Friday, December 2, 2011

Language War - Part Deux

In my last post, I promised a blog piece today, entitled "The Coming Language War," but alas, it seems that events have trumped that prediction and the opening salvo has already been fired.

In both Monday's and Wednesday's posts, I warned both francophones and anglophones that the addition of 26 more employees at the Office québécois de la langue française and the subsequent fielding of many more language inspectors would be the proverbial ill wind that brings nobody any good.
And so it seems that my prediction has unfolded much more quickly than I anticipated!
Montreal sign war hinges on whether 'import' is a French word 
It is a modest sign hanging outside an equally modest fair-trade furniture store in Montreal, yet it has become a matter of great import to Quebec’s language guardians.
Kif-Kif Import, a family-run business that sells furniture and decor knick-knacks from around the world, has run afoul of Quebec’s French-language protection agency over its sign. The problem is not so much with Kif-Kif. It’s the word “import,” which officials from the Office québécois de la langue française insist is not French.
And that, storeowner Elie Bendavid says, is simply off-base.
Mr. Bendavid’s store on Montreal’s bustling Mont Royal Avenue sits next to a Subway restaurant and kitty corner from a Canada Trust, which both affix their English names in large letters on their signs. His establishment is a negligible player in a city whose commercial landscape is dominated by chains like Best Buy, Banana Republic, Home Depot, American Eagle Outfitters – and Pier 1 Imports.
Not only does Mr. Bendavid say he is being unfairly targeted, but he consulted a linguist who insists that the word “import” is, in fact, French; it’s in the dictionary.
“I believe the Office didn’t do its homework,” said Mr. Bendavid, whose mother tongue is French, and who teaches at the French-language Université du Québec à Montréal.                                        Read the rest of the story in the Globe and Mail
And there it is readers, the perfect language storm!

An OQLF inspector harassing a small ethnic merchant over the vagueries of one French English contentious word.. HOW SWEET!

The higher-ups at the OQLF must be sitting around the conference table, banging their heads on the table, agonizing over the shear lunacy and poor decision-making of an over-zealous language inspector picking this type of a fight.
Lost on the OQLF is the ironic fact that KIF-KIF IMPORT is sandwiched(pardon the pun) between SUBWAY and a CANADA TRUST!

While most francophones believe in supporting the French language, most would agree that going after a pipsqueak over one disputed word is the height of stupidity or stupidité, if you will.

As the story goes viral, it becomes more and more an utter humiliation to mainstream francophones.

And of course, the only beneficiaries is the small cadre of language fanatics who embrace this type of confrontation as a desperate strategy meant to poison English/French relations and thus raise the chances of building enough support for sovereignty.

Are we to return to the bad old days of confrontation with language inspectors and clogged courtrooms with recalcitrant Anglos refusing to capitulate?
Will we see a return to scenes of OQLF inspectors being accosted as was the case in Shawville where in 1999, a posse of militant English-speakers chased an OQLF inspector out of town during a showdown over French on business signs?

Methinks, YES.
The addition of so many more inspectors can only be a recipe for disaster.

One thing is for sure. Anglos are not frightened. With social media, outing and humiliating language cops will become the preferred method of defence.
Mr. Bendavid has clearly shown the OQLF what they are in store for.

I'll have a lot more to say about this subject in the future.

Meanwhile I'd like to comment on a newspaper story written by the  insufferable blowhard Jean-François Lisée,

Bank prez tells language militants to buzz off
Whenever companies or government organizations come under attack by French-language militants for being lax in the application of French in the workplace, the usual scenario is for the company to grovel publicly and promise to do better in the future.
That's what happened over at the Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec, when the government agency, charged with investing the public pension plan's nest egg, was found to have in its employ two highly-placed unilingual anglophones.
This set off a short-lived witch hunt which resulted with the outing of one more such boss over at the National Bank, where not only was the head of the IT department discovered to be unilingually English, but also that the whole department operated in English.

The story was the object of a column written by separatist columnist Jean-François Lisée, who called the bank to task for not supporting French in the workplace and living up to its moral obligation to operate in French. As you know, the bank as a federally chartered institution is not subject to the application of Bill 101.

Where the story takes an unfamiliar turn is in the reaction of the bank president, Louis Vachon who  remained uncharacteristically unapologetic and promised only halfheartedly to do better.
To the criticism levelled against the bank, Mr. Vachon remained stoic, diplomatically lecturing those who complained, on the realities of the business world.
"Our business model is highly centralized. We serve our customers from outside of Quebec and internationally from Montreal. We created these jobs in Montreal. Yes, we operate partly in English, but we will not apologize for having created 500 jobs in Montreal! Other companies have branch offices in Toronto. I'm not sure that is to Montreal's benefit " LINK{Fr}
I'm not sure Mr. Vachon was blunt enough, what he was saying is that while other banks shipped off English departments to a Toronto branch office, the National Bank preferred to keep the jobs in its Montreal head office, even if it meant running an English department. He then questions which scenario best serves Montreal's interest, English jobs in Toronto or English jobs in Montreal.

Converting these English jobs into French jobs, as Mr, Lisée demanded, was off the table, in that respect Mr. Vachon was clear, the bank had made a business decision to run the IT department in English, either in Montreal or Toronto, take your pick.

In response to this explanation Mr. Lisée went onto a prolonged done-me-wrong whine, lecturing the bank president why it was a poor business decision to move jobs to Toronto. (because Toronto is too expensive a city)
As if he understood nothing Mr.Vachon said, he went on to advise the president that those who work in Montreal in English and refuse to learn French after a reasonable period, should not have their contracts renewed.
It seems that Mr. Lisée didn't get the memo written by the bank president. Perhaps it was in English.

Maybe this is what Mr. Lisée prefers, its been going on for thirty-five years;
Oct 29, 2011"Air Canada confirmed Friday it will move 130 flight crew scheduling jobs from its Montreal headquarters to a new main operations centre in Toronto due to open in 2014" Link.
Mr. Lisée's prescription to force French upon all head-offices operating in Quebec fails to account for free will.
He, along with his separatist confreres, fail to understand or care, that companies who don't like the arrangements, are apt to move operations to friendlier environs.

Readers how many thousands upon thousands of well-paying jobs have been shipped out of Quebec?

It all started in 1977 when Sun Life, the province's biggest employer of Anglophones, announced that it was moving out of Quebec because of Bill 101, after 110 years of continuous operation in Quebec.
It was the start of a corporate exodus that shifted the financial center of Canada from Montreal to Toronto. In the four months after the imposition of Bill 101, 91 companies moved out of Quebec. Link

While institutions like the Royal Bank and Bank of Montreal officially remain based in Montreal, the reality is that they are empty shells, the real operational center moved to Toronto surreptitiously, just like Air Canada and hundreds of others.

To this, how do French militants like Mr. Lisée react?
With nary a sigh, wishing good riddance to those who won't conform, telling all who will listen that Quebec is better off without these arrogant English bastard companies.

After all, wealth creation and jobs are not a priority in Quebec as long as the bills are paid for by deficit spending and equalization payments from the rest of Canada.

As for the proposed boycott of the bank called for by the separatist Guy A. Lepage, television host of the popular television talk show "Tout le monde en parle," I imagine it would be as ineffective as a call to boycott his show.

By the way, the hoity-toity separatist makes his living on the backs of federalists in the ROC who pay the bulk of his salary at the CBC's French division, Radio-Canada, which is vastly over-funded.


At any rate, Quebeckers are NOT from the big boycotters and have remarkably short memories.
Think I'm kidding?
To Francophones of all political persuasions, Sun Life was the embodiment of a bad corporate citizen for moving out of Quebec so publicly back in the day.

Venomous calls for boycotts of all manner were announced by unions and all manner of associations.
The bad blood engendered seemed to doom the company's operation in Quebec forever.

But forever is a long time. Today Sun Life is back again in the public's good grace.
Without any complaints from the separatist peanut gallery, Sun Life announced last week it would sponsor a project to rehabilitate the vast concrete plaza in front of the moribund Olympic Stadium, to be named... you guessed it...
"l'Esplanade Financière Sun Life"

118 comments:

  1. Still working at this hour allows me to write the first comment :)
    ...so Mr. Sauga, you lost again :) ( a joke of course )

    Editor, I have to admit this is one of the best articles you have posted in awhile.
    Perfect examples of how OQLF ( among others ) damages not the image of Quebec but the life itself in our province...
    We all suffer, francos (the lucid ones ), anglos and allos...

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  2. I have to agree with the post above. Not many people will argue that this is not a silly battle to fight over.

    Especially since import is french, though I believe that it would have to be written "imports" with an "s" in French? Still, knowing when the bend the rules is important if you're a bureaucrat.

    I have to thank you for a post that's much less marred by moral commentary than your previous ones.

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  3. Calgary Anon:

    Your no judge of morality. You have a clear bias and it shows in your posts. Reminds me of a Franco American who didn't know French but supported bill 101 despite the fact out of Ethnic solidarity.

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  4. I'd posted a link to this blog in the Globes' comment
    section (the import story), it got removed! Wonder why?

    DD

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  5. I've never seen an OQLF inspector. Does their uniform incorporate a brown shirt?

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  6. "As you know, the bank as a federally chartered institution is not subject to the application of Bill 101."

    Effectivement,c'est une question de morale et de loyauté.Semble-t-il que plusieurs anglos ignorent ces concepts.

    Un message aux angryphones: SVP résistez afin d'alimenter les médias pour que tous les Québécois soient conscientisés sur le fléau anglo qui envahit notre ville.

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  7. "I've never seen an OQLF inspector. Does their uniform incorporate a brown shirt?"

    Non,seulement un joli calepin de contraventions pour vous soutirez quelques "Brown dollar bill".

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  8. Editor, what happened to the post about Sherwin Tjia, which appeared yesterday for a couple of hours before it was taken down. It looked like work in progress, but I find it made a few interesting points, and the couple of reader comments were good too, as were the hyperlinks to a couple of francophone websites critical of Jean Francois Lisee.

    Will you be putting out that post next week?

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  9. @ 8:58am & 9:07am

    Learn to press the space bar more often, if you're such an ardent defender of the French language.

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  10. "With nary a sigh, wishing good riddance to those who won't conform, telling all who will listen that Quebec is better off without these arrogant English bastard companies.

    After all, wealth creation and jobs are not a priority in Quebec as long as the bills are paid for by deficit spending and equalization payments from the rest of Canada."


    You couldn't be more right editor, and it's frustrating that they don't even see (or don't want to admit) that they are destroying their own province, and jeopardizing their childrens
    futures.

    I think the separatists also expect that these "english businesses" will be handed over to them (by law if necessary) following a successful referendum. They saw utilities owned by "méchants anglais" get nationalized into Hydro-Québec, it's a perfect scenario! (as long as someone else pays)
    That's why they don't mind when businesses move out, they figure it'll be more work for them. Problem is that French Québécois aren't very big on hard work, business, and risk.

    And the French Québécois businessmen who do make it, are then considered just as bad as the "méchants anglais" once they do make it. Think of any rich French Québécois.

    Even though I live in this province, and I believe in it and want it to grow, I wouldn't mind if the federal government started helping businesses and individuals who want to move out because of language issues.

    "Effectivement,c'est une question de morale et de loyauté.Semble-t-il que plusieurs anglos ignorent ces concepts."

    It seems that most french québécois don't understand the concept of business, money, and jobs. Your corrupt union won't give you much when there's no companies left in this province.

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  11. To adski @9:21AM
    Sorry that an unfinished work spilt out so early, it happens.
    The post entitled 'Living Unilingually in Montreal' will appear Monday.

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  12. "It was the start of a corporate exodus that shifted the financial center of Canada from Montreal to Toronto. In the four months after the imposition of Bill 101, 91 companies moved out of Quebec."

    After all, wealth creation and jobs are not a priority in Quebec as long as the bills are paid for by deficit spending and equalization payments from the rest of Canada."


    Nous sommes donc Kif-Kif! Hahahahaha!

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  13. Quebec is a train wreck (economic output, infrastructure, debt etc etc) The time will come when the ROC has to make a decision on if the country would be better without Quebec and/or force Quebec to put in place fiscal restraints such as is happening in Europe now with Greece, Italy and other debt stricken countires.

    In reality, Quebec will not have the option to separate given the state of their economic circumstances. Sooner of later the ROC will have to either cut them loose to save themselves or force radical fiscal changes upon la belle province. Other parts of the country are becoming increasingly concerned with the equalization payments which are utilized to provide levels of service exceeding those in the donor provinces.

    The movement of jobs and business outside of the province are only the tip of the iceberg. Jobs relocating to other regions results in an eroding tax base. A decreased tax base leads to increased deficits and thus larger requirments for social assistance from other provinces. This contributes to a death spiral which Quebec is actually accelerating with their continued language war on English (read waste of resources , time and effort) . Much like water running in a river, business will find the path of least resistance and as evidenced the path of least resistance will be to flow of jobs and businesses out of Quebec.

    How do you say...I don't have a job in French.

    Quebec continues to shoot itself in not one foot, but both feet at the same time under the direction of a radical element which the politicians of the day have no intestinal fortitude to challenge. Unfortunate!!!!

    What is it now? 220 Billion in provincial debt and a GDP/Debt ratio which is rapidly approaching that of countries on the brink of economic collapse. Unfortunately for the ROC, Quebec is not a separate country but is part of Canada.

    Quebec is going nowhere but down.

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  14. Le monsieur semble nerveux.Il ne sait trop que faire avec ses "glasses".

    http://tinyurl.com/837le2p

    "Quebec is going nowhere but down."

    Comme le reste de l'amérique et de l'Europe.

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  15. "Mr. Lisée's prescription to force French upon all head-offices operating in Quebec fails to account for free will."

    Excellent point. I would go further and say that the entire language legislation fails to account for it. The governemaman of Quebec is out of touch with the city of Montreal. Exerting pressure on it by the use of power granted by the Regions will only lead to civil disobedience and even tensions when those who want to be left alone are pushed to the wall.
    The Regions notwithstanding, the Montrealers have spoken - despite the official line, they want to live bilingually. And they're not taking the 401 either.

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  16. Great Blog entry Editor, as usual. And to Tree Stump's point, the Québécois Masters that rule over Quebec don't see a problem when jobs and head offices deem
     Quebec unworthy, pack up and head down the 401. They see it as a victory when it does occur. Their goal is to revert Quebec back into the agrarian, unilingual French society  it was before the British invasion (French capitulation). When you sit them down and point out the economics of what they are doing and the true cost of Bill 101 their eyes glaze over and they retort, those companies can go shit in Toronto, when Quebec becomes independent we will force them to have a head office in Quebec! Former Quebec Premier (unelected) Bernard Landry would make that point routinely. But anyone with half a brain knows that any "Quebec Head Office" would just be a regional outpost and all real head office decisions would be made 55 minutes  (by air) West of here in Toronto -en Anglais. 
      Most Québécois people don't know any English speaking Quebecers. Most never watched half their family or friends move away to another province because of politics. Most never had to make the decision to sell the family home and follow the company (and their job) to Toronto or Calgary. They just see what the francophone press sensationalizes and what their Masters tell them is happening.  French isn't in danger in Quebec and it never was. Outside of Montreal its about as 100% white and francophone as you can get. But if you listen to Jean-François Lisée or the other talking heads there is a huge problem and French may not make it in Quebec in the next 25 years. They have no idea what this is doing to my City, Montreal. On a personal note, my company has given us notice that in two years, our operations department which has been anchored in Montreal since 1934, will be packing up and moving to a yet unbuilt facility in Brampton Ontario. I will not be joining them.

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  17. "I will not be joining them."

    Going to go down with the sinking ship??

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  18. "Le monsieur semble nerveux.Il ne sait trop que faire avec ses "glasses"."

    Mais non mon ami, Je ne pas vecu en Quebec. Pour toi, Je penser vous aurions etre tres nerveux avec des chiffres economique au Quebec..

    Comme le reste de l'amérique

    Je doubt ca. look at the GDP output of the US. Only 4 percent of the world population which generates 26% of the World GDP. Comme je dits, bonne chance avec l'amerique tomber. Suspect you should look a little closer to home.

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  19. "Most Québécois people don't know any English speaking Quebecers."

    et...

    "Most Torontarian people don't know any French speaking Torontois."

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  20. "Most Torontarian people don't know any French speaking Torontois."

    A generation ago, Toronto was the size of Winnipeg. Now, because of politics in Quebec, its the size of Chicago! Rob Ford thanks you for sending so much wealth and Quebec educated graduates to pay taxes in his city.

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  21. "Rob Ford thanks you for sending so much wealth and Quebec educated graduates to pay taxes in his city."

    Rob Ford le raciste?

    "We can't even deal with the 2.5 million people in this city. It's more important that we take care of the people now before we start bringing in more,"

    http://www.blogto.com/city/2010/08/are_rob_fords_views_on_immigration_actually_racist/

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  22. Keep leaving kebec people. Until these racist anti-English language bigots give us back our equal rights, leave and take your money along with you. Businesses, same thing, get the hell out of Kebec just as we have been doing for the last 40 years .Repeal bill 101 and re establish our equal rights which we had in Kebec since 1763 , language Nazis or suffer the consequences.

    Boycott the province and any company with a head office in kebec and spread the word daily folks.

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  23. I've seen analysis showing that the reason Toronto grew so much is more because of Geography than anything else; it was a process that had already begun a decade before Bill 101. Montreal is an island that isn't connected to any other city in the surroundings while Toronto is located in the golden horseshoe. It is also closer to the US.

    Of course, since I don't agree with the rest of you and join in on the Othering, I'm a deeply biased individual and you should just ignore what I say.

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  24. To Calgary Anon, the opening of the St Lawrence Seaway was also a factor in the growth of Toronto BUT having said that, you cannot deny that Nationalism in Quebec accelerated Montreal's demise and Toronto's proportional growth during the 1960's and 1970's. If you do know any immigrants to Canada during the 60's and 70's they could tell you that Montreal was a beacon for immigration up until the mid-70's. As a nation that relies on immigration to fuel expansion this was also key to Toronto's rapid growth.

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  25. To Calgary Anonymous @12:08
    First things first.
    Montreal is closer to the US than Toronto, please consult a map. 65Km versus 135km and even closer to the large US markets on the eastern seaboard.
    But that really isn't the point. Location has nothing to do with banking, financial services or insurance.
    Many in Toronto want to believe the fiction that Toronto earned it's place as Canada's financial center on its own merit. Sun Life, the banks, the insurance giants, all moved because of language issues. PERIOD. There was no other reason to go. Certainly not geography.
    Had these giants remained, Toronto would still lag Montreal, natural growth aside.

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  26. Calgary Anonymous is an Acadian.

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  27. "Repeal bill 101 and re establish our equal rights which we had in Kebec since 1763"

    Les Québécois aimeraient bien savoir à quels "droits" vous faites régulièrement allusion.

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  28. Haaaa!Le multiculturalisme canadien.

    http://tinyurl.com/7u9sngv

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  29. Excellent point Editor and post about Montreal as Financial Centre of Canada.
    It is also a closer port to Europe (than even NYC) and all the major U.S. Eastern Seaboard ports...so those who think that the 'divine' law (reminds of absolutists in the 16-17 century, eh?) had no effect on the decline of Montreal to has-been status are delusional revisionist history types.

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  30. "Without any complaints from the separatist peanut gallery, Sun Life announced last week it would sponsor a project to rehabilitate the vast concrete plaza in front of the moribund Olympic Stadium, to be named... you guessed it...
    "l'Esplanade Financière Sun Life""

    Give the French language zealots time. Soon they will be demanding that the plaza be named "l'Espanade Financiere Vie Soleil," at which point Sun Life may pull out of Quebec again.

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  31. Une petite histoire pout tout le monde.

    2011

    Conservative government has won a majority government in Canada without any significant representation from Quebec.

    The Conservatives have appointed unilingually anglos to key departments including the Supreme Court and Auditor General of Canada. They also moved ahead and cancelled the gun registry and passed the omnibus crime bill. Additionally they have renamed the various departments of the armed forces with ROYAL and had a Picture of the Queen seen prominent in all embassies around the world. All of the above seen by Quebec as an affront and total lack of respect for the Quebecois

    2012

    The Conservative Government makes good on their promise to finance a hydro line from Churchill falls to the US thereby bypassing the Hydro Quebec transmission facilities and monopoly on electrical transmission facilities North South. This is viewed in Quebec as another slap in the face and the numbers of separatistes increases by proportion.

    The NDP opposition are essentially mute and powerless against the majority government and are caught between their support in the ROC and that in Quebec which threatens to further erode their credibility in Ottawa, due to infighting amongst the ranks rendering the opposition neutral.

    2013

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  32. Part 2

    The economy is becoming worse in Quebec and the provincial government can only keep social programs going by increasing government debt.
    Of course by this time the government has passed legislation requiring all CEGEPS and other institutions to become totally French... The federal government thumbs their nose at any further demands by the NDP and Quebec National Assembly to make Federal Institutions fully function in French only (Argumentally against the Canadian Charter of Rights and of course the OLA) This creates a further rift between Quebec and Ottaws (read ROC). The people in the ROC are finally waking up to the fact that the Quebecois are trying to force their values and language on the minority in Quebec and to some extent on the ROC.

    The debate over language and culture is the only tool the Quebec politicians have available to put the majority in their camp and they aggressively follow the crusade of the language zealots to further trample the rights of others.

    Funding to English institutions such as McGill is radically cut by the Quebec government to try and balance their immense growing debt.

    2014

    The Conservative Government opens up the equalization formalae for review and takes public input from all regions of the Country. Ontario has become a have not province and is demanding more equalization to support a lagging economy.

    The Federal government of the day knows full well that their support is in Ontario and the West. The West demand that they pay less into Equalization and Ontario requests more money with the result that with the shrunken pie less money goes to Quebec. Equalization formulaes are re-rigged and several loopholes such as Hydro Revenue are now included in the formalae which results in much less transfers to Quebec.

    This is met by indignation in Quebec but much as they complain about unjust treatment there is really nothing they can do. In order for Quebec to maintain fiscal integrity they must raise taxes to cover shortfalls. The indignation to the Quebecois is such that the separatist movement is greatly revived and the sabres and threats of separation are again taken out of their scabbards.

    The higher taxes and threats of separation cause businesses and individuals to start making plans to exit the province.

    2015

    The threat of separation is growing ground as obviously someone must be to blame for the woes of Quebec and this must surely be the ROC and the majority anglo population. This sells well in Quebec.

    Businesses and high income earners are already well on their way out of the province similar to the situation in 1994. Due to financial unstability Quebec bond rates are inflated to levels several times the Bank of Canada prime rate which further erodes Quebec's ability to meet is financial objectives. Even large Quebec finacial institutions are making plans to relocate the majority of their operations.

    In the end, realizing the fact of Quebec actually separating is inconscionable the referendum is never held.

    By this time, however, a great many people and businesses have all left leaving the Province in total economic collapse. Quebec appeals to Ottawa for help but of course this falls on deaf ears as Quebec is no longer of any political importance.

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  33. "To Calgary Anon, the opening of the St Lawrence Seaway was also a factor in the growth of Toronto BUT having said that, you cannot deny that Nationalism in Quebec accelerated Montreal's demise and Toronto's proportional growth during the 1960's and 1970's. If you do know any immigrants to Canada during the 60's and 70's they could tell you that Montreal was a beacon for immigration up until the mid-70's. As a nation that relies on immigration to fuel expansion this was also key to Toronto's rapid growth."

    I am not ; but the way its portayed it's like it was the *only* factor. It may not have been. Beware self-serving narratives.

    This is the analysis I was thinking of. It seemed to make valid points to me; the mainstream explanation of "Separatism Only" seems much more simplistic in comparison.

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  34. Calgary anon is not impartial. He certainly is bias and trying to make excuses for Quebec to maintain its draconian language legislation. Alot of people on the blog saw it a while ago. His views mirror that other user: Toronto Guy.

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  35. @calgary anon,

    Saying that Montreal didn't stagnate because of Quebec language laws and political uncertainty from Quebec separatism is like saying Calgary didn't grow because of Oil. Which is quite moronic, but I don't expect anything less from someone with a clear cut agenda.

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  36. woops, here it is.

    http://michelpatrice.wordpress.com/2011/11/01/montreal-and-toronto/

    Did I ever pretend to be impartial? I'm here to share my opinion, just like you. The only impartial thing is facts, and then even statistics depend on interpretation.

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  37. @anon 12:00

    Actually Rob ford got a majority of his mandate in areas where there was an allo majority. It was the minorities in Toronto that voted for him en mass because they were sick and tired for working in factories and fast food while the Unions had their relatives working good paying city of Toronto jobs. To pay for raises and benifit increases taxes and fees kept going up. So there was a backlash and ROB FORD won. Despite him saying some redneck like things he won because he has no power over immigration and people wanted him to cut the GRAVY.

    The city of Montreal has a even worst bureacracy and blue collar union work ethic. They anglos and allos are probably not well repesented in the employment rolls. Hopefully a Rob Ford gets elected Mayor of Montreal and slashes and burns all the wasteful spending.

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  38. calgary anon,

    you did ask others to be impartial when you were clearly having a pro Pur laine chauvanist agenda. So that make you a hypocrit as well.

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  39. @ Calgary Anonymous,

    "The only impartial thing is facts, and then even statistics depend on interpretation."

    Right. Like YOUR facts about language legislation and freedom of expression in Romania? Someone who actually lived in Romania proved your facts wrong.

    It seems to me that you are really grasping at straws in your attempt to support Quebec's draconian language laws, i.e. Timbuktu has some language legislation so it is okay for Quebec to do the same.

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  40. You're being very unjust about Romania : I made an internet research and found that a law in which it states that all signs must be Romanian; I posted the link to said law. No lies. How was I to know it wasnt enforced? I don't live there.

    I believe the gentleman from Romania STATED that I was wrong; I believe him since he is actually from there. Big difference between that and a proof though.

    I also never said it was *okay* because other people did it. Some people are under the impression that there are no other language laws around the world. This is factually incorrect and I was trying to show evidence of that.

    Believe me, I was raised amongst peers who repeated the same mantra about Quebec as I see here. I accepted it without questionning for a very long time. Nowadays, I think there are no simple cut answers and I've looked into it deeper than just what everyone around me was sayinh.

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  41. "Saying that Montreal didn't stagnate because of Quebec language laws and political uncertainty from Quebec separatism is like saying Calgary didn't grow because of Oil. "

    Whoever claims that the rise of nationalist/separatist sentiment in Quebec had - nothing/little/not as much as people think - to do with the exodus of business from Montreal must be able to explain the temporal correlation between the two events. The exodus followed the rise in nationalism and its overt and hostile expression, and then intensified after the election of the PQ to power in 1976 and the passage of la loi 101 in 1977.

    The evidence suggests that business took flight precisely because of Quebec nationalism. Saying that it was because Montreal is an island not connected to other city is revisionist rubbish. If geography is to blame, why was Montreal a #1 prior to the 1970's? As far as I know, Montreal was an island back then too. Unless there were some tectonic shifts that disconnected it from the rest of landmass at the end of the 1960's which I wasn't aware of.

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  42. "I've seen analysis showing that the reason Toronto grew so much is more because of Geography than anything else"

    Was this "analysis" performed by Jean Francois Lisee by any chance?

    ReplyDelete
  43. @adski

    Toujours parmi nous adski?Qué passa gringo?

    ReplyDelete
  44. Calgary Anonymous,

    You said "the mainstream explanation of "Separatism Only" seems much more simplistic in comparison".

    You got my point, simplisism indeed.

    Thank you. There are days when one thinks one writes for no one.

    Michel Patrice
    michel.patrice.qc@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  45. Adski : I believe the idea is that prior to the opening up of the St-Lawrence seaway (1959), Montreal was the logical heart of the country. As Montreal's importance as a port declined (as the Editor politely points out, Montreal is geographically closer to the United States, but Toronto is closer to a much greater population/market) the economy of Canada shifted inland. Thus it was inevitable (following this rationale) that Toronto eclipse Montreal. Bill 101 would have precipitated things.

    That Montreal is an island simply means that the suburbification was more limited than Toronto's.

    It's not my personnal opnion, I don't know enough about the subject to have one, but I thought a different perspective might be interesting. I will point out, however, that as savvy businessmen I'm sure the financiers weren't leaving a financial paradise for a city where they were sure to go bankrupt; there must have been other good arguments for moving to Toronto.

    It was written by Michel Patrice who runs an english blog. From what I've seen, it tends to explain things rationally (without name-calling or other types of moral commentary), which counts for a lot in my books.

    ReplyDelete
  46. "Whoever claims that the rise of nationalist/separatist sentiment in Quebec had - nothing/little/not as much as people think - to do with the exodus of business from Montreal must be able to explain the temporal correlation between the two events."

    One could argue that Quebec's industries, such as the logging or paper industries naturally made way to more modern industry in Ontario (mostly the automobile industry).

    However, it's obvious that the language and separation issues had terrible consequences on our economy. Not only did businesses pack up and leave, so did a great deal of educated, productive Quebec citizens (non-francophones).

    It's no secret that the english population of this country is much more productive than the francophone population, and we decided to get rid of the first and keep the latter.

    But the editor was correct:
    "To this, how do French militants like Mr. Lisée react?
    With nary a sigh, wishing good riddance to those who won't conform, telling all who will listen that Quebec is better off without these arrogant English bastard companies."

    ReplyDelete
  47. @Calgary Anon:

    The title of that blog is "Quelques réflexions"
    This is not an "english" blog as you claim.

    Furthermore, the author doesn't even know how to spell "separatism". He's clearly not an anglophone.

    You can also look at his links to other sites, which are all filled with anti-anglophone racism.

    But I guess he fooled you with his "english blog". You're easy to convince.

    ReplyDelete
  48. @calgary anon,

    The inland port of Toronto is open only 6-8 months of the year. The seaway also limits the size of the ships that go all the way to Toronto. Montreal is open all year round, 2nd busiest port after Vancouver in Canada. Montreal was the financial capital of Canada prior to 1977. The Bank of Montreal headquarters itself was moved to Toronto. Toronto became the finance and manufacturing capital of Canada after 1977.

    New York City has a much more complicated geography but that hasn't stopped it from being one of the biggest cities in the United states.

    Montreal had and still has plenty of room to expand onto the south, north west and east of the island. There is still plenty of undeveloped areas on Montreal and Laval islands.

    To debate with Calgary Anon is pointless. As mentioned earlier he has a clear cut agenda. Like the Pur Laine chauvanists he will justify his position despite evidence and proof.

    ReplyDelete
  49. To Anonymous4:37,

    My blog is not an english blog, it is a blog written in english. My native language is french. My english writing skills are obviously not as good as my french.

    I will take Calgary's comment that I tend to explain things rationally, without name-calling or other types of moral commentary, as a compliment. I appreciate.

    Michel Patrice

    ReplyDelete
  50. To Michel Patrice @ above
    Thank you for participating in this blog.

    Allow us to reciprocate.
    Could you provide a link to your blog so that myself and readers may make up our own opinions....

    ReplyDelete
  51. I'm just hoping that most of the language inspectors will turn out to benevolently support the French language through encouragement and such. But especially after reading your story here, it turns out that all they're going to do is the usual routine of trying to turn speaking English in public into a social taboo (hey, it IS possible) and force people to shop at "Meilleur Achat" (after "Les Electroniques Best Buy" was deemed inappropriate) and "Pneu Canadi-" errr, "Pneu Québécois".

    ReplyDelete
  52. @Michel Patrice:

    Your blog is actually filled with your opinions and is clearly biased. Here's a quote from the first article:
    "I sometimes get fed up with anglos telling about all those who left because of big bad separatists, bla, bla, bla."
    Rationally and without name-calling or other types of moral commentary you say?

    Also, I must ask, why do you write your articles in a language that you hate so much? We all know that separatists have no problem with hypocrisy, but to this point? You obviously do it for a reason, considering how much you hate "les méchants anglais". Is it some attempt to fool some more ignorant (ie: Calgary Anon) readers?

    Do you contribute to vigile.net too? I'm guessing you do.

    ReplyDelete
  53. "Do you contribute to vigile.net too? I'm guessing you do."

    Vive la liberté du web!

    ReplyDelete
  54. To Quebecker of Tree Stump,

    You carefuly chose your quote. Here is the sentence you quoted, it makes it look like a rant against anglos, but when you read the next sentence, I think it gives it a whole new lighting :

    "I sometimes get fed up with anglos telling about all those who left because of big bad separatists, bla, bla, bla. But when you can relate to the pain of exile (and I can), you can understand their lasting resentment."
    (http://michelpatrice.wordpress.com/2011/11/16/moving-on-a-moving-documentary/)

    My opinions are of course clearly biaised. Thank you for providing a more objective view.

    Michel

    ReplyDelete
  55. To the Editor,

    Thank you for your invitation. Here is the blog : http://michelpatrice.wordpress.com/

    The post about Montreal and Toronto is here : http://michelpatrice.wordpress.com/2011/11/01/montreal-and-toronto/

    Take a look, feel free to join the discussion. (I will be a little more busy than usual for the next two or three days, but reply to most comments as soon as I have time.)

    I just discovered your blog today, I will take time to read some of your posts in the next few days.

    Michel
    michel.patrice.qc@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  56. (I swear I posted this earlier; oh well.)

    English as in the language of the blog. You know, for someone so concerned about the Quebecker's supposed racism and bigotry, you seem to ascribe an inordinate amount of importance to ethnicity.

    You also seem to be full of generalisations about the moral character of the Quebeckers, but of course it is I who is a hypocrite.

    ReplyDelete
  57. To Calgary Anonymous3:24,

    If your 3:24 is addressed to me, I don't understand what you mean, you message is unclear to me.

    (You posted your comment earlier than what?)
    (I am full of generalizations about our moral character? I ascribe inordinate importance to ethnicity? What do you mean exactely?...)

    If you were not talking to me, sorry, a misunderstanding. Were you talking to someone or to everyone?

    Michel Patrice

    Michel Patrice

    ReplyDelete
  58. @calgary anon

    Does that Quebeckers include the 20% of quebec residents that are non pur laine and yes you are a hypocrite.

    ReplyDelete
  59. "Does that Quebeckers include the 20% of quebec residents that are non pur laine and yes you are a hypocrite."

    Les citoyens qui refusent de s'intégrer à la société Québécoise ne sont pas des Québécois.Les citoyens qui refusent de s'intégrer en France ne sont pas des Français.Les citoyens qui refusent de s'intégrer aux É.U ne sont pas américains.Les citoyens qui refusent de...

    ReplyDelete
  60. it's not about refusing to integrate into Quebec Society, it's about refusing to integrate to your version of Quebec Society...

    ReplyDelete
  61. "it's not about refusing to integrate into Quebec Society, it's about refusing to integrate to your version of Quebec Society.."

    Désolé c'est la seule que nous avons.Vous savez,le monde est grand,je vous conseille Mississauga qui n'est pas très loin.Le paradis sur terre,parait-il. ;-)

    ReplyDelete
  62. @Michel Patrice : was responding to

    "The title of that blog is "Quelques réflexions"
    This is not an "english" blog as you claim.

    Furthermore, the author doesn't even know how to spell "separatism". He's clearly not an anglophone."

    The idea that someone's ideas have less merit because one is not "an anglophone" (or is an acadian, as I allegedly am) is itselft deeply bigoted and very amusing comming from someone who accuses Quebeckers of being racists.

    I personally love your blog, it's one of the first I found when I decided I wanted to hear about Quebec from an actual Quebebecker for once, as opposed to the mantra that is religiously repeated around me. Everyone could benefit from doing that - I suspect it's why you yourself are now following this particular blog.

    ReplyDelete
  63. "Does that Quebeckers include the 20% of quebec residents that are non pur laine"

    If you're referring to "Quebecker's supposed racism and bigotry" - then I don't know. I'm not the one who made the claim in the first place.

    If I'm confusing you with another that goes under "Anonymous" I appologize. There seems to be more than one of you.

    What is your obession with the racial purity of Quebeckers anyway? I never made any mention of it. My only position on this blog has been that a local majority is entitled to services in the language of the majority. Racial purity has nothing to do with it. But you keep comming back to "Pur-laine". Why?

    ReplyDelete
  64. Haha, your responses are so predictable.

    "You carefuly chose your quote. Here is the sentence you quoted, it makes it look like a rant against anglos, but when you read the next sentence, I think it gives it a whole new lighting"

    No, it doesn't. Are you looking for sympathy by saying you feel sorry for the poor anglos who were forced to move out of their own province? The rest of your blog explains how and why you support these racist laws. Do you want me to quote more of your blog? It's all anti-anglophone. It doesn't matter though, people can go there and see for themselves.

    "My opinions are of course clearly biaised. Thank you for providing a more objective view."

    Did I EVER claim to be objective in any of my comments? No, I did not, unlike you. Here's a quote from your own comment:
    "I will take Calgary's comment that I tend to explain things rationally, without name-calling or other types of moral commentary, as a compliment", which is entirely untrue. At least I don't pretend to be impartial.

    "The idea that someone's ideas have less merit because one is not "an anglophone" (or is an acadian, as I allegedly am) is itselft deeply bigoted and very amusing comming from someone who accuses Quebeckers of being racists."

    You obviously didn't understand my point. I have no problem with anyone using the language they want. What I have a problem with is someone who hates the non-francophone population of Quebec so much, using a language aside from french to write his racist blog.
    First of all, it's hypocritical. If you believe in protecting a language so much, well use it at least.
    If you want to force a language upon your own citizens, and you don't use it yourself, you're a hypocrite.
    Secondly, it's clear that he uses english as a way make his anti-english content seem less offensive. And it seems to work, you believed he was impartial. (I'm guessing you didn't read much of his content)

    "I personally love your blog, it's one of the first I found when I decided I wanted to hear about Quebec from an actual Quebebecker for once, as opposed to the mantra that is religiously repeated around me. Everyone could benefit from doing that - I suspect it's why you yourself are now following this particular blog."

    Wow, just wow.
    I'm starting to suspect that "Michel Patrice" and "Calgary Anon" are the same person, trying to promote their racist blog on this website. Why don't you go read vigile.net if you want to know why anyone who's not white, french and catholic, isn't accepted in this province.
    His opinions are NOT impartial, what he presents as facts are OPINIONS, just like this blog here. But of course, in true separatist style, he presents them as fact.

    ReplyDelete
  65. "But you keep comming back to "Pur-laine". Why?"

    LA question à 1 000 000 $,nous n'avons jamais eu de réponse...À suivre.

    ReplyDelete
  66. "Why don't you go read vigile.net if you want to know why anyone who's not white, french and catholic, isn't accepted in this province."

    Ma femme est Colombienne.Ho!Le gros raciste pure laine que je suis.Communiquez avec nous en français et vous augmenterez vos chances d'acceptation de 90%!

    ReplyDelete
  67. "Ma femme est Colombienne.Ho!Le gros raciste pure laine que je suis.Communiquez avec nous en français et vous augmenterez vos chances d'acceptation de 90%!"

    No, actually I can respect you, because unlike Michel Patrice, you actually use the language that you want to protect, and you have no problem stating clearly where you stand on the issue. You also don't pretend to be impartial.

    I don't agree with you and you don't agree with me, but that's the point of debating.

    ReplyDelete
  68. @anon 2:33

    we don't want to leave. We want to partition Quebec and make our own "paradis". A mississauga, right next door to Montreal Island, from Sainte Anne De Bellevue to Lancaster.

    ReplyDelete
  69. "We want to partition Quebec and make our own "paradis"."

    Pas de problème!D'ici là...Souffrez et fermez-là!MDR!

    MDR = LMAO

    ReplyDelete
  70. First I'm supposed to be an Acadian, now I'm supposed to be Michel Patrice huh? That's pretty amusing. I have to appologize to Michel, I was just trying to link to a post of his that I liked. He doesen't deserve to be subjected to abuse.

    And yes, it *is* bigoted and racist to assume that because one is in favor of bill 101, one HATES the english language. It *is* bigoted to think that if one wants to preserve one language that prevents him of using any other. It *is* bigoted to presume that someone writing in another language so he can be understood by more people is a cynical attempt to hide his racism. That's what prejudice means, to ascribe flaw on preconceptions rather than the actual behavior of the person. You, sir, are a bigot and it makes you a hypocrite since you ascribe that flaw to others.

    I'd also ask you to find where I used the word "impartial" to describe him or me. Seriously. Are you familiar with the tactic of the strawman?

    I have no interest in Vigile.net; if it's as full of bigotry and moral commentary as you say it is, it's precisely what I aim to avoid.

    ReplyDelete
  71. To Editor,

    You said (12:08) : "Montreal is closer to the US than Toronto, please consult a map." You are absolutely right.

    Montreal is closer to Vermont and New York. Winnipeg is also close to border, but is close to North Dakota and Minnesota.

    The population of the eight american states bordering the Great Lakes is 87 millions, that's twice and a half the total canadian population. Toronto is closer to the center of that large economic entity.

    When I talk about geography, is has nothing to do with Montreal being on an island (as adski seems to understand)

    Michel

    ReplyDelete
  72. "The population of the eight american states bordering the Great Lakes is 87 millions, that's twice and a half the total canadian population."

    Montreal is closer to the New York state, the third most populous state in the union after California and Texas. Toronto is not close to any of the three. Also, New York city is an economic powerhouse and the most populous urbanized area and unsurpassed since the 1920's, when it overtook London. New York is also the world's financial center.

    My point is to demonstrate that two can play this game.


    "it *is* bigoted and racist to assume that because one is in favor of bill 101, one HATES the english language"

    Taking this "logic" further, one is a bigot if one opposes 101, because 101 is there to "protect" French. So if you oppose 101, you oppose the existence of the "French fact".

    There is only one problem with this. People aren't as stupid as the two (or one pretending to be two) gentlemen above think.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Someone said "Furthermore, the author doesn't even know how to spell "separatism" and I didn't get it, I spell separatism "separatism".

    I just noticed this morning that I spelled it separatisme (from french of course) right in hte title... : )

    I corrected it.

    ReplyDelete
  74. Regardless of Michel Patrice's sentiments on separatism or the language divide in Quebec, he is one of the few people on the other side of the debate willing to post here in English rather than French. I believe this should be encouraged rather than ripping him a new one simply for making a spelling mistake. (And there are PLENTY of Anglos on the internet who not only bother to correct their spelling, capitalization, and punctuation, but deliberately make errors---like writing "the" as "teh"---to appear "cool.") Debate him on his ideas, not his grammar.

    ReplyDelete
  75. Anonymous December 4, 2011 wrote: Montreal is closer to the New York state, the third most populous state in the union after California and Texas. Toronto is not close to any of the three. Also, New York city is an economic powerhouse and the most populous urbanized area and unsurpassed since the 1920's, when it overtook London. New York is also the world's financial center.

    I may not live in Quebec, but I did visit Montreal this past May. (My avatar picture shows a picture of me at the top of the tower above Olympic Stadium.) I didn't fly to Montreal---I drove. So this is one aspect I can comment on with first-hand knowledge. Yes, Montreal is very close to the New York state border. It was a relief to get to my motel relatively quickly after going through customs. However, New York State and New York City are not the same thing. It was an exhausting three to four hour drive of over 500 kilometers up I-87. And after going through all THAT (if you took the route that I did), you still have to drive through New Jersey to get to New York City.

    The point is that New York City is FAR away from Montreal, and it is the size of the state of New York that only makes it appear close. If Maryland stretched westward across the Alleghenies, It's possible that I could drive from Washington, D.C. to Columbus, OH without leaving Maryland. That would be roughly the same distance between Montreal and NYC.

    ReplyDelete
  76. All thanks to Bill 101, I might just miss out a chance with a Gorgeous Albanian girl that I have started to get to know and crushing over, since she is considering moving to Toronto for better career opportunities... What a sad and disgusting reality that is!!!
    You see the kind of tort that strong ethnical cleansing attempts can bring whenever some fascist French-militants prompt Anglophones and ALLOPHONES(in this case) to leave and take the 401!!! it prevents some new potential friendship and love relationship from taking place, not to mention that also tears some existing ones apart.
    On the side note, if you (Press 9, any other seppie troll), think my situation is a joke or funny, then it clearly denotes how soulless and heartless you are from within…wow, you guys must have a lot of friends in life.

    Therefore, A BIG F%&@ YOU to all Nazi Seppies like you, I hope you will all feel the joy of starvation and alcoholism in the near future…

    As for you Michel Patrice, you seppies will come up with any kind of argument just to justify the fact that bill 101 was not the main factor that caused its economic downfall…it is sad to see you guys failing to acknowledge the truth and the fact that YOU ARE THE ONES RESPONSIBLE for its slump.
    Oh BTW, a BIG F%&@ you goes to you too!!!

    sorry for the F words being used twice editor,

    ReplyDelete
  77. "Gorgeous Albanian girl"

    Êtes-vous bien certain que c'est une albanienne?

    De toutes façons,d'avoir quitté Montréal prouve qu'elle est trop intelligente pour vous.Vous trouverez sûrement,au sein de votre minorité,une femme à votre niveau.(Q.I comparable)

    Bonne chance! :)))

    ReplyDelete
  78. About Edward J. Cunningham's comment.

    Geography again.

    Erie canal was built to connect lake Erie (from Buffalo) to Hudson river (at Albany) that leads to New York. Toronto is near Buffalo, right on this line of communication. That canal is a mean of communication between the Great Lakes area and the Atlantic.

    New York benefits from being at this cross road between the Great Lakes and the Atlantic ocean. Geography again.

    Americans built the Erie canal to outreach to the Great Lakes. The first section opened in 1819 and the second in 1825. The british who wanted to secure their part of this territory built the Lachine canal to outreach to the Great Lakes too. It opened in 1825. Geography again? Sort of. More geopolitic.

    "The only thing that does not change through history is geography." (Bismark)

    ReplyDelete
  79. @ calgary anon 6:55

    Everyone suspects that you have sympathies for Quebec draconian language laws because of your ethnicity. You don't deny it. There is nothing wrong in having doubts. as mentioned before even an American with a Quebec Francophone roots, that doesn't know a word of French supported bill 101 just out of ethnic solidarity.

    ReplyDelete
  80. @anon 6:23

    I am LMAO of when i think of the OKA crisis. Then the vigile and MPQ types talk about a militia. Quebec wouldn't be able to stop any community from partitioning. It would be a free for all. All an independent Quebec would be able to do is whine.

    ReplyDelete
  81. @anon 4:59

    She married you for immigration. I hope she is hot so that some allo or anglo can get a date with her after she divorces you.

    ReplyDelete
  82. "She married you for immigration."

    Lorsque nous nous sommes mariés,elle était déjà Québécoise depuis deux ans.Coté sexuel,elle préfère le sang chaud des latinos.Pas de chance les anglouilles!

    ReplyDelete
  83. @ Michel Patrice,

    "Americans built the Erie canal to outreach to the Great Lakes. The first section opened in 1819 and the second in 1825. The british who wanted to secure their part of this territory built the Lachine canal to outreach to the Great Lakes too. It opened in 1825. Geography again? Sort of. More geopolitic."

    The fact remains that Montreal was the economic and financial capital of Canada until the election of the Parti Quebecois in 1976 and the passage of Bill 101 in 1977. Montreal lost its economic and financial prowess immediately following these events. Nothing else changed at that time. To state otherwise by blathering about geography is just being dishonest.

    Similarly, the Canadian dollar was worth more than the American dollar prior to the election of the Parti Quebecois. The instability caused by the PQ (separatism, etc.) resulted in the collapse of the Canadian dollar. It took 30 years for it to regain parity with the U.S. dollar again.

    ReplyDelete
  84. Anonymous12:02,

    Here is a quote from american author Jane Jacobs' The Question of Separatism : Quebec and the Struggle over Sovereignty :

    "Toronto stock exchange in 1934, and by the 1940s the volume of stocks traded in Toronto had come to exceed the volume traded in Montreal.

    During the great growth surge of Montreal, from 1941 to 1971, Toronto grew at a rate that was even faster. In the first of those decades, when Montreal was growing by about 20 per cent, Toronto was growing by a rate closer to 25 percent. In the next decade, when Montreal was adding a bit over 35 percent to its population, Toronto was adding about 45 percent. And from 1961 to 1971, while Montreal was growing by less than 20 percent, Toronto was growing by 30 percent. The result was that Toronto finally overtook Montreal in the late 1970s."

    These events took place before the rise of separatism.

    Let's say for the sake of the discussion, that geography had nothing to do with and that separatism is the only factor.

    So why then, when leaving Montreal, people went to Toronto in large number? Why go to Toronto and not to Winnipeg?

    And why then did so many people went to Toronto from Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Manitoba, etc?

    Why do one fift of the canadian population live in the golden Horseshoe?

    Why is New Brunswick poorer? Someone, arguing about my ideas told me it is because of their location. Location is geography.

    This being even if geography played a role, you can still say that our laws are racist, that we are racist, that we have an ethnic cleansing policy, and so on.

    I am just saying that geography is also a factor. And looking at a map, I find it hard not to see the influence of geography.

    Michel Patrice

    ReplyDelete
  85. anon 4:59

    “She married you for immigration. I hope she is hot so that some allo or anglo can get a date with her after she divorces you.”

    OK LET ME GET IT STRAIGHT FOR YOU, YOU ILLETERATE ORANG OTANG, I don’t think I have ever mentioned about being married to her in a first place…it was just someone I was starting to get to know at the university in class and who turned out to be very attractive and thus, feeling that it was shameful that she MIGHT leave, just like many other allophones do besides, just because of a stupid obnoxious language LAW that reeks intolerance, ignorance and complete stupidity…

    Êtes-vous bien certain que c'est une albanienne?
    It’s ALBANAISE in French, just so you know, you illiterate pur-lainer twat!!! This denotes how much most pure-lainers lack in brain cells since they cannot write proper french grammar or have a word being correctly spelt. We can actually attest that the French Quebec school system fails to provide descent education.

    De toutes façons,d'avoir quitté Montréal prouve qu'elle est trop intelligente pour vous.Vous trouverez sûrement,au sein de votre minorité,une femme à votre niveau.(Q.I comparable)
    You should read more carefully next time, because I never mentioned she left, I just stated that it was a possibility… and concerning the level of intelligence that I’ve got, I highly doubt you will ever attain the stage of obtaining a high school diploma since you seppies are practically all dropout bums sitting their lazy asses on welfare and being such a cancerous impact to society
    You belong to the Cesspool.

    Bonne chance! :
    "She married you for immigration."

    Lorsque nous nous sommes mariés,elle était déjà Québécoise depuis deux ans.Coté sexuel,elle préfère le sang chaud des latinos.Pas de chance les anglouilles!

    And when you picked her in Cuba, Was she an adult or a 13 yearold??????

    ReplyDelete
  86. "...I just stated that it was a possibility…"

    Oups!Peut-être pas si intelligente que ça l'albanienne.

    “She married you for immigration. I hope she is hot so that some allo or anglo can get a date with her after she divorces you.”

    Ce commentaire n'est pas de moi.

    Finalement,peut-être bien des Q.I comparables.


    Les Québécois sont vraiment tolérants avec vous :)

    ReplyDelete
  87. to ano on 4th,12:52

    and what about you???Are you that intelligent???

    Les Québécois sont vraiment tolérants avec vous :)

    we are also tolerant with quebecers, especially when it comes down to subsidies and transfer payment from which you keep benifiting!!!

    ReplyDelete
  88. "we are also tolerant with quebecers, especially when it comes down to subsidies and transfer payment from which you keep benifiting!!!"

    Pourquoi croyez-vous que nous vous tolérons?MDR!

    ReplyDelete
  89. Actually, I wrote an editorial the other day that deleted just before I was ready to send it off, so now I'm apporaching the century mark in terms of my first entry, so NM (first entry), I got over it. Gosh darn fiddlesticks!

    Well, being entry #80something, there's really nothing original to add here because it's déjà vu all over again (yes, I'm plagerizing Yogi Berra, how unoriginal on my part, but it fits the topic).

    The language gestapo is simply doing what it did almost 35 years ago: Picking on the small enterprise, especially one owned by a Jew. Gee, how tantalizing, picking on the Jews. Didn't Mordechai Richler cover all this back in the early 90s, and very thoroughly?

    What Franco American supports language legislation in Quebec? Doesn't Franco American make canned salty gravies and spaghetti-Os in slimy sweet orange sauce kids love? Go to Attleboro, MA. There is a restaurant there called Morin's (pron. "MOR-inns") who speaks with a New England accent, doesn't speak a word of French, signature dish is a "French meat pie", not "French Canadian meat pie". Ground beef and brown gravy! It may be tasty, but I'm sure it's a far, far cry from the tortière his great grandfather, Jean-Baptiste Morin, experienced when he left Montreal for New England.

    Not too far away in Peabody, MA, there's another place called the Little Depot that serves crettin (a.k.a. créton). You think they speak French? I can't believe there's solidarity between the Robert Goulets of America and the Tremblays of the Saguenay!

    But I digress. Simply put, the gestapo is going to pettily target the small businesses for the slightest of so-called language violations. Why not? It gives these tongue troopers a raison d'être, a justification for their well-overpaid base salaries, benefits and RREGOP pensions.

    Beyond picking on the small and most vulnerable, try and justify why a so-called federalist government is repeating this ugly history. The way I see it, there are so few French speaking federalists left they don't even make a dent in the federalist cause.

    ReplyDelete
  90. "And yes, it *is* bigoted and racist to assume that because one is in favor of bill 101, one HATES the english language. It *is* bigoted to think that if one wants to preserve one language that prevents him of using any other. It *is* bigoted to presume that someone writing in another language so he can be understood by more people is a cynical attempt to hide his racism."

    You're an idiot. You really are. You can try to play that reverse racism game, but everyone here except for you and Michel Patrice know which group in this province is really racist.

    I explained that I think he's a hypocrite because he's not using the language that he wants to protect, even if it means limiting the rights of citizens of this province/country.

    Also, Bill 101 is about limiting the use of other languages, not promoting french, in case you didn't know. That means hatred of other languages, not wanting to promote your own.

    If you actually take the time to read his articles, there's tons of anti-anglophone stuff. Here's some quotes to show his intolerance:

    "Usually, when english quebeckers tell french quebeckers about the exodus of anglophones, it is all about blaming french quebeckers, separatism, linguistic laws, our supposed intolerance, and so on, vous connaissez la chanson."

    "I'd also ask you to find where I used the word "impartial" to describe him or me. Seriously. Are you familiar with the tactic of the strawman?"

    Sure, here you go:
    "It was written by Michel Patrice who runs an english blog. From what I've seen, it tends to explain things rationally (without name-calling or other types of moral commentary), which counts for a lot in my books."

    @ Michel Patrice:

    USE FRENCH ON YOUR BLOG, you god damn hypocrite. French is threatened on the web and must be protected by all means!!

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  91. "Simply put, the gestapo is going to pettily target the small businesses for the slightest of so-called language violations."

    Ce sont eux qui paient le plus rapidement leurs contraventions.Ils paient rapidement en plus!À ce titre,ils représentent de très bons citoyens corporatifs.

    Merci de renflouer nos coffres.

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  92. I think Michel Patrice is a perfect example of french québécois hypocrisy.. They don't want to do the work, but they want to reap the rewards.

    Here's a guy who writes articles about how the french language is threatened by "les méchants anglais", and how the history of the province is wrong when it's told by "les méchants anglais".
    He writes all this, in english, because he can have a bigger audience...
    So after wanting to forbid Quebec citizens from using english, he goes out and writes about it.. en anglais.

    Like Jacques Parizeau, who claimed that the country had been stolen by money and the ethnic vote, who then decides to goto the Montreal Jewish General Hospital when he has health problems.

    Or like "sovereignty-association". How much do you want to bet that separatists would still demand transfer payments after a successful separation of the province, claiming that we "still deserve the money".

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  93. "Or like "sovereignty-association". How much do you want to bet that separatists would still demand transfer payments after a successful separation of the province, claiming that we "still deserve the money"."

    I was having a conversation with a Francophone acquaintance several years ago and I said that Canada would probably be much better off if Quebec separated. His response was "we'll still have to get our transfer payments." I replied that "it would be highly unlikely," and then he said that "there will be a war then." I finished with "Quebec will lose."

    Can you believe the nerve of these people?

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  94. Quebecker of Tree Stump (1:56),

    For the benefit of everyone, I would like to post the full quote, just like the first, you skipped a second part that changes the meaning.

    The part you quoted :
    "Usually, when english quebeckers tell french quebeckers about the exodus of anglophones, it is all about blaming french quebeckers, separatism, linguistic laws, our supposed intolerance, and so on, vous connaissez la chanson."

    Here is the full quote, please not the last sentence :
    "Usually, when english quebeckers tell french quebeckers about the exodus of anglophones, it is all about blaming french quebeckers, separatism, linguistic laws, our supposed intolerance, and so on, vous connaissez la chanson. This documentary gives a different sound, it tells of a human experience."

    Michel Patrice

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  95. "How much do you want to bet that separatists would still demand transfer payments after a successful separation of the province"

    It is possible that some separatists think along these lines. I've encountered this kind of thinking before, where something like this was suggested with no apparent irony or sarcasm.

    I haven't heard a justification for it though.

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  96. @anon 11:49

    Just like she told you that you were good in bed?
    Thats just feel good talk, until the rug gets pulled under you. Then some neighbourhood allo with good pay or better percieved life gets a chance at the till.

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  97. "I'm starting to suspect that "Michel Patrice" and "Calgary Anon" are the same person, trying to promote their racist blog on this website. Why don't you go read vigile.net if you want to know why anyone who's not white, french and catholic, isn't accepted in this province."

    I don't think Calgary Anon. and Michel Patrice are the same person, but it is quite likely that Calgary Anon. sent Michel Patrice an email with a link to No Dogs or Anglophones.

    On Mr. Patrice's blog there is a link to "ANGLOMONDE, Observatoire de la Premiere Langue Intergalactique." It is a blatantly anti-English website. It is obvious that Mr. Patrice is an Anglophobe, despite his claims to the contrary.

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  98. @Michel Patrice,

    So when anglophones say that they have moved out of Quebec en masse after the establishment of bill 101, that they are lying? This is why all the Quebecois Pur Laine seppie and chauvanist types don't have a good reputation when it comes to integrity and/or honesty. Reminds me of that other blog, Angry French guy. He too had the double standards.

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  99. "Everyone suspects that you have sympathies for Quebec draconian language laws because of your ethnicity. You don't deny it. There is nothing wrong in having doubts. as mentioned before even an American with a Quebec Francophone roots, that doesn't know a word of French supported bill 101 just out of ethnic solidarity."

    Point taken; I don't deny it because I don't think it has any relevance; would you respect a feminist argument less or more if it came from a woman? An argument about racism if it came from a non-caucasian? I don't think you should.

    In my experience, out-of Quebec francophones tend to be the most willing to hate Quebeckers or speak out against bill 101. If ethnicity has an effect, it might not be the one you expect. Just a thought.

    ReplyDelete
  100. "Reminds me of that other blog, Angry French guy. He too had the double standards."

    Michel Patrice has a link to "Angry French Guy" on his blog too.

    ReplyDelete
  101. Anonymous 6:01, as the French philosopher Julien Benda correctly pointed out a long time ago, there are people in this world who operate on the principle of truth and justice, and there are those who operate on the principle of power and privilege. Those who operate on power and privilege always do so at the expense of truth and justice.

    People like M.Patrice, the Calgary guy, Angry French Guy, JF Lisee, or Jose Legault defend the power-wielding majority of Quebec and the established order because it guarantees privilege and upper hand for their cohort. So you can't expect much from these people. They're not interested in finding approximations of reality, they are interested in defending laws and historical interpretations that guard and justify the standing that their people have achieved and are very desperate to maintain.

    And this is for all the 101 apologists out there:

    "The most important aspect of propelling a society forward in a new direction, giving it hope, is recognizing the reality that surrounds you. If you can't do that, you're doomed. You commit collective suicide."

    -Chris Hedges

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  102. "I don't think Calgary Anon. and Michel Patrice are the same person, but it is quite likely that Calgary Anon. sent Michel Patrice an email with a link to No Dogs or Anglophones."

    I didn't actually, I just offered a link to his blog. I was as suprised as you when he showed up; is there programs that whow where traffic origin from? I believe there is.

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  103. "The most important aspect of propelling a society forward in a new direction, giving it hope, is recognizing the reality that surrounds you. If you can't do that, you're doomed. You commit collective suicide."

    Mettez ça dans votre pipe le canadiens!

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  104. Calgary Anomynous wrote at December 4, 2011 6:24 PM "In my experience, out-of Quebec francophones tend to be the most willing to hate Quebeckers or speak out against bill 101. If ethnicity has an effect, it might not be the one you expect. Just a thought."

    Hate Quebeckers or hate Quebecois? Because I don't think the two are the same.

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  105. People don't often make the distinction. But yes, I mean the francophone inhabitants of Quebec.

    This acadian lady from NB I knew coudn't speak of a quebeckers(cois?) without referring to them as "fucking quebeckers that should go back to their country", country here being used sarcastically. It made me uncomfortable. I think that's when I really started thinking about whether I was giving them a fair treatment or only participating in group-think.

    @Tree Stumper- The word impartial is absent from that quote. Note that it's possible to be biased *and* rational or civil. I only commented on the latter.

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  106. ...to Anon on Dec 2nd @ 3:07 & 3:08PM: I hope every bit of your futuristic synopsis through 2015 comes true. Quebec got far more than its fair share of transfer payments over the last few decades and enough is enough. They didn't do favour to this government, and they should feel the heat for it.

    Oh, and if Boob Rae wants to sue the government for not appointing bilinguals, let him go for it, but out of his PARTY'S coffers, not the public's because I just don't give a tinker's damn if Quebec is cut out of every opportunity after squandering money on language they way they have the last 4 decades!

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  107. "Ma femme est Colombienne.Ho!Le gros raciste pure laine que je suis.Communiquez avec nous en français et vous augmenterez vos chances d'acceptation de 90%!"
    Well, I'm not surprised! No one from interlecture and hard working cultures would choose you. With such a closed-minded, the only option for you are the people who cannot speak English, say bigot Quebecoises, North African Arabs, and Hispanics! Apart from knowing French, they don't have many things to offer. Unforturenately, Quebec seems to favor these people over people from more productive cultures, say European and East Asia. Soon Quebec will be come third world society with most of people live off of welfare.

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  108. "Unforturenately, Quebec seems to favor these people over people from more productive cultures, say European and East Asia"

    East Asia?Mon livreur de pizza vient justement de L'Asie de l'Est.Il fait beaucoup d'effort pour nous parler en français.Il sait maintenant que si il prononce un seul mot en globish,il n'aura pas de pourboire.

    Nous savons maintenant comment contrôler les anglouilles...Avec du cash!

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  109. Isn't it very racist to label hispanic countries as "non-productive"? And it's the Quebeckers that are the racists??!?

    Some internal consistancy, please!

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  110. @Calgary

    C'est ce que nous appelons du racisme sélectif.
    Vous comprenez aussi que mes posts sont fortement empreints de sarcasme,enfin je l'espère.

    ReplyDelete
  111. Yours yes, the sarcasm is evident. But the other guy seems to be speaking frankly and that shocks me. How can someone who posts on a blog complaining about racism (presumably agreeing with it) have racist opinions himself?

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  112. Et il ajoute "With such a closed-minded".

    C'est soit de l'humour,soit une totale incohérence.

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  113. It's the fact that East Asian people are hard wordking and disciplined while you cannot say that about Hispanic. Of cause, it will not come from political figures' mouths because of so-called politically incorrect.
    Asian people in US top in both income and education level while Hispanic and Black bottom.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_American
    It's also coherent with Average IQ level where Jews and East Asian top.
    I am not agains Hispanic or Arab or whatever, I simply say the fact.

    Again, it's wellknown in Quebec that saying the truth is being racist while being racist is legally acceptable!

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  114. Wow, you really went there huh?

    Yes, pointing out that south-east Asians do better on IQ tests and earn more money than Blacks and Hispanics isn't in and of itself racist.

    It's attributing that to moral or genetic inferiority that's racist. It's a complicated world out there, and there's more to people's socioeconomic status than how hard they worked.

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  115. Are you going to say that Jews, only 0.2% of the world population, have 25% of total Nobel prizes is only because of their socioeconomic status? What a load of BS!

    I want to point out that, saying someone is not racist because of marrying a Hispanic is just ridiculous. Simply because no one with good education would accept that moron with his racist POV. OK, you can say that I am racist again dump people while he is racist again smart people.
    (actually I don't give a f** about from which ethnic they are, I only believe that people should be free with their choices and be judged mostly on their achievement)

    BTW, I spent quite some time in US thus I know what Hispanics are good at :)

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  116. "BTW, I spent quite some time in US thus I know what Hispanics are good at :)"

    Sex?

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  117. Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. The best indicator of future success is still the socio-economic status of their parents.

    Sure, if someone marries a Hispanic that doesen't necessarily mean they are uber-tolerant; it does, however, mean that they are not so bogged down with prejudice that they will only marry a carbon-copy of themselves. It says nothing more and nothing less.

    Saying generalities like "I spent some time in US thus I know what Hispanics are good at :)" does label you as a racist though.

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    Replies
    1. Why do you think it unfolded quicker than you thought? I still don't see why the banks tell them to "buzz" off. What do you think needs to happen in order to get this going in the right direction? What would you like to see happen?
      Celine | http://hrpm.ca/index.cfm/Apartment-Listings-Toronto

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