“Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.” -Oscar Wilde.
Germany and all Europe have already got over "Der Führer und seine Eroberungslust", so nothing new under the sun.It's time to break the taboo about Hitler...WESTALLOPHONE++ (9/11)
I’ll take Hitler any day over the scum bag language Nazis bigots that have run Kebec over the last 5 decades. Rot in hell scum bags, rot in hell.
Now we await the firestorm from the usual group of Lamentata.Well done, Ed.!
That was hilarious!
Saviez-vous que les sous-titres ne correspondent pas aux textes du personnage?
The true colours of Quebec nationalists
@Anon at 2:59No shit ! We're all so happy you enlighten us ! I was pretty sure it was true, but now, after you told us ... neah, sure is fake ! :) :) :) Also fyi, Darth Vader does not exist and also Elf are not living in Ireland. And Matrix was not a documentary :)Peace brother!As for Editor, not original but still a good lough .Nice week everybody.
"No shit ! We're all so happy you enlighten us !"Ein Brett vor dem Kopf haben!
You first ! Hey, learn to understand a joke ... it's not so hard.Peace again bro
It's almost 1 year and one month since I arrived in Montreal ( from a latin/francophone country in Europe, not France, Italy or Spain ... ). I didn't know shit about all this nonsense in Quebec about separatism. All i knew was that french is spoken here...No problem, because we learn french and english from the second grade, so basically i didn't need a francisation course. Nor me or my wife. So we found jobs, after 2 months of arriving. Good jobs. It took us 4 months to accommodate this great society and this great city.I speak only english at my job, my wife only french. We use french when we need , but most of the time english. I really don't understand why this stupid measures about everything regarding language problems and independence. You people ( the seppies , as you called them ) don't understand the benefit of knowing more than one language and the huge benefits of having an open society ... You should be thankful you have the chance of perfecting more than one language. Your advantage will be unmeasurable in the job market. Instead you choose to follow a lost dream ... you don't even think for one second what a setup for a new country really means. You dream about the moment but you are not ready. Do you really think that everything will start to be white/blue for us if someday we will separate?Think about all the money that we will have to pay for diplomatic missions, embassies, new programs for socially assisted, pensions, new laws, army , and the whole range of services that we need to really administrate ourselves ...Do you think that language and "culture" will keep us warm and will feed us?Do you really think that big companies will choose to stay and deal with new economic Brownian movement? They will leave and come when everything will settle down. Do you think it is wise to wait until then ?Be aware that if you choose something like that, is a one way street. You will fail, and it will be big. And Canada will not support you. They will leave you to suffer while playing the spoons. For us, immigrants, it will be easy ... we have chosen a country 8000 km away so a few more hundreds will not be a problem. The anglos will leave too ... Do you really think that this is all that you need?We should all pay attention to infrastructure, health and education instead of unreal dreams.If Quebec will manage to succeed in this 3 areas and be the most profitable province in Canada, well, that's the real success story.
"We use french when we need , but most of the time english."Vous répondez vous-même a vos interrogations sur les raisons de nos ambitions collectives d'autonomie.Lorsque nous serons tous bilingues dans un contexte Nord américain presque exclusivement anglophone,qu'arrivera-t-il de notre langue maternelle?Vous connaissez certainement la Louisianne.Nous ne sommes pas en Europe mais en amérique du Nord.La pression exercée par l'uniformisation sur les langues autres que l'anglais n'a rien a voir avec la tour de Babel Européenne.Il va sans dire que vos connaissances historiques de notre Nation semblent assez limitées.Bienvenue au Québec!
yeah Press 9 ... as long as this is a free and democratic country, and still bilingual, there is nothing wrong using french and english, as we please, here in Mtl. Everybody should be free to choose !
Anonymous said..."No shit ! We're all so happy you enlighten us !"Ein Brett vor dem Kopf haben!September 11, 2011 6:54 PMGood expression, but I prefer "Matsch in der Birne haben", basically, Press9's condition...WESTALLOPHONE++
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@Anonyme 7h38"You people ( the seppies , as you called them ) don't understand the benefit of knowing more than one language and the huge benefits of having an open society ... You should be thankful you have the chance of perfecting more than one language. Your advantage will be unmeasurable in the job market."Quebec (which includes separatists) is the most bilingual society in Canada. A great majority of young quebecers I know (franco, anglo, allo, federalist, separatist alike) master at least two languages and very often a third one. I'm sorry, but out of this few lines all I see is a complete ignorance of the Quebec independance movement. May I suggest reading any book on the question be it by Lévesque, Bourgault or the likes."And Canada will not support you."We are seeking separation from Canada. It is our goal to "lose support from Canada" as you put it."We should all pay attention to infrastructure, health and education instead of unreal dreams."You see, I'd personnaly rephrase your sentence the following way: "We should pay attention to infrastucture, health and education while pursuing our dreams as a society".
I should have said in my previous post "Quebec is the province where you find the highest proportion of English-French bilinguism (http://tinyurl.com/6h9kwov).
@ Le sécessioniste"We should pay attention to infrastucture, health and education while pursuing our dreams as a society"Please be my guest ! You will need all the luck in the world, 'coz you'll break your neck by following this unreal dream. Sincerely, if you think this will happen, you're really out of this world or just a masochist. As I see the situation now, with everybody fighting this stupid language war, and billions spend on stuff like OQLF, the infrastructure & other stuff will degrade more. We already have the worse roads in NA ... As for OQLF, my opinion: when you have millions to spend, and you stay on your lardass days and days and days w/o doing nothing it is logical that your mind goes crazy and you think that changing Best Buy or Futureshop to french it will help the preservation of language...Oh my God, it's so hilarious. As for you guys, you better think about the amount of money that the "new gov" will impose on you once you'll have your country BEFORE "pursue" your dreams about independence.You're all just spoiled kids with no sense of reality.
“A great majority of young quebecers I know (franco, anglo, allo, federalist, separatist alike) master at least two languages and very often a third one.”I’ve heard this canard so many times before. Seppies are very conniving indeed. The way they take credit for something (bilingualism and trilingualism) that happens without any of their help, and even with their opposition to it (i.e. it happens not thanks to them, but despite them). How they try to turn our focus to the glass half full (so many francos learn English), and distract us from the glass half empty (given demographics of North America, why is it that only 40% of francos know English, and many of them poorly? As Peter Scowen pointed out, in the vast area that is North America, only a handful of people don’t know English, and most of these live in Quebec).“It is our goal to "lose support from Canada" as you put it.”Your goal is to have a cake and eat it too. I.e. to be independent from Canada, yet to continue to use it as an ATM.If it was just secession with no strings attached that you were seeking, this thing would have been over a long time ago.“May I suggest reading any book on the question be it by Lévesque, Bourgault or the likes.”Essentially, propagandists (Bourgault) and people of power (Lévesque) who tried to intellectualize and philosophize something that is all about money, prestige, power, and greed, and nothing more.All one needs to do is to read the blog of JF Lisee to get the gist of it.--------“It's almost 1 year and one month since I arrived in Montreal”Welcome to Montreal. Advice number one – never trust the seppies. They lie.
Jews aren't still being persecuted by germans; english people in Quebec are."You people ( the seppies , as you called them ) don't understand the benefit of knowing more than one language and the huge benefits of having an open society ... You should be thankful you have the chance of perfecting more than one language"The french separatists are people with very little education and culture, and they want to receive as much as possible by doing as little as possible (it's why BS and unions are so big here). People with more education or culture obviously threaten them and their lazy way of life."For us, immigrants, it will be easy ... we have chosen a country 8000 km away so a few more hundreds will not be a problem. The anglos will leave too"That's exactly what they want, and they have no problem admitting it in public (see Jacques Parizeau), so that's not really a threat to them, just fyi."As I see the situation now, with everybody fighting this stupid language war, and billions spend on stuff like OQLF, the infrastructure & other stuff will degrade more. We already have the worse roads in NA ... "The separatists don't care, you don't need roads to work on a farm or collect a BS check. And anyways, it's very simple. Just do nothing and invest 0$ (because all your money is tied up in language laws and referendums), and then just blame the other party once you're not in power anymore. Don't you love seeing the current PQ complain about our roads, healthcare system, or education system?I'm really starting to hope separation happens.. Just so I can move out of this province and watch all these morons suffer.
"Just so I can move out of this province and watch all these morons suffer."J'espère seulement que vous avez une famille nombreuse...mais comme les angryphones ne font que se lamenter,vous serez encore ici :( dans dix ans a répèter les mêmes propos racistes issus d'une autres époque.Pauvres petits angryphones...La minorité la plus choyée de la planète.
"J'espère seulement que vous avez une famille nombreuse...mais comme les angryphones ne font que se lamenter,vous serez encore ici :( dans dix ans a répèter les mêmes propos racistes issus d'une autres époque."Hahaha, thanks for the laugh this morning.A separatist accusing others of racism and being stuck in the past.. Good one!I can actually communicate with most of the rest of the world, while you're worried about the rest of the world taking you over..Go back to vigile.net, your little racist friends will probably agree with you there.
It took us less than a year to fully understand (yes, it's not such a big problem) the Quebec situation. For the fully matured population, the language issue and the separation are their last preoccupation.They choose to work, to do business and so on in their preferred language ( both most of the time ) and they will continue to do so even if Futureshop will be called Le Magasin du Futur.They choose to follow a dream that can be accomplished !@adski"Welcome to Montreal. Advice number one – never trust the seppies. They lie. "Thanks man. Montreal is awesome, Quebec is such a beautiful province ( i've seen quite a lot of it ). Canada is great country for sure. The BIGGEST resource and wealth of Canada are it's people and it would be such a shame if Quebec will ever separate.
"Pauvres petits angryphones...La minorité la plus choyée de la planète. "Well honestly speaking, it's you who think you are "la minorité la plus choyée de la planète" because you act like one ! Again, the reality is this one: you're still a part of Canada, english is the most spoken language IN CANADA, so YOU are a minority ! And judging your behavior I really think you are the most PAMPERED people in Canada !
Anonymous, I've been in your situation 20 years ago, arriving here in my early teens from Europe and not fully understanding this place. As a second advice, I would advise you not to be deluded that the more you understand the seppies (nationalistic Quebeckers), the more you'll like them (i.e. if you feel that your initial dislike of them is a result of you not understanding them). In fact, the opposite will happen - the more you understand them, the more you'll dislike them. You'll realize that behind the platitudes about "social justice", "linguistic diversity", "social cohesion", "promotion of culture" lie much more nefarious forces, like petty jealousy, greed, lust for power, and and a weird combination of personal insecurity and ethno-narcissism.----In my earlier post, I meant to refer to Reed Scowen, not Peter Scowen (who is Reed Scowen's son).
"I can actually communicate with most of the rest of the world"Wow!Je suis vraiment impressionné.Que faites-vous donc sur ce blogue?Je suis certain que le reste du monde n'attend que vos précieux conseils pour continuer a évoluer.
"Well honestly speaking..."Cela doit exiger des efforts surhumain de votre part :)
@adskiSi votre gourou est Scowen et que son mépris du Québec vous inspire tant,je vous propose de remettre sur pieds "alliance Québec".Avec le retour (cyclique) des angryphones,vous devriez être en mesure de faire sortir quelques chemises brunes des greniers poussiéreux de l'Ouest de Montréal.Cependant,prévoyez des espaces pour ranger les marchettes et les triporteurs dans vos futurs locaux.Allez adski!Ayez le courage de vos convictions.
"Wow!Je suis vraiment impressionné.Que faites-vous donc sur ce blogue?Je suis certain que le reste du monde n'attend que vos précieux conseils pour continuer a évoluer."Ah oui, une réponse typique d'un québécois frustré. Ne me blâmez pas pour votre faible niveau d'éducation, blâmez plutôt vos parents racistes et les gouvernements qui vous ont fait croire que s'instruire, c'est mauvais.
Vous êtes probablement un génie (c'est évident) mais coté savoir vivre,il vous reste du chemin a parcourir :)Est-ce vos parents anglos qui vous ont appris a chier sur les Québécois?Quoi?Vous me dites que c'est inné?Pauvre malheureux...
"Canada is great country for sure."Before saying Canada is a great country we must put things in perspective. Because there is a hierarchy in the anglo-saxon world. On the top there are United Kingdom and United States. At the bottom of hierarchy there are Australia, New Zealand and English-canada.Even though Australians are a nation of descendants of prisoners they are greater than English-canadians because they are a unique nation. On the contrary, given the fact that English-canadians are a pale copy of another nation (mainly because Americans and English-canadians have the same language and the same mass culture) English-canada can not be a great country. It's impossible and logical.
@ AnonymousIt seems like the main argument you are defending is that the idea of independance is unrealistic. May I suggest that most dreams people have been defending troughtout history were unreal at some point. Do you stop defending an idea only because it is unreal for other people?40% of Quebecers are separatists. How is aiming to convince 10% of the 60% left unrealistic? Out of this world? Masochists? And what if we were 40% of masochists? Ah and welcome to Montreal. Always great to see people coming from abroad and choosing to live in my beloved city. And participating in the public debate after beeing here for such a short period of time. You seem adapting pretty well!Cheers
@ anon 11:00 Am & Press 9I have only pity for you. Just pity ... i think it's terrible for you guys to be like Don Quixote.@ adski I don't want to like them. It's nothing to like. I will enjoy more and more the growth of bilingualism in Montreal area and the fact that separatists will dig their own grave with all this stupid measures.As for OQLF, seppies & co: J. Charest noticed that the amounts allocated to francisation grew and that's a good sign. Let me tell you ( Press 9, il ya quelque chose de nouveau pour vous !! ) that immigrants are attending the courses for money !!!! THAT'S IT. MONEY. They receive money, but they will use english as their second language and french as third.I have friends who are telling me that after 9 months ( full francisation module ) they are not able to speak french in a way that would serve them ! So basically the Q gouv. are wasting huge amounts of money for nothing. ( ~ 460 * 9 = 4190 CAD/ person only to learn nothing ) Instead of changing store names, maybe they must analyze why after 9 months of school ( 6 h/day ) people find the course almost useless. And a small exercise for Press 9: you have a country ! what are the first measures for a 10 year plan of sustaining economy and infrastructure ? NM ( new montrealer :D )
@ anon 12:23"Ah and welcome to Montreal. Always great to see people coming from abroad and choosing to live in my beloved city. And participating in the public debate after beeing here for such a short period of time. You seem adapting pretty well!"I'm adapting because this is my new home. It's in my best interest to defend my new home from things that would harm it, ex: separatism. Because nothing good for me and my family will happen. The goal for a nation as ours ( if you allow me to say so, even i have been here for just a year ) is to be united, to have equilibrium and stability. Look at the world as it is now : crisis, wars, the most alarming food crisis that knocks on our door, the pollution, the diseases that are multiplying faster than our ability to find cures, oil crisis and this can go on ... It's so obvious that Quebec and YOU, together with ROC should remain united to counteract all of the above. I perfectly understand the desire for preserving your values, but you are doing this in a totally wrong way: by imposing laws that would make the Gestapo proud ! You should all see beyond your personal ambitions regarding nationalism, and think outside the box : will Quebec be able to survive in a world that heads to something bad ( and we ALL see this ) ? I think not, and Quebec needs ROC as ROC needs Quebec , for many years to come !NM
Too bad Jacques Parizeau wasn't available to do the voice-overs for André Hitleur.
“On the contrary, given the fact that English-canadians are a pale copy of another nation (mainly because Americans and English-canadians have the same language and the same mass culture) English-canada can not be a great country. It's impossible and logical.”More of the same seppie canard. Why is being like someone else (the US for example) and being great irreconcilable? I’m not saying that the US is great, I’m just talking about the logic of it. It seems that the “logic” here is that if country X is very similar to country Y, country Y cannot by definition be great. Pure nonsense.As for the similarities of the ROC with the US – correct, same culture and same language. The differences are made up and blown out of proportion for political reasons (the social democratic aspect of Canada, Canadians being more open and warm than Americans…as if…). The truth is that Canada is very similar to the US and very importantly, it must stop denying it and feeling threatened by this fact. The insecurity towards Americans causes Canada to frantically embrace Quebec (because the “French fact” differentiates us from the Americans), which is not so bad in theory, but in practice it is something skillfully exploited by Quebec for its own ends (mainly for $$$).Canada must start distancing itself from Quebec, and accept reality.------------“40% of Quebecers are separatists.”40% might be associationists-souverenists. Tell them about the real consequences of separation, and the 40% melts like an ice cube.Quebeckers at this point are as spoilt as all North Americans, a consumerist and materialistic society, bought by major corporations. Quebeckers, in all their vanity, love their houses, SUVs, plasma TVs, swimming pools, and an occasional Ethnic that defers to them and strokes their ego (in fact, many Quebeckers are upset that so many Ethnics are totally oblivious to the self-proclaimed “maitres” and choose English instead). Do as much as suggest to Quebekcers that they might have to tighten their belts, and their "idealism" goes down the drain.Once again, with 80% of this province Francophone, if Francophones really wanted it, it would have happened already, with a clear question and a clear majority. And there would have been no need for essay-like referendum questions, vote rigging, and misinformation (e.g. that QB dairy farmers would continue be allowed to dump their products in the ON market with no restrictions).To reiterate, this 40% no longer scares anyone, not in Quebec, and not in the ROC. So you need to find a new scare tactic.------“May I suggest that most dreams people have been defending troughtout history were unreal at some point”Dreams? Here you go again, romanticizing and dramatizing something that is no more that a desire of ethno-narcissists for recognition and reverence. A purely vanity-driven desire, sold as something noble and righteous. Please.If you want reverence, work for it. I suggest trying to win a war next time around.
@Press9:"Vous êtes probablement un génie (c'est évident) mais coté savoir vivre,il vous reste du chemin a parcourir :)Est-ce vos parents anglos qui vous ont appris a chier sur les Québécois?Quoi?Vous me dites que c'est inné?Pauvre malheureux... "Mes parents sont deux québécois francophones. Oui, des québécois de souche. Je le suis aussi, et oui ma langue maternelle est le français.Je ne partage évidemment pas votre haine envers les gens de différentes races et cultures, donc je ne suis surement pas un "québécois de souche", selon votre définition.
"I don't want to like them. It's nothing to like. "I'm glad you're not deluded as I was once upon a time.By working with an assumption that there is nothing special about QC, about the En-Fr relationship and that there is no contribution by Quebec to the rest of the country, you're working with the right assumption. The ROC-QC relationship is exploitative and parasitic, not symbiotic, and Canada is not a normal country because of Quebec, not despite of it. You'll save yourself a lot of time and energy by not trying to prove to yourself that maybe you're the problem because you haven't done enough to reach out. Reaching out and concessions do nothing but lead to more demands and more concessions. We're dealing with an insatiable beast here.
"Je ne partage évidemment pas votre haine envers les gens de différentes races et cultures..."Vous détestez seulement les Québécois si je comprend bien XD.Je crois comprendre que vous ne saisissez pas la nuance entre langues et cultures,n'est-ce pas?Je ne connais pas votre niveau d'éducation mais je crois que vous devriez vous informer avant d'interragir sur les blogues traitant des questions linguistiques."Mes parents sont deux québécois francophones" Non?...Vous êtes rapide a part ça!Comme si ce n'était pas évident.XD
"...that immigrants are attending the courses for money !!!! THAT'S IT. MONEY."WOW!Quelle nouvelle!Hahahahahahahaha!Connaissez vous beaucoup d'anglos qui ne font pas de pirouettes pour de l'argent?Hahahahahaha!Nous connaissons notre clientèle.Le problème est que c'est les canadiens qui se retrouvent avec les factures.
"Canada must start distancing itself from Quebec, and accept reality..."...Et devenir totalement américain.
@ anon 3:14"Nous connaissons notre clientèle." Like your fellow Parizeau, it appears that you have the same issues with immigrants :)Coming from you, la clientèle , sounds so ... mean !NM
"Je crois comprendre que vous ne saisissez pas la nuance entre langues et cultures,n'est-ce pas?"Très amusant comme commentaire, surtout considérant que les séparatistes utilisent "la protection de notre culture" comme premier argument pour justifier les lois sur la langue. Comme si la culture québécoise est basée uniquement sur la langue française.En fait, "pour protéger notre culture distincte" est un des arguments les plus populaires pour la souveraineté.. Et maintenant tu veux faire comme si les deux n'étaient pas directement liés?
I still wait from Press 9 the plan for sustaining the infrastructure and economy. Or if we start talking about this, the independence doesn't look so achievable ?NM P.S. Peut-être vous devriez consulter votre amis sur vigile.net
"I still wait from Press 9 the plan for sustaining the infrastructure and economy."I wouldn't count on it, they have never been able to answer that question.Even their own people told them that it wasn't viable (Lucien Bouchard), and what happened? The separatists turned their back on him. They can't even get along among their own people, as soon as one of them says something they don't want to hear.Can you imagine what would have happened with the Shale Gas in the St-Lawrence valley, if we were "our own country" today?? Haha, do you think Lucien would have said no?And then you have people like Pauline Marois, living in her castle on Ile Bizard (the richest area in Quebec), never worked a day in her life, always lived on other people's dime.. But she says we'll be ok! (Her money is invested elsewhere, so she'll be ok)
@Anon 4:06"But she says we'll be ok!"Seeing China becoming a great economic power, it will be no wonder if Quebec, once independent, will be bought by China :), and instead of Canadian values, they will have to embrace the Chinese values ! I'm pretty sure that English is waaaay easier to learn than Chinese :) :) :)NM
"given the fact that English-canadians are a pale copy of another nation (mainly because Americans and English-canadians have the same language and the same mass culture)""Et devenir totalement américain. "----So here is the seppie argument: Canada already IS American (12:09PM), but it needs Quebec or else it will become American (3:22PM)...So the RoC should not delude itself that it’s distinct from the US, and that at the same time it must keep (read: continue to appease) Quebec in order to sustain this (non-existent?) distinction.I don’t think Canadians get fazed by this incoherent, circular (and at times insulting) gibber any longer. This illogical blabber can be spun ad infinitum and it only serves one purpose: to muddy the waters. The truth is that Canada is very similar to the US, and keeping the "distinguishing factor" (i.e. Quebec, or the "French fact") might not be worth it (or it might, provided that Quebec stops behaving like an anti-social state).
Yeap the seppies do want us to leave. Thats why its more important for allos and anglos to quietly let their numbers build especially in the land between Montreal Island and the Ontario border. Once a majority we can always do a vice versa threat to merge Montreal and points west with Ontario.
"Once a majority we can always do a vice versa threat to merge Montreal and points west with Ontario."Voici la marche a suivre :1.Formez un parti politique officiel représentant votre minorité.2.Faites élire des candidats sur des bases de partitions territoriales.3.Obtenez l'aprobation du reste du Québec pour la partition de Montréal par voie référendaire.Bonne chance! :)
@NM"It's so obvious that Quebec and YOU, together with ROC should remain united to counteract all of the above."It's not obvious to me... How so?I'd add that it's a no brainer that Quebec as a country would be part of NAFTA, NATO and all North American agreements."I perfectly understand the desire for preserving your values, but you are doing this in a totally wrong way: by imposing laws that would make the Gestapo proud !"Please... Why would one emigrate to a territory supporting Gestapo-like laws? "I think not, and Quebec needs ROC as ROC needs Quebec , for many years to come !"Again, how so? The fact is that most french-quebecers don't care about Canada*. No love, no hate. Plain indiffence. I ain't no rocket scientist but me thinks it's not by making nazi analogies that you'll convert quebecers to Canada. *Quebecers that are the least attached to Canada are the 18-24 years old group (Association for Canadian studies, 2011 - http://tinyurl.com/625j6qb).
"I'd add that it's a no brainer that Quebec as a country would be part of NAFTA, NATO and all North American agreements."Really ? How so? to be part of NAFTA, NATO and everything else you need to have money ... again, please tell us, where that money will come from ? You have to contribute with something, that's a no brainer.Or do you think everybody will love you just for the fact that you are a french chosen nation within NA?"Why would one emigrate to a territory supporting Gestapo-like laws? "Imagine that: Quebec is not the middle of the universe. So i doubt that even the French know all about the sovereignty issues in Quebec. So yeah, as strange as it sounds, i didn't know about all this shit. Surprise ! "Quebecers that are the least attached to Canada are the 18-24 years old group"We both know ( so as I hope ) that between 18-24 your worries are music, fun, f*king, smoking and other shit, so no wonder you don't give a f*ck about anything else. And don't point me to studies made only on separatists ... I don't know how old are you, but take a good look of our young generation. Do you feel comfortable? Will they be able to provide the same amount of work and interest as we provide?Do you feel comfortable that if they choose to go and study at a University, they will "study" until 30 and even so, will they be ready to work as we do ?I'm sorry if i failed to pass the idea correctly , but i'm pretty sure that you will understand. NM
"...that between 18-24 your worries are music, fun, f*king, smoking and other shit, so no wonder you don't give a f*ck about anything else."Vous ne seriez pas du genre a balancer des généralités par hasard?
@NMQuebec's got a GDP of roughly 300 billion US dollar/year. It's not the backwater state you'd want it to be. Nothwithstanding that fact, I think I'd be the other way around as I highly doubt USA would like having a (another) non-NATO nation as neighbors.I'm 26 so yeah I'm pretty well aware of the young generation. Got a good well-paid job, graduate studies in applied Science. Worked abroad. Lived abroad. Our generation is sure different from the previous ones, but I'm confident about our potential to say the least.Oh... and the Association for Canadian studies is actually a federalist think tank.
"Obtenez l'aprobation du reste du Québec pour la partition de Montréal par voie référendaire."OK, after you get your "aprobation" from the ROC for your attempt to partition Canada by way of a referendum (an aprobation which you might actually get in the ROC, judging by the growing backlash there against Quebec).See how two can play this game so easily?
"Quebecers that are the least attached to Canada are the 18-24 years old group"I wonder how their attitudes evolve once they have to start looking for employment, securing that employment, and possibly having to look elsewhere for employment. All of a sudden, being a part of Canada is not so bad when you get to interview in Calgary, Vancouver, or Toronto without having to bother with work permits or green cards.In 1995, I believe the strongest support for Quebec separation came from Quebec high schools, where mock referenda were conducted by the always "impartial" Quebec media. It is so easy to idealistic about life in high school, and even in the early years of university. It changes a little after that when one begins to realize that not everything is laid out to us as neatly as the politicians promise, that compromises have to be made, that there are limits to what can be done, that actions have consequences and that there is always a price to be paid.
@Le sécessionisteGood for you dude. But how many as you? As for non-NATO neighbor for USA: Mexico is not and USA does not look so frightened. Anyway this thing will last forever, and I'm sure that Q will never leave Canada. Of course it will be terrible to have again a situation that involves terrorist acts and bullshit like this. NM
"So i doubt that even the French know all about the sovereignty issues in Quebec."Je serais assez surpris que quelques français ne connaissent pas le Général Charles DeGaulle."Vive le Quéééébec Liiiiiibre!"- Charles DeGaulle,Montréal,1967
"I highly doubt USA would like having a (another) non-NATO nation as neighbors."The one it already has - Mexico, has a population of over 100 million. It doesn't threaten the US one bit, and neither would a state of 7 million people, 3 million of whom are pot smoking welfare bums. In my opinion, the US wouldn't even take notice of QC and its military "force" comprised of draftees from a poll of self-entitled, pot-smoking, lazy-as-hell teenagers.The interest of the US in Quebec would be equivalent to their interest in Panama - what natural resource can they steal from this place, and is it necessary to invade if they play hardball...And remember that there is a strong anti-French sentiment in the US too (with French fries being renamed to freedom fries). So maybe they'd want to invade you just to put your arrogant asses in place.
"...So maybe they'd want to invade you just to put your arrogant asses in place."Espérons qu'ils auront le même succès qu'en afghanistan.Beaucoup de milliards pour pas grand chose.Les amerlocs n'ont plus la force de frappe qu'ils avaient jadis.Trop de fumeux de pot chez les soldats... :0
"Espérons qu'ils auront le même succès qu'en afghanistan.Beaucoup de milliards pour pas grand chose.Les amerlocs n'ont plus la force de frappe qu'ils avaient jadis.Trop de fumeux de pot chez les soldats... :0 "I really start to belive that you are just plain stupid ...
DeGaulle was already senile when he pronounced those words. Perhaps you ignore the current French president is totally against QC separation."Je serais assez surpris que quelques français ne connaissent pas le Général Charles DeGaulle."Vive le Quéééébec Liiiiiibre!"
"General Charles Degaulle"What a joke. He spent most of World War 2 sitting on his ass in England while the British, Americans and Canadians liberated France. Prime Minister Winston Churchill and President Franklin Delano Roosevelt despised him.I recall seeing a TV documentary where DeGaulle was described as "having a head shaped like a pineapple and had hips like a woman." I recall seeing a documentary on TV where DeG
@ Phil and Press 9http://tinyurl.com/4y2qu2aAlso a very nice history lesson about DeGaulle. But i guess this will not be a surprise for ya 'coz you're used to belive in fake values.NM
@NM"...a surprise for ya 'coz you're used..."Vous êtes d'origine française?Difficile de dissimuler ses racines.
@Press 9 You are very wrong. Not french, but latin/francophone. NM
"...but latin/francophone." ?!?
@NM:Press9 does not accept that you use the word "francophone" unless you are 100% white, catholic, from Quebec, have at least one parent named "Jean-Guy", and have at least one other relative on social security (Press9: BS, au cas où tu ne comprends pas).You are a dirty anglo who should go back to Ontario.
Yes. Romanian. Latin/francophone.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_languageNow, knowing the truth, let the racist remarks flow... :)NM
"Now, knowing the truth, let the racist remarks flow... :)"La race n'a rien a voir dans ce débat.Il s'agit d'un débat linguistique.
"Il s'agit d'un débat linguistique. "I love it. One seppie canard after another.1. Language-based discrimination has been defined by the UN (universal declaration of human rights) as a form of racism. (10:02 - 10:20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn7rau-hdf8&NR=1)2. The double standard - the Anglos/Allos hostile to the "French fact" (even moderately hostile, or like me hostile only to legislative excesses on behalf of French) are OFTEN accused, in the most withering terms, of being racist (I've heard the word "raciste" hurled at so many people a thousand times), but when the hostility goes the other way (Fr towards En), all of a sudden it's about language not race ("English is not a race" is what we hear).There should be a picture of a seppie next to "hypocrite" in the dictionary.----NM, nice to have you in QC (and I'm from Eastern Europe myself). Slowly but surely, the demographic tide is turning our way.
How cute, Press9 actually believes all the french propaganda saying that their cause isn't racist at all.I wonder if germans felt the same way about the Nazi party: "We just want to defend our culture!"You can pretty much get these uneducated separatists to believe anything, as long as you say it french.You know Press9, the original idea of sovereignty wasn't racist, it was about controlling our own destiny, as an entire province. But then people like Jacques Parizeau, Pierre Curzi, Gérald Larose took it and changed it into the english/french battle that you're fighting today. Now it's about "les québécois de souche" vs anyone else. If you had a little island with a big fence around it and no communications with the outside world, I'm guessing you'd be happy.Of course I realize this doesn't bother you, you have no problems being associated with a bunch of racists; after all, they aren't "racist" in your opinion, they are just defending the french quebec culture, right?
"Slowly but surely, the demographic tide is turning our way."Vous n'avez pas besoin de notre aide afin de vous isolez adski,vous le faite très bien vous-même:)Vous avez raison sur un point:Vous êtes vraiment "slow".Je ne vois aucun rassemblement autour d'un parti politique représentant votre minorité a l'horizon.Un million d'anglos et aucun pouvoir politique ou même médiatique...?!?Que se passe-t-il adski?Ou sont vos amis?
Back in Romania we have the same problems with Hungarians trying to separate a part of Romania. Right in the middle :). It's be like this for tens of years. For the same considerations: that land was theirs, 300 years ago. Most of them speak Hungarian over there. And Romanian.Guess what: ordinary people get along very well since the beginning of ages, and the political class is doing anything in their powers to instigate people. And of course, there are separatist over there too...For sure if the separation is to become a reality, all will end in a civil war for sure.Sounds familiar Press 9? Are you willing rto drive your beloved "country" into a civil war? This time Anglos and Allos will not flee like 30 years ago...--------------Thank you guys for your support. I have found here wonderful peoplea and I have made lots of friends (anglos/french/allos).NM
"Sounds familiar Press 9? Are you willing rto drive your beloved "country" into a civil war?"Je crois seulement que les Québécois prendront les moyens nécessaires afin d'assurer leur survie.Monsieur NM,il n'y a jamais eu de guerre civile au canada.Nous sommes des gens civilisés.
@Press 9Yep, you are indeed des gens civilisés:"In 1970 a series of terrorist attacks by separatists ended with the kidnapping and murder of Quebec's minister of labor and immigration, Pierre Laporte. The federal government sent in troops and temporarily suspended civil liberties. "I'm new, but I'm not stupid ...NM
@ adski"Slowly but surely, the demographic tide is turning our way."So let me get this straight: if someone from the provincial majority doesn't like minorities that's racist and wrong...But minorities hoping to become the majority is somehow okay and not racist and intolerant at all? Can't you see it's the same thing? You don't just hate separatists, you hate all Francophones if you want them to become a minority.Are you not from Poland? Didn't the Nazis invade that country and wanted Poles to disappear and to be replaced by Germans? Makes me wonder who is Hitler-like here...Parizeau had a Polish wife back in the day, by the way. So much for being a racist.
"I'm new, but I'm not stupid ..."Juste assez pour ne pas reconnaître la différence entre des actes de révoltes isolés et une guerre civile.
"Parizeau had a Polish wife back in the day, by the way."I'm actually surprised he didn't have an ethnic rich anglophone wife, being the biggest hypocrite this province has seen.Actually I don't think he's really a hypocrite, I think that, just like most separatists, he's only preoccupied by his own needs. "I hate the ethnic and anglos and money, but I'll use your superior services as soon as I get sick and I'll accept your money anytime!"He's a selfish, racist, ignorant, drunk senile old man, and that's the best way to describe him.Jacques Parizeau is like Hitler, minus the army. Which is a good thing, or we would have seen more murders. (I say more, because yes, the separatists killed a person for their cause)
"...Can't you see it's the same thing?"Les angryphones ont leur propre logique...Hélas.Heureusement qu'ils ne sont qu'une minorité a l'intérieur d'une minorité.Finalement,ils sont touts petits.
Yes, you can say that I want Francophones to be a minority, so they can't impose their will in a democratic setting, democracy being the best of the shittiest systems invented, i.e. it's dog shit while other systems are cow shit and bullshit, but dog shit, although small in comparison, is still shit.Quebec is the proof that democracy is a shitty system. Vain and resentful masses can be so easily manipulated.My desire for Francohpoens to become a minority stems from experience of living under them when they are a majority. Nothing more.My goal of having Francophones as a minority is not so that I can impose my will on them, it's so that they can't impose their will on me (and my child and family now) through the system of governance. Having them in minority would essentially mean that they couldn't make a nuisance of themselves to me, and at the same time, I'd do my best not to make a nuisance of myself to them.And yes, I am a libertarian at heart, and I'd love for there to be a time when governments would shrink in size and withdraw from the function of telling (read: coercing) the citizens how to live.Unfortunately, we live in the times of socialism (which is a form of fascism), where everyone can have a grievance and those grievances are addressed by the ruling bodies and coercive measures are enacted in response. And unless you're an English speaking, white-collar, working, tax paying, straight, and male, you're entitled to a grievance, no matter how absurd and ridiculous. We live in the times of fascism. Unfortunately.----"It is often forgotten that democracy, defined chiefly by elections and the exercise of power in the name of majority, can be as repressive of individual freedom and minority rights as dictatorship – sometimes more so"John Gray, Oxford, London School of Economics and Politics, Harvard, Yale
@ Adski,I saw John Gray being interviewed at the Ottawa Writer's Festival this past spring; he truly is a brilliant individual.
@adskiJe suis certain que: "John Gray, Oxford, London School of Economics and Politics, Harvard, Yale"Vous trouverait stupide de ne pas franchir les 100 km qui vous sépare de votre idéal.MDR!
@ adski"My goal of having Francophones as a minority"Well keep dreaming then because that's not going to happen within your lifetime... not that it's ever going to happen. You only need about 5 million people more to become just half the population of this province. Good luck.With current immigration rates, it would take almost the whole century, assuming we wouldn't do anything about it politically before it happens. Maybe we'll just stay there and watch it happen... or maybe we'll wake up. Only time will tell who's right.
My desire for anglophones and allophones to stay minorities stems from experience of living alongside them when they are a minority.Reversed adski philosophy.Will he ever reach his goal? Will he get millions of minorities to live here within his lifetime even though at current immigration rates it would take almost the whole century to happen? Will we watch it happen without doing anything about it politically? Only time will tell.Good thing François Legault has been talking about decreasing immigration rates and that he's bound to win the next election. The Liberal party is nothing if only minorities vote for them.
"Good thing François Legault has been talking about decreasing immigration rates and that he's bound to win the next election."Effectivement,les médias commencent a sortir les statistiques,qui jusqu'a maintenant,étaient un sujet tabou.Ajoutez a cela les observations de L'O.Q.L.F et le tout devient un argument de poids aux prochaines élections provinciales.Le parti Québécois surveille le dossier de très près aussi mais je crois que F.Legault aura la majorité des votes en partie pour sa position plus ferme face a l'immigration et a l'état du français,surtout a Montréal.Le jour ou notre ville atteindra le seuil des 80% des citoyens s'exprimant et travaillant en anglais,la force d'attraction de cette langue risque d'exercer un mouvement d'entraînement fort dommageable sur l'ensemble du Québec francophone. Dans le même ordre d'idées,espérons que le dossier de l'alphabétisation devienne un dossier choyé par chacune des instances politiques car son rôle est capital et est intimement relié a la santé du français ainsi qu'a son succès.Une langue dynamique et en santé est beaucoup plus attrayante.
@Press9: "Le jour ou notre ville atteindra le seuil des 80% des citoyens s'exprimant et travaillant en anglais,[...]"Est-ce que tu n'es pas capable de lire, ou tu as des troubles d'apprentissage?"Par contre, indique une autre recherche, la proportion d'immigrants qui adoptent le français comme langue d'usage n'a pas cessé d'augmenter depuis 1976. De plus, la baisse de la part du français ne se fait pas au profit de l'anglais, qui est lui aussi en déclin, mais à celui des autres langues.""N'oublions pas, par ailleurs, que les francophones demeureront largement majoritaires dans l'ensemble de la province (78% en 2031). Dans 20 ans, les allophones (12%) dameront le pion aux anglophones (10%)."Il est très évident que tu n'as aucuns arguments pour la souveraineté à part ton problème avec les anglais. Je me demande d'où vient se sentiment d'infériorité.Est-ce que c'est parce que ton père te disait continuellement comment les anglais sont "méchants"?Est-ce que les anglophones ne te laissais pas jouer avec eux quand tu étais jeune?Est-ce que tu as perdu un emploi à un individu qui est bilingue?Est-ce qu'une fille t'as rejeté parce que tu parles comme un bucheron?Est-ce que tu es jaloux des gens alentours de toi qui ont tant de possibilités alors que tu es limité à ton petit village?Peu importe, j'espère que tu pourras t'en sortir un jour.
"Est-ce que tu n'es pas capable de lire, ou tu as des troubles d'apprentissage?"Je dirais...Hmmmmm...Un savant mélange des deux :)
Hi. I am immigrant who came from a south-american country where Spanish is the official language (no English, no French). From my point of view, I can say that neither sovereignty, any law nor this kind of discussion will make a language stronger. The only way to expand French along the country and North America is by spreading the Québec's culture by the Quebecers themselves. A very good example of this, is my native language: Spanish. I was completely surprised when this summer I decided to visit New York (The core of North America itself). but I discovered that the city is almost completely bilingual. Spanish was everywhere: the airport was bilingual: constructions warnings about safety where in English and Spanish; Phone costumer services where offered in both languages. People were speaking Spanish everywhere.Back to Montreal, I searched a little and I found out that the country with the second largest number of Spanish speakers is United States, only surpassed by Mexico!! (Spain, Argentina, Peru, Venezuela, Cuba, Colombia, Ecuador, etc where all behind).What happened? Is there any Spanish revolution? Is somebody trying to force Spanish laws to the American people? Are there forever-lasting discussions about how to spread and preserve Spanish in North America where there is a clearly English majority? NOOOOOOOOONothing of that. We are just spreading ourselves and our culture. We make the people accept us and love us by just being as we are, without critics to others' cultures and languages.That is what Quebecers must do. Just be, spread their culture around the country and North America, make themselves being loved for what they are with no more fights and discussions. Just keep speaking French wherever you go. We, Spanish speakers, are succeeding in the same goal without having even the intention. North America is becoming a Spanish-speaker land little by little. I don't really feel any particular pride about this fact. I just cited this as an example of what you really do.The World doesn't need more borders but union.
What makes it hard living here are the vocal, angry, overly emotional separatists that bash on anyone that isn't 'pure laine'.The rest of the Quebecois make me almost as sick: even if they are lukewarm to, or even totally against, the separatists, they don't speak up. That complacency is what keeps the movement on life support.So you have hardcore racism, thinly veiled as a 'social justice' separatist movement, and insincere but complacent opponents to the movement, who vote 'no' in the referendums. Nice what the 'Quebecois Nation' has as strong cultural norms (hatred and complacency), isn't it?What's sad is that they are influenced by propaganda. They should read REAL history books about Canada, not revisionist garbage: they'll find out it's a lot more complicated and surprising than what the old separatists tell them!If you don't believe the books, why don't you ask French Canadian WW2 veterans why they served? I'm sure you can find one if you try hard enough... Oh yeah, Quebecois don't do independent research and fact double-checking...Anyway, your 'dream' for an independent Quebec country is doomed, because you give no evidence that you thought it through... although you do imply strongly that you want to persecute minorities.So don't forget, the separatist 'dream' isn't convincing, as it sounds like a hazy nightmare to the rest of us. If ever it happened to come true somehow, many hundreds of thousands of us will leave Quebec to remain Canadian (or just go far away). That's not a warning... it's a promise!
I wan to sep-erate and to be the rest and everybody speak my language French. I don’t like English peoples so they will leave an I will take der moneys and der business and be rich after. Tank you for very much for listening. Tsiggy doo, Jean Guy Belanger