Tuesday, August 23, 2011

Suprise! Pauline Marois is Right!

As the feeding frenzy progresses, with militants seeking to undermine or outright destroy the Parti Quebecois, I can only sit back in utter amazement at a spectacle that reminds me of an unstable and desperate mental patient inflicting tiny cuts on his body by way of multiple stab wounds, leading to that proverbial 'death of a thousand cuts.'


Ever since May 2, sovereigntists have been looking for someone to blame for the election debacle, but since Gilles Duceppe has slinked off the stage, it appears that Pauline Marois has been drafted as the sacrificial lamb, destined to become the fresh kill, necessary to feed the blood lust of those separatists furious with the negative turn of events, a wild mob determined to wreak vengeance on someone, anyone.

And so poor Pauline is being treated no better than a piñatabashed around joyfully by blindfolded, directionless children, intent on destruction in the hopes of winning the candy.

So what is Pauline's great crime?
Why did her popularity collapse taking her from hero to zero in a matter of months?

Obviously it was the disaster of May 2, that triggered a stampede, led by the vigile.net rabble who exploded in utter frustration, watching the foundation of their forty years of sovereigntist militancy go up in smoke or down the drain, both metaphors, equally appropriate.

And so they have come to the startling conclusion that sovereignty can only be achieved by.... well..er.....hmmmm..... they haven't really said.

What they have said is that the PQ and Marois' go-slow approach is the wrong path to follow. Given the pragmatic point of view of the current PQ leadership that a referendum would be a disaster, the Marois approach is to take over government and rule with a sovereigntist optic until those mythical winning conditions materialize.

Not a great plan, but readers, what else can Marois and the PQ do?

Obviously the people are not in favour of a referendum or sovereignty, with  a new poll indicating that only 32% of voters would vote YES. On top of it, many of those who would vote YES, don't want a referendum either, believing realistically, that the inevitable loss would cripple Quebec even more in relation to the RoC.

Now the 'go-fast' sovereigntists, including a bunch of hardliner MP's who quit the PQ caucus to sit as independents took part in a weekend seminar to launch yet one more sovereigntist group, the "Nouveau Mouvement pour le Québec" dedicated to support a more aggressive approach, which turns out to be nothing more than organizing province-wide coffee klatches to talk up the separatist option.
In response Marois announced that she too will organize some meetings.
I  can't wait!

Frankly, it's pitiful.

The weekend rally which attracted about 400, was a rag-tag collection of disaffected PQ faithful combined with more radical elements including some ex-FLQ terrorists and present day wannabes from the RRQ, splitting off into a radical camp whose denunciation of the PQ has hurt the party to the point that support has plunged to just 24%, ten points behind Jean Charest's Liberals.

Readers, I have read dozens and dozens of these PQ and Marois denunciations in the mainstream press, as well as on the pages of vigile.net.
It was a colossal waste of time.
After bashing Marois and the PQ for a go-slow approach, nobody has a better solution, probably because there isn't any.

For an incredibly simple and straight forward analysis, read this magnificent article in the Toronto Star by Pierre Martin, a professor of political science at the Université de Montréal.
"Like many other idealistic political movements, the Quebec sovereignty movement suffers from a chronic incapacity to find the proper balance between idealism and realism; conviction and pragmatism; rationality and emotion. 
In all mass movements for change, true believers provide vital energy, but they often are viscerally incapable of understanding the hesitations of those they wish to rally to their cause. This is why many rock-solid sovereignists always distrusted the professional politicians who stepped forward in their name to run a “mere province” or to fill seats in a “foreign” parliament.
Read the entire article, you won't regret it.   Sovereignty and its discontents 

Watching the war between separatists reminds me of the war between Iraq's Saddam Hussein and Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini where I cheered for neither one side or the other, just that the war would go on forever......

Yes, I know I'll get mail for that comment......

31 comments:

  1. "Frankly, it's pitiful."

    Et cela semble vous préoccuper royalement...N'est-ce pas?

    Je perçois même une certaine peur.Non?

    Vous savez parfaitement bien que l'electorat Québécois est aussi instable que volatile et qu'il peut basculer de façon brutale et totalement inusité,comme nous l'avons vécu récemment.Il s'agit parfois de petits évènements ou de l'alignement des planètes et...Paf!

    Vous n'êtes pas sans savoir que les Québécois sont plutôt prompts et compulsifs,il s'agit de les agiter un peu trop et encore...Paf!

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  2. @ Press 9 (aka Anonym)

    Il est fin pour les pequistes. Desole...en anglais proper. It is over for the pequiste and the separatists. Read... Over. You shot yourself in the foot again just as before.

    Now pick up your life and move to a former French colony such as Algiers or Haiti....wait a minute, are they not teaching english these days. I thought so.

    The war was over on the Plains and your people lost, then, and have lost today. Even with the OLA and other French imperatives (funded by the anglos) your culture and language is dieing.

    Separate now,...leave...no one will miss you. Please take your friends and family with you. The less we have of you..the better our society wll be.

    You might catch the last freighter, if you hurray.

    Bonne chance.

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  3. Quebec is finally joining the rest of the planet and focusing on a "Right Vs Left" political debate rather than the 1960's inspired "Should I Stay Or Should I Go" Separatist Vs Federalist waste of time. The PQ has worn itself out politically. They haven't had a new idea in 30 years and the ones they do want to foist upon the populace are out of touch and just plain silly (ie. denying the right of an adult which post secondary school they can attend based on their bloodlines). The knife to the throat of the ROC approach to getting what they want politically has also been played out. The ROC has called their bluff. Pauline Marois' proposed confrontational style of governing Quebec if they ever get elected has proven to be another major turn-off for the Quebec electorate. In this day and age when people are wondering how they're going to afford a home and how to keep their heads above water financially with ever increasing household debt, picking fights with Ottawa over non-issues and perceived injustices is just what the average Quebec voter does NOT want. Good riddance to the PQ and the Separatist cause, you will not be missed.

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  4. Seperatists are like Zombies, they're dead but just don't know it yet. Meanwhile they go around annoying everone trying to live.

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  5. @DrunkGuyReneLevesqueKilled: I couldn't agree more, with everything you said.

    The separatists sure are "sore losers". Nobody will ever take responsibility and say "well maybe the population doesn't want this after all", no, instead it's always someone or something else's fault.

    From money and the ethnic vote, to stolen federal elections by lack of information.. They'll always come up with something.
    And when they can't find anything, they start blaming each other.

    We can't really complain, this is good for Quebec.

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  6. Quebec sovereignty movements are dying. That's fact. If you say otherwise you're seriously delusional.

    Facts:

    -BQ has lost its official party status.
    -PQ has serious internal strife, will never recover.
    -Anglos are settling in the Montreal area again.
    -Immigration in Quebec has produced a large number of federalist voters.

    Désolé Press 9 ^^, c'est fini.

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  7. "Désolé Press 9 ^^, c'est fini."

    Amen to that...

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  8. @ PHIL la marmotte

    Il y a eu un premier exode d'anglos dans les années 1830. Il y a eu un deuxième exode d'anglos dans les années 1970. Je parie sur le fait qu'il y aura un troisième exode d'anglos d'ici dix ans.

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  9. @ Anonymous:

    Get your facts straight:

    "But after 35 years of uninterrupted population decline, the latest census data made public in December 2007 showed a 5.5-per-cent increase in the anglophone community from 2001 to 2006. It was the first census-to-census, five-year growth in the English-speaking community since 1971. Overall, the number of anglos who came to Quebec from other provinces and countries, or who were born here between 2001 and 2006, exceeded the number who left, or who died during these same five years."

    Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/Here+stay+anglo/1231646/story.html#ixzz1VysQfNq8

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  10. "...who were born here between 2001 and 2006, exceeded the number who left, or who died during these same five years."

    Le problême pour les anglos du Québec est que vous n'avez malheureusement plus d'école,elles ferment une a une.Je suis franchement désolé.Injuste quand 20 écoles Québécoises sont actuellement en construction dont 13 seulement dans la région de Montréal.Vraiment injuste :(

    http://tinyurl.com/4xu3pu7

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  11. To add to DrunkGuy's comments, I would relish a good fight between right and left in Quebec, but right now the left would win hands down. Mario D. already tried his hand at the right, made opposition once, lost that, then quit politics.

    Now watch the NDP follow suit, with Jack gone, but we'll have to be patient and wait four years for the mystery to completely unfold because, boy, are they gonna lose baaaaaaaaad!! Mulki WILL win the leadership, by hook or by crook (likely the latter), alienate his fellow MPs, probably the party executive and definitely the voters, esp. outside Quebec.

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  12. 'PHIL la marmotte' is a great nickname by the way. lol

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  13. I think triumphalist rhetoric isn't exactly what's called for (at any time), and I particularly deplore the amount of negative attacks I'm reading here these days. I find we do a lot better when we discuss ideas (particularly scandalous ones) rather than bitch.

    This kind of “you’ll be defeated/dead soon” language doesn't help our separatist compatriots, no matter how passionately many of us disagree with that position, to realize that the next step for their movement is to finally weave itself into the fabric of mainstream Canadian society. This country is big enough for multiple languages and cultures to coexist, and yes, even compete. And it is possible to compete without clashing.

    And yes, I realize I'm a staunch federalist who believes nationalism of any stripe in any country is more dangerous than it is helpful. But maybe the whole "it's over" talk, whether by federalists or separatists might not go over so well with the opposing side. After all, the real enemy here is our politicians’ inability to formulate a modus vivendi we can all happily live by. And perhaps both sides have been wrong for the last half century to ever expect politicians from either side to ever reach a lasting consensus.

    Specific political orientations aside, can we at least begin by agreeing that wishing for the extinction or (self-)effacement of either community is counter-productive? Just a thought. Just a playful thought.

    I remain optimistic.

    > Vous n'êtes pas sans savoir que les Québécois sont plutôt prompts et compulsifs,il s'agit de les agiter un peu trop et encore...Paf!

    Il y a aussi l'autre côté de la médaille, Press 9. Peut être le comportement je-m’en-foutiste des Québécois nous fait perdre beaucoup plus de plumes qu’on ne penserait. Je pense que le moment est enfin venu où le Québec prenne conscience du rôle important qu’il a à jouer et l’assume, sans bouder et sans trompette.

    On jouit d’une masse critique démographique pour pouvoir assurer notre chérie survivance au Québec. Tôt ou tard, il nous faudra passer du mode survivance (qu’on vit d’une mouture ou d’une autre depuis 250 ans) au mode interdépendance. Et il faudra le faire, que l’on soit indépendants ou non. Et pour ce faire, des vaches sacrées devront ultimement être sacrifiées par toutes les parties intéressées au Canada.

    Il y a quelques jours, on m’a effectivement dit sur cette même tribune qu’une tolérance et égalité linguistiques constituent des risques trop importants et qu’on ne peut pas se permettre de les prendre, compte tenu des risques. Je ne peux qu’humblement soumettre que peut être on devrait jeter un second regard à l’alternative peu ampoulée, peu grandiloquente, et peu déclamatoire. Une position ferme, équitable, et respectueuse pourrait éventuellement finir par nous valoir plus de respect et, qui sait, des imitateurs.

    Je demeure optimiste.

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  14. "Je demeure optimiste."

    C'est très bien mais je crois que vous êtes plutôt un idéaliste.Le modèle suggéré d'un Canada multiculturel et harmonieux dont vous rêvez n'existe nul part ailleurs,sauf peut-être en Suisse(4 langues nationales).

    De plus les Québécois n'accepteront jamais a titre de peuple fondateur de ce pays,d'être considérés comme un groupe ethnique parmi tant d'autres.

    Outre cette dernière considération ainsi que la proximité de l'immense bassin anglophone que sont les É-U,en quoi serions-nous si différents des pays de l'union Européene,par exemple?

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  15. > C'est très bien mais je crois que vous êtes plutôt un idéaliste

    Merci! Si l'on ne se fonde pas sur des idéaux, sur quoi se fond-t-on, au juste? Même les indépendantistes les plus purzédurs ont leur propres idéaux (même si je ne les partage pas). J’espère que mes idéaux primeront. Pas parce que je suis sadique ni parce que j’aimerais savourer la disparition d’un peuple. Mais plutôt parce que je ne crois pas aux schismes; je suis d’avis je crois que toute résolution réelle passe par la solidarité, la compréhension, et l’entregent. Et que tôt ou tard, même les pires ennemis comprendront le sens d’aimer ses ennemis.

    Si nos amis Européens commencent enfin à l’apprendre (malgré certains balbutiements), j’ai confiance aux Canadiens eux aussi (qui soit dit en passant ont un passé beaucoup moins sanglant, comparativement).

    > Le modèle suggéré d'un Canada multiculturel et harmonieux dont vous rêvez n'existe nul part ailleurs,[…]

    Faux. Il existe sous nos yeux ici même à Montréal. Je suis d'ailleurs fort heureux que nous ayons l'exemple montréalais qui prouve qu'il est bien possible de vivre en mode bilingue (trilingue? multilingue?) sans "perdre" ce qu’on est. Je suis un de ces Québécois qui accepte à la fois la réalité qu'est son métissage culturel, linguistique, et ethnique. Je ne me sens pas moins franco, anglo, ou allo pour autant. Pourquoi les purzédurs ne veulent-ils pas reconnaitre que les gens comme moi sont de plus en plus la règle et non pas l’exception? Pourquoi, plutôt que de me féliciter et d’encourager d’autres à faire comme moi (ou encore mieux) pour faire rayonner un Québec fier dans un Canada interdépendent, s’attardent-ils à brosser un portrait caricaturé et grossier du multiculturalisme et à conter des histoires mensongères de bonhomme sept heures à leur électorat pure-laine hyper effrayé qui connait déjà très peu les motivations de ces autres groupes qui les entoure?

    > […]sauf peut-être en Suisse(4 langues nationales).

    Faut pas que j'attende que d'autres pays créent un paradigme pour que je puisse accepter que c'est possible. Et bien que la Suisse soit un exemple, elle est loin d'être la seule. En Inde, par exemple on dénombre des douzaines de langues locales (dépendamment de l'état dans lequel on se trouve), et bon nombre de celles-ci ont cours légal. Bien sûr, l'Hindi est l'une des langues principales qui chapeaute le tout. Au sud, le Tamoul joue un rôle pas tout à fait semblable, mais (suffisamment) presque.

    Une certaine forme de multiculturalisme a aussi existé dans l’empire Ottoman. Arabes, Grecs, Arméniens, Slaves, Kurdes; Chrétiens, Juifs, Musulmans; tous étaient réunis sous une seule bannière. Convenons qu’une plus saine gestion économique ainsi qu’un plus grand respect des droits humains auraient rendu l’expérience beaucoup plus agréable. Il faut quand même avouer qu’il y a une certaine injustice à exiger qu’une entité qui a existé du 15e au 20e siècle applique des notions du 20e et 21e siècles. Mais l’idée prototypique y était. Et je parierais que les mouvements ethnonationalistes ayant frappé cet empire au 19e siècle n’auraient pas connu le succès qu’ils ont connu si l’empire n’était pas lui-même moribond.

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  16. > De plus les Québécois n'accepteront jamais a titre de peuple fondateur de ce pays,d'être considérés comme un groupe ethnique parmi tant d'autres.

    Tout à fait comprenable. Mais si les descendants des vaincus de 1759 veulent qu’on les considère comme des canadiens à part entière, encore faut-ils que ces premiers se comportent comme une partie intégrante du pays. On peut bien être fiers de Céline et de Roch Voisine, mais trop souvent au Québec, on oublie nos Roméo LeBlanc, nos Louise Arbour, et nos Roméo Dallaire; on les malmène, et souvent on les traite de vendus pour le simple fait d’avoir osé danser le rigodon fédéraliste qui a fini par les propulser très haut.

    Je pense que l’émancipation des francophones surtout pendant la révolution tranquille a été une très bonne chose pour la survie du fait français au Canada. Mais je crois que l’hostilité au bilinguisme qui est apparue par la suite a été non seulement un excès mais aussi une grave erreur qui continue à nous nuire, surtout en tant que population minoritaire en Amérique du Nord. C’est que je crois que nous pouvons nous démarquer tout en célébrant les attitudes, les habitudes, la géographie, l’histoire, et le pratiques culturelles qui nous unissent, sans trop craindre pour nos effectifs. Le taux astronomique de bilinguisme dans les pays scandinaves, par exemple, devrait nous inspirer : ces peuples ne sont pas en voie de perdre leur souveraineté culturelle pour autant…

    Une certaine sagesse s’impose.

    > en quoi serions-nous si différents des pays de l'union Européene,par exemple?
    Svp clarifier. Je crois comprendre la question, mais je ne suis pas certain à 100%.

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  17. @Anonymous

    "Now pick up your life and move to a former French colony such as Algiers or Haiti...."

    We are not moving anywhere. Even without independence, we'll still continue living here, in Québec, just like we've been doing for centuries, where there are few anglos outside of a tiny territory called the west island and there won't be many moving in in the future... they have left and will never come back. Most of the territory is English-free and it will never be English-speaking.

    "wait a minute, are they not teaching english these days. I thought so."

    I've learned English as you can see and I still speak my mother tongue. English will always be a second language to us. We won't assimilate because we don't live among a majority of people like you. This is not Louisiana or the rest of Canada. French has of course been declining there but here it's been rising every single census. Ask Statistics Canada about it. The percentage declined a little bit (only because of the share of immigrants in Montréal, which is nothing like the rest of the province) but the absolute numbers increased,

    "The war was over on the Plains and your people lost"
    Well we didn't lose the Plains and the city next to it. In case you didn't know our capital is 99% French-speaking. You will never have it. It's ours and has been ours for four hundred years. Same goes for all the territory around it. This is our land and you will never occupy it.
    The people who really lost anything here are the anglos who were more numerous in the past but have always been a minority. Our numbers never declined, unlike them.

    "your culture and language is dieing"
    No, it's not and I have sources to prove it unlike you. See my post here at August 25, 2011 3:10 AM if it didn't get censored:
    http://nodogsoranglophones.blogspot.com/2011/08/jack-layton-rip.html

    We are having more children than before and they speak French and their grandchildren will speak French too and so on. The situation here is nothing like in other provinces. Can't you see the difference between this province and the others? Do you not know the difference between percentage (well of course the percentage of French-speakers declines when English Canada accepts tons of immigrants) and actual numbers (not decreasing here according the latest census)? Assimilation can't happen where French-speakers are a majority. History has proven it. Good luck finding native French-speakers speaking English at home in this province (unless of course they have an anglo partner but even in those few cases, they don't lose their French). Haters have been saying it for centuries but assimilation never happened within Québec, only outside of it because there, Francophones are a minority. You can even find assimilated anglos in regions outside of Montréal because what matters is the local majority. You may be a majority on this continent but you not are here locally so it has no impact.

    2001. Language(s) First Learned and Still Understood
    French only 5,761,765
    http://www12.statcan.ca/english/Profil01/CP01/Details/Page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo1=PR&Code1=24&Geo2=PR&Code2=01&Data=Count&SearchText=Qu%E9bec&SearchType=Begins&SearchPR=01&B1=All&GeoLevel=&GeoCode=24

    2006. Now including language spoken at home too.
    Mother tongue French only 5,877,660
    Spoken at home: French 6,027,735
    http://www12.statcan.ca/census-recensement/2006/dp-pd/prof/92-591/details/Page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo1=PR&Code1=24&Geo2=PR&Code2=01&Data=Count&SearchText=Quebec&SearchType=Begins&SearchPR=01&B1=All&GeoLevel=PR&GeoCode=24

    Looks like French is alive and well.
    Btw,
    "dieing"
    English is not my native language and even I know that you should spell it dying.

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  18. "Svp clarifier. Je crois comprendre la question, mais je ne suis pas certain à 100%."

    Désolé.Ma question sous-entendait les tensions sociales générées par la difficulté de plusieurs pays Européens (Occidentaux) a intégrer les différents groupes ethniques et dont le nombre ne cesse de croître.

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  19. I was going to write out a long, sarcastic post with arguments for why I "agree" with our culturally-retarded Jean-Guy above me here.
    But then I realized that even if I say "OUAIS! Qu'on les rassemble tous sur une ile à quelque part les anglais sales!", they'll probably just think I'm serious and take it as support.

    After all, nothing is "wrong" when it comes to separatists. Racism, intolerance, they learn it from the politicians here!

    Instead I'll just go over some of the more ridiculous points of his rant:


    "Most of the territory is English-free and it will never be English-speaking."

    I love that, a proud Québécois! "Less culture and knowledge is a good thing! We're proud! God forbid people should learn different things, they might start thinking for themselves!"
    Also you're actually proud that most people can't speak the language of global business.
    I know you think it's ok though, since you don't think someone from quebec should ever have to associate with a dirty foreigner.


    "(well of course the percentage of French-speakers declines when English Canada accepts tons of immigrants)"

    Yeah! Immigration and multiculturalism is bad! We only want french, white catholics in quebec! We're not racist btw, just protecting our culture and language!


    "In case you didn't know our capital is 99% French-speaking. You will never have it. It's ours and has been ours for four hundred years."

    Really? Are you like a 10 year old child who holds onto his toys while screaming "I'M NOT SHARING!!"
    But either way, just FYI, nobody is trying to take us over.. I don't know where your paranoia comes from, I guess péquiste propaganda is stronger than I had imagined.
    I also imagine that you haven't been outside this province, if you think that Quebec city is *that* special.


    "The situation here is nothing like in other provinces. Can't you see the difference between this province and the others?"

    Again, you should probably leave Lac St-Jean for a while and get out more, you might notice that *everywhere* is different from everywhere else. Language, religion, skin color, values, traditions, etc.. French extremists like you are so self-centered that you think you're the center of the world. Canada is not just "french from quebec, and then english from the rest of Canada". We are very different, from coast to coast, in many respects. And the fact that we are united, despite these differences, is what makes this such a great and unique country. It also makes us stronger as a society, unlike the nazi idea of "one culture only!"

    Lâche pas Jean-Guy, tu vas les avoir les méchants anglais!

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  20. "Le problême pour les anglos du Québec est que vous n'avez malheureusement plus d'école,elles ferment une a une.Je suis franchement désolé."

    It's not nearly as bad as you think. A lot of french immersion schools are in fact english schools, where everyone speaks english except in french class. It's a great place for french speakers to learn english.

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  21. "We are not moving anywhere. Even without independence, we'll still continue living here, in Québec,"

    Yes, unfortunately this situation will continue with the parasitic people in Quebec enjoying the brown envelopes provided by other hard working Canadians ( 8.5 BILLION in equalization payments) in other provinces. The sense of entitlement of the Quebecois is astonishing.

    " Well we didn't lose the Plains and the city next to it "

    Damn right you did...the English allowed you to keep your folk language which has proven to be a grave mistake. Of course, perhaps, you were educated in Quebec where they frequently re-write history to suit their warped agenda.

    "Our numbers never declined, unlike them."

    Little wonder with bill 101, countless referendums and outright bias and discrimination against the anglo minority in Quebec. Of course, Montreal used to be a thriving business metropolis but with the incompentent Quebecois running things, look what happened. (Crumbling infrastructure, crime and the most corrupt politicians in Canada)

    "Can't you see the difference between this province and the others?"

    Well, I certainly can. Discriminatory language laws, third world levels of debt, incompetent policitians and a people who seem to feel they deserve a free ride on the backs of others.

    "Looks like French is alive and well."

    The folk language (Joual in Quebec) is currently on life support through incredible measures such as Bill 101 and the failed ( and extremely expensive) Official Language Act of Canada. Much the same in the entire world where French has been falling in common usage on a yearly basis.

    http://theworldwidedeclineoffrench.blogspot.com/

    As a confirmation French has fallen to less than 15th place in the world ranking of languages. What was it 10 years ago?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers

    It's a good thing you learned English as it is, after all, the lingua franca of the the world. Why would anyone waste any time on French which is becoming less and less influential. Better to learn Spanish in North America.

    Ask yourself why there is need for language laws in Canada or Quebec? Protecting a culture through laws has never been successful in the long term.


    "English is not my native language and even I know that you should spell it dying."

    Congratulations, one star for you !!

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  22. "Why would anyone waste any time on French..."

    Cetainement pas vous car vous semblez assez limité coté ouverture sur le monde et de sa diversité culturelle.Ce niveau de curiosité est souvent associé a un Q.I relativement bas.De plus,vous me paraissez plutôt suffisant et arrogant comme plusieurs de vos comparses racistes aux penchants totalitaires:

    Une planète,une langue!

    Dommage pour vous que ce mot d'ordre ne fonctionne pas chez-nous.Vous serez toujours bon deuxième.Vous bouffez peut-être du francophone dans le ROC mais vous allez passer sous la table au Québec.

    Heureusement que vous ne représentez qu'un faible pourcentage de votre minorité car il y a longtemps qu'on vous aurait botter le cul hors du Québec!

    Vive le Québec Français!Et bienvenue aux anglophones ouverts d'esprit!

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  23. "De plus,vous me paraissez plutôt suffisant et arrogant comme plusieurs de vos comparses racistes aux penchants totalitaires:"

    Where are there draconian laws such as Bill 101 anywhere in Canada but Quebec? Je me croire que vous etes les racistes, en fait.


    Vous bouffez peut-être du francophone dans le ROC mais vous allez passer sous la table au Québec.

    You mean under the foot of the "brown shirt" language zealots such as yourself.

    "vous aurait botter le cul hors du Québec!"

    Doubt you would, but then again, I chose not to live in your "have not" welfare state of a Province complete with the Joual folk language :)

    "Vive le Québec Français!"

    Isn't that Vive le Quebec JOUAL. :):)

    "bienvenue aux anglophones ouverts d'esprit!"

    Isn't that welcome to all the anglophones who want to live as second class citizens to the "pure laine" supremists.

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  24. "I chose not to live in your "have not" welfare state of a Province complete with the Joual folk language :)"

    Choix très judicieux,merci!
    Alors,que faites-vous sur ce blogue?

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  25. @Anonymous 11:04 AM

    "Damn right you did"
    No I meant we didn't lose the territory where the Plains are because we are the majority there and have always been since the battle. Re-read what I said, the city next to it. You can keep saying you won (which we don't deny, our history manuals do talk about it but what do you know about history classes in our schools? you weren't there) but the fact remains that you didn't win Québec City in the sense that you don't occupy it and that will never change unless you're totally deluded and think anglos will start moving in which won't happen and hasn't been happening. At the end of the day, military victories don't matter, only the people occupying the territory matter.

    "the English allowed you to keep your folk language which has proven to be a grave mistake"
    I never said anywhere anything against anglos, I was just stating the facts that there are few of them throughout most of the province and I get called a fascist and then this guy says this. Who's the intelorant person here? You don't own us. You can't do with us whatever you want. We will stay here and keep speaking our language whether you like it or not.

    ""Our numbers never declined, unlike them."
    "Little wonder with bill 101, countless referendums and outright bias and discrimination against the anglo minority in Quebec."

    You don't get it, do you? Even without Bill 101, anglos would still be a minority (they were before Bill 101) and I meant number of people, not percentage. More anglos would only mean a higher percentage of anglos but it wouldn't mean less French-speakers. We speak French because we were raised in French and Bill 101 didn't change any of that, it wasn't made for the majority. We speak it because we want to, not because we are forced to. Even if all immigrants would have gone to English schools, there would still be more of us than of them. It's only a Montréal issue. Bill 101 had no effect in the rest of the province.

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  26. Continuing from 7:56 PM
    "The folk language (Joual in Quebec) is currently on life support through incredible measures such as Bill 101 and the failed ( and extremely expensive) Official Language Act of Canada."

    No it's not as I've already shown with stats from Statistics Canada. Where are YOUR sources? It's only in trouble in English Canada. As I've said, we didn't need laws to continue speaking French because we've been speaking it for centuries. The majority of the people in this province trace the majority of their ancestors back to before 1759 so we are not minorities forced to speak French (minorities keep speaking their languages at home anyway). There never was an English majority in Québec in case you didn't know and it's not like it was going to happen without Bill 101 because they would have needed millions of people (which they never had here) and of course millions of anglos didn't leave (only a few hundred thousands) and they started leaving in the sixties, before Bill 101.

    "As a confirmation French has fallen to less than 15th place in the world ranking of languages."
    Well it's still 1st in Québec and it has been for centuries and will never become 2nd in the future, not with ten times less anglos than francos.

    "Better to learn Spanish in North America."
    Anywhere else in North America maybe but it would be of little use for anyone wanting to live here. Even English is of little use for most regions where one can live totally in French but not so much in English. I realize English and Spanish are more important outside of Québec but you need to realize it's the other way around within the provincial borders.

    You keep saying our language is on life support while, in reality, we'll keep being more than six million speaking it and raising our children in French and in turn they will do the same with their children, who will go to French schools of course.
    Linguists agree: a dying language is one that is only spoken by elders. Not the case here. Québec French is more spoken than many European languages such as: Norwegian, Finnish, Danish, Slovak, Croatian, Slovenian, Icelandic, Estonian, Lithuanian, Latvian, etc. and nobody ever says their languages are in trouble. As for French in general (which we understand just like you understand British English), it's third in Europe. We don't care not being hundreds of millions, we're still more numerous than half the countries in the world.

    I never said anything anti-English. When I said
    "Most of the territory is English-free and it will never be English-speaking."
    I was just stating a fact confirmed by the census. I'm just sick of hate-filled people saying they want us to disappear and wished we were a minority. It will not happen and we have as much of a right to exist as anybody else.

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  27. @Anonymous 10:26 AM

    "you should probably leave Lac St-Jean for a while"
    You speak of intolerance and yet you are insulting people from a region, how ironic.

    "and get out more, you might notice that *everywhere* is different from everywhere else. Language, religion, skin color, values, traditions, etc.. "

    I live near Montréal and as soon as one leaves that area it becomes obvious ALL the regions are pretty much the same language-wise so stop making fun of remote regions all the time because you don't need to drive for hours to escape multicultural Montréal.

    "French extremists like you are so self-centered that you think you're the center of the world."
    I'm an extremist because I can't stand people who wish Québec would have an English-speaking majority? Do you consider them extremists too? Do they not think they are the center of the world, which they wish would speak English (even though 95% of the world has something else as their native language, there is a world outside of North America). I don't want French to take over the world, I just don't want it to disappear here. You spoke of different languages in other places well that's my point: why should this part of the world right here become English-speaking? Wouldn't that mean less diversity in the world? You should talk to the intolerant anglos (not all) about this instead. How dare a region of North America not speak English!

    "We are very different, from coast to coast, in many respects."
    And I want to keep that difference. Somehow, wanting this makes me an intolerant person. Wahetever. Keep attacking people who care about French while leaving anti-French/anti-any-non-English-language people alone and then talking about wanting to preserve differences.

    "It also makes us stronger as a society, unlike the nazi idea of "one culture only!""
    Which is what some people here want: English only. But of course, I'm the nazi.

    "Lâche pas Jean-Guy, tu vas les avoir les méchants anglais!"
    I never said anything against anglos who respect us. Don't give up, Johnny! You'll win over those evil Francophones! How dare they even still be here! How dare they even speak their language which was spoken before we even arrived!

    Oh, right, they'll say something about the Indians... well you anglos and allophones are NOT Indians and if we have no business being here after four centuries then I don't even know why people who came after us (and the after the Indians) would even belong here. Somehow it's okay for English Canadians and Americans to live on Indian land.
    So according to some people on this blog: everyone is good and has a right to live in Québec... everyone except of course 80% of the population.
    I don't hate all immigrants, just those who come here and then wish we wouldn't even exist (see Westallophone, adski, etc). Can you imagine the opposite situation, in their original country? They wouldn't tolerate it. There is intolerance among minorities, too, you know. At least the intolerant guy (which I'm not) who has been here for 15 generations has a past and a majority behind him. That doesn't make it okay to hate immigrants but the other way around is even worse because they have no respect for the people who were here before them yet it would drive them mad if it happened to them where they came from.

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  28. "As I've said, we didn't need laws to continue speaking French because we've been speaking it for centuries."

    This being the case, why are there draconian language laws such as 101 which restrict choices in education, language in the workforce and place restrictions on commercial signage? You indicate that they are not necessary so again, why are they in existence. Must be a reason, n'est pas.

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  29. "You don't get it, do you? Even without Bill 101, anglos would still be a minority (they were before Bill 101) and I meant number of people, not percentage. More anglos would only mean a higher percentage of anglos but it wouldn't mean less French-speakers"
    "As I've said, we didn't need laws to continue speaking French because we've been speaking it for centuries."

    This is a huge contradiction unfortunately. Why do you have language laws if you believe you don't need them? The rest of the country certainly haven't imposed them on you.
    Also, you (and any reasonable person) may believe that the population itself will preserve french in this province, however politicians who support the separatist cause usually make claims about how french is threatened by the evil allophone/anglophone community. So which is, make up your mind.
    Is your language threatened to the point that you need to make laws to protect it, and isolate yourself from any other cultures around you, Pierre Curzi style?
    Or is it safe, like you claim?


    "I live near Montréal and as soon as one leaves that area it becomes obvious ALL the regions are pretty much the same language-wise so stop making fun of remote regions all the time because you don't need to drive for hours to escape multicultural Montréal."

    I don't even know what you were trying to say.. I'm from montreal, however for several years now I've lived in a uniquely french area, far enough from montreal. I have seen the differences between montreal and other regions for myself.


    "I don't want French to take over the world, I just don't want it to disappear here. You spoke of different languages in other places well that's my point: why should this part of the world right here become English-speaking? Wouldn't that mean less diversity in the world?"

    Well I don't want french quebec to disappear either, it's a very important part of our culture. I think that we have enough of a culture to sustain it, without needing language laws and so on.
    But hey, you were *just* saying that french is safe, and it'll never disappear, and so on..
    So which is?? Is it safe, or are you worried??


    "Which is what some people here want: English only. But of course, I'm the nazi."

    You really don't understand. NOBODY said "let's replace french with english in quebec" Extremist quebec francophones have (and still do regularly) said that they'd like to remove all the english from this province; in fact, there are laws and government organizations to help with that cause. You guys are the ones saying "french only".

    "Don't give up, Johnny! You'll win over those evil Francophones! How dare they even still be here! How dare they even speak their language which was spoken before we even arrived!"

    Again, this is pretty amazing. You people make laws to limit other cultures and languages, and then you accuse others of trying to do the same to your culture and language.
    If you don't have any valid arguments, perhaps you just shouldn't talk.

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  30. @ anom 8:56

    Bang on the mark.

    If the french language is secure why the h*ll do
    they need Bill 101 and the language police.

    Contrary to the other commentator I believe the Quebecois hard liners are very concerned about assimilation. Otherwise, they would not need the laws as composed by good old Camille Lauren.

    If not, then this is outright discrimination against he anglo minority.

    As they say, you can't suck and blow at the same time.

    Just the way I see it.

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    ReplyDelete