Monday, November 28, 2011

OQLF SET FOR REIGN OF TERROR!

The future? OQLF enforcement officer pepper spraying protesters protecting an English sign.**
Last week's witch hunt of unilingual anglos at the Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec, by an angry mob of language militants supported by a sensationalist Press, was the culmination of a well-orchestrated campaign to pressure the government to act against the perceived rising influence of English in Quebec.
The embattled and bewildered Liberal government of Jean Charest, looking for any glimmer of approval, caved into this extremist pressure by announcing a crackdown, with the hiring of a bunch of new employees over at the Office québécois de la langue française.

The Oh-feece currently has about 200 hundred employees on staff and as you all know, with Quebec bureaucracy, it probably includes about 150 bosses. That has left the department with only about 3-5 inspectors for the island of Montreal, who despite their meagre numbers, still wreck plenty of havoc.
Adding 26 more employees will send a frightening number of inspectors out into the street, ready, willing and able to confront recalcitrant anglo and ethnic businesses who have the audacity to post hand-written unilingual signs like "Dishwasher  Wanted"

For French language militants, the decision by the government to gird up for battle is music to the ears of those who have for years dreamt of a Crusaders-like engagement against the heathens who dare to make a life for their non-francophone families within the realm of the hallowed French soil of Quebec, without due respect or obsequeence.

For them, if all goes as planned, the news media will be filled with linguistic war stories with the resulting tension, hopefully a kick start to the moribund independence movement.

In making its decision to acquiesce to the militants demands, the government  has opened a Pandora's box of linguistic strife, in a vain and futile gambit to somehow breathe life into a government destined for the scrap heap.

The government's announcement of an increase in manpower at the OQLF is a not-so-subtle, de facto, message that the rising attacks against English signage, English clerks, English bosses, English schools and English store names, is now to be fully sanctioned by a government, desperately trying to be seen battling English dragons that don't exist.

Readers, I'm not willing to call separatists Nazis, because Nazis they are not. Far from it.

That being said, it does seem that language militants/separatists are taking a page out of Herr Hitlers playbook in creating a scapegoated minority as a misdirection device, meant to enrage the masses and turn the anger into popular support for a separatist agenda, otherwise unsellable.

The targeting of the Jews and communists in pre-war Germany was nothing but a ploy to divide Germans into an 'Us versus Them' dynamic, with the Jews and communists portrayed as the oppressors of the natural ruling people of Germany.
Once this conflict was established and the German people convinced that they were under attack by impure elements, Hitler was able to lead the Germans into a war of adventure that ultimately led to the demise of the Third Reich.

And it all started with attacks on 'impure' stores, with rocks thrown through windows and calls for boycotts.

Is it too extreme to say that we are headed down the same road?
Already French language militants are calling for boycotts of English business that don't conform to their demands. Link

We've already seen a march down St. Catherine Street in Montreal with militants demanding that stores 'Frenchify' their names, even those already in compliance with the law. The mob invaded at least one store to verbally abuse minimum-wage clerks, as if they were somehow responsible for perceived language slights.
Not cool!

Is this a watershed? A turning point that represents a dangerous 'virage' not dissimilar to 'Kristallnacht' back in 1939 when Germans attacked Jewish stores violently, calling for boycotts and closures of business run by a minority that had lived peacefully among the Germans for centuries.

The new rise of extremism that we are in store for, will be a direct result of a government unwilling or unable to confront or ignore a radical minority that is overly exposed in the media.

That the government has given in to the campaign of misinformation, demagoguery and manipulation by a small cadre of dedicated anglophobes, represents a new page in Quebec history.
And so, we may very well be in store for state sanctioned oppression of Quebec's English and minorities.

How this plays out remains to be seen, but the Charest government has clearly been played and perhaps for the very first time, the separatists have out-manoeuvred the government.

Be afraid, be very afraid.. .


Wednesday's Post: Why the language campaign is based on a lie.  


**  By the way, the illustration at the top of the page  is a parody. If you don't 'get it,' go here. Link   Link

165 comments:

  1. On the one hand, this might just be the tempest in the teapot every sane person who actually shops in Montreal (en français) knows it to be.

    On the other hand, deep introspection on what constitutes "concern" for the "respect" of French and what constitutes "anglophobia" ought to be debated in the public space a lot more.

    I completely agree with the gist of your post, Editor, but you're not putting the emphasis and criticism where they ought to be - mainstream francophone media outlets.

    The same people who helped bring Jack Layton's party to the opposition earlier this year are looking to redress the "imbalance" with fabricated fear. Fear pushes ratings and journalistic ego.

    And it keeps the addicts hungry for more.

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  2. Why do we pay taxes if our own Government is out to harass and intimidate us English speaking Quebeckers?? They shit on our language and bully us to speak French with coercive measures taken straight out of a Nazi play book. Sometimes I wonder what the hell is going on here. Did thousands of Canadians die in France during WWII in vain? What is it about the concept of FREEDOM that the Quebec Government and these language zealots don't understand?  And why are we still voting in Liberals when they and the PQ are on the same page when it comes to attacking our rights? Stop donating to these asshole Liberals and stop volunteering for them.  They want you out of Quebec or dead as far as I'm concerned. I hope one day, when the balance tips, Montreal can be its own political entity free of ANY language laws.

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  3. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!1 Guy Lapage is boycotting the National Bank for hiring a unilingual anglo!
    http://www.ledevoir.com/societe/actualites-en-societe/337115/point-chaud-guy-a-lepage-songe-a-boycotter-la-banque-nationale

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  4. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  5. Ah, Kweebec. Distract people from the real issues (excessive debt) and attack a non-existant "enemy". Feels good to have left. However, Mr.Editor, I don't want to call you out but your story of these nazi's verbally abusing minimum wage employees, is this true? Can you provide a link. If this is true, I am utterly convinced that the abusee had a certain "look" to him. Maybe a bit more tanned than the pur laine stock.

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  6. Guy A. Lepage just made a serious mistake. Substitute the term Anglo with Black in that Le Devoir article cited above. This guy is just another racist, quasi intellectual. I hope the powers that be at Canada's public broadcaster are taking stock of this. Totally unacceptable. Imagine Don Cherry publicly yanking his assets out of a bank for hiring a unilingual Francophone and the shit storm that would ensue? 

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  7. To Marco re marchers;
    Manifestation pour la francisation des entreprises

    "Les chefs de la marche, le comédien et porte-parole du MMF Denis Trudel en tête, ont aussi fait intrusion dans quelques commerces, dont le Newshop. L’opération durait une trentaine de secondes alors qu’une poignée de manifestants criaient des slogans comme «le Québec, en français» devant les caisses enregistreuses. L’opération a soulevé l’ire des employés de la boutique American Apparel, qui ont bloqué l’accès au magasin et menacé d’appeler la police.

    «C’est une propriété privée», a lancé l’une des employées, en anglais."

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  8. Where are the police in all this? Are they simply standing by and watching these acts of intimidation? Where is the Gazette? Where are the feds in all this.. What are they waiting for.. What's next? Violence, Terrorism... Wake up all you non de-souch!!! Speak out!! Go in the stores and demand service in English!!

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  9. I'm usually a fairly good judge of character but I have to say that I was totally wrong on Jean Charest. When, he was in the federal PC party, I actually thought he was (for a politician) a pretty sincere and honest guy who would have made a good PM. Apparently, he's really just another pandering political sleaseball who'd sell his mother for a couple of extra seats. I'm embarrassed.

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  10. Imagine Don Cherry publicly yanking his assets out of a bank for hiring a unilingual Francophone and the shit storm that would ensue?

    Imaginez Donald LaCerise proposant la chasse aux pandas.Nous sommes précieux parce que nous représentons une rareté en amérique :)))

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  11. "Go in the stores and demand service in English!!"

    Je ne crois pas que ce soit un très bon conseil pour l'avenir...

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  12. "Where are the police in all this? Are they simply standing by and watching these acts of intimidation?"

    Tout à fait légal d'exiger d'être servi dans la langue officielle de notre Nation.

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  13. A banner "Au Quebec j'achete en francais" is equivalent to one that says "on Sundays I wear polka dots underwear"...i.e. it's completely trivial and inconsequential. Usually, protesters demand something specific, like: "we want a raise", or "we want more vacation time", or "we want profit sharing" etc...But who cares in what language you shop. I shop in French sometimes too. Sometimes I shop in English. But I don't march down Montreal's main street to announce that, just as I don't feel the need to announce what color are my boxers.

    If you protest, then have the guts to demand something specific. Don't play around with generalizations. If it's banning of verbal English from public space that you want (as Imperatif Francais has suggested - "we're ok with you speaking English at home, just don't take it outside"), then have the guts to voice it. But don't hide behind abstractions and hidden meanings. We'll still know you're a bigot.

    To me it looks like these people sense that they're doing wrong, in the way they try to rationalize everything, every single day, and how they hide behind cliches and platitudes. They're embarrassed of their views.

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  14. Anon 9:04AM: "Nous sommes précieux parce que nous représentons une rareté en amérique :))) "

    I'll leave this without a comment.

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  15. "Tout à fait légal d'exiger d'être servi dans la langue officielle de notre Nation. "

    Not if you take "exiger" to the level of bursting into privately-owned establishments and causing disturbances in them.

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  16. "Not if you take "exiger" to the level of bursting into privately-owned establishments and causing disturbances in them."

    Lorsque que la méthode douce ne fonctionne pas...Il faut passer à l'autre étape.Les commerces sont établis sur la place publique et s'affichent en publique.

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  17. "Lorsque que la méthode douce ne fonctionne pas"

    That's when it's time to cash in your chips and walk away. It's much better than making a fool of yourself.

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  18. "Les commerces sont établis sur la place publique et s'affichent en publique. "

    And you have the right to do what Guy A did - boycott these businesses. But you don't have the right to cause disturbances in them.

    I learned these things when I was 5 years old. Why didn't you? These are pretty basic things. Are you 5?

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  19. "I learned these things when I was 5 years old."

    Sans indiscrétion,quels commerces avez-vous boycotté?

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  20. "Sans indiscrétion,quels commerces avez-vous boycotté?"

    There were a few places in which I felt uncomfortable and annoyed (like when a girl kept answering me in French when I was talking to her in English, thus ending up with a half English half French conversation which I can't stand - usually I switch to French in such situations, but sometimes I feel like I'm the client so wtf). I did not make a fuss and I even made a purchase. But I never went back to that place. And that's the key.

    You should follow the same example. There is no need to make a fool of yourself. Act economically, not aggressively.

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  21. These protests need counter protests. The pur laine chauvanists are cowards when it comes to being confronted. Even when some employees block access and told them to F off in english they couldn't do anything. Thats why I would love to see Quebec become a dump for sending welfare recipients from other provinces. Could create some counter protestors that have time to protest against the pur laine chauvanists who are pissed off the Montreal is no longer a pur laine majority. Next census changes will be even more suprising.

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  22. "Lorsque que la méthode douce ne fonctionne pas...Il faut passer à l'autre étape.Les commerces sont établis sur la place publique et s'affichent en publique."

    Businesses are private property, owned by private interests and run by private corporations. They have nothing to do with your "place publique". There is no french money, and more importantly none of your monthly BS check goes to them.
    The law of supply and demand applies here just like everywhere else. Don't appreciate the way they serve you? Don't shop there. French is the language of the majority in Quebec, certainly it should have some power.

    You do realize that, if your dream were to come true, and all these "dirty english people and businesses" were to move out of the province, you'd be left with nothing, right? There are no french entrepreneurs, and when a Québécois Français does make it big, he's criticized by the rest of the little Québécois for having too much and not sharing, or his business is destroyed by unions.

    I know how you think though. You separatists expect for the english businesses to not only close shop, but to hand over everything they have to some poor Québécois, so they can run it in french. Hey, it worked for Hydro-Québec, right? Well I've got news for you, despite everything we receive for free, that's not going to happen.

    So maybe you want a province with only Couche-Tards and Jean-Coutus (minus Couche Tard, because the unions want them closed), but I enjoy having the choice. And I'm smart enough not to shop at places which don't serve me to my satisfaction, unlike you.

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  23. "There is no french money"

    Ils n'acceptent pas l'argent des Québécois?

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  24. "I know how you think though. You separatists expect for the english businesses to not only close shop, but to hand over everything they have to some poor Québécois..."

    Savez-vous lire?Nous leur demandons de s'exprimer dans la langue officielle de notre Nation.Si vous continuez,nous allons augmenter le tarif Hydro pour les anglos.

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  25. What is really stupid is that we entertain this "Anonymous" commenter, who probably spends all day on his computer drinking his Labatt50 funded by his BS check, coming directly from all of us.

    Look, my break is almost over and I need to get back to work, so "Anonymous"; if you don't have anything better to do then spew all this garbage, maybe you can stop being such a leach on the world and get a job.

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  26. "What is really stupid is that we..."

    Je vais vous dire ce qui est vraiment stupide jasoune: C'est de comparer les Québécois aux nazis.Je sais pertinemment que les cours d'histoire ont disparus de nos écoles mais bien honnêtement,certains anglos ont la mêche courte et pas à peu près.

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  27. "who probably spends all day on his computer drinking his Labatt50 funded by his BS check, coming directly from all of us."

    You may be wrong, Jason. This is Quebec/Canada after all. He could be working for the government (likely provincial, but maybe even federal), at some paper pushing pretend-job that requires 2 hours of effort a day, and 6 hours of bumming around.

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  28. "...at some paper pushing pretend-job that requires 2 hours of effort a day, and 6 hours of bumming around..."

    En pause,vous aussi?Bien sûre :)))

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  29. ...to Anon @ 8:11AM: SOSDDBS (same old s--t, different day, bigger shovel). The Anglophone minority is too lazy and too complacent to do anything about it. Howard Galganov was the most avid activist the Quebec minority ever had, and all he got was criticized for his efforts; furthermore, he came on the scene 20 years too late.

    Premier John James "Goldilocks" Charest: SOSDDBS!

    Premier John James "Goldilocks" Charest: The gonadless wonder.

    Premier John James "Goldilocks" Charest: A spineless jellyfish.

    Premier John James "Goldilocks" Charest: Another self-serving politician.

    Premier John James "Goldilocks" Charest is in it only for the money, and he'll retire double-dipping rich on the backs of federal and Quebec taxpayers. He will NEV-VER EV-VER have to worry about where his next meal, his next medication or his next dollar to maintain his household for the rest of his life. He'll die without a worry in the world thanks to his sitting on his fat ass and collecting the annual fully-indexed CHA-CHING...his MP cabinet minister's pension and his pemier's/MNA's pension.

    How about the rest of you? You'll be busting your collective asses off for a pittance compared to what he'll get from before age 60 sitting on his ass for the rest of his life.

    Not only that...but there is a plenitude of public and parapublic retirees who retired as early as age 50 who will be receiving fully-indexed RREGOP benefits the rest of their lives. The gouvernemama had to cut back recently for NEW retirees, and new workers won't be getting the same benefits these front-end baby boomers are going to rake in until their dying day.

    Even my own employer, in the private sector, recently cut off new hires from being able to collect the defined benefit pension plan, a way better bet than the new defined contribution plan that they'll have to endure. In a defined benefit plan, the employer assumes the risks to ensure the benefits are met. In a defined contribution plan, the employees assume the risks.

    Anyone just entering the workforce, you're GENERATION SCREWED! ...unless, of course, you get a career job in politics. Just swallow yourself whole and abandon your principles and you may succeed!

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  30. "Si vous continuez,nous allons augmenter le tarif Hydro pour les anglos."

    LOL that was funny ... in a pathetic way of course.

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  31. "And it all started with attacks on 'impure' stores, with rocks thrown through windows and calls for boycotts.

    Is it too extreme to say that we are headed down the same road?"

    Can you clear something up for me?

    Often I hear that if francophones want to have french services, then instead of using government pressure they should let the market speak for them. Instead of *legislating* french services, they should vote with their wallets.

    Here, you have citizens that care enough about getting french services that they do want to vote with their wallets, law or no law, inspector or no inspector. Why isn't it ok?

    Then tell me this - if francophones are not supposed to legislate french services, or vote with their wallets, or complain - how are they supposed to get what they want?

    I'm sure in Toronto and Vancouver, no one is ever peeved that some businesses don't offer services in the language of the majority, right?

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  32. "Guy A. Lepage just made a serious mistake. Substitute the term Anglo with Black in that Le Devoir article cited above. This guy is just another racist, quasi intellectual. I hope the powers that be at Canada's public broadcaster are taking stock of this. Totally unacceptable."

    There's a huge difference. Black is entirely a superficial thing. There's no difference in service. You can't say, "that service by a black man was unacceptable" on account of the colour of the skin - it has zero impact on the quality of the service itself. The only problems it causes arise from the bigotry of the customer himself or herself.

    Language, however, *does* affect the quality of service.

    "Imagine Don Cherry publicly yanking his assets out of a bank for hiring a unilingual Francophone and the shit storm that would ensue?"

    Unilingual francophones don't get hired outside of quebec - unless it's in very specific jobs, like french branch of education ministry, etc. Certainly not in a bank. If you walked into a bank in toronto and met up with a clerk incapable of serving you in the language of the majority, your language, you'd probably complain.

    If the management told you "Well, this is how we do things here. Don't like it? Take your business elsewhere!", and called you a bigot for it, you'd probably be peeved. I know I would be.

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  33. "If you walked into a bank in toronto and met up with a clerk incapable of serving you in the language of the majority, your language, you'd probably complain. "

    I don't think there is a single bank in Montreal in which at the front end there is someone who cannot service the clients in French. If there are any uni-lingual English-speakers, they work in the back end.

    But you probably have a problem with those too. Because that affects the ability to "work in French" for the francophones. But pardon me, I think it's a bunch of bs. i think it's a protectionist and opportunist move disguised as concern for the language.

    And imagine this - if you were to open up a business in BC or Ontario, the government, or a citizen organization, would not come to your door step to demand that you modify the language of operations of your business. That kind of thing happens only in Quebec.

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  34. To Anon 4:05pm, you're wrong. Guy A Lepage doesn't deal with National Bank executives or Vice Presidents, he deals with front line staff unless he has a second career as a financier that we aren't privy to.  Unless he has issues with the level of service he receives by them, he has no say in the matter of who they hire as aVP. By him boycotting a bank and publicly outing a person  on its payroll (a qualified person no less) because he can't speak French is a public lynching the likes of which DOES have parallels with the Deep South prior to the 1960's. 
     Also, the point about Cherry doing a similar stunt was a hypothetical scenario, the main thrust of which would be the consequences of such a stunt. I have no doubt he would be roundly denounced. 

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  35. This is why Montreal, with it's 50%+ non Québécois population needs to débarrasser the rest of Quebec. Too different.

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  36. Anonymous 4:05PM: "If the management told you "Well, this is how we do things here. Don't like it? Take your business elsewhere!", and called you a bigot for it, you'd probably be peeved. "

    You might well be peeved, but at the same time you wouldn't even think of involving your government in BC and ON, because the government would just laugh you out of the building. See, in ON and BC the government would tell you to find a new job (if you're an employee seeking acceptable working conditions) or shop elsewhere (if you're a customer seeking service), because the business that told you "it's how we do it here" has the right to do so - it's a business after all, not a public venture.

    In Quebec, on the other hand, the government and the media pick up the story and act. And you still argue that there is nothing unique about it. Well, I think there is.

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  37. we have to separate the separatists from the french Canadians. I live and work in the West Island and have yet to encounter anyone who believes this shit. but then again, West Island, probably the most billingual and chill spot in all of Quebec. Haters can fuck off.

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  38. Gens du pays
    Gang de chomeurs
    Bien etre sociale, c'est la rigeur !

    That my friends is the provincial anthem of Quebec, where we are sooooo far behind we think we are in first place ! (well some people do....)
    Go ahead Mr Anonymous.......prove that anthem wrong. You can't !

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  39. "This is why Montreal, with it's 50%+ non Québécois..."

    Tiens donc!Un autre attardé fraîchement débarqué de son container...Petit épisode de turbulences en haute mer? :)

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  40. "Go ahead Mr Anonymous.......prove that anthem wrong. You can't !"

    Je croyais que c'était l'hymne nationale ontarien...Oups!J'oubliais,ils n'ont pas d'hymne,seulement celui volé aux Québécois.

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  41. "we have to separate the separatists from the french Canadians."

    Bonne chance!

    En passant (vous devez être vieux)l'expression "canayen fraça" n'est plus utiliseé depuis 1960.

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  42. "J'oubliais,ils n'ont pas d'hymne,seulement celui volé aux Québécois"

    English Canada had the "Maple Leaf Forever" as their anthem. It should have been retained, instead of adopting "O Canada" in a useless, neverending attempt to accommodate the Quebecois.

    Here's another popular Quebecois song from Gilles (Inbred) Vigneault:

    "Mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la merde!"

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  43. "Je croyais que c'était l'hymne nationale ontarien...Oups!J'oubliais,ils n'ont pas d'hymne,seulement celui volé aux Québécois"

    My goal was to get under your skin, Mr Anonymous...I do believe I succeeded ! On that not...Salut...et bon soir la visite !

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  44. "Gang de chomeurs" From a douchebag.

    Taux de chômage (septembre 2011)

    - Québec : 7.3
    - ontario : 7.6

    http://www.statcan.gc.ca/subjects-sujets/labour-travail/lfs-epa/t111104a3-fra.htm

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  45. "Unilingual francophones don't get hired outside of quebec - unless it's in very specific jobs, like french branch of education ministry, etc. Certainly not in a bank. If you walked into a bank in toronto and met up with a clerk incapable of serving you in the language of the majority, your language, you'd probably complain."

    Not true. There are quite a few unilingual Francophones working in various businesses in Hawkesbury, Ontario, for example. I encountered a unilingual French speaking store clerk at the Hawkesbury Canadian Tire store and I didn't complain, because I am not a shit disturbing asshole like many Quebecois happen to be.

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  46. @ Anon. at 5:59 PM,

    "Taux de chômage (septembre 2011)

    - Québec : 7.3
    - ontario : 7.6"

    What about people on welfare? There are many, many more people on welfare in Quebec than in Ontario, so overall there are considerably more people who are not working in Quebec.

    We need to eliminate the 8.5 billion dollars of transfer payments going to Quebec each year. If that happens, then a significant number of their welfare cases might end up homeless on the streets. Then they can sing "Gens du Pays" while they beg for money.

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  47. "You might well be peeved, but at the same time you wouldn't even think of involving your government in BC and ON, because the government would just laugh you out of the building. See, in ON and BC the government would tell you to find a new job (if you're an employee seeking acceptable working conditions) or shop elsewhere (if you're a customer seeking service), because the business that told you "it's how we do it here" has the right to do so - it's a business after all, not a public venture."

    Only because, right now, it's an oddity to have a unillingual english speaker unable to work in english in non-quebec Canada.

    If you look in the south of the united states, where there are enough spanish immigrants that unilingual english speakers are actually inconvenienced, you'll see that they certainly do have laws promoting the use of english. And spanish there is nowhere near as prevalent as english in Quebec.

    The second english speakers would be put in the position of the francophones of Quebec, the second the laws would come up.

    "In Quebec, on the other hand, the government and the media pick up the story and act. And you still argue that there is nothing unique about it. Well, I think there is."

    But there isn't - other legislations put in the same position enact similar laws. I had to point out to a dutch friend of mine that his country's language policies were way more restrictive than Quebec's. In the Netherlands, immigrants are actually forced to pass a dutch exam within 3 years of immigration.

    It's easy to promote "freedom of expression" when english already enjoys a status of hegemony - promoting it when it leads you yourself being inconvenienced, that's when it'll be convincing..

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  48. "If you look in the south of the united states, where there are enough spanish immigrants that unilingual english speakers are actually inconvenienced, you'll see that they certainly do have laws promoting the use of english."

    Which laws are these, and do they ban or restrict the use of Spanish?

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  49. "We need to eliminate the 8.5 billion dollars of transfer payments going to Quebec each year. If that happens, then a significant number of their welfare cases might end up homeless on the streets. Then they can sing "Gens du Pays" while they beg for money."

    Quebec pays its taxes to Ottawa like every other provinces. In the past, Quebec paid for other provinces. The rules suddenly don't apply for Quebec anymore because you don't like them? That's nice.

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  50. "There are many, many more people on welfare in Quebec than in Ontario..."

    Apportez-nous les statistiques svp.Par la même occasion,parlez-nous un peu des autres provinces canadiennes qui bénificient de ce programme.

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  51. "If you look in the south of the united states, where there are enough spanish immigrants that unilingual english speakers are actually inconvenienced, you'll see that they certainly do have laws promoting the use of english."

    Name a state-wide US law equivalent to 101.

    In fact, name any such law, be it local or municipal.

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  52. "Only because, right now, it's an oddity to have a unillingual english speaker unable to work in english in non-quebec Canada."

    There are areas in the RoC which are overwhelmingly Indian or Chinese. Yet no laws are forthcoming.

    Anon, look how your pequiste logic falls apart here on this blog.

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  53. "Which laws are these, and do they ban or restrict the use of Spanish?"

    In Arizona, the people voted in an amendment to the state constitution that would ban the use of any other language than english by public employees, though I don't speak legalese so I'm a bit vague on the details.

    They exempt teachers, insofar as they need to speak non-english to get a student up to par as fast as possible, and actions "to protect public health or safety" or "to protect the rights of criminal defendants or victims of crimes". Presumably, everything not included is not exempt.

    For instance, if you speak spanish and the government clerk speaks spanish, it would have been illegal for the clerk to serve you in anything but english.

    It was later struck down by the supreme court as being unconstitutional, of course. But can you imagine it being inshrined in Quebec's (theoretical) constitution that no government services can be provided in english? I don't condone, to me it's taking a step (or a marathon) too far. I'm only trying to point out that Quebec is far from being the only place on earth to enact language legislation.

    You can see the text here : http://www.languagepolicy.net/archives/art28.htm

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  54. "Quebec pays its taxes to Ottawa like every other provinces."

    Quebec pays taxes, but it still gets more money back than it sends to Ottawa every year...billions more.

    "In the past, Quebec paid for other provinces."

    How long ago? The equalization program has only been in place since the 1950's and Quebec has been receiving money from the rest of Canada for decades.

    "The rules suddenly don't apply for Quebec anymore because you don't like them?"

    Wealthy English-speaking provinces shouldn't be sending money to a deadbeat, debt-ridden province that systematically discriminates against its English-speaking minority. Moreover, Quebec has social programs (i.e. daycare and university tuition) that are cheaper than those of the provinces sending it money. The equalization program was set up to provide comparable social services across the country, not to provide superior services in a poor province like Quebec.

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  55. Other Anon, it's amusing that you call my logic pequiste. I'm a Calgarian, not a Quebecker. Not an ex-Quebecker either.

    Yes, I'm perfectly aware that there are areas in the RoC that are overwhelmingly Indian or Chinese. These are small enclaves; none of these are so large as to be a real inconvenience to a uniligual english-speaker trying to find work. Though, that may one day change, who knows with our declining birth rate?

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  56. "It was later struck down by the supreme court as being unconstitutional, of course. "

    There you go.

    "I'm only trying to point out that Quebec is far from being the only place on earth to enact language legislation."

    Then give us examples of state wide/country-wide regulations similar to 101. We're still waiting. And limit yourself to the laws which are in existence, not ones that got deemed unconstitutional and shut down.

    (The Toubon law in France is the only one that comes to mind, but unlike the godly status 101 enjoys in Quebec, in France Toubon law is considered farcical by much of the populace. And ironically, that law is also in a French speaking country, and was passed in opposition to English. What is it with the French?)

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  57. "These are small enclaves; none of these are so large as to be a real inconvenience to a uniligual english-speaker"

    More rationalization.

    We seem to have a Canadian apologist for 101 on our hands. I suppose it's in the name of "national unity", isn't it?


    "Though, that may one day change, who knows with our declining birth rate? "

    What would happen when this and that...notice how you're stuck in the realm of guessing and assumptions. In the meantime in Quebec, these things are real.

    "These are small enclaves;"

    Vancouver - half Asian at this point. Yet no language laws in the making.

    Any more rationalizations?

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  58. "But can you imagine it being inshrined in Quebec's (theoretical) constitution that no government services can be provided in english?"

    It's easy to imagine. It would happen immediately following the separation of Quebec from Canada. There are already some government services in Quebec that are not available in English.

    "I'm only trying to point out that Quebec is far from being the only place on earth to enact language legislation."

    How many of these other places have been cited by the United Nations for violating basic human rights, which has happened with Quebec?

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  59. Do you also suggest to kick Manitoba and the Maritimes out of Canada too? On a per-capita basis, they take out much more money from equalization payments than Quebec. It's just that Quebec has about a quarter of the population of Canada, so even a smaller amount of money per capita amounts to large sums compared to smaller provinces. Yet, whenever people complain about the equalization payments, they only target Quebec...

    Equalization payments in quebec were 1945$ per inhabitant last year ; the national average is 1991$. Ontario receives 1732$ per inhabitant. Manitoba receives 3012$ - let's kick out these freeloaders too! PEI receives a mind-numbing 4364$ per inhabitant - more than twice what Quebec receives!

    Not sure what to make about Quebec's social services. Quebec also has much higher provincial taxes to pay for those - not sure how A leads to B. Besides, aren't equalization payments supposed to be spendable at the discretion of the province?

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  60. "Vancouver - half asian."

    Don't conflate ethnicity with language, seriously. How many of these cannot speak english? Census 2006 says 109,580 out of 3 millions. Do you realize that that's 3%?

    Yes, small enclaves. Small. Minuscule, even. I've never had the problem of walking anywhere and not being able to be served, even in China town in Vancouver.

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  61. @Anonymous 7:37

    Belle recherche,bravo et merci de remettre les pendules à l'heure.

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  62. Je rêve d'une guerre civile...

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  63. "Je rêve d'une guerre civile..."

    Beaucoup de Québécois sont prêts.Pour l'instant j'aimerais bien me procurer du "spray" anti-anglouille comme sur la photo.

    ReplyDelete
  64. ... you're not going to make me regret defending you, are you?

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  65. "... you're not going to make me regret defending you, are you?"

    Non,non!Aucun problème,je faisais référence à la milice Québécoise.Je n'ai absolument rien contre les anglophones respectueux.Mes commentaires sont destinés particulièrement aux angryphones.

    Dites-moi que vous n'êtes pas un angryphone ;-)

    ReplyDelete
  66. There's a Quebec Militia? Is this some kind of obscure cultural reference?

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  67. There's a Quebec Militia? Is this some kind of obscure cultural reference?

    Non,elle est bien réelle et de plus en plus organisée.Je crois (selon leur blogue) qu'ils ont de plus en plus de membres...Et c'est parfaitement légal.


    http://www.milice.qc.ca/

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  68. Voici la page facebook de cette milice

    (près de 2000 membres!)

    http://www.facebook.com/groups/131989300312/

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  69. "Do you also suggest to kick Manitoba and the Maritimes out of Canada too? On a per-capita basis, they take out much more money from equalization payments than Quebec."

    Manitoba and the Maritimes don't have racist language laws like Quebec and their residents aren't a bunch of ingrates like the Quebecois.

    "Not sure what to make about Quebec's social services. Quebec also has much higher provincial taxes to pay for those"

    If the equalization payments were stopped, Quebec's taxes would increase even more. The social programs as they are would become completely unaffordable.

    "Je rêve d'une guerre civile..."
    "Beaucoup de Québécois sont prêts."

    The Quebecois are ready to run and hide in the woods like they did during both world wars. They behaved like cowards then and they will behave like cowards again in any future civil war.

    "... you're not going to make me regret defending you, are you?"

    You should move to Quebec from Calgary and try living amongst these yahoos for a while. Your attitude will change. Familiarity with the Quebecois breeds contempt.

    "There's a Quebec Militia? Is this some kind of obscure cultural reference?"

    Believe it or not, there really is a Quebec militia (of retards). They are very comfortable performing their maneuvers and hiding in the backwoods.

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  70. "They are very comfortable performing their maneuvers and hiding in the backwoods."

    Les forêts sont plutôt rares sur l'île de Montréal...Non?

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  71. "Les forêts sont plutôt rares sur l'île de Montréal...Non?"

    There is a forest right on Mount Royal, smack dab in the middle of Montreal...I have heard that there are a lot of gay guys up there.

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  72. "I have heard that there are a lot of gay guys up there..."

    Un sujet qui semble vous intéresser.

    Je ne crois pas que les gars de la MPQ apprécieraient ce genre d'humour.Ils ne semblemt pas avoir le sens de l'humour si vous voulez mon avis.

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  73. Anon 7:37PM: "Don't conflate ethnicity with language, seriously. How many of these cannot speak english?"

    The can speak English, even though many of them don't live in English. Just like in Montreal most non-Francos are able to speak French, but don't live in French.

    Now, why is it that in BC the language someone lives a personal life in doesn't bother anyone? Why doesn't it bother anyone when someone posts a sign in a non-Enlgish language? Why doesn't anyone complain that English is not "predominant"? Why aren't there any laws to regulate these things? Why aren't there mobs of angry Anglos marching down Chinatown, bursting into stores, and demanding re-naming?

    Remember, Vancouver is half non-Anglo, just like Montreal is half non-Franco. The situations are comparable. You can't hide behind a "small enclave" excuse, or "ethnicity is not a language" one. You must admit that culture, mentality, cultural arrogance, and societal attitudes play a role here.

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  74. "The situations are comparable."

    Amérique du Nord : 325 000 000 d'anglophones
    6 000 000 de francophones

    Quel est votre Q.I ?

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  75. I wasn't under the impression that Bill 101 meant to change how people behaved in their own homes. I thought it forced businesses to use billingual advertising and signeage, and to provide services in french. I thought it's only fair, since it's the language of the majority.

    In Chinatown, it's accepted that there's no english *because* it's a small enclave. "Hey Honey, let's go take a stroll in the ethnic part of town." It's what makes it exotic. There's nothing inconvenient about it.

    Now, say they started having mandarin-only signeage/service at the local Walmart - then you might get angry mobs. Of course that won't happen for reals, english enjoys too much of a hegemony on a global scale. The only way it could is if the rate of immigration outweighted the rate of integration, as some localities in the south of the US.

    In Montreal, however, new immigrants can and do integrate in the language of the local english minority, national majority. If there wasn't legislation to insure service in the language of the majority, you could (and did in the past) get a situation where Quebeckers are treated as second-class citizens in their own city.

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  76. I mean, if you believe it would be acceptable for you to learn Mandarin just to be able to work and get service in Vancouver - then by all means! Show us how it's done. Lead by example. Enlighten the rest of us.

    Until then, though, I will continue to say that the Quebeckers deserve what you take for granted in your own life.

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  77. @Anonymous 9:15

    Alleluia!

    Merci mon frère.Thanks bro!

    ReplyDelete
  78. At 9:15PM, your reasoning would make sense if it weren't for a fact that the majority of immigrants and Anglos do manage in French. And yet it is not enough for the Quebeckers.

    Of course 101 was meant to change people's behavior - it was a social engineering policy that aimed to create a society where everyone's dominant and first-resort language is French, with English lingering somewhere in the background and spoken only to tourists. Instead, 101 managed to achieve a state where almost everyone can speak French, but not necessarily as a first-resort default language. And to me that's a fair compromise, and a standard in multi-ethnic societies. Yet for many francos, it isn't good enough. And this is where the problem lies.

    I can agree that every state is entitled to use measures that ensure the everyone knows the language of the majority, but demanding that everyone lives in it is too much. It's a recipe for a societal disaster, and a guarantor of never-ending annoyance for both the demanding party (because they'll never get what they want), and the demanded party (because they're stuck with the annoying bunch that buzzes around their heads all the time).

    One note about the concept of "angryphone" - it's a very clever technique. Rattle the cage non-stop for 34 years, and then point out that the tiger is roaring. Very industrious indeed.

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  79. I'm not going to disagree with you - people have the right to live in whatever language they want at home. And you'll have extremists in quebec - but there's extremists everywhere, we have our own here in Alberta, as you might imagien.

    I'm just not sure the society of Quebec as a whole actually wants to legislate what people speak at home. What kids speak in school, what language is on advertisements/business signeage, sure. But at home?

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  80. "if you believe it would be acceptable for you to learn Mandarin just to be able to work and get service in Vancouver"

    I think this: if I'm in Vancouver and a job I stumble upon requires Mandarin, then I either learn Mandarin, or look for another employment. I would NOT be in favor of meddling with that business and trying to get them to accommodate me. They may require Mandarin FOR A REASON, and I, a non-Mandarin speaker, may not be able to perform the tasks. Or maybe, they do not LIKE English speakers, which is their goddamn right. Because it is their goddamn business, and they're entitled to whatever business strategy they choose for themselves.

    Next, if I'm in Vancouver and I cannot get service in English, then I either order in sign language, or I leave and look for a different store/restaurant.

    So here it is.

    What I would NOT of is to run to the government like a sissy, or join a mob and empowered by the rabble march into the stores to demand they do what I tell them. Such behavior is below any standard. And lately it's commonplace here in Quebec, covered favorable by the media, and not opposed by the government.

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  81. "But at home? "

    This is not spelled out in the law for 2 reasons:

    1. it's not feasible - monitoring every home is not physically possible
    2- it would expose Quebec to international condemnation

    But that's what 101 aimed at. The preamble of 101 states that unequivocally:

    "to make French the language of Government and the Law, as well as the normal and everyday language of work, instruction, communication, commerce and business"

    So not only commerce, work, and law/government. Communication also. And this is why Quebeckers are not pleased today. They hear other people speak English, and even though those people can switch to French when necessary, they don't do it on their own volition.

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  82. "I think this: if I'm in Vancouver and a job I stumble upon requires Mandarin, then I either learn Mandarin, or look for another employment. I would NOT be in favor of meddling with that business and trying to get them to accommodate me. They may require Mandarin FOR A REASON, and I, a non-Mandarin speaker, may not be able to perform the tasks."

    They may. Unilingual anglophones in Quebec do find employment, don't they? So do Mandarin unilinguals in Vancouver. But they're the exception, not the rule. I'm saying that if english speakers were put in the situation where it did become the rule, they'd react - and so did the people in Arizona, unconstitutional law nonwithstanding.

    "Or maybe, they do not LIKE English speakers, which is their goddamn right."

    No, it is not their right. No more than not liking jews, blacks, asians, gays, or any other group you can think of. You're not allowed to discriminate.

    "Next, if I'm in Vancouver and I cannot get service in English, then I either order in sign language, or I leave and look for a different store/restaurant."

    You don't tell the store owner "The reason I'm leaving is because you refuse to serve in the language of the majority of this city"? I would.

    For the other comment - I thought "Communications" implied medias, TV, ads and that sort of stuff in french.

    As per "And this is why Quebeckers are not pleased today. They hear other people speak English, and even though those people can switch to French when necessary, they don't do it on their own volition. " - is this based on anything? Even annecdotes? Because it sounds like just demonizing a political opponent to me.

    All the articles on this website refer to french people protesting unilingual signeage/service. I've yet to see people protesting "He knows french - BUT HE SPEAKS IN ENGLISH WHEN I'M NOT THERE!"

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  83. Regarding English as working languages:

    Since my arrival in Montreal, I have been working in a number of organizations. In all positions I work where English is the working language. Francophones may speak French to each other if they want or if their counterpart speaks French too. However, once someone speaks English, all turn to English. As well, while communications from higher-ups or from HR may be bilingual, communications among the workers are in English.

    Can that be turned into French? I doubt it. IT world is almost exclusively English. First, virtually all programming languages are based on English. Second, the consumers for IT services are more outside than inside of Quebec. Add to that the American partner - by far the biggest Quebec trading partner - English simply rules.

    Systematically, the practice can not be stopped. The government may, if they want, prevent that practice, but not without severe economic consequences. For example, if the government should come to my employer and ask it to stop what we are doing in my department alone, my company would relocate us, around 200 of us, out. Most likely to Waterloo. For the job, location does not really mean much. Remember, that is 200 of well-paid job, and most of the company's income comes not from Quebec.

    Extrapolate that to other IT functions, be they independent companies or IT functions within bigger companies. Ubisoft, Nakisa, SAP to name a few. Those are thousands of well-paid jobs in Montreal. I know for fact that a good portion of them do not speak French well enough to be able to work in French 8 hours a day.

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  84. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  85. Anonymous at 22:02,

    "All the articles on this website refer to french people protesting unilingual signeage/service. I've yet to see people protesting "He knows french - BUT HE SPEAKS IN ENGLISH WHEN I'M NOT THERE!""

    Try to scour www.imperatif-francais.org, quebecfrancais.org or www.vigile.net. What you wrote there has been discussed and demanded in those sites, including call for the government to curb private parties to speak English while in public place

    ReplyDelete
  86. Anonymous from Calgary,

    Would you be so kind to point out if there is a province or territory in Canada that prevents anglophone or allophone parents to send their children to French school?

    ReplyDelete
  87. "Would you be so kind to point out if there is a province or territory in Canada that prevents anglophone or allophone parents to send their children to French school?"

    All of them, actually.

    You may not follow the news too much - but some english parents were angry when the Shaun Graham government in New-Brunswick tried to get rid of early immersion. Said parents said they would enroll their kids in french schools - only to be told that they don't have that right.

    To have the right to enrol your child in a minority language school in Canada, one of the parents must have done schooling in that language, or have it as a mother tongue.

    In Quebec, on top of those two possibilities, you can also prove that you are ethnically descended from an original english quebecker via a certificate. Hilariously out-dated, I know, but it is an additional right that out-of-quebec francophones do not have.

    Note that immersion schools are entirely different - they count as english schools. Everyone, no matter in which province they live, have the right to have their child educated in the language of the *majority*.

    I don't have the time to track down every province, but I'll offer Ontario as an example. Here's from their government website (http://www.ofa.gov.on.ca/en/faq.html#q12)

    I would like to enrol my child in a French language school. Is my child eligible?
    For a child to be automatically admitted, one of the parents or guardians must be a Canadian citizen and meet one of the following criteria:

    completed his or her elementary education in a French-language school in Canada; or
    have French as the first language learned and still understood; or
    one of the children in the family is enrolled in a French-language school in Canada or has previously attended one.

    If neither parent meets these conditions, an admissions committee will determine whether or not the child is eligible. Please note that French-language schools meet the specific needs of francophones and operate entirely in French, including in their communications with parents. Non-French-speaking parents who want their children to learn French should contact the school boards in their area to identify the immersion school nearest to them.

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  88. "Now, say they started having mandarin-only signeage/service at the local Walmart - then you might get angry mobs. Of course that won't happen for reals, english enjoys too much of a hegemony on a global scale. The only way it could is if the rate of immigration outweighted the rate of integration, as some localities in the south of the US."

    You should get out more. Ever been to Ontario? There's a mall in Markham (near Toronto) whose signage is entirely in some asian language (mandarin?) It doesn't seem to cause any problems there.

    "
    In Montreal, however, new immigrants can and do integrate in the language of the local english minority, national majority. If there wasn't legislation to insure service in the language of the majority, you could (and did in the past) get a situation where Quebeckers are treated as second-class citizens in their own city."


    Despite what the separatist propaganda would have you believe, the reason French Quebeckers were treated as second class citizens in their own province, as you said, isn't because of language. The catholic church and the governments of the time are the main culprits.

    Times have changed since then, and the simple fact is that we have "language laws" because of a feeling of insecurity that's being dragged along by older generations (who did go through some real language issues), and their ignorant offspring who never get out of their little town.

    Here's an idea: if you don't like the language in which a business serves you in, don't go there anymore. I wouldn't personally shop at that asian mall I told you about. If seeing "Future Shop" bothers you, don't shop there. Just go to the Québécois equivalent, owned by a french-canadian businessman.
    Oh, wait...

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  89. "You should get out more. Ever been to Ontario? There's a mall in Markham (near Toronto) whose signage is entirely in some asian language (mandarin?) It doesn't seem to cause any problems there."

    Do people in Markham express the difficulty to do their groceries because it's so difficult to find a store with english service? If not, you missed the point I was trying to make.

    Small enclaves exist. For instance, there is a store on ct st, 16 ave here in Calgary that is entirely asian owned/operated. When I went there with my girlfriend, almost all the signeage wasn't in english and there were 1 or 2 stores where the teller didn't know enough english to be able to tell us prices and such.

    Such a place is an oddity, and not an inconvenience to the population ; they can go across the road to the Safeway or whatever.

    "Despite what the separatist propaganda would have you believe, the reason French Quebeckers were treated as second class citizens in their own province, as you said, isn't because of language. The catholic church and the governments of the time are the main culprits."

    Seperatist propaganda did not reach Ontario, New-Brunswick and Alberta, the three provinces in which I've lived.

    I'm also uninterested in who caused what - I understand that given the situation, I too would vote for legislation that guaranteed me the right to be served and to work in the language of the majority.

    "Times have changed since then, and the simple fact is that we have "language laws" because of a feeling of insecurity that's being dragged along by older generations (who did go through some real language issues), and their ignorant offspring who never get out of their little town."

    Sure. Does that mean that they never ever talk about it again?

    "Here's an idea: if you don't like the language in which a business serves you in, don't go there anymore. I wouldn't personally shop at that asian mall I told you about. If seeing "Future Shop" bothers you, don't shop there. Just go to the Québécois equivalent, owned by a french-canadian businessman.
    Oh, wait... "

    Be careful of the pot calling the kettle black. There's precious few corporations in Canada still owned by Canadians - we don't seem to be doing much better than the Quebeckers. Even Tim Hortons is owned by americans nowadays, and Zellers is about to close.

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  90. Calgary Anon: “They may. Unilingual anglophones in Quebec do find employment, don't they? So do Mandarin unilinguals in Vancouver. But they're the exception, not the rule.”

    I’m not sure if you’re deflecting on purpose, or if you’re misunderstanding. We’re not talking here about employees unilingual in a language of a minority (non-English in Canada, or non-French in Quebec). We’re talking about a minority employer who puts out a job offer where the language of a minority (e.g. Mandarin) is required. Now, you seem to be in favor of a Quebec-style policy where the government steps in to mediate on behalf of the majority in order to have the business conform to that majority (i.e make the job available to members of the majority too). What I’m saying is that there should be no such policy, because it’s within the rights of a business to set the requirements. If the majority is left out of the business dealings, then it’s the business owner’s problem. Maybe the owner wants to cater to the minority ONLY and to totally bypass and ignore the majority. And it’s his right to do so, whether you like it or not.


    Calgary Anon: “I'm saying that if english speakers were put in the situation where it did become the rule, they'd react - and so did the people in Arizona, unconstitutional law nonwithstanding.”

    You’re in the realm of hypothetical again. But as the examples of Canada and the US illustrate, it’s not so easy to pass 101-like legislations there. They do tend to get thrown out as unconstitutional.
    And we can only guess what would happen if the situations were reversed. I, for one, do not believe that the “threatened minority” argument as the central reason here. I think it is a major cop out. I think the real motive behind laws such as bill 101 is French cultural arrogance that is well documented throughout history. And it is not an accident that the most comprehensive language legislations happen to exist in French-speaking countries (Quebec, France, Belgium, Switzerland)


    Calgary Anon: “No, it is not their right. No more than not liking jews, blacks, asians, gays, or any other group you can think of. You're not allowed to discriminate.”

    I agree that discrimination is bad, but you are allowed to discriminate if you’re the businessmen who invested HIS money, HIS time and HIS effort to create a venture. And unfortunately, through experiences people do tend to develop animosities. So if a Chinese businessman in Vancouver has a problem with white Anglos, he has to right not to hire them into HIS enterprise. And he has the right to make Mandarin the main language of operations, at his own risk or detriment. And if YOU don’t like it, then you don’t have to work there, or do business there, or shop there. But you don’t have the right to meddle in his internal operations.


    Calgary Anon: “You don't tell the store owner "The reason I'm leaving is because you refuse to serve in the language of the majority of this city"? I would.”

    I wouldn’t. And you would? Now, I am almost convinced that you are a franco living in Alberta. That kind of mindset can only come from Quebec.


    Calgary Anon: “For the other comment - I thought "Communications" implied medias, TV, ads and that sort of stuff in french.”

    It’s not specified. But even if it does mean media, ads, TV, what does the government have to do with that? Should GlobalTV or The Gazette be abolished, even though they enjoy steady viewership/readership in Quebec? Now, that sounds a lot like trying to gut your political opponents.

    For your other points, see Troy’s and Tree Stamp responses.

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  91. Calgary Anon: "I understand that given the situation, I too would vote for legislation that guaranteed me the right to be served and to work in the language of the majority."

    So you want to legislate language... Now, I am even more convinced that you are a franco from Quebec who happens to live out west.

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  92. Calgary Anon in response to Tree Stump: "There's precious few corporations in Canada still owned by Canadians - we don't seem to be doing much better than the Quebeckers. Even Tim Hortons is owned by americans nowadays, and Zellers is about to close. "

    Now, this is one hell of a deflection from the Tree Stump's very simple point: "if you don't like it, don't shop there".

    Calgary Anon, you are a Quebecois schooled in the pequiste art of digression. Admit it.

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  93. "Now, this is one hell of a deflection from the Tree Stump's very simple point: "if you don't like it, don't shop there".

    Calgary Anon, you are a Quebecois schooled in the pequiste art of digression. Admit it."

    I was answering the comment about there not being any succesful quebecker business. Something about not throwing bricks in glass houses and all. The rest of his point wasn't particularly new, it had been said numerous times earlier in the thread.

    Now, I actually am not a Quebecker - but to argue the point too loudly would imply that the worth of what I say would be different if I was a Quebecker. I believe that it doesen't; so it doesen't really matter to me what you think. I'll admit to being a martian too if you want.

    Well schooled in the arts of pequiste disgression - well that's a new one. In any case, any particular disgression skills are self-taught.

    "So you want to legislate language... Now, I am even more convinced that you are a franco from Quebec who happens to live out west."

    If I lived in my own country and was unable to get service in the language of the majority? Sure I would. I'm not sure what's unreasonable about this - a bunch of european countries have similar laws for a similar reason. Like I said earlier, the Netherlands demand immigrants pass a test within 3 years of immigration. The method is different, the result is the same - make sure immigrants can speak the language of the majority no matter what they speak amongst themselves.

    "I wouldn’t. And you would? Now, I am almost convinced that you are a franco living in Alberta. That kind of mindset can only come from Quebec."

    I was speaking hypothetically; if I care enough about something to take my business elswhere, you can be sure I'll let the owner know about it. How else is he supposed to know why he's losing business?

    I keep hearing "do not shop there, do not shop there" but how will the owner know why I'm not shopping there? Prescience? This brings me back to an earlier point I made here - the author of the blog deplored the use of boycotts in order to get businesses to change things. Isn't a boycott exactly what you advise francophones to do, by not shopping in stores that do not serve them like they want?

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  94. "I agree that discrimination is bad, but you are allowed to discriminate if you’re the businessmen who invested HIS money, HIS time and HIS effort to create a venture. And unfortunately, through experiences people do tend to develop animosities. So if a Chinese businessman in Vancouver has a problem with white Anglos, he has to right not to hire them into HIS enterprise. And he has the right to make Mandarin the main language of operations, at his own risk or detriment. And if YOU don’t like it, then you don’t have to work there, or do business there, or shop there. But you don’t have the right to meddle in his internal operations."

    Unfortunately there is such a thing as discrimination laws. Now, it'll be hard to get someone to admit in court that he fired/didn't hire/didn't rent/refused you service on account of your race/religion/ethnic background/mother tongue/sexual orientation/gender, of course, but it remains illegal. I mean this in the strictest sense of the word - it's illegal, as a businessman, to treat people differently based on those things. The aside about discrimination is entirely different from the one about language, of course.

    "You’re in the realm of hypothetical again. But as the examples of Canada and the US illustrate, it’s not so easy to pass 101-like legislations there. They do tend to get thrown out as unconstitutional.
    And we can only guess what would happen if the situations were reversed. I, for one, do not believe that the “threatened minority” argument as the central reason here. I think it is a major cop out. I think the real motive behind laws such as bill 101 is French cultural arrogance that is well documented throughout history. And it is not an accident that the most comprehensive language legislations happen to exist in French-speaking countries (Quebec, France, Belgium, Switzerland)"

    Well, I can understand the theathened minority argument, at least on an intellectual level. Walk five miles in another man's shoes and all that.

    I'm not so sure about "French Cultural arrogance that is well documented throughout history" - that reeks of crass generalization to me. But then, any argument that boils down to "they're bad people because they've always been bad" is not very intellectually satisfying to me.

    "I’m not sure if you’re deflecting on purpose, or if you’re misunderstanding. We’re not talking here about employees unilingual in a language of a minority (non-English in Canada, or non-French in Quebec). We’re talking about a minority employer who puts out a job offer where the language of a minority (e.g. Mandarin) is required. Now, you seem to be in favor of a Quebec-style policy where the government steps in to mediate on behalf of the majority in order to have the business conform to that majority (i.e make the job available to members of the majority too). What I’m saying is that there should be no such policy, because it’s within the rights of a business to set the requirements. If the majority is left out of the business dealings, then it’s the business owner’s problem. Maybe the owner wants to cater to the minority ONLY and to totally bypass and ignore the majority. And it’s his right to do so, whether you like it or not."

    I'm not intentionally trying to deflect. Language of minority required - cool, totally behind that. I imagine I'm a recent immigrant, trying to start a business. It'll probably be a family business, where we all understand each other ; if we do hire out we'll take someone who can work well with the rest of us. Only makes sense.

    No employees at your store that can serve the general public? not so totally behind that. Not only would I have to hire people from my own language, I'd have to make no special effort that anyone of them speaks english. It's not only bad business, it's pretty calleous to a country that let you in as well.

    Sorry for answering these backwards.

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  95. ...to Anon @ November 28, 2011 5:59 PM

    Yes, Quebec's unemployment rate was 7.7% vs 8.1% in Ontario, but also take a look at the PARTICIPATION AND EMPLOYMENT rates, two important statistics you failed to note.

    . QUEBEC ONTARIO

    Participation rate 65% 66.7%
    Employment rate 60% 61.3%

    Source: http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/lfss01b-eng.htm

    Yes, Anon, your UNEMPLOYMENT rate is lower because the rate shows there are FEWER PARTICIPATING in the workforce, or looking for a job. That's PERCENTAGES of the population, not the actual size of the population. Ontario also has a higher rate of EMPLOYED than does Quebec.

    Is that because there are more students in Quebec not participating? No, Quebec has a much higher dropout rate than does Ontario. Look near the bottom of this portal link at the Appendix. It details the number of high school grads by age 24: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/81-004-x/2010004/article/11360-eng.htm

    More youth graduate sooner in Quebec vs Ontario by age 17 because Quebec most kids graduate by age 17 as Quebec has only 11 grades; Ontario has 12 so naturally kids will graduate after 17. The graduation by age 24, the last column, best compares apples to apples. Only in Quebec and Manitoba are the percentage of students still in school, but not yet graduated, exceed 2% with 3.4% and 2.2% respectively. Ontario is about half the rate of Quebec at 1.8%. By age 24, the "Not a high school graduate, not attending school" rate in Quebec is the highest at 11.2% vs 7.2% in Ontario. MB and SK are a little bit better than Quebec.

    You'd think with fewer graduates, these young people would be participating more in the workforce, but they're not.

    Nevertheless, there are more Quebeckers dependent on Welfare than are Ontarians? Why are there fewer participants in the workforce in Quebec when there are fewer high school graduates who should be seeking and finding work.

    ReplyDelete
  96. I'm entirely convinced now - a difference in employment of 1.3% yields clear moral superiority to Ontario.

    ReplyDelete
  97. Oh - for those who asked which other countries had laws that requires signeage to be in a specific language, I've only done a cursory search but I found Romania, Estonia and Algeria to do so. Small countries surrounded by more influent neighbours - those are the ones that would need it.

    The case of Algeria is different - it's an attempt by the government to decolonialize that entirely misfired. Hardly anyone in Algeria spoke french when they seperated, but in spite of the government pushing Arabic as sole public language today 70% of Algerians speak french. The parallel/contrast with Quebec is amusing.

    ReplyDelete
  98. “How else is he supposed to know why he's losing business?”

    By tallying up his income and noticing financial losses. No need to be patronized by clients. You don’t think that if the owner of a business started losing clients he wouldn’t figure things out? You think you have to spell it out for him/her?

    But that’s not what you’re worried about, is it? You’re not worried about a Chinese businessman in Montreal or Vancouver actually not being able to make it in Mandarin only, you’re worried about him being able to make it. You’re worried that he might not need French or English in your country to succeed. That’s why you want to ostentatiously slam the door in his face, and say: "sir, I’m leaving because of this and that…"



    “I keep hearing "do not shop there, do not shop there" but how will the owner know why I'm not shopping there? Prescience?”

    He’ll know because he’s not stupid, and he’ll know without your condescension and preaching. See my answer above.



    “This brings me back to an earlier point I made here - the author of the blog deplored the use of boycotts in order to get businesses to change things. Isn't a boycott exactly what you advise francophones to do, by not shopping in stores that do not serve them like they want?”

    I’m totally with you on this point, and against Editor. I think boycotting is a perfectly acceptable and the ONLY acceptable recourse in this case.



    “Now, it'll be hard to get someone to admit in court that he fired/didn't hire/didn't rent/refused you service on account of your race/religion/ethnic background/mother tongue/sexual orientation/gender, of course, but it remains illegal.”

    There you go. You admit yourself that such anti-discrimination laws are a bunch of un-enforceable regulations, and a totally hypocritical way of making the society look better than it really is.



    “No employees at your store that can serve the general public? not so totally behind that.”

    Why not? What is it to you? Are you afraid that you will have nowhere to shop? In which case, wouldn’t you be in the minority then, and have to adapt to the majority of Mandarin-speakers in Vancouver or English-speakers in Montreal?

    Why would you rather have the people adapt to you, and not you adapt to them? Because your language happens to be “official”? If that's it, then it's weak.

    ReplyDelete
  99. @Anon 7:43

    In fact I am romanian and I assure you that there is no such law. In fact, there are couple of cities that are official bilingual romanian/hungarian or even trilingual romanian/hungarian/russian. Also there are universities completely bilingual.

    Don't throw bogus information...

    ReplyDelete
  100. http://www.ad-astra.ro/posts/view_post.php?lang=ro&post_id=136

    It came out in 2004. You can google it under "Pruteanu's law" the name of the legislator who introduced it. All the headings google returns give "Romania bans the use of english in public".

    I'm given to understand that Romania recognises Romanian as an official langauge, and a number of regional minority langauges. I believe everything else but these has to go - in this case your billingual and trillingual universities shoudn't be affected.

    I would appreciate if you woudn't just call my information bogus - you're allowed to ask questions if you're skeptical.

    ReplyDelete
  101. It's hard to get much factual information on it - thanks to the internet, what I'm getting is the same generic article being reposted and reposted.

    I was, however, able to obtain this :

    "The version passed by the mediation commission says that any text written or spoken in a foreign language, regardless of its size, and which is of public interest, must be accompanied by a translation or adapted translation into Romanian."

    ReplyDelete
  102. Dude that's a law that suffered so many modifications since 04 ... believe me, i lived there. There is no language police, stores are named is anyway possible and in any language you desire, we were able to have Windows in english not in romanian ... there are international schools, so immigrants can enroll their kids wherever they want an so on...

    And speaking of Pruteanu (the initiator of the law) he was a bigot, a communist, a thief and a shit of a person in so many ways. Your Amir Khadir is a kid compared to Pruteanu :) ... but let's not talk about this guy anymore. RIP

    ReplyDelete
  103. "Do people in Markham express the difficulty to do their groceries because it's so difficult to find a store with english service? If not, you missed the point I was trying to make."

    People in Quebec have no problems being served in french, unless they go out of their way to find an anglophone/ethnic community on the island of Montreal somewhere. "Hey this tiny chinese dépanneur in Chinatown has employees who don't speak french, let's start a protest!"

    Have you noticed that all the recent language issues in the media are not about the language in which customers are served, but more about brand names, signage and advertisements? Why do you think that is?
    You said it yourself:
    "Such a place is an oddity, and not an inconvenience to the population ; they can go across the road to the Safeway or whatever."
    The same is true in this province.

    Anyways all these language issues only exist in the Montreal area. Outside of that, there's a whole province of french people, where the only threat to the french language is TVA and Musique Plus.

    "Sure. Does that mean that they never ever talk about it again?"

    It means we can stop wasting time and money while limiting the rights of our own citizens based on issues that are no longer relevant. The money spent by the OQLF on 26 new Language Police could be spent in much better places. Hell, it could even be spent on cultural programs to promote french.

    "Be careful of the pot calling the kettle black. There's precious few corporations in Canada still owned by Canadians - we don't seem to be doing much better than the Quebeckers."

    My point was that it's easy to complain, bitch and whine, instead of doing something yourself. Why can't separatists start their own chain of hardware stores called "Pneus Québécois", and all the people who are upset by the name "Canadian Tire" could shop there instead. Problem solved!

    Once again, it's my "if you don't like it, don't shop there" argument. Yes, it's been used a lot, but none of the language crazies has responded to it. Why is that?

    The truth is that they (crazy separatists) don't want businesses like Future Shop and Canadian Tire gone; they just want them to be handed over to lazy québécois for free.

    "Oh - for those who asked which other countries had laws that requires signeage to be in a specific language, I've only done a cursory search but I found Romania, Estonia and Algeria to do so."

    I hope you don't think that being compared to Romania, Estonia and Algeria are good things.. It says a great deal on what an independent Quebec would be like.

    ReplyDelete
  104. And my manager wes an expat from Sweden who knew only 2 words in romanian...so when we talk to him, we used english, and guess what! WE WERE HAPPY because we had the chance to practice our english. And we were not afraid that we would lose our romanian culture/heritage.

    So as much as crazy as it sounds, Romania is years ahead of Quebec regarding freedom of speech...in others no, but that another off topic discussion.

    So be smart, be open...anywhere in the world english is a must.

    For romanians it's easy here in Quebec, because we are a francophone country and we learn french and english since kindergarten...

    ReplyDelete
  105. "I hope you don't think that being compared to Romania, Estonia and Algeria are good things.. It says a great deal on what an independent Quebec would be like."

    Et à quoi ressemblerait le Québec sans aucune restriction linguistique?

    ReplyDelete
  106. Tree Stump - I've been arguing more on the conceptual level than the specifics ; I don't condone protesting in front of the one ethnic laundrymat with no french signage.

    But I don't see anything wrong with language legislation in general, because the majority should be able to expect signage and service they can understand when they live in their own country.

    Do people really complain about names like "Future Shop"? I must admit I've been thinking you were using that as a strawman.

    ReplyDelete
  107. "Romania is years ahead of Quebec regarding freedom of speech..."

    Est-ce-que la Roumanie est voisine d'une masse linguistique comportant 335 000 000 d'anglophones?

    ReplyDelete
  108. Anonymous 12:51AM: "“I keep hearing "do not shop there, do not shop there" but how will the owner know why I'm not shopping there? Prescience?”"

    Why do you assume that it's important for the owner to know why you no longer shop at his establishment? What are you that makes you so self-important?

    Sorry to burst your bubble of self-importance but you as an individual do not matter to any owner of a business. You would only matter if you could convince many other people to join you in the boycott. So go on and convince other people not to shop in stores like Future Shop until they modify their names. Until then, don't waste any owner's time telling them why you boycott him. He'll just kick you out of his establishment and barricade the door. It's you who will suffer more than them. You'd have to find a new place to get your electronic device or what not, while he will lose a very insignificant amount of money of what could have been a sale made to you.

    ReplyDelete
  109. If I was a shop owner, I'd rather people tell me what they didn't like about my service. It'd be my choice whether to give a shit or not, but at least I'd know.

    I'd just offer the same courtesy to a business I would no longer patronize.

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  110. "He'll just kick you out of his establishment and barricade the door. It's you who will suffer more than them.'

    Souffrir de ne pas pouvoir acheter le dernier ipad?Quelle mentalité pitoyable!

    ReplyDelete
  111. Anonymous 10:34am: "because the majority should be able to expect signage and service they can understand when they live in their own country. "

    I disagree with this. No majority should have such expectation, even in their own country. Personal liberty and private property/ownership should override any privilege of the majority. Individual rights over collective rights always.

    ReplyDelete
  112. When I used to work in McJobs, in my high school years, the owners did care about customer feedback. Some customers were just rude, or had unreasonable expectation, of course, but others had valid complaints. I never got the impression that the owners/managers would rather the customers take their business elsewhere without telling a soul.

    ReplyDelete
  113. "Est-ce-que la Roumanie est voisine d'une masse linguistique comportant 335 000 000 d'anglophones? "

    No...
    150 000 000 russians
    10 000 000 hungarians
    50 000 000 ukrainians
    ....
    sooooo, you think your are unique? do you still complain? Let me just remind you that Romania fought both World Wars...and we were constant occupied by turks, greeks, hyngarians, russians,...

    Do you think Quebec suffered? Do you consider yourself occupied by the english? What a stupid joke...

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  114. "I disagree with this. No majority should have such expectation, even in their own country. Personal liberty and private property/ownership should override any privilege of the majority. Individual rights over collective rights always."

    À droite tout le monde!Achevons cette planète le plus rapidement possible.

    Bravo les Harperiens!

    ReplyDelete
  115. Very principled of you, Anonymous 10:44. I'll just be cynical and continue believing that were the shoe on the other foot, and you were the one unable to understand signage in your own country, you'd sing a different tune.

    ReplyDelete
  116. "No...
    150 000 000 russians
    10 000 000 hungarians
    50 000 000 ukrainians"

    Wow!quelle menace comparativement à l'hégémonie américaine.À quand le monopole linguistique planétaire Hongrois?

    Quelle stupide comparaison!

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  117. "Et à quoi ressemblerait le Québec sans aucune restriction linguistique?"

    I think it would look very much like the Quebec we know today, with a bit more english in the area of Montreal. Immigration and ethnic communities would still have the same impact, and small regions outside Montreal wouldn't be anymore english than they are now. I also think the province would be in MUCH better financial shape.
    Of course this is just a guess, I could be wrong, but we'll never know.

    "But I don't see anything wrong with language legislation in general, because the majority should be able to expect signage and service they can understand when they live in their own country."

    Once again, there's no issue with being served in french in this province. Would it even make sense for a group to not cater to the majority?
    And if you want to talk about signage, Quebec has entirely french road signs. Not bilingual, french only. According to your comments, shouldn't english Canadians be able to come here and expect signage they can understand? It's not an issue, but I just want to show you that what you said should work both ways, but it doesn't.

    "Do people really complain about names like "Future Shop"? I must admit I've been thinking you were using that as a strawman."

    Yes, yes they do. Worse than that, some people have complained about the name "Canadian Tire" (a Canadian institution) recently. And this is where the problem is. I'm sure nobody has anything against protecting the language and culture, but it's no longer about that.

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  118. "Wow!quelle menace comparativement à l'hégémonie américaine.À quand le monopole linguistique planétaire Hongrois?"

    You are stupid by definition. The hungarians had a freaking empire in Europe...i don'r expect you to even know where Europe is.

    Let's stop this now...you waste my time. I'll return to my work, and you to your couch potato occupation.

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  119. Anonymous 10:41am : "If I was a shop owner, I'd rather people tell me what they didn't like about my service."

    Not if it's nit picking about stuff that is none of their concern like the name of the business, or the internal language of correspondence...A business is there to serve the clientele, but it is also a proprietary venture that must stand its ground against outside pressures.

    And there is a difference between a legitimate client's grievance, and a grievance of some brainwashed seppie frustrate locked in the 1950's anti-English mindset who complains that American chains present in Quebec refuse to rename.

    I'll give you a concrete example of a seppie frustrate. A friend of mine knows good English and basic French and is employed in in one of the big clothing stores downtown Montreal. She usually works in the back, but one day she was up front taking care of something and got asked a question in French. Not understanding fully, she said "excuse me" and returned not a minute later with a French speaking employee. The frustrated seppie still filed a complaint.

    Example 2: at one of Tim Horton's downtown, an Indian guy serving coffee (in French and English, depending no the customer) told me that their manager receives complaints daily by email from frustrates who complain about things like: "I was greeted with a 'hello', instead of 'bonjour'" or "'to each other they speak English not French")

    ReplyDelete
  120. "The hungarians had a freaking empire in Europe"

    The key word here is "had".

    A long time ago.

    ReplyDelete
  121. "Let's stop this now...you waste my time. I'll return to my work, and you to your couch potato occupation."

    Évidemment...

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  122. Well, I think it's retarded to complain about Canadian Tire and Future Shop, seriously. But from there to compare them to Nazis as per the blog post... there's a jump, yes?

    As to road signage - I'm kind of ambivalent. I see your point and I can kind of see it both ways. Certainly it would be courteous of them to have billingual signs even if it were not mandatory.

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  123. "The key word here is "had".
    A long time ago. "

    Also Quebec used to mean something in Canada..."used".
    A long time ago.

    Now, it's just a broke province in Canada and will be broke w/o Canada.
    Basically Quebec is condemned to be broke forever !

    The key word is "forever"

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  124. "Once again, there's no issue with being served in french in this province." - Today. There used to be, and it's only through the (kind of overkill) legislation that it changed, yes? I can respect that. And if they want to keep it that way, they have to keep said legislation, no?

    That said there's things I don't agree with - having french prominent, or first, or stuff like that. It sounds like the Anglo society of New-Brunswick, they complain about that kind of stuff all the time even when the sign has french first for gramatical reason. To appease them they have to make a new sign with english on top and twice as many words... urgh.

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  125. Calgary Anon: "I'll just be cynical and continue believing that were the shoe on the other foot, and you were the one unable to understand signage in your own country, you'd sing a different tune. "

    I would need the cultural arrogance of the seppies to do sing such a tune. The "shoe on the other foot" or "put yourself in their position" doesn't tell the whole story here.

    What is their position anyways? A political majority in Quebec, language laws on their side for over 30 years, service available in French anywhere in Quebec, Canada blackmailed into sending 8 billion dollars a year Quebec's way and making French official in the entire non-francophone country...Yet they still moan about their language...leading one to believe that it has less to do with cultural apprehension, and more to do with cultural arrogance.

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  126. "Now, it's just a broke province in Canada and will be broke w/o Canada.'

    Alors pourquoi tant d'immigrants se retouvent à nos portes et pleurent à genoux pour entrer chez-nous?Faudrait peut-être les prévenir et leur conseiller le ROC comme étant le paradis sur terre.Non?

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  127. "Yet they still moan about their language...leading one to believe that it has less to do with cultural apprehension, and more to do with cultural arrogance."

    Parlant arrogance...Je vous signale que nous représentons un des deux peuples fondateurs du pays qu'est le Canada.

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  128. "The hungarians had a freaking empire in Europe"

    Bon!Nous avons des Hungryphones maintenant?MDR!

    ReplyDelete
  129. "Je vous signale que nous représentons un des deux peuples fondateurs"

    Nothing to be proud of, given that this country was founded as a result of colonization. And that fact alone certainly doesn't excuse your annoying behavior today.

    New York was founded by the Dutch as New Amsterdam, and today there is no Dutch spoken there, and you see no Dutch people running around demanding to be spoken in Dutch. The point being that just because something happened hundreds of years ago does not mean that it will have any bearing on the present. Sometimes it will, sometimes it won't.

    So the presence of the French language in Quebec and Canada is also nothing carved in stone. From the point of view of long-term history, it may be passing and transient, like everything else.

    Also, to correct your historical inaccuracy - Canada was founded by the British with Canadian Francos and Anglos as stooges and passive observers. The French rule had been removed and sent back to France, so the French did not found Canada. The British did. So you, as a faithful adherent to history, should sing God Save the Queen for us.

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  130. @Anon 11:32

    "Alors pourquoi tant d'immigrants se retouvent à nos portes et pleurent à genoux pour entrer chez-nous?Faudrait peut-être les prévenir et leur conseiller le ROC comme étant le paradis sur terre.Non? "

    It's so simple, it hurts !

    Because the emigration process is taking less than 2 years for Quebec and up to 5 years for ROC. So you can see Quebec, and Montreal in 99% or the cases, as a door to ROC.

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  131. And again for Anon 11:32 ...

    So you see my friend, Quebec is part of Canada. Applying for Quebec is much easier and it takes less time. After the process you get yourself a visa for Canada and not just only Quebec.

    So you short circuit the entire process. You apply for Quebec, but you land in Toronto, Vancouver or Calgary let's say.

    See how simple it is?

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  132. "Bon!Nous avons des Hungryphones maintenant?MDR! "

    you are sick. it was about history...

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  133. "...should sing God Save the Queen for us."

    Quoi?

    God shave the queen?

    Et vous parlez de vivre dans le passé?MDR!Hahahahahahaha!

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  134. French colonialists are so passé.

    ReplyDelete
  135. "See how simple it is?"

    Admettez qu'il en reste un moyen paquet chez-nous...Et pas toujours les meilleurs :)

    ReplyDelete
  136. "The French rule had been removed and sent back to France, so the French did not found Canada"

    Vous devez fréquenter les bibliothèques anglaises,n'est-ce-pas?

    L'anglais n'est pas coulé dans le béton non plus,surtout au canada...Attention aux Chinois les anglouilles!

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  137. "Et vous parlez de vivre dans le passé?"

    No, you are, mon ami "fondateur".

    I'm telling you to be careful going back that way. You may not like where you end up.

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  138. Deux nationes fondateurs. Yeah right. Wasn't that was decided on the Plains of Abrahams. Why do we have to listen to this crock of BS and worse yet subscribe to it by pandering to the french element in Canada. The true founding nations were here well before both the French and the British. The two founding nation concept is a total illusion of reality.

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  139. Ce que je veux dire est que nous étions là les premiers.Donc le Canada c'est nous et les anglos nous l'ont volé.Tellement simple que ça fait mal.

    Les indiens n'ont rien à voir dans cette histoire,ils ont suivi,c'est tout.

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  140. Welcome to Salem, Quebec!
    http://www2.lactualite.com/jean-francois-lisee/les-unilingues-existent-les-internautes-les-ont-rencontres/11083/?cp=1#comments
    Ed. this article may be material for your next blog post.

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  141. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
  142. "I hope you don't think that being compared to Romania, Estonia and Algeria are good things.. It says a great deal on what an independent Quebec would be like."

    "Et à quoi ressemblerait le Québec sans aucune restriction linguistique?"

    It might still be the economic engine of Canada, before the Quebec nationalists destroyed it.

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  143. @Apparatchick

    Dois-je ajouter "sarcasme" à mon humour grossier?Moi qui croyait que c'était évident.
    Que voulez-vous répondre à un anglo qui refuse d'admettre que les Français ont été l'un des deux peuples fondateurs?Aucun argument le convaincra...Croyez-moi.

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  144. "Je ne crois pas que les gars de la MPQ apprécieraient ce genre d'humour.Ils ne semblemt pas avoir le sens de l'humour si vous voulez mon avis."

    The French certainly do not have much of a reputation as fighters. The Quebec Patriotic Militia are a bunch of pansies. The Canadian Army would make quick work of them in any conflict. The Girl Scouts could defeat the MPQ.

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  145. The "Anonymous from Calgary" may not be from Quebec, but I suspect he is a Francophone.

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  146. The Canadian Army...PPPfffhhooouuaaaaa!!!

    Oups!Désolé...

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  147. The (English) Canadians had a great reputation as fighters in both world wars in the 20th century. The Germans always sent their best troops to oppose the Canadian regiments in combat.

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  148. To Apparatchik @5:20
    RE: "This post has been removed by a blog administrator."
    As the editor of this blog and the sole administrator, I can assure you I did not remove your comment.
    How it was pulled concerns me. I hope it was an error and not a hacker.
    Please repost!

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  149. "The Germans always sent their best troops to oppose the Canadian regiments in combat."

    Au sol peut-être (ou à cheval).Les "canadians" ont plutôt la réputation d'être incapables de maintenir un hélico (ou tout autre objet volant) dans les airs et croyez-le ou non ces imbéciles peuvent faire couler ...Un sous-marin!

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  150. "It might still be the economic engine of Canada, before the Quebec nationalists destroyed it."

    Wow!Je ne savais pas que nous étions aussi puissants.J'me sens bien tout à coup!

    Merci m'sieur!

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  151. "Les "canadians" ont plutôt la réputation d'être incapables de maintenir un hélico (ou tout autre objet volant) dans les airs..."

    The Canadian Army is considered to be one of "the best little armies in the world." However, the military is cash-strapped and this has impacted its ability to purchase and maintain good equipment. If the 8.5 billion dollars in annual transfer payments to Quebec were diverted to the military, it could acquire superior equipment.

    "Wow!Je ne savais pas que nous étions aussi puissants.J'me sens bien tout à coup!"

    It was the Anglos and Allophones in Quebec who were primarily responsible for its economic clout in the past...not the Quebecois.

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  152. "...it could acquire superior equipment."

    L'équipement n'est pas le problème.Il faudrait que vous engagiez du personnel américain.

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  153. "the best little armies in the world."
    "Le plusss beau grand pays du monde"

    Plus complexés que ça les canayens et tu meurs.

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  154. @ Anon. aka Press 9 at 7:51 PM,

    You can continue to make stupid statements about the Canadian military, but the fact is that they would absolutely slaughter the Quebec Patriotic Militia.

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  155. Quebec militia or future army would loose to the Mohawk militia. They couldn't even handle OKA without the Canadian army.

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  156. "Que voulez-vous répondre à un anglo qui refuse d'admettre que les Français ont été l'un des deux peuples fondateurs?Aucun argument le convaincra...Croyez-moi"

    Simple as the Plains of Abraham...pas des fondateurs...vous oubliez de ce fait ou qu'on le anglais batter les francais et gagne le guerre. Encore, apres le fait, vous croyez vous peut etre des fondateurs. Vous sont les "losers" et votre logique est plus fous. Ce la meme chose aujourd'hui. Assez dits avec votre faiblesse mots.

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  157. I thought Canada was founded in 1867, not 1760.

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  158. "I thought Canada was founded in 1867, not 1760"

    Moi aussi :)

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  159. "...but the fact is that they would absolutely slaughter the Quebec Patriotic Militia."

    l'intervention de l'"armée" canadienne en Afghanistan ne m'a pas beaucoup impressionné.
    Je crois que la MPQ aurait toutes les chances de vous aplatir.

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  160. @anon 10:01

    Does it really matter if an ignorant like yourself has no clues about military matters? Of course you aren't impressed. Just like alot of Seppies on Welfare in Quebec that don't got to work but have time to go on protests because they don't have to worry about making a living to pay the bills. Its not like they would volunteer for anything anyway.

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  161. "Just like alot of Seppies..."

    Pas juste pour nous...Pour tout le monde :)))

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  162. to anonymous nov 30 2011 1:25Pm...

    would you please get your scruffy hairy seppie ass off your computer chair and go find a job...you sound like a 40 year old who spoils his entire life and time over the internet, spewing garbage about anglophones and allophones, and who likely still lives under his Parents roof...I mean do you have an actual life???education???friends???? or a girlfriend(which I highly doubt you do)? seems to me you have NONE of the above, since you dedicate your meaningless life messing around on this blog
    for whatever reason...you know, there is a world outside of your little shabby appartement in hochelaga-maisnoneuve...how about you start socializing with actual Humans and make friends...

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  163. I mean do you have an actual life??? : No

    education??? : No

    friends???? : No

    girlfriend? : No more

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  164. This past Saturday I did the rounds of the big box stores to purchase a new lawn-mower. I an a native Montrealer who lives on the West Island in an exclusive high end neighborhood and am completely 100% bilingual. I work in French and English and being bilingual is a source of pride to me and my family.

    Home Depot at Hymus and St. John's, in the heart of anglo Montreal/West Island was our second stop. After proceeding to the lawn -mower display - I was most turned off, the word I used was 'utterly disgusted' at the completely unilingual French descriptions of the features of each lawn mower and the complete disrespect this shows for your anglophone clients. While bilingual, a one time, very infrequent purchase of a lawn mower is best done in one's mother tongue to best understand what one is purchasing. While one or two of the mowers had the manufacturers bilingual label on the handle others did not, and those that did were deficient. Additionally when these labels did exist their placement made side by side comparison shopping very tedious.


    Bill 101 allows, as your competitors illustrate bilingual indoor signs. Walking around Home Depot one would never know this. I am utterly amazed at how Home Depot would allow this to happen. While discrimination against minorities has long been banished from civilized societies and accommodation encouraged, at Home Depot this discrimination against a large portion of the population is rigorously pursued. While you reserve the right to your English name to be plastered everywhere, you zeal for the English language seems to stop where your Anglo customers rights begin.

    While fairly apolitical I am totally disgusted and sickened by what I saw at your store in Pointe Claire on Saturday. I have no interest whatsoever in patronizing your chain until this deplorable situation is addressed. In the end I spent my $550 at a local Canadian Tire where I was treated with respect and decency. The owner of that store could only shake his head and chuckle. Upon hearing this my inner circle of friends made their treks to Home Depot Pointe Claire and expressed their amazement. One particularly irreverent friend's remark was ' why don't they just put out a sign on the front door - 'no dogs or Anglos allowed'

    Puckstopper

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