Monday, March 19, 2012

Does Partition Make Sense for Sovereigntists?

There's little doubt that most Francophone Quebecers abhor the idea of partition and when it comes to militant sovereigntists, just the mention of the word is enough to get their mouths frothing in rage.

I don't know if many readers recall a letter campaign back in 1998 directed at Westmounters by a nationalist group, in which some dire threats were made against the town for even thinking about partition.

The letter was all the more frightening because it was distributed by a militant group that included Rhéal Mathieu a member of the FLQ in the sixties, who served nine years for terrorist activities and who again was convicted in 2000 in relation to the bombing of the Second Cup Coffee shop. In a piece on vigile.net, he gives an account of that operation. Link{Fr}
I've gone ahead and translated the threatening diatribe, since I've wasn't able to find an English version online.
It may well be the first translation of the document. I've posted the French original online and you can read it by clicking under the image below.
THOUGHTS ON CANADIAN UNITY
See the original document in French
ON THE OCCASION OF THE CELEBRATION OF VICTORIA DAY

On May 5, 1997, the City of Westmount adopted a resolution on Canadian unity proposed by militants and described by the media as 'partitionist.' Mayor Peter Trent himself has repeatedly stated that these unity resolutions, in and of themselves, are partitionist. This resolution is actually a 'Sword of Damocles' hanging over your head. This letter is intended to make you aware of the immediate and long-term consequences of adoption of such a resolution.

In effect, you must now consider what you will do when Quebec becomes a sovereign state. You should think carefully before acting, because if your city is considering partition, it is likely that your life will become a Hell. Your situation may be similar to that of the American hostages in the embassy in Tehran, or at best, to the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.

In the very real world, what would life in a partitionist regime be like? You should be aware that should Westmount decide on the partition, the situation would be entirely different from that of Northern Ireland where there are airports and seaports. Westmount is an enclave within the city of Montreal, compared to Northern Ireland which is on a peninsula. Londonderry, Belfast and Newcastle are seaports, a stone's throw from England.

The strategic position of Westmount looks much more
like that of West Berlin under Soviet blockade than that of Northern Ireland. With one exception, however, because in Westmount you could not even attempt to move across the wall, because you are surrounded by Québec!

If you tried to partition, refusing to pay your taxes to the government of Quebec, it is foreseeable that the worst of disasters could befall you and your families. You could run out of drinking water, fuel, electricity and in short, all the amenities you need to ensure your daily survival. A political hailstorm on the city.

Is not, the first responsibility of a municipal government to provide the population basic services, such as protection against fire, water supply, traffic management, and disposal of waste water? The constitution is outside municipal jurisdiction. By adopting such a resolution, your municipality does a disservice to your best interests. It puts you in a rather untenable position.

After any attempt to partition, it is clear that collaborative arrangements with the city of Montreal on the protection against fire, the water supply, waste management, sewage and traffic would fail. Westmount Square could go up in smoke and no firefighter from Montreal would come to the rescue.

From where does the water that your firefighters need come from? Westmount does not even have potable water of its own. Why would the city of Montreal or the Quebec government provide drinking water, filtered and disinfected, to people who want to extract a piece of territory? As citizens, you would be forced to collect rain water for your household needs.

With regard to traffic management, the situation would be unbearable. To prevent smuggling as in Kahnawake, Quebec would have to establish a security cordon with  several customs stations mounted at key locations in Montreal and forcing citizens who wished to enter or leave to lose several hours a day in order to present themselves to
Quebec Customs officers.

If we consider the issue of domestic waste management, what would happen? Within two weeks, Westmount would become a dump, because the government would refuse a Canadian city, in this case Westmount, to export its waste to
Quebec.

Today, do you think you would easily find a buyer for your home if Keith Henderson, Tyler and Galganov continue to say, in agreement with your local council, they will partition Westmount, build a wall around it to isolate it from the city of Montreal? Do not let these racist idiots speak for you!

You know the motto of Quebec: "I remember." Well! We remind you that today is the 35th anniversary of Operation mailboxes in Westmount, led by the Front de Liberation du Quebec, May 17, 1963: 10 bombs, five explosions, an officer of the Canadian Army seriously injured.

Today, in Westmount, Quebec patriots came to your house to your mailbox, with an olive branch in hand, not with dynamite. As in Northern Ireland, we want peace. We took our pen to appeal to your reason.
- We demand that the Mayor Peter Trent declare that the City of Westmount is not partitionist.
 -We demand that the citizens of the city of Westmount appear before the City Council and adopt a resolution confirming that they agree to submit to any democratic decision of the Quebec people.

If the council persists in its anti-democratic path, legal action to boycott the city of Westmount could be undertaken in the coming months. These actions would be aimed at teaching Westmounters what
everyday life would be in an partitionist enclave. Obviously, in addition to the disadvantages that would befall everyone, one would expect that the market value of your residential and commercial buildings in Westmount would be greatly affected.

We do not want that to happen. Rather, we hope to receive a positive response to this call, otherwise you and we, will live with the consequences.                                        National Liberation Movement of Quebec
I'm not going to critique the letter, readers are welcome to do so, suffice to say that I reproduced it here as an extreme example of how seriously sovereigntists consider the partition threat.

But I'd like to present a different scenario today, one where maybe, just maybe, sovereigntists could possibily consider the idea of partition viable.

Here goes;
Let us for the sake of argument consider a PQ majority victory in an election sometime next year, followed by an unsuccessful referendum which again, for the sake of argument, was lost 55% to 45% margin.

Nobody can dispute that this third kick at the can will be devastating. It would be unthinkable for Pauline Marois (like Parizeau before her) to give a speech promising another referendum.

The referendum would cool the ardor of that younger generation of militants that never had a chance to vote for independence. For the older generation of sovereigntists, it would signal the end of their dream.

So where to go from there?
With the vote for independence going backwards, coupled with the demographics of immigration that sees another 40,000 federalists entering Quebec each year, even the most ardent of sovereigntists would be demoralized.

As the old saying goes, Half a loaf is better than none.


At that point the only way to achieve sovereignty would be partition.
Allow the island of Montreal to become Canada's eleventh (then tenth) province and remove all those anglos and Ethnics from voting in a new referendum, which I have no doubt will pass.

Quebec minus Montreal would be painful but would return Quebec to what sovereigntists dream it should be.
Eliminating English altogether in Quebec would force new immigrants to adopt French.

Those Francophone Montrealers who wished to remain in Quebec would merely have to move to Laval and vice versa for federalist Quebecers who wished to remain in Canada.

It's a rather neat solution, don't you think?

By the way, all those threats above......hogwash.
It cuts both ways.
It would be in everyone's interest to cooperate.

169 comments:

  1. Editor, the entire GMA should be partitioned, which includes Laval and the south shore. There are many non-francophones in those areas as well and they should have a say in the matter.

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  2. Gee, aren't delivered threats like that of oral ones against the law? Shouldn't the perpetrators of this threat have been charged?

    Oops! What was I thinking? I almost forgot I live in a modern, contemporary city and part of Canada that gets our roads paved and bridges fixed as required. In 22 years of living on my side street in Mississauga, my street, already in better condition than my street where I grew up in Chomedey Laval, was completely repaved. My street in Chomedey was originally paved circa 1962 and since then had a minimal amount of patchwork due to potholes or pipe installation. No facelift in 50 years--PATHETIC!

    Even a little bridge crossing a ravine around the corner from my home was upgraded.

    Those "fraternal" twins known as the Cartierville bridges, and for some stupid reason one looks completely different from the other, are in lousier shape than the ravine bridge in my area. The newer one, now about 35 years old, looks in lousier shape than its older sister built probably about 60 years ago.

    Anyway, I'm digressing like I often do, but let's face facts. Quebec's whole darn infrastructure is in wretched shape and that's already with $8 billion in equalization payments and billions more in other preferential transfers to Quebec that exceed what Quebec puts into the federal tax system.

    Can you imagine a Quebec without an extra $10-12 billion per year? Even if a separate Quebec raised its taxes to the combined federal-provincial rates, it would STILL be far from what they're getting right now!

    Quebec doctors right now are the lowest paid in Canada, and it's already impossible to get a family doctor in most of Quebec? Perhaps Quebec could afford to freeze or cut their fees because they have a captive workfore of doctors, nurses and other clinicians who only speak French. If they speak English, LOOK OUT! Any English speaking medical student who stays in Quebec after finishing their schooling is a complete fool, especially if their income is frozen or cut.

    Construction workers from Quebec should be prevented from working elsewhere, but a separate Quebec will assure they can't. Dairy production for the market outside Quebec will be lost, i.e., their livelihoods will be cut in half, the stronger farmers will buy out the weak for pennies on the dollar and half of them will be out of work.

    Well-paying federal government jobs in Quebec will become redundant, and that includes the military in Quebec. Most first nations people will not want to be part of Quebec and this will make Oka look like a Sunday afternoon social.

    A tough budget is coming here in Ontario near the end of the month because Ontario faces a bond rating cut if they don't take action. Quebec's is already lower than Ontario's and a separate or partitioned Quebec will see probably a drastically lower bond rating. Quebec's own Finance Department has already declared Quebec the sixth most indebted jurisdiction in the world--and to think they're still protesting increasing tuition hikes when by the end of the process they'll still be lower than in all of North America!

    I'll welcome a partitioned Quebec with Montreal and possibly the Veaudreuil-Soulange peninsula leading to the Ontario border becoming a new territory, but if, AND ONLY IF, like in the confederation, English has equal or superior official language status to that of French. For the rest of Quebec, bonne chance! You'll NEED it!

    ReplyDelete
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    1. "Gee, aren't delivered threats like that of oral ones against the law? Shouldn't the perpetrators of this threat have been charged?"

      Vous serez probablement choqué d'apprendre que la police de Westmount a escorté et protégé les distributeurs de ce tract.

      www.mlnq.org/comm/comm126/comm126.htm

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    2. "Vous serez probablement choqué d'apprendre que la police de Westmount a escorté et protégé les distributeurs de ce tract."

      C'est vrai,je l'avais oublié celle-là.Des terroristes protégés et escortés par les autorités policières.Héhé!

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    3. The colonel from the Park Avenue Gazette was brought in for questioning by the police because of his comments about Pauline Marois.

      It's unbelievable that the wingnuts from the "National Liberation Movement of Quebec" could hand deliver these written threats without any legal action being taken.

      Only in Quebec....

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    4. "The colonel from the Park Avenue Gazette..."

      Un vieillard inoffensif et presque sympathique en plus.Avouez que de voir le colonel Sanders se faire ramasser par les poulets est une situation quelque peu ironique.

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    5. Anon @ 2:09PM: You stole my words. Everytime something perverse or stupid like police escorting terrorists (if this is at all true, I'm mildly, but not overwhelmingly skeptical) or attacking the small businessman for the pettiest of alleged violations of the Great Charter of Charters, I was saying to myself and others, right at age 16, "It can only happen in Quebec!" That has been my mantra for over 35 years.

      My late mother, MSRIP, used to tell me there is no perfection anywhere, but I've said it since I moved to Ontario many, many times that indeed there is no perfection anywhere, BUT (and that is one BIG BUT) Ontario is FAR closer to perfection than Quebec could ever dream being!

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    6. "BUT (and that is one BIG BUT) Ontario is FAR closer to perfection than Quebec could ever dream being!"

      Continuez,à force de le répéter,vous allez peut-être finir par vous convaincre.

      Delete
  3. “P” is for PROVINCE, not for partition!!

    The PROVINCE DE MONTRÉAL Movement represents the will and sentiment of more than a million Montrealers already.

    “P” is for Province and it is about helping our brothers in the RoC to understand that we are not all ethnocentric xenophobe separatists.

    “P” is for Province and it is about helping our brothers in the RoQ understand that Our Country, Canada works!!

    We are not Québécois. Nous Somme Montréalais!

    We denounce the word partition because it is a word designed to segregate. Province is about the will of French Canadians Wanting to remain Canadian along side, and with our English and ethnic Brothers.

    Note that the legal mechanism for the 13th or 14th Canadian Province is in place and it is not treason to ask from Our Country, Canada and from The Governor General permission and affirmation of such.

    VIVE LA PROVINCE CANADIENNE DE MONTREAL!!

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    1. For decades, French and English people have clashed. The French always blaming the English for all their misfortunes, instead blaming their churches who told them to have babies instead of getting a better education and becoming bilingual in order to succeed in a continent that mainly spoken English, and also told them to try and stay away from the English otherwise their community and culture would disappear, instead of blaming all the Anti-English Gov'ts they have elected who continue to produce a society of Anti-English and Anti-Canadian citizens while claiming that they are doing it in order to protect the French language and culture.

      Once Québecers start to understand that the English citizens of Canada and North America aren't against the French language and that it is THEIR perception that is clouding the reality that is surrounding them, will they become happier. Their unwillingness to learn English is what is making them feel less connected to Canada. Just as we anglophones became bilingual while living in Québec, we recognize its importance and use it to become more successful. We did not lose our English culture, heritage etc etc just as if French people learned English, they too would not lose their culture and heritage. By making French people and the language come off as the language of English Haters, they are only hurting themselves and their language.

      If they cannot break away from the negative stereotype of the English community be it in Québec or in Canada, they will never be able to consider themselves proud Canadians and need to allow the English communities in Québec to partition in order to maintain our attachment to the Canada we love all while you separate and build your new Québec of the future. We can all claim to know what will happen to an independent Québec but in reality no one knows what would & could happen. I do not wish any ill will on them if separation were to come about. I am tired of all this language battle and want end this nonsense once and for all regardless of how it gets resolved.

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    2. Good going editor, you got the partition nut all riled up, he's going to cry that the end is nigh on every rooftop with his "VIVE LA PROVINCE CANADIENNE DE MONTRÉAL!"

      Delete
    3. "VIVE LA PROVINCE CANADIENNE DE MONTRÉAL!"

      Probablement la seule phrase en français qu'ils connaissent.

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    4. Nous sommes Montréalais!!

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    5. We are Montrealers!!!!

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  4. 9 provinces anglophones existent déjà et ils vous attendent les bras ouverts.Mississauga quelqu'un ?

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    1. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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    2. Even someone as slow witted as you can figure out that if Montreal becomes a Province, the number of Anglophone Provinces would remain the same, the new resultant province being BILINGUAL. In fact, there would still be 9 anglophone provinces, STILL two BILINGUAL provinces and FINALLY, FOR THE FIRST TIME, A FRANCOPHONE PROVINCE.

      Not that you'd care: if the majority language in Quebec became Arabic (as it's well on its way...), you'd ditch French in a heartbeat.

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    3. Mr. Sauga (a.k.a. Mississauga quelqu'un)Tuesday, March 20, 2012 at 1:01:00 AM EDT

      Mississauga welcomes all who come to contribute to the community and seek a better life. BTW, the mayor of Mississauga has been serving as mayor for 34 straight years who just turned 91 years old last month was born in Port Daniel, in the Gaspésie region. Bienvenue à tous!

      Bet if you visited Mississauga, you'd just never want to go home!

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    4. "Mississauga welcomes all who come to contribute to the community and seek a better life."

      Bet if you visited pleasantville , you'd just never want to go home!

      Principal tourist attraction : The World's Greatest apple Pie contest.

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    5. Pre- Bill 22, the non-francophones of Montreal had a population more than 7 other provinces of Canada (Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, N.S., N.B., P.E.I., and NFLD).

      Delete
  5. Moving on...

    We will cross the separation bridge when we get to the independence river.

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  6. Does partion (?) make sense...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Merci pour la correction

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    2. Anonymous at 04:52,

      Yes you are absolutely right. My post should read:


      Moving on...

      We will cross the partition bridge when we get to the separation river.

      Delete
    3. Mon commentaire était en en lien avec le titre de l'Éditeur (avant correction) qui était écris comme suit :

      "Does Partion Make Sense for Sovereigntists?"

      Delete
    4. @ Anonymous/Seppie/Etc.:

      I wouldn't be too hard on the Editor's spelling. Your comments are full of errors. You aren't even familiar with basic punctuation...pathetic.

      Delete
    5. Let alone basic French grammar...

      Delete
    6. "Your comments are full of errors"

      J'écris les 2/3 de mes commentaires à partir de mon cellulaire et je suis doté de gros doigts et d'une...Ça c'est une autre histoire.

      Delete
    7. Oooh, so THAT'S why you have such large wrist muscles!

      Delete
  7. J'imagine 40% de fancophones sans aucune protection linguistique sur une île isolée avec 60% d'anglos soutenu par le RoC.Imaginez le massacre...

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    1. The same thing for 13% anglophones with no language rights ... in their own country, Canada.

      Delete
    2. "13% anglophones with no language rights..."

      Mais le RoC tout entier pour eux et même les É.U...

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    3. "13% anglophones"

      5% anglos et 8% allos.Un peu de rigueur s.v.p!

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    4. TO OQLF

      Sorry to step in, but I couldn't allow this separatist misinformation to stand.
      You are mixing up language with ethnicity.
      In Quebec 87% use French as their public language and 13% use English. This from Statistics Canada.

      The 5% figure is 100% bullshit meant too diminish the number of Quebecers who use English as their public language.
      What they speak to grandma at home is irrelevant.
      There are almost 1 million English speakers in Quebec, who use the language before French.

      TRU TO DEAL WITH REALITY, NOT FANTASY...

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    5. OQLF ,

      Statistically speaking, there are about 13% anglophones in Qc. Yes, there is a smaller percentage of Anglophones whose mother tongue is English, however Anglophones are those who use English in their daily activities. So yes... allos or otherwise, there are about 13% Anglophones in Qc, almost all of them in GMA.

      Delete
    6. Sorry Editor, I don't see your post.

      Delete
    7. Anonymous at 05:54,

      Mais le RoC tout entier pour eux et même les É.U...

      Advocating that English speakers move to the United States shows ignorance and the shallowness of knowledge. As different countries, labor movements between Canada and USA is rather limited. Therefore, one can not just decide one day to pack up and move down south.

      It is just as stupid as suggesting French-Canadians to just pack up and move to the Democratic Republic of the Congo. In case you do not know what it is, it is the most populous country in the world with French as official language.

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    8. "Advocating that English speakers move to the United States shows ignorance..."

      Combien de Québécois l'ont fait depuis le début du siècle et celà même avec la barrière de la langue et de la culture?Imaginez,vous qui consommez déjà leur culture presque à 100%,le dépaysement serait pratiquement inexistant.De plus,vous n'êtes qu'à quelques Km.

      Delete
    9. Anonymous at 06:51,

      You really do not have any idea what you are talking about, do you? Are you ignorant, misinformed or simply not smart enough? Let me know when you have information about getting work authorization today in the U.S., then we can talk.

      Delete
    10. "Are you ignorant, misinformed or simply not smart enough?"

      Un savant mélange des trois ?

      Delete
    11. What a fantastic idea. I'm from the Townships originally and would back the creation of a new bilingual province 100%. I have zero interest in the Quebec separatist project and would gladly jetison parts of Quebec from Canada to rid these ourselves of these ungrateful treasonous S.O.Bs. Imagine Montreal finally free of the shakles of Quebec seperatism and retrograde language laws?

      Delete
    12. Pierre/Peter ou Pedro...

      Il n'y a qu'un troll ici et c'est moi.Retourne élever tes navets dans les cantons et je ne fais pas allusion au "canadian cinema".

      Delete
    13. better off reaping turnips rather than welfare cheques....

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    14. "better off reaping turnips rather than welfare cheques..."

      Hmmmm....Pas certain.Je vais engloutir un autre Donut et je vous reviens avec un choix éclairé.

      Delete
  8. reading the excerpt , I can't help thinking if that was written today, would the authorities have enough guts to arrest the group and hold them on Terrorist certificates...

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  9. "...in their own country..."

    Deux poids,deux mesures ?

    http://www.radio-canada.ca/emissions/tout_le_monde_en_parlait/2009/Reportage.asp?idDoc=159919

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  10. Seppies,

    Your attempt to make this about English or ethnics as did your leaders in 95 won't work. We don't see this by race as you were taught in your separatist factories to do. We are French Canadians who want this because we are not Québécois Separatists! And as we have stated:

    We know you are having a hard time with the 11th province because you know that it is not about English. It is about getting your hate out of our face!
    The majority of us who will form the Eleventh or Twelfth Canadian Province are French.

    In the same manner as you Separatists have been using an UNJUST set of rules to justify your vengeful ways, so are we now using JUST laws to prove to OurCountrymen in the RoC that we do not share in your hate for our English Brothers.

    We are not Separatist Québécois.
    Nous sommes Montréalais!!


    VIVE LA PROVINCE CANADIENNE DE MONTREAL!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. While I have no doubt there are French speakers who don't advocate the separatist project, what I also don't see is French speakers, and especially the governing party led by the self-proclaimed «Captitain Canada» during the 1995 Referendum acting any differently in its governance over its minorities t han the separatist party(ies). The only difference is one holds referendums, the other thus far hasn't, but has threatened to do so if it doesn't get its way from Ottawa.

      Aside from a number of French speakers whom I can count on one hand have said the language legislation is too harsh, NOBODY else has, or simply doesn't have the gonads to do so. Do the minoriteis therefore really have allies if nobody from the majority has the backbone to stand up for the minorities?

      Even if the answer is affirmative, Claude Ryan, not too long before his death, updated the Liberal Party "manifesto" entitled in English "Liberal Party Values in Contemporary Quebec". One thing clearly stated was collective rights trump individual rights, so as long as this is the policy of Quebec society, clearly in contrast to the rest of North America, minorities in Quebec will never be on a level playing field.

      It is primarily for this policy that French Quebeckers collectively embrace that I don't feel Quebec should even be entitled to be a part of Canada any longer, or at least lose their equalization payments and once and for all learn to pull their own damn weight.

      Delete
    2. Mr. Sauga writes:

      Aside from a number of French speakers whom I can count on one hand have said the language legislation is too harsh, NOBODY else has, or simply doesn't have the gonads to do so.

      One person who did speak up was poet/writer Jacques Renaud, back in 1989-90. Very brave of him to do so but, soon, the pressure against him from the francophone community was such that he had to leave Quebec and went to Ottawa.

      He learned his lesson not to rock the boat. It took an incredibly toll on his personal and professional life.

      Delete
  11. VIVE LA PROVINCE CANADIENNE DE MONTREAL!!

    Je viens de vérifier et on me confirme que Montréal est toujours sous la juridiction des Québécois...Ouf,vous m'avez fait peur.Seul changements ressentis : Augmentation des plaintes en rapport avec l'affichage et que nous avons augmenté nos effectifs en conséquences afin de corriger la situation.Ce qui m'amène à la conclusion suivante:Nous sommes vraiment dûs pour une application intégrale de la Loi 101.

    Bonne journée à vous et aux membres de votre secte :)

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Someone doesn't like talking about partition, really disturbs them. That is exactly what the Editor was expressing with the Blog post.

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    2. and the reason they feel so insecured about the subject being brought up is because they fear it might happen within the next couple of decades.....

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    3. Seppies are against partition because they lose their whipping boys... when they are the only people left in Quebec, they'll have to bully their own relatives! That's why there will always be an anglophone Quebec...

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    4. There is no such thing as a Quebecois. Only French Canadians. Or, as the world sees them: Americans.

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    5. Nationality is self-determined, you don't get to decide what people are. Denying people their differences is just as intolerant as excluding them altogether.

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    6. Yes, but FINDING those differences is nearly impossible!

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  12. "We know you are having a hard time with the 11th province because" ...

    ...Vous en parlez mais n'agissez pas.De plus le RoC a déjà son opinion toute faite sur les Québécois alors même si vous vous mettez à genoux devant eux et en leur parlant globish,celà ne changera rien à la situation.Ils ne seront jamais vos frères.Vous ne serai jamais qu'un pathétique petits traitre à votre Nation.Pas le premier et pas le dernier malheureusement.Vous avez dit minable?

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    Replies
    1. La Nation que Harper vous a donner?

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    2. La Nation que Harper vous a donner (sic)? Donné

      Ben oui,c'est ça mon grand.Harper a créé une nouvelle Nation.

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    3. Vous en parlez mais n'agissez pas

      How long have you been talking before you even bothered asking the question? We're still waiting for a French Quebec, never mind an independent one!

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    4. "We're still waiting for a French Quebec"

      Hé bien...Sortez de votre ghetto.

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    5. "We're still waiting for a French Quebec"

      Nous attendons toujours l'arrivée d'un parti anglo sur la scène politique Québécoise .Croyez-vous que nous le verrons au cours de ce siècle ?

      Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

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    6. Well, it's taken you 250 years and counting... we're aiming for half that!

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  13. You know a province might not be the only alternative. Maybe a autonomous region offering a partnership to Quebec. Montreal and areas of Quebec that are outside the boundaries of Bill 101. So you would have some regions of Montreal area and maybe smaller areas south, west and east of Montreal.

    In this way both the sovereignists can have their completely French speaking Quebec and Anglos and Allos would be able to live with a Quebec pre 1974 in their respected limited areas. 2 systems one province. It would be in Quebecs interest especially if they can preserve some of the tax and revenues produced from the Montreal area.

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    1. Anonymous: this is precisely what "Quebec West" is all about.

      Just click on my name.

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  14. You know you would love it if Montréal became Brussels.

    But it won't.

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    1. Damien, English speakers were also suppose to disappear from Montreal, But it didn't.

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    2. "Damien, English speakers were also suppose to disappear from Montreal, But it didn't."

      Parce que vous réagissez relativement bien à nos lois.Le jour ou vous commencerez à vous agiter l'anglouille,ce sera une autre histoire.

      Delete
  15. Great idea, where do I sign?

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  16. "Great idea, where do I sign?"

    Si j'étais vous,je me demanderais plutôt : Pour qui vais-je voter aux "prrrochaines érrrections" ?
    Pas drôle d'être obligé de voté pour Charest après tout ce qu'il n'a pas fait pour votre communauté.

    Parfois je me trouve cruel.

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    1. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  17. I can't wait for the civil war..

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    Replies
    1. Wow, bullying again? Give us what we want, how we want it, or else!

      Delete
  18. En 1938, Hitler, avec son programme de pangermanisme, veut rattacher les Sudètes au Reich, petite région allemande de Tchécoslovaquie, pour les libérer de «l'oppression» tchécoslovaque. Il promet 1000 ans de paix pour l'Europe par la suite...

    En 2012, je lis «vive la province canadienne de Montréal», néo-pangermanisme canadian visant à délivrer les anglais de «l'oppression» des français. J'imagine que Harper est votre homme.

    Vous être complètement ridicules.

    Vous voulez vraiment d'une nouvelle Irlande du Nord?? Vous voulez rééditer l'exploit?

    Le destin du Montréal est profondément lié au destin du Québec. Montréal est le Québec. Couper Montréal du Québec, c'est comme couper la racine principale d'un arbre.

    Les racines de tous sont importantes. Mais couper celle-là, c'est mettre Montréal à mort.

    Bonjour Belfast.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Belfast is a lot nicer and safer than Montreal these days... Incidentally, the Troubles in Northern Ireland happened because two incompatible groups were forced to live under the same roof, the same thing you are advocating by opposing Partition.

      Lame!

      Delete
    2. "Belfast is a lot nicer and safer than Montreal these days..."

      Et vous êtes toujours ici à "troller"?

      http://www.expedia.ca/

      Delete
    3. "Les racines de tous sont importantes. Mais couper celle-là, c'est mettre Montréal à mort."

      Most likely the case with regards to Quebec and Montreal...Whom has created the problem with language laws which discriminate a minority? The repeated referendums, language and sovereignty debate that has for the most part been a blow to Montreal which she could not totally recover. I dare say an Montreal independent from the influence of the sovereigntist movement would welcome a new era of prosperity.

      Delete
    4. OQLF, you haven't got a monopoly on trolling, just like you haven't got a monopoly on language: if you can't take the heat, get out of your sister's panties!

      Delete
    5. Le destin du Montréal est profondément lié au destin du Québec. Montréal est le Québec. Couper Montréal du Québec, c'est comme couper la racine principale d'un arbre.

      no, you got it all wrong buddy...It's actually Quebec city that happens to be Quebec's true core of existence, while Mtl on the other hand, is a complete contradiction of Qc. It would certainly be better off without the rest of the province in order to survive and boom again since it has been anchored by it for over the last 40 years..you can count it out of QC destiny for that matter.

      Delete
    6. "is a complete contradiction "to" Qc. sorry I tend to type fast....

      Delete
    7. Dommage pour vous mais Montréal est gérée par Québec et pas par ottawa ;) Ouch!

      Delete
    8. Montréal est gérée???????

      Delete
    9. Montréal est UNE ville donc ELLE est gérée

      Delete
    10. By the way, last time I checked, there's about a dozen cities in the island of Montreal.

      Delete
    11. @ anonymous 19 mars 2012 1417

      Les gens qui ont contribué au soi-disant problème de la langue à Montréal sont aussi anglais et ont sciemment occulté la réalité française de Montréal avec comme argument le tonnerre de leurs armes lors de la conquête. Logiquement, si vous supposer que l'idée de la souveraineté du Québec est un moins pour l'économie du Québec (et du Canada by the way...), que serait la souveraineté de Montréal?

      @ anonymous 19 mars 2102 1827

      Votre méconnaissance du Québec ici est manifeste. Comment affirmer une telle sottise quand la moitié de la population du Québec vit dans la région urbaine de Montréal? Le Québec, toute proportion gardée, est un des endroits dans le monde où le ratio métropole/province est le plus accentué. Virtuellement, un québécois est presque un montréalais.

      La ville du Québec est la capitale politique du Québec. Montréal est la métropole. Ce que vous avez dit est aussi stupide que dire Ottawa est pour l'Ontario et Toronto pour les États-Unis (heu...)

      Par ailleurs, sachez aussi que la dualité Montréal/Québec est proprement française et existait déjà lors de la fondation de Montréal. Nous n'avons pas besoin de vous pour une guerre de clocher.

      Aussi, les 40 dernières années ont été le signe de l'essor pour les français. Si de votre coté, cela signifie 40 ans de pauvreté, cela me chagrine. Dans tous les cas, entre 40 ans de chagrin sur les gloires passées pour l'anglais et 300 ans de mise à l'écart pour les français, faites votre calcul...

      Delete
    12. "Aussi, les 40 dernières années ont été le signe de l'essor pour les français."

      C'est justement ce que certains ont de travers dans la gorge pour ne pas dire ailleurs.Ce qui est le plus malheureux,c'est de voir cette poignée de Québécois vendus qui se rangent du coté des anglos et de leur philosophie mercantile de merde.La petite droite libertarienne prête à vendre père et mère pour s'offrir une deuxième bagnole et un spa dans leur cours de minable banlieusard.Encore plus triste,il rêvent d'envoyer leur progéniture dans des écoles anglos afin qu'ils se fassent bouffer le plus rapidement possible par la culture nord américaine,comme si nous avions besoin de celà.

      Delete
  19. Editor,
    May want to replace "Trent" with "Mathieu" in the following sentence lest one thinks Peter Trent was the terrorist!

    "The letter was all the more frightening because it was distributed by a militant group that included Trent, a member of the FLQ in the sixties..."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm quite worried about the TRENT thing....

      I fear I've been hacked. Please keep a sharp eye out for this type of thing and let me know BY EMAIL right away.....

      Delete
  20. Génial!

    http://tinyurl.com/7zajy6l

    ReplyDelete
  21. To the separatist trolls on this blog:

    The militant separatists in Quebec are a minority. How do I know this? The two lost referendums (1980 & 1995) the matter would seem to be the best factual information on the matter. You lost TWO referendums! Partition could be a way for you to get what you want; why would you oppose it so vehemently?

    Take a look at this electoral result map from the 1995 referendum and explain to me how it would make any sense for Quebec City to impose a state of affairs in regions like Montreal that are contrary to what the population wants?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Quebecref.PNG

    For all your complaining about being supposedly subjugated by the evil Anglos, you certainly don't seem to have a problem with subjugating others when it suits your own selfish desires.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Editor, I don't think that the PQ would go for partition in the conditions that you described here. They wouldn't want to let go of their most powerful city and one of the few things that's keeping Quebec barely afloat. Instead, they'd probably just impose more laws to make Montreal as unattractive as possible for immigrants and make sure that the immigrants that DO decide to come are inducted into francophone society and are forced to accept nationalist/sovereigntist beliefs. Given that it's the PQ, one guess is that they'll probably require new immigrants to go to "orientation centres" like Georges le Gal's COFINQ fantasies and extend Bill 101 to require their children to go to French schools all the way up to university, where any viewpoints presented will be required by law to be in accordance with "Quebec beliefs and values".

    Something tells me that they'd be stupid enough to believe that that, and not partition, would be what would win them their next referendum...

    ReplyDelete
  23. The concept of a subdividing Quebec into two provinces, East and West Quebec is very interesting, irrespective of the separatist issue. There would likely be huge benefits for Montreal/West Quebec which would be able to become very dynamic in every sense and be able to reinvest its revenue back into its infrastructure, regional, economic and cultural development.

    For these same reasons, the concept of a West Quebec may be very unsettling for those in east Quebec which for decades has ridden the coat-tails of the Montreal economy where most tax revenue in the province is generated.

    In terms of West Quebec boundaries, what are the options? A city state, extending to the Ontario boundary to the west, and to Gatineau/Pontiac along the Ottawa river, the US boundary immediately south, and to the Laurentian ski hills to the north. Alternatively should it extend to Trois Rivieres, the Eastern Townships to Sherbrooke, and perhaps northward. This way Montreal would be responsible for these particular regions, while Quebec City would be the centre of a region east of Trois Rivieres.

    The subdivision of Quebec into east and west could bring two francophone majority provinces in place of one, with equal or perhaps more representation in federal government institutions, though with a western province which would likely be bilingual while the eastern province may remain de-facto francophone speaking.

    To make a West Quebec / Province of Montreal work, there needs to be a political movement pushing for this who would seek to govern Quebec and have the mandate to either subdivide the province -perhaps through a referendum. One has to be skeptical if this could be achieved, but for Montreal in particular this would be incredibly empowering and may facilitate tremendous economic growth. Alternatively, the Province of Quebec - if pressed politically, could grant a charter to Montreal, similar to that which BC gave to Vancouver in the 1950s, to enable it to manage itself and its development with considerable autonomy, which would also be highly beneficial.

    I personally don't see a big down side to creating a Montreal city regional province or a West Quebec save for the tax revenue which those in East Quebec would risk losing.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No, JP, I have described the ideal. Includethe Island of Montreal and the peninsula consisting of the Vaudreuil and Soulange electoral constituencies with Highways 20 and 40 leading to Highways 401 and 417 on the Ontario side.

      It's inexplicable to me anyway why that tiny tract of land belongs to Quebec. If it did belong to Ontario, I think partition would have been on the table when this separatist B.S. started. Imagine: Crossing a bridge at Ste-Anne-de-Bellevue/Senneville over the Ottawa River or Lake of Two Mountains and you're then in Ontario. The St. Lawrence and Ottawa Rivers would serve as the boundaries for what stays with Quebec and the Island of Montreal would have been immediately adjascent to Ontario. Separating Montreal from Quebec would have been a piece of cake....IMAGINE!

      Then again, JP has his idea, I have mine, and every reader must have his/her own idea how Quebec could be carved up. That works for me too! That could leave Quebec in complete angst...works for me!

      Delete
    2. "JP has his idea, I have mine, and every reader must have his/her own idea how Quebec could be carved up. That works for me too! That could leave Quebec in complete angst"

      Not really, I don't see how a bunch of partitionists writing in their basement changes anything in real life.

      "It's inexplicable to me anyway why that tiny tract of land belongs to Quebec."
      Because back when Upper Canada (Ontario) was created in 1791, that area had a French-Canadian majority and still has one overall according to the census. What's ironic is that there are towns west of it, in eastern Ontario, that have a French majority such as Hawkesbury and others around it.

      It's not up to you to choose what would stay or become independent in the event of a Yes victory. You don't even live here, you don't even get to vote. But it's not up to me either, it's up to the people who live there. Remember how some towns declared they would join Ontario? Well good luck getting towns without an English majority to join you. I doubt many Francophone federalists would like to live as a minority in Ontario while the great majority of Quebec becomes a country so if they get to vote, unless they are hardcore federalists, they would most likely side with the Francophone separatists.

      Delete
    3. (continued)

      For example, Hudson has an English majority but all the towns that border Ontario don't. They are, from north to south:
      Pointe-Fortune (75% French)
      Rigaud (78%)
      Très-Saint-Rédempteur (84%)
      Sainte-Justine-de-Newton (94%)
      Saint-Télesphore (83%)
      Rivière-Beaudette (88%)
      Just check StatsCan if you don't believe me. Therefore if none of those towns vote to stay in Canada, the west island would be cut off from Ontario whereas they would have access to the rest of Quebec because there are bridges to the south shore. The area is split in two electoral districts and the southern one even voted Yes in 1995. The northern one (that includes Hudson) voted No but who knows what people in those particular towns voted. Every town getting to vote for or against partition sounds more democratic to me than a whole electoral district. Some districts are quite heterogeneous. You know those small towns on the lower north shore in eastern Quebec? Those that border Labrador? They are actually the most English towns in the province percentage-wise yet they are included in a mostly French riding. If partition would be based on ridings, they wouldn't be able to join Labrador if they wanted to.

      As for partition without independence, you can't modify the province's borders without the consent of the province's assembly. It's written in the Canadian constitution so you're just wasting your time.

      Delete
    4. Constitutions can be changed: France(!) did it 5 times, Canada can manage at least one!

      Delete
    5. Not to mention the usual propaganda lie that counts anyone who speaks French as a Francophone, including the bilingual anglos. Epic FAIL!

      Delete
    6. Look up Alaska! It's near Canada, you know?

      Delete
    7. "Canada can manage at least one!"

      Si Harper ne le fait pas,qui le fera?

      Delete
    8. Most of those towns have very small populations. IT would just take suburban sprawl from west island to change the demographics. St Lazare is on the way to Anglo majority and Vaudreul demographics are rapidly changing.

      Delete
    9. "St Lazare is on the way to Anglo majority and Vaudreul demographics are rapidly changing."

      Des chiffres s'il-vous-plaît.

      Delete
    10. "Not to mention the usual propaganda lie that counts anyone who speaks French as a Francophone, including the bilingual anglos. Epic FAIL!"

      Well I'm the one who posted percentages at 08:19 AM and I got them from www.statcan.gc.ca
      I only counted French as a mother tongue. It doesn't even include people who have both French and English as their mother tongues (so they're both francos and anglos at the same time), it certainly doesn't include anglos (not even those who learned French) and it doesn't include people who have Arabic or Creole as their mother tongue but know French... not that there are many of those living in those small towns, anyway. But even in Montreal they are counted as allophone.

      Why would non-French people declare French as their mother tongue and French only?

      Personally, I trust Statistics Canada. Federal propagandists and liars? I doubt it.
      Is there a better source than the census?

      Delete
    11. Vaudreuil (actually it's called Vaudreuil-Dorion) on the 2006 census: almost 74% French mother-tongue
      Saint-Lazare: almost 55% French

      Language data from the 2011 census still not available on www.statcan.gc.ca but will be later this year.

      But Vaudreuil-Dorion) doesn't border Ontario:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vaudreuil-Dorion_Quebec_location_diagram.PNG
      and neither does Saint-Lazare:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Saint-Lazare_Quebec_location_diagram.PNG

      Will towns on the border vote to join Ontario or will they refuse to end up like those west of them, refuse to become Franco-Ontarians, a minority in a mostly English province?
      Will suburban anglos move to rural towns?
      Who knows.
      I think it's pointless to speculate about this, all that matters is the vote, if there is a vote on this one day.

      Delete
  24. The really interesting thing here is that the Seppies don’t want to lose Montréal because they need to have it as the slave that could financially legitimize their hateful separation project. They know that with Montreal they can try for separation and without it, they could never separate.

    The separatists are so few, that once their whipping boys have become La Province Canadienne De Montréal, the French Canadians that would remain in the RoC would quickly turn on the treasonous racists and vote against any separation from OurCountry.

    This is why Editor is removing separatists trolling and threatening posts. Being on the ropes is no fun and it makes them convulse in their rage of hate.

    So, we separate the Separatists from the French Canadians and learn to live like brothers or,
    VIVE LA PROVINCE CANADIENNE DE MONTRÉAL!!

    ReplyDelete
  25. PQer Jacques Brassard once said 80% of Quebec's industry is located on the West Island.

    If true, this is why the PQ will never part with any part of Montreal.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No, that's not why.

      The reason why the PQ would not be willing to part with any part of Montreal is because that would violate Tony Kondacks' theory. And that's simply unacceptable.

      Delete
  26. "This is why Editor is removing separatists trolling and threatening posts"

    Comment faites-vous pour évaluer le pourcentage de commentaires exclu et surtout leur origine ?

    ReplyDelete
  27. Je crois que nous devrions renégocier avec les Terre-neuviens/Labrador ,avec ce territoire réintégrés au nôtre,nous aurions une délimitation de pays presque parfaite.Imaginez la puissance Hydro-électrique que nous deviendrions.Ça parle quelle langue les habitants de Terre-Neuve?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Only Newfoundland? And you call yourself an ambitious Quebecois?

      I think the Quebecois should grab their pitchforks and reconquer the whole of North America. That would restore pride to the French language and the French people. Because it is a travesty that such a distinguished language, spoken by such distinguished bearers of such distinguished culture, is lingering on the side with nobody paying any attention.

      How dare these people overlook the Quebecois? How dare they be so indifferent?

      Such insult can only be corrected with force.

      The Quebecois, to the barricades!!! It is time to act.

      Delete
    2. Euh, ils parlent anglais alors je doute qu'ils veulent.
      Par contre, nous pourrions annexer une partie du Nouveau-Brunswick.
      Voici une carte montrant les langues:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nouveau-Brunswick_langues.PNG

      Il y a des bouts qui empêchent le territoire d'être uni, par contre.

      Dans l'est ontarien aussi il y a une partie qui touche le Québec et qui est à majorité francophone.

      Delete
    3. In English: I'm saying the French parts of New Brunswick should join Quebec and that way Anglo-New-Brunswickers wouldn't complain about their province's official bilingualism anymore and everybody would be happy.

      If both Quebec and New Brunswick agreed the borders of the provinces could be changed.

      Delete
    4. Nous pourrions ainsi accorder une tarification Hydro-électrique réduite pour nos frères francophones.

      Delete
    5. Though the Francophones in New Brunswick and eastern Ontario have to ask themselves where they are better off. If they join Quebec alot of the extra funding for their institutions they get as an official minority in these provinces would get cut. Their taxes would go up quite a bit as well. So far I haven;t heard any partition talk on their end.

      Delete
    6. "Je crois que nous devrions renégocier avec les Terre-neuviens/Labrador ,avec ce territoire réintégrés au nôtre,nous aurions une délimitation de pays presque parfaite.Imaginez la puissance Hydro-électrique que nous deviendrions.Ça parle quelle langue les habitants de Terre-Neuve?"

      I have travelled to Labrador on several occasions. The people there speak English and many are originally from the island of Newfoundland. Many of them detest the Quebecois and they have no desire at all to join Quebec.

      The northern two-thirds of Quebec was originally part of Rupert's Land and was only given to Quebec in trust after it joined confederation. This area includes all of the James Bay hydro-electric installations. In the event of Quebec separation, this entire area should be partitioned and made part of an expanded province of Newfoundland and Labrador. I'm sure that a large number of the aboriginal people living in the northern region of Quebec would prefer this rearrangement.

      Quebec would then lose most of its hydro-electric power generating capacity.

      Delete
    7. "Many of them detest the Quebecois and they have no desire at all to join Quebec."

      Nous avons développé une certaine expertise en négociation avec ce type de communauté éloignée.Le temps venu,nous leur ferons des propositions ($) qu'ils ne pourront refuser.

      Delete
    8. So you'll rob them and offer them their own money?

      Delete
    9. Anonymous 12:23, you'd give up your bs check to pay off the Indians?

      Delete
    10. "So you'll rob them and offer them their own money?"

      Nous appelons ça la méthode anglaise.Nous avons appris beaucoup de chose des anglos en 450 ans ;)

      Delete
    11. "you'd give up your bs check to pay off the Indians?"

      Je crois qu'ils ont déjà leur part :)

      Delete
    12. "this entire area should be partitioned and made part of an expanded province of Newfoundland and Labrador..."

      Croyez-vous que les Terre-Neuviens (Newfies) auraient l'expertise nécessaire afin d'activer les turbines?

      Delete
    13. No problem. The Newfoundlanders already manage the Churchill Falls hydro installations in Labrador.

      Delete
    14. "Churchill Falls hydro" ?

      Je crois que la génératrice de mon garage génère à peu près le même Kw/h.

      Delete
    15. Le problème est que nos intallations sont en français et je viens d'apprendre que les Newfies sont anglos.

      Delete
    16. "je viens d'apprendre que les Newfies sont anglos."

      Tu pensais qu'ils parlaient quoi, le newfie?

      Et je dit ça étant un "seppie" moi aussi. Faut connaître tous nos voisins, savoir qui et quoi nous entoure.

      Delete
    17. "Tu pensais qu'ils parlaient quoi, le newfie?"

      À vrai dire,je ne me suis jamais vraiment posé la question.J'avais la vague impression que c'était un peu comme le Nouveau-Brunswick : Un étrange mélange de deux langues superposées.

      Delete
    18. "I have travelled to Labrador on several occasions. The people there speak English..."

      Par simple curiosité et sans aucune méchanceté aucune,vous comprenez ce qu'ils racontent ?

      Delete
    19. "Many of them detest the Quebecois and they have no desire at all to join Quebec."

      Ils seraient donc comme les anglos du Québec.MDR!

      Delete
    20. No, Newfoundland is not like New Brunswick. Yes, they can speak French. However, that is from being taught French in school. English is the mother tongue of the majority of the population. There are French pockets in Newfoundland. That stems from French fishermen fishing for cod off Newfoundland's banks since the 1600s.

      Delete
    21. "No, Newfoundland is not like New Brunswick.Yes, they can speak French."

      Merci pour le renseignement,c'est gentil.

      Thanks!

      Delete
    22. Are you unaware that the French language is part of the school ciricumlum of every school across Canada? Saying that Newfoundland is like New Brunswick because people can speak French is like stating that British Columbia is like New Brunswick because they can speak French. Linguistically and culturally New Brunswick and Newfoundland are very, very different. Approx. 98% of Newfoundland's population identify English as being their Mother tongue. The newer generations have had French drilled into their heads at school. Before that (1950-1970s), Latin was the second language being taught at schools.

      Delete
    23. Please, high school students who take "French" in anglo schools can hardly count to 10 in that language. Compare that to ROC francos who read&analyze novels like 1984 or Lord of the Flies in their high schools. There is no comparison.

      Delete
    24. By the way - Newfoundland is the least bilingual out of all provinces and territories, boasting a 0.1% population of francophones and 3.7% bilingual population.

      It's the province least able to speak french.

      Delete
  28. Voici un commentaire intéressant d'un utilisateur de Youtube:


    "我不是阿拉伯人。英语,英语,英语,什么都是英语,你们以为每个­人都会讲英语吗?Seriously, I'm sick of people on YouTube telling people to learn English or they should get off YouTube. Seriously? YouTube is not only meant for people who speak English! You guys seriously think that everyone is fortunate enough to learn English, which may not be their first language? On other foreign videos, you guys make fun of people's English, accents, telling them to learn English, put subtitles, so that you guys can understand. Just stop, please!

    RarestName"

    Un de ces jours les Chinois et les Arabes en auront assez de se faire imposer une langue étrangère et de se faire traiter d'imbéciles parce que leur langue est différente du globish.

    ReplyDelete
  29. @anon 11:07

    Why don't you comment in English on an english webblog?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Parce que l'Éditeur de ce blogue n'est pas un raciste tel que vous?

      Delete
    2. You, on the other hand...

      Delete
    3. Abrasif, then in that case vigile and all the pur laine run sites are racist because only french commentary is permitted?

      Delete
    4. Le Devoir won't let me comment in English, but The Gazette posts French comments. Just sayin'

      Delete
    5. Je crois qu'il ne sont pas racistes,je crois plutôt qu'ils vous trouvent antipathiques et arrogants,rien de plus.

      Delete
    6. Abrasif 404,

      So if someone writing in English to vigile.net, Louis Prefontaine, Imperatif-francais, SSJB, MQF, Le Devoir is antipathy and arrogant what do you say about someone writing - sorry, trolling - in French to No Dogs or Anglophones?

      Delete
    7. Faites une requête auprès de l'Éditeur de "no dogs" (si ce n'est déjà fait) afin qu'il réglemente en ce sens et je me conformerai à la règle et n'écrirai plus sur ce blogue.Je crois que mes "comparses" francophones feront comme moi.Pour ma part,je suis du genre à respecter les lois.

      Delete
    8. "Le Devoir won't let me comment in English"

      Tout simplement parce que vous n'écrivez pas dans la langue officielle du Québec.Le Toronto star rejette les commentaires écrits en français.

      Delete
    9. Anonymous at 17:26,

      Le Toronto star rejette les commentaires écrits en français.

      Do you have any evidence to this statement or do you just make it up? I do not know if someone ever wrote to Toronto Star in French, but someone did to the Globe and Mail and it was posted.

      Delete
  30. A "how's Quebec viewed by Canada" survey was released last week. Sponsored by Quebecor. I thought some people here might be interested looking at it. It's in French:

    http://www.legermarketing.com/admin/upload/publi_pdf/Rapport_Sondage_AQMI_Quebec_vu_par_le_ROC_11mars2012.pdf

    Support for "Quebec becoming an independant country" in Québec is at 45% (interestingly 24% in Alberta).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm in the process of going through the 25 page document Le secessionniste links to looking for the "independent" quebec he cites above and came across the following question on page 12:

      Question 5 – Par rapport aux autres provinces canadiennes, avez-vous l'impression que votre province reçoit sa juste part au sein de la fédération canadienne?

      Tied with Alberta (which, justifiably, feels it is always sending more out of the province than they get from Canada and is therefore not getting its fair share), wanna take a wild guess which province feels it is not getting its fair share out of Canada?

      Yup.

      Delete
    2. Oops...make that "tied with Atlanta Canada"...I read "Alt." as "Alberta".

      Whatever. You-know-who came in tied for first.

      Delete
    3. From page 20 of the sondage, the question was asked:

      Question 12 – Si vous aviez à choisir, préféreriez-vous que le Québec reste dans le Canada ou devienne un pays souverain ?

      45% of Quebecers responded that they would prefer that Quebec become an independent country.

      Uh, gee, that's 90% of the way to 50% plus one in a sovereignty referendum, the threshold that the NDP, the Liberal Party of Quebec, and the PQ believe is enough to unilaterally declare independence.

      Gosh, 90% of the way there...hmmm...isn't everyone saying that we are at a low point of support for sovereignty and it's a dead issue?

      Never been more alive, it seems to me...

      Delete
    4. Well, I suppose the question becomes one of total separate nation of the ambiguous soveignty association which was sold in 1995. Ya know the one. Where currency, passports etc etc would be shared.

      On the other hand take a look at the percentages of people om the ROC, responding to the Question if Canada would be better off without Quebec? 21% think better, 40% indicate no change...

      Delete
    5. You can also read Lisée's take on the survey. Notwithstanding the fact he gives a separatist spin to most news, to my humble opinion he does a pretty good analysis of the situation on this one:

      http://www2.lactualite.com/jean-francois-lisee/quebeccanada-les-chemins-du-divorce/12187/#more-12187

      Delete
    6. ... and here's the other poll. with the support for the Qc 'independence', all the results from 1998.

      http://www.legermarketing.com/admin/upload/publi_pdf/Intentions_de_vote_referendaire_au_Quebec2012.pdf

      Delete
  31. Question 9: D'après moi,une des questions clé du sondage.

    "Perceptions de l’évolution des relations entre le gouvernement du
    Québec et le gouvernement fédéral"

    Relations dégradées - Q: 54% Can: 19%

    ReplyDelete
  32. Out of topic.

    To continue my comment Sunday about kosher / halal meat vs. Quebec values, it is now becoming a free-for-all at vigile.net. It really makes me wonder, why does it bother them very much?

    Editor and Mississauga Guy, while you may not be bound to kashrut anymore, but I think what is there may be of your interest.

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  33. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  34. A new report from MoneySense magazine just came out ranking the best cities to live in Canada. Ottawa ranked #1 for the third year in a row. No cities in Quebec ranked in the top ten....not surprising.

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    1. No cities in Quebec ranked in the top ten....

      Pourriez-vous faire circuler un lien auprès des 40.000 immigrants qui débarquent au Québec chaque année :D

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  35. There are 40,000 immigrants to Quebec because Quebec has a specific quota vis a vis the RoC, and the requirements are easier for most immigrants to get into Quebec than anywhere else, particularly if they are francophone, or from a country which is a member of the francophonie, or are not English speaking ie the type of immigrant with the hightest likelihood of integrating into into francophone rather than anglophone culture. This doesn't apply to family class immigrants though due to the nature of this type of immigration joining existing families, or those who come to marry, or are married to, someone specific. Under the PQ, immigration was cut back particularly in the late 1990s, but now under the liberals it has been much increased.

    Aside from this, and going back to the discussion on creating a Province of Montreal, my earlier post was not focussed solely on creating an anglohone/francophone split, but thinkng more bradley than this, of creating a distinct Montreal-centred province which would be focussed on the economic, social and cultural development of the city and allow it to escape the yoke of Quebec city and its politics so that it could be dynamic, prospor and grow again in its own unique way. I believe there are as many francophones who would wish this as anglophones, and that Montreal could once more become a serious global city rather than the provincial type city it has become in recent decades. The question in my mind thereafter is what are the boundary options for such a Montreal-centred province - should it be the island, a part of the island, just the SW corner of Quebec and the Ottawa valley, or should it be larger, perhaps extending to Trois Rivieres and the west section of the Eastern Townships.

    Also, if you look at a map of those provincial ridings that voted clearly against Quebec being independent, you will see that practically the whole of the SW area of Quebec did not want to seperate. (Even parts of Quebec City were federalist and if I recall correctly Quebec City as a whole voted by a small majority to remain in Canada - though please correct me if my recollection is incorrect)

    Anyway, I think it would be to Montreal's great advantage to have more autonomy over its development than it currently has, but I'm sure this would be strongly resisted by Quebec City and eastern Quebec interests who would feat the loss of tax revenue from Montreal to themselves.

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    1. According to Wikipedia, majority in Quebec City voted 'yes'. The heaviest 'no' votes were in the western part of Montreal island and in the southern part of Outaouais. The heaviest 'yes' votes were in Saguenay-Lac Saint Jean.

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  36. JP,Vous êtes incapables pour l'instant de changer le nom d'un bout de rue du centre-ville sans une tollé de protestations.Incapables aussi de réunir 12 anglouilles pour protester contre la loi 101 et celà même avec 6 mois de préparation.JP,qu'est-ce que vous consommez?De l'ecstasy?

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  37. @Troy: I saw the same Wikipedia page, but there are not numbers for the riding results. I searched for these stats but with no luck. They used to be on the web and were certainly published in newspapers of the time. It would be good to see a table of these results again. A quick look at the map on the Wikipedia article shows that the section of Upper Quebec City along the Grande Allee was pro-Canada.

    @Abrasif 404: I input on this forum in the spirit of a discussion forum and sometimes its good to think and debate issues "outside of the box" so to speak. Perhaps the idea has legs, perhaps not. However, I don't think for a second that the Provincial government of Quebec desires a partition of any sort, whether inside or outside Confederation, and I say so.

    This said, I firmly believe that Montreal including its region has seriously suffered in recent decades due to provincial politics in the broadest sense and like some others I can see that that for Montreal to be a city-province so to speak could be very positive. The city's prosperity was largely based on being a gateway/hub and service/manufacturing centre for the whole of Canada, not simply for the province of Quebec - its big economic boom of the late 19thc was directly due to Confederation, and its relative decline in the past 40 years has been due to insular provincial politics - for better or worse. If Montreal wants to be a great city again, which it has the potential to be, one approach may be to reposition itself within Canada as a city-province. This could be exciting for all people in Montreal and the immediate region. Similar ideas have also been raised in the Toronto / Greater Horse-shoe region. Do you like the idea of a Montreal province or does it horrify you, that is my academic question?

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    1. I found these stats - if you already saw them, sorry:

      http://faculty.marianopolis.edu/c.belanger/quebechistory/stats/1995ref.htm

      There was a yes majority in Qc City, but I would have expected a bigger percentage of yes votes. Adding to these results the fact that a lot of people voted yes assuming that here would be some sort of administrative and economical partnership with Canada it means that not that many people voted to actually separate from Canada.

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  38. I think one important thing that comes out of this is that the separatists get an opportunity to know how the threat of separation feels. Notice how disparately they want to keep Montreal even though they hate LesMontréalais?
    Perhaps they can better appreciate Canadians wanting to keep OurCountry united!

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  39. "Notice how disparately they want to keep Montreal even though they hate Les Montréalais?"

    Faites gaffe de ne pas confondre contenant et contenu.

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  40. Thanks Anonymous for the link: http://faculty.marianopolis.edu/c.belanger/quebechistory/stats/1995ref.htm

    I stand corrected regarding the 1995 election results, but observe that Quebec City with an overall 54.4% yes vote in a city with 96.6% francophones in a provincial capital/government city was hardly at the vanguard and providing leadership to the separatist movement.

    Re: Montreal/Quebec relations - Over the years working in organisations connected to both cities, I have been amazed at the antipathy between the two cities, particularly from Quebec towards Montreal.

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