is is, welfare.

    If you live in Quebec you are part of the problem, as you receive benefits courtesey of the ROC.

    Tell me its not true!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Pour quoi pas, apres tous, they are just the maudit anglos, n'est pas."

      Mise à jour: Les Québécois disent maintenant "Les ostie d'anglouilles".Voilà,vous êtes à niveau.

      Delete
    2. "Les Québécois disent maintenant"

      Tu parles au nom de tous?
      Y'a les anglos puis il y a les anglouilles. Pas la même chose.
      Certains d'entres nous ont même de la parenté anglo alors c'est pas correct de tous les rejeter.

      Delete
    3. Je sais,ma belle-soeur est anglo (Bientôt 3 ans qu'elle est mariée à mon frère) et suite à son insistance auprès d'un préposé de Bell pour que la communication se passe en français,nous songeons maintenant l'inviter,pour une première fois,à une de nos nos fêtes familiales.

      Delete
    4. Bell devrait se familiariser avec le Bill 101.

      Une bonne raison de faire affaire avec Vidéotron.

      Delete
    5. Effectivement,tous nos services de communication résidentielle passeront bientôt chez Vidéotron.Sans compter la façon que plusieurs préposés de Bell et Rogers massacrent nos noms.Très mauvais pour le commerce du coté des Québécois.

      Delete
    6. "Je sais,ma belle-soeur est anglo (Bientôt 3 ans qu'elle est mariée à mon frère) et suite à son insistance auprès d'un préposé de Bell pour que la communication se passe en français,nous songeons maintenant l'inviter,pour une première fois,à une de nos nos fêtes familiales."

      You are joking, right? Please tell me it's one of your humourless jokes.

      Delete
    7. "You are joking, right?"

      Non,pas du tout,nous allons vraiment l'inviter mais ce n'est qu'un test de passage,d'autant plus que nous avons appris dernièrement qu'elle est plutôt "bronzée",mais bon...

      Delete
    8. Plutôt bronzée? Une noire? Une anglo-noire qui insiste pour parler français?

      Coudonc, c'est Yolande James, c'est ça?

      http://www.assnat.qc.ca/fr/deputes/james-yolande-49/index.html

      Delete
    9. Non,pas Yoyo.Indice:Elle avait un poste très très important au fédéral et son mari est un "ex-séparatiste",je n'en dit pas plus...

      Delete
    10. Michaëlle Jean, c'est une anglo?
      Jean-Daniel Lafond, c'est votre frère?

      Delete
    11. Non,je savais que vous alliez croire que je suis le frère de Jean-Daniel et c'est vrai qu'il y a certaines similitudes mais il s'agit de personnalités moins publiques.

      Delete
    12. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

      Delete
    13. J'ai juste demandé si c'était Marlene Jennings et on m'a censuré.

      Delete
    14. Non ce n'est pas la dame en question.Évitez de mentionner des noms sur ce blogue.Laissons plutôt libre cours à notre imagination.

      Delete
  5. For more than 450 years Greece was occupied by the Ottoman (Turkish) Empire. While Greece was under siege, the world came out off the dark ages into La Renaissance leaving Greece far behind, even though Europe was celebrating the Greek contributions to humanity.

    History recalls the Turkish Empire as one of the most brutally barbaric the world has ever known, yet the Greeks were not deterred. During those 450+ years, the Greeks rebelled countess times and never gave up on their culture or their language. More than 650 years have passed and if you enter any of the many Greek owned restaurants, you will notice how Greeks have kept their language and coulter while embracing Canada and living both in French and English. The point in question is, how can French, an international language protected by Canada, disappear and how dare the French language Taliban expect to wipe out the official Language of North America without serious resistance?

    This hatred which the Separatist Taliban has for English will come back to haunt them once the 320 million North Americans will have just had enough. If separatist think they can continue to hide behind words like democracy while raping their fellow citizens basic human rights, they should remember that proud cultures don’t give in to the terrorism that a measly special interest group spews.

    If, together, we can’t make it in this Heavenly Final Frontier, shame on us all!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "For more than 450 years Greece was occupied by the Ottoman (Turkish) Empire."

      Why isn't their country Turkish territory anymore? Separatists!

      "During those 450+ years, the Greeks rebelled countess times and never gave up on their culture or their language."

      Why didn't they assimilate to Turkish? Greek isn't important, there were and still are more Turkish speakers.

      Greece isn't even their land! They stole it from the natives!
      "In about 1900 BC, the Indo-Europeans overran the Greek peninsula from the north and east."
      "These Indo-Europeans, known as Mycenaeans, introduced the Greek language to present-day Greece"
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Greece

      Of course, it's not the same, it's never the same.
      Everyone else has a right to a country.
      People from all around the world can come here and say "you can't separate! I will vote against it!" yet they would be mad if the same thing happened with immigrants in their home countries. Countries which, by the way, almost all used to be under the rule of another power, meaning most of those people are descendents of "evil" separatists.

      Like you said, the Turkish Empire was brutally barbaric (and that's quite unfortunate, I didn't mean to offend Greek people) but what if it would have been peaceful? Would Greece still be under Turkish rule to this day? Or would they have separated anyway?

      Let's look at the current situation in Scotland. Not under barbaric rule yet seems to want independence more and more. Will Canada recognize their independence if they break away from the UK? Will Scottish-Canadians be consistent and hate Scottish separatists?

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    2. They stole it from the natives! Never heard of something like that happening before. I've posted this previously on this blog (and elsewhere):

      Note - to French-Canadians living in Quebec, remember:You are the descendants of immigrants!

      All Canadians (and Americans) are. The only Quebec natives are:

      Inuit
      Abenakis
      Algonquins
      Attikameks
      Crees
      Wendat
      Malecities
      Micmacs
      Mohawks
      Innu

      My apologies to any of the First Nations missed. If you believe you should be treated differently under the law because of an accident of birth -
      you are a bigot!


      DD

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    3. Very well put, DD! Then again, the Royal Family is all due to the accident of birth, too!

      Delete
    4. The whole point of saying they stole it from the natives was that this is a typical reason given why Quebec can't become a country. It doesn't make sense because then that would mean that even in Europe, there are plenty of people living on stolen lands, in some cases it happened after French Quebecers became the majority in Quebec yet they it's somewhat okay because it's white Europeans stealing other white Europeans' land and people tend to have a different perception of such things because it's the Old World vs the New World and white people are "foreign" to the New World.

      So, considering that this happened way before anyone alive today was born, what can we do about it? It's not our fault what happened centuries ago. English Canadians and Americans also live on stolen land and that didn't stop them from becoming independent countries. I don't see them feeling guilty and moving back to Europe.
      What's the difference, for aboriginals, between a Quebec within Canada or an independent Quebec? Either way, they end up living under another power. If federalists were consistent, they would let reservations become their own countries or even give back all land including all of English Canada.

      Anglo-America treated natives (native is such a silly term, as if we weren't born here too, that's the normal definition of being native to some place) far worse throughout history (the reason New France was able to stand its ground against the much more populated English colonies for a long time was because of alliances with Indians) and a significant percentage of us have at least one distant "Indian" ancestor whereas recent immigrants don't.
      So the whole we're-all-immigrants thing is just distorting the truth. Is there no difference at all between someone who's ancestors arrived centuries ago and even has, though it only accounts for a minority of ancestors, people that have lived here for thousands of years (the natives you talked about) in their family tree AND someone who just settled here?
      If we are guilty of stealing their land, then what does that make someone who wasn't born here to a long line of people born here but instead immigrated here knowing it is land stolen from indigenous people? They chose to come here, they have a home country where they can live whereas we didn't choose and we have nowhere else to go. No, we can't go back to France. We don't even have French citizenship whereas immigrants are born with citizenship of country other than Canada.
      I'm not being anti-immigrant, I am only saying this because some immigrants accuse us of stealing land but somehow it doesn't apply to them. What's up with that? It doesn't make sense.
      You could even go as far as saying those with even just one drop of Indian blood belong here because they have blood that is native to here. Like an anchor on this continent. After all, there are already plenty of registered Indians with some white ancestry so it could be taken to an extreme.

      And the "natives" are descendants of immigrants too. Immigrants from thousands of years ago but immigrants nonetheless.

      About your list, Mohawks aren't native to Quebec. Their ancestral land is in the state of New York.
      Neither are the Wendat. They were brought here from their original land in Ontario to a place near Quebec City because they were in danger there. Ask historians. Also, many of them look pretty much totally white, their Indian blood is diluted so are they really still Wendat?
      I realize they were in North America before us but the fact remains those peoples arrived in what is now Quebec after us. If that logic were taken to the extreme, it would mean aboriginals from South America, whose ancestors went down there probably never setting foot in northeastern North America would have more of a right of being in Quebec than us who have been here for centuries.
      It all depends what indigenous people and where.

      Delete
    5. I mean look at the current chief of the Wendat:
      http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01936/Konrad-Sioui_1936689i.jpg
      http://www.cyberpresse.ca/images/bizphotos/569x379/200904/06/61420-konrad-sioui-grand-chef-nation.jpg

      I've heard him on TV speaking of white people as if he isn't white himself.
      Pauline probably has more Indian blood than he does but apparently she doesn't belong on this land and is an evil white thief whereas he's indigenous (though most of his blood is European) and we are living on his ancestral land... even though most of the few Indian ancestors he has came from Ontario after we founded Quebec City.

      Of course I realize most Indians in Quebec have a majority of Indian blood and that not all of us can claim Indian ancestry (and therefore claim to be "native" to this land like that guy does just because he was born on a reservation) but still, it's not all black and white.

      Delete
    6. Is there no difference at all between someone who's ancestors arrived centuries ago and even has, though it only accounts for a minority of ancestors, people that have lived here for thousands of years (the natives you talked about) in their family tree AND someone who just settled here?

      No, all are Canadian, and if living in Quebec - all are Quebecers (Quebecois). Unfortunately, racists use the term "quebecois" solely to denote the French Quebecois. A divided population is easily < sarcasm > governed < /sarcasm >.

      DD

      Delete
    7. "Unfortunately, racists use the term "quebecois" solely to denote the French Quebecois."

      Yes and some of those racists aren't French in any way.
      It works both ways. Plenty of minorities living in Quebec don't want to refer to themselves as Quebecois and some are even anti-Quebecois (and you know what they mean by Quebecois) by their own account.
      There isn't just racism on one side.

      Delete
    8. There isn't just racism on one side.
      Which side:
      - passes repressive/racist laws
      - continues to elect bigoted little twits
      - has no problem with overt racism its' media, schools, etc.
      - acts like Quebec is monocultural and everyone else must assimliate
      - constantly makes excuses for all of the above

      DD

      Delete
    9. "Unfortunately, racists use the term "quebecois" solely to denote the French Quebecois."

      Wait, what about Stephen Harper when he said "That this House recognize that the Québécois form a nation within a united Canada." and the great majority of MPs that approved? I don't think he meant everyone living in Quebec. Nation in this sense doesn't mean country but a people with common origins, language and culture. Not everyone living in Quebec is a part of this nation. Even the Durham report in 1838 spoke of "two nations warring within the bosom of a single state."

      What about the Globe and Mail, the Gazette and other media that often say "the Québécois" as a synonym for French-Canadians living in Quebec. I mean it's obvious it has a different meaning than Quebecers when you look at the context they use it and that's the point, if they mean everyone in Quebec what's the point of using the French word Québécois while there is the English word Quebecers?
      Are they racists?

      Let's not forget racists who use the term Canadian solely to denote the English Canadians.

      Delete
    10. C'est quoi un canayen exactement?

      Delete
    11. A twit isn't always a racist, but racists are always twits.

      DD

      Delete
    12. "acts like Quebec is monocultural and everyone else must assimliate"

      Do you realize how many anglos there are that act like Canada is monocultural and want everyone else to assimilate?

      Anglo-Montrealers are pretty much the only minority group in any province that don't have to fear assimilation.

      Delete
    13. @ OQLF

      Ça n'a aucun sens d'utiliser le terme Canayen en référence aux Canadians qui ne sauraient même prononcer ce mot.
      Une insulte envers nos ancêtres qui se disaient Canayens.
      Ils ont volé notre nom et là ils voudraient faire pareil avec Québécois (nous sommes devenus des French Canadians et là nous voilà "French Quebecois") mais ça ne fonctionnera pas puisqu'ils ne deviendront jamais la majorité comme ils l'ont fait au Canada. Pendant plus de 80 ans après la conquête nous étions encore majoritaires au Canada. Voilà la preuve parfaite du danger de l'immigration qui ne s'assimile pas à nous. Faut tirer des leçons de l'histoire, Pauline.

      Delete
    14. It has become apparent to me that I was not clear on what the Greek comparison was about.

      1) The separatists claim that there’s a need to protect the French language with racist anti English laws, even though Canada has bent over backwards to shelter Quebec culture.
      2) Greeks living under the tyrannous Turkish Empire still managed to keep their language even though it is barely spoken in manners of importance in the world. On the other hand, French is one of the top languages worldwide.
      3) This was not meant to compare Quebec to Greece. It was meant to remind us that a language remains viable if people who love it speak it without forcing it on others.
      4) This was meant to remind the Separatist Language Taliban that they do not have the kind of control on Montréal as the Turks did on Greece. What makes them think that English Montrealers will be force to renounce their language when the Greeks kept theirs while having endured so much more for centuries?

      The message here is that if you love your language, use it. Don’t force it on others because some opportunistic political leaders tricked you to believe that your English Brothers are the devil.

      Of course I see this last bit of violent push by the Separatists Language Taliban as their final assault before they are exposed to French Canadians as the bigots they really are.

      Delete
    15. "Of course I see this last bit of violent push by the Separatists Language Taliban as their final assault before they are exposed to French Canadians as the bigots they really are."

      I sincerely hope you are right. I would hate to have to leave Montreal. Coming from Europe (from a francophile country even), for the past 13 years the city has been my home.

      It would be a pain to move my house and business a bit West, but I believe I would have to, for the sake of my family, sanity and business. It's funny, i was talking a few weekends ago with some fellow 'allophones' and I haven't found one immigrant to say that they feel integrated in the French 'culture/society'. At best, they have one or two Québecois neighbours they invite once in a while, but other than that, all of them agreed that it was way easier to integrate in the 'Anglo' community, even speaking very well French.

      And I just want to point out one thing - we keep referring to these language laws as being racist. IMO, they are both fascist and xenophobic, which is far more dangerous. And a few of my francophone clients were the first ones to point that out - while telling me how their business was doing great the past few years, recuperating from the decline the followed the whole 1995 mess, and how they are getting nervous again because of the whole language crap.

      Delete
    16. "It would be a pain to move my house and business a bit West"

      L'ontario?

      Delete
    17. "French Can****s"

      Les insultes n'améliorent en rien nos relations.Svp arrêtez d'utiliser cette expression d'un autre siècle.

      Delete
    18. "L'ontario?"

      Throw a wild guess.

      Delete
    19. Anonymous writes in reference to the native question:

      “No, all are Canadian, and if living in Quebec - all are Quebecers (Quebecois).”

      Simply not the case.

      Indian status individuals have a completely different set of rights that accrue to them by virtue of that status. For example: exemption from paying income tax, right to live on reserves (something that non-Indians don't have despite mobility rights in the Constitution), etc.

      That's why they call it “First Nations”。If you have Indian Status and live on a reserve it is, in effect, like living in a quasi-nationstate different from Canada. One such First Nation, the Iroquois Confederacy, get their own passport and it is recognized by the United Nations.

      Delete
    20. The question of why the balkans didn't assimilate to turks is an interesting one.

      It has to do with
      1) the small migration of turks to balkan provinces
      2) decisions by ottomans to tolerate religious differences (even if you had less rights)
      3) greeks were the trading lifeblood of the empire, owning almost the entirety of the merchant fleet
      4) decision by the ottomans to use the greeks to dominate the other balkan christians

      If you look at Albania and Bulgaria, there was a lot more muslims/turks in those countries, but that isn't so readily visible anymore because of the ethnic cleansing that went on.

      Delete
    21. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

      Delete
    22. "Is French-Quebecouille any better?"

      Keep on insulting Quebec's majority and then complain about separatism.
      You can't say "No I only insulted separatists" this time, not that insulting separatists is okay.
      I say this as someone who has both federalist and separatist friends and relatives.
      Also anglophones and allophones in my entourage but not of the anti-French kind like you.

      Delete
    23. "Keep on insulting Quebec's majority and then complain about separatism.
      You can't say "No I only insulted separatists" this time, not that insulting separatists is okay."

      If you want to make a rule (a very European-Imperial-American trait, by the way), then one should never insult anyone. But let's face it, there is a time and a place for an insult, especially when it is well deserved as in the case of hardcore nationalists in Quebec.

      The problem is that no Francophone ever gets up and defends the English minority in this province, which is a shame. Those that do get shouted down.

      A friend of mine told me the other day that majority Francophone Quebecois are not hardcore language zealots and have no problem with their fellow Anglophone citizens. BULLSHIT! If that were the case then the Anglo minority could be defended publicly by our politicians and the Editor would be able to write using his own name.

      Delete
    24. "The problem is that no Francophone ever gets up and defends the English minority in this province, which is a shame."

      Avez-vous dèjà entendu parler de canadians ayant défendu des minorités francophones dans le ROc?

      Delete
    25. Son salaire est de combien?

      Delete
    26. Keep on insulting Quebec's majority and then complain about separatism.
      You can't say "No I only insulted separatists" this time, not that insulting separatists is okay.
      I say this as someone who has both federalist and separatist friends and relatives.
      Also anglophones and allophones in my entourage but not of the anti-French kind like you.

      But I'm not anti-French. I love the French, just not the French-Quebecouilles... nor the Anglo-Quebecouilles, or, for what matters, the Allo-Quebecouilles. In fact, the whole population stinks like the Vichy republic, when the Nazi (French-Quebecouilles) go on a man-hunt, the Jews (Anglo-Quebecouilles) just go hiding and never fight back and the rest of the population (Allo-Quebecouilles, but also the non-separatist French-Quebecouilles) looks the other way, happy not to be in the cross-hair, and giving the occasional helping hand to the Nazis. Nobody comes out with a shred of credit from this situation, neither does Canada by letting this happen and hiding behind a Constitution that's systematically ignored by the perpetrators of this sham. So it's not the majority that I'm insulting, but the totality of the population. When half a dozen inbred semi-drunk Franco-Quebecouille bozos manage, with a few placards at a hockey game, to cause more of a stir than the complaints of over a million Anglo-Quebecouille people (with real money and real economic power) over thirty years of systematic human rights abuse and soft ethnic cleansing, you've got to admit that the victims must have more than just a little fondness for their tormentors. Call it Stockholm syndrome, call it white man guilt (yes, from the Alcyon days of "Speak white"!), the fact remains that, for someone to dish it out, it takes someone else to take it, and it takes no passer-by to give a damn. That's your Quebec. So, rather than pointing out to me that not all Franco-Quebecouilles are the same (obviously alluding to your sorry self), just tell me what have you done to stop this. And if the answer is "nothing", maybe the contempt I'm showing, undeserved for some Quebeckers (notice the different denomination here), is entirely deserved by Quebecouilles like you.

      Oh, and, by the way, being a federalist is no more praiseworthy than being male or female: ideas and convictions are cheap, actions cost dear.

      Delete
    27. "(with real money and real economic power)"

      Mais tellement peureux,je me demande même parfois de quelle façon ils ont acquis tout cet argent.

      Delete
    28. No, you tell me: is there any Quebecouille who owns any sizeable company? In Quebec?

      Delete
    29. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Karl_P%C3%A9ladeau
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Desmarais
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurent_Beaudoin
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Lalibert%C3%A9
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Coutu_%28pharmacist%29

      All the hateful people in other provinces that watch Sun News or comment on the Toronto Sun's website or whatever don't even realize it is Quebec-owned.
      Perhaps they should see this logo:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sun_Media.png

      Delete
    30. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Karl_P%C3%A9ladeau
      So, he inherited the business from his Dad, who probably made his fortune when the Evil Anglos were in charge. Interesting.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Desmarais
      Here it says he was born in Sudbury, Ontario. French-Canadian, then?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurent_Beaudoin
      He inherited the business from his father-in-law, who made his fortune when the Evil Anglos were in charge.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Lalibert%C3%A9
      OK, not my cup of tea, but he made it work: all credit to him. One for you, then.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Coutu_%28pharmacist%29
      No argument.

      Two people then.

      Delete
  6. To: Anonymous Mar 27, 2012 09:51 PM

    you make good, strong, valid points but, unfortunately, the seppies that troll these boards will ignore your post on the ground of your weak french. These seppies love to deny reality. I wonder, when Kweebec does leave Canada, what are the seppies going to do when their seppie govn't installs a 90% tax rate just to balance the books?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Why is saying Kweebec OK and, say, Portugay isn't?

      Nothing against Portugal or gay people, I was just using an immature example to show how immature it is to write Kweebec.

      Delete
    2. Mr. Marco: Quebec is beyond the point of no return fiscally. Don't worry. If Polly Mahwad gets elected, she promises a chicken in every pot not to mention eliminate the RAMQ premiums and university tuition fees. To Kweebec: Good luck with all that!

      Delete
    3. Polly Mahwad?
      Are you saying Pauline is pro-muslim or something?

      That's odd, because the PQ is accused of being anti-muslim with the whole halal controversy.

      Delete
    4. "what are the seppies going to do when their seppie govn't installs a 90% tax rate just to balance the books?"

      Je crois que l'ontario va adopter votre proposition.

      Delete
    5. "Je crois que l'ontario va adopter votre proposition"

      Check out the relative debt per capita of Ontario and Quebec.

      Ontario is arresting spending to limit their long term liabilities. In Quebec the students are uprising over tuition increases. Marois is campaigning on a platform of more spending and no cuts or debt reduction.

      At the very least Ontario is being proactive. Bachand budget did make a few cuts but not deep enough to actually result in any real debt reduction, that I can see.

      Delete
  7. Hello! Clever, Portugay...clever, how long did it take you to come up with that? As a Montreal ex-pat I often meet

    1) Other Canadians
    2) Other Non-French speakers

    who cannot pronounce Quebec properly. Being from Quebec, I am able to pronounce it but I have heard several variations

    Kay-Beck
    Kwa-Beck

    and

    Kweebec

    My personal favourite is Kweebec.

    If you want to call Portugal, Portugay...be my guest. I don't understand what you're trying to achieve but, bravo? Well done?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Évidemment Canada vous l'écrivez comme il faut, n'importe quel autre nom de pays, de province, d'état, etc. vous l'écrivez probablement comme il faut mais écrire Québec (ou Quebec au pire)? Ça, jamais. Il faut utiliser un nom pour se moquer.

      Delete
    2. My favorite way to pronounce it is "Quackbec".

      Delete
  8. Partition is the only answer

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @Mr.Marcouille

      Avez-vous l'intention de revenir à Montréal?

      Delete
    2. "Mr.Marcouille"

      Héhé!

      Delete
    3. But the constitution makes partition impossible without Quebec's agreement.

      I guess it means anglo-partitionists will have to vote Yes on the next referendum and then try to get a majority of people in their town to vote to join Ontario or something.

      Cochez Oui, SVP.

      Delete
    4. I mean the Yes side has to win or else Quebec stays a province and as a province, its borders can't be modified without the provincial government's consent.

      Back in 1995 west island partitionists voted no and figured that if separatists won, then they would try partition.
      Unless you enjoy bill 101 and higher taxes, you should have voted yes and you would already be in Ontario today.

      Remember: a No vote is a vote FOR bill 101.

      Delete
    5. "Remember: a No vote is a vote FOR bill 101."

      Les canadiens anglais vivant parmi nous à Montréal sont coincés à ce point?Je savais qu'ils étaient dans un impasse mais à ce point...

      Delete
    6. Seppie, il faut les convaincre de voter oui et espérer que le droit international empêche la partition.
      Ah crotte, je l'ai dit.

      Delete
    7. As posted before:

      “P” is for PROVINCE, not for partition!!

      The PROVINCE DE MONTRÉAL Movement represents the will and sentiment of more than a million Montrealers already.

      “P” is for Province and it is about helping our brothers in the RoC to understand that we are not all ethnocentric xenophobe separatists.

      “P” is for Province and it is about helping our brothers in the RoQ understand that Our Country, Canada works!!

      We are not Québécois. Nous Somme Montréalais!

      We denounce the word partition because it is a word designed to segregate. Province is about the will of French Canadians Wanting to remain Canadian along side, and with our English and ethnic Brothers.

      Note that the legal mechanism for the 13th or 14th Canadian Province is in place and it is not treason to ask from Our Country, Canada and from The Governor General permission and affirmation of such.

      VIVE LA PROVINCE CANADIENNE DE MONTREAL!!

      Delete
    8. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

      Delete
    9. I am with you.

      VIVE LA PROVINCE CANADIENNE DE MONTREAL!!

      Delete
    10. Anonymous 05:34 AM says: "@Mr.Marcouille, Avez-vous l'intention de revenir à Montréal?"
      Abrasif 404 05:36 AM says: "Mr.Marcouille" Héhé!"

      I have a feeling that this person is talking to himself.

      Delete
    11. I have one question - it is my understanding that Qc did not sign the Constitution. Doesn't this mean that the law protecting the provinces' borders does not apply to Qc? So it would be agree for all, non?

      Delete
    12. "So it would be agree for all, non?"

      I meant "So it would be a free for all, non?" Damn autocorrect!

      Delete
    13. Tanya,

      Quebec indeed did not sign Constitution of 1982. However, it signed the Constitution of 1867, the BNA Act, the founding document of Canada. As such, Quebec is forever bound by the BNA Act. As per BNA, Constitution of 1982 is valid and binding all across Canada since it is signed and endorsed by the majority of the provinces. Therefore it is such bullshit by separatists when they say that since Quebec did not sign Constitution 1982 Quebec is not bound by it. It is akin to saying that Bill 101 is not valid in Westmount since Westmount city council and Westmount MNA did not sign the bill.

      Interestingly, Constitution of Canada is not a one single document like the United States Constitution. It consists of many sources that can be in the form of documents, conventions or unwritten principles. You can read more about it in Wikipedia

      Delete
    14. It can mean, however, that they are only operating under the Contitution of 1982 under duress - the same that Westmount can claim for bill 101.

      Delete
  9. lol couille

    Je ne vais pas retourner a kweebec.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Get moments of discrimination on camera. Defend our constitution in a more overt manner.

    ReplyDelete
  11. I just don't understand how Quebecois think they are a "race"? By definition, they aren't.

    ReplyDelete
  12. I wonder what would happen to all of the hydroelectric installation in Northern Quebec if Quebec were to separate?

    Any Natives here care to comment?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

      Delete
    2. "I wonder what would happen to all of the hydroelectric installation in Northern Quebec if Quebec were to separate?"

      I really dunno,what's hydroelectricity ??

      Delete
    3. Good point Johnny. Everyone knows that electricity and water can't be mixed. Thanks for adding to the conversation.

      Delete
    4. Hello mdblog, off topic.

      Congrats on your little girl. How are you holding up? I hope everyone is well. I've been there not long ago (under a year) and in case you need encouragement... it gets better. Or so I've heard. No, it does get better.

      Delete
    5. "Get moments of discrimination on camera. Defend our constitution in a more overt manner.

      Don't just get it on camera. Film it and then post it to the internet, i.e. Youtube.

      Delete
    6. @ mdblog,

      "I wonder what would happen to all of the hydroelectric installation in Northern Quebec if Quebec were to separate?"

      During the 1995 referendum campaign the leader of the Quebec Cree said they were ready to go to war to remain part of Canada.

      The Quebecois were unable to cope with small uprisings on two Mohawk reserves during the Oka Crisis. The Cree would undoubtedly have caused a great deal of havoc around the hydro installations situated on their territory.

      Delete
  13. Up to around 1955-60, many text books on English-French relations in Canada referred to the "English and French races".

    "Race" doesn't always mean one of the 3 or 4 major "skin colour" groups of homo sapiens. Here's the definition from dictionary.com:

    race2 noun
    1. a group of persons related by common descent or heredity.
    2. a population so related.
    3. Anthropology .
    a. any of the traditional divisions of humankind, the commonest being the caucasian, Mongoloid, and Negro, characterized by supposedly distinctive and universal physical characteristics: no longer in technical use.
    b. an arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, especially formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups.
    c. a human population partially isolated reproductively from other populations, whose members share a greater degree of physical and genetic similarity with one another than with other humans.
    4. a group of tribes or peoples forming an ethnic stock: the Slavic race.
    5. any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc.: the Dutch race.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Note the first definition (and the numerous definitions are listed in matter of priority, so the first is the most significant):

      1. a group of persons related by common descent or heredity.

      That's why I feel I am on safe ground calling the language of education provisions of Bill 101 (and section 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, for that matter) a "race law". All of the criteria of definition #1 apply to Bill 101's language of education provisions.

      In a sense, Bill 101 thus "created" a race by introducing common descent into the equation. Prior to 1977, the "English certificate race" did not exist. Now, there are individuals in Quebec (most anglophones such as myself who went to English schools in Quebec or Canada) who are related by common descent; that is, we have, through descent, obtained the eligibility certificate which is common to us all.

      Bill 101 is, indeed, a race law.

      It's a hate law, too, but that's a discusion for another time.

      Delete
    2. Gotcha.

      Then I will rephrase:

      IMO, they are racist, fascist and xenophobic, which is far more dangerous. It really doesn't sound any better ;)

      Delete
    3. "...they are racist, fascist and xenophobic..."

      À l'avenir utilisez le mot "nazi".Un qualificatif passe-partout devenu une banalité sur ce blogue mais il vous fera sauver du temps.

      Delete
  14. "Bill 101 is, indeed, a race law."

    It is a law yes and you must follow the law or else it makes you a criminal.

    Who are you to criticize the law crafted by the good doctor Laurin?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camille_Laurin

    He seemed like such a nice man. Not a single particle of hatred in his body. If he hated English so much, why did he work in Boston for a while?
    Look at him, the good doctor would never hurt a fly.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Camille_Laurin.jpg

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Camille Laurin is actually the criminal for making a law that was unconstitutional at the time and your an idiot for suggesting Anglophones and allophones are criminals for defying a law that is unjust and that deserves to be eliminated.

      Delete
    2. "Anglophones and allophones are criminals for defying a law"

      Avez-vous une meilleure définition?

      Je prévois beaucoup de travail pour nos avocats dans les prochains mois (années)...Yeahhh!

      Delete
    3. Law Abiding Citizen,

      Now you are talking about laws, explain your statement in relation with this standard legal maxim: Lex Iniusta Non Est Lex.

      Delete
    4. I guess you are right after all, Troy.

      It is an unjust law. It gives you precious privileges that not all have such as the right to send your children to an English school if you are one of the chosen ones.

      It is unfair. Everybody should have to go to French schools. We would all be equal.

      This whole time the good doctor was pro-English. He must have been under a bad influence when he worked in Boston.

      Delete
    5. "Everybody should have to go to French schools."

      But aren't you Quebecois champions of linguistic and cultural diversity? Why push for uniformity all of a sudden.

      Delete
    6. Linguistic and cultural diversity doesen't mean you don't learn the majority language, it means you don't *only* learn the majority language.

      Delete
    7. Anonymous at 23:04,

      Linguistic and cultural diversity doesen't mean you don't learn the majority language, it means you don't *only* learn the majority language.

      And they do not teach French in the English schools in Quebec?

      Delete
    8. Pre-bill 101 they did not, so it was absolutely essential then to stick allos in french schools if they were going to have any chance of learning it.

      Now? about 66% of anglos know french, so the english schools are only 66% succesful at teaching french. I presume the french schools are 100% successful at teaching french.

      Delete
  15. Je viens de comprendre pourquoi tant d'anglos se retrouvent chez-nous.Je viens d'apprendre que l'ontario est sur le point de devenir une des provinces les plus pauvres du canada.Hmmmm...Ok...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Stupid does as stupid says. Compare the debts of the two? Quebec is the problem, not Ontario who have shown some restraint.

      Delete
    2. Ontario debt : 252b with 15.3b deficit
      Quebec debt : 248b with 1b deficit

      Oh yeah, Ontario has shown "restraint". *snicker*

      'course, if pauline marois gets in...

      Delete
    3. "'course, if pauline marois gets in..."

      Good work....now compare the GDP of Ontario and Quebec.

      Also, compare the populations of Ontario and Quebec.

      Ontario is cutting and Marois plans to spend and maintain the status quo, at a minimum.

      Delete
  16. I bet that most Francophone Quebecers are actually just disregarding these reactions, in the same way that most religious conservatives in the States (but not all) disregard the wacky antics of Fred Phelps and Pals.

    The thing is, just like with the religious right, the radical minority has all the power and the loudest voice.

    ReplyDelete
  17. What is the silence majority going to say when the radical minority decides to use FLQ tactics! By sitting in silence they are endorsing the state sanctioned racism... Some democracy Canada is!!!! ( I include Kweebec in my Canada)

    ReplyDelete
  18. "What is the silence majority going to say when the radical minority decides to use FLQ tactics!"

    Ils devraient s'en crisser comme les anglos se crissent de la majorité francophone (voir le sondage de l'Actualité)

    ReplyDelete
  19. A 30 year review of Bill 101 and its impact - I don't fully concur but there are some interesting points made:

    http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/articles/macleans/bill-101-30-years-on:

    ReplyDelete
  20. Canada is a free country, you can speak whatever language you like regardless of what the Borg/OQLF say. Les Québécois are a tribe and like all tribes, the only way to become a member is to be born into it. Immigrants to Quebec give it the old college try and learn French but in the end, they all face that moment when they realize that they can never be part of the tribe. It may be a subtle racial "joke" spewed out by a Québécois co-worker or it may be a more serious incident, like being passed over for a job promotion by a less qualified "beau gars Québécois". Nationalists in Quebec pay lip service to ethnic communities, claiming that theirs is a "Civic" Nationalism that is inclusive of other Nationalities, unlike the 99% of Nationalist movements in the World. Then we get small glimpses of what their real agenda is from time to time (Herouxville, Halal-gate...). I'm convinced if the rest of North America knew (or cared) what is going on here in Quebec vis a vis State Sponsored discrimination and banning of languages, there would be a backlash against Quebec. In a way, it's already happening. There is a trend under way of firms pulling out of Quebec. Job losses are on the upswing and they aren't going overseas to China in most cases (Electrolux,Aveos,Shell....).

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    1. I think I figured it out this "assimilation" scheme. It works in somewhat the same way in other places which sustain immigration (i.e. in "host" nations), like the US, France, UK, the Netherlands, etc...

      An immigrant is asked to "integrate" but at the same time reminded that he is an "autre". It is a game that is designed to keep him confused and keep him chasing the finish line that keeps relocating further and further up.

      What the "host" nation wants the immigrant to do is not to integrate, but to constantly try to integrate, to pursue integration, to chase the goal which is really unachievable.

      Full integration is out of the question because it is not in the interest of the hosts to elevate new people to their level. Why elevate them and increase the pool with which we have to compete? Better to keep them down.

      On he other hand, it is also not in the interest of the host to have the immigrant stop pursuing integration. When they stop chasing it, they stop paying attention to the hosts, they stop paying fealty to the host, they stop being loyal to the host, they stop admiring the host, and what's worse, they may organize amongst themselves into a group that will challenge the position of the host (that's why Harel wanted to relocate immigrants to more francophone regions of Quebec, so that they are always in a minority, not in the majority as they are in their "ghettos").

      The same process is at work in other western countries, but it is more pronounced in Quebec simply because the majority here is more insecure than in other places. It is in the interest of every immigrant to arrive at this conclusion. When the British journalist Christopher Hitchens (who spent 30 years in the US) was asked in 1994 why he maintains his British citizenship and is reluctant to apply for the US one, why he would rather remain a permanent legal alien instead of an American, he said: "if I became American and then opened my mouth and said something, you'd immediately say I was British. There is no point denying who you are, or pretending you are someone else". (Hitchens did in the end become a US citizen, in 2007, but by then it was a different Hitchens altogether).

      I think Hitchens had it right in 1994. You can be very successful in your new adopted place, but you don't have to pretend you are someone else when you obviously aren't. Once you start pretending, you are not doing yourself a favor, you are doing your "host" a favor. You're giving him more credit than he deserves, while he's laughing his ass off when you're not looking.

      This is what this girl does not understand. But she will get it in time:

      http://www.cyberpresse.ca/opinions/201202/17/01-4497182-je-ne-veux-pas-etre-toleree.php

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    2. Hello adski,

      you are right in your bit about integration. I have one more thing to add. The hosts (although I do not agree to this term because it implies a temporary stay, visit, etc, and the large majority of immigrants settle in the new country, pays taxes and has every right to be involved and concerned how these taxes are spent) expect the immigrant to behave à la 1990 and prior, when an immigrant had a lot more inclination to try to integrate. Today, with internet, the immigrant tends to keep in touch with the native country or his community from far away, seriously diminishing this desire to integrate. Or, worse (according to the sep'tards) the immigrant can choose in which community to integrate, majority or *gasp* otherwise.

      What the nationalists do not seem to understand is the fact that the #1 reason for immigration is economy. #2 is personal or social security. And in extreme and odd cases, one might chose the place to immigrate based on how many times Yo-Yo Ma performs or the local Museum's of Art reviews.

      I find that the immigrants are far more secure enough of their identity than expected. I mean, one has to have a kick a*se identity to be able to pack up and leave his tribe. And while we're at it... please don't be offended that I do not fall back in admiration that you introduce yourself as 'pure laine'. Chances are I have lived in buildings older than your family tree, and I probably can trace my ancestors further down the genealogical tree, without expecting anyone to care. My apologies if I have offended anyone, however I had to mention this - it happened twice already and it was a bit awkward.

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    3. Tanya, thanks for your analysis. You seem to have your head firmly on your shoulders, which leads me to believe that you're of an allophone extraction (immigrant parents maybe?), and not of the pampered and obtuse local one.

      When you say: "What the nationalists do not seem to understand is the fact that the #1 reason for immigration is economy. #2 is personal or social security.", this brings back some memories. The very first comment I made online, some 2 years ago, was in response to a group of middle-aged 101-generation Quebecois. And I said something along these lines: "you accuse immigrants of not understanding "your people", but you have absolutely no understanding of the immigrants. The major thing you don't understand is that a person does not immigrate to fight someone else's (linguistic) battles, or pick up someone else's "cause", one immigrates for purely economic reasons. And there are only A FEW exceptions to this rule, so don't tell me about Maka Kotto or Joseph Facal."

      I also added that immigrants should be held up to learning the language, paying taxes, and obeying the criminal law. Everything else is an extra, like adopting local customs, culture, habits, mentality, etc...

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    4. "Today, with internet, the immigrant tends to keep in touch with the native country or his community from far away, seriously diminishing this desire to integrate."

      Espérons maintenant que le web les éclaireras davantage sur le choix de leur destination,question d'atterrir dans des lieux conformes à leurs besoins économiques et culturels,bref à leurs aspirations.Peut-être même éviter des déplacements inutiles :Voir nouvelle loi canadienne sur l'immigration en fonction des compétences.

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    5. Deplacements inutile. Very clever.

      Your province accepts immigrants. Then it puts them in a catch 22 situation. It demands integration but doesn't grant it. Then it scolds the people who live 'on the sidelines' but chooses to keep the 'aspirants' at an arms length. Even those whose French is immaculate are 'les autres'.

      You don't hate immigrants because they don't integrate. You hate them because they figured out your scam and stopped running after the carrot which you are pulling. Am I right?

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    6. "Your province accepts immigrants."

      Vous avez parfaitement raison mais les règles du jeux devraient bientôt se complexifiées.Nous nous devons de fermer légèrement le robinet de l'immigration et de sélectionner de façon plus serrée les nouveaux arrivants.La citoyenneté par filiation devrait être considérée par l'État comme un des points centraux de ces nouvelles mesures.

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    7. Est-ce que tu connais ces règles ?

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    8. Pas encore en détails mais tu peux jeter un coup d'oeil sur le programme de la CAQ.Quel hasard qu'ils aient les mêmes initiales que "Certificat d'Acceptation du Québec".

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    9. adski,

      thank you - I am an allo 'pure laine'; I got here almost 14 years ago.

      I absolutely agree with you, immigrants don't care that much about the local culture. they sort of pick and choose what they like and adapt it to their wants. in all these years here, i keep seeing the same thing over and over again - an immigrant with a good knowledge (or at least working-knowledge) of french land in Qc, and in two years is more than fed up with the whole language war.

      As a side story, I have a friend who tried to integrate in the Qc community. Bought a property In Rive Sud, made jokes about English, always made sure to invite francophones to his parties, voted with BQ, the whole package. Last time I saw him, about a month ago, he confessed that he started taking En classes at McGill. Why? Because he does not see a future for his two children here. That was a total shock for me and my partner. I am fully aware that this is an isolated case, however this guy was the poster child for immigrant integration. Makes one think, doesn't it...?

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    10. Certificat d'Acceptation du Québec

      What's that? Like writing "Made in Congo"?
      (With all due respect for the Congolese)

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    11. "As a side story, I have a friend who tried to integrate in the Qc community. Bought a property In Rive Sud, made jokes about English, always made sure to invite francophones to his parties, voted with BQ, the whole package. Last time I saw him, about a month ago, he confessed that he started taking En classes at McGill."

      Je crois simplement que votre ami est à la recherche de son indentité.Souhaitons-lui bonne chance pour qu'il la trouve enfin.Même si vous mangez des bols de riz et de nouilles et invitez des Chinois à vos party ne fera pas de vous un Chinois.Restez vous-même et honnête et tout ira bien.

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  21. Je prévois beaucoup de travail pour nos avocats dans les prochains mois (années)...Yeahhh!

    Ha ha ha...ben oui ....you will be out a job when Quebec finally realizes that they can't afford a piss in a boot. Can you not see the writing on the wall with regards to the economy and debt of Quebec. Say goodbye to your indexed pension or for that matter any pension. Bonne chance avec ca. LOL

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  22. Incase you missed it, there was a twitter fight yesterday between MacPhearson and Dutrizac #badanglo

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    1. I don't twitter, can someone give us some details? THX

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    2. Here's a rundown:

      http://montreal.openfile.ca/blog/curator-blog/curated-news/2012/you-may-be-badanglo-are-you-badassanglo

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  23. I think Montreal should be bilingual.

    Mouvement Montréal Bilingue

    MMB

    What do you think?

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    1. C'est pour quand le drapeau des "Montreal canadians"?

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    2. Peut-etre qu'ils peuvent voler celui de la Anglo Society?

      http://www.asnb.ca/

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    3. Yannick,merci pour le lien.Jamais vu un drapeau aussi laid.

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    4. J'avoue. Ils ont du faire un concours a la garderie locale pour le design.

      Remarque que rien n'est laissé au hasard : le drapeau est blanc et rouge (les couleurs canadiennes - aucun bleu merci!), on a la croix de St-Patrick (je me demandes pourquoi pas celle de St-George tant qu'a faier), une feuille d'érable (Go Canada go!) ainsi qu'un bon lion de la maison de Brunswick.

      Tout pour le nationalisme ethno-centrique loyaliste typique des maritimes (quoique dépassé et anachronistique).

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    6. J'espère que tu as eu le temps de lire mon commentaire avant qu'il ne soit censuré ou peut-être aurons-nous l'opportunité d'échanger sur un autre blogue "moins restrictif" ;)
      Au plaisir!

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    7. J'ai en effet eu le temps de le lire et d'approuver entièrement. L'Anglo Societé, c'est le White Power version anglo du Nouveau-Brunswick. Une pognée de vieux frustrés qui ne convaiquent personne. Ils ne sont pas pris au sérieux par la majorité anglophone du Nouveau-Brunswick.

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  24. "Mouvement Montréal Bilingue"

    Please don't rock the boat

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  25. Extrait twitter:

    "Évidemment, tu ne t'intéresses pas à la culture francophone du Québec. Un anglo simili américain de 2ème ordre."

    - Benoit Dutrizac

    Des anglos simili américains de 2ème ordre. (Des BS de la culture)

    Que dire de plus ?Sinon bravo Benoit !

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    1. It's funny Dutrizac making comments about culture. He wouldn't recognize culture even if it bit him the a*se.

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    2. His 'artistic work' notwithstanding.

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    1. Arse!

      Never give up a chance to be one I see.

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  27. They (Québécois Masters) would never agree to a bilingual Montreal, ever! Why? Because it would level the playing field in the job market. Education and work experience would suddenly come into play when applying for a position. As it stands now, horribly unqualified people (Mostly Québécois) are the manager class in Montreal. They got there by knowing the right people or just plain luck or having the right family name. I see it all the time at the company I work at and I've seen a lot of train wrecks as a result. Imagine the horror that would ensue if qualifications suddenly trumped language as a requisite for work in Montreal? An MIT grad vying for the same job as a CEGEP de Trois Rivière alum. My money would be on the MIT grad.

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    1. Or you know, if everyone both knew english and french, then the only difference would be qualifications.

      But learning a second language is like being plunged in scalding water, I know.

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    2. "But learning a second language is like being plunged in scalding water"

      Comme les écrevisses de la Louisiane.

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  29. Funny how some are trying to wrestle with this notion that French Canadians are not themselves immigrants to the geographical landmass we call "Quebec". Are these people suffering from mental illness or are they really that stupid, because those are the only two ways by which a person could gain comfort with that patent contradiction. Moreover, I found particularly rich the commment made by the asshole claiming that the Mohawks weren't native to Quebec, but had migrated here, presumably over the last few centuries. Does this person not realize therefore that, with respect to large parts of Quebec (Eastern Townships, Chateaugay River Valley, parts of the Outaouais) les hosties d'anglais were there before the French? If you want to take it down even further, I'd like to know precisely what quality of "occupation" is necessary to render one group as having lived in a certain locale before another? Is it a massive tract of land granted to a Seigneur by the King of France, on which a few dozen families farm? Is it something more substantial, like a community where roads are built, infrastructure is created, political and social institutions are developed? Is it a city with at least 2000 people per square mile? Just as an example, where I live (the Lakeshore of the West Island of Montreal), the area was built up and developed over the 20th century, overwhelmingly by English speakers. It arguably doesn't matter if a few dozen French speaking families lived in what is now Pointe-Claire prior to that. What we have known as "Pointe-Claire" since the early 20th century, has been the result of English Canada. I make no claim over the Saguenay, Gaspesie or Riviere du Loup. The skinny, mousy brown haired, moustache sporting, mullet haired assholes, wearing overly tight, acid-washed jeans can have that shithole. But if they want to claim some sort of rights due to the community who was "here first", then they better be prepared for the shitstorm that will ensue in the course of that conversation.

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  31. "I found particularly rich the commment made by the (...) claiming that the Mohawks weren't native to Quebec, but had migrated here"

    Pourtant c'est la réalité comme tous les peuples sur cette planète.

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    1. C'est vrai, les Mohawks sont des iroquois; ils vivaient avant à l'Ouest des Appalaches dans ce qui est maintenant les États-Unis. Des missionaires français les ont persuadé d'immigrer au côté français et abandonner le reste de leurs frêres iroquois.

      C'est pourquoi il y a des Mohawks aux États-Unis ainsi qu'au Québec.

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    2. Donc ce serait donc les Français qui seraient à l'origine de la présence mohawk au Québec ainsi qu'au canada j'imagine.

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    3. Exact.

      Il y avait bien sûr des autochtones d'origine locale, comme les Montagnards, les Abenaki, les Algonquins, les Montagnards, les Hurons, etc...

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    4. Dans le Canada anglais, certains des iroquois n'ont migré qu'après l'indépendance Américaine, je devrais préciser.

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    5. "Des missionaires français les ont persuadé d'immigrer au côté français et abandonner le reste de leurs frêres iroquois."

      Ces missionnaires se sont dit : Indien vaut mieux que deux tu l'auras.

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    6. Just cut it out pretending to be more than one persons holding a conversation...we all know its you who changes usernames

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    7. "Just cut it out pretending to be more than one persons holding a conversation...we all know its you who changes usernames"

      Yannick is a different asshole than the asshole who posts as "Abrasif 404", "PM sera PM, "Seppie, "OQLF", etc., etc.

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  32. Merci à nos "amis" anglos et bravo pour l'effort:

    "Place du français à l'hôpital Royal Victoria: une famille se paye une traductrice"

    http://tinyurl.com/6v2o8r8

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    1. J'ai l'impression que ça se produit très peu souvent, j'ai tort?

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    3. I and my wife are Anglophones living in Chambly. Yes, we are part of the 1.5% english minority in this town but we have never experienced any language issues. We have several friends and neighbors that are Francophones and we socialize often and enjoy each other's company and perspectives. What you have here must be a result of outsiders cruising small towns trying to make a big stupid issue out of nothing. Chambly may be 99% Francophone but there is zero evidence that we have seen that there is an anti-Anglophone element at work here. Both my wife and I work on the south shore in both langauges. No problem. YOU CAN TAKE CHAMBLY OFF YOUR LIST OF COMMUNITIES WITH LINGUISTIC ISSUES. Signed Patrick Nelson, Chambly, QC

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    4. In fact, the vast majority of the staff at the Royal Vic are francophone, the hospital has also received complaints of not being able to be served in English and complaints over language make up less than 0.5% of all complaints. Link

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  33. http://www.demotivation.us/oqlf-1281642.html

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